1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Okay, I love this game. Right before Matt, right before 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: someone tuned in to today's classic episode, they might have 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: had a premonition, a moment of epiphany. They might have thought, 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: am I clairvoyant? And then how odd that this episode, 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: all our classic episodes, would be the one to pop 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: up in your feet today? I know, isn't it weird? 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: Isn't it weird that I know that just before listening 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: to this you took a shower and colored your hair. 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: Isn't that weird? I don't know. You probably didn't expect that, 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: but uh, it's for that's where one person. Isn't that 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: weird that I can tell at least three of you? 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: The keys are in the other jacket you hung it up. Yep, 13 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: Check where you hung up the jacket. Check, that's where 14 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: your keys are. And that SD card you're missing is 15 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: in the small pocket of it's a pair of jeans 16 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: that you put back in your drawer and stuffed crust 17 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: pizza was an inside job. Literally this couple of levels. Yeah, 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: Today's Today's classic episode is about clairvoyance, about the possibility 19 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: of what are collectively known as psychic powers. If you 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: have enjoyed some of our more recent work on things 21 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: like the nature of the mind and cognition, or our 22 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: episodes on the strange science of the quantum realm and dreams. 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: Then this is going to be an awesome episode for you. Uh. 24 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: If you are precog listening to this and you have 25 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 1: proof of psychic powers, then go ahead and email us 26 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: while we're recording the intro for this episode on Friday, 27 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: June right around one in the afternoon, and I've got 28 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: my phone. All right, let's do this from UFOs two 29 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: Ghosts and Government cover Ups. History is writtled with unexplained events. 30 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: You can turn back now or learn stuff they don't 31 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: want you to now. Oh hi, I can't say that 32 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know you were going to be here. After all, 33 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: we are experimenting in the studio right now with psychic powers, 34 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: not psychedelics. No, no, no, no, that's an entirely different 35 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: actual study that you can partake in with psychedelics and 36 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: the mind. But this one we just wanted to see 37 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: who's going to show up and listen to this episode. 38 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: So thanks for being here. We knew you'd be here, 39 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: whoever you are. Um, my name is Ben and I'm 40 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: Mat and we're here with our super producer, Noel, our mascot, 41 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 1: who is a skeleton named after Agents Scully and the 42 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: X Files, which makes this ladies and gentlemen stuff they 43 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. But hey, even if you 44 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: were psychic, you might have already known that. Yeah, that's true, 45 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: you already know all the things we're about to say. 46 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: Who which has got to be a real hassle when 47 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: you're doing small talk at dinner parties and stuff, you 48 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: know you can see the night stretching before you. If 49 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: that is indeed the way that psychic powers work. So 50 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: let's open up today's podcast with a story about a 51 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: scientist named Emmanuel Swedenborg or would that be Sweidenborg. You know, 52 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Well Swedish listeners can correct us if 53 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: and let us know if it is Sweedenborg or Swedenborg. 54 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: But point being, this guy tremendously influential scientists, philosopher um 55 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: and also a theologian and mystic. He believed that he 56 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: had clairvoia abilities, and so did many of his friends. 57 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: Who was born in six so at the age of 58 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: sixty three, he began to experience these dreams and these visions, 59 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: culminating in what became for him a religious experience and epiphany. 60 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: But you can hear various different stories about speed and 61 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: Borg's predilections. Here. One of my favorites as something I 62 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: read as child in a series of time life books 63 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: that maybe only three or four of you guys listening 64 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: will remember. That is Mysteries of the Unknown. Nice you 65 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: remember these. It sounds so familiar, though I don't know 66 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: that I can pinpoint a single story or issue. Well, 67 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: you and I were working together a while back. Gosh, 68 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: this must be maybe three or four years ago now, 69 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: and I caught a wild hair. I went back on 70 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: eBay after watching a commercial from you know, the late 71 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: eighties early nineties about these books on YouTube. I ordered 72 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: all of them. I hunted every single issue book down 73 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: and I had the complete set. It was a childhood 74 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: dream come true. And in one of those books. All 75 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: of these books have titles that will drive the more 76 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: skeptical members of our audience wild with rage, things like 77 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: mystic Places, psychic power, psychic phenomena, and many of these 78 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: seemed related and they overlap, but whatever, I love these things, Matt. 79 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: And one of the stories I read in a book 80 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: called Psychic Powers, had this party it was like a 81 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: dinner party in town in Sweden, and one of the 82 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: guests there all of a sudden got up, walked out, 83 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 1: was increasingly distressed, walked back in the room and said 84 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: that a fire was consuming his neighbor's house and that 85 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: it was going to consume his own house as well, 86 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: and he knew it with certitude. The people in the 87 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: you know, in the room with him, of course, reacted 88 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: a bit skeptically because at this time there was no 89 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: way this man, Emmanuel Swedenborg, could know that a fire 90 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: was consuming his house and they were away for his 91 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: place of residents. Allegedly it was true. So what sweet 92 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: Speed and Board claimed to have experienced here and in 93 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: other instances was clairvoyance, which is a I don't know, 94 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: um kind of inner side I guess, yeah, sure, we 95 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: could just say clairvoyance is anytime you're aware of something 96 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: that happens far away, either in the timeframe or in 97 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: spatial difference. Um. Allegedly, you know, it's one of those 98 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: things that are called psychic powers, which, like you said, 99 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: makes the lights go off in a skeptically minded person, 100 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: because well, there haven't really been any psychic power has 101 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: proven as of yet. Right now you already know what 102 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: a psychic power is if you're listening to this show. 103 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: It's an umbrella term for several different kinds of alleged abilities. 