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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to What Future. I'm your host Joshua

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Speaker 1: Topolski and my producer Lyra's here as as always who

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Speaker 1: I've been told I'm rude for not introducing. So there,

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Speaker 1: I've done it and now happy You're happy? Anyhow, Lyra,

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Speaker 1: I had this interesting like um phone experience, this like

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Speaker 1: what do you call it? Like a group chat? Not

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Speaker 1: a group chat? What do you call it when you're

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Speaker 1: on a meeting with a group of people? Conference call?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? Okay? I had this interesting phone experience recently,

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Speaker 1: this conference call that I was on non non podcast

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Speaker 1: or CALLINGDA and I felt like that there wasn't much

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Speaker 1: to talk about, and so I spent fifteen minutes just

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Speaker 1: telling people about an idea that I had just to

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing. I was worried that the call would

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Speaker 1: become uncomfortable if there wasn't like a topic that everybody

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Speaker 1: could talk about, and I felt very strongly that we

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Speaker 1: were kind of losing the we were losing the plot,

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Speaker 1: and so I just started talking about this idea that

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Speaker 1: I had, and I ended up talking for like fifteen

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Speaker 1: minutes straight up to the end of the call. And

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I think I made the right move.

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Speaker 1: But it's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of

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Speaker 1: pressure to have the kind of empathetic nature that I

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Speaker 1: have where I can really sense, I can really read

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Speaker 1: the room, but then also feel I'm responsible for the

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Speaker 1: for the vibe it's feel. I feel this a lot.

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Speaker 1: It's just the thing that normal people feel like. I

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Speaker 1: feel like I'm very aware of when there's like a

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Speaker 1: kind of awkward silence or discomfort or whatever. And then

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Speaker 1: I also feel like I have to produce some level

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Speaker 1: of content for that given situation that will even things

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Speaker 1: out or make things easier, or will like distract people

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Speaker 1: from the discomfort or whatever. And maybe, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: in some way, maybe I'm distracting myself from the discomfort.

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe maybe it's not that everybody else is

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Speaker 1: feeling weird. Maybe I'm feeling like uncomfortable in a situation.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I'm not like a I'm

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Speaker 1: not a psychologist. I mean, I trained as a psychologist,

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Speaker 1: but I don't consider myself one, and so I'm not

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Speaker 1: really sure. But at any rate, so so that's what

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Speaker 1: I was doing earlier today, and uh, you know, it

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Speaker 1: got me thinking about personal dynamics. And how you know,

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Speaker 1: the strange thing that we do, the strange dance that

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Speaker 1: people do. Whether you're in a relationship or you have

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Speaker 1: a friendship, or you have a group of friends, or

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Speaker 1: you're in a business setting, we have to like perform

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Speaker 1: all the time, right, And I'm not saying that that

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Speaker 1: everybody's fake, but but we're constantly sort of adjusting our

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Speaker 1: personality or our tone or our kind of mood for

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Speaker 1: the setting that we're in, which is like, if you

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Speaker 1: really step back and think about it as kind of

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Speaker 1: an unusual thing to do. Oh ship, hold on, hold on,

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Speaker 1: hold on, I'm getting a phone call. Hello, it's held funk.

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Speaker 1: This is his professor scientists. Okay, this is the professor.

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Speaker 1: He he does this, He is known to do this.

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Speaker 1: Just calling me in the middle of I have a

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Speaker 1: little bit of time on my hands, and I thought

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Speaker 1: i'd give you a call, because you know how much

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Speaker 1: I respect you. I don't Actually doesn't seem that you do.

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Speaker 1: Actually based on this call. You know, I say it

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Speaker 1: all the time. I told you i'd be recording, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: you call it anyway, So it seems like are you

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Speaker 1: recording right now? Yes? It seems like a lack of

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Speaker 1: respect to be honest, Prince Harry? What why what does this?

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Speaker 1: People I know who know him say he's a good dude. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he seems like a good dude, But why do you

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Speaker 1: get a spill of the family secrets? Like, oh, I see,

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Speaker 1: look at that. I don't appreciate it. Takes read an

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Speaker 1: article this morning, it was like, just shut up, shut up.

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Speaker 1: That's all he has is his family secrets. Without that,

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Speaker 1: he's got nothing. I was surprised to see how much

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Speaker 1: money he's making off all this stuff. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: agitates me. I'm a I'm a ConA silence guy. You

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Speaker 1: know me. Obviously I know a ton of shot on you.

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Speaker 1: I would never say it to anybody, right, you know

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Speaker 1: what I've done. You know where I've been, so I

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Speaker 1: know where the proverbial bodies are, but the only proverbial

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Speaker 1: to be clear, Uh, maybe a little bit. Here's what

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Speaker 1: I said about Harry. It's funny that you have this

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Speaker 1: opinion of Harry because we put on the documentary on

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Speaker 1: Netflix and I was like, I don't give a funk

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Speaker 1: about this person, and I don't care about Megan. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't even think of watching who cares? Right? I felt

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Speaker 1: the same way. Laura wanted to watch and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I really don't care, Like I'm not going to be

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Speaker 1: interested in this. And I have to say I did

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Speaker 1: become charmed by the story of their romance, and uh,

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Speaker 1: and then it's very charming and then give me no,

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Speaker 1: it's very sweet. They know they met on Instagram, which

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Speaker 1: is very unusual for a royal. I mean, I assume

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Speaker 1: Prince Andrew's meeting a lot of young people on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: Is that his name Prince Andrew? Was he the pedophile?

