Speaker 1: Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush Friday Interview edition
Speaker 1: with friend of the show and friend in real life,
Speaker 1: Mr Paul Schneider. Hello, I've got one thing to say
Speaker 1: to you, Chuck oh boys looking for the neuro quote.
Speaker 1: It's this, I am like God and God like me.
Speaker 1: I am as large as God. He is as small
Speaker 1: as I. He cannot above me, nor I beneath him.
Speaker 1: Be it's a laziest century. You're accent is so much
Speaker 1: better because you were from North Carolina. It's crazy how
Speaker 1: bad his is. Yeah, here's the thing. We'll go ahead
Speaker 1: and talk about the accent in Cape Fire right off
Speaker 1: the name. But I do want to talk about something
Speaker 1: else before we even talk about the movie. But the
Speaker 1: accent is something that I had to get over and
Speaker 1: reckon with over the years, and now I actually like
Speaker 1: it for it's sort of fun be movie quality. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it is by no means an authentic Southern accent. No.
Speaker 1: I couldn't get over it at the at the first
Speaker 1: time I saw it, I was I was so um
Speaker 1: like aggrieved as a Southerner, you know, I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, I was like a deal with us? Is
Speaker 1: that such a hard accent to get right? And the
Speaker 1: movies always way way way overdo it. And not just that,
Speaker 1: but every Southern you know, the default Southern character with
Speaker 1: a Southern accent in all media is an idiot. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, he's a clown. And obviously us and other
Speaker 1: people like us have a problem with that because we're
Speaker 1: Southern guys and we're we have fairly smart individuals, yeah
Speaker 1: with um with low self esteems, and we just want
Speaker 1: everybody to you know, we want to we want to
Speaker 1: place at the table spending your life defending this out
Speaker 1: in conversation. Do you like me too much? Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a big thing because it's just like now, we're not
Speaker 1: all dump crackers. Can be very progressive, we can be
Speaker 1: very intelligent. And then I try to give like literary
Speaker 1: examples to back up myself, and I can't remember anything.
Speaker 1: I'm like Faulkner, right, yeah, that's our guy, and there's
Speaker 1: like okay, and I'm like, you know, Wanta Matapeia County,
Speaker 1: all the books. I might even say all the books. Oh,
Speaker 1: so before we get going on Cape Fear and Earnest,
Speaker 1: you just got finished shooting a motion picture in Louisiana
Speaker 1: and as I'm springing this on you, but is it
Speaker 1: something you can you can talk about or you gotta
Speaker 1: keep it under wraps um, Who fucking knows h I
Speaker 1: never get those emails. But it's it's enough there, you know,
Speaker 1: not unlike Cape Fear. It's a it's a it's a
Speaker 1: yeah production for blum House, and it kind of has
Speaker 1: this great pulpy, kind of pulpy quality. You know. It's
Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of an action family adventure, but
Speaker 1: in essence, just like this one, it's a family that
Speaker 1: you know, has to deal with itself, um because of
Speaker 1: this sort of dangerous um you know, because you know,
Speaker 1: because of this dangerous incident that goes. Yeah, yeah, we
Speaker 1: don't want to give it anything away. You already spoiled
Speaker 1: it for me privately, And I was like, well, thanks
Speaker 1: a lot, man, I guess I don't need to see
Speaker 1: it now. Yeah, of course I'm going to see it.
Speaker 1: But it sounds like a fun little thriller with some
Speaker 1: good twist and turns um a little little straw dogs
Speaker 1: element to it, which is great, and it did. Watching
Speaker 1: Cape Fear yesterday, I kept thinking, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: Schidor just did a movie that's not completely unlike this,
Speaker 1: because they're some certain themes and cape fear that especially
Speaker 1: I get now more as a father and husband about them,
Speaker 1: whether it's right or wrong, the pressure a man might
Speaker 1: put on himself to be a protector, and and guys
Speaker 1: like us probably feeling fairly incapable like Nick Nulty was
Speaker 1: in this movie, of being the projector Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know it. It's funny how the decisions that Sam
Speaker 1: has made kind of you know, kind of strip them
Speaker 1: of his power. And the fact that he married Lee,
Speaker 1: this very beautiful, very intelligent woman. Um, you know, she
Speaker 1: reminds him of this in these insidious sort of cutting
Speaker 1: ways all the way through Oh yeah, the film. And
Speaker 1: one thing that I um, one thing that I read was,
Speaker 1: you know, Scorsese was interested in making this if If.
Speaker 1: In the re make, they pumped up the disintegration of
Speaker 1: the family and the deceit and the duplicitousness of the
Speaker 1: family and how much they tear each other apart. And
Speaker 1: in the in the DVD extras Blu Ray extras, they
Speaker 1: talked about how you know, they used Bernard Herman's score.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I know that Elmer Bernstein conducted and arranged,
Speaker 1: and I you know, I met Elmer Bernstein at in
Speaker 1: film school and he came to visit. But what they
Speaker 1: did is they used some of the most, um like
Speaker 1: the heaviest, most dramatic pieces of Herman's score in the
Speaker 1: family scenes. In the family sequences, you know, not as
Speaker 1: Katie is coming after you know, coming after Sam with
Speaker 1: a pipe or you know, you know, is he you know,
Speaker 1: breaking into the house. It was in these moments of
Speaker 1: you know, there's this great moment where Danny Juliet Lewis
Speaker 1: she says, she's so good. Oh man, there's a whole
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a whole movie crush on her. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean that's one of the great one
Speaker 1: of the great sort of I don't want to say
Speaker 1: kid performances, but like young adults performances, because she fits,
Speaker 1: she fits right into the movie. But she's doing something
Speaker 1: else that's insane. You know, she's like she's like, um,
Speaker 1: she's like an extremely well trained actor and a completely
Speaker 1: non actor all at the same time. Yeah, what are
Speaker 1: you saying about her? Though? I cut you off and
Speaker 1: you had a relevant point about her. Oh so there
Speaker 1: was I was noticing last night when I watched it again,
Speaker 1: that you know, these juxtapositions between you know a lot,
Speaker 1: you know, what what's happening on you know, what's happening
Speaker 1: in the character of the narrative and what happens in
Speaker 1: the camera. So Danny says, I thought we were supposed
Speaker 1: to be relaxed now, and as as the camera is
Speaker 1: like charging towards her at a hundred miles an hour.
Speaker 1: And yeah, you know, there's that scene at the dinner
Speaker 1: table when Sam is saying, you know, they hired Joe
Speaker 1: Don Baker as a private eye, and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I think this guy is really going to
Speaker 1: work out. You know, he seems gonna be really enjoying it,
Speaker 1: and then the phone rings and everyone. It's one of
Speaker 1: my favorite moments. And Danny too, is the one. She's
Speaker 1: the one, the first one later in the movie, in
Speaker 1: the movie at the climax and that last amazing sequence
Speaker 1: that we'll get do in depth later, but uh, she's
Speaker 1: the first one that immediately has the instinct to try
Speaker 1: and manipulate his sexuality and his emotions right off the Batman.
Speaker 1: She's the first one that's like, you know, I thought
Speaker 1: we had this connection. Oh no, no, no, Jessica Lane
Speaker 1: talks about the connection, but she's talking about reading nexus.
Speaker 1: Yeah right right, yeah, She's like, I read that thing,
Speaker 1: you know, like let's connect on that you know which
Speaker 1: part in Like right away, this girl is the one
Speaker 1: that's leading the charge while Dad's tied up outside and
Speaker 1: Jessica Lang is at first just understandably completely freaked out,
Speaker 1: and she uses language. It was something like he says
Speaker 1: something like, you know, did you read all of those parts?
Speaker 1: And she says, yeah, I read those parts as if
Speaker 1: they're they're talking about something that Lee and Sam don't
Speaker 1: know about. Um. And it's like, in this weird way,
Speaker 1: she like curls under his wing to sort of to
Speaker 1: you know, to fool him, to to try to get,
Speaker 1: you know, find a chink in his armor. Um, and
Speaker 1: of course there's not one. It doesn't work. But but
Speaker 1: it's funny. Both of those women are so crafty, I
Speaker 1: would say, like cunning and crafty in the way that
Speaker 1: they are, you know, trying to to to beat Max.
Speaker 1: And the way Sam goes about it is like caveman. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean that as a pejorative. I mean
Speaker 1: like literally he's trying to smash his head with a rock. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the only thing he knows to do, because he
Speaker 1: just makes a series after series of missteps and dealing
Speaker 1: and trying to handle this is the husband, whether it's
Speaker 1: like as the lawyer. Yeah, well yeah, and maybe, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe his journey in the story is to get back
Speaker 1: to a fun to be a fucking caveman and like
Speaker 1: sort of reclaim his monkey male nous, you know, and
Speaker 1: like yeah, because he certainly doesn't have that all the
Speaker 1: way through the movie, you know, No, And then uh,
Speaker 1: Sam or not Sam? I can't remember Jessica Lange's character name,
Speaker 1: Yeah Lee Man that monologue at the end when she's
Speaker 1: change handcuffed to the thing and breaking down and saying
Speaker 1: the things that you know, will you just do those
Speaker 1: things to me and not her? It's it's like, I
Speaker 1: used I love this movie in college. We watched it
Speaker 1: a lot, and I saw it many many times back
Speaker 1: then that this is the first time I've seen it
Speaker 1: in many years, and certainly since I've been a father
Speaker 1: and maybe even a husband. But that ship wrecked me
Speaker 1: this time scene Jessicaaling, it's so good. She should have
Speaker 1: been nominated I'm so mad that she did. Juliet Lewis
Speaker 1: was to her credit, which is great, nominated for an
Speaker 1: Oscar for Supporting Actress, and lost to Mercedes Rule for
Speaker 1: Fisher King, which is another favorite performance of mine. So
Speaker 1: it's really hard to and awards are all dumb anyway,
Speaker 1: but just the acting in this movie across the board
Speaker 1: is just amazing. And she's sort of and Jessica Lank
Speaker 1: sort of pathetically pulls at the strap or not the strap,
Speaker 1: but like sort of the top of her shirt as
Speaker 1: this like kind of like pathetic or Loren like, please
Speaker 1: do this with the you know, and she kind of
Speaker 1: refers back to the time when she was putting on
Speaker 1: lipstick after she and Salmon made love and she was
Speaker 1: looking out at this you know, this blue screen Max Katie.
