1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you from house stuff 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we are talking about 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: bachelorette parties. Last episode we talked about engagement rings, and 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: the previous episode we talked about gay marriage. Yes, we 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: do have marriage on the mind, not because either one 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: of us is about to walk down the aisle, but 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: because the way we know of and yeah, that we 9 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: know of, but because it is wedding season. And surprisingly, 10 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: bachelorette parties have a very interesting history and very stuff 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: mom never told you ish history. That's right. And I 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: let me say I was totally surprised that bachelorette party 13 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: history is so brief. Yeah, I mean it's it's kind 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: of a new thing. The bachelorette party that you think 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: of today is pretty new. Um. I actually I threw 16 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: a bachelorette party a couple of years ago. How did 17 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: it go? It was? It was kind of depressing. What 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you, Well, I think the important 19 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: thing and I feel like etiquette guides tell you this. 20 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: When you plan a bachelorette party, you have to plan 21 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: it with the bride in mind. Which seems obvious, but 22 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: if your bride is like a total party girl, you 23 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: should have a big party type of thing. We're a 24 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: pub crawl or whatever. But if your bride is quieter 25 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: and maybe just like the girls getaway kind of bride, 26 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: maybe you shouldn't plan a pub crawl. Did you plan 27 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: a pub crawl? Yeah? Yeah I did. And uh, the 28 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: the fellow women who you know, we all had dinner 29 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: first and then we started the pub crawl, they all 30 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: just started to like disappear. But so by the time 31 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: we were at like the third or fourth bar, it 32 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: was pretty much just the bridesmaids and the bride. And 33 00:01:58,440 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: let me tell you, she was not having a good 34 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: time because she was basically I don't know if she's 35 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: feeling bad that all those ladies left, but I think 36 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: what she really wanted was like, let's just drink with 37 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: my girls and you know, have some champagne and a 38 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: good time. So we got a cab, we went back 39 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: to the hotel, we drank some champagne and put on 40 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: a stupid eighties movie and that was the most fun 41 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: part of the night. That sounds fun, Yeah, yeah, I 42 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: planned one last year. In fact, for one of my 43 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: best friends and it was a lot of fun. It 44 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: was very cold when it happened, and we did a 45 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: pub crawl as well, um, which uh ended with us 46 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: almost being asked to leave an establishment, not because we 47 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: were so rowdy, but because I bought everybody whistles and 48 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: even though we knew some of the people who were 49 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: working at this bar. Uh. And that's really the only 50 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: reason we didn't get kicked out, because you know, we 51 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: wanted to make an entrance for for the bride to 52 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: be and I could just see the bar Nope, nope, 53 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: go out, turned around. Yeah, and whistles indoors. Not a 54 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: penis shaped whistles. They were not penis shaped whistles. But 55 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: we did have um, oh we did. I've made cocktails 56 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: for everyone beforehand, and there were penis stirs, cocktail stirs. Yeah, 57 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: we kept it classy ish. But speaking of that penis paraphernalia, 58 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff is very new to the bachelorette culture, 59 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: and according to a prominent bachelorette scholar, yes there is one. 60 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: It says a lot about our sexual moray's and gender equity. 61 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: But first, a brief historical word on bridesmaids, because surprisingly 62 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: there's not a ton of history on bridesmaids. There's this 63 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: idea that it goes back to ancient Rome when some 64 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: brides Toby would have been accompanied by a ton of bridesmaids, 65 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,119 Speaker 1: all dressed. Idea nically to try to trip up any 66 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: evil spirits that might try to whisk her away, or 67 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: kidnappers you might try to whisk her away. So bride's 68 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: maids were I guess, sort of like bodyguards at first. Yeah, 69 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: but that whole spirit superstition carried through for quite a while, 70 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: all the way through the nineteenth century England. Because if 71 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: you look at some Victorian era wedding photographs, you can't 72 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: even tell which one is the bride and which one 73 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: is the bride'smaid. Yeah, and that's why I don't understand 74 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: why people get upset when I just wear wedding dresses 75 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: to the weddings. You know, sorry, I look so good 76 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: and white. But you're just doing it for the bride. 