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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am

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Speaker 1: Eastern on Apple Corplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's another worry for Wall Street the safe

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Speaker 2: haven status of US treasures, and add to that, even

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Speaker 2: the US dollar could be in question. Let's discuss now

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Speaker 2: with the Bloomberg Intelligence Chief antest rates strategist, Ira Jersey.

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Speaker 2: He's joining us from our offices in Princeton, New Jersey. Hi, Ira,

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Speaker 2: is this really a thing?

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Speaker 3: So first, I'm actually working from home today. Someone has

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Speaker 3: to walk the dog while my kids are on spring

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Speaker 3: break because I had to cancel my spring break thanks

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Speaker 3: to everything that's going on.

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Speaker 2: I have a feeling you're to be working this weekend.

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Speaker 3: I have no doubt the Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think it is a big worry. Right.

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Speaker 3: So, if if we're not exporting as many dollars because

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Speaker 3: of you know, trade imbalances getting more in line, then

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Speaker 3: the incentive for other, for overseas investors to buy US

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Speaker 3: treasuries goes down somewhat. And I think that is, at

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Speaker 3: least the market action seems like that may be what's

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Speaker 3: happening now. Unfortunately, we won't get the data to confirm

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Speaker 3: that for like six or eight weeks, and so a

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Speaker 3: lot of this is speculative. But the market action does

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Speaker 3: suggest that that foreign investors, particularly foreign private investors, are

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Speaker 3: lightening up on their US dollar risk. And I think

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Speaker 3: also US domestic investors are probably thinking that those foreign

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Speaker 3: investors will be taking those actions, so therefore they also

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Speaker 3: lighten up in those same parts of the yield curve.

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Speaker 3: So I think this is pretty rational, you know, and

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Speaker 3: these moves are big, John, But I have to say

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Speaker 3: something I've been looking at this morning is comparing this

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Speaker 3: to March of twenty twenty two and May of twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 3: And what you see is this is on the magnitude

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Speaker 3: of those periods of time, and interestingly, interest rates are

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Speaker 3: higher now, so actually in dollar price terms, bond prices

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Speaker 3: are going down slower than they were back in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two and twenty thirteen. So again it's a huge move,

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Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, And it's something that you need

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Speaker 3: to pay attention to and have to figure out when

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Speaker 3: it's going to end. But it's not like it's not

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Speaker 3: insane in a historical context.

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Speaker 4: So foreign investors selling out of treasuries, how I guess

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Speaker 4: how big of a deal is that? How much do

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Speaker 4: treasury holders need to be concerned about?

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Speaker 2: And how many you know, how much do the foreign

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Speaker 2: investors have in their holdings right in US treasuries?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so in aggregate, about one third of the treasury

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Speaker 3: market is held outside of the United States. Now, some

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Speaker 3: of that's in hedge funds and the like. So actually

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Speaker 3: the beneficial owners of those hedge funds might be Americans, right,

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Speaker 3: but you still have a signific and portion that's held

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Speaker 3: by foreign central banks, by insurance companies, pension funds, and

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Speaker 3: sovereign wealth funds that that that these countries are going

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Speaker 3: to make decisions and the companies are going to make

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Speaker 3: decisions that that that hold these securities as to what

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Speaker 3: they're going to do in going forward. Now, I suspect

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Speaker 3: a lot of the the insurance companies and pensions that

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Speaker 3: might hold US treasury securities, their first step is not

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Speaker 3: going to be to actually go out and outright sell.

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Speaker 3: But if they're not buyers, then someone else has to

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Speaker 3: become the incremental buyer and to become the incremental buyer.

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Speaker 3: That means that the securities involved have to cheap and

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Speaker 3: probably the lower in a new buyer base. So that

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Speaker 3: means you have higher yields, lower dollar prices, and more

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Speaker 3: volatility in the market. And I suspect that all of

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Speaker 3: this is happening in very short order. You know, meanwhile,

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Speaker 3: this is happening in a time when when when securities dealers,

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Speaker 3: you know, the large primary dealers are very full of securities.

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Speaker 3: In fact, just two weeks ago they had the most

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Speaker 3: held the most treasury securities they've ever held in their history.

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Speaker 3: So another reason for some of this volatility, I think

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Speaker 3: is just that they're full, right, they just don't want

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Speaker 3: to take more treasury risk without cheapening up the market

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Speaker 3: because they already own a lot of them.

