Speaker 1: The previous season when they lost one hundred and one games.
Speaker 1: People ask me, Okay, what's gonna happen next year? And
Speaker 1: I would say, it's not gonna get any worse. It can't,
Speaker 1: And sure enough it did.
Speaker 2: Here we go, all right, let's let's get all the
Speaker 2: funny business out of the way here first, because then
Speaker 2: we're gonna try and get serious for like five ten
Speaker 2: minutes with Chuck Garfin are for friend from the Chicago
Speaker 2: Sports Network shop, Great to see you. How are you?
Speaker 2: Do you have a prop for a j.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 3: One of a few copies left in the world of
Speaker 3: the Hawk us.
Speaker 1: I'm I am transfixed by this. I cannot stop reading
Speaker 1: about Hawk Harrelson. All right now, I'm at the point
Speaker 1: where he's talking about how he arm wrestled a guy
Speaker 1: who was six foot nine and beat him. It was
Speaker 1: in Brunswick, New Jersey.
Speaker 3: Yeah, real life for us.
Speaker 1: Go look at this man.
Speaker 3: What Scott looks like in the offseason.
Speaker 4: Scott Scott has said it you should talk about that book,
Speaker 4: and he said he would. He said Knerico would pull
Speaker 4: out a pull the book out in a rain delay
Speaker 4: and he would read from it. Is that true? He
Speaker 4: would read just like an outlandish story from the book.
Speaker 3: He would just open it to any page. It was
Speaker 3: like the Bible. You can open it to any page
Speaker 3: and find a great story. Now, were they all true?
Speaker 3: I don't really know, but they were made for a
Speaker 3: great book. And listen to someone that's own Hawks since
Speaker 3: he was in high school and he still lives around
Speaker 3: the corner from me, I can't argue with him. But
Speaker 3: he also dressed great, smelled great, and you know, revolutionary
Speaker 3: did a lot of cool things.
Speaker 1: How many players do you know put their nickname on
Speaker 1: the back of their jersey just as Hawk.
Speaker 2: That is cool. He is the definition of a renaissance
Speaker 2: man to me, Yeah, got the story. You're right, You're right.
Speaker 3: I gotta ask before we dig in here. I do
Speaker 3: have to ask, are you with the Chicago Sports Network?
Speaker 3: I am oh, I didn't know if you Ozzie automatically
Speaker 3: got transferred over. Because I will admit this, and I
Speaker 3: talked about this this weekend with Scott and the people.
Speaker 3: We went out to dinner Friday night, Mark and I said,
Speaker 3: I don't care how the White Sox do, but watching
Speaker 3: you and Ozzy after they lose every game is must
Speaker 3: watch TV. I would stay up and watch it, just
Speaker 3: so I could see what kind of antics that you
Speaker 3: and Ozzie would pull off. And you, I mean, your
Speaker 3: hair looks great because it was gray. So the off
Speaker 3: season has done you well, Chuck. So it's getting ready
Speaker 3: to start up here in a couple of weeks. But
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, like your antics with you, and I
Speaker 3: know when you know Frank would be on, he wouldn't
Speaker 3: get into as much. I love pods, but you know,
Speaker 3: Ozzy's just a different level of ridiculousness. So between the
Speaker 3: two of you guys, watching you guys every night was
Speaker 3: worth it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a great season for the show. Unfortunately
Speaker 1: it was the worst season in modern baseball history. I
Speaker 1: did have a procedure in the off season. I removed
Speaker 1: every single brain cell in my brain from what happened
Speaker 1: last season. So if you asked me anything about the
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty one losses, I have magically forgotten
Speaker 1: them all.
Speaker 2: Oh you got the Men in Black? That little clicker
Speaker 2: that yeah, kids, look it up. It's a little clicker.