Speaker 1: But I want to I want to talk about one
Speaker 1: thing that I was blown away by this when I
Speaker 1: saw it a couple months ago, and this time too,
Speaker 1: is the speed of the narrative. And I wrote this down.
Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, I paused and rewound and
Speaker 1: I wrote this all down. So this is what we
Speaker 1: know in six minutes. We know about the existence of
Speaker 1: Cape Fear being a dreamy dangerous place. We know that
Speaker 1: Max Katie has been released from prison, and he's not
Speaker 1: an idiot because he read all his books. You know that, Yeah, alread.
Speaker 1: And we know that Danny relates more to Graciela the
Speaker 1: housekeeper than she does her mother or family. We know
Speaker 1: that Lee is a graphic designer who loves her dog
Speaker 1: more than her daughter. And in yeah, definitely, and in
Speaker 1: my opinion, you know, she the fact that her character
Speaker 1: or is this artsy smoker. To me, it also tells
Speaker 1: me that she doesn't want to be a wife or
Speaker 1: mother anymore. Yeah. And then we set up Sam as
Speaker 1: a lawyer who traffics in a world of privilege and
Speaker 1: favors because he gets the judge to push the alimony
Speaker 1: hearing of Fred Thompson's daughter mh. And finally we get
Speaker 1: a taste of Katie in a small way, terrorizing the
Speaker 1: family at the movie theater watching Problem Child. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean one of the great scenes that silhouette man in
Speaker 1: those that'sh my bikini lighter, that big humorously fat cigar. Uh.
Speaker 1: There's so many and I don't know de Niro's really
Speaker 1: as our most actors. And I'd love to get your
Speaker 1: perspective on this too. When it comes to picking props
Speaker 1: and wardrobe and stuff like that. I know that he
Speaker 1: is meticulous and known for like trying on d jackets
Speaker 1: until he finds the right one. Like what is that
Speaker 1: like for you as an actor when you get into that, Um,
Speaker 1: it really is. I mean it really depends on whether
Speaker 1: or not you're Robert de Niro. Um, like having the
Speaker 1: opportunity to kinding the power to hopefully you have a director, um,
Speaker 1: hopefully of a director and a costume designer and a
Speaker 1: makeup department who's able to collaborate and kind of confident
Speaker 1: enough to collaborate. And you know, sometimes you walk into
Speaker 1: a situation where they're you know, they're hemming and halland
Speaker 1: and they kind of want to give you a little
Speaker 1: bit of of room, but they basically have all your
Speaker 1: clothes picked out right, And for me, I just want
Speaker 1: someone to say like, hey, dude, um, you know this
Speaker 1: is what I've got picked out, So can we talk
Speaker 1: about this instead of kind of like letting you you know,
Speaker 1: kind of letting you go a little bit and coming
Speaker 1: up with ideas that you know they're going to shut
Speaker 1: the door on. It's like just yeah, just fucking tell me.
Speaker 1: You know, they had this idea that actors are this
Speaker 1: artie FARTZI a lot who can't you know, who are
Speaker 1: too sensitive and can't take you know, can't take decisions
Speaker 1: or can't take Um yeah, I can't take notes. Um,
Speaker 1: but I just don't, you know, I don't feel that way.
Speaker 1: You know. If I feel like somebody is not going
Speaker 1: to collaborate, I just won't do their movie. Um. But
Speaker 1: it it it's really hit or miss, depending on who
Speaker 1: you're working with. And it really sucks because most of
Speaker 1: the time they want they cast you because they want to, um,
Speaker 1: kind of dress you in the clothes of the movie
Speaker 1: they last saw you in. Oh interesting, because they cast
Speaker 1: you as that guy, right, And so I end up
Speaker 1: wearing the same brown shoes every fucking movie I do.
Speaker 1: Really Yeah, But then you have people like Jane Campion,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I'm like, you know, like
Speaker 1: in clothes I've never worn before or period obviously exactly,
Speaker 1: but who can see who can see past? You know,
Speaker 1: the last character you played is getting in that wardrobe.
Speaker 1: Is that a real important thing to you or is
Speaker 1: it just kind of part of everything? If it's specific enough,
Speaker 1: absolutely okay. Yeah, and if it's a period piece ship man,
Speaker 1: it like it does the acting for anything. Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: And apparently he apparently DeNiro was like working out, you know,
Speaker 1: at night, and they shot all the stuff where he
Speaker 1: takes his shirt off towards the end of productions so
Speaker 1: he could be as Max cut yeah, lowest b m
Speaker 1: I or something. Dude, I remember seeing this in the theater.
Speaker 1: I think I probably did see in the theater in college.
Speaker 1: Um in that first reveal of him in the cell
Speaker 1: when he's got that long, slick back hair and his
Speaker 1: body is just chiseled out of fucking stone. With those tattoos, man,
Speaker 1: and that back tattoo with that big cross, it's like
Speaker 1: intimidation overload right off the bat and just so effective.
Speaker 1: And it had to be that way and the and
Speaker 1: it was sort of like pre everyone has a tattoo,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah yeah, and for like the shocking shocking
Speaker 1: level of tattoos. Yeah yeah, and and for too like
Speaker 1: X youth group, you know, church youth group kids. All
Speaker 1: those Bible verses were like extra but yeah, they hit
Speaker 1: me and you probably harder, just like the Exorcist hit
Speaker 1: me and you harder. You know whoa like this is
Speaker 1: this is really not what my mom wants me to
Speaker 1: be near. Uh yeah, he was just crazy. Let's talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about and you know, we can jump
Speaker 1: all over the place, but I would like to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about Scorsese's methods here and uh, just
Speaker 1: what a wild movie he made with the um with
Speaker 1: with the changing the film stock to the to the negative,
Speaker 1: and then these washes of color and then from negative
Speaker 1: back to color, and those sequences where it would just
Speaker 1: sort of flow and drift back and forth, and blue
Speaker 1: screen and diopters and jump cuts and unmotivated camera and
Speaker 1: also everything is in it, like he really didn't hold
Speaker 1: anything back. Well, I was thinking to myself, like, this
Speaker 1: is a movie that celebrates the fact that it's a movie.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a pulpy, over the top, neo noir cartoon.
Speaker 1: And if people watch it trying to you know, trying
Speaker 1: to watch like a super super serious, you know, tight
Speaker 1: you know, suspense thriller, well this isn't this isn't bad.
Speaker 1: It's not super serious, you know, it's sort of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not even reality tethered almost like I haven't here
Speaker 1: Somewhere in my notes it's a real movie movie. It's
Speaker 1: got this it's got this heightened sense of reality, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like real life. It feels just off.
Speaker 1: It feels like a bad dream. Yeah. I mean in
Speaker 1: in the way that he when they do the strip
Speaker 1: search scene, you have these like sort of like Nazi
Speaker 1: adjacent tattoos. You know, he's got these these thunderbolts that
Speaker 1: are kind of like Stormtrooper thunderbolts, and then these obviously
Speaker 1: the Bible Old Testament tattoos. And then he takes off
Speaker 1: his pants and he's wearing like silk bikini briefs the
Speaker 1: d skin. That was such an interesting choice, you know,
Speaker 1: Like sometimes I talked to filmmakers and directors, you know,
Speaker 1: we're making something and I'm telling them, like, guys, let's
Speaker 1: go for broke, you know, like we can always take
Speaker 1: something out, we can't put anything in, Like let's put
Speaker 1: everything in um And obviously for this one, they put
Speaker 1: everything in. You know. He celebrates the fact that it's
Speaker 1: a it's a movie movie. And I mean I look
Speaker 1: at it the same way that I look at at
Speaker 1: Lawrence Arabia. Like, to me, Lawrence Arabia as a cartoon.
Speaker 1: If I see it as a cartoon. I can really
Speaker 1: enjoy it if I'm picking through that, you know, if
Speaker 1: I've got Wikipedia open and I'm trying to fact check,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just, yeah, it's not that. Um. I
Speaker 1: think like that that opening uh sequence where it shows
Speaker 1: him in prison getting released from prison, you know, he's
Speaker 1: got nobody coming for him, and that shot of him
Speaker 1: leaving the prison with that storm coming in the background
Speaker 1: and he walked straight up to camera and basically, you know,
Speaker 1: that's the film school one on one thing where they're like,
Speaker 1: don't ever do that shot where you it's such a
Speaker 1: trophy like film student shot. But Scorsese did it, and
Speaker 1: you get the feeling it's just like he's laying it
Speaker 1: all out there right there with that shot. It's like,
Speaker 1: just buckle up everyone, because this is a monster movie
Speaker 1: and it's a little bit like this film I love
Speaker 1: called a Christmas Tale um uh, with kr Mastrianni and
Speaker 1: Katherine Denev and a whole bunch of other people. Um.
