1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: Body dyes with Joseph's Gotten More Robert Louis Stevenson. I 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: was fascinated when I was, you know, a kid, and 3 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: I read Treasure Island for the first time. You know 4 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: those stories. Now they I don't know, I guess it 5 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: seems kind of quaint. But you know what always fascinated 6 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: me about that story was kind of the mystery. And 7 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: you're seeing it through this kid's eyes, and you're thinking 8 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: about what that wild life would have been, like, you know, 9 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: with pirates, And I guess the ultimate thing is the 10 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: mystery and buried treasure, treasure maps. Imagine that going out 11 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: and putting a shovel into the soil and recovering something 12 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: that had quite a bit of value to it. Today, 13 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: on body Backs, we're going to talk about a case 14 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: that I don't know, it's been fifty years in the making. 15 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: A case that involves something that was buried, buried and 16 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: after it had been discarded by the state because no 17 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: one claimed it, no one claimed it for fifty years. 18 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 1: A mystery, A mystery that has in fact been solved. Oh, 19 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: by the way, did I mention that in this case 20 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: there is an X involved in this Only the X 21 00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: didn't mark the spot the X was actually buried with 22 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: an unknown body. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is 23 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: body bags. Dave. Did you ever imagine in your wildest 24 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: dreams when you were a kid that he could go 25 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: out in the backyard and maybe dig something up it 26 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: would have value to it. I know I did. 27 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: We did all the time. 28 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought that, you know, ripping and roaring through 29 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: the woods and all that sort of stuff. You look 30 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: for things that have value, and turns out it's just 31 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: somebody's drunk uncle through an old bicycle out ye how 32 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: it was, and it's rusted. 33 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 2: Children still do that, boys. I don't like to say 34 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: anything that leaves out girls because my daughter Hannah was 35 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,679 Speaker 2: this way, but all of my boys have done that. 36 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: Braylen comes home, he goes on an adventure and come 37 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: home with a can and it's like you're looking at going, yeah, 38 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 2: that's a doctor Pepper from nineteen eighty five. I can 39 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 2: tell by the pop top you know that. 40 00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: Kind of thing. 41 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but I forgot that's ancient history to him. 42 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: So yeah, that whole idea of digging and finding treasure, 43 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 2: it's exciting and it is it is. 44 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: And you know, Dave, I got to tell you, in 45 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: the world, the modern world that we live in now, 46 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: I would submit to you, my friend, that there are 47 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: treasures buried in a lot of different places. But it 48 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: all comes down to where you put the value in 49 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: the treasure, right and so you know there and when 50 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: I say the value and the treasure, of course, what 51 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: I'm talking about are our human remains, because with there 52 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: are so many remains out there, Dave, and uh, you know, 53 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: and I grieve over this so much, I truly do. 54 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: I wring my hands over it as a former investigator 55 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: because I always think what else could I have done. 56 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: It's very frustrating. But on one hand, it's I've seen 57 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: it come full circle now into a world that I 58 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: never thought that we would see. And that is the 59 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: unidentified that that's the identity of unidentified persons. And I 60 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: think about all of the the bodies that I watched 61 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: go out the door, that were taken to Potter's Field 62 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: or you know wherever it was, and those bodies were 63 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: essentially you know, they're just kind of forgotten when I 64 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: know about them. 65 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 2: When you sent this story, yeah, and I started looking, 66 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 2: and you've got an x Mart spot on it. I 67 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: was looking at it, and I started to study and 68 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 2: started research, brought out the maps. Okay, I didn't break 69 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: out the paper maps. I looked online, but still I 70 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: got out the map. And the thing is, I was like, 71 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: isn't this where Henry Hill was riding in the opening 72 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: of Goodfellas when they were driving out. I had to 73 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 2: pull out the side of the road to stab the guy 74 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: to death that was in the trunk, and then took 75 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: him out there and buried him because the remember, they 76 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 2: had to dig him back. 77 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: Up later on because the condos were going to be 78 00:04:58,960 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: built out there. 79 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: In this particular case, we have a story that begins 80 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy with a dead body being found. But 81 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 2: it's not just a body being found. It is a headless, 82 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: handless body with an ex carved into the chest, and 83 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: it's left in upstate New York Alleghany County, and it's 84 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: an area where those who spent time in New York 85 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 2: in the late sixties and seventies believe this was a 86 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: place where mobsters got rid of rats and people who 87 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 2: had done them wrong. This was the way the X 88 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 2: marks the spot, the head and the hands gone. You're 89 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: getting rid of dental identity fingerprints. I mean, this was 90 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: a professional job, and it was so professional in fact 91 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 2: that this unknown what was left of the body was 92 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 2: not identified for a long time. But what used to 93 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 2: be gone done and done stuck in a hole. We 94 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 2: don't have to worry about Philip anymore. Well now, because 95 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: of authorm and because of the technology advances, Joe, this headless, 96 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 2: handless body marked with an X in the chest has 97 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: been identified after what fifty six years? 