Speaker 2: It just makes you forget everything. And they just put
Speaker 2: the time period in. Okay, so we're gonna relive some
Speaker 2: of that magic and re educate you. So let's hit
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty five storylines for the White Sox. Homework
Speaker 2: is four storylines. Number one. It can't get worse, question mark, right,
Speaker 2: So we'll go over what twenty twenty five looks like
Speaker 2: and if there's going to be a Luis Robert audition,
Speaker 2: and then trade around the deadline, what about the five
Speaker 2: year plan and some of the prospects like Colson Montgomery,
Speaker 2: No Schultz and new edition Teal and then the veteran
Speaker 2: mercenaries that were signed to this offseason like Josh Rojas,
Speaker 2: Mike Takman, and Martine Perez. So I'll go first, nice
Speaker 2: and simple, Chuck, they were really bad last year, worst team,
Speaker 2: Just to re educate you, of all time in terms
Speaker 2: of the record. They traded away their ace, Garrett Crochet.
Speaker 2: Is it possible that they could be worse in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five?
Speaker 1: All right? So at the end of the previous season
Speaker 1: when they lost one hundred and one games, people ask me, Okay,
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen next year? And I would say it's
Speaker 1: not gonna get any worse. It can't, and sure enough
Speaker 1: it did. But as someone and it's funny, how all
Speaker 1: these memories are now coming back to me. I guess
Speaker 1: the surgery didn't work. As someone who watched every single
Speaker 1: game last year, I can tell you it will not
Speaker 1: be worse. And there are many reasons why. And you
Speaker 1: know they get rid of Crochet and you think, how
Speaker 1: can they be better without Garrett Crochet? Well you look
Speaker 1: into it all right. The second half of the season,
Speaker 1: the White Sox were limiting his innings. He was going
Speaker 1: three innings four innings at a time or less. And
Speaker 1: when you do that, that means you have to use
Speaker 1: your bullpen for the final five to six innings. Every
Speaker 1: time that Garrett Crochet pitched, that's not good for your
Speaker 1: bullpen that day or the next day. So even though
Speaker 1: it was great to have Gerrit Crochet on your team
Speaker 1: in the second half, he went zero to six and
Speaker 1: they were not really in a position to succeed in
Speaker 1: those starts the entire second half of the season. And
Speaker 1: what were they doing. They're trying to market him so
Speaker 1: they'd be able to trade him, and I think that
Speaker 1: was a good trade for the White Sox. They lost
Speaker 1: fifty one games by two runs or less. They were
Speaker 1: in a lot of games with the worst offense I've
Speaker 1: ever seen, certainly with the White Sox and a bullpen
Speaker 1: that really struggled and was gassed and using a lot
Speaker 1: of young guys. This was not a team that was
Speaker 1: just absolutely defeated. They did all they could, but it
Speaker 1: was one of these storms or imperfect storms where everything
Speaker 1: went against them. They're not gonna lose one hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty one games. You heard it right here. I'm saying
Speaker 1: it on camera to the world. And if they lose
Speaker 1: one hundred and win one games or more, you can
Speaker 1: play this from here to eternity and I will eat
Speaker 1: my words.
Speaker 3: Chuck Garfinkel, always the forever optimist with the White Sox,
Speaker 3: but let me ask you this and this same topic.
Speaker 3: They're not really nice. They could lose one hundred and
Speaker 3: ten games and there's still eleven games better. So everyone's
Speaker 3: gonna be like, man wanted improvement. We only lost one
Speaker 3: hundred and ten games. So the better question is how
Speaker 3: big of improvement is the jump? But we're gonna get
Speaker 3: to that, okay, because Cratz is that's the five year
Speaker 3: plan thing. But I want to know about lou Bob Luis.
Speaker 3: Robert Jr. Has all the ability in the world. Two
Speaker 3: years ago was incredible. Last year banged up, it never
Speaker 3: really got going, had an awful year. There was a
Speaker 3: lot of things that happened with him. Can he bounce
Speaker 3: back and can he gets shipped to a contender, possibly
Speaker 3: in the middle of the season and get back More
Speaker 3: suspects for this five year edition plan that Chris gets
Speaker 3: in the front office has.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's five years. Are you putting
Speaker 1: five years on this?
Speaker 3: It's always five year plan. It's a five year plan.
