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Speaker 1: Oh no, it's not Santa, it's Nancy Grace. Are you

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Speaker 1: join the Justice Nation crime stops here dot com. God

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Speaker 1: willing Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I will never forget

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Speaker 1: the day that I first learned that this beautiful DC

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Speaker 1: intern had gone missing, and I saw the first picture

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Speaker 1: of her. She had beautiful, long, curly black hair, these

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Speaker 1: piercing eyes, tall, thin, perfect skin. I'm like, where is Chandra?

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Speaker 1: Nothing makes sense to me. Joining me right now in

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Speaker 1: a fight for justice is Chandra Levy's mother, Susan Levy.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. We all know that at the beginning,

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Speaker 1: it became public knowledge, much to the pain of Chandra's parents,

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Speaker 1: who were happy when their daughter got this prestigious DC internship,

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Speaker 1: you know, which is supposed to open all kind of

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Speaker 1: doors for you. When it was first reported that she

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Speaker 1: had somehow become part of a relationship with a very

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Speaker 1: much married US congressman, and then she goes missing. As

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Speaker 1: the facts began to unfold, much speculation occurred. Today we

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Speaker 1: are at the impass. The prosecutors in DC have outright

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Speaker 1: refused miss Levey's request to retest the evidence in Schandre

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Speaker 1: Levy's murder case. They have outright refused Miss Levy to

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Speaker 1: retest the evidence with state of the art DNA such

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Speaker 1: as touch DNA, in fact, familial DNA analysis anything. Why

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Speaker 1: what happened to the evidence? Has it been compromised, has

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Speaker 1: it been lost? Or are they just tired of the

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Speaker 1: case's no more headlines left to ring out of Chandra

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Speaker 1: Levy's investigation? Why was missus Levy turned down? Why was

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Speaker 1: I turned down? And my request for her evidence to

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Speaker 1: be retested? Joining me right now is Chandra's mother, who

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Speaker 1: has never given up the fight for justice for her daughter, Chandra.

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Speaker 1: Missus Leviy, thank you for being with us. Thank you

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Speaker 1: tell me why it's so important for you to have

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Speaker 1: the evidence in Chandra's case. I'm referring to her jogging tides,

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Speaker 1: the other items that were found near her remains, and

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Speaker 1: the part where she was jogging. Why is it so

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Speaker 1: important to you that this evidence be tested. First of all,

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Speaker 1: this the me too movement and the me too movement.

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Speaker 1: Most people can talk about their situation, but my daughter,

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Speaker 1: who is deceased, is part of that me too movement,

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Speaker 1: and I am a voice because she cannot speak. And

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Speaker 1: there are questions that have never been answered. There's been

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Speaker 1: no understanding and what really happened. There is new ways

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Speaker 1: of doing forensic testing, and there's always that possibility, that

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Speaker 1: slight possibility that there might be something that can be

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Speaker 1: found within the new technology that is there. Even though

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Speaker 1: I've been told by prosecutors that everything has been touched

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Speaker 1: and contaminated. Are they experts in the area of technology

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Speaker 1: and biology to know? My question is there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of loose ends. I'll never get my daughter back,

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Speaker 1: but are there are things that don't match up? And

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Speaker 1: that's my question that if someone may have gotten my

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Speaker 1: daughter in the park, they took time to make knots

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Speaker 1: in her clothing kind of makes me wonder why they

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Speaker 1: had the time to do that and why they were

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Speaker 1: interested in nodding such as an S and M type

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Speaker 1: attack or a bondage attack on her. You mentioned to

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Speaker 1: me earlier about zip ties or zip ties found anywhere

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Speaker 1: near her remains. I don't know, because when it came

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Speaker 1: to the forensic part, I walked out and went to

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Speaker 1: a horse show. That was because you did not want

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Speaker 1: to hear it. I didn't want to hear it. But

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Speaker 1: we certainly told Susan when you asked to have her evidence,

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Speaker 1: for instance, her leggings or running leggings retested. I mean,

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Speaker 1: think about it, Susan, whoever tied those knots had to

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Speaker 1: touch the leggings at on the inside of the knots,

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Speaker 1: just like when you tie your shoe, you're leaving behind

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Speaker 1: DNA with new touch technology. I don't understand why there

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be DNA unless it's being compromised in the evidence room. Well,

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Speaker 1: they said that everything was left out for a year,

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Speaker 1: out in the open, but the knots were still tied,

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Speaker 1: so what's within those knots would still be there. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if they ever untied the knots, or maybe

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Speaker 1: they will untie that we asked for it to be retested.