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Speaker 1: I think he is anyhow, Um, but and I was

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Speaker 1: charmed by their romance and then shocked by the behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes information I learned about how they treated Harry

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Speaker 1: and William when they were children. It's very it's very

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Speaker 1: bad environment for kids. But on the other hand, they're

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Speaker 1: fucking royals, so like, you can only feel so bad.

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Speaker 1: My mother used to say, and I believe it. There

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Speaker 1: are two sides of every street. That doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: every side of the street is the same size, but

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Speaker 1: there's two sides every street. You're he'd listen to the

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Speaker 1: one guy's telling you some horrific stories of growing up

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Speaker 1: in the Buckingham Palace Okay, how bad is it? How

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Speaker 1: bad is that? I guess I'd take a lot of

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Speaker 1: abuse if I could be a member of the royal family.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about it, all right, I'm gonna give you

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Speaker 1: five names. God oh no, in order of how much

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Speaker 1: you loathe them. I want to. I want to hear

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Speaker 1: the order because professor scientists, I'm private, but I will

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Speaker 1: reveal certain things about myself. I am a virgo and

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Speaker 1: I love list. Virgos are known as one of the

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Speaker 1: most insane astrological symbols. Really, yeah, I think so. Like

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Speaker 1: we're orderly, we're we follow orders, we like the rules.

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Speaker 1: When it is virgo season late August to late September.

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Speaker 1: You don't strike me as a rule follower. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I'm such a rule follower, are you? Yeah? I like

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Speaker 1: the rules, follow rules. Interesting. Here's the five names. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you might want to write them down, but you'll know

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Speaker 1: that I'm not going to write them down. So who's who? Okay?

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Speaker 1: In order? This is you're asking how much I loathe them?

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Speaker 1: Is that the question? Yeah? And when you got to

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Speaker 1: start with number five? And then I'm gonna build up

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Speaker 1: to the person you loathe the most. Here we go

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Speaker 1: you're ready, I'm ready, Ted Cruise, Kevin McCarthy, Lindsey Graham,

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Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell, Jim Jordan's. Go that's is that five? That's fine.

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Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell was kind start at the top because I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's a no brain no, I like the

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Speaker 1: suspensive Okay, hold on, hold on, Ted Cruise, Uh, Kevin McCarthy, Graham,

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Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell, Jim Jordan's. It's a fucking real murderers row

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Speaker 1: or whatever you call it. I mean, just a group

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Speaker 1: of some of the worst men alive. Soath Row. Jim Jordan,

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Speaker 1: I would say is a number five only because he

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Speaker 1: seems like useless and like he actually doesn't do anything,

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Speaker 1: and he's mostly just annoying. I mean, he seems like

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Speaker 1: an odious person who doesn't deserve a seat in um

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Speaker 1: any of our political houses. We are in agreement. He

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Speaker 1: would be in my number five, though I would tell

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Speaker 1: you some Ohio State wrestlers might put him number one.

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Speaker 1: Keep going, No, I mean, he's a bad guy, but

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Speaker 1: he's on the on the list of the people that

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Speaker 1: I was just presented with. I mean, they all make

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Speaker 1: me vaguely nauseous. Some of them make me just actually nauseous. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruise, Mitch McConnell, and Kevin McCarthy. The

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Speaker 1: remaining four correct, Oh my god, um, this is the

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Speaker 1: beauty of making a lift has a tough I'm gonna say,

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Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy at four really okay? All right? Ted Cruizes

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Speaker 1: for all right? Do you want my answer? Your answer, no,

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Speaker 1: I want your answer. You're right. I think Kevin McCarthy

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Speaker 1: is ultimately useless, and I think he will prove to

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Speaker 1: be useless in this term of Congress. I think you

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Speaker 1: will see that just how useless and ineffectual he is

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Speaker 1: in a leadership capacity. He's my four. I would say

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Speaker 1: three is Lindsay Graham. Lindsay Graham is uh an obnoxious

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Speaker 1: person who is an insane liar on so many levels.

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Speaker 1: And also, I would say the remaining three the vibe.

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Speaker 1: When you say the vibes are off, I mean maybe

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Speaker 1: you I don't know if you've heard this. This This is

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Speaker 1: an expression that people use all the time these days.

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Speaker 1: These guys that there have never been more of a

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Speaker 1: set of the vibes are off guys that I can

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Speaker 1: think of. So okay, so Kevin McCarthy, I know you disagree, Um,

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Speaker 1: Lindsay Lindsay Graham, I would say, is is the in

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Speaker 1: the third position? I mean, this is a no brainer.

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Speaker 1: Ted Cruzes too. I've heard friends of mine in politics

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Speaker 1: off the record, well off the record, who the hell

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Speaker 1: am I who described Ted Cruise? Guys on the right

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Speaker 1: say he's just the most miserable personal life. I have

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Speaker 1: no doubt, I mean, I have no doubt that Ted

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Speaker 1: Cruise is this miserable, insufferable. Ted Cruise is the biggest

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Speaker 1: dormat in politics as far as I'm concerned. And he's

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Speaker 1: also he's just I mean, the guy. Did Trump? Actually,

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Speaker 1: I tend not to really read Trump, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I have no Trump question, no Trump observation. I'm tired

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Speaker 1: of it. He's gone, He's gone. Is he he might

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Speaker 1: be back? Actually no, he's not coming back. It's slipping away.

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Speaker 1: He's gone. He's pretty much gone. But did he actually

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Speaker 1: called Ted Cruz's wife infer or call her ugly? He?

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Speaker 1: I think he inferred it, but it was such a

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Speaker 1: strong inference that it would be impossible not to. He definitely,

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Speaker 1: he definitely called her ugly. Obviously, I know you're from Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 1: That's true, and I know in your city of Pittsburgh

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Speaker 1: those are fighting words. Well, it depends on if you're

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Speaker 1: a fighting type. You know, I like to diffuse situations

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Speaker 1: with words. You know you've never thrown a punch in

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Speaker 1: your life? Have you ever been sucker punched? Yes, I've

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Speaker 1: been soccer punched. I was punched in the back of

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Speaker 1: the head when I was in third grade by this

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Speaker 1: dickhead kid. Third grade was a bad time for me.

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Speaker 1: It's the back of the head. Have you ever been

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Speaker 1: punched in the face? Frontal sucker punch? Now? I don't

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Speaker 1: think so. I don't think. That's not my style I have.

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Speaker 1: I'm more like talking people out of punching me. That's

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Speaker 1: more of my style. Have you ever sucker punched anybody?

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Speaker 1: Uh No, I would never succer punch somebody. That doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem like a good move. Everybody should get sucker punched

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Speaker 1: in life. I've been soccer punching. It's not great. I

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Speaker 1: gotta tell you, it's very uncool. And if everybody should

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Speaker 1: sucker punch somebody in it's bad advice. Okay, So obviously

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Speaker 1: Ted cruz Is is a number, just a walking turn

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Speaker 1: and but Mitch McConnell is legitimately evil. Mitch mc donald

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Speaker 1: is legitimately one of the worst guys who's ever been

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Speaker 1: a part of politics in America. And I think just

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Speaker 1: has spent an enormous amount of time in politics crafting

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Speaker 1: some of the worst policies and agendas and um promoting

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Speaker 1: the worst people. And also it should be said, we'll

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Speaker 1: lay down happily for Trump or people like Trump given

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Speaker 1: even just a minor notion that they could be in power.

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Speaker 1: So that's my list. Mine is Jim Jordan's. Then I

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Speaker 1: go to Lindsay Graham. Okay, interesting, and then I go

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Speaker 1: to Ted Cruz. Both of them fectless, horrible, horrible, factless people,

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Speaker 1: but not in any great position of leadership. I mean,

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Speaker 1: who really leads as a senator? Come on, doesn't happen

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Speaker 1: too often? Okay, I get it right, Oh, this is

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Speaker 1: this explains Kevin McCarthy's position on your list. Then, but

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Speaker 1: then then I gotta go Mitch McConnell. And then yes,

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Speaker 1: then the top of the hip parade for Kevin McCarthy.

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Speaker 1: That's crazy. I mean that's crazy because there's no way

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Speaker 1: that Kevin McCarthy has exerted more awful power than Mitch McConnell.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Kevin McCarthy is like the ship head of

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Speaker 1: the day. I'm not saying it like Mitch McConnell's the

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Speaker 1: ship head of the of the century. It's one in

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Speaker 1: one bad leadership, Wennyway. I could go on them. But

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Speaker 1: here's why McCarthy at the top of my list, because

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Speaker 1: I live in Los Angeles. Another factoid that I'm going

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Speaker 1: to reveal. I gotta see Kevin McCarthy's face in the

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Speaker 1: LA Times all the time, makes me really, does he

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Speaker 1: live in Los Angeles? Well, he's a he's a Californian,

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Speaker 1: so he gets coverage. Is he a California And I

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Speaker 1: don't know anything about him, to be honest, And his

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Speaker 1: district is in California? Is that right? I honestly like,

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Speaker 1: And that's news to me. I hadn't even considered that

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Speaker 1: as a fact. That's interesting. I mean I didn't even

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Speaker 1: I didn't even think of that. I just think of

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Speaker 1: him as this kind of floating, um, useless formless orb.

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Speaker 1: This is another thing that's agitating me. And I'm tempted

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Speaker 1: to say pop quiz, but I don't know if it

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Speaker 1: necessarily works as pop quiz. But Joshua, as a man

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Speaker 1: who has not devoted your life to professional sports, can

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Speaker 1: you explain to me, as a person who used to

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Speaker 1: devote their lives of professional sports that is increasingly growing

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Speaker 1: going away and growing up art from professional sports, what

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Speaker 1: the fund is this country's fascination with professional sports. Please

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Speaker 1: explain it to me. That's a great question. I'm growing

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Speaker 1: to really resent them. Can I say something controversial? The

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Speaker 1: other day when this guy had a serious injury on

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Speaker 1: the football field, horrible situation, but I didn't know. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't watching it. I started getting texts and you know,

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Speaker 1: emails and whatever. People were like did you see this?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, and saying and this is gonna sound horrible,

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Speaker 1: But I just thought, is this that weird? Like I'm surprised,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, I'm surprised that in the sport where

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Speaker 1: people are regular concussed so much that they become like

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Speaker 1: mentally ill and unstable and like kill their families or

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Speaker 1: whatever and kill themselves, is it that surprising that somebody

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Speaker 1: like got knocked down or fell down or whatever and

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Speaker 1: didn't get back up. It's one of the most violent

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Speaker 1: sports in the world. Again, I don't want to be

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Speaker 1: like a kill joy. You're you are burying a little bit.

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Speaker 1: He had an art attack on the field. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: like he got knocked in, didn't get up. Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm surprised. I'm surprised that more people don't have a

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Speaker 1: heart attack on the field. I mean, if I was

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Speaker 1: like beating the ship out of you every night for

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Speaker 1: like six nights in a row, you probably would have

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Speaker 1: a heart attack eventually. Like listen, I'll be honest with you. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you know. I'm not a professional sports fan, though I

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Speaker 1: did recently consider becoming a soccer guy, which is a

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Speaker 1: type of personality that I think one I'm going to

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Speaker 1: implore you to do that. No, I'm not gonna do that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not the best sport in the world,

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Speaker 1: European football. Maybe it's I'll tell you something please. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that I was from Pittsburgh. That is true,

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Speaker 1: and I spent a couple of years watching the Steelers

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Speaker 1: with a friend of mine who is a super fan.

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Speaker 1: Familiar with super fans, the person who said who was

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Speaker 1: insanely obsessed with the fate of the Steelers or a

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Speaker 1: sports team. I used to be one of those people. Sure.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he kind of like sold me on this

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Speaker 1: idea that it was fun to watch the Steelers play football.

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Speaker 1: And I spent two seasons, full seasons, watching football with

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Speaker 1: him and getting completely wrapped up in the drama of

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Speaker 1: what was happening on the gridiron as they call it.

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Speaker 1: Each of those two years culminated with the Steelers getting

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Speaker 1: into the playoffs and then losing and it being a

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Speaker 1: huge disappointment. I felt this immense wave of sadness and anger,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, how come we didn't do it?

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Speaker 1: We didn't go all the way or whatever. And then

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Speaker 1: at year two, once it happened, I realized, why am

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Speaker 1: I willingly subjecting myself to this feeling of disappointment and

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Speaker 1: anger that has no relation to my actual life in

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Speaker 1: any way, shape or form. And all I need to

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Speaker 1: do is look away and it disappears and never again

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Speaker 1: impacts my personal life whatsoever. And I realized at that point,

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Speaker 1: like people who really invest time in sports are actually

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Speaker 1: like doing a kind of form of self harm. Really,

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Speaker 1: when you think about it and listen, maybe a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who listen to this, you know, we'll hear

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Speaker 1: this and be upset with me. But I just think

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Speaker 1: it's like, who cares? Who fucking cares? The lows are

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Speaker 1: lower than the highs are high. But I will say

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Speaker 1: that this thing that you're referring to with Damar Hamlin

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Speaker 1: is crystallizing it for me as well, is that he

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Speaker 1: clearly is a wonderful kid, and thank God he's alive.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I just want to say, I'm not

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Speaker 1: knocking the guy, but there's people out there shortening their

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Speaker 1: lifespans dramatically every weekend, and I just have a hard

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Speaker 1: time cheering for it. Knowing that a lot of these

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Speaker 1: guys are dying at five. It sickens me. Yeah. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're also talking about the country that had like thirty

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Speaker 1: nine mass shootings in twenty six days or something, So

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Speaker 1: I like the honestly violence on the football field or

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Speaker 1: whatever that people are doing to themselves. This actually seems

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Speaker 1: like a kind of vacation by comparison to the rest

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Speaker 1: of American life. I'm just I'm a negative Nellie today.

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Speaker 1: Just today. I wouldn't say it's just today. You have child.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to reveal that on the air, but yes,

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Speaker 1: I have a child. Is your child's smarter than I think?

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Speaker 1: She is. She's very smart. Yeah, but she's still a child.

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Speaker 1: She's she's a child. This idea that we indoctrinate these

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Speaker 1: kids watching all this violence. We don't let her watch that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course not. I'll tell you something you want to

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Speaker 1: know about my kid. The other day I went into

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Speaker 1: she has an office. We gave her an office because

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Speaker 1: she's got a lot of work to do. She's eight,

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Speaker 1: by the way. She's been working on a script. She's

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Speaker 1: writing a musical. I think the title is called Perfect Princess.

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Speaker 1: But at any rate, I went in. It was like

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Speaker 1: eight o'clock, which is like basically her bedtime, and I said, look,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, we gotta wrap it up at the

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Speaker 1: time for bed. And she was like she was sitting

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Speaker 1: in her computer like with her head down and her

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Speaker 1: hands like on her forehead. Like she'd been like like, oh,

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Speaker 1: what the fuck. I'm like, what's wrong? Are you okay?

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Speaker 1: And she was like, I've been working so much And

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Speaker 1: I was like, you know, like you don't have to,

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Speaker 1: you can take a break. She's like, no, I have

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Speaker 1: to finish this. Yeah. You know. It's like she kind

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Speaker 1: of does it to herself, though I will say she

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Speaker 1: kind of is tortuned herself with all this hard work.

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Speaker 1: But I do think wait, wait, wait, wait slow, dunl

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Speaker 1: wait and you what said okay, sweetie and shut the

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Speaker 1: door and walked away. Basically, it sounds like bad parenting.

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Speaker 1: By the way, She's like, I gotta I gotta finish this,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, all right, that sounds like absolutely horrible parenting.

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Speaker 1: I know. It's like when you're you're trying to get

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Speaker 1: a project finished, it's the end of the day, and

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Speaker 1: you just kind of power through it. I said, listen,

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Speaker 1: you know, do what you gotta do. But uh, remarkably

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Speaker 1: cavalier when her Christmas presence was a printer so she

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Speaker 1: could print like the script that she's wearing on you

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Speaker 1: please tell me your bullshit? What do you mean? No,

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Speaker 1: I'm serious, a thousand percent serious, and she loved it.

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Speaker 1: This is bad. We bought our printer because she kept

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Speaker 1: using Laura's and it was like constantly running out of

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Speaker 1: ink and ship and we're like we're having to run

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Speaker 1: and get the paper off of it. This is really horrible. Listen,

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Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with this, to be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, this is just like you endorsed it I've

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Speaker 1: just tried to support her in her Endeavor's all right,

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Speaker 1: you've interrupted my podcast. I was in the middle of

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Speaker 1: something very important. Is there anything else here that you know,

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Speaker 1: as I do respect you, but have you watched The

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Speaker 1: Last of Us? Well? Okay, first off, First off, I

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Speaker 1: played the Last of Us and I think you should

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Speaker 1: know that it's an interesting phenomenon to see people watching

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Speaker 1: The Last of Us and experiencing it having played through

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Speaker 1: both the Last of Us original game and the sequel,

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Speaker 1: The Last of Us two. The answer to your question

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Speaker 1: is yes. But also I have said for a long time,

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Speaker 1: I have been talking about for a long time that

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Speaker 1: video games are a new art form that is in

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Speaker 1: no way has not been given the credit or the

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Speaker 1: stage that it deserves. I think people still put gaming

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Speaker 1: in this category of you know, that's for kids, or

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Speaker 1: that's for you know, guys to like, you know, blow

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Speaker 1: each other away, and some like shooter or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: it's like very dismissed. And yet I think gaming is

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Speaker 1: one of the most important news storytelling forms that has

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Speaker 1: ever existed, and it's only getting more interesting and exciting,

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Speaker 1: and we've barely scratched the surface of the possibilities of

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Speaker 1: that kind of narrative storytelling and the Last of Us.

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Speaker 1: When I played it was a unbelievably devastating, completely fucked

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Speaker 1: up experience, like one of the most overwhelming emotional experiences

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Speaker 1: I've ever had playing a video game or doing anything

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Speaker 1: for that matter. It sounds like you're gonna cry, You're

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Speaker 1: gonna get weepy on me right now. No, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna shed tears of joy because I don't get

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Speaker 1: weeping on me. Whatever. Okay, but here's what's interesting. Here's

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Speaker 1: this interesting. The show is as interesting as the game,

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Speaker 1: and yet I'm enjoying the show. It is more stressful

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Speaker 1: because in the game you had choices. In the game,

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Speaker 1: at least you had the feeling that you were inhabiting

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Speaker 1: these characters and you could make decisions. In effect, the

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Speaker 1: outcome watching the show is kind of brutal because you

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Speaker 1: just have to sit back and take it and so anyhow,

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Speaker 1: So that's my that's my commentary on it. But I

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Speaker 1: think it's a terrific, terrific show, and honestly, like, I

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Speaker 1: think a great decision to base what I gotta go

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Speaker 1: back to something. I'm not a gamer. You sit on

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Speaker 1: a couch and I appreciate gaming, but you sit on

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Speaker 1: a couch. I sit on an Eames lounger. Actually, you

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Speaker 1: did you say you actually identify with the characters? I

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00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 1: don't know if I use those words. I think you

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00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 1: just said that. Maybe I might want to think twice

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Speaker 1: about that. Now, this is one. This is what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about. You're missing a whole world of storytelling that

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00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 1: is so interesting. I could watch it and enjoy the story. Now,

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Speaker 1: you just don't immerse myself. Don'tund immerse yourself in a

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Speaker 1: symbiotic relationship with the character on the screen. I think

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Speaker 1: you should. I think you should. I think you should

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Speaker 1: experience that. Maybe if the Professor wouldn't be so angry

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Speaker 1: if they did. Maybe, maybe if you maybe if at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, you could just unwind by,

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Speaker 1: you know, having to Here's where I'm going. Yeah, all right,

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Speaker 1: you know that the professor believes in conspiracies so much

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Speaker 1: so I don't even call them conspiracies. I call them facts. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's a bold statement, but all right, I'll allow it.

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Speaker 1: Have you watched The Fantastic Fun Guy the documentary? No,

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Speaker 1: what is that? You gotta see this? I mean it's

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Speaker 1: seemingly related to the last of us, which is relative

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Speaker 1: to the last of us. There's a dude up in

423
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 1: the Pacific Northwest who is growing fun Guy and explaining

424
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: fun Guy in a very simplistic fashion. Even the professor,

425
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a professor of humanities, not thought of,

426
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 1: not fun guy, not fun guy, and apparently fun Guy

427
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: could fix the world, cure all ills. John, I'm just

428
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 1: gonna gaze at that with the perspective of a journalist,

429
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 1: which is, um, I of what a package looks like,

430
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 1: a story package, and that is like, you know, also,

431
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: I know what my package looks like. Just straight up okay,

432
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: but um but people love to conflate and condense and

433
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: simplify very complex things. I'm sure that there are amazing

434
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: qualities of all sorts of fun Guy that exists. You

435
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 1: don't believe in blueberries either, Keep going, No, No, I

436
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: think blueberries are great. I'm sure they have wonderful antioxidant qualities.

437
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 1: But like, just let me back up from this. I

438
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: believe that the medical community is suppressing Yeah, that's a

439
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: fucking great story. It doesn't make money for them. Keep going,

440
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: it's a great story. But here's the thing. You're pro

441
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: big pharma. No, I'm I'm pro complicated answer. Here's the thing.

442
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: Everybody's like the world's gonna end with a zombie apocalypse

443
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: or a nuclear holocaust or whatever it is. Here's the fucking, sad, strange,

444
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: long truth, which is the world's going to end slowly,

445
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 1: in horrible, just slow moving chunks like COVID. The world

446
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: is ending all the time. And also not and it's

447
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: not going to be the exciting flash of nuclear holocaust

448
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: that we think it's gonna be. It's not gonna be

449
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: the revelation that zombies exist or whatever. And and in

450
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 1: the same way, when I hear something that's like there's

451
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: this one thing like the electric vehicle or whatever, it's

452
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: been suppressed by big oil, my brain immediately just goes

453
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: to this place that's like, there's never a simple answer,

454
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: and the idea that we want the simple answer that

455
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: there could this panacea that exists that is the end

456
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 1: to our woes or is the beginning of them in

457
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: a major way, it is never that. It is never that,

458
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: and historically is never that. And I think historically the

459
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 1: world's never ended exactly, the world has never ended as

460
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: far as we know, and yet there have been people

461
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: talking about an ending in a nuclear conflagration or some

462
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 1: version of that. Oh, but I mean, listen, I think

463
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 1: the problem is that we have to sit here boared

464
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: out of our fucking minds. I think actually COVID is

465
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 1: the greatest example of buddy, you're about to go to

466
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: a dark place. What. No. I think it's the greatest

467
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: example of how unexpected and truly boring the end of

468
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: the world. Well, we'll actually look which is not like

469
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: we're fighting in the streets over me you know, resources

470
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: like eggs or water or whatever. We are going to

471
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: fight over water something, I mean. No. And the thing

472
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: that was most confusing about COVID is nobody expected that

473
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: the apocalypse would be like you gotta sit in your

474
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: house and play the Last of Us, you know, which

475
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: is what I did. During COVID read a little book

476
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 1: called The Next hundred Years, but really brilliant geopolitician named

477
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: George Friedman. All right, I'll do that, he lays, He

478
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: lays it all out. But we're gonna go to war

479
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 1: over water. No, we're not. We're gonna go to war

480
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: over water. Someday it's gonna happen, I promise you. We're

481
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: not going to go to war over water. I promise

482
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: you were not. You know, it's gonna happen something so

483
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: much dumber than that. It's so much dumber. We're gonna

484
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 1: convent a substance that like lets people you know, I

485
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: don't know, run really fast and then it turns out

486
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: that like shreds your legs or something. Everybody's gonna have

487
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: their legs shredded. It's like that. It's gonna be that

488
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: actually is really funny. You know. They're like Nike released

489
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: a new shoe that everybody's buying because of me. You

490
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: can run like twice as fast and then turns it

491
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: turns your legs into toothpicks. That's how the world's could end.

492
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: The professor was have been a bad mood, and now

493
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: I feel better. That made me laugh. My work here

494
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: is done. All right, I'm ready. I'm ready for more.

495
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: Some of these are a little bit more esoteric than others.

496
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: I love that there's a lot of birds in the world. Correct, Yeah,

497
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: there are a lot of birds. There are a lot

498
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: fewer than there used to be. Actually, a lot of

499
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: birds have gone extinct. A lot of birds die. Correct, Yeah,

500
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: why don't we see birds all over the planet. When

501
00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: was the last time you saw a dead bird on

502
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: the floor? I literally have cleaned up hundreds of dead

503
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 1: birds from around my house. Yes, I have, because I

504
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: have a house that's partially half of it is glass,

505
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: and they fly into the window all the time and

506
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: I have to clean them up. Yeah, but that's like

507
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: I'm talking about natural causes. Why don't we see more

508
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: dead birds laying around? What do you mean? Like? Where

509
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: would you see it? Like on the street? On the streets,

510
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: there's quadrillion around New York. You'll see a bunch of

511
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: dead birds. You'll see birds being eaten by rats on

512
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: the straight of New York. You're being obstinate right now.

513
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: When was the last time you were filthy drunk? Filthy drunk? On?

514
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: This is interesting? You know I've been smoking a lot

515
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 1: of weed lately, so but also drinking. So last time

516
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 1: I was filthy drunk? Filth filthy drunk? Well, what do

517
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: you consider filthy drunk? Have to be uh carried to

518
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: your front door? Oh no, I don't get that drunk

519
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: had the keys taken away from it? Nobody takes keys

520
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: from me. That doesn't happen. There's nobody around to take

521
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: keys from me. I don't have enough friends to take

522
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: the keys away. It's more like I'm on my own,

523
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: you know when I'm If I'm filthy drunk, It's been

524
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: a long time filthy drunk. I mean what you're describing

525
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: as a person who's in distress, great distress, he needs

526
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: to seek help. Maybe two or three times in my

527
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: life have I been that drunk. I've never had the

528
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: keys taken away from me. Can I tell you something? Actually,

529
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: one of my problems is with drinking, and this has

530
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: been verified by people close to me, is that, uh,

531
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: nobody knows when I'm drunk or how drunk I am.

532
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,719
Speaker 1: I'm not shower as they say when it comes to drunkenness,

533
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: and it's only like if I'm like absolutely blackout level,

534
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: like incapacitated, that you know how drunk I am. So

535
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: everything up to the point where I can, like I

536
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: fall asleep and I'm dead to the world. But that

537
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: barely happened. Do we as a society no too much? Uh?

538
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: We as a society have access to too much information.

539
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: It's not the same as knowing too much. Knowing too

540
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: much suggests that you've learned something thing getting a piece

541
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: of information. It's not the same thing as learning something.

542
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: And I would say that as a society we have

543
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: too much unfettered, unfiltered access to information that cannot be

544
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: judged or gated, and that is a real problem. It

545
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 1: seems to me like Dick Cheney and George Bush are

546
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: getting a pass. Agree or disagree, definitely, definitely their their

547
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: war criminals. But you know, war criminal plus time equals

548
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: lovable old head of state, which is what has happened

549
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: to Dick Cheney and George Bush. But I mean, you

550
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: have to you have to remember George Bush is a

551
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: real character for me and for you probably, But for

552
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: people who are like nineteen years old, that person doesn't exist.

553
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: They are out of the frame. It's like Henry Kissinger,

554
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: Like there are still people who talk about Henry Kissinger

555
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: being a war criminal, and I'm sure that's true. My

556
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: awareness of Henry kis injury is I have somewhat of

557
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: an awareness of him. Someone who is nineteen or twenty

558
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 1: or one or twenty five or even thirty is probably

559
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: like almost completely unaware of his existence. And George Bush

560
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: is kind of in the same George W. Bush is

561
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: in the same zone, Like, what did he do? Nine

562
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: eleven is fading in the rear view mirror. I mean,

563
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: what's the nine eleven to COVID? You know, what's the

564
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: nine eleven to the war with Ukraine? The Russian War

565
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: with Ukraine? At any rate, you know, our memories are short,

566
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: no matter how much ship you see on the internet,

567
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: our memories are very short. And so George Bush is

568
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: like that guy he used to be president who does

569
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: those funny paintings, true, dad, I mean, and listen, look

570
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: at how far we've come in the era of George Bush.

571
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: You've got fucking Katrina. You've got Kanye on television with

572
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: Mike Byers looking as uncomfortable as anybody has ever looked

573
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: in the history of humanity. And Kanye is like, George

574
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: Bush hates black people, which is I'm sure a true

575
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: And now like kN he's like Hitler is cool. You know,

576
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: It's like, that's where we are, Okay, you wanna talk

577
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: about fucking short memories. You wanna talk about the timeline

578
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: that we're looking at. We have gone in a short

579
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: period of time from George Bush hates black people too,

580
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: Kanye saying, I like Hitler, who, by the way, I

581
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: needn't remind you did not like black people anyhow. You

582
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: just led me into my final question. Oh wow, Okay,

583
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: because I do often describe you as a futurist, did

584
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: you see Kanye coming? Well, that's a broad question. Did

585
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: you see the d evolution of Kanye coming? I don't

586
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: think anybody Well, okay, let me let me back up

587
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: here and answer this question appropriately. Kanye as an artist

588
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: was always surprising us. I would say one thing about

589
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: Kanye West you can say is that he was consistently inconsistent,

590
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: consistently so prising. Did I see Kanye saying that he

591
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: liked Hitler? Uh? I guess I didn't have that on

592
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: my Bengo card, you know, or whatever. I love Bengo

593
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: by the way. Uh I was like, you know what

594
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: I think is gonna happen. Kanye is gonna get really

595
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: into Hitler. Though, I will say this, and this is

596
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: not a defensive Kanye. Apparently he has a long history

597
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: of of sort of like praising like Nazis or Hitler

598
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: or something like that, you know, and like there is

599
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: a I'll say this, like like there is a consistent

600
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory against the Jews that is prevalent in I

601
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: mean it's prevalent. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion

602
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: is still a thriving document. You said you like conspiracy.

