1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 4 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 5 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: I think it's a were purpose driven platform. Like we're 6 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that you happy 7 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It really is? 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: What's up? This is Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Christen. 9 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Atlantia, episode eighteen. Does that make us 10 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: vicial adults? You said we all grows up. We all 11 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: grows up, we grown camp. That doesn't include you, know. 12 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: So We've got a great show talking about audio with 13 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: Andy Bowers, who super meta, super Meta we like, By 14 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: the way, we need to bring back Mamas. We need 15 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: to bring back mamas. We do. Laura's referring to a 16 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: little bit of meta and a little bit of Mama. 17 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: If you haven't listened to that episode, you will laugh 18 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,639 Speaker 1: your ass off. And if you don't, something's wrong with you. 19 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: You're missing a chip. So anyhow, anyhow, we have Andy 20 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: Bowers on the show, chief content officer of Panoply, also 21 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: a good friend. I feel like I always say that, 22 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: but it's true. We have a lot of good friends 23 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: that come in here and talk to us. But someone 24 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: that we created g podcast Theater with how many years ago, 25 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: almost four and I was four years ago excuse like 26 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: industry veteran came up through NPR, was really just waiting 27 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: for the tech element of audio to take off, to 28 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: give everybody access to what he's been seeing all along 29 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: and super interesting to dive into past future present. Yeah, 30 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 1: and also brands can get involved in podcasting because we're 31 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: really not there yet. We have a lot of friends 32 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: in the industry who are like, how do I get 33 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: into this space? Not for their own show, meaning like 34 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: how do I get my brand into this space and 35 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: maybe for their own show? I don't know, And we 36 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: always tell them like, this is the opportunity to be 37 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: stand out and think about this in a totally different 38 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: way and get into audio before audio starts getting so saturated, 39 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: not just with advertising, but I think with experience. And 40 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: what we're going to see is that the space actually 41 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: starts getting pretty saturated in terms of um ex ovariants 42 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,279 Speaker 1: and content. And one of the things that I'm excited 43 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: about is people bringing audio I R L right in 44 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: real life. So how do people start taking what's the 45 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,679 Speaker 1: crossover the conversations with a microphone and bringing it into 46 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: physical location so people can hear conversations that you know 47 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: normally are reserved for the studio space, but start to 48 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: actually now add the component of uh, you know, dialogue 49 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: with those who listen with physical physical, physical space. Yeah, 50 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: big on that. And there are a lot of and 51 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who are There are 52 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people who are doing it. But I 53 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: think that the opportunity for brands to get involved and 54 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: like figure out where can they be additive to the 55 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: talent in a physical experience is actually pretty exciting. So 56 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: Andy Bauer's coming on in a few minutes with Laura 57 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: and I. But in the meantime, Laura and I have 58 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: some thoughts what are we talking about today? So today 59 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: I feel like Burton Ernie today. Um, there are a 60 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: couple of things that have been getting on my nerves lately. 61 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: One when is brand content going to go away? What's 62 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: interesting about that is some of the reaction we heard 63 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: from episode seventeen with Vices Ben Deets was to one 64 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: of the points he made, which I think may have 65 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: been one of the single most important points um was 66 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: when he talks about the inspiration for when they created 67 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: the network. They came up in a world where they 68 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: believed on the edges that ads were content and content 69 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: we're ats, and a lot of people reacted to that, 70 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: not in positive or negative. Just in thanks for making 71 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: me think about that differently. And I think to your 72 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: point we heard earlier in one of our earlier shows 73 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: with Keith Grossman from Bloomberg, it's like, it's only advertising 74 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: when it's bad advertising. So there's there's it's only that 75 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: time one. Yeah, there's something perkling. But I also think 76 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,839 Speaker 1: like we're hitting this place where everybody now is coming 77 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: out with some kind of not everybody. I think that 78 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: they were the early folks. Now we're kind of in 79 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: the middle. And then I think we're going to hit 80 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: like probably a big critical volume of brands coming out 81 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: with more kind of original content or co produced content, 82 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: which I'm all for, But I just wonder when do 83 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: we saturate right people's ears, eyes and hearts with branded 84 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: content and people just start really loving brands or an 85 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: experience that they're having with brands and it's no longer 86 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: branded content, and like is branded content, just content can 87 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: get just good content. And I think a lot of 88 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: this and I'm seeing and enjoying is brands starting to, 89 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: I guess, fragment their approach to the market. Where you've 90 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: got products and services and what your heart cell is 91 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: on one side the coin and on the other side 92 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: of the coin, it's about your purpose, drive emission. And 93 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: I think we've heard about that over We've heard about 94 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: that over seventeen episodes on this show. You know, put 95 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 1: your money where your brand promises. And I think what 96 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: HP is doing with keep reinventing. I think what we've 97 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: seen with Glossier do around body Hero love, Body Hero awesome. 