1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Time to go into the vault for an older episode 4 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: of the show. This one originally aired on February eighth, 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. It's part three of our series about thirst. 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Let's jump right in. Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow 8 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, 9 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: and we're back with part three of our series on 10 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: the question of thirst. Now, if you remember, in the 11 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: last episode, Rob we talked about the biology of thirst, 12 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: anticipation of anticipation of the quenching of thirst. Because there's 13 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: this interesting thing where after you drink a glass of 14 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: water when you've been dehydrated, it takes some number of minutes, 15 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: maybe on the order of tens of minutes before that 16 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: water actually gets absorbed through the digestive system and ends 17 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: up in the blood and makes a difference systemically throughout 18 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: the body. And yet you still feel that that thirst 19 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: quinchiness after you have just the first glass of water. 20 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: You're not continuously chugging for ten to twenty minutes at 21 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: least hopefully not. But to start off today, I wanted 22 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: to come back to the question of how it is 23 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: that the body detects, the anticipates the coming changes in 24 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: your blood and your blood osmolality, which again is the 25 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: concentration of dissolved substances like mineral salts in your body's 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: water content, and how it anticipates those changes to provide 27 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: you that delicious feeling of having your thirst quenched by 28 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: a glass of water. Now, in the previous episodes, we 29 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: already talked about a few ways that the mouth in 30 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: the throat might detect the introduction of water into the 31 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: body and sort of sin signals to the brain saying hey, okay, 32 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: you can put the thirst on hold for now, there 33 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: are soon coming changes to the body's hydration levels. And 34 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,119 Speaker 1: one of the ideas we talked about was the possibility 35 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: that temperature plays a role, because maybe there's some evidence 36 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: that the power of water to cool the mouth and 37 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: throat sends quinching signals to the brain. And also there 38 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: was some evidence that rodents were using sour taste receptors 39 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: in the mouth to detect the presence of water. But 40 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: Rob maybeing set me straight on this one. I don't 41 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: think it was clear that triggering the sour taste receptors 42 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: actually led to the quinching of thirst. Rather, it seemed 43 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: to encourage more drinking behavior when the mouse was thirsty. 44 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,399 Speaker 1: Is that right? Yes, that's my understanding of these findings. 45 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: But I was actually reading about a few more studies 46 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: on exactly this question of how thirst quinching happens. What 47 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: is the mechanism that leads to these changes in the 48 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 1: brain that tell you, aha, thou art now quinched. So 49 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: the first thing I wanted to talk about was a 50 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: study that I was reading about a New York Times 51 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: article from twenty eighteen by Verny Greenwood called you get 52 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: thirsty and drink? How does your brain signal you've had enough? 53 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 1: And this is referring to a paper that I think 54 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: came up in passing in the previous episode, but it 55 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: was by Vinnie Augustine at all in Nature in twenty 56 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: eighteen called Hierarchical neural architecture underlying thirst regulation. And this 57 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: research has been looking at exactly this question we just 58 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: brought up, and they confirmed that, of course there is 59 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: a complex of neurons in the brain that appear to 60 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: cease activity after a thirsty mouse drinks water. So there 61 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: are some neurons that are apparently signaling that generating that 62 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: thirst motivation state. But then when a rodent takes some 63 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: water in through the mouth, those rons shut up, they 64 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: go quiet. So this would be the neural mechanism to 65 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: register quenching. But the question is what is the direct 66 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: mechanism that leads to the changes in those neurons. Now, 67 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: this New York Times article summarizes the findings as explained 68 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: by the first author on that paper, Vanite Augustine quote, Intriguingly, 69 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: what these cells are responding to is not the presence 70 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: of water itself, mister Augustine said. The researchers discovered that 71 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: letting a mouse take big gulps of water would spur 72 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: the neurons into action, but giving it water in gel form, 73 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: which had to be chewed before it could be swallowed, 74 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: did not. Neither did providing water in tiny two second 75 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: long SIPs, even when the animals consumed the same total 76 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: amount of water. In fact, giving the mice oil to 77 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: drink had just the same effect on the neurons as 78 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: gulping water. So that last part is a little gross, 79 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: but based on this fine name, uh, it would kind 80 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: of imply that a major mechanism leading these thirst neurons 81 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: to to say, okay, thirst has been quenched would have 82 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: something to do with like muscular movements in the throat, 83 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: the kind of gulping that you do when you're guzzling 84 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: down a bunch of water really fast. But technically maybe 85 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,239 Speaker 1: it doesn't even have to be water, it's just any 86 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: fluid that you're gulping. I mean, as humans, we don't 87 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: I guess, drink a lot of just straight oil, but 88 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: we do drink a lot of things that are that 89 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: are to varying degrees removed from from from you know, 90 