1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: On this episode of news World. On Tuesday, October thirty, first, 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: Patrick Dye, a twenty one year old junior at Cornell 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: University originally from Pittsford, New York, was arrested for making 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: online threats to Jewish students on the Cornell campus. Diye's 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: actions represent an upward trend of the rise of anti 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: Semitism in college campuses since AMAS attacked Israel on October seventh. 7 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: I'm really pleased to welcome back my guest, William Jacobson, 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: clinical professor and director of the Securities Law Clinic at 9 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: Cornell Law School. He's also the founder and publisher of 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: Legal Insurrection, a popular politics and law website, which you 11 00:00:47,240 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: can find at legalinsurrection dot com. Bill, welcome, and thank 12 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: you for joining me again on newts World. 13 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me back. 14 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: I'm curious, you know, there are a whole series of 15 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: frankly shocking act so anti semitism on our campuses. What's 16 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: your perspective on all of this. 17 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 3: My perspective is that this was a long time coming. 18 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 3: That people cannot look at it and say something happened 19 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 3: on October seventh that ignited this, that started it. I 20 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 3: can trace it all the way back to my days 21 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 3: at Harvard Law School in the early nineteen eighties, and 22 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 3: I would call it, what's the racialization of education and 23 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 3: the racialization of the Israeli Arab conflict, much like the 24 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 3: campuses have become racialized by critical race theory, so called 25 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 3: anti racism theory, diversity, equity, and inclusion, and in that equation, 26 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 3: the Jewish students have been left on the sideline that 27 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 3: the conflict is portrayed on campuses as white oppressor Israel, 28 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 3: much like they call the US the white oppressor and 29 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 3: oppressed non white Palestinians. And that over the years, and 30 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 3: I've witnessed it at Cornell and I've witnessed it in 31 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 3: my website, coverage has metastasized into open anti Semitism. And 32 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 3: October seven, Hamas attacked was what kind of bubbled it to. 33 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: The surface, But it wasn't the underlying cause. 34 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: Is this just an offshoot of the whole notion that 35 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: there's an anti colonial rebellion worldwide and if you're white, 36 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: then your colonial and if you're anything else, while you're 37 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: part of the worldwide rebellion. 38 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 2: I think that's a large part of it. 39 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 3: I think that's a large part of it that the 40 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 3: doctrines that have taken hold on campuses are so called 41 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 3: anti colonialism, so called liberation, but it's all done in 42 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 3: racial terms, and so decolonization is the term they like 43 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 3: to use, and they portray Israel as somehow uniquely evil 44 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 3: in the world, and much like the Iranian Mulla formulation 45 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 3: of us being the big Satan, in Israel the little Satan, 46 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 3: they view Israel as essentially a proxy for Western imperialism, 47 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 3: for United States, and so it really has taken over 48 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 3: the campuses in very racial terms, and it has radicalized 49 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 3: a lot of students because what happens is they receive, 50 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 3: really nowadays, from kindergarten on up through college, an ahistorical 51 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 3: presentation of the world that somehow whatever evils the United 52 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 3: States had and whatever evils Israel had are unique to them, 53 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 3: are unique to Western societies. But of course we know 54 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 3: that's not true. Colonial domination, domination, capture of lands, capture 55 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 3: and resettling of territories is something that's. 56 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: Been going on as long as. 57 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 3: Humans have walked the earth, and certainly it's happened with 58 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 3: Muslim societies, it has happened with other societies. It's not 59 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 3: uniquely Western. It's not uniquely American, it's not uniquely Israeli, 60 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 3: and certainly not uniquely Jewish. But that's how it's portrayed. 61 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 3: So all of their anger, all of their hate for 62 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 3: Western society, is taken out on Israel, and that's really 63 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 3: what's happened. 64 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: So last week, the Ayatolahamoni said, when we say death 65 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: to America, this is not a slogan, this is a policy. 66 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: Why is it so hard for these students to understand 67 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: that death to America includes them because. 