Speaker 1: This is Gavin Newsom and this is Governor Tim Walls.
Speaker 1: All right, Governor, it's great to have you on the podcast.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being with us.
Speaker 2: I am thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Uh, I'm kind of wondering where I follow this list
Speaker 3: of guests, but I'm excited.
Speaker 2: You're not be friends for a while, so we're not appreciated.
Speaker 3: But you and I have talked about this for a while,
Speaker 3: trying to trying to understand, uh, during a Trump presidency,
Speaker 3: how do we best serve our folks? How do we
Speaker 3: get back there? And the Democratic Party? I mean, we
Speaker 3: all need to be very candid. Is is not all
Speaker 3: that popular right now?
Speaker 1: Well, that's how I wanted to start, just right up top.
Speaker 1: I mean, the timing of this couldn't be more opportunistic
Speaker 1: for both of us as Democratic governors. It's look, we're
Speaker 1: in the tank. I mean, it's not just a rough spot.
Speaker 1: It's an historically low at least in modern polling. Back
Speaker 1: to the nineteen nineties. CNN had the Democratic Party brand
Speaker 1: now down about twenty nine percent, and it was even
Speaker 1: worse in an NBC pull that showed twenty seven percent
Speaker 1: of people supporting our party. You've been out on the road.
Speaker 1: You were just in a couple of red states. You've
Speaker 1: been doing town halls. We've talked about this in the
Speaker 1: past privately. It's not just about what you say and
Speaker 1: how you say, it's also about where you say it.
Speaker 1: So I love the fact that you were out there,
Speaker 1: so give us a sense. I mean, what you're over
Speaker 1: under is about where the hell our party is right now?
Speaker 2: Well, and I think that's what people are doing.
Speaker 3: Look, this is something hadn't been done, what you're doing,
Speaker 3: and people are, you know, and they're we're trying to
Speaker 3: enter spaces and look, I don't know if all of
Speaker 3: them are going to work.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: But the fact of the matter is we don't want
Speaker 3: to win elections just to say Democrats want elections. We
Speaker 3: want to win elections to improve people's lives. When we're
Speaker 3: losing elections, chaos reigns, which we're seeing right now. I'm
Speaker 3: out of town hall and these folks are standing up.
Speaker 3: They're a VA nurse, you know, they're concerned what's happening
Speaker 3: in the VA. They're a farmer that's concerned. They are
Speaker 3: folks that are concerned about their personal reproductive rights and
Speaker 3: their life choices and if we can't be a respected
Speaker 3: opposition or alternative, that really worries me. And I say this, Kevin,
Speaker 3: that that I didn't I didn't go to the Democrats.
Speaker 3: They came to me with social Security, with gi Bill.
Speaker 3: You know, it was clear when at least my age
Speaker 3: growing up, Democrats stood with working people, Republicans stood with
Speaker 3: the wealthy, and there was nothing necessarily wrong with that
Speaker 3: that you know, it was. It was at least an argument.
Speaker 3: It feels much more polarized now, but people don't see
Speaker 3: us as that.
Speaker 1: It's they see exactly the opposite of that, that we're
Speaker 1: the party of the elites, that we don't represent we
Speaker 1: represent quote unquote others, we don't represent them. In this
Speaker 1: notion that the working class now has been is embraced
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is extraordinary and so and what do you
Speaker 1: I mean, the million out on the camp you were
Speaker 1: out on the campaign show. I mean, it's such an
Speaker 1: interesting conversation for me to have with you and for
Speaker 1: those listening, because no one has more sort of a
Speaker 1: contemporary ear to the ground than you do. Just coming
Speaker 1: off a few months ago the campaign trail, meeting people
Speaker 1: all across this country. I mean, these new numbers that
Speaker 1: came out as CNN and NBC. I mean even you
Speaker 1: had to be shocked by how far we've fallen as
Speaker 1: a brand.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Look, and I felt excitement out there, and our policies
Speaker 3: are popular. By the way, when you pull our policies
Speaker 3: like paid family, medical lead, support for the environment, reproductive rights,
Speaker 3: they pulled very high.
Speaker 2: We don't. So what I have to tell you, what
Speaker 2: I take away.
Speaker 3: From that, Gavin, is is that I think we got
Speaker 3: to be very careful of drinking our own kool aid
Speaker 3: or believing we're in our bubble, because I truly did
Speaker 3: think we were going to win. And I say that
Speaker 3: as someone who is run in traditionally red districts won
Speaker 3: close races, and I felt like I had a feel,
Speaker 3: and I think this is where we're going to have
Speaker 3: to get out over our skis a bit, try new places.
Speaker 2: I know we've had this argument. It was out there, Governor.
Speaker 3: We didn't see you on a lot of you know,
Speaker 3: things that weren't mainstream media. We didn't see you on podcasts.
Speaker 3: We didn't see doing that. Are you willing to go
Speaker 3: into those We need to be willing to go into
Speaker 3: those spaces now, between you and Ikevin I don't think
Speaker 3: we're going to win over those seventy seven million that
Speaker 3: voted for Donald Trump. I'm concerned with the ninety million
Speaker 3: who stayed home. Now, I'm concerned that our policies positively
Speaker 3: impact those seventy seven million, because you and I represent
Speaker 3: a lot of independence, Republicans, Greens as well as Democrats,
Speaker 3: and we have responsibility. I don't know if we can
Speaker 3: necessarily win them over, but I think the thing that
Speaker 3: we should really soul search on is when the choice
Speaker 3: was Donald Trump and JD. Van's and Kamala Harrison myself
Speaker 3: and policies that we were clearly articulating. It got pretty
Speaker 3: close seventy seven to seventy five type of thing. But
Speaker 3: it's the ninety million that stayed home. Why did they
Speaker 3: think we were the same, Why did they think we
Speaker 3: weren't there?
Speaker 2: And I don't.
Speaker 3: I think by going into these spaces to be candid
Speaker 3: with you, it allows people to express their frustrations, It
Speaker 3: allows people to articulate what's happening in their lives. It
Speaker 3: better also be a place where we're hearing and learning,
Speaker 3: because I'm guessing you're hearing some things that you don't
Speaker 3: normally hear.
Speaker 2: When you're going on with some of these folks, you're
Speaker 2: on with the understanding.
Speaker 1: Here, and that's Yeah. This notion of uncomfortable conversations not
Speaker 1: just conversations. But let me let me, let me step back.
Speaker 1: I love what you said because it's interesting this notion
Speaker 1: of our policies are popular, but our party is not popular,
Speaker 1: and it begs the question some have asked me, and
Speaker 1: I want to pose it to you. Do you think
Speaker 1: one of the mistakes is we don't focus first on
Speaker 1: what we stand for and then make the case the
Speaker 1: policy that backs that up and reinforces it. That we
Speaker 1: are not fundamentally meeting people where they are. They want
Speaker 1: to know what we stand for.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's good. Yeah, And look, I and
Speaker 3: I appreciate. I think we're going to be in hard places,
Speaker 3: and I think we're going to get punched from both
Speaker 3: sides doing some of this. But we're not in this too.
Speaker 3: Like I said, we're not banking political capital to win
Speaker 3: another election. We're trying to improve people's lives. And let's
Speaker 3: all be very candas nobody's lives being improved right now
Speaker 3: except billionaires, and I don't see that changing. And so
Speaker 3: I think we're going to have to ask those questions.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of times the simple answer is
Speaker 3: it's the messenger, you know, which all acknowledged. Maybe the
Speaker 3: messenger is not good at this. I approach this always,
Speaker 3: Kevin like a school teacher. I give a lesson and
Speaker 3: then I do an assessment of that lesson, and half
Speaker 3: the students didn't do very well on it. Well, I
Speaker 3: don't assume that those half are terrible kids. I assume
Speaker 3: that they have a different learning style, or they weren't
Speaker 3: hearing the way I was teaching it.