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: from from just a neutral water. So this would make sense, right, 91 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: But if you if you hydrate yourself in some other ways, 92 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: so like the examples that you say, consuming water in 93 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: gel form where you can't like gulp it down really 94 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: that still hydrates you, but that apparently does not lead 95 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: to this immediate quinching signal in the brain. Similarly, with 96 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: drinking water in very small isolated SIPs, I guess in 97 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: those cases you would eventually hydrate your self and your 98 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: thirst will eventually go away, but it will be more 99 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: likely that your body has to just become systemically hydrated 100 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: before the thirst goes away. It's not that sudden quinching 101 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: reward feeling. Now, there was an interesting detail offered here 102 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: about reasons that the body might need to have this 103 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: reaction where we turn off thirst very quickly after getting 104 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: a drink, like why not just wait for your blood 105 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: osmolality to reach the ideal level. Well, in previous episodes, 106 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: we talked about one reason for this, which is that 107 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: you know, if you actually did have to wait for 108 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: your body's water content to get all leveled out right 109 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: before your thirst went away, you might you might like 110 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: kill yourself drinking gallons and gallons of water because you 111 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: know over the course of the tens of minutes that 112 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: it takes for this change to take hold. But there's 113 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: another reason, one of the authors of this paper brings up. 114 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: That's in this Greenwood article in the Times quote. Aside 115 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: from the specter of water intoxication, there are good reasons 116 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: to drink only the minimum amount necessary when an animal 117 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: lowers its head to drink, doctor Oka speculated, and that's 118 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: doctor Yukioka. It's in quite a vulnerable position. Quote, if 119 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: you double the time of ingestion, that should double the 120 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: risk of being prey, he said, And I thought that 121 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: was interesting too. I mean, I think it is true 122 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: that in the natural environment, as we brought up in 123 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: the previous episode, going for water is often putting yourself 124 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: in a vulnerable position, you know, maybe exposing yourself from 125 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: hiding or shelter and sort of turning your attention away 126 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: from scanning your surroundings. Yeah. I mean in many cases too, 127 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: they the access point of the water might not provide 128 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: much in the way of cover for smaller animals, and 129 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: then for larger animals there may be you know, bodily 130 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: positions they have to get into to drink that put 131 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: them in a greater state of vulnerability. Like I'm thinking 132 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: of a draft for instance. Though draft, of course is 133 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: already formidable animal U but but still there's a certain 134 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: awkwardness present when it actually has to drink water. Sorry, 135 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: I just started thinking about game or fuel. Um, yeah, 136 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: this is this, says. I have no research to back 137 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: this up. They're just observational material for me. But I 138 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: think everyone knows that I enjoy watching the squirrels, and 139 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: we have a bird bath outside near our feeders, and 140 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: the bird bath is positioned right up against the fence, 141 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: and the squirrels drink from that all the time. But 142 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: I wonder how much I wonder how much of that 143 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: is that they're able to drink from the bird bath 144 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: while essentially remaining in a vertical position attached to the 145 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: to the fence, like they don't have to, you know, 146 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: go across a clearing. They have, I guess, pretty good 147 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: cover for a squirrel. Those squirrels are bold in other 148 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: ways that, you know, make you think that they're they're 149 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: less concerned, or they're or they're in control of the 150 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: situation as far as potential predators go. So if you 151 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: happen to have sitter squirrels and rover squirrels, your bird 152 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: bath is positioned in such a way that even the 153 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: sitter squirrels could could get to it. I guess so. 154 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: But then, yeah, I don't know. I'd be interested to 155 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: hear what anyone else out there has observed with their 156 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: squirrels and drinking water from bird baths and other water sources. 157 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: They seem to like one thing versus the other. I 158 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: don't know. They certainly drink more water than my cat. 159 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: I'll give them that well. Anyway, there was another article 160 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: from the very next year, also in the New York Times, 161 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: also by Greenwood, covering follow up research from some of 162 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: the same scientists. So this was published May thirty first, 163 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, just called the Neurobiology of Thirst, and this 164 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: is summarizing a study published in twenty nineteen in the 165 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: journal Neuron where the authors oh again the first author 166 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: on this one was Vanite Augustine and it was called 167 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: Temporally and spatially distinct thirst satiation Sig and the authors 168 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: here found that the pleasure we get from drinking when 169 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: thirsty is once again not directly related to hydration. It 170 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: is a reward pathway separated by both time and space 171 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: from the body's hydration and osmolality monitoring mechanisms. And one 172 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,839 Speaker 1: of the major findings in this paper is that though 173 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: drinking water is associated with a dopamine release, this is 174 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: a typical signal that the brain is expecting a reward. Right. 