WEBVTT - The Afghanistan Papers:  Craig Whitlock

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<v Speaker 1>The Armstrong and Jetty Show. Well, we've been saying all

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<v Speaker 1>day long that the wrong story is going to get

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<v Speaker 1>most of the headlines. That is impeachment and or the

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<v Speaker 1>Inspector General report coming out. The biggest story in America

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<v Speaker 1>should be the Afghanistan papers that are out in the

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<v Speaker 1>Washington Post. US officials misled public about Afghan war. Confidential

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<v Speaker 1>documents reveal for eighteen years we were misled or lied to, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>which I'm not surprised by, but I'm still very angry about.

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<v Speaker 1>Craig Whitlock is an investigative reporter for the Washington Post,

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<v Speaker 1>and we are very grateful that Craig carved us out

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of minutes today on the day of the

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<v Speaker 1>release of this blockbuster story. Craig, how are you, sir?

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<v Speaker 1>Very good? Thanks for having me. What's our pleasure? I'm

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<v Speaker 1>I'm so mad reading through this um we we had

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<v Speaker 1>been saying on the air for years, what are we

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<v Speaker 1>trying to ACCOMPLI It doesn't look to me like we

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<v Speaker 1>have a goal. It seems to me like if we

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<v Speaker 1>left today would be the same result as if we

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<v Speaker 1>left five years from a how or five years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>It turns out behind the scenes, they were saying the

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<v Speaker 1>same sorts of things, right, that's right. I mean those

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<v Speaker 1>are pretty basic questions, and you think people in position

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<v Speaker 1>of power would have been asking them, and it turns

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<v Speaker 1>out they were, and they didn't have very good answers.

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<v Speaker 1>And this has been going on for many, many years.

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<v Speaker 1>They didn't know why we were there, how it would end,

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<v Speaker 1>or how would we would get out. How did you

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<v Speaker 1>get this information? So this started over three years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm I'm a slow reporter, I guess, but we we

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<v Speaker 1>filed freedom information at requests with an obscure government agency

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<v Speaker 1>called the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan. We'd heard they

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<v Speaker 1>had done an interview with Michael Flynn, the retired army general.

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<v Speaker 1>This was back in ten and Flynn was in the news,

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<v Speaker 1>of course for a support of Trump during the presidential campaign.

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<v Speaker 1>But we had heard Flynn had given this long, very

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<v Speaker 1>blunt interview about Afghanistan and the were there. So we've

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<v Speaker 1>put in a public records request and uh, we thought

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<v Speaker 1>we were going to get it, and we had to

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<v Speaker 1>file a lawsuit and this agency really dragged its feet

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<v Speaker 1>for three years. It turned out that in addition to

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<v Speaker 1>the Flynn interview, there were hundreds more, and so we

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<v Speaker 1>had to sue and file more freem Information Act requests

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<v Speaker 1>for those two and it just it took a long

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<v Speaker 1>time to pry them lose out of the government. They

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<v Speaker 1>didn't want to cough them up. Well, it's encouraging in

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<v Speaker 1>a way, Craig, that those documents exist at all. There

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<v Speaker 1>seemed to have been a serious effort to understand what

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<v Speaker 1>our strategies are, how they're working, and whether they're likely

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<v Speaker 1>to bear fruit. It's just that once many of those answers,

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<v Speaker 1>or preliminary answers were learned, they were buried, which is frightening. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's right. And the context of this, this was a

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<v Speaker 1>special project that this Inspector General f Afghanistan had started.

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<v Speaker 1>And the timing is important because everybody thought the war

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<v Speaker 1>was coming to an end, right Obama had said I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna pull all you troops out by the end of

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<v Speaker 1>my presidency. Uh, and that's where people thought things were going.