Speaker 2: Maybe these folks.
Speaker 3: Were, you know, verbal learners, maybe they were kinesitic learners,
Speaker 3: whatever it might be. I think we have to approach
Speaker 3: the electorate like that, that we think we're telling them
Speaker 3: where we're at.
Speaker 2: But for whatever reason, you're right, and this pains me.
Speaker 2: I tried to make the case. Look, I'm a public
Speaker 2: school teacher, went to a public university, and according to
Speaker 2: the Wall Street Journal, I'm the poorest person who ever
Speaker 2: ran for vice president. That didn't matter to them.
Speaker 3: And so the idea here that we were trying to
Speaker 3: craft some one who, for whatever reason, there was a
Speaker 3: number of people that didn't register with So I'm with
Speaker 3: everybody else. And again when people ask me, I'm probably
Speaker 3: the last person you should ask for answers because I
Speaker 3: didn't get it done. But I do believe we were
Speaker 3: making inroads, and I will have to tell you one
Speaker 3: of the most powerful ones for me, Gavin. It's not
Speaker 3: a great use of campaign time, but we were up
Speaker 3: in Erie, Pennsylvania on Halloween before the election, and I
Speaker 3: sat down with five undecided voters and we had a
Speaker 3: forty five minute give and take on that. I think
Speaker 3: I got three of them for sure. Maybe, but you
Speaker 3: know that's how you view it. But the fact of
Speaker 3: the matter was is it was really good for me too,
Speaker 3: because it was coming back and forth and this guy says, well,
Speaker 3: I didn't realize, you know, you understood farm policy like this,
Speaker 3: because I'm not hearing that from you guys.
Speaker 2: He was telling us.
Speaker 3: He wasn't hearing that. I said, but I do know this,
Speaker 3: I know the price of corn, I know all these
Speaker 3: things work. So I think as Democrats, we're going to
Speaker 3: have to push ourselves into uncomfortable spots and these town halls. Look,
Speaker 3: I'll be the first technology of you. It's to highlight
Speaker 3: that their members are Congress on the Republican side are
Speaker 3: ashamed of Donald Trump's policies.
Speaker 1: Is that? I mean, it was that fun foundationally, the
Speaker 1: why was that the inspiration to go out and do it?
Speaker 3: Yes, And I don't demonize these representatives. I honor their service.
Speaker 3: I went out there, but I lived through this. I
Speaker 3: went to the town halls during the ACA and I
Speaker 3: made a full throated defense of President Obama's healthcare bill.
Speaker 3: And I got reelected. Now it was a tough fight,
Speaker 3: but I got reelected. These folks are not going out there,
Speaker 3: and I'll tell you it's a huge mistake. Democrats did
Speaker 3: this in twenty ten. Oh these are Republican operatives. They
Speaker 3: were not Republican operatives. They were my neighbors who were
Speaker 3: matter than hell. And we're getting misinformation. But I went
Speaker 3: out and filled that void. I think we as Democrats
Speaker 3: have left a void, and that Donald Trump is masterful.
Speaker 3: Say what you will about this. I don't give him credit.
Speaker 3: I don't think he's a genius. I don't think he
Speaker 3: knows how stuff works. But I do think he knows
Speaker 3: how media works. And I do think he knows that
Speaker 3: if we're assuming people here are arguments, they're just so
Speaker 3: SELFIH just like this teacher and me, I taught the
Speaker 3: lesson this should be easy. Well, that's not how all
Speaker 3: people learn. It's not all people's lives are at And again,
Speaker 3: I don't if someone who doesn't believe a woman should
Speaker 3: have the right to choose, if someone who doesn't believe
Speaker 3: the president should be restrained by the constitution, I'm not
Speaker 3: going to win them. But I don't believe that's a
Speaker 3: very large percentage of the population. But why are they
Speaker 3: not trusting us? What's your take? I mean, why are
Speaker 3: what are you hearing when you hear this? Why are
Speaker 3: people not trusting the message we were delivering? Because I
Speaker 3: keep coming back to this. We needed to have immigration
Speaker 3: reform to control our borders, and you can do that
Speaker 3: with humanity. Donald Trump just said they're invading our country,
Speaker 3: they're eating dogs and cats, and he got more votes.
Speaker 3: Why is it so?
Speaker 1: I mean, and I want to and I have strong
Speaker 1: opinions on that, but I want to sort of stress
Speaker 1: test yours again because I think it's interesting. Back to
Speaker 1: my notion, and you say, you're the last person I'm
Speaker 1: going to completely dismiss. I think you're the best position
Speaker 1: to understand what's going on. But let me reflect on
Speaker 1: this notion of you being teacher and reflecting on on
Speaker 1: how your students did. Did you have an opportunity right
Speaker 1: off the election to sit down over the course. I mean,
Speaker 1: I hope you took time off with the family decompressed,
Speaker 1: but you had to have had with your team these conversations.
Speaker 1: Did you have them with the Harris team as well?
Speaker 1: Did you have them with the campaign team? Have you
Speaker 1: organized anything more formally even internally? You got books coming
Speaker 1: out they're going to shape those internal conversations. You got
Speaker 1: one book coming out in a few weeks called Fight
Speaker 1: that is already starting to frame what did or did
Speaker 1: not occur. Have you started that process or has that
Speaker 1: process been advanced?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: No, you're right, and I've talked to my team about it.
Speaker 3: Look as a high school teacher and a governor whatever,
Speaker 3: I didn't think about writing a book, But being there,
Speaker 3: I have.
Speaker 2: You know, I think we.
Speaker 3: Got to tell our story and I think there's lessons
Speaker 3: learned to not go back and do you know, a
Speaker 3: deep bever or hotwash of this is irresponsible in my opinion.
Speaker 3: I spoke to the Vice president last week. We talked
Speaker 3: a little bit about this, of coming to it but
Speaker 3: we haven't done like a formal debrief, and you know,
Speaker 3: when you're part of it, you've done this that. When
Speaker 3: you're part of a team on this, you know you
Speaker 3: work together. And I stand by that. I signed up
Speaker 3: and I say this, Gavin, you'd appreciate not the cliches
Speaker 3: of coaching or whatever, but I feel like I'm the
Speaker 3: constant team player. If you are truly a team player,
Speaker 3: you have a responsibility to make your team better. And
Speaker 3: that means a responsibility to say, look, we're not making
Speaker 3: this block here, we need to do this or whatever
Speaker 3: it is, and we need to be honest that Again,
Speaker 3: I keep coming back to that number of the folks
Speaker 3: who stayed home. How in God's name could you stay
Speaker 3: home during this election? It's pretty hard to blame that
Speaker 3: on Donald Trump? You know what I mean that you've
Speaker 3: got a responsibility. They weren't going to vote for him,
Speaker 3: his people were, But you had a whole bunch of
Speaker 3: these folks that just said, what difference does it make?
Speaker 3: And how did we as a party get into that?
Speaker 3: How did we lose the narrative? How much are we
Speaker 3: seeding ground to the Fox News and the right wing
Speaker 3: talking heads? How much are we seeding to them, which
Speaker 3: we don't have a pushback on it. And that's fascinating
Speaker 3: to me. I see that with me, people who have
Speaker 3: a clearly defined vision who I am by what they
Speaker 3: listen to.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, that's not true. None of that
Speaker 2: is true. But they have it.
Speaker 1: They have it, and I mean, and it's so interesting.