68 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 2: They don't see it that way. 69 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: They in in any ways, based on their rhetoric, see 70 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 3: themselves detached from our country, and that's a massive problem 71 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 3: in itself. They see themselves as not part of our society, 72 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 3: and that's why so many of them are calling to 73 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 3: tear it down. That so they don't view tearing down 74 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 3: our system and tearing down our society, according to what 75 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 3: they say, as necessarily a negative. Of course, it's an 76 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 3: absurd proposition. They don't realize how privileged they are to 77 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 3: be in this country. And of course there are tens 78 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 3: of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of people around the 79 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 3: world who would do anything to be here. In place 80 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: of them. So I think people don't understand that the 81 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 3: anti Israelism, the anti Semitism, is also anti Americanism on 82 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 3: these campuses, if you had one of Kamala Harris's ven 83 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 3: diagrams okay that she loves so much, you would have 84 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 3: almost a very significant, I'm not sure one hundred percent overlap, 85 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 3: but a very significant overlap between the students who would 86 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 3: describe themselves as anti American and the students who describe 87 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 3: themselves as anti Israel. There's a huge overlap. They're the 88 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 3: same activists, so they don't when they hear Komani say 89 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 3: those things, if they even hear it, I don't think 90 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 3: they necessarily view that as a bad thing because they've 91 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 3: been taught since childhood that we are uniquely evil in 92 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 3: the world, that we are systemically racist, that it cannot 93 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 3: be solved, that you can only work to overcome it 94 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 3: and tear it down. It's really a horrifying perspective that 95 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 3: our education system, how our education system is raising students. 96 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: Two things. One you mentioned Kamala Harris. I've noticed that 97 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: her stepdaughter had raised eight million dollars for Hamas since 98 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: October seventh, which is kind of astonishing. Here's the vice 99 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: president's daughter raising money for a overtly terrorist organization. Yeah. 100 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 3: I think she raised it for one of those front 101 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 3: groups to provide plausible deniability. So Hamas and other Islamist 102 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 3: organizations have a lot of so called charities around the world. 103 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: I think that's how she did it. 104 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 3: I forget the name of the group, but it's one 105 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 3: which I think is known to be affiliated. We've seen 106 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 3: this many times in the US, and some groups have 107 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 3: even been prosecuted for it. Various Islamist charities that are 108 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 3: really just front groups, but they have layers of corporate deniability. 109 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 3: And I think that's what she's doing. But the question 110 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: is why is she doing that? And why isn't she 111 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 3: raising money for the International Red Cross? Okay, why isn't 112 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 3: she raising money for any of the organizations which, whether 113 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 3: you like everything they do or you don't, are legitimate 114 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 3: humanitarian organizations. Why would you go to a group with 115 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 3: shady connections? And I think that's just another example. I mean, 116 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 3: I don't know much about her stepdaughter, but it's another 117 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 3: example of how people who are college age or in 118 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 3: their twenties, maybe now even in their early thirties were 119 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 3: raised very differently than we were raised when it comes 120 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 3: to the outlook on the world and the outlook on 121 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 3: our own country. 122 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: There was an FBI report that I think anti Semitic 123 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: activities incidents have jumped almost four hundred percent in the 124 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: last year. I suspect now in the last three weeks 125 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: it's even more dramatic. And yet the Vice President went 126 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: on TV to explain to us the great challenge we 127 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: face is Islamophobia. How can you watch the evening news 128 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: and conclude that it is the group who have been 129 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: doing the persecuting who are the ones who are in trouble, 130 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: and that the people being persecuted must in fact be 131 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: the ones who are bad. It's almost like the world 132 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: turned upside down. 133 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 3: You know a lot of college statements that were issued 134 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 3: college presidential statements after this, which is you had an 135 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 3: event on October Sex which was the single largest mass 136 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 3: murder of Jews since the Holocaust, which was done in 137 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 3: ways that would make even Isis ashamed. You know, the mutilation, torture, 138 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 3: mass rape. The stories are still coming out, burning of bodies, 139 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 3: dismembering of children in front of their parents. I mean 140 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 3: things that are so beyond that these are Holocaust level events, 141 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 3: although not necessarily numerically, but in terms of qualitatively Holocaust 142 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 3: and isis level events inflicted specifically on the Jewish people 143 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 3: because they're Jewish, And almost every college presidential statement that 144 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 3: has come out throws Islamophobia into the condemnation of what 145 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 3: just happened. Now, why would you do that? Put aside 146 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 3: whether you should have efforts against Islamophobia or any other phobia. 147 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 3: I noticed there's no efforts about anti Christian bias, which 148 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 3: is much more pervasive than Islamophobia. 