1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Enjoy this throwback episode of Black Tech, Green Money holiday season. 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: You you know the board of your company when you 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: should know them, right and when you're sitting in the 4 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: C suite or or have some kind of a role 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: that requires that you interface with them on a regular 6 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: basis or any basis, that's fine. Otherwise I assure you 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: you will not become a member of the c suite 8 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: if you spend your time trying to get to know 9 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: your directors. You should try to spend your time getting 10 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: to know your job. I'm well, look as this is 11 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: Black Tech, Green Money, and I'm so excited to bring 12 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: you this episode because I was there in real time 13 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,319 Speaker 1: when it happened. This is the conversation that happened at 14 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: Afro Tech Executive in Brooklyn, and it was with the CEO, 15 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: the former CEO of ze Rox, Miss Ursula Burns, who 16 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: was CEO of Xerox from two thousand nine. She was 17 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: the first black woman to be c O a Fortune 18 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: five company and the first woman to see another woman 19 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: as had of a Fortune five visual company. Sister you 20 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: all around. Most pertinent to today's conversation is her board roles. 21 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: Miss Burns sat on the boards of directors for more 22 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: than fifteen companies, including Boston Scientific, University of Rochester, m 23 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: I T Corporation, American Express, Exim Mobile, Boolber, White Star, 24 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: and more. During this conversation, which was held at a 25 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: pro tech executive Brooklyn, have you you had a recurring 26 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: theme you should not miss another apro tech executive. By 27 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: the way, we're gonna be in d C in a 28 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: couple of weeks. But anyway, back to today's conversation, she 29 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: thought we had the Higles, managing partner at Black Ops 30 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: Adventures and founder of path Right. If you have any interests, 31 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: listen to me. If you have any interest in one 32 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: day sitting on a corporate board, listen, keep your ears locked. 33 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: And if you want to build a big company, listen, 34 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: keep your ears locked. Because boards are where the decisions 35 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: are made. Boards are where you where they decide if 36 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: you're gonna keep your job as CEO. As a matter 37 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: of fact, understanding how many work is the best thing 38 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: you can do with your next forty minutes more. Welcome 39 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: to Rsula Burns to see you. Welcome. Yeah, where's my cousin? 40 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: Where's your cousin? Let's wait wait, where is she? Hi? Cousin? 41 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: Thank you for being here. She's my cousin and I 42 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: always call her my niece because she's so much younger. Cousin. 43 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: How your girlfriend. Yeah, we're glad you're here. Hey, thank 44 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: you so much for being here today. You are again 45 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: one of these amazing pioneers that has paved the way 46 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: and been a model to folks like myself and all 47 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: the women in this room. So I want to start 48 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,679 Speaker 1: by saying, thank you so much for everything you've done, 49 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: for being you. You know, I'm gonna give the real 50 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: brief version because you've done so much that we don't 51 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: have time to get into all that we want to 52 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: hear from you directly. Okay, Okay, we go, but you know, um, 53 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: your your legendary position as the CEO of Xerox and 54 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: doing such a huge acquisition for them, and all the 55 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: other things that you've been doing. We want to hear 56 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,839 Speaker 1: some of what you're doing today. UM. So I hope 57 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: we'll get into it. So thank you so much. UM. 58 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: We The last question we ended on I thought was 59 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: very helpful, UM, which was, um, the question was is 60 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: it enough to be a black woman and be the 61 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: direct And Merlin's answer was absolutely not. And if if 62 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: a person selecting you for a board just because of 63 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: your demographics, that's not the board for you. So I 64 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: think from the CEO UM perspective, what do constructive value 65 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,239 Speaker 1: add directors look like and how do they behave versus 66 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: somebody who's kind of taking up airspace and and not 67 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: helping the management team do their thing. Yeah, I heard 68 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: the question the last couple of questions, and I must 69 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: say I don't agree. Okay, I absolutely don't agree. Let's 70 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: say this all the time. First of all, no company 71 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,679 Speaker 1: is going to come to you and say you're totally 72 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: not a knowledgeable about anything to do with business. But 73 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: but just because you happen to be black and a woman, 74 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: were going to put you on the board. So that 75 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just not a viable company. So that 76 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: I would, I would just that's not a thing that 77 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: I mean unless they're absolutely ding dongs, which you wouldn't 78 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: want to be with anyway. But so if they've come 79 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: to you, they found you, they look at some kind 80 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: of a profile and the reason why you are the 81 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: next person that they would pick is because you're a 82 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: black or a woman. I'd go just as quickly as 83 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: not for so long we have been excluded because of 84 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: the way that we look. I absolutely tell you, I 85 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: say this all the time. It's about damn time that 86 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: we were included because of the way that we look. 87 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: So I absolutely okay. Now, this whole thing about being 88 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: on boards, I gotta say, this is the I've been 89 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: on It's not always crack up to be guys, be 90 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: careful here. I mean, it's good and it's fun and 91 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: it's all that stuff. You don't get anywhere near as 92 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: much money as you think. It takes a ton of time. 93 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: It's not doesn't always take a ton of time, but 94 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: when it takes a ton of time, it takes a 95 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: lot of time. And you can't say things like I'm 96 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: busy like well, I mean that's the reason why you're 97 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: sitting here. We want you to be busy on this right, 98 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: not on other on other things. And sometimes it's just 99 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: it's not fun. I mean you you know, you go 100 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: on the boards of banks and insurance companies. Is that's 101 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: not your thing? You sit there and try to figure 102 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: out what that am I doing here? That's the and 103 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: then the last is the group of people that you're with. 104 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: Forget the management team, but the directors. If they're not 105 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: worth your time. Don't go because you'll it just isn't 106 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: that much fun. It's the thing that we're all running 107 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: after now. But that thing has been run through by 108 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: white guys already, and now they're handing it to us 109 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: and saying, women and you can do it right, we're coming. 