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Speaker 1: What were you told, Susan. I was told that most

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Speaker 1: of the evidence has been compromised because of the being

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Speaker 1: in the element for a year, and also it was

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Speaker 1: compromised because to me. Other people have touched it and

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Speaker 1: doing their testing. Well, you know what does Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: the director of the Cold Case Research Institute. We certainly

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Speaker 1: won't know that unless we try, Cheryl, we will not

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Speaker 1: know unless we try to see if we've been asking

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Speaker 1: for years. Number one, they need a knot what expert

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Speaker 1: to examine those not and then they need to use

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Speaker 1: the impact it test those tents. If it turns up nothing,

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Speaker 1: so much, at least we tried, Nacy. They love to

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Speaker 1: say we're gonna leave no stone unturned. Well, buddy, you've

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Speaker 1: left one unturned on this one. You know, Cheryl, the

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Speaker 1: types of technology that's now available, from familial DNA to

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Speaker 1: the use of an impact what could be done, What

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Speaker 1: tests could be run on Chaundra's clothes? And I've got

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Speaker 1: to tell you, I mean, I've got an email right

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Speaker 1: here in front of me that was sent to me

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Speaker 1: that they that prosecutors had reviewed all the evidence and

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Speaker 1: think that it's all been done. Well that was at

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Speaker 1: the time of the trial. Says then so much DNA technology.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look at Golden State Killer for Pete's sake,

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Speaker 1: look at the impact, Look at all that has developed

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Speaker 1: since that time, Cheryl, What could be done now that

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Speaker 1: may make a difference in this case, Nancy. They could

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Speaker 1: absolutely use the imbat which is the latest greatest capability

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Speaker 1: that we have to extract DNA again from the inside

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Speaker 1: of the Knight. They could also do phenotyping, which would

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Speaker 1: give you a picture literally of the suspect. You know.

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Speaker 1: An interesting thing the way, this whole thing unrivaled was

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Speaker 1: after a series of investigative reports by the Washington Post,

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Speaker 1: police finally get a warrant to arrest a guy named

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Speaker 1: Ingmar Guandc. He was an illegal immigrant from El Salvador.

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Speaker 1: We all know about the speculation before that. Gary Condent,

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Speaker 1: the congressman, reportedly had had a romantic relationship with Seandre

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Speaker 1: led to this day. He still denies that or will

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Speaker 1: not answer. However, all eyes returned on him until the

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Speaker 1: Washington Post articles that led to the search warrant that

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Speaker 1: led to the arrest of ing margun dc. Gundc was

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Speaker 1: tried and found guilty. Why because he told multiple people

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Speaker 1: behind bars and pen pals foam pals that he killed

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Speaker 1: Schandra Levy. He described her, he has a tattoo on

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Speaker 1: himself that looks like Chandre Levie. He had clippings he

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Speaker 1: had saved in his gel cell that are about Chandra Levy,

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Speaker 1: and he had attacked multiple other women in the same

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Speaker 1: part in the same way as they were jogging, the

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Speaker 1: same m O motorcyperendi method of operation as we think

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Speaker 1: happened to Schandra. That's not the end of the story.

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Speaker 1: He's trying to convict it. And then one witness, one

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Speaker 1: witness says, oh, I was lying. I made that story

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Speaker 1: up about him confessing. So they dropped the whole case.

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Speaker 1: They dismissed charges and send Gondique back to El Salvador. Cheryl.

