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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, welcome back to behind the Bastards. I would

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Speaker 1: have quit so long ago, so fucking long ago if

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Speaker 1: this was if this was your real, this is real.

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Speaker 1: Well it's rocking Roberts with cool Katie and Cody moon

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Speaker 1: Man Johnson here in the morning with you to help

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Speaker 1: your drive time go by like the moon light again.

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Speaker 1: Now we're gonna do a new thing. We're gonna prank call.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna prank call people whose children are in the

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Speaker 1: n I see you and make them think their kids

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Speaker 1: are dead. How all comedy works in two thousand three? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the girl just has some sort of like laugh. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it nailed it, nailed it. M we're back support our

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Speaker 1: misogyny by laughing at our jokes. Oh, cod Bigs, moon

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Speaker 1: Man Christ, how's it good one? Well, what's up with you?

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Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm wishing I'd made my real calling as

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Speaker 1: a drivetime radio d J. That's who I learned about

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Speaker 1: nine eleven from? Really really Yes, yeah, we like like

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Speaker 1: learned about nine eleven, or like learned that nine eleven

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Speaker 1: happened from blended it happened. Yeah, we were It was

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Speaker 1: the Jeff and Anna Morning Show. I was driving to

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Speaker 1: fucking I mean, I wasn't driving because I was a child,

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Speaker 1: but my mom was driving us to school, and like

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Speaker 1: they started riffing about how a plane and I think

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Speaker 1: they thought, like because I remember thinking at first that

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Speaker 1: it had been like some prop plane or some ship

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Speaker 1: that some idiot had acted, and so like they were

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Speaker 1: just like joking about how bad you like, probably making

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Speaker 1: jokes about people with that eyesight or something. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then when I walked into my first period class, which

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Speaker 1: was health, I walked in in time to watch the

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Speaker 1: second plane hits. Just like that might not be that

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Speaker 1: might not have been a just a just a kookie

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Speaker 1: mix up, maybe not a Oh my god. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be a radio show host when I was in

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Speaker 1: I was like, that seems perfect. I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: like an oldies radio station. You don't get any and

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Speaker 1: look where I am now, baby, playing the oldies, hanging

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Speaker 1: out with moon Man Classics and the Jesus So yeah,

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Speaker 1: speaking of Jesus Christ, well yeah, yeah, one of that's

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Speaker 1: one of the jesus Is. I mean there's a couple

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Speaker 1: of them, jeez, I yeah, just swee us famous Jesu. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: one of the famers. Anyway, whatever, we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: Southern Baptist Convention anyway. So in two thousand four, d

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Speaker 1: August Bodo, often known as Augie, a terrible nickname, became

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Speaker 1: the Executive Committee General counsel to the Southern Baptist Commits

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Speaker 1: Commission or Convention, right um. And obviously, so the SBC,

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Speaker 1: which is the centralized governing body of the Southern Baptist Church,

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Speaker 1: which does not have a centralized governing body of course, Um,

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Speaker 1: they have an executive Committee, which are you know, because

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Speaker 1: they don't have popes and bishops, not like being popes

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Speaker 1: and bishops, but effectively kind of like being popes and bishops, um.

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Speaker 1: And August Bodo was like their lawyer, right um. And

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Speaker 1: as that guy, it's Augie's job to guide them in

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Speaker 1: their responses to allegations of sexual assault, which just become

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Speaker 1: more and more common in the years leading up to

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, when that group of survivors comes

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Speaker 1: to beg for them to do something more than than

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Speaker 1: nothing that they were doing. Now there's yeah. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand six, members of the Survivors Network of those of

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Speaker 1: you used by priests held a rally outside of the

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Speaker 1: Executive Committee's office in Nashville, Tennessee. Aggie accused the abuse

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Speaker 1: victims of coming at the committee with a quote adversarial posture,

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Speaker 1: which he used to justify his opposition to their requests

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Speaker 1: for reform. He was presented with a list of possible

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Speaker 1: procedures to address sexual assault by the committee, but he

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Speaker 1: ignored them. In two thousand eight, after Debbie Vasquez and

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Speaker 1: other abuse victims beg the SPC to set up some

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Speaker 1: sort of internal lists to track abuse within the faith. Right.

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Speaker 1: So that's one of the things Debbie and these other

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Speaker 1: victims asked is like, hey, could you guys keep it

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Speaker 1: like a list of the pastors who rape people, so

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Speaker 1: that like if they try to get a job at

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Speaker 1: a Southern Baptist affiliated church, it'll go like now that

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Speaker 1: guy molested database of some kind, yeah, yeah, registered like

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Speaker 1: a registry, like like literal yeah, it's see. It's again,

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Speaker 1: like the least you can do is be like, we

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Speaker 1: probably know if somebody molests kids, tries to get another

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Speaker 1: job where they can molest kids, right, Like that's again,

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Speaker 1: this should not be like a political issue in any way. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: should not be considered radical. Um. But they don't. This

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Speaker 1: does not pass Muster with the Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee.

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Speaker 1: UM and Boto drafts the rejection letter UM that they

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Speaker 1: send to Debbie Basquez when they asked for a form

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Speaker 1: and and his his justification for doing nothing was the

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Speaker 1: cherished Southern Baptist tradition of church autonomy. Right, the Executive Committee,

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Speaker 1: there's no central power in the Southern Baptist faith. Right,

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Speaker 1: we can't tell churches what to do, So we don't

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Speaker 1: have the authority to force them to report sex abuse

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Speaker 1: to a central registry. Right, that's just not what we are. No. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: we do things like demand that they oppose abortion and

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Speaker 1: that they say that women should be submissive to men. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And it works one but not the other, but not that.

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Speaker 1: But we could we could not. We couldn't make them

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Speaker 1: keep a list of all the people who read kids.

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Speaker 1: That's not cool. UM. So that's neat. It's neat that

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Speaker 1: that's the justification. UM. As a result, Aggie later said,

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Speaker 1: the committee quote realized that lifting up a model that

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Speaker 1: could be enforced was an exercise in futility, and so

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Speaker 1: instead they drafted a report that quote accepted the existence

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Speaker 1: of the problem, rather than attempting to define its magnitude. Again,

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Speaker 1: this is an and now an ancient Baptist tradition. Right,

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Speaker 1: bad things happen. We acknowledge that there's nothing we can

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Speaker 1: or will do about them. But they happen. We can

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Speaker 1: save their souls. Well, their souls are probably already saved

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Speaker 1: before the pastor molested them. He surely baptized them. So really,

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Speaker 1: it's other people we need to worry about. They're taken

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Speaker 1: care of. They're good to go to heaven, good to

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Speaker 1: go to heaven, even judged by the standards of his faith.

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Speaker 1: Bot host justifications are fucking nonsense. SPC churches work together

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Speaker 1: to share teaching materials. They have curriculum that is in

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Speaker 1: common across thousands of churches and schools. They share resources

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Speaker 1: to help expand and maintain the infrastructure of their faith,

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Speaker 1: and they pulled together money to fund missionary trips and seminaries.

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Speaker 1: There is ample precedent for at least a voluntary database

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Speaker 1: tracking sex abuse convictions and allegations among pastors. Right um,

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Speaker 1: it is a thing that would not be out of

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Speaker 1: step with other ship they have done. To their credit,

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Speaker 1: the Baptist General Convention of Texas did publish a list

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Speaker 1: of sex offenders who had served in Texas Southern Baptist churches.

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Speaker 1: You want, I guess how many names it contained. No? Eight? Ah,

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Speaker 1: that feels like, yes, that feels like it's everybody. I

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Speaker 1: was searching. I was thinking, twenty came to mind and

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, oh yeah, I have no idea.

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Speaker 1: But Katie, you have to remember, Texas is the smallest

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Speaker 1: state in the Union. It has the least people, right,

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Speaker 1: so there's just not a lot of folks there, of course,

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Speaker 1: so few. It seems comprehensive, you know. It seems like

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Speaker 1: they got them all um corner. Yeah, one for every

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Speaker 1: town in Texas. I remember growing up. That's why. That's

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Speaker 1: why it's eight flags over Texas. A flag everybody knows

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Speaker 1: everybody in Texas. So that's right. It's like it's like Iceland,

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Speaker 1: like that, me and my good friend Matthew McConaughey talking

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Speaker 1: about True Detective, where I mostly just say Reggie la

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Speaker 1: do until he hangs up the phone because he is tired.