110 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: So I I actually I like boards. Yeah, I like boards. 111 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: I don't get me wrong. It's an important thing to do. 112 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: If you can do it, you gotta be unbelievably selective. 113 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: Unbelievably selective. I mean, what are you selecting for? First 114 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 1: of all, the team with people that you're gonna be 115 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: sitting around the table with the other directors. Yeah. The 116 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: second is the company. I mean, you know I've been 117 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: on What are they doing? I mean, if you're not 118 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: interested in what they're doing? You know some In the beginning, 119 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: of course, I was highly just like everybody else is here, 120 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: I want to be on one. So I picked a 121 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: road striping company. You know, they they picked me. I 122 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: didn't pick them. They picked me. I had been by 123 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: the way. It was. It was fun. I ended up 124 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: loving the guys. But the product, I mean it was 125 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: it was glass beads for road striping. And I learned 126 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: a lot from the company. But when they you know, 127 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: we would go on plant tours and oh what what 128 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: am I doing? So I'm making fun of it, but 129 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: be careful, be aware that this sounds great, but it 130 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: takes a lot of time and a lot of energy, 131 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: and it takes a lot of your emotional time. And 132 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: you you know, you've got to read stuff beforehand. You 133 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: have to have some reason besides just saying I'm on one, 134 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: that you want to be involved. The last thing I'll 135 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: say on this thing. If you can get on a 136 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: private company, go board a pre I p O board. 137 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: I would do it every single day before I go 138 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: on a public company board. Every day you get paid 139 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: more money, you get more involved in the company. The 140 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: chances of getting rich are better. In a public company. Literally, 141 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: your compensation is contained and reported to everyone. Every single year. 142 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: You can't make more than x l Y money dollars. 143 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: That's if you have one meeting or five meetings. Literally, 144 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: the same amount of money goes whether you have one 145 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: or five hundred. You never have one, right you have 146 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: six or seven. But somebody talked about this. If you're 147 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: in trouble, I want to board a X on Mobile. 148 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: X On Mobile just had a proxy fight. X on 149 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: Mobile has ten meetings a year normally proxy fight year. 150 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: How about and you just do you have to do 151 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: them now? They make it a little bit easy for you. 152 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: They've tried to find a time that you can do it. 153 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: But it's not you know, it's not. It's not always 154 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: cracked up to be. I would, I would really be 155 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,719 Speaker 1: careful about running after this one last thing. I keep 156 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: saying the last thing. There is no way you can 157 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: be on four or five boards. Literally, proxy firms like 158 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: last Lewis, etcetera won't vote for you. You will literally 159 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 1: it's not allowed. You have to be on a certain 160 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: number for your CEO. I was on three when I 161 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: was the CEO. Fortunately, two of them were easy, you know. 162 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: One of them was American Express, one of the best 163 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: round companies out there. Ken also amazing CEO. The board 164 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 1: was phenomenal, so you could actually do that, and you 165 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: can do another one that's not so. American Express was time, 166 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: but easy time, if you know what I mean. It 167 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: was not a crisis. Another company that was on was 168 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: a crisis and I took a lot of time. And 169 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: then the third was in the middle. So it's not 170 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that you do a lot of 171 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: and it's not you don't get rich and famous, little don't. Yeah, 172 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: I want to push back on that, on that last point. Um, 173 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: so you're on the board or have been on the 174 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: board of Uber. I'm still on the boarder was still 175 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: on the bo board of Uber. So they've gone through 176 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. Um, what's that been, like? How 177 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: does that work? And how I'm consuming is it? Well? 178 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: I was on the board of I got on the 179 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: board of Uber as an out come of the mess, Right, 180 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: So I wasn't I didn't. I wasn't clean up. You 181 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: weren't in them. I wasn't clean up. Yeah, I wasn't 182 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: clean up. I was at the very I was the 183 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: last board member, myself and another guy named John than 184 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: who were put on by Travis. And if remember when 185 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: this whole thing blew up, Travis had three board seats 186 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: as part of his last fight. As part of his 187 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: last fight, he was one and he picked two others 188 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: myself and John were And then soon after that, did 189 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: you know, Travis, he just picked you out of the Yeah. 190 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of there's a whole bunch 191 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: of stories behind how you know, how you get picked 192 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: for this crap. But I'm trying to get the dirt 193 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: for y'all. I hope you appreciate this. Okay, you know 194 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: I'm trying. I'm trying, Morrigan. I'm at a point in 195 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: my life. This may sound like both. I'm on the 196 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: point in my life that I asked. I'm getting I 197 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: get asked every day to bet on the board or something. Right, 198 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: So it's now, But at that the end of the day, 199 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: you say, well, then it's all because the money is 200 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: all pretty much locked. If you're public, it's pretty much 201 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: there's a very narrow band. So it's all you're picking 202 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: for then is the team of people and the content 203 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: of the company. It's not about the money. Unless if 204 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: private is better, like I keep saying, it's a it's 205 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: a little bit easier. There's definitely more upside um. You 206 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: learn a lot more because it's not as structured, so 207 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: you have you have to set it up yourself. You know. 208 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: Part of the part of going part of being private 209 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: to go public is this whole idea of structuring the government. 