Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wikap Daily with Meet
Speaker 1: your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the home bunker, Folks,
Speaker 1: I am taking a little respite, but as always I
Speaker 1: leave you guys with fresh content and interviews. And today
Speaker 1: I am talking to friend of the show and friend
Speaker 1: of mine, Danielle Campomore. And Danielle and I get into
Speaker 1: a really great conversation. You know that usually when she
Speaker 1: comes on, we're talking about abortion, We're talking about reproductive
Speaker 1: rights and access, and she gives us, you know, through
Speaker 1: her columns that she does at today dot com, she
Speaker 1: gives us an insight into moving beyond the statistics and
Speaker 1: the headlines into the lives of women and people with
Speaker 1: uteruses that have been harmed by the Supreme Courts overting
Speaker 1: of Roby Wade. And in today's discussion, we also talk
Speaker 1: about the effects that climate change is going to have
Speaker 1: on reproductive health and care. And something that was alarming
Speaker 1: to me that Danielle will bring our attention to is
Speaker 1: this that when people who are pregnant are in heat
Speaker 1: that exceeds ninety five degrees, which if you look at
Speaker 1: a heat map right now, the United States is pretty
Speaker 1: much a majority of the fucking country that excessive heat
Speaker 1: on pregnant people induces labor, meaning that people will go
Speaker 1: into labor earlier, have babies premature, which could in fact
Speaker 1: then result in a number of issues that those premature
Speaker 1: babies face. And so again, just wanting to connect the
Speaker 1: dots to all of these issues that are spoken about
Speaker 1: in silos like, oh, well, we're talking about climate change,
Speaker 1: we're talking about the heat over there, but we're not
Speaker 1: really talking about how it's going to affect our work
Speaker 1: or food, or our transportation or our livelihood. So this
Speaker 1: is a conversation I think is very illuminating with Danielle.
Speaker 1: So I hope that you guys enjoy it, folks. I
Speaker 1: am very excited to welcome back to WOK at the
Speaker 1: Daily a friend of the show and friend of mine,
Speaker 1: Danielle Campemore, who is a columnist at Today Family for
Speaker 1: today dot Com. And I'm sure you have read her writing,
Speaker 1: you have seen her on MSNBC and in other places
Speaker 1: talking about the weight, the burden, the despair that has
Speaker 1: been placed on families across this country as they are
Speaker 1: dealing with the horrendous ripple effects from the overturning of
Speaker 1: Ruby Wade, And I mean, there are just so many pieces,
Speaker 1: Danielle outside of I feel like basic bodily autonomy and
Speaker 1: reproductive freedom. But you know, what you and I often
Speaker 1: talk about, I feel is something that I want to
Speaker 1: lift up again, which is that a majority of people,
Speaker 1: women and people with uteruses that seek abortions are already parents,
Speaker 1: are already mothers. And so I just want you to
Speaker 1: be able to kind of like, let's bring some light
Speaker 1: to that statistic and reality to push back against the
Speaker 1: rights you know, imaginary figure that women and people with
Speaker 1: uteruses somehow use abortion as birth control.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so another one. Thank you so much for having me,
Speaker 2: for that marvelous introduction, Always so humble to join you,
Speaker 2: and absolutely a thousand percent. Unfortunately, throughout history and discussing
Speaker 2: abortion access and reproductive rights in this country, it has
Speaker 2: been taken out of context. It has been kidnapped by
Speaker 2: political talking points, It has been manipulated by people with
Speaker 2: nefarious reasons, with nefarious deeds in mind, to have this
Speaker 2: be the antithesis of families, the antithesis of parenthood. When
Speaker 2: the majority of people who access abortion care already have
Speaker 2: at least one child at home, they know exactly what
Speaker 2: it's like to carry a pregnancy to term, to give
Speaker 2: birth in whatever way that look like for them, and
Speaker 2: then the trials, tribulations, and of course also the joys
Speaker 2: that come along with raising that child, from postpartum care
Speaker 2: to financial stability, the difficulties in trying to navigate the
Speaker 2: education system in this country, what it's like to parent
Speaker 2: during finance troubling times. They know exactly what that is like.
