WEBVTT - S03 E10: Here is Always Somewhere Else (RERUN)

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, it's Richard mclin smith here. Unfortunately, due to a

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<v Speaker 1>slight bout of illness, I've not been able to get

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<v Speaker 1>this week's episode ready in time. The show will return

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<v Speaker 1>as per normal next week, but in the meantime, here's

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<v Speaker 1>an episode from the vaults. It starts back in the

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen twenties in Delhi, India, when three year old Shanty

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<v Speaker 1>Devi becomes convinced she's lived another life before her parents

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<v Speaker 1>assume it's just a childish game. Today, many consider her

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<v Speaker 1>story to be nothing less than absolute proof of reincarnation.

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<v Speaker 1>This is unexplained Season three episode ten, Here is Always

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<v Speaker 1>Somewhere Else. On January eighteenth, nineteen oh two, in the

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<v Speaker 1>Indian town of Mattaa, ninety miles southeast of Delhi, a

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<v Speaker 1>young couple Yagte and chatterbudge By, celebrate the birth of

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<v Speaker 1>a baby girl. Ten years later, the child, whom they

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<v Speaker 1>named Lugdi, is given up for marriage to a local

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<v Speaker 1>shopkeeper named keddinat Chowbie. After many years of marriage, Lugdi

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<v Speaker 1>fell pregnant, but was devastated to learn only a week

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<v Speaker 1>before she was due to give birth that the baby

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<v Speaker 1>had died. Some years later, by then twenty three, Lugdi

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<v Speaker 1>was overjoyed to discover she was pregnant once more, but

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<v Speaker 1>again there were complications. Fearing for his wife and unborn child,

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<v Speaker 1>Kdinat rushed them to the much better equipped hospital in

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<v Speaker 1>the city of Agra, thirty miles away. It was there

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<v Speaker 1>the next day, on September twenty fifth, nineteen twenty five,

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<v Speaker 1>that Lugdi gave birth to a healthy baby boy named Nabonite.

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<v Speaker 1>For Lugdi, however, the pregnancy had taken a hefty toll.

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<v Speaker 1>She would not live to see the child she had

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<v Speaker 1>brought into the world, dying nine days later. On the

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<v Speaker 1>morning of October fourth, five years later, and roughly six

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<v Speaker 1>hundred miles to the south, in the coastal town of Dandy,

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<v Speaker 1>a gentle looking man, modestly dressed in a pristine white

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<v Speaker 1>doughty and shawl, reaches down into the wet mud at

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<v Speaker 1>his feet, lifting a handful of it into the air.

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<v Speaker 1>He turns to the fifty thousand strong crowd of men

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<v Speaker 1>and women who have waited twenty six days for this

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<v Speaker 1>very moment, and declared, with this, I am shaking the

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<v Speaker 1>foundations of the British Empire. Next, the man filtered salt

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<v Speaker 1>granules from the mud and placed them in a pot

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<v Speaker 1>of boiling sea water. He watched with a smile as

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<v Speaker 1>the water slowly began to evaporate, liberating the salt from

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<v Speaker 1>its bonds, until with the water having all but vanished,

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<v Speaker 1>the salt was all that remained at the bottom of

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<v Speaker 1>the pan. The man was Mahandas Karamchant Gandhi, perhaps better

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<v Speaker 1>known as Mahatma Gandhi. With this powerful, peaceful gesture, Gandhi,

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<v Speaker 1>who had walked for twenty six days to get to

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<v Speaker 1>the coast, had shone a light on a greedy and

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<v Speaker 1>restrictive salt tax that had been imposed on the people

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<v Speaker 1>of India by British colonial powers. As with all empires,

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<v Speaker 1>there comes a time when the ruling powers are no

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<v Speaker 1>longer able to reconcile the myth of their great nation

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<v Speaker 1>with the truth of what it is to sustain it.