104 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: So he said, one would be clairvoyance. What's another one then, well, 105 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: telekinesis moving, being able to move something physical with your 106 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: brain somehow. Then there would be telepathy, being able to 107 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: hear people's thoughts. I think, I forget what they call it, 108 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: but it's a form of pyrotechnics where you can use 109 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: you can create fire. Pronesis thank you. Um. Then there 110 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: would be what's the one where you're able to, oh, 111 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: psychometry where you would be able to touch something right 112 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: and learn things about orbit Yeah, absorbits, you absorbed the 113 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: memory surrounding it and stuff. I like to think a 114 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: lot of these as being able to if it were 115 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: one day to be proven scientifically somehow that there is 116 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: some kind of uh quick leap into a fourth or 117 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: fifth dimensional understanding that like if a third dimensional being 118 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: could just understand it momentarily or something some kind of 119 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: slip in that reality, I guess, or in that constraint 120 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: on perception. So may be something like climbing a little 121 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: bit higher into the fourth dimension just for a second 122 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: to see the flat circle that is time or something like. Sure, Yeah, 123 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: that's the only way in my head that I could 124 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: imagine it ever becoming an actual thing that was proven. Yeah, 125 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: and there's some there's some interesting things will get into 126 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: here as well about the nature of perception itself. But 127 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: maybe it's better to call this stuff non linear perception 128 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: because it's still experienced through the framework of other human senses, right, 129 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: Like what happens when you have a vision? Yeah, you 130 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: it's almost a dreamlike experience from what I've read, right, Yeah, 131 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: And everybody has had a dream before. So you encounter 132 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: these senses or these experiences through the same sensory inputs 133 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: that you inarguably possessed today. You if you are Speedenborg, 134 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: you hear the fire, you see it burning, you feel 135 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: the temperature, you hear the dreams, and so on. It's 136 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: just not in a way that most scientists would argue 137 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: is based in your perception of the facts, right, Yeah, 138 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: And that's why mainstream science considers these kinds of psychic 139 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: powers or purported powers, and even research into these powers 140 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: as just kind of bunk, and they're dismissed unfortunately or 141 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: fortunately depending on how you think about it. But there 142 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: are a lot of things that are, let's say attributed 143 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: that these things are attributed to one would be a 144 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: misattributed cause, So having some kind of seizure or something 145 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: with your brain, a neurological issue that causes you to 146 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: experience something differently than how you imagine it, or you 147 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: imagine it differently than how it actually is. Sure, there's 148 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: also the idea of misattributing psychic power to a mundane cause, 149 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: such as you know, maybe you had earlier heards some information, 150 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: but you got you heard it, but you retained the information, 151 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: So it sounds like you're reading someone's mind, but where 152 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: you're the only mind you're reading really is your own. 153 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: And you know, that's similar to the idea about UFOs 154 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: being weather balloons. Right, and for some reason you get 155 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: a small concussion and become unconscious for a few moments, 156 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: and in that that time frame where you're unconscious, which 157 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: would only be a few seconds, you you know, your 158 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: brain inspiring so rapidly. It's happened to me before, where 159 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: I was unconscious just for a moment, but I felt 160 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: like I had dreamed for a night or days even 161 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: um and the things that I saw and heard felt 162 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: real to me, but in reality it was just a 163 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: moment where my brain kind of rebooted. And then there's 164 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: also sloppy science. Right. Sure, you can look at inexperimentations, 165 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: if there were poor controls over certain things, or maybe 166 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: there was a confirmation bias in one of the researchers 167 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: that wanted to proove that it's true. You could even 168 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: look at flawed methodology. There are all kinds of things 169 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: that could go wrong inside an experimental setting, right with 170 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: the best of intentions. And this brings us to the 171 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: idea of the third the third pillar that mainstream science 172 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: typically uses to dismiss psychic powers, which might be one 173 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: of the more fun ones for a lot of people, 174 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: the idea of active deception. Oh yeah, you've got to 175 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: love the swindlers and the Charlatan's I always think of 176 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: in particular, and nothing against the guy, but you're re 177 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: Geller and some of the parlor trick mental gymnastics that 178 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: he would do on stage for people, and like what 179 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: the whole bending of the spoon thing. There were a 180 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 1: couple instances where he could, you know, tell you about 181 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: your you're dead loved one or something, and you know, 182 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: the using cold reading and other techniques like this. We've 183 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: seen that it's just something that anyone can do if 184 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: you learn the techniques. Yeah, so cold reading would be 185 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: noticing the minute reactions, typically unconscious, that people have when 186 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: you're speaking to them, which is why sometimes when you 187 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: will see self professed mediums like the Long Island Medium 188 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: or what was that guy's named? John Edwards should be dead? Yeah, yeah, 189 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: to show for a little while, you'll see them guess 190 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: with some pretty open ended things and intently studying the 191 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 1: other person. But despite the dismissal of the mainstream scientific 192 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: world visa VI psychic powers, mainstream America take psychic powers 193 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: as a four granted fact of life from