98 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fifty plus, that's for sure. One other piece 99 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: to this, Oh boy, that was bad, Tommy, what I 100 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: wanted to say, Joe, I was going for low hanging fruit. 101 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: There nobody misunder misunderstand or misconstrued. Well, you can go ahead. 102 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: People are Dave's shot low hanging fruit. 103 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: A But what I will say is that in this 104 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: particular case, let me just tell you how much more 105 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: difficult it was for investigators, because, first off, I think 106 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: they whoever did this wanted him found. Okay, because kind 107 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: of in plain sight, I guess to a certain degree, 108 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: no effort was really made to obscure the body. But 109 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: here's one other thing that really made it difficult. There 110 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: were no clothes nothing. This guy, this human remains were 111 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: just found nude as well. 112 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: But you said that you think they did it. They 113 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: wanted him to be found, but they didn't want him identified. 114 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 2: So was this like an insider thing that they see. 115 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's people, Yeah, yeah, I guarantee you dollars to doughnuts. Wow. 116 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: Now they might all be dead now for all I know. 117 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: I have no idea. However, it's my belief that there 118 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: are probably a group of people out there that may 119 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: have existed in the past that knew that this was 120 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: going to happen, because somebody has probably been warned on 121 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: some level, and that new circulates because this kind of 122 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: event like this in rural, this isolated area. Okay, this 123 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: would have made it into the newspaper. Oh yeah, and 124 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: it would have leaked out and it's confirmatory. Right you 125 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: go back. Now, I don't know about all the dirty details. 126 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: You know. Back then there was a bit more of 127 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: what's the word propriety, I guess, and they would only 128 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: allude to things. They wouldn't specifically talk about it necessarily 129 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: like we do today in a rather gratuitous manner. However, 130 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: I submit to you, my friend, that when this was perpetrated, 131 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: there was specific intent for people to you know, make 132 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: this discovery and to send a message. I'm reflecting back 133 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: now relative to this case. So you take the guy's 134 00:08:55,480 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: clothes off. And here's another piece to this that they 135 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: that they did reveal at the time they revealed Dave 136 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: that they didn't believe this event occurred where he was found. 137 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: Right, They did believe he had been killed and dismembered 138 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: to a point somewhere else. 139 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 140 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 2: You said that they left his body where it could 141 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: be found, so it wasn't buried. They didn't dig a 142 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: hole lime on him and stuff. 143 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: No. 144 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: No, By the way, does that help when we see 145 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: this in the movies like well Goodfellas, you know, where 146 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 2: they make a case about lime. H You know, what 147 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 2: is the purpose for putting lime on a body? To 148 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: to knock the smell down or to help it decompose? 149 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: Is there a reason for it or is an old line? Yeah? Yeah, 150 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: most people believe that it is actually uh there uh 151 00:09:51,520 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: two to speed or hasten decomposition. That's that's part part 152 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: of it. And there's also another another part to this 153 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: where people believe that it knocks down knocks down the smell. 154 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: I've been around bodies that have in fact been covered 155 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: in lime. And maybe maybe I think that it's all relative. 156 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: You could say perhaps that the smell changes somewhat. However, 157 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: you I don't think that you could actually say that 158 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: it completely degrades the smell. It's really the smell of humans. 159 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: Decay is really difficult to defeat. 160 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 2: Dave, let me ask you a question a little follow 161 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 2: it to that. Yeah, we did a show where tires 162 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: were involved. 163 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, you remember, yep. 164 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 2: If if you were to take a body like this, 165 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 2: no head, no hands, and you're out in the woods, 166 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 2: but you say, take fifteen twenty tires and put them 167 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 2: on top of or around the body, would that be 168 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 2: enough tires to prevent the smell of decomposition. 169 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, to a certain degree. But you know, you would 170 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: have to think that if you were to take that 171 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: number of tires, you're certainly going to draw attention, you know, 172 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: to a tire a group of tires that had not 173 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: been there before. But yeah, I think that it could 174 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: knock down the smell. But I think that there's bodies 175 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: have been used for a long long time to send 176 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: a message. It's it's part of it's they have utility. First off, 177 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: it's not just about it's not just about the revenge 178 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: of whatever the perception is of ondoing against a group 179 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: of people or whatever it is. It's also as a warning. 