1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: to the show, follow Ridiculous Historians. I've got to say first, 3 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: I'm Ben. Hi. Oh hey Ben, it's me. No, they're 4 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: all pal And there's our super producer, Casey Pegram. Hello. 5 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: We're in a different studio today. Just peek behind the curtain. 6 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: So Casey is actually physically sitting in the same room 7 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: with us. This is Yeah, it's weird. I have to 8 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: like be quiet and not make noise, can't be crinkling 9 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,319 Speaker 1: a wrapping, craning your neck to look at us from 10 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: the side, and we have a really and we can 11 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: smell each other's musks. I mean, this is a very 12 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: small little hot box that we're in right now. Might 13 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: be Oh no, no, it's it's it's a melange of 14 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: our all of our musks and all of our musks combined. 15 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 1: We are Ridiculous History, a pot pourri of perfect ridiculousness. Yeah, 16 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: did you guys see the movie What was it with 17 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: Forest Whittaker? Was it Ghost Dog? The soundtrack? Is this soundtrack? 18 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: Jis does production, but is more I think known for 19 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: his verses when we're saying forms like vultron, I believe 20 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: that Riza is the head. I just saw riz in 21 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: the new Gym Jarmers movie, Oh yeah, how do you do? 22 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: He was great for his scene. I had issues with 23 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: the movie. I heard the movie was very like painfully 24 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: self aware. Yeah, but but no, he's like got a 25 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: little cameo. He's with whoops. So he makes a delivery. 26 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: That's pretty much it. That's great. I I do want 27 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: to I'm still a Jarmus Shaddic, so I'll check out 28 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: Dead Don't Die. But this is interesting because in the 29 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: concept of ghost Dog, right, is that he is a 30 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: samurai and people are often taken aback because they're thinking, 31 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: how can this black man be a samurai? Well, but 32 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: to be fair, he's also like a modern day kind 33 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: of self described samurai, isn't he right? He does it. 34 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: He's not dressed as uh samurai in the sixteenth century 35 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: would be. But today we're gonna talk about a historical 36 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: ghost dog kind of figure. Right. Yes, yes, Suke, the 37 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: enslaved African man who became a samurai and fought for Nobunaga. 38 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: Also soft note to any of our Japanese speaking friends 39 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: in your fellow Japanese speaking listeners in the audience. None 40 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: of US speak Japanese. Should we have brought in Lauren 41 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: Voge Obamas, a Japanese consultant on this one. You know, 42 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: I thought about it, No, but I didn't want to 43 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: spring it on her at the last minute. She's still 44 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: recovering from jet lag from Hawaii. Yeah. We we welcomed 45 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: her back yesterday and it was it was bitter sweet 46 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: because you know, and said welcome back. I'm sorry you 47 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: had to leave Hawaii. I just sing are the welcome 48 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: back caughtter song with open arms, and then we shared 49 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: a whiskey. You were there, I was there, I was there. 50 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: I said a looha. She said mahallow. Then that is 51 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: the extent of my Hawaiian language. You left it at that. 52 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 1: And just so you know, our our our knowledge of 53 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: the Japanese language is similarly. U light. We're gonna do 54 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: our best on these here pronunciations. UM. Here's the thing. 55 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: It's not unheard of in the history of the samurai 56 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: for non Japanese individuals to reach the heights. Uh, I 57 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: mean work their way up to the ranks of the samurai. Um. 58 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: You may have seen that Tom Cruise movie the was 59 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: it the last samurai Samurai I have problems with that film. Well, 60 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: isn't it kind of a white savior kind of like 61 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: narrative a little slight blood diamond, you know, and blood 62 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: Diamond is the is this very similar thing with Leonardo DiCaprio. 63 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: Someone is killing a bunch of people, but then they 64 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: do one decent thing and because they happen to be white, 65 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: their praise. And if I'm not mistaken, don't they both 66 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: do bad accents and both of the movies my favorite, 67 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: uh my favorite offered Connor or South African Accident is Leonardo. 68 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: They have a wood for people, locked me in them too. 69 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: It means white mining a Freakay? Who wow, that's actually 70 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: that's the accent is so terrible that I did a 71 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: pretty good job of what Leonardo DiCaprio was doing. Isn't 72 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: also a type of Lennox software? Yeah? But if I'm 73 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: not mistaken, So English sailor William Adams, who was born 74 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: in um came to Japan in sixteen hundred and he 75 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: did just what we said, rose through the ranks and 76 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: became himself a very notable samurai. But he was English. 77 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: Didn't Tom Cruise not doing English accent in the movie. 78 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken. I don't remember. I don't think 79 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: so then I you know, I was watching a shink 80 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: on a plane or something. Yeah, this guy, the English guy, 81 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: comes after Yasuke, and he's just the most famous because 82 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: I've never heard of Yeah, he's just the most famous. 