Speaker 2: So these decisions aren't taken as a rebuke of motherhood
Speaker 2: or of parenthood. It's often in celebration of parenthood, and
Speaker 2: it's often to sustain parenthood. It's to allow them to
Speaker 2: continue to parent the children that they already have. And
Speaker 2: studies have shown that when people don't have access to
Speaker 2: abortion care, it is mothers and it is their children,
Speaker 2: and it is their families who suffer the most. They're
Speaker 2: more likely to live in poverty, their children are more
Speaker 2: likely to meet milestones at a later date than their peers.
Speaker 2: They're more likely to not have access to adequate food
Speaker 2: their mothers and their parents aren't able to access the
Speaker 2: workforce the same capacity as their peers who are able
Speaker 2: to access abortion care, and so it has rippling effects,
Speaker 2: not just for the person whose autonomy wasn't honored in
Speaker 2: a moment of personal planning and family planning, but it
Speaker 2: impacts their children and impacts their whole families, and as
Speaker 2: a result, impacts entire communities who are then forced to
Speaker 2: step up and to help support these parents who could
Speaker 2: have otherwise perhaps done that themselves if given the freedom
Speaker 2: to access abortion care.
Speaker 1: You know, it's just this is why you know, I
Speaker 1: continue to always applaud the work that you do because
Speaker 1: stories are so important, and I think that you know,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you this, like, how do you
Speaker 1: find or have you found your story telling change because
Speaker 1: of the waves, the tidal waves of misinformation that we
Speaker 1: have been dealing with for the last eight years, Like
Speaker 1: has your storytelling on this issue of family, of bodily
Speaker 1: autonomy of abortion, has it had to change or how
Speaker 1: has it changed over the last eight years?
Speaker 2: What an incredible question. And you know it hasn't so
Speaker 2: much changed as there has been more urgency in centering
Speaker 2: those that are most impacted prior to definitely the fall
Speaker 2: of Row, but in the years even leading up to it,
Speaker 2: where we saw a real push to disassemble access to
Speaker 2: abortion in this country piece by piece, whether it be
Speaker 2: gestational bands or just completely superfluous laws put on clinics
Speaker 2: that provide abortion care, the providers who are there, requiring
Speaker 2: hospital privileges for example. There was this push to both
Speaker 2: sides it and to really keep this as a political
Speaker 2: discussion in where we have a nation divided, and that's
Speaker 2: never been the case. But I think mainstream media in
Speaker 2: particular were able to kind of or at least felt
Speaker 2: perhaps okay with letting that go to a certain extent
Speaker 2: until we really saw the ramifications of what happens to
Speaker 2: people who aren't able to access abortion care. The Turnaway
Speaker 2: Study was a huge part of that. For ten years,
Speaker 2: they studied what happens to people, to families when they
Speaker 2: can't access care, and it's devastating. And so I think
Speaker 2: that there was a laxadaisical coverage in it. And then
Speaker 2: as we saw that not changing as quickly as the
Speaker 2: abortion landscape was changing, the urgency in which to center
Speaker 2: people just was born out of that same desperation that
Speaker 2: so many people were feeling. And I have to tell you, Danielle,
Speaker 2: I mean, the story that's really kind of hitting me
Speaker 2: in this moment is just last week I spoke to
Speaker 2: a mother in Texas, she gave birth to a stillborn
Speaker 2: baby girl thirty seven weeks. She was devastating. This was
Speaker 2: months ago and she was still in tears crying to
Speaker 2: me sharing her story. She was denied maternity leave in
Speaker 2: the state of Texas because FMLA does not cover stillborn babies,
Speaker 2: so she was told she had to come back to
Speaker 2: work while she was still reeling from the mental, emotional,
Speaker 2: and certainly physical. You know, just toll it takes to
Speaker 2: give birth to any child, alive or dead, and she
Speaker 2: was in labor for fifteen hours. But also because she
Speaker 2: lives in the state of Texas, there's an anti abortion
Speaker 2: law that that requires all fetal remains to be handled
Speaker 2: by a funeral home, so she didn't get to leave
Speaker 2: the hospital with her daughter's ashes. Instead, she had the
Speaker 2: additional burden of pain for services at a funeral home.