180 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 1: It can be a foreshadowing of things that are to come. 181 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: I think that the peace to this, to try to 182 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: understand is what in the world, What in the world 183 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: could this man who is found in this isolated area 184 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: have done to warrant this kind of treatment of his 185 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: body in death? David, part of me really enjoys seeing, 186 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: you know, AI, recreations of old photographs. I love seeing 187 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: things that you know, perhaps have been brought back to life. 188 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: I like a lot of old military stuff and so 189 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: to see animations of formerly black and white images being 190 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: having life breathed into them, it's kind of cool, I think. 191 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: But you know, for somebody that has enjoyed black and 192 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: white photography for a long time, participated in it for 193 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: a while, never was good at it, but I've always 194 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: appreciated it, and I love looking at black and whites. 195 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 1: I think back to like Ansel Adams that took these 196 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: incredible scenes landscapes from you know, the American West and 197 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: became quite famous for it. There's actually an image Dave 198 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: that hearkens back to Ansel Adams for me. And the 199 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 1: reason is is that it's the spot where the body 200 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: of this victim was found. And it's obviously black and white, 201 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: and it looks like it looks like a roadway that's 202 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: that has been kind of graded down. It's not like 203 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: black top. It's going through rolling hills. You can see 204 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: some hills off in the distance. There are no leaves 205 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: on the trees, and there are banks of snow all 206 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: over the place, and you can see snow covered hills 207 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: off in the distance as well. It's kind of it's, 208 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of got a feeling, you know 209 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: when you see this thing of loneliness. And this is 210 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: up in the the andover area where the remains were 211 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: found actually named the roads Davis Hill Road, and he's 212 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: just found out there on the road, this body is. 213 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, you know about the person that came 214 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: across these remains in these conditions, you talk about Stark 215 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: when you see this, When you see this image, you 216 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: can understand why the body was probably pretty well preserved. 217 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: It looks really really cold. If you ever looked at 218 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: a photograph and you can kind of take away from 219 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: the photograph, you can say, wow, that looks like that's 220 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: really cold, or wow, they're in a tropic environment and man, 221 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: that looks like it's really hot there on the beach, 222 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: or maybe in the jungle. You see pictures of guys 223 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: from Vietnam and that sort of thing, or you know, 224 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: even over in the Middle East, but this thing looks 225 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: very I guess the great great word for it is stark. 226 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: And for some reason, whoever perpetrated this event decided on 227 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: this location to kind of throw this poor person's body 228 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: out on the side of the road. And I think again, 229 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: it's meant to send a message. Whoever found this. I 230 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: don't know if they received a message, but I know 231 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: that it's an image that probably lived with them for 232 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: the rest of their lives. 233 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: But okay, where are the head? Where's the head and hands? 234 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 2: Because this body was not complete this body. It was 235 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 2: a headless, handless, naked human being with an X carved 236 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 2: in his chest. And it leads me to wonder, you know, 237 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 2: what did they do with the head in the hands 238 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 2: because as you mentioned right off the top, this body 239 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: was not the person was not murdered in this spot 240 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: and then taken a part As a matter of fact, 241 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 2: this we don't even know do we know how the 242 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 2: individual died in nineteen seventy could they figure that out? 243 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: No, there has not been a cause of death released 244 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: in Dave. I got to tell you if this was 245 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: some type of organized crime event, you know, people always 246 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: think about organized crime where somebody walks in with a 247 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: fully automatic, you know, weapon and they just blast away 248 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: like out of some kind of gangster movie or something. 249 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: That's generally not the way you know, that kind of 250 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: thing happens, particularly if it's you know, some kind of hit, 251 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: it's going to be done very very quietly. Did you 252 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: know that? You know what one of the most popular 253 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: weapons has been over the years for for execution? Wow, 254 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: is no when it come when it comes to firearms 255 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: or twenty two's because they can easily yeah, they can 256 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: easily be the sound can be knocked down quite effectively. 257 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, during I think it was 258 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: during Vietnam Operation Phoenix, we made our government and I've 259 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 1: actually held one of these, believes or not a customized 260 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: pistol that had a built in suppressor or some people 261 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: say silence or I hate the term, yeah, but uh, 262 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: and it's it's subsonic. So what that means is it's 263 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: below the speed of sound, so you don't hear that 264 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: that huge crack that you hear would say a hypersonic ground. 