Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.
Speaker 1: For some people, destiny arrives early, hands them a map,
Speaker 1: and clears a path toward the future. For others, destiny
Speaker 1: shows up later while they're still kicking around in the woods.
Speaker 1: My guests today, Dick Cavin and Kristen wigg took two
Speaker 1: very different journeys, but both ended up right where they
Speaker 1: were meant to be. As a little boy, Dick Cavitt
Speaker 1: loved to talk. A month ago on this stable and
Speaker 1: I was going through old envelopes of stuff, I found
Speaker 1: three report cards. Dick Miss learned to control his talking
Speaker 1: is on two of them. Dick Miss learned to let
Speaker 1: others talk occasionally. One of the wittier ones UH put down.
Speaker 1: And when his family finally got a television, he fell
Speaker 1: in love with that too. It was only a matter
Speaker 1: of time before Cavin would combine the two with a
Speaker 1: talk show that generated some of the medium's greatest moments.
Speaker 1: That come didn't kiss me then when you came out?
Speaker 1: If I'm so well, let's see this is the third show.
Speaker 1: By the fifth show, we'll go to another hell of
Speaker 1: a kiss. I come out. But let's say you happened
Speaker 1: to meet my first guest, Kristen Wigg when she was
Speaker 1: in college. If you brought up the idea of her acting,
Speaker 1: let alone being on Saturday Night Live, she'd probably stare
Speaker 1: at you blankly. Yet Lauren Michaels has called Wig one
Speaker 1: of the best performers in SNL history. She has changed
Speaker 1: the conversation about women in comedy. So it's hard to
Speaker 1: believe Whigg's career almost didn't happen. I was an art major.
Speaker 1: It wasn't really for me. I was kind of in
Speaker 1: my I hate the word party phase. I hate that word.
Speaker 1: I was having fun, I guess at that time, and
Speaker 1: I I was taking it easy. And then I didn't
Speaker 1: really know what I was having, Like what am I
Speaker 1: going to do with my life? You're in your ring
Speaker 1: ding ding peg. I've never used that term, but I'm
Speaker 1: going to And then I went back to Rochester because
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. And then
Speaker 1: I just started like taking classes at the local community college.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, I want to travel art
Speaker 1: art classes and there's no performance element of you doing
Speaker 1: and more people saying to you, God, you're funny. I
Speaker 1: don't think people wake up when they're twenty three. You
Speaker 1: know what, I never really did plays. I mean, if
Speaker 1: I had to give a speech and class, I would
Speaker 1: try anything to get out of it. I hated talking
Speaker 1: in front of people. I still actually don't really like
Speaker 1: doing that. If I myself and it's a group of people,
Speaker 1: it still makes me nervous. Anyway, after I was back
Speaker 1: in Rochester, I did a Knoll semester. Do you know
Speaker 1: what that is? It's like outward bound, where you like,
Speaker 1: live outside and learned. Is it like meaningful or is
Speaker 1: it ring ding ding? No, it's meaningful. People are searching.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, of course for three months searching. There was
Speaker 1: a little bit of that. So it's it's cool to
Speaker 1: what knowles National Outdoor Leadership School. You're laughing in me,
Speaker 1: it's like outward found leadership. Yeah. It was like you
Speaker 1: learn how to live outside and like you and if
Speaker 1: you get lost in the woods, like I wouldn't know
Speaker 1: what to do. And if I was with you, I
Speaker 1: would bring up this conversation and say you're on your
Speaker 1: own get lost. Would be in the hotel watching Bride's
Speaker 1: Maid pay per view. Anyway, long story short. After that,
Speaker 1: went back to Rochester, and then applied to the University
Speaker 1: of Arizona. Went there for a year. Why there, Um
Speaker 1: it was a boyfriend thing, okay, and then you're pretty
Speaker 1: normal kid up until now. Pretty normal. Yeah, And then
Speaker 1: then I took an acting class. Where at University of Arizona,
Speaker 1: my major was studio art and you could pick three
Speaker 1: different types of art for that major, and it was
Speaker 1: like sculpture, painting, and I just tried this class called
Speaker 1: performance Art, which was very like writing poems and doing
Speaker 1: kind of yes, like very weird light changes and things
Speaker 1: like that. It was literally acting one on one that
Speaker 1: was class one class, and I was terrified to take
Speaker 1: it because I, like I said, I hate standing up
Speaker 1: in front of people and performing. But something about this
Speaker 1: class we learned about improv and my teacher was really supportive,
Speaker 1: and at the end of the class he was just like,
Speaker 1: have you ever considered doing this? And I was like, oh, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: it was my teacher. Yeah. I just kept thinking about it,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't really happy there. I didn't really like
Speaker 1: the art program wasn't really for me. I don't want
Speaker 1: to say I had an epiphany, but I did have
Speaker 1: one of those moments where I was like looking at
Speaker 1: myself in the mirror, and I was like, what are
Speaker 1: you doing? What do you want to do? If you
Speaker 1: could do anything in this world, what would it be?
Speaker 1: And I was like, I want to move to l
Speaker 1: A and try to be an actor, which was crazy,
Speaker 1: but I didn't stop myself. I packed my car like
Speaker 1: the next day, and my roommate at the time in
Speaker 1: Arizona lived in really hills and she said I could
Speaker 1: come stay with her. Started flowing in that direction. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't tell my parents that I was leaving Arizona,
Speaker 1: and I just kept saying, God, it's really hot here.
Speaker 1: There's so much sand everywhere, exactly West Hollywood, Arizona. UM.
Speaker 1: And when you got there, how quickly did you get
Speaker 1: into the groundlings thing? Not quickly because I moved there
Speaker 1: and I was like, I need to get don't you
Speaker 1: kind you were kind of creeping up on this show.
Speaker 1: I got there and I was like, what is it?
Speaker 1: Was a piv. I got there and I was like,
Speaker 1: what am I doing? Because l A is a city
Speaker 1: of actors and performers and writers and filmmakers for the
Speaker 1: most part, I mean, that's where they all go. And
Speaker 1: I had zero experience. I wasn't you know, nineteen and
Speaker 1: I just got a job and wasn't really doing anything
Speaker 1: doing one I worked at anthropology anthropology, yeah, and I
Speaker 1: did like, were you security? I wasn't security, No, but
Speaker 1: I did a lot of visual stuff because of my
Speaker 1: art background and to help with like the you know,
Speaker 1: displays and stuff. But when you say you weren't sure
Speaker 1: what you were doing, there's something about you in the
Speaker 1: time I've known you and been around you where you're
Speaker 1: still kind of that way. Oh yeah, I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm ever going to figure it out. I don't know,
Speaker 1: do you ever? I don't know. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: that there's two types of people in the business that
Speaker 1: I've met. That is the ones that have that very
Speaker 1: Mickey Rooney kind of I'm going to be in show business,
Speaker 1: you know, since they're kids and they just wanted to eat, sleep,
Speaker 1: and drink it. Then there's people who are, if not accidental,
Speaker 1: there's certainly have a sense that they're visiting I'll do
Speaker 1: this for now, you know. Yeah, I love performing, but
Speaker 1: there's such a big part of me that's like, don't
Speaker 1: look at me, do you know what I mean? It's
Speaker 1: hard to find that balance. I think also like people
Speaker 1: assume if you're an actor that you just like walk
Speaker 1: into a room and you're like, hello, listen to this story.