83 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: There was also one from shortly after yasukes period who 84 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: was from South Korea. There were several from South Korea. 85 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: There was one guy from the Netherlands, and then there 86 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: was William Adams you mentioned, and then there was a 87 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: Chinese national, and then there was one who was unknown, 88 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: the Unknown Samurai. That'd be a good movie. That's a 89 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: great idea to start with the name and work backwards. 90 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: But no, we have this gentleman whose name is Yasuke, 91 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: and I can only imagine that that was his name 92 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: that he was given after coming to Japan becoming But 93 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: they refer to him in all the easearchs that we've 94 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: seen as that from the starts. We don't know what 95 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: his name was before that, but I can only assume 96 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: that that's the case. Would you agree, yeah, yeah, or 97 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: it's at the very least it's a japanization of his 98 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: original name. So we have a couple of theories about 99 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: his life, but we don't really know anything for certain 100 00:05:55,400 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: about his his original life before he arrived in Japan. 101 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: And according to some books, people just sort of assumed 102 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: that he was from Portuguese controlled Mozambique because a lot 103 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: of the people of color who were traveling to Japan 104 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: from Africa, We're coming from Mozambique. You know that's right, 105 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: because Um, he was an enslaved person. Uh, and he 106 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: was traveling with a group of Europeans or I believe 107 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: a gentleman from Portugal, and he was sort of like 108 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: a man servant to this. Um was it a Jesuit, 109 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: It was. It was some kind of religious a member 110 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: of a religious order, if I'm not mistaken. Yes, yes. 111 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: He arrived in fifteen seventy nine as the servant of 112 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: a Jesuit missionary, Alessandro Valigano. And Alessandro had been appointed 113 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: what they called the visitor or the inspector of Jesuit 114 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: missions in the Indies, so that was South and East 115 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: Asia and East Africa. So he would travel around to 116 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: all the missions owned by the Jesuits. And a lot 117 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: of this research comes from a gentleman aimed Thomas Lockley, 118 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: who wrote a book called African Samurai. The true story 119 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: of Yasuke, a legendary black warrior in fetal Japan and 120 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: ben as you said at the top of the show, 121 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: one of the theories that he came from Mozambique. Others 122 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: suggest that he came from Sudan, uh and even and 123 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: trained as a child soldier in Goa and India, right right. 124 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: The idea being that because of his to the Japanese 125 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: extraordinary height is about foot taller than the average Japanese person, 126 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: and because of his very very dark skin, he might 127 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: have been a member of the Dinka in Sudan. So 128 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: let's stick with Lockley for a second. This is again, 129 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: this is all speculative. There are no cooperating documents on 130 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: Yasuke's time. His agreed upon adventure, as far as the 131 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: documents go, really does kind of begin in Japan. But 132 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: Lockley spent nine years researching the story of this of 133 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: this man, Yes Suke, and he eaves that Yessuke was 134 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: abducted from his family by slave traders either of Arab 135 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: or Indian origin, and then trafficked across the Indian Ocean 136 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: through Arab countries and as you said, normal trained as 137 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: a child soldier. And it's during this time that Lockley 138 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: speculates Yasuke meets Alessandro Vallighano. Uh, the most powerful Jesuit 139 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: missionary of the day. So go Up was a huge 140 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:34,359 Speaker 1: trading missionary military hub coastal, yeah, for the Portuguese Empires, 141 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: and it was a huge center of the slave trade. 142 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: So it's it's quite plausible that this is where the 143 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: Jesuits encounter Yasuke for the first time. Right, I agree completely. 144 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: Let's back try just a little bit and give a 145 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: little bit of context of what was going on in 146 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: sixteenth century Japan at the time. Uh, huge divides going on. Um, 147 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: a lot of isolation from the outside world. Uh. The 148 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: country was split into various provinces and they were ruled 149 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: by these feudal lords that were Okay, I'm gonna do 150 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 1: my best on this one. They were called I think 151 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: it's dim yos um. And this is of course a 152 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: a nation that is an island, so it has a 153 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: lot of water that causes it to be isolated in 154 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: that way. Um, so it really creates its own kind 155 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: of universe, very isolated, and that is until European explorers, 156 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: you know, with ships and fleets seeking adventure, decided to 157 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: make their way into this what they thought saw as 158 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: a very exotic land that they either wanted to conquer 159 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: or you know, learned from or I don't know what 160 