210 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: So anyway, yeah, I'm traveling. Uber turns out to be 211 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: a really, really, really great company. Okay, your experience is great. 212 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: That's what you're saying is there's everything about it now 213 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: is so they were in a lot of trouble, right 214 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: and they were, and it wasn't because of profitability. You know. 215 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: The story was this crazy place. Yeah, crazy culture, crazy leadership. 216 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: Actually probably maybe good at individual people. I never got 217 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: to know them, but together they were definitely not a 218 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: group of people that you want to hang out with 219 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: a whole lot. And we when we went in, the 220 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: board was being restructured for this disaster, and so the 221 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: company was aware. Travis was even aware who Travis, who 222 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 1: are like and respect and think he's smart. Like I said, 223 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: I don't think he could run a public company. That's 224 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: not his thing, right, he should have never gotten there. 225 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: But um, I mean starting it is good. I mean 226 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: you just go there's a point where you go a 227 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: little bit too far and it's not your specialty and 228 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: you shouldn't really be engaged in it, and it's the 229 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: Peter principle. But anyway, when you get on. When we 230 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: got on, we realized quickly that this company was you know, 231 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: a small, small I p O company with a market 232 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: valuation of sixty billion dollars, it's not it's like a 233 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: this is not a game anymore, right, you had it, 234 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,599 Speaker 1: So you have to actually adults in the room. And 235 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: so they got old adults in the room, myself and 236 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: John and some other people who knew about things. But 237 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: the thing that was interesting was that they were also 238 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: very aware that they were on the edge in every 239 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: country of being just like debarred that they were hated. Right, 240 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: they were used. They were part of it, but they 241 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: knew that if they didn't do something, it would be 242 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: a problem. So fortunately they we were bought on the 243 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: board the last two, but the whole board realized and 244 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: the management team we got to do something big, and 245 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: so we brought in the new CEO, Dara, who used 246 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: to run Expedia. He's amazing, he's really really good. This 247 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: is you know, he's the guy who I the firm, 248 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: who I always look into when we went through the 249 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: Charles the George Floyd thing. And they're voting the first company, 250 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: the first company that signed up for everything without reading 251 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 1: the damn papers that I'm in and this and this 252 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: is the influence you have by being on that board 253 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: and talking to the CEO and making sure that they 254 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: can be responsive and what the kind of the kind 255 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: of multiplier effect that has when something like George Floyd happens. 256 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: So that's the influence and impact you get to have 257 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: by being on that that Uber is good. Uber is 258 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: a cool company. Exit Mombile is a little bit more challenging. 259 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: It's very structured, very legal, it's very risky. You know. 260 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: It's just it has a big operation in Russia. So 261 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: now we're sitting here going, okay, now what you know 262 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: not what are you're doing? You can't go visit it. 263 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: You can't you know, you have to get out. You 264 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: can't just leave because so you know it, it becomes 265 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: very complicated. So you gotta be aware that when the 266 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: good comes to bad, when the bad comes, you gotta 267 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: do the work. Do you select certain or do you 268 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: have certain committees that you only serve on or always, always, always, 269 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: always every board that I'm on on on the Order 270 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: committee number one. Yeah, that that's where I started with 271 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: you to me, and I think it's such a good 272 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: learning experience, even for a company that's about to go public, 273 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: knowing how you have to get everything in order, from 274 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: cybersecurity to your tax situation, all that has to be 275 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: clean before you go public knowing how to do all 276 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: that stuff. From the audit perspective, if is every company 277 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: needs that, is that why, well, well I'm a I'm 278 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: with a sitting CEO, so I'm a certified financial expert, 279 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: so I can do it. The problem with being on 280 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: the Order committee is that it's real work. This is 281 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: not I mean, I mean really like you have to 282 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: sign your name to stuff that I've read this, It's 283 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: not like. It's not like nominations and governance where you 284 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: can get which is now how we gonna let's not 285 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: slam Now I'm good. I take that very seriously. By 286 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: the way, Terry, now I'm gonna. But I was just 287 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: saying how important it is. Not not so four committees 288 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: what it is required. Nobody wants to do it. Nobody 289 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: wants to do it. It's a lot. It's so if 290 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: there are seven board meetings in the year, they're ten 291 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: Order Committee meetings, right, So it's just a lot more work. 292 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: It's it is if you're not into it, kind of boring. 