WEBVTT - S1 E11: There Comes a Point Where the Only Way You Can Make a Statement is to Pick Up a Gun

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<v Speaker 1>Rip Current is a production of iHeart Podcasts. The views

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<v Speaker 1>and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the host,

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<v Speaker 1>producers or parent company. Listener discretion is it Fine?

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<v Speaker 2>Five suspective members of the Symbionese Liberation Army are dead

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<v Speaker 2>following the bloodiest and most massive gun battle in the

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<v Speaker 2>history of Los Angeles hundred.

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<v Speaker 3>After the disastrous Los Angeles shootout in May nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 3>four that had left six members of the Simonese Liberation

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<v Speaker 3>Army dead, the remaining three Corps members, Bill and Emily

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<v Speaker 3>Harris and Patty Hurst went underground. They became for sixteen

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<v Speaker 3>months the most wanted fugitives in America. During that time,

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<v Speaker 3>new recruits joined a vastly changed SLA. Sinq was dead,

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<v Speaker 3>Patty and the Harris's state underground mostly out of Pennsylvania

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<v Speaker 3>farmhouse before eventually moving back to the Bay Area. This

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<v Speaker 3>new SLA included the three Solia siblings, Steve and his

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<v Speaker 3>sisters Kathy and Joe, Michael Bordon, who'd been involved in

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<v Speaker 3>a loose organization called the Revolutionary Army, and an artist

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<v Speaker 3>named Wendy Yashimora. On September fifteenth, nineteen seventy five, just

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<v Speaker 3>one week before Sarah Jane Moore would take a shot

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<v Speaker 3>at Gerald Ford, the FBI visited a two hundred unit

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<v Speaker 3>apartment complex in Pacifica, California, just south of San Francisco.

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<v Speaker 3>The agent showed the manager, a man named Bill Osgood,

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<v Speaker 3>some pictures, wondering if he recognized any of the people

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<v Speaker 3>in them as working on a crew painting the apartments.

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<v Speaker 3>Osgood pooked out two Michael Bordon and Steven Solia. The

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<v Speaker 3>manager said that two young women also worked on the crew.

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<v Speaker 3>The agents waited, and at ten thirty that morning saw

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<v Speaker 3>Kathy and Joe Solia arrive ready to work. After sixteen months,

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<v Speaker 3>they'd finally located the SLA the big question where Patty

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<v Speaker 3>Hurst or the harrises with them. Around five point thirty

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<v Speaker 3>that afternoon, the two Solia sisters left the complex with

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<v Speaker 3>an unidentified man and drove to a house at six

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<v Speaker 3>twenty five Morse Street in San Francisco. The agents watched

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<v Speaker 3>the three people enter the house and circled the block

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<v Speaker 3>a few times before being called off. Morse was a narrow,

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<v Speaker 3>one way street and very difficult to stake out. The

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<v Speaker 3>next morning, the sixteenth, a new FBI team watched as

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<v Speaker 3>Steven Solia left the house alone at ten point fifty.

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<v Speaker 3>They followed him as he drove his forward further into

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<v Speaker 3>San Francisco to two eighty eight Procida, where he picked

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<v Speaker 3>up his sisters and brought them to the complex in

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<v Speaker 3>Pacifica for another day of painting. The FBI set up

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<v Speaker 3>a watch at the Persida address. It was a busier

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<v Speaker 3>street and easier to surveil, and they thought Kathy Solia

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<v Speaker 3>most likely lived there. The consensus was that Kathy was

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<v Speaker 3>the key person to keep an eye on. The following day,

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<v Speaker 3>the seventeenth, the FBI watched Kathy and Joe leave two

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<v Speaker 3>eighty eight Prisida at ten am, walked to their car

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<v Speaker 3>and presumably had to work at the apartment complex. The

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<v Speaker 3>agents did not follow. They stayed with the stakeout. At

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<v Speaker 3>ten point fifty, a man left the house. He had

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<v Speaker 3>a full beard and wore cut off jeans and a

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<v Speaker 3>T shirt. It was Bill Harris. He went back into

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<v Speaker 3>the house and emerged again forty minutes later, this time

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<v Speaker 3>with Emily Harris. They went for a jog. The FBI

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<v Speaker 3>had located two of the three most wanted fugitives. Where

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<v Speaker 3>was Patty On Thursday, September eighteenth, the FBI agents again

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<v Speaker 3>watched two eighty eight Prosida, but not the house on

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<v Speaker 3>Morse Street. The observed Kathy and Joe leave again for work.

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<v Speaker 3>A young black man pulled up to the house in

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<v Speaker 3>a truck. He knocked on the door and talked to

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<v Speaker 3>Bill Harris for a moment, then the two of them

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<v Speaker 3>walked down to the truck. The agent's tensed, not sure

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<v Speaker 3>what was happening, but Harris walked away from the truck

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<v Speaker 3>carrying a fish. The man was a black Muslim fish peddler.

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<v Speaker 3>At ten of one, Bill and Emily Harris came out

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<v Speaker 3>and went for their jog. After the shootout in Los Angeles,

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<v Speaker 3>the FBI wanted to arrest the Harrises on the street.

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<v Speaker 3>They got in position, and when the Harrises returned to

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<v Speaker 3>the block, four agents stepped out of a car and

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<v Speaker 3>identified themselves. Emily tried to run, but agents blocked her path.

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<v Speaker 3>She screamed expletives at them as she was put into

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<v Speaker 3>an FBI car. Bill stayed silent and was driven away

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<v Speaker 3>in a separate car. FBI agents searched the house. They

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<v Speaker 3>found guns, bomb making equipment, and radical literature. They did

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<v Speaker 3>not find Patty Hurst. Members of the San Francisco Police

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<v Speaker 3>Department and the FBI went to the Morse Street address.