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: the motivated. What do you think? Then they didn't have 161 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: the most successful results at first. The Portuguese were the 162 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: first Europeans to arrive in Japan, and they brought their 163 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: entire culture with them, which included the religion and included slavery, 164 00:09:53,880 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: and it included our hero. So as we established, Jisuke 165 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: arrives in Japan in fifteen eighty one, and his arrival 166 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: triggers a literal riot. He he lands in Kyoto, and 167 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,719 Speaker 1: people wanted to see this extraordinary person and be in 168 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: his presence because they had never seen anything like this. 169 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: And the the next few pieces of this story may 170 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: be offensive to some listeners, but I have personal insight 171 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: on this too, because this happened to some of my 172 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: friends when they went to rural China. Yeah, yes, way, yes, 173 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: way to uh So, there's a warlord, the most powerful 174 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: warlord in Japan, Noble Naga Oda, and he sees Yasuke, 175 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: and at first he believes this is not a human being. 176 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: It's either a demon or a god uh daiko kutin 177 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: or god of prosperity, because they're usually represented by black 178 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: statues and temples. And so he does this is what 179 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: he does. He tries to rub what he thinks his 180 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: ink off of this man's skin and makes him like 181 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: stripped to his waist and then try to rub it 182 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: off him. And then he goes, oh my god, he's 183 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: fascinated by the Yeah, this is really this is your skin. 184 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: This is not paint or ink. This has happened within 185 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: our lifetimes. Two people in rural China had a friend 186 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: who was traveling out toward western China. Some older person 187 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: came up and without as so much as a by 188 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: your leave, they grabbed my pal's arm and they spat 189 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: on his arm and tried to rub rub off this 190 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: and they were they didn't think it was mean. And 191 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,719 Speaker 1: afterwards they you know, they wanted pictures with him, they 192 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: wanted to talk. Spending on people is never polite behavior. 193 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: I wouldn't I wouldn't say no, no. I I guest 194 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: culture where that's appropriate. But this is true. You can 195 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: we can kind of see if we exercise some empathy, 196 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: how amazing this must be. This guy is taller than 197 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: literally everyone. His his skin seems amazing to you, right, 198 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: And once Oda is finally convinced that this Yasuke character 199 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: is real, he immediately throws a feast for the guy, 200 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: and it turns from a riot to a party. Also, again, 201 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: these are warlord rules, so he pretty much decides the 202 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: tone of the room. Oh totally. And the riot element 203 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: you're talking about, I think referred to folks trying to 204 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: get a look at the guy, right, Yeah, literally, just 205 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: like a kind of feeding frenzy to kind of like 206 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: oh see, because oh, it's important to remember this certainly 207 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: would have been one of the first, if not the first, 208 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: many of these folks never seen of a of a 209 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: black man. Yeah, absolutely, And this is not it's not 210 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: necessarily a movie moment where it's like Oda is at 211 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: the Kyoto port Lord Nobunagas who was called asked for 212 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: an audience when he heard about all this commotion, and 213 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: that's when he does the whole thing about rubbing the 214 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: pigment from his skin and then throwing his feast, and 215 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: then he hires Yasuke. He makes him his retainer and 216 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: his bodyguard. Yes he did, uh, eventually making his bodyguard 217 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: for a little while though, he was treated a little 218 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: bit more as like a kind of like a source 219 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: of amusement or kind of like a novelty. But then 220 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: he demonstrated because of his training right as a child 221 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: soldier and his military prowess, he demonstrated very quickly that 222 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: he was a very competent and powerful warrior. Um. And 223 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: he began to learn martial arts as well, right, right, 224 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: And he was also versed in Japanese, so we think 225 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: he probably had these conversations. According to Lockley, Oda loved 226 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: just sitting around and shooting the breeze with Yasuke. You know, 227 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: tell me more about your life. There are no records 228 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: of how much he earned at his time, you know, 229 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: when he was first sort of a novelty and then 230 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: when within a month he's a warrior. Uh, we don't 231 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: know how much he was paid. So Lockley says, it's 232 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: tough to know how high Yasuke ranked. And that's why people, 233 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: that's why you'll hear a lot of people, including this author, 234 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 1: speculate that he was the equivalent of a page or 235 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: a bodyguard. That's right. But what we do know is 236 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 1: a Tokyo based publisher by the name of Matt Alt, 237 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: who works for a publishing house called All japan Um, 238 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: had this to say that Yasuke was