293 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: And if you're not good at it and don't just 294 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: don't do it. I mean, there's no reason to do it. 295 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: There's a lot of other things you can be doing, 296 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: and I just happen to like it and and be 297 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: good at it. That's to reason. Nomanov is important, important, 298 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: and compensation is important. So the two rocking committees are 299 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: those two, right, Nominov which is a whole bunch of 300 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: glory and comp which everybody seems to like you because 301 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: you control that what salary the CEO and other people 302 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: and some people like that. But I think any committee, 303 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: I think you know, any committee is fine. It's something 304 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: that you can be useful on, that you can contribute to. Okay, 305 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: now I tried to get you to answer this, but 306 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonna try again. Which is that, um, having been 307 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: the CEO, I know that you've had favorite directors, or 308 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: at least favorite directors, and I want to know more 309 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: about that so that when they get on the boards 310 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: they know how to really Like I've been told by 311 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: the CEO, I'm his favorite director. Right now, I'm like, 312 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly what I did, but I think 313 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: it helps that I've been a CEO and I know 314 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: how to not micromanage, you know, give him alerts about 315 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: whatever it is. But what from your perspective, what makes 316 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: for a great director? Knowing what their jobbers. One of 317 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: the one of the big challenges always every board I've 318 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: ever been on, small, big, private, public, there's at least 319 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: one director who actually wants to run the company and 320 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: who who actually act questions like you know, what was 321 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: the turnover of the popcorn, and it's like who that's 322 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: not That's something that's interesting that you should probably talk 323 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: to the CEO about over lunch, but it's not a 324 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: director level of question, and so knowing the most challenging 325 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: I've been CEO of two public companies. The most challenging 326 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: thing is a bad director. It is unbelievably bad. Um. 327 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: It's very difficult for the CEO. It's usually very time 328 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: consuming for the rest of the board because they're generally 329 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: out of sync and a lot of you know, we 330 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: get down a lot of rabbit holes, and it's and 331 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: it's hard to get rid of a director. Once you 332 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: get them on. It's reputationally very challenging to just kind 333 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: of throw them off or you can't. You can't just 334 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: throw them off, and it's just very it's a very 335 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: challenging thing. So the first thing is to make sure 336 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: that you know what your what your job is, and 337 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 1: it's generally not to run the place. And if it is, 338 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: if you are trying to run the place, to see, 339 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: you should probably be changed. I mean, you've got the 340 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: wrong boss. So that's what that person's job is. The 341 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: other thing is it did someone just asshole personalities that 342 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: you just don't want to be part of. And everybody 343 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: has a different swing lane that they're into, So let's 344 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: make sure that's why it's really important to the the group 345 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: that is there already, Just make sure that you like 346 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: the group that's there. Okay, that's very helpful. Now for 347 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: people who are still coming up in their careers and 348 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: they want to, um get experience to know how to 349 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: interface with directors and and that sort of thing. Um, 350 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: are there things that they should do to know the 351 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: boards of director, like the directors on their company or 352 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,959 Speaker 1: anything like that. Okay, Okay, to be away from this 353 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 1: is okay, it's a bad thing. Stay away from this. 354 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: You you know, the board of your company when you 355 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: should know them, right and when you're think in the 356 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: c suite or or have some kind of a role 357 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: that requires that you interface with them on a regular 358 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: basis or any basis, that's fine. Otherwise I assure you 359 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: you will not become a member of the c suite. 360 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: If you spend your time trying to get to know 361 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: your directors, you should try to spend your time getting 362 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: to know your job, right because it's it is really, really, 363 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: really risky. This is not a game of politics at 364 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: this level, right, they are governed into your operations. When 365 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: you get in the governance, then there's a lot of politics. 366 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: But you can't play politics when you're the surf and 367 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: they're the king, right, So it's not the kind of 368 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: thing that that you do. You should just stay this 369 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 1: is becoming right, So we spend we're gonna spend twenty 370 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 1: five minutes talking about boards of directors where the vast 371 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: majority of people in this room will never serve on one. Right. 372 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: Before you do that, you got to get to the 373 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: point where people say, yeah, we want that person to 374 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: serve on one. And the way that you get there 375 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: is that you have to actually do work that somebody 376 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: says that's reasonable. That's a person who's being the CFO 377 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: of some company is a really good idea. It's a 378 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: good it's a good checkpoint so you can get through. 379 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: Being the CEO obviously is a really good idea. If 380 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: you have some really specific tech skill. If you're a 381 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: master at cybersecurity, if you're good at digital marketing, or 382 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: are one of these things, then you can be selected. 383 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: But if you're just an employee of a company, just 384 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: it's not a bit justice, not a demeaning just it's 385 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: just like just um, if you're that, you know, spending 386 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: your time to try to maneuver your way into the boardroom, 387 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: it's really not the most useful. It's not the most 388 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: useful thing. I if I could say over and over again, Guys, 389 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: when it comes, it will come. Look for it. Don't 390 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: spend your time not looking, you know, look for it occasionally. 391 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: When it comes, it will come, and you'll be ready. 