Speaker 1: I think about you, and you know, we've talked about
Speaker 1: this before, this notion of you know you were there
Speaker 1: was an effort to swift boat you in terms of
Speaker 1: your military service, and it's interesting and Tim, we've also
Speaker 1: talked about the fact you were part of Carrie's campaign
Speaker 1: as a veteran promore watching Carrie by these same folks
Speaker 1: get swift in and did it.
Speaker 3: And I'm telling you, this is one of the most
Speaker 3: painful ones for me, Gavin, not because I don't go
Speaker 3: down and throw this in people's faces, but my dad
Speaker 3: was koreat war, aor veteran.
Speaker 2: He took me. I did it.
Speaker 3: I don't go out there and say, you know, I'm
Speaker 3: better than you, because I did twenty four years. But
Speaker 3: how quickly these guys dismissed twenty four years of honorable service.
Speaker 3: I rose and served as a highest ranking enlisted soldier
Speaker 3: where you can get and they find a way to
Speaker 3: damn it. And my argument on that has always been
Speaker 3: it damages all veterans. But I bet if you went
Speaker 3: and polled, we see this. Veterans voted for Donald Trump
Speaker 3: where they voted for us. We as Democrats, how do
Speaker 3: you write this off? How do you do or this one?
Speaker 3: Republicans are more fiscally conservative? You know that's not true.
Speaker 3: Republican governors of California have not been fiscally conservative.
Speaker 1: No, And I'll remind everyone eight point four trillion dollars
Speaker 1: added to the debt during the four years of the
Speaker 1: Trump administration. And if you want to dismiss that, say
Speaker 1: it was COVID. It was three trillion before the pandemic.
Speaker 1: He ran deficits every single year. So I stand by
Speaker 1: what you just said, Tim.
Speaker 3: I mean, what do you think happening? Look, you're taking
Speaker 3: a different approach, You're doing other things. And I said,
Speaker 3: I think we as Democrats have to give whether it's
Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders, whether it's Jasmine Crockett, AOC, Gavin Newsom, JB.
Speaker 2: Pritzker, all of the folks out there, because look.
Speaker 3: What we have in common is we believe in working people,
Speaker 3: we believe in fairness, we believe in healthcare, we believe
Speaker 3: in the environment.
Speaker 2: We're on the same team as the American public. But
Speaker 2: how do you see it? I mean, did it feel
Speaker 2: like we were.
Speaker 1: Going to win? No, I mean we had that conversation.
Speaker 1: I felt like that up until election day for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: And look, but it's you know, it's interesting. I had
Speaker 1: the same false sense that I think we all fall
Speaker 1: prey to, and that is I was on those campaign buses.
Speaker 1: I was out there campaigning for you guys. And it's
Speaker 1: make believe in many respects. When they say, you know,
Speaker 1: when you want to go right, they say, oh no, sir,
Speaker 1: we got to go left because that's where the crowds
Speaker 1: are and we've been working hard to assemble them. And
Speaker 1: I wonder just in terms of that, And I want
Speaker 1: to get back to answering your question, but I want
Speaker 1: to just applaudge you for doing these red state tours.
Speaker 1: But do you fear and I'm curious of your experiences
Speaker 1: like this when you go into those crowds, which were huge.
Speaker 1: You were in Omaha, you were in Ohio and Iowa
Speaker 1: excuse me as well, and you had huge crowds. But
Speaker 1: do you fear they're just you were talking to our
Speaker 1: same folks or do you feel like there's a bunch
Speaker 1: of Republicans that were there to listen to you?
Speaker 3: Now see, I don't fear it, but I I think
Speaker 3: we need to be honest with ourselves. The folks who
Speaker 3: took a beautiful Friday afternoon in de Mooinne to come
Speaker 3: listen to Tim Walls speak probably have a pretty good
Speaker 3: opinion of me in the first place. But that's probably
Speaker 3: too That's okay because they're screaming what are you guys
Speaker 3: going to do about it? But I do tell you
Speaker 3: there were some independence there. I doubt if there were
Speaker 3: a whole lot of Republicans. But I'll tell you what
Speaker 3: those Republicans were watching. And I think what I would
Speaker 3: say if I was them, is, look, our representative can
Speaker 3: do better than Walls. He should do it. He should
Speaker 3: get out there and do it. This is to put
Speaker 3: pressure on them to come forward, because then it really
Speaker 3: does become a debate about the critical issues. And like
Speaker 3: I said this, I you know they can just come
Speaker 3: and why did you cut the VA? Just tell us,
Speaker 3: tell us why you think that's a good idea because
Speaker 3: I would argue once again, eighty percent of Americans don't
Speaker 3: want to cut the VA, and you have to give
Speaker 3: them statistics and facts. And I think my purpose of
Speaker 3: this is is to force the hand of these folks,
Speaker 3: because I got to be honest with you. I think
Speaker 3: if they try and defend this stuff, they're going to lose.
Speaker 3: I believe strongly in that this isn't just us versus them,
Speaker 3: This is good policy versus bad policy.
Speaker 2: And so that's the purpose.
Speaker 3: But no, I want to be clear to folks who
Speaker 3: see that the folks showing up are excited.
Speaker 2: But here's my thing. Four months after.
Speaker 3: Losing this critical election, our base is still engaged. So
Speaker 3: I think that polling is interesting Gavin that it doesn't
Speaker 3: mean that there's less Democrats. And the reason that number
Speaker 3: is so low is if you pull every single year,
Speaker 3: if you ask the Republican Party their opinion of the
Speaker 3: Democratic Party, it's very low. The reason our numbers are
Speaker 3: so low is those are Democrats.
Speaker 1: Yep, sixty three percent feel and I was grateful with.
Speaker 2: Sixty three percent. Still, here's what I say. I'm not
Speaker 2: a Democrat, I'm Democratic farmer labor. I'm the one person
Speaker 2: in the country.
Speaker 3: We're dfl so and I actually think, Gavin, this is
Speaker 3: an interesting point. While I won't cry and tell you
Speaker 3: we've kept the farmers all with us or whatever, we
Speaker 3: have kept some of them like Farmers Union in Minnesota
Speaker 3: and these issues around water quality and different things, and
Speaker 3: we're labor and.
Speaker 2: In Minnesota we really do.
Speaker 3: This was a marriage between the Farmer Labor Party, which
Speaker 3: quite honestly was more progressive and leaning into the issues
Speaker 3: of the working class and Democrats. And so I think
Speaker 3: on a national level, we're going to have the conversation
Speaker 3: of who we are because, like you said it.
Speaker 2: People don't believe we're with them. They think we're a leaders.
Speaker 1: What I love about what you did is you're meeting
Speaker 1: people where they are going into red states, but you're
Speaker 1: also not just meetium where they are. You're showing respect,
Speaker 1: you're not turning your back because you're looking an electoral
Speaker 1: map and recent experience say it's just seven swing states
Speaker 1: and that's all our need to focus on. And I
Speaker 1: think one of the things the Democratic Party absolutely needs
Speaker 1: to do is we need to respect the fact that
Speaker 1: we have to represent the American people, and that means
Speaker 1: all fifty states, and so keeping going back, showing up matters.
Speaker 3: Howard Dean was right fifty strategy and just to be
Speaker 3: candid as one of the fringe, you know, kind of
Speaker 3: washed in with the wave in two thousand and six
Speaker 3: when there was the big Democratic wave, it was because
Speaker 3: of Howard Dean and a few folks that were out
Speaker 3: there that were saying, expand the map. Rama Manual of
Speaker 3: all people was one of them. Two said we need
Speaker 3: to expand the map everywhere. They went into a district
Speaker 3: that had one Democrat since eighteen ninety two and put
Speaker 3: a little money into it. And I want and so
Speaker 3: I think, if you want to govern this country, you
Speaker 3: can't tell Montana they don't matter, or Idaho or Mississippi.