175 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: You know, things that you want, you want to get 176 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: and feel good when you get them. That's often that 177 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: involves a dopamine release. But the feeling of reward in 178 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: the brain here is apparently not tied to becoming hydrated 179 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: after being dehydrated, but specifically to the act of drinking 180 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: water through the mouth. So if you're dehydrated and then 181 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: you suddenly receive water through an iv or even via 182 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: a direct injection into the stomach, your thirst will eventually 183 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: go away after your body adjusts to the new fluid levels, 184 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: but you won't get that feeling of reward satisfaction or 185 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: the corresponding dopamine release. Those come specifically from the activity 186 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: of drinking, the gulping of water through the mouth. And 187 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: picking up on this, I was actually looking at one 188 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: more paper that had an interesting finding. I wouldn't have 189 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: mentioned this. Other one was a little earlier. This was 190 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: from twenty sixteen published in Nature called thirst neurons anticipate 191 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: the homeostatic consequences of eating and drinking, And this is 192 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: by Zimmerman at All And this study found, among other things, 193 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: a dual track monitoring system for thirst management. So along 194 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: the lines we've already been talking about. It found that 195 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: if you take mice and you give them some salt 196 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: and make them thirsty, drinking water rapidly inhibits neurons in 197 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: a region of the brain called the subfornical organ or SFO, 198 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: and that leads to thirst quenching. And of course this 199 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: is before there's any notable change in blood osmolality. But 200 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: it also found that if you take these thirsty mice 201 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: and you give them very salty water and the opportunity 202 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: to drink it, they will drink it, and initially they 203 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: will gulp it down and it will inhibit the SFO 204 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: neurons and apparently quench thirst just like the freshwater. But 205 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: the quenching doesn't last for very long, and they write quote, 206 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: this initial decline was reversed after approximately one minute. This 207 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: indicates that the rapid anticipatory response to drinking has at 208 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: least two components, an immediate signal that tracks fluid ingestion 209 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: and a delayed signal that reports on fluid tonicity, possibly 210 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: generated by an esophageal or gastric osmo sensor. So if 211 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: you put all of this together, it seems like you've 212 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: got at least three different time dependent levels of sort 213 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: of the body's quinch watch. So you put them all together, 214 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: and you've got one system that's like, are you gulping fluid? 215 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: If you are, oh, that's very good, very good thou 216 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: art quinched, But then there's a second system on a 217 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: slight delay from that one, roughly one minute of delay 218 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: in mice. It's like, wait a second, what exactly was 219 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: that you were just gulping? Was that oil or was 220 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: that super salty water? You know, what are you trying 221 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: to pull? And if it well, if it was not 222 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: good fresh water, then it will cancel, cancel the quinch 223 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 1: and return the thirst. And then finally I guess there's 224 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: just the direct blood volume in osmolality monitoring, which is 225 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: on a much greater delay than the other two. So, 226 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: first of all, reminder, if anyone else, if anyone's interested 227 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: in the whole drinking saltwater thing, we did a whole 228 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 1: episode on drinking saltwater a while back. You should be 229 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: able to find that in the archives. Not a good 230 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: idea was it was one of the main findings there. 231 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: But the other thing, I think, and we've kind of 232 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: we've kind of touched on this a little bit already, 233 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: but you know, it would be in a steak to 234 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: think of like, Okay, it's just you know, what's drinking water, 235 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: water in water out, you know, even if you you 236 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: then acknowledge, okay, well, you know, the levels have to 237 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: be just right. But it's it's more than that. It's 238 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: not like organisms just one day we're like, hey, there's 239 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: water we can drink that we should use this to 240 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: our advantage. Now, like we are of water. So it's 241 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: like water in am water evolved out of things in water, etc. 242 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: So it's it makes sense that there would be a 243 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: more complex relationship with multiple triggers that you know that 244 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: we're still trying to understand. Yeah, I mean, as we 245 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: said at the very beginning, you you are the direct 246 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: descendant of creatures that long ago lived in the ocean 247 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: and all of your ancestors, just like you brought the 248 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: ocean with you onto land. The ocean is now inside 249 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: your skin. Yes. Oh, and before I wrap up, this 250 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: last study I mentioned also documents interesting evidence for the 251 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: the oral cooling mechanism of thirst quenching that I brought 252 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: up in previous episode. So the authors here say that quote. 