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Speaker 1: I've never heard anything like that in my life. Why

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Speaker 1: not rework the case? How do I know the witness

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Speaker 1: wasn't lying when he said it was lying? I would

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Speaker 1: just tell the jury that, Nancy. It is the most

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Speaker 1: maddening situation because again, you were my prosecutor. So this

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Speaker 1: to me is the most unfathomable result I've ever seen

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Speaker 1: in my life. First of all, you would never pain

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Speaker 1: everything on a case with one witness. Ever, you work

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Speaker 1: it from the ground up. Everything you told us a

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Speaker 1: long time ago in a meeting, Nancy, let's get our

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Speaker 1: hands dirty with facts and evidence. How Can you just

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Speaker 1: let one small person dissolve this entire case that took

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Speaker 1: seven years to build? It makes no sense. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to this with our friend Deborah Roberts at NBC's

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Speaker 1: Dateline documentary. I called up and called up, and then

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Speaker 1: should answer. Bob Levy, an oncologist, and wife Susan, are

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Speaker 1: expecting their twenty four year old daughter back home in Modesto, California.

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Speaker 1: She was shy. She really liked being at home. Yet

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Speaker 1: her daughter was ambitious, dreaming of a career in law

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Speaker 1: enforcement programming. Oh yeah, she'd even volunteered in her local

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Speaker 1: police department before heading to the nation's capital. She got

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Speaker 1: the internship it's Department of Prisons there. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: she was interested in going to the FBI with me today,

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Speaker 1: A woman I feel that I've known for a very

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Speaker 1: long time. When I would see her cry on a

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Speaker 1: TV screen, it would break my heart. Chandra Levy's mother,

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Speaker 1: Susan Levy, who is joining us. She has traveled from

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Speaker 1: California and is with me here in the studio now.

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Speaker 1: Also with me my colleague Cheryl McCollum, director of the

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Speaker 1: Coal Case Research Institute. Miss Levy when the DC prosecutors

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Speaker 1: told you they had absolutely no intention of using the

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Speaker 1: latest DNA technology on the evidence in Chandra's case. How

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Speaker 1: did that affect you when they basically slammed the door

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Speaker 1: in your face. Well, it made me feel unhappy. Though

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Speaker 1: I'm unhappy anyhow, regardless which way, because I don't have

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Speaker 1: my daughter. But I just feel when I've caught the

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Speaker 1: police department in Washington, DC and asked for them to

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Speaker 1: take a renew interest in the case, and they said

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Speaker 1: that they are still working on it. And though I

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Speaker 1: don't believe it, I've never heard from them working on

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Speaker 1: at how I mean they had and they said did it?

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Speaker 1: And then they cut him loose and let him get

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Speaker 1: deported to El Salvador. What am I working on? And

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Speaker 1: one day he supposedly was up for murder in case

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Speaker 1: El Salvador. I don't know if that's true, but I

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Speaker 1: just never seen anything unraveled so fast after this particular

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Speaker 1: lady that talk to the star witness. And I don't

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Speaker 1: understand how someone who is a prime witness, who is

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Speaker 1: under victim's protection, I think, and he was not guarded

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Speaker 1: in his room and he could just go everywhere, and

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Speaker 1: this lady gets involved and and somehow, unbeknownst to him,

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Speaker 1: has five hours of tapes that is talked about that

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Speaker 1: he made a lie and but miss Levy, the case

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Speaker 1: against gund K was not based on just the one

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Speaker 1: witness who he Gundk confessed to. There if you look

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Speaker 1: in the file, as you well know, there are multiple

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Speaker 1: people behind bars, his cell mates that he bragged, two

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Speaker 1: that he had kills Chandra. There is a penpal that

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Speaker 1: he would talk to regularly, a woman on the phone

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Speaker 1: that he talked to about the murder of Schandre Levy.

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Speaker 1: There are many people, not just this one star witness.

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Speaker 1: Why does he have a tattoo with Schendre Levi's face

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Speaker 1: on his body? Why does he have all the clippings

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Speaker 1: from Schandre Levy in his jail cell and Sharyl McCall

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Speaker 1: him e Even more damning is not one, not two,

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Speaker 1: but three that we know of similar transaction, females that

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Speaker 1: he attacked in the same part, just yards away from

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Speaker 1: where Shaundre's remains were found. Of course he's involved. Was

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Speaker 1: it him alone? I don't know. Did someone pay him

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Speaker 1: or suggest that he do this? I don't know that,

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Speaker 1: but I know he was convicted. Why would the state

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Speaker 1: just drop the case and send the guy away to

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Speaker 1: El Salvador and Cheryl McCollum keep the star witness under

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Speaker 1: protective custody. The According to reports, why would they get

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Speaker 1: ugly with miss Levey needs when I called? When you called?