Speaker 3: It's a five year plan. So you know we're in
Speaker 3: the seventh rebuild in the last six years. Check what
Speaker 3: I mean? What do you want for me?
Speaker 1: All right? So to answer your question about Luis Robert Junior,
Speaker 1: can he become the player he was? Yes? Will he?
Speaker 1: I can't answer that he had a one to thirty
Speaker 1: OPS plus in twenty twenty three and went down to
Speaker 1: eighty seven. Your best player, there's another reason why you
Speaker 1: lose one hundred and twenty one games when your best player,
Speaker 1: first off, loses I don't know. He was missed most
Speaker 1: of the first half of an injury and then comes
Speaker 1: back and is a subpar player in the eighty seven
Speaker 1: ops plus, batting first, second, and third, and you're going
Speaker 1: through that line of time and time and time again,
Speaker 1: and you're not getting the kind of production that you
Speaker 1: need in OBP under three hundred, you're gonna lose a
Speaker 1: lot of games. And so I really hope he can
Speaker 1: turn it around. He sure certainly can. And if he does, yeah,
Speaker 1: there'll be teams, they'll be interested. Are there teams interested?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 1: You know at the deadline winter meetings Chris gets said
Speaker 1: there there were teams interested. I'm sure there are teams
Speaker 1: interested in them. But will they give the White Sox
Speaker 1: what they feel like they need for him? If he
Speaker 1: has a comeback first half of the season, then yeah,
Speaker 1: he will be traded. I'm putting at fifty to fifty.
Speaker 1: How can you say you can rely on Luis Robert
Speaker 1: Junior to have a comeback season or half of the
Speaker 1: year that we hope that he can do when he
Speaker 1: hasn't consistently shown it either with his results on the
Speaker 1: field or staying healthy. It's a mixed bag. I'd love
Speaker 1: to see it. I know it's all in there. He's
Speaker 1: by far their best player, and they keep him and
Speaker 1: they don't trade him before opening day, and he has
Speaker 1: a big first half, which I know he can do.
Speaker 1: They'll get a lot for him.
Speaker 4: We saw your soul get hurt a little bit when
Speaker 4: AJ said the five year plan.
Speaker 3: You're like five years? We said, have four more.
Speaker 4: I still got deal with this, but it is going
Speaker 4: to be year two already. Okay, job like year two
Speaker 4: of this in the tanking program, tanking formula, what do
Speaker 4: we need to track, what do we need to follow
Speaker 4: with Colson Montgomery, with Noah Shultz, with Kyle Teel. What
Speaker 4: can we expect as White Sox fans that we are
Speaker 4: here at FT.
Speaker 1: Well, Fortunately I do have experience covering a White Sox rebuild.
Speaker 1: I covered the last one, and I saw how that
Speaker 1: actually quickly turned around. The rebuild started in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: and by well actually believing more, it was the twenty
Speaker 1: seventeen season and then that's really when it. But it
Speaker 1: didn't fully go through until twenty eighteen. And in twenty
Speaker 1: nineteen you're like, okay, we see where this is going.
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty they were a really good team. Unfortunately
Speaker 1: with the pandemic, they didn't make it into the postseason.
Speaker 1: What I'm looking for this year is not so much wins.
Speaker 1: You want to see the wins, but you want to
Speaker 1: see the guys who are a part of their future
Speaker 1: having good seasons. And you're gonna see six or seven
Speaker 1: of the Socks top prospects be called up to the
Speaker 1: major leagues. I believe many, if not all, of them
Speaker 1: will be up here, and so for Socks fans, you're
Speaker 1: gonna see the future on the field and we'll see
Speaker 1: how they do. But I think that's really what you
Speaker 1: have to look at. How many years is it going
Speaker 1: to take? I don't know. The payroll is really really
Speaker 1: low by design, and i'd like to think once they
Speaker 1: know what they have, who they have, and when they
Speaker 1: know what they don't have, they'll go out and spend
Speaker 1: the money. But you don't do it right now because
Speaker 1: you're still trying to figure that out. What prospects are
Speaker 1: gonna be big? And I'm yeah, Colson Montgomery, Noah Schultz,
Speaker 1: Kyle Teel, Hagen Smith, etc. They're gonna be on the
Speaker 1: major league team this year and I'm excited to watch them.