253 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: We found that a playing cold but not room temperature 254 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: metal to the oral cavity of a wake thirsty mice 255 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: was sufficient to rapidly inhibit SFO neurons. Thus, temperature dependent 256 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: modulation of SFO neurons may explain the enigmatic connection between 257 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: oral cooling and thirst, including why thirsty rodents will avidly 258 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: lick cold metal, and humans report that sucking on ice 259 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: chips rapidly relieves thirst. That's interesting. I hadn't really thought 260 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: about that with sucking on ice chips though, though obviously, 261 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: I mean that's I think that's something we all do 262 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: if we have access to iced drinks. Of course, the 263 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: thing with ice, of course, is that ice melts in 264 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: your mouth as well and actually serves to hydrate you, right, 265 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: but that the cooling effect of having the ice in 266 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: the mouth may provide a level of thirst quenching sensation 267 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: that goes beyond the actual amount of water you're taking 268 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: in from that ice. This gives me a great idea, so, 269 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: showrunners and so forth, of the Witcher, if you're listening, 270 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: I would love to see a scene where Henry Cavill's 271 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: Witcher character share some wisdom and he's like, sometimes when 272 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: when I'm thirsty, I just have a good lick of 273 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: my sword takes care of you know. That'd be great, 274 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: And you haven't seen there was just kind of licking 275 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: is the blade of his sword. I'd never heard this 276 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: before that apparently thirsty, thirsty rodents will lick cold metal. 277 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: But yeah, I had not seen it. Yeah, but it's 278 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: good enough for mice, it's good enough for the witcher. 279 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: I think all Garrold's just gonna that's that's how you 280 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: cut your tongue, buddy, That's how you cut your tongue. 281 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: Oh you know. It reminds me of brom Stoker's Dracula. 282 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: We have that wonderful scene where Gary Oldman's elderly Dracula 283 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: licks the blood from the straight razor. See, he was 284 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: thirsty and he quenched the thirst. But also hopefully the 285 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: blade was cold enough that that also had an fact. 286 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: I well, I guess after all these studies we looked 287 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: at on the quenching mechanism, I'm wondering, so the two 288 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: main different ones have emerged. One is the oral cooling 289 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: mechanism and the other is the gulping mechanism. You know, 290 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: the muscular movements in the throat is you're swallowing large 291 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: amounts of water. And I guess I'm not sure if 292 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: these two different explanations are competing or if they're complementary. 293 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: Maybe they both play a role in regulating these thirst neurons. 294 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: In the SFO. I'm not sure. Now, given all the 295 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: things we've discussed about the complexity of thirst, sensations, and 296 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: water acquisition by various organisms, I thought it might be 297 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: interesting to look at a couple of examples that, in 298 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: different ways seem to hijack mechanisms of related to thirst 299 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: and our relationship with water, not only ours, but also 300 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: some other organisms for the benefit of a life form. 301 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: Not the life form that is that is potentially thirsty, 302 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: but a life form that is that is hijacking that organism, 303 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: such as a parasite or a virus. Oh. Interesting. So 304 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: the first one I want to mention here is is 305 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: one that definitely affects humans, and that is rabies. Now, 306 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: I imagine I think everyone has heard of rabies. If not, 307 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: buckle in because I'm gonna share a little bit. Though. 308 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: This is obviously a topic that you know, we could 309 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: really bust out if we wanted to and give a 310 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: full episode treatment. But even if you're just vaguely familiar 311 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: with rabies, uh, you know, you might not grasp the 312 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: full danger and horror of this particular zoonotic viral disease. 313 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: I think a while back, I've read at least somebody 314 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: making the case that rabies is a contender for like 315 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: the worst disease known. Yeah, it is pretty horrifying and 316 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: for a lot of people in um in the world, 317 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: particularly and let's let's say United States, you're lucky enough 318 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: to live largely removed from it. I think that the 319 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: US is sometimes class of classified as being free of 320 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: canine rabies. Now, there are still cases of canine rabies 321 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: that pop up, and there are deaths that occur, but 322 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: not at the same rate as other parts of the 323 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: world where the problem has not been contained as well. 324 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: So it's rabies is caused by the virus Lisa virus, 325 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: which essentially means rage poison. It's named for the Greek 326 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: goddess Lissa, the goddess of rage, fury and rabies, the 327 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: daughter of Nicks, sprung from the blood of Lauranus, and 328 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: she pops up in different tales, like for instance, at 329 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: the urging of Hera, she inflicts madness on Heracles, and 330 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: in some tellings she's also involved in the punishment of 331 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: the hunter Acteon, who's torn apart by his own mad 332 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: hunting dogs, and in memory Serves. There are some interesting 333 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: treatments of the this latter tale in art. Yeah, I 334 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 1: think he looked at a god or something to that effect. 