265 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: And to the idea of the head you you mentioned 266 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: earlier on that there would be no teeth, right, and 267 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: teeth would be a very common way that any kind 268 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: of dental records you could acquire. Teeth would certainly be 269 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: a way that we could get somebody identified. But also 270 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: if you pop somebody in the back of the head 271 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: like execution style, there's a high probability that round would 272 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: still be in the head. Oh wow. And so literally 273 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: you're removing the head. But when you remove the head, 274 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: and let's say it's not a through and through wound, 275 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: you're carrying with you the causal factor that led to 276 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: this individual's death. Now the hands, that's something else. I 277 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: think that that goes specifically, specifically, rather to identification, a 278 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: means to get anybody identified. You know what. They have 279 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: not released yet though, because and we're going to tell you, 280 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,959 Speaker 1: but they do have an ID on this individual now 281 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: in the modern contact. But I really wonder if they've 282 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: gone back to see what kind of record this now 283 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: id person had and did they have prints in the 284 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: system from back then? 285 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 2: Interesting because it would be as you have said many times, 286 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 2: and I'm so glad you pointed this out, but you 287 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: said that it doesn't matter if you find prince, if 288 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 2: the person's not in the system, you know, if they 289 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 2: haven't been busted before, they don't have a reason. So 290 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy, before before computerization of things, it would 291 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 2: have even been more remarkable and to be able to 292 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 2: match up fingerprints. But just to go ahead and cut 293 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 2: the chase here, because we already know we have a body, 294 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 2: well what's the left of it? And we are doing 295 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 2: a show called body Bags about said body. And even 296 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 2: though this body was found in October of nineteen seventy 297 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 2: with hand, no head, no hands, no identification, naked and 298 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 2: was buried unidentified, he was buried as and was called 299 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 2: for years by a name that is not that uncommon. 300 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 2: We've used these before, where you have the county the 301 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 2: person was found in with the name John doean in 302 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 2: this one it was Alleghany County, John Doe nineteen seventy. 303 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 2: That's when this victim was buried. I think I said October. 304 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 2: The body was found in March of nineteen seventy. March, yeah, 305 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 2: if I said October earlier, I apologize, But March twenty, 306 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy and the detectives at the time believed that 307 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 2: the evidence suggested he was a victim of being killed 308 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 2: in some type of mob related hit, carried out some 309 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 2: place else, and his body was dumped in this area 310 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 2: of Alleghany County. The killer was a pro and he 311 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 2: was buried unknown in a potter's field. Now it didn't 312 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 2: end there. The body was later exhumed. And when we 313 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 2: get to that point, Joe, I'm really curious the passage 314 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 2: way what you would have to do, because you've explained 315 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: many times how difficult it is to exum a body. 316 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 2: But to even come to that point, they had to 317 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 2: try to get a little background right. Well, in nineteen 318 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 2: seventy three October sixteenth, nineteen seventy three, a woman named 319 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 2: Darlene Coppage filed in the local paper in Wellsville, New York. 320 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 2: She filed an action for divorce. Now, this is when 321 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 2: a person has been abandoned by their spouse, and you know, 322 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 2: like a car, if a car is abandoned, you know, 323 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 2: on your property or whatever, and nobody's claiming it. You 324 00:21:58,560 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 2: run an add in the paper for a couple of 325 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 2: weeks or whatever, and if nobody comes and claims it, 326 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 2: well there you go. They'll issue a title to you. 327 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: In this case, if nobody answers this call for a divorce, 328 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 2: you get divorced. And Darlene Coppage has had her feel 329 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 2: she had been abandoned, hadn't seen her husband in a 330 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 2: few years, and that's it. So she filed for divorce 331 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 2: publicly like that. She wanted the marriage to Clyde Coppage 332 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 2: to be dissolved and when a custody of their children, 333 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 2: which happened, Clyde Coppage never answered the ad. By the way, 334 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 2: as we are doing this show today in March of 335 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, Darlinge Coppage is alive. 336 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: Wow, after all these years. 337 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 2: Darlene was legally divorced from her absent husband Clyde. He'd 338 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 2: just run off and left her. That was in nineteen 339 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 2: seventy three. She raised her children, they all went on 340 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 2: with life, just assumed that, Yeah, well Clyde was kind 341 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 2: of a Clyde was kind of a wandering fella. Anyway. 342 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 2: Now they lived in Pennsylvania, Joe, but Clyde worked at 343 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 2: a Kodak factory about ninety miles away. Now do you 344 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 2: remember it was commuting from an area like that? Ninety miles? 345 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 2: Was that a Was that a normal thing in nineteen 346 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 2: seventy I no. 347 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: When I saw that number and they said ninety miles, yeah, 348 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: I was. I was kind of taken aback by that. 349 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, Lord have mercy, that's a long wait. I 350 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: think I think the plant was in Rochester. If I'm not, 351 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken. Yeah, code they were living, they were 352 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: based out of there. 353 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they were living in Pennsylvania, and the drive 354 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 2: was ninety miles. I looked it up because I'm thinking 355 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 2: Clyde and Darlene were married, had kids, and he's he's 356 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 2: thirty five years old driving ninety miles to work. Come on, 357 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 2: you're gonna tell me you couldn't find something better? 358 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: Well, let me Yeah, I know absolutely. I can't imagine 359 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: property values up in Rochester at that moment. We're crippling. 