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Speaker 1: What other people call and say, hey, y'all, why don't

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Speaker 1: you review everything and re chance the evidence now were

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Speaker 1: the latest, greatest stuff, instead of saying, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: maybe that's a good idea. Let's, you know, get back

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Speaker 1: in the war room and work this thing from the

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Speaker 1: ground up again. No, no, they call miss Levey angry

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Speaker 1: at her that she's got people reaching album our behalf.

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Speaker 1: They ignore the fact there's not one, but two similar transactions.

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Speaker 1: And Nathan, you and I both know if you've got

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Speaker 1: very similar crimes and a five mile radius, that looks

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Speaker 1: good all day. If you've got it within a mile,

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Speaker 1: you can pretty much guarantee it's the same person. In

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Speaker 1: this situation, you're talking about yards yards, just yards. You know,

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Speaker 1: the investigation was bungled at the get go. There was

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Speaker 1: evidence that in Shaundre's apartment of building that they had

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Speaker 1: surveillance videos. She goes missing, nobody gets the tape. They

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Speaker 1: tape over it every seventy two hours or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and they lose the tape. They get into her computer

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Speaker 1: and destroy all the evidence. They manage at some point

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Speaker 1: to you know, re access much of the computer evidence.

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Speaker 1: But just one thing after the next, after the next.

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Speaker 1: They ignored some nine one one call. There was a

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Speaker 1: scream in a park and complex. And this doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: My daughter would scream if someone was to take her

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Speaker 1: out of there. She doesn't run by the way in parks.

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Speaker 1: She is not a park runner. That's interesting. On her

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Speaker 1: computer there was evidence she had looked up there's a

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Speaker 1: mansion in Rock Creek Park, as if that's where she

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Speaker 1: were going. That part sounds like an elaborate setup to

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Speaker 1: plant that and have her go there to what meets someone?

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Speaker 1: Why would she go there if she didn't typically jog there,

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Speaker 1: Miss Levy, that's true. Prosecutors are declining to comment on

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Speaker 1: recordings that seemed to indicate Armando Morales was lying. He

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Speaker 1: was recorded by a neighbor stating he lied about Gone Dek,

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Speaker 1: his one time sealmate in a Kentucky prison. But what

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Speaker 1: about all the other evidence, Cheryl McCullum, not just Morales.

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Speaker 1: There's hours and hours of tape that they won't release

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Speaker 1: that she won't be able to hear. There are two

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Speaker 1: similar transactions. Well, those are just the two that he

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Speaker 1: was serving time for, cheryld. We're more than just those two.

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Speaker 1: Those two women are the two that he was actually

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Speaker 1: doing jail time for attacking them in Rock Creek Park,

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Speaker 1: just yards from where Schaudra's remains were found. There are

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Speaker 1: others that he wasn't prosecuted for. Absolutely, but let's break

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Speaker 1: that down. The other two women were the same general

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Speaker 1: height as Chardre, same stature, build, dark curly hair, running

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Speaker 1: in Rock Creek Park with a walkman at the end

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Speaker 1: of their route, so they're fatigued and they're tired. That

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Speaker 1: is not just an m back damn near a signature,

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Speaker 1: Miss Levy. I heard someone ask you just recently, why

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Speaker 1: don't you quote move on? Well, when I heard the question,

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Speaker 1: it just as my son said, it was cringey. It

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Speaker 1: literally made me physically cringe. When I heard some one

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Speaker 1: ask you, miss lady, why don't you just move on

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Speaker 1: from this? I have to turn every stone. It is

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Speaker 1: my belief that even there's a very possibility that sunder

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Speaker 1: may have never been killed in that park or may

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Speaker 1: have been taken away and replaced there. I don't know

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Speaker 1: why I feel that it is such like like deep

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Speaker 1: inside me. But you don't move on when you lose

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Speaker 1: a child. Yes, you go out and live in your

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Speaker 1: life the best you know how. But someone out there

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Speaker 1: knows what really did happen, the truth. And I do

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Speaker 1: not want to have my daughter's death forgotten, and that

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Speaker 1: if her death meant to open up an avenue for

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Speaker 1: other people to get to their truth quicker, that would