Speaker 1: I want everyone to gather ut And the exact opposite.
Speaker 1: If I'm in a room full of people and someone
Speaker 1: says like, hey, Kristen, what happened at that thing, I'll
Speaker 1: just be like, oh, I'll start sweating and your drinking.
Speaker 1: Going to the dinner and someone else does all the talking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why I like going to dinner with you. But
Speaker 1: so when you're there and you get into the groundlings,
Speaker 1: groundings opened everything up. How So because for you you're
Speaker 1: thinking acting and it was a performing on class. You
Speaker 1: said I'm gonna go to ELI to be an actress.
Speaker 1: And do you feel that you crossed the line and
Speaker 1: it was I'm a comedian or I'm a comedy actress.
Speaker 1: You never felt that way. No, I think it was
Speaker 1: it was improv It was watching people be on stage
Speaker 1: acting without a script. There was something in me that
Speaker 1: was like, I want to do that. I know that
Speaker 1: I can do that. For some reason, it was less
Speaker 1: scary to me than having words in front of me.
Speaker 1: Because I think when you're handed a scrip up, you
Speaker 1: know that you're supposed to do it in a certain way,
Speaker 1: and people will think like, how is she reading this?
Speaker 1: But when you're improvising, there's nothing to compare it to
Speaker 1: and you can do whatever. Yeah. But when I started
Speaker 1: taking classes at the Groundlings and taking improv it was
Speaker 1: like something just like clicked and I felt like, all,
Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. And but at
Speaker 1: the same time, did you get a sense of what
Speaker 1: you're doing? It was working. You were pretty good at it.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I think so, but you were good No,
Speaker 1: I mean it was something. It was nice to have
Speaker 1: that thing that I knew that I was good at finally,
Speaker 1: besides art, which is very personal and quiet, and you know,
Speaker 1: that was just sort of something I did by myself.
Speaker 1: You don't talk to anybody when you're drawing or painting.
Speaker 1: It's very um isolating. And for me, doing the Groundlings
Speaker 1: was the exact opposite of that, because it's such a
Speaker 1: commune any and you're you improvise with other people and
Speaker 1: you have to connect with other people to make it work.
Speaker 1: Your audition to get in it's like a school. I mean,
Speaker 1: you have to go and take the first class, and
Speaker 1: then after the first class, your teacher tells you if
Speaker 1: you can move on, or if you should repeat it,
Speaker 1: or if this isn't for you, and then you just
Speaker 1: keep going. And then that's like where I learned how
Speaker 1: to write, was at the ground Links. And then ground
Speaker 1: Links was how long? Probably like four or five years,
Speaker 1: I guess a few years. Yeah, I mean there's time
Speaker 1: in between some of the levels because there's such a
Speaker 1: long waiting list. And then once I got into the
Speaker 1: main company, I was only in it for a handful
Speaker 1: of months before I got Now, when SNL comes knocking,
Speaker 1: for those we knocked, I don't know if they not. Well,
Speaker 1: we sent it. I'm my manager sent a tape in.
Speaker 1: So you had an agent and a manager. I had
Speaker 1: playing the whole thing out there. I had a manager,
Speaker 1: were working. I'd done a few pilots, I guess, and
Speaker 1: a few commercials. She went cloistered over there on the
Speaker 1: groundlings were you were working. I was, Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I still was had odd jobs. And when you connected
Speaker 1: with the SML people, you sent material to them. Naomi
Speaker 1: sent a tape in and then yes, sorry, my manager,
Speaker 1: Naomi Odenkirk, whose I wouldn't have any of my career
Speaker 1: if it wasn't for her. I used to babysit for her,
Speaker 1: and then I asked her to come see my Groundling
Speaker 1: show and she was like okay, um, but she just
Speaker 1: kind of sent my tape in and then you know,
Speaker 1: you don't hear anything, and then you just get a call.
Speaker 1: We'd liked her to audition this summer. Five characters, three impressions,
Speaker 1: five minutes, and I was like, Okay, I don't really
Speaker 1: have any impressions, so I'm gonna have to. Like I'd
Speaker 1: never done impressions on stage at the Groundlings. It was
Speaker 1: just kind of like joking around with my friends. Flew
Speaker 1: out there. It was the most terrifying experience. Who are
Speaker 1: you doing it for? I don't even remember like eceived darkness.
Speaker 1: I don't even I just remember Lauren was there and
Speaker 1: and Seth and Marcy Tina. You know, I hadn't met it. No.
Speaker 1: I went to New York once when I was in
Speaker 1: eighth grade and like went to go to court to
Speaker 1: like hard rock cafe or something. When I was in
Speaker 1: the eighth grade. You No, I came to New York
Speaker 1: and I was like, what, I bought a Stopwatch because
Speaker 1: I really thought they were going to just turn the
Speaker 1: lights off at five minutes, because they said, like, it's
Speaker 1: five minutes, please don't go over. So I was like electric, Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I practiced in the with like a stop watch,
Speaker 1: trying to get it under five minutes, exactly five minutes.
Speaker 1: And I don't do stand up. So the idea of
Speaker 1: performing by myself, I felt okay. I felt pretty good.
Speaker 1: They laughed a little bit. I was warned, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's going to be quiet, just do it. It's
Speaker 1: a tough crowd, just do it and go. If anything,
Speaker 1: I just felt happy that I did it because I
Speaker 1: was so terrified and shaking. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat,
Speaker 1: and it was over. I didn't hear anything. Then I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, well that was an experience. And then
Speaker 1: like a month and a half later, we got a
Speaker 1: call saying can she come back, you know, if she
Speaker 1: has new stuff or other stuff that would be great too,
Speaker 1: And I was like, I've crammed everything I've ever done
Speaker 1: in that five minutes. But then I just I came
Speaker 1: up with some new stuff, went back and did it again.
Speaker 1: Then they asked me to stay and meet with Lauren.
Speaker 1: I don't remember what I said. I do you have
Speaker 1: kind of an Alzheimer's problem. Now you don't remember a lot.
