1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Imagine meeting your kids from a past life. All right, 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen fifties. As a toddler, you have vivid 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: memories of what is clearly this other life. You remember 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: where you lived as a single mom, the village, the shops, 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: your house. Most of all, you've remember your eight children 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: and the guilt you felt when you died while they 7 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: were still young. Later in life, you find the village, 8 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: the house, the children, now elderly, and most of them 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: come to believe you are their mother reincarnated. I'm Patty Steele. 10 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: A mother's devotion has no boundaries. But do you believe 11 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: that's next on the backstory? The backstory is back. Has 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: a memory ever kind of itched at your brain, one 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: where you couldn't quite recall all the details, but it 14 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: kept digging at you, and it keeps coming back and 15 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: getting more vivid. This is what happened at Jenny Cockell 16 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: for pretty much as long as she could remember. Jenny 17 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: was born in the English countryside in nineteen fifty three. Now, 18 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: as a very little girl, she had memories and dreams 19 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: of another life. She saw herself as a poor, working 20 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: class woman in Ireland, and she believed her name was Mary, 21 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: and that she had eight children before dying when she 22 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: was just three years old. She actually told her mom 23 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: she was having dreams all the time about Mary's death. 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: Her mother later confirmed all that. As she got older, 25 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: she remembered the deathbed events more clearly and told her 26 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: mother she felt really, really guilty that she had abandoned 27 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: her children. She also remembered what she experienced as she died, 28 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: said that she had watched the scene in the hospital 29 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: from what felt like about ten feet above near the ceiling, 30 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: with nurses and priests hovering around. She said, then suddenly 31 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: she felt like she was being sucked backwards into a 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: brightly lit space, and she got the feeling that there 33 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: were other spirits around her. Jenny's other memories of Mary's life, 34 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: I've included a vivid picture in her mind of the 35 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: family's cottage, a single story building made of light colored 36 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: stone with a solid wooden door and a really sagging 37 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: slate roof. The house sat opposite a stream and was 38 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: the first in a line of several small cottages on 39 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: her street. She knew the layout of the house and 40 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: how the old fashioned, kind of odd kitchen functioned. She 41 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: knew the layout of the vegetable garden she'd planted, and 42 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: she remembered trapping animals for food with the help of 43 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: her children. Now, as a child, Jenny was able to 44 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: draw a map of the town, though she couldn't remember 45 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: the town's name. She remembered the markets, her church, and 46 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: the streets, as well as a train station and a 47 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: dock that went into some body of water. She remembered 48 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: standing on the dock waiting for a boat, but she 49 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: didn't really know why. Later on in school, she studied 50 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: a map of Ireland and felt drawn to a town 51 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: called Malahide. Now, Interestingly, while Jenny remembered exact bactly what 52 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: Mary wore most of the time, she had no memory 53 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: of what she looked like, but she did remember loving trains. Now, 54 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: as far as her husband went, she had very few 55 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: memories of him, except that he wasn't a loving person 56 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: and he was rarely at home. But she vividly remembered 57 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: what her children looked like and even their personalities. In fact, 58 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: when Jenny was six, she chose a doll with blonde 59 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: hair and blue eyes. She named her Elizabeth, which it 60 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: turned out was the name of Mary's youngest child and 61 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: the only one with blonde hair and blue eyes. Now 62 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: it's nineteen eighty eight, Jenny is thirty five years old. 63 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: She decides she's going to undergo regression hypnosis sessions to 64 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: try to find out more details of what she believed 65 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: was this past life. Dated day memories of her life 66 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: and her children did come to her, but she still 67 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: had trouble locking down names that might have helped her 68 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: find her passed a little more easily fly In nineteen 69 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: eighty nine, she visits Malahide and everything that she'd put 70 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: down on the map she'd drawn years before was in place, 71 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: said Jenny. She knew the streets and the church. She said, 72 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: I just felt like this tremendous sense of relief. There 73 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: was a rundown house she couldn't see behind a wall, 74 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: but a local landlord told her a woman named Mary 75 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: Sutton with a lot of kids had lived there in 76 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties but had died young. He said. After 77 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: her death, the children had been sent to orphanages. All 78 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: the pieces were now coming together. Finally, in nineteen ninety one, 79 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: Jenny met with Mary's oldest child, Sonny. She told him 80 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: her memories and he confirmed everything from the sagging roof 81 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: on the cottage, the layout of the rooms, the odds 82 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: stove in their old kitchen, even what she grew in 83 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: the vegetable patch. He said she nailed the looks and 84 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: personalities of all the children, and what clothing Mary had 85 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: worn pretty much much regularly, and he was shocked by 86 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: the accuracy of her memories of certain events. He told 87 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: her she'd wait on the dock for him when he 88 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: was a teenager coming home from his job as a 89 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: caddie on a nearby island. He gave her details of 90 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: Mary Sutton's life. She was born in eighteen ninety five 91 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: and her father was a train station master, which explained 92 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: her interest in trains. She married John Sutton and had 93 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 1: four boys and four girls. The family lived just on 94 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: the edge of the village of Malahide, and eventually her 95 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: husband became a really violent alcoholic, increasingly abusive and also absent. 96 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: She managed to feed the children on homegrown vegetables and 97 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: she trapped animals from meat. Then, in nineteen thirty two, 98 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: Mary Sutton died of pneumonia and a blood infection. She 99 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: was just thirty six years old. Eventually, Jenny met all 100 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: the surviving children, The oldest son totally believed Jenny's memories 101 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: and actually thought of her as his mother reborn among 102 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: the other children, some believed, others were skeptical. Now, in 103 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: the aftermath of all this, she actually became a pediatrist. 104 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: Jenny has written books, She's made public appearances, and of 105 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: course there are plenty of people who don't really trust 106 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: her and are skeptical of her story, and there are 107 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: many many who believe her. So the question is, if 108 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: we believe what Jenny remembered of Mary Sutton's life, which 109 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: Mary's children confirmed, where does that lead us. Jenny seems 110 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: trustworthy in her story matches the family's memories, But if 111 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: we accept that Mary Sutton really was reincarnated as Jenny Coquel, 112 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: doesn't that change everything we take for granted about birth, 113 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: life and death. So do you believe that we really 114 00:06:53,040 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: have passed and maybe even future lives? I hope you're 115 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: enjoying the backstory with Patty Steele, and I really hope 116 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: you'll subscribe. Also, if you have a story you'd like 117 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: me to look into and share, just DM me on 118 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: Facebook at Patty Steele or on Instagram at real Patty Steele. 119 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: I'm Patty Steele. The Backstories a production of iHeartMedia, Premiere Networks, 120 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: the Elvis Duran Group, and Steel Trap Productions. Our producer 121 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: is Doug Fraser. Our writer Jake Kushner. We have new 122 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: episodes every Tuesday and Friday. Feel free to reach out 123 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: to me with comments and even story suggestions on Instagram 124 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: at Real Patty Steele and on Facebook at Patty Steele. 125 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Backstory with Patty Steele. The 126 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: pieces of history you didn't know you needed to know.