great statistic 194 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: for you here. Yes, them at least believe that it's true. 195 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: They believe at least one type of psychic power is real. 196 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: And this sort of stuff drives the really zealous, self 197 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: righteous types of skeptics crazy and matt They can't seem 198 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: to understand that no matter how rude or loud or 199 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: bullish they are to people, those people still don't seem 200 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: inclined to agree with them. Yeah, I mean, it's a 201 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: tough stance to be hard lined. I mean, yeah, I'm 202 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: you know, I'm playing a little bit because there's a 203 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: touchy subject for people. But the truth of the matter 204 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: is that if you are if you are rude or 205 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: smug or you know, condescending to people, uh, then you 206 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: have to ask yourself if you're really trying to persuade them, 207 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: um to change their opinion or evolve it. Because often 208 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: and listeners, skeptics, true believers like you guys know that 209 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: Matt and I spent a lot of time on the 210 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: internet reading forums from people who say things that I 211 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: will just go out and say, you're bonkers. And then 212 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: and then people who um say things that are you know, 213 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: that are that are clearly clearly plausible. Uh. And and 214 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: on both sides of that spectrum that we're talking about, 215 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: one thing that crops up is that people often have 216 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: a um a bizarrely contentious emotional stake in it. And 217 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: regardless of whether you consider yourself a skeptic or someone 218 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: who has unlocked the hidden mysteries of the psychic mind, 219 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: we can tell you that the way to persuade people 220 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: is to have a conversation with them. No one, you know, no, okay, well, first, 221 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: no one wins an argument on the internet. We know that, 222 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: and uh, and we also know that, Um. The implication 223 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: is is only that something happened to them in their 224 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: childhood and they're mad about it and they want it 225 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: to be your fault. And with that in mind, Ben, 226 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: we have to say this, UM, and we're not gonna 227 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: sugarcoat it. Seriously, there has been no comprehensively accepted scientific 228 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: validation of any kind of these psychic powers, or let's 229 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: call them, like you said, nonlinear perceptions. Yes, there have 230 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: been approximately well by which we mean exactly zero. And 231 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: what do we mean though, you see, you hear all 232 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: those qualifying terms, comprehensively accepted or universally accepted validation of 233 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: this scientific validation? Scientific validation, so something that we could 234 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: quantify that could be empirical. For such a test to 235 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: be accepted, it would have to conform to some very 236 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: rigorous methodology. And you know, a point that becomes sticky 237 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: sometimes is this idea that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, 238 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: which I'm on board with. Um. It Also, it's also 239 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: something that you hear often when UM, someone is making 240 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: a controversial claim, because this is such a third rail 241 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: in in scientific fields that often just asking the question 242 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: would be dangerous for your career, that could invalidate anything 243 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: if you wanted to study. Yeah, which is to me 244 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: really sad and um. You know, it says a lot 245 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: of things about the state of current society, and not 246 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: many of them are good. Yeah, it means the boundaries 247 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: of a lot of these things won't get pushed, but 248 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: it is I do however, with that being said, I 249 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: do agree with the idea that if there is something 250 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: that is extraordinary or or up to this point unproven, 251 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: then yeah, get the paperwork right, get the evidence, compile 252 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: the data. And and another thing. Speaking of this paperwork 253 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: and compiling data, this I think is maybe the most 254 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: important point for any test of psychic powers to be 255 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: universally accepted, to be something that people at M I. 256 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: T and Harvard and um people well, well, most people 257 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: aren't reading MIGHT and Harvard press releases for something that 258 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: John Stewart would talk about on the Daily Show. For 259 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: for it to gain some kind of credibility, it would 260 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: need to be reproducible. And what what do we mean 261 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: when we say that, Well, you'd have to be able 262 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: to have an independent group of people take your methodology, 263 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: your study and reproduce it to the t in a 264 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: completely separate setting with different people. Um. Maybe they'd use 265 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: the same variables and everything, um, but you'd have to 266 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: be able to get the exact same result. Like That's 267 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: that's a very very reasonable thing to ask, and I 268 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: think it's crucial and unfortunately, uh, it has not to 269 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: our knowledge from everything we could find, it has not 270 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: happened yet. And we have talked about psychic powers of 271 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: various types right now. We looked at psychotronics and the 272 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: USSRS attempts to figure out what the heck is going on, 273 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: if there's anything going on, and then projects Stargate in 274 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: the US trying to make psychic soldiers with all various 275 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: different types of psychic abilities. Right, and this has all 276 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: been uh, this is all Ben Skull duggery so far. 277 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: So to be fair, there's a lot of stuff there 278 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: that's still classified. But today we're gonna be talking about 279 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: a very specific type of alleged psychic power. It is 280 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: called clairvoyance. So, Matt, what what is that really? Well, 281 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: it's several things. Uh. One of them is precognition. That's 282 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: the ability to see into the future, to tell when 283 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: something's going to happen and to whom um. Then you've 284 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: got retro cognition, which is the ability to look into 285 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: the past and see something that maybe nobody else would 286 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: have been able to see something a private moment, let's 287 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: say so an example of that would be, Uh, somebody 288 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: is walking through a field in I don't pick a country, Yugoslavia. 289 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: Somebody's walking through field in Yugoslavia, and all of the 290 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: sudden they are struck with this vision of a peasant 291 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: running out of the woods into a into the field, 292 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: and let's say it's the same field, and then digging 293 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: a hole and putting a sack of coins in there, 294 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: and they walk a little further, they see the field 295 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: and they walk right to where the coins are and 296 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: they dig them up. That would be retrocognition, absolutely. I've 297 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: heard it used a lot of times when someone experiences 298 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: the death of someone who perhaps died of violent death, 299 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: and they were able to relive that moment to find 300 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: out who the killer was. I mean, that sounds like 301 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,959 Speaker 1: a horrible power, but it does crop up in fiction fiction. 302 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: It happens all the time. Then the third one is 303 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: remote viewing, and this is the one that US and 304 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union both looked into pretty heavily. And that's 305 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: the ability to, uh, to imagine a place that that someone, 306 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: let's say you're higher up, wants you to imagine where 307 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: some hostages are being held. And you don't know where 308 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: that place is. Nobody knows where that place is your team, 309 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: but you can write just by writing a little sketches 310 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: down on a piece of paper, you visualize the thing, 311 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: and somehow or another you were able to almost astraally 312 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: project yourself to where that place is, draw a picture 313 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: of it, and then you can help your team find 314 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: the guys. And you know, there's, uh, there's a lot 315 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: to be said about that, which will we'll say a 316 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: little bit later because I want to interrupt the flow here, 317 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: But just think of Menu Stereo Goats that film, Yeah, 318 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: and watch it if you haven't. It's pretty fun. There's 319 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: one more, Yes, the final one is the ability to 320 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: communicate with the dead whatever that means. Right, yeah? What 321 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: what does what does that mean exactly? I mean, come on, 322 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: we just talked about it earlier. Um, who who's the 323 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: Long Island Medium, the Long Island Medium, all these people 324 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: who can just tell you what your grandfather is thinking 325 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, and that offends quite a few people 326 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: when they see a medium as some sort of snake 327 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: oil salesman, right uh, and believe that they're exploiting the 328 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: folks that they're claiming to help. Yeah, anytime there's money 329 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: exchanged for that kind of service. Um, frowny face is 330 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: what I would say to me. This is this is 331 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: the one that I am the absolute most skeptical about 332 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: ever happening. And and I'll say why a little bit later, 333 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: but we should go ahead and differentiate between one other thing. 334 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: Many people confuse clairvoyance, the alleged experience of clairvoyance, with 335 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: the very real experience of deja vu. Oh yeah, deja 336 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: vu is a real thing. Uh. The let's say, the 337 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: things that happen in our lives tend to repeat themselves, 338 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: at least in small variations. Right walking by a storefront 339 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: and seeing a thing cat maybe, sure, Or walking by 340 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: and seeing someone in a certain place because that person 341 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: frequents that place very often. And there's always the woman 342 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: in the blue dress with the yellow uh summer hat. Sure, 343 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: whatever you know, and you it's one of those things 344 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: that's tough too to throw away, as hey, This is 345 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: just completely bunk because a lot of people experienced deja vu. 346 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: I'm pretty certain that you have experienced de ja vu. Listener, yes, 347 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: and perhaps maybe experiencing it at this very moment. But 348 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,479 Speaker 1: what is time? Time? Time? There's another thing that many 349 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,959 Speaker 1: many people have had experiences with, and it's the following. So, Matt, 350 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: let's say you have a dream, tell me, tell me 351 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: about the stream. Well, in this dream, I am jogging 352 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: on a treadmill, and I am standing on the treadmill 353 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: is on top of a building in a city that 354 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly where it is, but I'm very 355 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: familiar with it. Uh. And down on the street, I 356 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: see all of these cars going extremely fast on this 357 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: highway and there are no other cars. They're just it's 358 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: this one group of cars and they're all going the 359 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: same direction down this highway, traveling in like a pod 360 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: or And all of a sudden, they just stop. They 361 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: just stop, and there's a light at the very front 362 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: of all the cars flash like a traffic light, or 363 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: it's not, it's not traffic. It's almost this glowing blue 364 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: light that happens, and my treadmill, my treadmill like stops working. 365 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: So Let's see, you have that dream and you remember 366 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: specifically the moment where you look down you see the 367 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: pod of cars moving, the bright light, the blue glow 368 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: rather uh, and then your treadmill stops working and you 369 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: don't think about it, but this image stays with you, 370 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: right and later I guess later in the sense of 371 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: line or time, this stuff is true. Then a week, 372 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: two weeks, a year, twenty years, you're on a treadmill, 373 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: you're in a tall building and you look down and 374 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: you see how that's weird, just a couple of cars, 375 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: and then party goes way as you feel you can 376 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: almost you feel happening. It's the very tip of your 377 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: tongue sensation where you're about to just name the future 378 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: before it occurs for you. And even if it doesn't 379 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: come all the way to fruition, like the blue light 380 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: doesn't happen, the treadmill stops or anything, still, that feeling 381 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: of familiarity is what you would consider deja vu. Yeah, 382 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: And I don't want to invalidate anybody's experiences here, even 383 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: if I will say that, if you believe that you 384 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: have the power to communicate on a routine, consistent basis 385 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: with the dead then you should come contact uh, you 386 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: should contact people among the living who could help you 387 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: learn more about this ability, because you would you could 388 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: be the first person proven to do this. Yeah, it 389 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: would mean probably a lot of lab time, but it 390 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: would be for the greater good of everyone. So we 391 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: talked about these studies, right, these studies of clairvoyance. Let's 392 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit more in depth. So he 393 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: talked about this idea of clairvoyance and these studies of 394 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: psychic powers, and you and I have actually done quite 395 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: a few videos on these. So just to recap, there's 396 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: a guy named Dean radd and I believe was uh. 397 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: He thinks that parapsychology, which is also a name for 398 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: PSI researchers, which is also a name for people who 399 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: are researching psychic powers, which is also a name to 400 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: their opponents for pseudoscience. Raydon believes that parapsychology is just 401 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: as repreat repeat doable as any science. But it's also 402 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 1: subtle and complex. And it's subtle and complex because we 403 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: have an incomplete understanding of it, which can make a 404 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: lot of sense logically, because to me, it's possible that 405 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: there could be some things that we have so little 406 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: information on that we don't really have a way to 407 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: um observe, observer or effectively tested. You know, yeah, exactly. 408 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: I mean it's possible. We have to leave it open 409 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: that it's possible, right, I mean you have to. I 410 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: think that's one of the rules of this planet is 411 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: that you have to leave room that anything is possible. 412 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: Something about Georgia Guidestones episodes in Thole's documentary. Whenever somebody 413 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: says leave room or I always think they're going to say, 414 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 1: leave room for nature, leave room for nature. Well then, 415 00:26:54,400 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: and nature, as we've seen with nature, sometimes it's fairly randomized, 416 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: right odd, yeah, or at least appears so right, Yes, 417 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: it appears. And this is all because of our so 418 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: far limited understanding of a lot of the minute processes 419 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: that that speed nature and time along. We're getting there, 420 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: we're getting closer to a lot of these answers, but 421 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: we've still got a long way to go. Like in 422 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: our video that came out earlier this week, I think 423 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: it was the three things about your brain that no 424 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 1: one understands. Uh. We found that despite living in the 425 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: twenty one centuries we record this, some of the smartest 426 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: neurobiologists in the world are still trying to figure out 427 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: some of the basic cognitive things that happened to you 428 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: every single day, unless you're a robot listening to this now, Yeah, 429 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: every memory that you create, how does it physically become 430 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: a memory? Every every decision you make? What makes it 431 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: for you? Yeah? And does it happen like second before 432 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: you choose to do something, is you're like, how does where? 433 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 1: Where does your consciousness come into free will? That was 434 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating things that you talked about. Ready, 435 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: what is it readiness? Uh, potential, readiness, potential, that's fascinating. Yeah, 436 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: you know, if we could have a little bit of 437 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: tripping music here. So regardless of where you're sitting now 438 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: or walking, you might be working out, you might be 439 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 1: making something to eat, you might be in your car 440 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: on the train. They take a second and and try 441 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: to feel where you and where the world begins. So 442 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: you can feel your clothes, right, if you're wearing clothes, 443 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: you can feel your clothes because those are one of 444 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: the closest things to your body. But then where does 445 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: your body end and where do you begin? Is there 446 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: a division all those neurochemicals and synapsis firing in your brain? 447 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: What part of them is you? How much of that 448 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: stops before you stop? Because we know a person can 449 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: live without legs, we know a person can live without arms. 450 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: We know that people can live without large parts of 451 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: their brains. So what are you that's actually listening to 452 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: this podcast and without understanding what the nature of consciousness 453 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: actually is. It's it's damnably difficult to try to understand 454 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: what consciousness also does. Right. That's yeah, man, this is 455 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that keeps me up at night. 456 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: Uh well a lot of these things that we talked 457 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: about keeping up at night, but this one in particular 458 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: because just trying to nail down what what I the 459 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: thing I big I is? Yeah? Is it? Is? It 460 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: sort of a just an extension of a young Gian 461 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: arc type with the super consciousness really being one what 462 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: was the Bill Hicks quote? Was just one super entity 463 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: continually experiencing itself kind of deal the universe experiencing itself 464 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: just over and over and over again, right, And you know, 465 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: how would we even begin to measure or prove that? Right? Sure? 466 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: So with uh, with the Radon guy, with Dean raiding, 467 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: one thing that he was associated with I believe was 468 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: pair right. These are the guys that United did a 469 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: video on earlier who found or argue they found um. 470 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: What was it? It was a connection between probability and 471 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: a conscious observer and whether or not if let's say, 472 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: I think the experiment was they had ball bearings dropping 473 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: down into where they did little buckets and if you 474 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: they had people it there and consciously want the ball 475 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: bearings to fall in certain buckets or a certain order. 476 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: And they said that they got a measured a measured 477 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: difference and when someone was consciously trying to make it happen. Yeah, 478 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: a measurable effect, not a large one, mind, And they're 479 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: not again, they're not touching or manipulating the thing at all, 480 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: the ball bearings or the box. They're behind glass so 481 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: they can be blown on or something like that. But 482 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: this this stuff, although raiding and the team sort of 483 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: went to went to quantum mechanics as some sort of explanation. 484 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: They looked at non locality, backwards causality and stuff like that. 485 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: They've been heavily criticized by physicists and psychologists, and especially 486 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,719 Speaker 1: physicists who study quantum mechanics because you know, you know 487 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: that those physicists have to be so tired of quantum 488 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: mechanics being whipped out as just the quote unquote scientific 489 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: explanation behind everything. It's a fun word, and it's a 490 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: ridiculously complex subjects And yeah, I can imagine it would 491 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: be quite annoying if someone is just applying your field 492 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: that is so complex to this thing that seems probably 493 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: pretty mundane and has nothing to do with it. And 494 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: we know one of the other big studies that you 495 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: briefly mentioned was Project Stargate. Could you tell me a 496 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: little bit about that. Yeah, it was the idea that 497 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: we I think the conclusion that we came to, and 498 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: we discussed this earlier, was that during the Cold War, 499 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: both sides thought that the other one was, you know, 500 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: making some kind of gains in whatever this psychic soldier 501 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: thing was, and in order to stay ahead of the game, 502 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: you know, ahead of your enemy at least, both sides 503 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: had to put money into this, and they were studying 504 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: all kinds of things, like we said, telekinesis, remote viewing, 505 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: just astro projection, all that kind of stuff, being a 506 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,239 Speaker 1: will to spy, make a superspy essentially um and it 507 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: didn't go so well. At least at least if you 508 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: read some of the reports. But we can't get all 509 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: the information, as you said earlier, and some of it's 510 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: still classified. We we ran into something interesting here because 511 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: for a time people in charge of the program believed 512 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: it was working. And then, you know, you have to 513 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: ask yourself, do they believe it's working because it's a 514 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: solid paycheck, you know what I mean? Or are they 515 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,479 Speaker 1: getting measurable data? This this idea of traveling via the 516 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: mind and using a sketch to depict what you have found, 517 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: is tricky because there's a little bit of subjectivity or 518 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: interpretation there where someone could look at a triangle and say, 519 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, oh, he went to the pyramids or uh, 520 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: oh he went to the top the very tip top 521 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: of the Washington Monument. Right. Um, it's it's difficult, but 522 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: we do know that there was a lot of money 523 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: poured into it, and for time at least people seemed 524 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 1: happy with the results facets of the United States government. 525 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: The most successful of those people was a guy named 526 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 1: Ingo Swan. We also know that Sony researched this as well. 527 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 1: Which when do we we talked about that with pair 528 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: or was a different video there they kind of jumbled together. 529 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: But the Sony one, I think, was a completely different 530 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:33,919 Speaker 1: video where they're looking at ESP. Yes, but that that's 531 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: still is weird to me because these children and the testing, 532 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,359 Speaker 1: but it all seems to be. It seemed to me, 533 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: like I think the big question that we asked was 534 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: why the heck would Sony get into that? Right at 535 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: the time they were making electronics. I mean, they still 536 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:56,280 Speaker 1: largely make electronics and movies. That enraged the dprk um, 537 00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: But you know, why, why the hell would Sony get 538 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: into that? And it made me, it made me just 539 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: think about their CDs. Remember the E s P technology 540 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: on CDs, the idea that the machine would read far 541 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: enough into the CD that if it's skipped, if it 542 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,800 Speaker 1: physically skipped, it wouldn't miss and beat because it already 543 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: knows what's going to happen to ten seconds ahead of time. Yeah. 544 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: So I thought, when I've initially heard about that subject 545 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,760 Speaker 1: that maybe they were it was just some kind of miscommunication, 546 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: that they were actually just studying the ESP for that 547 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,399 Speaker 1: some uh mistranslation because those acronyms stand for very different things. Yeah, 548 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: And it turns out no, they really did. Yes, they 549 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: really did, and when they stopped this program, which I 550 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: went on for a while, when they finally stopped this program, 551 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: and I want you to picture something like, I don't know, 552 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 1: it's the beginning one the Ghostbusters movies where Dr Bankman 553 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: is holding up those cards and uh, and the person 554 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 1: has to guess what's on the card. It was kind 555 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: of similar to that. And ultimately Sony's reason for folding 556 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: the program was just bizarre and fascinating to me. They 557 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: shamalan to me, you guys, because they didn't stop the 558 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: program because it was unsuccessful or had middling results. Indeed, 559 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: in the memos where they talk about the cancelation of 560 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,879 Speaker 1: the program, they say they found something that works and 561 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: that is at least worth researching more if they were academics, 562 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:35,240 Speaker 1: but they're not. Their business so weird, and they said, 563 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: we can't figure out how to make money off this, 564 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: therefore we're not going to do it anymore. I feel 565 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: like they just got a big budget surplus for a 566 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: year and they just went, you know what, let's prove 567 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,280 Speaker 1: psychic powers. I don't know, but you're like a little 568 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: more skeptical with this stuff than I am, for sure. 569 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sure, I don't know I lived too long, 570 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: ben he lived too long, Matt as a younger person. 571 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,919 Speaker 1: There's another study that was pretty interesting that came out 572 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: from a Cornell professor named Daryl Bem which we mentioned 573 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: in one of this week's episodes, and Professor ben I 574 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: almost said instigating he created a very uh fascinating study 575 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: where he would do the following check this out. So 576 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: he would give these student volunteers a list of words 577 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: and these could just be like random words to be fancy, 578 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: so they could be like brim exit, gazebo or whatever. 579 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,320 Speaker 1: And then he would give them this list of words 580 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: and they would just he would give him a few 581 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: minutes to read it. And then what he didn't tell 582 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: them is that he was giving them a surprise quiz 583 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,879 Speaker 1: at the end after they've read these words, where they 584 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: would be given um the surprise quiz to test their 585 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,919 Speaker 1: memory the words, what words are, et cetera. But here's 586 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy, because at the heart of the 587 00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: third you remember this, I think we talked about this. 588 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: The third step of the test was that after they 589 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,839 Speaker 1: had taken the quiz UH, the computer program randomly selected 590 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: uh a few of the words, not all, but a 591 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 1: few of the words for additional study, and it had 592 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 1: the students retyped this word, so you would maybe out 593 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: of um brim exit and gazebo, you would need to 594 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: type exit like three times or several times. Right, this 595 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,280 Speaker 1: would be a much longer. It's a much longer less 596 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: than just three. Yeah, and uh, this weird thing happened 597 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: in the data. When he looked at it and the 598 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 1: way he compiled it, he said, Wow, these students are 599 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:44,439 Speaker 1: doing better on the test based on the words that 600 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 1: they you know, studied or rehearsed after the test, selected 601 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: words the randomly selected ones. Yes, So the students didn't 602 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: know there was going to be a test, they didn't 603 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: know they would have to study after the test, and 604 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:05,839 Speaker 1: somehow their performance, perhaps possibly by coincidence, went up, possibly 605 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: by you know again sloppy science, which is the running 606 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: accusation that happened. Um. The paper was first set in 607 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: the news in two thousand and ten, published in a 608 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: fairly prestigious journal in two thousand eleven, and since that 609 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: point people have been arguing about if this is true, 610 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: and multiple multiple studies come out again saying that there 611 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,839 Speaker 1: there is no such thing as psychic powers. But we 612 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: think that for those of you who believe in these 613 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: sorts of cognitive abilities, that keeping up with folks like 614 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: Darryl Bem is going to be gonna be interesting, perhaps 615 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: even instrumental to your argument in the future. Awesome, Ben, 616 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: I think this is the time where I'm going to 617 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: do the thing that you usually do to me. I've 618 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: been talking the whole time, but too bad. This is 619 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:05,280 Speaker 1: the part where I say, Ben, is there a psychic power, 620 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: maybe all of them, or just one that you really 621 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: believe in, one that you think we just don't have 622 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: the grasp on yet. You know, I've I've quarreled with 623 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 1: that question because this is a little bit of biography. 624 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:28,320 Speaker 1: But in my family, I'm not going to say which side, 625 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: or which relatives or whom in my In my family, 626 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: there's been this long tradition, going back a weirdly long 627 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: amount of time, of people my family being accused not 628 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: by people in our family but outside the family, of 629 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: being some sort of you know which person or things 630 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: like that. Sure, and I think a lot of that 631 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: goes back to them a luncheon thing. Honestly, it's just 632 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: some sort of mothering. But I I have a I 633 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:08,760 Speaker 1: have a hard time saying that there is a silver 634 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,720 Speaker 1: bullet everybody has very one can do it kind of power. 635 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,439 Speaker 1: Because what we know about the human body every other 636 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 1: thing the human body can do, is that most people 637 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: can do the same things, but only to varying degrees. 638 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: Right in the detail, we find the heroes and the 639 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: villains right the degree of their ability, which is why 640 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 1: some people are Olympic runners and other people heave when 641 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: they get upstairs. So if there were some sort of 642 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,280 Speaker 1: psychic power, then logically it follows that this ability would 643 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,400 Speaker 1: have to be present in some way in the majority 644 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: of the human population. Right that that makes sense. I'm 645 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 1: building up to the answer. Um, So the next I 646 00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: gave you my my bias, which is pretty anti this 647 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 1: stuff growing up just because of of um, my personal life. 648 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,399 Speaker 1: But I will also say that given how little we 649 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,240 Speaker 1: know about both the nature of reality and the nature 650 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: of perception in the human brain, it is completely possible 651 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:23,760 Speaker 1: that we understand the skin of perception, or the surface 652 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: of it, but we don't know the machinery behind it. Now. 653 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 1: Of course, I know that some people could say, well, 654 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,799 Speaker 1: you're just dwelling on a few uncertainties and making them 655 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:37,720 Speaker 1: bigger than they are. But we're not because there are 656 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: just these massive, massive gaps and knowledge about cognition, and 657 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:50,680 Speaker 1: that's not even verging on the metaphysical stuff, right. So 658 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,439 Speaker 1: is it possible then that there is something about our 659 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: perception which we do not understand, or is there there's 660 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: some alleged potential or so or so possible thing. Then, 661 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 1: while I'm carefully hedging that, what I am saying is 662 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: is that, yes, it is possible that given the lack 663 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: of understanding we have about consciousness, that our our cognitive abilities, 664 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,680 Speaker 1: that our ability to think, you know, who am I? 665 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: What am I? That self aware part of us may 666 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 1: be able to do or see or encounter more stuff 667 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: than than we know. And I know that sounds kind 668 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,720 Speaker 1: of hippie dippy, but I'm not saying that there are 669 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: any psychic powers I believe in. What I'm saying is 670 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 1: that it's just as credulous and naive to say that 671 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: the possibility categorically does not exist. Saying something hasn't been 672 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 1: proven and saying it will never be proven or does 673 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: not exist. Those are two very very different things that people, 674 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:58,480 Speaker 1: sometimes with the best of intentions and sometimes conveniently confuse. 675 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 1: Very nice Ben, what about you. I'm gonna submit to 676 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: that answer. I just need to write down a few things. Um. 677 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: I I have just a very simple observation. And I think, 678 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,280 Speaker 1: just like you said, with our holes and understanding and perception, 679 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 1: and I think time, the way we understand time is 680 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:24,120 Speaker 1: a bit wonky still, Um, is it an actual thing? 681 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,080 Speaker 1: Does it really exist? Or is it just something and 682 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 1: apple and a name that we have applied to a dimension? 683 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,479 Speaker 1: And I think that perhaps the way that our brain 684 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 1: functions in our neurons, because we've got so many questions there, 685 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: I think there may be some kind of link between 686 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:47,320 Speaker 1: a fourth dimensional understanding or excuse me, a fourth dimensional 687 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: plane and perhaps the way that our brain functions. That 688 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,279 Speaker 1: you know, this really interesting point. But try and scientifically 689 00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: prove that, ideare you, because you probably won't be able 690 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,920 Speaker 1: to do it he's not for a while yet. To 691 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:07,840 Speaker 1: prove something, we would need to have again, an observable, reproducible, 692 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,560 Speaker 1: measurable effect, cause and effect and a thing that we 693 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,719 Speaker 1: know always produces thing B. But here's the thing. What 694 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: if it just doesn't work that way? Then that would 695 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:26,640 Speaker 1: mean that it's not real, right, But it's I guess, 696 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: I guess my head goes to things like holographic universe theory, 697 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,799 Speaker 1: some of the more abstract ideas about the universe as 698 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: a whole and in general reality. Um, that would be 699 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,280 Speaker 1: my only the only reason that I can would allow 700 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 1: for this type of thing to be real unless it 701 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: was proven to me. It would be more like if 702 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 1: if it seemed that these things were not reproducible at all, 703 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,720 Speaker 1: but if just for argument's sake, we knew that something 704 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: was real, it it doesn't matter. We can take uh, 705 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, and just make one up telepathy, and 706 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,920 Speaker 1: you take telepathy for the sake of arguments, say that somehow, 707 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: you know, I everybody listening knew that telepathy was real, 708 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,920 Speaker 1: but we couldn't We couldn't reproduce it because it didn't 709 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: work that way. Then what that would make me go 710 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,880 Speaker 1: back to would be the methodology of the science, because 711 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: it seems like if something does not appear to be 712 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: reproducible then and you know it is a real thing, 713 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,920 Speaker 1: then you find a way to reproduce that stuff. I 714 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: was gonna see you find out what other variable is 715 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 1: in there that's dirty in the test too, because that's 716 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,880 Speaker 1: probably what's happening. And I think, UM, Dean Raiden's argument 717 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:50,080 Speaker 1: about this sort of stuffing real but subtle and complex 718 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:55,040 Speaker 1: is an argument toward that perspective that there are multiple 719 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 1: variations or excuse me, multiple variables that we have yet 720 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:05,040 Speaker 1: to find. UM. With With that being said, um, I 721 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:11,319 Speaker 1: have I have, like most people, been in some really 722 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:16,280 Speaker 1: weird situations. Sounds like the beginning of a totally different story. UM, 723 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:23,160 Speaker 1: but I always have gone to the idea of what 724 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:28,280 Speaker 1: I would call the boring stuff first. You know, maybe I, 725 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 1: maybe I somehow unconsciously knew that there was always a 726 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: lady in a blue dress with a yellow hat somewhere right. 727 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,520 Speaker 1: Maybe you saw a similar pack of cars stop on 728 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,160 Speaker 1: the interstate on TV four years ago, stuff like that. 729 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: And you know, we have to be honest that there 730 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,920 Speaker 1: there are a lot of Charlottetan's out there who want 731 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 1: to um prey on people who are emotionally vulnerable, so 732 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,520 Speaker 1: you have to be careful. But also also you and 733 00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,360 Speaker 1: I have talked about this long time, and I think listeners, 734 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,759 Speaker 1: if you're if you're still on board with us at 735 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,000 Speaker 1: this point in the game, you agree with us when 736 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 1: we say that, um, there are very few questions that 737 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:14,560 Speaker 1: are not worth asking so let's put it to you. 738 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,759 Speaker 1: What do you think Is there any truth to any 739 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,120 Speaker 1: of this stuff? Have you had an experience where at 740 00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,680 Speaker 1: least that you can't explain scientifically of why you saw something? 741 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,480 Speaker 1: One more thing, though, I'm sorry, I have to jump 742 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,560 Speaker 1: in and say this one more thing the absolute craziest, 743 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:37,120 Speaker 1: craziest stuff that I read about. Okay, Matt, What if 744 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,880 Speaker 1: this ability to see through time and space and influence 745 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,319 Speaker 1: events and nonlinear perspectives? What if it's real? And what 746 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,399 Speaker 1: if someone doesn't want you to know? And what if 747 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:51,640 Speaker 1: these people dare we call them time lords? Uh? What 748 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 1: if these seriously, what if these people are are these 749 00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:02,600 Speaker 1: entities are retroactively discrediting the ability of psychics around the world? 750 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,120 Speaker 1: Which is this week's craziest thing been read on the internet? 751 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,600 Speaker 1: For the record, I don't believe it, okay, but maybe 752 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,399 Speaker 1: I've been influenced by the future. How would you know? 753 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you 754 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,239 Speaker 1: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can 755 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,880 Speaker 1: get into contact with us in a number of different ways. 756 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,640 Speaker 1: One of the best is to give us a call. 757 00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 1: Our number is one eight three three std w y 758 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: t K. If you don't want to do that, you 759 00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: can send us a good old fashioned email. We are 760 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,839 Speaker 1: conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't 761 00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,400 Speaker 1: want you to know is a production of I heart Radio. 762 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,960 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 763 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 764 00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:48,760 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.