77 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: I think you know you're protecting her. I don't actually 78 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: do that. Just to clarify um, but bachelor parties have 79 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: ancient roots. The often sided historical precedent to the modern 80 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: day bachelor party is fifth century BC. Sparta Sparta, where 81 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: soldiers would hold a dinner in the groom to be 82 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: his honor and toast him. But yeah, I mean it 83 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: didn't stay that classy for long. Things things did get 84 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: a little rowdier over time. In six, i'd never I mean, 85 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: I don't know why I would have heard this, but 86 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: I had never heard this. U. P. T. Barnum's grandson, 87 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: Herbert Barnum's Seeley through a stag party that ended up 88 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: getting rated by the cops because of rumors that a 89 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: belly dancer would be making a nude appearance. Yeah. And 90 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: in nineteen the term bachelor party is used for the 91 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: first time in a Scottish publication, Chambers Journal of Literature, 92 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: Science and the Odds, to describe a jolly old party. 93 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: So we have we we've got that whole culture already 94 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: established by two and then in four pop culture wise, 95 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: we have the first movie devoted to this pre wedding debauchery, 96 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: appropriately called bachelor party. Yeah, but it's Tom Hanks. So yeah, 97 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: I've never seen it, but you know it's gonna be sweet. 98 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: It is gonna end up sweet. Um. But but the 99 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: whole idea though, as to why bachelor parties have this 100 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: extensive history is that we have long accepted that men 101 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: want to sow their wild oats, and they are more 102 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: at liberty to have sex before marriage and tom cat 103 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: around and and do as men are want to do. 104 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: That whole notion that that it's simply in men's natures 105 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: to be you know, sex fiends, right, I mean, I 106 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: think the idea and and uh that that bachelor party 107 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: scholar you mentioned, Beth Monta Murro, brings it up that 108 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: there's an idea that men are really giving something up 109 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: when they get married, whereas women are gaining something incredible 110 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: like a life. Finally, I have a life because I 111 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: have a man. And so that that is sort of 112 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: what all of this hinges on. Because men get to 113 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: have that rowdy bachelor party to say goodbye to their 114 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: days of freedom. Women and however, they tend to get 115 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: bridle showers. Well, yeah, I mean because for a long, 116 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: long long time, throughout that history of you know, the 117 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: extensive history the bachelor party, the economic aspiration for a 118 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: woman was limited to being a wife and mother. So 119 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: it makes sense that the bridle shower is has been 120 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: the go to thing for so long that it actually 121 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: goes back to sixteenth and seventeenth century Holland, and the 122 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: origin story is that there was a woman who wanted 123 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: to marry a poor guy, and so neighbors showered her 124 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: with household gifts because her father was like, no, you're 125 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: not gonna marry this poor dude, and her neighbors were like, oh, 126 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: we shall help you. We will give you this, ye 127 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: old kitchen aid Nixon I know, and unfortunately can't do 128 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: a Dutch accent, but um. In the late nineteenth century, 129 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: bridle showers became routine for wealthier women in the United States, 130 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: which were focused around preparing them for their housewife e duties. 131 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: This was all around the time that you have the 132 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: cult of domesticity and the rise of consumerism, which melded 133 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: together nicely. Well. Yeah, around this time also you have 134 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: things like hope chests and trousseau's which the bride's family 135 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: would fill with linens and and dishes and stuff so 136 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: she could bring that into the marriage. I actually have 137 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: a friend whose little sister her parents had been filling 138 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: this hope chest for her for years, but the parents 139 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: didn't do it for my friend because they were so 140 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: convinced that the little sister would get married and the 141 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: older sister would not. Why would they be filling a 142 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: hope chest to begin with? What did they put inside 143 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: of a very traditional southern family uh? Literally like uh, 144 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: stuff from the grandmother to get passed down, So like 145 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: fine china, fine silver, fine linens, all of that stuff. 146 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: My mom does have a silver tea service waiting for me, 147 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: and it has been waiting for me for years and 148 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: almost any time I see her, she asked me if 149 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: I want to want to take my silver tea service 150 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: home and I and I'm putting it off. Yeah, Well, 151 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: my mom says that I have a mink coat waiting 152 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: for me. WHOA, Yeah, I said that I'm going to 153 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: attach a bear head to it and put it on 154 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: the floor like a rug. There you go. It doesn't 155 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: even need a bearhead. Just go ahead and toss that 156 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: thing down and call it a day. But that that 157 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: idea though, of women filling the hope chest, is because 158 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: traditionally men were expected to buy the house in the land, 159 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: whereas women would provide the soft goods. And before traditional 160 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: bridal showers where you might bring gifts for less wealthy women, 161 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: there were kind of sweet traditions. I think of the 162 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: a lot of women getting together to do things like 163 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: so the new monogram on sheets and linen's maybe get 164 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: together to help make a new quilt for a bed um. 165 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: Lots of these different kinds of again very domestic oriented 166 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: pre wedding traditions for women, but it was one structured 167 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: of course, around men as the breadwinner and the head 168 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: of household. There was even one game that was I 169 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: guess more taking place in the first half of the 170 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: twentieth century where a hostess would hide trinkets in cakes 171 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: that would be given to any unmarried women who would 172 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 1: attend a bridle shower, and these trinkets would symbolize what 173 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 1: their future husband's professions might be, so kind of like 174 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: a precursor to playing mash Yeah, fingers crossed for the 175 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: stethoscope lord. All right, Well, today, of modern brides still 176 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: have those bridal showers, even though there's kind of a 177 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: shift in how we view them, even though it's more 178 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: like just based on tradition versus I really really want 179 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: a bridle shower where they feed me cucumber sandwiches and tea. 180 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: What are you saying you do want that? Because I 181 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: could go for a cucumber sandwich, I mean, I could go. 182 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: Haven't we established that I could go for a sandwich 183 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: at any time? That's true, That's true, and it was 184 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: penn State, says y'allogist Beth Monima, who we've already mentioned 185 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: a couple of times, the the bachelorette party scholar, who 186 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: who was the one who said that brides are holding 187 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: these showers because of pressure's placed on them by earlier generations. Yeah, 188 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: but while a percent of modern bride's still have the showers, 189 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: almost as many seventy seven percent also have the bachelorette party, 190 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: because you know, the bridal shower is what you invite 191 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: your mom to, your your soon to be mother in law. 192 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: Perhaps that's the calm party, and then you have the 193 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: wild bachelorette. And but it wasn't until the nineteen sixties 194 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: that we even have anything like a bachelorette party start 195 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: to happen, thanks Monumorro says to things like the sexual 196 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: revolution and birth control. But the history of bachelotte parties 197 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: in the UK is a little bit older. Um The 198 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: term hen party dates back to the eighteen hundreds, but 199 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: that was just referring to a gathering of ladies, any 200 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: any gathering of women, so we were having a hen party. Oh, 201 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: I guess you probably need more than two women to 202 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: form a hen party. Anyhoo. So in nineteen seventies six though, 203 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: The Times used hen party for the first time in 204 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: the pre wedding sense. So a little bit sooner than 205 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: we're going to see the rise of the term bachelor 206 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: party in the United States. But even before the term 207 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: hen party was used as we would think of it 208 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: in reference to something like a bachelorette party, there were 209 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: similar traditions already happening, such as a female industrial workers 210 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: would get pranked on their last days of working at 211 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: the factory, for instance, before they got married, because the 212 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: expectation was they're gonna get married and then you know, 213 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: we work, but before Richard Gere came in to carry 214 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: them out of the factory. Never mind just a reference 215 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: to a movie I've seen a thousand times. But all 216 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: of this kind of grew out of before the sixties, 217 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: the personal showers, which were somewhere in between the bridle 218 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: showers and the bachelorette parties. It wasn't with your extended 219 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: family and your mom and your aunt, your grandmother. It 220 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: was with your close friends. Because those were the parties 221 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: like in the fifties where the bride would get lingerie 222 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: and other things she didn't necessarily want to open in 223 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: front of extended family, but they were still subdued, uh. 224 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: They were at people's houses. So it's it's kind of 225 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: that in between stage before we get into the full 226 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: big body bachelorette parties. And speaking of the full big 227 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: body bachelorette parties, Something Old, something Bold