360 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: You know, why didn't you live in closer proximity? Here? 361 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: Can I go back to the wife real quick here? 362 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: Which I'm kind of fascinated by from what we're hearing 363 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: at this point in time, she didn't follow missing person's 364 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: report with the police, which is really super bizarre to me. 365 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: And you know, because I got to tell you the 366 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: fact that a wife that has children at home, she's 367 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 1: married to an individual, I would think she would show 368 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,239 Speaker 1: up with her hair on fire if he had not 369 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: made an appearance at some point in time, getting on 370 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: the rooftops and screaming out at the top of her 371 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: lungs that look, my husband, Clyde Coppage, he ain't come home. 372 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: I'm trying to find him. I'm worried about him or 373 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: what happened to him. You know, at that point, why 374 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: not get the authorities involved? Because I got to tell 375 00:24:55,359 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: you this is kind of just follow me here. If 376 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: that report had been filed, Okay, if that report had 377 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: been filed a missing person's report, even as I hate 378 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: to use the word primitive, but as not as linked 379 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: up as we are today, this is gonna because she 380 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: would have given a physical description at that point in time. 381 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: She would have said, and you know, I've seen pictures 382 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: of him. He's kind of a robust, handsome, strapping looking guy. 383 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: Probably would have given a weight and a height. You know, 384 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: certainly a race, you know, all those sorts of things, 385 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: and he's missing, you know, we need some help here, 386 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: and that was not done and so at least there 387 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: would have been an opportunity to have that physical linkage there, 388 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: but it wasn't. It didn't occur. So the next thing, 389 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: you know, three years down range from him from this body, 390 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: you know, being found out on miss a desolate road, 391 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: she's now filing for a divorce in Abstentia, which is 392 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: you know, just super bizarre. Now, maybe there were, maybe 393 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: there were reasons, but does that go to the social 394 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: history of the victim as well? And that's something that 395 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: I think is, you know, had he you know, down 396 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: here in South we use the term well even run off, 397 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: you know, and that's something that you know, my grandmother's 398 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: generation would say if the you know, the male breadwinner 399 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: doesn't show back up at home. And trust me, there 400 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,120 Speaker 1: have been women that have run off as well over 401 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: the years too, and lead there. 402 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 2: He's just been a story out of North Carolina in 403 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 2: the last six weeks. A woman who left in left 404 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 2: twenty years ago at Christmas time. She left her husband 405 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 2: and children. They thought maybe kidnapped, a murder and just 406 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 2: never found the body. She turns up twenty something years later, 407 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 2: still living in North Carolina, but now across the state. 408 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, she just left. 409 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 2: She just left, and it turns up now, you know. 410 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that does cut both ways. I don't, 411 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: but you know, I just think about that one decision 412 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: that you make all those years ago, because you know, 413 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: that doesn't just affect you, that affects his kids as well. Yeah, 414 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, because now they've gone through their entire life. 415 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: They've gone through their entire life thinking that, well, Daddy, 416 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: they just walked out the door. He didn't care enough 417 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: about us, He just abandoned us. Yeah, but I can 418 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: tell you, I can tell you that, you know right now, 419 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: at this point in time, Dave, we we do in 420 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,959 Speaker 1: fact have an ID. We do know who this individual is. 421 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: And when we tell you what happened, it's amazing that 422 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: they were ever able to find out what the real 423 00:27:52,600 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: identity was. Dave. I've been to Westminster Abbey a couple 424 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: of times, you know, in one of my trips to London, 425 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: and the reason I go back there is I'm amazed 426 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: by the grave sites and I hate to even call 427 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: them grave sites, but the tombs of all of these 428 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: kings that exist inside of this place. And I recommend 429 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,360 Speaker 1: anybody that you know, if you ever take a trip 430 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: over there, you need to make sure that you go 431 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: and visit. Oh and here's one other thing. Let me 432 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: give you a little piece of inside advice. If the 433 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: man standing at the door, and they're generally wearing like 434 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: a red robe, if they say to you, are you 435 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: coming in for a tour? You're coming into worship? Always 436 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: tell them you're coming into worship because if you come 437 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: in for a tour of the charger. So there you go. 438 00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: That's the free of charge. When you see the the links, 439 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: the links to which they went to honor their dead, 440 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: all right, that's that's not what happens in a potter's field, Okay, 441 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: that that just doesn't happen. There have been cases over 442 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: the years where you know, they would, you know, depending 443 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: upon the office, where ground would be trenched out, dave, 444 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: and they would just take the bodies and just kind 445 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: of lay them lay them in there, you know, side 446 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: by side, and generally some kind of really really cheap 447 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: uh coffin. There are actually coffins out there that are 448 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: made out of cardboard, okay, or they're cobbled together out 449 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: of press board. 