Speaker 2: She didn't receive her daughter's remains for a month, and
Speaker 2: she was told to return to work before then harm
Speaker 2: that these laws cause women family. She was also again
Speaker 2: caring for a toddler at this time. It is profound
Speaker 2: and whether it's intended or not, whether she was the
Speaker 2: target audience of this anti abortion law because she was
Speaker 2: a mom who was very excited about the prospect of
Speaker 2: having a daughter. She was harm nonetheless, and so that
Speaker 2: is what's really kind of changed for me is this urgency.
Speaker 2: This not to romanticize my calling, but this profound sense
Speaker 2: of it. It's a need, it's it's a duty, an obligation,
Speaker 2: and an honor, and one that without these stories, again,
Speaker 2: the only noise we hear is the political talking points
Speaker 2: of those who are not in acted by these laws.
Speaker 2: We have to elevate the people ahead of the politician
Speaker 2: in order for people to truly understand what's going on
Speaker 2: across the country.
Speaker 1: I have no words for that story.
Speaker 3: When I saw you share it, I just was stunned
Speaker 3: at where I am right now.
Speaker 1: Because what the Republican Party is doing, what they are
Speaker 1: waging is psychological warfare. This is terrorism. And I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, we need to stop using euphemisms, We need
Speaker 1: to stop using their talking points by saying, oh, while
Speaker 1: it's the opposition that is about you know, that is
Speaker 1: anti abortion. No, they're not anti abortion. They are pro
Speaker 1: terrorism and trauma. Because to put a person through what
Speaker 1: that woman was put through, I cannot imagine already the
Speaker 1: emotional toll, and that is just too light of a word.
Speaker 1: To carry a baby that you know is not viable
Speaker 1: inside of your body, to labor for fifteen hours, and
Speaker 1: to then not even leave the hospital with the ashes
Speaker 1: of that baby so that you can begin your mourning process,
Speaker 1: and not even being given the fucking time to begin
Speaker 1: your mourning process before you have to go back to
Speaker 1: work to grind for capitalism. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: where to begin, and I just but I want to
Speaker 1: say this real quick before you continue, because for those
Speaker 1: people that are thinking to themselves, that are listening to
Speaker 1: this and saying, well, this is why people need to
Speaker 1: lead the state, know that when you say these things,
Speaker 1: and I have said them myself and have begun to
Speaker 1: roll back those thoughts because it comes from a place
Speaker 1: of privilege. It comes from a place of privilege to
Speaker 1: say that people just need to lead their state as
Speaker 1: if it is that fucking easy to do, and as
Speaker 1: if everybody that is living inside of that state is
Speaker 1: somehow aligned with the monstrous administration of Greg Abbott. Because
Speaker 1: that is also false. But Denielle, please continue.
Speaker 2: Well, no, it's just I mean, I'm not in my
Speaker 2: head because to your point, you know, it's so easy
Speaker 2: to get past the political talking points if you just
Speaker 2: listen to the people themselves. And so one of the
Speaker 2: things about my job that I actually really love is
Speaker 2: that has humbled me in silencing myself and what I
Speaker 2: think people need to hear, because really it's the people
Speaker 2: who've been impacted or saying it. They're saying it, and
Speaker 2: if we just listened, we wouldn't need to search for
Speaker 2: those euphemisms. As you so eloquently stated, they're saying it themselves.
Speaker 2: I mean, this mother said, I have PTSD. I had
Speaker 2: to try and find, you know, a therapist. But I
Speaker 2: was also having a piece together, all my sick leave,
Speaker 2: all my vacation leave, I had to try to get
Speaker 2: on disability. So she has a toddler. She goes. Now
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get myself back to neutral, where I
Speaker 2: can sleep, where I'm not seeing images of my daughter.
