1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kurig, and welcome to Next Question. Today, 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: on a special bonus episode, we begin to consider what 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: life after coronavirus might look like. The pandemic will no 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: doubt have an enormous impact on the way we work, learn, travel, 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: or even just interact with each other. But before we 6 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: can even get to that, we have to answer my 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: next question, when and how can we return to normal? 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: And what will normal even look like. This is going 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: to be a long struggle until we have a vaccine. 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: The virus is likely to be with us and is 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: likely to change the way we have to go about 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: our lives, even when we begin to come back out again. 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: Dr Tom Frieden is the former director of the U 14 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: S Centers for Disease Control and Prevention a k a. 15 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: The c d C, and before that was New York 16 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: City's Public Health Commissioner. He's now the president and CEO 17 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: of Resolved to Say Lives. He's called this pandemic world 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: War C with the humans against the coronavirus, and while 19 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: it's daunting to think we're still at the start of 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: this war, Dr fried is thinking about the future we 21 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: all long for, and he's just released a four point 22 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: plan that will help the country get up and running 23 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: as soon and safely as possible. You have stressed that 24 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: reopening is not about the date, it's about the data. 25 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: With that in mind, explain for us what you think 26 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: the data needs to reveal in order to ensure a 27 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: safer returned to life as we once knew it, or 28 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: somewhat as we once knew it. To get out to 29 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: the new normal, we need to look at three things. 30 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: The first is how widely the virus is spreading and 31 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: whether it's decreasing. You don't want to go out when 32 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: it's about to explode again, and you don't want to 33 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: go out when there's so many cases that they might 34 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: overwhelm health or public health systems. The second is how 35 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: prepared our health care systems are so we can prevent 36 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:11,119 Speaker 1: healthcare workers from becoming affected and also provide good care 37 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: to people with coronavirus and continuing continuing to provide care 38 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: to people who need chronic care, whether it's cancer screening 39 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: or diabetes care. What we're seeing is people foregoing very 40 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: important services, So that has to be ready, and our 41 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: public health system has to be ready to do what 42 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: I call box it in testing isolation, contact casing, and 43 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: quarantine four corners of a box. If we get that right, 44 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: we can limit the spread of coronavirus from cases and 45 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: clusters so it doesn't explode again and force us to 46 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 1: come back in. You're such a well respected public health official. 47 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: I do think that a lot of people listening may 48 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: think the numbers, the estimates were we're too high, that 49 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: the number of cases didn't match what people and scientists 50 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: were predicting. Why can you help people understand why that 51 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: was the case, and is it because of the measures 52 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: that were taken. We're learning more about coronavirus literally every day, 53 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: but it would be a big and potentially fatal mistake 54 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: not to take this virus very seriously. Just look at 55 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: what has happened in New York City, where there have 56 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: been seventeen thousand confirmed or probable cases and twenty one 57 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: excess deaths in less than six weeks. That compares with 58 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: thirty thousand deaths in New York City in two years 59 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: of the influenza pandemic. This is the worst health threat 60 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: of our lifetime, and it is very, very dangerous, particularly 61 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: for people over the age of sixty and for anyone 62 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: with underlying health conditions, but also just a variety of 63 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: people in their thirties and forties and get very very ill. 64 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: So this is an enormously deadly pandemic and unfortunately bad 65 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: as it has been, this is just the beginning. The 66 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: virus will be here until we have a vaccine. What 67 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: about until there's a better treatment. The treatment would make 68 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: a really big difference. If we had good treatment for 69 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: this vaccine, and including good preventive treatment, and that could 70 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: come well before a vaccine, that would make a big difference. 71 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: That could decrease death rates, decrease overcrowd against care units, 72 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: help people be safer. So yes, the treatment would be terrific, 73 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: but we don't have one yet. And and do you 74 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: see I know there's been a lot of global cooperation 75 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: among scientists and researchers. Do you see anything that gives 76 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: you optimism about a potential treatment that may pre come 77 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: before a vaccine? So far, nothing is working out and 78 00:04:57,839 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: a few of the things that have looked at have 79 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: not proven to be effective. I am encouraged that there's 80 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: really good global collaboration that the World Health Organization is 81 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: helping to link together scientists from all over the world. Interestingly, 82 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: paywalls have come down on scientific publications, and preprints have 83 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: gone up. These are two big changes in how medical 84 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: science works. So we're learning more really fast, and I'm 85 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: encouraged that if we do identify a good treatment, will 86 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: find out about that quickly and I hope then be 87 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: able to apply it widely. But we don't have it now, 88 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,679 Speaker 1: and what we need to do now is to stay 89 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: home so that the virus doesn't explode again. That's our 90 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: most blunt weapon against it, and box it in. That's 91 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: our most precise weapon against it. That's how we can 92 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: prevent an outbreak. From becoming an academic, I want to 93 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: talk more about how to restart the economy and some 94 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: of the things that you have in mind, But first 95 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: I'm curious Dr. Freedom. Have you been able to or 96 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: have scientists been able to get a better understanding of 97 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: some of the mystery surrounding COVID nineteen. The fact that 98 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: some people are affected so intensely and are incapacitated and 99 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: often killed by this virus, and others can be completely asymptomatic. 100 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: It's got to be more than just underlying conditions or 101 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: or someone's age. What are some of the things that 102 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: we're learning about how this virus operates. We're literally more 103 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: every day, but there's still a lot we don't know. 104 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: We do know that age is the strongest predictor of 105 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: how bad this infection will be, and kids under the 106 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: age of twenty rarely get seriously ill from it. On 107 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,119 Speaker 1: the other hand, people over sixty often do. It's often 108 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: fatal for them. We don't know which underlying health conditions 109 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: are riskiest. Diabetes, kidney disease, lung disease, heart disease seeming 110 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: the most concerning, but that's something will learn more about. 111 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: We don't know whether some people have more severe disease 112 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: because they were exposed to a bigger amount of virus 113 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: what's called the innoculum. And one thing that I'm very 114 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: intrigued by, although there's no proof of this, is that 115 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: there may be very subtle genetic differences in different strains 116 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: of this virus that may be associated with higher or 117 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: lower severity of illness. That's just a theory at this point, 118 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: there's no evidence to support it, but it's something that 119 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: would be a clue as to how we might make 120 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: a vaccine that might immunize people without making them sick. 121 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: Can you help me understand that better. When you say 122 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: a different, a more powerful strain, explain what you made 123 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: by by that. For people who aren't scientists or doctors 124 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: listening to this, well, the first thing to say is, 125 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: we have no idea. We don't know why some people 126 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: get sicker than others. It could be they're exposed to 127 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: a higher dose or a noculum of the virus, but 128 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: we know that if they have underlying conditions that could 129 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: make it worse. And there is a possibility that there 130 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: are certain types of this virus. It's all Sarah's cove too, 131 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: it's all one particular species of coronavirus, but there are 132 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: already a lot of genetic differences within that species. And 133 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: one theory that some of us are beginning to wonder 134 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: about now with no evidence, just something that should be investigated, 135 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: is whether some of the strains that are circulating are 136 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: less deadly than others, and might account for the fact 137 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: that you're seeing a very high proportion of people with 138 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: no symptoms at all in some outbreaks and a very 139 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: low proportion with no symptoms at all in others. The 140 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: New York Times, in fact, had a front page piece 141 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,719 Speaker 1: about a seemingly healthy guy who was on a ventilator, 142 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: I believe, for thirty two days and came out the 143 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: other side pretty miraculously. But he seemed to be very 144 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: atypical for someone who would be made so seriously from 145 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: this virus. No one should be overconfident about this virus. 146 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: Thirty year old doctors, nurses, and others with no underlying 147 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: conditions have become desperately ill, and some have died from it. Unfortunately, 148 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: no one is immune from this virus. Maybe people who 149 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: have been recovered from it, maybe, but barring that, there 150 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: is no natural immunity. And that's why we're so concerned. 151 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: Not only have there been more than seventeen thousand COVID 152 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: deaths in New York City so far, it could get 153 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: two or three times worse, and other parts of the US, 154 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: other parts of the world haven't gone through that yet, 155 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: so they're at risk of explosive outbreaks. When we come back, 156 00:09:54,040 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: Dr Tom Threeden on our COVID testing fiasco, We're back 157 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: with Dr Tom Frieden, former director of the CDC. Testing 158 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: is such an important factor, Dr Frieden, But gosh, that 159 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: seems to have been a massive ship show. Excuse my French. 160 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: In terms of getting the testing up and running. What 161 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: the heck happened here? We still have far too few 162 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: tests compared to what we need. The CDC stumbled early 163 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: on there was a problem with their test kit. Their 164 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: test kit has worked fine for two months and we 165 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: still have a major shortage. That's because it's really a 166 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: three leggedge to it. You need the CDC providing tests, 167 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: to public health laboratories, hospitals developing their own tests, and 168 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: the commercial laboratories figuring out how they provide very large 169 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: volumes of tests. And this has been increasing, but too slowly. 170 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: And that's why we've just released guidance on who should 171 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: be tested, because right now we don't have enough tests 172 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: for everyone, and therefore we really need to scale up 173 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: testing for those who need it most, including people whose 174 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: lives may be saved by being tested, or people who 175 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: when we know they're infected, we can isolate them and 176 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: prevent a large and deadly outbreak of the disease. So 177 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 1: when you say are you talking about elderly people and 178 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: those with the underlying conditions, I mean who is in 179 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: this subset of people who should be tested right now? 180 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,719 Speaker 1: Most important are people with symptoms who are being hospitalized 181 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: for our overage sixty or who have underlying health conditions. 182 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: Next most important is anyone in a congregte facility who 183 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 1: has symptoms. That's a nursing home or a homeless shelter, 184 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: or a prison or a jail. Next is health care 185 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: workers who of symptoms so we can make health facility 186 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 1: is safer. And anyone who's a contact of a case 187 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: who is symptomatic, plus all people hospitalized where COVID is 188 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: spreading to prevent hospital outbreaks of COVID, it's really important 189 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: that these individuals get tested because that can greatly reduce 190 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: the spread of the infection. And when there is an 191 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: outbreak in a conic facility, then it's important, uh then 192 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: that all they are get tested, whether or not they 193 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: have symptoms. But just to test those groups is over 194 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: a million tests a day and we're doing at most 195 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: a quarter of that now I know about a hundred 196 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand tests a day, so less than a 197 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: quarter of that certainly. And when are we going to 198 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: be able to have enough tests available? What about that much? 199 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: Bally hood Abbott laboratories fast tests that you could get 200 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: the results in you know, five to eighteen minutes what 201 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: happened with that. There are tests that are um point 202 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: of care and they're available right where the patient is, 203 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: like the Abbot test, but they're low volume. They take 204 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: less than fifteen minutes, but you only do one at 205 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: a time, so you can only do four patients per 206 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: hour on one instrument. In contrast, some of the large 207 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: tests may take a day to come back, but you 208 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: can do thousands of hours. When we have the tests 209 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: that we need at what you say, a million a day. 210 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: We'll really have to rely on the federal government for 211 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: getting this right. They have to coordinate it. They have 212 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,119 Speaker 1: to make sure the entire supply chain is there, from 213 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: swabs to transport media, to re agents to test kits, 214 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: to machines for testing, to providing the test results. Remember, 215 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: testing is just the first step. Testing is really important, 216 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: but it's not the answer. It's a part of the answer. 217 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: It's about testing, isolating people who are positive, tracing contacts, 218 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: and quarantining the contacts. I can do those four things. 219 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: You can keep the virus in the box so we 220 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: can go out. Let's talk about contact tracing. Tell us 221 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: about that. What do you mean by contact tracing? Because 222 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: I understand you call it an old fashioned shoe leather 223 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: effort of sending human beings out to ask people who 224 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: they've been in contact with. But that could require an 225 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: army of something like three thousand people. So how do 226 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: you organize an effort like that? Contact tracing is hard work, 227 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: but it works. It's traditional public health work. In fact, 228 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: every day, all year round, health departments all over this 229 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: country and all over the world are doing it for tuberculosis, 230 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: for measles, or sexually transmitted diseases HIV and other conditions. 231 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: But we have to do it on a much wider 232 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: scale now it's specialized work. Contact tracers need to be 233 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: able to develop a human bond with patients. They need 234 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: to be able to answer their question is medical, social, emotional. 235 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: They need to be able to link them to services, 236 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: whether it's medical services if they're sick, or social services 237 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: if they have needs, or community supports. That contact tracing 238 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: process supports patients and those they may have exposed so 239 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: that the virus can stop with them, so that they 240 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: can isolate themselves in the case of patients, or quarantine 241 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: themselves in the pace of case of contact, and if 242 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: they do develop the illness, they don't spread it to others. 243 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: That does take time, It takes effort. If we look 244 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: around the world, Singapore, with the population of five point 245 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: six million people, has more than a thousand people doing 246 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: contact tracing. That gives you a sense of the scale 247 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: of the effort that will be needed. Tens or maybe 248 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people will be needed, and that 249 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: sounds impossible, but it's essential if we're to come out 250 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: as soon and safely as possible. And that gets sent 251 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: running back home again because we see an explosion of cases. Well, 252 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that. When you 253 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: see the governor of Georgia starting to open up things 254 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: like bowling alleys and barber shops and nail salmons, what 255 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: what do you think? I think, first off, if you 256 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: look at the stay at home orders around the country 257 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: and the data that's come out since from groups like 258 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: Facebook and Google that have analyzed what population movements were 259 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: people stay at home before the rectory statement they heard 260 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: what was happening, I think you'll see some some people 261 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: certainly coming right out and other people waiting. We do 262 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: have to get ready for the COVID world, for the 263 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: new normal where we're going to use hand sanitizers before 264 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: we go into a building, we're going to say six 265 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: ft away from people to the greatest extent possible, where 266 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: we're going to have masks on to protect others as 267 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: well as ourselves. Whenever COVID has spread in an environment, 268 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: certain things are certainly beyond reasonable. You would not want 269 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: to open movie theaters at this time. That does not 270 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: make sense. While you've still got a lot of cases. 271 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: You really try to avoid gatherings of ten people or more. 272 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: You try to keep people together in one group so 273 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,719 Speaker 1: that there is so that if there is spread of COVID, 274 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: it stops there and doesn't explode in society. Remember, if 275 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: the virus spreads widely, it's not just the people who 276 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: volunteered or hum of their own accord we're in public 277 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: that are affected. It's the health workers who they could 278 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: infect and could die. It's the grandmothers and grandfathers, and 279 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: brothers and sisters and children of those they in fact 280 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: who could get very sick. So we have to be 281 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: careful and do this in phasis understanding that when we 282 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: loosen the faucet and come out again, it maybe three 283 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: to six weeks before we see a surge in cases, 284 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: because it takes about a week from exposure to infection, 285 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: about another week to get very severely ill. So it'll 286 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: be weeks before we see the impact of these and 287 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: we don't know whether whether we'll be on our side 288 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: or not, and whether warm or weather will be helpful. 289 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: We hope it will be, but the plain truth is 290 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: COVID is here to stay unless something surprising happens or 291 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: we get a vaccine, and that means we have to 292 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: get used to a new normal where we're going to 293 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,479 Speaker 1: have to be more careful for our own sake and 294 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: especially for the sake of those most vulnerable in our communities. 295 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: Once you get the virus, does that make you immune? 296 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: That's still a big question Mark two, isn't it Tom? 297 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: We don't know. There's more information coming out every day, 298 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: and it may be a few weeks or a few 299 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: months before we know. First off, there are antibody tests, 300 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: A lot of questions about those. A lot of the 301 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: tests that are on the market don't work well, so 302 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: the results are not reliable. Even if you have a 303 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: good antibody test, knowing what it means is not clear, 304 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're immune. Even if it does, how long 305 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: will that immunity last there's so much we don't yet 306 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: know about this virus. But the more we learn, the 307 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: more we can do to protect people. What I keep 308 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: thinking about, which I know I shouldn't, because this is 309 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: seeing the glass is half empty, is even if there's 310 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: a vaccine for COVID nineteen, how concerned are you that 311 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: another virus, even after a vaccine is developed maybe around 312 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: the corner. Dr Freeden Katie, It is absolutely inevitable that 313 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: there will be another health threat. Whether it will be 314 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: as bad as COVID nineteen or worse, we don't know. 315 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: What's not inevitable is that we will be so woefully 316 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: underprepared next time. And we can avoid being underprepared by 317 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: investing in public health in this country and around the world. 318 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: That means establishing systems to find, stop and prevent health 319 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: threat where they emerge so they don't spread around the world. 320 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: That means ending the practice of selling exotic animals for 321 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: food and markets. That means ending the practice of bush 322 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: meat consumption in Africa where viruses can emerge. That means 323 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: strengthening our early warning system so we know where diseases 324 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: are spreading and can rapidly investigate them and stop them. 325 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: If at all possible. All of this is within reach, 326 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,959 Speaker 1: and with the trillions of dollars that we're losing because 327 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: of COVID, it's clear that it would be the height 328 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: of irresponsibility not to invest in our public house protection 329 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: system in this country and around the world. Well, we 330 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: come back, how to emerge into the new COVID world. 331 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: Let's return to my interview with Dr Tom Frieden. It 332 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: seems to me that we're going to need a nine 333 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: eleven Commission type evaluation about not only this country's response, 334 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: but the global response. Knowing that you don't want to 335 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: get too far into politics, you're the former director of 336 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: the CDC, So how would you assess the government's handling 337 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: of this crisis, both the administration and other agencies, including 338 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: the CDC. Let's start with CDC. CC clearly had a 339 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: problem with the laboratory tests and with responding to that problem. 340 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: I would like to see an independent investigation of that. 341 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: I have no confidence in investigations that are done by 342 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: others who might benefit from selling there was one problem 343 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: or another. There's an excellent laboratory science unit at CC. 344 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: I would want to see them do an internal report 345 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: and then have an external highly expert group through the 346 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: National Academy of Sciences look at that and provide transparently 347 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: what went wrong and how to prevent that from going 348 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: around in the future. That doesn't change the fact that 349 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: the CDC is a fantastic institution with twenty public health 350 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: professionals who devote their lives to protecting people from health 351 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: threats and who are our elite troops in this war 352 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: against coronavirus. They are working day and night. They are 353 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: doing an enormous amount to strengthen states and cities around 354 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: the country. Their website, CDC dot gov remains the best 355 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,479 Speaker 1: place to go for information, advice, and guidance on how 356 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: to protect ourselves, our workplaces, and our communities. In terms 357 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: of the US response, more generally, can I can I 358 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: interrupt for two seconds? So well? I agree with you. 359 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: I've done work with the CDC. I have so much 360 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: respect for the people there. But something did go terribly 361 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: wrong in this instance. What do you think happened? I 362 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: don't know. I there. The CDC laboratory itself was able 363 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: to do testing throughout this process and never got overwhelmed. 364 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: The problem came in sending out tests that didn't work 365 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: well and then the bigger problem was not responding to 366 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: that problem rapidly. I don't know why that happened, but 367 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: that's one of the things that should be looked at. 368 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: Tom the current the current CDC director, Robert Redfield, he's 369 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: defended the agency and said, quote, it was really the 370 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: responsibility of the private sector and the clinical medicine apparatus 371 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: to develop widespread testing. That's correct, He's absolutely right. It's 372 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: a three legged school. You've got CDC providing tests for 373 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: the public health departments, You've got hospitals developing their own tests, 374 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: and you've got the commercial sector developing the tests for 375 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: large numbers of patients. And you can know for certain 376 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: that it's correct because the CDC test has worked fine 377 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: for two months and we still have a major shorts 378 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: of tests because those other two legs got started very late. 379 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: CDC said on January we have to behave as if 380 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: this is a pandemic. But it wasn't until more than 381 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: a month later that the Food and Drug Administration loosened 382 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: regulations to allow the private sector to begin developing their 383 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: own tests. And it wasn't until early March. And whose 384 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: fault was that? I think you've got to look at 385 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: HHS and FDA for that, and what about the administration 386 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: and the task force that was well in place before that. 387 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: I find the organization of this response by the administration 388 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: very confusing. I don't know what the role of FEMA 389 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: versus the task Force versus the Vice President versus the 390 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: White House Coronavirus Coordinator versus the Chairman of the task 391 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: Force is. In our work at Resolve to Save Lives, 392 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: we advise countries fall around the world how to respond 393 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: to an epidemic, and one of the main ways of 394 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: doing that is to organize so that there is a 395 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: single incident manager and a single trusted, not partisan spokesperson, 396 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: and that those people report to the head of state, 397 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: and that the policy decisions are made by the head 398 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: of state. But the operational response has a clear line 399 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: of accountability and a clear nonpartisan communication. I wish we 400 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: would see that in this country. Well, it's been anything 401 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: but that. As many people have complained about the nature 402 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: of these briefings, the role of the CDC has been minimized, 403 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: if not completely, uh you know, erased from the whole process. 404 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 1: Dr Fauci and Deborah Burkes don't seem to have much 405 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: of a voice. Do you think it's been dangerous that 406 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: the President of the United States, who is certainly not 407 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: a scientist, is the one that is talking and communicating 408 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: with the American people and even making crazy suggestions, even 409 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: in sarcasm, uh to, about injecting disinfectants. I'll feel safer 410 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: when we're hearing from this DC regularly, people like not 411 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: just Dr Redfield, but also Dr shook It, who was 412 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: the prior director of the National Center for Immunization and 413 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: Respiratory Disease, Dr Masign, other experts and viral public the 414 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: public health response to viral lung diseases. These are our 415 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: top experts, not just in the country but in the world, 416 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: and we're not hearing from them. Don't you think that's crazy. 417 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: I'll feel safer when we're hearing from them. You're being 418 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: very diplomatic here, Tom. So let's just before you go, 419 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: let's talk about the future. You say COVID nineteen is 420 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: here to stay. So when you think about the future, 421 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: do you think do you agree that social distancing will 422 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,719 Speaker 1: continue for months to come? What about this idea of 423 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: immunity passports that will allow those who have been affected 424 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: returning to the workforce, Um you know, tell me what 425 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 1: you envisioned for the future. If a VACS scene is 426 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: not created anytime soon, and there's no treatment anytime soon, 427 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: we'll be going back to a new normal. That normal 428 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: will include hand sanitizers at the entrance of every building, 429 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: mask wearing in public, physical distancing wherever possible. We don't 430 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: yet have the science to know if community passports will work. 431 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: There are some countries that have started that we'll need 432 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: to learn more, but it's inevitable that until there's a 433 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,719 Speaker 1: vaccine or an effective treatment, you're going to see travel bands. 434 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: You're going to see quarantine of travelers. We're even seeing 435 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: countries like Canada and Australia block people from going from 436 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: one state or province to another. If one state has 437 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: controlled it and another state hasn't, it's almost inevitable they're 438 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: going to try to keep people out who are going 439 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: to bring this in and create another explosion of cases. 440 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: Have you seen anything positive on Horizon Tom in terms 441 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: of a vaccine or something that at least is showing promise. 442 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: The most promising thing I've seen, Katie, is real global collaboration, 443 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: that people are working together, that we understand that it's 444 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: us against them here and them as a microbe, us 445 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: as all humans. And the more we can learn from 446 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 1: each other, the more we can partner with each other, 447 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: the more of us are going to get through this 448 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: safe and health. Do you see somebody who could be 449 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: or an organization that could be the head of a 450 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: global response if this happens again, so that people all 451 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: over the world have really the most up to date 452 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: scientific information, that the messages aren't contradicting each other, that 453 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,959 Speaker 1: people aren't kind of competing for resources, so that everyone 454 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: can be operating from on the same page. The World 455 00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: Health Organization is essential. We helped create it, were a 456 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: member of it. It has strengths and weaknesses. It's done 457 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: relatively well in this outbreak, but clearly there are things 458 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: that need done better, and how that should be done 459 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: is something for a discussion in the coming months. We 460 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: know that we need a better way to track where 461 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: outbreaks are emerging and a better way to help countries 462 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: drive down the risk of outbreaks like this and stop 463 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: them as soon as possible. And what did you think 464 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: of the President saying he's going to defund the World 465 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: Health Organization? Since the US is the bigger funder, it's 466 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: something like four million dollars annually. This is the time 467 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: to increase, not to decrease, our funding for public health. 468 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: Dr Tom Freed, and thank you so much for your time. 469 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: Really really appreciate it. Thank you, and thank you for 470 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: your interest, knowledge and commitment to health and public health. 471 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: It's always a pleasure speaking with you. Okay, right back 472 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: at you, Thanks Tom, Thanks so. Dr Tom Frieden a 473 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: public health expert, former head of the CDC and now 474 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:16,959 Speaker 1: President and CEO of Resolve to Save Lives. And that 475 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: does it for this bonus episode of Next Question. For 476 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: the most up to date information on the coronavirus, as 477 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: Tom Friedman said, go to the CDC and World Health 478 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: Organization websites and for a look at the people behind 479 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: the pandemic, from the victims to the heroes and the 480 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: moments of good news in between. Subscribe to my morning 481 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: newsletter Wake Up Call by going to Katie correct dot com. 482 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: Our regular episodes of Next Question with Me Katie Currekt 483 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: are released weekly every Thursday. You can find those and 484 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: subscribe on Apple Podcast, the I Heart Radio Act or 485 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. So until next 486 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: time and my Next Question, I'm Katie Currect thanks so 487 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: much for listening. Next Question with Katie Couric is a 488 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio and Katie Curic Media. The 489 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: executive producers are Katie Currik, Courtney Litz, and Tyler Klang. 490 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Our show producer is 491 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: Bethan Macaluso. The associate producers are Emily Pinto and Derek Clements. 492 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: Editing by Derrek Clements, Dylan Fagan and Lowell Berlante, Mixing 493 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: by Dylan Fagan. Our researcher is Gabriel Loser. For more 494 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: information on today's episode, go to Katie Kurik dot com 495 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: and follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Katie Kurik. 496 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I 497 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 498 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.