450 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 2: Uhplid degradeable to the cardboard, and so it goes back 451 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 2: to the earth and there's a whole move benefit going 452 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 2: back to that. 453 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: Now yeah, now, now, But from a forensic standpoint, you know, 454 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: I got to tell you. You know, you're kind of 455 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: scratching your head over this and you're thinking, oh my lord, 456 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, because I got to tell you when they 457 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: buried this fellow's body all those years ago, when they 458 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: put him into a John Doe grave, they would have 459 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: been not using you know, like you know, the titanium 460 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: casket they try to sell you. You know when you 461 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: go there, that's not the one they're using. All right, 462 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: They're going to use the cheapest thing because county is 463 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: paying for this day. And then they're going to they're 464 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: going to go low end on this. 465 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and let me ask you about this because I 466 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 2: know that a lot of times it'll be like you said, 467 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 2: cardboard and sometimes they have a cloth over it to 468 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 2: make it look nicer, but it is very low end. 469 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 2: And when you're burying a body like this Joe, where 470 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 2: the head's been cut off in the hands, does that 471 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 2: impact how fast the body will deteriorate. Will that loss 472 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 2: of a limb or what have you, what do it 473 00:30:58,400 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 2: cause it to happen faster? 474 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it would. It's going to degrade quicker because I 475 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: maybe they did, but I cannot imagine they would have done. Obviously, 476 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: this is a homicide. You can kind of deduce that, 477 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: even though maybe you don't have head trauma visible, but 478 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: you got somebody with their head cut off. You're going 479 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: to do an autopsy, all right. So let's just say 480 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: they do the autopsy, right, and they're going to stitch 481 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: this guy up. The day of the autopsy is not 482 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: going to be the day that they take this individual 483 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: out to Potterfield and bury them. They're going to hang 484 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: onto the body. Now, they would have they would have 485 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: stored him for whatever they're They would have had time 486 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: parameters on this, you know, because in this little location 487 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: you're not going to have like an infinite area to 488 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: store things because you know, you got more cases coming in, 489 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: all right, right, So they would have said, Okay, we're 490 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: going to purge the area back there, and we're going 491 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: to send these bodies out there and we're going to 492 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: have them buried. And generally it's going to be a 493 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: contract with a funeral home, you know, in the county. 494 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: So the county will have a contract set up and 495 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: there'll be a bare minimum amount of money that will 496 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: be paid to that contracting funeral home. Money will exchange hands, 497 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: or they'll get to check at the end of the 498 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: month and say, say they've got three that they're going 499 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: to bury, all right, Well the funeral home will get 500 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: paid per body, all right, And then you know, the 501 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: county is also going to have to cover the backo 502 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: where they're digging the hole. And I don't were these 503 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: bodies actually crypted, you know, did they put you know, 504 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: like the burial crypt in the ground and then put 505 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: this cheap coffin inside of there, or did they just 506 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: put the cheap coffin into the ground directly? All right? 507 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: It all depends on what their level of safety is, 508 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: because I got to tell you, you start bearing coffins 509 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: in the ground, caskets, coffins in the ground if it's 510 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: not crypted in some way. You know, where you've got 511 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: the big box and they put the concrete box where 512 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, the body goes into the concrete box and 513 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: you put a slab over the top of it, and 514 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: then you put dirt. Well, you know, Dave, there's there 515 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: are old graves out there. I had a friend that 516 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: fell through one one time that there is no concrete 517 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: surface to the thing, and so the ground will literally 518 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: collapse in on top of this. So you know, you 519 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: got that working against you. And so the funeral home 520 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: gets paid, the county pays it out. They assign a 521 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: number and a lot number to it. That way you 522 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: can go back if you have to and reference it. 523 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: But you were talking about preservation. I'm sorry, I want 524 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: to kind of far field with that. 525 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 2: But well before we get to that, Joe, Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, 526 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 2: when talking about burying people like that, where somebody has 527 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 2: to be responsible and accountable for what happened to this 528 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 2: body even though it is headless and handles. When we're 529 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 2: doing the story about Michael Jordan's father, yeah, where the 530 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 2: county they didn't have money to store the body. They 531 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 2: had to make a decision. So in that case, they 532 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 2: remove mister Jordan's hands correct. 533 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: Well, at least the at least the fingertips, which is 534 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: something that we commonly do. And so folks know what 535 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: we And I was just having this discussion of my 536 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: class the other day about how we identif because we 537 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,879 Speaker 1: were teaching them at Jack State. We were teaching them 538 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: how to roll how to roll post wartem prints. We 539 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: have what's called a spoon. There's a spoon that you 540 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: use where you put the card into the spin. I 541 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: say spoon. It doesn't look like a spoon that you 542 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: eat soup with or cereal with, but it's stainless steel. 