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Speaker 1: This is Gavin Newsom and this is Governor Tim Walls.

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Speaker 1: All right, Governor, it's great to have you on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being with us.

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Speaker 2: I am thanks for having me.

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Speaker 3: Uh, I'm kind of wondering where I follow this list

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Speaker 3: of guests, but I'm excited.

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Speaker 2: You're not be friends for a while, so we're not appreciated.

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Speaker 3: But you and I have talked about this for a while,

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Speaker 3: trying to trying to understand, uh, during a Trump presidency,

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Speaker 3: how do we best serve our folks? How do we

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Speaker 3: get back there? And the Democratic Party? I mean, we

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Speaker 3: all need to be very candid. Is is not all

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Speaker 3: that popular right now?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's how I wanted to start, just right up top.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the timing of this couldn't be more opportunistic

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Speaker 1: for both of us as Democratic governors. It's look, we're

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Speaker 1: in the tank. I mean, it's not just a rough spot.

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Speaker 1: It's an historically low at least in modern polling. Back

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Speaker 1: to the nineteen nineties. CNN had the Democratic Party brand

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Speaker 1: now down about twenty nine percent, and it was even

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Speaker 1: worse in an NBC pull that showed twenty seven percent

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Speaker 1: of people supporting our party. You've been out on the road.

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Speaker 1: You were just in a couple of red states. You've

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Speaker 1: been doing town halls. We've talked about this in the

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Speaker 1: past privately. It's not just about what you say and

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Speaker 1: how you say, it's also about where you say it.

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Speaker 1: So I love the fact that you were out there,

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Speaker 1: so give us a sense. I mean, what you're over

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Speaker 1: under is about where the hell our party is right now?

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Speaker 2: Well, and I think that's what people are doing.

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Speaker 3: Look, this is something hadn't been done, what you're doing,

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Speaker 3: and people are, you know, and they're we're trying to

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Speaker 3: enter spaces and look, I don't know if all of

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Speaker 3: them are going to work.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 3: But the fact of the matter is we don't want

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Speaker 3: to win elections just to say Democrats want elections. We

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Speaker 3: want to win elections to improve people's lives. When we're

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Speaker 3: losing elections, chaos reigns, which we're seeing right now. I'm

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Speaker 3: out of town hall and these folks are standing up.

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Speaker 3: They're a VA nurse, you know, they're concerned what's happening

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Speaker 3: in the VA. They're a farmer that's concerned. They are

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Speaker 3: folks that are concerned about their personal reproductive rights and

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Speaker 3: their life choices and if we can't be a respected

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Speaker 3: opposition or alternative, that really worries me. And I say this, Kevin,

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Speaker 3: that that I didn't I didn't go to the Democrats.

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Speaker 3: They came to me with social Security, with gi Bill.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was clear when at least my age

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Speaker 3: growing up, Democrats stood with working people, Republicans stood with

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Speaker 3: the wealthy, and there was nothing necessarily wrong with that

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Speaker 3: that you know, it was. It was at least an argument.

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Speaker 3: It feels much more polarized now, but people don't see

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Speaker 3: us as that.

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Speaker 1: It's they see exactly the opposite of that, that we're

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Speaker 1: the party of the elites, that we don't represent we

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Speaker 1: represent quote unquote others, we don't represent them. In this

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Speaker 1: notion that the working class now has been is embraced

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is extraordinary and so and what do you

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Speaker 1: I mean, the million out on the camp you were

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Speaker 1: out on the campaign show. I mean, it's such an

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Speaker 1: interesting conversation for me to have with you and for

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Speaker 1: those listening, because no one has more sort of a

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Speaker 1: contemporary ear to the ground than you do. Just coming

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Speaker 1: off a few months ago the campaign trail, meeting people

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Speaker 1: all across this country. I mean, these new numbers that

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Speaker 1: came out as CNN and NBC. I mean even you

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Speaker 1: had to be shocked by how far we've fallen as

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Speaker 1: a brand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Look, and I felt excitement out there, and our policies

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Speaker 3: are popular. By the way, when you pull our policies

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Speaker 3: like paid family, medical lead, support for the environment, reproductive rights,

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Speaker 3: they pulled very high.

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Speaker 2: We don't. So what I have to tell you, what

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Speaker 2: I take away.

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Speaker 3: From that, Gavin, is is that I think we got

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Speaker 3: to be very careful of drinking our own kool aid

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Speaker 3: or believing we're in our bubble, because I truly did

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Speaker 3: think we were going to win. And I say that

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Speaker 3: as someone who is run in traditionally red districts won

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Speaker 3: close races, and I felt like I had a feel,

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Speaker 3: and I think this is where we're going to have

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Speaker 3: to get out over our skis a bit, try new places.

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Speaker 2: I know we've had this argument. It was out there, Governor.

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Speaker 3: We didn't see you on a lot of you know,

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Speaker 3: things that weren't mainstream media. We didn't see you on podcasts.

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Speaker 3: We didn't see doing that. Are you willing to go

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Speaker 3: into those We need to be willing to go into

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Speaker 3: those spaces now, between you and Ikevin I don't think

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Speaker 3: we're going to win over those seventy seven million that

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Speaker 3: voted for Donald Trump. I'm concerned with the ninety million

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Speaker 3: who stayed home. Now, I'm concerned that our policies positively

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Speaker 3: impact those seventy seven million, because you and I represent

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Speaker 3: a lot of independence, Republicans, Greens as well as Democrats,

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Speaker 3: and we have responsibility. I don't know if we can

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Speaker 3: necessarily win them over, but I think the thing that

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Speaker 3: we should really soul search on is when the choice

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Speaker 3: was Donald Trump and JD. Van's and Kamala Harrison myself

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Speaker 3: and policies that we were clearly articulating. It got pretty

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Speaker 3: close seventy seven to seventy five type of thing. But

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Speaker 3: it's the ninety million that stayed home. Why did they

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Speaker 3: think we were the same, Why did they think we

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Speaker 3: weren't there?

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Speaker 2: And I don't.

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Speaker 3: I think by going into these spaces to be candid

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Speaker 3: with you, it allows people to express their frustrations, It

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Speaker 3: allows people to articulate what's happening in their lives. It

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Speaker 3: better also be a place where we're hearing and learning,

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Speaker 3: because I'm guessing you're hearing some things that you don't

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Speaker 3: normally hear.

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Speaker 2: When you're going on with some of these folks, you're

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Speaker 2: on with the understanding.

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Speaker 1: Here, and that's Yeah. This notion of uncomfortable conversations not

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Speaker 1: just conversations. But let me let me, let me step back.

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Speaker 1: I love what you said because it's interesting this notion

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Speaker 1: of our policies are popular, but our party is not popular,

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Speaker 1: and it begs the question some have asked me, and

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Speaker 1: I want to pose it to you. Do you think

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Speaker 1: one of the mistakes is we don't focus first on

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Speaker 1: what we stand for and then make the case the

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Speaker 1: policy that backs that up and reinforces it. That we

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Speaker 1: are not fundamentally meeting people where they are. They want

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Speaker 1: to know what we stand for.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's good. Yeah, And look, I and

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Speaker 3: I appreciate. I think we're going to be in hard places,

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Speaker 3: and I think we're going to get punched from both

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Speaker 3: sides doing some of this. But we're not in this too.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, we're not banking political capital to win

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Speaker 3: another election. We're trying to improve people's lives. And let's

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Speaker 3: all be very candas nobody's lives being improved right now

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Speaker 3: except billionaires, and I don't see that changing. And so

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Speaker 3: I think we're going to have to ask those questions.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of times the simple answer is

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Speaker 3: it's the messenger, you know, which all acknowledged. Maybe the

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Speaker 3: messenger is not good at this. I approach this always,

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Speaker 3: Kevin like a school teacher. I give a lesson and

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Speaker 3: then I do an assessment of that lesson, and half

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Speaker 3: the students didn't do very well on it. Well, I

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Speaker 3: don't assume that those half are terrible kids. I assume

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Speaker 3: that they have a different learning style, or they weren't

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Speaker 3: hearing the way I was teaching it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe these folks.

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Speaker 3: Were, you know, verbal learners, maybe they were kinesitic learners,

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Speaker 3: whatever it might be. I think we have to approach

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Speaker 3: the electorate like that, that we think we're telling them

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Speaker 3: where we're at.

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Speaker 2: But for whatever reason, you're right, and this pains me.

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Speaker 2: I tried to make the case. Look, I'm a public

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Speaker 2: school teacher, went to a public university, and according to

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Speaker 2: the Wall Street Journal, I'm the poorest person who ever

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Speaker 2: ran for vice president. That didn't matter to them.

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Speaker 3: And so the idea here that we were trying to

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Speaker 3: craft some one who, for whatever reason, there was a

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Speaker 3: number of people that didn't register with So I'm with

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Speaker 3: everybody else. And again when people ask me, I'm probably

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Speaker 3: the last person you should ask for answers because I

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Speaker 3: didn't get it done. But I do believe we were

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Speaker 3: making inroads, and I will have to tell you one

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Speaker 3: of the most powerful ones for me, Gavin. It's not

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Speaker 3: a great use of campaign time, but we were up

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Speaker 3: in Erie, Pennsylvania on Halloween before the election, and I

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Speaker 3: sat down with five undecided voters and we had a

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Speaker 3: forty five minute give and take on that. I think

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Speaker 3: I got three of them for sure. Maybe, but you

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Speaker 3: know that's how you view it. But the fact of

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Speaker 3: the matter was is it was really good for me too,

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Speaker 3: because it was coming back and forth and this guy says, well,

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Speaker 3: I didn't realize, you know, you understood farm policy like this,

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Speaker 3: because I'm not hearing that from you guys.

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Speaker 2: He was telling us.

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Speaker 3: He wasn't hearing that. I said, but I do know this,

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Speaker 3: I know the price of corn, I know all these

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Speaker 3: things work. So I think as Democrats, we're going to

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Speaker 3: have to push ourselves into uncomfortable spots and these town halls. Look,

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Speaker 3: I'll be the first technology of you. It's to highlight

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Speaker 3: that their members are Congress on the Republican side are

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Speaker 3: ashamed of Donald Trump's policies.

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Speaker 1: Is that? I mean, it was that fun foundationally, the

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Speaker 1: why was that the inspiration to go out and do it?

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Speaker 3: Yes, And I don't demonize these representatives. I honor their service.

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Speaker 3: I went out there, but I lived through this. I

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Speaker 3: went to the town halls during the ACA and I

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Speaker 3: made a full throated defense of President Obama's healthcare bill.

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Speaker 3: And I got reelected. Now it was a tough fight,

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Speaker 3: but I got reelected. These folks are not going out there,

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Speaker 3: and I'll tell you it's a huge mistake. Democrats did

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Speaker 3: this in twenty ten. Oh these are Republican operatives. They

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Speaker 3: were not Republican operatives. They were my neighbors who were

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Speaker 3: matter than hell. And we're getting misinformation. But I went

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Speaker 3: out and filled that void. I think we as Democrats

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Speaker 3: have left a void, and that Donald Trump is masterful.

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Speaker 3: Say what you will about this. I don't give him credit.

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Speaker 3: I don't think he's a genius. I don't think he

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Speaker 3: knows how stuff works. But I do think he knows

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Speaker 3: how media works. And I do think he knows that

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Speaker 3: if we're assuming people here are arguments, they're just so

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Speaker 3: SELFIH just like this teacher and me, I taught the

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Speaker 3: lesson this should be easy. Well, that's not how all

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Speaker 3: people learn. It's not all people's lives are at And again,

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Speaker 3: I don't if someone who doesn't believe a woman should

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Speaker 3: have the right to choose, if someone who doesn't believe

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Speaker 3: the president should be restrained by the constitution, I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to win them. But I don't believe that's a

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Speaker 3: very large percentage of the population. But why are they

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Speaker 3: not trusting us? What's your take? I mean, why are

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Speaker 3: what are you hearing when you hear this? Why are

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Speaker 3: people not trusting the message we were delivering? Because I

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Speaker 3: keep coming back to this. We needed to have immigration

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Speaker 3: reform to control our borders, and you can do that

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Speaker 3: with humanity. Donald Trump just said they're invading our country,

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Speaker 3: they're eating dogs and cats, and he got more votes.

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Speaker 3: Why is it so?

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Speaker 1: I mean, and I want to and I have strong

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Speaker 1: opinions on that, but I want to sort of stress

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Speaker 1: test yours again because I think it's interesting. Back to

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Speaker 1: my notion, and you say, you're the last person I'm

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Speaker 1: going to completely dismiss. I think you're the best position

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Speaker 1: to understand what's going on. But let me reflect on

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Speaker 1: this notion of you being teacher and reflecting on on

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Speaker 1: how your students did. Did you have an opportunity right

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Speaker 1: off the election to sit down over the course. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I hope you took time off with the family decompressed,

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Speaker 1: but you had to have had with your team these conversations.

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Speaker 1: Did you have them with the Harris team as well?

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Speaker 1: Did you have them with the campaign team? Have you

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Speaker 1: organized anything more formally even internally? You got books coming

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Speaker 1: out they're going to shape those internal conversations. You got

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Speaker 1: one book coming out in a few weeks called Fight

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Speaker 1: that is already starting to frame what did or did

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Speaker 1: not occur. Have you started that process or has that

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Speaker 1: process been advanced?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: No, you're right, and I've talked to my team about it.

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Speaker 3: Look as a high school teacher and a governor whatever,

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Speaker 3: I didn't think about writing a book, But being there,

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Speaker 3: I have.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think we.

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Speaker 3: Got to tell our story and I think there's lessons

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Speaker 3: learned to not go back and do you know, a

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Speaker 3: deep bever or hotwash of this is irresponsible in my opinion.

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Speaker 3: I spoke to the Vice president last week. We talked

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Speaker 3: a little bit about this, of coming to it but

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Speaker 3: we haven't done like a formal debrief, and you know,

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Speaker 3: when you're part of it, you've done this that. When

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Speaker 3: you're part of a team on this, you know you

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Speaker 3: work together. And I stand by that. I signed up

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Speaker 3: and I say this, Gavin, you'd appreciate not the cliches

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Speaker 3: of coaching or whatever, but I feel like I'm the

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Speaker 3: constant team player. If you are truly a team player,

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Speaker 3: you have a responsibility to make your team better. And

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Speaker 3: that means a responsibility to say, look, we're not making

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Speaker 3: this block here, we need to do this or whatever

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Speaker 3: it is, and we need to be honest that Again,

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Speaker 3: I keep coming back to that number of the folks

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Speaker 3: who stayed home. How in God's name could you stay

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Speaker 3: home during this election? It's pretty hard to blame that

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Speaker 3: on Donald Trump? You know what I mean that you've

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Speaker 3: got a responsibility. They weren't going to vote for him,

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Speaker 3: his people were, But you had a whole bunch of

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Speaker 3: these folks that just said, what difference does it make?

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Speaker 3: And how did we as a party get into that?

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Speaker 3: How did we lose the narrative? How much are we

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Speaker 3: seeding ground to the Fox News and the right wing

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Speaker 3: talking heads? How much are we seeding to them, which

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Speaker 3: we don't have a pushback on it. And that's fascinating

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Speaker 3: to me. I see that with me, people who have

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Speaker 3: a clearly defined vision who I am by what they

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Speaker 3: listen to.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, that's not true. None of that

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Speaker 2: is true. But they have it.

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Speaker 1: They have it, and I mean, and it's so interesting.

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Speaker 1: I think about you, and you know, we've talked about

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Speaker 1: this before, this notion of you know you were there

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Speaker 1: was an effort to swift boat you in terms of

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Speaker 1: your military service, and it's interesting and Tim, we've also

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Speaker 1: talked about the fact you were part of Carrie's campaign

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Speaker 1: as a veteran promore watching Carrie by these same folks

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Speaker 1: get swift in and did it.

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Speaker 3: And I'm telling you, this is one of the most

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Speaker 3: painful ones for me, Gavin, not because I don't go

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Speaker 3: down and throw this in people's faces, but my dad

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Speaker 3: was koreat war, aor veteran.

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Speaker 2: He took me. I did it.

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Speaker 3: I don't go out there and say, you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: better than you, because I did twenty four years. But

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Speaker 3: how quickly these guys dismissed twenty four years of honorable service.

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Speaker 3: I rose and served as a highest ranking enlisted soldier

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Speaker 3: where you can get and they find a way to

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Speaker 3: damn it. And my argument on that has always been

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Speaker 3: it damages all veterans. But I bet if you went

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Speaker 3: and polled, we see this. Veterans voted for Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: where they voted for us. We as Democrats, how do

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Speaker 3: you write this off? How do you do or this one?

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Speaker 3: Republicans are more fiscally conservative? You know that's not true.

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Speaker 3: Republican governors of California have not been fiscally conservative.

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Speaker 1: No, And I'll remind everyone eight point four trillion dollars

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Speaker 1: added to the debt during the four years of the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration. And if you want to dismiss that, say

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Speaker 1: it was COVID. It was three trillion before the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: He ran deficits every single year. So I stand by

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Speaker 1: what you just said, Tim.

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Speaker 3: I mean, what do you think happening? Look, you're taking

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Speaker 3: a different approach, You're doing other things. And I said,

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Speaker 3: I think we as Democrats have to give whether it's

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Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders, whether it's Jasmine Crockett, AOC, Gavin Newsom, JB.

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Speaker 2: Pritzker, all of the folks out there, because look.

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Speaker 3: What we have in common is we believe in working people,

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Speaker 3: we believe in fairness, we believe in healthcare, we believe

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Speaker 3: in the environment.

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Speaker 2: We're on the same team as the American public. But

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Speaker 2: how do you see it? I mean, did it feel

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Speaker 2: like we were.

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Speaker 1: Going to win? No, I mean we had that conversation.

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Speaker 1: I felt like that up until election day for whatever reason.

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Speaker 1: And look, but it's you know, it's interesting. I had

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Speaker 1: the same false sense that I think we all fall

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Speaker 1: prey to, and that is I was on those campaign buses.

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Speaker 1: I was out there campaigning for you guys. And it's

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Speaker 1: make believe in many respects. When they say, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you want to go right, they say, oh no, sir,

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Speaker 1: we got to go left because that's where the crowds

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Speaker 1: are and we've been working hard to assemble them. And

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Speaker 1: I wonder just in terms of that, And I want

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Speaker 1: to get back to answering your question, but I want

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Speaker 1: to just applaudge you for doing these red state tours.

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Speaker 1: But do you fear and I'm curious of your experiences

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Speaker 1: like this when you go into those crowds, which were huge.

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Speaker 1: You were in Omaha, you were in Ohio and Iowa

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Speaker 1: excuse me as well, and you had huge crowds. But

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Speaker 1: do you fear they're just you were talking to our

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Speaker 1: same folks or do you feel like there's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of Republicans that were there to listen to you?

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Speaker 3: Now see, I don't fear it, but I I think

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Speaker 3: we need to be honest with ourselves. The folks who

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Speaker 3: took a beautiful Friday afternoon in de Mooinne to come

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Speaker 3: listen to Tim Walls speak probably have a pretty good

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Speaker 3: opinion of me in the first place. But that's probably

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Speaker 3: too That's okay because they're screaming what are you guys

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Speaker 3: going to do about it? But I do tell you

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Speaker 3: there were some independence there. I doubt if there were

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Speaker 3: a whole lot of Republicans. But I'll tell you what

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Speaker 3: those Republicans were watching. And I think what I would

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Speaker 3: say if I was them, is, look, our representative can

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Speaker 3: do better than Walls. He should do it. He should

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Speaker 3: get out there and do it. This is to put

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Speaker 3: pressure on them to come forward, because then it really

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Speaker 3: does become a debate about the critical issues. And like

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Speaker 3: I said this, I you know they can just come

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Speaker 3: and why did you cut the VA? Just tell us,

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Speaker 3: tell us why you think that's a good idea because

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Speaker 3: I would argue once again, eighty percent of Americans don't

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Speaker 3: want to cut the VA, and you have to give

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Speaker 3: them statistics and facts. And I think my purpose of

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Speaker 3: this is is to force the hand of these folks,

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Speaker 3: because I got to be honest with you. I think

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Speaker 3: if they try and defend this stuff, they're going to lose.

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Speaker 3: I believe strongly in that this isn't just us versus them,

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Speaker 3: This is good policy versus bad policy.

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Speaker 2: And so that's the purpose.

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Speaker 3: But no, I want to be clear to folks who

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Speaker 3: see that the folks showing up are excited.

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Speaker 2: But here's my thing. Four months after.

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Speaker 3: Losing this critical election, our base is still engaged. So

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Speaker 3: I think that polling is interesting Gavin that it doesn't

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Speaker 3: mean that there's less Democrats. And the reason that number

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Speaker 3: is so low is if you pull every single year,

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Speaker 3: if you ask the Republican Party their opinion of the

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Speaker 3: Democratic Party, it's very low. The reason our numbers are

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Speaker 3: so low is those are Democrats.

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Speaker 1: Yep, sixty three percent feel and I was grateful with.

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Speaker 2: Sixty three percent. Still, here's what I say. I'm not

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Speaker 2: a Democrat, I'm Democratic farmer labor. I'm the one person

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Speaker 2: in the country.

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Speaker 3: We're dfl so and I actually think, Gavin, this is

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Speaker 3: an interesting point. While I won't cry and tell you

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Speaker 3: we've kept the farmers all with us or whatever, we

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Speaker 3: have kept some of them like Farmers Union in Minnesota

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Speaker 3: and these issues around water quality and different things, and

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Speaker 3: we're labor and.

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Speaker 2: In Minnesota we really do.

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Speaker 3: This was a marriage between the Farmer Labor Party, which

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Speaker 3: quite honestly was more progressive and leaning into the issues

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Speaker 3: of the working class and Democrats. And so I think

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Speaker 3: on a national level, we're going to have the conversation

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Speaker 3: of who we are because, like you said it.

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Speaker 2: People don't believe we're with them. They think we're a leaders.