Speaker 3: And look, you and I both know this. You also
Speaker 3: can't tell the Central Valley and things it were not
Speaker 3: everybody thinks, oh, California.
Speaker 1: Solid quiet, The counture two thirds of the map is
Speaker 1: deeply red. I mean it's, you know, just America, only
Speaker 1: more so in California, more hunters, more ranchers, more farmers,
Speaker 1: and then other states and still the largest manufacturing state
Speaker 1: in America. People forget that as well. So this notion
Speaker 1: of industrial policy that's worker centered, so I have.
Speaker 3: To say I appreciate and you're you're going on talking
Speaker 3: to it, you know. And I get frustrated with some
Speaker 3: of these folks, you know. I get frustrated with the
Speaker 3: talking heads and the folks who I think are bad actors.
Speaker 3: I don't get frustrated with my neighbors who are voting them.
Speaker 3: I don't understand it as well, but I'm trying to
Speaker 3: get them. You know, we have to figure out a
Speaker 3: way that we're not The Republicans have done a good
Speaker 3: job of this.
Speaker 2: We're the enemy now.
Speaker 3: Now we're in this situation where they see Russians as
Speaker 3: being more trustworthy than us.
Speaker 2: You know, that's a sad state to be in.
Speaker 1: Unbelievable state.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I.
Speaker 3: Don't know, again don't I don't know if I've got
Speaker 3: the ability to bring back those seventy seven million. I
Speaker 3: do believe we've got the ability to get the disenfranchised
Speaker 3: folks who are seeing the damage here. And I think
Speaker 3: that's really important because this is truly, this isn't about
Speaker 3: winning elections. This is about what's best for the country.
Speaker 3: And you'll never convince me siding with Putin and North
Speaker 3: Korea it's good for the country, or fighting a trade
Speaker 3: war with Canada and Mexico's good for the country.
Speaker 2: I don't buy it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, friends, And what more evidence we need to underscore
Speaker 1: this notion of these principles And what's happened today with
Speaker 1: the Alien Enemies Act seventy hundreds and the deportation and
Speaker 1: just I mean, it's this to me, of all the
Speaker 1: things that has happened during the Trump administration, the notion
Speaker 1: that you can completely disregard the Federal Court and literally
Speaker 1: challenged the court and for me, just just blatantly in
Speaker 1: contempt of court. I mean, that's that's the cornerstone of
Speaker 1: this constitutional democracy.
Speaker 3: And here's what fascinates me is if that came up.
Speaker 3: I watched the Sunday talk shows yesterday. It was all
Speaker 3: about what's wrong with the Democratic Party?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Why do we buy their arguments? Why are we fighting fringe,
Speaker 3: red herring issues that get Democrats at Democrats that the
Speaker 3: Democratic activists screaming at other Democrats? How do we And
Speaker 3: I did it, Gavin, I admitted it. I took the
Speaker 3: dogs in cats argument and ran right with it, and
Speaker 3: he sucked me in. We have been in these issues
Speaker 3: where we may not all agree on all the issue,
Speaker 3: but we buy their frame. And then you have Democrats
Speaker 3: fighting against Democrats and they sail above it.
Speaker 1: They say above it. I mean, so, then you don't
Speaker 1: want me ask the Schumer question in the shutdown because
Speaker 1: it falls right into that frame, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Yes, And having served in Congress, you're an executive, you
Speaker 3: know what make the hard. I put out a budget
Speaker 3: and everybody's angry with me, all my friends, you know,
Speaker 3: including teachers who I'm looking out for them. But you
Speaker 3: have to do these things. But I think it's in
Speaker 3: the moment with this, and I look, and this is
Speaker 3: where Democrats we actually care about the institutions and we
Speaker 3: care about people.
Speaker 2: Like you know.
Speaker 3: My opinion on this is I believe Chuck one hundred
Speaker 3: percent believes that he made a decision that reduced the
Speaker 3: pain and the risk to Americans. I see it now
Speaker 3: that we're in a point where I think we're in
Speaker 3: a new world. That pain is coming anyway, and I
Speaker 3: think with you, with you, yeah, And they think we
Speaker 3: gave up our leverage. And to make it clear, who
Speaker 3: owns this because now to the American public who doesn't
Speaker 3: do this for a living and is out doing their job.
Speaker 2: They said, well, they.
Speaker 3: Passed this budget and they agreed with Donald Trump, and
Speaker 3: now we all own that. I think you should have
Speaker 3: made Donald Trump justify why things were getting so bad,
Speaker 3: and we as governors would do our best to protect
Speaker 3: the most vulnerable. That seemed to me to be the
Speaker 3: fight we should have had. But I think the public
Speaker 3: saying is you guys weren't even coordinated on that. You
Speaker 3: know you already weren't we weren't.
Speaker 1: Let me, I mean, just let me ask you, as
Speaker 1: a party leader, are you? I mean, there's this notion
Speaker 1: people say, well, what's the party doing? Who is the party?
Speaker 1: And I'm asking you, I'm serious. Is the party of
Speaker 1: the DNC? Is the party? You? And Harris? Is the party?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: Party? Is it? Chuck? And Akeem? Who is the party?
Speaker 1: Is it a DGA?
Speaker 3: I go back to it again, Kevin. It's not a
Speaker 3: flippant romant. It's the people. And then in a democracy
Speaker 3: they send people forward to be able to do this.
Speaker 3: The party is not leadership. The party is there to
Speaker 3: enable And I know for me, I wouldn't have got
Speaker 3: elected as a high school teacher with no connections, no
Speaker 3: political experience if I wouldn't have been able to go
Speaker 3: to Worthington, Minnesota and meet a woman named deb Howkan's
Speaker 3: and who already knew how to organize a little get
Speaker 3: together and put me in front of forty people and
Speaker 3: let me give my little speech. That's what the party
Speaker 3: was supposed to do. My job was to hear and
Speaker 3: reflect from them and then take our values and vote
Speaker 3: for them. And I think we've gotten ourselves in this
Speaker 3: bind where we think there's going to be one person now.
Speaker 2: I want to be very clear about this.
Speaker 3: It doesn't excuse any of us for not being organized, coordinated, thoughtful,
Speaker 3: delivering a unified message.
Speaker 1: And by the way, Tim, we're not doing that. And
Speaker 1: you know we're not doing that. I don't get calls.
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't coordinate. There's no deep coordinating. Heck,
Speaker 1: even in our DGA meetings. Let's have that conversation that
Speaker 1: we're not even focused on policy. It's nice to see
Speaker 1: each other. We have those side conversations, we'll have panels,
Speaker 1: and we will discuss in some respects and policy, but
Speaker 1: at the gubernatorial level, when we're all together, we tend
Speaker 1: to be having tactical conversations about elections.
Speaker 2: We're probably more unified than anybody too.
Speaker 1: And we are ironically more unified.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not a call.
Speaker 3: But and again are the folks who are out there,
Speaker 3: whether are on social media or the folks at the
Speaker 3: local coffee shop or whatever. They want us to have
Speaker 3: a unified message. Here's where I really think they've missed
Speaker 3: in DC on this. It does feel to me that
Speaker 3: despite those numbers, the Democratic Party is unified. They're unified
Speaker 3: in being pissed off at the Democratic.
Speaker 2: Party, you know, and they argutified in that Donald Trump's
Speaker 2: policies are going to hurt people.
Speaker 3: So I would argue Gavin that there's an argument in here,
Speaker 3: and then I'm going to I like him a lot,
Speaker 3: and I think he's right. I think Ezra Klin is
Speaker 3: giving us a bit of a road kicking the butt.
Speaker 3: We blindly say all of our democratic institutions and our
Speaker 3: government institutions are unquestionably working as well as they should.
Speaker 3: We open it up, we should be striving to do
Speaker 3: things better. We should acknowledge I'm trying to do it
Speaker 3: here in Minnesota. I'm not going to cut, you know,
Speaker 3: safeguards around permitting, but I will be the first to
Speaker 3: acknowledge it takes us too long to permit projects. There
Speaker 3: you go and it bogs down systems, And I started,
Speaker 3: you know, we have to bring people in who look,
Speaker 3: you're you're going to cater to corporate interests or whatever. No,
Speaker 3: I'm trying to make it easier to build a solar
Speaker 3: field and be able to get that out there. I'm
Speaker 3: trying to make it easier for somebody to bring in
Speaker 3: a new business, but not sacrifice workers' safety, environmental safety
Speaker 3: in that.
Speaker 2: And we don't acknowledge that enough. I don't think.
Speaker 1: There you go and they.
Speaker 3: You know, all the Republicans are I'll cut your taxes
Speaker 3: and you know, we'll cut government spending. But now you
Speaker 3: have all these stories people saying, well, I voted for
Speaker 3: Trump and I wanted them to cut government spending.
Speaker 2: But I didn't mean me. I didn't mean my stuff.
Speaker 3: We as Democrats have to connect that government does deliver positives,
Speaker 3: does deliver things, but we also.
Speaker 2: Are were fallible and in some cases we get in
Speaker 2: the way. So say it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love to. I mean, by the way, we're
Speaker 1: gonna have Ezra Client on the podcast next week talking
Speaker 1: specifically about this.
Speaker 2: Ali thanks for.
Speaker 3: Me because I agree with him on this. I think
Speaker 3: he's trying to figure out a better way, that this
Speaker 3: isn't an all or nothing, And this is an advantage
Speaker 3: for us because Republicans are telling people that all government stinks.
Speaker 3: You're going to regret this. And I was down in
Speaker 3: Iowa when the tornadoes are hitting. It's really good to
Speaker 3: have weather forecasting. Really it makes no sense, So tell
Speaker 3: that story.
Speaker 1: That's important. And look, I mean for things to change,
Speaker 1: we have to change, and I think we have to
Speaker 1: own what you know, we can control the controllables, and
Speaker 1: that's how we govern and be more effective. And in
Speaker 1: so many ways the world we invented is competing against
Speaker 1: us as it relates to the paralysis of analysis and
Speaker 1: process years and years. As you say to not just
Speaker 1: you know, get a permit, but even to zone a
Speaker 1: solar projects. This is not just about large factories spewing pollution.
Speaker 1: This is also about the transition to low carbon, green
Speaker 1: growth economy. So I couldn't agree with your sentiment, and
Speaker 1: I appreciate Ezra and others bringing that up. Let me
Speaker 1: ask you, though, just broadly on the issue of the asymmetry,
Speaker 1: because we keep dancing around this and there is asymmetry
Speaker 1: in terms of the communication. You talked about how you're
Speaker 1: perceived after this election despite unprecedented amounts of money that
Speaker 1: you guys spent Harris Walt on the campaign trying to
Speaker 1: define our brand, but how successful they were defining us
Speaker 1: as opposed to Democrats defining them. It's important underscore. I
Speaker 1: don't think people appreciate this. You look at podcasts, nine
Speaker 1: out of the ten most influential podcasts skewed to the right,
Speaker 1: nine out of ten. Thank you to the podsey folks
Speaker 1: for saving us at least allowing us to fight. You've
Speaker 1: got fourteen of the fifteen top rated TV shows, fourteen
Speaker 1: of the fifteen on Fox. You've got Sinclair Broadcasting that's
Speaker 1: filling that void with local newspapers, with one hundred and
Speaker 1: eighty five plus stations flooding the zone coordinated attacks. They're
Speaker 1: staying on message, they're not allowing distractions to get them distracted,
Speaker 1: and they're reinforcing a message that's it seems to me
Speaker 1: be a wake up call to the Democratic Party to
Speaker 1: figure that out.
Speaker 3: Yeah no, and look adjacent to this, Voice of America
Speaker 3: went silent today, which I tell you having listened to
Speaker 3: Voice America living in Asia in eighty nine. I found
Speaker 3: out that the Berlin Wall fell through Voice of America.
Speaker 3: And there's a reason that they didn't want you to
Speaker 3: hear that when you're living in China, because that's pretty
Speaker 3: threatening to their way of doing things. So I think
Speaker 3: we haven't conveyed the power of that communication, and as
Speaker 3: the landscape has changed so greatly, because look, I know
Speaker 3: you're taking a risk doing a podcast, doing something to
Speaker 3: try and fill a void that's out there, and hopefully
Speaker 3: trying to use it as a platform to articulate our
Speaker 3: values to a different or broader audience.
Speaker 2: But we've not figured this out yet.
Speaker 3: And don't do I think we'd have won this election
Speaker 3: if we'd have gone on one of those podcasts. No, No,
Speaker 3: probably not. But I don't think we'd got beat by more,
Speaker 3: know what I mean. I don't think I think would
Speaker 3: have been a chance. But I think any place we
Speaker 3: can go to talk about our values. The value of
Speaker 3: these town halls, too, Gavin, is that they slow things
Speaker 3: down and you can talk things through. And I think
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you start finding out,
Speaker 3: you know, there are people out there saying, well, I
Speaker 3: didn't really realize that I didn't see it that way,
Speaker 3: But where is guilty of this too? I want to
Speaker 3: go on to places where I get you know, confirmation bias.
Speaker 3: USh I already believe it, and.
Speaker 1: Then of course people turn to We've.
Speaker 3: Got to broaden it. We've got to get to more people.
Speaker 3: We've got to recognize the disconnect between our policies and
Speaker 3: how people view them. And I think we always this
Speaker 3: is just me. I'm going to say it that I
Speaker 3: think somebody's got to be big and strategic and macro.
Speaker 3: I just look at every one of these issues through
Speaker 3: the individual lens how it's impacting them, and I try
Speaker 3: and stay in that space. And I'll be the first
Speaker 3: to admit to you I view most issues through the
Speaker 3: eyes of a teacher. It's just who I am, like
Speaker 3: a thing when those kids come in the classroom. That
Speaker 3: means I view homelessness, food, insecurity, you know, inclusion. I
Speaker 3: view all of those things through the eye of a teacher,
Speaker 3: what it means to be in that because I believe
Speaker 3: that that's that in America, that's the great hope, the
Speaker 3: great equalizer, the great experiment, and so something in there
Speaker 3: were missing in a pretty big way.
Speaker 1: Obviously, I think the biggest and the most alarming part
Speaker 1: of these polls and is that people feel we're out
Speaker 1: of touch. And despite what I thought was an incredibly
Speaker 1: effective campaign in terms of highlighting the needs of the
Speaker 1: American people, I thought just the importance of having you
Speaker 1: on the ticket to articulate exactly what you just articulated
Speaker 1: really reinforced and underscored the benefits of someone that is
Speaker 1: able to know, through your lived experience and through your eyes,
Speaker 1: be able to express what I think the vast majority
Speaker 1: of people embrace. But again they're still not embracing what were.
Speaker 2: The idea again? And you think it's because we appear.
Speaker 1: We Yeah, Bill Clinton said it been on anyone years
Speaker 1: and years ago after slacking given the choice, I'm paraphrasing
Speaker 1: the American people will always support strong and wrong versus
Speaker 1: weak and right.
Speaker 3: Because I saw it from me, and not that I
Speaker 3: spend much time thinking about this, and it just baffled
Speaker 3: me how much time they spent trying to attack me
Speaker 3: that I wasn't like masculine enough in their vision, Like
Speaker 3: I would have never believed this. I saw Fox News
Speaker 3: did like a couple of days because I used a
Speaker 3: straw and I'm like, hell, man, what am I how
Speaker 3: else do you drink a milkshake type of thing. But
Speaker 3: they focused on it obsessively, which I think again is
Speaker 3: their obsession, their weirdness. We buy their frame on these
Speaker 3: issues of sexuality, you know, but their whole thing was
Speaker 3: is that they spent all their time, these guys on
Speaker 3: Fox News that Walls is gay, not masculine. You know,
Speaker 3: he doesn't coach football the way he should or doesn't.
Speaker 3: What do you think about this?
Speaker 2: I mean, because it is a misogyny in here that's happened. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, but this notion of masculinity is deeply part of it.
Speaker 1: That's one of the I mean, I think it goes
Speaker 1: you know, and you can look at the reasons why
Speaker 1: we've had this sort of dialectic over the Meat Too movement.
Speaker 1: We've had this dialectic even prior to the met To movement.
Speaker 1: This notion and well, this, this notion get.
Speaker 2: Most of their ass I do that. I know I
Speaker 2: can run them, but I don't know if we're going
Speaker 2: to fall into that place where we want to.
Speaker 3: Okay, we challenge you to a do you know, a
Speaker 3: wwe fight here type of thing.
Speaker 1: But it is it's a natural reaction. I think it's
Speaker 1: one of the reasons we're losing so many men, and
Speaker 1: again it's multi ethnic. It's not just white men. We're
Speaker 1: losing them. We're losing them to these guys online. We're
Speaker 1: losing the people that I'm bringing on this podcast as well.
Speaker 2: These are bad guys though, These are bad guys.
Speaker 1: But they exist, and we could deny the exist. They exist.
Speaker 1: Not only the exist, they persist, and they're actually influencing
Speaker 1: young kids every single day.
Speaker 2: How do we put some of those guys back under
Speaker 2: a rock.
Speaker 1: I think we have to first understand what their motivations are.
Speaker 1: I think we have to understand what they're actually doing.
Speaker 2: And I don't think that's a racism and misogyny.
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of that, but I don't
Speaker 1: think it's exclusive will be that. When you talk to
Speaker 1: a guy like Steve Bannon, you know, he reminded me
Speaker 1: a little bit of my grandfather when he talks about
Speaker 1: working folks and he talks about how we hollowed out
Speaker 1: the industrial coilist country. I understand that. But so we
Speaker 1: can dismiss the notion of election denihalism, we could completely
Speaker 1: dismiss what he did on January sixth, but I don't
Speaker 1: think you can dismiss. What he's saying reminds me a
Speaker 1: lot of what Bernie Sanders was saying, reminds me a
Speaker 1: lot of what democrats said twenty thirty years ago.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's arguing he must right.
Speaker 1: He hates musk, he hates the oligarchy. He totally agrees
Speaker 1: with you on the concentration of monopolistic powers. He completely
Speaker 1: dismisses the notion that we should extend the tax cuts
Speaker 1: for corporations and the very wealthy. He thinks we should
Speaker 1: lower taxes for the middle class and wants to see
Speaker 1: increase taxes.
Speaker 2: But now when people say we should message, I can't
Speaker 2: message to misogynists. I can't message that women shouldn't have you.
Speaker 1: But I think if we say people are misogynists, then
Speaker 1: we're falling prey. We're in that frame. Not everybody that
Speaker 1: disagrees with us is a misogynist. But I think this
Speaker 1: notion of toxicity in masculinity us to be separated, and
Speaker 1: I think it's been conflated, and I think we're going
Speaker 1: to have to work on that a little bit.
Speaker 3: I think some of us scare them. I think I
Speaker 3: scare them a little bit. Why they spend so much
Speaker 3: time on it. No, I'm serious, because I can't fix
Speaker 3: the truck. They know I'm not bullshitting on this. I'm
Speaker 3: not putting this in people's grill. I don't know if
Speaker 3: my identity is not hunting, my identity is not football coaching,
Speaker 3: My identity is not you know, a beard in a truck.
Speaker 2: I like all those things. But how did we get
Speaker 2: to this?
Speaker 3: Where have they figured it out that the identity piece
Speaker 3: of this is more important than the actual substance behind.
Speaker 1: Well, they've been doing it for decades. I mean, we've
Speaker 1: saw the welfare queen's They've seen the Southern strategy. We've
Speaker 1: seen it over and over. It's an old playbook, and
Speaker 1: we're as dumb as we want to be that we
Speaker 1: allow them to do this with CRT and ESG and
Speaker 1: DEI and every three letter word. And they demonize people, Yeah, demonized,
Speaker 1: and they weaponize grievance. They other people, They talk down
Speaker 1: to people, past people, they humiliate people, they weaponize difficult issues.
Speaker 1: But the problem line is, and I think it goes
Speaker 1: back to what we began with is and I applaud
Speaker 1: you for this, is we cannot continue to be on
Speaker 1: the defense reacting to this, We've got to go on
Speaker 1: the offense. We've got to meet people where they are.
Speaker 1: But I also think this and this is where you know,
Speaker 1: this is part of the conversation I'm trying to have
Speaker 1: is you got to respect people you disagree with, even
Speaker 1: you can't just dismiss people. We can't just turn our
Speaker 1: back on people. What you've learned from those guys that
Speaker 1: not only they have a huge following, there's a rationale,
Speaker 1: there's a ration. Look for Steve Banner. I'm not here
Speaker 1: to defend Steve Banner. I couldn't agree with you more
Speaker 1: as it relates to what he did on an election
Speaker 1: denihilism and you know, look that guy that he is.
Speaker 1: There's we could spend hours and hours going down the
Speaker 1: rabbit hole of Steve Bannett. But what he's talking about
Speaker 1: in terms of populism, what he's talking about in terms
Speaker 1: of working folks, what he's talking about from a global construct,
Speaker 1: about what's happened to Middle America and rural Americans and
Speaker 1: why they've lost trust with our party. What he's talking
Speaker 1: about with what's happening with men in this country and
Speaker 1: how they've lost their way and how they have significantly
Speaker 1: higher suicide rates. Lives of that are, you know, more
Speaker 1: despair and isolation. I think those are real issues that
Speaker 1: our party needs to come to grit.
Speaker 3: Their populism went not over ours, because I'm actually a
Speaker 3: Prairie populist.
Speaker 1: But I think we stopped talking about those things. We're
Speaker 1: not talking about what's going on with men in this
Speaker 1: guy my wife did a documentary called The Mask You
Speaker 1: Live In fifteen years ago, was talking about these things. Somehow,
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened. The party never picked up
Speaker 1: on these core things. There's trend lin. I mean, Scott
Speaker 1: Galloway gets it. He's a good, good guy across the board.
Speaker 1: There's a crisis of men and masculine in this country,
Speaker 1: and that's a hard thing for Democrats because we want
Speaker 1: to lift up women, we want to lift up the oppressed.
Speaker 2: I think some of that comes from the dread as
Speaker 2: we lift up.
Speaker 3: I always use this analogy that there's a whole bunch
Speaker 3: of people Gavin that see rights like a pie. If
Speaker 3: somebody gets some, they lose part of their pie. Yeah,
Speaker 3: ridiculous that way expanding rights that there's no one I
Speaker 3: keep coming back to that idea and this idea of
Speaker 3: freedom that well, that can be everybody. I don't know
Speaker 3: why they're in these small, little, narrow, divisive issues other
Speaker 3: than I think some of these people are masterful at
Speaker 3: it so they can get to their two goal, which
Speaker 3: is to cut taxes for the wealthy and shift shift
Speaker 3: wealth in their direction.
Speaker 1: And by the way, and concurrently increase taxes for the
Speaker 1: middle class and the poor. And people forget that some
Speaker 1: of the highest tax plays. I mean, I live in
Speaker 1: a state and like your state was literally I mean,
Speaker 1: look exactly, by the way, what's what Bannon is arguing for,
Speaker 1: which is interesting and ironic considering some of the punitry.
Speaker 1: But let me just you know, make this point because
Speaker 1: it needs to be made. In Florida and Texas, they
Speaker 1: tax their poorest more than we tack our riches. The
Speaker 1: hell are we losing this tax debate?
Speaker 2: Yes? Who are you for percent? You'll pay more high
Speaker 2: tax states apparently. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And they have higher infant mentality, higher maternal mentality, lower wages,
Speaker 1: they have lower ensured.
Speaker 2: Lower life expect every Yeah.
Speaker 1: And by the way, seventy one I'm going to keep going.
Speaker 1: Seventy one percent of the economy in this country are
Speaker 1: Metro Blue Metro. So point being it's not that we're
Speaker 1: not right, but I think we're wrong not to understand
Speaker 1: more deeply and fully that people think we are deeply
Speaker 1: full of ourselves and we're talking down to people and
Speaker 1: past people. People want to be protected, they want to
Speaker 1: be respected, and they want to be connected. And I
Speaker 1: think this notion of respect is something that keeps coming
Speaker 1: back to me. People that just feel like we don't
Speaker 1: respect them.
Speaker 3: How do we do that, though heaven and lay down
Speaker 3: a clear marker that you're not going to demonize LGBTQ people.
Speaker 2: We're not going to happen.
Speaker 3: How do we lay that market on because I'm not
Speaker 3: going to get into their their space with them of
Speaker 3: that that's what a man looks like, you know, demonizing
Speaker 3: these How do we stay firm, show that we're committed
Speaker 3: and not compromise on those values that we care about.
Speaker 1: I mean, do we continue to do what you and
Speaker 1: I have done. We've led the nation in terms of
Speaker 1: laws anti discrimination laws. We have the back of our
Speaker 1: diverse communities. We don't just rhetorically say that we've done
Speaker 1: it through laws and regulations. We stand firm at the
Speaker 1: same time, you know, with respect. And this is where obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, I've kind of It's not like it even
Speaker 1: a break. I just think there's there are areas where
Speaker 1: we may overreach, and I think we have to acknowledge
Speaker 1: that as well. And if you don't acknowledge that, then
Speaker 1: I think you're going to lose people on everything else.
Speaker 1: I mean, I look at the issue of gay marriage,
Speaker 1: and remember I was in two thousand and four when
Speaker 1: our party was dismissing me because I sat and I
Speaker 1: said it was wrong to deny people the right to
Speaker 1: get buried or they're one of the same sex. And
Speaker 1: my party vehemently opposed that, and they were very vocal
Speaker 1: about it, the major leaders in our party.
Speaker 2: I remember this. I ran on it in two thousand
Speaker 2: and six in a conservative district.
Speaker 1: God bless you, and stood on principle.
Speaker 2: Are we not doing that enough right now?
Speaker 1: No, we are doing that. We continue to do that.
Speaker 1: I think we're firm in our foundation in terms of
Speaker 1: supporting our diverse communities. It's not that I think there's
Speaker 1: a broader message lot and there's a whole there's a
Speaker 1: whole world out there that's not just about protecting those rights,
Speaker 1: it's about also a knowledging the pain that other people
Speaker 1: are feeling that often are not part of our rhetoric
Speaker 1: and our agenda, and that's what I think we need
Speaker 1: to exploit it.
Speaker 2: You're on I'm curious to listen.
Speaker 3: I want to listen to Ezra next week because because
Speaker 3: I think that's the other thing that I think we
Speaker 3: talk a lot, and we have to deliver more.
Speaker 2: You've delivered.
Speaker 3: I think we've delivered in Minnesota, and I've seen this.
Speaker 3: When you deliver on things that improve people's lives, it's
Speaker 3: amazing how good the politics is behind that if you
Speaker 3: have good policies and get things done. And part of
Speaker 3: that is I think where Ezra's getting that is is
Speaker 3: do your best work, but acknowledge you know, really this
Speaker 3: agency is not doing that much for people. Like I'm
Speaker 3: doing this thing, just simple things to make them getting
Speaker 3: their driver's license eesier. You and I both deal with
Speaker 3: this the DMV, Like I'm trying to find why do
Speaker 3: we make them go every year? Maybe we should go
Speaker 3: every two years, you know, just something that people want
Speaker 3: to see. We did this thing where you can now
Speaker 3: get your license tabs through a vending machine at cub Foods,
Speaker 3: so you just go up there. It takes you too
Speaker 3: many that you put in your stuff and it spits
Speaker 3: out your tabs. You put your tabs on. That one
Speaker 3: to me is as conservatives are like good, I didn't
Speaker 3: have to deal with government. It was efficient, it was easy,
Speaker 3: but that was government. But it was good functioning government.
Speaker 1: That's it. And that's that's so you were Doge before
Speaker 1: Doge without the pejorda sense of Joge, which.
Speaker 2: Is not about that.
Speaker 1: It's about that's about recklessness, that's just about destroying the
Speaker 1: administrative state. But what you're talking about is government efficiency,
Speaker 1: focusing on outcomes not just inputs, meaning customers where they are,
Speaker 1: which I love, and that's got to be part of
Speaker 1: our core messaging. And I think that's our challenge with
Speaker 1: Doge is we're reacting to Doge by saying it's all terrible,
Speaker 1: which it has been to date. For this notion of
Speaker 1: government efficiency.
Speaker 2: It works so well formed because people believe that.
Speaker 3: And look, there's been forty years since you know, your
Speaker 3: predecessor Reagan told them. You know, you don't want to
Speaker 3: see government coming. Government can be a great force of good,
Speaker 3: whether it's protecting your personal rights, whether it's Indivadie look.
Speaker 2: Good for SpaceX.
Speaker 3: I hope they succeed, but let's be clear, SpaceX stands
Speaker 3: on the shoulders of NASA giants and that's our taxpayer
Speaker 3: dollar that did that. There are great things, but I've
Speaker 3: always been a firm believer we can do the research,
Speaker 3: send it into the private sector, let them improve, you know,
Speaker 3: monetize it, and help people as long as there's guardrails.
Speaker 3: I think we find ourselves now pushing back anything that's
Speaker 3: business oriented. We're kind of negative to. I feel I'm
Speaker 3: hearing it from the business community. Look like they don't
Speaker 3: like Trump right now. They're not being courageous enough, in
Speaker 3: my opinion, to speak out, but they don't like this.
Speaker 3: But they also say, well, I don't hear a lot
Speaker 3: from you guys saying that, you know, these businesses added
Speaker 3: to the cultural you know, tapestry of Minneapolis.
Speaker 1: My found I thought, I thought it was a master class.
Speaker 1: It offended all of us. It offended me. But also
Speaker 1: I thought it was a master class to have all
Speaker 1: those folks up there on stage. I mean, Trump was
Speaker 1: able to communicate without saying a word, his support for
Speaker 1: free enterprise. The same time it was I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: it was kind of humiliating. For those folks that felt
Speaker 1: they had to go up there. I think it was
Speaker 1: fear that they were up there for though, yeah course,
Speaker 1: I mean they had to fall in line. I mean,
Speaker 1: this guy doesn't play by any rules, and that's why
Speaker 1: there's more options Democrats can't cover by fear.
Speaker 3: But I've said this, Gavin, I talked fourth grade. Fear
Speaker 3: is an incredible short term motivator, so you change behaviors.
Speaker 2: Though for the long run, what are we going to
Speaker 2: have to do?
Speaker 3: You know, you feel this excitement, you have these rallies,
Speaker 3: but what's that translating into. You know, what's that turning into?
Speaker 1: Well, I think I mean look back to I think
Speaker 1: this forensic that's not just tactical. It's not just about
Speaker 1: you know how we can sort of just stretch and
Speaker 1: get another twenty thirty thousand votes in these swing states.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's I think it's an opportunity
Speaker 1: for us to address some of the issues we just discussed.
Speaker 1: I love that you said you can't be pro job
Speaker 1: and anti business. I mean you made a case for
Speaker 1: entrepreneurialism and innovation and research and development. I love that.
Speaker 1: I want Democrats to talk more about that. I want
Speaker 1: us to talk more about not begrudging people's success, but
Speaker 1: celebrating success. Is to be the aspirational party. I want
Speaker 1: to talk about patriotism and pride, not just sorry and
Speaker 1: and sorry GUV, but just you know. Back to Clinton,
Speaker 1: I love what Bill Clinton said when he talked about community, opportunity,
Speaker 1: and responsibility. I think we don't talk enough about responsibility.
Speaker 1: And I appreciated the opportunity agenda. I appreciate our focus
Speaker 1: on community and building community, But what about responsibility? What
Speaker 1: about service? What about civics? What about these notions the
Speaker 1: things that bind us together, all our interesting differences. We're
Speaker 1: good at focusing on interesting differences, but what about the
Speaker 1: things that unite us together. I think that's what people
Speaker 1: want to hear from our party.
Speaker 2: People want to be part of something. That's why they're
Speaker 2: on with Trump. They're part of something, They're part of
Speaker 2: a team. I've always said this. In high school, I
Speaker 2: did everything. I coached all the sports, I worked on
Speaker 2: the play, the musical, I sponsored the student trips, I
Speaker 2: built the prom I did all that because what I
Speaker 2: understood was is kids will gravitate to groups, and it's
Speaker 2: better to be in the musical than in a gang.
Speaker 2: It's better to be with this group of kids in school,
Speaker 2: so we know this. If a kid is part of something,
Speaker 2: they do that. And I'm telling you this disenfranchisement with men,
Speaker 2: this not being there. Whatever they might have played on
Speaker 2: football teams, I think Trump gives them that feeling that
Speaker 2: I'm on the team.
Speaker 3: I wear the same colors I do all this, don't look.
Speaker 3: You can laugh while you want about red hats. People
Speaker 3: like those damn things, don't they. And maybe some of
Speaker 3: it's sticking it in our grill, but I think it's
Speaker 3: being part of something bigger than themselves. And right now
Speaker 3: the Democratic Party doesn't feel like something bigger than themselves,
Speaker 3: and that's our whole goal.
Speaker 2: Community.
Speaker 1: I love it, no look, And that's why I'm such
Speaker 1: a believer in service, such a believer in shared experiences.
Speaker 3: And I just kind to copy what you did on
Speaker 3: the service stuff. I said, Stanley Macrystal. You there's a
Speaker 3: few folks out there talking about this, you know, use
Speaker 3: service learning and these types of things. Stuff I've been
Speaker 3: interested in too. From the teacher perspective. If you do that,
Speaker 3: you are so engaged in your community. Now we celebrate
Speaker 3: and we rightfully should those who join and serve in
Speaker 3: the military. But there's numerous ways to serve your country,
Speaker 3: got it, not in uniform. And I'm thinking as we
Speaker 3: become more fragmented, our media becomes more fragmented, our TV
Speaker 3: becomes more fragmented. People want to be part of something.
Speaker 3: I think Trump knew that before us, and he brought
Speaker 3: them into that. And I you know, that's why you
Speaker 3: in the catchphrases and stuff. It may seem cheesy, but
Speaker 3: we're missing it. We're missing where people are not wanting
Speaker 3: to become part of something.
Speaker 1: I said, the universality of this notion of being protected
Speaker 1: and respected. But back to your point, one hundred percent
Speaker 1: agree connected. We all need to be connected. There's an
Speaker 1: unmooring that's going on in society. There's there's I mean,
Speaker 1: people just feel lost, they feel more isolated, they feel
Speaker 1: more alone, and again particularly for young men, and so
Speaker 1: I just think we have to acknowledge that, we have
Speaker 1: to address that, we have to be sensitive to that,
Speaker 1: and we have to be willing to have those conversations
Speaker 1: and not feel like we're playing into the right wing.
Speaker 1: When we're having those conversations.
Speaker 2: Politics will follow that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's it's in the politics. Go back to
Speaker 1: what you said, which I love mat its just the principle,
Speaker 1: Like what I love about you, and you know, and
Speaker 1: we're out of time, so I'm just going to end
Speaker 1: with just just mad respect is you're a man of principle,
Speaker 1: You're a man of values. You're a decent and honorable person.
Speaker 1: Forget the politician. What I love about the politician, Governor
Speaker 1: Walls is that you're all of those things I just
Speaker 1: said before the word politician.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: No, and we'll we'll find the political way back. But
Speaker 1: I think we have to have some humility in terms
Speaker 1: of where we are, and I think we we can't
Speaker 1: be I just think we have to be careful about
Speaker 1: being too dismissive of where they are and the progress
Speaker 1: they've made. And I know, I know you you broadly
Speaker 1: agree with that, and I think the vast majority of
Speaker 1: people do. But I think we're this is an existential
Speaker 1: moment and our unity, our unity against Trump, is not
Speaker 1: increasing our trust. It's not helping the Democratic brand.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: The more we attack Troupe, which is great, I mean,
Speaker 1: we've got to do it. We've got to hold them
Speaker 1: to account. And people, are you hear it? What do
Speaker 1: you say the primal screen?
Speaker 2: We got to offer them something, we got offer we.
Speaker 1: Have to exactly and that's what we need to I
Speaker 1: think that's that's that's the sole searching that we need.
Speaker 3: We have to be the vikings to their packers, is
Speaker 3: what I would say, Gavin.
Speaker 2: So we got to get people in.
Speaker 3: And I think I would say to your listeners and
Speaker 3: everybody out there that we're going to have to ruffle feathers.
Speaker 3: We as Democrats aren't going to agree on everything, but
Speaker 3: our values are still there and we have to figure
Speaker 3: out how to have that. And I would ask, you know,
Speaker 3: a frustrated and scared, to be honest with you, scared
Speaker 3: electorate to stay engaged. They are, that's what they're showing
Speaker 3: up those town halls. And then I would encourage our
Speaker 3: folks to listen and rise to the moment and do
Speaker 3: the things that we need to do to get back,
Speaker 3: not to win elections, but to influence policy in a
Speaker 3: positive way.
Speaker 2: So I'm grateful. I know you've got a big job.
Speaker 3: You govern a country, and you and.
Speaker 1: I both have day jobs which we can't forget. But look,
Speaker 1: this notion of a big tent, A big tent, that's
Speaker 1: what That's what built the middle class in the fifties, sixties,
Speaker 1: and seventies. What's brought us medicaid and medicare. That's what
Speaker 1: brought us the minimum wages we know it today. It
Speaker 1: was a big tent.
Speaker 2: Or unions lean into labor. Unions and labor.
Speaker 1: It's got to be workers center, industrial policy, that's workers centered. Uh.
Speaker 1: That's Tim Waltz my guest today here.
Speaker 2: On The Guy.
Speaker 1: This is Kevin Newsome. It's great to have you.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.