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<v Speaker 1>We were drawing down the number of troops there. So

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<v Speaker 1>they thought they'd do this project and interview hundreds of

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<v Speaker 1>people to see what went wrong in Afghanistan, so that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, in the future, if we ever got stuck

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<v Speaker 1>in another war, we wouldn't repeat the mistakes. But of

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<v Speaker 1>course it turned out we we didn't leave Afghanistan, and

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<v Speaker 1>Obama left several thousand troops there and Trump sent several

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<v Speaker 1>thousand more and the war is still going on. So

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<v Speaker 1>these were these were lessons that were not learned, and

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<v Speaker 1>subsequently the government was trying very hard to to keep

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<v Speaker 1>them suppressed. As you pointed out, do you get any

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<v Speaker 1>sense that there was um much difference in the attitudes

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<v Speaker 1>behind the scenes in the Obama administration versus the Bush administration,

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<v Speaker 1>or did it just once you got at the level

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<v Speaker 1>of the military kind of be the same direction of

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<v Speaker 1>let's just keep stumbling along doing our best. I think

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<v Speaker 1>both of them were trying to to operate the war

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<v Speaker 1>as best they knew. But what was striking is behind

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<v Speaker 1>the scenes, both of them are equally guilty of not

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<v Speaker 1>being forthcoming with the American people about how things were going.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we went back and we separately we got

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<v Speaker 1>these memos that Rumsfeld had written, thousands of them from

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<v Speaker 1>an outfit called the National Security Archive, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>nonprofit group that had sued the Pentagon to get these memos.

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<v Speaker 1>Rumsfeld had written, there's one back in April of two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand two, so six months after the war started, he

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<v Speaker 1>writes a memo to several generals and he says, I

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<v Speaker 1>may be impatient, in fact I know him a bit impatient,

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<v Speaker 1>but we are never going to get the U. S.

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<v Speaker 1>Military out of Afghanistan unless we take care to see

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<v Speaker 1>that there is something going on that will provide the

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<v Speaker 1>stability that will be necessary for us to leave. Then

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<v Speaker 1>he ended it with one word, he said, help exclamation point. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>this is back in two thousand two, well saying we're

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<v Speaker 1>never going to get the troops out. Uh. And and

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<v Speaker 1>that's a guy, you know, nobody was told this back then,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was a Vietnam era guy, so he he

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<v Speaker 1>understood how that momentum happened, that inertia, right. Craig Whitlock

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<v Speaker 1>is on the line of the Washington Post. Craig, it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's disturbing if the generals or the politicians say, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we have x number of this and we

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<v Speaker 1>have pacified this amount of score mileage and therefore it's

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<v Speaker 1>clear we are making progress. I mean, if if if

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<v Speaker 1>their example is not good evidence, that's disturbing. But if

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<v Speaker 1>the evidence itself was faked, up. That's just extra galling in.

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<v Speaker 1>According to your article, down to the lowest level, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the statistics were being faked up, that's right,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, to be honest, I wasn't shocked by that.

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<v Speaker 1>I covered the Pentagon in the West Military for several

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<v Speaker 1>years ro the post, particularly during the Obama administration. For

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<v Speaker 1>that it was a foreign correspondent, and we would get

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<v Speaker 1>told all the time by commanders, uh, you know, that

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<v Speaker 1>they were making progress, and they would couch by saying that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's a tough fight and there's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be setbacks. But they would throw out these statistics all

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<v Speaker 1>the time, and they always they always seem cherry picked,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, one's you know, meant to show a certain

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<v Speaker 1>certain portrait. But to see people admit in these interviews,

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<v Speaker 1>these confidential interviews, that yeah, we we did doctor them up.

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<v Speaker 1>We distorted the statistics. We only pulled the ones that

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<v Speaker 1>made things look good and we buried the others. And

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<v Speaker 1>we funneled these all the way up to the White

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<v Speaker 1>House like that. You know, it's one thing to see

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<v Speaker 1>it in black and white them admit it. Craig a

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<v Speaker 1>thousand apologies. We are up against a hard break but

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<v Speaker 1>this is some some serious, great journalism. It's stuff the

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<v Speaker 1>American people ought to be reading. And uh and we

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<v Speaker 1>thank you not only for the work you did, but

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<v Speaker 1>your time today. Man, thanks, thank you. Take care of