392 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: If you get there before you're ready, it's a waste 393 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: of goddamn time. It's not that much money, and it's 394 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: it's it's just it's yeah, And it's not that much 395 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: fame and fortune unless you get unless you get on 396 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: the board of um, Apple, Amazon, let's talk to there's 397 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: probably fifteen companies that you if you can get on 398 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: the board of Airbnb before it goes, you know, those 399 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: kinds of companies. Yeah, that's great. Otherwise it's just otherwise 400 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: you're an unsung hero. It's for your gratification. Okay, it's 401 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: just work. Okay, great, excellent, got it um? Okay, I 402 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: think yes, she is so real and that's why we 403 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: love law Burns. By the way, we we we have 404 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: to You know, most of us are first generation. You 405 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: were telling me about your background. We're all brand new 406 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: to this stuff. And if we don't share the information 407 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: with each other about what it's like in these different positions, 408 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: I don't know who's gonna tell us because they don't 409 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: really want us to be part of the whole scene. 410 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: Necessarily very good. The point they do not want us 411 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: to be part of this scene. It is structured. This 412 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: scene is structured. So I spent a lot of time 413 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: talking about is in such a way that they can 414 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: decide when they want you right there. It's just it's 415 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: and that's all BS right, because there's we We launched 416 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: this thing called the Board Diversity Action Alliance. Right. This 417 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: was after George Floyd, myself, Gabby Salzburger, Darren Walker from 418 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: the Ford Foundation, a company them engaged with called to 419 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: Neo and the e l C. Why George Floyd gets 420 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: murdered by the police. Uh, that day I had flown 421 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: to London. I got a call from a very very 422 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: good friend who happens to be the CEO of a 423 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: sporting good company from in Europe. You can kind of 424 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: deduced down to what company it is. And okay, he's 425 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: a great guy from Austria. I said, you know, I 426 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: just want to talk to you about this what happened. 427 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: And I think I got this right. But and he 428 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: really great conversation, really really good man. And I said 429 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: to him, but you know, great, didn't call me anytime 430 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: if you need any more. I accept him at the end, 431 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: Why why are you talking to me about this? Why 432 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: didn't you call stupid me? Why didn't you just talk 433 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 1: to one of your directors or And he said, well, 434 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: we don't have any director black directors. It's interesting, he said, Okay, 435 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: I can get I can maybe figure it out. I said, 436 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: but how about the management team. None, who's his biggest 437 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: his biggest customers. They look like us. They're playing basketball, 438 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: they're doing whatever the hell you do, football and all 439 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: of this stuff. They don't do football but soccer, you know, 440 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: global SoC And I said to him, you mean to 441 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: tell me that you run this whole company and you 442 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: see nobody who looks like the clients that you served. 443 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: Next call some other company. I talked to Darren, he 444 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: had gotten calls. Gabby was the CEO. Was the chair 445 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: of Whole Foods, if you know, right when it was 446 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: sold to Amazon. And we got together and we were like, 447 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: this is really strange that all these people who are 448 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: calling us great people at least called right and are curious. 449 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: They reason why they called us is because we're the 450 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: closest thing to a black person they see anytime. Right. 451 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: So we decided that we were gonna start this thing 452 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 1: called the b d A, the Board Diversity Action Alliance. 453 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 1: And basically what it is simple simple, Every company in 454 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: the fortune fire under now we've done it to the 455 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 1: Russell three thousand has to have at least one black director. 456 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: I don't care, it doesn't matter what you do right now. 457 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: We got into a lot of trouble on this because 458 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: we didn't say black or brown, so the Hispanics thought 459 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: we were until we did change it. So now I 460 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: will say black or brown director. And if you have one, 461 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: you should get a second. Right. If you have a second, 462 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: maybe you should get a third. Right Exactly, because there's 463 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: this there's this belief and and this is what came out. 464 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: You should look at some of the newsreels that when 465 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: we launched this thing. It's all over the newspapers. We 466 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: had a question that came from Andrew ros Saukin, who's 467 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: a really cool guy reporter, you know, and he said, well, 468 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: won't some of these people believe that. The question was like, 469 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: the current directors are going to feel kind of bad 470 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: because you're taking their seats. I said, it's interesting their seats. 471 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: It's an interesting phraseology. It belongs. And I said to 472 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: him that means that they own these things, right, and 473 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: then we are now taking something that they own. And 474 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: the theory of the case that we even have is 475 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: that there is that they own this space and now 476 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: so we just have to flip it around and we 477 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: have to say, though, why aren't there eight black directors? Right? 478 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: And and that's what I've always said is that your 479 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: board of directors should reflect your customer base. And so if, yeah, 480 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: if your customers are black, maybe you ought to have 481 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: black directors. I mean, that's what makes sense, right, So 482 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: it's it's I just think that obviously all I did 483 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 1: would just present all we did was just present a problem. Right. 484 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: So they believe it or not, they still have the seats. 485 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: We are still outside trying to get the seats. And okay, 486 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: we'll keep playing that game, right, make sure you get 487 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: the right ones and you have fun and all that stuff. 488 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: Play that game. When you get inside. You absolutely have 489 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: to be an advocate or else there's no you know, 490 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: by the way, you know, I've come a little bit 491 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: around this. You don't have to be an advocate advocate. 