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<v Speaker 3>They didn't expect to find anything, but wanted to cover

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<v Speaker 3>all the bases. Looking through the kitchen window, they saw

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<v Speaker 3>two women at a table. An FBI agent named Tom

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<v Speaker 3>Padden kicked down the door, gun drawn, yelling at the

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<v Speaker 3>two women to freeze. One of the women seemed to

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<v Speaker 3>be thinking of retreating to a back room. Padden pointed

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<v Speaker 3>the gun at the other woman and yelled, freeze or

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<v Speaker 3>all shoot her in the head. The woman laughed, then giggled,

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<v Speaker 3>then put her hands up. It was Patty Hurst. According

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<v Speaker 3>to the FBI, Patty was arrested at two twenty five

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<v Speaker 3>on September eighteenth. Sometime just prior to that, radio station

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<v Speaker 3>KPFA received to call from a woman claiming to be

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<v Speaker 3>Sarah Jane Moore. She told station manager Larry Benske that

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<v Speaker 3>the arrest had happened. Bensky knew Sarah Jane. He recognized

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<v Speaker 3>her voice. It's not clear how she came by this information.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm to be bald, and I'm Mary Catherine Garrison, and

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<v Speaker 4>this is rip current.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, I yelled the bitch has got a gun before

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<v Speaker 5>I made the lunch flot as the trigger was going.

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<v Speaker 4>On Episode eleven, there comes a point where the only

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<v Speaker 4>way you can make a statement is to pick up

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<v Speaker 4>a gun.

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<v Speaker 2>Good evening, Patty Hurst has been taken into custody. The

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<v Speaker 2>FBI says Patty Hurst was picked up today in San Francisco.

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<v Speaker 2>The hearst newspaper Eiras has been missing for nineteen months.

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<v Speaker 3>Patty Hurst's capture was easily the biggest story in the country.

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<v Speaker 3>California newspapers in particular were suddenly under pressure to produce

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<v Speaker 3>stories about or related to her captivity and arrest. Ellen Hume,

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<v Speaker 3>who was a reporter at the La Times, had already

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<v Speaker 3>been working on a series of articles about the current

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<v Speaker 3>state of the radical left, and.

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<v Speaker 6>I did it with a colleague at the La Times,

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<v Speaker 6>Arta Zechino, and she and I went out and spent

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<v Speaker 6>a long time interviewing everybody we could about all aspects.

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<v Speaker 6>How did the Black Panthers fit in, how of the

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<v Speaker 6>weather underground fit in? And so we were trying to

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<v Speaker 6>create this huge series.

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<v Speaker 3>The plan was to run a sidebar about Sarah Jane

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<v Speaker 3>Moore to accompany one of the stories in the series,

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<v Speaker 3>but with Patty and custody. The deadline for the series

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<v Speaker 3>was moved up to begin the far following Monday. They

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<v Speaker 3>had a weekend to get the articles ready to publish again.

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<v Speaker 3>Sarah Jean often went by Sally at this time, and

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<v Speaker 3>that is how Ellen refers to her here.

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<v Speaker 6>So Narda and I were continuing to work on our series,

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<v Speaker 6>and then all of a sudden, Patty Hurst and Harris

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<v Speaker 6>As were arrested in San Francisco, which meant our series

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<v Speaker 6>had a new time peg. We had to get it

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<v Speaker 6>in the paper immediately.

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<v Speaker 3>So we worked.

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<v Speaker 6>Narda and I worked all weekend preparing all these different

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<v Speaker 6>packages that were going to go in the paper one

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<v Speaker 6>day after another. And the first story ran on page

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<v Speaker 6>one on a Monday, and the story about Sally was

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<v Speaker 6>supposed to run with another piece that was going to

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<v Speaker 6>go on Wednesday. That was the whole plan, so we

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<v Speaker 6>had multiple stories. Her little sidebar was going to go

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<v Speaker 6>on Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 3>While Ellen was working on her series. The weekend of

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<v Speaker 3>September twentieth and twenty first, President Ford was back in

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<v Speaker 3>California for the first time since his close call with Lynette.

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<v Speaker 3>From On Saturday, he received an honorary degree at Pepperdine

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<v Speaker 3>University in Malibu. Ford then flew to the Monterey Peninsula,

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<v Speaker 3>where he played golf in the afternoon. He and his

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<v Speaker 3>wife spent the night at the residence of Lawrence Firestone,

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<v Speaker 3>the ambassador to Belgium. The next day, Sunday, the twenty first,

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<v Speaker 3>the President would travel to Palo Alto, where he would

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<v Speaker 3>dedicate Stanford's new law school building. That Saturday, Sarah Jane

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<v Speaker 3>phoned San Francisco Police Inspector Jack O'shay. She had met

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<v Speaker 3>him during her work for the People in Need program

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<v Speaker 3>and had since occasionally fed him bits of information. On

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<v Speaker 3>the call, she told him that she was thinking about

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<v Speaker 3>driving down to Palo Alto two, in her words, test

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<v Speaker 3>the system. Jack O'shay was alarmed by this statement. He

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<v Speaker 3>called the Secret Service to tell them about the conversation.

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<v Speaker 3>Said this Gal could be another squeaky from At this time,

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<v Speaker 3>Sarah Jane was becoming increasingly isolated, shunned by the radicals

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<v Speaker 3>in the Bay Area because she was a known informant

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<v Speaker 3>for law enforcement. Popeye Jackson's execution had made clear to

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<v Speaker 3>her the danger she was in. She was an admitted informant.

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<v Speaker 3>Her accusations against Popeye may have led to his death,

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<v Speaker 3>and she had been called out publicly by the Vietnam

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<v Speaker 3>Veterans Against the War and other groups for her infiltration

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<v Speaker 3>into radical organizations. Since entering the world of the Bay

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<v Speaker 3>Area radical scene through the People in Need program, Sarah

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<v Speaker 3>Jane had done everything she could to be in the

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<v Speaker 3>center of events. This was no longer possible with most

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<v Speaker 3>of the far left groups that she'd been involved with

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<v Speaker 3>for the previous year. In an interview with Ellen Hume

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<v Speaker 3>two days after her attempt, Sarah Jane.

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<v Speaker 4>Said, I knew I was rapidly reaching a point that

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<v Speaker 4>all of the ADAM news of taking action were being

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<v Speaker 4>closed one at a time.

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<v Speaker 3>Sunday morning, September twenty first, Jack O'shay again called the

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<v Speaker 3>Secret Service about Sarah Jane. He then met with her

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<v Speaker 3>in person. During this meeting, O'shay asked Sarah Jane if

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<v Speaker 3>she had a gun. Yes, she said she had a

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<v Speaker 3>forty four. It shows how crazy things had gotten in

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<v Speaker 3>Sarah Jane's life that she went straight from that meeting

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<v Speaker 3>with Inspector o'sha to participate in a potential sting operation

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<v Speaker 3>with the Firearms Bureau of the Department of Treasury. She

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<v Speaker 3>and a short stocky ATF agent who went by the

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<v Speaker 3>name Chuck, drove to the Danville house of Mark Fernwood

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<v Speaker 3>two weeks before. Fernwood had sold Sarah Jane of forty four.

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<v Speaker 3>Now she was back with a check to pay for

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<v Speaker 3>the gun. She had told the ATF that she suspected

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<v Speaker 3>that Fernwood was selling guns illegally. It's not clear if

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<v Speaker 3>she really believed this. This is Sarah Jane being interviewed

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<v Speaker 3>by Ben Williams for KPIX in San Francisco.

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<v Speaker 7>So, the man who went with you to buy the

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<v Speaker 7>thirty eighth that you found at the President was a

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<v Speaker 7>government agent. Yes, his name was Chuck or something like that. Yes,

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<v Speaker 7>what was his role in helping ut to buy a gun?

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<v Speaker 8>He wasn't helping me buy a gun. And that's a

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<v Speaker 8>part of the very in my world was falling apart

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<v Speaker 8>at the end. There were a variety of pressures that

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<v Speaker 8>were brought to bear on me, and there was a

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<v Speaker 8>little bit of blackmail on the part of the SFPD,

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<v Speaker 8>and I got trapped into something and it was the

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<v Speaker 8>kind of thing that was happening to me at the end.

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<v Speaker 3>It seems likely that this half hearted attempt to set

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<v Speaker 3>up Mark Fernwood was in response to or perceived pressure

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<v Speaker 3>from law enforcement to give them something useful. She'd been

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<v Speaker 3>largely shunned by the radical left after confessing that she

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<v Speaker 3>had been an FBI informant. Her need for connection as

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<v Speaker 3>she became increasingly isolated, led her to continue to work

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<v Speaker 3>with the San Francisco Police Department, the FBI, and other

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<v Speaker 3>agencies just for the human contact. Some of the pressures

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<v Speaker 3>she perceived may have been her own need to continue

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<v Speaker 3>to fuel those relationships. The trip to Danville came to

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<v Speaker 3>very little. The ATF agent called Chuck, walked around looking

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<v Speaker 3>at things but saying little. Sarah Jane paid Mark for

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<v Speaker 3>the forty four and made small talk. Then they left.

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<v Speaker 3>There was no indication that Fernwood was doing anything illegal

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<v Speaker 3>more biographer Jerry Spieler.

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<v Speaker 9>So nothing happened with that. But you know, she used

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<v Speaker 9>that saying, look, I really help with what you're doing.

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<v Speaker 9>You know, I'm really helping you do these things. So

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<v Speaker 9>she wanted to make herself look important in helping the

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<v Speaker 9>government do what they needed to do.

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<v Speaker 4>Sarah Jane and Chuck drove back to San Francisco. She

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<v Speaker 4>returned to her apartment at two thirty to find two

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<v Speaker 4>San Francisco police officers waiting for her. Jack O'sheay had

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<v Speaker 4>sent them. They asked her if she had a weapon,

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<v Speaker 4>and she said that she had a forty four in

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<v Speaker 4>her purse. They searched her car and found two boxes

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<v Speaker 4>of ammunition and eleven loose rounds. At the time, this

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<v Speaker 4>amounted to a misdemeanor offense in California. The officers told

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<v Speaker 4>Sarah Jane that they were going to take her to

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<v Speaker 4>the local precinct office. A blond woman emerged from Sarah

0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.080
<v Speaker 4>Jane's apartment and said she'd go with Sarah Jane to

0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.960
<v Speaker 4>the police station. This woman is believed to have been

0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.760
<v Speaker 4>a member of the radical group Tribal Thumb, who lived

0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:53.920
<v Speaker 4>with Sarah Jane for a couple of weeks that September.

0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 4>The officers didn't know this, of course, and allowed her

0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.880
<v Speaker 4>to accompany Sarah Jane. Sarah Jane was held in the

0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.120
<v Speaker 4>station until about four in the afternoon, long enough that

0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.360
<v Speaker 4>she wouldn't have time to travel the forty miles to

0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:10.640
<v Speaker 4>Palo Alto to see President Ford. Then an SFBD lieutenant

0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:12.560
<v Speaker 4>called the Secret Service to see if they wanted the

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:17.240
<v Speaker 4>SFPD to continue to hold Sarah Jane. The response they

0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.320
<v Speaker 4>could let her go. The Secret Service planned to see

0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.240
<v Speaker 4>her that night, so she was allowed to leave and

0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:27.960
<v Speaker 4>return to her apartment. At about eight thirty that evening,

0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:32.000
<v Speaker 4>two Secret Service agents, Gary Yager and Martin Haskell Junior,

0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.840
<v Speaker 4>arrived at Sarah Jane's apartment. There is no mention of

0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.080
<v Speaker 4>the blonde woman in accounts of this encounter. The two

0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.720
<v Speaker 4>agents took Sarah Jane to the Federal building on Golden

0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.160
<v Speaker 4>Gate Drive and interviewed her for about an hour and

0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:48.320
<v Speaker 4>a half. The Senate would later hold hearings investigating whether

0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:50.840
<v Speaker 4>law enforcement had made errors in their dealings with Sarah

0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:53.360
<v Speaker 4>Jane and the hours leading up to her attempt on Ford.

0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.120
<v Speaker 4>At one of the hearings, Gary Yager described their conversation

0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.760
<v Speaker 4>with Sarah Jane at the Secret Service office. She was

0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.880
<v Speaker 4>hesitant to talk and became a little upset, saying something

0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:08.240
<v Speaker 4>like I'm in a fine kettle of fish. The agents

0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.440
<v Speaker 4>asked her why she carried a gun. She said because

0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.240
<v Speaker 4>her life had been threatened, and this apparently was an

0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:18.040
<v Speaker 4>adequate explanation. They asked her whether she planned to shoot

0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:22.120
<v Speaker 4>Ford or perhaps a demonstrator. According to their testimony. She

0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:26.640
<v Speaker 4>calmly replied no to both questions. She also said that

0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:30.240
<v Speaker 4>she had no animosity towards Ford or his administration, which

0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:35.080
<v Speaker 4>she considered uncontroversial. As the interview wound down, one of

0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:39.440
<v Speaker 4>the agents phoned SFPD Inspector Jack O'sheay O'shee told the

0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.800
<v Speaker 4>agent what he knew about Sarah Jane, her background, her

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.000
<v Speaker 4>work is an informant for both the SFPD and the FBI,

0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:48.560
<v Speaker 4>and that he felt as though he knew her personally.

0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:51.680
<v Speaker 4>When he was done, the agent asked him if there

0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:56.400
<v Speaker 4>was anything else. He said no. After the interview was completed,

0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.720
<v Speaker 4>the agents concluded that Sarah Jane was not of sufficient

0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 4>ptime detection interest to warrant surveillance. They released her from custody.

0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.800
<v Speaker 4>It was sometime after one in the morning of September

0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.879
<v Speaker 4>twenty second. Within sixteen hours, Sarah Jane would fire a

0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:33.679
<v Speaker 4>shot at Gerald Ford after the break. After her release

0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.840
<v Speaker 4>from Secret Service custody in the early morning hours of Monday,

0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.800
<v Speaker 4>September twenty second, Sarah Jane presumably went home to sleep.

0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:43.560
<v Speaker 4>By nine point fifteen, she was up and making a

0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.040
<v Speaker 4>series of phone calls. She was clearly in a period

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.960
<v Speaker 4>of high stress exacerbated by her mental illness, she feared

0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.080
<v Speaker 4>for her life. She later talked about this in her

0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.879
<v Speaker 4>interview for Playboy magazine. I was going to get killed.

0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.600
<v Speaker 4>I'm glad to see stories in the paper finally that

0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.200
<v Speaker 4>people are admitting it. They had told me that if

0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.359
<v Speaker 4>anyone was saying I was safe, I never heard it.

0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.000
<v Speaker 4>I even got calls from people out of town saying,

0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:09.600
<v Speaker 4>my god, do you know what we've heard from our

0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.520
<v Speaker 4>underground contacts. They were calling to tell me I was

0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.840
<v Speaker 4>going to be killed. When people began dying around me, though,

0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.479
<v Speaker 4>I began to think maybe I was next. In an

0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:23.159
<v Speaker 4>article following Sarah Jane's attempt, Carol Pogash wrote that a

0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:27.080
<v Speaker 4>mutual friend of hers and Sarah Janes told her everything

0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.679
<v Speaker 4>was coming together on her. She had moved to the

0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.159
<v Speaker 4>Mission to be in the center of the action. She

0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.480
<v Speaker 4>had made many enemies. I warned her she might be killed.

0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.600
<v Speaker 4>Sarah Jane felt as though she needed to prove to

0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.240
<v Speaker 4>the left that she had chosen their side over that

0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:46.800
<v Speaker 4>of the establishment, meaning the FBI, SFPD and so on. Or,

0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:48.800
<v Speaker 4>to put it in terms we have already talked about,

0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.280
<v Speaker 4>she wanted to prove that she was a member of

0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:56.359
<v Speaker 4>the radical young and not Middle America. She had hoped

0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.760
<v Speaker 4>that Ellen Hume's peace about her in the La Times

0:18:58.840 --> 0:18:59.760
<v Speaker 4>might accomplish that.

0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.119
<v Speaker 6>And this is what's so interesting about the power of

0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:07.560
<v Speaker 6>the newspapers in those days. She expected that my story

0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.159
<v Speaker 6>in the La Times explaining that she'd converted to the

0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:15.720
<v Speaker 6>radical cause. She had spoken, you know, as an informant

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 6>to the FBI, but her real heart now had converted.

0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.560
<v Speaker 6>She expected that would save her life. And I didn't

0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.600
<v Speaker 6>understand the extent to which she was hanging on that

0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:27.879
<v Speaker 6>and waiting for that. I told her it was going

0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:29.960
<v Speaker 6>to take a couple more days or weeks to get

0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.080
<v Speaker 6>the story in the paper because we were waiting for

0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:36.280
<v Speaker 6>the whole series to be finished. But the stakes for

0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.280
<v Speaker 6>that story were very high for her. She believed it

0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:40.240
<v Speaker 6>would save her life.

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:43.800
<v Speaker 4>One of the calls Sarah Jane made that morning was

0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.040
<v Speaker 4>to Ellen. Ellen had been working all weekend with NARDA

0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.880
<v Speaker 4>Zechino to finish a series on the state of radicalism

0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.480
<v Speaker 4>in nineteen seventy five. The publication dates had been moved

0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:55.280
<v Speaker 4>up because of Patty Hurst's arrest.

0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.320
<v Speaker 6>So Monday rolls around and I'd been up all night

0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:05.400
<v Speaker 6>every night all weekend with NARDA. I was asleep and

0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.800
<v Speaker 6>the phone rings in my home and it's a switchboard

0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.080
<v Speaker 6>saying someone named Sarah Jane Morris or Sally Moore is

0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.760
<v Speaker 6>calling you from San Francisco. Will you take the call

0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.320
<v Speaker 6>because they would have patched it through to me. And

0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:20.679
<v Speaker 6>I said, oh, tell her to call back later, you know,

0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:22.360
<v Speaker 6>because i'd pro finally gone to bed.

0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.359
<v Speaker 4>What Ellen didn't know was that Sarah Jane thought that

0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.520
<v Speaker 4>the piece about her was supposed to run on that day, Monday,

0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.159
<v Speaker 4>the twenty second, It was actually slated for Wednesday, the

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.520
<v Speaker 4>twenty fourth, So on Monday morning, when she looked at

0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.440
<v Speaker 4>the La Times, the story wasn't there. She presumably called

0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.840
<v Speaker 4>Ellen to ask her what had happened, but Ellen didn't

0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:48.439
<v Speaker 4>take her call. Sarah Jane told Playboy Charles Bates, special

0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:50.800
<v Speaker 4>agent in charge of the San Francisco office, told me,

0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.800
<v Speaker 4>if the FBI did not like anything in the proposed story,

0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:56.520
<v Speaker 4>they would ask some higher ups at the publication to

0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.280
<v Speaker 4>edit it out. That they had done that before. She

0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.440
<v Speaker 4>felt her life was in danger. She needed to prove

0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:07.000
<v Speaker 4>herself to the radical left. The article she thought would

0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:11.960
<v Speaker 4>save her hadn't appeared, and Gerald Ford was in town

0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:17.920
<v Speaker 4>that day. Sarah Jane made other calls that morning. She

0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.639
<v Speaker 4>called Martin Haskell, one of the Secret Service agents who

0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.879
<v Speaker 4>had interviewed her just hours before. He was an inn.

0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.040
<v Speaker 4>She called Bert Worthington, a contact of hers in the FBI.

0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.840
<v Speaker 4>He was an in either. She called Jack O'shay at

0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:34.720
<v Speaker 4>the SFPD. An operator said that she could take a

0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.600
<v Speaker 4>message for O'Shea, but Sarah Jane hung up without leaving one.

0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:41.520
<v Speaker 4>She may have made other calls as well. We only

0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.120
<v Speaker 4>know for sure of one other call that morning, made

0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:49.280
<v Speaker 4>to the gun dealing hobbyist Mark Fernwood. Sarah Jane called

0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:52.000
<v Speaker 4>Fernwood at nine thirty. She said that she wanted to

0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:54.320
<v Speaker 4>buy a gun for a friend who needed it for protection.

0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.880
<v Speaker 4>Fernwood said that he wanted to see this other goal

0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:01.399
<v Speaker 4>before he sold her a weapon. Sarah Jane told him

0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:03.720
<v Speaker 4>that her friend wasn't available to come out to Danville

0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:08.000
<v Speaker 4>that day, but that she needed the gun. Fernwood was reluctant,

0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:10.520
<v Speaker 4>but everything that he'd seen of Sarah Jane made him

0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:14.320
<v Speaker 4>believe that she was responsible and trustworthy. He agreed to

0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:18.400
<v Speaker 4>sell her a thirty eight for her friend. Sarah Jane

0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:21.159
<v Speaker 4>drove out to Danville. Fern One would later say that

0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.880
<v Speaker 4>she was friendly. He offered her soda and she drank

0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:27.600
<v Speaker 4>it quickly while they made small talk. Eventually, she bought

0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:29.399
<v Speaker 4>the thirty eight with a check for one hundred and

0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:33.119
<v Speaker 4>forty five dollars. As she left, Fernwood mentioned that she

0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:34.840
<v Speaker 4>might want to check the sight on the gun, that

0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.959
<v Speaker 4>it was a little off. She got back in her

0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:41.960
<v Speaker 4>car and drove towards San Francisco. In the days that followed,

0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:44.440
<v Speaker 4>Fernwood would say that the thirty eight was a self

0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:49.359
<v Speaker 4>defense gun, not suitable for an assassination. Sarah Jane would

0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:51.880
<v Speaker 4>later claim that she wanted someone to stop her from

0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:55.159
<v Speaker 4>trying to kill President Ford. She'd made those calls in

0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:58.080
<v Speaker 4>the morning, but no one was there to take them. Now,

0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:01.959
<v Speaker 4>she sped down Highway six eighty from Danville towards San Francisco.

0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:04.919
<v Speaker 4>As she drove, she had the thirty eight in her

0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:08.280
<v Speaker 4>lap and she loaded it with bullets. She hoped police

0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:11.160
<v Speaker 4>would pull her over for speeding, find the gun, and detainer,

0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:15.480
<v Speaker 4>but that didn't happen. She crossed the Bay Bridge into

0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:18.200
<v Speaker 4>San Francisco and made her way to the underground parking

0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:22.360
<v Speaker 4>garage at Union Square and parked. She left the garage

0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:26.480
<v Speaker 4>and walked to the Saint Francis Hotel. Demonstrators and supporters

0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:30.639
<v Speaker 4>stood behind cordons across the street from the hotel. Television

0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:33.960
<v Speaker 4>cameras were on hand. Uniform police were posted at three

0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:38.439
<v Speaker 4>foot intervals along the street. Sarah Jane walked toward the

0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:42.080
<v Speaker 4>hotel's side entrance on Post Street. This was where she

0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:45.880
<v Speaker 4>thought Ford would eventually exit the building. She stepped into

0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:50.359
<v Speaker 4>the crowd, hoping to disappear among the masses. Another person

0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:52.640
<v Speaker 4>in the crowd that day was a Michigan raised ex

0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:56.400
<v Speaker 4>marine named Oliver Sipple. He hadn't come out of any

0:23:56.440 --> 0:24:01.040
<v Speaker 4>political conviction. He was just curious.

0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:03.320
<v Speaker 5>Well all the guys from Michigan, I've never seen him

0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:05.680
<v Speaker 5>the person. I'll stick around and see him. You like

0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:06.880
<v Speaker 5>in series, it looks.

0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:10.359
<v Speaker 4>Like Oliver Sipple. And Sarah Jane and the rest of

0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:13.120
<v Speaker 4>the crowd settled into wait for Ford to emerge from

0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:19.160
<v Speaker 4>his hotel, scheduled for about four that afternoon. Jerry Speeler, she.

0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:20.520
<v Speaker 3>Was forty feet away.

0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:22.320
<v Speaker 9>She was right at the front of the rope and

0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:25.679
<v Speaker 9>forty feet away from him when he walked out. So

0:24:26.359 --> 0:24:28.960
<v Speaker 9>there was a woman from one of the newspapers. Who

0:24:29.040 --> 0:24:32.680
<v Speaker 9>was there, Carol Pogas, who saw Sarah Jane, who remembered

0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:35.080
<v Speaker 9>her from all of the Pean activities and that kind

0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:35.560
<v Speaker 9>of stuff.

0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:41.879
<v Speaker 4>Journalist Carol Pogash.

0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:42.520
<v Speaker 10>My city editor, had sent me up there with the

0:24:42.560 --> 0:24:45.360
<v Speaker 10>idea that, you know, maybe there'll be some nut whatever,

0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:49.640
<v Speaker 10>just keep an eye out. And so I looked around.

0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:52.920
<v Speaker 10>I didn't see anything. I talked to Sarah Jane Moore.

0:24:54.480 --> 0:24:57.280
<v Speaker 4>Carol Pogash later wrote an article for the San Francisco

0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:01.879
<v Speaker 4>Chronicle about seeing Sarah Jane that day. She wrote, we

0:25:01.960 --> 0:25:02.880
<v Speaker 4>made small talk.

0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:06.440
<v Speaker 3>She mentioned something about a trip to Palo Alto, her

0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:10.720
<v Speaker 3>son Fred and my recent marriage. She appeared composed.

0:25:12.680 --> 0:25:15.040
<v Speaker 4>Sarah Jane also told Carol about her visit from the

0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:18.879
<v Speaker 4>Secret Service a previous night. Carol thought Sarah Jane seemed

0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:23.320
<v Speaker 4>excited by the visit. After a brief conversation, Carol left

0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:24.560
<v Speaker 4>Sarah Jane in the crowd.

0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:28.480
<v Speaker 10>I just thought, well, then I'll go back to the

0:25:28.520 --> 0:25:32.640
<v Speaker 10>city room. So I wasn't there when he came out,

0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:36.399
<v Speaker 10>because there was nothing I had to worry about so

0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:39.040
<v Speaker 10>much for my intuition.

0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:44.119
<v Speaker 4>As the weight went on, Sarah Jane became concerned.

0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:48.040
<v Speaker 9>And Sarah Jane was worried that Ford wouldn't come out

0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:49.800
<v Speaker 9>in time because she needed to go pick up her

0:25:49.800 --> 0:25:50.640
<v Speaker 9>son from school.

0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:54.840
<v Speaker 4>The crowd cheered as a man emerged from the hotel,

0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:57.960
<v Speaker 4>but it was a false alarm. It was not the President,

0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:01.800
<v Speaker 4>just a staffer who looked a little like Sarah Jane

0:26:01.840 --> 0:26:03.840
<v Speaker 4>pulled the thirty eight halfway from her purse and then

0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:08.320
<v Speaker 4>pushed it back in. No one saw the gun. Then

0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:09.920
<v Speaker 4>Ford appeared.

0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:14.240
<v Speaker 11>About three thousand people had gathered along the street where

0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:17.320
<v Speaker 11>mister Ford's bullet proved limousine had been parked. The President

0:26:17.359 --> 0:26:19.240
<v Speaker 11>waved to the crowds and they had cheered him, and

0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:20.240
<v Speaker 11>that's when it happened.

0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:23.440
<v Speaker 4>Sarah Jane pulled the gun from her purse and held

0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:26.360
<v Speaker 4>it shoulder high in a two handed cup and saucer position,

0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:30.520
<v Speaker 4>with one hand bracing the gun from below. She knew

0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:33.359
<v Speaker 4>that he was wearing a bulletproof vest, so she shot

0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:34.080
<v Speaker 4>at his face.

0:26:35.240 --> 0:26:44.960
<v Speaker 11>A shot rang out. At first it appeared mister Ford

0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:46.840
<v Speaker 11>had been hit, but he was not injured and had

0:26:46.960 --> 0:26:50.399
<v Speaker 11>just ducked as Secret Service agents hustled him into the limousine.

0:26:50.560 --> 0:26:52.600
<v Speaker 11>The shot had come from across the street, no more

0:26:52.600 --> 0:26:55.639
<v Speaker 11>than forty feet away the bullet. Ricougeted off a taxi

0:26:55.640 --> 0:26:58.720
<v Speaker 11>and struck the driver a glancing blow, but the spent

0:26:58.840 --> 0:27:01.720
<v Speaker 11>slug caused only a min scratch. The cabby recovered it

0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:04.360
<v Speaker 11>and gave it the police.

0:27:04.400 --> 0:27:07.879
<v Speaker 4>Oliver Sipple, the former marine standing next to Sarah Jane,

0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:11.760
<v Speaker 4>acted quickly preventing Sarah Jane from getting off a second shot.

0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:15.840
<v Speaker 5>For some strange reason, I looked down and I had

0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:20.280
<v Speaker 5>seen Sarah Jane Margot enterprise and pull me. I yelled,

0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:23.000
<v Speaker 5>the bitch has got a gun before I made the

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:28.200
<v Speaker 5>lunch for as the trigger was going on, I grabbed

0:27:28.280 --> 0:27:31.840
<v Speaker 5>in about ten agents and twenty police for on us all.

0:27:31.920 --> 0:27:35.520
<v Speaker 8>I just like that, always felt that I would only

0:27:35.560 --> 0:27:37.639
<v Speaker 8>have a chance at one shot. I had practiced with

0:27:37.720 --> 0:27:42.840
<v Speaker 8>only one shot. I actually had time even before simple

0:27:43.280 --> 0:27:45.920
<v Speaker 8>I hit my arm or shoulder or whatever does he hit,

0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:49.520
<v Speaker 8>I actually had time to get off a second shot.

0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:53.159
<v Speaker 8>I was stunned that I missed, Absolutely stunned. It was

0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:56.560
<v Speaker 8>even it was a freaky thing because it was it

0:27:56.640 --> 0:27:59.399
<v Speaker 8>was like target practice. The man came out, looked straight

0:27:59.400 --> 0:28:03.359
<v Speaker 8>at us. I have I could not have asked, you know,

0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:04.359
<v Speaker 8>for a better shock.

0:28:06.040 --> 0:28:08.960
<v Speaker 9>She didn't test it. It was supposed to be target practice,

0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:13.840
<v Speaker 9>but Ford, when I interviewed him, wanted to be able

0:28:13.880 --> 0:28:17.760
<v Speaker 9>to walk amongst the people. He wanted to be there

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:21.520
<v Speaker 9>for his constituents, and so there was a little more

0:28:21.560 --> 0:28:25.200
<v Speaker 9>security when at the Saint Francis Hotel, but he still

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:26.520
<v Speaker 9>wanted to be with people.

0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:31.680
<v Speaker 4>Sarah Jane was carried by police and Secret Service agents

0:28:31.720 --> 0:28:34.480
<v Speaker 4>into the Saint Francis Hotel and up to the mezzanine,

0:28:34.480 --> 0:28:38.680
<v Speaker 4>where she was questioned in the Borgia room. According to

0:28:38.680 --> 0:28:42.520
<v Speaker 4>an affidavit, Sarah Jane confessed a Secret Service agent, Gary Yoager,

0:28:42.720 --> 0:28:45.760
<v Speaker 4>who had questioned her earlier that morning, that she had

0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:50.000
<v Speaker 4>fired the shot at President Ford. She was arraigned later

0:28:50.040 --> 0:28:52.480
<v Speaker 4>that night on a charge of attempting to assassinate the

0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:55.760
<v Speaker 4>president of the United States. She was assigned a federal

0:28:55.800 --> 0:28:59.480
<v Speaker 4>public defender named James Hewitt. Bail was set at half

0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:04.040
<v Speaker 4>a million. Bar Ford, meanwhile, had already left the state.

0:29:05.920 --> 0:29:08.640
<v Speaker 11>He was not injured this afternoon, but someone did take

0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:11.000
<v Speaker 11>a shot at him as he emerged from the Saint

0:29:11.040 --> 0:29:15.360
<v Speaker 11>Francis Hotel in downtown San Francisco. Mister Ford was hustled

0:29:15.400 --> 0:29:18.280
<v Speaker 11>into his limousine and taken directly to the airport. The

0:29:18.320 --> 0:29:20.880
<v Speaker 11>plane took off about a half hour or so ago

0:29:21.040 --> 0:29:23.920
<v Speaker 11>from San Francisco and is now en route back to Washington.

0:29:25.640 --> 0:29:28.760
<v Speaker 4>Alan Hume, who had refused Sarah Jane's call that morning,

0:29:29.120 --> 0:29:30.760
<v Speaker 4>had no idea what had happened.

0:29:31.720 --> 0:29:34.320
<v Speaker 6>So when I got up later and went into the office,

0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:38.920
<v Speaker 6>I arrived in the downtown office of the La Times,

0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:43.000
<v Speaker 6>Huge City Room, and all the editors were waiting at

0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:46.920
<v Speaker 6>my desk, and they handed me a picture from the

0:29:46.960 --> 0:29:51.280
<v Speaker 6>wire service. Is this your source, they said, And it

0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:54.040
<v Speaker 6>was Sally. It was Sarah Jane Moore. She had just

0:29:54.160 --> 0:29:56.400
<v Speaker 6>tried to shoot the President of the United States, and

0:29:56.480 --> 0:30:00.720
<v Speaker 6>she'd almost succeeded. So of course, I'm I mean complete,

0:30:00.760 --> 0:30:04.240
<v Speaker 6>literally in shock. I go through the motions of saying yes,

0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:08.400
<v Speaker 6>I took the sidebar that I had already prepared, saying

0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:12.440
<v Speaker 6>she was no madahurry because for one thing, she talked

0:30:12.440 --> 0:30:17.360
<v Speaker 6>too much. I had all this colorful sidebar ready, and

0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:19.160
<v Speaker 6>so what we did was we put a new lead

0:30:19.240 --> 0:30:21.560
<v Speaker 6>on it, a new top. It said, the woman who

0:30:21.680 --> 0:30:24.760
<v Speaker 6>just tried to kill President Ford was blah. And then

0:30:24.960 --> 0:30:27.880
<v Speaker 6>my whole sidebar ran. It turned out later some of

0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:30.479
<v Speaker 6>those details she had lied to me about so it

0:30:30.520 --> 0:30:35.520
<v Speaker 6>hadn't been fact checked. And then I was devastated because

0:30:35.640 --> 0:30:39.120
<v Speaker 6>I hadn't taken the call, and I figured I was

0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:43.120
<v Speaker 6>complicit in her near assassination of the presidency. If I

0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:45.920
<v Speaker 6>had taken the call, I probably could have talked her

0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:47.680
<v Speaker 6>out of it, I thought at the time, I thought,

0:30:47.720 --> 0:30:49.800
<v Speaker 6>oh my god. Turned out she called a lot of

0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:52.360
<v Speaker 6>people that morning. I wasn't the only one, but I

0:30:52.400 --> 0:30:54.520
<v Speaker 6>didn't know that, and I thought, oh boy. So I

0:30:54.560 --> 0:30:57.000
<v Speaker 6>went home and you know, after I did my story

0:30:57.040 --> 0:30:59.840
<v Speaker 6>and I crawled home and just I hadn't had any sleep.

0:31:00.000 --> 0:31:02.200
<v Speaker 6>It was just a wreck. So I'm having dinner that

0:31:02.280 --> 0:31:06.000
<v Speaker 6>night with my husband and the phone rings and it's

0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:10.640
<v Speaker 6>Sally's public defender, the lawyer they've assigned her. She's in jail,

0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:15.959
<v Speaker 6>and he says she won't cooperate with me, the lawyer

0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:20.360
<v Speaker 6>who's both the defender, until she talks to you. Can

0:31:20.400 --> 0:31:22.959
<v Speaker 6>you come up here? Because there was no way to

0:31:22.960 --> 0:31:25.960
<v Speaker 6>get her on the legally to get her on the phone,

0:31:26.200 --> 0:31:28.520
<v Speaker 6>so I called the last plane to San Francisco, a

0:31:28.600 --> 0:31:33.800
<v Speaker 6>nine pm shuttle, and checked into the Cliff Hotel. And

0:31:33.840 --> 0:31:36.680
<v Speaker 6>when I got to the Cliff Hotel, I called the

0:31:36.760 --> 0:31:39.440
<v Speaker 6>lawyer and said I'm here, he said, good, come to

0:31:39.480 --> 0:31:41.440
<v Speaker 6>the arraignment tomorrow and we'll take it from there.

0:31:43.520 --> 0:31:47.240
<v Speaker 4>Sarah Jane had taken her shot and missed, but the

0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:51.640
<v Speaker 4>question remained why the answer would need to go beyond

0:31:51.840 --> 0:31:54.280
<v Speaker 4>just the events of that day to the larger question

0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:58.640
<v Speaker 4>of how she became radicalized to that degree. It was

0:31:58.640 --> 0:32:00.680
<v Speaker 4>a question that could be asked about net From and

0:32:00.720 --> 0:32:05.160
<v Speaker 4>Patty Hurst too. Simply put, what had happened to change

0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:10.719
<v Speaker 4>them so dramatically and so rapidly next time on the

0:32:10.760 --> 0:32:13.840
<v Speaker 4>final episode of this season of Rip Current.

0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Rip Current was created and written by Toby Ball and

0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:38.440
<v Speaker 1>developed with Alexander Williams. Hosted by Toby Ball with Mary

0:32:38.520 --> 0:32:42.680
<v Speaker 1>Catherine Garrison. Original music by Jeff Sanoff, Show art by

0:32:42.760 --> 0:32:46.880
<v Speaker 1>jeffany As Goda and Charles Rudder. Producers Jesse funk, Rema

0:32:47.000 --> 0:32:52.440
<v Speaker 1>O'Kelly and Noams Griffin. Supervising producer Trelie Young. Executive producers

0:32:52.520 --> 0:32:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Alexander Williams and Matt Frederick.

0:32:55.280 --> 0:32:55.440
<v Speaker 5>Hear.

0:32:55.520 --> 0:32:58.880
<v Speaker 1>Episodes of Rip Current early completely add free and receive

0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:02.840
<v Speaker 1>exclusive bonus con by subscribing to iHeart True Crime Plus

0:33:03.200 --> 0:33:07.920
<v Speaker 1>only on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

0:33:07.960 --> 0:33:11.640
<v Speaker 1>the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to

0:33:11.680 --> 0:33:16.280
<v Speaker 1>your favorite shows, and to visit our website, ripcurrentpod dot

0:33:16.320 --> 0:33:25.240
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