Speaker 2: And I also have to pray my my son doesn't
Speaker 2: get sick for the rest of the year because I
Speaker 2: don't have any more paid time off and I have
Speaker 2: to pay my bills. If you just listen to them,
Speaker 2: the euphemism's pale in comparison to what the real people
Speaker 2: who are experiencing these the ramifications of these laws are
Speaker 2: actually dealing with on a day to day basis. And
Speaker 2: to your point, then, to then tell this mother who's
Speaker 2: trying to keep her family together and afloat while she's
Speaker 2: navigating the trauma of a loss, by the way, just
Speaker 2: pick up and leave is extremely not only just woefully
Speaker 2: ignorant of the realities of all families really right now,
Speaker 2: but especially those who are trying to navigate these cross
Speaker 2: these crossings, these multiple levels of harm being caused in
Speaker 2: all areas of their lives. And that's one of the
Speaker 2: things that you've you've talked about so frequently is that
Speaker 2: it's not like these these issues are are siphoned off
Speaker 2: to this group is just being harmed by this thing,
Speaker 2: and this group group is just being harmed by this thing.
Speaker 2: It's no this group that's being harmed by a lack
Speaker 2: of mandatory paid family leave is also being harmed by
Speaker 2: a lack of access to to abortion care. That's also
Speaker 2: being harmed by other anti abortion laws that make it
Speaker 2: more difficult for people to move forward and grieve in
Speaker 2: whatever way they see fit. These just a it's it's compounded,
Speaker 2: and so of course people aren't going to leave their homes.
Speaker 2: They're fighting to keep their homes. And that's the reality.
Speaker 1: You know, And and I think here because you did,
Speaker 1: you know, just such a great job of connecting the dots.
Speaker 1: The problem Dniel too, that I find that Democrats fall
Speaker 1: into on all of these issues is that they pick
Speaker 1: them apart as siloed issues. Right when, instead of us
Speaker 1: talking about reproductive care and abortion and you know, paid
Speaker 1: maternal leave and all of these things as these siloed issues.
Speaker 1: Just say, very clearly, if I'm a Democrat running for
Speaker 1: office and I don't care where I'm running for office,
Speaker 1: Republicans don't care about family, and here are the bulleted
Speaker 1: reasons as to why. Right So, if they want you
Speaker 1: to have a child, then where are all of their
Speaker 1: votes on healthcare? Where are all of their votes on
Speaker 1: maternal leave? Where are all of their votes on ourn
Speaker 1: child tax credits? Where are all their votes on public education? Right? Like,
Speaker 1: where are all of their votes on how you would
Speaker 1: protect and grow this family that they are forcing people
Speaker 1: to have? Because when you look at all of those
Speaker 1: pieces and then you have these people talking now to
Speaker 1: the other side of their fucking mouths, telling you like,
Speaker 1: oh no, where about detecting family and you're about killing babies,
Speaker 1: will tell me how, because what Democrats don't do is
Speaker 1: put this vile, anti family political party on the defense
Speaker 1: and make them explain all of the ways in which
Speaker 1: they care about quote unquote families.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, to that point again, I've
Speaker 2: heard this from people who I've interviewed, especially in the
Speaker 2: year since Rob Wade was overturned. I've spoken to people
Speaker 2: who are Democrats. I've spoken to people who are Republicans.