492 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: But then don't call yourself a black director, right, just 493 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: call yourself a director, just a regular director, rector you're 494 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: a director. And because not not everyone has to do 495 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: everything all the time, right, So you can say I 496 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: don't want to do that right now, you got it, 497 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: I got it. I don't want to do that in 498 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: this company. Got it. But you can't kind of get 499 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: the the accolades and the distinction and then not actually 500 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: contribute to the solution. And that is something that I've 501 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: kind of had. I've seen there's some women black people 502 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: who stack up a lot of boards and they get 503 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: a lot of credit for that. They haven't necessarily brought 504 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: any other people at the table. I don't begrudge them. 505 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: I'm happy for them, but it's a different thing if 506 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: you're doing what Merline is doing, where you're literally working 507 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 1: to get more black people at to those tables. It's 508 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: always a sensitive thing, right, So you go to a 509 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: company to to serve the company, right, to serve the 510 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: share you're the representative of the shareholders of the company. 511 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: So you're not the representative of black people, but well, 512 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: or women or but there's a big butt. You are 513 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: a black person and a woman, right, so you you 514 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: you bring to that role of representing the shareholder is 515 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: a point of view that is different from the point 516 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: of view presumably, and I from experience, it's true of 517 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: a white man, or of a man if you're a 518 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 1: woman so, or of a of a gay or lesbian 519 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: person if you're straight. Right, So all these things walk 520 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: into the room. It's really important to understand that if 521 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: you shed them when you walk into the room, that 522 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: could have just gotten a regular white guy to do it. 523 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: I mean it didn't really need that. I have a 524 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: lot of them are ready. So so yeah, whatsion can't 525 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: be your job only that's not the thing that you 526 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: came on to do. Now you have fiducial responsibilities and 527 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: you have to meet those first and foremost where you 528 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: shouldn't be at the table. UM okay, I know we 529 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: have some burning questions. I've been hogging all the questions. UM, 530 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: I have for about three or four questions. Please make 531 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: them scinct. Five questions, five questions. We're going right here. 532 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 1: I think there are five hands up, so it's perfect. Yes, 533 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: all right, don't drop the chair now, All right there, 534 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: good afternoon. I'm bringing Cole from Nashville, Tennessee, CEO of 535 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: Career Thrivers. We hope corporations retain diverse talent. So two 536 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: quick questions. One will you sign my book for a 537 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: good friend of mine? Uh? And my second question absolutely, 538 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: thank you. It's phenomenal by the way. UM, and I 539 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: want to say thank you for UM. I'm here because 540 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: I'm just as good as you. In the Harvard Business Review, 541 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: the article interview the you did, and in that interview 542 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: you talked about there was a question about you know, 543 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: obviously there's this resurgence, will call it that a d E. 544 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: And I and what is the solution for seeing more 545 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: black faces inside of corporate corporations? And you your answer 546 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: was numbers, numbers, numbers, and why I would agree with 547 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,719 Speaker 1: you? You You all hit on this, UM. I think it's 548 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: a bit of a generational um thing where perhaps UM, 549 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: more millennial black professionals and black women specifically kind of 550 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: run up against the you know, stay in your place, UM, 551 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 1: make sure you, you know, serve your time before you 552 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: can get to executive level levels of leadership from older, 553 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: more seasoned black women. So what would you say, UM, 554 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: to perhaps mid career women that are in the room 555 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: today who are being met by resistance from women who 556 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: look like them inside of corporations. I love that we're 557 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: keeping the reel in the room. Thank you. I I 558 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: halfway through that question, I was agreeing. I was agreeing 559 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: or disagreeing with you, but agreeing with the with the 560 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: protagonist of you know, do your things serve your time, 561 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: because there is a lot to be said about that, 562 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: and talked about this in the book. It is amazing 563 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: to me the number of people who literally I meet 564 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: with them all the time, and I've been meeting and 565 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: I say what do you want to do? And they 566 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: say I want to be a vice president? And I say, 567 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: of what it doesn't matter? They say, it doesn't matter anything, 568 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: and that thinking is what stay in your place, do 569 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: some things. It's trying to counteract right is trying to 570 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: counteract this. It doesn't matter what the hell. I just 571 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: want to get there. It doesn't matter whether I know 572 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: how the place runs. It doesn't. So, but I do 573 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: believe that there is always that there has always been. 574 00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 1: And some of the staunches, um, what's the next it 575 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: an advocate? Whatever the hey, who are uh? That's that 576 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: looks exactly like you? And then it's and I've I 577 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: run into it a lot more from women to women, 578 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: because it's not When I was coming up there were 579 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: not a lot of black women, but women to women 580 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: it was a big deal. And you know, all you 581 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: do is you push, you keep pushing. It's not I 582 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: mean a lot has to do with the situation that 583 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: you're in the company, that you're in, how powerful the 584 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: person is. One of the things my husband used to 585 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: tell me all the time. He would say to me, Ursula, 586 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: this is not slavery. If you if it ain't working 587 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: for you, go find another place. Right, So these are 588 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: all these things have to be options for you. Generally, 589 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: companies don't hire you and executives don't have you in 590 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: roles if you're subordinate to them. For you to do 591 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: a bad job. They actually need you to be successful. 