no longer seen 239 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: as human shadow or any kind of like an indentured servant, 240 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: but he was like all vassals, meaning you know, a 241 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: samurai is a is beholden to their lord, the war lord, 242 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: right right, And that's why in less than a year 243 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: Yasuke went from being a page to becoming one of 244 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: the upper echelons of Japan's warrior class, the samurai. We 245 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: should stop just for a second and talk about what 246 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: a samurai actually is, because I suspect that many of 247 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: us may have a couple of misconceptions. So these are 248 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: warriors of pre modern Japan, and later they become the 249 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: military ruling class and the highest ranking social cast of 250 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: the Adol period, which sixteen o three eighteen sixty seven. 251 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: They had this sort of code, right, a code by 252 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: which one would live. May be similar to the idea 253 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: of chivalry, but this was Confucian in in design, right 254 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: or in influence. This bushido, the way of the warrior, 255 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: stress things like loyalty to your master self, discipline, respectful 256 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: ethical behavior, and there was also a lot of zen 257 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: Buddhism in there. But these might be um filling any 258 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: number of roles. You know, some samurai eventually essentially became bureaucrats, 259 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But uh, but not at 260 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: this time. No, no, no no, no, not at this time. 261 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: But but but you say, it was literally Oda's like right 262 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: hand man. He got all of this special treatment, um 263 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: preferential treatment. He was gifted a ceremonial samurai sword or 264 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: a katana sword. Um. He dined privately regularly with with 265 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: Oda um, which was very enviable among the other samurai. 266 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: He was kind of his favorite. It would seem based 267 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: on what we know. He also had his own private 268 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: residence which wasn't for everybody, and just seemed to be 269 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: a real asset to the warlord and have a really 270 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: prominent position in that society. Right and again, when we're 271 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: talking about this society, we have to emphasize this is 272 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: a fractured society. This is not the unified Japan with 273 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: which we are familiar today. There's a lot of interior fighting. 274 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: This is the air of warring states. It's a turbulent 275 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: century in history, and just just in the same way 276 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: that the Alamo or Antietam conjures these images of generals 277 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: and founding fathers, so do the key struggles of this period, 278 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: also called the Sinoku. According again to alt And Yosuke 279 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: knows that he is not going to have He might 280 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: have a future when he's older as some sort of 281 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: bureaucrat if he makes it, but in this very violent time, 282 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: he's going to fight. So within a year of his arrival, 283 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:06,239 Speaker 1: he joined Lord Noble Naga's forces in their invasion of 284 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: the Ega province I g a uh and they attacked 285 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: this place which is ringed with mountains. It was called 286 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: a ninja hotbed, with forty thousand to sixty thousand troops 287 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: and they conquered it. Yeah, and this is from Lockley's account. 288 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: He said that this first um foray into battle was 289 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 1: a success. His second there was kind of a twist 290 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: in the story, right, So according to Lockley's account, in 291 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: June two, Noble Naga samurai general Mitsuhide Akichi attacked his 292 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: master No Monaga at his residence in Kyoto. He launched 293 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: a tactical, you know offensive. The attack kicked off something 294 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: that's known as the Battle of Hono g Temple um 295 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: and that kind of put the Kai bosh on Noble 296 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: Naga's plans to bring together these fat entered factions in Japan. Right, 297 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: he wanted to unify the country under his control. More lords, 298 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: do you know it would make this place great? H 299 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: if I were in charge? Two? Uh. It doesn't take 300 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: warlords to think that way, but most do yep. So 301 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: it's it's a tragic, dramatic moment in Japanese history and 302 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: in Yasuke's personal history. He is fighting tooth and nail 303 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: during this siege, this storming of the temple, and when 304 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: Lord Nobunaga sees that defeat appears imminent and unavoidable, he 305 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: goes back to his thinking of the code under which 306 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: he has functioned for most of his life, and he says, ah, 307 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: this general has betrayed me, so I have no choice 308 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: but to commit seppuku, or ritual suicide. And that's when 309 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: I mean. It's a very specific way of killing oneself, 310 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: and it's pretty great. Lee. Oh, it gives me the 311 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: he b g's just talking about it. Thinking about it, 312 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: you're disemboweling you. You're disembowing yourself with a very specific 313 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: short blade. You stick it in and then you pull 314 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: it sideways, and essentially your guts just spill out wherever 315 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: you wherever you stand, and then you fall over dead. 316 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: Imagine it wouldn't be a