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Speaker 1: Oh boy, Welcome back, Pardner to Behind the Bastards the

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Speaker 1: Cowboy podcast talking about John Wayne who is about to

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Speaker 1: get his first he's just had his first role on screen. Um,

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Speaker 1: and he's about to get his first cowboy job. So

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Speaker 1: he's he's he's he gets on a gig on a

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Speaker 1: film as a as a prop boy. Yet again with

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Speaker 1: his dude role. Walsh, this director and his apparently the

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Speaker 1: thing that gets him his first cowboy job is Walsh

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Speaker 1: catches a glimpse of Marian while he's carrying furniture across

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Speaker 1: the sound stage. He's again he's huge and very strong.

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Speaker 1: So he has this like reputation for people just like

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Speaker 1: pick up a couch when that needs to be moved

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Speaker 1: and just like walk it as on his own, like

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Speaker 1: across the stage or something. And so Roll sees this

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Speaker 1: big showed of a dude just kind of man handling furniture. Um,

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Speaker 1: and he feels that like Marian has a warm and

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Speaker 1: wholesome expression on his face. Uh. Quote. I stopped and watched.

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Speaker 1: I noticed the fine physique of the boy, his careless

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Speaker 1: strength and the grace of his movement. Um. Now is

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Speaker 1: this another forward situation for sure? But are we grooming

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Speaker 1: hashtag Disney grooming. I mean, I think what you've got

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Speaker 1: here is a dude whose job it is. Like any director,

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Speaker 1: this obviously gets problematic a lot of the time, but

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Speaker 1: as a director you should be able to let you

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Speaker 1: should be looking and appreciating the way people move and look.

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Speaker 1: That is part of like your gig is to be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I like the way that motherfucker moves. Just appreciate the

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Speaker 1: human form. Yeah, there's a creepy way for that, but

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Speaker 1: in this case it doesn't seem to be creepy. Although

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Speaker 1: I should state John Wayne's opinion is that this is

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Speaker 1: not the first time Walsh saw him and decided like

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Speaker 1: he looked good. John Wayne's later opinion is that Walsh

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Speaker 1: saw him at a Fox Company nick when he was

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Speaker 1: super hungover and engaged in a walking contest, which he

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Speaker 1: barely won because everybody was still pretty drunk. Um. Whatever

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Speaker 1: the case, why did he always has to make these

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Speaker 1: back stories of like no, actually, like I beat him

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Speaker 1: at arm wrestling. That's how we first met. I checked

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Speaker 1: his ass and then you give me a part and

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Speaker 1: I was like, this part sucks. It is one of

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Speaker 1: those things. He's a liar, so I wouldn't be surprised

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Speaker 1: about that, although I don't feel like barely one a

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Speaker 1: walking contest while drunk is particularly cool either. That's true.

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Speaker 1: That's true, so who knows. Um, but his story is

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Speaker 1: very much tall privilege. You can't be a six three

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Speaker 1: brawny man hanging around a film set is not going

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Speaker 1: to get noticed doing any of the same stuff. No,

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Speaker 1: um he is. He is again like being a tall

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Speaker 1: white guy is the easy mode of life. It is.

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Speaker 1: There's so many things you can you can get out

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Speaker 1: of just by being a tall white dude. It's incredible. Um.

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Speaker 1: So Marian he Walsh is like, I like to look

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Speaker 1: at this kid. I want to make him a Cowboys star.

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Speaker 1: Uh and he he puts Marian through screen testing, which

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Speaker 1: is like where they put you on camera to decide

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Speaker 1: if you actually do look good on camera, and he

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Speaker 1: does so they cast him as the star of of

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Speaker 1: an upcoming film, um, which more than doubles his pay overnight.

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Speaker 1: But it's clear, however, that he's gonna need a new name.

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Speaker 1: Marian Morrison definitely not a cowboy actor name. Duke is

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Speaker 1: that's starlet name though, Like that's a oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Marion Morrison. Yeah, absolutely a great leading female name, but

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Speaker 1: not not good for a cowboy actor in the twenties.

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Speaker 1: Still not cutting in. They decide not. They decide he

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Speaker 1: needs an even better name than Duke Morrison, and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna quote from Scott I'm in here. Roll Walsh claimed

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Speaker 1: that he came up with a name Wayne, and that

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Speaker 1: she Hand, who's another person involved in the film's production,

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Speaker 1: added John, but Duke said that the whole thing was

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Speaker 1: she Hands. I Sheehan was a fan of Mad Anthony Wayne,

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Speaker 1: the Revolutionary War general, because he had been tough and

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Speaker 1: a nonconformist. The John seems to have been an afterthought,

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Speaker 1: but it worked. Gave the two halves of the name

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Speaker 1: the equivalence of two blocks of granite that miraculously fit together.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things Wayne will later say that

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Speaker 1: I think it's true is that it kind of works

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Speaker 1: as a single thing you call him like John Wayne

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Speaker 1: is a single name on its own, Like it's not

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Speaker 1: something you split up in your head. And that's part

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Speaker 1: of why it's so it became so iconic. Um So

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Speaker 1: obviously they picked this name for him, which is I

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Speaker 1: think objectively a good decision. You can't argue with the results. Um,

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Speaker 1: Wayne John's not you'd call him Wayne or John's, but

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't call him Wayne John's. Yeah, Wayne, Wayne John fails.

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Speaker 1: Wayne John can't lift a couch. Terrible name. Absolutely not. No, No,

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Speaker 1: Wayne John is not a chod John Wayne hardcore chowed.

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Speaker 1: I love I love your interpret like your definition of

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Speaker 1: chowed because very different than I think what my understanding

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Speaker 1: of the word showed is, which is like a short

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Speaker 1: dick I have I have chosen, I have taken it

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Speaker 1: from the show. I think you should leave so as

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Speaker 1: I do every single thing I say. Look, I love that.

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Speaker 1: So Fox, you know, they change this guy's name. Um,

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Speaker 1: and when they do their press releases and stuff. In

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Speaker 1: the movie he's going to be in the big trail.

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Speaker 1: They have to like come up with a backstory for him,

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Speaker 1: and they just lie all the time in these right,

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Speaker 1: Like they don't give a ship what your actual backstory is.

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Speaker 1: Fox is going to make up whatever it seems best.

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Speaker 1: So they decided to say that his birth name was

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Speaker 1: Wayne Morrison, which for whatever reason sounded better for them

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Speaker 1: than the truth. Um, and John's fine with this. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't fight back. His museum states quote it was okay

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Speaker 1: with him. If the people paying his salary wanted to

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Speaker 1: spruce up his name, Um, which is reasonable as a

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Speaker 1: poor kid. If somebody's like, hey, we can make you

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Speaker 1: rich and famous, but you gotta pick a different fuck it.

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Speaker 1: I don't give a ship. Call me whatever. You can

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Speaker 1: call iced Tea, I don't. Yeah. Yeah, so please take

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Speaker 1: that name away from she took the only good name

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Speaker 1: I had. Give a good name to my fucking brother.

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Speaker 1: But that's crazy that you're not only invincing like a

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Speaker 1: stage name, but you're like even your given name is

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Speaker 1: not tough enough. You can't let people know you were

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Speaker 1: ever called Marian. You're not going to buy that, absolutely not.

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Speaker 1: So the Big Trail is not a good shoot. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's what you might call a problem. Um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, you know you You've you've been on some sets,

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Speaker 1: Francesca Um, probably more than me, certainly more than may Im.

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Speaker 1: And I guess, uh so you tell me how normal

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Speaker 1: this all sounds. I mean I've uggled them. Yeah, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I guess I've been on like a set or two.

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Speaker 1: What's up? Yeah? So the cast and crew had to

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Speaker 1: travel out to Huma, Arizona, and Duke now John Wayne

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Speaker 1: shows up on set drunk and he stays that way

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Speaker 1: for days. Um, he gets horrible diarrhea instantly, he gets

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Speaker 1: sick from the water and he can barely function, and

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Speaker 1: he's almost immediately like both so sick that he can't

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Speaker 1: walk and still drinking. Um, so this is his first

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Speaker 1: start and this is his first starring. Row shows up

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Speaker 1: hammered and then start shooting himself. Amazing, incredible, unbelievable. Is

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Speaker 1: that where he gets his actual cowboy walk known only

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Speaker 1: the lead but sort of the wide leg, like I

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Speaker 1: just shot my past. I don't want to smear this

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Speaker 1: too much. Yeah. Um so ironized Cody, the Italian man

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Speaker 1: who pretended to be a Native American person, takes care

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Speaker 1: of John Wayne during this period when he's got deadly diarrhea,

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Speaker 1: and Jensen, the biographer claims quote gave him various Indian

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Speaker 1: remedies for diarrhea. Now again, iron eyed Cody not an

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Speaker 1: indigenous person, so God only knows. He's just spoon feeding him. Basta.

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Speaker 1: It was just just a little molla. He is a

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Speaker 1: classic food of the planes. Uppa settles the stomach every time.

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Speaker 1: It's like, well that's some I don't understand magic. But

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Speaker 1: thank you, Cody. He just smacked him. Yeah, he's literally

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Speaker 1: just cooking a pizza and enough and everybody's like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, look at his hes. Not whiskey is not

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Speaker 1: a meal. Um. So, after, in Cody's words, quote, puking

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Speaker 1: and crapping blood for a week, the director of the film, Walsh,

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Speaker 1: is forced to shoot the movie around his star, who

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Speaker 1: was actively dying at this point. He loses like eighteen

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Speaker 1: pounds in a couple of weeks. So again, despite the

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Speaker 1: fact that he is pooping himself to death, he does

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Speaker 1: not quit drinking all day every day. Jensen writes that

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Speaker 1: this was partly a factor of him wanting to show

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Speaker 1: up all of the other drunk people on set. Quote,

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Speaker 1: he had to show these self important actors that he

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Speaker 1: was as manly as they were. He drank like crazy,

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Speaker 1: which prolonged his dysentery. Nothing more manly than shooting your

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Speaker 1: pants on a set. That is that is what shows

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Speaker 1: you're tough, pooping yourself to death because you drink so much.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's how Johnny Depp got into character for

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Speaker 1: Pirates of the Caribbeans. That is actually accurate. Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: it is also how Johnny Depp got in the character

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Speaker 1: for being Johnny Depp. Yes, every day, it's just rings

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Speaker 1: and shipping his pants. Yeah, exactly, That's that's really all

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Speaker 1: he needs. So iron eyed Cody recalled that one night

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Speaker 1: the drinking got completely out of hand. Uh, the Apaches

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Speaker 1: hired to work on the film, got really wasted and

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Speaker 1: decided to attack the settlers. Um. They raced into location

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Speaker 1: set on their horses, drunkenly firing arrows into the wagons,

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Speaker 1: the town set, and even the tents in which some

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Speaker 1: of the cast and crew were sleeping. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea if any of these guys were

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Speaker 1: actually Apache. If they're just cast that way, it's probably

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Speaker 1: a mix. Like a lot of them are probably like Cody,

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Speaker 1: just like Italian dude, Like who knows, Um, it is

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Speaker 1: Hollywood in the twenties. Um. So Cody wakes John Wayne

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Speaker 1: up to warn him that, like, hey, a bunch of

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Speaker 1: the crew were shooting arrows at other people. Like it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a big mess. As it heads up, there's

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Speaker 1: like an arrow fight going on on set. Um, And

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Speaker 1: he sees that Duke is like too drunk to like

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Speaker 1: know what's going on. So Cody sees these these actors

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Speaker 1: on horses coming and he decides, well, I might as

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Speaker 1: well join them. So he gets on his horse and

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Speaker 1: just start shooting arrows at the set and apparently Duke

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Speaker 1: just keeps lying down and drinking the entire time. Um,

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Speaker 1: so that's fun. That sounds like a fun filming set

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Speaker 1: to do. Oh the Golden years of Hollywood. Like this

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Speaker 1: guy can't even get up, No he's not. Like half

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Speaker 1: the set is like drunk and pretending to be indigenous

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Speaker 1: and shooting arrows at the other half of the set. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then the star are is drunken, shifting his pants

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Speaker 1: on on the floor. Just grown up cowboys and Indians. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: grown up seems like too strong a term. Yeah. Um

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Speaker 1: it's a bunch of seven year olds with access to

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Speaker 1: liquor and real arrows. Yeah. Yeah, So the studio is

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Speaker 1: not psyched with their big star. This is not a

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Speaker 1: great first performance. You know, even in the thirties, you

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Speaker 1: wanted a guy who, for example, could hold off on

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Speaker 1: the being an alcoholic long enough to make the movie. Um.

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Speaker 1: Wayne does eventually dry out enough to become functional, and

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Speaker 1: it's because another actor sits down to drink with him,

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Speaker 1: and instead of giving him normal whiskey gives him what moonshine,

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Speaker 1: basically peer ever Clear, and so John Wayne drinks like

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Speaker 1: essentially hundred and eighty proof Ever Clear with a stomach bug,

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Speaker 1: which makes him so sick that he stops drinking for

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Speaker 1: a while. Is there anything alcohol can't do? You just

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Speaker 1: have the jangle keys in front of face, but like yeah,

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Speaker 1: like worse alcohol for him. Yeah. So the Big Trail

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Speaker 1: flops not it doesn't do super well. Although people today

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Speaker 1: will claim it was a really good movie. It just

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Speaker 1: isn't like a huge hit at the time kind of

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Speaker 1: is not seen as very successful. But it's people will

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Speaker 1: argue it's it's a pretty good movie. Um, those people

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Speaker 1: are fucking lying. Like, I don't know, it seems maybe

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Speaker 1: it was good, Like who knows. I would watch the

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes once again, Sure I would much Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like like the documentary about the making of The Isle

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Speaker 1: of dr Moreau, Like I haven't seen it, but believe

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Speaker 1: it's it's The director initial director of the film was

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Speaker 1: a wizard who went crazy and got fired and decided

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Speaker 1: to live in the jungle and sneak onto set in

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Speaker 1: costume every day while they were trying to make the movie.

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Speaker 1: It's it's fucking awesome. It's such a fun story. Say it, okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: can I just put it? Didn't say that ironized Cody's

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Speaker 1: real name? Yeah? Well, Espera Oscar DECORTI also like a

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Speaker 1: really effeminate name, Espada. Yeah, so no wonder he and

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Speaker 1: Marian got along. Um no, it's it's very funny. I

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Speaker 1: do like the image of him like feeding lasagna to

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Speaker 1: John Wayne and pretending it's like an ancient Apache remedy

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Speaker 1: for I can't figure out what he's doing, and all

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Speaker 1: of the other Italians and costume are like, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: that's an ancient remedy. Oh, Hollywood was pretty racist. Um

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Speaker 1: still is so the Big Trail. You know, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: kill his career entirely, because a lot of people do

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Speaker 1: see it as a pretty decent movie. Um, but it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: It does, like poorly enough that he spends most of

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Speaker 1: the next decade kind of just hanging in there as

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Speaker 1: an actor. He's he's moved up solidly from prop Boy,

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Speaker 1: but he's also kind of a side character. He's like

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan, right, he's not unknown. But no in this

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Speaker 1: period really considers themselves a John Wayne fan. You know,

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Speaker 1: like they've got a career. They're doing okay, but they're

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Speaker 1: also not like they're never like top build usually, right,

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Speaker 1: they're not they're not going to move a lot of

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Speaker 1: butts into seats. Um and Westerns are pretty much all

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Speaker 1: this out there. Correct, There's a lot. No, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of gangster movies. There's a lot of romance flicks.

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Speaker 1: There's some like war pictures and stuff like. But westerns

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Speaker 1: are they're like the Marvel movies of the day broadly speaking, right,

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Speaker 1: Like they're the most number one what tends to get

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Speaker 1: like not like they're kind of the most consistent way

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Speaker 1: people are making a bunch of money. They're like superhero

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Speaker 1: films broader than Marvel because there's cheap ones too, because

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Speaker 1: you can make them pretty cheap sometimes. And this is

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Speaker 1: the Fast and the Furious franchise. Yeah, I don't know, right,

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Speaker 1: Like in these are a lot of your action films, right,

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Speaker 1: this is what puts butts in seats. These are the

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Speaker 1: popcorn flicks. Right. And John Wayne kind of for a

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Speaker 1: decade is sort of a side character and those sort

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Speaker 1: of movies. Right, He's rarely gonna be a particularly big

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Speaker 1: because he's not a big draw. You know. This changes

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Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty nine when John gets finally cast in

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Speaker 1: a john Ford Cowboy film called Stagecoach. If you have

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Speaker 1: ever whenever you are watching like a movie or a

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Speaker 1: TV show that mentions John Wayne or cowboy movies, you

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Speaker 1: will see the same clip from the movie Stage Coach.

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Speaker 1: And it is John Wayne with a lever action gun

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Speaker 1: that he flips over and over in his hand as

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Speaker 1: he fires while walking onto screen, and it like slowly

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Speaker 1: zooms on in us face. It is one of the

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Speaker 1: most iconic scenes in Western cinema. Among other things, it's

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Speaker 1: entirely why Terminator to the action scenes initially are shot

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Speaker 1: the way. It's why Arnold in that movie gets a

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Speaker 1: lever action shotgun that he can flip around and fire.

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Speaker 1: It's this really iconic moment that makes its way into

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Speaker 1: a bunch of modern pop culture right um, And that

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Speaker 1: is the moment, that moment when John Wayne walks on

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Speaker 1: scene in Stagecoach that makes him as a star. And

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from a BuzzFeed right up by Anna

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Speaker 1: Helen Peterson. Stagecoach was intended as an ensemble picture. Wayne

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Speaker 1: doesn't even show up until fifteen minutes into the film,

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Speaker 1: but When he does, It's with a Heroes intro. Wayne

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Speaker 1: twirls his rifle as if it were a pistol as

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Speaker 1: the camera zooms into a glorious close up of Wayne's face.

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Speaker 1: It's become one of the most iconic scenes in classic cinema,

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Speaker 1: and Wayne's way out of Quickie Western purgatory. Gradually, Wayne

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Speaker 1: became something of a leading man. He was in Ford's

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Speaker 1: next picture, The Long Voyage Home as a Swedish fisherman,

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Speaker 1: and played a Navy officer opposite Marlene Dietrich in Seven Centers.

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Speaker 1: Wayne's westernness was treated as a matter of fact. He was,

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Speaker 1: in photoplays words, the typical Western American, open faced and

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Speaker 1: open minded, but the press also emphasized that he enjoyed

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Speaker 1: the finer things. Wayne dressed with meticulous care like any

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Speaker 1: well capped businessman, looks divine and tucks her tails, and

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Speaker 1: doesn't wean a guitar or sing sad pieces about Western

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Speaker 1: skies either. He lived in an exquisitely furnished home and

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Speaker 1: the swinkiest section of Hollywood, and has no yin for

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Speaker 1: horses off screen, so he becomes huge after this right

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Speaker 1: stagecoach makes him into a leading man and he kind

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Speaker 1: of immediately takes off in Hollywood. Part of it is

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Speaker 1: that he's been in film twenty years at this point,

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Speaker 1: he's in his he's like forty, Um, he's old enough

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Speaker 1: to get he's one of these guys who doesn't look

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Speaker 1: right until he gets kind of grizzled. Um. And so

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Speaker 1: he gets very popular for that. And he doesn't just

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Speaker 1: get cast as the stead in westerns um. And he's

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Speaker 1: kind of the first cowboy actor who's more actor than cowboy,

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Speaker 1: because the previous generation, guys like John Mix, are real cowboys,

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Speaker 1: you know, like that's how they learned. Wayne isn't really

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Speaker 1: like he's he's got some of that in his background, right,

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Speaker 1: Like he has some claim to it, but it's he's

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, he's a fancy dandy boy. You know,

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Speaker 1: he wants to he's just having a good time being

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Speaker 1: a rich guy. Yeah, and and he grew up poor,

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Speaker 1: so it's like, yeah, he's gonna want to not ride

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Speaker 1: a horse to a crop set right. Right. It's often

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Speaker 1: framed as like he hated horses, and he's like, no,

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Speaker 1: he just had to do that as a kid. He

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Speaker 1: probably doesn't want to do it anymore. Like he's too

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Speaker 1: many horses. But that's really interesting that like it takes

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Speaker 1: especially in the Westerns, and maybe in this time that

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Speaker 1: like having an older hero was much more compelling than like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, the Tom Hollins of today, like

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Speaker 1: a little baby face Spider Man. You're like, no, you

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Speaker 1: want a grizzled guy was killed many, many, many people.

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Speaker 1: You want a guy who's like, looks like he's kind

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Speaker 1: of seen some ship, who can who can play that

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Speaker 1: off a little bit, And he doesn't. Even this isn't

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Speaker 1: really the height of his career because he's still kind

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Speaker 1: of young at this point. Um, but yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: the first time he gets his big snakes. He's old

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Speaker 1: enough to you know, to look like he's been through

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Speaker 1: some stuff. Um. Now, there's one last PostScript to the

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Speaker 1: story of Stagecoach. While it ignited John Wayne's career, by

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, Tom Fix was largely out of work

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Speaker 1: and desperate for a good job. He asked John Ford

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Speaker 1: for a part on Stage Coach, and Mix would allege

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Speaker 1: until his death that John Wayne begged Ford not to

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Speaker 1: give Mixed the part, sabotaged the guy who got him

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Speaker 1: his first job, right, real piece of shit, you know,

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Speaker 1: I know you're gonna get like, oh my god, that's crazy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it was supposed to be an ensemble cast or

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Speaker 1: it is an ensemble cast everybody. Yeah, But you know,

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Speaker 1: if if Mixes in there, maybe that's gonna take some

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Speaker 1: shine away from John Wayne. He's not gonna because mix

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Speaker 1: is a better cowboy actor. Maybe that's gonna funk with

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Speaker 1: John Wayne's ability to, uh, you know shine on set

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Speaker 1: right now? Does he learn anything in these in these years?

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Speaker 1: Like is he a better alcoholic? Number one? He's an

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Speaker 1: incredible alcohol You gotta give him credit for that. The

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Speaker 1: King like really, honestly, this is a separate story. But

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Speaker 1: and I do my podcast on the heroes of drunk driving.

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Speaker 1: He's one of the most influential drunk drivers they're ever

356
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Speaker 1: really invented a lot of modern drunk driving techniques, holding

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Speaker 1: a beer in between his legs, uh, screaming at his

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Speaker 1: wife drunkenly from in the back seat while he drives,

359
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Speaker 1: like all of those John Wayne originals in the closet

360
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Speaker 1: when nobody could piss in a closet like John Wayne.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely not. You know what else is oscar worthy? These ads?

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Speaker 1: And we're back, uh, and the Oscar for best, ad

363
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: goes to the one about how Mattresses no longer uses

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Speaker 1: rare earth minerals mind by slave labor in the congo

365
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Speaker 1: to make their beds. Not anymore, not anymore. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was back in That was back in the seventeen hundreds

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Speaker 1: when Mattress was better known as the East India Trading Company. Um,

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Speaker 1: they've moved on now they just ship people mattresses. It's fine,

369
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Speaker 1: We've forgiven them. Yeah, you need to forgive them too.

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Speaker 1: That's the message of our Oscar winning Mattress ad. So

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Speaker 1: in the Ford films Seven Centers, John Wayne played opposite

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Speaker 1: Marlena Dietrich and she's the real actress who inspired the

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Speaker 1: fictional Bridget von hammers Mark and Inglorious Bastards. So in

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Speaker 1: that movie, she is the German actress that Quentin Tarantino

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Speaker 1: insisted on strangling on camera for very unclear reasons. Um

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Speaker 1: or maybe not so unclear reasons. I don't I'm not

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Speaker 1: enough of an expert on that. But it's weird, right,

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Speaker 1: we gotta agree, it's weird. It's kind of uncomfortable that

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Speaker 1: he did that. Yeah, yeah, I'm remembering that. That's in

380
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Speaker 1: the Yes, yes, yes, it's like the Yeah he wanted

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Speaker 1: it to be his hands on on camera that strangled her.

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Speaker 1: Very weird. Um, but your feet fucking Quintin Tarantino. So, Um,

383
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Speaker 1: she's the real actress that that lady is based off of.

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Speaker 1: She's quite a star, one of the most famous leading

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Speaker 1: ladies ever and certainly in this period. Um, kind of

386
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Speaker 1: top of the fucking female you know, actor food chain. Um. Now,

387
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: in real life, Wayne and Dietrich started hooking up immediately. Um,

388
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Speaker 1: she is way more experienced than him. Um she oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she is Marlen di Dietrich, and he is is an

390
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Speaker 1: awkward boy who spends most of his time drunk with

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Speaker 1: a bunch of dudes on a yacht. Um. So one

392
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Speaker 1: of the things that like he obviously he gets super

393
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Speaker 1: into this thing. He's also kind of insecure with her

394
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Speaker 1: and around her because she's more experienced than him and

395
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Speaker 1: more famous than him. Um, so a few things are

396
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: going on here. This is kind of a complex relationship,

397
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Speaker 1: although I think from marline she just likes fucking hot actors.

398
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Speaker 1: You know, he's the one who starts developing some complexes

399
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Speaker 1: around this. Hey boy, boy, lift that couch over there. Yeah,

400
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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, hang on, Let me, pour some oil on

401
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Speaker 1: your back. Keep doing that. No, no, I didn't say

402
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Speaker 1: come yet. So obviously he's still married to Josie at

403
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Speaker 1: this point. His his wife, of course, when they get married,

404
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: when and his gife getting married, Like their friends from

405
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Speaker 1: the beginning are like, well, this isn't going to last.

406
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Speaker 1: He is incapable of not cheating on you constantly, and

407
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Speaker 1: you are super catholic now heartbreaking, Lee. Josie adores her husband. Um,

408
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Speaker 1: John mostly seems to be distracted and frustrated by her.

409
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Speaker 1: She feels like his acting like her attitude is I

410
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Speaker 1: just gotta put up with this for a little while.

411
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Speaker 1: Nobody is in acting very long. Eventually it'll he'll get

412
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Speaker 1: too old. It'll be a short feeling for him, um,

413
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Speaker 1: and then he'll figure out something more serious to do

414
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Speaker 1: with his life. Um John Wayne kind of views his

415
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Speaker 1: wife and children the same way, right, even my whole thing,

416
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Speaker 1: you know. Um. So, he would later complain to friends

417
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Speaker 1: that he and Josie only had sex four times during

418
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Speaker 1: their marriage. Fucking probably a lie, but like a gross one.

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Speaker 1: So mean dude, Um, he's just so angry that like,

420
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Speaker 1: what does that say about you two? Like that's obviously

421
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Speaker 1: doesn't look good on you, bron. Maybe she would want

422
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Speaker 1: to suck you more if she didn't feel like you

423
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: were sucking every single other person in town because she's

424
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: not into that ship. Like, maybe maybe your behavior is

425
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: having an impact on the things you don't like about

426
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: your marriage. John Wayne, He's not going to into my wife,

427
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like those kids four nuts. Honestly,

428
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: that was it, in and out, five pomps, four nuts.

429
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 1: I mean really not even that hot, Like my wife's

430
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 1: not as hot as Marlen. Wow, you are just quoting

431
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: directly from his o biography. The story of It showed

432
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: the tale of John Way. Uh so he's initially, some

433
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: people will say, was kind of morally conflicted about all

434
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: the sleeping around he was doing. But by the time

435
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: he's an actual star, it becomes just like totally Uh

436
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: it becomes just like so routine to him that he

437
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: stops trying to hide it. So everyone in Hollywood knows

438
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: that John Wayne and Marlene Dietrich are sleeping with each other.

439
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: Um they do not even like they They're out in

440
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: public together at events while Josie is eight months pregnant,

441
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: which doesn't do She's not happy you know that's not great.

442
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: That's not a great position to put someone in. Um.

443
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: So she confronts him over it. But she's also too

444
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: Catholic to divorce him, right, Like, you don't do that.

445
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: So she's yeah, it's it's growny um like his parents

446
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: got divorced. Yeah, because pars and he it's interesting years

447
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: earlier or whatever that he doesn't push divorce U because

448
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: he could have. And Jensen, one of his biographers, suspects

449
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: that this is because he's still too possessive and insecure

450
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: about her. Um. And I'm gonna he's actually the piece

451
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: of ship in the relationship. Oh for sure, Absolutely, he's

452
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: the piece of ship in this relationship. I don't know

453
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: much about Josie, but I know that John Wayne is

454
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: the bad guy in this relationship. Um. I'm going to

455
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: read a quote about him as a as a husband

456
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: and a father from from Jensen's book. He demanded his

457
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: children profess their love to him on a daily basis.

458
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 1: Barely Able to sleep, Duke awoke every day before dawn

459
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,479
Speaker 1: and demanded the entire house rise with him, even if

460
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: it was a day off for family and friends. He

461
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: had a litany of rules based upon superstitions, which were

462
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: a result of the childhood of poverty and emotional abuse

463
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: by his mother. Ever, convinced that he was destined for ruined,

464
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: Duke consisted that the superstitions be followed or his life

465
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: would collapse into abject failure. So he he he makes

466
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 1: bizarre rules for his family. He screams at them if

467
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: they put hats on beds. Can't do that around John.

468
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: If you if you spill salt, you have to toss

469
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: it over your shoulder, which is not an uncommon thing

470
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: in this day. Umbrella's can only be opened outside. No

471
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: one can hand him a salt shaker. You don't hand

472
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: John Wayne a salt shaker. You know what's really funny

473
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: about that is that I like, I lived in Latin

474
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: America for a while and the same thing, Like I mean,

475
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: just the superstistent you put the salt on the table,

476
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 1: then you can pick it up. Yeah, there's like a

477
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: lot like this is not he didn't invent this. It's

478
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: not like only to him. Maybe the no hats on

479
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 1: beds thing. I haven't heard that before. That's kind of weird.

480
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: But is he like, you know, you know, look me

481
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: in the eyes when we toast otherwise seven years bad luck.

482
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: You know that one's true? Yea, like seven years of

483
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: bad sex or whatever it is, even though I've only

484
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: done it with your mom four times, four times at

485
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: the dinner table after screaming about salt. Uh. But what

486
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: does it mean, professor? Love like just every day. Yeah,

487
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: you gotta tell dad that he's a good dad before

488
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: he goes out to fun Marlene Dietrich on Rodeo drive

489
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: out in public. He doesn't start it like it can't

490
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: be him to say I love you first. That is unclear.

491
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: But he does not strike me as I say I

492
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: love you first kind of dude. I don't know. Maybe so. Uh.

493
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: He's also like this around his friends. He's got these

494
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: card playing buddies that he plays cards with, and if

495
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: somebody sets a card on the table face up by accident,

496
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: they have to get up and circle their chair three

497
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: times in order to avoid bad luck. Um. So he's

498
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: you know again, this is not I think people might

499
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: be I want to say, this is like O C. D.

500
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe I'm not going to diagnose him,

501
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: but these are all like superstitions that exist at the time,

502
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: and he's just this is not an uncommon thing with

503
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: people who like grow up in desperate situations where they

504
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: get super paranoid about not wanting to do anything that

505
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: can make ship go wrong for them, because they understand

506
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: how fragile successes um and how shitty it is when

507
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: you're dirt poor. I get it, you know, not that

508
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: it's good, but I understand what's going on in his

509
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: head here. I think. So while he's keeping a tight

510
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: eye on his wife and kids, he escalates his relationship

511
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: with Dietrich. She later claimed that she more or less

512
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: directed their affair as the more experienced partner. Quote what

513
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: pleased me most was he wasn't vain or arrogant, Far

514
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: from it. He was insecure as an actor, worried about

515
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: his talent or what he felt was a lack of it.

516
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: As a man. He was a little insecure and vulnerable.

517
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: I was able to help in both respects. We had

518
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: a small affair, a small friendship, which we both enjoyed.

519
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: Now that's to her again, marleya Dietrich, huge star. Uh.

520
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: He it's a bigger thing for him, and it's definitely

521
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: a bigger thing for his wife, for whom this is devastating, right,

522
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: Mereley just like, yeah, you know is he was he

523
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: was young. He needed somebody to show him the ropes

524
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: and like make him feel better about himself. I did that.

525
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: It's whatever. Then I wanted Yeah, yeah, I enjoyed that

526
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: he didn't know how to talk back to me. Yeah.

527
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: I was a little wife. How cute months pregnant, she's

528
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: fat four children? Yes, but that's really interesting that. I

529
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: mean it might I'm curious to how this ends because

530
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: I feel like it's foreboding, like she clearly he was

531
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: clearly obsessed with Well, that's an interesting part here. So

532
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: John Wayne was actually in Mexico partying with Dietrich while

533
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: his wife Josie delivers their fourth child and second daughter,

534
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: Melinda Um. So their relationship continued for some time, and

535
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: while Wayne definitely got along better with Dietrich than he

536
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: did with his wife, it was also a tempestuous relationship.

537
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: And I'm going to read a real rough quote from

538
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: the true life of John Wayne here. Duke handled her

539
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: the way he handled every woman in his life. When

540
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: she provoked him, he punched her, and it didn't matter

541
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: if it was in public. On location for the Spoilers

542
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: in Lake Arrowhead, California, Duke and Marlene were rehearsing a

543
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: scene for the film. Duke suggested one way to play

544
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: the scene, and Marlen suggested another. Duke pressed his point

545
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: and Marlene finally shot back, that's a dumb idea. Duke's

546
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: face turned to stone and his eyes burned with suppressed rage.

547
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: As the camera was about to roll, Duke angrily retied

548
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: his bandanna, which he'd loosened between takes. Uh. Duke tied

549
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: a bigger than normal not and Marlen saw it and

550
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: told him, you don't even know how to tie a bandana. Suddenly,

551
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: Duke exploded. He swung a huge fist in a roundhouse

552
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: right and hit Marlen right in the face. She went flying,

553
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: landing hard in the rough dirt. Marlene lay sprawled on

554
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: the ground for a moment, gathering her senses. She didn't

555
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: cry now, no, no, she was on the ground and

556
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: straight up. When she came to she lit a cigarette.

557
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: That's well, it's actually more uncomfortable than that, Francesca, because

558
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: according to Jensen, whose source here is the actress Margaret Lindsay,

559
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: who is there on set when this happens, she looks

560
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: up at him with a tense arousal, gets up and

561
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: gives him what is described by this other actress as

562
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: a love punch, and then they start making out. So

563
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I don't know what

564
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: you want to do with this information? How do you

565
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: want to parse that all out? But that's what someone

566
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: else who was there says, went down. I've been waiting

567
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: for you to do that since the moment I met you.

568
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: He will, he will be repeatedly physically abusive to people,

569
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: to women specifically, throughout his life. It is unclear to

570
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: me if that's what's going on here or if they

571
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: just had kind of a thing where that I don't

572
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: I really don't know, Like I don't know what's going

573
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: on with these two. Um. I mean it's interesting though,

574
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: because she as even though she did that, you got

575
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: to think about being a star like her in that

576
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: time you're on set, this guy who you're sleeping with,

577
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: who's younger, more inexperienced, hits you. What are you gonna do,

578
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: like cry or be mad wherever that shows so much

579
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: vulne ability, You're gonna get up and be like, No,

580
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: I liked it. It's exactly whatever. You know. That is

581
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: much more a position of strength when you've got to

582
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: protect your image, that's right, right, And that's a huge,

583
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: probably part of what's like. I I mean, I don't

584
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: know these people obviously, Um, but that seems really plausible

585
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: to me. Um yeah, fucking embarrassing otherwise. And again, a

586
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: number of people through the years and other circumstances see

587
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: John Wayne hit women in public, like with his fists.

588
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: Not that like a slap is okay either, but like

589
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: specifically like punching them. Um, it's just like a thing

590
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: John Wayne does, like his, like his, like his mentor

591
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: John Ford. Um, cool dudes, learned it from the best.

592
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, it is also Yeah, so Duke's relationship with

593
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: Marlene fell apart for the same reason so many of

594
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: his relationships did. He started fucking a teenage girl in Mexico.

595
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: Um yeah, so that's why this doesn't work out. She

596
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: may have been working as a prostitute it at the time.

597
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: Her exact background is kind of unclear. Some sources will

598
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: say her mother ran a brothel that was very popular

599
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: with the actors and that's where John Wayne meets her. Um,

600
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 1: but we know that he definitely at age thirty four.

601
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: I think starts fucking at the oldest She's like seventeen

602
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: at this point. Um. Her name is Esperanza Bauer. She

603
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: goes by Chatta. UM. Biographer Randy Roberts writes in his

604
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: book John Wayne American Quote, Chata's life before nineteen forty

605
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: one is a mystery. She was never accepted in Hollywood,

606
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: and rumors circulated at the time that she met John

607
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: Wayne that she was working as a high priced call

608
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: girl and a bit actress in the Mexican film industry.

609
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: Pillar Wayne later wrote that Chatta was born in the

610
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: slums of Mexico City and became a prostitute to escape poverty.

611
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: Others said that when Chatta and Duke met, she was

612
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: married to a Mexican student named Eugenio Morrison. We really

613
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: don't know what her background is, but we know she

614
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: is a teenager and possibly a sex worker. Hard to say, Um, Roberts. Chata, Yeah,

615
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: and maybe even the worst, which is not a sex

616
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 1: worker but the daughter of something a traffic was not

617
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: actually working. And then it's hard. Yeah, we really do

618
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: not know the precise details here other than that it's

619
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: for sure gross, right, it's for sure gross. It's for

620
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: sure bad stuff. Um, it's just the exact dimensions of

621
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: like what precisely was going on is kind of unclear,

622
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: but it's for sure bad. And I should note here

623
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: that like Roberts's book is way classier and it's description

624
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: of Chata the Jensen's book. Sure, it's called What American

625
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: John Made American? Well gee, I mean because Jensen is

626
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: like the most negative book about John Wayne. But it's

627
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: also written by a dude who was writing at least

628
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: in a pretty gross time, and I think was kind

629
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 1: of gross himself because he describes Chata as quote, an

630
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: underaged prostitute with a spoking body and amazing good looks.

631
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: I call the ship Jensen what the funk, dude? And

632
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: that's her biography. If you are describing someone as an

633
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: underaged prostitute, the whatever comes next should never include the

634
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: phrase smoking body. Never you have just stated you're talking

635
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: about a child. Richard Jensen, God, what a again? John

636
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: Wayne biographer is probably only moderately less terrible than John Wayne.

637
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: No exactly, he's only a few gradations better on the

638
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: me too creep predator scale. And again, I also I

639
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: am unclear as to how much we should like. There's

640
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are arguing someone's underage, you

641
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: should always say sex trafficking victim rather than prostitute. But also,

642
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: this is a real different time, and I don't know

643
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: the extent to which she has agency in her life,

644
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: and seventeen is means a different thing in nineteen thirty

645
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: nine than it does today in some ways, Like I

646
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 1: have no idea what's going on. I have no idea

647
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: whether she's a victim of her mom or if she

648
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: is pursuing a rich guy to get out of like

649
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: Mexico and into the United States, and like like, who,

650
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, what's I mean from brothel to Hollywood,

651
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: Like I'll take the deal. Because she's also trying to

652
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: get a career in Hollywood, which John Wayne attempts to

653
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: help her with. So like, there's there's stuff going on here.

654
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: It's certainly horrific behavior on John Wayne's part, you know

655
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: what I mean? John Wayne falls in love. He says, um,

656
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: he will for years call her his true love even

657
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: after they have split up. And he punches Oh, he

658
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: punches her a lot. He punches her a lot. Um,

659
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: So whatever is going on in her background, Wayne falls

660
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: in love immediately He moves her to California, where he

661
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: has her tell people she's twenty four years old. Um,

662
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: so he knows this is again we just said, like

663
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: these are somewhat different times and some of this stuff

664
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: is viewed differently. But john Wayne knows this is gross

665
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,919
Speaker 1: enough that he has to age her up, you know, Like,

666
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: so again that different yeah even for Hollywood people like

667
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: that's kind of young John. Um, he starts trying one

668
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: of the things that's important to him. And again, we

669
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: don't know how much it is that she wanted a

670
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 1: career in movies. There's an argument to be made that

671
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: he wanted her to be seen as having a career,

672
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: so it doesn't look like he just trafficked a girl

673
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: from Mexico into Hollywood. Um. So, whatever is going on

674
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 1: here again? Super messy? Uh, super messed up. Um. Marlena

675
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: Dietrich when she finds out that what he's doing that

676
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: he's that he set this girl up with an apartment

677
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 1: in Hollywood and brought her into the country, she dumps him.

678
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 1: She's like, no, no, no, like that's that's fucking weird.

679
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: John So, Um, I don't know. Good for Marlene. I

680
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: guess she's fine. He's still married to Josie at this

681
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: point though, and if she wasn't happy with Marlene Dietrich,

682
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: she's really not happy with with this. Um not psyched

683
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: about what what John is doing. Um. Now her parents

684
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: are both high society Catholics, and so he's called upon

685
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: regularly to show up at events and functions. Um. And

686
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: you know he's surly because he'd rather be fucking someone

687
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: who is at the oldest now nineteen, right, they've been

688
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: together a couple of points, So he just acts like

689
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: a jick the parties. He's goes the events to cruise

690
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 1: for like young Catholic girls. He goes to the events

691
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: so that everyone knows how much he doesn't want to

692
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: be there, Like he sulks because he'd rather be with

693
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: his like teenage mistress in the apartment that he makes

694
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: the studio pay for her in Hollywood. Um. One of

695
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: the family friends was like and they did. Um. Yeah,

696
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: So he's like, not only is he cheating on his

697
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: wife with a teenager, but he has to like make

698
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: sure everybody knows how unfair he thinks it is that

699
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: he has to show up at parties where adults are Um.

700
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: Cool guy, John Wayne, Um, what a dude. So Hollywood

701
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: is helping bank roll sort of the because he's too

702
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 1: big of a cash cow for them to like making

703
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: them a lot of money. Yeah, this is the early forties.

704
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: He moves chat at a Hollywood in the spring of

705
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: forty three. Some will argue that it was like part

706
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: of what he was doing by having the studio pay

707
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: for her apartment and pay for her to like they

708
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: would give her like money every month, that it was

709
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: partly like a tax dodge, like that's how he received

710
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: some of his salaries so that it wasn't taxed. I

711
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: don't know how to evaluate the truth of that, but

712
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: it does sound like some movie star shit, like not

713
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: only are you like keeping a secret teenage mistress, but

714
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: you're doing it as a tax dodge, you know, like

715
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 1: everyone's on board. Yeah, that's that does sound very Hollywood

716
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: and in the nows too, like that's not just a

717
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: forties thing. Um. So the two start seeing each other

718
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: probably in forty one. I think like forty three is

719
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: when she moves to Hollywood. That it's also the year

720
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: one that the United States, helped long by our buddies

721
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: in Japan, decides to give this whole World War two

722
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 1: thing a try, right, Um, So this is our big

723
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: old patriotic war. Right, every everybody's got to go volunteer

724
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: to fight. It is all but unthinkable for young leading

725
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: men in the prime of their life action movie stars. Right,

726
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: You've got this war where absolutely every man who can

727
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: is doing something. It's considered obscene by a lot of

728
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: people that somebody capable of doing action like in the film,

729
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: somebody like being a war hero in movies, wouldn't go

730
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: volunteer to fight to serve in some way, Right. Jimmy

731
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: Stewart tries to join the Army. He gets rejected as

732
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: being under He has just one, like, I think, an

733
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: Academy award. This is right after It's a wonderful life.

734
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: He's one of the biggest stars in the world. He

735
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: gets rejected for being underweight, so he hires a personal

736
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: trainer so he can bulke up, and he joins the

737
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: Army Air Corps and he flies twenty bomber missions over Europe,

738
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: like the most one of the most dangerous jobs of

739
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: the entire wars. You me, Stewart. He retires as a general, didn't, Yeah,

740
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: Jimmy Stewart bombs like Europe repeatedly, Like he has an

741
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: incredibly dangerous job. They didn't need all those bombs some

742
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: of them, yes, but yeah, but it's also like, undeniably,

743
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: as one of the biggest stars in the world, he

744
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: takes a job where like a huge percentage of men

745
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: who do that job die doing it, like it is

746
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: incredibly dangerous um And there's a lot of famous actors

747
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 1: who do similar things. Clark Gable, who was over forty

748
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: at the point and was old enough that he could

749
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: have gotten out of serving, joins the Air Force. Some

750
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: will say he was suicidal because his wife had just died,

751
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: but he flew. He also flies bomber missions. As an

752
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: aerial gunner. Gable is like crammed into a gun in

753
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: the belly of a bomber, like shooting at fighter planes.

754
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: So even though it's not like all these movie stars

755
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: you know, were once action heroes or the detectives or

756
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: in real life, they become them because it's sort of

757
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 1: still seen as you know, you know, serving your country

758
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: and your role model. Even though like some a lot

759
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: of these guys go on to be politically problematic, but

760
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: they're all human enough to look at the Nazis and

761
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 1: be like, I should we probably do something about that,

762
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: where we probably got to do something about that, right, right, right,

763
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: or just even even like the idea that you would

764
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: attempt to physically train to be able to like like

765
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: Jimmy could have just like you know, tried to put

766
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: on I just can't do it, you know, off yet

767
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: he committed Oh my god, that yeah, alright. So and

768
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: Henry Fonda, who could have gotten out of the service

769
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: because he had three kids and initially they weren't drafting

770
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: like Father's right, they were trying to keep families together.

771
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: They were mainly drafting singleman. Fonda could have gotten a deferment. Instead,

772
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: he enlists in the Army Air Corps and again, like

773
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: serves his country at war. Now, a lot of big

774
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: stars did not join the military. Gary Cooper doesn't join,

775
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 1: Bing Crosby, James Cagney. But they're also way over forty

776
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 1: I think at this point, like they're old enough that like,

777
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 1: well I just can't you know, I'm an old man.

778
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna slow everybody down, right, which fair enough.

779
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 1: You probably shouldn't be getting into that stuff. If you're

780
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: Bing Crosby and you have been chain smoking cigarettes since

781
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: age eight, you might not be helpful. Um, But John

782
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: Wayne was young enough to serve. He's in his mid

783
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: thirties at this point, right, he is the prime of

784
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 1: his life. He is a big strong man. Initially though,

785
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: he qualifies for a deferment, and he gets a deferment

786
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: because he has a wife and kids. Right, I got

787
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: six kids. Keep saying, good old, good old Josie. I

788
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: gotta stay with Josie and the kids. You know, I

789
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: gotta keep him. I gotta keep him, you know, I gotta.

790
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: I want to go out there and fight the crowds.

791
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, but this family. I'm so dedicated

792
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: to my family. I've got yeah, yeah, I've got a

793
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 1: wife to sleep around on. I have kids to ignore. Um.

794
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 1: So he gets a deferment um, and his studio uses

795
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: his family as an excuse for the fat that he's

796
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: not serving with because the press asked, right, John Wayne's

797
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: a big star, He's not what what are you doing

798
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: in the war? John Wayne? That everyone else is a

799
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: part of um. This exerpt from an article in Modern

800
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 1: Screen is a good example of how they justified this quote.

801
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: A man of thirty five heading to a family of

802
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 1: six has to think twice before leaving. Just the same,

803
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: Big John Wayne is restless because, like I said, he's

804
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: a man's man who thinks straight and believes in action.

805
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 1: It's a dilemma for a family man and an American

806
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: gentleman who wants to make a personal appearance in the

807
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: big scrap. So that's how they frame it as, like, Oh,

808
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: he really wants to get in there. But ah, he's

809
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: just got it. He's got his family. Oh he loved

810
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: to make a cameo, but he's he's a teenager that

811
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: he traffics into the United States. You know, I'm not

812
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,879
Speaker 1: sure if you've heard of the Alcoholics Yacht Club. Very

813
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: important work that they're doing out there in Mexico. Really

814
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: the most important branch of the Navy is the Alcoholic

815
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: Yacht Club. Yeah, so he would love to Oh my god,

816
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 1: he'd so love to be there to help your little war. Ever. Yeah,

817
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: Now it's very funny too because while he's making these

818
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,240
Speaker 1: claims and forty two and forty three, he has already

819
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: moved Chata into Hollywood and asked his wife for a divorce.

820
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: They are separated. When all of it, when he's claiming

821
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: all of this ship to the press, now, hang on,

822
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: not yet, not yet, honey, don't sign the papers don't

823
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: not quite yet, not quite yet man now, although actually

824
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: I should say he really does want it. Um, she

825
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: refuses to divorce him for a while because you know,

826
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 1: again she's incredibly Catholic. Uh. And his mentor, patron, John Ford,

827
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: gives him hell to for trying to divorce her because

828
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: he's Catholic. Right, Ford, who again beats his wife relentlessly,

829
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: believes that John Wayne should stay married because that's what

830
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: God wants and just keep cheating on his wife, you know,

831
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: I mean that's the john Ford but also trapped them

832
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: John Come on, yeah, so that's what a fucking like.

833
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: So good on Clyde and Molly. I just want to

834
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: say that, you know, early pioneers a lot of things,

835
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,240
Speaker 1: trying to farm in the desert but also getting a divorce,

836
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: and one of those two things was excecting, abusive, really

837
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: very revolutionary. That Molly was the one doing the abusing

838
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: a plus like incredible work. Um. So it is worth

839
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: emphasizing that John Wayne, while he dodged the draft in

840
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: World War Two, justified it by needing to take care

841
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: of his family. While he's doing this, he is living

842
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: away from his wife in luxury at the Chateau Marmont

843
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: and fucking a girl who is at most nineteen who

844
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: he possibly illegally trafficked into the United States. That part's questionable,

845
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: but um yeah, it's cold so um brand for hollow

846
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: Christian masculinity, like you know, emblem that he is, he

847
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: doesn't actually and kind of the shift of like oh

848
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: no, no no, no, that's the old way is to actually

849
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: put your anywhere your mouth is or do something like

850
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: be a hero. This is like yeah, like is playing

851
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 1: from this playbook, you know exactly. I'm just like thinking,

852
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 1: like what if like Jenna Bush was sent to Iraq?

853
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: Loell like Jenna Bush, I mean is co hosting Good

854
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: Morning America. You know what I'm saying. I I think

855
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: we should send all of the children of elected leaders

856
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: into war zones. I don't care which ones they don't

857
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: need to be supported or just send them just mail

858
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: them there, you know what, like in a shipping crate.

859
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: It's the Today Show. But yes they should and they

860
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: should all be sent there. I mean retroactively, you could

861
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 1: still go to Iraq, I like, help rebuild bro Well,

862
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't look, I don't think the

863
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 1: iraqis need Jenna Bush's help. Um, but you know, um,

864
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,240
Speaker 1: she could take somebody's place in a city getting shelled

865
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: right now, Um, just move them into your house, Jenna,

866
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: Come on, indeed, do something. So Ford chastises John Wayne

867
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: for quote this is how he talks about John Wayne's teenage. Uh.

868
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: I don't know what term to use here, but he

869
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: says that she playing with Mexican jumping beans because again,

870
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 1: everyone's very racist, very like these are like this is

871
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: for nineteen forty three, you know, like um. But he

872
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: also calls him a damn fool for breaking up his marriage.

873
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 1: According to biographer Roberts, Wayne wrote back that the marriage

874
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,959
Speaker 1: is over and he quote does not give a four

875
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 1: letter word if I could see my kids. I don't

876
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: give a ship if she takes the kids. Awesome, what

877
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: a hero. So there are several things John Ford never

878
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: forgave John Wayne for and this is one of them.

879
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: When the war started forward to his credit, well, I

880
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: don't know if this is to his credit before joins

881
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 1: the OSS, which is the precursor to the c i A.

882
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: And he gets the rank of commander and he gets

883
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: this to make like propaganda movies. Right, That's what Reagan

884
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: does during the war, right, lot of guys who don't

885
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 1: want to go fight because not everybody does the Jimmy

886
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: Stewart thing, still join the military and they make propaganda

887
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: reels about how not to get v D or whatever. Um, John,

888
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 1: So that's John for John stuff. In those days there

889
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: was some good stuff, some good v D. You mean, yeah,

890
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: oh my god, the old time syphilis. This new ship

891
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:28,720
Speaker 1: cannot compete. No, the itch isn't the same. Not just

892
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: doesn't hold a candle. You kids don't even know what

893
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 1: it's like to have your p burn. Unbelievable zoomers. Okay,

894
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: so um. Biographer Scott i'man basically said so again. Ford

895
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: joins the OSS and starts calling John Wayne a coward

896
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 1: for failing to serve um and tries to push him

897
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: to join. Now, there's a couple of different versions of

898
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: what Wayne wants to do in the OSS. Biographer Scott

899
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: i'man frames it as if John Wayne wanted to get

900
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 1: like a special ops gig suited for an action star.

901
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: So when i'man's telling, he crafts his application to the

902
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: ouss to make him look like an international man of mystery.

903
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: Quote swimming above average, small boat sailing, average football played

904
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: college ball at the University of Southern California. Squashing tennis, fair,

905
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,439
Speaker 1: deep sea fishing, seven marlin in two years, hunting good field, shot,

906
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: horseback riding, have done falls and posse riding in pictures.

907
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,879
Speaker 1: Not as easy as it sounds. So that's that's the way,

908
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: like I'm in as like he wants to try to

909
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 1: get a job doing like, you know, secret agent kind

910
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: of shit. Um, squashing tennis, that's fair. It's basically throwing

911
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: a grenade, you know. Fair. So Ford introduces John Wayne

912
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 1: to wild Bill Donovan, who's the head of the OSS

913
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: and like will become the founder of the c I

914
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,919
Speaker 1: a UM, and Donovan suggests that Wayne might be good

915
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: for what they call small boat work, which is running

916
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 1: the German blockade to deliver weapons to partisans, which would

917
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,879
Speaker 1: be a pretty cool thing to do in World War two.

918
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 1: If he really wants to get him a bit role

919
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,359
Speaker 1: in the war in the war, well, and if he'd

920
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 1: done this, that's dope. Like that's literally, um fucking uh.

921
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: What's his name's character in Casablanca? Um? Yeah, um Bogart,

922
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 1: that's what he's doing. He's like running guns to two

923
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: rebels in like occupied Europe, and ship. So i'man says

924
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,240
Speaker 1: like that's what John Wayne is trying to do. Wild

925
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: bills like, oh yeah, you'd be perfect for this. John

926
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: Wayne's like, I would love to run guns past the

927
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: Nazi blockade. I just gotta finish three more movies, Like,

928
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: give me three more movies, but then I'm gonna I'm

929
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:37,720
Speaker 1: gonna be ready to get in. You know, I'm ready

930
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: to get in. And friends of his at the time

931
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 1: will note that he kind of always tells people I

932
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 1: just gotta do one more movie. I gotta do two

933
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: more movies and then I'm getting into the war effort.

934
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: Don't worry, guys, I'm almost there. I'll be right behind you.

935
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 1: This is like Trump on January six, Just like you guys,

936
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: go right there. There are versions of this story. One

937
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: version is that he films his three pictures and he

938
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: holls this officer at the OSS that Donovan had set

939
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: him up with, and that guy was like, dude, we

940
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: sent you a letter, you know, did you not get it?

941
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: We already filled that position. So john gets worried. He's like,

942
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: oh no, I'm gonna miss my chance to be in

943
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:14,479
Speaker 1: the os S And he sends John Ford a letter

944
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: which states, dear Pappy, have you any suggestions on how

945
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: I should get in? Can I get assigned to your outfit?

946
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: And if I could, would you want me? How about

947
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: the Marines? You have Army and Navuman under you? Have

948
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: you any Marines? Or how about a CB or what

949
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: would you suggest? I just hate to ask favors, but

950
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: for Christ's sake, you can suggest, can't you. Now. I'man's

951
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 1: take here seems to be that John Wayne was perhaps

952
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 1: unwilling to fight, but or willing to serve, but not

953
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: as like a simple soldier. Whatever he was going to do,

954
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: he wanted it to be like a special position, one

955
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 1: that matched his opinion of himself, and something that would

956
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: exclude him from the standard military chain of command. So,

957
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: like Jimmy Stewart, Jean Autrey, Clark Gable, these guys are

958
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: all fighting as normal soldiers more or less, John Wayne

959
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: does not want to do that. Scott i'man writes, quote,

960
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 1: It's probable that Wayne was emotionally committed to working under

961
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 1: Ford's command, was embarrassed about Donovan shying away from him

962
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 1: at the height of the war, and simply wasn't willing

963
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: to enlist and take his chances. Certainly he had an

964
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 1: image of himself as an officer under Ford, but as

965
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: he would say, I would have had to go in

966
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 1: as a private. I took a dim view of that.

967
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 1: So the reality is unclean. And again, some people will

968
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: say initially John Wayne was trying to get this gig

969
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: running guns. Others will say he only just wanted to

970
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 1: be in Ford's unit making movies like he never wanted

971
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 1: to get close to the danger. Hard to say. Uh.

972
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 1: The author of the BuzzFeed right up, I quoted earlier

973
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 1: ads quote. The truth of Wayne's hesitation was logical, if unspeakable.

974
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 1: He'd worked for a decade to claw his way out

975
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: of the quickies. If he left Hollywood, then, even to

976
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: serve his country, he might not ever regain his momentum.

977
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: So he stayed put, made a dozen films, two of

978
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: which dealt with the war, and allowed the press to

979
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: rationalize his lack of service. He doesn't want to suck

980
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: his career up right now, or his hair, and that's

981
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: the dominant theory now. Richard Jensen has a third theory,

982
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: which a list at least explains why Wayne was not

983
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: accepted for the OSS. He argues that while John Ford

984
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: was giving John Wayne ship for not serving and being like,

985
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: why are you being in a coward? Why aren't you

986
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: willing to like man up and and take part in

987
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 1: this war. While he's doing that, Ford is also telling

988
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: wild Bill Donovan, don't hire this guy, don't let him in,

989
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,399
Speaker 1: don't don't bring this guy like he'd done before. You know, Um,

990
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 1: he does this like about roles in Hollywood. So friends,

991
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: that's totally tracks. That's absolutely the guy John Ford is

992
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,240
Speaker 1: right because he's already fallen out with him by this point.

993
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: So well, they're in and out a bunch, like they

994
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: they're close, Like Wayne will take care of him when

995
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 1: he's sick and dying. They have a codependent kind of thing, right,

996
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,839
Speaker 1: Like it's totally a codependent relationship because like Ford will

997
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 1: want nothing to do with him and then want him

998
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: back and kind of yeah, they kissed that one time,

999
00:55:56,120 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 1: but they were drunk and they were drunk and it

1000
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: was cold, so you know, john Ford, uh kind of

1001
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: sucking and he does this like when he's not when

1002
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,280
Speaker 1: he's like ship shutting down Wayne's ability to get roles

1003
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: early on in his career. He's also constantly being like, no,

1004
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,359
Speaker 1: you're not talented, so nobody's gonna want you to act

1005
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: in their movies. Like your shitty at acting, You look

1006
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: like crap, you're fat. You know, he's like the worst. Yeah,

1007
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: and of course John Wayne loves him forever and takes

1008
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: care of him when he's sick and dying. But yeah,

1009
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: so friends speculated like this isn't Jensen who invinced the speculation.

1010
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: People who are close to both of them speculate that

1011
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,280
Speaker 1: Ford stops John Wayne from getting a job as the oss.

1012
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: Some will say it's revenge for what he did with Chattah,

1013
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 1: that he likes divorcing his wife. You know that Ford

1014
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 1: is just angry that he's getting a divorce because he's

1015
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 1: super catholic. Uh. Jensen notes that others speculated Ford didn't

1016
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: want John Wayne to get a chance to quote prove

1017
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: he was Ford's equal, so he just didn't want him to,

1018
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 1: like he wanted him to kind of look like ship

1019
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: for not being in the war, because otherwise he might

1020
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: look good it and then that's bad for Forward because

1021
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 1: it makes Ford less powerful in the relationship. I don't

1022
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: see why both can't be true. I think it seems

1023
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: like both or true. And he wanted Wayne to think

1024
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: he was. He wanted him in the war, and Wayne

1025
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: didn't even want to go. He sure didn't. That seems

1026
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: really clear that John Wayne did not want to go

1027
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 1: to fucking war. Um. And I I mean, look, I

1028
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: don't blame him, but yes it is. I don't. I

1029
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: don't cling to this kind of masculinity. Yeah, so I

1030
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: don't have the same, but it does seem like a

1031
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 1: bigal oversight for those who are waving Wayne flags at rallies. Still, Yeah,

1032
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: it's it's that's exactly like right, and it's going to

1033
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: get grocer later. Like obviously, as a general rule, I

1034
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 1: am pro draft dodging. I will say World War two

1035
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 1: is the one war where you're kind of questionable if

1036
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: you're dodging it because like some ship didn't need to

1037
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: get done, you know. Um. But generally speaking, I'm pro

1038
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: draft dodging, but not when you become like super pro

1039
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: war forever after that, then then you're being scummy if

1040
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 1: you draft dodge and are like nobody should have to

1041
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 1: fight in a war. That's fine, that's perfectly consistent. That

1042
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 1: is not where John Wayne's going to go, right, And

1043
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 1: your entire persona is crafted around sort of this American

1044
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: hero worship and you rely on that and you're winning

1045
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: these you know, battles on the frontier, you're forming a nation.

1046
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: You are literally playing soldiers fighting in the Battle of Iwajima.

1047
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 1: You know, that's like one of your iconic films. And

1048
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: like you, you didn't even wouldn't even make didn't even

1049
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 1: find out a way to make movies for the government

1050
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: during the war. Like right, Um, let alone do the ship.

1051
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: And by the way, Jimmy Stewart never a big action star,

1052
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 1: but fucking put up when it was time to put up.

1053
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 1: Put his fucking money where his mouth was. Um. Anyway,

1054
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: you know who else puts their money where their mouth is?

1055
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: Products and services? Who sup with this podcast? Who also

1056
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: helped carry out the bombing of Fortress Europe? Good on them?

1057
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: That's the that's the one promise that our sponsors make

1058
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: is that they have bombed German cities. Um, absolutely uh

1059
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: from it's the Italians problems with you know what I mean,

1060
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: they were already it was over, Yeah, dropping pasta on them,

1061
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: just way too much. Bombing of Napoli. Yeah, it was

1062
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: a lot of pretty cities get pretty fucked up here. Look,

1063
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: it's it's a messy war. Um so ads we're back

1064
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: so um so good ship. It's good stuff. John Wayne

1065
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: does like volunteer spends like three weeks visiting troops fighting

1066
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: in Guam. Like he does a little tour. He does

1067
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 1: some USO shit, but not not much. Sky i'man who

1068
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: is like a very positive biographer really likes John Wayne

1069
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: even notes that, like he didn't really do much in

1070
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: World War Two by the standards of other guys, even

1071
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 1: other guys who didn't join the military, he did less

1072
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 1: than them. He just visited troops and like flipped his

1073
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: pistol around a few times. And he doesn't visit a

1074
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 1: much like Bob Hope, right, who sucks bad person. There's

1075
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 1: a lot of like horrible regressive politics. But Bob Hope

1076
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: cannot serve in this period and like spends like his

1077
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 1: whole all of his time going to field hospitals and

1078
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: doing shows. Like there are guys who don't serve but

1079
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 1: still like put a huge amount of time into like

1080
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: keeping morale up for troops. John Wayne does a bit

1081
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: of that, but he he doesn't really want to take

1082
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 1: a break from his career to even do that. Um,

1083
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: he would visit USO hospitals to talk to wounded soldiers,

1084
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: who would often ask him, why aren't you in this war,

1085
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 1: Duke um, and he would he would be like, I

1086
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: have an old football injury. I knew he was back

1087
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: up boy. You know you ever heard a body surfing? Yeah,

1088
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: and we used to do in the Old West. Like

1089
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: every single soldier who landed at Normandy hadn't fucked themselves

1090
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,479
Speaker 1: up playing football as a kid, right, Like they didn't

1091
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: have pads back then. All of them were dead shoulder

1092
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: and back injuries. No, you are and fodder. You need

1093
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 1: to go now. Yeah, it's fine if you're back hurts,

1094
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 1: it'll be over suon Yeah god, um so he yeah.

1095
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: He sometimes would say that President Roosevelt had asked him

1096
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: to keep morale up by making more movies. This is

1097
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 1: super untrue, but he doesn't make a lot of movies. Um.

1098
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 1: And obviously this works out great for him career wise

1099
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: because all of the other leading men who might take

1100
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 1: roles for him are off fighting and in some cases dying. Um.

1101
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: You know, bily brilliant strategy. Have you seen gone with

1102
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: the Wind? I have you know the kid, the like

1103
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: fresh faced young kid who like marries Scarlett early in

1104
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: the movie and becomes uh like goes off to die

1105
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 1: and dies in the Confederate arm Yes, he actually dies

1106
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 1: fighting in World War two, Like he dies in combat. Yeah. Um,

1107
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: so this is again a lot of times you have

1108
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 1: like soldier like especially nowadays and when Vietnam comes around,

1109
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: like there will be moments and stuff and in Korea,

1110
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: like with Elvis, where it's very performative. This is not

1111
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: performative for most of the celebrities who join in World

1112
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: War Two. Clark Gable people, Yeah, Gable Gable did Gable

1113
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: weight ship. I'm mixing him up with the other one. Um,

1114
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: you said Cooper didn't. Yeah, Cooper did not. Clark Gable does.

1115
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: Clark Gable is like a fucking a gunner, like on

1116
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: a on a bomber plane. Um, which is one of

1117
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 1: the most dangerous jobs in the whole war. Um. You're

1118
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: like hanging in like a glass cockpit on the bottom

1119
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: of a plane, exposed to gunfire with no armor and

1120
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 1: if you get shot, you just get the air sucked

1121
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: out of you and pulled to the ground. It's a horror.

1122
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: Butler did that. Fuck Yeah, he fucking yeah, he sure did.

1123
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 1: Look he's not He's pretty right. Wing himself, but definitely hot,

1124
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: like we could we could be fair about that, comparing

1125
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 1: pieces of trap. I mean, like, that's what this show is.

1126
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:19,919
Speaker 1: It's though. It is though funny that Rhett Butler goes

1127
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: to war and like survives and the kid who dies

1128
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: and gone with the wind also dies finding um loops

1129
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: little on the nose, Hollywood. Um so uh. If you're

1130
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: surprised that the man who dodged the draft in World

1131
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 1: War Two, which is the only war in which that's

1132
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: arguably unethical, goes on to become a right wing icon,

1133
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 1: you should not be. What's interesting is that John Wayne

1134
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 1: himself would spend the rest of his life outraged by

1135
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: his own failure to serve. Whether it was venal profit

1136
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 1: seeking or simple cowardice, he saw it as the ultimate

1137
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 1: strike against his MACHINESMO and Ford never lets him forget it.

1138
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 1: Oh God. Perhaps the first expression of this comes in

1139
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 1: nineteen forty four, when he helps to create the Motion

1140
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 1: Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals or m

1141
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: p A. Now with a name like that, you know,

1142
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 1: some fucked up culture war bullshit is about to drop,

1143
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: and it sure did. See brown people will be killed

1144
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 1: in the in these films. Yeah, I mean it's more that,

1145
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 1: like these guys are hardcore anti communist, which if you're

1146
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 1: an anti communist in the US World War Two, you

1147
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: kind of got to sit out a little bit, like

1148
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 1: you gotta kind of keep quiet because the Soviet unions

1149
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: are ally you can't kind of you cannot be as

1150
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: unhinged in your attacks against communism for four years or so, um,

1151
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 1: because we we kind of need them to do all

1152
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 1: of that, because we need like twenty million of them

1153
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: are so to die fighting. Um. So nineteen forty four,

1154
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 1: they start this anti communist organization kind of near the

1155
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 1: end of the war, and John Wayne had not been

1156
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: political earlier in his career. He would later claim to

1157
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: have even had a socialist period. I don't know how true.

1158
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 1: I think that is. It's kind of a right wing

1159
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: thing to claim he used to be a socialist in

1160
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 1: college then he saw the light. I think he's one

1161
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: of the first guys to do that. Absolutely. This is yeah,

1162
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 1: that is such a playbook. Yeah. His friend Henry Fonda

1163
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,920
Speaker 1: later recalled quote, the Duke couldn't even spell politics in

1164
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 1: the thirties, So I think it's probably he just did

1165
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: not give a shit um. But in the early forties, again,

1166
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: he's got to do something to feel like a man.

1167
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: He's got to do something to like shore up his

1168
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: credentials as a tough guy, and being anti communists seems

1169
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 1: like the best bet. So he gets elected head of

1170
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 1: the Screen Actors Guild in the early forties. Um. And

1171
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 1: he claims that becoming the head of a union is

1172
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 1: the first time he starts to notice the deadly trend

1173
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 1: of on wrestling socialism. Yeah, so that's so perfect. That's

1174
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 1: also just so peak, like right wing icon idiot. Oh yeah,

1175
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: it's it's beautiful. Thanks to this union, I realized unions

1176
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 1: are too terrible. Yeah, except for this one and the police.

1177
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: Once you get union, So, once you get sensitized to it,

1178
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 1: he told an interviewer, you'd begin to be aware of

1179
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 1: cracks at our president, the flag patriotism. He described the

1180
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: attitude of his colleagues towards traditional Americana as quote a

1181
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: kind of sneering. Now this is up, you suck an asshole.

1182
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 1: This is all ship, he would claim later after he

1183
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 1: became a political figure. UM film critic and his story

1184
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: and Emmanuel Leave believes that guilt over his failure to

1185
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 1: serve in World War Two drove Wayne to right wing politics.

1186
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 1: There's ample evidence to suggest this. Friends of his, like

1187
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 1: Mary Saint John often gave telling anecdotes quote he was

1188
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 1: not the kind of man to dwell on it or

1189
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 1: talk about it, but you knew he did. You could

1190
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 1: see it in his face. Whenever anyone asked him about

1191
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 1: his war record, he wouldn't tell them that he had

1192
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: not served, and it made him feel like a hypocrite.

1193
01:06:55,560 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 1: So that's so perfect. Of course, you're gonna make up

1194
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 1: for your your feeling that you didn't defend your country

1195
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: by you utilizing the most bullshit prop of so called Americanism,

1196
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 1: which is defending yourself against communism. Yeah, and and oh

1197
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 1: it's so and it's so perfect, and it is like

1198
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 1: the parallels again to today two Trump's little bones burs.

1199
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 1: I hate to bring his name up again, but just

1200
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 1: it's so clear. And the people who are the most

1201
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: vitriolic are also folks who would never in their fucking

1202
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: lives fight for any cause. Yeah, it's the same ship

1203
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 1: with like George Bush, you know, getting getting a cushy

1204
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 1: family excuse not to actually fight in Vietnam. Um, you know,

1205
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's this but like super willing to

1206
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 1: send other people to fight, and what matters is the image.

1207
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, Like what you do doesn't matter. It's

1208
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: just like why you can you can pay for your

1209
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 1: daughter to have an abortion and also support ending the

1210
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: right uh to to to reproductive choice. Because it's not

1211
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 1: what you do that matters. It's what you say you

1212
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 1: know in public, and it's whether or not you have

1213
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 1: the wear the right hat. It's like Ben Shapiro with

1214
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 1: his cowboy hat and his big black truck. You never

1215
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 1: towed Ben Shapiro. You don't know how to toe, you

1216
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: know how to set a fucking tow hitch, Like, by god,

1217
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 1: you would panic if you had to change lanes with

1218
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: a trailer, Like but you got that characterization. Yeah, Ben

1219
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 1: haul like a fucking tin foot, little bit, little baby

1220
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 1: trailer just just once been show me you know how

1221
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 1: to use a truck? Literally? Tiny boat work? What is it?

1222
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: Small boats? Small boat work? Couldn't do small fishing for Marlin.

1223
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 1: Goddamn it. Go run some guns, John Wayne, So leave manual.

1224
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:55,760
Speaker 1: Leave the fucking film. Criticism claims that like this sort

1225
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 1: of shame is what drives Wayne to the m p

1226
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: A in nineteen. Like blockbuster war movies, doing this was

1227
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 1: a prominent and easily publicized way to frame himself as

1228
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: a warrior struggling against the great evil, when he had

1229
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 1: actually failed to do anything about the real great evil

1230
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 1: of the time. UM. He served as the president of

1231
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:17,759
Speaker 1: the organization starting in nineteen forty nine, now the year before,

1232
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 1: at age forty one, John Wayne was cast in a

1233
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:23,719
Speaker 1: film called Red River. This would be the first movie

1234
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 1: to feature Wayne as he is now most famous to

1235
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 1: millions of Americans as a gruff, hard edged, late middle

1236
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 1: aged cowboy because again he's aged like he looks like

1237
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 1: he's in his fifties in this because but also kind

1238
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:39,440
Speaker 1: of the perfect like American hero um, sort of unwitting,

1239
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: like I don't want to be here, um, like protagonist,

1240
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 1: which is something that we love. We love a guy

1241
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 1: he's about to retire, but he gets drawn out of

1242
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 1: retirement because he's got a fucking kid. Gas. Yeah, it's

1243
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: like you're sucking John McClain. He's balding and divorced and

1244
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 1: he's like exhausted, but then he's got to go murder

1245
01:09:57,200 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: some Germans. You know, we love that ship, Bruce Will.

1246
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 1: This did this perfectly. Yeah, he really did. He did

1247
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 1: everything right in his in his career politics. Probably I've

1248
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 1: never wanted to know what Bruce Willis beliefs about politics.

1249
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 1: It seems like that wouldn't make me happy. It's also

1250
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 1: changed in the last like ten years. I feel like,

1251
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: whereas like right wingers, we would think we're more right

1252
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:23,320
Speaker 1: wing in Hollywood like ten years ago, or just like, hey,

1253
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 1: that guy's pretty good. You know, he's fine. Yeah, it's

1254
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 1: it's it's the Arnold Schwarzenegger thing where it's like you've

1255
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: suddenly gone from being like an arch conservative to one

1256
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:35,600
Speaker 1: of the least crazy people talking about politics in America

1257
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: because everything has lurched so far to the right. It's

1258
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 1: it's great, it's fine, it's not going to cause any problems. Um.

1259
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:47,719
Speaker 1: So it's this John Wayne, this kind of tough older cowboy. Um,

1260
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 1: this old hand who he's like one of the terms

1261
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 1: he's he's a begrudging tutor for younger cowboys. Right, that's

1262
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 1: a big part of his appeal in these movies. He's

1263
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: taking some fresh faced young book under his wing. This

1264
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:00,719
Speaker 1: is the John Wayne. He's a star are at this point?

1265
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 1: This is the John Wayne that becomes an icon, right,

1266
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:06,519
Speaker 1: Like this is the John Wayne whose face is still

1267
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 1: plastered all over fucking merch tables at gun shows to

1268
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 1: this day. So his his career torpedoes forward at the

1269
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 1: same time as his anti communist activism lurches forward. He

1270
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:21,160
Speaker 1: serves three turns as president of the the the m

1271
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 1: p A until nineteen fifty two. Now, since this was

1272
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,200
Speaker 1: the height of the Second Red Scare, many of John

1273
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 1: Wayne's friends and many of the studio executives in particular,

1274
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 1: warned him that, like, hey, you might not want to

1275
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:34,760
Speaker 1: get into politics this much. It could kill you with

1276
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 1: the box office. Americans, whatever we feel about communists, may

1277
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 1: not want to see John Wayne, cowboy hero wearing a

1278
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:46,600
Speaker 1: suit talking to Congress about like your colleagues being socialists.

1279
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 1: Um so uh, John Wayne claimed, like it's one of

1280
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:56,439
Speaker 1: those things. The idea that like this is probably not true.

1281
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:58,599
Speaker 1: The idea that like he got a lot of pushback

1282
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:01,599
Speaker 1: saying he shouldn't get into right way politics is probably

1283
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:03,640
Speaker 1: a lie because John Wayne is the only one who

1284
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 1: claims it, and he only ever brings this up to

1285
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:08,879
Speaker 1: point out that but even then, I became the biggest

1286
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,960
Speaker 1: box office draw in Hollywood. After you know I started

1287
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 1: doing all this stuff. Like That's how he frames it

1288
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 1: as like they didn't want me to start being anti communists,

1289
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:19,719
Speaker 1: but once I did, that just made me more popular.

1290
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 1: Um yeah, once again trying to cancel me. First they

1291
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:29,600
Speaker 1: took Jenny, then they take my anti communist activism. He is,

1292
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 1: by the way, married to Chattah and has divorced Jenny

1293
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 1: at this point. Whether or not, like his kids today

1294
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:38,120
Speaker 1: will claim, I should note that he was a good

1295
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 1: dad and like stayed in their lives. I don't know

1296
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 1: what the cases some biographers have claimed other things, but

1297
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:47,519
Speaker 1: his kids are pretty positive about I mean maybe I

1298
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:50,439
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not gonna tell them what their lives

1299
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 1: were like. Um, he's certainly like I don't think they

1300
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 1: wanted for anything right, Like he didn't like like they

1301
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 1: benefited from the Wayne money. It's scene like so um so.

1302
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 1: Eugene Levy describes how he generally framed this to the press.

1303
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 1: Wayne said that those who warned him must have meant

1304
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:13,000
Speaker 1: it would ruin me with the Moscow fan clubs, because

1305
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:15,679
Speaker 1: when I became president of the Alliance, I was thirty

1306
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 1: second on the box office polls. But last year i'd

1307
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 1: skin it up near the top. It's very familiar right

1308
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 1: wing framing. Right, they tried to cancel me, but I

1309
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:27,519
Speaker 1: just it just made me more popular all that ship.

1310
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:31,919
Speaker 1: He's the perfect figurehead for not World War Two, arguably

1311
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,519
Speaker 1: the most righteous American war, but the Cold War the

1312
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 1: most exactly like unrighteous, like pillaging you know, Third World

1313
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 1: countries or Global South countries under phantom threats. I'm not

1314
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 1: saying it didn't get real at a certain point, but

1315
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:52,640
Speaker 1: like it was such a propaganda war because we have

1316
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 1: this one war that is unquestionably necessary, and he's like, nah,

1317
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,639
Speaker 1: that ain't me. But then we started invading these tiny

1318
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 1: little entrees and he's like, oh yeah, yeah, fun m up,

1319
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:10,440
Speaker 1: fuck um up, um yeah, it's cool. He he innvinced

1320
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 1: being James Woods in a way. So the part of

1321
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:16,559
Speaker 1: the second Red Scare that John Wayne was personally involved

1322
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:19,160
Speaker 1: in was the backlash to the pro Soviet movies that

1323
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 1: he made in the early nineteen forties. Members of the

1324
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 1: House un American Activities Committee HUAC were livid that studios

1325
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:30,280
Speaker 1: like MGM had made films celebrating the Russian war effort. Suddenly,

1326
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:32,720
Speaker 1: Hollywood stars were being called up to inform on their

1327
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:36,360
Speaker 1: fellow celebs for left wing sympathies leave you writes quote.

1328
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 1: It got to the point where Lela Rodgers, Jinger's mother

1329
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 1: and vice president at r KO, was asked to examine

1330
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 1: all screenplays for questionable content. She was proud to declare

1331
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 1: that she had found a line in the Tinder Comrade

1332
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: which stated share and share alike, that's the meaning of democracy.

1333
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:55,640
Speaker 1: Dalton Trumbo, who wrote the screenplay, later became one of

1334
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:59,200
Speaker 1: the Hollywood Ten. The friendly witnesses of HUAC included many

1335
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:03,440
Speaker 1: Hollywood celebrit such as Gary Cooper, who reportedly condemned communism

1336
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 1: because it was not on the level whatever that meant,

1337
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 1: or Adolph Minju, whose credo was that communism could be

1338
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 1: expressed by players by a look, by an inflection, by

1339
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:17,640
Speaker 1: a change in voice. So what that's what? Literally, like

1340
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: Trumbo gets canceled for ship like that, for saying like

1341
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 1: democracy is about sharing. Like that's like the most cancel

1342
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 1: culture America's ever got is what does to fucking yeah

1343
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:32,599
Speaker 1: exactly on American activities man back by the way, Oh

1344
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:35,719
Speaker 1: for sure, they're so horny to do this. Ronald Reagan

1345
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 1: was one of the guys who named the most names.

1346
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 1: He loved getting up in front of Congress and informing

1347
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 1: on his colleagues. Now, to to their credit, there were

1348
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 1: some very base fucking actors and actresses, including Katherine Heppard

1349
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 1: refuses to talk to the community. She's like the fun like,

1350
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 1: you can't make me do ship. I don't give a fuck,

1351
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 1: Katherine Heppern, What are you gonna do? Cancel Katherine Hepburn. No,

1352
01:15:56,400 --> 01:16:01,280
Speaker 1: you're fucking not um, And they don't. Uh uh. John Wayne,

1353
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 1: who is an avowed anti communist, does nothing, so he

1354
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 1: does not get up in front of who act This

1355
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 1: is not a principled stance. His biographer Iman claims that

1356
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:13,599
Speaker 1: this was in part that because like well he wasn't

1357
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:16,080
Speaker 1: really that judgmental about people, he wouldn't have wanted to

1358
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 1: cancel his colleagues because if he liked you, he didn't

1359
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:20,599
Speaker 1: care about your politics. You know these buddies with Orson Wells,

1360
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:25,160
Speaker 1: who was pretty left wing. Um. That's one justification for

1361
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:28,480
Speaker 1: why he doesn't get up in front of whoac UM.

1362
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 1: Blacklisted screenwriter Howard Coke, who's one of the people who

1363
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 1: gets caught up in this, theorizes that it was not

1364
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:38,879
Speaker 1: John Wayne's decision to stay out, but instead studio meddling

1365
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 1: that kept him from testifying. In some cases, the heads

1366
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:44,800
Speaker 1: of the studios made deals with the committee not to

1367
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:47,680
Speaker 1: put a certain individual on the stand publicly. That was

1368
01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:49,800
Speaker 1: true not only of so called suspects so what they

1369
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:52,799
Speaker 1: like to call the unfriendly witnesses, but also a friendly

1370
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 1: witnesses that the studio didn't want to have tainted by

1371
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 1: political publicity of any kind. Somebody like Wayne is a

1372
01:16:58,120 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 1: good example. How are you going to get pole rushing

1373
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: in to see him shooting down the apaches when they

1374
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:04,200
Speaker 1: start thinking of him as the guy wearing a suit

1375
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 1: and tie and saying, what a great job all these

1376
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:09,080
Speaker 1: seventy year old politicians with their glasses and bow ties

1377
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:14,559
Speaker 1: are doing defending America. Mixed message, So, I mean money

1378
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 1: is number one in his life at this point, and yeah,

1379
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 1: you know, and obviously coward is not going into World

1380
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:24,440
Speaker 1: War two, but also potentially just wanting to keep making money.

1381
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 1: It is also here's the thing, and this is gonna

1382
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:32,680
Speaker 1: sound weird, but it's kind of also a condemnation of

1383
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 1: him that he doesn't testify in front of who act

1384
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:39,120
Speaker 1: because it shows he doesn't really believe Carrie Grant, who

1385
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:42,160
Speaker 1: again goes and fights in World War Two, also a

1386
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:45,760
Speaker 1: right wing ship head. Carrie Grant's studio goes, don't get

1387
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:47,519
Speaker 1: up and testify in front of who ak, it's going

1388
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: to be bad for your image. But Carrie Grant, again,

1389
01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:51,760
Speaker 1: this is not a good thing to do. But he

1390
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 1: does believe it because he gets up and says fuck

1391
01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 1: you to the studio and testifies against his colleagues and stuff,

1392
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:01,959
Speaker 1: which is and again getting into like murky moral territory.

1393
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:05,400
Speaker 1: But I guess I'm saying it's more respectable to be

1394
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:07,680
Speaker 1: a right wing ship head who believes enough to hurt

1395
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 1: your career by it than it is to only be

1396
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 1: a right wing ship head when you think it's good

1397
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:14,519
Speaker 1: for your career. I guess that's where I'm landing here.

1398
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:17,080
Speaker 1: I feel you landing there. I I land more in

1399
01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 1: the like I'm glad he didn't snitch, And yeah, sure,

1400
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:24,599
Speaker 1: yes you needed into communism to fucking booster your career

1401
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 1: and go speak at some brunches, But good for you.

1402
01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:31,559
Speaker 1: Good and bad aren't as as meaningful. Here is just

1403
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:34,160
Speaker 1: the state that, like Carrie Grant was a guy who

1404
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:37,760
Speaker 1: believed in some things, John Wayne didn't. Right that that's

1405
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 1: more because like obviously yes, it's good to not testify.

1406
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:42,800
Speaker 1: It just is a note of like, how kind of

1407
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 1: empty he is? He's still punching women, guys don't. Don't

1408
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:50,519
Speaker 1: worry And I don't know Carry Grant probably right. I

1409
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:54,160
Speaker 1: don't know much about the guys still punching women. Maybe

1410
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:56,719
Speaker 1: not Jimmy Stewart, I don't. I want to believe he wouldn't,

1411
01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,840
Speaker 1: But I don't know much about Jimmy Stewart. Um he

1412
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 1: did different did was part of the bombing of Korea,

1413
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 1: So I don't know. Some some mixed stuff there too.

1414
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 1: Um So, yeah, it's weird as Scott, i'man rights. Being

1415
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:14,360
Speaker 1: seen as anti communist had real benefits for John Wayne

1416
01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:17,439
Speaker 1: in the Blacklist years that followed quote and so the

1417
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:20,559
Speaker 1: Blacklist arab began. There would be more hearings in nineteen fifty.

1418
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:23,559
Speaker 1: The result was that dozens were jailed, hundreds lost their jobs,

1419
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:27,120
Speaker 1: hundreds more left the country, some died. Every motion picture

1420
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 1: union from the Screen Actors Guild to the Screen Director's

1421
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 1: Guild ultimately capitulated to the Blacklist. All this would be

1422
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:36,679
Speaker 1: called by one writer, echoing Daniel Dafoe, the Plague Years.

1423
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:39,760
Speaker 1: Dalton Trumbo had another name for it. The time of

1424
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:43,040
Speaker 1: the Toad. During this period, the right wing press regularly

1425
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 1: ganged up on performers who had committed the terrible sin

1426
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:48,040
Speaker 1: of not serving in the military during World War Two.

1427
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 1: The hearst columnist Westbrook Pegler accused Danny Kay of not

1428
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 1: giving exactly his all during the war, and then added

1429
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:59,200
Speaker 1: the seasoning of anti Semitism by mentioning Kay's real name, Kaminsky.

1430
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 1: Peglar neglected to mention that many conservatives hadn't served John

1431
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 1: Wayne among them. By the way, don't come from my boy,

1432
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 1: Danny Kay. Don't you fucking come from my boy Danny Kay,

1433
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 1: Danny Kay Pegler? What the why are you pulling love God?

1434
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:19,759
Speaker 1: Pulling out the anti semitism for peace, for not going

1435
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:22,680
Speaker 1: and fighting in World War Two? Like what are you?

1436
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:26,639
Speaker 1: What are you talking about here? Yeah, it's it's awesome.

1437
01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:28,760
Speaker 1: So again, and this is part of the point that

1438
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:32,440
Speaker 1: people will make is that by being super pro anti communist,

1439
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 1: very right wing, he deflects a lot of criticism for

1440
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 1: the fact that he doesn't do anything in the war. Yep, Um, well,

1441
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 1: he gets the past because he's someone needs there Christian

1442
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 1: masculine identity. I mean, that's like he's more of an emblem.

1443
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 1: He's a symbol. Yeah yeah, he's like Batman, but worse,

1444
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:55,160
Speaker 1: a lot worse than bad. If Batman sees the bad

1445
01:20:55,240 --> 01:21:00,520
Speaker 1: signals like uh, I gotta gotta sees the batstick. Delasi's

1446
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:03,360
Speaker 1: like cuddling with the teenager he trafficked into the United States,

1447
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 1: and it's like, can someone else deal with that? Um

1448
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:12,280
Speaker 1: so with his colleagues blacklisted, John Wayne stars in an

1449
01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:15,519
Speaker 1: increasing series of right wing films, including nineteen fifty two

1450
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 1: Is Big Jim McClain, in which he played a heroic

1451
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 1: Huac investigator. In nineteen fifty four, he was cast in

1452
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 1: what would probably become the most shameful role of his career. Francesca,

1453
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:29,679
Speaker 1: are you ready for this? This is my favorite John

1454
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:37,679
Speaker 1: Wayne role. Genghis Khan. Hell yeah, just another white guy

1455
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:44,040
Speaker 1: taking an Asian actor's role. It's amazing. Somebody's like, who

1456
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:46,680
Speaker 1: are we going to get to pay Genghis Khan? You

1457
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 1: know who looks like a Mongolian warlord? John Wayne? John

1458
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:58,760
Speaker 1: Wayne middle now kind of fat John Wayne. It's he

1459
01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:03,400
Speaker 1: looks so silly in this. It's amazing. It's almost beyond parody.

1460
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:07,519
Speaker 1: How like racist this movie is. It's like, if you

1461
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,720
Speaker 1: were joking about racism in this period, you would like

1462
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:14,120
Speaker 1: make up John Wayne being Genghis Khan is like a gag.

1463
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:18,040
Speaker 1: But no, they really did it. Hell yeah they did.

1464
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:22,640
Speaker 1: Look at that Look at that mustache, those blue eyes. Unbelievable.

1465
01:22:23,439 --> 01:22:25,640
Speaker 1: Everyone needs to look this up right now. And I

1466
01:22:26,080 --> 01:22:29,639
Speaker 1: think we need to watch this high. Yeah, it's incredible that. Like,

1467
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:33,439
Speaker 1: obviously the most famous white guy who racistly plays an

1468
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:37,800
Speaker 1: Asian in this period is Mickey Rooney. But boy boy,

1469
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:41,160
Speaker 1: howdy is John Wayne nipping at his fucking heels in

1470
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:47,120
Speaker 1: terms of racist casting here? But also like Genghis is

1471
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:50,640
Speaker 1: the good guy? What because like n W, it's generally

1472
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 1: the hero. It's more just that like he's impressive, right,

1473
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:56,960
Speaker 1: I think that's probably like I've I watched this years

1474
01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:58,840
Speaker 1: ago as a kid, just because I heard about it. Like,

1475
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:00,960
Speaker 1: I think it's more of just like an historical epic.

1476
01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:05,040
Speaker 1: You're not trying to like, I don't know. Um. Also,

1477
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:08,880
Speaker 1: here's another fun fact. The more the role was originally

1478
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:14,799
Speaker 1: written from Marlon Brando, Oh you would rather see Brando

1479
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 1: is Genghis. Imagine Brando is Geges. This is so funny

1480
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 1: to be that's really funny. I mean maybe old Brando,

1481
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 1: like really old Brandon. I could see ye. Fat Brando

1482
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:30,360
Speaker 1: is gegus cot. Fat Brando not having to walk anywhere,

1483
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:33,880
Speaker 1: just being like a horse. You're just sitting on a

1484
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:39,680
Speaker 1: horse the whole time, not moving kill him, like I

1485
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:45,439
Speaker 1: get that, just stroking a long sort of spy white beard. Uh,

1486
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 1: that might have made sense. This is documentary about the

1487
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 1: making of The Isle of Dr Moreau, which is also

1488
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 1: an incredible Marlon Brando documentary. Among other things, he decides

1489
01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 1: that his character is secretly a dolphin and wears a

1490
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:00,719
Speaker 1: bucket on his head the whole movie, but never explains

1491
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:04,960
Speaker 1: it to anyone. It fucking rules Marlon Brando's like late career.

1492
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:09,920
Speaker 1: Brando is the greatest Hollywood actor there has ever been. Yeah,

1493
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:13,719
Speaker 1: it's amazing. It's just like when everyone wants your career

1494
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:17,280
Speaker 1: to stay alive except for you. Yeah, it's very funny.

1495
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:21,920
Speaker 1: Nobody hated Hollywood more than Marlon Brando, a man who

1496
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:25,000
Speaker 1: only ever made his money as an actor. It's also

1497
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:26,720
Speaker 1: he's going to be the hero of well, one of

1498
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:30,800
Speaker 1: the heroes of our third episodes Good good Times Anyway.

1499
01:24:31,160 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 1: The Conqueror. John Wayne as Genghis Khan not a good movie,

1500
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:38,000
Speaker 1: as this exerpt from the Guardians Film blog makes clear.

1501
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:41,559
Speaker 1: The film opens with Timushin as Genghis was originally known,

1502
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 1: intercepting a wedding procession of markets. No, not merecats. The

1503
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:48,639
Speaker 1: market lord has a tartar bride or tie Jane Hayward,

1504
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 1: but not for long. I feel this tartar woman is

1505
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:54,720
Speaker 1: for me. In tones, timushin my blood says, take her.

1506
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:57,760
Speaker 1: Few actors can make lines like this sound good, and

1507
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:01,360
Speaker 1: John Wayne wasn't one of them. Writer Oscar Millard wanted

1508
01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 1: to give the screenplay an archaic flourish, mindful of the

1509
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:06,280
Speaker 1: fact that my story was nothing more than a tarted

1510
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:08,080
Speaker 1: up Western I thought this would give it a certain

1511
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:10,920
Speaker 1: cash a and I left no lily unpainted, he said

1512
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:13,879
Speaker 1: in nine. It was a mistake I have never repeated.

1513
01:25:14,320 --> 01:25:17,080
Speaker 1: Poor old John Wayne has to prance about saying things

1514
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:19,880
Speaker 1: things such as I greet you my mother, where normal

1515
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 1: people would say hello mom. This might be why he

1516
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:24,640
Speaker 1: looks so miserable in every scene. You've got to do

1517
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:27,519
Speaker 1: something about these lines, he told Millard during filming. I

1518
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:31,720
Speaker 1: can't read them. It was too late. So one of

1519
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 1: the worst movies of all time. Very cringe but Francesca,

1520
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:39,880
Speaker 1: here's the good part. Do you believe in karma? Uh?

1521
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:43,760
Speaker 1: A little bit, a little bit. This is this is

1522
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:48,639
Speaker 1: a very calmer moment because while they're filming this movie,

1523
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:51,840
Speaker 1: they're they're in like Nevada in the desert, like making

1524
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:56,440
Speaker 1: this thing because I guess that's our best equivalent to mongolia. Um.

1525
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:59,360
Speaker 1: While they're making this, they are a hundred miles away

1526
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 1: from an attack mcbomb testing site. Uh. So they go

1527
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:05,040
Speaker 1: to the government They're like, hey, we got John Wayne

1528
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:07,519
Speaker 1: out here filming a movie. Is it safe to be

1529
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:11,600
Speaker 1: this close to nuclear bombs going off? And the Government's like, oh, absolutely, no,

1530
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:14,439
Speaker 1: you guys are fine. It's totally far away, not going

1531
01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 1: to be a problem, not gonna be a problem. So

1532
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:21,920
Speaker 1: it was a problem. The entire cast and crew of

1533
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:26,920
Speaker 1: The Conqueror get massive doses of radiation, like like they like,

1534
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:30,200
Speaker 1: they're right next to nuclear bombs going off for days,

1535
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:34,639
Speaker 1: you know, weeks as they film this. Don't worry, keep going,

1536
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:39,080
Speaker 1: it's gonna be good for the lighting. Yes, your burns

1537
01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:45,240
Speaker 1: look incredible, honey, that's great. So what was the Union

1538
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 1: doing at this point? Jesus, Yeah, it's been too gutted.

1539
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 1: They can't complain about geting nuked, or they'll get called

1540
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 1: out as being socialist. It's very funny that John Wayne

1541
01:26:56,320 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 1: gets nuked by the US government and spoilers. It's what

1542
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:02,519
Speaker 1: kills him. That's extremely funny. It's the funniest thing that

1543
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:06,120
Speaker 1: could possibly have happened. He gets he gets fucking nuked

1544
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 1: and irradiated while pretending to be Genghis Khan. That rules.

1545
01:27:10,040 --> 01:27:13,519
Speaker 1: That's incredibly funny. That is kind of like the spirit

1546
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:17,000
Speaker 1: of Genghis Khan. It is Genghis Khan was smiling down

1547
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:21,160
Speaker 1: from heaven like, yes, this is what I want. That

1548
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:25,040
Speaker 1: is amazing. Wow, And so okay, how much radiation are

1549
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:29,800
Speaker 1: we talking a funkload? Francesca? Wait so again. Recently it's

1550
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:32,439
Speaker 1: become a story that like a bunch of Russian soldiers

1551
01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:37,520
Speaker 1: probably got radiation set because they dug trenches in Chernobyl. Right, Chernobyl.

1552
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:40,320
Speaker 1: A lot of radiation also a lot less than there

1553
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:42,840
Speaker 1: was decades ago when it was new. These guys are

1554
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:47,360
Speaker 1: standing downwind of nuclear bombs as they go off, a

1555
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:53,760
Speaker 1: lot of radiation um the cast and crew of the Conqueror,

1556
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:57,080
Speaker 1: as well as a startling number of Americans like them.

1557
01:27:57,080 --> 01:28:00,479
Speaker 1: Because the US government nukes a lot of Americans, citizen's.

1558
01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:03,519
Speaker 1: They get known as down Winders in the decades to

1559
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:07,400
Speaker 1: come because they all get cancer. Um. By nineteen eighty one,

1560
01:28:07,479 --> 01:28:10,679
Speaker 1: this is film in fifty four, By nine ninety six

1561
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,040
Speaker 1: of the two cast and crew on the set had

1562
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:19,320
Speaker 1: developed cancer. Forty six of them, including John Wayne, had died. Um.

1563
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:25,679
Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. Within what time period again, thirty years,

1564
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:28,120
Speaker 1: a little less than thirty years, half of them have

1565
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:32,280
Speaker 1: cancer and a quarter of them are dead from cancer. Um,

1566
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 1: including John Wayne. He gets a couple of cancers right

1567
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:38,599
Speaker 1: first in nineteen sixty four, so ten years later it's

1568
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:41,280
Speaker 1: lung cancer. So maybe it was a smoking I'm sure

1569
01:28:41,280 --> 01:28:44,000
Speaker 1: the nukes didn't help. He finally dies of like a

1570
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:48,320
Speaker 1: horrible stomach cancer. So he probably dies in part at

1571
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:50,320
Speaker 1: least as a result of getting nuked on the set

1572
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:53,240
Speaker 1: of The Conqueror. Of all the sets, you know what

1573
01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:55,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't going to be a good one.

1574
01:28:55,920 --> 01:28:59,960
Speaker 1: It had to be the Gang Khan. It is extremely fun,

1575
01:29:00,240 --> 01:29:03,760
Speaker 1: though it is at least see. The one redeeming thing

1576
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:06,360
Speaker 1: I think about this is I don't it doesn't sound

1577
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:09,400
Speaker 1: like he did like a pigeon like accent, like some

1578
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:14,320
Speaker 1: sort of I don't mean stereotypical. I think he does. Ye,

1579
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:18,920
Speaker 1: so yeah, I guess that's better. I don't know that

1580
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:21,160
Speaker 1: I want to like I I don't certainly want to

1581
01:29:21,160 --> 01:29:23,280
Speaker 1: be saying what's better or worse. It all seems pretty

1582
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:25,719
Speaker 1: rough to me. No, I think we all agree everyone

1583
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:27,920
Speaker 1: on that set deserve to get nooked. I mean that

1584
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:34,680
Speaker 1: was fine that this happened. It's totally fine. Um, good stuff. Um,

1585
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:37,960
Speaker 1: and that's gonna that's gonna be our part two. Francesco,

1586
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:40,960
Speaker 1: We're gonna have you back for part three, but for

1587
01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:44,240
Speaker 1: right now, you want to plug your plug doblesh my god,

1588
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:48,400
Speaker 1: you guys check out the Bituation Room podcast. I promise. Well,

1589
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:51,479
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe we'll just watch Genghis Khan on

1590
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:56,200
Speaker 1: our next episode. We might, babe, who knows. I'm excited

1591
01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:58,640
Speaker 1: for the third chapter and all the they find in

1592
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:01,719
Speaker 1: his stomach. Oh yeah, app all the meat in his guts.

1593
01:30:02,120 --> 01:30:06,160
Speaker 1: All right, Well that's gonna do us uh and everyone else,

1594
01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 1: you know, until until next time. Uh stand directly next

1595
01:30:11,479 --> 01:30:13,920
Speaker 1: to a nuclear blast while the government says it's fine.

1596
01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:16,600
Speaker 1: Because you're John Wayne. You know the government is never

1597
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:21,840
Speaker 1: gonna lie to you. Oh my god, behind The Bastards

1598
01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:24,439
Speaker 1: is a production of cool Zone Media. For more from

1599
01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:28,120
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

1600
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:30,639
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

1601
01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.