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<v Speaker 1>And so it would prove with Great Britons. With Gandhi's

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<v Speaker 1>iconic Salt March proving an irresistible catalyst, opposition to British

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<v Speaker 1>rule among both the local Indian population and the British

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<v Speaker 1>public intensified. Though at the time the empire's Viceroy Lord Irwin,

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<v Speaker 1>equipped that Gandhi's Salt campaign would be unlikely to keep

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<v Speaker 1>him up all night. Only seventeen years later, the Indian

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<v Speaker 1>nation achieved independence. After the Salt March, Gandhi's position as

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<v Speaker 1>a leading statesman and as the head of the Indian

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<v Speaker 1>independence movement had been thoroughly secured. As such, his trust

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<v Speaker 1>and judgment was often sought on a number of wide

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<v Speaker 1>ranging events and incidences, provided they were of sufficient importance.

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<v Speaker 1>None were quite as strange, perhaps as that which was

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<v Speaker 1>presented to him in nineteen thirty five regarding a peculiar

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<v Speaker 1>case of a young girl who claimed to have already

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<v Speaker 1>died ten years previously. You're listening to Unexplained, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Richard McLean Smith. Born in December nineteen twenty six, Shanty

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<v Speaker 1>Devy rarely cried as a baby, despite living in the

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<v Speaker 1>intense bustle of inner city Delhi. Having grown into a

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<v Speaker 1>shy and quiet toddler, it was all the more surprising

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<v Speaker 1>when the young girl became suddenly agitated one afternoon. This

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't her home, she complained to her perplexed mother. My

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<v Speaker 1>house was much bigger, she said. Shanty's mother naturally assuming

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<v Speaker 1>her daughter to be playing a game, did her best

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<v Speaker 1>to ignore her strange proclamations. It was far harder, however,

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<v Speaker 1>for her to ignore Shanty's insistence that she wasn't her

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<v Speaker 1>mother at all. Her real mother lived in the city

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<v Speaker 1>of Mattra, over ninety miles away, as did her husband

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<v Speaker 1>and sisters. For the next year, Shanty continued to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about another life, claiming that her name was in fact Lugdi.

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<v Speaker 1>One evening, at the dinner table, after her mother had

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<v Speaker 1>dished out the food, Shanty screwed up her face and

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<v Speaker 1>pushed her plate away. It isn't right to eat animals,

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<v Speaker 1>she said, I won't do it. The now four year

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<v Speaker 1>old Shanty went on to explain that she and her

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<v Speaker 1>husband only ate sat for food, a group of foods

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<v Speaker 1>that pertained to the Hindu modes of existence, consisting only

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<v Speaker 1>of meat free, energy enriching foods. Only Shanty's parents weren't Hindus,

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<v Speaker 1>nor could they fathom how a four year old child

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<v Speaker 1>could have learnt such a thing. A few years later,

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<v Speaker 1>with Shanty showing no sign of dropping the charade, she

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<v Speaker 1>explained blankly one morning that she had died giving birth

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<v Speaker 1>to a child, and that she wanted to see her

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<v Speaker 1>husband again. But when Shanty's mother asked who he was,

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<v Speaker 1>she would say only that when she knew him, he

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<v Speaker 1>sold fabrics and that he owned a shop near the

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<v Speaker 1>Duar Kadije temple in Matra. Though Shanty's parents try to

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<v Speaker 1>reassure themselves that their daughter's behavior is only a phase,

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<v Speaker 1>it is hard not to be concerned. It is said

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<v Speaker 1>in the Vedic Scriptures, the most sacred text of Hinduism,

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<v Speaker 1>that any child who could remember a past life was

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<v Speaker 1>destined to die young. Growing increasingly unsettled, Shanty's parents forbade

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<v Speaker 1>her from talking any more about her past life, but

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<v Speaker 1>Shanty never lost sight of her dream to return to

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<v Speaker 1>her long lost family in Matura. It was some time

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen thirty five that Babu Bhushan Chand first heard

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<v Speaker 1>about Shanty's strange obsession. Chand was a teacher at Shanty's

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<v Speaker 1>school in the Daria Gang district of Delhi. Being a

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<v Speaker 1>relative also, he couldn't help but be intrigued. After overhearing

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<v Speaker 1>the now eight year old girl telling yet another friend

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<v Speaker 1>how she needed to find a way to get to

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<v Speaker 1>Matura to visit her husband, determined to see if Shanty

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<v Speaker 1>was telling the truth. Chand demanded that she tell him

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<v Speaker 1>the name of her husband. She refused. Chand offered to

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<v Speaker 1>take her to matter himself if she would only give

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<v Speaker 1>him his name. The young girl hesitated, explaining that it

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<v Speaker 1>would not be correct to speak his name, but finally relented.