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Speaker 2: Well, what did the auctions this wee? We had thirties

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Speaker 2: yesterday and what was a two years? Threes, tens and threes? Okay,

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Speaker 2: what did the take up there tell you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was those were among the more interesting

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Speaker 3: auctions that we've had. You know, auctions are really boring

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Speaker 3: until they're not, and you know, this week certainly did

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Speaker 3: not have any boring auctions. So so Tuesday, we had

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Speaker 3: a three year auction and that that was pretty pretty abysmal.

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Speaker 3: Quite frankly, it was one of the worst three year

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Speaker 3: auctions that we've had, you know, since twenty twenty and

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Speaker 3: the so I think what happened after that, and one

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Speaker 3: of the reasons you saw the markets very volatile thereafter

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Speaker 3: was there were dealers and other investors who tried to

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Speaker 3: make room so basically manage your portfolio, so they were

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Speaker 3: able to bid for the longer duration, higher risk assets

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Speaker 3: later in the week. And so the tenure on Wednesday

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Speaker 3: and the and the thirty year yesterday actually went really well.

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Speaker 3: We have a grading system that we use, you know,

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Speaker 3: DTA A plus, and yesterday's while the three year got

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Speaker 3: a D, the ten year got an A plus and

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Speaker 3: the thirty year got an A, so, you know, really

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Speaker 3: solid auctions. They had very good bitterer metrics, there were

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Speaker 3: a lot of people involved, but also didn't stick. And

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Speaker 3: I think that that's another a worrying sign in terms

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Speaker 3: of where the market might head to and in terms

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Speaker 3: of yields, yields might continue to move higher because even

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Speaker 3: though you had strong auctions, a lot of times strong

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Speaker 3: auctions turn the market and that that turn in the

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Speaker 3: market to lower yields did not stick by any stretch

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Speaker 3: of the imagination, and you're seeing the follow on from

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Speaker 3: that today.

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Speaker 2: That's the smart money, Ira Jersey, Bloomberg Intelligence, see if

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Speaker 2: the US interest rates strategist always a pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Ira, you're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch US

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Speaker 1: Live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and

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Speaker 1: Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, or watch US live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: So C plus G plus. I. You know that formula.

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Speaker 2: It adds up to growth in the United States or

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Speaker 2: lack of growth. Gdp C is the consumer Joe Ann

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Speaker 2: Shou the director of the University of Michigan surveys of consumers.

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Speaker 2: Joe and the latest data at the top of the hour,

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Speaker 2: how are the consumers feeling?

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Speaker 5: They are not feeling great about the outlook of the economy.

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Speaker 5: We've had multiple consecutive months now of sentiment and particularly

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Speaker 5: expectations really taking a nosedive. Consumers are seeing weaknesses on

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Speaker 5: many different dimensions of the economy, business conditions, personal finances,

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Speaker 5: their own incomes, inflation, labor markets. This is something that

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Speaker 5: should be very concerning.

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Speaker 4: Tell us a little bit more about just how backward

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Speaker 4: looking is this data, how much is it incorporating the

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Speaker 4: recent tariff I guess flip flopping that we've been seeing

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Speaker 4: this week.

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Speaker 5: So we started collecting data about two and a half

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Speaker 5: weeks ago for this release and we closed on Tuesday.

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Speaker 5: So it captures the April second announcement of the reciprocal tariffs,

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Speaker 5: but does not include the reversal, the partial reversal that

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Speaker 5: happened on Wednesday of this week. It's pretty clear that

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Speaker 5: every single time over the last few months we've seen

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Speaker 5: a tariff announcement or a change in tariff policy, escalation

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Speaker 5: of tariff's, consumer sentiment has taken a dip, and inflation

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Speaker 5: expectations have gone up, but we have actually haven't seen

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Speaker 5: much relief come when those tariff announcements.

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Speaker 2: Are reversed or tariffs or are reversed.

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Speaker 5: Or taken back. So it's not really clear how much

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Speaker 5: relief consumers are actually going to feel from Wednesday's announcement,

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Speaker 5: particularly given that tariffs with China remains sky high.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the one year inflation expected these are ipoppers six

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Speaker 2: point seven percent. That's the one year, the longer term.

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Speaker 2: The five tier to ten year inflation expectation four point

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Speaker 2: four percent. That's about the prior reading it, just a

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Speaker 2: tenth of a percent higher than what the survey was for.

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Speaker 2: Are these sort of self fulfilling prophecies?