Speaker 1: And the guy are no depletion. I don't know how
Speaker 1: to say his last name, but that's what I think
Speaker 1: it is. He he right off the bat, he uses
Speaker 1: every filmic technique almost if to you know, almost as
Speaker 1: if to completely sort of level you in terms of
Speaker 1: your expectations at the table. Yeah. So if I could,
Speaker 1: if I do everything within the first five minutes, then
Speaker 1: you can't sort of bit or a moan about anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, like you could get up and leave
Speaker 1: right now if this isn't your bag. Yeah exactly. This
Speaker 1: is what we're gonna do here, everybody. And the differences
Speaker 1: is that these guys, you know, Freddie Francis obviously, but
Speaker 1: like these guys are doing this. You know, in film
Speaker 1: school they were like, make sure all your camera movements
Speaker 1: are motivated, you know, make sure you're lighting is natural,
Speaker 1: you know, like Sam and Lee are are Sam and
Speaker 1: Lee are having sex in that one scene and there's
Speaker 1: like the fire why are there fireworks? I don't know, Man,
Speaker 1: I thought the same thing. I never questioned it until
Speaker 1: last night or yesterday afternoon when I watched it. But man,
Speaker 1: it looks awesome, that does I mean I had of
Speaker 1: stand that it's July fourth or whatever there's that scene,
Speaker 1: but it's not July four on that day, right, And
Speaker 1: where are they they're living in and I know they
Speaker 1: shot it in Florida, but this is um just the
Speaker 1: setting of this film, the sort of low country of
Speaker 1: South Carolina. I know you're from the Carolinas, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure that and I know for a fact because we've
Speaker 1: talked about it, that that whole sort of low country
Speaker 1: outer banks see vibe is so appealing and so evocative
Speaker 1: and can be so creepy, and it's such a great
Speaker 1: setting for a movie like this totally. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: what obviously, it's what David Lynch locked onto in Velvet Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, he I mean, these these guys are using
Speaker 1: all the tropes, but the fact that they know what
Speaker 1: they're doing obviously Filma schoon mocker schuon mocker um legend. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, these people are doing all the
Speaker 1: silly things, but it's just that they really know what
Speaker 1: they're doing. You know, they're doing all the silly things,
Speaker 1: and and they're the asked at it, so they're kind
Speaker 1: of like they know all the rules so they can
Speaker 1: break them kind of thing. Yeah, she really she's the editor.
Speaker 1: For those of you who don't know, She's was scored
Speaker 1: Casey's editor for a long time and just a legend
Speaker 1: of the business and really had her work cut out
Speaker 1: for in this film, but also I imagine it was
Speaker 1: probably a lot of fun to edit this movie totally.
Speaker 1: I mean because because it's it's a fable m hm,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't you know, yeah, exactly, and I feel
Speaker 1: I mean exactly in the scene with Juliet Lewis yea,
Speaker 1: which is fascinating. Now when we're when we're living in
Speaker 1: sort of like the me to me too moment, how
Speaker 1: do you how do you create those electric um, you know,
Speaker 1: upsetting Yeah, you know, physical sexual moments as an actor. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there are ways to do that. But
Speaker 1: when when I was watching the scene again where I
Speaker 1: mean the whole point of that of that scene, the
Speaker 1: whole the reason why it's so electric is that obviously
Speaker 1: de Niro didn't tell you, Juliet Louis he was going
Speaker 1: to put his thumb in her mouth and he didn't know,
Speaker 1: no man, And she talks about that. I mean, first
Speaker 1: of all, that to one of the most you know,
Speaker 1: it's like for me, it's like fift very um u
Speaker 1: um disturbing and also sort of as an actor, like
Speaker 1: holy shit, how effective? Oh yeah, I mean that whole
Speaker 1: scene is I mean, it's one of the iconic scenes
Speaker 1: in movie history now, I think is that drama department scene. Um,
Speaker 1: she's so good in it, the way she plays that
Speaker 1: so innocently and so like the way I even noticed
Speaker 1: the way she after he kissed her. She was eighteen
Speaker 1: at the time of filming, obviously still very creepy stuff
Speaker 1: to do, but they and he looks young, super young, yeah,
Speaker 1: but looked fifteen or sixteenyears is what she played. Um,
Speaker 1: the way that after he kissed her. God, it still
Speaker 1: just gives me the chills thinking about that because it
Speaker 1: was so fucking creepy. Um, and he just bolts, And
Speaker 1: the way she played that that, yeah, unnerved high school
Speaker 1: like kind of looked around like did anyone just see that?
Speaker 1: Or what did I just do? And she ran out
Speaker 1: of there kind of upset but kind of thrilled. It
Speaker 1: was all there, man, and just like face acting. And
Speaker 1: the way she ran out of there, Yeah, her shoes
Speaker 1: were probably like pointed at each other. I think she
Speaker 1: like she like pulled her you know, her shirt down
Speaker 1: a little bit and yeah, that's you can't teach that.
Speaker 1: And it was so instinctual and in the in the
Speaker 1: in the DV extra, the DVD extras, Juliet Louis talks
Speaker 1: about that being like one of her most uh satisfying
Speaker 1: acting experiences, you know, I bet. And she just was
Speaker 1: really into the electricity of it, you know. And she
Speaker 1: was into the you know, without a net, noess of it,
Speaker 1: you know, and this idea that anything can happen, and
Speaker 1: and it did. Um. But you know, how do you
Speaker 1: how do you create that in a world of um,
Speaker 1: in a world of rightfully, in a world of consent,
Speaker 1: when we have to create moments of um of danger. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it would certainly be a much more controversial
Speaker 1: scene to even put in a movie these days, and
Speaker 1: a modern uh scene like that. The it was a
Speaker 1: different time. You know, the girl probably wouldn't put herself
Speaker 1: in that position rightfully. And but you know he had
Speaker 1: set it up all the night before he called her
Speaker 1: on the phone. Established that Bond made her laugh a
Speaker 1: little bit, kind of was like, I'll be there for
Speaker 1: you because I know your parents they don't get you.
Speaker 1: So it's all there. And I think that hits home
Speaker 1: of why Max Katie in this movie was so threatening
Speaker 1: was that he didn't get out of prison and go
Speaker 1: to Sam's office and shoot him in the head. He
Speaker 1: had this plan to terrorize this family. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: so much scarier than just getting out of jail and
Speaker 1: going in revenge killing your attorney. And he, you know,
Speaker 1: I was really struck this time around when uh, you know,
Speaker 1: when they talked about he has that line where he
Speaker 1: says to Sam, you're going to learn about loss, and
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this. So basically, all three of
Speaker 1: them lose something. Danny is going to is going to
Speaker 1: lose her ideal mother, which is Graciela. Lee is going
Speaker 1: to lose her ideal friend, which is Benjamin the Dog.
Speaker 1: And Sam is going to lose his ideal wife, which
Speaker 1: is Elina Douglas, his you know, his coworker. You know,
Speaker 1: we meet them. They're both wearing white, they both are
Speaker 1: sexually attracted to each other. They interested in the same things.
Speaker 1: They love racket ball, they love the law like well
Speaker 1: and it's light, it's fun. It's like this. His marriage
Speaker 1: at that point was this uh difficult thing where you know,
Speaker 1: you learned later. I love the way they pars out
Speaker 1: the backstory to like you can tell very early on
Speaker 1: that Lee has no respect for him in his work
Speaker 1: or as a man, or in husband and father. But
Speaker 1: you really don't kind of get wide. And they parsed
Speaker 1: it out later on in that great scene where you
Speaker 1: learned that he cheated years ago in Atlanta and that's
Speaker 1: why they left, and that's why they moved, and um,
Speaker 1: I think it was really smart to hold onto that
Speaker 1: fact a little bit and just show her her contempt
Speaker 1: that you know is there, but you're not quite sure why.
Speaker 1: And she says, you know, and she says, at the beginning,
Speaker 1: in that first six minutes, she has you know, she
Speaker 1: reveals um these interesting kind of you know, she reveals
Speaker 1: something about Sam where you know, they're talking to you know,
Speaker 1: Danny is like, oh, you should have punched that guy,
Speaker 1: and Lee says, yes, Sam, you know how to fight dirty.
Speaker 1: You do it, you do it for a living. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of little jabs like that. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: it's just the accumulation of those jobs are it's just
Speaker 1: it's just ridiculous. And the fact that he is so emasculated,
Speaker 1: And because he's so emasculated, I think it's right that
Speaker 1: he uses the rock at the end. You know, it's
Speaker 1: right that he you know, is that kind of primordial
Speaker 1: you know, avenger at the end, because all through the
Speaker 1: movie he's such a joke. You know, he's supposed to
Speaker 1: be this whip smart lawyer, but every time he turns around,
Speaker 1: his house is being infiltrated. And then when he when
Speaker 1: he goes on the attack, what happens. You know, Lee
Speaker 1: Heller he you know, um, you know Max Katie hires
Speaker 1: Lee Heller. He says, no, this is gonna be a
Speaker 1: conflict of interest. He says why. He's like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: Max Katie has employed me as his defense attorney. And
Speaker 1: he said, and every time, you know, like he hired
Speaker 1: he goes along with Joe Don Baker and he hires
Speaker 1: a couple of thugs to try to be you know,
Speaker 1: and that goes straight to hell. And that scene is great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that scene is such a such a tense scene because
Speaker 1: nulty he makes he's always just sucking up. Man, He
Speaker 1: makes so many mistakes. He shouldn't have been there to
Speaker 1: see it happen, but he does. He wants to see
Speaker 1: him get beat down. And then you know, Katie's superhuman
Speaker 1: at this point, he is a he is a monster
Speaker 1: because these guys, three guys beat him with chains in
Speaker 1: that steel bat uh over the head multiple times and
Speaker 1: he's still coming back and uh. The one scene that
Speaker 1: the one part of that scene that bothered me, that
Speaker 1: always bothered me was when he kicks that can, makes
Speaker 1: the noise and freezes and you know, could you be there?