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Speaker 1: be great. I can't say one hundred percent sure that

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Speaker 1: this case is closed, and it's code again. The me

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Speaker 1: too movement involves those people who have us, have lost

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Speaker 1: their lives, and in my case, my daughter had been manipulated,

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Speaker 1: had lost your life, and I am her voice. Oh

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Speaker 1: now it's not Santa, it's Nancy Grace. Are you trying

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Speaker 1: to find the perfect gift for a parent or an

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00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: expecting parent, Please do not give them another onesie, don't

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00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 1: do it, and not another plastic toy is going to

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00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: end up in the trash being or the garage or

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00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 1: sent to Goodwill this holiday season. Give them something that

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00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: really matters, and what matters more than protecting their child?

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00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 1: I sat down with the smartest people in the world

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00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 1: that I know when it comes to child safety, finding

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00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 1: missing children, and fighting back against predators. And what I

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00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 1: learned is so critical and the information so powerful and important.

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00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: I want you to have it. I want them as

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00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 1: parents to have it. Go to crimestops here dot com

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00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 1: for a five part series with action information that you

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00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 1: can use to change your life and protect your child

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00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: because I have done it myself based on what they

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00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 1: have told me. And starting right now until midnight November

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00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 1: twenty six, you get forty percent off when you sign

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00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 1: up forty percent off. Give that as a gift, not

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00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 1: another onesie. Please find out how to protect your child

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00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: out and about at the mall, at the store, at

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00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: the grocery store, in part lots, in parking decks, at

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00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 1: your home, in your neighborhood. Find out about protection regarding babysitters,

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00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: nanny's daycare, even protection online. It's the very best gift

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00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 1: you can give any parent and forty percent off Black

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Speaker 1: Friday starts now. Go to crimestops here dot com and

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00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 1: join the Justice Nation crime stops here dot com. God

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00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 1: willing with me. Schandra's mother, Susan Levy, who has traveled

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Speaker 1: from California. Also with me the director of the Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCullum. Cheryl, I tried with the

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Speaker 1: prosecutors to get them to retest the evidence. I had

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Speaker 1: a stonewall, and I kept trying it with all diplomacy

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Speaker 1: I could muster. Miss Levey tried. That's the outrage that

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Speaker 1: a victim's mother was treated that way, and it hurts me. Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: I was a felony prosecutor. I am a crime victim.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm still part of the justice system

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Speaker 1: as we all are, and it hurts me about what

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Speaker 1: is going on right now. When you tried, Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: to get the evidence retested, essentially I got the message, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm about to retire. You know, I'm not touching this case.

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Speaker 1: It's over as far as I'm concerned, forget about it.

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Speaker 1: Basically is that the nutshell of what you got pretty

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Speaker 1: much what I got. The first thing she wanted to

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Speaker 1: do was correct how I addressed her. Each state and city,

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Speaker 1: they you know, they have different things they call their prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: so it could be an attorney general, you know, whatever.

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Speaker 1: So she wanted to be sure that I had the

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Speaker 1: right title and so I knew at that point it

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Speaker 1: was going to go south. But here's the thing that

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Speaker 1: do You and I both started our careers really as

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Speaker 1: victim advocate, whether it was in the courtroom or the

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Speaker 1: Fatter Woman's shelter or RT crisis, that's what we did.

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Speaker 1: And in this case, when you look at what miss

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Speaker 1: Levy has been through, her daughter goes missing, they do

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Speaker 1: not find her for a year, even though they supposedly

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Speaker 1: search fat areas. After that, there was a period of

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Speaker 1: seven years Nancy where she didn't hear a word from

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Speaker 1: the police or prosecutors or anybody. Seven years of not

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Speaker 1: knowing what the heck of going on with this case.

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Speaker 1: And now she's asking for something very small. It's nothing

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Speaker 1: to get this tested. We even offered the freaking pay

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Speaker 1: for well, I didn't know that part, Cheryl. You offered

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Speaker 1: to use your own facilities and equipment that you can

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Speaker 1: access to retest the evidence in the Sean Leevie case.