335 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to do much to get 336 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: to torn apart by dogs when you're dealing with the 337 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: Greek pantheon. Yeah. I don't remember all the details, but 338 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,719 Speaker 1: I think he makes Artemis angry for some reason, and 339 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 1: then he's a hunter. But then he's transformed into the quarry, 340 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: like he's transformed into a stag or something, and then 341 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: his own hunting dogs hunt atch. Right, there's some transformation 342 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: involved there as well. So humans have been exposed to 343 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: rabies for a very long time. It's um. It's thought 344 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: that it probably originated in old world bats and especially 345 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 1: flourished during the heyday of of dog domestication. So it is, 346 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: you know, it is. It is definitely tied to the 347 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: canine world. According to the History of Rabies in the 348 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: Western Hemisphere by Velasco Villa at All, published in Anti 349 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: Viral Research, the earliest record of a disease affecting humans 350 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: that's consistent with rabies and associated with dogs is found 351 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: in the Eshnuna cuneiform law tablets in ancient Mesopotamia dating 352 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: back to the eighteenth through nineteenth centuries BC. Wow, Yeah, 353 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: and I believe memories served it. It concerns like laws 354 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 1: concerning dogs biting people, like if you you have a 355 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: dog and it bites somebody. And of course we have 356 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:32,360 Speaker 1: other references to either cases that seem like they could 357 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: be rabies, or we feel pretty strongly are referring to rabies. 358 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: Aristotle wrote seemed to have wrote of it in three 359 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: thirty BC. Quote dogs suffer from the madness. This causes 360 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: them to become very irritable, and all animals they bite 361 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: become diseased. Democratus and Hippocrates also wrote of it as well, 362 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: and there are comparisons to raging dogs in the Iliad 363 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: that it seems like maybe you're less certain that this 364 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: is referring, because of course a dog can rage. I 365 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: guess it doesn't have to be rabid. But there are 366 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: also mentions of the dog star Ryan exerting a malignant 367 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: influence on human health, and rabies is just a terrible disease, 368 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: especially when you really get into what it can do 369 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: to an organism and what it can do to a 370 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: human being. Today, it's vaccine preventable, and the vaccines keep improving, 371 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: but once clinical symptoms appear, it is one fatal According 372 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: to the World Health Organization, in ninety nine percent of cases, 373 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: domestic dogs are responsible for spreading it to humans. Again, 374 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: in the United States, it is effectively we're effectively canine 375 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: rabies free, though you will still find cases that occur 376 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: and deaths that occur, so it's it's still possible, but 377 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: it is largely under control. In other parts of the 378 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: world it's not the case. And so you know, this 379 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: is all great reminder why it is important to get 380 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: your dog a rabies vaccine and to also get yourself 381 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: immunized if you come into contact with the disease, right, 382 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: and that time is very important there, right, Yeah, so 383 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: that the incubation period for rabies is typically two to 384 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: three months, but may vary from one week to a year. 385 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: And I think it depends on like the viral load 386 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: and you know, being introduced into your body and some 387 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: other factors. And then there are two forms of the 388 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: disease that are possible in humans. So once you know 389 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 1: this virus is in your system, one version is paralytic rabies. 390 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: This only occurs in about twenty percent of cases, and 391 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: it consists of gradual muscle paralyzation, coma, and death. It's 392 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: often misdiagnosed, but again, like twenty percent of cases, this 393 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: is what occurs. The other, however, is the the the 394 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: incarnation of rabies that certainly brings to mind these ideas 395 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: of strange curses from the gods, you know, the really 396 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: horrible stuff, and that's furious rabies. Symptoms here include hyperactivity, 397 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: excitable behavior, hydrophobia, the fear of water, and sometimes aerophobia 398 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: as well, fear of drafts of fresh air or you know, 399 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: blasts of air, that sort of thing. And death occurs 400 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: in these cases within a few days due to cardiac arrest. Now, 401 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: I gotta admit I've always heard rabies described as or 402 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: associated with this idea of hydrophobia, which obviously, yeah, that 403 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: means fear of water, but I never knew exactly what 404 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: to make of that, Like what does that mean in practice? Yeah, 405 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 1: because it's you know, when you start thinking about like 406 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: the things that a viral infection does, like you know, 407 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: to what extent is it about prolonging that virus or 408 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: or or you know, achieving something, and it's um you know, 409 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: in its cycle, and as you look into it, it's 410 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: it's really quite interesting. So again, this is the really 411 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: horrible fate the furious rabies. If one comes down with 412 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: this person's behavior and mood is drastically altered, anxiety, hallucinations, confusion, paranoia, terror, 413 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: and they tend to experience both a profound thirst and 414 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: a severe inability to quench that thirst. So what does 415 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 1: all this mean? Well, keep in mind that saliva is 416 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: central to rabies transmission. You know, if you think of 417 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: you just hear the words rabid dog, the image that 418 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 1: probably comes to mind is that of a dog frothing 419 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: at the mouth, right, with frothing saliva right, And it's 420 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: generally understood that I guess the saliva is what transmits 421 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: the disease. Like if you are bitten by a dog 422 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: that has rabies or by an animal that has rabies, 423 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: the saliva will transmit it to your blood. Is that 424 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: a real route of transmission? Yes, that is the primary 425 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: route of transmission. Bites and scratches are are the most 426 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: common ways that it is just transmitted. There are other ways, 427 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: you know, basically any infected fluid could do it, but 428 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: those are uncommon compared to bites and scratches, especially when 429 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: you're you know, think of a dog, think of think 430 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: of even you know, a bat