Speaker 1: I don't remember because I was I was. I do
Speaker 1: have a horrible memory. But also I was so nervous
Speaker 1: and probably didn't say much anyway, and then he was like,
Speaker 1: you know, well we don't really have room for you
Speaker 1: right now, but you know, your audition was great. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was so sweet, and I was like okay, and
Speaker 1: then I left and I said they didn't every I
Speaker 1: was so confused, and then I went home. And then
Speaker 1: the season started, and I remember watching the first show
Speaker 1: and being like, well, I didn't get it. And then
Speaker 1: after the fourth show, we got a call saying can
Speaker 1: she come? So then I started, like fifth show in
Speaker 1: I started, which was even more nerve wracking because you
Speaker 1: get out here. Yeah, had you watched the show prior
Speaker 1: to yeah? Oh yeah, especially high school. I remember it
Speaker 1: was like people would watch it and then remember of
Speaker 1: high school. Yeah, I don't really remember. So you you
Speaker 1: you had an awareness of the show when you were
Speaker 1: a fan of the show, so when they called you
Speaker 1: and asked you to come, you felt nervous. Other than nervous,
Speaker 1: I I don't know if there was even much more
Speaker 1: than nervous. I was happy. I was so happy. I
Speaker 1: was like, this is too good to be true. And
Speaker 1: in my mind, I'm thinking, I'm moving to New York City?
Speaker 1: Where do I live? What if I get there and
Speaker 1: none of my stuff works? You know, it's kind of
Speaker 1: getting SNL is a huge It's a huge deal. I
Speaker 1: mean I jumped up and down. I was I couldn't
Speaker 1: believe it. And I think the difference with SNLS. If
Speaker 1: I had gotten my big break whatever you want to
Speaker 1: call it, if it was a pilot or a TV
Speaker 1: show got picked up or a movie, you kind of
Speaker 1: know what to expect, and with SNL, you have no
Speaker 1: idea written yet hasn't been written, Like what am I
Speaker 1: going to do on the show? How? How does it's live?
Speaker 1: It's an hour and a half. Discovering what to do
Speaker 1: on SNL wouldn't be a problem for Kristen Wig. She
Speaker 1: went on to create some of the most memorable characters
Speaker 1: the show has ever seen. My next film is Tim
Speaker 1: Burton's adaptation of Alice in Wonderland, or what I like
Speaker 1: to call it, Alice and a wonder If someone put
Speaker 1: LSD in my crystal like she inhabited her SNL creations
Speaker 1: with the fierce commitment of a veteran film actor. It's
Speaker 1: no wonder her transition into movies was so smooth. And
Speaker 1: you'll be my man of honor. God, of course I
Speaker 1: will be super fun. It's get really fine. How wouldn't
Speaker 1: Linda review Bridesmaids? But wouldn't Linda side? She'd probably like
Speaker 1: there's too many women in it. Coming up, we'll talk
Speaker 1: with Kristen about SNL and Bridesmaids, which she started and
Speaker 1: co wrote, earning her an Oscar nomination for Best Screenplay. Later,
Speaker 1: I'll be visiting Dick Cavitt at his home for a
Speaker 1: conversation about, among other things, what makes a good conversation.
Speaker 1: My advice to you would be continue in what you're
Speaker 1: doing and change anything. This is Alec Baldwin and you're
Speaker 1: listening to Here's the thing. This is Alec Baldwin, and
Speaker 1: you're listening to Here's the Thing. For the past seven years,
Speaker 1: Kristen Wigg has consistently made me laugh until tears streamed
Speaker 1: down my face. Before SNL, she did a lot of things.
Speaker 1: She was a cad to her, a waiter lady who
Speaker 1: gave out peach samples at a farmer's market, She painted
Speaker 1: retail window displays, and she answered phones at a law
Speaker 1: firm that lasted a day. But Kristen and Saturday Night Live,
Speaker 1: that was a match made to last until this past May,
Speaker 1: when Wigg left the show. Her characters often exercises in juxtaposition.
Speaker 1: Will be sorely missed. The repulsively friendly target cashier, sound screen,
Speaker 1: nose plugs. I wear nose plugs around the house when
Speaker 1: my neighbor cooks Bractoli, the queen of one upsmanship, What
Speaker 1: was your name? The pathologically nervous travel experts. I'm not nervous.
Speaker 1: I just changed my mind about doing this, just kidding,
Speaker 1: didn't change my mind. I changed my clothes. Was just
Speaker 1: getting my clothes and change my addressed and I live it.
Speaker 1: Twenty one jump streight, just kidding at the Jumber one
Speaker 1: two streight, just getting it. Didn't move, but I can
Speaker 1: move my body. Look just kidding. One of the greatest
Speaker 1: gifts from SNL is getting out of my comfort zone.
Speaker 1: I realized, I think Lauren realized probably the first handful
Speaker 1: of years that I was there. Most of my characters
Speaker 1: were ladies in their forties with like short hair and
Speaker 1: weird sweaters that nobody Barbara Bush, no one wanted at
Speaker 1: the dinner party. And the good thing about SNL for
Speaker 1: me creative least to think, Okay, I'm comfortable enough, I
Speaker 1: really want to try something that's not, you know, something
Speaker 1: that I normally do. And that's when I actually first
Speaker 1: came up with the character um Shanna. One time, I
Speaker 1: need a bunch of peanuts and I had a pain
Speaker 1: you're made Billy button. So the actor to me needed
Speaker 1: to still simple and I need to put in the
Speaker 1: Daney's cutest little void cup, the one that's like sexy
Speaker 1: but then does like gross things. Because I was like,
Speaker 1: I really want to write a character that looks kind
Speaker 1: of good but blank. And that's kind of where the
Speaker 1: Flirting Lady came from too. I was like, I just
Speaker 1: want to try, you know, I didn't really know what
Speaker 1: that was going to be. I mean, none of it
Speaker 1: was really on the page when we wrote it. But
Speaker 1: for you, do you feel like, when there's a quotient
Speaker 1: of a character which is a sensuous quotient and you're
Speaker 1: sending it up, do you realize that you could walk
Speaker 1: out the door tomorrow and probably play that character for
Speaker 1: real in a straight film. I mean, have you ever
Speaker 1: wanted to do play a leading lady in a dramatic
Speaker 1: film a love story? Oh? Yeah, period film. I would
Speaker 1: love to do that straight film. Yes, I hope, I
Speaker 1: hope I get the opportunity to do that. I was
Speaker 1: just actually talking to someone about this the other day
Speaker 1: that the audience very quickly puts you in uh folder,
Speaker 1: like they know you how they first knew you. I'm
Speaker 1: Kristen from SNL or comedic actress, and people are always
Speaker 1: so surprised when I want to do dramatic stuff. Really
Speaker 1: you really want to do that? Have you had any
Speaker 1: offers for that? Um? I mean there's a couple of
Speaker 1: things that I'm looking at doing next that aren't comedies
Speaker 1: at all. One of them is really not at all,
Speaker 1: and I'm horrible movie. I just want to be in
Speaker 1: like a ton Do you ever want to do a
Speaker 1: harm movie with me? Are you kick a paranormal Blair?
Speaker 1: Which thing? We're just completely Lucy goosey and just cameras
Speaker 1: and we improv we could shoot it in here. We're
Speaker 1: on the radio and then we just hear voice a
Speaker 1: dead announcer who's in here, in locks in here, you know,
Speaker 1: let's talk about that later on. Okay, I love that.
Speaker 1: Let's get ut out. Someone's got to be listening to
Speaker 1: somebody really good with a typewriter, not a computer. So
Speaker 1: you wrote Bridesmaids as if nobody now, okay, Annie, Mama.