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<v Speaker 1>She gestured for Chand to bend down and whispered it

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<v Speaker 1>into his ear, ca denat Choubi, but that wasn't all.

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<v Speaker 1>She knew his address as well. Before rushing off to

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<v Speaker 1>visit the man, Chand suggested they write him a letter

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<v Speaker 1>first to see if he can help verify her claims. Together,

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<v Speaker 1>they composed it, putting in everything that Shanty had said

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<v Speaker 1>that she was once married to a man named Choubi

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<v Speaker 1>who had owned a fabric shop near the Dewa Kadish

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<v Speaker 1>temple in Mattera. She added also that one of their

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<v Speaker 1>homes was painted yellow and that she believed her name

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<v Speaker 1>to be Lugdi. After posting the letter, Chand waited for

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<v Speaker 1>almost two weeks before finally receiving a reply. I did

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<v Speaker 1>have a wife who died named Lugdi, it said, and

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<v Speaker 1>I have a shop very close to the Duwa Kadish

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<v Speaker 1>temple and my name is Kennedat Chaubi in matterra Kedanat

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<v Speaker 1>had barely slept since first receiving Shanty's letter. Having sent

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<v Speaker 1>his reply to chand he contacted a cousin, Pandit Kanjamaal,

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<v Speaker 1>who lived in Delhi, and asked him to visit Shanty

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<v Speaker 1>and her parents on his behalf A few days later,

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<v Speaker 1>an astounded Pandit sat with the young girl and her

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<v Speaker 1>parents as she detailed the layout and location of the

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<v Speaker 1>house that Lugdi used to live in with his cousin,

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<v Speaker 1>also describing perfectly the streets close to it that she

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<v Speaker 1>had worn many times before. When she asked about the

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<v Speaker 1>health of her son, a stunned Pandit can only mutter

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<v Speaker 1>that he is doing well. When Kadinat's cousin bids farewell

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<v Speaker 1>to Shanty later that evening, it is with the absolute

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<v Speaker 1>conviction that he had just spoken to Kdenat's deceased wife.

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<v Speaker 1>The following day, he traveled to his cousin's home to

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<v Speaker 1>deliver the incredible news. It was only a few days later,

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<v Speaker 1>on November twelfth, that Pandit returned to Shanty's home along

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<v Speaker 1>with Kdinat and his new wife, as well as ten

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<v Speaker 1>year old Nabonite, the son that Lugti had died after

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<v Speaker 1>giving birth to. When they arrived, Shanty's mother, who was

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<v Speaker 1>clearly troubled by the situation, was there to greet them

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<v Speaker 1>at the door, explained that Shanty had not yet returned

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<v Speaker 1>from school, but invited them inside, none the less to

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<v Speaker 1>sit and wait for her. When the young girl returned

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<v Speaker 1>home half an hour later, it had been decided that

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<v Speaker 1>they would try and catch her out, having been informed

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<v Speaker 1>that more people had come to speak to her about

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<v Speaker 1>her supposed past life. Shanty was led into the living

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<v Speaker 1>room and introduced to a few of the guests, including Kadenat,

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<v Speaker 1>who was introduced as an older brother of Lugdi's, but

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<v Speaker 1>Shanty was confused. No, she said, that is my husband.

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<v Speaker 1>Walking straight up to him, she bowed her head and

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<v Speaker 1>stood by his side, as was customary for the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Kdinat could only stare at, dumbstruck at the strangely confident

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<v Speaker 1>little girl stood beside him. A moment later, Nabonite was

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<v Speaker 1>shown into the room. At the sight of the young boy,

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<v Speaker 1>Shanty's eyes widened and began to well up. She rushed

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<v Speaker 1>toward him and hugged him tightly. My son, she cried,

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<v Speaker 1>you were my son. Immediately, Shanty turned to her mother

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<v Speaker 1>and asked her for all her toys to be brought

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<v Speaker 1>for the young boy, but she refused as she tried

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<v Speaker 1>to comprehend what exactly was happening before her. Shanty eventually

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<v Speaker 1>gathered them up herself and offered them to the boy. Later,

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<v Speaker 1>Shanty's parents watched their daughter leave the house with the

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<v Speaker 1>chowbees with the creeping sensation that maybe she hadn't been

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<v Speaker 1>making everything up after all. That afternoon, having taken a

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<v Speaker 1>trip round the city with Kedanat's family, it was said

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<v Speaker 1>that Shanty held on to Nabonite's hand the entire time.