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Speaker 1: And even though it would not cost their office one penny,

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Speaker 1: they declined, they won't even respond. And they again they

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Speaker 1: got very ugly with her, not knowing why she had

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Speaker 1: Nancy Gray's call up there. Well, she had Nancy Gray's

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Speaker 1: call up there because Cheryl the call up couldn't get

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Speaker 1: it done. Well, I'm sorry to say you and I

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Speaker 1: are frying in the same pan right now. We're stilling

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Speaker 1: in the same pot. I couldn't get it done either.

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Speaker 1: But what really burns me up is talking miss Levy

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Speaker 1: like that, Miss Levy, when you called for Shaundrew's evidence

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Speaker 1: to be retested. What was their demeanor? They just didn't

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Speaker 1: give me any answer. Is it any way that they're

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Speaker 1: still working on this? And the police, you know, they

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Speaker 1: kind of beat around the bush and and they really

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Speaker 1: said there's nothing more that can be done. Really, they

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Speaker 1: haven't heard about the MVAC and touch technology, and that's

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Speaker 1: what I told them. And then they they they stood out,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's all been washed out. That's what we did,

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Speaker 1: is washed the stuff out or something I guess they

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Speaker 1: figure as a wet vacuum, and it washed up all

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Speaker 1: the evidence out. It's not my understanding what technology is,

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Speaker 1: but I know that there have been cases like the

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Speaker 1: California Killer serial killer that was they were able to

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Speaker 1: find out who that man was. And it's always that

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Speaker 1: chance that may be we can find out a little

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Speaker 1: bit more than than what we know already. What I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: Miss Levy is that star witness. And I'm saying that

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Speaker 1: with air quotees liar or no liar, I would argue

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Speaker 1: to the jury he was lying when he said he

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Speaker 1: was lying. Okay, if I believed in my case, But

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Speaker 1: forget about him. If there is DNA there, you don't

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Speaker 1: need him. And what skin off their back is it

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Speaker 1: to have it retested? What have they lost it it's

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Speaker 1: somewhere lost in the evidence dream or worse, what would

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00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: how would it hurt them to take the evidence with

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Speaker 1: their own little, hot little hands to the crime lab

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Speaker 1: and have it. In fact, maybe they don't know where

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Speaker 1: they put the evidence at. I'm not sure. It's just see,

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Speaker 1: I hate to say that I went to pick up

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Speaker 1: my daughter's clothing belongings that she had, and I went

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Speaker 1: to an awful part of town and they have thousands

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Speaker 1: of other murdered boxes of people's remaining clothing, and knowing

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00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: the way the government works, maybe they don't know what

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00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: they're always doing. Well, I've got to tell you, you

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00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: know that strikes me to the core because my whole

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00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: world has been built on being part of the system.

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Speaker 1: But I know that the system fails, and that's very

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Speaker 1: hurtful but also very true. And Klinga Mansion. One time

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Speaker 1: I went on my own investigating what Kalinga mansion is about,

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Speaker 1: and I found all kinds of advertisements. You know, they

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Speaker 1: do weddings, they do children's part parties. But at that

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Speaker 1: time that I was investigating on my own, they say,

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Speaker 1: we can do everything that your heart desires. Imagine, and

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Speaker 1: then it makes me wonder if there's more to Kalinga

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Speaker 1: than we all know regarding why she was there, right

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Speaker 1: she was near that as hostile is kind of like

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Speaker 1: a well, i'll say, a mansion in the middle or

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00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: near Rock Creek Park where shaundres remains were found. We

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Speaker 1: are talking with Seandre Levy's mother, Or who is back

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00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: in the fray now after being absent processing the loss

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Speaker 1: of her daughter, the trial and the shocking aftermath after

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Speaker 1: the killer, who was convicted by a jury is set

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Speaker 1: free to go home to ol Salvador. I don't understand it,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't understand why the case wasn't reinvestigated and tried again.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to something very important, Miss Levy.

427
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: To many people, Sandra's name is now a headline. They

428
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: don't remember the pain that you suffered. I don't think

429
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: it's a headline in the same way that it was before,

430
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: because it's a new generation. Ten twenty years. I've gone

431
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: to schools and speak for the Day of Respect, and

432
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: it's amazing because this new generation is longer. Did you

433
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: go the more? The name isn't a headline because people

434
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: would forget, you know what, Let's remind them the day

435
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: that Chandra disappeared. Tell me about what was happening that

436
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: day in your life when you discovered your daughter was missing.