Speaker 1: I don't know Annie, but I know you. And there
Speaker 1: really is something in this business when you see somebody
Speaker 1: who is as lovely as you are, and as pleasant
Speaker 1: as you are, and as talented as you are, and
Speaker 1: kind of unassuming. I mean, you're not a very self
Speaker 1: important artist in this business, and then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden you go, wow, you know, you make a movie
Speaker 1: that's just this huge success. We look back on it, now,
Speaker 1: what do you think? When we were making the movie,
Speaker 1: it was like, we wrote this thing, we hope it works.
Speaker 1: Whose idea was it? Everyone's having fun? What's going to happen?
Speaker 1: The original just the idea of the story was Annie's.
Speaker 1: Jedd asked me to write something for myself after I
Speaker 1: did Knocked Up, and he's like, you can write by yourself,
Speaker 1: you can have a writing partner. Most of the sketches
Speaker 1: that I wrote at Groundlings with someone else where with Annie.
Speaker 1: So I just called her and we'd kind of talk
Speaker 1: loosely like someday we should maybe write a movie. But
Speaker 1: that's so daunting. I don't know how to write. He said,
Speaker 1: let's write twenty sketches. Sketches we can do. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then just I kind of put them together. So she
Speaker 1: had this idea and I was in New York, and
Speaker 1: so she actually went to Jed's office and you know,
Speaker 1: I was like, hi, a Manny's our idea, and He's like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: start writing it. So every hiatus I would come to
Speaker 1: l A. We discovered Skype later, but we like to
Speaker 1: do everything together. We're not one of those teams that
Speaker 1: just says like, hey, write this and send it to me.
Speaker 1: We like to do everything together. So you wrote this
Speaker 1: for Judd? Yeah, and then what happened? And then how
Speaker 1: much note did you get from somebody else? Was it
Speaker 1: all like? It was there? We were writing every day
Speaker 1: on set, writing all lines, writing new jokes. Yeah. We
Speaker 1: would have scenes written. He'd be like, okay, write this
Speaker 1: scene again, but maybe this happens, or how about instead
Speaker 1: of these two characters, maybe it's the other two girls
Speaker 1: that are there. So it was constant writing, rewriting every day.
Speaker 1: We would get a packet of scenes from old drafts,
Speaker 1: scenes that we loved, scenes that you know, other people's
Speaker 1: ideas refused to do. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it was
Speaker 1: a lot of writing, a lot of writing, and in
Speaker 1: terms of the casting, it looks to me like you
Speaker 1: got everybody you wanted. True. Yeah. One of the reasons
Speaker 1: why Annie and I wanted to write this movie was
Speaker 1: that we know so many funny women from the groundings,
Speaker 1: and you know, women of those were in the film,
Speaker 1: Wendy and Melissa and mayas a former groundling um Ellie
Speaker 1: and Rose were the only ones that I didn't know.
Speaker 1: But talk about Rose Burne who I saw her at
Speaker 1: the SAG Awards and of course she looks Yeah, I
Speaker 1: saw the SAG Awards, and she definitely is dear in
Speaker 1: the headlights when you meet her. She's very sweet, but
Speaker 1: she is divine and she's so game. Do you find
Speaker 1: that all you need to be as a good actor
Speaker 1: to get the common anything or don't there something special
Speaker 1: to comedy? I think you just said, I mean, to
Speaker 1: be game, you have to be willing to not look good,
Speaker 1: to put it out there, poke fun at yourself. And
Speaker 1: Rose is like she has no improv experience and she
Speaker 1: improvised like crazy in this movie. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think she's played cotillion kind of broad. It's we've seen
Speaker 1: that have a lot of manifestations, but you've got to
Speaker 1: stay with it, you know, you've got to never comment
Speaker 1: on it. And that's what I love was she was
Speaker 1: like it was acting. She's like playing this really a
Speaker 1: stick up her, you know what? Yeah? And Annie, And
Speaker 1: I've always said the Helen character that she played was
Speaker 1: the toughest to figure out because she's this person that
Speaker 1: my character instantly hates, but my best friend is very
Speaker 1: close with her, so you have to see what she
Speaker 1: sees in her too. So Rose was that perfect thing
Speaker 1: of like, oh God, she's driving me crazy, but oh
Speaker 1: I kind of want to hang out with her. And
Speaker 1: she did that women like if men are friends and
Speaker 1: then you have a friend, I can't stand. But with men,
Speaker 1: they understand just don't bring him around, right, But with
Speaker 1: women it's like, you know, you know, come on, yeah,
Speaker 1: bring her over. He's not so bad. Yeah, And then
Speaker 1: she comes over and you're like, Hi, talk about Melissa.
Speaker 1: Melissa at the Groundlings was a little ahead of me.
Speaker 1: From the moment I met her. I just was like
Speaker 1: looked up to her and had never seen anyone in
Speaker 1: my life not only embrace characters like she does, but
Speaker 1: creates them. The stuff that she's done at the Groundlings
Speaker 1: is insane, like shows sold out when she's you know,
Speaker 1: doing her stuff. When she came into audition for this,
Speaker 1: it was absolutely perfect. There's something very maternal about Melissa,
Speaker 1: which was very important in that character. And also she's
Speaker 1: just can I swear on the show? I think of
Speaker 1: a metaphor. Okay, she's effing brilliant. Can I just say that,
Speaker 1: we're like so lucky that she's in the movie. What
Speaker 1: are you doing next? Have you any movies in the can?
Speaker 1: I have one movie that's in the can right now
Speaker 1: called Imogene. I'm a writer in New York. My relationship
Speaker 1: has just ended. Without giving too much away, people think
Speaker 1: that I tried to kill myself and drama. It's it's
Speaker 1: a drama with comedy in it. And then I have
Speaker 1: to be released to a family member when I'm in
Speaker 1: the hospital because they don't have enough room in the hospital,
Speaker 1: and so I have to go home to my mom,
Speaker 1: who in that Benning plays I'm seeing her or talk
Speaker 1: to her, and you know, eight ten years so it's
Speaker 1: sort of going back home, finding out what's important, that
Speaker 1: whole kind of thing. This is a trite question, but
Speaker 1: I often think about this myself, being older than you
Speaker 1: and coming from a different generation. When I would come
Speaker 1: in and I would meet people that were not peers
Speaker 1: of mine, but people that I really admired. But I
Speaker 1: didn't always work with people that were, you know, on
Speaker 1: Turner classic movies, so to speak. I wasn't making movies
Speaker 1: with John Garfield, but the William Holden. But when I
Speaker 1: would meet these people that I deeply admired, it was
Speaker 1: just such an amazingly resonating experience. And on SNL, you've
Speaker 1: got a different person every week, presumably, who are some
Speaker 1: of the ones that are most memorable to you that
Speaker 1: you work with? You were like, I can't believe I'm
Speaker 1: standing here doing my thing with Blank Well SNL side
Speaker 1: of up bending on this movie. I had completely had
Speaker 1: that with her. I couldn't believe I was doing scenes
Speaker 1: with her and she was playing my mother. I mean,
Speaker 1: I can't even just very gifted. Yeah, um my god,
Speaker 1: SNL is like every week, can you think of even
Speaker 1: one or two that you just went holy you no, No,
Speaker 1: come on true um Steve Martin. When I first met him,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, I've I've watched you
Speaker 1: and worshiped you. Yeah, for most of my and that
Speaker 1: was pretty crazy. And DeNiro when he posted it was
Speaker 1: it was amazing. Plus you know what it is because
Speaker 1: you meet people, you go out to parties, whatever, and
Speaker 1: you meet people. But when people come to S and L,
Speaker 1: you're seeing such a different side to them because they're
Speaker 1: not in their element. Some of the more dramatic actors
Speaker 1: don't have comedy experience, so it's interesting to see people
Speaker 1: not in their element come on the show and be
Speaker 1: sort of like, tell me what to do. Kristen's final
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live show was an emotional one. Each cast member,
Speaker 1: one at a time, danced with Kristen Wiggs said she
Speaker 1: would miss SNL in many ways. It's a two parter
Speaker 1: at the people. I'm going to miss seeing all those
Speaker 1: faces every day and what the people bring out in me,
Speaker 1: that creative muscle that you have when you're at SNL.