543 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: It's uh, it's it kind of looks like if you 544 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: if you take a metal tube and cut the tube 545 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,720 Speaker 1: down the long axis and you slap the finger into 546 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: the link into the long axis of the tube. There's 547 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: a place at the end where a fingerprint card goes 548 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: and you roll the print on the dead because you 549 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: know the dead can't roll there on print. So and 550 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: then they were saying, well, what else do you do? 551 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: And I was like, well, we would take the fingers 552 00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: and one of the things you do is you go 553 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: the first uncle and there we have a way that 554 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: we snip that off and then we take them and 555 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: inject them with tissue builder and that makes the finger 556 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: because in depth, what happens is the appendages shrivel up 557 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,479 Speaker 1: when you inject with the tissue builder, which funeral homes 558 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,280 Speaker 1: use as well, it begins to swell, and when it swells, 559 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: all of that, all of that does details pop up again. 560 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: You can actually assume them. You can literally roll a 561 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 1: really good print, you know, off of these so. 562 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 2: That with Jordan's with mister Jordan's fingertips or what have you, 563 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 2: and then his body was cremated. 564 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: His body was cremated. 565 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, but in this case, is that a fairly newer 566 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 2: thing that has. 567 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: Chosen well it? Yeah, And I think that some people 568 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: they would be willing and I say people on talk 569 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: about governments, they're willing to county governments. They're willing to 570 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: roll the dice and say, well, we can't afford to 571 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,280 Speaker 1: bear and we'll go ahead and do cremation because cremation 572 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 1: is cheaper. You know, you can't argue that from economics, Dave. 573 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 1: What's fascinating about this case is that apparently, despite having 574 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: been in the ground for over fifty years, they have 575 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 1: viable sample. In spite of the fact that this guy 576 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: is a John Doe and he is not there is 577 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: not the same level of let's just say, memorialization with 578 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: this guy's body as you have with a king in England. 579 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, you've talked about how tough it is 580 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,240 Speaker 2: to get a judge to allow you to exum a body. 581 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 2: Is it different when you're dealing with an unidentified remain 582 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 2: that Hey, we're doing this because we think we can identify. 583 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an excellent question. I don't think that that 584 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: is as tough a hill to climb in this case, 585 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: because I think a judge would see this as well. 586 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: We're you know, we know the corner. The corner has 587 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 1: got an unidentified body. We want to try to help 588 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: the family out here if we have more or technology. 589 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: I don't think it would be as much of an 590 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: uphill climb as say, uh, where you know, you might 591 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 1: have somebody that wants to go in a wild goose chase. 592 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: This is very very specific days. 593 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:19,760 Speaker 2: Okay, So they're able to get everything on their side 594 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 2: to do an actual exhumation, Yep, they find that they 595 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 2: the remains have not totally gone away. And this is 596 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 2: a long. 597 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 1: Time Joe long. 598 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 2: What would you normally expect to see on a casketed 599 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 2: a body that was actually casketed and some money spent 600 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 2: to do that. Would you see a skeleton or would 601 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 2: you what would you find skeletal remains? 602 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: I think at this point, fifty years down fifty plus 603 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: years down range, you're gonna have skeletal remains. Here's the 604 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: key though they had they had enough a robust let 605 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: me put it this way, robust bony prominences. Now normally, normally, 606 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: and I've got a big reveal coming up about authorm 607 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: in just a couple of weeks I'm going to let 608 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: everybody know about. But just so that you understand, normally, 609 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,399 Speaker 1: we would want to have skull because there's certain things 610 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: within skull that we look for, primarily teeth. You ain't 611 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: got teeth here, right, so you're going to have these 612 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: robust bony prominences. Right now, I'm thinking probably the head 613 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: of the femur, which is you know, rather large, you know, 614 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: if you think about where your hip is in that area, 615 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: and they would have bored down into that area to 616 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: try to do an extraction where they could find some 617 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: some vible DNA that they could that they could maybe 618 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: develop a profile out of date. Wow. 619 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 2: So just to realign things on the timeline, bodies found 620 00:38:54,440 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 2: March nineteen seventy nineteen seventy three, Darlene Coppage files for 621 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 2: divorce in absentia from Clyde Coppage. In twenty twenty two, 622 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 2: the body is exhumed for DNA profiling, and but the 623 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 2: help of the FBI, they got it done. 624 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:19,760 Speaker 1: Joe. 625 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 2: From the time they exhumed the body in twenty twenty 626 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 2: two June of twenty twenty two, it took them four 627 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 2: years till we're talking a month ago February of this year, 628 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,800 Speaker 2: they finally identified the human remains that were buried, headless, handless, 629 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 2: and ex carved into his chest. And we now know 630 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 2: that that body belonged to Clyde Coppage, thirty five years 631 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 2: old at the time of his death. So he did 632 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 2: not flee Darlene. He did not abandon his family willfully 633 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 2: and intentionally, although I think she had a pretty good 634 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 2: idea something was wrong. 