149 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: But why would you do that? 150 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 3: Why on this moment of all moments, unique to the 151 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 3: Jewish people, done and inflicted upon people because they were Jewish, 152 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 3: and done by Islamists, okay, widely cheered throughout the Islamic world, 153 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 3: Why in those sentences do you need to throw in Islamophobia? 154 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 3: Why are you so incapable of recognizing the harm that 155 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 3: was done uniquely to the Jewish people that even for 156 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 3: a day, you can't acknowledge that independent of something else. 157 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 3: And that's really a problem. I think it speaks to 158 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 3: a lot of what's wrong with our societies. We refuse 159 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 3: to identify what are the real threats that we face. 160 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: I can't decide whether it's a moral equivalence problem we 161 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: can't talk about one without being balanced, or whether it 162 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: is a political constituency problem that there are now enough 163 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: people who are Arab Americans, particularly in places like Michigan, 164 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: that the bid deministration really can't figure out how to 165 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: handle this conflict that is now not just in Israel 166 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: and Goza, but the conflict's now inside the United States. 167 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 2: I think it's a combination of the two. 168 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 3: One. I think it's ideological, the need to draw moral equivalents, 169 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 3: to need to bring diversity, equity, and inclusion into everything 170 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 3: you do. So you can't decry anti Semitism vile acts 171 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 3: of violence without decrying other sorts of hatred in the world. 172 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 3: So I think that ideological perspective is part of it, 173 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 3: and I think part of it is political. I think 174 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 3: that it's not limited by any means to the Arab 175 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 3: American community. The progressive wing of the Democratic Party hates Israel, 176 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 3: you know, the squad Rashida, talib elon Omar and many 177 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 3: other people. There's a significant percentage of the Democrat Party 178 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 3: that hates Israel. And I think that's what the administration 179 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 3: had to contend with and by far it's you know, 180 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 3: secular opposition to Israel. It's not necessarily religious based. And 181 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 3: so to me, that's the political angle if you look 182 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 3: at gallup polling over the years on who do you 183 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 3: have more sympathy for or who do you sympathetize with? Now, 184 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 3: I don't love the phrasing of that question because sympathy 185 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 3: could mean a lot of things, but essentially Democrats are 186 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 3: fifty to fifty now, they no longer have more sympathy, 187 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 3: whatever that means for Israel versus the Palestinians. So the 188 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 3: Democratic Party at its base, at its progressive wing, is 189 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 3: something that Democrat politicians have to contend with. And I 190 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 3: think that's the political angle that's driving it. 191 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: It puts Senator Schumer in a difficult position because he 192 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: now in New York has both a very large Jewish 193 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: constituency and he has an increasingly militant left wing anti 194 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: Israel constituency and he's trying to dance and not get 195 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: destroyed in between the two of them. And it's the 196 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: huge shift from where he would have been ten years ago. 197 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think people have pointed to him above 198 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 3: well else I haven't tracked what he's been saying, but 199 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 3: he certainly hasn't been out front and center. I mean, 200 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 3: you know the famous line about the most dangerous place 201 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 3: in the world is between Chuck Schumer and a TV camera. 202 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 3: Where has Chuck Schumer been last three weeks. Again, I'm 203 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 3: not going to say he said nothing, because I'm sure 204 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 3: he said things. But this is not the Chuck Schumer 205 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 3: we know on almost every other issue, where he makes 206 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 3: himself the center of attention, and he is this spokesman, 207 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 3: you know, dominating in the airwaves. 208 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 2: He's not been around. 209 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 3: And I think in this moment, people are showing their 210 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 3: true character, and I think Schumer probably is taking into 211 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 3: account his political calculation. I'm not sure why. It's not 212 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 3: like he's not going to get re elected. 213 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 2: I think he's. 214 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 3: Got a while before he's up again, and he's a 215 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 3: shoe in to be re elected, so I'm not really 216 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 3: sure why. I think perhaps there are some people in 217 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 3: the Senate, some Democratic senators, who are in disagreement with him, 218 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 3: but I'm not sure why he's in hiding relative to 219 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 3: how front and center he should be on this issue. 220 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: I think part of its ferocity that if you take 221 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: this group on head on, that their ability to come 222 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: back and to just be so intense and so hostile 223 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: is kind of amazing, and I think people just flinch 224 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: from standing up against them. 225 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 2: They are very aggressive. 226 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 3: We've seen them with their takeover of the capital, for 227 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 3: which nobody's been charged, unlike other takeovers of the Capitol. 228 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 3: Their disruption of congressional hearings regularly. I was just watching 229 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 3: this morning the House Judiciary Committee hearing and there was 230 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 3: a Cornell student was among the people testifying about campus 231 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 3: and anti semitism. And that's one of the reasons I 232 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 3: watched it because I knew there was going to be 233 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 3: a Cornell student there and she was interrupted by people 234 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,239 Speaker 3: screaming and protesting. 235 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 2: So they are very aggressive. 236 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 3: They take over offices, they take over buildings, They get 237 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 3: treated with kid gloves. They are never held to account. 238 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 3: So I think it does intimidate people like Chuck Schumer 239 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: because he knows that there have been protests outside his 240 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 3: home in Brooklyn. I think fairly strong protests outside. I 241 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 3: think it was two or three weeks ago. I might 242 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: be slightly off on the timing that there were significant 243 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 3: arrests of very aggressive protesters outside his home in Brooklyn. 244 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 3: These are dangerous people. They're aggressive people. They think they 245 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 3: can intimidate others, and it has an impact on politicians. 246 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: Congressman McCormick O Georgia who offered the resolution to censure 247 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: Congresswoman to Lead for her anti Israel comments, and I 248 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: think at one point calling for the destruction of Israel. 249 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: He announced that his staff was working from home today 250 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: because they actually had death threats. Because that's the intensity 251 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: of the reaction on the other side. 252 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 3: That doesn't surprise me at all. We've witnessed this an 253 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 3: increasingly vitriolic left wing of the Democratic Party. You've seen 254 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: it with Antifa, we've seen it with other groups that 255 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 3: they are committed to street violence, they're committed to street intimidation. 256 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 3: We see them going around in what appears to be 257 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 3: a semi organized fashion, or maybe it's just caught on 258 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 3: in their circles, tearing and flyers with regard to Israelis, 259 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 3: including children who've been kidnapped by Hamas. So there's something 260 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 3: gone very very wrong on the far left wing of 261 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 3: the Democratic Party, which has an enormous potential for violence. 262 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: We did Laura Ingram show, and before I went on, 263 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: she had five of the pro terrorist women members of 264 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: Congress speaking, and she had them put back to back 265 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: to Baccia at the full intensity of all five of them, 266 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: and by the fifth one there was a level of 267 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: hysteria and hostility that was really startling. I mean, it 268 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: resembled some of the things I've read about in terms 269 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: of the pre Civil war congresses where people ended up 270 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: getting beaten with canes and what have you. There's a 271 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: ferocity there that is I think very challenging, which frankly 272 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,719 Speaker 1: has led me to wonder what we should do about it, 273 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: both on campuses but also as a country, because as 274 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: a historian, I find the parallelism with the intensity and 275 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: the militancy and the organization from nineteen twenty nine to 276 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: thirty three of the Nazis in Weimar, Germany very similar. 277 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: That you have this emerging group willing to impose its views, 278 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: people intimidated against standing up against it, not quite believing 279 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: that it really really means what it's saying, because if 280 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: you think about what they're really saying, that it's so 281 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: horrifying that you'd have to deal with them. So let's 282 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: start with where you operate, which is the campuses. What 283 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: would you do to recapture the campuses for civilization. 284 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 3: The first thing you have to do is get rid 285 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 3: of what is euphemistically called diversity, equity, and inclusion, which 286 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 3: is simply a racialization of everything. It is viewing everything 287 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 3: that happens through a racial lens and some other identity lenses, 288 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 3: but basically it's group by identity approach to the world, 289 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 3: but particularly a group racial identity approach to the world. 290 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 3: It's poisonous. It dominates the campuses, it certainly dominates Cornell, 291 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 3: and it has enormous, enormous negative implications for the society. 292 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 3: If you wanted to destroy our country from within, what 293 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 3: would you do differently than set people against each other 294 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 3: based on race and ethnicity. I'm not sure you would 295 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 3: do anything differently. So the first step is what has 296 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 3: happened in Florida. Regardless of who someone supports for the 297 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 3: Republican nomination, what Ron DeSantis has done in Florida is 298 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 3: to defund the bureaucracies, and that I think would be 299 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 3: a really good step. To refocus education on campuses, not 300 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 3: just on academics, but to the extent you want to 301 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 3: fight hate and fight bigotry on campus, uphold the dignity 302 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 3: of the individual uphold our constitutional guarantee of equal protection, 303 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 3: that each person is to be treated as an individual, 304 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 3: not as a proxy for their racial or ethnic group. 305 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 3: That's how we need to refocus it. That's not going 306 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 3: to solve the problem today, but if we did that, 307 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 3: I think it would go a long way towards solving 308 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 3: the problem with the incoming students on college campuses. 309 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: So would you cut off federal funding to schools that 310 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: continue to offer that kind of focus? 311 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would. I think that's got to be considered. 312 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 3: That's not going to happen, obviously unless there's a dramatic 313 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 3: change in the political structure in Washington, but states can 314 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 3: do it also. I would absolutely no federal funding for 315 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 3: these DEI bureaucracies. I think that would be a really 316 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 3: good step. The faculties at certainly the so called elite 317 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 3: universities and colleges, have been completely captured by radicals, particularly 318 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 3: in the humanities, and I think that that's something that 319 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 3: needs to be addressed. 320 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 2: I have been saying for a long time. I do not. 321 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 3: Believe that universities, at least at this so called elite level, 322 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 3: can be reformed internally because there's no internal opposition to 323 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 3: help with that reform. If you look at the statistics 324 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 3: on how professors self identify, how faculty self identify, and 325 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 3: if you go back twenty five or thirty years, I 326 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 3: think the statistics are that has between liberal and conservative. 327 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 3: It was about sixty forty liberal to conservative. So campus 328 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 3: has always leaned left. But if you look at it 329 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,239 Speaker 3: currently at something like twenty eight to one, and if 330 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 3: you look at the youngest cohort professors who've only been 331 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 3: teaching for ten years or less, something like forty to one, 332 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 3: there is no internal opposition left on campus. I would 333 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 3: prefer that outsiders not have to take the lead. I 334 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 3: would prefer that campuses could reform themselves, but they can't. 335 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 3: So I think federal funding, state funding. How about enforcing 336 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 3: state and federal civil rights laws, because most a lot 337 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 3: of what happens on campuses is discrimination that violates the law, 338 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 3: but it doesn't get enforced. So I think there's a 339 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 3: lot of things, but funding, I think is the key. 340 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 3: I think the money is the key here. 341 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: Do you think that if you were able to defund 342 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: the DEI efforts that that would lead to a substantial 343 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 1: shift in the universities. 344 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 3: Yes, it's not going to cure things in and of itself, 345 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 3: but it would be a dramatic improvement if those race based, 346 00:22:50,960 --> 00:23:00,120 Speaker 3: race focused, ethnicity focused, racial lens focused administrative programming and 347 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 3: we're eliminated, that would be a dramatic rise. At Cornell, 348 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 3: there are efforts, and I think they're coming into fruition 349 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 3: next fall, the next academic year, to require these sort 350 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 3: of DEI courses, not just training, but coursework for incoming freshmen. 351 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 3: So you're going to have new generations of students indoctrinating 352 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 3: to believe in that we are systemically racist country, that 353 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 3: it can't be cured. The only thing that can help 354 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 3: it is to tear things down, and that race in 355 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 3: the color of your skin is the most important attribute 356 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 3: as to whether you'll be successful in this society. And 357 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 3: that's simply not true. But that's what's happening. It's getting worse, 358 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 3: it is not getting better. 359 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: In addition to taking that head on, how do we 360 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: deal with the sort of psychological pressures and cultural pressures 361 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: that seem to be designed almost to drive Jewish students 362 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: off campus. 363 00:23:59,080 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: I think you're right. 364 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 3: I think this is in many ways a cultural problem 365 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 3: that has happened on campuses. It's a deeply anti Western 366 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 3: cultural problem which is taking itself out as has happened 367 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 3: of course for many centuries on the Jewish population, who 368 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 3: are seen for whatever the reason, is an easy target. 369 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 2: While there are. 370 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 3: Some colleges that have significant Jewish populations, they're never majority 371 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 3: or almost never majority, except for religious colleges. They are 372 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 3: vulnerable because they are not the majority, and they are 373 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 3: the victim, held out as the ultimate evil, the so 374 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 3: called international jew who is hated by everybody, and that 375 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 3: is led mostly on campuses by the left wing and 376 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 3: the Islamis, so the so called red Green alliance that 377 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 3: the far left and the Islamists all have the same enemy. 