98 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: I think what we've seeing, you know, Airbnb start to 99 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: you know, delve into around diversity and inclusion. You know, 100 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: brands are starting to recognize that to fall in love 101 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,799 Speaker 1: with a brand, it doesn't necessarily need to be tethered 102 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 1: to that product or service that it is that you're selling. 103 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: It's what are those values, what are those you know, 104 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: consciousable things that you can put forward into the market. 105 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: But now it's not good enough to just say it. 106 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: I think there's this level of accountability where we actually 107 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: have to invest in you have to invest in. It 108 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: has to be real. Is this the same conversation we've 109 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: had over the seventeen episodes? No, and yes, But for 110 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: some reason it's been getting on my nerves a lot 111 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: as people I've been talking to or talking about brand 112 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: of content, brand and content, brand of content and that 113 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: they're going out there and they're creating it, and I'm 114 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: all for it, But to your point, when does it 115 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: turn into something that's produced brands? That's right, something that's 116 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: produced um and that sits outside of the brand and 117 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: kind of it's peripheral or it's kind of core to 118 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: the brand. One of the things that's always blown my 119 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: mind is like, don't some of these brands have more 120 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: credibility and pertise and some of these categories than content 121 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: creators do. And with that regard, don't they have more 122 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: of a right than Hollywood UM to talk about sustainability? 123 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: For example? Don't they have a right to talk about 124 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: the future relative to climate change or diversity or for 125 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: the housing market? Goldman Sachs like, I mean, that's the thing, right, 126 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: Like I would actually listen to Goldman Sachs talking about 127 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: right a financial crisis. I would rather listen to Jamie 128 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: Diamond of JP Morgan Chase talk about you know what 129 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: his opinions are on bitcoin, whether I agree with them 130 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: or not. Right, So anyway, that's my rant. You have one, 131 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: And I think the thing that's going to be interesting 132 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: is uh and we're going to get into it with Bowers. 133 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: Is the idea of ad supported versus pay to lists 134 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: and or pay to read or pay to watch. And 135 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: I think, you know, assume you know it's interesting, you know, 136 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: to start thinking about, well, what does mass mean anymore? 137 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: And is it more valuable? And our people going to 138 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: be more willing to pay for content that has an 139 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: expertise in an authority as opposed to something that is 140 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: just meant to entertain. And I think that's more to 141 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: maybe generic too, does that you know when you go 142 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: for that math we say it in the beginning of 143 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: the show. You know, when you're programming for everyone, you're 144 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: programming for no one. It's not a new idea. And 145 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: so do we move from mass and efficiency to context 146 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: and effectiveness? And I think that at the end of 147 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: the day is the world I want to live in 148 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: as a marketer. So me too, preach. We'll be back 149 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: with Andy Bowers after the break. So we're back in 150 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: the studio with a good friend, Andy Bowers, chief content 151 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: officer of panoply Hi Andy and also known to Alex 152 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: and I as our podfather father us. I have to 153 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: say I'm not officially allowed to accept that title. Uh, 154 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,239 Speaker 1: someone else has claimed to it, but you can be ours. 155 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: You've been actually telling us that for like three years 156 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: because the first time we met you, when we went 157 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: and talked to you about the message that we did 158 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: right to the podcast theater, We're like, oh my god, 159 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: we're meeting with the pod father. Laura and I were 160 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: like so excited, and then we like just came out 161 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: in the meeting. We're like, you're the pod father and 162 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: you're like, you can't say that, but we were like, 163 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: we're gonna say it anyway. I will not stop you. 164 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: So can we tell people about the origin of how 165 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: the three of us met because it's one of my 166 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: most favorite partnership development process in my career. Yeah, me too. Um, 167 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: we had this idea like, why shouldn't we be telling 168 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: our brand story in an audio space in a fictional format. 169 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: I was kind of obsessed with what was happening with 170 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: Serial Less. I mean, the story was amazing, right, the 171 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: reporting and the journalism and the narrative amazing, all of 172 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: that amazing, Yes, hands down, we all know that. But 173 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: what I was fascinated with was what was happening in 174 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: human behavior, consumer behavior, people listening to kind of this 175 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: new narrative on demand audio. And I called Laura and 176 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: I said, holy shit, this is big and we shouldn't 177 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: be doing video. We should be explaining our story and 178 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: bringing people along via an entertainment platform, and I want 179 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: to do it in audio. And she was like, hold on, 180 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: I gotta order my number three at Taco Bell. Literally 181 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: at midnight. At mid night. I was coming home on 182 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: the train and Laura was at Taco Bell and she 183 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: was like, this is right, and we know and we 184 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: know who to take this to. And then we met you. 185 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: We were sitting at Lapan lacot Did in right Pancoated 186 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: in in Midtown and we walked in. It was this 187 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: long table, it was noisy, and it was breakfast, and 188 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: I was sitting next to you and Laura was like 189 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: on the other side with Turk and we started talking 190 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: about this g podcast theater and the message and what 191 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: this could look like and how we wanted a partner 192 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: to come along side us and not do just branded 193 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: content right, but to really truly co produce this production 194 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: like a true original production. This is a twenty. It 195 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: was either yes, it was the beginning tail end. And 196 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: you looked at me and in your very Andy Bower's way, 197 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: like we were just saying out before we were on Mike, 198 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: like the coolest hipster and pr guy in the room like, 199 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: who are you talking about? Yeah, you like the coolest hipster. 200 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: We'll say it again, Okay, we're not talking about you 201 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: can stop raising your hand, um, And you looked at 202 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: me totally calm, and you were like yes, and it 203 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: was you. You were just like absolute yes. And then 204 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: you told me the story about your dad. Yes. Well, 205 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: you had said that you wanted to recreate G. E. Theater, 206 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: the TV show from the fifties with Ronald Reagan and 207 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: turn it into ge Podcast Theater, And I think I 208 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: just blurted out, oh, that's so cool because my dad 209 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: used to write for G. E. Theater. He was a 210 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: screenwriter and TV writer. And uh, I think you liked that. 211 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: It was like we were like, I liked it, but 212 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: it was also like you gave you weren't that calm, 213 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: like I have to say like this, we did get 214 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: maybe a little beat of sweat on your head. You 215 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: were like, yes, yes, and oh, by the way, I 216 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: have a personal connection to this, and I just knew 217 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: it was right. We just knew we were just like 218 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: people done. From my point of view, I go to 219 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: a lot of pitch meetings all the time, and you know, 220 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: the majority of them, sometimes the vast majority of them 221 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: do not amount to anything, and I come away underwhelmed 222 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: by what people have pitched. And Matt said, you know, 223 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: these are my friends from ge. They have this amazing 224 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: idea for something. I think it has to do with drama, 225 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: but it's branded. And I'm like, oh god, what is 226 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: this going to be? And you laid it out for me, 227 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,719 Speaker 1: and I kept in my mind thinking, Okay, where's the 228 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: big problem with this because this can't be what I'm thinking, 229 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: which is this actually sounds really good. It's not only 230 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: a good idea to do a branded scripted series, but 231 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: their actual idea is a good idea. I would listen 232 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: to this show. You know, you laid out the idea 233 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: that there's this message that's been around for since World 234 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: War Two that was received and people have been trying 235 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: to decode it. I think that was kind of the 236 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: German the idea you had, um that was like the 237 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: beginning treatment. Yeah, but it was all there in the 238 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: beginning treatment that the germ of I mean, that's exactly 239 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: what we produced. And so I kept trying to think 240 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: of ways to disqualify and I couldn't, And so I 241 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: actually grew excited in a way that I rarely have. 242 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: I think we got you. We got you excited a 243 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: lot during the process. I mean absolutely, It's only been 244 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: four years since the impetus of this partnership, and I 245 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: think it's interesting and obviously we want to shift the 246 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: conversation we're here approaching podcasting has exploded would probably be 247 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: it underwhelming way of talking about what's happened in the space. 248 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: Can you believe where it's come from having been in 249 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: this space since the days of MPR, or have you 250 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: just been waiting on and saying what's taking some that 251 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: kind of that one. Yes, I started podcasting, and I 252 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: think it was July of two thousand five. I had 253 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: been actually before that waiting for what the digital audio 254 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: spoken word medium would be. It was easy to make 255 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: audio on the internet, but it was not easy to 256 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: distribute it. And when that distribution method came along, I said, ah, 257 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: this is what I've been waiting for. So I just 258 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: I mean, even though it was incredibly cumbersome in those days. 259 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: I mean like that was before the smartphone, So you 260 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: had to download a podcast to your desktop computer and 261 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: then sink it to your iPod, And it was you know, 262 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: for me to think that normal people would go through 263 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: this incredible process to get what you can get from 264 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: the radio was not realistic. But I saw then just 265 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: the power of on demand audio. How when you set 266 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: your own schedule and you listen to what makes you 267 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 1: happy or interested or entertained on your schedule rather than 268 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: the radio schedule. It was incredibly powerful and addictive, and 269 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: so I knew that this was going to be the 270 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: future of the medium. I thought it would happen a 271 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: lot quicker, especially when the smartphone came along. When the 272 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: iPhone came in two thousands seven, I thought, oh, finally 273 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: we're here. And I kept waiting and waiting. In my 274 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: old colleagues at NPR, We're like, what are you doing podcasting? 275 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: What is this weird thing? That kind of thought I 276 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: was crazy, But then they got into it. Well, yes, 277 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: now the pool is very full. Yeah, the pool is 278 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: very full. So I mean my question is have we 279 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: hit mass with podcasting? You know, from an audience perspective, 280 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: I mean, how many podcasts? So you were on Charlie Rose. 281 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: Let me take a detour. Actually, you were on Charlie 282 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: Rose last week. I think it came out last week. 283 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah, and you were talking about, you know, 284 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: kind of is this this great awakening you with a 285 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: bunch of other guests, Um, great awakening of the you know, 286 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: re rethinking of the golden age of audio, and Um, 287 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: my question is have we really hit mass in audience 288 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: or have we hit mass in volume of content? Right? Well, 289 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: in terms of volume of content four thousand podcasts and iTunes, 290 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: I think that's critical mass, chaotic mass. Yeah. I hope 291 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: that actually clears out a little bit because it's just 292 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: way too confusing to find what you want. In terms 293 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: of audience, I think there's a lot more awareness now 294 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: of podcasting. I think the audience has a long way 295 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: to grow. We're still I don't know, quarter to a 296 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: third of Americans who regularly listen. I think most spoken 297 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: word audio will be listened to on demand in the future. 298 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: So I think we have a long way to go. 299 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: But now it's not a joke. I mean in the 300 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: old days, I would go to a dinner party and 301 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: say what I did, and people be like, podcasting isn't 302 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: that dead? No, No, it's going really well, but they 303 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: you know, it had totally lost its cachet. Well, now 304 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: that's not true. Yeah, now that's not true at all. 305 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: When you talk about you know, we're only a third 306 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: or two thirds of the way there, you know, with 307 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: technology and Alexa and I have talked quite a bit 308 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: about the disappearing interface and the idea that audio will 309 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: be that pervasive through line through everything we do, whether 310 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: that's you know, via your technology in your hand, whether 311 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: that's smart home audio in your home, whether that's in 312 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: your car. So those sort of some kind of ambient assistant, right, 313 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: So those are the things that get us excited and saying, like, 314 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: to your point, like, we haven't even approached the tipping 315 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: point in terms of where there is this critical, massive 316 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: audience that understands the power of this medium and storytelling. 317 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: We talk a lot about you know, brands understanding that 318 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: you know, podcasting is only one part of the audio strategy. So, 319 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: as somebody who's the chief content officer of what I 320 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: would deem an audio network, what are some of the 321 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: things that you see as being utility and audio that 322 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: brands can start thinking about exploring. Well, one thing is, 323 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: we just launched a children's audio service called Penna, which 324 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: is a subscription service, and this is, you know, the 325 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 1: opposite of ad supported. We decided very affirmatively that we 326 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 1: did not want to have advertising for children in this network, 327 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: so we made it a paid subscription service with a 328 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: free podcasting component. But people have been saying for a 329 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: long time, when are we going to get to the 330 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: point when people will pay for audio? And it's hard 331 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: with podcasts being out there free for a dozen years now, Um, 332 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: people are not used to it. The advertising model works 333 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: really well. It's far less intrusive than radio. It's more 334 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: interesting the ad so it works on that level. But um, 335 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: for kids audio, we at least really don't want to 336 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: do that advertising. So we're now going to have this 337 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: grand experiment where we're putting a lot of great programming, 338 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: archival and original programming in this app Penna, and people 339 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: are already in just a few weeks they're signing on 340 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: and we're getting a great feedback for it is seven 341 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,360 Speaker 1: month or seventy nine dollars for a year, and so 342 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: if it's sponsorship support, because this is the thing that 343 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: a lot of brands are starting to face now right 344 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: where there's people being will or people are willing to 345 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:12,239 Speaker 1: pay for app services and content services, etcetera. Because the 346 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: ad model has become so intrusive or not contextually relevant, 347 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: it becomes sort of, you know, attractive, It's attractive to 348 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: the experience. So how can will brands have an opportunity 349 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: at all to play within the Pinnas base? Do you 350 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: see them being able to create original content at any 351 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: time in the future. Is this something that you're preserving 352 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: strictly for programming At the moment, we're keeping it just 353 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: a programming. We'll we'll have to think about whether that 354 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: fits into the strategy going forward, but right now we're 355 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: trying to establish it with our own original programming and 356 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: with audio books and other things that are you know, 357 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: don't have any brands mentioned. How How do you okay, 358 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: so I knew that was Are you going to download 359 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: it for Phoebe? I am actually um for my too, 360 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: and she's a little young for us where we started four, 361 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: she's advanced. I have no doubt anyway. So she screams 362 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 1: at Amazon, we changed it. It's not Alexa, it's Amazon. 363 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: It's not Axa Amazon. She said, yeah, because it's ridiculous 364 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: when we're on the phone. Um. But so I want 365 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: to challenge that, because how do we start separating programming 366 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: from quote branded content, especially around advertisers, uh and brands 367 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: like a Lego. Do you see Lego movie as just 368 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: one giant branded content piece. I see it very much 369 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: as like what we did with the message, which the 370 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: point was to make a good movie, and they did. 371 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: The Lego Movie was fantastic. Yeah. Um, I think not 372 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: everything achieves that level. But if that's the aspiration and 373 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: you achieve it, then I think it's great that. I mean, 374 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: could brands come to you and say we want to 375 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: do something like that, and you guys would be open 376 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: to creating it, like underwriting content that no, actually creating 377 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: original content. So like if a Lego came to Panoply 378 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: and said, listen, got it it pin a no advertising. 379 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: We love that, but we've got this crazy, you know 380 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: idea and we're doing you know, aided um walk throughs 381 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: of new wired legos, you know, for kids, and we 382 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: want it. We're launching it on Amazon Echo. You know, 383 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: could you conceivably cross the line, we'd be happy to 384 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: talk about it. But the the ultimate arbit arbiters of 385 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: what will be appropriate for the service will be the 386 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: people who are paying money for it, That's right. Yeah. 387 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: So one thing that Alex and I are on this 388 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: bit of a crusade around is the idea of the 389 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: live read and how people if if we're going away 390 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: back from subscription into the add model more than just 391 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: the live read, right, it's just advertising and advertising, And 392 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 1: I think one of the things that we have a 393 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: little bit have been a little bit frustrated with has 394 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: been the idea that brands are kind of creating these 395 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: boilerplate briefs and they're handing them off to us without 396 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: any sort of contextual correctness around the stuff that we're 397 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: talking about. Is this something that you see becoming an 398 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: issue and a reason why, just like Spotify, just like Hulu, 399 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: people may want to deviate away from a ad supported 400 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: model to a pay to liston model because we haven't 401 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: protected the space in which people are like, I don't 402 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 1: want to listen to five ads before I get into 403 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: the content. It's just and they're and they'ren't even relevant. Yeah, well, 404 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: I do think that those sorts of ads that are 405 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: just read off a piece of copy are not as engaging. 406 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: They don't work as well as the improvised direct response 407 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: ads that people in podcasting do so well. So I 408 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: do think that will start to have fatigue set in 409 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: for listeners, and there may be more impetus for people 410 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: to subscribe to add free versions if they're available of podcasting. 411 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: But there isn't a really good solution now for how 412 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 1: to get podcasts without ads. I mean, there is no 413 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: one universal solution. There are individual one. Slate of course 414 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: has Slate plus where you can get the podcast without ads, 415 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: and bonus content on um Mark Marin has something, but 416 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: each of these is for an individual network or even 417 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: an individual podcast, and I think it's going to be 418 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: hard to scale that because smaller podcasts, less popular podcasts 419 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:13,479 Speaker 1: are not really going to be able to jump on 420 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: that bandwagon. Atreon is one other possibility for that, but 421 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: it's hard. And I do think you're right that for 422 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: the live read model, we have to protect what makes 423 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: that work, which is clever, improvised content that is contextually 424 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: relevant to the podcast itself. Yeah, I agree. So one 425 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: thing I want to talk about, So you just signed 426 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: with w m E. That's right, not me personally. Well, 427 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: write on that for work on that for you exactly. Um, well, 428 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: my dad was with William Morris before. It was really 429 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: every time this happens, you never know, like the deep 430 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: fan connection. This is happening kind of all over the place, right, 431 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: So you're not the only network that's announced that they're 432 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: working with some kind of you know, Hollywood, um negotiation 433 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 1: creative shop. Right. Um, what do you think the future 434 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: of audio to site and motion is going to be? 435 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: Is it going to get stronger? Are you gonna Is 436 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: this like a road that goes two ways where maybe 437 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: Piano Pole is going to be pulling ip from Hollywood 438 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: or feeding well and both and that's feeding Hollywood. I 439 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: p is happening now, right, But you know what does 440 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: it look like on the flip side? Is that something 441 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: you're also looking at? Yes? Absolutely, we are actually actively 442 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: in talks for doing something along those lines. You know 443 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: one reason that we're with w m is we've been 444 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: working with w m E for years now, they've brought 445 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: us projects, they brought us potential podcast hosts. We have 446 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: a really good working relationship with them already and with 447 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: other agencies, so there it's been going both ways. But 448 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: the advent of i P on the podcast side moving 449 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 1: to Hollywood is relatively new. There's movies being made, Amazon 450 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: series sorts of stuff, and honestly, as I talked to 451 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: the agencies, they say that pod cast i P is 452 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: the hot thing in Hollywood. It is. They're just hungry 453 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,239 Speaker 1: for anything that has proven itself in another medium, and 454 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: you have this explosion of creativity going on in podcasting, 455 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: so it's the natural place to look. Now. I grew 456 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: up in l A and Hollywood. My parents were both 457 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: in the industry, so I know how cyclical this is 458 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: and how quickly something can go from the hottest thing 459 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: to a total afterthoughts. So I'm not holding my breath 460 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: and thinking that podcasts are always going to be a 461 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: feeder for Hollywood. But I think, you know, as long 462 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: as the creativity persists, it's going to be an excellent 463 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: place because it's a lot cheaper to try something in 464 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: audio than it is in video. Do you see a 465 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: day where one of these podcast networks or many of 466 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: these pod NetCast networks come together and create a super 467 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: media company. Um, you know what happens to Apple and 468 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: what happens because they own the pipes. At the end 469 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: of the day, they own the pipes, and that is 470 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: the thing that kills is killing agencies. It's the thing 471 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: that's killing a lot of cre native um when people 472 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: don't own the pipes and don't understand the pipes. And 473 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: so could that happen to podcasts? It could? I mean, 474 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: up until now, the technological barrier to podcasting has been 475 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: surprisingly high, and the fact that the iPhone has a 476 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 1: podcasting app native installed when you get the phone has 477 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: been the easiest way to tell people to get podcasts. 478 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: It gets a lot of people over the hump. And 479 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 1: all these other apps that have come along, especially for 480 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: the iPhone and for Android, that involve having to go 481 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: find it, install it, set it up. It's just an 482 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: extra step that few people are willing to make if 483 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: there's an easy solution right there on your phone. So 484 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: it would be very hard to do that, especially with 485 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: content that is widely available everywhere. I do think it's conceivable. 486 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, how much would it take to 487 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: buy up all the podcasting companies in the world. It 488 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: would take you know, less than your average your acquisition, 489 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: not a lot of money, so it's possible. But still 490 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: getting people over that hump when there is a good 491 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: ad supported solution right now, I think would be difficult. Plus, 492 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: you're never going to get everyone to pay. You're always 493 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: going to have to have some sort of freemium model, 494 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: and I think that you're probably always going to have 495 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: the majority of people listening to the ad supported version, 496 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: and I think that's great. I think having a freemium 497 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 1: model like that is probably the best of all worlds 498 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: because it gives access to people who can't afford it 499 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: or don't want to pay for it for some reason, 500 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: but it gives people who are willing or can do 501 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: it a better experience. It's going to be like the 502 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: difference between what Broadcast and Netflix is today to what 503 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: I imagine you know, Apple will be to this TBD 504 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: thing I think we're talking about. Yeah, I'm excited by it. 505 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: I think it's really because it it does come down 506 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: to the content. I p if Panically or Gimlet or 507 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: w my C is producing the best content out there, 508 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden decides to create that 509 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: pipe and invest in the technology you to do it. 510 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: Raising my hand, why wouldn't I want to go over 511 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: and listen to those shows in the same way that 512 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: I could only get House of Cards on Netflix? Right? 513 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it's what's happening with Disney right now and Netflix. 514 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the whole thing. And that's why I ask. 515 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,479 Speaker 1: And We've always been good at dreaming about things, um 516 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: and then making them, making them so um, something that 517 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: I'm like obsessed with. I've been asking everyone that I 518 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: know do you listen to podcasts? And the people that 519 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: say no, they follow it with but I know I 520 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: should be always right. So podcasting has this fomo craze, right, 521 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 1: fear of missing out all over itself. What can brands do? 522 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: They don't have to be the g E and come 523 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: right and create original content with you, um and really 524 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: share the I P with you. Right, But what can 525 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: brands do today to start getting their toe really dipped 526 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 1: into the space in a meaningful way. Well, the good 527 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,479 Speaker 1: news is, unlike branded content in print, where you have 528 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: to it's hard to get people to go to your page. 529 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: You know, all the strategy is usually going to an 530 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 1: editorial organization and doing sponsored content on that page, so 531 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: it's separate. There's always that word they're sponsored, right, and 532 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: it is different. It's like separating it from the other content. 533 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: The great thing about podcasting for brands, for individuals, for 534 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: anyone who wants to get into it is you're all 535 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: there in the same place. You are equal. And if 536 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: you make good content that is relevant to people and 537 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like an AD, because no one's going to 538 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: go seek out an AD. But there have been many 539 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: examples beyond the message of really good branded content that 540 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: is useful to people and they there is not that 541 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: differentiation because anyone can play in that space. And you know, 542 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: we got to number one on the iTunes charts. It 543 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: wasn't number one on the branded charts. It was just 544 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: the number one podcast. What are other examples, Andy, If 545 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: you could just rattle off a couple of brands you 546 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: see doing it really well right now? Um, I think 547 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: Gimlet is doing really great branded content with their partners, 548 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: and I think they know instinctively that it has to 549 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: be an interesting show and has to have good stories 550 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: on it in order to be interesting. But I suspect 551 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: that they're doing quite well with it because I see 552 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: them on the charts and their stuff is getting a 553 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: lot of attention and it's good. Um, there are a 554 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: number of other places doing it, we hear it. Slate 555 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: and panopally have been doing it probably longer than anyone else. 556 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: We had one of the first creative studios and one 557 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: of the first brand it is actually the first. What's 558 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: in your cue right now? What are you listening to? 559 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: Hang on? I'll I have to be honest. I spend 560 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: most of my time listening to potential and in process 561 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: shows pilots. Yeah, I have so little time to just 562 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: sit back and listen to podcasts for entertainment. Now, this 563 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: is the curse podcasting. Is that I you know, doing 564 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: that listening to a podcast for pleasure. It feels like 565 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,239 Speaker 1: I'm cheating, like I'm going to get in trouble for 566 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: it because there's no work element to it. That's so funny. 567 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: One more last question, what does global audio look like? 568 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: It's so I mean, audio is such a great place 569 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: right to really get to global audience. Is that something 570 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,719 Speaker 1: that you guys. I'm winking at you because I know 571 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: that's something you guys have been plotting towards. But what 572 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: does that really look like like other language podcasting and 573 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: audio coming from originating maybe in the US. Well, um, 574 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: Slate just launched l gab Fest. Did you know about that? 575 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I read about it? Which is the Slate 576 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: and panoplies first Spanish language. Any other language podcast I'm 577 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: trying to plot speak Spanish or is it translating plots? 578 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: Is not on it. It has a completely different cast 579 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: of folks. But you know, I think Spanish language is 580 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: probably the next big market because you know, it's just 581 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: such a global reach. Um. I think Chinese would be interesting, 582 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: but there's some question as to whether the Chinese government 583 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: will allow podcasting of the kind of crazy um no 584 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: holds barred type. But you know, English is such a 585 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: powerful language worldwide that I think there's we we have 586 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: a lot of our audiences overseas. We hear from people 587 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: all over the world who listened to our podcasts. The 588 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: message charted in countries. So yeah, before we let you 589 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: go kill by d I y really quick, what would 590 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: you kill? What would you buy? What would you do yourself? 591 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: I would kill the term podcasting if it was possible 592 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: to kill. At this point, I think it has gotten 593 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: enough brand awareness that, um, it's too late. But I 594 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: think to a person, podcasters, at least those of us 595 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: who have been around for a long time, think it 596 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: is a terrible term. It refers to a device that 597 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: doesn't even exist anymore. It was a joke. It was 598 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: a joke in a newspaper column. Really yeah, at the 599 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: end of two thousand four, I think this guy was 600 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: just throwing out funny names that this new medium could 601 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: be called, and it's throughout podcasting, and somehow it stuck. 602 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: Everyone at MPR went yes, no, they weren't that interested 603 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: in if those of us in it said, oh, that's 604 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: kind of funny, and then it just kind of stuck around. 605 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: People have been trying to rename it for years. I 606 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: think that ship is sal for now. For now. But 607 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: I also when people talk to me about podcasting, and 608 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: then Lauren and I talked about this in Laura said earlier, 609 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: it's not about podcasting. To us is this is about audio? 610 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: This is about audio. It's audio on demand, video on demand. Yeah. 611 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: I would buy the Echo and the smart speakers because 612 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: I think that's you tend for like a hundred dollars. 613 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: I mean I did buy one of the speakers. Yeah, um, 614 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: I think that is going to be the future of 615 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: this medium. Agreed. I think it's so important because it's 616 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: all about voice. Could you imagine if it becomes Alexa casting? 617 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: I will literally lose my mind. No, you lose your mind. 618 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonna lose my mind. I think Apple and Google 619 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: are not going to allow They're not going to allow 620 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: that to happen. But it's a race. And what would 621 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: you do yourself? I would do I would carve out 622 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: time to make more children's podcast myself. Oh nice, I 623 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: love making kids podcasts. You could be like the Mr 624 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: Rogers podcast. But he actually I forgot this. You didn't 625 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: you do something with your dot? Didn't you write? You write? 626 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: You wrote something for your daughter. You started doing a 627 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: podcast together in two thousand five when she was five, 628 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: and uh it. We went on for four or five 629 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: years and it's now in Pinna. It's called Molly and 630 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: the Sugar Monster, and which, by the way, so in 631 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: your Twitter bio in which I didn't know, I was like, 632 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:45,959 Speaker 1: what does he talking about the sugar Monster? But now 633 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: I know. Yes, he's a guy who comes to children's 634 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: dinner tables and tells them don't eat anything healthy. Amazing. 635 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: I'm not note. Thank you Andy Bowers Johnton, Officer of ANIPLA. 636 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: Where can people find you Twitter at Andy Bowers? Awesome, Andy, 637 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. It's been a blast. Andy Bowers, 638 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: thanks for joining us on the episode, and we're always 639 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 1: supporting our show and us of these ladies going into 640 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: l gap Fest. Maybe there's a la wait I don't 641 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: speak Spanish. I was a German student, Lindia German. The 642 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: next version, um, yes, So we want to thank Cameron 643 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: Drew's are almost eighteen year old producer. Thank you kill 644 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: that joke eventually, Kim, I can't. I gotta get maybe 645 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: when yeah, maybe when we one we'll take you out. 646 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,760 Speaker 1: So thank you to our friends and family, a panoply, 647 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 1: and a big thanks to our listeners. People who are 648 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: talking to us on added Landia Podcast, emailing us at 649 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 1: at Landia podcast at gmail dot com. Please review us 650 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts wherever you're listening to pods. And one 651 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: of the re us I think we'll come away with 652 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: this episode is tell five friends we'll take you out 653 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: for pizza as many as we can fit around the pie. 654 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: So thanks for listening everybody. We'll be back in two 655 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: weeks m H Full disclosure. Our opinions are our own.