Speaker 1: Open to episode number four twenty one of the Marine
Speaker 1: Layer Podcast. It's a mailbag episode, so we'll open it
Speaker 1: up and answer your best listener questions. Will also react
Speaker 1: to the Mariners series lost to the Pittsburgh Pirates.
Speaker 2: Your guys, reminder before we start this episode, just make
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Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling and we welcome you to this
Speaker 1: episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just
Speaker 1: Baseball Podcast Network. Recording here on Thursday evening, June twenty fifth,
Speaker 1: and another series where we watch the Mariners and we
Speaker 1: see the same things again.
Speaker 2: Oh, you plan to talk about the Mariners on this episode?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yep.
Speaker 2: I actually thought we were gonna do a de facto
Speaker 2: podcast just talking about Team USA and the World Cup
Speaker 2: hashtag Go Go Usa. As we're sitting here recording, they're
Speaker 2: an extra time tied to t against Turkey. Go Go Usa.
Speaker 2: I mean they're already I mean they're already advancing to
Speaker 2: the next round. I thought this was going to be
Speaker 2: a de facto soccer podcast, so.
Speaker 1: We wanted to talk about an exhibition match in group
Speaker 1: stages against a team that's eliminated versus a team that's
Speaker 1: already advancing, instead of the Seattle Mariners on a Mariners podcast.
Speaker 1: Just want to clarify.
Speaker 2: Listen, I've gotten inspiration from this before for our friend
Speaker 2: Jared Caravas, who, by the way, I know we said
Speaker 2: we were gonna get him on this week. He has
Speaker 2: been absolutely slammed. We are still working on it. We're
Speaker 2: gonna get him on at some point, So if you're
Speaker 2: waiting around for a Caravas interview, we will do it.
Speaker 2: We're just still working out an exact time anyway. I
Speaker 2: remember back in it was the pretty old days of
Speaker 2: Section ten. They got so pissed off at one point
Speaker 2: having to watch the Red Sox. It was in the
Speaker 2: days of twenty twenty maybe twenty twenty one, that they
Speaker 2: straight up just decided to become a fake Phoenix Suns
Speaker 2: podcast for a couple episodes, and they just straight up
Speaker 2: started talking about the Suns on a Red Sox podcast.
Speaker 1: What team would we talk about?
Speaker 2: I'm sitting here like I'm sitting here talking about Team USA.
Speaker 2: Trusty scored his first goal of the World Cup, Burhalter
Speaker 2: punch one in in the forty ninth minute. They gave
Speaker 2: up two bad goals defensively against Turkey. But man, I
Speaker 2: gotta say, I know they're playing a bunch of backups
Speaker 2: here at Team USA, but they better figure it out.
Speaker 1: This is a problem for me, Lyle. I told you
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago when the World Cup was
Speaker 1: coming up. I'll tell you again. I can name like
Speaker 1: I think off the top of my head. I know
Speaker 1: one guy's name on Team USA, just I honestly, I
Speaker 1: don't even know the coach's name. I don't remember his name.
Speaker 1: I just remember he dresses kind of like a J
Speaker 1: Preller dresses. He just so casual, lets his hair down
Speaker 1: a little bit. It's not like he's coaching in the
Speaker 1: World Cup.
Speaker 2: I might get his last name wrong, but isn't it Pokatino,
Speaker 2: Mauricio Pocatino.
Speaker 1: Pochatino? Sure? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you know do you know Antonio Freeman's son, Alex,
Speaker 2: who scored the two goals against Australia. Nope, well Antonio Freeman.
Speaker 2: I was just talking to my dad about this the
Speaker 2: other day. Really good NFL wide receiver, like he had
Speaker 2: a really good career, and now his son is one
Speaker 2: of the stars at Temosa.
Speaker 1: Now I'm learning so much. Thank you.
Speaker 2: Are you having more fun listening to this than talking
Speaker 2: about the Seattle Mariners and the way they just played
Speaker 2: in Pittsburgh?
Speaker 1: I mean, just like all of our audience is probably
Speaker 1: learning from this. Low I'm all also like I'm stepping
Speaker 1: out of my host shoes right now and I'm becoming
Speaker 1: a listener and listening to you do a podcast about TEAMUSA.
Speaker 2: I know a little bit more about Team USA than you.
Speaker 2: We have some friends that know a little bit more,
Speaker 2: but I know, like I know a little bit more.
Speaker 1: Fuck, they just lost, like.
Speaker 2: Turkey just scored an extra time in stoppage time, Like okay,
Speaker 2: I mean they still advanced no matter what, and Turkeys
Speaker 2: still eliminated.
Speaker 1: And I literally I watch the match, I don't know
Speaker 1: who's dribbling the ball, and I see them shooting, I
Speaker 1: see them scoring. I go yay, all right. So it's
Speaker 1: just holistic. That's all you can get pretty much. Well,
Speaker 1: I know the striker who is really good, especially in
Speaker 1: the first game, I forget his name starts with a p.
Speaker 2: Oh not not Freeman. No oh, maybe I don't know
Speaker 2: my soccer. Wow, it's almost like this is a baseball podcast.
Speaker 2: I thought I knew my soccer.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 2: I'm really trying to stall to talk about what was
Speaker 2: just an absolutely horrendous series in Pittsburgh. I know they
Speaker 2: didn't get swept, but it was there.
Speaker 1: It felt like it.
Speaker 2: It felt like it. If not for Cole Young, they
Speaker 2: would have.
Speaker 1: Do you know what's the most disheartening thing about this
Speaker 1: Mariners series loss. It's not that the offense is not scoring,
Speaker 1: which I think people came here expecting to hear us
Speaker 1: freaking out about this Mariner's offense. They haven't scored more
Speaker 1: than three runs in eleven games. Eleven games they haven't
Speaker 1: scored three runs.
Speaker 2: Terrible. Oh, I'm an idiot, by the way, I blanked
Speaker 2: on his name while we were sitting here to it
Speaker 2: ball again, that's what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: That is who I'm talking about. And he's really good,
Speaker 1: especially in the first match. Yeah, but it's not the offense.
Speaker 1: Letle I mean, it's not the offense I'm most disheartened
Speaker 1: about because this Mariner's lineup, the way it's built, is
Speaker 1: always meant to be streaky, and right now they're at
Speaker 1: the valley of a streak. They score runs by hitting
Speaker 1: a bunch of home runs, and it just so happens
Speaker 1: there were a stretch of eleven games where they have
Speaker 1: the fewest home runs major League Baseball. So it's not
Speaker 1: a huge surprise that they're not going to score any
Speaker 1: runs in Pittsburgh when they're cold. That happens, the Mariners
Speaker 1: lineup will eat up and they'll start scoring runs again.
Speaker 1: That's not something I'm that worried about, especially since they're healthy.
Speaker 1: The thing that it just ticks me off about this
Speaker 1: weekend is the same things popping up again, being a
Speaker 1: huge reason why they lose. Can we just like list
Speaker 1: off a few of them again on number one defense, bad,
Speaker 1: base running, bad, Brian wool on the road, Like, what's
Speaker 1: going on?
Speaker 2: Brian wool on the road is horrendous? Yeah, And he
Speaker 2: was the one guy that was always neutralized on the road.
Speaker 2: He was the one guy who over the last couple
Speaker 2: of years when some of these arms had issues away
Speaker 2: from Seattle, Wu was always the one who didn't. Now,
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, his ra is well over six
Speaker 2: on the road.
Speaker 1: So much for his All Star game we talked about
Speaker 1: last podcast. Yeah, nope, so we're to that outing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're down All Star wise, we're down to Julio, Randy, Bryce,
Speaker 2: and Logan pretty much.
Speaker 1: That's a Brandy plays with him being apparently still a
Speaker 1: little gimpy from the hamstring, which I'm not that surprised about,
Speaker 1: But then we saw it pop up in a couple
Speaker 1: of different instances with Randy, whether it be that defensive
Speaker 1: play in left field that he had on Wednesday, which
Speaker 1: is just it was just awful. It was just horrendously bad.
Speaker 1: But he also just seemed kind of ginger going around
Speaker 1: certain places. I'm not surprised that the Marritors put Randy
Speaker 1: on the injured list when they said they saw more inflammation,
Speaker 1: and then he comes back after ten days off his
Speaker 1: hamstring and he's not totally healthy.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, yeah, I agree with everything you just said
Speaker 2: there except the idea that he might not play in
Speaker 2: the All Star Game. You think, in your right fucking mind,
Speaker 2: Scott Boris would let his client in a walk ear
Speaker 2: not step foot on the biggest stage and play in
Speaker 2: the Altar game. I think Scott Boris would rather let
Speaker 2: his players not a qualifying offer before that.
Speaker 1: What do you mean. I mean the goal for Randy
Speaker 1: is to get to free agency and get paid, not
Speaker 1: playing an exhibition game.
Speaker 2: You think Scott Boris doesn't want to remind everybody on
Speaker 2: the biggest stage that one of his clients is in
Speaker 2: his walk ear in an All Star game.
Speaker 1: Oh no, he'll be All Star game, does not. No
Speaker 1: one is signing Randy Rose Arena based off an All
Speaker 1: Star game. You know it's not gonna get Randy paid.
Speaker 1: So if he pulls his already injured handstring in Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: that is what doesn't get Randy paid.
Speaker 2: It's not about performance in the game, It's about the theater.
Speaker 2: Scott Boris himself is all about theater. He wants the
Speaker 2: stars on his clients. He wants Randy out in Philadelphia
Speaker 2: walking the red carpet, letting everybody know that he's flashy
Speaker 2: and in the walk here.
Speaker 1: He's an All Star.
Speaker 2: You know what, even if he even if he doesn't
Speaker 2: play in the game, and I bet you if he
Speaker 2: gets in he will, he will be in Philadelphia, walking
Speaker 2: the right carpet and doing everything.
Speaker 1: There's almost no doubt he can go. But I don't
Speaker 1: think he's physically playing in the game anything that requires
Speaker 1: physical activity. I don't think Randy is doing well.
Speaker 2: But he's playing in regular season games right now.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean he's gonna play in the All
Speaker 1: Star Game. Again, it's an exhibition.
Speaker 2: I am gonna wager that he is playing in the
Speaker 2: All Star Game if he makes it. That is my
Speaker 2: personal belief. He will play.
Speaker 1: I think you and I see this differently. I feel like,
Speaker 1: if Scott Borris hears that Randy rose Aren is not
Speaker 1: one hundred percent going to play in an exhibition game,
Speaker 1: I don't care which exhibition game it is, He's gonna
Speaker 1: say no. I mean, the dude pulled Tarek Scouoble off
Speaker 1: of Team USA in an instant. Isn't that pretty good marketing?
Speaker 3: But he didn't have him, but no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: But but he pulled him off. Did he have Trek
Speaker 3: Scoogle straight up not pitch in the WBC or did
Speaker 3: he have the theater where he's popping at him around
Speaker 3: and made the one start and then he pulled him out?
Speaker 1: Randy A.
Speaker 2: Rose Array, We'll be walking the red carpet in Philadelphia
Speaker 2: if he makes it.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying playing in the game, Ah, he will.
Speaker 1: I don't give two shits about the red carpet. He
Speaker 1: will be taking it at bat. Randy Rose Reena could
Speaker 1: be doing backflips down the red carpet for all I care.
Speaker 1: He will. Just don't want him stepping on the field
Speaker 1: if he in any way still is nursing that hamstring injury,
Speaker 1: because the last thing the Mariners need right now with
Speaker 1: the current state of their offense is an injured Randy
Speaker 1: Rose reina for an extended period of time because he
Speaker 1: doesn't get any time to actually heal his injury. You
Speaker 1: know what Julio did last year, very smartly said, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm not in the right mind space to
Speaker 1: play in the All Star Game. I'm not going. And
Speaker 1: what did Julio do? Well, he had a pretty good
Speaker 1: second half. It's good it worked out for him.
Speaker 2: Who was under a big contract and who isn't Julio.
Speaker 1: And then Randy is not. But I don't think the
Speaker 1: contract matters at all for the All Star Game. Again,
Speaker 1: I just think we need to get this idea of
Speaker 1: the All Star Game out of our mind.
Speaker 2: He will take he will take one at bat in
Speaker 2: the All Star Game, And that is my take.
Speaker 1: There has never been an instance where an All Star
Speaker 1: Game gets a player paid. You know, it gets Randy
Speaker 1: rose Rain a payton. When Scott Boris pulls up his
Speaker 1: baseball reference page and says, man, look at that slash line. Hmm,
Speaker 1: do you see that that says thirty steals, that says
Speaker 1: thirty home runs? Wow?
Speaker 2: Randy so well, I think you are underplaying the theater part
Speaker 2: of it. He will take one at bat and he
Speaker 2: will be there. He might not play the field, but
Speaker 2: again he's currently active, not on the il, playing in games.
Speaker 2: I don't think Randy is going to sit out an
Speaker 2: All Star Game. I just don't think that's who he is.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's who Scott Boris is.
Speaker 1: I guess we'll have to find out anyway. We just
Speaker 1: we could just speculate from here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that was a fun conversation that I didn't
Speaker 2: expect to have, But that is my take.
Speaker 1: The Mariners had a miserable series. Miserable, that's that's to
Speaker 1: put it lightly. Oh was I done with my list yet?
Speaker 1: So I did base running, I did defense, which are
Speaker 1: two classics. Brian Woop Brian wu pitching on the road,
Speaker 1: which is been really bad this year. Oh well, we
Speaker 1: had our we our series. It happens every series. Rob
Speaker 1: Refsnyder hitting in the biggest situation of the game some
Speaker 1: odd reason, like the Mariners are stuck in a situation
Speaker 1: today here on Thursday, where I mean, yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: lose lose and this this come down comes down to
Speaker 1: roster construction, where in the biggest at bat of the game,
Speaker 1: with the bases loaded, the Mariners are either gonna have
Speaker 1: Luke Rayley face a lefty who has h entering today
Speaker 1: had a negative eight WRC plus for the month, was
Speaker 1: ice cold hasn't hit lefties this season, Or you have
Speaker 1: one of the worst hitters in baseball and Rob Refsnyder
Speaker 1: coming off the bench. What should the Mariners do forfeit?
Speaker 2: Well, Victor Roblays was on the bench, although he hasn't
Speaker 2: been great either.
Speaker 1: Sounds like a lose, lose, lose situation for the Mariners,
Speaker 1: But any regardless, the situation gets presented to them and
Speaker 1: a key part of the game, Refsnyder is the one
Speaker 1: who takes the at that and then he shockingly does
Speaker 1: not get a hit. But I can't even blame Rob
Speaker 1: Refsnyder at this point. Lyle like, we all know he's
Speaker 1: not good. He knows he's not good. Why is he
Speaker 1: still here?
Speaker 2: I gotta be honest, man, if people are frustrated about it,
Speaker 2: and if you are, you are totally warned for feeling
Speaker 2: that way. I think we got a lot of the
Speaker 2: Refsnider talk out on Monday's episode, because yes, like, what
Speaker 2: more is there to say about Rev Snider's performance. Everybody
Speaker 2: knows we're halfway through the season and he's not hitting
Speaker 2: in any way, shape or form. But if you're still
Speaker 2: angry about it, look, we have plenty of problems with
Speaker 2: Dan Wilson on basically a weekly basis, But unfortunately, like
Speaker 2: TJ said, there's not really a winning situation here in
Speaker 2: terms of what to do in that scenario. And if
Speaker 2: you're somebody that straight up does not want to see
Speaker 2: ref Snyder ever hitting in those bats, well, then your
Speaker 2: issue goes higher than the coaching staff. It's up in
Speaker 2: the front office, because as long as Rob Refsnyder is
Speaker 2: on the roster, he's gonna be attempted to be deployed
Speaker 2: in situations the best fit his skill set, even if
Speaker 2: his skill set has not showed up all year. But
Speaker 2: as long as he's on the roster, they're gonna try
Speaker 2: to use him in situations like that. If you want
Speaker 2: him off the roster, you gotta take him off the roster.
Speaker 2: You have to take Dan Wilson's toys away. And that
Speaker 2: is a job for the front office. It's like that
Speaker 2: scene in Moneyball, right when Art Hall won't stop playing
Speaker 2: Carlo's Paynia at first base and Billy Bean wants Scott
Speaker 2: Hadiberg in there, and he walks into Arthouse office one
Speaker 2: day and he's playing the mind games with him. He's like,
Speaker 2: you can't start Paynia at first tonight. You're gonna have
Speaker 2: to start Hadiberg and Art House like, I'm not going
Speaker 2: fifteen rounds Billy, A lot of cards mine and that's final,
Speaker 2: a lot of cards all yours. I'm just saying, you
Speaker 2: can't start Paynia at first. I am starting Paynia at first,
Speaker 2: I don't think so he plays for Detroit. Now. That's
Speaker 2: essentially what has to happen here. The front office is
Speaker 2: gonna have to walk down there and be like, can't
Speaker 2: start rep Snider tonight? And Dan's like, well, uh, I
Speaker 2: am starting Repsnider. I don't think so. He's on waivers now,
Speaker 2: Like it's up to them to make the roster move.
Speaker 2: As long as repsiders on the roster, whether you like
Speaker 2: it or not, the coaching staff's probably gonna try to
Speaker 2: use them at certain points.
Speaker 1: For a Mariner's front office, that really last year did
Speaker 1: I thought pushed all of the right buttons when it
Speaker 1: came to how they not how they built the roster
Speaker 1: in terms of like it being a perfect roster, because
Speaker 1: it was not. If it was a perfect roster, they
Speaker 1: would have won the World Series. But at least it
Speaker 1: seemed like for the most part, they operated with a
Speaker 1: sense that they were doing what it took to win
Speaker 1: every single game possible. But now there's two instances on
Speaker 1: this roster where guys are still in their current roles
Speaker 1: that I just don't think are making the Mariners better,
Speaker 1: and the Mariners are making themselves worse by trotting these
Speaker 1: players out there in these situations that I don't really understand.
Speaker 2: When you say last year you thought the front office made,
Speaker 2: for the most part, pretty sound moves. You're not counting
Speaker 2: that they were given a fifteen million dollar budget in
Speaker 2: the offseason.
Speaker 1: Right, that's an owner's thing. Oh, that was an owner's thing.
Speaker 1: I meant in season last year. It's a little bit
Speaker 1: different for Rowdy's Talez and Donovan Solono because they're not
Speaker 1: making as much money. But when do the Mariners move
Speaker 1: on from Donovan Solana?
Speaker 2: Last wasn't dude, It wasn't until about August. And by
Speaker 2: the way, if you want to one up another in
Speaker 2: terms of the loyalty thing, remember how long it took
Speaker 2: him to move on from Dylan Moore. Remember how we
Speaker 2: talked Remember last year when there was a point in
Speaker 2: the year where we extrapolated a three month stretch for
Speaker 2: Dylan Moore against lefties where the man was straight up
Speaker 2: not batting average, but opsing won forty against left handed
Speaker 2: pitching for over a three month stretch, and they continued
Speaker 2: to like let him play, and we started to make
Speaker 2: jokes about could Felmen Celestine and High Everett current or
Speaker 2: in high A Everett currently put up one for ops
Speaker 2: against lefties in the big leagues versus Dylan Moore.
Speaker 1: You remember all that, Yes, I did. Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: a that was a fun one. Man. I didn't even
Speaker 1: it was even later than you said, Lyle. He didn't
Speaker 1: get defeated until September first.
Speaker 2: So they waited a long time with both Dylan Moore
Speaker 2: and Solano.
Speaker 1: But Solana wasn't playing by the time they got to August.
Speaker 1: His role of the his role on the roster was
Speaker 1: pretty much null by the by the trade deadline. But
Speaker 1: even and Solana was not this bad Demo. So Demo
Speaker 1: was playing. But Demo also like he didn't play it well,
Speaker 1: but he technically played infield and outfield. Yeah, like he
Speaker 1: had something. Rob Refsnyder is a d H who happens
Speaker 1: to be one of the five worst hitters in baseball.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like.
Speaker 1: They might hang on to him until the trade deadline.
Speaker 1: I I just don't I don't see why. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't see how that makes this team better. I would
Speaker 1: rather have Connor Joe Up who gives you more versatility
Speaker 1: in the field and is bet even though he's not
Speaker 1: a great hitter. The ball for beating what refsnyders give
Speaker 1: me out the plate is zero. Yeah, it's literally zero.
Speaker 2: So look, I let me give the front office some
Speaker 2: credit here, because, yes, the Dylan Moore thing really drove
Speaker 2: me nuts toward the end of last year. But you're
Speaker 2: right they did, for the most part, push almost all
Speaker 2: of the right buttons throughout twenty twenty five. I don't
Speaker 2: want to skew that they were not given a serious
Speaker 2: budget last offseason, and then with what they were given
Speaker 2: to work with, they they made pretty sound moves. I mean,
Speaker 2: the Leotie Taveras thing didn't go well, but that's an
Speaker 2: example if they moved off that quick they realized, look,
Speaker 2: we might've eaten a bit of his contract, but this
Speaker 2: isn't working.
Speaker 1: We gotta let him go, and then they they eat
Speaker 1: about the same amount of Rob Refsnider's contract right now
Speaker 1: if they let him go.
Speaker 2: So that's why again, I do think last year, for
Speaker 2: the most part, they were pretty sound outside of a
Speaker 2: couple of things the front office, but I'm with you.
Speaker 2: Why in the world are they still letting this whole
Speaker 2: thing linger and hang around. Why do we think they
Speaker 2: optioned Conor Joe over the Refsnider move.
Speaker 1: On one answer, because he has an option.
Speaker 2: I mean, he wasn't great in the last home stand either.
Speaker 2: He took some tough at bats, But to your point,
Speaker 2: you feel like he's got more versatility because he can
Speaker 2: play a little bit more in the field than refsnider
Speaker 2: ken and he's the right handed bat.
Speaker 1: And he just hits better. Like at the at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, like Connor Joe's WRC plus on
Speaker 1: the season is seventy seven Rob Refsnyders, I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: it's fifty points lower. That's probably a forty nine points
Speaker 1: lower right now. That's a huge, huge difference. That's the difference, Like,
Speaker 1: that's the difference between I don't have a good comparison
Speaker 1: right now, but fifty points is enormous. That's fifty that's
Speaker 1: fifty percentage points to average. I'll give you one.
Speaker 2: That's essentially the difference between Cole Young and Matt Olsen.
Speaker 1: Or you could do Cole Young and Dom can Zone
Speaker 1: on the same roster.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cam zone's a platoon bat. I'm trying to maybe
Speaker 2: that's a better example because we're talking about platoon bats,
Speaker 2: so sure, Cale Young, the canzone might be a better example.
Speaker 1: It's a huge it's a huge difference, so that that
Speaker 1: stuff really just kind of kind of baffles man. Louis
Speaker 1: Castillo didn't even pitch in this series, yet he still
Speaker 1: comes up and he's still relevant because that's the decisions
Speaker 1: this front office has made for now. And we'll see
Speaker 1: Louise pitch this weekend in Cleveland, and he will get
Speaker 1: a full start. He will be piggybacking. He will get
Speaker 1: a full start this weekend. What else from this Pirate series?
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, how do I want to say this?
Speaker 1: Go for it. I'll just say how Mike Sulk said
Speaker 1: it this morning when I was listening to the show,
Speaker 1: and I literally it's the exact same thing. I was thinking.
Speaker 1: I know, you and I we were talking about this
Speaker 1: just feels sleepy. It feels like when we're watching this series,
Speaker 1: like like, yeah, I jokingly expected them to win it
Speaker 1: because they've been winning series and then losing series, and
Speaker 1: then winning series and then losing series, and it's been
Speaker 1: kind of the same thing. Because they've been so inconsistent.
Speaker 1: But you just watch the series and it's like just
Speaker 1: kind of what it feels like. And I kind of
Speaker 1: felt that when we were at the park this weekend
Speaker 1: as well against the Red Sox. I mentioned to you
Speaker 1: how like kind of sleepy the atmosphere felt, and I
Speaker 1: wasn't sure if that was just me or not, but
Speaker 1: when I was watching that Pirates series, that's definitely how
Speaker 1: it felt.
Speaker 2: Dude, they couldn't score more than three runs. They haven't
Speaker 2: done it in two weeks.
Speaker 1: Of course, it.
Speaker 2: Feels like that. And man, there are a lot of
Speaker 2: guys struggling right now. I gotta tell you, there really are.
Speaker 2: The month of June has not been kind to most
Speaker 2: of this lineup.
Speaker 1: The Mariners lineup. The way it's constructed right now is
Speaker 1: it's so odd. If you look on fangrafts, they have
Speaker 1: seven everyday players who have a WRC plus above one hundred,
Speaker 1: and yet they can't score runs.
Speaker 2: But here's where it's at with a bunch of these
Speaker 2: guys for the month. Cal Raley entering Thursday is right
Speaker 2: at one hundred. I think after today it's gonna dip
Speaker 2: below that. But the rest of it, Man, Colt Emerson
Speaker 2: eighty four WRC plus, Julio seventy one WRC plus, Mitch
Speaker 2: Garver forty four, Rob Refsnyder thirty four, Victor Roblaze twenty
Speaker 2: and Luke Rayley is at negative eight for the month
Speaker 2: of June. Luke Rayley, we know he gets hot and cold,
Speaker 2: but this is pretty nuts the stretch he's been on
Speaker 2: in June.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 2: He was scorched earth hot at the start of the year,
Speaker 2: but unfortunately now as we sit here as of this
Speaker 2: morning on June twenty fifth, Luke Rayley for the month
Speaker 2: of June had a three thirty five OPS.
Speaker 1: Luke Raley kind of epitomizes this offense like he puts
Speaker 1: up most of his production by hitting home runs. That's
Speaker 1: that's the best thing. He does. Hits for a decent average,
Speaker 1: but he's got a ton of power, and his power
Speaker 1: goes away almost right in line with the Mariners not
Speaker 1: scoring any runs, and you look up and down like
Speaker 1: this is the lineup has a bunch of above average
Speaker 1: players in it, but they don't hit with runners in
Speaker 1: scoring position, which means to score runs they need to
Speaker 1: hit home runs, and in that stretch they've only hit
Speaker 1: seven home runs in eleven games. Yeah, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a little bit hard to score. And oh, by the way,
Speaker 1: your young guys have not been quite as hot. I mean,
Speaker 1: you had the cold young moment on Tuesday, which was
Speaker 1: really cool and really fun. I Cole Emerson. This month
Speaker 1: has been really really really cold at the.
Speaker 2: Point, and part of that's expected. This is what happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. And I'm not like trashing on Colt
Speaker 1: for it, but he does take up one of the
Speaker 1: nine lineup spots for a team that has scored three
Speaker 1: runs or less and eleven consecutive games. And we're begging
Speaker 1: to be consistent and go on and go on a stretch,
Speaker 1: and like when when the team is gonna Like when
Speaker 1: is it this team gonna click? Because we've reached the
Speaker 1: halfway point and they've not clicked. We've not seen the
Speaker 1: best version of this team yet. When are we going
Speaker 1: to see the best version of this team? It's certainly
Speaker 1: not what we saw this week at Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2: I hope it's a win and not an if. I'm
Speaker 2: starting to wonder if there's an if to this, because
Speaker 2: you're well, if it's.
Speaker 1: An if, then this team's just not good enough.
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, man, I had my questions all off
Speaker 2: season about what happens when you're sixty homer catcher doesn't
Speaker 2: hit sixty homers anymore. Nobody thought cal was gonna hit
Speaker 2: like this. Let's be clear. I think everybody thought he'd
Speaker 2: regress a bit naturally, but I don't think anybody thought
Speaker 2: he'd deal with the injury, and anybody thought he'd struggle
Speaker 2: like this because he's never done this in his career.
Speaker 2: Before that being said, I always wondered what happens when
Speaker 2: you don't have a sixty home run catcher. Now, not
Speaker 2: only do you not have a sixty home run catcher,
Speaker 2: but you've got your highlight acquisitions of the offseason, putting
Speaker 2: up a negative war for the year in Josh Naylor,
Speaker 2: barely been on the field in Brendan Donovan, and then
Speaker 2: paired with Julio having a brutal June. Colt's now struggling
Speaker 2: here in June, Raley struggling in June. The point being, like,
Speaker 2: the three main stars in your lineup are all having
Speaker 2: underwhelming offensive seasons, juliocal Naylor, that's what your team's built around.
Speaker 2: And if those guys aren't gonna hit it's hard to
Speaker 2: go much of anywhere.
Speaker 1: By the way, how do you get this back on track?
Speaker 2: That's the million dollar question.
Speaker 1: Be patient, no, man, I mean this has been Josh
Speaker 1: Naylor most of the season. And Naylor's hit better in June.
Speaker 2: He's got a one to twenty two WRC plus for
Speaker 2: the month, so he has hit better this month, but
Speaker 2: the overall numbers for the year still aren't otherworldly.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: And we know we struggled on defense this year all
Speaker 2: of a sudden. So yeah, it's been it's been a
Speaker 2: sluggish go. And by the way, at the well now
Speaker 2: more than halfway point through the season, because they're sitting
Speaker 2: forty one and forty one eighty two games in, they're
Speaker 2: still at five hundred. After having the best World Series
Speaker 2: odds preseason in the American League, they haven't scored more
Speaker 2: than three runs in a game in two weeks. By
Speaker 2: the way, this Pirate series, we're like twenty five minutes
Speaker 2: into the podcast and we haven't even mentioned for all
Speaker 2: the headaches and brutal play we saw over the course
Speaker 2: of the series, we haven't even mentioned the Pirates didn't
Speaker 2: roll out their best team. You didn't have to see
Speaker 2: Paul Skeins. You missed them in the rotation. You didn't
Speaker 2: have to see Connor Griffin who's injured. You didn't have
Speaker 2: to see O'Neil Cruz, who's been mashing this year but injured.
Speaker 2: Spencer Horowitz only played about a game and a half,
Speaker 2: so the Pirates leadoff hitter wasn't really in there. And
Speaker 2: then you didn't have to face a left handed starter.
Speaker 2: I mean, this was like a tailor made series for
Speaker 2: the Mariners, and they still looked brutal.
Speaker 1: Who do the Mariners face tonight? Oh?
Speaker 2: And Bubba cham Or you mean on Friday? Oh, on
Speaker 2: Friday Friday? Oh, Tej, I got good news. Joey can't
Speaker 2: tell a lefty. Joey can't tell against Luis Castillo. Listen,
Speaker 2: you can't online sports bet in Washington. But if there's three,
Speaker 2: I mean not gambling advice, but I feel like the
Speaker 2: Guardians might win that one.
Speaker 1: I'd say so too. Yeah, well it depends where's Rob
Speaker 1: Refsnyder hitting in the lineup.
Speaker 2: Well, he's gonna be in there. It's a lefty.
Speaker 1: What a frustrating series. We could go on and on
Speaker 1: and on and on about this, but it's I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm starting to get fed up, Like.
Speaker 2: There's I'm like the season as a whole, man, That's
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, best World Series odds preseason, and you're
Speaker 2: five hundred now more than halfway through the season. By
Speaker 2: the way, offensively as a whole, they're twenty second in runs,
Speaker 2: twenty sixth. Then team ops like this has not been
Speaker 2: a good offense.
Speaker 1: You're combining a bottom third offense with a really inconsistent
Speaker 1: pitching staff and a bullpen that is thinned out due
Speaker 1: to injury and pitching a man down, and a team.
Speaker 2: That's awful on the margins defensively, base running, dugout, decision making.
Speaker 2: I mean, like, there's a reason this has been maddening
Speaker 2: through the first half, and unfortunately, in terms of looking
Speaker 2: for reinforcements for it to get better, we might haven't
Speaker 2: fully fully stamped and decided yet, but we may do
Speaker 2: a trade deadline preview here this upcoming week, And if
Speaker 2: we do, I'll just give you a quick glimpse right now.
Speaker 2: There are not a lot of right handed bats out there.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: There is not a bigger glaring need for this team
Speaker 2: than a right handed bat, and there are not a
Speaker 2: lot of right handed bats that are going to be available.
Speaker 2: If you're dreaming on Byron Buxton, good for you. I
Speaker 2: hope it happens, but I wouldn't hold your breath and
Speaker 2: past him.
Speaker 1: Oof.
Speaker 2: We'll get into it more when we get to it.
Speaker 1: It depends how the series goes this weekend. If we
Speaker 1: need topics to talk about besides ranting about the Mariners,
Speaker 1: then we'll probably talk about some trade targets because people
Speaker 1: don't want to just listen to us complain the whole time.
Speaker 2: No, but again, this is getting This is getting real
Speaker 2: tough to watch as we near the end of June.
Speaker 2: There are way underperforming expectations. There are problems across the
Speaker 2: board in all three phases of the game. You've got
Speaker 2: injuries your stars, and they're still.
Speaker 1: They're still up in the division somehow.
Speaker 2: Well, which is amazing because the aos is as bad
Speaker 2: as we've ever seen it.
Speaker 1: But imagine what the sentiment would be if there was
Speaker 1: a team in this division just like eight games above
Speaker 1: five hundred and the Mariners are facing like a six
Speaker 1: game deficit heading into the All Star break. With the
Speaker 1: talent on the roster and the expectations, you'd be like this,
Speaker 1: like this, this isn't acceptable.
Speaker 2: I still don't think it's acceptable.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I know they're in the first place in the division.
Speaker 1: Now it might be even louder than it currently is.
Speaker 2: Sure, but it's almost by default they're in first place
Speaker 2: because nobody's taken grasp of this division. Yeah, well, I
Speaker 2: think by the way, let me let me be very
Speaker 2: clear on something here. I know the Mariners currently lead
Speaker 2: the division, but this idea that they can just continue
Speaker 2: to coast like this is not right because you look
Speaker 2: at the Al West man, the Astros are a game
Speaker 2: and a half out, the A's are a game and
Speaker 2: a half out, the Rangers are a game and a
Speaker 2: half out. If somebody catches fire for ten days like,
Speaker 2: you're in trouble. If you don't turn this thing around.
Speaker 1: Big trouble. And if they're staring up at a division
Speaker 1: deficit as loud as we think the complaining is right now,
Speaker 1: it will be much much worse because there is no
Speaker 1: way this roster should lose the Al West, no way.
Speaker 1: It's there's too much talent on this roster for this
Speaker 1: team to lose to the other four teams in this division,
Speaker 1: who are frankly not as good in most areas. So
Speaker 1: we're halfway and we're not totally pleased with what we've
Speaker 1: seen so far. We got a lot of wonderful mailbag
Speaker 1: questions in this podcast episode. Patrons again really showed out
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash Marine Layer Pod for priority if
Speaker 1: you want to get in on those. Before we get
Speaker 1: to those questions, we'll pause here for an ad. We
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Speaker 1: And I want to remind you guys before we get
Speaker 1: into these questions, our next live event at the Hall
Speaker 1: in collaboration with Corona, is coming up a week from
Speaker 1: this Sunday on July fifth, for the afternoon game against
Speaker 1: the Toronto Blue Jays. We'll be watching the game live
Speaker 1: with you guys at Occidental Hall route right down by
Speaker 1: the ballpark giveaways, and then we'll be taping the podcast after.
Speaker 1: So even if you're going to the game and you
Speaker 1: want to swing by Occidental Hall after, we'll be taping
Speaker 1: upstairs and you can listen to our live reaction to
Speaker 1: that series against the Toronto Blue Jays. And then also, guys,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned before, the way to get on these
Speaker 1: mailbag episodes, especially nowadays because the patrons have really showed out,
Speaker 1: is Patreon dot com slash Marine Layer Pod. Being a
Speaker 1: Patreon of this podcast gets you add free episodes, it
Speaker 1: gets you mailbag priority, and it gets you a video
Speaker 1: call with Laal and I once a month. So the
Speaker 1: place to go for all that is Patreon dot com
Speaker 1: slash Marine Layer Pod. Rob on Patreon asks what will
Speaker 1: Jerry set the ask Price to send Kirby to the
Speaker 1: Mets so that they can offer the Mets can offer
Speaker 1: their fans a feel good homecoming story and give the
Speaker 1: Maritors some potential additions to the roster here at the
Speaker 1: trade deadline.
Speaker 2: I guess it's a nice thought for Mets fans. It's
Speaker 2: a nice thought. The problem is, I don't think the
Speaker 2: Mets match up well with the Mariners in terms of
Speaker 2: a trade partner. If you look at what the Mariners need,
Speaker 2: they need right handed bats, and unfortunately the Mets are
Speaker 2: pretty left handed heavy. You look through potential players that
Speaker 2: might interest the Mariners in terms of young, controllable bats
Speaker 2: Carson Benge, aj Ewing, etc. They're all lefties. And then
Speaker 2: all their high paid guys aren't gonna go anywhere, Like
Speaker 2: obviously we're not gonna bother talking about Soto. I don't
Speaker 2: think the Mariners would want a shed at this point.
Speaker 2: Francisco Alvarez right handed hitter, but catcher. Mariners don't need
Speaker 2: to catch her. So the only guys that really all
Speaker 2: of a sudden fit into that bucket are their young
Speaker 2: pitch like Nolan McLain. But if the Mets were gonna
Speaker 2: trade for a pitcher. I don't think they give up
Speaker 2: a young pitcher.
Speaker 1: What if the Mariners asked for Jonah Tong and Devin
Speaker 1: Williams for George Kirby. So Jonah Tong is right now
Speaker 1: the mets number one prospect. He was lining the pitching
Speaker 1: world on fire last year in the minor leagues before
Speaker 1: he came up. This year's been a little bumpier for him,
Speaker 1: but he really did show out last year. He had
Speaker 1: excellent stuff. And then Devin Williams for where the Mets
Speaker 1: are at right now. Since the Mets are really down bad,
Speaker 1: they don't really need a bloated reliever contract, so they
Speaker 1: offload that and then they give up their top prospect
Speaker 1: to the Mariners for two years of George Kirby. Maybe
Speaker 1: it costs another prospect on top of that, but it's
Speaker 1: an idea.
Speaker 2: Devin Williams is so fascinating man, and it's why we
Speaker 2: were so fascinated with him in the offseason. His savant
Speaker 2: page has so many aspects that are just off the chart.
Speaker 2: But it's also the second year in a row where
Speaker 2: the actual results haven't been there, So how do you
Speaker 2: balance that multiple years in a row of tough results
Speaker 2: but looking at his profile and saying, God, he strikes
Speaker 2: out a ridiculous amount of guys. He gets so much chase,
Speaker 2: he doesn't get hit hard.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: I feel like the Mariners need results at this point,
Speaker 2: and we're talking about a couple of years of results
Speaker 2: with Devin Williams where it hasn't been there.
Speaker 1: At this point, you trade for him and you cross
Speaker 1: your fingers that you get two good months out of
Speaker 1: Devin Williams. But I know you got to deal with
Speaker 1: the years after. But this year is what matters right now.
Speaker 2: But is that what you want to get back for
Speaker 2: George Kirby. I almost feel like you'd be selling yourself short.
Speaker 1: Well, I'd rather get Trek Scubaele back, but that's a
Speaker 1: different discussion. We're just talking about the Mets, right.
Speaker 2: But if you have two and a half years of
Speaker 2: Kirby and we're to trade him this second, like the
Speaker 2: mail bag question is insinuating, I feel like you can
Speaker 2: get a better, young, controllable bat for Kirby than what
Speaker 2: the Mets have to offer, hitting wise or pitching wise.
Speaker 2: And that's why I just think the Mets don't line
Speaker 2: up well as a trade partner for this.
Speaker 1: We texted our friend Draftnick Mark this question and asked
Speaker 1: him who would who would be available for George Kirby,
Speaker 1: and it sounded like most people on the Mets, which
Speaker 1: isn't a really good side when you're trading for a team.
Speaker 1: I asked Mark, like, could you could you get their
Speaker 1: top three prospects for George Kirbey said, oh, yeah, but.
Speaker 2: By by prospects, he means tongue, and he means Rhymer,
Speaker 2: and he means Clifford guys like that. And by the way,
Speaker 2: guys like Clifford and Rhymer aren't in like pipeline or
Speaker 2: just Baseball's top one hundred. They're further down. Those are
Speaker 2: just the Mets top prospects. So in reality, I don't
Speaker 2: know if the return value really matches up there. And
Speaker 2: then when Mark says prospects, he means guy that have
Speaker 2: not debuted yet. So if your idea is, oh, well,
Speaker 2: trade for Carson Benge or trade for aj Ewing, the
Speaker 2: Mets aren't gonna give up those guys for Kirby.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so either, So it's not the
Speaker 1: Mets are not a great trade target, which is again
Speaker 1: why this trade deadline is gonna be maybe a little
Speaker 1: frustrating for meritors fans because these sellers don't have any
Speaker 1: slam dunk, not as many slam dunk options for the
Speaker 1: team to go out there and get right. Next question
Speaker 1: comes from Michael on Patreon. Bear with me, Michael. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate the question, honestly, not sure how I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to read it. It's a Field of Dreams reference, and
Speaker 1: it essentially comes down to like asking about the quote
Speaker 1: from I believe from Kevin Costner in the movie. No,
Speaker 1: he'sid No.
Speaker 2: It's not from Kevin Costner. It's not from Kevin Costner.
Speaker 2: It's from James Earl Jones. It's from Terrence Man. You'll
Speaker 2: you'll learn soon enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I watch the movie. Oh update for the people.
Speaker 1: I will watch the movie this weekend. Wow, did I
Speaker 1: misread this question? No TG. In the movie Field of Dreams,
Speaker 1: Terrence Man, the reclusive author Ray played by Kevin Costner,
Speaker 1: seeks out delivers a famous monologue about why people will
Speaker 1: come to the field. What is the quote? Quote? The
Speaker 1: one constant through all the years Ray has been baseball.
Speaker 1: It reminds all of us that once that once was good,
Speaker 1: and that could be good again. Oh was that right?
Speaker 2: Well, maybe Michael jumbled some of the words a little
Speaker 2: bit because that quote is James Earl Jones. That's Terrence
Speaker 2: Mann is the name of the guy in the movie.
Speaker 1: He would know that if I watched the movie.
Speaker 2: Well, you'll you'll learn here it's soon enough and then
Speaker 2: you're gonna watch the movie and be like, wow, I
Speaker 2: really should have watched this before I saw the Field
Speaker 2: of Dreams in person.
Speaker 1: You know what I think. I think it's a win
Speaker 1: that I got to see it in person first, and
Speaker 1: then I can appreciate the cornstocks that will be in
Speaker 1: the movie that weren't there when we visited.
Speaker 2: Well, that was unfortunate. Luck Yeah, they had too much
Speaker 2: rain in the spring, but that's what they said when
Speaker 2: we got there. They had too much rain and the
Speaker 2: crops didn't stay. But yeah, the one constant through all
Speaker 2: the year's ray has been baseball. I mean, there's a
Speaker 2: lot more to it than that, but that is James Earl.
Speaker 1: Jones in the movie Great Darth Vader.
Speaker 2: He is very much Darth Vader.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, thank you for the question. Michael, always appreciate it.
Speaker 1: The next question comes from Eric on Patreon. Eric's question
Speaker 1: is what the hell Mariners? Yeah, I ain't got much.
Speaker 2: I think the statement's totally valid, and I think we'll
Speaker 2: just leave it at that, like, figure it out, get
Speaker 2: it going.
Speaker 1: That's pretty much what we let this podcast episode off with,
Speaker 1: because yeah, it's been about eighty two games worth of
Speaker 1: exactly that. Caden on Patreon asks is it time to
Speaker 1: trade Castillo because it's clear he won't go to the bullpen?
Speaker 2: So I think it's more the Mariners haven't asked him
Speaker 2: to go to the bullpen, rather than Luis refuses. Do
Speaker 2: you think that conversation's really been had. I guess it's
Speaker 2: possible and they don't want to air it out, but
Speaker 2: I feel like that conversation hasn't happened.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't put it past a big league picture to
Speaker 1: refuse to go to the bullpen, but I just don't
Speaker 1: feel like there's much leverage in this situation. Right.
Speaker 2: My whole thing, well, my whole thing is what does
Speaker 2: refuse mean? If the Mariners really decided they wanted to
Speaker 2: go with a five man rotation, they'd sit him down
Speaker 2: and say, hey, I'm the team, I'm the manager, you're
Speaker 2: the player. This is how we're managing our roster. You
Speaker 2: will not be starting every fifth day anymore. If the
Speaker 2: Mariners wanted to have that conversation, I think they would
Speaker 2: have had it by now. Luis can't just force himself
Speaker 2: to start in a game. I think the Mariners haven't
Speaker 2: asked them.
Speaker 1: What it feels like to me is that they're waiting
Speaker 1: for him, at least now, to offer to go to
Speaker 1: the bullpen. I don't think he's gonna do that, but
Speaker 1: I don't think he's gonna do that. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's gonna do it either, but I guess from everything
Speaker 1: we picked up that's kind of what it sounds like.
Speaker 1: Because he is a leader in that clubhouse and especially
Speaker 1: among that pitching staff, so there is still some role
Speaker 1: for him to lead. So none of the other starters
Speaker 1: are gonna say, yeah, Louis, you got sorry, you got
Speaker 1: to go to the bullpen now. They're not gonna do that,
Speaker 1: not to him, So it's totally up to him to
Speaker 1: go to the bullpen. And I'm clearly that he's not
Speaker 1: in the bullpen. I think if he offered to go
Speaker 1: pitch in the bullpen, he'd be in the bullpen right now,
Speaker 1: and the Manners would have a five man rotation, but
Speaker 1: they don't. But I don't think that's Luis's job.
Speaker 2: It's on the team to sit him down and say, hey,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, our five starters are pitching better than you,
Speaker 2: You're going to the bullpen.
Speaker 1: I one hundred percent agree with you. Like decision makers
Speaker 1: need to make decisions, and then the players play like
Speaker 1: that's why everyone has their role, Like I don't.
Speaker 2: If they're waiting on Luise to wait and tell them
Speaker 2: he'll go to the bullpen, then that's absurd.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: I think the Mariners just haven't had the conversation. And
Speaker 2: if they want to move him to the bullpen, and
Speaker 2: a lot of people out there want to see that.
Speaker 1: Then the Mariners need to tell him.
Speaker 2: They need to sit them down and tell him there's
Speaker 2: no refusal. You're not the manager, you're the player. I
Speaker 2: know you might not be happy about it, and I
Speaker 2: know you're making a lot of money, but if you're
Speaker 2: not performing, you're not performing.
Speaker 1: And then to the first part of this, as we've
Speaker 1: talked about a bunch with a Castillo trade, I just
Speaker 1: don't see how it happens. His stock is at an
Speaker 1: all time low right now and he's owed a ton
Speaker 1: of money. I don't know if there is a team
Speaker 1: out there that would take on Luis Castillo for any
Speaker 1: sort of return that the Mariners would accept. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the Mariners would see more value about having
Speaker 1: Louis Castillo as like starting pitching depth or a bullpen arm,
Speaker 1: opposed to what you could get back for a twenty
Speaker 1: four million dollars salary in a six cra.
Speaker 2: Would you contract swap Luis and Jorge Polanco? It's about
Speaker 2: the same money.
Speaker 1: No, No, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm just spitball on ideas out there.
Speaker 1: I'm just curious. I mean, Jorge Polonco, I think would
Speaker 1: make the Mariner's roster even less athletic and would create
Speaker 1: all sorts of logjams.
Speaker 2: Look, I'm trying to throw ideas out because right handed
Speaker 2: bats are limited. He can switch hit, and if he
Speaker 2: gets back healthy, we know the Mariners really wanted him
Speaker 2: back this offseason. So I'm just thinking of the idea
Speaker 2: that maybe that's a way to get yourself a right
Speaker 2: handed bat and hope he finds the spark that he
Speaker 2: had last year, because again, the money's about the same.
Speaker 2: Polo's making twenty million a year. Louise is making about
Speaker 2: twenty three and each of them at this point in
Speaker 2: time have a year and a half left on their deal.
Speaker 1: He could in theory. I just I don't see that
Speaker 1: I trade Luise for Trek Scuoble once for one, right,
Speaker 1: like so would I.
Speaker 2: That'd be awesome, But yeah, I don't see that happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, if it doesn't seem like Luis is gonna bring
Speaker 2: you much value on the market, and if that's the case,
Speaker 2: that's why I think you just keep them, make them
Speaker 2: a bullpen arm and in one inning spurts he could
Speaker 2: have a chance to pump up her nineties and actually
Speaker 2: provide you something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah he could. Next question comes from Evan on Patreon.
Speaker 1: Evan's question is putting aside all egos and expectations, what
Speaker 1: would you guys make the lineup the batting order based
Speaker 1: on what we have seen this season, not what we'd
Speaker 1: hope or expect. I mean from where things are at
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: I mean I put it like this, I went Randy Canzone,
Speaker 2: Julio Naylor, Cal Rayley, JP Cole Young, Colt Emerson, and
Speaker 2: I think the big things to hit on there are
Speaker 2: probably the top half the lineup. So Canzone all the
Speaker 2: way up at two against Randy Canzone, Julio, Naylor, cal.
Speaker 1: I went, Crawford leading off with a little bit more
Speaker 1: on base, Randy second, Julio third, Canzone, fourth, Cal fifth,
Speaker 1: Naylor sixth, Rayley seventh, Emerson eighth, and Cole Young ninth.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's not that different. So you just have JP leading.
Speaker 1: Off, he's got a little bit more on base, and
Speaker 1: then at least Cole Young has been getting on base
Speaker 1: a decent amount this season, which is why I put
Speaker 1: him at nine over cold, and then Luke Rayley. That's
Speaker 1: essentially based on to Evan's question, like what is happening
Speaker 1: right now where Luke Rayley is ice ice ice cold,
Speaker 1: so therefore he gets to hit seventh instead of someone else.
Speaker 1: But like Luke Rayley Josh Naylor are pretty much in
Speaker 1: the same bucket right now. They're pretty cold, which is
Speaker 1: why they get to hit that four down in the
Speaker 1: lineup and those first five get to hit where they are.
Speaker 2: Well, and this wasn't a mailbag topic, but I do
Speaker 2: wonder if it would do cal Raley some good to
Speaker 2: get him out of the two spot until they start
Speaker 2: it's getting it going. I almost I almost structured this
Speaker 2: lineup in a way. That's here's what you could do
Speaker 2: until Cal Raley gets things going again, which is your
Speaker 2: three best hitters just hitting the first three spots. Randy
Speaker 2: canzone Julio well, and Julio struggled too, But I don't
Speaker 2: know where else he's gonna go.
Speaker 1: Randy again, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have a problem
Speaker 1: hitting Cal like fifth. Like selfish, I'll do like the
Speaker 1: first four of my lineup too well.
Speaker 2: No, I have Cal hitting fifth, That's what I'm saying. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but that's not the two spot.
Speaker 1: It's a little different. It is a little different. I'm
Speaker 1: I don't know how much of a difference that's gonna
Speaker 1: make for Col. Yeah, like Mike Camz struggle whether or
Speaker 1: not he was hitting in the two spot this.
Speaker 2: Year, maybe better it would get cam Zone some extra bats.
Speaker 1: You would do that, I mean, you do it a
Speaker 1: little bit for Cal, but you'd also do it to
Speaker 1: try and score more runs by getting your best hitters
Speaker 1: more at bats instead of burying them in the lineup.
Speaker 1: Because as it is right now, you have a cold
Speaker 1: Col hitting second, and you have a cold Julio hitting third.
Speaker 1: A little bit harder to score runs that way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well that's how it is.
Speaker 2: It's fair.
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Speaker 1: question comes from Xander. He's got a trade proposal for us.
Speaker 1: The Mariners and the Pirates make a trade where the
Speaker 1: Mariners acquire Brian Reynolds and Dennis Santana, the Pirates acquire
Speaker 1: Emerson Hancock, Mason Peters and Felnine Celeston.
Speaker 2: So Xander even said it in the question. He's almost
Speaker 2: bringing up some old flames by rehashing of Brian Reynolds
Speaker 2: trade idea, because back in twenty twenty one and twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two that was a big topic. Brian Reynolds circled
Speaker 2: Mariners waves a lot. But Brian Reynolds since then signed
Speaker 2: a pretty sizable extension in Pittsburgh, and as we currently sit,
Speaker 2: he's got sixty eight million dollars remaining on what's four
Speaker 2: and a half more years of that contract, and it
Speaker 2: takes them through his age thirty six season or well
Speaker 2: there's a club option in twenty thirty one, when he'd
Speaker 2: be thirty six years old. I don't really see the
Speaker 2: Mariners taking on money like that and to have to
Speaker 2: give up everything on their end, especially when I think
Speaker 2: it's unlikely that contract age as well, because Brian Reynolds
Speaker 2: doesn't play great defense, and he's already in his thirties.
Speaker 1: And Brian Reynolds is really inconsistent. He's not the type
Speaker 1: of hitter he's been this year. He's not always been
Speaker 1: that type of hitter. I mean, if you traded for
Speaker 1: him this instant and you're able to get like some
Speaker 1: of his past production from this year on this roster,
Speaker 1: like all right, this is a bit of a win now,
Speaker 1: a win now move, but like in the future, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't think I'm with Lyle. I don't
Speaker 1: think this contract ages very well. And then Dennis Santana,
Speaker 1: It's been really good the past two years, but this year,
Speaker 1: I mean he's regressed across the board. His velocity on
Speaker 1: his fastball is way down, as a lot of his
Speaker 1: other peripherals are down across the board, and he's just
Speaker 1: entered thirty. Not as much confidence that he is back
Speaker 1: to his peak for him again for this kind of
Speaker 1: package where the Mariners be sending what four years of
Speaker 1: club control of Emerson Hancock three years some one of
Speaker 1: those two of Emerson Hancock. Mason Peters has been really
Speaker 1: fun down on the farm system this year. And then
Speaker 1: Felnin who's right now, a top one hundred prospect. So
Speaker 1: you're sending a big league starter, a top one hundred
Speaker 1: prospect for about seventy million dollars of Brian Reynolds who's
Speaker 1: been very inconsistent, and then a reliever. I don't know
Speaker 1: if that trade quite matches up for me. Help It
Speaker 1: would help the Maritors this season, I don't think it
Speaker 1: helps them in the seasons going forward. It might impact
Speaker 1: their ability to sign some of their own better players.
Speaker 2: I think agreed, you know what, we need some positivity
Speaker 2: on this podcast. So let me let me twist this
Speaker 2: up a little bit, Xander, do me a favor. Take
Speaker 2: that trade proposal. Take everybody you just listed for the Mariners,
Speaker 2: send them to Pittsburgh for.
Speaker 1: Paul Skins that I could get down for. I'd say
Speaker 1: same here. Yes, it's Terrek Skouoble, except to get more control. Correct?
Speaker 1: Have we not thought of this before?
Speaker 2: And not a Boris guy a le? He's not yet,
Speaker 2: not yet?
Speaker 1: Fair point. Speaking of positivity, alex is trying to get
Speaker 1: some positivity into us. He has a two part question.
Speaker 1: Part number one is what has been our favorite moment
Speaker 1: of the Mariner's first half of this season?
Speaker 2: I wish there was more. But the one I wrote
Speaker 2: down is Colt Emerson's first big league homer. That was
Speaker 2: pretty cool. Hitting it over Kalnick's head. That was pretty cool.
Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. I literally pulled up the
Speaker 1: Mariner's schedule and was looking at all the games. I'm like,
Speaker 1: is there a moment in here I can I can
Speaker 1: just celebrate? Is there one single moment? I'm like, Man,
Speaker 1: it is tough. It's tough to pick out. So that's
Speaker 1: why I ended up with Colts. And we were really
Speaker 1: excited for Colt that he got called up and it
Speaker 1: was a bit of a surprise. So to see him
Speaker 1: come up and hit that home run over Jared's hat,
Speaker 1: I thought, I think that's the most Maybe giddy's the
Speaker 1: wrong word, but excited to start a podcast this season
Speaker 1: in a positive sense? Was was that one? Yeah? And
Speaker 1: then the second part of Alex's question is a bit
Speaker 1: of a niche one for me. If the Mariners were
Speaker 1: an F one team, who would I say they're performing
Speaker 1: closest to the season. I'm not going to go on
Speaker 1: that long because I know this is a Mariner's podcast.
Speaker 1: I would say they are closest to Alpine and the
Speaker 1: main reason I chowed this chos slow. Let me know
Speaker 1: if you've heard this before. So in the middle of
Speaker 1: last season, Alpine's team principal, which is like their GM,
Speaker 1: resigned and then an F one legend took over.
Speaker 2: Now, was said legend actually good or was he twenty
Speaker 2: he was historically? Yes, okay, but here's my question. Was
Speaker 2: he actually good or was he twenty percent below league
Speaker 2: average for his career as a driver.
Speaker 1: I don't remember how he was as a driver, but
Speaker 1: as a team principal he was very good.
Speaker 2: Oh well, that's what does James Franco say in the interview? Same,
Speaker 2: same but different. I think that's about right.
Speaker 1: He's not the same personality wise as Dan. But when
Speaker 1: I was like looking at when I was trying to
Speaker 1: find an answer to this question, I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it. Yeah, that's it right there. And Dan Alpin's
Speaker 1: like middle of the pack, which is right where the
Speaker 1: Mariners are, middle of the pack. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Again, one fact, one fact, Dan Wilson is in the
Speaker 2: Mariners Hall of Fame with an eighty WRC plus for
Speaker 2: his career, he was twenty percent ple a league average.
Speaker 2: Just facts, no opinion, just facts.
Speaker 1: Okay. Cameron Lywell on Patreon is wondering, did Lyle curse
Speaker 1: Kyle Tucker?
Speaker 3: Fuck?
Speaker 2: No, he cursed himself by not coming to the MS.
Speaker 2: I think it's that simple.
Speaker 1: Let's say what if? What if we placed too high
Speaker 1: of expectations on him? He was overwhelmed by the free
Speaker 1: agent process and the courting from the Marine Layer Podcast
Speaker 1: to come to Seattle that he decided he just in
Speaker 1: a flash decided to sign with the Dodgers and he's
Speaker 1: not been able to mentally recover ever since.
Speaker 2: I like that spin zone.
Speaker 1: Yep, Yeah, let's go with that.
Speaker 2: Because it has not been smooth sailing for him in
Speaker 2: LA so far, Dodgers fans essentially already want him gone,
Speaker 2: which is absurd. We have some Dodgers fans that are like,
Speaker 2: can you take him off my team? And I'm like, yes,
Speaker 2: I can't take him off your team happily in fact.
Speaker 2: But listen, Kyle, doors always open, you are always welcome,
Speaker 2: and if you ever become a Mariner, you have a
Speaker 2: free spot anywhere, anytime, any place on the Marine Layer
Speaker 2: Pod literally anywhere.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: Jevin on Patreon asks what's your guys' opinion on trading
Speaker 1: for Luisa Rise and having him play a utility infield
Speaker 1: slash dhroll.
Speaker 2: So this is where you get into some issues about
Speaker 2: what this trade deadline's gonna present, because there's just not
Speaker 2: enough right here handed bats available. Luisa Rise is a
Speaker 2: left handed bat who does hit lefty or who does
Speaker 2: hit righty's better than lefties, and he's too similar in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways to other guys in this roster.
Speaker 2: Not the offensive profile because obviously he's known for being
Speaker 2: a very contact oriented guy who doesn't strike out. But
Speaker 2: it's another unathletic left handed bat who I know you're
Speaker 2: throwing out the idea of him being a utility player,
Speaker 2: but Luisa Rise has only played second base this year,
Speaker 2: and given how his defense has been for the better
Speaker 2: part of his career, which is nothing short of horrendous,
Speaker 2: I don't think I want him moving around the infield.
Speaker 1: And you can't have him DH because then whose roles
Speaker 1: he taking? He's taking dom Can Zone's role.
Speaker 2: Right That doesn't work, And there's a reason I'm not
Speaker 2: much of a fan of a Rise's game because he
Speaker 2: has no defensive ability, no speed, he doesn't walk, He
Speaker 2: literally only hit singles. I don't think that's that valuable
Speaker 2: a baseball player.
Speaker 1: And ask yourself this question, do you think it's more
Speaker 1: valuable to play Luisa Rise to the final two months
Speaker 1: of the season than it is Cole Young? Because if
Speaker 1: Luise A. Rise is not dhing and he's not a
Speaker 1: utility player, he's gonna be taking Cole Young's spot right,
Speaker 1: and that is worth it.
Speaker 2: No, Cole Young has been way too good defensively. Arise
Speaker 2: has hit left handed pitching decent this year. He's got
Speaker 2: a one to twelve WRC plus against lefties, But I
Speaker 2: don't think that overtakes him playing second base over Cole Young. Which,
Speaker 2: by the way, let me just debunk this before we
Speaker 2: get any comments about it. I know some of you
Speaker 2: are probably gonna read off what arises defensive metrics are
Speaker 2: this year fake news.
Speaker 1: There is no world where.
Speaker 2: I believe Louisa Rise has actually been a good defender
Speaker 2: this year.
Speaker 1: I just don't.
Speaker 2: He's been horrendous his entire career. He's only gotten older.
Speaker 2: Like usually, I'm always, always, always bought into the numbers. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just don't buy it with Louisa Rise. They're like,
Speaker 2: there's no way you can tell me that guy's a
Speaker 2: good defender.
Speaker 1: I'm also gonna say, if we're trying to go out
Speaker 1: there and we're trying to solve the Mariners' issues against
Speaker 1: left handed pitching, trading for a lefty bat is not
Speaker 1: going to be the solution unless his name is Juan Soto.
Speaker 1: It's not solving anything like that. Yeah, you're right now.
Speaker 1: You organized has been fine against lefties. He's not solving
Speaker 1: the Mariners' issues against lefties, and he creates a lot
Speaker 1: of other headaches as well.
Speaker 2: I mean, there are some other left handed bats you
Speaker 2: could trade for. That Otani guy might help. That Jordan
Speaker 2: guy might help, That James Wood guy might help.
Speaker 1: Who am I missing?
Speaker 2: Matt Olsen might help, Kurts might help. There are some
Speaker 2: lefties you could trade for. You think any of those
Speaker 2: guys are available, they should call about that.
Speaker 1: Do you think any of them would get traded for Las?
Speaker 2: If they did, you'd have legitimate Mariners fans pissed off
Speaker 2: that they traded Las for Kurtz or somebody legitimate, like
Speaker 2: they've be legitimately angry.
Speaker 1: Imagine Laz alastly. I love Laz, but I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: make this comparison here. We're gonna say, imagine Laz, but
Speaker 1: he hits that those home runs in the big leagues
Speaker 1: and he doesn't strike out as much. That's pretty much
Speaker 1: Nick Kurtz.
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen again, we love Laz because he has been
Speaker 2: awesome ever since we've gotten to know him a little bit.
Speaker 2: But I want to say, whoever the scout was out
Speaker 2: there who gave him the Yordon comp back when he
Speaker 2: was seventeen, like, retire because you just did an entire
Speaker 2: fan base of disservice by putting that comp out there.
Speaker 2: He's not the same hitter as Yord on it. It's
Speaker 2: like Yordon never struck out like this.
Speaker 1: No he did not. Uh let me say this as well.
Speaker 1: When it comes to the idea of the Mariners fixing
Speaker 1: their offense against lefties at this deadline, the fix is
Speaker 1: not gonna come from the outside. Like the fix is
Speaker 1: either gonna come from the inside or it's not happening
Speaker 1: this year. And the fixes names are like we'll get
Speaker 1: to them at the end, But Julio Rodriguez and cow Raley,
Speaker 1: that's the fix. If those two heat up and start
Speaker 1: dominating lefties, than the Mariner's lineup's gonna look a whole
Speaker 1: lot better against lefties.
Speaker 2: You could add Josh Naylor to that too, maybe not
Speaker 2: as much against lefties, but overall. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 2: you can put it like this. You can go get
Speaker 2: reinforcements that will augment the roster, but it's not gonna
Speaker 2: fix the roster. There's no bat on this market that
Speaker 2: can truly fix the roster. Even Byron Buxton. He'd do
Speaker 2: a hell of a lot, but he can't fix everything.
Speaker 1: No, he cannot. A next question comes from Robert on Patreon.
Speaker 1: Robert's question is is there a Staton Baseball for how
Speaker 1: often a team makes a mediocre pitcher on the opposing
Speaker 1: team look like an absolute ace.
Speaker 2: I don't think so, unless you just created the Seattle
Speaker 2: Mariners stat.
Speaker 1: Maybe one of these days someone will fumble around with
Speaker 1: an AI tool enough to like to put in an
Speaker 1: algorithm of like a pitcher with like either whatever stat
Speaker 1: they're using to qualify mediocre, like either era or war,
Speaker 1: or combined with like strikeout and walk rate, and then
Speaker 1: how many good performances he has versus like said team.
Speaker 1: That's probably how you'd have to cook that up. Mm hmm. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds about it, right, do we think Roberts referring
Speaker 1: to Braxton Ashcraft, who cooked up the Mariners on Tuesday.
Speaker 2: Well, I hope not, because Braxton Ashcraft currently has a
Speaker 2: chance to get into the All Star Game. He's been
Speaker 2: really good.
Speaker 1: First career, he hasn't been great, but this year, yeah,
Speaker 1: this year has been insane. Yeah, yeah, all right. Last
Speaker 1: question comes from David on Patreon. David's question is I'm
Speaker 1: so tired of this offense not scoring. At some point,
Speaker 1: don't Calan Julio as team leaders have to just put
Speaker 1: this team on their backs and carry them offensively.
Speaker 2: By the way, I think you might be thinking of
Speaker 2: the different and Ashcraft. I think he might be thinking
Speaker 2: of Graham Ashcraft from the Reds because, oh I.
Speaker 1: Am because I was h was on my fantasy team
Speaker 1: last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say brax at ashcrafts only in
Speaker 2: his second big league year and he's been damn good.
Speaker 1: I had Graham Ashcraft on my fantasy team last year.
Speaker 1: That would explain a lot.
Speaker 2: Confu Um, he's tired of the Mariners offense and waiting
Speaker 2: for Julio and Cal to fix it.
Speaker 1: That's how you just read that question. At some point,
Speaker 1: don't Julio and Cal have to put this team on
Speaker 1: their backs and carry them offensively.
Speaker 2: That's essentially what you were just saying a minute ago.
Speaker 2: There's not going to be a true fix that comes
Speaker 2: from the outside of this trade deadline. There can be reinforcements,
Speaker 2: but not the fix. The fix is gonna be Julio
Speaker 2: Cal Naylor. Either those guys are going to get it
Speaker 2: going and drive this team offensively, or they're not gonna
Speaker 2: make the playoffs.
Speaker 1: Slash.
Speaker 2: They'll make the playoffs and get bounced very early, very fast.
Speaker 1: The expectation in this offseason when you signed Rob Refsnider
Speaker 1: to hit lefties was never re Snyder is going to
Speaker 1: carry this lineup against lefties. It was Rob ref Snedder
Speaker 1: is going to make this lineup even longer against lefties. Because,
Speaker 1: by the way, we have two of the best right
Speaker 1: handed hitters in baseball, and Julio Rodriguez and Cal rally
Speaker 1: to mash lefties, and Randy Rose Raino Randy Stunn his
Speaker 1: job this year, those other two have not. The lineup
Speaker 1: looks so much different if even without Rob Refsneedder doing
Speaker 1: a single thing, if Julio and Cal are dominating in
Speaker 1: that lineup, it just looks so much different. And as
Speaker 1: we seemingly talk about every single season. You can add
Speaker 1: around the margins all you want, but this is where
Speaker 1: your money is allocated. This is what these players have
Speaker 1: shown you they can be. And unless they are that,
Speaker 1: it's just really difficult for this lineup, especially to reach
Speaker 1: its potential without those two guys doing what they do. Yeah, agreed.
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any other way to really put it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: good send of mailbag questions. I say it every week,
Speaker 2: but they really are. People bring it, People have good questions.
Speaker 2: People want trade ideas thrown out there, and I certainly
Speaker 2: can't blame them when you start getting too a month
Speaker 2: before the trade deadline and team scuffling. You want to
Speaker 2: hear about how things could potentially get fixed or at
Speaker 2: least bettered. And I welcome all of it because we
Speaker 2: love hearing the creativity. We love hearing the ideas, and
Speaker 2: we say it every week. You want your mail bag
Speaker 2: question answered, you can sign up for our Patreon. We'd
Speaker 2: love to have you and we'll answer your question.
Speaker 1: And now's the best time of year four too, because
Speaker 1: we have draft and deadline coming up, which are two
Speaker 1: very popular mail bag topics. As we go forward, the
Speaker 1: next couple of weeks, So the draft will be in
Speaker 1: about three weeks.
Speaker 2: Two weeks we'll be there.
Speaker 1: To no, three weeks, yeah, three weeks.
Speaker 2: We'll be there for it in Philly or at least nearby.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be nearby in Philly. And then the deadline
Speaker 1: will be a couple weeks after that as well. So
Speaker 1: it's a good time if you want to get your
Speaker 1: questions answered. It has been as much as again, we
Speaker 1: love the submissions on every platform, but Patreon does get priorities,
Speaker 1: so if you want those answered, that's the place to go. Yes,
Speaker 1: it is all right.
Speaker 2: That just about wraps up this edition of the Marine
Speaker 2: Layer podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want
Speaker 2: to listen to the full form podcast, you can do
Speaker 2: so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to
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Speaker 2: can find us on our website marine layerpod dot com.
Speaker 1: Merch is all there.
Speaker 2: That's our podcast.
Speaker 1: Merch.
Speaker 2: Patreon's there, all of our episodes are there again. That's
Speaker 2: over at marine layerpod dot com. And then on social media,
Speaker 2: we're everywhere. We're on basically every social media platform and
Speaker 2: we're posting content every single day at Marine Layer Pod.
Speaker 1: That's TJ.
Speaker 2: I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in.
Speaker 2: We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: Sta