quick death. And if it's 317 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: if it's something where enemy forces are giving you the 318 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: option to choose that honorable way out, I believe and 319 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: when checked me on this, I believe the idea was 320 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: that you were given the option of using the short knife, 321 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,479 Speaker 1: and if you faltered or you didn't do it correctly, 322 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: or you hesitated, there would be someone standing next to 323 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: you or nearby with a sword and they would decapitate you. Yeah. 324 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: In fact, Odah's last order to Yasuke was to take 325 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: his sword and his decapitated head to his son. Wow, 326 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: that's daddy, Oh my god. He Yasuki probably took the 327 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: head after after the guy had died. Afterward, Newbunaga died 328 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: and he had to take this head because it couldn't 329 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: fall into someone else's hands. It was considered very dishonorable. 330 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: So he goes back to Azuchi castle and starts working 331 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: for noble Naga's son, Odo Nobutada. His son also committed 332 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: suicide after suffering defeat at the hands of the same 333 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: treacherous general. That's right, and at this point, Yes, Suke 334 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: is what we call a ronan or what them started 335 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: with the Japanese referred to as a ronan, which is 336 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: a samurai without a master. And that's an image that 337 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: you see throughout you know, cinema and like fiction, the 338 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: idea of the roving, wandering ronan who was beholden to 339 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: no one, and you think of them as almost like 340 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: a vigilante of justice out to you know, right wrongs 341 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: or whatever. I don't know. The crime film with Robert 342 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: de Niro also that I don't know, like you know, 343 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: I don't even remember what happened at Ronan, but I 344 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: remember being a little unimpressed. Maybe I need to watch 345 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: it yet, maybe just too young. I don't know that 346 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 1: I ever saw that. And this is where we kind 347 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: of lose the plot on Yessuke a little bit, right, 348 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: um luckily does some more of his speculation that he 349 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: knows and loves so well. Uh. The idea is that 350 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: Yessuke could have possibly gone back to the Jesuit missionaries. 351 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: Who knows. He could have been a guard for the Jesuits, 352 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: but he could have been a sailor, he could have 353 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: been a pirate. It's just dream big. He just you know, 354 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: he doesn't need a change, you know, the whole like 355 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: handing over the decapitated head of his master to a 356 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: son that probably would have turned him a little bit. Well, 357 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: let's step back a little bit too and see that 358 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: although Lord Nobunaga was pretty progressive and seeing past color, 359 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: Mitsuhid was super racist. He said, this Yasuke character is 360 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 1: not human. He's not Japanese, not even human. He's a beast, 361 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: and I refuse to acknowledge him as a samurai. And 362 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: he said, the problem with is one of the reasons 363 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: he was so offended probably racism, senophobia. But but another 364 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: reason is that Yasuke did not commit sepukul, which was 365 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: the Eastern tradition. Instead he offered his sword to the general, 366 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 1: which is Western tradition. Interesting, so you think it really 367 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: is kind of the case that oda uh the original master, 368 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: was a pretty progressive dude for the time, in this 369 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: instant and in this instance, this single What I'm saying 370 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: is the way he was treated would not have been 371 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: the norm. You know, but maybe, but if you think 372 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: about it too, I mean, yes, they obviously became friends, 373 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: but his primary impetus was probably like, look at this 374 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: big strapping dude that I can put to work for me. 375 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, there's a little bit of racism even 376 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: in that exactly. That's that's the thing. It's sort of like, uh, 377 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: Frederick Wilhelm would have said that he loved the Potsdam 378 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: giants and was good friends with him, right, but he 379 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: would still kill them if they didn't do what he wanted, 380 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: of course. So so this is almost where the tail ends. 381 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: Despite his relatively brief time as a samurai, he's been 382 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: um a hero in fiction, and a lot of stuff 383 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: has been based off of him, including the great animated 384 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: series Afro Samurai loosely based ye, so loosely based in 385 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: that it just happens to be a samurai. And the 386 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: thing is there may have been others like him, but 387 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: we just don't have the same kind of documentation that 388 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: we do about him. Um. He was pictured in a 389 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: lot of traditional Japanese screen paintings where you he you 390 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: can he stands out among the crowd. You can definitely 391 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: tell there's like one black person among all of these 392 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: Japanese folks, and he appears multiple times, right right, right, 393 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: There's some I guess compelling stuff, but it's it's circumstantial. 394 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: This is the best documented case we have of this 395 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: sort of contact. There is another figure in Japanese history 396 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: that some experts will say is of African descent. Fellow 397 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: names Saka No Tamo Ramaro. That's a tough one, Ben, 398 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: he did very well. I did a horrible, piss poor job. 399 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: I disagree. We'll thank you. He was a warrior who 400 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: from about seven fifty eight to eight eleven a d 401 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: was a palace guard, and he was placed in command 402 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: of forces that the emperor had sent to fight the 403 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: indigenous people. The I knew this warrior was said to 404 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: have a black complexion, but that's kind of grasping at straws, 405 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. There's no one who said 406 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: this guy came from Africa. Unless we have dropped too 407 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: many spoilers in this Uh. There is a pretty amazing 408 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: looking dramatization of this story that's coming to Netflix in 409 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: the not too far future, where uh Yetsuke is going 410 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: to be played by Chadwick Boseman of Black Panther Thing. Yes, 411 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: that's right, phenomenal actor, and Yasuke does not have a 412 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: release date yet. The news on the street is just 413 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: news about casting, but I'm gonna watch it. I mean, 414 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: I already have Netflix. It's kind of a sunk cost, right, 415 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: What am I gonna do not watch it? Exactly? No, 416 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: you're not gonna not watch it? Yeah, and you know, um, 417 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: I am very much looking forward to it now that 418 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: Game of Thrones has let us all down so hard. Uh. 419 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: And also you know, just the fact that it's gone, 420 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: like not done, the fact that it was a disappointing 421 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: ending is neither here nor there. I need something to 422 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: fill the vacuum that is my Sunday night in the 423 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: hole in my heart. I'm just waiting for the books. 424 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: I don't think the story is over, because there's still 425 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: two more books. If you're listening, George R. R. Martin, 426 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: now you're a big fan of this show, maybe that's it. 427 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe, George, if you're listening, maybe you've just been 428 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: so busy listening to ridiculous history that you haven't had 429 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: time to sit down and write those other two novels. 430 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: If so, we apologize to every Song of Ice and 431 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: Fire fan out there. It's all our fault. It's mainly cases. 432 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: We got a very noncommittal nod there did Okay, It's okay. Um, 433 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: what else we got. Well, it's uh, this is the 434 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: end of our episode, but not the end of our show. 435 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: We'd like to hear your stories of other, let's say, 436 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: unorthodox outsiders who made a name for themselves in society 437 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: similar to the way yasuke did you know what I mean? 438 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: And this could traverse gender, ethnicity, religious creed. Let us 439 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: not forget that religious differences that seem relatively minor to 440 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: a lot of us to date in an increasingly secular 441 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: United States were huge deals for thousands of years. It's true, 442 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: It's true. Yeah, right, Asai, and give us your stories 443 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: of outsiders making a splash. You can write to us 444 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,479 Speaker 1: at Ridiculous at I heart radio dot com. You can 445 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: also hit us up on our Facebook group, the Ridiculous Historians, 446 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: where I think all you have to do is name 447 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: either me Ben or Casey, or just say something cute 448 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: or yeah, just make it make one of us laugh. Yes. 449 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,959 Speaker 1: You can also find us on our twitters on our Instagram. 450 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: You can find our personal adventures on Twitter or Instagram. 451 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: I'm at ben Bowland hs W on Twitter and I'm 452 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: at ben Bowland on Instagram. I don't really tweet too much. 453 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: I occasionally learn in other people's tweets, but not not 454 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 1: my things, So I am pretty exclusively on Instagram at 455 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: how now Noel Brown. Big thanks to super producer Casey 456 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: Pagram for holding it down in the sweat box. Big 457 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: thanks to Alex Williams who composed our theme. Big thanks 458 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: to Gabe Lousier. Big thanks to Christopher Hasiotis. Big thanks 459 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: to you for listening, and extra big thanks to you know. 460 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: I return your thanks with thanks of my own for 461 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: you and all you do for the just you know, 462 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: history at large. One day, this is so weird. I 463 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: I have this dream there's nothing to do with anything, 464 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: have this dream of throwing like an old fashioned pizza 465 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: party for us and all the ridiculous storians you know, 466 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: like where you would rent out as skating rink or 467 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: bowling alley. I just gotta find the right location. Tell 468 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: us if you'd be down for that. Totally, we should 469 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: totally do a meet up. We should get on the 470 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: historians page and to see if there's enough folks in 471 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: Atlanta to hang out sometimes. Let's check it out. Let's 472 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: see you soon, folks. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, 473 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever 474 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.