Bridle Showers and 228 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: Bachelorette Parties by Beth Montamorrow is our major source for 229 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: all of this, by the way, because she's really the 230 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: only person who has taken a deep scholarly dive into 231 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: this culture. And she says that in the nineteen eighties, 232 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: bachelotte parties were more about cementing friendships before that transition 233 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: into marriage. And there were a couple of scholars here 234 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: and there who hinted at bachelotte traditions. Instance, in two 235 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: we have Paula L. Dressel and David Peterson who were 236 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: studying male strippers, and they mentioned that some women would 237 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: see male strippers as a part of their celebrations of 238 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 1: upcoming marriages. Right, But it wasn't until nineteen five that 239 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: researcher Rebecca Clark uses the term bachelorette party to describe 240 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: what motivated women's attendance at one of these particular clubs, 241 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: and she writes about how media coverage at this time 242 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties really treated bachelorette parties like 243 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: something novel, foreign and crazy, like can you believe what 244 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: women are doing? And uh. In nineteen eight Richard Roper 245 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: of Eberton Roper Fame, UH, he wrote an article for 246 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: the Chicago Sun Times that really signaled a shift in 247 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: how the media talked about bachelorette parties. It was the 248 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: first one to really explain it as a social social ritual, 249 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: not something subdued and like, well, let's have a shower 250 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: and then go out for drink, y'all. It was really 251 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: kind of signaling the shift that it was moving before that, 252 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: beyond that into actual pre planned nights of debauchery. I 253 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: was surprised that it wasn't until nine I believe that 254 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: the term pops up in Cosmo. I would assume. I 255 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: would have assumed that Cosmo would be all over that 256 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: absolutely um. And then I found it funny that in 257 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: two thousand two, not so long ago, there was a 258 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal cover story about how bachelorette parties were 259 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: getting super raunchy while bachelor parties were simultaneously steering away 260 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: from strip clubs, and they attributed it to shifting gender 261 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: roles in the workplace. Well, yeah, I mean gender roles 262 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: and feminism definitely came up. And around the same time 263 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: as that Wall Street Journal article, there was a shift 264 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: in describing them as feminist activities, like we are taking 265 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: the bull by the horns and we are going out 266 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: as women, and a lot of these articles the shift 267 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: in tone. It started to describe women of the millennium 268 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: as a sarting equality and demonstrating their ability to flaunt 269 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: their sexuality. And so parties are starting to move more 270 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: into the public places, getting more elaborate and expensive, just 271 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: at the same time as the cost of weddings is 272 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: shooting up. So as we're getting bigger weddings, we're also 273 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: getting bigger, more ritualized pre wedding activities. Yeah, and you 274 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: could say that all of this just ties into the 275 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: commodification of American weddings that now costs on average around 276 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: twenty eight thousand dollars because now you have for bachelorette parties. 277 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: All of this pianist paraphernalia available to buy. For instance, 278 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: you have things like Destination Bachelorette parties, uh that you 279 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: can spend so much money on. Um. There's also, for instance, 280 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: being a merchandise. According to the not dot com, do 281 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: you want to hear the seven Bachelorette essentials, Well, you 282 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: gotta have a headpiece for the bride a dare lists 283 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: a suck for a buck accessory. Sorry I had to 284 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: say that on a podcast, But essentially it's like you 285 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: wear a candy necklace and strange men can dollar to 286 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: bite a piece off. I don't like that at all. 287 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: Or you can make your own. It's suggested by taping 288 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: candies to a shirt. That should I can I just 289 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: put a cheeseburger on a necklace and oh that would 290 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: be my that'll that. See, it's all about creating your 291 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: own rituals kristen Burg for a book. But you also 292 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: need naughty accessories blow up doll peanis paraphernalia of course, 293 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: And just to show how dated this article is, disposable cameras. Yeah, 294 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: you don't want to have that file lingering on your computer, 295 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: so you need to or drunk Facebook posting. Right. Well, now, 296 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: the last bachelor party when she was not only a 297 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: destination bachelor atte party sport of it was an Athens 298 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: so it involved leaving Atlanta, but there were a lot 299 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: of women coming in from like Texas and all over 300 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: the place. But yeah, there were penis cookies. So you know, 301 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: it's a thing. I've seen many a penis cake on 302 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: the internet, not that, not that I'm going looking for them. 303 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: In my let me clarify and my research on bachelorette parties, 304 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: I saw many photos of penis shaped cakes. Uh So, 305 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: but what does what does all of this mean though, Caroline, 306 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: Because Monta Murrow says that there is a deeper meaning 307 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: to these penis whistles and such. She says that bachelorette 308 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: parties and bridle showers are not just women's parties. They 309 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: are rituals of status consumption and materialism, of transition and ambivalence, 310 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: of friendship and reinforcement of relationships among women, and of transformation. Yeah, 311 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: and and she does write also about what it means 312 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: for the transformation of sexual attitudes and morals and Moray's 313 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: and and you know, gender norms and all of that. Stuff. 314 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: She writes that the very existence of the bachelorette party 315 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: is evidence that women have made some real inroads as 316 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: far as gender equality. Interesting, she said, men had bachelor 317 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,719 Speaker 1: parties because they were about to be trapped. So this 318 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: is the same thing we talked about that. Now maybe 319 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: this shows that women. Hey, if we're gonna talk about 320 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: losing things like losing freedom, maybe women are losing their 321 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: sexual freedom too. And so, she says, as the sexual 322 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: double standard lost some of its power, and as women's 323 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: rights and freedoms became more pronounced, it has become more 324 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: socially acceptable for women to acknowledge that they too are 325 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: entitled to a last night of freedom. And yet, though 326 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: about all of that penis paraphernalia um, she says that 327 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: they're actually symbolic of a contradictory role that a bride 328 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: is forced to play. She says, within hours of the 329 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: bachelorette party ending, she'll morph from body bachelorette to blushing, 330 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: virginal bride. And it's it's funny the discussion, the super 331 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: serious discussion of women going to male strip clubs and 332 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: what it means and and so. Mona Muro says that 333 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: though not necessarily consciously. Many women who end up at 334 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: mail strip clubs tend to be making fun of the 335 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: idea that men feel it necessary to have a last 336 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: night of freedom that involves porn and strip clubs, and 337 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: author Jacqueline Geller echoes that she says that the bachelorette 338 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: party is a gesture of retaliation rather than an actual 339 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: sensual adventure. It's answering almost an imagined insult, rather than 340 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: responding to the bachelor party's text of lewd sexuality, rather 341 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: than its subtext lamenting lost friendship. Yeah, the for instance, 342 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: the bachelorette party that I helped plan for my best 343 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: friend did not include any male strippers or male strip 344 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: club or anything like that. A because she would have 345 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: been not happy about that, and because it just wasn't necessary, 346 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: you know. Now, One thing though, that uh we we 347 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: really didn't look into at all. But it's something that 348 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: came up when I was listening to UM an episode 349 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: of Savage Love not too long ago, there was a 350 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: caller talking about how it was a gay guy calling 351 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: in complaining about bachelorette parties coming into gay bars and 352 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: gay strip clubs and tearing the place up and essentially 353 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: saying that these women need to respect these spaces, that 354 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: it's not so koshert for you to just waltson blow 355 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: in your penis whistle and disturbing their Friday night out 356 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: or whatever. And I know for a fact actually that 357 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: here in Atlanta, speaking of male strip clubs, there is 358 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: a gay mail strip club that if you are a woman, 359 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: you are not going to be let in with a 360 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: group of women because they pretty much have a policy 361 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: against bachelorette parties. Because I do I agree with the 362 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,719 Speaker 1: idea that you know what, your bachelorette party is not 363 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: your one night to go be obnoxious at a gay bar. Well, 364 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: it's not your one night to be obnoxious anywhere. Honestly, 365 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: I think you can. I think it's possible to have 366 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: a bachelorette party and not annoy the crap out of 367 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: everyone around you. But I do think that bachelorette parties 368 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,479 Speaker 1: especially do take more license saying it would be oh, 369 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: it's totally fine, it'll be fun. We'll just go and 370 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: go to a gay bar and and you know, all 371 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: of the men will find us fabulous. And and just 372 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: for women out there, I think that maybe you need 373 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: to take a second thought about respecting, uh, expecting their spaces, 374 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: just like we wouldn't probably want uh, well, I don't 375 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: know any bar I wouldn't really want a bachelorette party 376 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: to come in and try to take over the place. 