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<v Speaker 1>That evening, the two families gathered again to talk, but

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<v Speaker 1>something was ailing the young girl. She couldn't stop staring

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<v Speaker 1>at the jewelry on the arm of Kadenat's wife. It

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<v Speaker 1>was as if she recognized it. You promised you would

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<v Speaker 1>never marry again, she said, turning suddenly to Kdenat. The

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<v Speaker 1>man's eyes turned to the floor. Sensing the awkward shift

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<v Speaker 1>in the mood, Shanty's father asked his daughter to talk

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<v Speaker 1>more about the house she had apparently lived in when

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<v Speaker 1>she was lookedy. The young girl's eyes lit up as

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<v Speaker 1>she recounted the place in great detail, including how she

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<v Speaker 1>loved to bathe and relax by the well located in

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of a grand courtyard in the center of

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<v Speaker 1>the property. Her apparent recollections drawing tears from Kadenat's eyes

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<v Speaker 1>at the memories. It was late evening when the Chowbee

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<v Speaker 1>family left the house, though Shanty was inconsolable. Together, they

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<v Speaker 1>promised to make arrangements to meet again. It wasn't long

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<v Speaker 1>before Shanti's extraordinary story reached the media and in turn,

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<v Speaker 1>Mahatma Gandhi. It has been alleged that Gandhi's interest in

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<v Speaker 1>the story stemmed as much from political motives as it

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<v Speaker 1>did from personal interest, being as it was an apparent

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<v Speaker 1>vindication of the Hindu belief system. Nevertheless, his involvement was

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<v Speaker 1>hugely significant. Having now met Kdinat, Shanty had only grown

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<v Speaker 1>more determined to visit her apparent former home in Mattera,

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<v Speaker 1>But every reference to her past life as Lugdi was

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<v Speaker 1>just one more break in the hearts of Shanty's parents,

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<v Speaker 1>who feared their daughter might be lost for ever if

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<v Speaker 1>they agreed to let her go. It was Gandhy who

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<v Speaker 1>finally convinced them to let whatever her destiny might be

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<v Speaker 1>play out. Such was the farraw surrounding the story. Gandhi

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<v Speaker 1>also organized for a committee of journalists and government ministers

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<v Speaker 1>to accompany the young girl to Matter to determine for

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<v Speaker 1>themselves whether her claims were true or not. And so

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<v Speaker 1>it was that on November twenty fourth, Shanty and her

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<v Speaker 1>family boarded a train to Matterra, escorted by Gandhy's committee,

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<v Speaker 1>which included among them, the respected Member of Parliament Deshpandu Goupta.

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<v Speaker 1>That cool morning, as the train trundled through a green

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<v Speaker 1>and dusty countryside and a warm, pink haze settled across

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<v Speaker 1>the land, a quiet eight year old girl gazed absent

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<v Speaker 1>mindedly out of the window, dreaming of a former life.

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<v Speaker 1>Having arrived at Mattera station. As the committee disembark, a

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<v Speaker 1>crowd of thousands are there to greet them, all desperate

0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.120
<v Speaker 1>to see the miracle child. As Shanty is led from

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:18.040
<v Speaker 1>the train, the crowd surges forward and a middle aged

0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:23.679
<v Speaker 1>man steps into her path. Shanty stops after taking a

0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.800
<v Speaker 1>moment to look up at the man. She bows down

0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.600
<v Speaker 1>and touches his feet. Before the man can say anything,

0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:37.360
<v Speaker 1>Shanty is already back up. Baboo Ramchaubi. She says hello.

0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.560
<v Speaker 1>The man cracks a wide smile and turning back to

0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:44.600
<v Speaker 1>the crowd, hushes them away to give the child and

0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.359
<v Speaker 1>the committee room to get through. As they push on

0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.119
<v Speaker 1>to the front of the station, one of the committee

0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.920
<v Speaker 1>asks Shanty who the man is, to which she replies,

0:17:55.800 --> 0:18:01.040
<v Speaker 1>he is my husband's brother. Outside, the girl is led

0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.520
<v Speaker 1>into a tanger, a small horse and cart, where she

0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:09.119
<v Speaker 1>is joined by Dshbandu Gupta and another committee member, with

0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:15.880
<v Speaker 1>the others arranging to follow on behind. Much to Gupta's surprise, Shanty,

0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.960
<v Speaker 1>who has never been to matter before, wastes no time

0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.680
<v Speaker 1>in instructing the driver on where to go, telling him

0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:28.280
<v Speaker 1>to look out for a yellow house. As they make

0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.760
<v Speaker 1>their way through the streets, Shanty points out all the

0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:35.320
<v Speaker 1>places she remembers and the ones that have changed since

0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:40.199
<v Speaker 1>Lugdi's time, all of which the astonished driver confirms to

0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:45.040
<v Speaker 1>be true. Turning into one street flanked by a large,

0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:49.800
<v Speaker 1>colorful building fronted by a series of delicate arches, Shanty

0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.240
<v Speaker 1>points out the duwak at each temple, and on the

0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:57.959
<v Speaker 1>other side of the street the shop where her husband worked.

0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.199
<v Speaker 1>Reaching a crossroads. A short time later, she asks the

0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:06.840
<v Speaker 1>driver to pull over. But I don't understand, she says,

0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.199
<v Speaker 1>as she steps down from the cart. It's supposed to

0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:16.280
<v Speaker 1>be yellow. The committee members exchange concerned glances as they

0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.679
<v Speaker 1>follow the young girl across the road toward a decidedly

0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:24.840
<v Speaker 1>white house. Though the colour is wrong, the large crowd

0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.439
<v Speaker 1>of people gathered outside suggests they have indeed come to

0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:33.720
<v Speaker 1>the right place. Shanty points out two men standing by

0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.680
<v Speaker 1>the entrance as her brother and the brother of her

0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.240
<v Speaker 1>father in law, who both greet her warmly before leading

0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:47.080
<v Speaker 1>her inside. Moving from room to room, Shanty amazes everyone

0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.960
<v Speaker 1>with her apparent recollection of how the house had been

0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:55.280
<v Speaker 1>set up when Lugdi had lived there. However, one committee

0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:59.919
<v Speaker 1>member is unconvinced. After all, wasn't the house of her

0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:04.080
<v Speaker 1>to be yellow, but it was explained one of the

0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:08.440
<v Speaker 1>new residents it had been painted over after Lugdi had

0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:21.280
<v Speaker 1>died that afternoon. As the crowds continue to grow, the

0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 1>eight year old girl from Delhi is hoisted onto the

0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:28.040
<v Speaker 1>shoulders of one of the committee members before effortlessly guiding

0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.960
<v Speaker 1>them all to the next property. It is the last

0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:36.879
<v Speaker 1>place that Lugdi had lived and Cadenat's current home. She

0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.720
<v Speaker 1>is especially pleased to find him waiting there for her

0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:46.480
<v Speaker 1>when she arrives. After being led inside once again, Shanty

0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.760
<v Speaker 1>seems able to recall the layout of the house, but

0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:55.040
<v Speaker 1>when she moved into the courtyard. Something is wrong the well,

0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.800
<v Speaker 1>says one of the committee members. You said there was

0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.320
<v Speaker 1>a well here that used to bathe beside, but there

0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:08.119
<v Speaker 1>is not. Without uttering a word, Kedanat walks into the

0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:11.399
<v Speaker 1>middle of the square and pulls up a large paving slab,

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:16.280
<v Speaker 1>inviting the committee members to have a look underneath. It

0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.800
<v Speaker 1>was the well the family had paved over it only

0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:25.239
<v Speaker 1>a few years ago. Later, having moved up to one

0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:29.120
<v Speaker 1>of the bedrooms on the second floor, Shanty lets out

0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:34.000
<v Speaker 1>a short gasp. I remember something, she exclaims, turning to

0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.760
<v Speaker 1>the group under the floor. I hid a money box

0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:42.040
<v Speaker 1>full of savings for a special occasion just there, she says,

0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 1>pointing to the floor. One of the group pushes at

0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:51.080
<v Speaker 1>the spot and finds the floorboard to be loose. He

0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:54.440
<v Speaker 1>pulls it up and, to the amazement of all, reveals

0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.680
<v Speaker 1>a small rusted tin nestled in the space below it.

0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:05.640
<v Speaker 1>The tin was, however, the girl, disappointed, turns to Kdenat,

0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:10.160
<v Speaker 1>who can only apologize he had found it some time

0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:13.760
<v Speaker 1>after Lugdi had died and spent the money on himself.

0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:20.320
<v Speaker 1>Satisfied they had seen enough for the day, Shanty made

0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:25.080
<v Speaker 1>one more request that they visit the River Yamuna, where

0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:28.639
<v Speaker 1>as Lugdi, she had apparently also enjoyed spending lots of

0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:33.680
<v Speaker 1>her time. After a short ride to the river, Shanty's parents,

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.840
<v Speaker 1>who had endured so much, already watched with a strange

0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:42.000
<v Speaker 1>uncertainty as their young daughter gazed out across the water.

0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Suddenly she was running fast along the bank toward a

0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:52.000
<v Speaker 1>house in the distance. As the committee members tried desperately

0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:55.440
<v Speaker 1>to keep up, they were relieved to see Shanty stopping

0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:58.880
<v Speaker 1>outside another home, where a small crowd of people had

0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:04.320
<v Speaker 1>gathered to meet her. It was Lugdi's parents house, and

0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.600
<v Speaker 1>there standing at the front where Yagti and chatterboush by

0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:15.720
<v Speaker 1>Lukedi's parents themselves. Shanty already had tears in her eyes

0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:20.399
<v Speaker 1>as she approached the elderly couple. When her parents arrived

0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:31.359
<v Speaker 1>moments later, Yagti invited them into the house. As the

0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:35.440
<v Speaker 1>congregation of committee members and Lugdi's family sat and talked,

0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.480
<v Speaker 1>the young girl's parents can only watch with increasing dread

0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:43.919
<v Speaker 1>as their daughter, now sitting in Yagti's lap, continued to

0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:48.440
<v Speaker 1>amaze everyone with her supposed recollections of her life as Lugdi.

0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:53.560
<v Speaker 1>But although Shanty seems elated to be with her old

0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:57.679
<v Speaker 1>family again, she is equally struck by a deep melancholy.

0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:02.840
<v Speaker 1>Turning to Lukedie's mother, she asks, why did he not

0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:08.480
<v Speaker 1>keep bringing me flowers like you promised? Just like with Kedanat,

0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Yakti can only apologize, holding the girl tighter in her

0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:18.040
<v Speaker 1>arms as she wipes their tears away. Then comes the

0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:22.800
<v Speaker 1>moment that Shanty's mother had been most dreading. It was

0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:27.120
<v Speaker 1>clear that a decision had to be made. Both Lukdi's

0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:31.120
<v Speaker 1>family and the Chowbees were far more wealthy than Shanty's parents,

0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:35.760
<v Speaker 1>not to mention of a higher caste, and if it

0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:40.280
<v Speaker 1>was true that this place really was her home, would

0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.200
<v Speaker 1>it be wrong to deny her the opportunity to live here?

0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:47.879
<v Speaker 1>Yakti suggests the only fair thing to do is to

0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:54.639
<v Speaker 1>ask Shanty herself what she wants. Shanty's mother reluctantly agrees,

0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:58.480
<v Speaker 1>taking her daughter by the hand and trying not to

0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:04.600
<v Speaker 1>cry as she asks her the devastating question. All in

0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:07.359
<v Speaker 1>the room are silent as they watched the little girl

0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:13.719
<v Speaker 1>think on her decision. Then, after a moment's pause, she

0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:17.960
<v Speaker 1>turns to Luhdi's parents, embraces them one after the other,

0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:23.160
<v Speaker 1>and asks for forgiveness, telling them quietly through her tears

0:25:23.720 --> 0:25:28.840
<v Speaker 1>that she had another family. Now, turning back to her parents,

0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:32.600
<v Speaker 1>Shanty took them each by the hand and led them

0:25:32.840 --> 0:25:38.720
<v Speaker 1>out of the house. That evening, Shanty Deviy returned to

0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:44.159
<v Speaker 1>Delhi with her mother and father, escorted by Gandhi's committee members.

0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:47.679
<v Speaker 1>None were in any doubt that the child they had

0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:52.720
<v Speaker 1>taken to Matterer was nothing less than the reincarnation of Lukdibai,

0:25:53.160 --> 0:26:04.240
<v Speaker 1>the young mother who had tragically died over a decade ago.

0:26:04.600 --> 0:26:07.840
<v Speaker 1>In April the following year, a nine year old Shanty

0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:12.000
<v Speaker 1>is taken back to Mattera by another group, this time

0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:16.440
<v Speaker 1>led by prominent journalist since Nihal Singh and the psychologist

0:26:16.680 --> 0:26:21.159
<v Speaker 1>doctor Indra sen Again, the girl's claims are put to

0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:25.960
<v Speaker 1>the test, with varying degrees of success. Both men returned

0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:31.960
<v Speaker 1>to Delhi convinced that her extraordinary claims were true. A

0:26:31.960 --> 0:26:36.200
<v Speaker 1>few weeks later, doctor Senne arranged for Shanty to undergo

0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:39.959
<v Speaker 1>a process of hypnotic regression where she is alleged to

0:26:40.000 --> 0:26:44.080
<v Speaker 1>have documented Lugdibai's journey from death to the moment of

0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:50.720
<v Speaker 1>her rebirth before later becoming the child Shanty Devi. Soon

0:26:50.760 --> 0:26:56.560
<v Speaker 1>after this session, doctor Sen learned something else. Although it

0:26:56.640 --> 0:27:00.320
<v Speaker 1>was true that Shanty had never been to Matterer, not

0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:04.480
<v Speaker 1>only had Lugdi's husband kedinat Chowby been to Delhi a

0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:08.000
<v Speaker 1>number of times. One of the places he visited most

0:27:08.000 --> 0:27:13.359
<v Speaker 1>frequently was a fabric shop directly opposite Shanty's family home,

0:27:14.720 --> 0:27:17.879
<v Speaker 1>and he had done so since Shanty was only a baby.

0:27:20.880 --> 0:27:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Either way, for the rest of her life, Shanty Devy,

0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:29.119
<v Speaker 1>who had become a highly qualified teacher, never wavered in

0:27:29.160 --> 0:27:33.760
<v Speaker 1>her belief that she had lived a previous life. She

0:27:33.800 --> 0:27:36.639
<v Speaker 1>would eventually die at the age of sixty one in

0:27:36.760 --> 0:27:41.159
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty seven, having never married out of respect for

0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:53.000
<v Speaker 1>her apparent former husband. This episode was written by Richard

0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:57.480
<v Speaker 1>mc lean Smith unexplained as an Avy Club Productions podcast

0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:01.440
<v Speaker 1>created by Richard mc lean Smith. All other elements of

0:28:01.520 --> 0:28:04.919
<v Speaker 1>the podcast, including the music, are also produced by me.

0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:10.240
<v Speaker 1>Richard mclin Smith unexplained the book and audiobook with stories

0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:13.240
<v Speaker 1>never before featured on the show, is now available to

0:28:13.320 --> 0:28:18.640
<v Speaker 1>buy worldwide. You can purchase from Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Waterstones,

0:28:18.680 --> 0:28:22.520
<v Speaker 1>and other bookstores. Please subscribe to and rate the show

0:28:22.840 --> 0:28:25.760
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0:28:25.760 --> 0:28:29.160
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0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:32.000
<v Speaker 1>you've heard on the show. Perhaps you have an explanation

0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:34.680
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0:28:34.720 --> 0:28:38.239
<v Speaker 1>out more at Unexplained podcast dot com and reach us

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<v Speaker 1>online through Twitter at Unexplained Pod and Facebook at Facebook

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