Speaker 1: You know, it's so fast paced. You're putting a puzzle
Speaker 1: together and it has to be put together by Saturday,
Speaker 1: and being surrounded by creative people and knowing that you're
Speaker 1: all in it together and you're putting on a show,
Speaker 1: pushing this huge boulder together. Every Saturday you do something
Speaker 1: that you're scared to do. I will miss that feeling.
Speaker 1: And of course you have absolutely no prospects whatsoever. I
Speaker 1: really it's a really ballsy move on your part, because
Speaker 1: who the f can hire you? I don't know. I
Speaker 1: may go back to open up a canoe shop? Is
Speaker 1: the goal for you? Films? And it's less kind of
Speaker 1: factory work like TV can be. Yeah, I mean temporarily,
Speaker 1: I mean I I don't know. I don't like the
Speaker 1: word goal because I feel like those are always changing
Speaker 1: for me. You don't like having goals. I don't like
Speaker 1: having goals. That's why, you know, do what I do.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I want to direct, I want to
Speaker 1: live in Paris and paint. I want to do like
Speaker 1: I don't know. I want to do a lot of
Speaker 1: different things, seriously, live in Paris and I don't know?
Speaker 1: You well, maybe but then I live in Paris for
Speaker 1: two months? How great? There? You and I are going
Speaker 1: to have dinner when we talk about the Haunted Studio.
Speaker 1: Maybe that John is going to give us notes on
Speaker 1: we'll get together. Also, we'll have another lunch of separate
Speaker 1: to talk about healthy goal making healthy right, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's not that I don't think you
Speaker 1: should have goals. Let me go back. What I'm saying
Speaker 1: is my life right now is not what I thought
Speaker 1: it would be six months ago. But you never know
Speaker 1: what's going to happen, and it's so day to day
Speaker 1: and I don't know. I just I don't know. But
Speaker 1: I love that you're so blithe about it, but in
Speaker 1: a healthy way where you're like, you know, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: leave myself because that's our straight today. No, I never
Speaker 1: want to stop doing creative things, whatever they may be.
Speaker 1: It's all going well. I can't complain. I'm very happy
Speaker 1: as she should be. Kristin Wig is preparing to star
Speaker 1: and upcoming films directed by Sean Penn, Ben Stiller and
Speaker 1: Aero Morris, and if things go the way one would suspect,
Speaker 1: she'll continue to delight us for as long as My
Speaker 1: Next Guest has. Over the course of nearly five decades
Speaker 1: and television, Dick Cavott has perfected the art of the
Speaker 1: great interview. The Dick Cavitt showed debut in here was
Speaker 1: a small town Nebraska boy with a Yale education. Cultured
Speaker 1: yet unintimidating, thoughtful, honestly, curious, and funny. He had a
Speaker 1: knack for gently driving the conversation to the heart of
Speaker 1: the matter while keeping his guests relaxed. All yours and again,
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, wouldn't it be ridiculous if you didn't.
Speaker 1: Cavot show could book the brightest and often the most
Speaker 1: reclusive celebrities of that time, Katherine Hepburn, John and Yoko, Groucho, Marks, Orson, Wells, Truman, Capote. Eventually,
Speaker 1: Cavitt himself was as admired as his guests. Robert, if
Speaker 1: one more person had told me how many times you've
Speaker 1: terrified interviewers, I wouldn't have been able to do this.
Speaker 1: I don't feel it. I'd terrify interviewers the moral less
Speaker 1: terrifying me. W Reynolds ask him, do it's that root
Speaker 1: in Hollywood Day? Asks? It's all right now, you can
Speaker 1: ask me, you know, I mean, I mean, my teeth
Speaker 1: don't come out. I visited Cavatt at his house in Montauk,
Speaker 1: a place called Tick Hall. I've known Cavatt for several
Speaker 1: years as a neighbor out on Long Island, taken Tick
Speaker 1: Hall sits atop a remote cliff overlooking the Atlantic. The
Speaker 1: views are spectacular. Cavots lived here since the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1: For our listeners, that's sound you're hearing is the rattle
Speaker 1: of the iced tea being delivered into the very attractive employee. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's actually his wife, Martha. His first wife, Carrie Ny,
Speaker 1: died in two thousand six. Eddie and Puff. Cavot got
Speaker 1: his start in show business writing for the greats of
Speaker 1: early television, Jack Parr, MERV Griffin and Johnny Carson. After
Speaker 1: a few years of this, he decided to start writing
Speaker 1: for himself. But first he had to figure out who
Speaker 1: he was. And there's a breakthrough point I had when
Speaker 1: I got what you might call a premise, and I've
Speaker 1: just refound thank god it lost letter from Grautchow saying
Speaker 1: I saw you on the MERV Griffin show the other
Speaker 1: night and got that old feeling. Seriously, he may have said,
Speaker 1: I think you've struck a mother load with your idea
Speaker 1: of being the Nebraska yokel at Yale and that was
Speaker 1: the card you played. Well, Yes, I started thinking what
Speaker 1: you know? Always you here writers right, what they know? Well,
Speaker 1: what's my life? What do I know? I don't have
Speaker 1: an usual large nose, I don't have fun. Him not
Speaker 1: short and fat. I can't play off that him. But
Speaker 1: I did come from the Midwest and go to the
Speaker 1: Ivy League, totally contrasting worlds. There's no in your family. None.