Speaker 1: And he approaches and then the ending of that scene,
Speaker 1: I think there was no way out of it that
Speaker 1: made sense. So Didnio just goes, uh, fuck it, what's
Speaker 1: the matter if you do here? If you are here?
Speaker 1: And he walks a way right, and that that really
Speaker 1: bugged me because but then I started thinking last night,
Speaker 1: I was like, but how do you get out of
Speaker 1: that scene? Yeah? You can't. I mean I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: like if he came around the dumpster and uh, and
Speaker 1: it was revealed that Sam has sort of like scurried away,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of expertly scurried away. That wouldn't make sense,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't, but man, it would give it would give
Speaker 1: you know, it would really throw Sam's character a bone.
Speaker 1: You know. I don't know if that would be good
Speaker 1: or bad, but at that point he would feel like
Speaker 1: but maybe, you know, maybe at that point of the movie,
Speaker 1: he we need Sam to be as weak as possible.
Speaker 1: You know, he's chugging, he's borrowing Lee's cigarettes, and he's
Speaker 1: chugging his wife's cigarettes at home and he's being forced
Speaker 1: to um to duck under all the windows. You know,
Speaker 1: we're not supposed to stand up dad, right, exactly, And
Speaker 1: in fact, I was noticing last night there's um there's
Speaker 1: a scene the first sort of it's an early first
Speaker 1: long scene in between Katie and Sam when Max is
Speaker 1: in his uh Mustang and he talks about um. You know,
Speaker 1: Sam offers him money. He says, one of my dollars,
Speaker 1: and then Max does the math and realizes that it's
Speaker 1: like ten bucks a day. Oh, he just solely eviscerates him, right,
Speaker 1: And and it's funny through that whole scene. Behind behind
Speaker 1: Sam's head is the word discount on that store. There's
Speaker 1: a story. Yeah, there's like a banner for a store
Speaker 1: and it just says something something discount. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: no accidents, no, not at all. These people that Yeah,
Speaker 1: this this Scorsese team, these people are not you know,
Speaker 1: even if it's not conscious, these people are not making mistakes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting that. And I think the only bone that
Speaker 1: Sam finally gets from from Lee, from Jessica Lang is
Speaker 1: it after they had been through everything and they were
Speaker 1: finally on the boat. She has not built him up
Speaker 1: at all or given him any breaks about anything, not
Speaker 1: that he deserved it. Uh is when he says that
Speaker 1: he's going to go fishing the next day and she goes,
Speaker 1: and it's a really great character moment. She says, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, we got enough food to last us a week.
Speaker 1: Why are you going to do that? And then she
Speaker 1: kind of catches herself and she goes because you know
Speaker 1: that she knows that he needs to catch the fish
Speaker 1: to provide for the family, like he's a frontiersman, and
Speaker 1: she goes, I think that'd be really nice, and that
Speaker 1: one little moment, man, she gives them and the whole
Speaker 1: fucking movie, and it's just so key to me that
Speaker 1: she felt the need to, like, like, man, I've been
Speaker 1: beating this guy up. We he has literally been beaten
Speaker 1: up over the course of this movie, and uh, I've
Speaker 1: got to give him some shot of self esteem, even
Speaker 1: if that's just sure, her husband go catch the fish,
Speaker 1: you know, and she you know, like she he did
Speaker 1: betray her for sure, And obviously I'm not advocating infidelity,
Speaker 1: but the Trees is, like, I think, after a certain
Speaker 1: period of time, like he doesn't deserve it in the
Speaker 1: sense that she's destroying herself in the process. If you
Speaker 1: can't truly forgive, then you should get divorced, right then
Speaker 1: she needs to get the funk out. But she's you know,
Speaker 1: she's kind of she's ruining herself by staying there in
Speaker 1: this awful situation. And and you're right, as far as
Speaker 1: character development goes, she needs to throw him that bone
Speaker 1: because we have to see them. There has to be
Speaker 1: a glimmer of hope at the end um And it's
Speaker 1: interesting because all these trappings of suburbia, all these trappings
Speaker 1: of you know, professional success, and you know, all these
Speaker 1: you know, friends, family, whomever, everything gets stripped away, and
Speaker 1: they're they're just laying in the mud on the on
Speaker 1: the you know, on the river's edge, you know, and
Speaker 1: the rain is sort of like completely fogging and drenched
Speaker 1: Sam's glasses, and they're kind of, you know, they're kind
Speaker 1: of like this family trio at the most you know
Speaker 1: most in the most you know, molecular sense, and they
Speaker 1: have to start, you know, start over. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if you saw that the DVD extras, but um
Speaker 1: Scorsese talks about that scene. There's a shot of Lee
Speaker 1: after she's been you know, she and Danny have been
Speaker 1: sort of thrown from the boat and they I guess
Speaker 1: they've sort of swam swam, swam swam, they swimmed um
Speaker 1: over to the short of the river, the river bank,
Speaker 1: and Sam and Max are kind of in the last
Speaker 1: throws of their their manly battle, and um, once everything's
Speaker 1: sort of sort of done, and Katie goes down with
Speaker 1: that piece of the boat, or we think he goes
Speaker 1: down at the piece of the boat. Yeah. Um, Well
Speaker 1: she's left in the mud and she's she's there by
Speaker 1: herself and in the shot she picks herself up out
Speaker 1: of the mud. Yeah. Um. And in the DVD extras
Speaker 1: they were explaining that that was actually a reverse shot.
Speaker 1: In reality, she was laying herself down into the mud.
Speaker 1: But Scorsese wanted this just a very slight, sort of
Speaker 1: uncanny kind of other ness to that to that shot.
Speaker 1: And I went and rewatched it and I was like, man,
Speaker 1: these fucking guys, it's so subtle, but like they just
Speaker 1: you know, and who knows if that was a choice.
Speaker 1: I'm always fascinated, like, is that a choice in pre production?
Speaker 1: Is it a choice in production or is it a
Speaker 1: choice in post? I bet it's post. It might be posted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think I think, you know, I think you know,
Speaker 1: if you've got all the people firing on all the cylinders, Um,
Speaker 1: these things don't have to be conscious. You know, they're
Speaker 1: just making decisions and later on they will mean things,
Speaker 1: but in the moment we don't know what they mean.
Speaker 1: But they're the right thing to do. Yeah, there's also
Speaker 1: a there's also a moral question at the heart of
Speaker 1: this story that when I saw this in college twelve times,
Speaker 1: I just never even thought about it. But there is
Speaker 1: a real moral question about a defense attorney burying a
Speaker 1: report of promiscuity. I mean, that's the whole central focus
Speaker 1: of this movie is the fact that Max Katie went
Speaker 1: to prison for fourteen years and maybe didn't have to
Speaker 1: because there was a report that showed that the victim,
Speaker 1: his rape victim had been I think, had like two
Speaker 1: or three, at least two or three sexual partners in
Speaker 1: the last month. And it's you know, Joe Don Baker
Speaker 1: or not Joe Don Baker, who was the Fred Thompson.
Speaker 1: Fred Thompson is the one. It's like, you buried the
Speaker 1: report the report. Yes, I can't stand it. I feel
Speaker 1: like I feel like the reason why is because I
Speaker 1: feel like this, you know fiction, Uh, this fictional girl's
Speaker 1: promiscuity obviously has zero to do with whether or not
Speaker 1: she deserves to be raped. Well, of course, and that's
Speaker 1: what Nick Nulty finally gets to say that at the end.
Speaker 1: He's like that just because she was promiscuous doesn't mean
Speaker 1: she deserved what you did to her. But Fred, can't
Speaker 1: you know, Fred Thompson, can't you know he can't sort
Speaker 1: of at least say to him, like, man, that was
Speaker 1: you fucked up? But I get it. No, you're right.
Speaker 1: He comes down on a really hard moral judgment and
Speaker 1: for as a really moral question, there really is no
Speaker 1: question obviously, except for the fact that you are entitled
Speaker 1: due process in this country and an attorney to represent
Speaker 1: your best interests, like no matter what, like he does
Speaker 1: go against that code rightfully, So I would have done
Speaker 1: the same thing. But it is interesting to kind of
Speaker 1: pick pick out a little bit. It's it's, um, it's
Speaker 1: funny how how Max, as capable and intelligent and cunning
Speaker 1: as he is, he doesn't latch onto the idea that, um,
Speaker 1: there's a gray area there. He only he's so, you know,
Speaker 1: intensely focused on how he had been wronged. But he
Speaker 1: you know, of all the things he understands about human nature,
Speaker 1: he doesn't understand the part about human nature where he thinks,
Speaker 1: wait a second, this is actually something that someone would do. Um,
Speaker 1: But of course that's you know, that's because he was
Speaker 1: probably you know, he's on that side of the he's
Speaker 1: on that side of the gun. Yeah. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: good point. Um. It's such a diabolical plan too that
Speaker 1: de Niro has. It's you know, he starts with the
Speaker 1: dog and then he moves on to the mistress in
Speaker 1: one of the most brutal assault scenes in movie history. Yeah,
Speaker 1: hard to watch. And Eliana Douglas is so great. I
Speaker 1: aways been such a big fan of hers, and she's
Speaker 1: really great in this movie. But the scene in the
Speaker 1: bar beforehand is just like panic inducing almost because you
Speaker 1: know what he is, she doesn't know what he is,
Speaker 1: and she's drinking at the bar and you see it
Speaker 1: coming and it's just it's a tough scene to watch.
Speaker 1: But he moves to the mistress, then to the daughter,
Speaker 1: then to the wife, uh, and then ultimately to Nulty.
Speaker 1: Is his He's he's going to be the final guy
Speaker 1: because he wants him to see all this other ship happening.
Speaker 1: And he gets, you know, he he gets, He gets
Speaker 1: in there in such I mean, it's funny that there's,
Speaker 1: you know, underneath all this wild sort of neon colored
Speaker 1: bright poppy. You know, the costume choices are so corny
Speaker 1: and ridiculous, you know, his de Niro's stupid mirrored glasses
Speaker 1: and his stupid white little cat Danish hat. These are
Speaker 1: ridiculous things on the top, and then below it's a
Speaker 1: pretty brilliant efficient script where you know, he gets, you know,
Speaker 1: he gets through to Um to Lee by explaining how
Speaker 1: Um Sam had betrayed them both and so they're both wrong.
Speaker 1: They're both on this side of Sam and obviously Um.
Speaker 1: He locks into Juliet Louis's you know, her distance that
Speaker 1: she feels and the feel, the fact that she feels
Speaker 1: so misunderstood by her family. And even when they're trying
Speaker 1: to you know, even when Sam is trying to relate
Speaker 1: to protect to um, you know, to protect Danny, there's
Speaker 1: that scene that just kills me. He goes into her
Speaker 1: room and she's I think she might be talking on
Speaker 1: the phone. She hangs up the phone, and she's wearing
Speaker 1: these like short I no, no, actually she's wearing her underwear.
Speaker 1: She's in her underwear, says come on, you know, not
Speaker 1: a kidneymore. And she's popping gum and being a teenager
Speaker 1: or whatever. And he goes in there and it asks her, um, well,
Speaker 1: I can't remember the reason he went in the first place.
Speaker 1: But they get onto the topic of you know, did
Speaker 1: he did he touch you? Yeah, and she kind of
Speaker 1: brushes him off and he comes closer and he's like no, no,
Speaker 1: did did did he touch you? And and it sort
Speaker 1: of builds to the point where Sam has got his
Speaker 1: hands on her mouth and he's crushing her head into
Speaker 1: the bedboard or the headboard of the bed and and
Speaker 1: then he finds himself and he kind of backs up
Speaker 1: a little bit. I think he tries to like fix
Speaker 1: her hair maybe, and he's like sorry, so, you know,
Speaker 1: and he leaves the room. And then she screams like
Speaker 1: get out of here, get out of here. And this
Speaker 1: family like it can't I mean, can it just keeps
Speaker 1: on stepping and ship these people? You know, Sam especially
Speaker 1: he just can't get anything right. Well, yeah, because he's
Speaker 1: he treats her like she's dumb and a kid. And
Speaker 1: because there's that one scene where he and Lee start
Speaker 1: to really go at it and he sees Danny walk
Speaker 1: up the stairs and he's like, oh, everything's fine, honey,
Speaker 1: and she's you know, that's the worst parent moves because kids,
Speaker 1: fucking no. Man. I grew up in a house with
Speaker 1: parents who were in a twenty five year fight, and like,
Speaker 1: kids aren't stupid, and to have parents be like, Oh,
Speaker 1: everything's okay, that's just that's just uh, it makes it
Speaker 1: makes it all worse. And yeah, that's what it totally is.
Speaker 1: That's for them. And that's when de Niro sweeps in
Speaker 1: and gives her agency and treats her as an adult,
Speaker 1: and that's how he charms her to begin with. On
Speaker 1: that first the phone call and then when he's hanging
Speaker 1: outside down like a vampire bat. Yeah, I noticed like
Speaker 1: a vampire bat. It was such a cool decision to
Speaker 1: put him in those gravity boots or whatever. And he,
Speaker 1: you know, in the in the Alien and Douglas scene,
Speaker 1: and I wonder what Scorse's dating Bilean and Douglas at
Speaker 1: the time. They either were dating at the time or
Speaker 1: they started dating after this. It was right around that
Speaker 1: time though, I think because you know, in that scene
Speaker 1: at the bar, Um, for some reason, it's super creepy
Speaker 1: that Max is always drinking water. Yeah, oh yeah, oh
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. He's like the ev On in the in
Speaker 1: the Mustang and everything. Well, because he's so disciplined, he's
Speaker 1: got the discipline to read those teach himself to read
Speaker 1: and to do the ten thousand set ups a day,
Speaker 1: and to not drink and to always be clear headed. Uh.
Speaker 1: I also think that was a really clever set up
Speaker 1: with Um that he bites her cheek in that brutal scene,
Speaker 1: because that comes back later. That's what partially what makes
Speaker 1: the scene with Juliette louis so unnerving when he starts
Speaker 1: kissing her, and I remember the first time I saw it,
Speaker 1: I was like, he's gonna bite her tongue off her tongue,
Speaker 1: yeah exactly, And this is so effective and he doesn't,
Speaker 1: which is a great little filmmaker trick to build up
Speaker 1: something that doesn't really happen. And in both of those scenes,
Speaker 1: Um not in the not in the body and ilan
Speaker 1: his face scene, which I think it's something they weren't
Speaker 1: going to do and they threw it in there. And
Speaker 1: that was you know, that's something that I I'm always
Speaker 1: pushing on directors. I'm like, guys, you know, like this
Speaker 1: is like this is you know, we don't have a
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars. Let's put let's throw everything at this.
Speaker 1: You know, like the only thing we have is the
Speaker 1: ability to to make this script and do things narratively
Speaker 1: that no one's ever seen. We don't have David Fincher
Speaker 1: money to make this, you know, and you know, and
Speaker 1: Emmanuel Lubski kind of you know, visual masterpiece. So you've
Speaker 1: got to throw that silly ship in there and and
Speaker 1: if it doesn't work, then take it out. But you're
Speaker 1: asking about the costume and the costume hair and makeup choices.
Speaker 1: And in the scene with Aleana at the bar, and
Speaker 1: also in the scene um, the Big Bad Wolf scene
Speaker 1: and the and the school auditorium, Denira looks really good,
Speaker 1: like he's he's kind of feathered his hair back. His
Speaker 1: hair looks it's yeah, and he's you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know what he's. You know, he's I don't gotten a
Speaker 1: bit of an extra tan, but he's just he's really
Speaker 1: handsome in those scenes, um, and that you know that
Speaker 1: that kind of bait and switch where he says, um,
Speaker 1: you know I actually was. I was in a Georgia
Speaker 1: State penitentiary and you're like, oh, you know that that
Speaker 1: jig is up and he talks about and anti you know,
Speaker 1: anti nuclear man. Yeah. Yeah, he saved a little old
Speaker 1: lady basically shoved around by a cop. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: he popped and wanted the game three years. So like
Speaker 1: brutally manipulative and brilliant. And as soon as that happened,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, ship man, Yeah. And as soon as
Speaker 1: that happens, Elean is like, um, I'm drinking sea breezes.
Speaker 1: I hope you can afford them. Yeah, she's she's in
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. The one thing that I wondered about
Speaker 1: yesterday that I had never considered is what a big
Speaker 1: risk that was for him, because he, by all intents
Speaker 1: and purposes, should have been back in prison for a
Speaker 1: very long time after that brutal assault, and he took
Speaker 1: a really big risk on her, banking on her not
Speaker 1: saying anything, and Nulti kind of mentions it later like
Speaker 1: I think he knew that she knew the system and stuff,
Speaker 1: but still a very very big risk that he took
Speaker 1: by going that far. You know, they could have fixed that.
Speaker 1: You know that they could have fixed that a little
Speaker 1: bit by saying, you know, he knew that she wasn't
Speaker 1: going to testify, that she was gonna, you know, that
Speaker 1: she was going to get on the stand and get grilled,
Speaker 1: and we could say, you know, he could say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know what she her response would be, and
Speaker 1: then Sam's response could be, well, he's also a fucking
Speaker 1: monster who likes to rape, you know, like you know,
Speaker 1: there's you know, like it's you know, Katie is cold
Speaker 1: and calculating and pays for everyone's lunch when no one
Speaker 1: knows he's there. But also he's a guy who you know,
Speaker 1: raped and assaulted people, and you know, regardless of however
Speaker 1: many crunches he does every day, there's still part of
Speaker 1: him that that's that big bad wolf. That's that, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you're right, like in the story,
Speaker 1: you know, in the script, it's a little bit flimsy.
Speaker 1: I guess when he says, oh, he made he took
Speaker 1: this big risk because he absolutely knew that she wasn't
Speaker 1: going to testify. I mean, yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit flimsy right there. But in, you know,
Speaker 1: but sort of beyond the script and me thinking about him.
Speaker 1: I like the fact that he's you know, he just
Speaker 1: can't help himself. Yeah, he is a monster. And uh
Speaker 1: you mentioned that buying people. They're paying for their dinners
Speaker 1: and stuff. It reminds me of that scene with Joe
Speaker 1: Don Baker where he was tailing him and he paid
Speaker 1: for his lunch or whatever, and what a great scene
Speaker 1: that was because Joe Don Baker. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: such a movie about the male identity and masculinity and
Speaker 1: what that must mean. Because Nulty is trying to be
Speaker 1: this protector. He thinks he needs a gun. He doesn't
Speaker 1: even know how to. He's so ill equipped to protect
Speaker 1: his family and he knows it. Max Katie is the
Speaker 1: quote unquote real man. Jodan Baker is a real man
Speaker 1: and he's always got it figured out. He you know,
Speaker 1: that scene with he and Katie after that lunch is
Speaker 1: so great where he's trying to tough guy him and
Speaker 1: Katie's just like, fuck you man. He's like, you don't
Speaker 1: know who you're talking to, asshole, and he says something like, um,
Speaker 1: oh you know, were you a cop or maybe you
Speaker 1: couldn't hack it as a cop. That's the line that's
Speaker 1: where he completely fucking cuts his achilles. It's funny Joe
Speaker 1: Don Bakers, ever since The Living day Lights, I've always
Speaker 1: seen his act his you know, I've seen that actress
Speaker 1: like somebody who's who's big and blustery. But he's he's
Speaker 1: not gonna win, you know, essentially, he's um, he's not capable.
Speaker 1: I mean, we haven't even talked about the greatest sequence,
Speaker 1: you know that that that concludes with Sam slipping in
Speaker 1: you know, Graci ellis blood. Yeah, so all right, let
Speaker 1: me start at the beginning there then, because that scenes
Speaker 1: ties into what I was gonna say about Joe Don
Speaker 1: Baker is he always thinks he's got it figured out.
Speaker 1: At first, it's we can hire a couple of guys,
Speaker 1: you won't be hearing from him anymore after this. They're
Speaker 1: also ill equipped to deal with this monster. And then
Speaker 1: when he starts out that sequence where they're doing the overnight,
Speaker 1: Sam fakes like he's going out of town, so the
Speaker 1: house is empty supposedly or not empty, but he's not there,
Speaker 1: and he ties that the bear up with the fishing line. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's like, I don't know if the Holy ghost
Speaker 1: is trying to get in here. I got my little
Speaker 1: six shooters, you know, snubnosed cops special. I mean not
Speaker 1: just that, but they and they used the Teddy Bear essentially,
Speaker 1: they're they're, um, they're strangling the Teddy Bear with monofilling
Speaker 1: that line. Oh, I didn't even really ever think about it.
Speaker 1: And you know that foreshadows the piano wire. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but he just thinks he's got it all under control,
Speaker 1: like every man in this movie thinks they have it
Speaker 1: all under control, and Katie's really the only one with
Speaker 1: any control ever, and uh yeah, it culminates, and you
Speaker 1: know they set up of course, after seeing this multiple
Speaker 1: times and you see the housekeeper earlier on, you're like,
Speaker 1: it looks a lot like DeNiro from behind. Yeah. You
Speaker 1: know what's funny, Chuck, I realized when I was watching this,
Speaker 1: I mean I watched it again last night. But um,
Speaker 1: Graciela is the second character that we see on film.
Speaker 1: Oh at the very beginning, yep, right wind right in,
Speaker 1: Katie walks into the camera in that kind of cheeseball
Speaker 1: film school thing that they tell you not to do,
Speaker 1: but it's perfect. Um. Uh, you know there's a scene
Speaker 1: where we you know, we go and we established the
Speaker 1: outside of Um. I might not have this sort of
Speaker 1: visually verbatim, but we established the outside of the Bowden house.
Speaker 1: And then the car pulls up and there's actually a
Speaker 1: shot on the on the driveway, and Graciela's foot steps
Speaker 1: into the shot and the camera um and I can't
Speaker 1: remember it either, tilts up. I think it booms up
Speaker 1: to her face as she looks up um at the house.
Speaker 1: And then Danny comes out and says, come with Sta. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but like, but Graciela looks up at the house a
Speaker 1: couple of beats too long, and the camera stays on
Speaker 1: her a couple of beats too long, almost as if
Speaker 1: to say that this is going to be a huge
Speaker 1: character in this movie, which I mean kind of she is,
Speaker 1: but not really. And I just thought, man, that is
Speaker 1: that's that's really ballsy to to put a lot of
Speaker 1: weight on on this character. And obviously he's trying to
Speaker 1: really wait this, you know, he's trying to really heighten
Speaker 1: the stakes. So you've got this character in a single,
Speaker 1: and not just a single, but a single that that
Speaker 1: booms up. And then we've got Benjamin a single of
Speaker 1: the Dog underneath Lee's drafting table. And then, um, it's
Speaker 1: not exactly a single, but when we meet Ileana Douglas,
Speaker 1: it's in that really kind of handheld crazy you know,
Speaker 1: fast cutting, right, and so we see all these characters
Speaker 1: in you know, isolated singles, you know, like this movie
Speaker 1: is saying, like you watch these people, you know, watch
Speaker 1: these two people in this dog and obviously we don't
Speaker 1: know this at the time, but they're sacrificial lambs, all
Speaker 1: three of them, and each person is I mean, if
Speaker 1: you think about it, I'm just I'm just thinking about
Speaker 1: this now, Like I'm thinking about the reaction of Danny
Speaker 1: when Gracila dies, she freaks the funk out, um, and
Speaker 1: and Lee's reaction to Benjamin dying and she and and Bowen.
Speaker 1: Sam says, well, I told you not to let him out,
Speaker 1: and she says I didn't fucking let him out, and yeah,
Speaker 1: she freaks, she freaks out about that. I mean again,
Speaker 1: all rightfully, all appropriately. And then of course Sam, it's
Speaker 1: funny his reaction to Lean and Douglass rape and assault,
Speaker 1: um is you know, I mean, obviously I think he
Speaker 1: has a lot to um, you know, I think he
Speaker 1: feels very deeply about her being hurt. But you know,
Speaker 1: we see um each character is kind of silent response
Speaker 1: to the thing they truly wanted being you know, obliterated. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Uh And obviously you know he's hanging on.
Speaker 1: He's establishing the uh was it Graciana, Gracila Gracilla. He's
Speaker 1: establishing her early on too, just because that pays off later.
Speaker 1: I mean, when de Niro's dressed up as her, so
Speaker 1: he really got to at least know what she looks
Speaker 1: like from behind, and what her hair looks like and
Speaker 1: what she's dressed like. And that's that's one of the
Speaker 1: great reveals man in in movie history. When she turns
Speaker 1: around and it's him. Uh, it's just like I got
Speaker 1: chills in my arms now thinking about it. And I've
Speaker 1: seen the movie a dozen times and it gets me
Speaker 1: every single time. And the setup with the piano wire
Speaker 1: being gone, it's all just expertly like puzzled together. And
Speaker 1: to me, it's better than the face skin reveal of
Speaker 1: Sounds of the Lambs. Oh God, that's so good too. Though,
Speaker 1: you know it's time for me I'll take I think
Speaker 1: it's because of the hair. But we should tell the
Speaker 1: listeners that So Joe Don Baker has this big plan
Speaker 1: to absolutely catch you know, catch backs Katie. And the
Speaker 1: whole plan is that they're going to use the family
Speaker 1: as bait to lure Katie in. So Joe Don Baker,
Speaker 1: in his kind of like blustery over confident way, strings
Speaker 1: a fishing line all over the doors and windows because
Speaker 1: he thinks he's going to you know, um uh, he's
Speaker 1: going to see the bear move because the line, the
Speaker 1: fishing line is wrapped around the bear's uh neck. So
Speaker 1: he sits there all night, drinking his you know, scotch
Speaker 1: and pepto bismol mixture, holding his gun. And the whole
Speaker 1: idea about the scene is that he um uh. He
Speaker 1: goes in the kitchen, he's you know, we see Graciela
Speaker 1: and her pink you know maid's outfit and her black hair.
Speaker 1: He says something to Graciela, and of course Graciola turns
Speaker 1: around and it's you know, it's revealed to be Bob
Speaker 1: and Nero or Max Katie, and of course he gets
Speaker 1: He strangles the fucking shit out of Joe Don Baker
Speaker 1: with the piano wire and Joe Don Baker falls to
Speaker 1: the floor. Um Max, well, he the gun goes off,
Speaker 1: he shoots himself. Oh yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: where all the blood came from, right, And de Niro
Speaker 1: kind of guides the in the struggle, He kind of
Speaker 1: guides the gun get back to him, yeah, in Joe
Speaker 1: Don Baker's direction. And then of course the Boden's wake
Speaker 1: up and they find you know, like, um uh Max,
Speaker 1: Katie's gone, They find Joe Don Baker, um, they find Graciela.
Speaker 1: And in the melee of trying to call the cops
Speaker 1: or call the ambulance or whatever, Sam slipped and falls on,
Speaker 1: you know, on the blood in this pool of blood
Speaker 1: that's covering Linolia. One of the great decisions in any
Speaker 1: movie ever was to not just have that reveal and
Speaker 1: and that be what the scene is, but to have
Speaker 1: him slip in the blood and then Lee come over
Speaker 1: trying to help him out and falling all over in
Speaker 1: the blood. It's a very kind of goofy slapstick thing,
Speaker 1: but it's so visceral in like, um hard to watch
Speaker 1: because you're you're just they're discovered in this fresh warm blood.
Speaker 1: Now all of a sudden, it turns into a fucking
Speaker 1: horror show. It does, and this is the pith. I
Speaker 1: think this is the power of the auto director. Um.
Speaker 1: These days, everything is so watered down because we have
Speaker 1: to you know, movies are so expensive. We have to
Speaker 1: reach like the biggest broadest fan base. We have to
Speaker 1: your ages twelve through fifty, and we can't be specific,
Speaker 1: and we can't be um. We can't be dangerous or
Speaker 1: evocative or um. We can't take chances, and that right
Speaker 1: there is an insane chance. You know. I just saw
Speaker 1: you know, another round last night, the Matt Nicholson that
Speaker 1: won the Oscar. Oh yeah, good, oh man. I had
Speaker 1: the best time watching it. I thought it was amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then obviously Thomas Fincherberg is another autour. He's and
Speaker 1: he's saying, no, I'm going to do this, and the
Speaker 1: choices are really specific and either you like it or
Speaker 1: you don't. And the ability in movies these days to
Speaker 1: either like something or not is getting, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's sort of getting farther. It's it's rarer these days.
Speaker 1: And most of the time their response is but you know,
Speaker 1: I don't want, I want, oh I hated it or
Speaker 1: I loved it. But so many films these days are
Speaker 1: just kind of they're trying to succeed by not failing,
Speaker 1: right and by not offending or not offending, not failing
Speaker 1: you know, um, you know I see on movie sets
Speaker 1: all the time, you know, certain producers that are not
Speaker 1: good producers. They're so concerned that something will be too weird,
Speaker 1: or somebody won't understand something, or we need to over
Speaker 1: explain something, or the dialogue needs to be too much exposition.
Speaker 1: And and the thing, once you do that, you lose
Speaker 1: all the moments that you and I are talking about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that blood slip scene. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: a movie made up of very iconic images and disturbing
Speaker 1: images that you're looking at with your eyes. I mean
Speaker 1: there's a lot of disturbing themes, of course, and themes
Speaker 1: and and lines here and there, but it's really some
Speaker 1: of these images that really are what stick with you
Speaker 1: and to me. There there's that one, and the other
Speaker 1: one that really gets me every time is that reveal
Speaker 1: that he's fucking strapped underneath that jeep charity. Oh God,
Speaker 1: such a great reveal because they're finally multi finally makes
Speaker 1: one good decision, which is to get on that houseboat
Speaker 1: and go out on the river. Which is it's a
Speaker 1: creepy looking place and that's the whole deal with the
Speaker 1: Cape Fear River and she talks about that, you know,
Speaker 1: and everything like that, and it's called Cape Fear. Uh.
Speaker 1: But you're ostensibly ostensibly safe out on a boat on
Speaker 1: the water because there's nothing around you. You can see everything.
Speaker 1: He can't get to you there, but he's strapped underneath
Speaker 1: that Cherokee and it's just it's just one of the
Speaker 1: great reveals. And this is when and it really is
Speaker 1: and this is when um Bowden Sam is trying to
Speaker 1: is really trying to take some forward, you know, like
Speaker 1: makes him forward. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that was another thing,
Speaker 1: you know, they there was some discussion, apparently some discussion
Speaker 1: on set about whether or not that would be possible.
Speaker 1: And you can tell in the shot that they lifted
Speaker 1: the jeep cherokee a little bit. Yeah, they lifted the
Speaker 1: suspension but yeah, and apparently they tried it with a
Speaker 1: stunt man and it was it worked, and then they
Speaker 1: went for it. But like that's that part, you know
Speaker 1: that reveal, um the blood slipping in the blood, you know,
Speaker 1: biting half of Iliana douglass face off and sticking his
Speaker 1: thumb in Juliet Louis's mouth. These are all images, Yeah,
Speaker 1: these are all um, these are all beats in the
Speaker 1: script that in my experience, I've seen nervous directors and
Speaker 1: nervous producers want to, uh, you think very hard about
Speaker 1: maybe losing. Yeah, it's to this or to that or
Speaker 1: to this or somebody would be offending. Frustrating. It's so frustrating,
Speaker 1: especially when you know, would Cape Fear still be a
Speaker 1: great movie without those things? It would except you know,
Speaker 1: except it's like a meal, you know, a meal that
Speaker 1: you and I both love. Slowly, great ingredients are being
Speaker 1: taken out of this gorgeous meal that we're ready to eat,
Speaker 1: you know, this filmic meal, and after a while, you know,
Speaker 1: you lose those those images and those ingredients and the
Speaker 1: specificity of these movies are are lost in the process. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you think of anyone who loves this movie,
Speaker 1: if you said, name the first five things that you
Speaker 1: think of in Cape Fear, of the first five images,
Speaker 1: it will be the thumb in the mouth, probably slipping
Speaker 1: in blood, maybe the reveal of hanging underneath the car.
Speaker 1: But you know, those are the moments that like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't lose that ship. Yeah, and and and if
Speaker 1: they truly remember the movie you're talking about, if they
Speaker 1: truly remember k Fear, they will say exactly the thumb
Speaker 1: in the mouth as the one. Yeah, like that to me,
Speaker 1: that's like the the takeaway and then obviously remember the things,
Speaker 1: but like that's maybe the face biting that really, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's so disturbing and it was so over the top,
Speaker 1: and he the way he spit it out to it
Speaker 1: was but yeah, I would say the thumb in the mouth,
Speaker 1: that's the most disturbing moment in the movie because there's
Speaker 1: so much tension there. You have no idea what he's
Speaker 1: got up as sleeves. And further down the line, Um
Speaker 1: is Max Katie his his burned and deformed face on
Speaker 1: the on the house boat. And one thing I love
Speaker 1: about Danny's character is that Danny is a deadbeat. She's
Speaker 1: she's a pot smoke like she's not I think, I
Speaker 1: actually haven't. I started watching the original and didn't like
Speaker 1: it and stopped it, and I've never Yeah, the kid
Speaker 1: in that movie is sort of like kind of the
Speaker 1: stock character of like you know, the kind of the
Speaker 1: um you know, kind of the good kid and Danny
Speaker 1: is such a deadbeat. You know, she smokes pot. She's
Speaker 1: kind of dumb. Like her mom asks her, what, you
Speaker 1: know the girls in the parade who are dancing by
Speaker 1: with their um, you know, swinging their batons and everything else. Um,
Speaker 1: are those? Is that what they're called? There's batons you
Speaker 1: swing between your fingers. Yeahs batons? Right? Okay? The drill
Speaker 1: team right right, like silver a silver shaft and two
Speaker 1: white balls on the end. Yeah right, Yeah, didn't sound right.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm gonna have to. I'm I'm trying to.
Speaker 1: I need to get up on all this daughter ship. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But but you know, Lisa as to Danny, Oh, Danny,
Speaker 1: you could have you could have done that. Why didn't
Speaker 1: you go out and try out for that? And she goes,
Speaker 1: I don't know, And she's got nothing. You know, she's
Speaker 1: got nothing. She goes to this drama class. She doesn't
Speaker 1: know what she's doing. You know, she's constantly like you know,
Speaker 1: complaining to her friend on the phone because she's in
Speaker 1: this you know, she's in this you know WorldWind of
Speaker 1: a you know, shitty family life. But then in the end,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, the most um, the most sort of
Speaker 1: exacting violent, capable moment of attack. It comes from her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's the one that slips the you know, the the
Speaker 1: lighter fluid in her skirt or something wherever she hides it.
Speaker 1: And actually when she's locked in that little yeah, she's
Speaker 1: locked in, the first thing she does is light a
Speaker 1: match and starts looking around. She she picks up that
Speaker 1: screwdriver or whatever, and it's like thumbs it. It's like,
Speaker 1: now it's too dull, throws that away and then gets
Speaker 1: at ronson lighter fluid and stuffs it in her the
Speaker 1: front of her her shorts. And uh, like I said,
Speaker 1: she's the one from the beginning that starts to try
Speaker 1: and manipulate him. She's thinking faster than anyone else on
Speaker 1: that boat else. And uh, you know, of course he
Speaker 1: lights that cigar. That's you know, you don't question stuff
Speaker 1: like that in a movie. It's like, well, what if
Speaker 1: you never let that cigar. It's like, well he did,
Speaker 1: so that's all that matters. Another pit he had another
Speaker 1: great payoff because he does it so many times in
Speaker 1: the movie. Uh in man, when she lights him on
Speaker 1: fire and he jumps out there, like, no part of
Speaker 1: you seeing that movie thinks that that's the end of
Speaker 1: the movie. Like, you know that that's not going to
Speaker 1: be it, And you're right. When he comes back and
Speaker 1: his face and his hairline is receded by several inches.
Speaker 1: You know, he's got a lot of more forehead in
Speaker 1: that scene because his hair has been singed back. It's
Speaker 1: a wide shot, you know. Danny's on the table in
Speaker 1: the boat, yeah, and Kate, he's leaning up against the
Speaker 1: sink and then she squirts that the lighter fluid across
Speaker 1: the room. He goes up in flame. And if I'm
Speaker 1: not mistaken, Danny says, I got him, I got him,
Speaker 1: I got him, And I mean, you're right, Like, here's
Speaker 1: this kid who's basically sort of a dullard the entire movie.
Speaker 1: She's kind of like roaming around, sort of kind of
Speaker 1: being upset and sort of being slow. And here, yeah,
Speaker 1: here she is on this you know, in this one
Speaker 1: moment of crisis, and she's like she turns into the ninja. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's when the movie, like from that point on,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a movie that escalates and escalates
Speaker 1: and escalates towards like genre style stuff. And then when
Speaker 1: he comes back on that boat, that face, it is
Speaker 1: all bets are off. It is a full on horror
Speaker 1: freak show for the last eight minutes or whatever is
Speaker 1: left in the movie while the storm rages outside. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: And there's this when she talks about cape Fear in
Speaker 1: you know, there's that, you know, Juliet Lewis, Danny is
Speaker 1: looking straight at the camera at the beginning, you know,
Speaker 1: she talks about cape Fear and at the end it
Speaker 1: pays off because it book ends where she's talking in
Speaker 1: front of the class. Um, but we see cape fear.
Speaker 1: Is this like this place of dread because she talks
Speaker 1: about it and then it's gone. We don't know anything
Speaker 1: about kape Fear. We don't hear about it. We don't
Speaker 1: know anything about it until the end and it's back again. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, Danny is you know, she definitely becomes the
Speaker 1: ninja in that scene. Lee tries to kind of kind
Speaker 1: of you know, yeah, misdirect him with her sexual prowess
Speaker 1: or whatever. Um. And of course Sam wants to, you know,
Speaker 1: take the rock and bash his head in. And it
Speaker 1: should be noted that Sam doesn't. He doesn't, he doesn't
Speaker 1: hit his head, but you know, the tide sort of
Speaker 1: drags Katie's body out right right as the rock comes
Speaker 1: down and he misses mm hm. But I have always
Speaker 1: had a problem with the speaking in tongues. Oh really yeah,
Speaker 1: Well all right, hold on a second, let's I want
Speaker 1: to get there. That's at the very end. Let's um,
Speaker 1: let's talk about that ridiculous and ridiculously great in every
Speaker 1: way sequence where the boat caves in on itself. It's
Speaker 1: that row. The miniatures are horrible. It's amazing. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is sort of a B movie in some ways,
Speaker 1: and a sort of an homage to Hitchcock and B
Speaker 1: movies and in movie movies. So I don't think it
Speaker 1: was trying to be like the most realistic thing, but
Speaker 1: I mean I still think that part looks amazing, and
Speaker 1: and then it's a movie when when they're getting to
Speaker 1: the miniatures, it's a movie and I love it. But
Speaker 1: when Katie gets back on finally at the end, and
Speaker 1: he's putting Sam on trial and breaking the fourth wall
Speaker 1: and looking at the camera and you know, acting as
Speaker 1: if the camera is the judge and that he is
Speaker 1: the litigator, that's when the movie is just goes to eleven.
Speaker 1: It's just off off the rails crazy at that point,
Speaker 1: h and it culminates in the speaking in tongues. I
Speaker 1: think I think it was all BC movie build up
Speaker 1: to that moment, and you still have a problem with it.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, the good thing that those guys do
Speaker 1: is that they kind of they set everything up at
Speaker 1: the beginning, and you know, they give you a movie
Speaker 1: right in the first six minutes. I mean, look, they
Speaker 1: give in the first six minutes, they give you a
Speaker 1: lighter of a girl's boobs, you know, like the lighter
Speaker 1: that that Katie uses to light his you know, it's
Speaker 1: like a naked chick lighter, you know, from a gas
Speaker 1: station in It's ridiculous. So you know, I mean once
Speaker 1: they do that, yeah, they could go anywhere they want. Um.
Speaker 1: And definitely by the time they get into the you know,
Speaker 1: the kind of the fake trial uh a scene, um,
Speaker 1: you know, script wise, you know, all the other stuff
Speaker 1: that's going, you know, going bananas, you know, with your
Speaker 1: production design and your editing and your this athletic camera
Speaker 1: and the film backwards and forwards, all that stuff. By
Speaker 1: that time we were already there. So the table has
Speaker 1: already been set for what becomes, in my mind, the
Speaker 1: kind of the most extreme extreme script moment, which is
Speaker 1: the fucking which is this crazy trial? Um? Oh man?
Speaker 1: And when he grabs Sam by the back of the
Speaker 1: hair and you know, and when Sam is handcuffed behind
Speaker 1: his you know, his hands are handcuffed behind his back,
Speaker 1: and he grabs him by the back of the hair
Speaker 1: and pulls him through that window and Nick Nolty, Nick
Speaker 1: Nolte just bounces on all this teak you know this
Speaker 1: like teak furniture. I just thought, oh my god, man,
Speaker 1: these guys are But again, you know the miniatures which
Speaker 1: which they shot in England, Um, they're terrible. They look terrible,
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean it's fun though, that's and I
Speaker 1: think the fact that they're embracing this artificiality, that's. Those
Speaker 1: are the movies I love. I love the Cook, the Thief,
Speaker 1: his wife and her lover. You know, I love all
Speaker 1: this stuff that is. You know, I'm not interested in um,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not always interested in realism. I don't
Speaker 1: want to look out my window and see a movie.
Speaker 1: I want to like look into somebody's imagination and see
Speaker 1: that movie. Yeah. It is interesting though in that trial
Speaker 1: scene is kind of over the top as it is.
Speaker 1: That's where you kind of get that key moment where
Speaker 1: Nulty finally says it, Yes, I buried the report because
Speaker 1: I mean that's where it's finally laid out there at
Speaker 1: the very very end of the movie. And you were
Speaker 1: my lawyer, you were supposed to represent me. Just because
Speaker 1: she was promiscuous doesn't mean she deserved to be raped.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's it. That's that moral quandary and
Speaker 1: a nutshell at the very end. Um. And you know
Speaker 1: that's just prior to the boat implosion. Uh. It also
Speaker 1: leads to the funny uh fight scene on the beach
Speaker 1: at the end when they're just slugging the ship out
Speaker 1: of each other. And one of my favorite lines still is, uh,
Speaker 1: I believe you're well within five yards, counselor I mean
Speaker 1: if you yeah, if you go back and you can't
Speaker 1: even I mean the half of Katie's dialogue you can't
Speaker 1: understand because of his accent, but yeah there, um yeah.
Speaker 1: His stuff with with Joe John Baker is, um, well,
Speaker 1: you've got me shaken all over. Yeah. And there's when
Speaker 1: when Sam comes across, he sort of bolts across the
Speaker 1: parade and grabs, you know, grabs Katie because Katie is
Speaker 1: looking at his wife. Um, uh. You know, at one point,
Speaker 1: Katie says, Um in his defense, he said, I ain't
Speaker 1: pranking on you. I'm not pranking on you. Like what
Speaker 1: the fuck? And when? Yeah, and when? And when? Sam
Speaker 1: is going nuts on this guy on Katie. There's this
Speaker 1: shot that I'll always remember. I don't know why, it's
Speaker 1: just buried in my consciousness, but there's a shot of
Speaker 1: this kid in on the float and they're recreating Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're recreating the exactly. So we're recreating the time life
Speaker 1: photograph of Iwo Jima and this one kid, you know,
Speaker 1: who's kind of he's he's meant to be staying completely
Speaker 1: still as the you know, the parade moves by. Um,
Speaker 1: Sam is going so nuts and so you know, he's
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, he's going so nuts there this kid
Speaker 1: breaks his Ewo Jima character and just looks down at
Speaker 1: him as it is. It's like what what? Why are
Speaker 1: we on this kid? You know, I remember that shot too.
Speaker 1: Every time I see that movie, I'm like, why did
Speaker 1: he insert that shot? It's really interesting thing to leave
Speaker 1: in there. And there's that great part too. Or Deniel
Speaker 1: is like, watch my arm, watch my arm, it might
Speaker 1: be broken. Yeah, it's like Sam is backfired again, like
Speaker 1: everything he does just turns to ship and the revolts
Speaker 1: are the roles are constantly being reversed where he's the
Speaker 1: bad guy completely and and I think I need to, um,
Speaker 1: I need to wrap it up because my wife needs
Speaker 1: to leave the house. But I want to say that
Speaker 1: it's those moments of um, those out of context moments,
Speaker 1: those moments where we don't understand. Those are a lot
Speaker 1: of the moments that we remember forever and this and
Speaker 1: this constant push of you know that we're living in
Speaker 1: this like numbers world. You know, we're living in a
Speaker 1: world of algorithms makes sense and sort of a plus
Speaker 1: B equals sea world. And the truth is it's those
Speaker 1: those moments of uh, you know, complete randomness, you know,
Speaker 1: those moments that we truly don't have no idea why
Speaker 1: they left that s that kid in there. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, plenty of people saw the edit and they
Speaker 1: were like, what's what's the deal there? People are going
Speaker 1: to be confused, why could well that's a bad thing.
Speaker 1: And what I say to them, it's like, why is
Speaker 1: confusion a bad thing? This is a movie neo noir, crazy,
Speaker 1: big bad wolf movie, Like we shouldn't all be confused
Speaker 1: a little bit? Yeah, yeah, totally. Uh, I think we
Speaker 1: did it, dude, you think yeah. I mean it only
Speaker 1: had one or two more points, the weird stigmata christ
Speaker 1: figure stigma at the end that he washes his hands away.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how to went back that then. It
Speaker 1: also it also bugged me that he was washing his
Speaker 1: hands instead of immediately running and looking for his wife
Speaker 1: and daughter. Baby steps, baby steps, Sam will get there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I'm glad they didn't show them. You know, a
Speaker 1: worse a lesser director would have the last shot of
Speaker 1: the movie would have been the three of them living
Speaker 1: together with a new puppy that looks just like the
Speaker 1: old dog, living happily ever after somewhere. But he didn't
Speaker 1: do that. That's that's the trophy ending. He ended with
Speaker 1: Juliet Lewis with that great sort of book ended monologue
Speaker 1: about choosing life, and then in the film goes negative
Speaker 1: again and this is like we're out and she even
Speaker 1: says the end, I think, right, the fairy tale is over. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I just love that that a character that I
Speaker 1: just love that it's not Sam. Yeah, I love that
Speaker 1: it's not Sam. And it's not Lee and it's not
Speaker 1: Max Bookendy. This thing, it's it's kind of her story
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. It's kind of her story
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Yeah, good stuff, man, go Juliet.
Speaker 1: Thanks for doing this, and thanks for wedging this in
Speaker 1: and now we had a hard time with the scheduling,
Speaker 1: but I don't worry about it. As fun as I hoped.
Speaker 1: It would be a great movie. It's a great movie.
Speaker 1: And I really love to hear that baby a dad.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I gotta go be a dad. But I'll
Speaker 1: tell you one thing. It's really great to rewatch these
Speaker 1: things with movie Crush in mind, because it made maybe
Speaker 1: crush makes these things, makes me see them in a
Speaker 1: really brand new, kind of more analytical way. And I
Speaker 1: love it. It's fun. I'm glad you're enjoyed it. To
Speaker 1: my friend, I am buddy, all right, see you later.
Speaker 1: All right. I'm gonna go move to Cape Fear literally
Speaker 1: in about a month. Awesome, all right, thanks dude, see
Speaker 1: you man. Movie Crash is produced and written by Charles
Speaker 1: Bryant and Meel Brown, edited and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson,
Speaker 1: and scored by Noel Brown. Here in our home studio
Speaker 1: at Pontstey Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For i heart Radio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,