437
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: But my husband first kind of realized before I did,

438
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: because he had made many many calls and didn't get

439
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: any calls back. And she was supposed to come home

440
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: for her college graduation and we didn't know what her

441
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: plans were, and it's highly unlike her not to tell

442
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: us that when she was coming back, so that my

443
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: husband kind of knew before I did or suspected. And

444
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: then later on I wound up calling our congressman, and

445
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: then what happened, well, actually my husband called the FBI

446
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: FBI and and the congressman, and then a second time

447
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: I called and got Musach and finally asked if he

448
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: knew where Shaundra was and later on we got phone,

449
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: you know phones, because she was an she was an intern,

450
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: and she got phone. We got our phone records, which

451
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: was very hard to get from Verizon or whatever at

452
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: and T. I don't know what we had. I think

453
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: it's Verizon and we had to go through a lot

454
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: of ropes to get that. And there were many, many,

455
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,479
Speaker 1: many many calls going to his office day and night.

456
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: I don't understand why you were having to do this

457
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: and not the police. I don't know if the police did,

458
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: but we did, okay, And then what did the sell

459
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: what did the phone wreckers reveal? That she was calling

460
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: constantly to a specific number and that number was him.

461
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: It was belonged to Gary Khan, And of course he

462
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: told me that basically, he gets a lot of calls

463
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: from interns and people who want to know a vice

464
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 1: about like FBI, and you know what, you don't get

465
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: a second language, you know, so you can get into Okay,

466
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: take a listen to Congressperson Gary Condit talking with our

467
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: friend doctor Phil. You developed a friendship with her, and

468
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,719
Speaker 1: you saw her outside the office, correct. I saw her

469
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: one time, sorry, I saw her one time outside the

470
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: office at a restaurant, and she came by my conduce

471
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: any about your condu once, well, maybe twice. Yeah, I

472
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: think it was twice you came by, Okay, But once again,

473
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: I want to make this clear, there's nothing unusual about

474
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: someone coming by my conduct. A lot of people did, so,

475
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: you know, people have made some speculation about that means

476
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: something special. But you know, well, we're the police making

477
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: something out of that, trying to trying to absolutely Yeah, yeah, yeah,

478
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: well they were trying to make something out everything they could.

479
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: Gary Condit, the congress person was actually in a meeting

480
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: with the then vice president. I know he was not

481
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: there at the time we think Schandra went missing. But

482
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: I also know, Cheryl McCollum, that he has waffled on

483
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: how many times he saw Chandra to explain away all

484
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: the phone calls, all the messages he left there at

485
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: her home. As a matter of fact, let's take a

486
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: listen to Congressman Condent leaving a message with CHANDRAI heard

487
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: from maybe you're out of the out of the country

488
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: or something. Anyway, Now, again, Cheryl, we know that at

489
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: the time we think Schandra went missing, that he was

490
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: actually in a closed door meeting with the vice president. Okay,

491
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: regarding his relationship with her, he's always been very very

492
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: unclear at something place. Anyone who is asked not to

493
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: carry their ID and what with them to me is

494
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: setting them up. Why do you say that, Well, it

495
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: just seems like it just seems ironic that if someone

496
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: didn't have ID and wallet, how you know, if something

497
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: happened to them, then you would not be able to

498
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: identify them as fast. I know that I've been told that, oh,

499
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: he didn't want to being you know, criminated. But basically

500
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: I just can't believe she would not carry ID and wallet.

501
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: And also she left some of her jewelry A hand

502
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: of God. It's a little necklace I gave to her

503
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: in Israel. She left it in the apartment and she

504
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: never takes it off because it maybe showering. It just

505
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: something doesn't strike me. Do you think someone told her

506
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: not to carry her ID? Oh, whenever she went to

507
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: see him? How do you know that? I think either

508
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: Linda or Chounder told me. I guessed that she was

509
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: seeing him. But why would you go out with out

510
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: an idea? Why would you go running in if you're

511
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: going to a park without a phone, without an idea

512
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to Cheryl McCullum. The just for me

513
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: of what miss Levy is saying is that there are

514
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: so many loose ends in the case that have never

515
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: been tied up, never been answered. And I have a

516
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: couple other questions as far as people in gail, they

517
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: have killed people, do they always put their tattoos about

518
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: the women that have been killed that they have killed

519
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 1: on their body or the people who are in jail

520
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: just generally make tattoos of attractive women. You know, Cheryl,

521
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: have you seen the tattoo that gone DK has. It's

522
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: Chandra Levy, it's her face. It's certainly a striking reason.