Speaker 1: All three of my parents I also had a stepmother,
Speaker 1: were teachers, and my dad taught high school. And and
Speaker 1: as he always reminded me, when I was going to
Speaker 1: spend some money on something, your mother and I in
Speaker 1: the depression had to decide whether it has spend a
Speaker 1: dime on a loaf of bread or if we could
Speaker 1: go to a movie with it. I can't believe that,
Speaker 1: But that's depression there. That was my Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: every time I go to Comstock, I tried to picture
Speaker 1: where my dad maybe lived and taught, and but he
Speaker 1: was rewarded with nine hundred dollars a year. Now, what
Speaker 1: what was your relationship to conversation? Meaning have you've always
Speaker 1: been the conversationalist back home in Nebraska? And then when
Speaker 1: you went to Yale and a month ago on this
Speaker 1: table and I was going through old envelopes of stuff,
Speaker 1: I found three what do you call report cards from third,
Speaker 1: fourth and fifth grade? Miss Gabus, Ms Fuchs and Mrs Graham,
Speaker 1: And all three of them said, one might imagine how
Speaker 1: far Dick would get if he'd stopped talking in glass,
Speaker 1: you've hit it. Dick has learned to control his talking,
Speaker 1: is on two of them, and Dick mis learned to
Speaker 1: let others talk occasionally, one of the wittier ones put down.
Speaker 1: But you were always someone who was a gift you had, apparently,
Speaker 1: And did you go to Yale undergrad? You do graduate
Speaker 1: school as well, No, undergrad only Sometimes I referred to
Speaker 1: as a drama school graduate. Weren't I Wasn't? I took
Speaker 1: three courses in the drama school while I was an undergraduate,
Speaker 1: directing Miss Welch's speech class, Stage speaking its theory and practice,
Speaker 1: and a theater history class taught by a humorist German.
Speaker 1: If that isn't too redn You mentioned his name When
Speaker 1: I saw what was the name? Alois Nuggler? It was
Speaker 1: it was kind of good. He looked like Rex Harrison
Speaker 1: but spoke like Himmler. Who was my other favorite name?
Speaker 1: You told me the other day, Olah oh Orson Wells
Speaker 1: beautiful beautiful girlfriend. I met in the right in that
Speaker 1: part of the plaza lobby that carry Grant pauses at
Speaker 1: in the beginning of North Benworthwest and Essential, and he said, Dick,
Speaker 1: this is my lady friend, Oya Palin Cashoia Palin Cash,
Speaker 1: And I thought, I don't remember that name. As long
Speaker 1: as god, I'd love to know the details of his
Speaker 1: life in all those years when he'd make a film,
Speaker 1: not quite finish it, move on, live off some countess somewhere,
Speaker 1: and then his next address would be in Spain, and
Speaker 1: the next one would be in Dunkirk, and God, what
Speaker 1: a life, mad strange wasted gigantic amount of talent. Obviously
Speaker 1: not totally waste, because they did a lot of films.
Speaker 1: But in a doctor's office I picked up a national
Speaker 1: a New Republic, and it was an article that began.
Speaker 1: Someday theater historians will have to deal with the problem
Speaker 1: of what Marlon Brando and Orson Welles did to their bodies.
Speaker 1: Any parallels their two careers, the wastedness, the bad choices
Speaker 1: early for the business that they loved to express. When
Speaker 1: I was going to do a television show, I was
Speaker 1: ten years too old for the part. I was forty,
Speaker 1: and they wanted me to do Brick and Cat on
Speaker 1: a hot tin roof. You were ten years to to
Speaker 1: old forty and Brick should be, you know, hovering around
Speaker 1: thirty late twenties. So they wanted me to do this
Speaker 1: for CBS and have Brando play Big Daddy. So I
Speaker 1: contacted him and he says, when would you like to
Speaker 1: get together? I said, I'd like to get together with
Speaker 1: you this week, quite frankly, because I'm leaving for Africa,
Speaker 1: and he said, sure, come over the house on Thursday
Speaker 1: at one o'clock. I went to his house twelve. I
Speaker 1: went to Moholland Drive and had lunch with him for
Speaker 1: nearly four hours at his house, and he talked about
Speaker 1: his weight game and his physical problems. He talked about
Speaker 1: it like it was an air bag, like it just
Speaker 1: like one day. And it wasn't until he was morbidly
Speaker 1: obese did he say, well, maybe I'm not doing so well.
Speaker 1: But when you did the show with him, because I
Speaker 1: watched so many of your shows, he wasn't very terribly fat.
Speaker 1: Then he had a gut. Yeah, he was a little blocky.
Speaker 1: But the funny think about him is there's later Brando,
Speaker 1: you know the very end. And there's him with Larry King,
Speaker 1: and he's very playful and he's very childlike. But with
Speaker 1: you when he was on he seemed very fueral on
Speaker 1: the show? Was he that way off camera? He seemed
Speaker 1: like he was gonna throw a punch any minute now
Speaker 1: I know? And and the alternating with that million dollar
Speaker 1: green that admitted he couldn't cut away from it to
Speaker 1: do a reaction shop. It was so intipnotized by that
Speaker 1: fabulous grand his uh he seemed to have. Other people
Speaker 1: said the show seemed like pulling teeth and what did
Speaker 1: he bring? The dreary Indian zone forward and all the stuff.
Speaker 1: It was a very difficult evening. And if I had
Speaker 1: it to do again, I didn't resist him any except
Speaker 1: at one point, well I got a laugh that he
Speaker 1: didn't get until he heard the audience laugh. It looks
Speaker 1: like when I've seen it back, which was what about
Speaker 1: the success of the movie Godfather? And and he said, uh,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about movies when the audience laughed. That's one
Speaker 1: thing he would talk to a big movie star, ban
Speaker 1: he said, And then he grinned. He gave through that,
Speaker 1: and the amalous grin like I know what that's must
Speaker 1: mean to you. So then I said, how about the
Speaker 1: book The god Father? And he knew to laugh before.
Speaker 1: And the other one was his belittling ice ta rattling,
Speaker 1: belittling of the of the art of acting. And now
Speaker 1: you know anybody can do it. You know. Once he
Speaker 1: said to me, you know your mom said, who pete
Speaker 1: on the toilet seat? And you said, I didn't do it.
Speaker 1: You're acting? Then yeah. I come into his house and
Speaker 1: he says, he says, and we're sitting there and I'm
Speaker 1: completely numb. He comes in the first you. He comes
Speaker 1: in in a mumu and we're in his house. It's
Speaker 1: a very hostinatory moment for me. He looks at me
Speaker 1: and says, uh, you and I are like two dogs
Speaker 1: sniffing each other right now. And he says, I'd like
Speaker 1: to make an arrangement with you, an agreement with you.
Speaker 1: Who are you? Say whatever you want to say, and
Speaker 1: ask me whatever you want to ask me, and I'll
Speaker 1: say whatever I want to say, and I'll ask you
Speaker 1: whatever I want to ask. You will just talk about
Speaker 1: whatever we want to talk about. It'll make us feel
Speaker 1: That is so him. But I know what you mean
Speaker 1: when you first mate him. If you can stop the
Speaker 1: voice in your head saying Jesus Christ. This is Marlon
Speaker 1: Brando that I'm sitting with. And he's so aware that
Speaker 1: my first talk with him was on the phone where
Speaker 1: we are now. In fact, he called I've told you
Speaker 1: what at a certain time, and we talked with the
Speaker 1: sun about fifteen degrees of the horizon until well after
Speaker 1: the moon had written. Coming up after a break. More
Speaker 1: with TV legend Dick Cavitt, a man who knows exactly
Speaker 1: what to do when an interview guest, it is truly awful.