or any other organism 431 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: that would carry rabies. The bite is the thing, and 432 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: it's steered in these cases by you know, enhanced aggression 433 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: and altered behavior. And seemingly, you know, the mouth is 434 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: primed to transmit the virus by excess infectious frothing saliva. Okay, 435 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: so much in the same way that respiratory viruses that 436 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: are spread by aerosols or droplets might tend to cause 437 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: the infected person to cough or sneeze in order to 438 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 1: further spread themselves to other people. Uh, this disease that 439 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: is spread often by saliva into blood through bites, Uh, 440 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: it would tend to cause the infected animal to froth 441 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: in the mouth with a lot of infectious saliva and 442 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 1: to be irritable or or aggressive in ways that would 443 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: lead to biting. Right, And that brings us back to 444 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: this question of hydrophobia. Like, then then for what reason, 445 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: you know, seemingly, like what role does does the fear 446 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 1: and does this carror at the idea of water have 447 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: to do with anything? So in humans this peers to 448 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,360 Speaker 1: manifest as a kind of panic that sets in when 449 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: presented with water and difficulty in or inability to drink, 450 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: like attempts to drink may result in spasms. There is 451 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: some clinical footage you can find online of individuals that 452 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: have been diagnosed with rabies attempting to drink water, and 453 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: I do not, I do not very disturbing footage, so 454 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: I don't recommend seeking it out. But if you find 455 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: yourself in need of of of the visuals for this, uh, 456 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: there there is some documentation online. I believe a case 457 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: in Vietnam is typically typically cited here. Now, does the 458 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: difficulty with drinking water when someone is infected with rabies 459 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: usually have something to do with difficulty in muscle control, 460 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: for like swallowing through neurological routes. Yes, yes, definitely so. 461 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: And the insidious nature of all this, though, is that 462 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: since the individual is prohibited from drinking water by the infection, 463 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: or at least the drinking water becomes excruciatingly difficult, saliva 464 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: production increases. You have hypersalivation, and they can't swallow the 465 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: excess saliva, and that's and they can't wash away this 466 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: excess frau thing saliva. So, in other words, it primes 467 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: the victim's mouth to be this potent transmitter of the virus, 468 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: especially through a bite. So it's um. Yeah, it has 469 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: a real insidious quality to it. But as as horrible 470 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: as rabies is. Again, fortunately there are vaccines that exist, right, yes, 471 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: So again all a great reminder get your pet vaccinated 472 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: for rabies. And if you come into contact with a 473 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: with an animal that has rabies or may have had rabies, 474 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,959 Speaker 1: you definitely need to go to a doctor. They can 475 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: take care of it. You don't want this, this, this 476 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: is not an illness you want running its course. Yeah, 477 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: thank now. I wanted to share another example though that 478 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: seems to go or potentially goes in the opposite direction. Uh. 479 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: Rabies inhibits thirst and and and alters thirst in that direction. 480 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: But if we look to to to the world of 481 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: the horsehair worm, we see something that that may possibly 482 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: be involved in generating excessive thirst in the host. So uh, 483 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: this would have to do with parasitoid worms from the 484 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: phylum Nematomorphah. They're known as horsehair worms because they're threadlike 485 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: round worms that resemble the hair of a horse's tail 486 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: or maine. Now, some people may have seen these before. 487 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: These are creatures that you'll sometimes fine living free in 488 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: a puddle or stream. I think I saw one once 489 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: like this while while walking on my mom's property. But 490 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: you can also see them occasionally burst out of the 491 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: body of a cricket, mantis, beetle, or other host organism, 492 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: very much like a xenomorph. Oh, now, maybe I was 493 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: seeing something else, but I know I've seen video of 494 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: something that was like a long, thin worm that was 495 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: just gradually spooling out of a cricket sexoskeleton to just 496 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: and it just kept spooling and spooling and spooling, almost 497 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: like the clown car where you know, fifty clowns get 498 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: out of a Volkswagen. But it's a worm that seems 499 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: bigger than the cricket it was inside, yes, and it's 500 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: it's crazy to watch. I have a very vivid memory 501 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: of being in a junior high band environment and there 502 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: was a cricket on the floor and somebody in a 503 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: neighboring section was grossed out by the presence of the cricket, 504 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: and so they stopped it. And then once they had 505 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: stomped the cricket, this horsehair worm began emerging from the cricket, 506 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: which of course only further grows out the individual who'd 507 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: stopped the cricket. So there's kind of there's some sort 508 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: of weird, horrific justice in that. Like if you think 509 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: the crickets grows, will just wait till you see what 510 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: the encore is. Surely it helped that in band practice 511 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: that day you were playing Carmena barana. Yeah, if only so. 512 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: The interesting thing here is that the adults of this species, 513 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: in these these organisms, they are free living in the water, 514 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: but the larva are parasitic and grow to adulthood inside 515 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: the body of an insect. So I think you can 516 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: all imagine how this probably goes down. A male and 517 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: male horsehair worms mate and damp soil and fresh water, 518 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: and then the female lays millions of the eggs. These 519 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: eggs hatch and the tiny larvae insist on vegetation near 520 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: the water's edge. And then what happens while a cricket 521 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: or some other suitable host drops by, it ends up 522 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: eating that larva one way or another, either either the 523 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: you know, like a cricket is eating the grass, or 524 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: like a mantis is going to eat the larva itself. 525 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: And so what happens then is a like a cricket 526 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: comes along and it eats the grass that has this 527 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: larva on it, or if it's a carnivorous mantis, well 528 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: then it eats a cricket that has already been infected 529 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: by the larva. In either case, the larva winds up 530 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: inside of another organism, the cyst dissolves, and then the 531 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: juvenile worm escapes, bores through the gut wall, and starts 532 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: absorbing nutrients from the host organism. This worm has a 533 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: move fast and things philosophy. It is a It is 534 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: a disruptor of the internal organs of its host. Right, 535 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: And at this point, it's kind of it's kind of 536 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: like you can imagine it like a stowaway in the 537 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: hold of a ship. You know, it's it's rummaging around, 538 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: it's eating some of the stored food supplies, maybe eating 539 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: the occasional crew member on that ship and minute and 540 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: otherwise also damaging the ship. But it doesn't need If 541 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: you're a stowaway human stow and a ship, what do 542 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: you want to do? You want to get to a 543 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: port somewhere, right and uh, And likewise, with this worm, 544 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: it needs to get to water or damp soil in 545 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: order to continue its life cycle. Now, if if something 546 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: happens to the cricket. If it's gets stomped in on 547 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: the floor of a middle school band room, it's going 548 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: to escape. It's going to you know, abandoned ship, but 549 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: it needs to get to damp soil or fresh water. 550 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: So it may be moving fast and breaking things, but 551 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: it's going to try to do so in such a 552 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: way that it ends up at a certain place when 553 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: when the whole thing goes to put right, it needs 554 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: to steer the host in the right direction. And so 555 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: this is where we get that bit of parasitic hijacking 556 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: in action um or at least that's that's one hypothesis 557 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: of exactly what's going on. That the worm instills a 558 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,720 Speaker 1: crazed thirst in the host so that it seeks out water. 559 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: That's sometimes referred to as the thirst hypothesis. An alternate 560 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: hypothesis states of the worm simply waits till the host 561 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 1: finds water on its own, and then it jumps out. 562 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: And it's my understanding that we're really not one hundred 563 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: percent sure what happens. That there's some some interesting evidence 564 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: for both both hypotheses. Ed Young and a twenty fourteen 565 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: Ted talk um mentioned that there's research that indicates that 566 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: this may occur because the organism releases proteins that alter 567 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: the crickets brain functionality. So and there does seem to 568 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: be some sort of of It seems like there is 569 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: a strong case to be made some sort of hijacking 570 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: is taking place, and if that's occurring, it may be 571 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: pushing the animal towards water via thirst. Okay, so I 572 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: guess that would mean you might be able to notice 573 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: this if you had a place where a bunch of 574 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: insects were getting infected by this parasite, they would be 575 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: showing a lot of drinking behavior, a lot of water 576 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: drinking behavior, right. But then again, yeah, there's also the 577 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,399 Speaker 1: other argument. Well, it's just it's waiting until the water 578 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: is until it's drinking. Even even that, that would be 579 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: pretty impressive because it's that like, how does the how 580 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: does the worm know what's going on inside the darkness 581 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: of the cricket or the darkness of the mantis that 582 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: enables the stowaway to know that there is water or 583 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: damp soil close at hand. But I was looking at 584 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: some of the papers that discussed this, there was a 585 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 1: this is of course, this is a much older paper 586 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: now but there was a two thousand and one study 587 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: published in the German journal zoo Logisha and Zeiger that 588 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: says that the thirst hypothesis has been supported by observation 589 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: of quote unquote suicidal behavior by infected mantis is in 590 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: southern France that would seemingly jump into the water and 591 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: then immediately outcomes the worm. So that would be a 592 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: case where yeah, like the mantis is not just going 593 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: to the water, it is to drink and then it 594 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: bursts out. It's actually jumping in. It's it's it's giving 595 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: up the ghost. So but I guess with that you 596 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,720 Speaker 1: still would have to ask your question, at what point 597 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: is there some hijacking of behavior. Was it the seeking 598 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: the water to begin with or was it something that 599 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: kicked in when the creature was close to water. So 600 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: we're not sure exactly you know which way way to 601 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: go on this as far as I understand based on 602 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 1: the research I was looking at. But it seems like 603 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: either way you're getting into these interesting Um you're getting 604 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: into the relationship between the host organism and water. You 605 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: know something about its uh it's bodily awareness of water 606 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: or the thirst or desire to be in close proximity 607 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: to water, and of course that is ultimately what the 608 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: parasite wants as well. Right, So the parasite either needs 609 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,280 Speaker 1: a mechanism of making the host to go drink water 610 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: or knowing when the host is drinking water. Right. Oh, 611 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,720 Speaker 1: in case anybody's worried, it's my understanding that occasionally humans 612 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,399 Speaker 1: end up ingesting these things, But I don't think there's 613 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: ever been any evidence or anything to support the idea 614 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: that they're capable of hijacking human behavior. Again, if that 615 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: is indeed what's happening in the case of crickets and mantises, well, 616 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: what happens when humans do ingest them. It's just kind 617 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,720 Speaker 1: of gross. They could like bombit them up. I was looking. 618 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,919 Speaker 1: There were two Japanese cases reported in twenty twelve due 619 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: to the accidental ingestation of infected insects. I think in 620 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: these cases that this has occurred via the consumption of 621 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: vegetables that had those insisted larvae on them. You're in 622 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: it a Some vegetables seem like they'd be a lot 623 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: better at hiding a little stowaways than others. Oh yeah, 624 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: I have this consistent problem with broccoli. I love broccoli. 625 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: I love cooking with it. But I a number of 626 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: times I've been like giving it a rinse before I 627 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 1: cook it or something, and then I'm like, oh, there's 628 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: just a bug up in the up in the tree 629 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: limbs there. It's hiding out in a little fork in 630 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: the in the florets. That's true. I mean, I guess 631 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: the it's kind of a this kind of the thing 632 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: about broccoli, right, is that the thing that makes it 633 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: so delicious, that's it's so great to cook because you 634 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 1: get you know, all the oil or the seasoning, it 635 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: ends up just getting embedded there in all the little 636 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: mooks and crannies. It also means they are all these 637 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: additional places that I guess something could potentially hide, or 638 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: you could just end up with some dirt or grid 639 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 1: in there. Maybe I'm just getting my broccoli from really 640 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: buggy sources. I don't know. Sometimes I get like CSA broccoli, 641 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: that's it's it's really nice, good stuff, but there's just 642 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 1: like a there's just a big old bug in there, 643 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: just just like tarantulas crawling out of it through your 644 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 1: kitchen and stuff. Almost. I mean, it's all just a 645 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: good reminder, you know, wash your vegetables everybody, even if 646 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: you're not sure they need it. You know, you give 647 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: them a once over? Why not? Right, you'll feel better 648 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: about it, especially if you're if you're listening to this 649 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: episode whilst cooking. All right, we're gonna go ahead and 650 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: close out Thirst Part three. What do you think, Joe? 651 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: Do you think we'll be back with Thirst four colon 652 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:23,319 Speaker 1: Thirst for Knowledge the Return of Jack Thirst. Yes, yes, yes, 653 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: we will be back. I'm sure of it. Yeah, like 654 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: this Thursday back this Thirst today back, Yes Thursday, this Thursday, 655 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: Thirst Part four, Thirst for More Knowledge, the final chapter 656 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: on the final chapter only on Stuff to Blow Your 657 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,879 Speaker 1: Mind or some other topic. I don't know. We'll see 658 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: I guess all right. In the meantime, if you would 659 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: like to check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow 660 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: your Mind, you know where to find them. They're in 661 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: the Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast feed every Tuesday 662 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: and Thursday. You can find it wherever you get your podcasts. 663 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:55,439 Speaker 1: You can also go to Stuff to Blow your Mind 664 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: dot com and that will shoot you over to the 665 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 1: iheartlisting for this show. I think there's a there's a Yeah, 666 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,719 Speaker 1: there is a link to our t shirt store there 667 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 1: if you just want to pick up some sort of 668 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,760 Speaker 1: stuff to Blow your Mind related design on a shirt 669 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: or a sticker. M We actually have a we maybe 670 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 1: getting some new ones in the weeks and months ahead. 671 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 1: And I know there are some some designs by listeners 672 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: that I that I've added in recent months. So there's 673 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: a leshy t shirt in there, there's a there's a 674 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: kind of psychedelic looking mushroom in there. And let's see 675 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 1: what's the other one. Oh yeah, there's the Pandora's box shirt. 676 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: Those are all wonderful designs, So check those out if 677 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: you want to um. Pretty fun. And let's see what else. 678 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Tuesday and Thursday Corps episodes, Wednesday's Artifact, Monday's 679 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: Listener Mail. Friday is Weird House Cinema. That's our time 680 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: to set aside most serious matters and just talk about 681 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: a strange film, huge things. As always to our excellent 682 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 1: audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to 683 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,760 Speaker 1: get in touch with us with feedback on this episode 684 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, 685 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 1: just to say hello, you can email us out contact 686 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: and Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to 687 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 688 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 689 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.