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Speaker 1: What I love about what you did is you're meeting

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Speaker 1: people where they are going into red states, but you're

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Speaker 1: also not just meetium where they are. You're showing respect,

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Speaker 1: you're not turning your back because you're looking an electoral

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Speaker 1: map and recent experience say it's just seven swing states

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Speaker 1: and that's all our need to focus on. And I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things the Democratic Party absolutely needs

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Speaker 1: to do is we need to respect the fact that

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Speaker 1: we have to represent the American people, and that means

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Speaker 1: all fifty states, and so keeping going back, showing up matters.

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Speaker 3: Howard Dean was right fifty strategy and just to be

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Speaker 3: candid as one of the fringe, you know, kind of

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Speaker 3: washed in with the wave in two thousand and six

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Speaker 3: when there was the big Democratic wave, it was because

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Speaker 3: of Howard Dean and a few folks that were out

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Speaker 3: there that were saying, expand the map. Rama Manual of

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Speaker 3: all people was one of them. Two said we need

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Speaker 3: to expand the map everywhere. They went into a district

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Speaker 3: that had one Democrat since eighteen ninety two and put

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Speaker 3: a little money into it. And I want and so

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Speaker 3: I think, if you want to govern this country, you

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Speaker 3: can't tell Montana they don't matter, or Idaho or Mississippi.

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Speaker 3: And look, you and I both know this. You also

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Speaker 3: can't tell the Central Valley and things it were not

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Speaker 3: everybody thinks, oh, California.

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Speaker 1: Solid quiet, The counture two thirds of the map is

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Speaker 1: deeply red. I mean it's, you know, just America, only

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Speaker 1: more so in California, more hunters, more ranchers, more farmers,

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Speaker 1: and then other states and still the largest manufacturing state

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Speaker 1: in America. People forget that as well. So this notion

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Speaker 1: of industrial policy that's worker centered, so I have.

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Speaker 3: To say I appreciate and you're you're going on talking

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Speaker 3: to it, you know. And I get frustrated with some

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Speaker 3: of these folks, you know. I get frustrated with the

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Speaker 3: talking heads and the folks who I think are bad actors.

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Speaker 3: I don't get frustrated with my neighbors who are voting them.

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Speaker 3: I don't understand it as well, but I'm trying to

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Speaker 3: get them. You know, we have to figure out a

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Speaker 3: way that we're not The Republicans have done a good

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Speaker 3: job of this.

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Speaker 2: We're the enemy now.

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Speaker 3: Now we're in this situation where they see Russians as

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Speaker 3: being more trustworthy than us.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's a sad state to be in.

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Speaker 1: Unbelievable state.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And I.

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Speaker 3: Don't know, again don't I don't know if I've got

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Speaker 3: the ability to bring back those seventy seven million. I

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Speaker 3: do believe we've got the ability to get the disenfranchised

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00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 3: folks who are seeing the damage here. And I think

437
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 3: that's really important because this is truly, this isn't about

438
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 3: winning elections. This is about what's best for the country.

439
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 3: And you'll never convince me siding with Putin and North

440
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,640
Speaker 3: Korea it's good for the country, or fighting a trade

441
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 3: war with Canada and Mexico's good for the country.

442
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:50,199
Speaker 2: I don't buy it.

443
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, friends, And what more evidence we need to underscore

444
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,879
Speaker 1: this notion of these principles And what's happened today with

445
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 1: the Alien Enemies Act seventy hundreds and the deportation and

446
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,359
Speaker 1: just I mean, it's this to me, of all the

447
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 1: things that has happened during the Trump administration, the notion

448
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 1: that you can completely disregard the Federal Court and literally

449
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 1: challenged the court and for me, just just blatantly in

450
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,919
Speaker 1: contempt of court. I mean, that's that's the cornerstone of

451
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 1: this constitutional democracy.

452
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,239
Speaker 3: And here's what fascinates me is if that came up.

453
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 3: I watched the Sunday talk shows yesterday. It was all

454
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 3: about what's wrong with the Democratic Party?

455
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 1: Yeah?

456
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 3: Why do we buy their arguments? Why are we fighting fringe,

457
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 3: red herring issues that get Democrats at Democrats that the

458
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,239
Speaker 3: Democratic activists screaming at other Democrats? How do we And

459
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,439
Speaker 3: I did it, Gavin, I admitted it. I took the

460
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 3: dogs in cats argument and ran right with it, and

461
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 3: he sucked me in. We have been in these issues

462
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,960
Speaker 3: where we may not all agree on all the issue,

463
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 3: but we buy their frame. And then you have Democrats

464
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 3: fighting against Democrats and they sail above it.

465
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: They say above it. I mean, so, then you don't

466
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: want me ask the Schumer question in the shutdown because

467
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: it falls right into that frame, doesn't it.

468
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:11,360
Speaker 2: Yes?

469
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 3: Yes, And having served in Congress, you're an executive, you

470
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 3: know what make the hard. I put out a budget

471
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 3: and everybody's angry with me, all my friends, you know,

472
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 3: including teachers who I'm looking out for them. But you

473
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 3: have to do these things. But I think it's in

474
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 3: the moment with this, and I look, and this is

475
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 3: where Democrats we actually care about the institutions and we

476
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 3: care about people.

477
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 2: Like you know.

478
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 3: My opinion on this is I believe Chuck one hundred

479
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 3: percent believes that he made a decision that reduced the

480
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 3: pain and the risk to Americans. I see it now

481
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 3: that we're in a point where I think we're in

482
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 3: a new world. That pain is coming anyway, and I

483
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 3: think with you, with you, yeah, And they think we

484
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 3: gave up our leverage. And to make it clear, who

485
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 3: owns this because now to the American public who doesn't

486
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 3: do this for a living and is out doing their job.

487
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 2: They said, well, they.

488
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 3: Passed this budget and they agreed with Donald Trump, and

489
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 3: now we all own that. I think you should have

490
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 3: made Donald Trump justify why things were getting so bad,

491
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 3: and we as governors would do our best to protect

492
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 3: the most vulnerable. That seemed to me to be the

493
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 3: fight we should have had. But I think the public

494
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,679
Speaker 3: saying is you guys weren't even coordinated on that. You

495
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 3: know you already weren't we weren't.

496
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 1: Let me, I mean, just let me ask you, as

497
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: a party leader, are you? I mean, there's this notion

498
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: people say, well, what's the party doing? Who is the party?

499
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,199
Speaker 1: And I'm asking you, I'm serious. Is the party of

500
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,360
Speaker 1: the DNC? Is the party? You? And Harris? Is the party?

501
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 2: Is it?

502
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: Party? Is it? Chuck? And Akeem? Who is the party?

503
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 1: Is it a DGA?

504
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 3: I go back to it again, Kevin. It's not a

505
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 3: flippant romant. It's the people. And then in a democracy

506
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 3: they send people forward to be able to do this.

507
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 3: The party is not leadership. The party is there to

508
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 3: enable And I know for me, I wouldn't have got

509
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 3: elected as a high school teacher with no connections, no

510
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,360
Speaker 3: political experience if I wouldn't have been able to go

511
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,959
Speaker 3: to Worthington, Minnesota and meet a woman named deb Howkan's

512
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 3: and who already knew how to organize a little get

513
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 3: together and put me in front of forty people and

514
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 3: let me give my little speech. That's what the party

515
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 3: was supposed to do. My job was to hear and

516
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 3: reflect from them and then take our values and vote

517
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 3: for them. And I think we've gotten ourselves in this

518
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 3: bind where we think there's going to be one person now.

519
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: I want to be very clear about this.

520
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 3: It doesn't excuse any of us for not being organized, coordinated, thoughtful,

521
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 3: delivering a unified message.

522
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: And by the way, Tim, we're not doing that. And

523
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: you know we're not doing that. I don't get calls.

524
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't coordinate. There's no deep coordinating. Heck,

525
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: even in our DGA meetings. Let's have that conversation that

526
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: we're not even focused on policy. It's nice to see

527
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: each other. We have those side conversations, we'll have panels,

528
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: and we will discuss in some respects and policy, but

529
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: at the gubernatorial level, when we're all together, we tend

530
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: to be having tactical conversations about elections.

531
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: We're probably more unified than anybody too.

532
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: And we are ironically more unified.

533
00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not a call.

534
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 3: But and again are the folks who are out there,

535
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 3: whether are on social media or the folks at the

536
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 3: local coffee shop or whatever. They want us to have

537
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 3: a unified message. Here's where I really think they've missed

538
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 3: in DC on this. It does feel to me that

539
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 3: despite those numbers, the Democratic Party is unified. They're unified

540
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 3: in being pissed off at the Democratic.

541
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:25,719
Speaker 2: Party, you know, and they argutified in that Donald Trump's

542
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 2: policies are going to hurt people.

543
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 3: So I would argue Gavin that there's an argument in here,

544
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 3: and then I'm going to I like him a lot,

545
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 3: and I think he's right. I think Ezra Klin is

546
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 3: giving us a bit of a road kicking the butt.

547
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 3: We blindly say all of our democratic institutions and our

548
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 3: government institutions are unquestionably working as well as they should.

549
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 3: We open it up, we should be striving to do

550
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 3: things better. We should acknowledge I'm trying to do it

551
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 3: here in Minnesota. I'm not going to cut, you know,

552
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 3: safeguards around permitting, but I will be the first to

553
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 3: acknowledge it takes us too long to permit projects. There

554
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 3: you go and it bogs down systems, And I started,

555
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 3: you know, we have to bring people in who look,

556
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 3: you're you're going to cater to corporate interests or whatever. No,

557
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 3: I'm trying to make it easier to build a solar

558
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,719
Speaker 3: field and be able to get that out there. I'm

559
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 3: trying to make it easier for somebody to bring in

560
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 3: a new business, but not sacrifice workers' safety, environmental safety

561
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 3: in that.

562
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 2: And we don't acknowledge that enough. I don't think.

563
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: There you go and they.

564
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: You know, all the Republicans are I'll cut your taxes

565
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,239
Speaker 3: and you know, we'll cut government spending. But now you

566
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 3: have all these stories people saying, well, I voted for

567
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 3: Trump and I wanted them to cut government spending.

568
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: But I didn't mean me. I didn't mean my stuff.

569
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 3: We as Democrats have to connect that government does deliver positives,

570
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 3: does deliver things, but we also.

571
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 2: Are were fallible and in some cases we get in

572
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:48,959
Speaker 2: the way. So say it.

573
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love to. I mean, by the way, we're

574
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: gonna have Ezra Client on the podcast next week talking

575
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: specifically about this.

576
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 2: Ali thanks for.

577
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 3: Me because I agree with him on this. I think

578
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 3: he's trying to figure out a better way, that this

579
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 3: isn't an all or nothing, And this is an advantage

580
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 3: for us because Republicans are telling people that all government stinks.

581
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 3: You're going to regret this. And I was down in

582
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 3: Iowa when the tornadoes are hitting. It's really good to

583
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 3: have weather forecasting. Really it makes no sense, So tell

584
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 3: that story.

585
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: That's important. And look, I mean for things to change,

586
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: we have to change, and I think we have to

587
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: own what you know, we can control the controllables, and

588
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: that's how we govern and be more effective. And in

589
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: so many ways the world we invented is competing against

590
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: us as it relates to the paralysis of analysis and

591
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: process years and years. As you say to not just

592
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, get a permit, but even to zone a

593
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: solar projects. This is not just about large factories spewing pollution.

594
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: This is also about the transition to low carbon, green

595
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: growth economy. So I couldn't agree with your sentiment, and

596
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: I appreciate Ezra and others bringing that up. Let me

597
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: ask you, though, just broadly on the issue of the asymmetry,

598
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: because we keep dancing around this and there is asymmetry

599
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: in terms of the communication. You talked about how you're

600
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: perceived after this election despite unprecedented amounts of money that

601
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: you guys spent Harris Walt on the campaign trying to

602
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 1: define our brand, but how successful they were defining us

603
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: as opposed to Democrats defining them. It's important underscore. I

604
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: don't think people appreciate this. You look at podcasts, nine

605
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: out of the ten most influential podcasts skewed to the right,

606
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: nine out of ten. Thank you to the podsey folks

607
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: for saving us at least allowing us to fight. You've

608
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: got fourteen of the fifteen top rated TV shows, fourteen

609
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: of the fifteen on Fox. You've got Sinclair Broadcasting that's

610
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: filling that void with local newspapers, with one hundred and

611
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: eighty five plus stations flooding the zone coordinated attacks. They're

612
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: staying on message, they're not allowing distractions to get them distracted,

613
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 1: and they're reinforcing a message that's it seems to me

614
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: be a wake up call to the Democratic Party to

615
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: figure that out.

616
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 3: Yeah no, and look adjacent to this, Voice of America

617
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 3: went silent today, which I tell you having listened to

618
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 3: Voice America living in Asia in eighty nine. I found

619
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: out that the Berlin Wall fell through Voice of America.

620
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 3: And there's a reason that they didn't want you to

621
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 3: hear that when you're living in China, because that's pretty

622
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 3: threatening to their way of doing things. So I think

623
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 3: we haven't conveyed the power of that communication, and as

624
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 3: the landscape has changed so greatly, because look, I know

625
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 3: you're taking a risk doing a podcast, doing something to

626
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 3: try and fill a void that's out there, and hopefully

627
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 3: trying to use it as a platform to articulate our

628
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 3: values to a different or broader audience.

629
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: But we've not figured this out yet.

630
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,479
Speaker 3: And don't do I think we'd have won this election

631
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 3: if we'd have gone on one of those podcasts. No, No,

632
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 3: probably not. But I don't think we'd got beat by more,

633
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 3: know what I mean. I don't think I think would

634
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 3: have been a chance. But I think any place we

635
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 3: can go to talk about our values. The value of

636
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 3: these town halls, too, Gavin, is that they slow things

637
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 3: down and you can talk things through. And I think

638
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you start finding out,

639
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 3: you know, there are people out there saying, well, I

640
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 3: didn't really realize that I didn't see it that way,

641
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 3: But where is guilty of this too? I want to

642
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,719
Speaker 3: go on to places where I get you know, confirmation bias.

643
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 3: USh I already believe it, and.

644
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: Then of course people turn to We've.

645
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 3: Got to broaden it. We've got to get to more people.

646
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 3: We've got to recognize the disconnect between our policies and

647
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 3: how people view them. And I think we always this

648
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 3: is just me. I'm going to say it that I

649
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,959
Speaker 3: think somebody's got to be big and strategic and macro.

650
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 3: I just look at every one of these issues through

651
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: the individual lens how it's impacting them, and I try

652
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 3: and stay in that space. And I'll be the first

653
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 3: to admit to you I view most issues through the

654
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 3: eyes of a teacher. It's just who I am, like

655
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 3: a thing when those kids come in the classroom. That

656
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 3: means I view homelessness, food, insecurity, you know, inclusion. I

657
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 3: view all of those things through the eye of a teacher,

658
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 3: what it means to be in that because I believe

659
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 3: that that's that in America, that's the great hope, the

660
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 3: great equalizer, the great experiment, and so something in there

661
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 3: were missing in a pretty big way.

662
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: Obviously, I think the biggest and the most alarming part

663
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: of these polls and is that people feel we're out

664
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: of touch. And despite what I thought was an incredibly

665
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: effective campaign in terms of highlighting the needs of the

666
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: American people, I thought just the importance of having you

667
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: on the ticket to articulate exactly what you just articulated

668
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: really reinforced and underscored the benefits of someone that is

669
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: able to know, through your lived experience and through your eyes,

670
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: be able to express what I think the vast majority

671
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: of people embrace. But again they're still not embracing what were.

672
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 2: The idea again? And you think it's because we appear.

673
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: We Yeah, Bill Clinton said it been on anyone years

674
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: and years ago after slacking given the choice, I'm paraphrasing

675
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: the American people will always support strong and wrong versus

676
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: weak and right.

677
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 3: Because I saw it from me, and not that I

678
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 3: spend much time thinking about this, and it just baffled

679
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 3: me how much time they spent trying to attack me

680
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: that I wasn't like masculine enough in their vision, Like

681
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: I would have never believed this. I saw Fox News

682
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 3: did like a couple of days because I used a

683
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 3: straw and I'm like, hell, man, what am I how

684
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 3: else do you drink a milkshake type of thing. But

685
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 3: they focused on it obsessively, which I think again is

686
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 3: their obsession, their weirdness. We buy their frame on these

687
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 3: issues of sexuality, you know, but their whole thing was

688
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 3: is that they spent all their time, these guys on

689
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: Fox News that Walls is gay, not masculine. You know,

690
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: he doesn't coach football the way he should or doesn't.

691
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: What do you think about this?

692
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: I mean, because it is a misogyny in here that's happened. Yeah.

693
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: Well, but this notion of masculinity is deeply part of it.

694
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: That's one of the I mean, I think it goes

695
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: you know, and you can look at the reasons why

696
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: we've had this sort of dialectic over the Meat Too movement.

697
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: We've had this dialectic even prior to the met To movement.

698
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: This notion and well, this, this notion get.

699
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: Most of their ass I do that. I know I

700
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: can run them, but I don't know if we're going

701
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: to fall into that place where we want to.

702
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 3: Okay, we challenge you to a do you know, a

703
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 3: wwe fight here type of thing.

704
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: But it is it's a natural reaction. I think it's

705
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: one of the reasons we're losing so many men, and

706
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: again it's multi ethnic. It's not just white men. We're

707
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: losing them. We're losing them to these guys online. We're

708
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: losing the people that I'm bringing on this podcast as well.

709
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 2: These are bad guys though, These are bad guys.

710
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: But they exist, and we could deny the exist. They exist.

711
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: Not only the exist, they persist, and they're actually influencing

712
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: young kids every single day.

713
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 2: How do we put some of those guys back under

714
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: a rock.

715
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: I think we have to first understand what their motivations are.

716
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: I think we have to understand what they're actually doing.

717
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: And I don't think that's a racism and misogyny.

718
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of that, but I don't

719
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: think it's exclusive will be that. When you talk to

720
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: a guy like Steve Bannon, you know, he reminded me

721
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: a little bit of my grandfather when he talks about

722
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: working folks and he talks about how we hollowed out

723
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: the industrial coilist country. I understand that. But so we

724
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: can dismiss the notion of election denihalism, we could completely

725
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: dismiss what he did on January sixth, but I don't

726
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: think you can dismiss. What he's saying reminds me a

727
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: lot of what Bernie Sanders was saying, reminds me a

728
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: lot of what democrats said twenty thirty years ago.

729
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: I mean, he's arguing he must right.

730
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: He hates musk, he hates the oligarchy. He totally agrees

731
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: with you on the concentration of monopolistic powers. He completely

732
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: dismisses the notion that we should extend the tax cuts

733
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: for corporations and the very wealthy. He thinks we should

734
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: lower taxes for the middle class and wants to see

735
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: increase taxes.

736
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 2: But now when people say we should message, I can't

737
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: message to misogynists. I can't message that women shouldn't have you.

738
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: But I think if we say people are misogynists, then

739
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: we're falling prey. We're in that frame. Not everybody that

740
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: disagrees with us is a misogynist. But I think this

741
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: notion of toxicity in masculinity us to be separated, and

742
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: I think it's been conflated, and I think we're going

743
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: to have to work on that a little bit.

744
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 3: I think some of us scare them. I think I

745
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 3: scare them a little bit. Why they spend so much

746
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 3: time on it. No, I'm serious, because I can't fix

747
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 3: the truck. They know I'm not bullshitting on this. I'm

748
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 3: not putting this in people's grill. I don't know if

749
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 3: my identity is not hunting, my identity is not football coaching,

750
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 3: My identity is not you know, a beard in a truck.

751
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: I like all those things. But how did we get

752
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: to this?

753
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 3: Where have they figured it out that the identity piece

754
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 3: of this is more important than the actual substance behind.

755
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 1: Well, they've been doing it for decades. I mean, we've

756
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: saw the welfare queen's They've seen the Southern strategy. We've

757
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: seen it over and over. It's an old playbook, and

758
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: we're as dumb as we want to be that we

759
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: allow them to do this with CRT and ESG and

760
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: DEI and every three letter word. And they demonize people, Yeah, demonized,

761
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: and they weaponize grievance. They other people, They talk down

762
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: to people, past people, they humiliate people, they weaponize difficult issues.

763
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: But the problem line is, and I think it goes

764
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: back to what we began with is and I applaud

765
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: you for this, is we cannot continue to be on

766
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 1: the defense reacting to this, We've got to go on

767
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: the offense. We've got to meet people where they are.

768
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: But I also think this and this is where you know,

769
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 1: this is part of the conversation I'm trying to have

770
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: is you got to respect people you disagree with, even

771
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 1: you can't just dismiss people. We can't just turn our

772
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: back on people. What you've learned from those guys that

773
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: not only they have a huge following, there's a rationale,

774
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: there's a ration. Look for Steve Banner. I'm not here

775
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: to defend Steve Banner. I couldn't agree with you more

776
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: as it relates to what he did on an election

777
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: denihilism and you know, look that guy that he is.

778
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: There's we could spend hours and hours going down the

779
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 1: rabbit hole of Steve Bannett. But what he's talking about

780
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: in terms of populism, what he's talking about in terms

781
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: of working folks, what he's talking about from a global construct,

782
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: about what's happened to Middle America and rural Americans and

783
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: why they've lost trust with our party. What he's talking

784
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: about with what's happening with men in this country and

785
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: how they've lost their way and how they have significantly

786
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: higher suicide rates. Lives of that are, you know, more

787
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: despair and isolation. I think those are real issues that

788
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: our party needs to come to grit.

789
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 3: Their populism went not over ours, because I'm actually a

790
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 3: Prairie populist.

791
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: But I think we stopped talking about those things. We're

792
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: not talking about what's going on with men in this

793
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: guy my wife did a documentary called The Mask You

794
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: Live In fifteen years ago, was talking about these things. Somehow,

795
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened. The party never picked up

796
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 1: on these core things. There's trend lin. I mean, Scott

797
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: Galloway gets it. He's a good, good guy across the board.

798
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: There's a crisis of men and masculine in this country,

799
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: and that's a hard thing for Democrats because we want

800
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: to lift up women, we want to lift up the oppressed.

801
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 2: I think some of that comes from the dread as

802
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 2: we lift up.

803
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: I always use this analogy that there's a whole bunch

804
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 3: of people Gavin that see rights like a pie. If

805
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 3: somebody gets some, they lose part of their pie. Yeah,

806
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 3: ridiculous that way expanding rights that there's no one I

807
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 3: keep coming back to that idea and this idea of

808
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 3: freedom that well, that can be everybody. I don't know

809
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,919
Speaker 3: why they're in these small, little, narrow, divisive issues other

810
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 3: than I think some of these people are masterful at

811
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 3: it so they can get to their two goal, which

812
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 3: is to cut taxes for the wealthy and shift shift

813
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 3: wealth in their direction.

814
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: And by the way, and concurrently increase taxes for the

815
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: middle class and the poor. And people forget that some

816
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: of the highest tax plays. I mean, I live in

817
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: a state and like your state was literally I mean,

818
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: look exactly, by the way, what's what Bannon is arguing for,

819
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: which is interesting and ironic considering some of the punitry.

820
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 1: But let me just you know, make this point because

821
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: it needs to be made. In Florida and Texas, they

822
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: tax their poorest more than we tack our riches. The

823
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: hell are we losing this tax debate?

824
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 2: Yes? Who are you for percent? You'll pay more high

825
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: tax states apparently. Yeah.

826
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: And they have higher infant mentality, higher maternal mentality, lower wages,

827
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: they have lower ensured.

828
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: Lower life expect every Yeah.

829
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: And by the way, seventy one I'm going to keep going.

830
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: Seventy one percent of the economy in this country are

831
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: Metro Blue Metro. So point being it's not that we're

832
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: not right, but I think we're wrong not to understand

833
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: more deeply and fully that people think we are deeply

834
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: full of ourselves and we're talking down to people and

835
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: past people. People want to be protected, they want to

836
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: be respected, and they want to be connected. And I

837
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 1: think this notion of respect is something that keeps coming

838
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: back to me. People that just feel like we don't

839
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: respect them.

840
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 3: How do we do that, though heaven and lay down

841
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 3: a clear marker that you're not going to demonize LGBTQ people.

842
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 2: We're not going to happen.

843
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 3: How do we lay that market on because I'm not

844
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 3: going to get into their their space with them of

845
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 3: that that's what a man looks like, you know, demonizing

846
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 3: these How do we stay firm, show that we're committed

847
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 3: and not compromise on those values that we care about.

848
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: I mean, do we continue to do what you and

849
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: I have done. We've led the nation in terms of

850
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: laws anti discrimination laws. We have the back of our

851
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: diverse communities. We don't just rhetorically say that we've done

852
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: it through laws and regulations. We stand firm at the

853
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: same time, you know, with respect. And this is where obviously,

854
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,919
Speaker 1: you know, I've kind of It's not like it even

855
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 1: a break. I just think there's there are areas where

856
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: we may overreach, and I think we have to acknowledge

857
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: that as well. And if you don't acknowledge that, then

858
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: I think you're going to lose people on everything else.

859
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I look at the issue of gay marriage,

860
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: and remember I was in two thousand and four when

861
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: our party was dismissing me because I sat and I

862
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: said it was wrong to deny people the right to

863
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: get buried or they're one of the same sex. And

864
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: my party vehemently opposed that, and they were very vocal

865
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: about it, the major leaders in our party.

866
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 2: I remember this. I ran on it in two thousand

867
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 2: and six in a conservative district.

868
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: God bless you, and stood on principle.

869
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: Are we not doing that enough right now?

870
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: No, we are doing that. We continue to do that.

871
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: I think we're firm in our foundation in terms of

872
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 1: supporting our diverse communities. It's not that I think there's

873
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: a broader message lot and there's a whole there's a

874
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: whole world out there that's not just about protecting those rights,

875
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: it's about also a knowledging the pain that other people

876
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: are feeling that often are not part of our rhetoric

877
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: and our agenda, and that's what I think we need

878
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: to exploit it.

879
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: You're on I'm curious to listen.

880
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 3: I want to listen to Ezra next week because because

881
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 3: I think that's the other thing that I think we

882
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,399
Speaker 3: talk a lot, and we have to deliver more.

883
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: You've delivered.

884
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 3: I think we've delivered in Minnesota, and I've seen this.

885
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 3: When you deliver on things that improve people's lives, it's

886
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 3: amazing how good the politics is behind that if you

887
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 3: have good policies and get things done. And part of

888
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 3: that is I think where Ezra's getting that is is

889
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 3: do your best work, but acknowledge you know, really this

890
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 3: agency is not doing that much for people. Like I'm

891
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: doing this thing, just simple things to make them getting

892
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 3: their driver's license eesier. You and I both deal with

893
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 3: this the DMV, Like I'm trying to find why do

894
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 3: we make them go every year? Maybe we should go

895
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 3: every two years, you know, just something that people want

896
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 3: to see. We did this thing where you can now

897
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 3: get your license tabs through a vending machine at cub Foods,

898
00:40:58,239 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 3: so you just go up there. It takes you too

899
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 3: many that you put in your stuff and it spits

900
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 3: out your tabs. You put your tabs on. That one

901
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 3: to me is as conservatives are like good, I didn't

902
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 3: have to deal with government. It was efficient, it was easy,

903
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: but that was government. But it was good functioning government.

904
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: That's it. And that's that's so you were Doge before

905
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 1: Doge without the pejorda sense of Joge, which.

906
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 2: Is not about that.

907
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: It's about that's about recklessness, that's just about destroying the

908
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: administrative state. But what you're talking about is government efficiency,

909
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: focusing on outcomes not just inputs, meaning customers where they are,

910
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: which I love, and that's got to be part of

911
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: our core messaging. And I think that's our challenge with

912
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 1: Doge is we're reacting to Doge by saying it's all terrible,

913
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: which it has been to date. For this notion of

914
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: government efficiency.

915
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 2: It works so well formed because people believe that.

916
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 3: And look, there's been forty years since you know, your

917
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 3: predecessor Reagan told them. You know, you don't want to

918
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 3: see government coming. Government can be a great force of good,

919
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 3: whether it's protecting your personal rights, whether it's Indivadie look.

920
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 2: Good for SpaceX.

921
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 3: I hope they succeed, but let's be clear, SpaceX stands

922
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 3: on the shoulders of NASA giants and that's our taxpayer

923
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 3: dollar that did that. There are great things, but I've

924
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 3: always been a firm believer we can do the research,

925
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 3: send it into the private sector, let them improve, you know,

926
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 3: monetize it, and help people as long as there's guardrails.

927
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,919
Speaker 3: I think we find ourselves now pushing back anything that's

928
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 3: business oriented. We're kind of negative to. I feel I'm

929
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 3: hearing it from the business community. Look like they don't

930
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 3: like Trump right now. They're not being courageous enough, in

931
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 3: my opinion, to speak out, but they don't like this.

932
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 3: But they also say, well, I don't hear a lot

933
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 3: from you guys saying that, you know, these businesses added

934
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 3: to the cultural you know, tapestry of Minneapolis.

935
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: My found I thought, I thought it was a master class.

936
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: It offended all of us. It offended me. But also

937
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: I thought it was a master class to have all

938
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: those folks up there on stage. I mean, Trump was

939
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: able to communicate without saying a word, his support for

940
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: free enterprise. The same time it was I thought, you know,

941
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: it was kind of humiliating. For those folks that felt

942
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: they had to go up there. I think it was

943
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: fear that they were up there for though, yeah course,

944
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 1: I mean they had to fall in line. I mean,

945
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: this guy doesn't play by any rules, and that's why

946
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: there's more options Democrats can't cover by fear.

947
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 3: But I've said this, Gavin, I talked fourth grade. Fear

948
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 3: is an incredible short term motivator, so you change behaviors.

949
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 2: Though for the long run, what are we going to

950
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 2: have to do?

951
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 3: You know, you feel this excitement, you have these rallies,

952
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 3: but what's that translating into. You know, what's that turning into?

953
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: Well, I think I mean look back to I think

954
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: this forensic that's not just tactical. It's not just about

955
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: you know how we can sort of just stretch and

956
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: get another twenty thirty thousand votes in these swing states.

957
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's I think it's an opportunity

958
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 1: for us to address some of the issues we just discussed.

959
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: I love that you said you can't be pro job

960
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: and anti business. I mean you made a case for

961
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: entrepreneurialism and innovation and research and development. I love that.

962
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: I want Democrats to talk more about that. I want

963
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: us to talk more about not begrudging people's success, but

964
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: celebrating success. Is to be the aspirational party. I want

965
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: to talk about patriotism and pride, not just sorry and

966
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: and sorry GUV, but just you know. Back to Clinton,

967
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: I love what Bill Clinton said when he talked about community, opportunity,

968
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: and responsibility. I think we don't talk enough about responsibility.

969
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 1: And I appreciated the opportunity agenda. I appreciate our focus

970
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: on community and building community, But what about responsibility? What

971
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: about service? What about civics? What about these notions the

972
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: things that bind us together, all our interesting differences. We're

973
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: good at focusing on interesting differences, but what about the

974
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: things that unite us together. I think that's what people

975
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: want to hear from our party.

976
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 2: People want to be part of something. That's why they're

977
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 2: on with Trump. They're part of something, They're part of

978
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 2: a team. I've always said this. In high school, I

979
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: did everything. I coached all the sports, I worked on

980
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 2: the play, the musical, I sponsored the student trips, I

981
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 2: built the prom I did all that because what I

982
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 2: understood was is kids will gravitate to groups, and it's

983
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 2: better to be in the musical than in a gang.

984
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 2: It's better to be with this group of kids in school,

985
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,280
Speaker 2: so we know this. If a kid is part of something,

986
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 2: they do that. And I'm telling you this disenfranchisement with men,

987
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 2: this not being there. Whatever they might have played on

988
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 2: football teams, I think Trump gives them that feeling that

989
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 2: I'm on the team.

990
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 3: I wear the same colors I do all this, don't look.

991
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 3: You can laugh while you want about red hats. People

992
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 3: like those damn things, don't they. And maybe some of

993
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 3: it's sticking it in our grill, but I think it's

994
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 3: being part of something bigger than themselves. And right now

995
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 3: the Democratic Party doesn't feel like something bigger than themselves,

996
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 3: and that's our whole goal.

997
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 2: Community.

998
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: I love it, no look, And that's why I'm such

999
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: a believer in service, such a believer in shared experiences.

1000
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 3: And I just kind to copy what you did on

1001
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 3: the service stuff. I said, Stanley Macrystal. You there's a

1002
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 3: few folks out there talking about this, you know, use

1003
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 3: service learning and these types of things. Stuff I've been

1004
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 3: interested in too. From the teacher perspective. If you do that,

1005
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 3: you are so engaged in your community. Now we celebrate

1006
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 3: and we rightfully should those who join and serve in

1007
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 3: the military. But there's numerous ways to serve your country,

1008
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 3: got it, not in uniform. And I'm thinking as we

1009
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 3: become more fragmented, our media becomes more fragmented, our TV

1010
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 3: becomes more fragmented. People want to be part of something.

1011
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 3: I think Trump knew that before us, and he brought

1012
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 3: them into that. And I you know, that's why you

1013
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 3: in the catchphrases and stuff. It may seem cheesy, but

1014
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 3: we're missing it. We're missing where people are not wanting

1015
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 3: to become part of something.

1016
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: I said, the universality of this notion of being protected

1017
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,919
Speaker 1: and respected. But back to your point, one hundred percent

1018
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: agree connected. We all need to be connected. There's an

1019
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: unmooring that's going on in society. There's there's I mean,

1020
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: people just feel lost, they feel more isolated, they feel

1021
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: more alone, and again particularly for young men, and so

1022
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: I just think we have to acknowledge that, we have

1023
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: to address that, we have to be sensitive to that,

1024
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,919
Speaker 1: and we have to be willing to have those conversations

1025
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,439
Speaker 1: and not feel like we're playing into the right wing.

1026
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: When we're having those conversations.

1027
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 2: Politics will follow that.

1028
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's it's in the politics. Go back to

1029
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: what you said, which I love mat its just the principle,

1030
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: Like what I love about you, and you know, and

1031
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: we're out of time, so I'm just going to end

1032
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 1: with just just mad respect is you're a man of principle,

1033
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: You're a man of values. You're a decent and honorable person.

1034
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: Forget the politician. What I love about the politician, Governor

1035
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: Walls is that you're all of those things I just

1036
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: said before the word politician.

1037
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

1038
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: No, and we'll we'll find the political way back. But

1039
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: I think we have to have some humility in terms

1040
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: of where we are, and I think we we can't

1041
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 1: be I just think we have to be careful about

1042
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: being too dismissive of where they are and the progress

1043
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: they've made. And I know, I know you you broadly

1044
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: agree with that, and I think the vast majority of

1045
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: people do. But I think we're this is an existential

1046
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: moment and our unity, our unity against Trump, is not

1047
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 1: increasing our trust. It's not helping the Democratic brand.

1048
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 2: You know.

1049
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: The more we attack Troupe, which is great, I mean,

1050
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: we've got to do it. We've got to hold them

1051
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: to account. And people, are you hear it? What do

1052
00:47:58,560 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: you say the primal screen?

1053
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 2: We got to offer them something, we got offer we.

1054
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: Have to exactly and that's what we need to I

1055
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: think that's that's that's the sole searching that we need.

1056
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 3: We have to be the vikings to their packers, is

1057
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 3: what I would say, Gavin.

1058
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 2: So we got to get people in.

1059
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 3: And I think I would say to your listeners and

1060
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 3: everybody out there that we're going to have to ruffle feathers.

1061
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 3: We as Democrats aren't going to agree on everything, but

1062
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,280
Speaker 3: our values are still there and we have to figure

1063
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 3: out how to have that. And I would ask, you know,

1064
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,720
Speaker 3: a frustrated and scared, to be honest with you, scared

1065
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 3: electorate to stay engaged. They are, that's what they're showing

1066
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 3: up those town halls. And then I would encourage our

1067
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 3: folks to listen and rise to the moment and do

1068
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 3: the things that we need to do to get back,

1069
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 3: not to win elections, but to influence policy in a

1070
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 3: positive way.

1071
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 2: So I'm grateful. I know you've got a big job.

1072
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 3: You govern a country, and you and.

1073
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,879
Speaker 1: I both have day jobs which we can't forget. But look,

1074
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: this notion of a big tent, A big tent, that's

1075
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,800
Speaker 1: what That's what built the middle class in the fifties, sixties,

1076
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: and seventies. What's brought us medicaid and medicare. That's what

1077
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: brought us the minimum wages we know it today. It

1078
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: was a big tent.

1079
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 2: Or unions lean into labor. Unions and labor.

1080
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: It's got to be workers center, industrial policy, that's workers centered. Uh.

1081
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 1: That's Tim Waltz my guest today here.

1082
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 2: On The Guy.

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Speaker 1: This is Kevin Newsome. It's great to have you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much.