635 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And you know, again going back to 636 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: social history, I wonder if he would I really wonder 637 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: if he would disappear for long periods of time, you know, 638 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,840 Speaker 1: you know, looking back, you know at the historyonics of 639 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: their relationship. Was he man just just that commute alone 640 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: that we talked about, and we're talking about a tom 641 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: Day where we didn't have all of the improved roads 642 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 1: that we have now, right, we take it for granted 643 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: the roadways that we have now. Due back in nineteen seventy, 644 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 1: it wasn't like that, man, it really wasn't. So you've 645 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: got that to consider. But I find it very interesting here, Dave, 646 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: you mentioned that the FBI was involved. I really, really, 647 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: really wonder if there was an extra spark of motivation 648 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: on the part of the FBI to want to try 649 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 1: to get this body identified. They're going to know the 650 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: way this guy's body found, And what is the FBI traditionally, 651 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: what have they always been involved in organized crime investigation? 652 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:09,320 Speaker 1: I really wonder if if they had information from back 653 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: then that they have gone back and they may be 654 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:17,720 Speaker 1: correlated now they've gone back into you know, whatever crime 655 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: family or organized crime group was involved in that particular area. 656 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: What was it you said early on the cops that said, oh, well, 657 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: yeah there this is a dumping area. Yeah. So if 658 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: it's a dumping area, yeah, I really wonder if there's 659 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,760 Speaker 1: one specific group that was known for dumping bodies there. 660 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: Okay wow? And you know, and again maybe I'm just 661 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I'm just being whimsical about this 662 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 1: or whatever, But I look back and the you know, 663 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: the history guy within me, you know, a crime history 664 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 1: in particular, I'm thinking, is this could this potentially be 665 00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: be on the radar itself. But here's the thing. The 666 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: cool thing about it is, and this is my suspicion, 667 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: this is not going to be some kind of sample 668 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: that was sent down to the Woodlands in outside of Houston, 669 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:16,840 Speaker 1: Texas at Authorm Labs. I think they probably sent multiple bones. 670 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,840 Speaker 1: They may have sent everything they had, and once the 671 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,919 Speaker 1: body had been exhuomed, they packaged this up and they're 672 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: going to send it down, you know, so that they 673 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: can do the sampling themselves. You know, I've told you 674 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: I've tried to describe and I've failed at it miserably. 675 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,359 Speaker 1: I've tried to describe to you what this facility looks like. Uh, 676 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 1: it's space. Ah, and I can't wait to take you. 677 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 1: I think we ought to. I think we ought to 678 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: actually do live recordings, a couple of live recordings from 679 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 1: from their site down there for body bags. We'll just 680 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: fly down there, take our equipment with us, and we'll 681 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: just tape down there because it is really truly something 682 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: fascinating to see. But our friends at Authorm, David Middleman 683 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: and Kristin middleman and their whole team down there has 684 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: have succeeded in getting this man identified after he endured 685 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: certainly what seems like horrible trauma. We don't know about 686 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,319 Speaker 1: the nature of the injuries if any of these were 687 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: anti mortem. Lord, I hope not. I hope that all 688 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: of this dismemberment was post mortem, and that's going to 689 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 1: be significant moving forward, because I got to tell you, Dave, 690 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: I think that this is not necessarily the end of 691 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: an investigation, but it's merely the beginning. Because what have 692 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 1: we said in the past on body backs, every death 693 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: investigation begins with a solid id. If not, you're just 694 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,359 Speaker 1: bumping around the weeds. But listen, if you have an 695 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:54,360 Speaker 1: interest on any level of getting involved with helping folks 696 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 1: get id'd that are out there, Our goal, just like 697 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: David's goal at at authorm, is to get that nameless 698 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 1: list whittled down. And if you want to, if you're interested, 699 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: just go take a look at dnasolves dot com. Take 700 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 1: a look. There are cases that's broken down geographically and 701 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: they're not asking for a fortune, just whatever donation you 702 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 1: can make. You choose a location if it's in your region, 703 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 1: help them out with that case, send a few bucks man. 704 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 1: You never know. You know, they've got to hit a 705 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 1: certain level to flip the switch because this stuff is 706 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,320 Speaker 1: not done on the cheap and they are not government funded. 707 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 1: So if you want to help out, if you truly 708 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,120 Speaker 1: want to be a detective on some level, this is 709 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,239 Speaker 1: how you can get involved. Go in there and you 710 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 1: never have to leave your house. Just send them a 711 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,799 Speaker 1: couple of bucks and maybe maybe those funds that you 712 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: send them will help them, help them find answers and 713 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 1: maybe a conclusion or just like in this case, maybe 714 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 1: a beginning. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybags