Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky listener. Discretion is advised. St. Louis,
Speaker 1: February fourteenth, nineteen o four. This is taken from the
Speaker 1: Southern Standard. William J. Limp, president of the lymp Brewing Company,
Speaker 1: shot himself through the temple with the revolver at his
Speaker 1: home thirty three twenty two Lamp Avenue, at nine thirty
Speaker 1: o'clock Saturday forenoon, while in a fit of grief over
Speaker 1: the recent death of his son Edward. He died an
Speaker 1: hour later, without having been conscious after the shot was fired.
Speaker 1: The first known of the act at the Frewery office
Speaker 1: was at a little after nine thirty, when a messenger
Speaker 1: ran into the office and told the son of the
Speaker 1: brewer to hurry to the residence a few doors away.
Speaker 1: It was an hour later when word was received at
Speaker 1: the office that Mr Limp had shot himself and was dead.
Speaker 1: From what can be learned, Mr Lamp arose at his
Speaker 1: wonted hours Saturday morning a a light breakfasts, and upon
Speaker 1: complaining that he did not feel well, returned to his room.
Speaker 1: He must have spent some time there writing and making
Speaker 1: known his last earthly wishes. An hour later, a shot
Speaker 1: was heard. Members of the household ran to the room,
Speaker 1: only to find the millionaire brewer in the last throes
Speaker 1: of death. He was partially disrobed and lay upon the
Speaker 1: bed with his revolver smoking on the bloodstained covers. The
Speaker 1: man's muscles twitched, he breathed heavily. A gaping wound in
Speaker 1: his temple told the story. Messengers were dispatched for physicians,
Speaker 1: and Dr Harmish was the first to arrive. He is
Speaker 1: beyond all medical or surgical a, the doctor stated. At
Speaker 1: ten o'clock he passed away. I'm Amy Bruney, and this
Speaker 1: is haunted road. If you were to visit thirty three
Speaker 1: twenty two demental place today, you'd see a historic inn
Speaker 1: built more than one hundred fifty years ago, filled with
Speaker 1: happy diners and overnight guests. Well, that might not be
Speaker 1: all you see. Lemp Mansion is one of St. Louis's
Speaker 1: grandest homes, which house generations of one of the city's
Speaker 1: most prominent and troubled families. Among tragic accounts of untreated
Speaker 1: mental illness and untimely deaths are stories of underground passages,
Speaker 1: false claims to the family fortune, rumors of a generational curse,
Speaker 1: and even a child hidden away in the attic. The
Speaker 1: legends linger in the Limp Mansion restaurant and end Today
Speaker 1: after the mystery, dinners and parties are over, Guests report
Speaker 1: strange happenings, Phantom footsteps and knocking sounds ring through the hallways,
Speaker 1: Shadows peak around corners, small objects move on their own,
Speaker 1: and a piano mysteriously plays by itself when no one
Speaker 1: is nearby. But in the beginning, there was just one
Speaker 1: family and one very big American dream on the banks
Speaker 1: of the Mississippi River. St. Louis, Missouri, is a city
Speaker 1: of about three hundred thousand people. It grew rapidly in
Speaker 1: the early nineteenth century with the advent of the steamboat,
Speaker 1: and quickly became a major destination for Irish and German immigrants.
Speaker 1: One of those immigrants, Johann Adam Lamp, who emigrated from
Speaker 1: Central Germany, arrived in the United States about eighteen thirty six.
Speaker 1: On his arrival in St. Louis in eighteen thirty eight,
Speaker 1: Lamp opened a grocery store where he sold his homemade beer.
Speaker 1: People loved Adam Lamp's German style lagger beer, which was
Speaker 1: much lighter than the strong English ales widely available in
Speaker 1: America at the time. In a short two years, Lamp
Speaker 1: started a beer company using German recipes. In eighteen forty,
Speaker 1: the first location of the Lamp Brewery was located where
Speaker 1: the south leg of the city's iconic Gateway arch now stands. St.
Speaker 1: Louis Magazine called Adam Lamp one of the most influential
Speaker 1: figures in St. Louis history for his runaway success as
Speaker 1: a brewer. Lamp Brewery became so popular so quickly that
Speaker 1: in just five years it moved to a larger facility
Speaker 1: with limestone caves underneath where beer could be kept cold
Speaker 1: in an above ground beer garden called Lemp's Cave, where
Speaker 1: people would sit and sit. The elder Limp died in
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty two, and his son William took over the company.
Speaker 1: That same year. William Lymp and his wife Julia had
Speaker 1: a son who died at birth. In the following years,
Speaker 1: they would have eight more children, Anna, William Jr. Lewis, Charles, Frederick, Hilda,
Speaker 1: Edwin and Elsa. What's known today as the Limp Mansion
Speaker 1: was actually built by William Senior's father in law Jacob
Speaker 1: Fickert in eighteen sixty eight. It's just down the street
Speaker 1: from the brewery, as Cathy Wiser Alexander wrote for Legends
Speaker 1: of America. By the eighteen seventies, the Limp family symbolized
Speaker 1: both wealth and power, as the Lemp Brewery controlled the St.
Speaker 1: Louis beer market, a position it maintained until Prohibition. The
Speaker 1: family bought the Limp Mansion in eighteen seventy six and
Speaker 1: began renovating and expanding the thirty re room house. The
Speaker 1: Victorian home was built in the Italianate style and stands
Speaker 1: three stories tall, with a basement and an attic. The
Speaker 1: front of the home is white with black trim and
Speaker 1: looks relatively plain from the outside, but inside there are
Speaker 1: endless architectural curiosities, like an atrium where the lamps kept
Speaker 1: exotic plants and birds, and a hand painted ceiling in
Speaker 1: the parlor, which has green and yellow floral designs and
Speaker 1: depictions of clouds. On the third floor, in addition to
Speaker 1: the servants quarters, there are cedar walk in closets, a skylight,
Speaker 1: and an observation deck. As the mansion's history describes, the
Speaker 1: main bathroom is dominated by a unique glass enclosed free
Speaker 1: standing shower that Lamp discovered in an Italian hotel and
Speaker 1: brought back to St. Louis for his personal use. Other
Speaker 1: unusual fixtures in the room are a barber chair and
Speaker 1: a sink with glass legs. At the rear of the
Speaker 1: house are three massive vaults that the Lamps built to
Speaker 1: store art. The Lamps also built a tunnel that connected
Speaker 1: the home's basement to the caves below the brewery, or
Speaker 1: or at least the tunnel probably existed. Chris Nafzinger of St.
Speaker 1: Louis Magazine has reviewed old records and believes that the
Speaker 1: tunnel link between the mansion and the brewery caves is
Speaker 1: a myth, but staff at the Lamp mansions say there
Speaker 1: absolutely was a tunnel, which many believe is concealed by
Speaker 1: a bricked over portion of wall in the basement of
Speaker 1: the home. It's said that members of the Lamp family
Speaker 1: would walk to work through the tunnel. Lent Brewery introduced
Speaker 1: artificial refrigeration in eighteen seventy eight, at which point parts
Speaker 1: of the cave were converted as entertainment spaces like a
Speaker 1: natural auditorium and a theater. As Kathy Wiser Alexander wrote.
Speaker 1: This underground oasis would later spawn a large concrete swimming
Speaker 1: pool with hot water piped in from the brewery boiling house,
Speaker 1: and a bowling alley. The caves are still used for
Speaker 1: entertainment purposes today. They're now home to the subterranean Lent
Speaker 1: Brewery Hunted House. By the eighteen nineties, Lent Brewery was
Speaker 1: selling their beer all across America, something a regional brewery
Speaker 1: had never achieved before. As Troy Taylor wrote in Haunted, Missouri,
Speaker 1: Lamp was the first brewery to establish coast to coast
Speaker 1: distribution of its beer, shipping it out in refrigerated railroad cars.
Speaker 1: After expanding across America, Lamp also spread to overseas markets,
Speaker 1: and by the late eighteen nineties the beer could be
Speaker 1: found in Canada, Mexico, Britain, Germany, Central and South America,
Speaker 1: the West Indies, the Hawaiian Islands, Australia, Japan, and beyond.
Speaker 1: In eighteen ninety seven, William's daughter, Hilda Mary gustav passed.
Speaker 1: You may recognize that last name. In eight William Jr.
Speaker 1: Known as Billy, married Lillian Hanlon, whom the St. Louis
Speaker 1: Post Dispatch described as a railroad supply. Harris known as
Speaker 1: the Lavender Lady because she favored that color for everything,
Speaker 1: even the harnesses on her horses. But the happy times
Speaker 1: didn't last. In nineteen o one, Williams twenty eight year
Speaker 1: old son, Frederick, who had been the superintendent of the brewery,
Speaker 1: died of heart failure. Three years later, on the morning
Speaker 1: of February thirteenth, nineteen o four, William Lamp died of
Speaker 1: a self inflicted gunshot wound to the head in his
Speaker 1: bedroom at Limp Mansion. He was sixty eight years old.
Speaker 1: It said that he was never the same after Frederick's death.
Speaker 1: He was also greatly affected by the death of his
Speaker 1: friend and fellow brewery king, Frederick past who died in
Speaker 1: January of that year. William's son had been named after Papst.
Speaker 1: The day after William's death, a front page article on
Speaker 1: the St. Louis Post Dispatch referred to him as one
Speaker 1: of the best known brewers in America. The Lamp Brewing
Speaker 1: plants were shut down on the day of his funeral,
Speaker 1: with longtime employees serving as pall bearers. Among the honorary
Speaker 1: pallbears was Adolphus Bush, the co founder of Annheuser Busch,
Speaker 1: His son took over the brewery, but he and Lillian
Speaker 1: were more interested in enjoying their vast fortune than in
Speaker 1: running the family business. They spent extravagantly staffing the house
Speaker 1: with servants and buying opulent art and clothing. William Jr.
Speaker 1: Also through decadent party in the limestone caves beneath the brewery,
Speaker 1: including hiring sex workers for his friends. According to persistent,
Speaker 1: although entirely unsubstantiated rumors, William Junior eventually followed a child,
Speaker 1: a boy born with Down syndrome or some type of
Speaker 1: physical deformity, either with one of those sex workers or
Speaker 1: with a servant at the mansion. The child was supposedly
Speaker 1: hidden in the attic where he lived out his days,
Speaker 1: though there is no documentation to prove this. William Junior
Speaker 1: and Lillian divorced in nineteen o nine in a scandal
Speaker 1: filled trial that made headlines. The court heard that William
Speaker 1: Junior had beaten Lillian, thrown her down the stairs, shot
Speaker 1: neighborhood cats for sport, had been seen with other women,
Speaker 1: and visited houses of bad repute, all of which he denied.
Speaker 1: Lillian also testified that she had to restrain William Junior
Speaker 1: from shooting a black butler after the former believed the
Speaker 1: latter was acting as were counted in the St. Louis
Speaker 1: Globe Democrat Insolent and Surly. William Junior claimed that he
Speaker 1: pulled the gun in self defense because Butler was near
Speaker 1: a table with knives on it. William Junior had hired
Speaker 1: a private detective to follow Lilian after reading a letter
Speaker 1: that she claimed she had left as a trap to
Speaker 1: see if he went through her mail, and was allegedly
Speaker 1: coerced into signing a document saying that the baptism and moral,
Speaker 1: religious and collegiate teaching, direction and instruction of all children
Speaker 1: born of our marriage shall be left absolutely and entirely
Speaker 1: at all times to the dictation, direction and control of
Speaker 1: William J. Lamp Jr. William Jr. Alleged that, against his wishes,
Speaker 1: Lillian was attempting to raise their eight year old son,
Speaker 1: William the Third, as a Catholic. Lilian claimed that she
Speaker 1: had been tricked, saying, according to the St. Louis Joseph
Speaker 1: Press News, that when she signed it, the paper was
Speaker 1: so folded as to conceal the contents, and that she
Speaker 1: supposed that she was signing another paper that she had
Speaker 1: been read to her. For his part, William Junior was
Speaker 1: embarrassed by his wife's eccentric clothing preferences. During the trial,
Speaker 1: he told the court that he did not like his
Speaker 1: wife's almost constant wearing of the color purple, saying I
Speaker 1: didn't want her to be conspict us by wearing the
Speaker 1: same thing all the time. In fact, one of the
Speaker 1: only times she was ever seen not wearing purple was
Speaker 1: on the final day of the hearing, when she arrived
Speaker 1: to court wearing all black. With a divorce finalized, William
Speaker 1: Junior remodeled the home in nineteen eleven, converting part of
Speaker 1: the space into brewery offices. According to Kathy Wiser Alexander,
Speaker 1: at this time, William allowed the company's equipment to deteriorate
Speaker 1: without keeping abreast of industry innovations. By World War One,
Speaker 1: the brewery was just barely limping along. In nineteen nineteen,
Speaker 1: William Junior shut down the company after the passage of
Speaker 1: the Nineteenth Amendment making prohibition the law of the land. However,
Speaker 1: he didn't tell his workers about the closure. They simply
Speaker 1: arrived to work one day to find the gates locked.
Speaker 1: More sadness followed and quickly. On the morning of March
Speaker 1: twentie nine, Elsa, the youngest of the Lemp siblings, died
Speaker 1: of a self inflicted gunshot wound to the heart. She
Speaker 1: was thirty seven and at the time was St. Louis's
Speaker 1: richest woman. Elsa had maladies including indigestion, nausea, and depression,
Speaker 1: but some speculate that her death was suspicious. She had
Speaker 1: recently remarried her former husband, Thomas Wright, who she divorced
Speaker 1: the previous year. Her new again husband allegedly waited almost
Speaker 1: half an hour to call for a doctor, and several
Speaker 1: of the servants changed their stories about the morning's events
Speaker 1: after the fact. In June nineteen twenty two, the Limp
Speaker 1: Brewery was sold piecemeal at auction for five hundred eighty
Speaker 1: eight thousand, five hundred dollars, which is nine point eight
Speaker 1: five million by today's standards, well below its original valuation
Speaker 1: of seven million dollars, which is a hundred twenty three
Speaker 1: point four million today. Six months later, despondent over the
Speaker 1: state of the family business, William Jr. Took his own
Speaker 1: life in his office at the Limp mansion on December
Speaker 1: twenty ninth, nineteen twenty two, he was fifty five years old.
Speaker 1: A contemporary newspaper report noted that Billy Lamp especially has
Speaker 1: lived in a retired manner since prohibition went into effect
Speaker 1: and the brewer we closed down its manufacture of beer
Speaker 1: in nineteen forty three. William Lamp, the third William Jr.
Speaker 1: And Lillian's only child, died of a cerebral hemorrhage at
Speaker 1: age forty two after collapsing on the sidewalk in nearby Clayton, Missouri.
Speaker 1: At some point in the nineteen forties, It's alleged that
Speaker 1: William Jr's illegitimate child died in his thirties. According to
Speaker 1: Legends of America, he was buried on the Lamp cemetery
Speaker 1: plot with only a small flat marker with the word Limp.
Speaker 1: On the morning of May tenth, ninety nine, another Lamp sibling, Charles,
Speaker 1: was found dead of suicide. He was seventy seven years
Speaker 1: old and was living alone in the Limp mansion. Charles
Speaker 1: shot himself with a thirty eight caliber revolver in the
Speaker 1: same room where his brother died. In his later years,
Speaker 1: Charles had become increasingly eccentric. After his suicide, It was
Speaker 1: noted in a contemporary report that he had suffered from
Speaker 1: nervousness in recent weeks. He was the only Limp to
Speaker 1: leave a note which read, in case I am found dead,
Speaker 1: blame it on no one but me. As Colin Dickey
Speaker 1: wrote in his book ghost Land, tradition holds that Charles
Speaker 1: shot his dog before himself, though this is nowhere mentioned
Speaker 1: in the police reports of the incident, It said that
Speaker 1: the body of his Doberman pincher Serva was found halfway
Speaker 1: up the basement stairs. The Lamp family saw an unusually
Speaker 1: high amount of suicides, but they were also happening in
Speaker 1: other German immigrant brewing families. On February thirteenth, nineteen thirty four,
Speaker 1: Anheuser Busch president August Busch committed suicide by revolver, thirty
Speaker 1: years to the day after William Senior suicide and Otto F.
Speaker 1: Stifle of the Old Stifle Union Brewery also ended his
Speaker 1: own life. Police eventually started calling the act of suicide
Speaker 1: the Dutch act, a corruption of the word Deutsche or German.
Speaker 1: After the last Lamp to live in the mansion died
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty, the home became a boarding house. It
Speaker 1: was also used to house children from a nearby pediatric hospital,
Speaker 1: Marian Hospital. In the early nineteen sixties, the house was
Speaker 1: slated for demolition to room for the Ozark Expressway. Public
Speaker 1: outcry and advocacy surrounding a nearby property, the Chatelaunde Demonial Mansion,
Speaker 1: ended up saving the Lamp Mansion when the highway was
Speaker 1: rerouted to preserve it. However, much of the Lamp Mansion's grounds,
Speaker 1: as well as the carriage house, were leveled. Edwin, the
Speaker 1: last remaining Lamp sibling, died in nineteen seventy at the
Speaker 1: age of ninety. As Kathy Wiser Alexander wrote, according to
Speaker 1: Edwin's last wishes, his butler burned all of his paintings
Speaker 1: that the Lamps had collected throughout his life, as well
Speaker 1: as priceless Limp family documents and artifacts. These irreplaceable pieces
Speaker 1: of history vanished in the smoke of a blazing bonfire.
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy five, the mansion was bought by Dick Pointer,
Speaker 1: who converted it into a restaurant. It still operates as
Speaker 1: an inn and restaurant today. In a man named Andrew
Speaker 1: Paulson appeared in St. Louis and claimed to be a
Speaker 1: Limp descendant. He was in position of a key to
Speaker 1: the family mausoleum in Bellefontaine Cemetery, as well as various
Speaker 1: other heirlooms. Paulson was eventually revealed to be an impostor
Speaker 1: looking to make money off the Lamp name. He wasn't
Speaker 1: the first to do so. In nineteen o one, a
Speaker 1: man claiming to be Billy Limp bought a large diamond
Speaker 1: brooch from a Saint Louis jewelry store, telling them to
Speaker 1: build the Limp Brewery. He pawned the brooch and was
Speaker 1: never seen again. Many are convinced that some sort of
Speaker 1: curse caused so many of the Limps to take their
Speaker 1: own lives, especially since all the suicides took place by
Speaker 1: firearm and in the morning hours. But as Colin Dickie
Speaker 1: points out in ghost Land, it's more likely that the
Speaker 1: curse was a family history of untreated mental illness. With
Speaker 1: all the dark history surrounding the family and the home,
Speaker 1: it's no surprise that the Limp Mansion is often called
Speaker 1: one of the most haunted homes in America. Betsy Burnett Blandra,
Speaker 1: the Limp Mansion's historian and paranormal investigator, believes that there
Speaker 1: are nine spirits in the house. In addition to the Limps,
Speaker 1: Burnett Belangra has also come into contact with the spirit
Speaker 1: of a servant who still cares for the spirit of
Speaker 1: a sixteen year old named Zeke and a child named Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: She's also identified a spirit she calls the Stinky Man,
Speaker 1: who told her to get out of the house. She
Speaker 1: believes that Charles Limp may have been affected by the
Speaker 1: presence of some of these ghosts. The building got its
Speaker 1: haunted reputation soon after its conversion into a rooming house,
Speaker 1: with tenants reporting phantom footsteps and knocking sounds. Allegedly, people
Speaker 1: wouldn't stay long because of the hauntings. During the nineteen
Speaker 1: seventies renovations to transform the mansion into a restaurant and
Speaker 1: in According to Legends of America, workers within the house
Speaker 1: often told stories of apparitions, strange sounds, vanishing tools, and
Speaker 1: a feeling of being watched. Frightened by the hauntings, many
Speaker 1: would leave the job site, never to return. One worker
Speaker 1: heard the sound of horses hoofs on cobblestones out the
Speaker 1: window on a portion of lawn later discovered to have
Speaker 1: covered the area that was the cobblestone driveway of the
Speaker 1: mansion while the ceiling frescoes were being restored. A worker
Speaker 1: named Claude breck Walt told the St. Louis Post Dispatch
Speaker 1: that he was on the job late one night when
Speaker 1: he had this sensation that someone was staring at me.
Speaker 1: I just knew that some one was staring at me
Speaker 1: through the glass beveled doors. There was no doubt. I
Speaker 1: got chills up and down my back. My hair stood
Speaker 1: on end. Until then, I never believed in ghosts. From
Speaker 1: then on, Brekwalt would only work during the daytime with
Speaker 1: others near by, and turned down working on additional rooms. Today,
Speaker 1: the staff in the restaurant, according to Culture Trip, have
Speaker 1: heard the piano playing itself and doors locking and unlocking themselves.
Speaker 1: They also report cold spots and apparitions throughout the building
Speaker 1: and the hallways. People say they've seen a young child,
Speaker 1: as well as the figure of an older man who
Speaker 1: is sometimes said to be Charles Limp in his hat,
Speaker 1: cape and shiny shoes. Some have also reported hearing gunshots
Speaker 1: in the hallways. Where the dining room stands today is
Speaker 1: the side of the office where William Junior and Charles
Speaker 1: took their own lives. In that room, people have seen
Speaker 1: an apparition of a man sitting down to dinner, only
Speaker 1: to vanish when approached. Glasses are said to levitate on
Speaker 1: their own. Some claimed to have seen the apparition of Lilian,
Speaker 1: the Lavender Lady in the room. The guest rooms are
Speaker 1: named after family members and each has its own unique activity.
Speaker 1: And the Charles Lamp Suite, small objects sometimes move around
Speaker 1: on their own, and Charles has been spotted in his
Speaker 1: top hat in the space. And the Elsa Lamp Suite,
Speaker 1: which is her childhood bedroom, people report mischievous behavior attributed
Speaker 1: to kids who stayed in the mansion when it was
Speaker 1: used as overflow for the local pediatric hospital. Guests experience
Speaker 1: something pulling at the sheets while they are trying to sleep,
Speaker 1: or tugging at their legs. In the William Lamp Suite,
Speaker 1: people say they hear footsteps running up the stairs and
Speaker 1: someone kicking the door. As Kathy Wiser Alexander wrote, when
Speaker 1: William killed himself, William Jr. Was known to have run
Speaker 1: up the stairs to his father's room and, finding it locked,
Speaker 1: began to kick the door to get to his father.
Speaker 1: Other guests have reported hearing moaning in this room. The
Speaker 1: womanizing William Jr. Is also rumored to haunt the women's
Speaker 1: bathroom on the first floor. Women say something peaks over
Speaker 1: the tops of the stalls and turns on the water
Speaker 1: when no one else is in the bathroom. In the basement,
Speaker 1: in the tunnel area, which staff members allegedly called the
Speaker 1: Gates of Hell, people report seeing a shadow figure and
Speaker 1: sometimes hearing phantom dog barking. The darkest stories, though, come
Speaker 1: from the attic. Some believe that William Jr's illegitimate son
Speaker 1: haunts the attic, where he spent his life. A few
Speaker 1: sources claim his name is Zeke. People frequently report seeing
Speaker 1: the face of a boy in the attic windows, but
Speaker 1: some believe he was a ward of the state who
Speaker 1: died there when the house was used as patient housing.
Speaker 1: In Missouri's Haunted Route sixty six, Jane Tremire wrote, another
Speaker 1: legend concerning the boy is that he was William's brother,
Speaker 1: born when William's mother, Julie, was close to fifty, and
Speaker 1: that the child was deformed because of her advanced age.
Speaker 1: Some sources say Zeke died at sixteen, others say he
Speaker 1: was aged thirty paranormal investigators report that toys left in
Speaker 1: the attic will be moved when they return, and the
Speaker 1: voice of a child saying help me, help me has
Speaker 1: been reported here. Betty Burnett Balanger says this spirit is
Speaker 1: very scared, afraid of people, and believes that he's looking
Speaker 1: for his mother. To talk more about the hauntings at
Speaker 1: Limp Mansion, I have a special treat for you. My
Speaker 1: dear friend Jeff Belanger will be joining us. Both of
Speaker 1: us have investigated the Limp Mansion and we can't wait
Speaker 1: for you to listen in on our conversation about what
Speaker 1: we and others have experienced there. That's coming up after
Speaker 1: the break. All right, So I am now joined by
Speaker 1: one of my dearest friends, Mr Jeff Blanger. Who is
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know you are? You wear many hats,
Speaker 1: your paranormal researcher, author now podcast hosts like I don't
Speaker 1: even know what to call you anymore? Jeff, What what
Speaker 1: should we call you? Just don't call me late for
Speaker 1: dinner or happy hour? This is true. That's why I
Speaker 1: brought you here because I know that you are very
Speaker 1: familiar with Limp Mansion. You've been there. I've been there.
Speaker 1: You're all so very familiar with beer, so it also
Speaker 1: seemed fitting. Wow, that's yeah, both are true. I guess yep.
Speaker 1: I can't argue either one of those. But before we
Speaker 1: get started, you know, anytime I have a guest on
Speaker 1: who's someone that, like, I've known for a long time,
Speaker 1: there's always this kind of little trip down memory lane.
Speaker 1: And I think that what listeners might not know is
Speaker 1: I would say, if you were to like turn back
Speaker 1: time and say who was the most influential person and
Speaker 1: Amy Brunei's paranormal career, I say, with air quotes, who
Speaker 1: would that be? And I think that person would be
Speaker 1: Jeff Balanger. Get out of here. I mean it because
Speaker 1: I think many people think that I just kind of
Speaker 1: appeared on ghost Hunters and that's when I first existed,
Speaker 1: but well before that, I was in the paranormal scene.
Speaker 1: And I just remember you and I connected at a
Speaker 1: conference and then you came out to a little conference
Speaker 1: I was holding with my paranormal group, and you were
Speaker 1: just always really great to bounce ideas off of. And
Speaker 1: I remember particularly I was doing this kind of paranormal
Speaker 1: group dynamics lecture, which is like my first lecture, and
Speaker 1: you were always super helpful with stuff like that. So, well,
Speaker 1: that's nice memory. Yeah, I remember we were in Volcano, California,
Speaker 1: a town slightly larger than my living room, and I
Speaker 1: don't live in a mansion, just to be clear. Uh
Speaker 1: and uh. At one point we were out in the cemetery,
Speaker 1: which is a tiny little spot of land. It was
Speaker 1: close to midnight, and this drunk guy walks out holding
Speaker 1: a gun and says, what do you guys want to
Speaker 1: become a ghost tonight? And so when people say, like,
Speaker 1: have you ever been scared during an investigation, that's one
Speaker 1: of the ones I point to. I completely forgot about
Speaker 1: the shotgun wielding man drug man. So volcanoes so small
Speaker 1: that like literally if someone is born or dies, they
Speaker 1: just like they just cross off the po They don't
Speaker 1: even paint it. I don't think i've been back there since.
Speaker 1: I think that I think you have worked. He won
Speaker 1: games that match, But yeah, I was like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: because that's one of those stories I point to, like, Yep,
Speaker 1: I was genuinely scared. But I do recommend your books
Speaker 1: on the regular too. Well, thank you, so lent Mansion.
Speaker 1: I investigated the Lamp Mansion many many years ago. I
Speaker 1: actually rewatched the episode of ghost Hunters that we filmed.
Speaker 1: They're just you know, to get kind of nostalgic before
Speaker 1: I recorded this podcast. I'm not sure if it was
Speaker 1: the best idea. But do you remember the place very
Speaker 1: well now in your recollection? And I know you've done
Speaker 1: a lot of interviews, I know you've been there. What
Speaker 1: do you think people probably experience the most at the
Speaker 1: Limp Mansion. Well, you know you've already established this family
Speaker 1: was just plagued by suicide, which is it runs in families,
Speaker 1: it really does. And so when you understand, when you
Speaker 1: know what happened, I mean today, if you're in the
Speaker 1: restaurant dining area, or if you're by the bar, you're
Speaker 1: in the former lamp offices, and two people shot themselves
Speaker 1: right there. One guy shot his dog and then himself
Speaker 1: right Charles and and Billie, and I sort of feel
Speaker 1: like you tune into that sadness when you're inside there.
Speaker 1: You I'm the kind of person that researches everything before
Speaker 1: I go. I mean, I want to know where everything happened,
Speaker 1: what rooms and so on. So when I walked in there,
Speaker 1: I was just you know, you look around the bar area,
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, this is where someone chose to
Speaker 1: end his own life, and that's different than a murder
Speaker 1: or a natural cause death, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like someone was in a really dark, bad place and
Speaker 1: ended it right here. And I remember speaking with one
Speaker 1: of the tour guides at the house who said there
Speaker 1: was one night she was camped out in a cot
Speaker 1: down in that area because I guess the rooms were full,
Speaker 1: and she was sleeping there and she woke up to
Speaker 1: find a man pacing around her cot and he bent
Speaker 1: down over her head and he started to like make
Speaker 1: some moaning sound, and she said to him, you know
Speaker 1: you're you're frightening me, and the man disappeared, and that's
Speaker 1: when she said she realized she believed these spirits were interactive.
Speaker 1: People have been pushed and touched. I spoke to one
Speaker 1: employee who said he saw it looked like, you know,
Speaker 1: heat waves coming off a hot road in one of
Speaker 1: the stairwells. And their stories in the bedrooms and so on.
Speaker 1: But I think the most prominent spirits would be Billy
Speaker 1: and Charles Limp. And then also there's a lady in
Speaker 1: White that some people believe is Julia Limp, who was
Speaker 1: also died there. I believe she died of cancer though, right.
Speaker 1: It is a place that's filled with a lot of sadness.
Speaker 1: And it's strange because you know, they were just kind
Speaker 1: of such this influential family and then just it just
Speaker 1: kind of descended into darkness and literally like the last
Speaker 1: one died and it was just completely snuffed out. It's
Speaker 1: a very sad story. Regardless of any hauntings you might encounter,
Speaker 1: the energy there is definitely heavy sometimes. I think it's
Speaker 1: really kind of interesting how some of these places that
Speaker 1: we investigator frequent so often become places like bars and
Speaker 1: restaurants and inns, and then you walk in and there's
Speaker 1: these people and they're just like laughing and you know,
Speaker 1: have getting married and having the best times of their lives.
Speaker 1: And as investigators and researchers, like we look around and
Speaker 1: we think, oh my gosh, like I know what happened here.
Speaker 1: And I don't know that everyone who goes there knows
Speaker 1: exactly what happened there. No, I'm sure they don't. They
Speaker 1: just sort of look right past it. And forgive me
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, but I believe alcohol is a depressant,
Speaker 1: So so there's that and I mean when you say
Speaker 1: this family was an empire, all empires fall, they just do.
Speaker 1: But I mean, if you've heard of beer, so they
Speaker 1: were the first to make Falstaff beer, which you may
Speaker 1: have heard of a little obscure, and they sold that
Speaker 1: label to someone else who continues to make it to
Speaker 1: this day. But Leam's best friend was a Dolphus Bush
Speaker 1: of course, Budweiser, right, and William Lem's daughter Hilda married
Speaker 1: into the Papst family, perhaps Blue Ribbon, perhaps Budweiser, Falstaff.
Speaker 1: I mean, these are the biggest names in beer, and
Speaker 1: they all have a connection to this mansion, to this
Speaker 1: empire that that you know, rose and then eventually fell. Well,
Speaker 1: they also have suicides in their families as well. We
Speaker 1: went into it in the first half already, but they
Speaker 1: also kind of had not to the extent the Lamps did.
Speaker 1: But it was just strange that like kind of around
Speaker 1: the same time these deaths occurred in these big beer families.
Speaker 1: So I know, when I'm kind of looking back to
Speaker 1: my experience there, like I was there with Ghostenders. I
Speaker 1: believe we were there for two nights and investigated and
Speaker 1: so I was investigating with Chris Williams if anyone knows
Speaker 1: Chris Williams. She is like the biggest skeptic you will
Speaker 1: ever meet. Like, I remember us having experiences and she
Speaker 1: would say she saw a shadow, and then she would
Speaker 1: second guest herself twenty minutes later, and maybe I saw
Speaker 1: a shadow. I'm not sure what I saw, you know,
Speaker 1: but it Lent mansion. We did have this kind of
Speaker 1: crazy experience where we were in the basement looking at
Speaker 1: these this set of stairs and there's this little kind
Speaker 1: of emergency light that sits at the foot of the
Speaker 1: stairs so you don't fall down them. And both of
Speaker 1: us saw some like feet cross in front of that light.
Speaker 1: On two or three occasions, were just staring at it
Speaker 1: looked like someone was walking up those stairs. And so
Speaker 1: then when we kind of went closer to investigate, you know,
Speaker 1: we were trying to kind of recreate it. We heard
Speaker 1: upstairs someone walking around and stomping around upstairs, and you know,
Speaker 1: we were convinced like maybe someone was up there. We
Speaker 1: weren't aware of our crew or something like that. We
Speaker 1: account for everyone, but no one was there. It was
Speaker 1: almost like something was leading us up the stairs. And
Speaker 1: I think people experienced stuff like that on a regular
Speaker 1: basis there. No. I remember talking to someone who had
Speaker 1: worked in the building for ten years, and he was
Speaker 1: telling me there was one night he was locked out
Speaker 1: of one section of the building and he was walking
Speaker 1: up the stairways and he saw a shadow suddenly coming
Speaker 1: towards him quite quickly. All he remembers was that it
Speaker 1: was very dark, and it was like the silhouette of
Speaker 1: a man with a top hat. And he said, he said,
Speaker 1: I swung my fist at it. I thought it was
Speaker 1: getting jumped or something. My my fist went right through it.
Speaker 1: I literally fell over from the inertia of the thing.
Speaker 1: And then no one's there. And then of course he's
Speaker 1: reminded that he's in a very haunted building, and this
Speaker 1: is you know, he's heard things and heard other employees
Speaker 1: talk about their experiences, and that happened to him. I mean,
Speaker 1: he took a swing at a ghost. Uh. This is
Speaker 1: not something you forget, obviously. It's a very real experience.
Speaker 1: If your istoral reaction is to like try to hit it,
Speaker 1: you're clearly seeing something in that moment, right, yeah, right exactly.
Speaker 1: And then to me, places like let mansion you said before,
Speaker 1: how people could be having parties and weddings and in
Speaker 1: all kinds of things and not even know the history,
Speaker 1: but you probably know it's haunted. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: one of the most prominent haunts in the United States.
Speaker 1: I mean it comes up on lists again and again.
Speaker 1: But if you ask the question, well, why is this
Speaker 1: place haunted? Well, now you've got to go back and
Speaker 1: learn why and then connect connect to that history and
Speaker 1: those suicides and the tragedy tragedies that we know, you know,
Speaker 1: have happened before and will happen again. Wealthy families, you
Speaker 1: know that that get rich and prosperous and then lose
Speaker 1: everything and rather than be poor, that they'll take their
Speaker 1: own lives. It's the tragic story that sadly has played
Speaker 1: out many times even since. Now what do you think
Speaker 1: of the rumors concerning the attic? Now suppose said ly
Speaker 1: there is the spirit Zeke? Yes, So what do you
Speaker 1: think of Zeke? Do you think what do you think
Speaker 1: he actually haunts the I do you think Zeke existed?
Speaker 1: What are your opinions on that? So? Yeah, William and
Speaker 1: Lillian right, so allegedly had a child named Zeke who
Speaker 1: was physically deformed and had other problems, and they sort
Speaker 1: of kept him locked away, which um sounds today, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of ludicrous, but there was a time where that
Speaker 1: was normal. Before the days of institutions, having someone in
Speaker 1: your family like that was seen as a huge embarrassment,
Speaker 1: which is tragic, right, I mean, these are human beings,
Speaker 1: but that was a different time. You you would literally
Speaker 1: lock folks in basements and in rooms and in addicts
Speaker 1: and so on, rather than have people know that you know,
Speaker 1: this is a family member. So it's not impossible. But
Speaker 1: I found no documentation either, and I looked and looked, um,
Speaker 1: but the story sticks around, and you know, sometimes as
Speaker 1: you know, when there's smoke, there's fire with this stuff.
Speaker 1: So it's not impossible, but I can't say it absolutely
Speaker 1: happened either. But then you know, who knows, do Zeke
Speaker 1: become almost like this thought form, this idea that well, yeah,
Speaker 1: this family probably had all kinds of secrets, and that
Speaker 1: secret manifest itself as something haunting the attic, and then
Speaker 1: those who may not know better or no for sure,
Speaker 1: call it Zeke. And it might not be it might
Speaker 1: be something else. It could be, you know, something weirder
Speaker 1: than we can even guess, but we attach it to
Speaker 1: that story and I sort of like that it sticks
Speaker 1: around because there was a time where that happened and
Speaker 1: we can't let that happen again to human beings. No,
Speaker 1: we definitely cannot. It is interesting to me because there's
Speaker 1: different reports as far as weather Zeke passed away at
Speaker 1: sixteen or at thirty, and but you do have activity
Speaker 1: that kind of lends itself to being childlike, which could
Speaker 1: have something to do with when it was kind of
Speaker 1: overflow for the local pediatric hospital as well. So it's
Speaker 1: one of those things that we may never know. And
Speaker 1: like you were saying that, it does bring into play
Speaker 1: the whole idea that it could be some sort of
Speaker 1: thought form. I mean, this place is invest deigated on
Speaker 1: the regular They do do ghost tours a lot. You
Speaker 1: do have a lot of investigators going in there. You know,
Speaker 1: are they kind of bringing Zeke to life a little bit?
Speaker 1: Who knows? Well? Yeah, well, you know, to like you
Speaker 1: have a false sense of control. When you put a
Speaker 1: name on a thing that bumps in the night, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's Zeke. You could be totally wrong, but if enough
Speaker 1: people say it over and over, you think like, I've
Speaker 1: labeled it. Therefore you know it's not so scary. We
Speaker 1: do it all the time. I've called it like most
Speaker 1: famous phenomenon, right, Like, you know, you're at an old
Speaker 1: bed and breakfast in Virginia that says George Washington slept here,
Speaker 1: and there's like a knock on the wall and it's
Speaker 1: the ghost of George Washington, right, who slept there one night.
Speaker 1: You know, there are these kind of figures that have
Speaker 1: stayed everywhere apparently, or have served time in every prison.
Speaker 1: And yeah, George Washington al capone high on that list,
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln, so we've met them all. I actually have
Speaker 1: another sort of theory on it, and maybe maybe Washington
Speaker 1: is haunting all those places, or Carpona or anybody else,
Speaker 1: because when you go into a location and you sort
Speaker 1: of tune into that story in in a weird way,
Speaker 1: you kind of summon it. You've done group investigations where
Speaker 1: we bring people in to have these experiences, and how
Speaker 1: many times has someone said, like, you know, you're at
Speaker 1: the Stanley Hotel in Colorado and someone's like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: my grandmother's coming through and you're like, wow, did she
Speaker 1: work here? Did she used to live here or visit
Speaker 1: it a lot? No, she's never been to Colorado, right,
Speaker 1: and you go, oh, and I'm not saying that they're wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that they're in a mindset that they're
Speaker 1: in a haunted place. It's dark, it's late at night,
Speaker 1: and now they're open to things that are probably around
Speaker 1: us all the time. We just don't think about them
Speaker 1: when we're in the grocery store, you know, getting chips
Speaker 1: and Falstaff beer. I think this goes for a lot
Speaker 1: of haunted locations, even not necessarily people that you might know,
Speaker 1: but just enough people investigating. I mean, there is this
Speaker 1: kind of idea that any nearby spirits or anyone that
Speaker 1: you might kind of connect to my kind of heads
Speaker 1: your way, you know, And so that could be the
Speaker 1: case for the Lamp Mansion as well. I mean, when
Speaker 1: people think about haunted places and Missouri, the Limp Mansion
Speaker 1: is kind of like the top on the list. I
Speaker 1: would say, yeah, absolutely, And I have these tops trading
Speaker 1: cards from years ago, and they only made a dozen
Speaker 1: of them, but they were haunted places and the Lamp
Speaker 1: was one of them. It's one of those places that
Speaker 1: and you know, as investigators, it's it's been on every show.
Speaker 1: Let's be honest, all of them, right, if have been
Speaker 1: at Lamp at some point, and it just makes it
Speaker 1: more famous and for those of people that like to
Speaker 1: check it out for themselves, it sort of calls to
Speaker 1: you in a way. Meanwhile, you're also stepping in the
Speaker 1: footprints of hundreds, if not thousands, of other investigators over
Speaker 1: the years who have left their own, you know, residual
Speaker 1: stuff behind as well. Yeah. Well, I mean I do
Speaker 1: love that they embrace that past, like and when you
Speaker 1: go to their website, it's you know, the hauntings are
Speaker 1: front and center. There are a brewery, there's a Lamp
Speaker 1: brewery there now, and they're kind of embracing all of it,
Speaker 1: which and not much has changed either. When you go
Speaker 1: in there, it is kind of a step back in time,
Speaker 1: Like obviously it had some other incarnations since the family
Speaker 1: left it, but I mean you walk in and it
Speaker 1: looks like you would imagine it looked when that family
Speaker 1: lived there, And and that's a big part of it,
Speaker 1: isn't it. Right. I Mean, if it was completely renovated
Speaker 1: with like neon lights and whatever, it takes you out
Speaker 1: of the moment. But when you when you see that,
Speaker 1: like you're there. I've said that like about the Queen Mary.
Speaker 1: You walk onto that ship and you're like, wow, it
Speaker 1: feels like it could be like I'm wearing a tuxedo
Speaker 1: or something. It's that context is such an important part
Speaker 1: of this, and I think it helps you tune in.
Speaker 1: And if you're all open to the notion of history
Speaker 1: being alive and and ghosts and spirits and so on,
Speaker 1: a place like that, you know, no wonder. It's such
Speaker 1: a hot bed. Absolutely, lots of hauntings. There are lots
Speaker 1: of experiences I need to get back. I feel like
Speaker 1: every time I go to Missouri, I'm kind of like
Speaker 1: in the Kansas City area, but I need to like
Speaker 1: mosey on over to St. Louis apparently and go see
Speaker 1: some ghosts and have a beer. Absolutely, and what I love,
Speaker 1: you know to it, and it's not lost you know
Speaker 1: when you're when you're there, especially if you're from out
Speaker 1: of state. Missouri is of course the show me state.
Speaker 1: And that's all we want to see, isn't it. Just
Speaker 1: show me the ghosts, Show me the ghosts. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of them there. I think we're good now. Okay, okay, So,
Speaker 1: first of all, your podcast, which I have listened to
Speaker 1: quite a few episodes of New England Legends. Correct, thanks,
Speaker 1: we don't ask much of you. They're only like fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes long. Well, I love it because, like I have
Speaker 1: become a New Englander in the last ten or twelve years,
Speaker 1: which is so strange. When when we met, I was
Speaker 1: still living in California, and so I love that showcases
Speaker 1: local haunts. But I mean it really resonates with anyone,
Speaker 1: Like even when I lived in California, I would have
Speaker 1: listened to this podcast. Well, thank you, Yeah, no, it's
Speaker 1: been so much fun. And what's cool is like our audience.
Speaker 1: I mean, the stories are really crowdsource now, and my
Speaker 1: favorite stories are the totally obscure ones that I've never
Speaker 1: heard of, you know, where someone's like, hey, I grew
Speaker 1: up in this little town in Maine and we had
Speaker 1: this like cursed grave, or there's this bottomless well or
Speaker 1: that kids say is haunted. You know, just these story
Speaker 1: worries that sounds familiar no matter where you live, because
Speaker 1: you know, these these things travel, but we have our
Speaker 1: own local versions of them, and it's a connection to
Speaker 1: incredible history, whether it's witches and witch trials or history
Speaker 1: that left a mark or a scar or a stain,
Speaker 1: if you will, And that's you know, the haunting that's
Speaker 1: still around today. I just I absolutely adore and we
Speaker 1: get to cover all kinds of weird stuff, not just ghosts,
Speaker 1: but aliens and bigfoot and cryptids and every weird thing
Speaker 1: in between. No, I love it because I'm always discovering
Speaker 1: new stories on it. You guys have done just a
Speaker 1: really great job with it. I super enjoy it. For real.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you want people to know about
Speaker 1: what you're working You're always working on so much. You're
Speaker 1: you're like as busy as I am. Use so many
Speaker 1: irons in the fire. No. I've been doing a lot
Speaker 1: of shock docs for Discovery plus have done seven of
Speaker 1: them now, so um, that's that's been sort of fun.
Speaker 1: I'm actually on camera for those, so I'm not just
Speaker 1: behind the scenes and that's been good. And working on
Speaker 1: a new book just in time for Christmas next year,
Speaker 1: and uh, it's it's gonna It's gonna save Christmas. That's
Speaker 1: my objective. I can't wait. Well, you have been awesome
Speaker 1: as always. I super appreciate you taking the time. And
Speaker 1: someday maybe we'll be at the Lamp Mansion together looking
Speaker 1: for ghosts and having a beer or two. Maybe they
Speaker 1: have chardonnay for me, but I will have a beer
Speaker 1: when one necessary. All right, Thank you, Jeff, I appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Thanks Amy. Clearly, stories of the lamps still fascinate as
Speaker 1: much today as they did when they were alive. While
Speaker 1: I do believe the mansion to very much be haunted,
Speaker 1: part of me hopes it's not by that family. With
Speaker 1: all those demons haunting them in life. I so hope
Speaker 1: they have moved on and aren't haunting us in death.
Speaker 1: So next time you stop into Limp Mansion and pop
Speaker 1: open a beer, think about all the history and turmoil
Speaker 1: that fueled the beverage you are about to sip. I'm
Speaker 1: Amy Brunei, and this was Haunted Road. M Haunted Road
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio and Grim and
Speaker 1: Mild from Aaron Mankey. Haunted Road is hosted and written
Speaker 1: by me Amy Bruney, additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn. The
Speaker 1: show is edited and produced by rema El Kali and
Speaker 1: supervising producer Josh Thing and executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams,
Speaker 1: and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. H