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Speaker 5: They can be, so when people expect higher inflation in

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Speaker 5: the future, they may believe that you should buy big

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Speaker 5: things now in order to avoid those price increases in

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Speaker 5: the future. And indeed we're seeing a lot of news

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Speaker 5: stories about people stockpiling, but we see this more broadly

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Speaker 5: than that. In November, as soon as the election finished,

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Speaker 5: a lot of people were expecting Trump to go ahead

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Speaker 5: and implement more aggressive tariff policy when inaugurated, and so

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Speaker 5: many consumers were telling us on the interviews back in

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Speaker 5: November and December, now is the right time to buy

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Speaker 5: a car, to buy durable goods, because you're going to

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Speaker 5: get hit by high prices in the future. And indeed

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Speaker 5: we saw robust sales figures in Q four for exactly

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Speaker 5: that reason. One of the things that helps prevent things

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Speaker 5: from becoming a self fulfilling prophecy on the inflation front

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Speaker 5: is that consumers feel so weak on other elements of

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Speaker 5: the economy. Their income expectations are down, and they're worried

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Speaker 5: they're going to lose their jobs, and so they might

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Speaker 5: not rewilling to front load their purchases that they might

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Speaker 5: otherwise might otherwise have done, And they don't really have

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Speaker 5: the support for the robust consumer spending that we saw

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Speaker 5: in the years following the pandemic.

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Speaker 2: In like thirty seconds, what's the history of consumer spending

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Speaker 2: following numbers like this? Do they really do pull back?

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Speaker 5: Typically they pull back, and it's a high probability this time,

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Speaker 5: particularly because higher income consumers are feeling just as dour

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Speaker 5: as their lower income counterparts, and higher and come consumers

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Speaker 5: generate so much of consumer spending.

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Speaker 2: Right, Joey and always a pleasure appreciated, Join and show

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Speaker 2: the director of the University of Michigan surveys of consumers

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Speaker 2: again the Universe City of Michigan Sentiment Index fifty point eight.

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Speaker 2: The survey expectation was for fifty three point eight. Those

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Speaker 2: are not good numbers.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: I'm John Tucker along with Emily GRIFFEO. We were in

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Speaker 2: for Paul and Alex Bloomberg Intelligence today. You know, volatility

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Speaker 2: drives everybody else crazy, drives me crazy, but it's actually

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Speaker 2: good for banks. Alison Williams this our banking analysts from

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Speaker 2: BI Allison just how did the banks do based on

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Speaker 2: market volatility and trading?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 7: So trading really knocking it out of the park at

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Speaker 7: JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley really setting up the bar

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Speaker 7: for Goldman on Monday. But we saw you know, gains

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Speaker 7: of almost by half equities training, so that's benefiting from

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Speaker 7: the volatility. I would say, you know, fees fit was

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Speaker 7: a little bit like in line to weaker. You know,

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Speaker 7: fees were fine, but we know that there's risk ahead there.

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Speaker 6: We actually saw some.

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Speaker 2: We say fixed You got to explain it to people

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Speaker 2: who think, like you know, a German Shepherd fixed income currency.

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Speaker 7: So trading rates, trading credit, currency and commodities.

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Speaker 2: All right, So I want to go to loan loss

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Speaker 2: provisions for some of the major banks because that's kind

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Speaker 2: of an indication what they think about what's ahead for

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Speaker 2: the economy and the consumer.

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Speaker 7: It is and that was really the key thing that

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Speaker 7: we were looking for this quarter, and what you saw

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Speaker 7: was JP Morgan about a billion dollars of loss reserve building,

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Speaker 7: and that's really looking at the economic uncertainty ahead. So

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Speaker 7: keep in mind, we have not seen any we're not

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Speaker 7: really seeing signs of weakness yet. In fact, if anything,

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Speaker 7: well a little bit of front loading on the consumer

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Speaker 7: or retail. Analysts ANDBI have been talking about that. But

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Speaker 7: JP Morgan, you know, being conservative and guess what those

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Speaker 7: trading gains we just talked about. That's how they can

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Speaker 7: afford to be conservative because their trading upside was about

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Speaker 7: a half a billion. They also had a gain related

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Speaker 7: to First Republic, remember that acquisition from a.

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Speaker 6: Couple of years ago.

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Speaker 7: So basically after some conversations with the government, they recognize

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Speaker 7: the gain there. So those two items really helping them

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Speaker 7: to fund that conservative.

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Speaker 6: Look. By contrast, Wells Fargo did not.

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Speaker 7: We did not see the same trend, and you see

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Speaker 7: the stocks sort of reacting to these today because what

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Speaker 7: this means is that JP Morgan has less earnings risk

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Speaker 7: if things do deteriorate, where as well as Fargo is

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Speaker 7: not as well prepared with the provision building.

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Speaker 2: Emily, as you pointed out, this doesn't even capture the

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Speaker 2: volatility that we just saw recently.

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Speaker 4: Right, this week is the historic week. We had a

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Speaker 4: fifth day in a row marking last week of yesterday

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Speaker 4: of an inter day range of more than six percent

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Speaker 4: for the S and P five hundred. We haven't seen

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Speaker 4: a streak like that since COVID and the global financial crisis.

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Speaker 4: What did we get though, from.

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Speaker 6: Just the outlook?

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Speaker 4: I mean, Jamie Diamond has been pretty vocal about his

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Speaker 4: economic outlook. Did we get any guidance from these banks

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Speaker 4: about what to expect? So?

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Speaker 7: I think it's prepare for the unexpected, right, And so

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Speaker 7: I think that's what you know. Jamie Diamond is known

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Speaker 7: for giving his views, but he's also known for saying, look,

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Speaker 7: this is how we manage the bank.

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Speaker 6: We prepare for the worst.

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Speaker 7: And so I think that that's what we saw today

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Speaker 7: was there were a few items that helped them to

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Speaker 7: set aside this money depending on what happens. And you know,

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Speaker 7: as you pointed out, we saw lots of we've seen

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Speaker 7: lots of trading, We've seen lots of volatility. Expectations are

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Speaker 7: that we're going to continue to see or could continue

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Speaker 7: to see a benefit at least based on what we've

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Speaker 7: seen in April US cash equities volumes, I mean really

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Speaker 7: setting new records. And the question is that when it

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Speaker 7: comes to the end of the quarter in June, you know,

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Speaker 7: will we be closer to some certainty around tariffs. If so,

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Speaker 7: we can get those reserves back so they can release

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Speaker 7: those back into earnings.

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Speaker 2: Am I right when I say Wells Fargo is more

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Speaker 2: sort of consumerly related?

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Speaker 6: So Wells Fargo does not have that.

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Speaker 7: You know, they have a trading business which also participated,

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Speaker 7: but certainly not to the size of JP Morgan, who is,

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Speaker 7: you know, one of the leaders in equities trading, the

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Speaker 7: leader in FIIC trating by revenue. On the Wells Fargo

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Speaker 7: side of things, we actually did see that interesting coome

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Speaker 7: coming in a little softer. We also saw non interesting

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Speaker 7: come coming in a little softer and some sighting of

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Speaker 7: weaker loan demand, and so I think those are also

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Speaker 7: contributing to some weakness and the shares.

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Speaker 2: Okay, because at the top of the hour, we took

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Speaker 2: to the University of Michigan sentiments survey, and that looks

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Speaker 2: like consumers that just might be raining, and that's the

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Speaker 2: signal there, So what is that going to mean going

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Speaker 2: forward for Wells Fargo.

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Speaker 7: So, for Wells Fargo and for JP Morgan, certainly not

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Speaker 7: good right to the extent that sentiment stops consumers from

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Speaker 7: making purchases, going on those trips, et cetera. And as

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Speaker 7: I said, you know and JP Morgan I think alluded

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Speaker 7: to this, there has been a little frontload of spending.

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Speaker 7: All that being said, the credit card business, which is

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Speaker 7: the highest loss ratio business and can be sort of

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Speaker 7: the most susceptible to discretionary spending, is a much bigger

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Speaker 7: business for JP Morgan.

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Speaker 6: On the commercial side of.

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Speaker 7: Things, where I think you have seen I think already

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Speaker 7: some stagger and activity in terms of businesses like you know,

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Speaker 7: not executing on things.

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Speaker 6: They would have.

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Speaker 7: Wells Fargo has a little bit more exposure to those

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Speaker 7: sort of traditional businesses as a mix of their business,

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Speaker 7: just because they are more focused on the bread and

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Speaker 7: butter lending.

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Speaker 4: What about deal making because coming into the year, a

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Speaker 4: lot of sources I spoke to you said this is

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Speaker 4: going to be a big year for investment banking because

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Speaker 4: Trump will be supportive of that environment. What did we

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Speaker 4: see in these ere.

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Speaker 6: Yes, So a couple of things there.

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Speaker 7: To your point, coming into the year, I think everyone

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Speaker 7: was excited. We've been talking about this investment banking feever, recovery.

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Speaker 7: Bankers have been looking forward to that. M and A

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Speaker 7: also benefiting from some of the lesser you know, a

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Speaker 7: lighter regulatory environment as you spoke of, but we really

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Speaker 7: have not seen the benefit of that, and that is,

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Speaker 7: you know, largely due to CEO sentiment and having a

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Speaker 7: view towards the future really does impact M and A right,

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Speaker 7: because if you think the value of your business could

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Speaker 7: significantly change in the next few months, or if you

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Speaker 7: think something a business that you want to purchase could

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Speaker 7: be a significantly different in value, chances are you're probably

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Speaker 7: going to pause.

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Speaker 6: And that's what we've seen on the M and A front.

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Speaker 7: Equities IPOs also we saw that started strong in January,

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Speaker 7: completely stalled out. We see all these deals on hold

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Speaker 7: debt fees actually the one area where you're continuing to

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Speaker 7: see some strength, but again the volatility early this quarter

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Speaker 7: is likely to hamper all of that revenue.

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Speaker 2: I get like forty five seconds left so Monday, what's up?

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Speaker 6: So Monday? And this more about bragging rights than anything.

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Speaker 7: We'll be looking to see if Goldman can increase their

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Speaker 7: trading revenue by at least twenty five percent to keep

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Speaker 7: them starting at the top of the trio. But I

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Speaker 7: would fully expect that they are going to participate in

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Speaker 7: the equity derivatives trading ran Brokeridge that really drove those

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Speaker 7: forty to five to fifty percent gains at JP Morgan

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Speaker 7: and Morgan Stanley. Well, so we expect better trading, fix trading,

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Speaker 7: maybe in line fees probably a bit weaker. They are

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Speaker 7: typically the leader in M and A, so that is

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Speaker 7: going to war them a little bit.

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Speaker 6: What happened on the.

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Speaker 7: Compensation front, we did see Morgan Stanley with Severn charges

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Speaker 7: that sort of confirmed some of the things we saw

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Speaker 7: from Bloomberg News that they were letting bankers go because.

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Speaker 6: We're not seeing that fee recovery, as you noted.

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Speaker 2: All right, Alison, thanks a lot.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Cockley and Android

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Speaker 2: Mirror Mirror on the wall. Who's the biggest asset manager

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Speaker 2: of them?

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Speaker 4: All, and the stock is in the green.

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Speaker 2: Black Rock Neil Sides Bloomberg Intelligence Financials and Analys follows Blackrock.

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Speaker 2: The metric we care about is it the assets under management.

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Speaker 8: It is the assets under management. Almost more importantly now,

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Speaker 8: the bigger that Blackrock gets is the organic growth, and

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Speaker 8: that's sort of measuring the net new assets that are

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Speaker 8: coming into Blackrocks funds. And that's the question investors have

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Speaker 8: always had, is the bigger they get, the harder it

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Speaker 8: is to continue to grow at the pace that they

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Speaker 8: have been over a long period of time. And what

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Speaker 8: we've seen is that sort of five percent growth that

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Speaker 8: Blackrock has consistently put up, which by the way, is

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Speaker 8: well above the industry. That's break even or one to

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Speaker 8: two percent. That continues to be the case. In the

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Speaker 8: first quarter it was a little bit light. It does

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Speaker 8: appear that a lot of that had to do with

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Speaker 8: perhaps some institutional rebalancings to start the year and perhaps

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Speaker 8: some impacts later in the quarter.

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Speaker 4: But aum up eleven percent year over year, eleven zero

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Speaker 4: point five eight trillion dollars assets under management.

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Speaker 2: After wow, this is like what strike looms like me or

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Speaker 2: like the big guys whose money is it?

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Speaker 8: It's certainly both its institutional and retail dollars. You talked

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Speaker 8: about the growth rate in assets under management. You know,

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Speaker 8: they highlighted on the call today that sixty percent of

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Speaker 8: that AUM growth is actually from new dollars. Right, So

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Speaker 8: if you measure markets versus a year ago, I think

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Speaker 8: you're still going to see that we're up. But you know,

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Speaker 8: importantly they're continuing to garner assets from their clients over time.