378 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 3: And those two ropes, the far left and the Islamists 379 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 3: on campuses are very powerful and that is why Israel 380 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 3: and Jews are being singled out. But people should understand 381 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 3: that this is an anti American culture on campuses. It's 382 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 3: an anti Western culture on campuses which is revealing itself 383 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,959 Speaker 3: as anti Semitism. 384 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: The reinforce your point about dei's important. Tabia Lee, who 385 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: is a former DEI director, wrote in The New York 386 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: Post quote, I saw anti Semitism on a weekly basis 387 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: in my two years as a faculty diversity, equity and 388 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: Inclusion director. In fact, I can safely say the toxic 389 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: DEI ideology deliberately stokes hatred to Israel and the Jewish people. Now, 390 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: given that kind of testimony and evidence, why are the 391 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,959 Speaker 1: board of trustees tolerating and turning this into a course? 392 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 3: That is a really good question, and that's a question 393 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 3: that I posed to the Cornell Board of Trustees and 394 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 3: never really got an answer from them. Is you need 395 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 3: to understand you need to stop all new DEI programming 396 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 3: at Cornell until you can understand the negative impact it's 397 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 3: having both on the campus generally and also its connection 398 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 3: to the rise of antisemitism on the campus. It is 399 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 3: a wonder and I think it's because a lot of 400 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 3: board of trustees probably don't take their job as seriously 401 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 3: as it should. It's very frequently a perk of being 402 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 3: a big donor to a university or to a college. 403 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 3: That's one of your rewards is you get to be 404 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 3: on the board of trustees. And I don't know if 405 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 3: they really view their job as seriously as they should 406 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,239 Speaker 3: take it. My guess is if you ask them, they 407 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 3: would say, yes, we do take it seriously. But their 408 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 3: conduct doesn't show that, and I think Cornell is a 409 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 3: very good example of that that I've been warning about 410 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 3: this for years, others have been warning about it, and 411 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 3: nothing was done. I also think that DEI has taken 412 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 3: on a quasi religious fervor at Cornell and elsewhere, and 413 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 3: nobody is willing to question it. 414 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 2: The campus. 415 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 3: In July of twenty twenty, a couple of months after 416 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 3: George Floyd died, was declared by the president of the 417 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 3: university to be an anti racist campus, that they were 418 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,239 Speaker 3: going to have an anti racism initiative on campus that 419 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 3: would involve faculty, staff, and students, and the recommended reading 420 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 3: for that summer for the entire university was Ebram Kendy's 421 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 3: How to Be An Anti Racist, which, if you've ever 422 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 3: read it, is a pretty horrible book. It advocates racial discrimination. 423 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 3: And so you have a university that declares itself to 424 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 3: be anti racist that recommends Ibram Kendy's book as the 425 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 3: reading for the summer for the entire campus, which is 426 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 3: now implementing mandated coursework and mandated training for staff. They 427 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 3: tried to implement that on faculty, and faculty revolted. I 428 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 3: don't think they revolted so much substantively over the topic. 429 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 3: I think they revolted as they didn't think the administration 430 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 3: could force faculty to go through that sort of training. So, 431 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 3: you know, Cornell has a fevered pitch of DEI so 432 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 3: bad that the universities and the president's reaction to what 433 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,719 Speaker 3: just happened on campus where you not only had you know, 434 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 3: pro Haamas demonstrations, you had a professor who said he 435 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 3: felt exhilarated when he heard of the AMAS attack. You 436 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 3: had threats by a student who's now FBI custody against 437 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 3: other Jewish students on campus, threatening to slit throats and 438 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 3: shoot up the Jewish living house, Jewish dining hall, I 439 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 3: should say, and Kosher dining hall is a better description. 440 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 3: It's open to anybody. It's the Kosher dining hall. And 441 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 3: what does the president do and the senior administration. They 442 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 3: announce that they are going to beef up the DEI 443 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 3: resources to include broader coverage of antisemitism and of course Islamophobia, 444 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 3: And so that one goes to show you that antisemitism 445 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 3: wasn't really addressed by this DEI initiative on campus. And 446 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 3: they are so wedded to the idea that DEI must 447 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 3: remain that rather than examining, deconstructing DEI removing it from 448 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 3: the campus, they are simply going to throw a module 449 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 3: in there on anti Semitism. So I don't think the 450 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 3: board of Trustees has the guts at Cornell, at least 451 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 3: they haven't shown it so far to take on the 452 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 3: DEI bureaucracy and the Dei quasi religion that has taken 453 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 3: hold on campus. And until they do that, whatever they do. 454 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: Is just going to be a band aid. 455 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: Whatever the various boards of trustees are like. You begin 456 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: to have people like Ronald Lauder, who has now threatened 457 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: to stop donations the University of Pennsylvania, or Les Wesner 458 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: and his wife Abigail, who have the Westerner Foundation, which 459 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: is now breaking its ties with Harvard University. And you 460 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: get a number of these kind of things, and you've 461 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: had in the legal profession the number of the major 462 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: law firms send a letter saying they're not going to 463 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: hire anybody who's involved in anti Israel and Prohomas demonstrations. 