Speaker 2: I've spoken to moms who you know, voted for Trump
Speaker 2: and then they found themselves needing abortion care, and then
Speaker 2: they found themselves needing the very services that were taken
Speaker 2: away from them. And while it's very easy to say, well,
Speaker 2: you know, reap what she sewed, what I really hear
Speaker 2: beyond all of that is both no matter which political
Speaker 2: party anyone is falling on, what they really want is
Speaker 2: to stop the talking points that just become so regurgitated
Speaker 2: to the point that the words are meaningless and they're
Speaker 2: in one ear and not the other. And what they
Speaker 2: want to hear is what are you really just going
Speaker 2: to do for my family? Because you know, again, I
Speaker 2: spoke to a mom in Arkansas, and she said, you know,
Speaker 2: I used to think that those words meant something. Now
Speaker 2: I realize that they don't. And there isn't really anybody
Speaker 2: who's who's wanting to look at all the problems that
Speaker 2: we're facing holistically and talk to us as the complicated
Speaker 2: people that we are. And I think, regardless of political leanings,
Speaker 2: oftentimes when a midterm comes around, or definitely as we
Speaker 2: get to a presidential election, the talking points become dumber
Speaker 2: and dumber and dumber, and people, look, anyone, anyone in
Speaker 2: the US right now are at any one time dealing
Speaker 2: with seventeen different issues and problems, right from finances to healthcare,
Speaker 2: to mental health care, to their children, to their spouse,
Speaker 2: to their ability to access care, to work life, back
Speaker 2: to all of these things. And they want people to
Speaker 2: talk to them as if they're you know, as if
Speaker 2: that is their reality, because it is, and that never
Speaker 2: happens again. It's all siloed and here's a dumbed down
Speaker 2: version of the issue that you're dealing with, and people
Speaker 2: that I speak to or saying, no, that's not my reality.
Speaker 2: My reality is I'm having to try to pay for
Speaker 2: childcare that's out of my reach. I can't take time
Speaker 2: off work because I have a baby. If I'm forced
Speaker 2: to have a baby in a state that doesn't provide
Speaker 2: any kind of funding for someone who's in poverty. Who
Speaker 2: tells me my Medicaid can't cover services that I need.
Speaker 2: Who's trying to take away my ability to pay for
Speaker 2: baby food formula, anything with food stamps. I'm dealing with
Speaker 2: a million issues and they're all intersecting. Please tell me
Speaker 2: how you're going to deal with all these issues that
Speaker 2: are intersecting to And unfortunately, again, the closer we get
Speaker 2: to that voting day, it doesn't seem like those talking
Speaker 2: points are as complicated. And honor the complication of people's lives, as.
Speaker 1: I guess, Yes, that is it, Danielle. Honor the complication
Speaker 1: of people's lives. Honor the layeredness of people's lives, right,
Speaker 1: And that's how you speak to the issues, all of
Speaker 1: them that are affecting them from A to Z and
Speaker 1: back again. And I think to allow, frankly, the right
Speaker 1: to create these caricatures when we have real life stories,
Speaker 1: right that are not one in a million. They are
Speaker 1: becoming the norm, right when we lift up those stories
Speaker 1: and put spotlights where they belong right. We force them
Speaker 1: right to look into the light and not be able
Speaker 1: to hide their schemes and their lies in darkness. Before
Speaker 1: I let you go, I do again because I am
Speaker 1: very much about trying to connect these dots. You know
Speaker 1: you are a mother of two small boys. I am
Speaker 1: concerned about the environment and the world and the planet
Speaker 1: that we are leaving for your boys and my nieces
Speaker 1: and nephews, and so I want you to speak to
Speaker 1: how you understand the issue of climate change as also
Speaker 1: a family issue.
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean one hundred percent, And I can speak
Speaker 2: to it in two ways. One just personally. Yes, my
Speaker 2: boys are young there, four and eight, like so many
Speaker 2: families across the country, especially since COVID nineteen and the
Speaker 2: ongoing issues surrounding COVID nineteen. My youngest, who's four, has
Speaker 2: been in the ICU twice for RSV, So we take
Speaker 2: his breathing issues and his health overall, including of course
Speaker 2: the health of my year old, extremely seriously. So on
Speaker 2: top of these record setting heat waves across the country
Speaker 2: that's kept my sons inside just because it's simply too
Speaker 2: hot for them to go outside. On days when we
Speaker 2: could send them outside, I kept them indoors because they
Speaker 2: can't breathe the air. We have wild fires going on
Speaker 2: in Canada, and even for sensitive groups you know that
Speaker 2: include my young youngest child, they can't go out outside.
Speaker 2: So now I'm working from home trying to keep them
Speaker 2: safe indoors. I can't pay for childcare during the summer.
Speaker 2: It costs a ridiculous amount of money. And so just
Speaker 2: from that kind of standpoint, I see the ways in
Speaker 2: which climate change has an adverse effect on not only
Speaker 2: the mental health of my children. They need to be
Speaker 2: going outside, they should be able to go outside and
Speaker 2: enjoy their time, but their mother's mental health as well.
Speaker 2: Because I can tell you that it's been a difficult
Speaker 2: couple of months. But that's I'm very privileged and I'm
Speaker 2: very very lucky I have the ability to keep my
Speaker 2: son safe. What about the individuals who don't have access
Speaker 2: to air conditioning, the individuals who are living in states
Speaker 2: with rolling blackouts, who can't turn on their air conditioning,
Speaker 2: who can't keep the food in their home cold. I mean,
Speaker 2: we've seen not only studies show that climate change is
Speaker 2: a big concern for people who were once considering families
Speaker 2: and now they don't want to start a family, not
Speaker 2: to mention that in plenty of states, those same people
Speaker 2: don't want to potentially get pregnant, suffer a pregnancy complication,
Speaker 2: and be denied care that could take them away from
Speaker 2: a potential future child. But then we're also seeing the
Speaker 2: ways that climate events, particularly catastrophic ones hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, earthquakes,
Speaker 2: can actually cause health issues in pregnancy. The adverse health
Speaker 2: when it comes to anemia, preclampsia, low birthrate, preterm birth.
Speaker 2: They can cause miscarriages even and this isn't anything new,
Speaker 2: by the way. In twenty thirteen, there was a multinational
Speaker 2: study that showed that air pollution increases the risks of
Speaker 2: a low birth rate. And for anyone who doesn't know,
Speaker 2: if a child is born with a low birth rate,
Speaker 2: they have a higher risk of premature death, heart problems,
Speaker 2: they get breathing issues for the rest of their lives.
Speaker 2: It's estimated that in temperatures that go above ninety degrees
Speaker 2: very quickly, they responsible for twenty five thus early births
Speaker 2: in this country each year. Wow, that's twenty five thousand
Speaker 2: premature births each year as a result of increased heat
Speaker 2: ninety degrees and above. There are some states in this country.
Speaker 2: You have been at one eight one point fifteen for weeks.
Speaker 2: So again, those are the same states, unfortunately that also
Speaker 2: limit access to abortion care, that are keeping doctors from
Speaker 2: caring for their patients that are having complications because they're
Speaker 2: afraid they're going to go to jail. So climate change
Speaker 2: is impacting families at the same time that reproductive healthcare,
Speaker 2: that reproductive justice, inability to access unnecessary care is harming families.
Speaker 2: These are, without a doubt linked, inexplicably linked, because we
Speaker 2: never actually talk about it enough, and unfortunately, unless we
Speaker 2: do something, then yeah, my son's, your nieces, nephews are
Speaker 2: going to have an even larger problem than the one
Speaker 2: we're facing right now.
Speaker 1: Oh, Danielle, I tell you that I could always speak
Speaker 1: to you for hours. I feel like every time I
Speaker 1: leave a conversation with you, I leave more just intent
Speaker 1: on bringing more light to these stories, just more intent
Speaker 1: on the fight against patriarchy and misogyny, and you know,
Speaker 1: also just more hopeful because of people like you and
Speaker 1: the work that you do. I can't thank you enough
Speaker 1: for continuing to do the work that you do to
Speaker 1: bring these stories to light. I appreciate you so very much.
Speaker 2: Oh my dear friend, Well, I appreciate you and the
Speaker 2: same to you, and I gotta say no, it's easy
Speaker 2: to get bogged down, but listening to people share their
Speaker 2: stories there's power in that too. Even in the worst story,
Speaker 2: that people get up and say, you know, with my
Speaker 2: full whole chest, I'm going to tell this story. Yeah,
Speaker 2: is incredible to me. So thank you for that privilege
Speaker 2: of being able to extend their voices even even further.
Speaker 2: It's always an honor and you just keep doing the
Speaker 2: work and I'll be here you too.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on woke
Speaker 1: app as always power to the people and to all
Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.