592 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: So you have to figure out a way to maneuver 593 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: around blockers and haters. Sometimes. My approach, which is not 594 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: everybody's approach, and I would not suggest it for everyone, 595 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: is I am extremely direct. I have been, and it's worked. 596 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: It's worked, but it doesn't work for everyone. And if 597 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: you're not, if that's not how you roll, it's it's 598 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: a damn show, won't work for you, right, So you 599 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: have to find the way that you do it. You 600 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: know who your advocates are. There are lots of different 601 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: ways around, but make sure that you're aware that you 602 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: have the ultimate option to find another job and then 603 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: you don't have to stay anywhere. Thank you. And and 604 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: what I always tell my daughter is there are no 605 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: shortcuts for being for mastering your skill, your trades, and 606 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: if it's finy, if it's if it's writing, whatever, there 607 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: are no shortcuts. And and I'm sorry for that information, 608 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: but it's it's it's the fact. Um. Okay, where's the 609 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: next question? Have it over here? While questions are coming, 610 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: Bring me your book and a pen. What's your name? 611 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: Anybody else has a book? Bring me a book on 612 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: your pen? Because I'll sign them when I'm answering questions. 613 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: See how efficient she is? She efficient organized, This is 614 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: how a leader works. I was just about to say 615 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: direct and deficient. Thank you so much for being here. 616 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: Good afternoon. My name is Tono Boz. I am a 617 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: chief of staff at Harlem Capital Diversity Focus venture capital firm. 618 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: I wanted I wanted to ask, because you've had the 619 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: opportunity to not just be an independent board member, but 620 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: also a CEO and a chairwoman. I want to ask 621 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: for the CEOs in the room, or even the future CEOs, 622 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: what do you think about when putting together your board? 623 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: Because when it comes to diverse founders and CEOs, often 624 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: they may get to a point where they're putting together 625 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: a board and they've never been on a board. So 626 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: I really want to think about what can CEOs do 627 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: to build a board that supports them and helps elevate them. Question, 628 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: it's a great question, um My, very really do I 629 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: I've never had the ability to build a board, you know. 630 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: I've always had the situation where I come into a 631 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: company or come into a board that already exists. So 632 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: and I'm the latest add to a pretty historical, long 633 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: running set of relationships. But I as a CEO when 634 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 1: I and by the way, as a CEO the same. 635 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,760 Speaker 1: So if I'm the CEO, I generally get elevated into 636 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: a role in The people sitting around the table picked me, right, 637 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: So I don't. I didn't. I didn't pick them. It's 638 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: just the way it happens to be. First, is the 639 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: technical responsibility of a of a board, of a director 640 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: is important to understand. It's important to know what fiducier 641 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: you know, what's the what are the duties of care, 642 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 1: what are the duties of loyalty. It's important to know 643 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: kind of really what you do. It's important to know 644 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: the structure of committees and what skills are needed. It's 645 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: important to actually know the facts and data of the 646 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: job and not you know because all the rest of 647 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: it is glory. But you don't get there unless you 648 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: know the fact dati of the of the job. I 649 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: want board members who are um pushers right. One of 650 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: the things about boards, and one of the things about 651 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: CEOs is they need permission to take risks. The toughest 652 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,800 Speaker 1: thing about running a company is that you have choices 653 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,760 Speaker 1: to make and all not all the choices are equal. 654 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: And and you have to figure out a way one 655 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: of the you know every day, which which you know 656 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: the five things, Which is the best to do. Sometimes 657 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: they're small choices, but in your career you'll probably run 658 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: over run into four or five pretty important ones. The 659 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: combination buying this company a CS was I mean, this 660 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,280 Speaker 1: is like, what the hell? What, how did this happen? 661 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 1: Where did this come from? How would you get permission 662 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: to take that kind of risk? So having a board 663 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: that can help you think through these kinds of expansive 664 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: moves are important. So I look at people who feel 665 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: apps that I have people if I people who can 666 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: work with the rest of the team. Like I said, uh, bed, 667 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: director takes energy that's unbelievable and time to manage. And 668 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: it's your responsibility if you're the chair I was chairing CEO, 669 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 1: And it's a whole bunch of crap about being both. 670 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: But if you happen to be both, then you a 671 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: lot of time in managing that. But if this is 672 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: the whole thing about there is a job to be done, 673 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: it's not a it's kind of like if you're the CFO, 674 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,280 Speaker 1: there's a job to be done. If your board directors 675 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: a job to be done, learning that job, the technicals 676 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:32,879 Speaker 1: of that job, and doing that well with the team, 677 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: isn't it is the most important things. And I'll just 678 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: chime into that. I think a lot of new CEOs 679 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: and founders have no idea about how much power and 680 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: how important the board of directors is. In fact, I'm 681 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 1: writing a piece that I'm about to post on Monday 682 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: in honor of this session for that very reason. And 683 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: we do a similar stage black Ops Ventures in Harlem, 684 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 1: Capital of Investing, and so it's usually the first price ound. 685 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: And at that stage you need directors who are going 686 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: to get you your first wall to wall enterprise customers, 687 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: or who can help you build the strategy, have the 688 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: relationships and networks to help you grow your company into 689 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: a billion dollar company. So, um, who you have at 690 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: that table? And also are they thinking about the best 691 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: interests of the company and the people who got the 692 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,479 Speaker 1: company off the ground, or they thinking about the best 693 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: interests of their portfolio? First, UM, I went through a 694 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: tough experience where my board forced me to sell to 695 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: one of UM my board members. UM I wish I 696 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: was still running the company today. So you you really, 697 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: founders so often don't understand how important the directors are. 698 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: So I think that's a great question, and it's really 699 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: funny because I think this is I love this topic 700 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: right because what happens the version at the end, what 701 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: happens with quote unquote these entrepreneurs. Everybody, everybody I run 702 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: too into is an entrepreneur. Everybody today, What do you 703 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:06,399 Speaker 1: do an entrepreneur? Okay, everybody's an entrepreneur, and everybody wants 704 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: to start their own company, which is which is what 705 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: an entrepreneur, I guess does, And they all want them 706 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: to be a billion dollar company, and they all want 707 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: money to fund it. This is where I remember saying 708 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: this to Travis School and I said, I still have 709 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: a lot of time for Travis. I think he's a 710 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: great guy. I said, you lost control when you took 711 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: other people's money. Because make sure you understand it's not 712 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: your money. It's not your company anymore. So if you 713 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: want to treat it like it's your little company, don't 714 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 1: ask other people for investments in it. They can say 715 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,399 Speaker 1: to you, I you own ten percent of it, now 716 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: we own ninety. It's time to sell, right exactly. But 717 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: when you when you met cross that line, it's so 718 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 1: funny how many people say this to me, Well, my 719 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: board wants from like, it's yeah, because you work for 720 00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: them now, right, because what we're trying to say here 721 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: took their money. You can't actually take the money and 722 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: actually act like they are the owners. So it's a 723 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 1: by the way, then go off and start another company, right, 724 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: that's what you do, right, and then and then and 725 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 1: then and then and then and then. So anyway, thank you. 726 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 1: Her last question right here, she has a flight to catch. 727 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: She has a flight to catch them. Short, So fifteen 728 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: years ago, a girl is walking down the street and 729 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: says ursula, and you turn around and looked at me 730 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: as if who is this woman? So fast forward fifteen 731 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: years later. It's amazing to see you again. I am 732 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: a tech founder and CEO. M Tech is a company. 733 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,800 Speaker 1: We are modernizing central banks and emerging markets and in 734 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 1: the US. My question to you, how do I know 735 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 1: going public is for me? Genuinely, you are forced. It's 736 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: it's not a choice that you have that you can make. Generally, 737 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,800 Speaker 1: you are. You get there because you can no longer 738 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: garner the credibility you need. So if you have a 739 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: lot of enterprise customers, people are not gonna sign big 740 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: contracts with you know, ding Dong company as good as 741 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 1: you you seem you are, or you need money so 742 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: you need or access to significant sums of money. So 743 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: very really do you have the luxury of you You 744 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: may have luxury of timing, but you generally don't have 745 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: the luxury for good reasons of like just saying I 746 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: can keep going, I can keep going for a long time, 747 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: but I tell you, for as long as you can 748 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 1: stay private, I would stay private for as long as 749 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,359 Speaker 1: I could stay private. There's a point where it doesn't 750 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: make sense anymore, right where it's just trapped value. Um. 751 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: You can't get the talent that you need because they 752 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: they won't come unless they have some way to get 753 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,799 Speaker 1: some kind of equity. That's reasonable. But generally you you 754 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: put on what what happens is you take you become 755 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: an adult, a regulated adult adult, and that's you just 756 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,399 Speaker 1: have to prepare for it. And if I think it's 757 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: generally good for companies when you have to go through 758 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: the hurdles of meeting Sarbanes Oxley reporting requirements, having some 759 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: kind of a comp committee that has some kind of 760 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: instructions that you have to do earnest. I think that's 761 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,919 Speaker 1: pretty good. But there's a point you'll know when it's 762 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: it's just not for you. But there's a point where 763 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: it's you wait too long, you can't, you can't do it. 764 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: There are very few, very large, not family owned, There 765 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 1: are very very few, very large, enterprise level private companies. 766 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: You just need talent, you need money, you need access, 767 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: you need the credibility of a set of ordered financials 768 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: and running through a whole bunch of loops. Emotionally, I 769 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,839 Speaker 1: would wait as long as possible because it's it's it's 770 00:41:54,840 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: a lot of work. Black Tech Green Money is the 771 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: production of Black of the Afro Tech on the Black 772 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 1: Effect podcast Network and iHeart Media, and it's produced by 773 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: Morgan Dubonne and me Well Lucas, with addition to production 774 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: support by Love Beach and Marissa Lewis. Especially thank you 775 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: to Michael Davis, Jermaine hall of And that's a serranto. 776 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: Learn more about my guests and other techis rother That's 777 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,439 Speaker 1: innovative at afro tech dot com. In the video first 778 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: of other episode, we'll talk the Black Tech Green Money 779 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,760 Speaker 1: on YouTube, So tap in enjoy your Black Tech Green Money. 780 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: He was five Star Radio on iTunes, Go get your money. 781 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:41,919 Speaker 1: He's in love.