Speaker 1: Be sure you have mel Brooks sitting there. I'm Alec
Speaker 1: Baldwin and here's the thing. Take a listen to our
Speaker 1: archive more unexpected conversations with artists, writers, policymakers and performers.
Speaker 1: If I throw off on this table, is that a problem? Musicians?
Speaker 1: We expect strange behavior from me? How long does this
Speaker 1: go on? By the way, listen to as much as
Speaker 1: you like at Here's the Thing, Dot Org. I'm Alec
Speaker 1: Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. He's a
Speaker 1: television legend, but Dick Cavitt's also acted in movies and
Speaker 1: on Broadway. Hosted a radio show and written several books.
Speaker 1: His latest is a memoir called Talk Show Cave. Its
Speaker 1: recollections of specific episodes and guests are incredibly candid and clear,
Speaker 1: as if they happened yesterday. The bad the good was
Speaker 1: of course always welcome, and I had no reason to
Speaker 1: think that James Mason would be the first person I
Speaker 1: ever had on the show in my daytime. Show was
Speaker 1: so enchantingly charming, talking without any sense of putting on
Speaker 1: the charm that I missed all signals to go to commercial.
Speaker 1: And it was the first time that I broke through
Speaker 1: reading my notes off to the guests, barely able to
Speaker 1: hear what they were saying for reasons of nerves and
Speaker 1: signals that I just missed over their shoulder, and oh
Speaker 1: my god, someone led her to card and took it back,
Speaker 1: and oh god, the guests lips have stopped moving. Um,
Speaker 1: do you have any hobbies? The disappointing guests were writers.
Speaker 1: Now I loved having writers on. I did Boys Dream
Speaker 1: Some Boys Dreams, Uptake and cheever on the same show,
Speaker 1: Chievers Separately, Uptake, Separately, Saw Bellow. I had them. I
Speaker 1: started to say, I had them all who didn't cut
Speaker 1: it as a talk show. But the thing was that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you couldn't believe that this semi articulate person having trouble
Speaker 1: with vocabulary, seemingly and just outlandish, unbelievable things had written
Speaker 1: that glorious prize winning prose that you read. Now. The
Speaker 1: exceptions were, of course Manny and Truman Capodi questionably accurate
Speaker 1: but entertaining yest at all times. You had Olivia on
Speaker 1: the show, correct, Yes, it was a ninety minutes show
Speaker 1: in London, and then I did him again in New York,
Speaker 1: um in the Windham Hotel with with the Olivia Johan playwright.
Speaker 1: So I got two with Olivier. Um, how was that? Well?
Speaker 1: It was? It was fine. He what was so interesting?
Speaker 1: That was fine? It was the opposite of bad, I
Speaker 1: think was what I was drinking. You can't pick on
Speaker 1: a guy's choice of words. I swore to God recently
Speaker 1: that I would never say the word awesome in my life.
Speaker 1: And if we could only make that true everyone in
Speaker 1: the world, that would be swell. That can go along
Speaker 1: with iconic and um closure and like of course and
Speaker 1: a few others. Amazing. We all are saying amazing all
Speaker 1: the time. Now I got five amazings and watching morning
Speaker 1: television for about forty minutes the other day, Amazing guests,
Speaker 1: amzing guests. We have just amazing script. It's just amazing.
Speaker 1: I was amazed, but career amazes. But Olivia was terrific,
Speaker 1: and he was such a clown afterwards, not on the air.
Speaker 1: He could have done so more on the air and
Speaker 1: it would have been wonderful. I think I was probably
Speaker 1: a little too in awe. I didn't say awesome to
Speaker 1: get all the fun out of him that I later
Speaker 1: learned is in there. Who were the people today that
Speaker 1: you sit there and say? God, If I was doing
Speaker 1: it now, that seemed like it could be fun. I
Speaker 1: almost wish you hadn't asked me that, because here's how
Speaker 1: that thought occurred to me. I was on a radio
Speaker 1: showed plugging the book of It was Mark Simon, and
Speaker 1: he said this, you must get cabots DVDs. Uh, there's
Speaker 1: one called Hollywood Grates and and may he may have said,
Speaker 1: tell us who's on it? And I thought, put a
Speaker 1: dirty trick. I won't be able to think of two
Speaker 1: of them now. But I had it sitting there on
Speaker 1: my messy table, and here's who's on it. It has
Speaker 1: all of Katherine Hepburn, Betty Davis, Fredis Stare, Kirk Douglas,
Speaker 1: Lucille Ball, Frank Capra. No Coward Cowardy isn't on that one, dammit.
Speaker 1: That's the disciple went to Robert mitcham Orson Welles, John Houston,
Speaker 1: and Marlon Brando, and I looked at this that I
Speaker 1: mentioned Lucille Ball, and I thought two things. M A,
Speaker 1: am I the only one in this cover of this
Speaker 1: box who's alive? No Kirk Douglas is. But what I
Speaker 1: really thought was who are their counterparts? Now? What list
Speaker 1: of today's grades would include that many redwoods? Even in politics,
Speaker 1: politics writing? Has there anybody authors? And I think we
Speaker 1: live in an age of increasing mediocrity. So you don't
Speaker 1: sit there and say, I would love to have had
Speaker 1: Richard Holbrook on I'd love to have. Oh there are some,
Speaker 1: There are plenty of people. Yeah, yes, Meryl Streep belongs
Speaker 1: to anybody's list of grades soon and and and, but
Speaker 1: I don't think quite so many achieve. Maybe you can't
Speaker 1: be big in the way those people were, These giant
Speaker 1: people who are do they grow redwoods anymore? Do they
Speaker 1: just grow with smaller sequoias or fines controversiis so yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: the media is like a train, you know. I mean
Speaker 1: it used to be a train was a glamorous, gleaming
Speaker 1: thing that wasn't up. Now a train is a filthy yeah,
Speaker 1: when you get in when you can't completely outside show business.
Speaker 1: But when I was a kid, I marveled that Japan
Speaker 1: had a two hundred mile an hour the Shinkansen bullet train,
Speaker 1: and we still have the Long Island Railroad and I'm
Speaker 1: fifty years older. Yeah, it's a great country, that wasn't it.
Speaker 1: Otherwise America it is. Yes, you um, you obviously have
Speaker 1: had your difficulties and you've talked about it. No, No,
Speaker 1: you're looking over yourself like that's somebody else. And I
Speaker 1: know for me, when I was getting divorced and I
Speaker 1: was in the the real native of the whole experience,
Speaker 1: I felt horrible. Everybody gets down, everybody has the blues,
Speaker 1: everybody suffers losses. You can not only have a bad game,
Speaker 1: you can have a bad season. Yeah, but then when
Speaker 1: do you decide that you need help from someone clinically?
Speaker 1: Since memory is affected by depression, there are details like that.
Speaker 1: They're not absolutely sure, but I know at one time
Speaker 1: I knew was that when I boarded the concorde and
Speaker 1: realized I'm not going to be this sick in another
Speaker 1: country and got off and I called my shrink and
Speaker 1: he said, well, you can either get on the next
Speaker 1: plane or go to Colombia. And my staff was already
Speaker 1: over there, and I just said I can't go away
Speaker 1: feeling this horrible. A stewardess took one look at me
Speaker 1: and said, you want to get off. I said yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean she saw whatever it was, it was clear,
Speaker 1: he'll bring it. Me ask you this, Did you work
Speaker 1: during any of this? Were you able to work? I
Speaker 1: had to work. You had to work and work to
Speaker 1: me a bit I can tell you quickie. That involves
Speaker 1: two people we've already named. I was at the Brando
Speaker 1: residence you might have just left one day and I
Speaker 1: told him about taking a show with Olivier in the
Speaker 1: Window hotel or PBS, and I said, I was so
Speaker 1: depressed while doing it, and it's being Olivier made me
Speaker 1: realize how depressed I was, because when I got to
Speaker 1: the hotel and they took me to a room and
Speaker 1: we were going to tape in the room up above,
Speaker 1: I thought Laurence Olivier is one story above me, and
Speaker 1: I don't give a damn. I want to go home
Speaker 1: and get under the rug. And there are some cue cards.
Speaker 1: What do they say, I'll start it over again. How
Speaker 1: can they be so cruel to get me out of
Speaker 1: bed and to do this? And sitting there with the
Speaker 1: Olivier's having read it Pumpter cue card introduction, the chat
Speaker 1: started and I had some notes off him, but I thought,
Speaker 1: this is awful. They're going to come over any moment
Speaker 1: and say, Dick, it's all right, well send them home,
Speaker 1: or we will send you home and their home. You know,
Speaker 1: we'll get them back on another day. This is obviously
Speaker 1: not a good day for you. They thought, rushing through
Speaker 1: my head was they can see I am nuts. My
Speaker 1: brain is cracked. They can see it. I must be
Speaker 1: taking twenty second pauses from when they speak until I do,
Speaker 1: and I must be just hanging there with my head
Speaker 1: a better. They praised my head a little. And Olivier
Speaker 1: is quite quite smart enough in the psychology of performing
Speaker 1: and so on to know that he's kind of ding
Speaker 1: bad on his hands. And this is here. Yeah, Robin,
Speaker 1: my my producer, will come over and say it's all right.
Speaker 1: But I realized I had finished it, and I was
Speaker 1: telling Brando that and he said, I said, how awful
Speaker 1: was And he said to show. I said, oh god,
Speaker 1: you're kidding. No, don't my favor. Come look at it.
Speaker 1: Saffy year later? All right, well longer I was well then,
Speaker 1: So I went home and looked at it and I
Speaker 1: was fine, it's pauses. And I saw him again and
Speaker 1: reported that to him. I said, how did you know
Speaker 1: what is that? I didn't have hesitations. I came right in.
Speaker 1: I looked interested, which I wasn't. My eyes were spark going,
Speaker 1: which I were no reason. And I looked like I
Speaker 1: was having the best time with the Olivier as anyone
Speaker 1: could have with anybody. It's an automotic pilot. I've heard
Speaker 1: the resort to it. A lot takes over. So had
Speaker 1: I stayed at home that day and not taped the Olivier's,
Speaker 1: I would have stayed in bed and could not. If
Speaker 1: I had been taped there, I wouldn't have looked good.
Speaker 1: But some part of us who are in the business
Speaker 1: something won't let you, some crazy way be a total
Speaker 1: mess while you're working. Well, there's two of us, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we have two of those two sods. I saw it
Speaker 1: with Judy Garland, who was I think on my show
Speaker 1: for her last television appearance, the sixty eight daytime show.
Speaker 1: ABC erased them all and used them to take the
Speaker 1: let's make a deal. It might be there's somebody has
Speaker 1: a bumpy home tape of that. She was so wonderful.
Speaker 1: You talk about the tapes, but them I want to
Speaker 1: get back to the you know, whenever you talk about
Speaker 1: these tapes and you got the rights to the ABC,
Speaker 1: there's several several versions of what really happened. I just
Speaker 1: remember being told one day, Dick, they they're going to
Speaker 1: either reuse the tapes or erase them or dump them.
Speaker 1: Would you say, what tapes that once to the ABC
Speaker 1: show and you can have them if you want to
Speaker 1: for sixty dollars? And I thought, well, that's a ludicrous
Speaker 1: amount of money and a guy on my staff unfortunately,
Speaker 1: but he did it quite well. I went through them
Speaker 1: and eliminated those he thought would never be of any
Speaker 1: interest again, and it turned out some of them would
Speaker 1: have been. But I have most all of them. Thank
Speaker 1: god he didn't rely on you for that choice, because
Speaker 1: you would have sent him, well, you can get rid
Speaker 1: of the Olivier because I was Zons throughout the Yeah,
Speaker 1: the throw out that way, I was fine for the
Speaker 1: first or they're able. When you talk about those ABC tapes,
Speaker 1: I in my mind visualize the guys throwing the sled
Speaker 1: on the fire, you know, burning. I see these guys
Speaker 1: in the box of What are we supposed to do
Speaker 1: with these tapes? Charlie, Yeah, somebody said, I don't know,
Speaker 1: that's the Cabin show. I mean, what the hell is that?
Speaker 1: Ray said, throw it in the fire. You're too reel,
Speaker 1: you know. The Cent of Bitches erased most of Johnny
Speaker 1: Carson's New York shows years of the number which I
Speaker 1: was on. I'd love to see them. What's your relationship
Speaker 1: to television now? Any of it? You watch any you like? So?
Speaker 1: I don't associate television with entertainment very much. Umtal total
Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty degrees. When we got television in Nebraska,
Speaker 1: I watched it every evening. I could tell you now, CBS,
Speaker 1: NBC and ABC schedules for every night of the week.
Speaker 1: Back then, I watched everything, and a lot of it
Speaker 1: was good. I wasn't just watching crap. I watched Studio One,
Speaker 1: I watched Robert Montgomery, Philco Theater, the Web, of course,
Speaker 1: Gleason and Variety shows that Sammy Spear and his orchestra,
Speaker 1: Les Brown and his band renowned. And now here's the
Speaker 1: star of our show, Bobo Bad and I Got Goose Pimples.
Speaker 1: Even now you can read Dick Cavits blog a word
Speaker 1: he admits he had to look up before he started
Speaker 1: writing one on the New York Times website. Here's the
Speaker 1: Thing is produced by Emily Botine and Kathy Russo, with
Speaker 1: support from Jim Briggs, Wendy door Ed Herbstman, Melanie Hoops
Speaker 1: and Monica Hopkins. Thanks to Tray k lu Okowski and
Speaker 1: Larry Josephson and the Radio Foundation. I'm Alec Baldwin, m