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Speaker 8: And as we look forward in a much choppier environment

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Speaker 8: into April and frankly, who knows what's coming down the

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Speaker 8: road in the next few weeks, that organic growth becomes

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Speaker 8: increasingly more important. And that's something that Blackrock has shown

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Speaker 8: in periods of dislocation. You look back at twenty twenty,

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Speaker 8: you look back at the challenging environment in twenty two,

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Speaker 8: when the FED started increasing rates, blackrocks five percent. Organic

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Speaker 8: growth continued through that cycle. When you looked at competitors

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Speaker 8: that have less of a bread across the spectrum of

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Speaker 8: asset classes and products could not keep up.

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Speaker 2: Do they have like a fund for everybody?

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Speaker 8: I mean, they'll have a fund for everybody pretty much,

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Speaker 8: touching any asset class, any region, any geography that you.

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Speaker 2: Want, and those are all They're not all ETFs, or

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Speaker 2: are they They.

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Speaker 8: Won't all be ETFs, but increasingly that's where investors want

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Speaker 8: to allocate their dollars. Obviously that's become a very priced

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Speaker 8: competitive product. The value for money, we know, that's a

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Speaker 8: trend that's been in asset management for the past decade

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Speaker 8: plus is the flows are increasingly traveling towards the funds

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Speaker 8: that have the lowest cost associated with them. If you

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Speaker 8: look inside the ETF category, you know, over the past

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Speaker 8: decade we've seen you know, two thirds plus of all

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Speaker 8: flows into ETFs are going to that low fee bucket

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Speaker 8: between zero and ten basis points. So increasingly we're following

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Speaker 8: the trend to zero here.

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Speaker 4: Wouldn't that impact their margins eventually?

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Speaker 2: Are you saying that they're eventually going to have zero

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Speaker 2: fees now?

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Speaker 8: So there are already are some funds out there that

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Speaker 8: are of course, how black Rock make money?

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Speaker 4: How do they make money if their fund is you know.

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Speaker 8: As my ETF colleague Eric Balchunas likes to highlight, this

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Speaker 8: product can sort of you know, at this scale, there's

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Speaker 8: always going to be you know, profitability for someone like

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Speaker 8: black Rock that is sort of why you don't see

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Speaker 8: some smaller players being so successful making a foray into

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Speaker 8: the ETF spaces. You have to compete with someone that's

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Speaker 8: willing to beat you on price. And ultimately, as you

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Speaker 8: think about, you know, the trajectory of ETFs, yes we're

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Speaker 8: going to zero, but there are more thematic products coming

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Speaker 8: out that can sort of charge that forty to fifty

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Speaker 8: basis point fee that you would see akin to an

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Speaker 8: active fund. And that's sort of you know, the push

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Speaker 8: pull and sort of the barbell strategy that you see

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Speaker 8: across the industry is having scale in the small loaf,

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Speaker 8: in the large low fee products, but also pushing into

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Speaker 8: those higher fee private markets areas.

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Speaker 4: What keeps Larry Fink up at night?

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Speaker 8: Then I look, I think, you know constantly, are you

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Speaker 8: there with him?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you.

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Speaker 8: Know, I wish I had the perfect answer for that,

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Speaker 8: but I think, you know, how to navigate sort of

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Speaker 8: an environment like this is always something that he is

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Speaker 8: going to be discussing with clients that he's meeting. You know,

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Speaker 8: he's talked about how clients are you know, sort of repositioning,

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Speaker 8: how they added twenty billion dollars or two percent growth

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Speaker 8: to money market funds on black Rocks platform in the

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Speaker 8: past week plus in April, so they're increasingly sort of

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Speaker 8: de risking, taking a pause, reassessing where they want to

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Speaker 8: reallocate their dollars, and ultimately, if there is sort of

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Speaker 8: a seat change of the US exceptionalism which had been

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Speaker 8: garnering all the flows and all the assets over time,

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Speaker 8: if Europe and other regions become more attractive. We know

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Speaker 8: that Blackrock has positioning with those types of funds as well,

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Speaker 8: but we'll have to see how that shakes out over

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Speaker 8: the next couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: They're the biggest, Who's who's the next biggest?

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Speaker 8: You probably put Vanguard right next to him up there.

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Speaker 4: And you know, Vanguard's cheaper than Blackrock. You look across

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Speaker 4: their averaget.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how close are they racing to like.

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Speaker 8: You know, oh yeah, yeah, I mean I I think

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Speaker 8: if you've stacked them ETF first ETF, they're almost identical

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Speaker 8: in the space, and increasingly that speaks to that price

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Speaker 8: competition that we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Neil Neil Seins, the Bloomberg Intelligence financial analyst who follows,

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Speaker 2: among other things, black Rock.

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