Speaker 3: Chuck. This leads into the last storyline, Veteran Mercenaries that
Speaker 3: we're calling it. Mike Talkman Martin Perez, who I love,
Speaker 3: He's a X seaman, of mind, Josh Rojas, some of
Speaker 3: these Austin Hayes, not Austin Haes uh ge sorry later
Speaker 3: Slater as Hayes t today, so he got me off
Speaker 3: of Austin Slater. Why go sign these guys other than
Speaker 3: trade pieces? Like, what does it mean for them? Because
Speaker 3: why not have Colson Montgomery play every day? Why not?
Speaker 3: You know, Bradon Montgomery's obviously a little bit younger, but
Speaker 3: why not have Kyle Teel and Corey Lee be or catchers?
Speaker 3: Why why not let another starting pitcher instead of Martin Proz.
Speaker 3: I know you need some veteran guys around, but what
Speaker 3: is the White Sox plan for these veteran guys? Is
Speaker 3: it to have them play, see how they do, and
Speaker 3: then possibly trade them and get more pieces and then
Speaker 3: have the young guys come up. Or are they really
Speaker 3: counting on these guys to lead them to a better season,
Speaker 3: which again, in the history of baseball, there's never been
Speaker 3: a worse season, so they got to be better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the answer to your question is almost
Speaker 1: everything that you just said, which is they bring these
Speaker 1: guys in to help, you know, solidify the team, bring
Speaker 1: some veterans into this situation and other than the catcher situation.
Speaker 1: I could see why, well, you know, why don't you
Speaker 1: have Kyle Teel give them a runway to maybe make
Speaker 1: the team out of spring training. I just think like
Speaker 1: what they're having behind the plate works for now, but
Speaker 1: they want to just make sure Kyle Teal and Edgar
Speaker 1: Carrow are ready and I think you'll see them in
Speaker 1: the major leagues at some point. But they didn't want
Speaker 1: to just rely on all their prospects right out of
Speaker 1: the gate when you're not one hundred percent sure if
Speaker 1: they'll be ready. Mike Tauchman, you know, here's what I
Speaker 1: see with a lot of guys. They brought in veterans,
Speaker 1: veteran leadership, defense, Martin Perez, one of the best defensive
Speaker 1: pitchers in the game, OBP, a lot of like Talkman Slater,
Speaker 1: and I think what they're doing, they're just they're putting
Speaker 1: some band aids certainly on this team for the first half,
Speaker 1: so it gives them a chance to win games. So
Speaker 1: you're not just relying totally on prospects. I think there's
Speaker 1: a good balance here and if they have good first halfs,
Speaker 1: then they're traded they get some more prospects. These are
Speaker 1: one year deals. They're payroll sixty six million dollars or
Speaker 1: something like that, So I mean, if you didn't even
Speaker 1: use these guys, their payroll would be sixty million dollars.
Speaker 1: I see nothing wrong with these one year deals, these mercenaries.
Speaker 1: I think they need some mercenaries on this roster, and
Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with what they're doing so far.
Speaker 2: I'm actually going to take the other side of what
Speaker 2: AJ's talking about and say, why didn't they do more
Speaker 2: of this in the offseason. There are rules to curb
Speaker 2: how you can rebuild these days, right, the White Sox
Speaker 2: should have the number one pick coming up? What pick
Speaker 2: do they have?
Speaker 1: Oh, you're talking about next season? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Ten, they have ten, because you can't do that. If
Speaker 2: you're a team like them in a bigger market, you know,
Speaker 2: you get punished for being bad in consecutive seasons. So
Speaker 2: my case here is very simple, because it's a team
Speaker 2: in the league that did this. How come the White
Speaker 2: Sox are at sixty six mill or whatever and not
Speaker 2: at least closer to one hundred plus, which they can
Speaker 2: easily handle so that they can do a signing like
Speaker 2: a Raldist Chapman from a couple of years ago go,
Speaker 2: which the Royals did for like ten million bucks and
Speaker 2: turned him into Cole Reagan's. It is much harder to
Speaker 2: rebuild now. So why didn't we see them involved for
Speaker 2: some of these one year contracts? This is where they
Speaker 2: can play catchup so much quicker. They could have done
Speaker 2: three or four of these in like the five to
Speaker 2: fifteen million dollar range on these one year contracts, especially pitching, right,
Speaker 2: you can never have enough pitching. Get a few good starters,
Speaker 2: get a reliever or two, and then flip them at
Speaker 2: the deadline.
Speaker 1: Good question. I don't have the answer to that one.
Speaker 1: You're right, that's another way they could have gone about
Speaker 1: doing it, spending more money. What's crazy and what might
Speaker 1: have something to do with why they did this? It's
Speaker 1: just me theorizing this. Who had the highest payroll in
Speaker 1: the American League Central last year, and if not first,
Speaker 1: they were definitely right behind the first place team, the
Speaker 1: White Sox. So they had one hundred and twenty seven
Speaker 1: something million dollar payroll and they had the worst record
Speaker 1: in baseball. But in modern baseball history, that's not going
Speaker 1: to look good on the bottom line, and they clearly
Speaker 1: are not trying to win the division. This year. So
Speaker 1: the way they're going about doing it, let's give a
Speaker 1: lot of opportunities to the young guys, and let's surround
Speaker 1: them with one year guys who can help mold them.
Speaker 1: And these guys can have comeback seasons. And I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of guys so, like you know, Austin Slater,
Speaker 1: Mike Takman actually had a pretty good year with the Cubs.
Speaker 1: I was surprised he was available, but I understand why
Speaker 1: he was available. I just think that this was what
Speaker 1: they decided to do, the route they decided to take.
Speaker 1: But I see it from both sides.
Speaker 3: Okay, gosh, you're such an optimist. You are just I
Speaker 3: mean you are.
Speaker 1: You know what you are.
Speaker 3: You're a fan at socks Fest this past weekend, Chuck.
Speaker 3: Just you were with fans, sitting there in the middle
Speaker 3: of the socks Fest, cheering on everybody. Weren't you?
Speaker 1: Oh, were talking to me. I'm sorry, Aja, I was
Speaker 1: reading the Hawk book.
Speaker 3: I am.
Speaker 1: You know what I am. I'm an optimist slash realist.
Speaker 1: I'm not a pass in that.
Speaker 3: I'm not as either. I want them to do good.
Speaker 3: I want the White Sox to do well. Are they
Speaker 3: gonna be good? This year, though, I'm a realist. No
Speaker 3: they're gonna snap.
Speaker 1: I'm not, and I'm not saying they're gonna be good.
Speaker 1: I think the goal for this team should be, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's try to lose less than one hundred games. I
Speaker 1: mean that would be a humu.
Speaker 3: That'd be the biggest jump of any team in baseball
Speaker 3: if they did not leave one hundred games.
Speaker 1: I do think it's possible because watching how this team
Speaker 1: lost so many games, how they happened. This last year's
Speaker 1: team was a one hundred lost team. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: in theory, they should have lost anywhere between one hundred
Speaker 1: and one hundred and ten. There is no reason why
Speaker 1: they lost. They should have lost one hundred twenty one,
Speaker 1: and yet it happened. So I think just what I like,
Speaker 1: I mentioned all the craziness. I haven't even gotten into
Speaker 1: all the craziness. I mean, they lost twenty three games
Speaker 1: when leading after six, they were in position to win
Speaker 1: so many games. And if it wasn't the bullpen, it
Speaker 1: it was the offense. It was craziness. It was happening
Speaker 1: just they just had seemingly everything against them. I am
Speaker 1: not making excuses for them. I'm just saying how it transpired.
Speaker 1: This team can lose ninety nine games. I hope it's
Speaker 1: something in the double digits, not triple digits, but I
Speaker 1: would not be shocked if it was over one hundred
Speaker 1: because there's just a lot of guys you're relying on
Speaker 1: who you know, are are coming up to the major
Speaker 1: leagues or trying to find themselves. And but I see
Speaker 1: two different scenarios. I see them losing between one hundred
Speaker 1: and one hundred and ten and I see them losing
Speaker 1: between ninety and one hundred.
Speaker 2: The best way to go from bad to really freaking bad.
Speaker 2: It's not that much of a bullpen. Could have signed
Speaker 2: some veteran relievers to flip at the headline, So we'll
Speaker 2: see what opens.
Speaker 1: But anyway, what they've got, maybe there are some relievers
Speaker 1: who they feel good about. I clearly they do. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying, But I think maybe that's
Speaker 1: coming in and.
Speaker 3: Didn't get better. Their bullpen didn't get better from last year.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying it get proved.
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't know who's close.
Speaker 3: I'm looking at the names. I mean, I'm just saying
Speaker 3: a lot of these guys were there last year, and
Speaker 3: it didn't wasn't very well. He got a competition in
Speaker 3: camp a lot. That's great. That's a lot of competition.
Speaker 3: They want to I want to see what they have
Speaker 3: in the bullpen, but they don't want to see what
Speaker 3: they have in position players.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're an indie ball pitcher and you think
Speaker 2: you've got to show up to Glendale, Arizona and see
Speaker 2: what happened.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's why he's that's that.
Speaker 2: Yeah's been a great sport. You got, Chuck. We got
Speaker 2: to remember these times so in a few years you
Speaker 2: can come back and be like, hey, remember when you
Speaker 2: just picked on me, And now you know, Ozzie and
Speaker 2: I can actually have a good time here on the
Speaker 2: postgame show.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But you know what's funny is that when they
Speaker 1: went through the last rebuild, what do they spend a
Speaker 1: lot of money on and didn't work?
Speaker 3: Bull bullpen?
Speaker 2: Bullpen? That's true.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 1: I I see, like, you know, you could spend a
Speaker 1: whole lot of money on the bullpen. Hey, look at
Speaker 1: this guy was great last year. Oh no, it's twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five. We got this crappy version of him. No,
Speaker 1: let's go with an unproven guy. Maybe he's got something
Speaker 1: that we can use that's cheaper. He's already in our system.
Speaker 1: We know him more than this guy who was playing
Speaker 1: for Texas or Atlanta, whoever it might be. So I
Speaker 1: know you want some definitive hot takes from me, but
Speaker 1: I am blending optimism and realism with you. That's what
Speaker 1: you're gonna get, and you're gonna get stories.
Speaker 2: And brevity.
Speaker 3: Chuck, Well, you don't want hot takes from you. We
Speaker 3: want realism, and you give it to us. That's why
Speaker 3: you're our Chuck. And Kratz said it best. He wants
Speaker 3: him to lose a lot of games just so we
Speaker 3: can witness the drama with you and Ausie. That's it,
Speaker 3: That's really it. I didn't say that, Kratz said it.
Speaker 3: I didn't say that I want him to win every game.
Speaker 3: I wanted to go one hundred and sixty two and.
Speaker 1: Well, it is true that many of our best postgame
Speaker 1: shows do come after losses, but I do not want that.
Speaker 1: I want as many wins is humanly possible for the
Speaker 1: White Sox. I'd rather talk about a win than a loss.
Speaker 1: The easiest thing to do on a postgame show is
Speaker 1: talk about a game that ended in a win. Losses
Speaker 1: are tough, but I've got Ozzie there and we have
Speaker 1: a good time doing it. We never make it personal ever.
Speaker 1: We just tell you, tell like it is, tell you
Speaker 1: what just happened and why it happened.
Speaker 3: And we'll be watching.
Speaker 2: Yes, we will be watching, don't worry, and we'll be
Speaker 2: talking about it here, Chuck, thank you, good to see it.
Speaker 1: Great seeing you guys, even Aj