603
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: It's one of the most consistent and thriving conspiracy documents

604
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: that exist, right, which is the Jews control the world

605
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: and we drink the blood of babies or whatever, you know,

606
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: which is true, by the way, for the record, we do.

607
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: But the fact that people the fact that people are

608
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: talking about it is obviously uncool and and and problematic. No.

609
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: But like, but here's what I'll say, many many pop artists,

610
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: this is like, and again I'm not making excuses, there

611
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: are a lot of pop artists who have flirted with

612
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: like fascism as a almost like a stylistic position. Like

613
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: David Bowie was really into it, you know, like there's

614
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: a whole period of his career where he was sort

615
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: of like interested in flirting with ideas of fascism and

616
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: the fashion of you know, no no pun intended of fascism.

617
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is? Why do you think

618
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: that it is just because I artists are iconoclasts. I'll

619
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: tell you why. I think it is because I think

620
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: Hitler was one of the greatest marketers of all time.

621
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: I think he was like a you know, beyond Steve

622
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: Jobs level marketer. I think that like Nazism, like the

623
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: idea that Nazism had a logo, It's an interesting idea.

624
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: I would have never thought of that. Well, it's like

625
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: it was visual, it was aesthetic. It wasn't just about

626
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: like the ideas, and in fact, the aesthetics of Nazism

627
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: and the visuals of Nazism, and this idea that you

628
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: could paint a picture of this collective of people, and

629
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: I think and at the time was actually very powerful tool.

630
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: Like it's propaganda is designed, Propaganda is fashion. Propaganda is

631
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 1: not the thing, not the core thing that you're actually promoting,

632
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: not the thing you want to do, but the idea

633
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: of the thing, the vision of the thing, the feel

634
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: of the thing. And like when you think about Nazism,

635
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: it is like and again I'm not it's not good,

636
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: but it's true. The true thing is that it was

637
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: as much a movement about a feeling as it was

638
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: about real things. And while the feeling was propagating, the

639
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: logo was propagating, the outfits were propagating. Underneath. It was

640
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: the most heinous ship you could imagine happening, and like

641
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: good propaganda and good fascism worked on a almost an

642
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: an artistic level, on a like visceral level, that that

643
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: hit people emotionally, not consciously, not like thoughtfully. And I

644
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: think that there is some thread from what Kanye. And

645
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: again I'm not defending any of this ship. I can

646
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: understand and an interest in, an obsession with, and a

647
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: desire to either inspect or replicate or understand something like

648
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: Nazism or Hitler or fascism generally. So could I have

649
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: predicted it, No, But we have predicted that a very controversial,

650
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: very experimental, button pushing pop artist might become fascinated with

651
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: or interested in the ideas of that those people that person, Yeah,

652
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I guess it's somewhat predictable because it's

653
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: happened before, not to that degree. But also Kanye s

654
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: is mentally ill, like I think we should also say that,

655
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: like I'm not, it's not an out for him, but

656
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: he definitely is like not well as a person. This

657
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 1: is why I love to listen to you talk, buddy.

658
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: I would have never thought about the logo. Actually, there's

659
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: a great book you should check out. It's called branding terrorism,

660
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: and it is a compilation of all of the stylistic

661
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 1: elements of various terrorist groups around the world and their

662
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: logos and their flags and their clothing and this kind

663
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: of exploration of the aesthetics of terrorism, which is a

664
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: real thing because when you like want to bring people together,

665
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: one of the easiest ways to do it is like

666
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 1: to say, we all wear the same jacket. That's why

667
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 1: motorcycle gangs wear leather, you know, That's why armies wear

668
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:36,959
Speaker 1: outfits like their their uniforms. Fascinating. Yeah, on that light note,

669
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: what this is it? You're giving me the you give

670
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: me the boot. Wow, it's an interesting turn of phrase

671
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: considering what we were just talking about. But you know,

672
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: but yeah, I have to I'm giving you the boot,

673
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 1: all right, am I welcome back? Well there's you know,

674
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: you're always welcome. There's no question. I can't say no

675
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: to you. Like I could call you in an hour. Well,

676
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 1: I mean I guess you could, but I'll be making love,

677
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 1: so it'll very unusual and strange for both of us.

678
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to call you in an hour,

679
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: all right, Okay? Oh, but did he hang up? He

680
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: hung up? Oh he hung up. Okay, interesting, Well I

681
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: guess that's our show because I actually had something to

682
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: talk about. But um, and now it's that's all gone,

683
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: that's all done, because you know, we went off on

684
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: that down that road, that adventure. But you know, I

685
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: guess maybe there was some something value there. I mean,

686
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know what is value? You have

687
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: to ask yourself what is the value of of a conversation?

688
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: You know what, who who is, who earns, who loses?

689
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: You know who's who's paying out and who's getting paid

690
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: in a conversation. I think it's a great question that

691
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: a sick person would ask if they thought of a

692
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: conversation as a kind of monetary exchange. I'm not asking

693
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: m