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Speaker 1: flowers dot com. Slash tune in Soup with Coop is

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Speaker 1: brought to you by fan Duel. It's never been easier

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Speaker 1: to play fantasy on FanDuel. Whether you love basketball, golf, soccer,

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Speaker 1: or any other fantasy sport. There's a contest for every

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Speaker 1: fan FanDuel more ways to win. My next guest on

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Speaker 1: sup with Coup is a four year starter at Duke,

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Speaker 1: is a two time national championship coach. Is a lawyer,

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Speaker 1: a broadcaster, a journalist, a twitter and a lover of soup.

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Speaker 1: We'll find out I he's a lover of Coop. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show, Jay Billis Cooper. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: It's honor, that's an honor to eat soup with you.

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Speaker 1: Are you a big I mean, do you love soup?

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Speaker 1: I mean that's the world on the street. But you

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Speaker 1: are you an avid soup eater. I like soup as

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Speaker 1: long as it's a heavy soup. I don't like light

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Speaker 1: soups or cold soups. I like hot soup. And it

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Speaker 1: has to be a heavy, substantial soup. And today what

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Speaker 1: are we having. We're having a New England clam chowder

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Speaker 1: today and yours looks insubstantial. By the way, today we're

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Speaker 1: not off to a good start. In the fact, you're

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Speaker 1: already accusing me of not having New England clam chowder.

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Speaker 1: But you must be an expert, because I was struggling

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Speaker 1: this morning and I'm stuck with a mediocre bowl of

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Speaker 1: chicken and wild rice. So I apologize not delivering, you know,

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Speaker 1: answering the bell. I'm a fraud. Yeah, it's a difficult

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Speaker 1: to get up in the morning and find good New

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Speaker 1: England clam chowder. That's why I did mind it advance.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever stray and go completely off the wall

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Speaker 1: and have a little Manhattan clam chowder? Have you ever

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Speaker 1: done something? No? No, I'm not a big vegetable eater,

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Speaker 1: so Manhattan clam chowder has too many stray vegetables in it,

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Speaker 1: and it's too close to like minnestroni or something like

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Speaker 1: that I like. I do tend to go to. I'm

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Speaker 1: not a creamy food person, but I like lobster bisk

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Speaker 1: i like. I like creamy soups for some reason. I

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Speaker 1: like tomato basil soup when it's creamier and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: So I'm destined to be a fat old man because

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Speaker 1: of it. I was doing some research on New England

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Speaker 1: clam chatter, and I'm sure this is what influenced you,

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Speaker 1: but it really it was popular that popular in the

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Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds, but really got popular when it was featured

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Speaker 1: in Herman Melville's Moby Dick, which is around the mid

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. I'm sure that was probably the big influence

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Speaker 1: for you. That when I first read Melville, that's when

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Speaker 1: I started getting into clam chowder. I was going to

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Speaker 1: other soups. I was, you know, big into gruel early

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Speaker 1: on because of Dickens, and then Melville got me to

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Speaker 1: clam chatter. So that that's very astute of you to

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Speaker 1: pick that up. You had no idea this is going

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Speaker 1: to be an English two o one class, did you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't go to I didn't go to any of

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Speaker 1: my English classes. I went to Duke, so we didn't

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Speaker 1: have we didn't have to attend class. Actually, is it

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Speaker 1: is it harder to stay in Duke than it is

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Speaker 1: to get in Duke or other way around. Duke's a

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Speaker 1: little bit like all miss easy to get into, hard

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Speaker 1: to get out of. That's the only time anyone's ever

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Speaker 1: compared those two institutions. I do appreciate it. Um, It's

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Speaker 1: I think it's a great time to talk to you. Jay,

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Speaker 1: You're you're outspoken on UM on what's going on in

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Speaker 1: college with his name, image and likeness and players getting paid.

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Speaker 1: But also at the same time your mentor and um,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the great maybe the greatest coach

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Speaker 1: of all time is is having its final season and

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Speaker 1: Coach k looking back, when you're a young recruit out

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Speaker 1: of California, a six to eight prospect, you know, a

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Speaker 1: highly recruited prospect and coach k Is, they're not you know,

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Speaker 1: ten people in the world I know who coach k

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Speaker 1: is outside of Durham. What gave you the insight is

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna put my career in the hands

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Speaker 1: of this young man, and you know, forty years later

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Speaker 1: he'll still be coaching and be at five national championships. Well, honestly,

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Speaker 1: I didn't think about nor care about the forty years

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Speaker 1: later part. I only cared about the four of mine,

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Speaker 1: And maybe that's selfish, but it's all I really thought about.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't have a particularly good experience with my

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Speaker 1: high school coach, and I really wanted to have a

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Speaker 1: positive experience in college. And I realized at that time,

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Speaker 1: at seventeen years old, that that was the only time

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Speaker 1: in my basketball life I was going to get to

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Speaker 1: choose who I played for, and so I really took

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Speaker 1: the recruiting process seriously and more than anything, I was

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Speaker 1: choosing a coach, not a school. And I know, like

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Speaker 1: folks probably wouldn't want to hear that, you know, they

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Speaker 1: think that you should choose the school that's right for

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Speaker 1: you and everything else takes care of itself. But for me,

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Speaker 1: it was the opposite that choose to coach you want

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Speaker 1: and everything else will take care of it. Because if

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Speaker 1: I wasn't happy in my basketball life, I wasn't gonna

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Speaker 1: be happy with any aspect of college. And oddly enough,

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Speaker 1: Cooper I came down to, so coach K was on

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Speaker 1: that list. Lude Olsen was at Iowa at the time

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Speaker 1: and that was my second choice, and then Jim Beheim

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Speaker 1: at Syracuse and a guy named Ted Owens at Kansas.

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Speaker 1: Those were the four coaches I liked the best and

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Speaker 1: the four I came down to, and oddly enough, like

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Speaker 1: all four of them have been Final Four coaches and

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame and all that stuff. But I couldn't

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Speaker 1: have imagined that Coach K would be all of that,

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Speaker 1: not only all he would accomplish, but he would be

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Speaker 1: all of that to me, and you'd get a chance

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Speaker 1: that you know, I'm fifty seven and my coach is

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Speaker 1: still where I played, and that that doesn't happen. That

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Speaker 1: that's a crazy stroke of luck and blessing and whatever

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Speaker 1: you want to call it to. And my relationship with

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Speaker 1: the school is better as a result of him still

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Speaker 1: being there, if that makes sense. Like when we've all

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Speaker 1: got a bunch of friends who have you know, they

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Speaker 1: loved their coach, but when the coach left, got fired, whatever,

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Speaker 1: their relationship with the school was diminished a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And that hasn't happened for me or for us, and

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Speaker 1: that's that's pretty lucky. I think you're right on that.

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Speaker 1: Most people, um, who have played played somewhere and then

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Speaker 1: obviously things change a ton more now. But really the

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Speaker 1: most consistent person within an athletic program is usually either

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Speaker 1: the equipment manager or the trainer, and that's the guy

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Speaker 1: that you know, you latch onto old possum, still an

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Speaker 1: old miss. I can always go get a pair of

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Speaker 1: shorts if i'm you know, if I'm working out and

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Speaker 1: need the extra pair of socks or something. And then

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Speaker 1: they've been you know, it's just it's lucky for a

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Speaker 1: recruit now, Jaman looking back at your experience to even

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Speaker 1: by the time he figures out who he wants and

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Speaker 1: even finishing his career being of the same same coach,

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Speaker 1: much less the same staff. Yeah, if and especially in basketball,

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Speaker 1: if they stick around at all, M would had to

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Speaker 1: be stuck around. But M you know, some of the

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Speaker 1: really talented players they leave early. They're not thinking about

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Speaker 1: that relationship as much. But you know, I part of me,

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Speaker 1: Cooper thinks I got really lucky. And then the other

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Speaker 1: part of me was it was a it was a

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Speaker 1: decision that was easy to make because coach k was

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Speaker 1: so trustworthy. Um, I didn't have to I wasn't looking

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Speaker 1: at his resume, and I wasn't maybe blinded by the

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Speaker 1: shine of of what you might be blinded by now,

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Speaker 1: not that you'd make a bad decision as a result

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Speaker 1: of it, but at that time, I mean I kept

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Speaker 1: coming back to I like him the best. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I trust him the most, And it was a relatively

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Speaker 1: easy decision in that regard. And you know, back then

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Speaker 1: I'm older than you. But back then, when you when

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Speaker 1: you signed, you didn't sign till April and so I

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Speaker 1: committed in December because I wanted recruiting over with when

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Speaker 1: I knew I was tired. I didn't want any more

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Speaker 1: phone calls. I didn't want to talk to anybody else.

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Speaker 1: I did not enjoy the recruiting process from the selling points.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was kind of like you're being sold

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Speaker 1: a used car all the time, and I didn't like

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Speaker 1: being pursued that way. But once I signed, I was

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Speaker 1: really happy because then I knew it was completely over.

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Speaker 1: Because even in April, back then March and April, when

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Speaker 1: coaches would get fired, the new guy would come in

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Speaker 1: and say, hey, you want to change your mind? You know,

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Speaker 1: good new sheriff in town, all that stuff, and I

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Speaker 1: just I did not enjoy that call. I'd be curious

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Speaker 1: how you enjoyed from the other side, when you joined

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Speaker 1: coach k staff, recruiting kids. Was that challenging? Did you

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Speaker 1: enjoy that part any more than being recruited itself? Well,

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Speaker 1: recruiting was easy for me because I was a graduate assistant.

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Speaker 1: So the only thing I did was, you know, you

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Speaker 1: might meet recruits and squire them around on campus, but

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Speaker 1: I did not have to do off campus recruiting as

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Speaker 1: a graduate assistant and so I was pretty happy about that.

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Speaker 1: Tommy Amaker, Mike Bray, they were the chief recruiter. So, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, those guys did all that stuff. I was

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Speaker 1: one of the guys that would maybe once in a

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Speaker 1: while pick up a recruit at the hotel and get

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Speaker 1: them to breakfast with coach KA before they went to

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Speaker 1: the airport or something like that. And uh, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I remember sitting one time at breakfast with I was

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Speaker 1: one of the guys with Chris Webber when he was

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Speaker 1: being recruited and looking at him, going, man, if whoever

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Speaker 1: gets this guy is going to win a lot of games. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He was. He was a stud. Did you know when

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Speaker 1: you were coaching that you were not long for coaching?

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Speaker 1: Coman you won two national championships in three years. Um,

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Speaker 1: did you think I think I want to get on

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Speaker 1: the other side of basketball? I thought I would stay

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Speaker 1: with coaching, because what happened. I played pro ball for

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Speaker 1: a few years in Italy. Um that was, you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of my level. And after about three years of

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Speaker 1: playing over there, Coach K called me and offered me

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Speaker 1: a coaching job. And he had a position open on

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Speaker 1: his staff and I had applied to Duke Law School,

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Speaker 1: thinking that whenever I was done planning, whether it was

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Speaker 1: six years, ten years, twelve years overseas, I'd go go

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Speaker 1: to law school. And so he, uh, he offered me

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Speaker 1: this this job, and I thought, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: a good opportunity to get into coaching at a good level,

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Speaker 1: and so I took the took the position. I got

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Speaker 1: admitted to law school at the same time. And it

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Speaker 1: was his idea that I do both, that I coach

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Speaker 1: and go to law school. And so I did that.

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Speaker 1: And I thought early on, I thought I would I

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Speaker 1: would choose coaching as a profession because I didn't really

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Speaker 1: want to be a lawyer. I wanted the law degree.

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Speaker 1: And so when when my wife and I got married,

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Speaker 1: when we got gauged, we kind of talked about what's

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Speaker 1: the right what's the right thing for our family, not

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Speaker 1: necessarily what did I want to do or what did

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Speaker 1: she want to do? What what did we want to do.

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Speaker 1: We thought coaching would not be the best for a

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Speaker 1: family because we'd be moving all the time, and and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd probably get fired a lot and be

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Speaker 1: looking for other jobs and all that stuff. So so

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Speaker 1: we settled on being a lawyer, and then broadcasting came

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Speaker 1: after that, and really your first h feel free to eat, Jay,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to make you, you know, start to death.

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Speaker 1: But first gig right out of the gates is actually

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Speaker 1: calling games at Cameron Indore. And if anyone's never been there,

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Speaker 1: I've only been there one time. I went up several

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Speaker 1: years ago and I went to a Duke Uva game,

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Speaker 1: the one where Grayson Allen hit the shot at the

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Speaker 1: end may have traveled not. It was fantastic. Brought my

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Speaker 1: boys and it's just one of the great bucket list

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Speaker 1: things that you know, you talk about but you finally do.

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Speaker 1: And to be to play in there, to compete, to

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Speaker 1: sit on the bench and then the call games is um,

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Speaker 1: that's that's pretty magical. It was. It's been really cool.

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Speaker 1: Um and the more UH like having kind of grown

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Speaker 1: up there as a basketball player, practiced there every day

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Speaker 1: and UH and played there, and then my broadcast career

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Speaker 1: started there. So I started doing games there while I

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Speaker 1: was practicing law, and I really did it just to

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Speaker 1: get out of the office. I thought it'd be fun,

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Speaker 1: but I wasn't sure where it would lead. And it

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Speaker 1: led to something nice and that was great. But early on,

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Speaker 1: I think it really helped my broadcast career because it

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Speaker 1: was right after I'd coached there, so I knew all

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Speaker 1: the plays. I knew everything they were running, including like

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Speaker 1: what they were running in and out of bounds play.

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Speaker 1: So I'd say, hey, now Chris Collins is going to

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Speaker 1: get the shot, and then he would get it, and

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Speaker 1: people thought, oh my god, you know this guy know

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Speaker 1: how does he know that? And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I was there last year. I know. But then as

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Speaker 1: you know, and you knew what the opponents were running.

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Speaker 1: But then as the years go on, the amount of

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Speaker 1: work it would take to know all that stuff, the

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Speaker 1: amount of film you'd have to study, I would never

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Speaker 1: be able to get out of the house if I

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Speaker 1: did all that. Coach K, as everybody knows him, he's

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Speaker 1: always pretty accessible, he has his own radio show. But

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Speaker 1: he's still kind of a mystery how he can be

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Speaker 1: so patient and seems like, I mean, he gets mad, really,

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Speaker 1: but he's handled so many different egos and such, and

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Speaker 1: I was curious, does he handle every single person differently

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Speaker 1: or is it just this is the way Coach K

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Speaker 1: does it? And you either buy in or you don't

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Speaker 1: because it's he's had personalities come through Durham that if

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Speaker 1: and talents, it probably needed some massaging. Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: great question. I mean he um. Well, one, he's not

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Speaker 1: as patient as he comes across, you know he And

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Speaker 1: that's a good thing because whenever there's an issue that

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Speaker 1: needs to be dealt with, he doesn't let it go.

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Speaker 1: If it's a small thing, he handles it right away

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Speaker 1: so it doesn't become a big thing. And he doesn't

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Speaker 1: really worry about how like he'll handle people's emotions with it.

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Speaker 1: But he doesn't worry about if he's going to step

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Speaker 1: on somebody's toes or you know, kind of derail the

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Speaker 1: train a little bit and go in a different direction

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Speaker 1: as long as it's better to get the train to

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Speaker 1: the ultimate destination. And your question about does he handle

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Speaker 1: everything the same. He's got principles that he doesn't budge on,

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Speaker 1: but he treats everybody according to the way they should

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Speaker 1: be treated. So it's like the thing about you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm fairly, I'm not going to treat you the same,

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Speaker 1: but I'm going to treat you fairly. So everybody gets

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Speaker 1: treated fairly, but it's not the same. So you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe one guy is better motivated by getting on him,

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Speaker 1: so he'll get on that guy. The other guys better

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Speaker 1: motivated by, you know, putting your arm around him and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. I was the I was the one

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Speaker 1: that was better motivated by screaming at him and calling

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Speaker 1: him names. I would have preferred to be the guy

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Speaker 1: that got the arm around treatment with whisper in the ear.

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Speaker 1: But um, but he's great, like Christian coach Christian Latner

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Speaker 1: differently than others. And there are some guys that, um

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Speaker 1: that he would have to like build, build their ego up,

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Speaker 1: like he wants big egos. Um. Like I remember him

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Speaker 1: talking to the Olympic team saying, you know, don't don't

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Speaker 1: go buy into this, check your ego at the door.

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Speaker 1: Thing like, bring your ego with it. He goes, I

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Speaker 1: want big egos and egos of good players, but just

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Speaker 1: be prepared to blend your egos for the common good.

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Speaker 1: That kind of thing. Um, because there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of good a lot of good means in there. It's

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Speaker 1: not you know, you want to we mentality, but but

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of good means in there, so

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Speaker 1: you want you want I've always put it WE over me,

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Speaker 1: but not exclusive of me, you know that kind. I

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Speaker 1: think that's the way he goes about it. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: say it that way, but that's the way I would

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Speaker 1: would characterize it. Because he's coaching Olympic teams. I mean

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Speaker 1: the biggest start. I mean, you know, when you're coaching

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Speaker 1: Jordan and Pippin and you know, youing and I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's that's I would I would think that would be

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Speaker 1: an adjustment for a college coach who is, you know,

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Speaker 1: molding men and all of a sudden, you know, at

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Speaker 1: the at the next level to kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: you're dealing with um full grown men that have been

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Speaker 1: there that are not as easy to I guess maneuver. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I saw a few practices, not a lot

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Speaker 1: when they would be in Vegas, and I think the

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Speaker 1: biggest difference in the Olympic team and then his team

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Speaker 1: was the amount. He didn't have to teach as much

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Speaker 1: with the Olympic team and they didn't go as long,

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Speaker 1: so the the amount like he would ask them how

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Speaker 1: long you want to go? Stuff like that, so they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't practice as long. It was a totally different scenario.

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Speaker 1: But the team stuff that he had with them, like

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Speaker 1: he had one thing that. I mean, I tell this

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Speaker 1: story a fair amount, but it was really impactful on me.

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Speaker 1: Coach k and I had to go to some event

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Speaker 1: in Las Vegas while they were a training camp, and

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Speaker 1: so I got he said meet, ay, we're having a

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Speaker 1: team meeting. Meet me here and we'll leave after the meeting.

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Speaker 1: And I got there early to make sure I was

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Speaker 1: on time, and the meeting hadn't started yet. So he says,

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Speaker 1: come out of the meeting. So they he's talking. You know,

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Speaker 1: he's got Chris, Paul and Paul George and all these

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Speaker 1: you know, all these guys in there, Russell, Westbrook, Lebron,

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Speaker 1: you name it, the best players in the league, Kevin Durant.

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Speaker 1: And he finishes the meeting and he says, all right,

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Speaker 1: when you guys get back to your rooms, your hotel rooms,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be something waiting in there when you

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Speaker 1: get back, and it's going to be your your USA jersey.

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Speaker 1: And he said, look, all of us got our first

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Speaker 1: jersey at one point in our lives, whether it's your

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Speaker 1: little league jersey, your first varsity high school jersey, those

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Speaker 1: of you that played in college, your first All Star jersey,

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Speaker 1: and the NBA whatever it was and he said, I

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Speaker 1: want you to take the jersey and lay it out

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Speaker 1: on the bed, and I want you to look at

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Speaker 1: it and think about how cool this is and how

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Speaker 1: we you know, we get to do a lot of

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Speaker 1: really cool things in our lives and sometimes if you're

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Speaker 1: not careful, you can take it for granted. And he said,

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Speaker 1: don't take special for granted. You know, don't take special

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Speaker 1: for granted. And I really thought about that a lot.

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Speaker 1: It blew me away that he would say that to

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Speaker 1: those guys and that they received it that way, because

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Speaker 1: it really made it seemed to make an impact on them.

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Speaker 1: But I started thinking about it in my life, like

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Speaker 1: when I go to these arenas you're talking about, like Cameron,

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Speaker 1: or you know, you go to the Present Center at

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Speaker 1: Michigan State or Alan Fieldhouse at Kansas whatever, you know,

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Speaker 1: Am I am I looking at that? Like the first

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Speaker 1: time I walked into those places, I was in awe

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Speaker 1: and and so grateful for the opportunity. Am I still

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Speaker 1: looking at things that way? Am I taking special for granted?

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Speaker 1: And he's really good at that stuff, Like he's so

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Speaker 1: good at getting you to think about what's important. And

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Speaker 1: you know he's not going to x and o you

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Speaker 1: to death. He's gonna he's gonna reach you at the

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Speaker 1: right level. And it's it's that's a pretty amazing quality

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Speaker 1: he has as a coach and a person. Really, I

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Speaker 1: think I might need a little life coach action myself.

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Speaker 1: I'm always kind of looking forward to the next thing

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Speaker 1: and quit, you know, to really soak up and embrace

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Speaker 1: and um realize how special things are. That's that's that's

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Speaker 1: neat that he does that, And it's neat that he

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Speaker 1: can have that sort of impact on those on those

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Speaker 1: uh talents he surrounds himself with. That's I always just

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Speaker 1: you know, they're they're coaches that are mysteries, and coach

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Speaker 1: k is still kind of a mystery because I'd love you,

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Speaker 1: know you, I always want to you see him, you're thinking,

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Speaker 1: know him, but get in the locker room, especially being

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Speaker 1: in practice when he's you know, when he's after you,

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Speaker 1: when y'all are dogging it. One day, I would like

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Speaker 1: to experience that one I had a coach who was

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Speaker 1: kind of a Bobby nightclone. I was the guy just

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Speaker 1: like you, Jay, that got the wrath. You know, Randy

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Speaker 1: Livingston misses a shot and he yells at me for

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Speaker 1: you know, not having my shirt tail tuck to anyway. Heck,

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Speaker 1: how's this working? But I guess that we know our role,

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00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,919
Speaker 1: don't we well? And it was, it was, It was

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Speaker 1: not always pleasant, but but the funniest stories came from that.

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Speaker 1: So so oftentimes when I get together my teammates, the

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Speaker 1: stuff that was said to me is brought up, brought

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Speaker 1: up first. So at least I've got that in my

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00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 1: back pocket. I got it to you know, quote a

401
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 1: Caddy shack. I got that going for me, which is nice,

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00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:56,480
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438
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Speaker 1: inside each other's mind walcome mile in my shoes. Welcome

442
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Speaker 1: mile in my shoes. Shoes. We've all felt left out,

443
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: and for some that feeling lasts more than a moment.

444
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: We can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with

445
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 1: us dot org. Brought to you by the AD Council.

446
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: Welcome out in machines. What grows in the forest trees,

447
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: Sure no one else grows in the forest. Our imagination,

448
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too,

449
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: because when we disconnect from this and connect with this,

450
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Speaker 1: we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than

451
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring.

452
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: I discover the forest dot org, brought to you by

453
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: the United States Forest Service and the AD Council. Now, Jay,

454
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: you've been very outspoken and I'm I'm really curious on

455
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: yours and we just started. Your stance on the idea

456
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: of amateurism being kind of a sham going forward and

457
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: players in college being paid assuming their in students there

458
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: remain in good standing on the student side. When did

459
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: this come about? And then just what's your thoughts there,

460
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: because it's this is I've just been on the road

461
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: with my son recruiting, and the name, image and likeness

462
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: conversation happened at every single stop. So this is at

463
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: the forefront of of what college sports are going to

464
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: be about, maybe even high school. I'd love to hear

465
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: your thoughts, and I have some questions because I don't

466
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 1: understand at all well Cooper. It started when I was

467
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,719
Speaker 1: in college. I was a member of the NCAA's Long

468
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: Range Planning Committee. I was an athlete representative on that committee,

469
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: and they probably regret letting me in there because I

470
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: learned how everything worked, and I learned how policy was

471
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 1: made and what was behind it. And then I also

472
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: had the experience as a player, understanding that while while

473
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: they talk about amateurism like this, like it's a virginity

474
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: or or something. Well, what's really going on is every

475
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: good player in football basketball is an eligence according to

476
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: the rules, because everybody, especially at that time, and I

477
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: know at this time, has taken something like even as

478
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: little as you know, you're you're in Oxford, I'm in Durham.

479
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: You can take your girlfriend to a restaurant that you

480
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 1: go to a lot the owner of the place says, no, this,

481
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 1: this one's on us. Um, technically that's against amateurism rules.

482
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: And and you know there are other things. I mean, Heck,

483
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: when I was in college, UM, and in the seventies,

484
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 1: eighties into the nineties, players in the in the ACC

485
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: and other leagues they sold their tickets, they got complimentary tickets,

486
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: they sold them, and that happened everywhere. And the coaches

487
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: all knew about it, the administrations knew about it. Um.

488
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,959
Speaker 1: That was the way the world worked. And so all

489
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people out there that are

490
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,959
Speaker 1: your age, in my age, that are on the other

491
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: side of this philosophically than I am, that are out

492
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: there talking about the purity college sports. I'm going, I

493
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: know you sold your tickets, like what are talking about?

494
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,239
Speaker 1: But but but anyway, so that that kind of thing,

495
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: I always felt like it was a sham in a

496
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: lot of different ways. But it always bothered me that

497
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: all this money is being made. And when a player said, well,

498
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: how come we can't participate in this business, they would say, hey,

499
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: if you want to get a job, go get one.

500
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: So they were actually okay with us working and getting paid,

501
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: just not working and getting paid in the industry that

502
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: they're getting paid in. And I didn't care for it.

503
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: I never understood the difference between being an athlete and

504
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: being a student, And I never understood why somebody would say, well,

505
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: you are getting paid, you're getting a scholarship, and I'm

506
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: sitting next to a student, a non athlete student, it's

507
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: on scholarship. I'm going, well, nobody's telling that person what

508
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: they can earn or accept. They can talk to boosters

509
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: and they can talk to alums and get jobs from them,

510
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: But I can't like, why that's not right? And what

511
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: are we doing here? None of this amateurism never helped me.

512
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: It didn't make me a better person, didn't make me

513
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: a better student. Didn't make me a better athlete. It

514
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: just restricted me. And I didn't see the the harm

515
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: and I still don't. And then as I got older

516
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: and I got into broadcasting, so this one was a

517
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 1: hurdle for me. So when I was on that committee,

518
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: would I would speak out in meetings and get shot down,

519
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: whether it was allowing more benefits or transfer rules, whatever

520
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: it was, I get shot down. But I would be

521
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: a good soldier when I went out in the public,

522
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: Like the committee made a decision, the NC DOABLEA made

523
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: a decision, I'm supporting that, And so I did that.

524
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: But when I got to be a broadcaster, I started thinking,

525
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: we'll wait a minute. I'm criticizing officials when they make

526
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: a mistake. I criticized coaches, I criticized players, I criticized

527
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: the rules of play. If I don't like them, Why

528
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: don't we have a shot clock? When don't we have this?

529
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: All that stuff? And I'm keeping my mouth shut on

530
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: NC double A policy when it's time to discuss them,

531
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: not in a game, but you know other times. And

532
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: so I said, you know what, I'm gonna start talking

533
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: about this and I'm going to start sharing my thoughts

534
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: on it, and it's going to be informed and hopefully

535
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: it's going to be right. And I felt like the

536
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: NC double A had been violating federal and I trust

537
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: law forever and I said that, and now the Supreme

538
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: Court has set it too, and the Supreme Court carries

539
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,719
Speaker 1: a little bit more weight. Jay, how do you think

540
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: it's gonna work? And just here, like a in a

541
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: setting where you know, a kid's coming out of high school,

542
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: he's a hot shot. And maybe it's easier in basketball

543
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: to control because you have smaller people, but in a

544
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: big locker room and a football deal, you have kind

545
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: of definitely some some stars and then some guys that

546
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: you know, the left guard might not be getting the

547
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: same love as a as a starting quarterback or what

548
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: have you. How do you anticipate this happening? How do

549
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: you see kids getting paid? Like? Is it the local

550
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: car dealer saying, hey, Kimmy, we'd like you to be

551
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: on a billboard and we'll give you X amount, or

552
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: is it Nike on a bigger scale paying an individual player?

553
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: How do you see it? I know it's gonna be

554
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: the wild West for a little while until they figured out,

555
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: but I'm just curious kind of conceptually, how you see

556
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: it all unfolding? Well, and your question is revealing in

557
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: how we have been conditioned to look at this. So

558
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: at first you say, how are we going to control this? Well,

559
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: we don't need to control it because we don't control

560
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: any other aspect of this business. We're not asking how

561
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,479
Speaker 1: do we control coaches pay, how do we control facilities spending?

562
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: How do we control travel? We don't ask that. So

563
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: what I would say, Cooper, is the way, the way

564
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: we're looking at it, way we should look at it

565
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: is it's the free market, just like everything else, and

566
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: it will work itself out just fine. And because we're

567
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: not asking, you know, how are we going to deal

568
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: with all these different players of different ability levels when

569
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: it comes to playing time because the quarterback is going

570
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: to play more, The starting quarterback is going to play

571
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: more than the second and third string quarterback. And that's

572
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: not really fair because the second third string quarterback, they

573
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: work just as hard. And what about their feelings? You know,

574
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: don't We don't worry about that. We don't worry about

575
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: Not every player, and not every athlete in college sports

576
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: gets a scholarship. In fact, most a lets don't and

577
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: we're not worried about the inequities there, but man, when

578
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: money comes in, it has to be all the same.

579
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: And there's gonna be fights in the locker room. Not

580
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: not that you're saying that, but but a lot of

581
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: people are. And I've never bought that. Like I think

582
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: sports is the ultimate meritocracy. I knew who the best

583
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: player on my team was, and I did not resent

584
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: the fact that he should have gotten yelled at more.

585
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: But I did not resent, you know, anything that he

586
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: got relative to me because I knew it was fair.

587
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: And I don't anticipate any more problems than there would

588
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: be problems in the coaches locker room because the assistance

589
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: don't get paid as much as the head guy. I

590
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: don't think that's that's as big of a deal. But

591
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: I do think that once we get over this mental

592
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: hurdle of it's never been this way before, there's always

593
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: been this bright line, you know. I mean, I hate

594
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: to do this, but you go back to the virginity

595
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: example and you say, do you really believe that every

596
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: couple that's getting married our virgins and would be would

597
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: we be shocked to know that they've actually been with

598
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: each other before um, you know, like, come on, man,

599
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: we've created this ridiculous fiction. Let's just get rid of it.

600
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: Because we've never asked any of these like there's going

601
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: to be drastic change. It feels like drastic change because

602
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: there's been so much inaction over the years. But you know,

603
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: from the time you got, you played and I played

604
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: to now, there's been incredibly drastic change on the revenue

605
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: generation side, you know, like like we played in the eighties,

606
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: so back then our coaches made less than a hundred

607
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. They're all making millions upon millions now. And

608
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: nobody said, hey, we need to pump the brakes here.

609
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,239
Speaker 1: This is not what this is all about. We need

610
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: to we need to recalibrate this. But now with regard

611
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: to the athlete, there's there's worry about that, and I

612
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: for one, am not worried about it. I think it'll

613
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: be just fine and it'll be above board and honest,

614
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: and we're not going to be policing. Did this guy

615
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: take get a tattoo? Did this guy get this for free?

616
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 1: Did he get a did he get a discount at

617
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: the local foot locker? Who cares? I mean, let's just

618
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: let's just like, you know, that's normal human behavior. Let's

619
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: stop criminalizing that, uh and deal with the real stuff,

620
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: which is if you step out of bounds, it's my ball.

621
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: And you know, if you found me on a three

622
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: pointer or you get three free throws and move on. Jay.

623
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: Do you think it's going to be big in recruiting?

624
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: You think they'll have packages, say, hey, you're going to Auburn,

625
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: You're gonna we got you know, forty thousand dollars worth

626
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: of stuff for this, you know, outside linebacker. But then

627
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: you go to Georgia, he goes, hey, Auburn's problems with

628
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: forty Can we do something bigger? Is it going to

629
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: be a bidding war? And then also do you think

630
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: there's some schools that are maybe less relevant right now

631
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: that might be able to get into the game because

632
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: of their resources more so than others. Yes, um to

633
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: the second part of the question. Yes, So the first

634
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: part is it going to go into recruiting. Yes, Just

635
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: like now, a media guide talks more about how many pros,

636
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: how many NFL and NBA players they have that it

637
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: does about telling you about the current players. Those media

638
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: guides now are for recruiting, so they sell the NFL,

639
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: the NBA, Now, how can we can get you there?

640
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: That wasn't part of the conversation when we were playing

641
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: because it wasn't as big as it's a big issue now.

642
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: And that's fine, because you can get educated and pursue

643
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: a professional dream at the same time. Those things aren't

644
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: mutually exclusive. We don't tell that too. We're not telling

645
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: a musician, Hey, you know, only two percent of musicians

646
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: ever play at Carnegie Hall. I mean, what do you

647
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: do it? Yeah, we don't do that. We only do

648
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: it with athletes. So we are going to see, you know,

649
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: and the n double A and the conferences can come

650
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: and I think it's going to be at the conference

651
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: level come up with rules whether they want their schools

652
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: setting up endorsement opportunities for their players and participating. I

653
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: think in the long run, what we're going to find

654
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: is that the use of the university mark, the logo

655
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: and the player name and likeness, they're going to be

656
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: really valuable to the university. It's going to open up

657
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: revenue streams. They're gonna want to do it, and that's

658
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: gonna be okay, there'll be nothing wrong with that. But

659
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 1: I don't see it being a major problem going forward.

660
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: I think we'll just have to adjust our mindset to it.

661
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: But the I think the second part of your question

662
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: will schools that haven't been as competitive, will it make

663
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: them less or more competitive? Here's the way I look

664
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: at it. So if you if you took I mentioned

665
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,439
Speaker 1: Kansas before, so if you took Kansas in Wichita State

666
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: in basketball, Wichita State has little or no opportunity to

667
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: get anybody the Kansas is recruiting out of high school.

668
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: If they could pay or provide endorsement opportunities, then Kansas's

669
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: third best recruit, Wichita State could provide them more as

670
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: their top recruit than Kansas could as their third, So

671
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: that there'll be a decision point for a player to make.

672
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: Would I rather make more money at which to stage

673
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: than or be the third wheel at Kansas just like

674
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: you would with playing time, but they can offer like

675
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: money may be a little bit different, But I don't

676
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 1: think like some of the narrative now is well Alabama

677
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: is just going to be the best team in football. Well,

678
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,919
Speaker 1: first of all, the best team now because you can't pay.

679
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: But they make it seem like every good player is

680
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: going to go to Alabama now because Alabama may have

681
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: the most most money, but you're not going to It's

682
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: been proven already. Jalen Hurts and two a tongue of

683
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: Bylow are not going to be on the same team

684
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: because nobody is going to sit. They're going to go

685
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: somewhere else. And same thing like, if that theory were true,

686
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: then you know Nick Saban, Dabo Sweeney, Ryan Day, they'd

687
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: all be on the same coaching staff at Alabama, but

688
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: they want to be head coaches. It's different. So I

689
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: don't think we have to worry about as many of

690
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: these things, And we certainly don't need to worry about

691
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: competitive balance because there is none now There's none in

692
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: football and there's none in basketball. We have some upsets,

693
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: but we don't have competitive balance across the board. Soup

694
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: with Coop is proud to be presented by FanDuel. Never

695
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696
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702
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710
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: That is FanDuel dot com forward slash Cowherd, so they

711
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 1: know we sent you fan Duel more ways to win

712
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: and what's to make I guess to elaborate, the school

713
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 1: is not involved in this. I mean, the school is

714
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: not paying them. It's it's whoever else. But the school

715
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: is probably going to be the broker in some cases.

716
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: Or do you think every prayer will have an agent?

717
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: I think both so. Based on the rules as in

718
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: the guidelines as they're being put out now, the NCAA

719
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: and the member institutions are definitely afraid of players being

720
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 1: paid by the school in the future. So they're saying

721
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: the school can't be involved in any of that, although

722
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: the player will have to report income to the school,

723
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: will have to you know, register their contracts and let

724
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: the school look at them. All that stuff there has

725
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: to be like full disclosed, which I find ludicrous, but

726
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: but that's the way they're looking at it. The problem

727
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: with that, Cooper is is what the Supreme Court just

728
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: ruled in Austin indicates that any sort of restrictions in

729
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: player compensation in the future are are going to be

730
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 1: a problem with federal and I trust law. So once

731
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: once the instable a allows nil, that's always been a

732
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: bright line as to then they'd be pros. Well, if

733
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: they're pros, then they're pros. You know, like like why

734
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: could why would you deny them pay? So I think

735
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: ultimately we're going to be paying the schools are going

736
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 1: to be paying the players. It's neater, it's easier. Um,

737
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: you know, Coach k can't go out and do any

738
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 1: endorsement he wants because he basically sold that to the

739
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: school when he signed his contract to be employed, and

740
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: so they can tell him, Nope, you can't do that. Supercommercial.

741
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: You can't do that, marijuana, you know, dispensary commercial, you know,

742
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Why why can't they do that with

743
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: the players? They're afraid of it. But ultimately, in this

744
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: kind of multi billion dollar business, that's where we're headed.

745
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: And it also would take care of one of their

746
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 1: biggest complaints, which is transferring. If a player, like nobody,

747
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: whether it's an endorsement opportunity or nobody hands out money

748
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: for free and so like to your example, if there's

749
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: a local car dealership, they're going to require the player

750
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: to sign a contract and it's going to be exclusive.

751
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: We're the only card dealer you can deal with over

752
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: this time period. And if you get kicked out of school,

753
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 1: if you get kicked off the team, the contracts terminated,

754
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: If you're academically ineligible, the contracts terminating. Stuff like that.

755
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,919
Speaker 1: It'll be normal commerce. That seems to work with everything else,

756
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, for every other person. You know, it just

757
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: boggles the mind that a college athlete is the only

758
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: person in our economic life that can't you know, can't

759
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: handle free market. You know, the free market. I don't

760
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: buy it. If you're saying if if a team is

761
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: if Alabama wears Nike, that individual player will be prohibited

762
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: from doing an Adidas deal. That you're okay with that

763
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: or you think that's wrong. Well, if if the if

764
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: the player were to sign a sign a contract with

765
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: the school, that might be different. So if the school

766
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 1: is paying the player as an employee, then then I

767
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: think they could they could bargain for the right to

768
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 1: tell that player what to wear. But to me, if

769
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: it's just the nil thing, I've probably taken us down

770
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 1: a road I didn't need to. But if it's just

771
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: say it's just now with the nil thing right right now,

772
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,919
Speaker 1: and a lot of these states and the n double

773
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: A and all that they're they're they're saying that, you know,

774
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: you can't sign a deal that conflicts with the university deal.

775
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: And and part of that was political because they want

776
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: their universities protected in a way, you know, provide as

777
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: many rights to the players, but still protect the universities.

778
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: But but it it it sort of presumes that that

779
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 1: you know, sort of the money belongs to the school.

780
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: Uh So I think it should work just like the

781
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: NFL at the NBA, you know, so so uh to

782
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: your example, like Duke has a an apparel deal, with Nike,

783
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: so you know, if you're gonna play for Duke, you

784
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: have to wear the uniform and the warm ups and

785
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: all that other stuff and wear them as you're a

786
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: university representative. But there's nothing that says you have to

787
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: wear that shoe, Like why do you have to wear

788
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: the Nike shoe? You can have your own shoe deal.

789
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: That's an apparel deal with the school. You could have

790
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: a shoe deal, just like Steph Curry wears under armor

791
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: and then where's the NBA's Nike gear That works just fine,

792
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: and it'll work just fine with regard to college sports,

793
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: but the schools don't want it because they don't want

794
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: anything that conflicts with their deals because they're worried if

795
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: the players sign a deal, we that's money that would

796
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: otherwise be in our pocket, and they look at it

797
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,720
Speaker 1: as their money, and I see it differently, but reasonable

798
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: minds can differ on that. I'll be anxious to see

799
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 1: if you get some of these West coasts, the Stanfords

800
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: of the world, and you know that Facebook, once you

801
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: get involved, Facebook versus a car dealer in Tuscaloosa could

802
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: be meaningfully different in the amount of commas in the contract.

803
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: I'd be curious if Harvard got a pretty big endownment,

804
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: they got a lot of people whould say, you know what,

805
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: I'm tired of being kicked around the IVY League. I

806
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: want to dominate. You could get some alums to say,

807
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, we can we can get into this race too.

808
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: And next thing, you know, God's taking a visit to

809
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: Ohio State, Yale, Harvard, and you know, in Alabama. I

810
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: think that's gonna be intriguing because if the dollars are right,

811
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: people will look all over the place. I agree, And

812
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 1: it shows how one how big the business is. But

813
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: it also shows how valuable the players are. Yes, if

814
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: the players didn't have tremendous value, we wouldn't be worried

815
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: about this, you know, like because some people say, hey,

816
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 1: it's the name on the front of the jersey, not

817
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: the name on the back. Well, then why are you

818
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: worried about You could put anybody in that jersey. It'll

819
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: be just fine. They know. Everybody knows that the team's

820
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: what the best players win. That's all there is to it.

821
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: And we can talk about coaches and exit. You know,

822
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: no great coach is going to X and O his

823
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: way out of bad players, it's just not going to happen.

824
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: They're gonna get beat by the better players in the

825
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: long run. So your example, like, you know, we would

826
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,919
Speaker 1: never worry about that with coaches if boosters got together.

827
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 1: And so let's put a package together that Nick Saban

828
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: can't say notes. We're like, hey, that's business that you know,

829
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: and we use terms like like people use terms like bidding,

830
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: war and all that stuff, which in any other context

831
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: is called normal business. I mean, you know, we we

832
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: have a facilities issue now where rather than efficiently marshaling

833
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 1: resources to acquire talent, what we're doing is trying to

834
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 1: get around these rules by creating these incredible environments for

835
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: the players to attract them. So Oregon, Alabama, Duke, whatever,

836
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: they're building these palatial facilities, and what they're really saying is, look,

837
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: we can't give the money to you, but we can

838
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: spend it on you. So look at what we're going

839
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 1: to provide you. Like, does Clemson really need a slide

840
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: to get down instead of walking down the stairs? They

841
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,959
Speaker 1: need a putting green and a like a miniature golf

842
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 1: course for the players, and barber shops and all that stuff.

843
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: It would be better. Yeah, Bowling alleys, wouldn't it be

844
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: better if they just gave the players the money and

845
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: and did this more efficiently and then But Cooper, I

846
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: really believe this is true. A lot of people within

847
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: the structure know and understand that administrative jobs will likely

848
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: they're the ones that are going to go away. They

849
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: say other sports are going to go away, They're not.

850
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: Their jobs are going to go away because a lot

851
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,479
Speaker 1: of these athletic departments are bigger than the Pentagon because

852
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 1: they have the money and and you know, you look

853
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: at at the New England Patriots or Los Angeles Rams

854
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: or the Lakers, their front offices are pretty lean, like

855
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: they make some hires that they have to, but but

856
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: they're not bloated because because they put their money where

857
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 1: it matters, which is on the floor. And uh, and like,

858
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 1: how could it be that Alabama's facilities are better than

859
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: any NFL facility. It's because of recruiting. It has nothing

860
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: to do with performance. It's because of recruiting. I couldn't

861
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: agree more. I just did a tour of all of them,

862
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: and yeah, if you have something brand new, it's I'm

863
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 1: a little If you have something five years old, it

864
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: might as well be twenty five years old. You got

865
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 1: to get exact, keep up with the arms race, and

866
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,280
Speaker 1: you've got to be able to impress these naive seventeen

867
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: year old kids who don't know you know, what day

868
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: it is, that are trying to make some sense out

869
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: of all this um it's it's fascinating. I can't wait

870
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: to see how it all unfolds. Jay, you have been

871
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: a terrific guest. I can't thank you enough for being on.

872
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: As always, we take a little bite at the soup

873
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: at the end, probably good and cold, and we give

874
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: it a ranking from one to one thousand, And how

875
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: do your new end clam chatter taste at the end

876
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 1: of an interview? One thousand because I made it. But

877
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: you know, Cooper, I mean I feel for you because

878
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: I have eaten a substantial soup here, so I'm going

879
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: to be satisfied for a good part of the day

880
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: before next meal. You ate kind of a watery, you know,

881
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: chicken bass soup, but you're gonna have to go out

882
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: and grab some eat right now. You're gonna have to

883
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: go out and get a burger or something to tied

884
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: you over until later. So I'm the big winner here again.

885
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: It's rarely someone ends our show satisfied, so I'm killed

886
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: through one of many, so one of few, Jay, It's

887
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 1: gonna pleasure. I can't thank you enough for joining us,

888
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 1: and I'll see you around looking forward to a cup. Thanks,

889
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: brod Bet. Get right to the romance and find the

890
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,600
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891
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897
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