377 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: So just something to think about. Yeah, well then you 378 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: have to ask yourself. Okay, well, so as their hooting 379 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: and holleran and all these public spaces, what else are 380 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: they doing? They're drinking, drinking. I was surprised at the 381 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: number of studies on bachelotte parties and alcohol and the 382 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: concern over it, and and the seeming surprise over how 383 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: much women are drinking at these parties. Well, but I mean, 384 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: I don't think it's so shocking. I mean, I think 385 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: any surprise express is sort of maybe not genuine, or 386 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: maybe it's I think it's weird that they're surprised that 387 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: at something like a bachelorette party, where you are already 388 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: stepping outside of normal behavior, um, that that that you 389 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: would be drinking a lot. Well, speaking of norms, uh. 390 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: In Changing gender Norms for alcohol consumption, social drinking, and 391 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: lowered inhibition at bachelorette parties, the authors concluded that women's 392 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: use of alcohol in this ritual challenges existing gender norms 393 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: and conceptions of masculinity and feminity. So the drinking, in 394 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: a way is simply an extension of doing the things 395 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: like being overtly sexual by wearing a penis necklaces and 396 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: having asking men to pay a dollar to bite candy 397 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: off of a necklace and going to a strip club, 398 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: et cetera. Yeah, And according to a May study in 399 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: the Journal of Substance Abuse, Uh, they really do talk 400 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 1: about like, oh, there's so much drinking, saying that of 401 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: women in these bachelorette parties reported drinking an average of 402 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: five drinks over the course of the night. And I 403 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: understand what the definition of binge drinking is, and that 404 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: is it. Yes, but I kind of feel like, uh, 405 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: you know, I think that maybe a one night, a 406 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: one off at a bachelorette party, is that's so terrible. 407 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: I mean, unless it's leading to awful behavior that puts 408 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: you in an unsafe position. Well, and guess I guess 409 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: a scholar would just say, well, why is that ritual 410 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: so specifically attached to bachelorette Because you know, I I 411 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: think and I would be curious to hear from listeners 412 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: on this. I think that the the emerging stereotype for 413 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: bachelorette parties is more of a pub crawl kind of 414 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: thing where you go out and you are gonna binge, 415 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: drink and for guys. When I think of a bachelor 416 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: party these days, yeah you have the hangover and the 417 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 1: hangover part two and the hangover part three. Now, Um, 418 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: but I imagine guys doing things like drinking some scotch 419 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: and smoking cigars in one place. I mean maybe, I 420 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't think of that. I mean, I 421 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: guess I still think of like the traditional like go 422 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: out and get schwaisted. Apparently I have a very aristocratic idea. 423 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe your dude friends are more sophisticated 424 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: than mine. I don't know. I feel like almost there's 425 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: there's a touch of overcompensation in a way with with 426 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: bachelortte parties, where it's like we go so far, so 427 00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: far out because obviously there's the whole stripper aspect that's seeing, 428 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: you know, stereotypical. But um, yeah, I don't know. I'm 429 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: I'm I'm so curious to hear from listeners on this one. 430 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: Our bachelorette parties a symbol of gender and sexual equality 431 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: and a sign of good things, um or are they 432 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: just a night of frivolous excess? Yeah, I mean, I 433 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: don't know. It's interesting some of the things we read 434 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: talked about girls nights and girls like trips to a 435 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: mountain cabin as something really subdued and like, you know, 436 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: whereas the party with the penis necklaces and all the 437 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: cocktails is is the fancy, fun thing to do, And 438 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: it's like, well again, like I said at the beginning, 439 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: I mean you kind of have to take into account 440 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: what the bride wants, what's her personality, right, you know 441 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: what what what group of friends are you getting together? Yeah? 442 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: And what will they want to do? And I had 443 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: a great time at my at my best friends we 444 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: had we all had a really fun time and it 445 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: was just enough too much. It ended with a lot 446 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: of pizza, which was great. Um So I'm definitely not 447 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: against the ritual at all, but it's it's compelling to 448 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: stop and think of where did all of this come from? 449 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: Birth control, baby birth, bakst. And with that, listeners, we 450 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: want to hear from you anyone planning a bachelotte party 451 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: or any brides to be nervous about the bachelorette party 452 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: grooms as well. Do you think that at this point 453 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: bachelotte parties are getting wilder than bachelor parties? All of 454 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: these thoughts we want to hear. Mom Stuff at Discovery 455 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: dot com is where you can send your letters. You 456 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: can also drop us a line on Facebook or tweet 457 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: us at Mom's Stuff podcast. And we got a couple 458 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: of your letters to share when we come right back 459 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: from a quick break. And now back to the letters. 460 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: Christ and I have one here from Jared. He's writing 461 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: in about our bed wedding episode. Uh he says, First off, 462 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: allow me to say that I greatly enjoy the show. 463 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: Thank you, Jared. Uh he says. I was a chronic 464 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: bed wetter, and while the exact number of times per 465 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: week escapes me now, I do remember it as being 466 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: quite frequent, not drinking much, double voiding, and none of 467 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: the simple tricks helped me at all. I must admit, though, 468 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: my primary problem with wetting the bed was that I 469 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: was an extremely heavy sleeper. As such, while the alarm 470 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: I had would eventually wake me up, it was normally 471 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: much too late for me to do anything but change 472 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: the sheets or reposition myself to sleep in the least 473 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: wet part. Urology appointments and even bladder X rays found 474 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: nothing amiss. I was just programmed to sleep deeply and 475 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: wet the bed. I did eventually get a hormone spray 476 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: that I shot up my nose at night, and this 477 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: helps somewhat. But I off and on wet the bed 478 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: until seventh grade. Then my body finally stopped me from 479 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: the endless embarrassment of waking up to soggy sheets. I 480 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: do not miss the crinkling of the plastic sheets I 481 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: used to protect my mattress, or the embarrassment of the 482 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: first time I had a friend over and realized that 483 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: I had stripped the bed that morning to leave only 484 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: the plastic behind. Now, strangely, I'm a very light sleeper. 485 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: Perhaps life is having a fickle sense of humor. So 486 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: thanks Jared, and I've got an email here from Chris, 487 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: subject line a trans perspective on your video the science 488 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: of Bitchy resting phase. Um. That's in reference to a 489 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: recent YouTube video over at YouTube dot com slash stuff 490 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: Mom never told You, and Chris writes, as I mentioned, 491 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: I'm trans and for me this means that I have 492 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: been perceived by others as both male and female at 493 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: different times in my life. Your points about women's experiences 494 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: are exactly in line with what I've experienced, but I 495 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: also wanted to add some interesting aspects of what I've 496 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: experienced when I've been perceived as a man. While women 497 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: are expected in pressure to emote constantly and generally in 498 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: a positive manner, men are conversely expected and also actively 499 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: pressured to not emote in a positive manner, especially through 500 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: facial expression and body posture, unless they are being a 501 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: funny caricature or something similar. In my experience, one consequence 502 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: of the squashed masculine positive emoting is actually muted experience 503 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: of positive emotion. I guess the mechanism behind this is 504 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: sort of an inverse of the well known feedback between 505 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: emotional facial expression and experience of emotion. Well, it is 506 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: clearly unfair to use a certain class of person to 507 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: prop up others emotional security, as our patriarchal society uses women. 508 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes it is also unfair to rob another class of 509 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: people of the full richness of emotional experience. Basically, the 510 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: patriarchy screws us all and everyone. Men, women, gender, queers, etcetera. 511 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: Should be a feminist if they want the most out 512 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: of life. So thanks Chris for sharing that perspective, and 513 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: thanks everybody who's written in. Moms of a Discovery dot 514 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: com is where you can send your letters. You can 515 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: also find us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter 516 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcasts and on Tumbler as well at 517 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You dot Tumbler dot com, and 518 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: like I said, we are on YouTube. You can head 519 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: over and watch the Science of Bitchy, Resting Face and 520 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: many more video at YouTube dot com, slash stuff Mom 521 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: Never Told You and don't forget to be a friend 522 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: in subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics. 523 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff Works dot com