464 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: Those are the beginning of a kind of reaction I 465 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: don't think we've seen in years. 466 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 3: I think it's a positive development that donors are fire 467 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 3: only paying attention and finally understanding that they may think 468 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 3: they're supporting education when they donate tens of millions of 469 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 3: dollars to these universities, but in fact they're actually donating 470 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 3: to highly activist institutions to turn out additional activists who 471 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 3: are contrary to their own interests. I think it's a 472 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 3: positive development. I don't think in and of itself it's 473 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 3: going to change the institutional behavior because it's too baked in, 474 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 3: and particularly if you look at a Harvard. So Harvard, 475 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 3: for example, has an endowment just over fifty billion dollars. 476 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 3: That's billion with a B, not million with an M, 477 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 3: and so they are largely immune to the pressures of donors. 478 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 3: If they never got another donation, they would survive. The 479 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 3: donations are not to sustain the operation, it's to put 480 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 3: frosting on the cake. I think these are lead institutions 481 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 3: largely feel immune to donor pressure. And of course we 482 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 3: also know that foreign funding. There's billions of dollars of 483 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 3: foreign funding. If they lose a Ronald Lauder as a donor, 484 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 3: they'll pick up an anti Israel left wing tech billionaire 485 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 3: as a donor, where they'll pick up somebody affiliated with Cutter. 486 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 3: So while I'm in favor of these donors becoming active, 487 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 3: I don't think we should kid ourselves. These administrators at 488 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 3: these elite institutions consider the institutions to be theirs, not 489 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 3: to be the donors, not to be anybody else's. 490 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: Do you think, though, that either cutting off federal aid 491 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: or cutting off the tax deductible status would have a 492 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: bigger impact? 493 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 2: Oh? 494 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean the numbers would just dwarf whatever the 495 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 3: donors are donating that. You know, federal funding is just massive. 496 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 3: You recall it was a long time ago, but it 497 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 3: ended up in a Supreme Court decision. Harvard Law School 498 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 3: would not permit military recruiters on campus, and Congress passed 499 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 3: a lossing that you can't get federal funding if you 500 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 3: don't treat military recruiters on equal footing with other recruiters. 501 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 2: And it went up to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme. 502 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 3: Court held that that law was constitutional, and so Harvard 503 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 3: was faced with the loss of federal funding not just 504 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 3: for Harvard Law School but for the entire university. 505 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 2: So they back down. 506 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 3: Yes, federal funding is so massive that if that were 507 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 3: to be put on the line. I think that would 508 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 3: change institutional behavior dramatically. 509 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: I want to tell you I'm very impressed with your courage, 510 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: because you must face a fair amount of pushback from 511 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: your colleagues and from your administrative leaders to take the 512 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: stand you do. Has it made you particularly uncomfortable to 513 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: speak out like this? 514 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 3: When I was hired, I was non political. If you'd 515 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 3: googled me in two thousand and six and two thousand 516 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 3: and seven, you would have found that I was a 517 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 3: lawyer in private practice. I won this case, I lost 518 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 3: that case, never political. I got hired at the end 519 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 3: of two thousand and seven. It was really the two 520 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 3: thousand and eight campaign, Obama versus McCain. 521 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 2: That got me political. 522 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 3: And I started my website in October two thousand and eight, 523 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 3: a year after I started at or NOEW, and within 524 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 3: two to three weeks before the end of October, I 525 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 3: was already getting the nasty grams and the hate mail 526 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 3: emails to the university. How dare they have someone like 527 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 3: me on faculty only because I was supporting McCain and 528 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 3: I was pointing out that Obama's got some problems here. 529 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,760 Speaker 3: And that continued for the better part. 530 00:34:58,520 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 2: Of a decade. 531 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 3: That continued for eight plus years, not every day, but 532 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 3: consistently harassment from off the campus attempts to get me fired. 533 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 3: The university was always very good about it. They always 534 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 3: backed me up, and it always came from off campus 535 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 3: until George Floyd. So post George Floyd, I saw protesters 536 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 3: in the streets with their hands up saying hands up, 537 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 3: don't shoot. And I knew that that was from the 538 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 3: Michael Brown case that created Black Lives Matter, because we 539 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 3: followed it at the website, and I knew that that 540 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 3: was a fabrication and Michael Brown was not shot with 541 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 3: his hands up saying don't shoot. He was shot because 542 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 3: he punched a policeman in the face and tried to 543 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 3: steal his weapon. So I wrote a post that I'd 544 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 3: written many kinds before, saying, hey, you know, all you 545 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 3: people are marching hands up, don't shoot. Do you realize 546 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 3: that's a fabricated narrative from the Michael Brown case, and 547 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 3: that the Obama Justice Department investigated and found there's no 548 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 3: credible evidence that Michael Brown was shot with his hands 549 00:35:58,920 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 3: up saying don't shoot. 550 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 2: And people lost their minds. 551 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 3: Then the complaints came from within the building, and there 552 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 3: were attempts to get me fired, petitions to get me fired. 553 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 3: Twenty one faculty members denounced me, fifteen student groups declared 554 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 3: a boycott of my course. 555 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 2: But I didn't back down. 556 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 3: I got a lot of outside support and they didn't 557 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 3: end up firing me. 558 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 2: But yeah, it's been uncomfortable. 559 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 3: I don't have a huge amount of tact with my 560 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 3: colleagues since they signed a letter denouncing me. But I 561 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 3: am one of the only people on Cornell's campus who 562 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 3: speaks out contrary to the prevailing narrative. And there's a 563 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 3: price to pay. And what happens is people just end 564 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 3: up leaving. They don't wait to be fired. They just 565 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 3: say why should I live in an environment like this? 566 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 3: And I understand that it's a question I ask myself 567 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 3: all the time. And that's why there were so few 568 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 3: conservatives left on campuses, because they make a life decision 569 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 3: that this is now not how I want to lead 570 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 3: my life. And they're not hired anymore. And so, yeah, 571 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 3: it's been a difficult road. But I wouldn't be on 572 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 3: your show, you know, talking if I didn't speak out, 573 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 3: And I would hate to be somebody just sitting on 574 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 3: the sideline fuming you know about what's happening without trying 575 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:18,399 Speaker 3: to do something about it. 576 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: I think people who've never done it underestimate the level 577 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 1: of courage it takes to actually stand for your beliefs 578 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: when the society around you is deeply hostile, and I 579 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: commend you for having the courage to do this. I 580 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: think it's really important, and I think people like you 581 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: around the country are sort of a little bit like 582 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 1: the Minutemen at the beginning of the American Revolution. You're 583 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 1: the standard bearers for freedom in a way that is 584 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 1: really really important, and I hope that to a little extent, 585 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,839 Speaker 1: this particular podcast encourages you to believe that what you're 586 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: doing is worthwhile and atribution to the survival of America 587 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: and the survival of freedom within the rule of law 588 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: under our Constitution. I want to thank you for joining me. 589 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: I think our listeners are going to find this fascinating 590 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: and very very timely conversation, and I hope they will 591 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: go and take a look at your website and take 592 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: a look at your writing as it evolves over the 593 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: next few years. So Bill, thank you very much for being. 594 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 3: With us great and thank you for having me on 595 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 3: I appreciate it greatly. 596 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,959 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest William Jacobson. You can learn 597 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: more about the rise nantisemitism in college campuses on our 598 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by 599 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: Gingish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. 600 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show 601 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team 602 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 1: at Gingrish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I 603 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us 604 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,800 Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others 605 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of 606 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: Newtsworld can sign up from my three free weekly columns 607 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: at Gingrish three sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. 608 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: This is Neutsworld.