523
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: What'sa There's no doubt about that. And again they questioned,

524
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: why why would you do that if it's not the

525
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 1: brag or to force people that you know ask him

526
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: about it so that he can tell the stories. Well.

527
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: To hear it from defense attorney Bernie Grimm, he and

528
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: I got into a fight over it. He says that

529
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: Gundique bragged about killing Chandra to make himself a big

530
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: guy behind bars. But to me, you don't brag about that.

531
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: He told that to a penpal that he taught to

532
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: on the phone, he told people behind bars, he told

533
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: the so called star witness. Morales said that to many

534
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: other people, combined with keeping clippings about Chandra Levy having

535
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: her face tattooed on his body, not only that, attacking

536
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: multiple women within yards of where Schandra's remains were found

537
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: in the same m o dark headed women jogging in

538
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: the park from behind. You would have walked right up

539
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: to him before this trial it ever started, and you

540
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: would have said, tell me one thing about vaccine. It's

541
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: never been in the paper. Either he can or he can't.

542
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: You're right if he knew something very specific. Where's her

543
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: pinky ring? Tell me what kind of knot the pants

544
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: were tied in? Tell me something, Educate me. I bet

545
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: he can. Shandrew's mother is with me here, Susan lady,

546
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 1: do you recall that day you learned Chandra was no

547
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: longer a missing person but her remains have been identified.

548
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: Horrible day. Your world is shattered, nothing's never the same,

549
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,479
Speaker 1: and you ask God why, and it tempts your faith

550
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: in the belief of God, because God is sleeping on

551
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: the job. That's how I felt. My husband used to

552
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: say that Now I feel it more that way. Why

553
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: such violent Why did this ever have to happen? And

554
00:36:54,680 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: how many other people that have god through the same thing.

555
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: And I even think of that people that may have

556
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: been in my community that went missing and they could

557
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: find that person's body or remains. So it's not easy.

558
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: This is not easy to be here doing this. I

559
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: wish we had my daughter ability to be able to

560
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: tell us, you know, but she'll say, what difference does

561
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: it make? And I say, it makes a difference for

562
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Do you believe, Cheryl McCullum, that

563
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: there were claims of prosecutorial misconduct, which I don't necessarily believe.

564
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 1: Do you believe that this is just a sore spot

565
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: for the prosecutors that they don't want to reopen. I

566
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: can worms is that what they consider this case to be, Nancy,

567
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, again, I'm pretty sculled because

568
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: you were my prosecutor, and then I had a string

569
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: of other prosecutors that were extraordinary as well, and they

570
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: would fight, they would put cases up even if they

571
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: believed they were going to lose them, because they knew

572
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: it was the right thing to do. And in this situation,

573
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: I cannot think of a reason that you would not

574
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,479
Speaker 1: double back, start over, build your case without the one

575
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: lying witness, or to your point, put him up and

576
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: make him now talk about it. Why would you lie?

577
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: And then all these other people didn't lie? You know,

578
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: the penpal had no reason to lie. The other salemates

579
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: had no reason to life. His tattoo, don't life his

580
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: similar transactions, don't lie his criminal history in El Salvador.

581
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 1: Don't lie. Put it up. I don't understand any of

582
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: this is what I know. I know that this case

583
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: garnered attention at the beginning because congress then Congressperson Geary

584
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: Conduct had allegedly been having a romantic relationship with a

585
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: female intern over twenty years younger than him, a married congressman. Well,

586
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: police say he has been exonerated, that he was in

587
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: a meeting with the Vice President Dick Cheney at the

588
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 1: time Schandra goes missing. But what about gun Dk Why

589
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: was he cut free? Why hasn't the case been prosecuted,

590
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: and more to my point right now, why are prosecutors

591
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: stonewalling Schandra's mother on retesting the evidence. This case is

592
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: not over. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend,