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Speaker 1: The Michael Barry Show a story earlier a few days

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Speaker 1: ago about what was described as a ding dong ditch

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Speaker 1: situation where folks run up and knock on the door

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Speaker 1: and run away, except in this case, it was an

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Speaker 1: eleven year old who did it, and as he was

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Speaker 1: fleeing the home, the homeowners shot and killed him. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of discussion about what is the proper

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Speaker 1: proportionate response to such a thing, and there will be

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Speaker 1: much made of the fact that he was running away

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Speaker 1: instead of toward. There are many officer involved shootings where,

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Speaker 1: for instance, someone runs at a cop with a knife,

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Speaker 1: cop draws and he turns back. There's a lot that

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Speaker 1: goes into this training. Adrenaline is pumping. You've got to

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Speaker 1: rely on your training. But even the best Tom Brady

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Speaker 1: threw interceptions. He skipped balls to receivers. No matter how

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Speaker 1: many passes you've thrown, with people pulling all over you,

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Speaker 1: it's still a very intense moment. Now, let me offer

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Speaker 1: as a side note, I don't believe all of these

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Speaker 1: are truly knock and run because there were a lot

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Speaker 1: of videos that they take themselves and post little idiots

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Speaker 1: where they go up and kick on the door, and

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Speaker 1: if it opens, they run in and steal everything they can.

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Speaker 1: If it doesn't open, they run off. So that way

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Speaker 1: when they're caught, Oh, we're just playing ding dong ditch ah,

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Speaker 1: you crazy kids, y'all don't do that anymore. That's not

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Speaker 1: actually what they were doing. And the media is all

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Speaker 1: too ready to make a George Floyd situation. But I

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Speaker 1: reached out to my folks, Berna, because one of the

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Speaker 1: things I am a believer in is your own self protection.

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Speaker 2: My brother was a cop. You know this. I love cops,

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Speaker 2: big supporter of cops.

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Speaker 1: They're not all perfect, but neither is Congress, neither is

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Speaker 1: your company, neither is the clergy. Most of them are

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Speaker 1: doing a good job for the right reasons and making

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Speaker 1: a difference. In fact, almost all of them, I would

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Speaker 1: say that about everybody has a bad day, including ramon

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Speaker 1: most days. Actually, So I reached out to them because

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Speaker 1: I am a believer and used the burner. I use

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Speaker 1: the compact launcher, and I saw this as an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to talk about how as the burner folks say, you

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Speaker 1: could have saved two lives, the boy and the homeowner,

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Speaker 1: because his life is forever changed and could be bad.

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Speaker 1: It is not always necessary to use lethal force and

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Speaker 1: burna is known as the less lethal option b whyr

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Speaker 1: in a dot com so I asked them for an

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Speaker 1: expert on the issue and they offered to me local

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Speaker 1: as it would happen. A former captain with the Galveston

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Speaker 1: Police Department and also an active Remax skydiving team member.

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Speaker 2: Well, you a skydived. I would never.

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Speaker 1: My son went on his senior trip and he promises

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Speaker 1: he wouldn't skydive, and he did. He performs at Wingsover

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Speaker 1: Houston and other aero air shows as part of a

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Speaker 1: skydiving team. He is now with Berna while continuing to

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Speaker 1: fly and skydive, and he's a spokesman for national media outlets.

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Speaker 1: You may have seen him or heard him talking about

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Speaker 1: active shooter topics and the occasions where a less lethal

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Speaker 1: option could save not only that of the person that's killed,

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Speaker 1: but the person who pulls the trigger. John Scherard, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Michael Berry Show.

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Speaker 3: Hi, thanks for having me. That's quite the introduction. I

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Speaker 3: appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Would you like me to go on with the other

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Speaker 2: more things you'd like me to offer?

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Speaker 3: No, not at all that dead?

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Speaker 1: Is there anything about you that would surprise me, Like

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Speaker 1: do you have a tattoo on your face?

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Speaker 2: Do you have an eerie I do not.

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Speaker 3: No, I try to, you know, maintain a clear and appearance.

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Speaker 3: Twenty years in law enforce, and I'll do that to you.

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Speaker 1: So, did you set the record at Ball High School

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Speaker 1: for the forty yard dash for a white boy?

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Speaker 2: Tell me something about you? It's interesting that I wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: I did not. I'm a I'm also a corporate jet pilot,

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Speaker 3: so part of my part time gig is.

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Speaker 1: So we made it fifty seven seconds before you told

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Speaker 1: us he was a pilot. Usually would normally gets in

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Speaker 1: there within that first minute normal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Are you from somewhere? No, I'm actually from the Metroplex areas,

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Speaker 3: so actually from Dallas, and I moved down to start

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Speaker 3: working down in Galveston, PD back in two thousand and four.

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Speaker 2: What brought you to Galveson PD?

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Speaker 3: A job more than anything, really was?

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Speaker 2: It was Wiley the chief then? Who was the chief

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Speaker 2: back then?

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Speaker 3: No, that was Kenneth mac. Kenneth Mack was a chief

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Speaker 3: back then, a great chief. Loved to working for him.

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Speaker 3: He hired me and gave me an opportunity and you know,

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Speaker 3: try to make him proud of every day.

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Speaker 2: How long were you Galveston PD.

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Speaker 3: I was untill twenty twenty. I actually left in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty and then that's when I took over or actually

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Speaker 3: was hired by Burnet to create the law Enforcement division

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Speaker 3: over there with a couple other guys.

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Speaker 1: So I met the Burna guys because they were in

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Speaker 1: they were on the border. Now Sheriff then Constable Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Fullen was taking PTO and going down to the border

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Speaker 1: and working from the border, and he and they connected

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Speaker 1: and they said, Hey, do you know a guy that's

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Speaker 1: down there we're talking. We want to have him as

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Speaker 1: one of our national spokesmen. And his name is Michael Berry.

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Speaker 1: And he Michael Berry's is very different. I know him

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Speaker 1: extraordinarily well protected his family over the years. So I've

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Speaker 1: known Jimmy a very long time. Tell me, do you

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Speaker 1: live on the island now?

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 3: I'm actually up in League City. So about a tasway

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Speaker 3: between the island and Houston.

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Speaker 1: And you're not gonna hear and Hault. You're gonna pick

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Speaker 1: one and one leone, one and one only. You get

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Speaker 1: one meal today. You haven't eaten all day. It's seven pm.

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Speaker 1: Where are you eating in gas?

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Speaker 3: Jugis them every time? August best selection, great atmosphere, loved owners, Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: They They have been a sponsor of the show, just

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Speaker 1: kind of seasonally when they have events coming up, and

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Speaker 1: I don't do.

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Speaker 2: Less than a year.

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Speaker 1: I don't agree to that because then there's too much

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Speaker 1: cycle and I think confused listeners. Oh sure, but I've

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Speaker 1: made probably three exceptions in twenty years, and they are

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Speaker 1: one of them.

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Speaker 2: Because I think they do such a good job. I

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Speaker 2: think they're so good.

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Speaker 1: They're they're great for Galison, but they're really good for

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Speaker 1: the strand they bring a lot of energy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's they do a lot of philansprey down

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Speaker 3: Galiston as well. I mean they're heavily involved in the

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Speaker 3: community and that just you know, just really have that

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Speaker 3: Galveston vibe down there.

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Speaker 1: Are eighteen and nineteen now, so we don't get to

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Speaker 1: do it as much. But we wore that La Kings

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Speaker 1: or a lot of Kings, however you pronounce it across

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Speaker 1: the street.

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Speaker 2: We wore that place out when they were kids.

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Speaker 1: We go in and watch that big guy that looks

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Speaker 1: like the guy in One Flew Over the cuckoo's nest,

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Speaker 1: the big Indian guy that makes the taffy.

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Speaker 2: Oh that was a free all right.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk to John Cherrard about Berna and leslethal force

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Speaker 1: in the case of the ding Dong ditch where the

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Speaker 1: kid had to be killed recently.

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Speaker 2: Coming up.

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Speaker 1: Your photo, Josh, are you a Haink junior fan?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, I'm from Texas Ketaby.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know you say that there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: these Yankees that have moved in from Dallas.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Very true. I I originally when I moved down to Houston,

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Speaker 3: they called me a Yankee because I was in north

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Speaker 3: of North of Iten.

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Speaker 2: So that's exactly how we view it. Yes, of course.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta be careful these people in the woodlands

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Speaker 1: moving in and trying to change everything. So so you

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Speaker 1: know the ding Dong Ditch story, they were told me,

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Speaker 1: They told me you the Berna folks told me you

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Speaker 1: were perfectly well aware of the case and everything related

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Speaker 1: to it. How is that How is the result different

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Speaker 1: in that situation if the fella has an option other

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Speaker 1: than his firearm.

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Speaker 3: You know a lot of people when we look at

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Speaker 3: shootings throughout the country and This is on the civilian side.

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Speaker 3: It's also on the law enforcement side as well. When

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Speaker 3: we really dive down into these shootings, a lot of

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Speaker 3: it comes down to the fact that that was the

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Speaker 3: person's only option. They felt that that was the only

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Speaker 3: tool that they had, the only option they had for response,

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Speaker 3: and so it was either do that or do nothing.

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Speaker 3: And unfortunately, a lot of times we see these decisions

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Speaker 3: like in this case, you know that that decision is

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Speaker 3: extraordinarily flawed because they feel that, well, this is the

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Speaker 3: only tool I have, so this is the response that

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Speaker 3: I'm going to have, and then we get into a

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Speaker 3: situation like this, So you know, that's where it's so

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Speaker 3: important to have those options and to have you know,

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Speaker 3: when it comes to force options. Once again, on the

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Speaker 3: civilian and law enforcement side, it's not a one size

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Speaker 3: fits all, you know, if it's not just it's either

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Speaker 3: you know, zero or ten, you have to have you know,

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Speaker 3: those options in the middle in order to respond appropriately,

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Speaker 3: because when it comes down to it, your response has

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Speaker 3: to be reasonable, regardless of the decision you make of

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Speaker 3: why you used it, it has to be reasonable. Now

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Speaker 3: in this case, you know, we're looking at at why

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Speaker 3: he may have used it, and you brought up a

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Speaker 3: very good point in the beginning of the show, and that's,

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Speaker 3: you know, he doesn't know what's going on. He doesn't

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Speaker 3: know that they're he may not know that they're playing

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Speaker 3: a game of ding Dong ditch, you know, and he

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Speaker 3: may err on the side of caution. But once again,

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Speaker 3: even if he did, that response still has to be reasonable,

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Speaker 3: and I think we can all agree that in this

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Speaker 3: particular case, it was not not reasonable.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I'm a juror that I agree

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Speaker 1: with that, and I'm not sure that I wouldn't love

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Speaker 1: to take up the case as his defense attorney. And

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Speaker 1: siddlely read off for thirty minutes the current crime reports

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Speaker 1: of you young men attacking people.

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Speaker 2: But I agree with you that if the fella had

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Speaker 2: it all to.

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Speaker 1: Do over again, I can guarantee you he'd rather if

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Speaker 1: Josherard were handing him a burn a pistol, or a

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Speaker 1: burna launcher or a Smith and Wesson, he'd shoot the burner.

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Speaker 1: I feel certain of that fact that and that I

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Speaker 1: understand you're you're a career law enforcement offster. If I

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Speaker 1: was having this conversation with my late brother who was

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Speaker 1: as well, he would have taken your position as well.

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Speaker 2: You deal with it all day every day.

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Speaker 1: I don't what do you say to folks who say,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I can't put two weapons in my hand

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Speaker 1: at the same time.

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Speaker 2: How am I going to know which to choose?

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Speaker 3: Really, it comes down to the numbers and and you know,

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Speaker 3: and in any situation comes down to to the seconds

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Speaker 3: and being in that situation. So you know, not some

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Speaker 3: Monday morning quarterback anything, but you know you will have

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Speaker 3: to make that decision if it ever presents itself to you.

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Speaker 3: But I'm a numbers guy. I'm a data guy. And

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Speaker 3: when we look at the numbers of situations that you're

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Speaker 3: likely to encounter, and once again, I'm a cop. I

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Speaker 3: carried a gun every day in my life for the

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Speaker 3: last twenty years. But I've also carried burna, you know,

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Speaker 3: for the last five But when we look at the numbers,

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Speaker 3: you know, when we look at justifiable homicides throughout the US.

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Speaker 3: In twenty twenty three numbers, there are about four hundred

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Speaker 3: and seventy justifiable homicides in self defense across the US.

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Speaker 3: That's it, over the course of the year. So your chance,

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Speaker 3: your chance of having to use deadly force to protect

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Speaker 3: yourself to actually kill somebody is about one in seven

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand. That's the chance. Now, when we looked at

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Speaker 3: victimization or violent crime, victimization rates throughout the US in

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Speaker 3: the same year, your chance of being a victim of

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Speaker 3: violent crime is about one in two hundred and seventy.

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Speaker 3: So your chance of having to defend yourself in some

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Speaker 3: other way aside from the use of lethal force is

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Speaker 3: orders of magnitude greater than your chance of actually having

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Speaker 3: to kill someone in order to defend yourself. Now, I

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Speaker 3: do not want people to think that I'm here to

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Speaker 3: replace a gun. I'm a staunch for supporter of this

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Speaker 3: econd ofment. Like I said, carry gun every day. I'm

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Speaker 3: definitely I'd rather have it, not need and it need

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Speaker 3: not have guy. But with that being said, we have

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Speaker 3: to take a look at most likely scenarios. You know,

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Speaker 3: I was a swat guy for a long time and

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Speaker 3: we would always look at scenarios in two different ways.

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Speaker 3: What's the worst case scenario, what do I need to

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Speaker 3: be prepared for worst case? But then also what's the

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Speaker 3: most likely scenario to happen, And let's make sure we're

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Speaker 3: prepared for that too. So that we're not just you know,

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Speaker 3: overlooking the obvious out in front of us, and this

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Speaker 3: is no different. We want to be prepared for that

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Speaker 3: worst case scenario, but we really have to take a

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Speaker 3: hard look at what's most likely to happen and what

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Speaker 3: can I have and how can I prepare myself for

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Speaker 3: what's going to happen on a day to day basis

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Speaker 3: and what I know historically is more likely to happen.

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Speaker 3: So once again, in this case, having that option, having

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Speaker 3: that burn a you know, maybe he does make a mistake,

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Speaker 3: maybe it was just a game, and you know, there's

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Speaker 3: some harsh words exchange, but everybody's okay in the end,

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Speaker 3: and that's a much better outcome than sure than what

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Speaker 3: we're seeing today.

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Speaker 1: Well, and you know, I've presented option one, which is

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Speaker 1: a guy has has choices between the two. I think

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Speaker 1: it's maybe not the largest group, but the most number

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Speaker 1: of people who have responded to me that they bought

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Speaker 1: a burner.

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Speaker 2: Was because of the legal in all fifty states.

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Speaker 1: Because we speak for burner across the country, so I

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Speaker 1: hear from people across the country where they can't buy

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Speaker 1: a gun, but they can buy this, and it is

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Speaker 1: a less lethal self defense, and that's important, especially for women,

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Speaker 1: but for both and the other two things are no

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Speaker 1: background check, no license required. I believe that we overcriminalize

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Speaker 1: drug possession and underpenalize violent crime, and we have been

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Speaker 1: left with a situation where everybody's got a black mark,

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Speaker 1: which means there is no real ostracization to being a

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Speaker 1: anymore if everybody is a criminal, by which I mean

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Speaker 1: the number of listeners I get who say thanks for

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Speaker 1: the advice on Laburna. I haven't been able to carry

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Speaker 1: for X number of years, and now I have a

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Speaker 1: form of self defense I feel comfortable with.

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Speaker 2: That is a shockingly high number of people.

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Speaker 3: That is an absolute market section for us. And I've

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Speaker 3: had the same experience talking to so many people who

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Speaker 3: have told me the same thing. Hey man, I screwed

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Speaker 3: up twenty thirty years ago. You know, I was with

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Speaker 3: a group of kids. We stole a car. You know,

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Speaker 3: joy rided for a bit. But you know, thirty years later,

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Speaker 3: I've got a family, but I still have a felony

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Speaker 3: on my record, and I still cannot protect myself with

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Speaker 3: a gun, even in a state like Texas, where obviously

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Speaker 3: that's you know, in the vast majority of people. So

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Speaker 3: you know, it's really it's really interesting to and really

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Speaker 3: motivating for me to be able to say, hey, we

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Speaker 3: have a way for everyone out there, regardless of you

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Speaker 3: know your background, or regardless of your belief system, to

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Speaker 3: be able to get out. They protect themselves, protect.

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Speaker 2: Their family by r in a I am a big believer.

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Speaker 1: Josh Shard. Ramon said, I called you John Sharad. I

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Speaker 1: don't believe that's true. Josh Shirard, thank you for your

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Speaker 1: service in law enforcement, and thank you for informing people

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Speaker 1: by this. I think this is important. Thanks for being

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Speaker 1: agreeing to be our guest.

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Speaker 3: You're excited.

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Speaker 1: If you like the Michael Berry Show and Podcast, please

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Speaker 1: tell one friend and if you're so inclined, write a

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Speaker 1: nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions, and interest

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Speaker 1: directly to the show at our email address, Michael at

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Speaker 1: Michael Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking on our

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Speaker 1: website Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry Show and

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Speaker 1: Podcast is produced by Ramon Roeblis, The King of Ding.

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Speaker 1: Executive producer is Chad Knakanishi. Jim Mudd is the Creative director.

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Speaker 1: Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery, and Shenanigans are provided by Chance McLean.

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Speaker 1: Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily Bull is our

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Speaker 1: assistant listener and superfan. Contributions are appreciated and often incorporated

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Speaker 1: into our production. Where possible, we give credit, where not,

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Speaker 1: we take all the credit for ourselves. God bless the

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Speaker 1: memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long live Elvis, be a simple

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Speaker 1: man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God bless America. Finally,

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Speaker 1: if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD, call Camp

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Speaker 1: Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven PTSD and

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Speaker 1: a combat veteran will answer the phone to provide free counseling.

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Speaker 2: Three