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Speaker 1: He's got stuff to do, He's got stuff to Reggie.

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Speaker 1: It's not because it's not because he Reggie doesn't like

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Speaker 1: that didn't work. Oh no, no, that was perfect. That

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Speaker 1: was perfect. I might have gone with Reggie La didn't.

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Speaker 1: But it's all good. Oh that's what I meant to

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Speaker 1: do on it. It's all a banger. Uh. This this

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Speaker 1: is a fun joke for the three of us. That's

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Speaker 1: to remember True Detective and mainly the way that you

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Speaker 1: guys should really check out True to One one little

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Speaker 1: sleeper show that no, two words from one line of

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Speaker 1: one season of a show from like six years ago.

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Speaker 1: It's not two lines. That's that's a name that gets

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Speaker 1: said a bunch sure, And to be clear, he never

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Speaker 1: says it's like a verb or whatever. It's nearly all

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Speaker 1: of this is just us because it's funny. Why would

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Speaker 1: start doing a bit in the middle of hard boil

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Speaker 1: Detective series. I don't know. Uh. So Bodo comes to

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Speaker 1: these sex abuse of IRUs and it's like, look, there's

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Speaker 1: just nothing we can do. Because of the nature of

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Speaker 1: how the Convention is structured. We can't make people keep

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Speaker 1: a central database. It's just not possible. It would be

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Speaker 1: outside of the traditions of our faith. Um, you want

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Speaker 1: to know something fun. Yeah. Maybe it turns out that

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Speaker 1: for years and probably decades, the Executive Committee leaders kept

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Speaker 1: a database of sex offenders who had worked for the

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Speaker 1: Southern Baptist Convention. Fucking it was my guess did they

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Speaker 1: show anyone this list? Of course right to say specifically

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Speaker 1: that it's like against our faith or whatever the justification

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Speaker 1: basically say it too hard against our faith, not what

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Speaker 1: we do, but we do it. Of course we do it.

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Speaker 1: Come on, um, And I'm gonna quote now from an

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Speaker 1: interview with Russell Moore. He's a former spokesman for the denomination.

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Speaker 1: It was now a critic of the SPC, and this

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Speaker 1: is him commenting on the Houston Chronicle expose quote. Allegations

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Speaker 1: of sexual violence and assault were placed, the report concludes,

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Speaker 1: in a secret file in the SPC Nashville headquarters. It

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Speaker 1: held over seven cases. Not only was nothing done to

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Speaker 1: stop these predators from continuing their hellish crimes, staff members

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Speaker 1: were reportedly not told to even engage those asking about

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Speaker 1: how to stop their child from being sexually violated by

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Speaker 1: a minister Roger. Rather than a database to protect sexual

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Speaker 1: abuse victims, the report reveals that these leaders had a

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Speaker 1: database to protect themselves. Yeah, for sure, Now that's always

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Speaker 1: the way. I'm not an expert on morality, but I

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Speaker 1: think it might be arguable that if a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people who were molested, many of whom were molested as children,

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Speaker 1: come to you and say, please, for the love of God,

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Speaker 1: do something to protect us and other children who are

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Speaker 1: a threat in other people who are at risk, and

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Speaker 1: you instead ignore them to protect yourself. That might be

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing that where I God, I would

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Speaker 1: shoot you with lightning bolts for whoa. Hey, you can't

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Speaker 1: just put actions into God's mouth and fingers. Come on.

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Speaker 1: You don't know. It's been a while since I was

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Speaker 1: in Sunday School, but that does strike me as a sin.

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Speaker 1: I think I think that might be a sin. It

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Speaker 1: in this scenario, you laid out the person said for

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Speaker 1: the love of God, and in that scenario they would

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Speaker 1: be taking the Lord's name in vain. And I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's true, that's true. I don't know. I never

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Speaker 1: have to remember. We have to remember Mark sixty four

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Speaker 1: in which Jesus Christ said, and I quote, fuck them kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: famous famous Jesus sake. That really stick. It's that's like

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Speaker 1: because it's also because it's I have a tattooed across

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Speaker 1: my back. Yeah, some kids, most courthouses have it. Yeah, honestly,

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Speaker 1: like a little open commercialized. Don't you think I do.

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Speaker 1: It's printed so much, I don't know. It's like, yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: and loses his power a little bit. You're right, we're

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Speaker 1: doing lots of fun bits that distract our fun topic.

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Speaker 1: So they made this database, which they claimed they couldn't do,

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Speaker 1: just to protect themselves. And here's the thing, they weren't

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Speaker 1: even very good at protecting themselves or the Southern Baptist

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Speaker 1: Convention because the same pedophiles and molesters kept getting hired

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Speaker 1: again and again. As this devastating segment from the Chronicle

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Speaker 1: investigation makes clear, quote Doug Myers was suspected of praying

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Speaker 1: on children at a church in Alabam, Emma, but he

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Speaker 1: went on to work at Southern Baptist churches in Florida

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Speaker 1: before police arrested him. Timothy Timothy Redden was convicted of

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Speaker 1: possessing child pornography, yet he was still able to serve

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Speaker 1: as pastor of a Baptist church in Arkansas. Charles Adcock

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Speaker 1: face twenty nine counts of sexually assaulting a fourteen year

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Speaker 1: old girl in Alabama. Then he volunteered as a worship

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Speaker 1: pastor at a Baptist church in Texas. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: a really good way to um uh protect yourselves against

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Speaker 1: this would be to fire those people. You might say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would be the best way to protect yourself against

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Speaker 1: allegations of sexual abuse would be to fire those people

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Speaker 1: and to make clear in no uncertain terms that there

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Speaker 1: is no room for predators in your faith. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I'm not a pr person, but well, of

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Speaker 1: those things, nobody there would be no realistic reason, even

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Speaker 1: given all the right wing ship, there'd be no realistic

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Speaker 1: reason to be angry if a church, if a if

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Speaker 1: a denomination with forties thousand churches on a semi regular

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Speaker 1: basis found that people who were volunteering or working where

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Speaker 1: child molesters and fired them. Right, there's fourteen million people.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can't avoid that to some extent. You know,

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Speaker 1: if they were firing them and taking it seriously, would

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Speaker 1: just be like, yeah, man, it's there's fourteen million people

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Speaker 1: in the faith. Sometimes predators are going to try to

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Speaker 1: get in there, and all you can do is try

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Speaker 1: to build resiliency around that and make sure those people

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Speaker 1: are are removed when they pop up, and and you know,

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Speaker 1: constantly be sort of evaluating the degree how you can

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Speaker 1: make people safer from that um. Instead, the SPC does nothing, well,

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Speaker 1: they don't do nothing. They enable these folks a lot

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Speaker 1: of the time. So yeah, yeah, the other of the

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Speaker 1: the the opposite. Yeah, I'm gonna continue that quote from

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Speaker 1: the investigation quote. In Georgia, the pastor of the SPC

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Speaker 1: affiliated East Side Baptist Church near Atlanta announced it was

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Speaker 1: re examining its hiring practices after Alexander Edwards, a volunteer

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Speaker 1: youth pastor, was arrested in two thousand sixteen on charges

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Speaker 1: of sexual battery involving an eleven year old boy he

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Speaker 1: had met at the church. It wasn't Edwards this first

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Speaker 1: criminal charge while serving as a youth pastor at another

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Speaker 1: Baptist church a hundred and sixty miles away in Lee County,

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Speaker 1: south of Atlanta. Edwards was arrested in August two thirteen

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Speaker 1: and charged with using the Internet to find a child

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Speaker 1: for a sex act. That case was still pending when

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Speaker 1: Edwards began volunteering at east Side. He was convicted of

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Speaker 1: the two thousand and sixteen charges, and the charge in

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Speaker 1: Lee County was dismissed. So that's all good, It seems fine.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's bad. It really seems bad. What's it is bad, Katie?

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Speaker 1: But what's interesting about it here to me it was

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Speaker 1: on a kind of an intellectual level, is that obviously

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Speaker 1: this is all like Catholic Church ship right, like you

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Speaker 1: can find switch the names up and these are all

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Speaker 1: stories that you can find within you know, abuse by

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Speaker 1: Catholic priests. Um. But on paper at least, this, the

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Speaker 1: Southern Baptist Convention is basically has the opposite structure of

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, right, it's supposed to at least Catholic Church.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't get much more centralized, right, you have a

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Speaker 1: hyper atralized religious bureaucracy that vets and teaches every single

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Speaker 1: priest and also acts to shuffle them around and hide

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Speaker 1: what they're doing to protect church assets and resources. Among

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Speaker 1: Southern Baptists, pastoral assignment is, in one expert's words, kind

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Speaker 1: of the wild West. There's no regulation, there's no central authority.

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Speaker 1: Churches make their own policies for deciding who could be

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Speaker 1: a pastor there in many smaller congregation, all congregations. All

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Speaker 1: it takes is being a good speaker and getting enough

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Speaker 1: congregants to say, yeah, this guy. Um. The spc's response

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Speaker 1: to allegations has likewise been decentralized, with some leaders like

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Speaker 1: Paige Patterson taking action to help abusers, but with most

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Speaker 1: abusers seeming to slip through the cracks because there's nothing

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Speaker 1: but cracks. Um. Now, one thing I find fascinating here

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Speaker 1: is that, as different as the SPC system is, at

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Speaker 1: least on paper, from Catholicism, the guy who was probably

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Speaker 1: the leading expert on why the Catholic Church is a

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Speaker 1: funked up din of molestation immediately realized the SPC had

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Speaker 1: the same problems. Have you guys heard of the Reverend

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Speaker 1: Thomas Doyle for cool dude. He is a priest and

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Speaker 1: a former lawyer for the Catholic Church in the nineteen eighties.

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Speaker 1: He was the first major insider to blow the whistle

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Speaker 1: on child sex abuse by priests. Um. And so he

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Speaker 1: gets my coveted Good Catholic Priest Award, which I have

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Speaker 1: only given out to him and the guys from the

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Speaker 1: beginning of Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter, which is a pretty

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Speaker 1: good thing. Printed. Yeah, I did well. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna be honest, Katie, I had a couple of storage

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Speaker 1: facilities full of awards. Here, I'm taking a bath on

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Speaker 1: this one. I'm looking. I keep trying to give him out,

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Speaker 1: but I'm underwater here. I can't get my head above.

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Speaker 1: Life is long. Maybe you'll be surprised. The Good Reverend

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Speaker 1: became an activist after leaving the church, and he wound

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Speaker 1: up working with a number of victims of Southern Baptist pastors.

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Speaker 1: The stories they told him and the actions taken by

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Speaker 1: the SPC to keep things quiet sounded familiar. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand seven, he wrote letters, including one to SPC President

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Speaker 1: Frank Page, warning him, Hey, I think you guys are

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Speaker 1: doing a Catholic church right. So Page responded that they

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Speaker 1: were quote taking the issue seriously, but that there were

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Speaker 1: serious limitations to what they could do because of course,

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Speaker 1: we don't have any power over the churches that are,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously right, obviously even yeah. In March of

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Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen, Page resigned as President and CEO of

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Speaker 1: the SPC Executive Committee for what we currently know only

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Speaker 1: as quote, a morally inappropriate relationship in the recent past.

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Speaker 1: Oh what part of surprising? So this guy who fucking

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Speaker 1: this this good, this Catholic church whistle whistle blower reaches

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Speaker 1: out to Frank Page, who's the head of the SPC. Right,

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Speaker 1: he's their their president, which is like an elected kind

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Speaker 1: of position, reaches out to him in two and seven

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Speaker 1: and says, hey, there is a sex abuse problem. It

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Speaker 1: is systemic. You guys need to deal with it. Pages like,

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Speaker 1: we're taking it seriously. This is a challenge. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of limitations on what we can do, but trust me,

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Speaker 1: I take this seriously. Twelve years later, he has to

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Speaker 1: resign from the SBC Executive Committee because he has a

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Speaker 1: morally inappropriate relationship. We don't know anything else. We don't

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Speaker 1: know the age of that person, we don't know the

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Speaker 1: degree to which consent was it was not involved, We

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Speaker 1: don't know what exactly happened. Right that could mean, because

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Speaker 1: again of how these kind of people defined sex, a

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Speaker 1: morally inappropriate relationship could be he had a perfectly consensual

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Speaker 1: relationship with an adult that was outside of the bounds

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Speaker 1: of marriage. Or it could be that he was diddling

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Speaker 1: like a nine year old, right, like all of that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: no idea. What he did. One of the most important

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Speaker 1: things for Southern Baptists is what's called the Great Commission

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Speaker 1: now as and in fact a lot of them call

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Speaker 1: themselves great Commission Southern or Great Commission Baptists now instead

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Speaker 1: of Southern Baptists, and this believe that the Great Commission

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Speaker 1: is like the super special mission that God left for

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Speaker 1: them to do, to like recruit all the people that

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Speaker 1: you can um And obviously evangelicals believe the most important

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Speaker 1: thing you can do with the Gospel is to win

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Speaker 1: souls for Christ right like nothing else matters more than that.

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Speaker 1: This is why groups like the Joshua Project keep a

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Speaker 1: database of uncon tacted people's so they can convince dumb

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Speaker 1: young missionaries to go and get killed or spread disease

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Speaker 1: trying to share Jesus stuff with people who are perfectly

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Speaker 1: happy living wherever the funk they already are. Now, the

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Speaker 1: legitimate belief is that people they're legitimate belief. The legitimate

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Speaker 1: belief here that kind of drives this um is that

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Speaker 1: people cannot be saved without choice, and they can't choose

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Speaker 1: to accept God without knowing about it. So the logic goes,

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Speaker 1: since the afterlife is eternal and this life is not,

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Speaker 1: no amount of suffering in this world is worth more

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Speaker 1: than preventing damnation in the life after this. On a

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Speaker 1: small scale, this does lead some individual missionaries to take

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Speaker 1: on terrible risks and live in privation, to share their

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Speaker 1: faith on a big scale. It means that true believers

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Speaker 1: in this might do anything to avoid fucking up, say

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Speaker 1: the money that funds missionary activities. And this brings us

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Speaker 1: to the story. If Timothy Retton, the director of Missions

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Speaker 1: for the Central Baptist Association, now this is I think

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Speaker 1: it's time for an ad break. Maybe it brings you

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Speaker 1: to an ad break. Speaking of evangelism, you know what.

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Speaker 1: I'm a missionary for Katie Cody. Mm hmm. Products and

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Speaker 1: services that support this podcast. You're spreading good news. Let

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Speaker 1: me quote from Isaiah Jesus Christ cannot save your soul,

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Speaker 1: but the incredible products offered by Blue Apron and Shopify.

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Speaker 1: Can amen? Amen, praise him him being Blue Apron. Um. Yes,

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Speaker 1: before we come back, sorry, yeah, we're back at Cody

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Speaker 1: was just regaling us with the story of the years

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Speaker 1: he spent as a rodeo clown in Arizona. Not a joke.

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Speaker 1: Look it up. You can find the videos online. They

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Speaker 1: are out there. Um, let's get back to the story.

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Speaker 1: All right. I guess I've got more, so I got

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Speaker 1: more to say about it. But people can listen to

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Speaker 1: the Some More News episode that we can find it.

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Speaker 1: It's easy. Just talked about this. We have all talked

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Speaker 1: about it, of course we have constantly. Now, so we

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Speaker 1: were talking about how obviously, if nothing matters more than

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Speaker 1: winning souls for Christ, then nothing that the Southern Baptist

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Speaker 1: Convention does matters more than funding missionaries. Right, and so

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Speaker 1: anything is justified if it stops fucking up the money

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Speaker 1: that allows you to send missionaries places. And this brings

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Speaker 1: us to the story of Timothy Redden, the director of

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Speaker 1: Missions for the Central Baptist Association. This is a very

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Speaker 1: prestigious position, coordinating the activity of missionaries for twenty two

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Speaker 1: pretty prominent churches. Uh Now, in n while he was

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Speaker 1: doing that job, he was caught with child pornography and

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Speaker 1: sent to prison for more than two years. Now, I

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Speaker 1: might say that one thing that being caught with child

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Speaker 1: pornography means is that you should not be the head

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Speaker 1: of a sending people to missions um or maybe ever

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Speaker 1: close to children. Uh So, he did say, he did

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Speaker 1: promise if this makes you feel better. During the sentencing,

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Speaker 1: he told a federal judge that he would never molest

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Speaker 1: a child. Didn't make me feel doesn't make you feel better,

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Speaker 1: So I tried. He's prepared for it. But he serves

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Speaker 1: his term, he leaves prison, and he gets a job

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Speaker 1: as a pastor for one of the churches. He had

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Speaker 1: previously been a mission cord in Nigger four. So you

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Speaker 1: would assume they might have fucking known about the child

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Speaker 1: porn arrest. Shouldn't ex convicts have a chance to do

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Speaker 1: some things? Yes, perhaps not teach children if the arrest

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Speaker 1: is for child pornography. Not go back to if he

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Speaker 1: wanted to be I don't know, putting in dry wall

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Speaker 1: or something right, And again that's not think he gets

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Speaker 1: putting in dry wall, But you don't tend to spend

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Speaker 1: a lot of time teaching children as a contractor. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, whatever job he has after getting out of prison,

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Speaker 1: it probably shouldn't involve little kids at occasions that are

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Speaker 1: a certain distance from schools. From from schools. Sure, yes,

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Speaker 1: a number of things he could do that that don't

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Speaker 1: put him near children. Instead, he becomes a pastor. Um

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Speaker 1: so uh yeah, um, he becomes a pastor at one

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Speaker 1: of these churches he had worked for before, and in

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Speaker 1: July of two thousand and eighteen, he was arrested for

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Speaker 1: attempting to solicit a fourteen year old for sex in

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Speaker 1: an online chat. Um. Thankfully that fourteen year old was

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Speaker 1: actually a homeland security agent, but who knows what he

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Speaker 1: actually got up to, even it was just being creepy.

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Speaker 1: Outside of that, fingers crossed, he didn't actually get to

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Speaker 1: molest anybody, but you know, we'll never know. Coordinating missionary

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Speaker 1: work de facto puts you in contact with lots and

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Speaker 1: lots of young people, right, that's kind of who does

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Speaker 1: mission work. Mostly most missionaries are young adults. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of teenagers and young children who go on mission

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Speaker 1: trips sometimes because their parents are missionaries, right, and they

427
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: all live in you know, whatever foreign country they're doing

428
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: a mission. And obviously, by the way, there's a huge

429
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 1: ethical question about like colonialism and mission work, and we're

430
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: not really going to get into that today, um, because

431
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: that's much too big of a subject um for for

432
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: right now, but we will be talking about because of

433
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: what mission work is. There's a lot of little kids

434
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: around if you're going to be working in that kind

435
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: of environment. Um. And this brings us to our next story.

436
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote again from the Houston Chronicle George

437
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: Thomas Wade Jr. Had been spreading the gospel as a

438
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: missionary on African training farms and in bush villages for

439
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 1: six years when his Southern Baptist supervisors learned a horrifying secret.

440
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: The supposedly devout man of God was molesting his own daughter.

441
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: Supervisors met once privately with the girl, who was attending

442
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: boarding school in Johannesburg, and later consulted leaders based fifty

443
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: leaders based fifty or seven thousand, five hundred miles away

444
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: at the Richmond, Virginia headquarters of what's now called the

445
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: International Mission Board. Wade promised to stop. The supervisor said

446
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: his daughter said she was told to forgive Wade and

447
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: was sworn to secrecy. Here's the fucking kicker. Are you

448
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: guys ready for this ship? There's a kicker. No one

449
00:25:54,800 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: told Wade's wife, also a missionary, what he had done. What. Wow,

450
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: he molests their daughter. Everyone at the church knows. They

451
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 1: don't tell his fucking wife's horrifying. That's a fucking nightmare

452
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: business to tell her, you know, that is a fucking nightmare. Yeah,

453
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: it's outrageous when you do learn and to know that everybody, everybody,

454
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: Oh God, oh god, and you've liked this is again

455
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: as problematic as mission work is. This is you've dedicated

456
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: your whole life to mission work and like this, like

457
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: my god, what a fucking yeah. That's a betrayal right there.

458
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: That's like right up high, high level betrayal. That gets

459
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things I am running out

460
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: of is my awards for greatest betrayal, um, which I get.

461
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 1: So yeah that warehouses Yeah definitely, that was very empty.

462
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, um, I may move some of the best

463
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: priest awards over there. Just seems like maximize your space,

464
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, exactly, that seems art. Um So, his

465
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: daughter was never again asked about the abuse, which, by

466
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: the way, continued. He keeps molesting his daughter. She attempts

467
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: to kill herself when she is fifteen. She's still alive.

468
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: This is oh boy, um, I think this is the

469
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: early two thousand's. Uh. I just like to know where

470
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 1: when we are in time. Um. So, his his daughter, Uh,

471
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: you know, he keeps being molested by him, she attempts suicide,

472
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: she does does live. Um And she later testifies, quote,

473
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: I felt stupid for having told anything to anybody. The

474
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: concern was for my father. It didn't matter what happened

475
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: to me. And again, her soul saved, right, she's been baptized.

476
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: Her dad is winning souls. So whatever he does, whatever

477
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: he does, it's just so baked in this misogyny, this

478
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: idea that the man the ruler is the rule of

479
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: the household, and he specifically is the ruler of this congregation.

480
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 1: And look, I'm not a believer in the divinity of

481
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, but there's a historical case. There were certainly

482
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,239
Speaker 1: a guy in individuals that some of those stories were

483
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: written about. And I have to think that any one

484
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: of those people who was like the the actual historical

485
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: you know, uh, individuals rebels in a lot of ways,

486
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: who you know, we get our stories about Jesus from

487
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: if explained to this, if you could go back in

488
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: time and explain this story to them, would like get

489
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: a stick and start swinging, you know, like they would

490
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: they this this is like fun, right, Like this is

491
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,719
Speaker 1: fuck them up behavior, you know, like by anyone, right,

492
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: any moderately. Again, that's the thing like you to talk

493
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: about like like I don't know what goddamn fucking atheist

494
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: or degenerate weirdo hippie in the world who wouldn't like

495
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: fucking burn down a building if this was done like

496
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: to their family, you know. Um, But these people, these

497
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: men of God, love this ship. They're totally down. So.

498
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: The Southern Baptist Mission Board is the world's largest sponsor

499
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: of Protestant missionaries, and their official policy is revealed in

500
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: two housand nineteen, was to keep misconduct reports allegations of

501
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: rape and child molestation inside the church hierarchy, rather than

502
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: involving law enforcement or often even telling both parents. Um.

503
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: The focus was on protecting the Great Commission, not the victims.

504
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: In Wade's case, he was sent back home quietly. His

505
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: wife did not find out for three years until oh sorry,

506
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: here's the day of Katie. In June of nineteen five,

507
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: she learned her husband had abused three additional girls as

508
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: well as her daughter. So she finds out not as

509
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: only that her husband's molested their girl, but now three

510
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: other girls have been molested. Whow she's been married to

511
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: this guy? Um, and no one had told her. This

512
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: all comes out because her daughter gets pregnant at age seventeen,

513
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: not with anyway, but she's preparing to get married to

514
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: like the father of the baby. Uh. And dad decides

515
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: he's going to officiate the wedding, and for whatever reason,

516
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: this is like kind of the straw that breaks her back,

517
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: and she suddenly blurts out to her mom that like,

518
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: I can't, I cannot let my dad perform the wedding

519
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: ceremony because he's been sucking molested me for years. And

520
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: that's when Diana Wade finds out what fucking happened. So again,

521
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: she calls the cops right away. Her husband is arrested,

522
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: he is charged and convicted on five counts of felony

523
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: sex abuse, and he goes to fucking prison. Next, Diana

524
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: does the natural thing and files for divorce, right pretty clearly,

525
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: I don't think that needs explaining to reasonable people one

526
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: of the first steps, right, yeah, yeah not. According to

527
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: the church. The church who is her employer warns her

528
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: that her divorcing her husband is quote an unpardonable sin.

529
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: This is really upset. Not that I don't know that

530
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: this ship happens or happen. It's a fucking outrageous so

531
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: is Diana had, by her own admission, never wanted to

532
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: be anything but a missionary, but she was traumatized, as

533
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: was her daughter, and so She asks the church that

534
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: she had given so much of her life too, if

535
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: they could compensate her for the counseling and medical bills

536
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: that she and her kid are going to have to

537
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: go through, right baar fucking minimum. The SPC says no,

538
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: and they forced her to resign alongside her imprisoned husband.

539
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: In a letter she sent to her employer, Diana wrote, quote,

540
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: I am deeply hurt. I find it difficult to accept

541
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: it because of what Tom Malone did. My calling and

542
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: commitment and ministry are of no account and are to

543
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: be thrown away along with his. She's still saving souls,

544
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: She's still good for your math. Sounds very illegal. Ship

545
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: doesn't sound illegal? Yeah, it does sound like concealing a

546
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: serial child molester might have. There might be some things

547
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: that you could get in trouble for if you do that.

548
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: Firing someone for wanting to divorce their husband, well, actually

549
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: I think that probably is because it's a church, you know,

550
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: maybe they may have they may be unsafe ground there.

551
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,239
Speaker 1: I don't know. Again, not a lawyer, but I am.

552
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: In a quote next from the Chronicles reporting, Diana Wade

553
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: filed a lawsuit alleging that the mission board had broken contract,

554
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: true promises to protect her family, and increased harm to

555
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: her children by concealing her husband's criminal behavior. A jury

556
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: decision favored the family, but the Wades lost in nineteen

557
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: ninety one after the board appealed with the Virginia Supreme Court.

558
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: Mission board leaders were forced to address the allegations publicly

559
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: only because of the lawsuit. Board officials never said whether

560
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: they had later investigated if other children were abused by

561
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: Wade uh in all five cases, the Crown or sorry

562
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: board officials, they never said whether they'd investigated if other

563
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: kids had been abused by Wade while he was a

564
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: missionary in Kenya and bought Swanna from nineteen four Right,

565
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: They never investigated did he like molest any local kids?

566
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: This guy with power and effectively a lot of legal

567
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: immunity being a white missionary and like Kenya and Botswanda.

568
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: Did anyone like look into whether or not he did

569
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: anything there where this started? They didn't. Yeah, And in fact,

570
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: the Chronicle looked into five cases of missionaries who were

571
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: definitely abusing kids, um and yeah and no. At no

572
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: point in none of these cases was there evidence that

573
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: they had been investigated to see if they abused local children. Right,

574
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: So in five cases of people who abused missionary kids,

575
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: there were no investigations to see like they do anything

576
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: else else? Yeah, nothing else, looks nobody again, look at that.

577
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: They're not the only reason they look into this is

578
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: because they get caught. They're not open any lids. And

579
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: they certainly don't care pretty vile, non white, absolutely not.

580
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: They care about them not going to hell, but you

581
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: can get molested and go to heaven. Don't actually care

582
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: about that, do they? Yeah? I mean, I mean, but

583
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: don't they make it's about money and power, Like if

584
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: you're willing to funk a kid, you're actually not concerned

585
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: whether you might make that case. Right, that's a strong argument, Katie,

586
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: thank you now. In two thousand eighteen, the board sent

587
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: more than thirty missionaries over seas and managed a budget

588
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: of a hundred and fifty eight million dollars, which was

589
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: provided by tithes from church members. That is a big

590
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 1: bag to protect, right, And over the years, the Chronicles

591
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: investigation shows at least five salaried employees of the mission

592
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: Board were accused of or convicted of abusing two dozen victims,

593
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: most of whom were children. The problem was bad enough

594
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: that in two thousand four, the IMB established an abuse hotline.

595
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: The inciting incident for putting this together was a scandal

596
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: over a missionary named William mcel wrath, one of the

597
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: mission Board's most dedicated evangelists. He had been stationed in

598
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: Indonesia for decades, where as it turns out, he repeatedly

599
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: molested his colleagues children. Letters the man sent to his

600
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: own coworkers showed that he privately admitted to abusing colleagues

601
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: children thirty years before the story became public. He's like

602
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: righting his fellow missionaries, like, molested some kids the other day.

603
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: I feel a little bad about it. Well yeah, like well,

604
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: like this is like a casual correspondence, just like I

605
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: did this and I feel bad or I did this

606
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 1: and like everything's cool. Yeah, I think it's I think

607
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: it's I did this, and like I'm feeling kind of

608
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: kind of funky about it. Maybe it's bad to molest children. Um, look, Cody,

609
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: nobody's perfect. Or as I say perfect, I was going

610
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: to I was gonna explay black. One of his victims

611
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 1: was Linda de Varth. She had moved to Indonesia at

612
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: age eight with her brother and missionary parents. Mcel wrath

613
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: was the elder missionary there, and at first she thought

614
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 1: he was an admirable figure. He was a good writer,

615
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: he played the banjo. He was a very friendly, charismatic guy. Right.

616
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: He's kind of like the head missionary more or less,

617
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: because he's been there since for forever, and he's just

618
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: this this very charismatic person um. One of the things

619
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: she recalls about him is that he always had a

620
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: kid on his lap. In two, when she was nine,

621
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: Devrath became that kid, and mcel wrath fondled her. She

622
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: said nothing for five years, but when she did tell

623
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: her parents, her father, to his credit, reported mcel wrath

624
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: tow mission board officials in Indonesia. No action was taken,

625
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 1: the chronicle continues. By the time de Vart reported mcl

626
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: wrath in nineteen seventy seven, mission board leaders had already

627
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: heard similar accusations. Letters and other records show in nineteen

628
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: seventy three, he confessed to molesting another child and a

629
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: note was placed in his file, but mission leaders let

630
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 1: him continue to serve. In nineteen seventy eight, another incident

631
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: caused the organization to restrict mcel Wrath's interactions with children. Still,

632
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 1: he remained in the field. Board records and correspondence provided

633
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: by victims shows. Finally, in n de Vart and several

634
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: others wrote Jerry Rankin, mission board president from June nine

635
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: to July two thousand ten, complaining about mcel Wrath. That

636
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: same year, the board fired mcel wrath four in a

637
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: moral lifestyle unbecoming to a missionary. He immediately set to

638
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: work playing. Yeah so that's good, right, Yeah, this is fun.

639
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: Just like the phrasing for all this stuff is like

640
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: so uttered down. It's ultimate weasel word ship again for

641
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: these people who are all like fire and brimstone and

642
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: the inerrant word of God. There's a lot of like

643
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: a mistake was made and people were impacted. It's like

644
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: the best way to protect, the best way to respond

645
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: would be too loudly and boldly say there is no

646
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: place for this in our community. That's the I thought.

647
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: It's the only way to respond. If you're not responding,

648
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: if you're not saying that, then you're allowing it to

649
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 1: happen because people are aggressive response. Yeah, like I would

650
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 1: like to hear at least once that like, oh hey,

651
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: it came out that this this missionary or this pastor

652
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: had been a lesting kids, and one of his coworkers

653
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: hit him in the fucking face repeatedly, like some some examples,

654
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: like people are like outraged, Yeah, like yeah, what do

655
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: you do? Yeah? I mean obviously that doesn't isn't the

656
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: only solution that you should do. But would be nice

657
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: to know that like some of these people cared that much. Um.

658
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: He immediately set to work mcel wrath playing contrite because

659
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: again he knew that doing so was going to let

660
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: him get another position with the church and then he

661
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: could molest more kids. The way he does this is

662
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: by sending letters to six families he described as having

663
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: been impacted by his actions. One of these kids was

664
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: Linda to Vart. He wrote, please forgive me for having

665
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: touched you too intimately when you were a child many

666
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: years ago. I regret having abused a family like situation.

667
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: What kind of got an issue with that? You don't

668
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: think that's good? No, it's not good. He could Maybe

669
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: he's a second draft, a second draft, maybe a second

670
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: draft where I say I am walking into the sea

671
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: because the weight of my sins has has has so

672
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: shamed me. I don't know, maybe they'd be better at

673
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: least so de Vart's brother sent a letter to the

674
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: president of the Missionary Board, a former missionary named Rankin

675
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: who had worked in Indonesia with McElrath. He admitted he'd

676
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: heard quote ugly rumors about the man, but did not

677
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: support making a big deal about what had happened. Quote,

678
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: I see no constructive purpose by making a general accounting

679
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: of this matter to all our missionaries and a Southern

680
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: Baptists in general. Again, if you let people know they

681
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: might like protect themselves better again, then you don't care.

682
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: That's not your job. I gotta get that your flock.

683
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: You gotta get gotta get that flock, flock out with

684
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: your cock at Um they left probably well, I mean

685
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 1: they do that. Um. So after they left Indonesia, mcel

686
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: wrath and his wife moved to North Carolina, where he

687
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: joined a Southern Baptist church and started teaching piano lessons

688
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: to children. Um, that's probably fine. You know, kids never

689
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: sit in your lap when you're playing piano. That's not

690
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: a thing that could clearly happen. That's also very clearly

691
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: his fucking imo in two thousand to a group of

692
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: survivors learned that Micel Wrath was still volunteering with the church,

693
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: and they caused an uproar, demanding changes to the policy. No, no, no, no,

694
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: his actions caused the uproar. Yeah, yeah, right, well sorry,

695
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: that's that's my bad phrase. Apologize. You're right. Yes, the

696
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: fact that like, well, his actions and also the fact

697
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: that the church was allowing him to still volunteer rights

698
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: that is called that is definitely caused uproar. Yes, yes, um,

699
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: And these survivors are like, you need to like appoint

700
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: an independent advisory committee and commit to monitor perpetrators after

701
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: they're caught so that they don't keep getting positions in

702
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: different Southern Baptist churches. The board says no to all

703
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 1: of this, but they do set up a hotline. They

704
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: set up a hotline for mission abuse. You know, they

705
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: have a hotline, Katie. What more are they supposed to do?

706
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: The hotline? Yeah? Maybe I listen to this this American

707
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,959
Speaker 1: Life recently where they put up a tattle phone in um,

708
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: a kid's kindergarten classroom just to record what the kids say,

709
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 1: and it just goes to nowhere. It's just laughed at.

710
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool. I mean that's pretty cute. But I'm

711
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: just saying, yeah, a hotline, what the hell? Yeah. So

712
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: the board sets up this hotline and their attorney sends

713
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: an email to mcel wrath's victims. We want to affirm

714
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: our commitment to promptly and completely investigate any new charges

715
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: of sexual use made against missionaries, and to terminate or

716
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 1: and publicly expose any missionary found guilty of such abuse. Um. Which,

717
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: if you've done that, that might have been good. Five

718
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: years after they make this statement. So five years later

719
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: in Fort Worth, Texas, and Miller reports the missionary named

720
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: Mark Aderholt to the i MB. She said that he

721
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: had sexually assaulted She said that he had sexually assaulted

722
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: her when she was a teenage girl. The IMB investigates

723
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: her complaint found substantiates it. Right. The investigatory're like, yeah,

724
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: this definitely happened. And then they say nothing and do

725
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: not contact the police. Um, well you got to know

726
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: the guy did it. But then there's nothing else to do,

727
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 1: you know. Um. In their investigation, the Chronicle found a

728
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: litany of victims, like former missionary Dane Miller, who had

729
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 1: tried to report abuse and run into a stone wall

730
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: of silence meant to protect the great commission quote. Miller,

731
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: now seventy two, was born into the Southern Baptist world.

732
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: Her father and grandfather were both pastors. By age ten,

733
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: she knew she wanted to be a missionary, one of

734
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: the few leadership opportunities open to women. She and her husband,

735
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: Ron were thrilled to be appointed to Malawi in nineteen

736
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 1: seventy eight. There she met Jean Kingsley, a missionary since

737
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty. She visited his house in made nineteen eighty

738
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: four and he hugged her as usual. Then Kingsley quote

739
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: assaulted me quickly and skillfully, pulling me a foot off

740
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: the floor, continuing to tighten his arms as I struggled,

741
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: and he groped me until I yelled, commanding him to

742
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: put me down, Miller said in an email to the Chronicle. Miller,

743
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: who had worked with sexual predators as a nurse, reported

744
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: him to other mission personnel, nothing happened. Two years later,

745
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: she decided to make a written complaint after learning that

746
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: others in her mission family also had reported being inappropriately

747
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: touched or worse. Her complaint went up the chain of

748
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: command to leaders enrichment. Kingsley was permitted to resign rather

749
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: than be terminated. Miller described in interviews and in her

750
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: book how two other women, as well as a teenaged girl,

751
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: also complained, but said those reports were initially ignored and

752
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: inadequately investigated. Kingsley died in Texas in two thousand sixteen.

753
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: It's period when fermade and expose these people. But yeah, yeah,

754
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: the the thought of somebody that profits makes their career

755
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: off of being a certain person and positioning themselves within

756
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: the community in such a way. Two just be so violent. Um,

757
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: because it is violent like that. It's yeah, anyway, it's

758
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: it's ghastly. And then everybody that allows for it. But

759
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: just the just the act of yeah, I know, it's

760
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: like you run out of things to say that it's

761
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 1: new to react to all these horrifying stories. It's it's

762
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: um good, I would say, I'm good. Yeah, first, very

763
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: un good man. When you when you read all these

764
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: allegations in tandem, it's very clear what's going on here.

765
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: Predators have recognized for close to half a century that

766
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: missions provide them with a steady carousel of people who

767
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: are isolated from their families and support networks, and that

768
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: the structure of the Mission Board means that allegations will

769
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: be hushed up to avoid fucking with the money or

770
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: the sacred calling. Um. So obviously it's a great place

771
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: to be a predator. And you will also note that

772
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,720
Speaker 1: these perpetrators tend to be decades long veteran missionaries. Miller

773
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: describes Kingsley as well practiced like the way that he

774
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: abuses her. She says, like it is, he knew what

775
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 1: he's fucking doing, right. This wasn't like a crime of passion.

776
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: This was a guy who had perfected a method. You know,

777
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: um anyway, you know who else has protected perfected their methods?

778
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: The fine folks at a company Sears robot. That's right.

779
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: That's why Sears is still the most relevant name department stores.

780
00:44:47,880 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: Why Sears now? Yes, by Sears, Ah, we're back. So.

781
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: In two thousand nineteen, as I've noted a couple of times,

782
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 1: the Houston Chronicle and the San Antonio Express News published

783
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: a massive expose of sexual abuse within the Southern Baptist Convention.

784
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: One of their articles and these stuff still coming out,

785
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: dealt entirely with sex abuse cover ups within the Mission Board.

786
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: In response to this, a series of new proposals were

787
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,919
Speaker 1: put forward to finally do what survivors had been urging

788
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: them to do for twenty years. The president of the

789
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: i MB responded by warning that these proposals would cut

790
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: four and a half million dollars out of their budget

791
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: for the next fifteen months. This Baptist News reported, You

792
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: remember the Baptist News meant that seventy five fewer missionaries

793
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: regarding it sent into the field. Paul Chitwood, the president

794
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: of the Mission Board after the last guy had to

795
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 1: resign for sexual misconduct, told the faithful, we are praying

796
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: that through the growing generosity of Southern Baptists giving through

797
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: the lotty offering, a hundred percent of which goes to

798
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: fund our missionaries and their work overseas, we can continue

799
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: to fund not only our existing missionary work, but the

800
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 1: goal of growing that force by five hundred new missionaries.

801
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: That's concerned one. We should like stop shipped for a

802
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: minute until we figure out why all these kids are

803
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: getting molested. It's not like, shoot, how can we make

804
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 1: up for this loss of income. Let's let's expand plug

805
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: the followers, some of whom were molested by our missionaries.

806
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: When people don't get it, you love to see it now.

807
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 1: While all of this fais going on, decades of abuses

808
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: and cover ups and repeated fails to deal with entirely

809
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: foreseeable problems, the Southern Baptist Convention continued to hail the

810
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 1: conservative resurgence that had saved them from liberalism. The SPC

811
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: leadership said it was helpless to stop sex abuse, but

812
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 1: resolutely attacked any sign of liberalism from within the faith.

813
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: In public, they continued their long standing tradition of claiming

814
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: to want only the best for the people they condemned.

815
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: A good example of this came in two thousand fourteen

816
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:00,280
Speaker 1: when the Southern Baptist Convention passed a resolution on transgender people,

817
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: declaring that God had created two distinct and complementary sexes,

818
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: and that distinctions and masculine and feminine roles is ordained

819
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: by God, are not are are part of the created order,

820
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: and should find expression in every human art. And I'm

821
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,240
Speaker 1: gonna quote from the Baptist standard here for that reason.

822
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: The resolution says cultural currents, including medical treatments of gender dysphoria,

823
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: attempts by lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender activists to normalize the

824
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: transgender experience in public schools, allowing access to restrooms and

825
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: locker rooms according to children's self perception of gender and

826
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: not according to their biological sex. All run contrary to

827
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 1: biblical teaching. A summarized in the Baptist Faith and Message,

828
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: the spc's official doctrinal statement. The SBC resolution invites all

829
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: transgender persons to trust in Christ and to experienced renewal

830
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 1: in the Gospel. It affirms that we love our transgender neighbors,

831
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: seek their good, always, welcome them to our churches, and

832
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: as they repent and believe in Christ, receive them into

833
00:47:50,760 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 1: church membership. We love you, repent. However, the resolution does

834
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: mention off handedly that it opposes bullying transpeople. So that's

835
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: they didn't just like they didn't like lynching. That'll work.

836
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: That that nail it. None of the unpleasant unpleasantness thinking,

837
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: keep your big injury a little bit contained, a little bit.

838
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: Let the cops you like, you know, because they structure

839
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: of laws do it, you know. Yeah, contained enough, not

840
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: bring us dishonored by like doing it in an uncontrolled man. Yeah. So,

841
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: as a rule, the Southern Baptist Convention has stood to

842
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: the right of progress and every meaningful issue for the

843
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: last like forty years, there are just enough moderates that

844
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: they tend to count or have been just enough moderates.

845
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 1: They tend to couch their language in such a way

846
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: as to excuse the worst natural conclusions of their logic.

847
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: And um, you know, it's probably not surprising to note

848
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: that since two thousand eight the Conventions membership has has

849
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: shifted twenty points for the Republican Party. Um, like it

850
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: is gotten far right. Um. All of this is thanks

851
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: to the architects of the conservative resurgence, Paul Pressler and

852
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: Paige Patterson. They did this to stop what they saw

853
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: as the satanic immoral influence of liberalism. And in this

854
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: case that also that means like politically, they do mean

855
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: political liberalism in the way we're talking about, but they

856
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 1: also more directly mean like liberalism and interpretation of the Bible,

857
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: the idea that like, yeah, anyway, both men spent decades couching.

858
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: What they did is the only proper actions of godly

859
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: men trying to protect their flocks. You know, we're we

860
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: are acting morally, That's why we're doing this. In two

861
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: thousand eighteen, Paige Patterson was the former president of the

862
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: Southern Baptist Convention and preparing to retire as President Emeritus

863
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 1: of the South of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Dallas.

864
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: A special house had been built for him on campus

865
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: to live in in his retirement. It seemed as if

866
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: he was going to be one of those bastards who

867
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: retires ancient, wealthy and proud. But then his life fell apart.

868
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: A student came forward to report her rape three times

869
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: at gunpoint by a fellow student. She went to the

870
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 1: seminary and Patterson wound up having a one on one

871
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 1: talk about her. He told staffords that he wanted to

872
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: break her down, talked about how hot she was, and then,

873
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: in the victim's words, he demanded in graphic detail to

874
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 1: hear about the rape right um. Other employees report that

875
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: he made comments about her body. She issuing him for

876
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: inflicted emotional distress and for interfering with the police investigation

877
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 1: of her case. Because he also interfered with the police

878
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: investigation of what was an armed rape, this sparked a

879
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 1: broader investigation into the man, and a shipload of stuff

880
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: that was barely hidden beneath the surface came up and

881
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from a write up in The Advocate. Here,

882
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: Patterson came under fire for his years of advice to

883
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: women who had been abused or raped. He would tell

884
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: the woman to pray for their abusers. In one instance,

885
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: a woman approached him with two black eyes after going

886
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: back to her husband on Patterson's advice. She asked Patterson

887
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: if he was happy. He said, he told her yes,

888
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: and part of his reason was because the husband had

889
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: attended church that Sunday for the first time. I don't

890
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: like this real bummer episode. Man. The good news is

891
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: when all this comes out, he gets fired and he

892
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 1: loses his fucking house too. He doesn't get to live

893
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: in that house um the seminary. He gave his life

894
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 1: life to his distance itself from him and the lawsuit

895
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: against him. His ongoing news stories break on a weekly

896
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,720
Speaker 1: basis about known sex offenders that he sheltered or outright

897
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: helped into the seminary. The current president of the Southwestern

898
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: Theological Seminary or whatever refers to him just as a

899
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 1: previous administration when he regularly makes apologies about stuff that happened.

900
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: And then, of course there's our other founder of the

901
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: Conservative resurgence, Judge Paul Pressley. He is a former judge.

902
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: Now he's also a former SPC vice president, and he

903
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: has been accused by three members of a youth group

904
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: he used to run for groping or pressuring them into sex.

905
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: Three male members of a youth group. Um, yeah, I'm

906
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: not going to say this. Yeah yeah, oh god, I

907
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: mean for all of these guys, right, and it is

908
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: it is, it is continueing to come out right like

909
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: there there's a good chance there will be a new

910
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: article in the chronicle about all this ship but by

911
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,399
Speaker 1: the time you hear the episode, so I'm not gonna

912
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: say this story has a happy ending. Um. As of

913
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: the day this say is more than seven people have

914
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: reported being victimized by clergy employees are volunteers of SPC churches.

915
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: But there is some good news at the end of

916
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: all this horror and frustration. The poison that Pressler and

917
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: Patterson spilled into the SPC may in fact be waning

918
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: in potency. Now. I mentioned earlier that the denomination has

919
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: shifted twenty Republican by almost the last two over the

920
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: class like two decades. That is true, but in the

921
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: same time frame, the size of the faith has also

922
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: shrunk by more than two million members, and I'm gonna

923
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: quote from the Atlantic here. For more than a decade,

924
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: the denomination has been ex experiencing a precipitous decline by

925
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: almost every metric. Baptisms are at a seventy year low

926
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: and Sunday attendance is at a twenty year low. Southern

927
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: Baptist churches lost almost eighty million or Southern Baptist churches

928
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: lost almost eighty thousand members from two thousand and sixteen

929
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: to two thousand and seventeen, and they've hemorrhaged a whopping

930
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: one million members since two thousand three, four years. Southern

931
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: Baptists have criticized more liberal denominations for their declines, but

932
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: their own trends are now running parallel. The next crop

933
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: of leaders knows something must be done, and every year

934
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: if they have this convention right, that's why they're called

935
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: the SBC. They do a convention every year and they

936
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 1: vote on ship right. In two thousands and there's a

937
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: conservative faction. These are guys who today are constantly on

938
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: one American News and embrace Trump. And then there is

939
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: they're also conservatives, but the more liberal faction, and in

940
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen they defeated the Conservatives in the elections

941
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: that year, and a forty five year old pastor named J. D.

942
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 1: Greer was elected. He won sevent of the vote against

943
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,320
Speaker 1: a fundamentalist and stated that the denomination had to repent

944
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 1: for its quote failure to listen to an honor women

945
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: and racial minorities and to include them proportionally in leadership roles.

946
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: I mean also also stuff is like yeah, yeah, yeah,

947
00:53:56,239 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: you like yeah, it's just like that's good. It's it's

948
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: depressing that this is in reaction to their numbers dropping. Yeah,

949
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: it's like the math issue that we've been discussing this

950
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 1: whole time. Was like, oh, so they've noticed that, like

951
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: people are leaving, so they need to do something about it. Um,

952
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: It's like it is and that's said. I'm not going

953
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: to say that that's all Greer is concerned with. He

954
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: is the guy I quoted earlier from a document by

955
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,959
Speaker 1: the Theological Seminary that was like going into detail about

956
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 1: their history with slavery and stuff that all happens under

957
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: a Greer because he or he's like says like, look,

958
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: we have to reckon with the fucking racism in our back,

959
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: and like they do certainly a much better job under him,

960
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:39,879
Speaker 1: of that kind of sure, and like I'm not yet

961
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,720
Speaker 1: saying like one of the things that should be noted.

962
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: The SBC is where a lot of conservative bell weather

963
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 1: cultural issues get tested out, right, where they start to

964
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 1: work on the wording. Um, you may note that, like

965
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: in two thousand fourteen they issue a resolution condemning the

966
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: idea that trans people should be able to use bathrooms.

967
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: Um that's two and fourteen, right, that's a couple of

968
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: years before it becomes the you know, the big national

969
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: like issue that it becomes, right. Um, So it happens

970
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 1: here earlier. Um. In two nineteen, Republicans within the Southern

971
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: Baptist Convention forced a vote on a resolution condemning critical

972
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:23,839
Speaker 1: race theory. Right again like a little bit, a little bit,

973
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 1: And here's the fucking thing. The Convention refuses to condemn it. Um. Instead,

974
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 1: they issue admittedly a somewhat compromise statement, but in which

975
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: they say that the concept may be useful and valuable. Um.

976
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: Whereas the resolution the Conservatives had wanted to pass described

977
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:44,399
Speaker 1: it as neo Marxist and post like, yeah, no, it's

978
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: it's all Jordan B. Peterson A little bit or that

979
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: seems to be what's happening. Yeah, and also feel as

980
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: in nineteen is the year that the story drops, for

981
00:55:55,840 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: the story starts dropping about all these stations. So the

982
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 1: SPCs new leadership issued a number of statements condemning past

983
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: racism and the racism of the founders of the denomination.

984
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: More than that, they commissioned a large report on racism

985
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: in the founding of the SPC, which I have quoted

986
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: from earlier in these episodes. There's probably nothing I can

987
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: quote that will do a better job of showing the

988
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:21,719
Speaker 1: positive trend than by noting quoting right wing ghoul Tom

989
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:26,240
Speaker 1: Askell writing for Founders Ministries about the convention in Nashville.

990
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: Several things happened at SPC twenty one, and many, if

991
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 1: not most, of them are deeply concerning to grassroots Southern

992
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 1: Baptists who love Christ, fear God, tremble at his word,

993
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: and want to cooperate for the cause of missions and

994
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: evangelism with others who are like minded. Um. And obviously

995
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: he's complaining that another person who is not a fucking fascist,

996
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: uh won the election, and and the week that we

997
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 1: are doing this reading, um, they have just had another election. Um.

998
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: At the spc um and the uh the guy who

999
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: uh one second, sure that's right? Uh yeah. Um. So

1000
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 1: the guy who runs for the right wing side is

1001
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: Florida pastor Tom Askell, who we just heard from right,

1002
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: um and askole like runs specifically ran specifically by attacking

1003
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: the left word drift of the Southern Baptist Convention on

1004
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: issues of gender, sexuality, abortion, and critical race theory. Right yeah. Yeah.

1005
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: He loses to a small town Texas preacher um named Barber,

1006
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 1: who is a once I want to read you a

1007
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 1: quote from this because this all just came out like

1008
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: I just read this today. Um. So Askell run like

1009
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 1: calling for Baptist to be culturally uncompromising. He's in like

1010
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: he's he does interviews for One American News, Real America's

1011
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: Voice and the Daily Wire. Um. You know he's he's

1012
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: going hard into all of this culture worship, right um.

1013
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: And this is like the guy he runs against is um,

1014
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: this guy Barbara who's a pastor in rural Texas. And

1015
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: despite what that might make you think, is like he

1016
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: he runs on, among other things, fundamentally changing the way

1017
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: things are done at the SBC because of the sex

1018
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: abuse scandal. He wants to expand the role of women

1019
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 1: and like stop the kind of war on women pastors

1020
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 1: and stuff. He wants to continue the discussions they're having

1021
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: about race, um, and he doesn't want the Southern Baptist

1022
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: Convention to just keep plunging into the culture wars on

1023
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: behalf of the Republican Party. Sounds like a pretty good guy,

1024
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: and he within, at least within the context of the

1025
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: Southern Baptist Convention, a better guy for sure than Askell,

1026
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: who's a real asshole. He Barbara wins six. That's what

1027
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 1: happened today, very recently, the last like day or two

1028
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 1: this week. That's great. That's wonderful. Yeah, that's broadly speaking,

1029
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 1: better than how the news could be. Yeah, good for them.

1030
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: I love this, uh sorry, just this this Daily Wire

1031
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,919
Speaker 1: headline about this earlier which I think it's very telling.

1032
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: Its Southern Baptist nominated Tom Askell to leadership to combat

1033
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: woke drift in the largest Protestants of nomination. It's very funny. Yeah,

1034
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: well he lost pretty pretty badly. Not a close election

1035
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: nine or whatever, not not super close. Um, it's not

1036
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 1: a nailed by down like to combat woke drift is

1037
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 1: what it said. No, it sounds like they want to

1038
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 1: listen Cody Katie, there's like a wokeyo drift joke somewhere.

1039
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 1: We should put a penalty. Figure that out later. Um.

1040
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 1: I wanted to end by quoting that Atlantic article that

1041
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 1: I quoted from earlier, cited a pastor named Adrian Rodgers

1042
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: who said, quote, as the West goes, so goes the world.

1043
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: As America goes, so goes the West. As Christianity goes,

1044
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 1: so goes America. As Evangelicals goes, so goes Christianity. And

1045
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: as Southern Baptist goes, so do Evangelicals. Obviously that's a

1046
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 1: very Western, shavunous way of looking at things. But within

1047
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: the context of as Southern Baptist go, so go Evangelicals

1048
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: and perhaps even Christianity, there's some truth in that. And

1049
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: it's not a bad sign that the Southern Baptist, for

1050
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 1: like four years now, as America's culture worse have gotten worse,

1051
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: have like pretty consistently been rejecting the idea that their

1052
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: faith should lean into that ship. Yeah, like tempering that

1053
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: sort of impulse. It's not a bad sign. Right, there

1054
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: are worse things happening. That's a really insightful and lovely

1055
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: way to wrap this horror horrible story. Betty bad story,

1056
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 1: pretty bad story. Yeah, something hopeful a little bit but

1057
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, something hopeful. All Yeah, So

1058
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, who knows what's going to

1059
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: happen in the future. Um, if you're a Southern Baptist

1060
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 1: who's plugging to turn your faith back to its roots

1061
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: as the faith where they were going to abolish gender

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01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: and destroy the male supremacy, good luck. Yeah, there's some

1063
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 1: some power to you, right. Um, I don't know you

1064
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 1: guys got any plug doubles? That's nice? Um, yeah, they

1065
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: know plug This Daily Wire piece, Um, yeah, the Daily

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01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 1: Wire You gotta check it out Matt Welsh's documentary What

1067
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 1: Is a Woman Real Gina Corono. We have a podcast

1068
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 1: Acting More News, and a YouTube channel called Some More News, uh,

1069
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: and the Patreon and all sorts of fun stuff that

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01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 1: goes along with it and also tweet all kinds of

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01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: Starting in July, you can listen to our new podcast,

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01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: Cancel Gasm, where every week we'll talk to a new

1073
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 1: victim of cancel culture. The book Rise Up like zombies,

1074
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 1: like these, they're kind of all the same. It might

1075
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 1: I recommend you actually just like Order After the Revolution

1076
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 1: from a K Press Robert Roberto before I get canceled

1077
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: for it for telling the truth about fiction all right.

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01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 1: Lovely Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

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01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

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01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 1: zone media dot com, or check us out on the

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01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

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01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: your podcasts.