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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Brian Coburger now pointing the

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Speaker 1: finger at another home invader with a ski mask and

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Speaker 1: a knife. Coburger back in court as Idaho brings back

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Speaker 1: the firing squad. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Ranie's called and she was very frantic.

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Speaker 3: And she was asking me if I had talked to Kaylee.

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Speaker 3: Katie's follows directly, voice found circling Maddie.

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Speaker 2: Nobody's answering. It's ring ringing, Rightie ringing.

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Speaker 3: To return on the TV, and then we see live

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Speaker 3: news coverage and gives out on pat hero. Kaylee and

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Speaker 3: Maddie are both dead a quadrille homicide.

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Speaker 1: Idaho lawmakers so moved by the slaughter of four beautiful

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Speaker 1: University Idaho students they are bringing back the firing squad

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Speaker 1: is a potential first choice of execution and death penalty cases.

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Speaker 1: This as we learn that Brian Coburger's defense is actually

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Speaker 1: going to try pointing the finger at another masked home

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Speaker 1: invader with a knife.

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Speaker 4: Listen, Carl, where did you see this person?

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Speaker 5: I was asleep and then I woke up me and

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Speaker 5: it was just me and Sadie home at the time,

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Speaker 5: and we both lived on in the basement and my

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Speaker 5: door was closed. I heard my door open, and I

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Speaker 5: looked over and someone was wearing a ski mask and

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Speaker 5: had a knife like this, ok, And so I like

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Speaker 5: kicked the out of their stomach and screamed super loud,

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Speaker 5: and they like flew back into my closet and then

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Speaker 5: ran out my door and up the stairs.

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Speaker 6: That almost makesually think that somebody was specifically targeting that person,

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Speaker 6: you know what I mean, if they went to a

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Speaker 6: specific room and would know how to get into this place.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, did you just hear what this female

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Speaker 1: victim says? This was just a few months before the

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Speaker 1: deadly slang of four University Idaho's students, and the similarities

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Speaker 1: are overwhelming. Now, what's the defense going to do with this?

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Speaker 1: They're going to say, Oh, that guy, some of the

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Speaker 1: dude did it, and it's that guy, because look at

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Speaker 1: the similarities. Here straight out to Sidney Summer, joining us

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, the victim, the female

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Speaker 1: victim with another female roommate, asleep with a multi tiered

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Speaker 1: in a multi tiered structure, living down in the basement,

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Speaker 1: door close. All of the things I'm emphasizing right now,

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Speaker 1: Sydney are direct similarities to the Idaho slags. I heard

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Speaker 1: my door open, like the Idaho victims did. I looked over.

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Speaker 1: Someone was wearing a ski mask like allegedly Coburger, wearing

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Speaker 1: a mask. He had a knife like Coburger allegedly had

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Speaker 1: a knife. I screamed. They flew back and ran out

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Speaker 1: my door and onto the stairs like in the Idaho case.

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Speaker 1: The officer. It makes me think someone specifically targeting that person,

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Speaker 1: like they went to a specific room and would know

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Speaker 1: how to get into this place. Sydney, the similarities are stunning.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about the home invasion the other home invasion fancy.

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Speaker 7: You're absolutely correct, and this happened in the early morning

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Speaker 7: hours again, just like we saw over a year later.

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Speaker 7: Also in this area of Idaho and Washington. The houses

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Speaker 7: seem very similar. So these girls lived in a basement apartment.

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Speaker 7: It's kind of a weird unit. It's not like you

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Speaker 7: would just walk up to the front door and expect

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Speaker 7: a bedroom on the second floor. You know it's a basement.

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Speaker 7: So this video shows police searching this oddly built house.

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Speaker 7: You can see that basement door down there right there,

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Speaker 7: and there's windows all over this building in odd places.

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Speaker 7: It's extremely similar. For Nancy, it's.

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Speaker 1: Striking and you know what you just said, said that

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Speaker 1: striking a cord another court in similarities. And I spent

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Speaker 1: much of my career looking at prior transactions and comparing

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Speaker 1: them to the case in Chief in order to prove

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Speaker 1: to a jury modus operadi, method of operation, course of conduct,

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Speaker 1: how it was affected in that case directly matches how

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Speaker 1: it's affected in the Case in Chief, frame of mind,

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Speaker 1: and other words. Scheme coming in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 1: armed with a knife onto female victims, multiple victims in

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Speaker 1: the same multichurch structure with a face covering. It sounds

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Speaker 1: just like Coburger. Joining me right now is Chris McDonough.

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Speaker 1: You know him well, Director Coldcase's Foundation, former homicide detective

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Speaker 1: and has visited the crime scene multiple times. You can

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Speaker 1: see him as the star of the interview room on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: Chris McDonough, this is what I'm telling you, man. I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you either A that is Brian Coburger in the

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Speaker 1: other home invasion, or B the defense is going to

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Speaker 1: use the other home invasion as their defense, claiming that's

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Speaker 1: the guy that did it not Brian Coberger. Hey, Chris McDonough,

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Speaker 1: I want you to listen to more of this pullman

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Speaker 1: PD body cam as the responding officer is talking to

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Speaker 1: the victim. Listen.

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Speaker 5: Sure, that's the one thing I noticed. I couldn't say

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Speaker 5: for sure, but I don't think either really.

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Speaker 7: Side.

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Speaker 8: So you're saying, like a ski mask, any glasses?

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Speaker 5: Okay, it was a burgundy ski mask, so I think

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Speaker 5: they were wearing gloves.

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Speaker 8: So did you hear them say they.

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Speaker 1: Didn't say a thing? They didn't say anything.

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Speaker 8: Did they grunt or moan or exclaim or cry when

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Speaker 8: you kicked them?

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Speaker 2: Just silence?

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Speaker 1: Pay dirt, Chris McData. While right now Coburger is not

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Speaker 1: named as a POI suspect in any way in that

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Speaker 1: home invasion, the similarities, the similarities are overwhelming. Did you

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Speaker 1: hear that the purp not wearing glasses, wearing gloves? And significantly,

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Speaker 1: I'm when I have to shrink on this silent throughout

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Speaker 1: the attack, jump in, Chris.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, there's no doubt, Nancy, that those similarities have got

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Speaker 9: to be investigative considerations, especially after you know the brutal

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Speaker 9: murder here of the four college students and if this

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Speaker 9: is what we would call a pretty incident to that

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Speaker 9: particular you know, murder, then you know you're going to

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Speaker 9: have to start with those victims and kind of re

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Speaker 9: engineer it from there and canvas the neighborhood and then

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Speaker 9: see if you can match the similarities to the suspect

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Speaker 9: in custody ie allegedly Brian Colberger.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've said it over and over and over

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Speaker 1: that could this possibly be Brian Coberger's first offense? Do

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Speaker 1: you go from zero to one twenty mph overnight? Many

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Speaker 1: people argue, no, is this the smoking gun? According to

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Speaker 1: police right now, they're not saying Coburger had anything to

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Speaker 1: do with this previous home invasion. Listen to more of

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Speaker 1: that body cam.

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Speaker 8: So the windows come open, but there is no touch

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Speaker 8: marks on the glass, and like all the cobwebs are intact.

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Speaker 7: Anything.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, so maybe.

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Speaker 7: They just unlocked it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they don't be easier to get out of that way, Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Just go up the stairs and night. Yeah, I guarantee

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Speaker 7: you they were not expecting that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, right there even more similarities. Did you hear that

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Speaker 1: there's no touch marks, All the cobwebs are intact. So

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Speaker 1: this person ends up going up the stairs, just as

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Speaker 1: in the Idaho Sleighs. As of right now, we don't

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Speaker 1: have any indication of any fingerprints or touch marks. And

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Speaker 1: there's more. Listen, I'm wondering why they didn't come in

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Speaker 1: the room.

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Speaker 8: Because, yeah, so we were talking about that and may

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Speaker 8: so she thought you had a television.

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Speaker 2: I did my teacher that I cad from outside your room,

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Speaker 2: So maybe.

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Speaker 8: They might knew that. Between between the light and the sound,

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Speaker 8: they probably assumed that you were away.

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Speaker 1: It was a week significant. You hear the victim talking saying,

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Speaker 1: I wonder why they didn't come into my room. My

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Speaker 1: room is closer. We had the same issue in the

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Speaker 1: Idaho Slighs, Chris McDonough, because you had uh Dylan Mortenson downstairs, remember,

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Speaker 1: and many people wonder, well, why didn't you go into

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Speaker 1: that room first? Same thinking. These two perps have the

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Speaker 1: same thought process going why didn't they go into that door?

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Speaker 1: And then also you hear the victim's roommates saying, I

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Speaker 1: was wide awake. I was just lying in bed. Did

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Speaker 1: he know I was awake? Clearly, the state believes that

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Speaker 1: Brian Coberger had been monitoring the victims' movements. Did he

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Speaker 1: know they had just ordered food, and that some of

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Speaker 1: them may be between a sleep and a wake in

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Speaker 1: that groggy state. It's a fingerprint ID Chris McDonough.

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Speaker 9: Nancy, and I think, you know, one of the most

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Speaker 9: interesting similarities to this situation is obviously the fact that

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Speaker 9: the perpetrator had a knife, and that's a very personal

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Speaker 9: titled weapon that would be utilized. But there's going to

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Speaker 9: be another hurdle though, that they're going to have to overcome.

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Speaker 9: That's going to be obviously the physical description of the

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Speaker 9: suspect and the fact that the victim attacked the suspect

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Speaker 9: and he cowered and ran. Somebody who has the frame

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Speaker 9: of mind, you know, to commit a homicide straightforward would

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Speaker 9: have taken that as a control issue and he probably

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Speaker 9: would have overwhelmed that victim.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 8: Two.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, a renow psycho analyst out

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Speaker 1: of the LA jurisdiction, author of a deal Breaker. You

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Speaker 1: can see her now on Peacock, she said, doctor Bethany

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Speaker 1: Marshall dot com, doctor Bethany in your world. These similarities

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Speaker 1: are startling. And again police are not saying that coburger

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Speaker 1: affected this home invasion just a few miles away from

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Speaker 1: the University of Idaho slave a few months before the SLAGH.

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Speaker 1: But look at the similarities, doctor Bethany, and in your world,

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Speaker 1: I find it very significant that both perps remained silent. Again, Bethany,

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Speaker 1: there's only two choices, Bethany. Now you're coming at it

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Speaker 1: from your angle. I'm coming at it from mine. What

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Speaker 1: if anything is probative to me as I prepare a

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Speaker 1: case like this number one, either it is Coburger that

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Speaker 1: performed that home invasion, or it's not Coburger and the

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Speaker 1: defense is going to use it as one of their

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Speaker 1: chief defenses. Some other dude did it, and that's the dude.

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Speaker 1: What about both perps remaining silent?

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Speaker 10: Nancy, serial killers practice for years before they work up

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Speaker 10: the nerve to commit a crime. Okay, So Cochburger's whole

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Speaker 10: academic career was a form of practicing. He took crime classes.

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Speaker 10: He was a you know, it's like a teacher's aid

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Speaker 10: in a crime class. He went to bars, he hit

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Speaker 10: on women. Serial killing is an obsession. So Coburger probably

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Speaker 10: thought about this four months years. It was an obsession.

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Speaker 10: He in his mind thought out what kind of a

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Speaker 10: house he wanted to enter, probably spent hours trying to

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Speaker 10: find victims. He liked certain personalities, certain relationship configurations within

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Speaker 10: the house. Perhaps in his fantasy life, he was going

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Speaker 10: to go to the second floor and both crimes, kill

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Speaker 10: two victims, and then come back to to the ones

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Speaker 10: who are more accessible so they could hear the screaming

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Speaker 10: of the other victims as an act of sadism. The silence,

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Speaker 10: I think is that he was preparing himself for the

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Speaker 10: crime in respect to becoming emboldened the first time the

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Speaker 10: purp ran away, if that was Coburger. The second time,

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Speaker 10: he was probably prepared to be kicked, so he got

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Speaker 10: his courage up to commit the crime in a second,

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Speaker 10: second location.

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Speaker 2: I don't like he did a white color crime.

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Speaker 1: This isn't a.

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Speaker 11: Whole colored crime.

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Speaker 1: This is people you work your.

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Speaker 2: Whole life to get them to go to college and

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Speaker 2: then they get killed.

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Speaker 4: Whether leave that night.

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Speaker 11: This guy like he just like traded insider trading with

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Speaker 11: his own company stocks.

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Speaker 1: It's not white Cole will another home invasion just a

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Speaker 1: few months before the four Beautiful University, Idaho students were

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Speaker 1: slaughtered in their own beds have anything to do with

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Speaker 1: the Coburger death penalty case. This as Idaho plans to

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Speaker 1: bring back the firing squad as a primary means of execution,

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Speaker 1: hopefully just in time for Coburger's conviction and sentencing. We'll see.

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Speaker 1: And what does Colt mom Lori Valow have to do

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Speaker 1: with Brian Coburger? Plenty, all of this with the backdrop

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Speaker 1: of Coburger's defense claiming the death penalty is inhumane because

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Speaker 1: it forces Coburger to wait on death row and worry. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to that, but first to this home invasion

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Speaker 1: that occurred just a few months before the quadruple slagh. Now,

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Speaker 1: look again at this bodycam video we obtainfle Pullman p D. Listen.

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Speaker 5: Sure that's the one thing I noticed. I couldn't say

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Speaker 5: for sure, but I don't think either really side.

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Speaker 8: So you're saying, like a ski mask in your grasses?

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Speaker 5: Okay, sure it was a burgundy ski mask, so I

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Speaker 5: think they were wearing gloves.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, So did you hear them say?

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Speaker 1: They didn't say a thing? They didn't say anything.

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Speaker 8: Did they grunt or moan or exclaim or cry when

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Speaker 8: you kicked them? Just silence?

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Speaker 1: Silence? Joining me? Is Scott Iiker founding member of the

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Speaker 1: FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team, Scott, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with US police officer from her homicide to take dove

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Speaker 1: with Norfolk, Virginia PD. Scott. The likelihood that two perps

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Speaker 1: will enter a multi tiered structure with multiple female victims

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Speaker 1: inside around the same time of the night, a few

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Speaker 1: miles apart, a few months apart, with the same INMO

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Speaker 1: with a face mask, with a knife. What are the odds? Right?

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Speaker 1: I know you're not a statistician, so let me talk

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Speaker 1: to you about the fact that neither of these perps

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Speaker 1: that we know I've yet left behind fingerprints or really

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Speaker 1: any DNA other than what we know about on the

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Speaker 1: knife sheath. How likely is that? I like er, if

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Speaker 1: it's not the same person.

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Speaker 4: I think it is the same person. I agree with

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Speaker 4: Betany that you know Cyria Tailers. I got to practice

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Speaker 4: their situations. This was an attempt, he got boiled by kicked,

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Speaker 4: and then all the similarities that you guys just talked about.

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Speaker 4: It really brings that as a detective and homicide detective

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Speaker 4: and an FBI agent, we look for those similarities between

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Speaker 4: crimes to connect them, and this is definitely one of

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Speaker 4: those that seems just like a prior attempt that was spoiled.

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Speaker 4: Thank God to.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kennel Crowns joining a Chief Medical Examiner Tyrant County.

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Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth Esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of

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Speaker 1: Medicine at TCU. Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: You know I have tried, investigated and investigated countless homicide.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many. Usually knifing someone to death

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Speaker 1: is not the mode of death. It's not the ceod

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Speaker 1: cause of death. There, I would say more gunshot wounds

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Speaker 1: and more asphyxiations, more vehicular manslaughters. Knifing someone to death

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Speaker 1: I think is a more unique cood.

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Speaker 12: What do you think, well, I would agree with Thatually,

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Speaker 12: what we see with homicides are gunshot wounds, specifically nine millimeters.

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Speaker 12: With stabbings, you have to get up close and personal.

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Speaker 12: It's usually a domestic or someone that knows the victim

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Speaker 12: or you know and has been discussed serial killers. Strangulations again, too,

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Speaker 12: are not as common as stab wounds. So you know,

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Speaker 12: when you look at the causes of death, gunshot wound

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Speaker 12: far out weighs.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying asphyxiation is more or less common? Because

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Speaker 1: in my expert in my experience, knife attacks are less

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Speaker 1: common than asphyxiation. When you look at all of the homicides,

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Speaker 1: you've got bludgeoning, which by far beats out knifing, You've

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Speaker 1: got asphyxiation, which I believe beats out knifing, and of

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Speaker 1: course gunshot wounds as you let off with that by

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Speaker 1: far beats out knifings.

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Speaker 12: So my personal experience, I've seen, of course the majority

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Speaker 12: of gunshovelans, but I've seen more stabbings than strangulations, because

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Speaker 12: strangulation you really got to get up in there and

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Speaker 12: to strangle them. So it's so a weapon as usually

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Speaker 12: trumps out using your bare hands. So I would say

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Speaker 12: stabbing is not as common, and a spree stabbing as

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Speaker 12: you're seeing in this type of situation is very uncommon

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Speaker 12: where they stab multiple individuals at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I want to take that pathology and apply it

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Speaker 1: to the current case and the current similar transaction we're discussing,

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Speaker 1: which would be the previous home invasion. And again Coburger

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Speaker 1: not named as a POI or suspect in that case,

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Speaker 1: but either he did it and he is the similar

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Speaker 1: or he didn't do it. And the defense is going

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Speaker 1: to use it against the state. What I'm getting at,

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Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crown's is the likelihood of a spree stabbing

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Speaker 1: where a goes into a multieer structure around the same

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Speaker 1: time of the night, a few miles apart, planning to

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Speaker 1: attack more than one female with a knife. I find

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Speaker 1: that highly coincidental.

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Speaker 12: I agree with you, it's very odd, and it's I

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Speaker 12: think he got spooked and then moved on to the

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Speaker 12: next house that he had been casing, you know, you

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Speaker 12: kind of look at For example, BTK was another criminology student.

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Speaker 12: He had one of his stories as he was casing

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Speaker 12: a victim and something occurred and he got spooked. He

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Speaker 12: moved on and then waited and came back again. So

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Speaker 12: if it could be the similarities are very early similar.

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Speaker 12: He could have just gotten spooked by that first person.

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Speaker 8: And moved on.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace joining me is a veteran

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Speaker 1: trial lawyer, Brian Stewart Attorney Parker maconcle Brian, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. Brian, Can we talk very quickly

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Speaker 1: about the introduction under the Constitution of what we call

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Speaker 1: similar transactions in this case, really a fingerprint crime. The

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Speaker 1: only difference is those two female victims didn't lose their lives.

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Speaker 1: Everything else is startlingly similar. What do you think, Well.

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Speaker 11: It seems entirely, you know, speculative, what to whether or

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Speaker 11: not this person is Brian Kohlberger. But it's likely the

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Speaker 11: same person. But there's no question the defense would want

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Speaker 11: to use this to undermine the prosecution's case, saying that

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Speaker 11: there's someone else out there. But in my mind, it

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Speaker 11: shouldn't come in because it's speculative, and I think that

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Speaker 11: the prosecution is going to have a good argument to

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Speaker 11: keep it out.

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Speaker 1: To Sidy Suner joining me, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter,

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Speaker 1: can we talk about the home invasion? Okay, how far

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Speaker 1: away was it from the quadruple murder scene?

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Speaker 7: Nancy minutes, ten minutes. And another thing that I wanted

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Speaker 7: to mention, the victim in the home invasion was also

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Speaker 7: a waitress, so she was no longer a student, but

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Speaker 7: she was waitressing and still living with roommates who were

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Speaker 7: in college. I found that also really striking that some

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Speaker 7: of the Idaho college victims a year later waitresses at

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Speaker 7: a restaurant. So that's an interesting possibility. And as you

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Speaker 7: were talking through your theories. I came up with one

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Speaker 7: of my own.

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Speaker 1: What if Brian.

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Speaker 7: Koberger took inspiration from this? What if he did is

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Speaker 7: research and it's trying to pass as this original home

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Speaker 7: invader with a knife.

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Speaker 1: You know, Sydney, do you remember when we were in

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Speaker 1: Idaho and we went to the Great Restaurant where at

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Speaker 1: least one of the victims, where others hung out there,

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Speaker 1: and we watched people coming in and now there's a

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Speaker 1: steady flow of college students, non college students, and we

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Speaker 1: watch and got that horrible eerie feeling that Coburger had

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Speaker 1: come in and out of the restaurant as he watched

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Speaker 1: the victims. And now you're telling me that in the

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Speaker 1: other home invasion the victim one of them was a waitress.

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Speaker 7: That is absolutely correct. She worked at Zoey's in Pullman, Washington.

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Speaker 7: It's a cafe, so similar restaurant. Again, it's very striking.

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Speaker 7: I mean, Scott Iiker, don't you see where this is going.

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Speaker 7: The defense is going to win either.

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Speaker 1: Way on this because they're going to say, ay, it's

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Speaker 1: not him number one, and that's the guy that did it.

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Speaker 1: And if Coburger did do the other home invasion. It

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Speaker 1: can't be brought in as a similar transaction unless it

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Speaker 1: can be proven he did the other home invasion. So

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Speaker 1: the state right now is hogtie on this.

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Speaker 7: I agree.

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Speaker 4: It sounds like because of the short time that home invasion,

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Speaker 4: you guy comes in, he kicks him, he falls down

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Speaker 4: and leaves, But he probably didn't leave like a knife

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Speaker 4: like he did in this in the quadruplehamicide. So what

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Speaker 4: evidence do they have to show that that prior incident

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Speaker 4: was was Coburg. That's going to cause a problem, I think,

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Speaker 4: and I think both ways. Hopefully it can't be brought

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Speaker 4: in from either side.

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Speaker 11: The person who did did drun looked at one of

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Speaker 11: the victims and said, I'm here to help me. If

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Speaker 11: that's not malice, that's the most type of evil that

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Speaker 11: you could ever hear.

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Speaker 1: It shouldn't be rewarded with the.

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Speaker 2: Suit and a first cherka every time.

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Speaker 4: That's why that's wild.

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Speaker 1: And somehow Cale mom Laurie Valo rears her ugly head

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Speaker 1: in the middle of all of this. What does she

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Speaker 1: have to do with the Brian Coburger quadruple murder prosecution?

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Speaker 1: Here she is in court.

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Speaker 13: Listen nation, So the defense we keep filing motions for

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Speaker 13: discovery since we don't know if it's some kind of

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Speaker 13: strategy of the state that they're holding back this actual

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Speaker 13: evidence of dispirit conspiracy and hopes that what the defendant

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Speaker 13: won't have time to prepare proper defense against the evidence

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Speaker 13: that comes forward at the last minute. This court has

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Speaker 13: denied every motion the defense has filed to acquire this evidence.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute, what's she climbing a mental defect?

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Speaker 1: Did you hear her reeling off the law and the

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Speaker 1: facts she's representing her case in another murder related case.

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Speaker 1: We got that from our friends at Eastidaho News dot com. Yes,

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Speaker 1: somehow Calman Lauri Valo has insinuated herself into the Brian

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Speaker 1: Coburger case listen.

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Speaker 14: Coberger's defense appears to be taking a page out of

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Speaker 14: Lorie valoed Dabell's trial, where Judge Stephen Boyce removed the

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Speaker 14: death penalty after prosecutors failed to turn over thousands of

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Speaker 14: documents and hundreds of hours of jail phone calls until

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Speaker 14: three weeks before the trial. But the key difference between

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Speaker 14: the cases that val day Bell insisted on a speedy trial,

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Speaker 14: while Cober has waived that quick timeline with more than

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Speaker 14: six months remaining until trial, Judge Hibler has plenty of

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Speaker 14: other remedies available before taking such a drastic measure.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Sydney Sumner Crime online dot Com investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter Sydney, what does call it, mom, Lori Valo have

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Speaker 1: to do with Brian Coburger.

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Speaker 7: So, Nancy, What the defense is arguing in cober Eer's

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Speaker 7: case is that the state's expert witness list was not complete.

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Speaker 7: They're saying that it's too vague, it's overbroad, not everyone

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Speaker 7: is named. So they are threatening to try and get

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Speaker 7: this death penalty stricken again if that expert witness list

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Speaker 7: is not amended. So that's exactly what happened in Lori

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Speaker 7: Valo's case. The judge who saw this huge failure to

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Speaker 7: turn over evidence to the defense with only three weeks

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Speaker 7: away from trial, really had no choice but to employ

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Speaker 7: this extreme remedy of taking the death penalty off the table.

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Speaker 7: There was no way the defense could possibly sit.

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Speaker 2: Through all of that evidence at the last second.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Brian Stewart with me veteran trial lawyer, Brian, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to go deaf cone four on this get

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Speaker 1: too far in the weeds. But the problem and call

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Speaker 1: it mantlauriy Valo's case, she had a speedy a speedy

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Speaker 1: trial demand, and if the state didn't try it within

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Speaker 1: a certain amount of time, which varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: there would be a total acquittal. Repeat, if the state

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Speaker 1: didn't try it within a certain period of time, there

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Speaker 1: would be an outright acquittal. So the deal struck was

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Speaker 1: the judge took the DP death penalty off the table.

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Speaker 1: We don't have that problem here, but the defense is

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Speaker 1: trying it. They're saying, because the expert witness list is

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Speaker 1: not completely we don't have a trial for months and

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Speaker 1: months and months to go, that the DP should be

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Speaker 1: taken off the table. That's what they're doing right now.

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Speaker 15: Agree to disagree, Well, in this situation, the constitutional protections

436
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 15: that we have are more important than any one case,

437
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 15: and so if the prosecution didn't turn over this information

438
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 15: in charge that they should have turned over, it's in

439
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 15: all of our best interests that evidence be excluded.

440
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 11: Even if it damaged damages the prosecution's case in this situation, you.

441
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 1: Know, speaking of the death building in this case, everybody

442
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: sit down for this. The latest defense argument. You may

443
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: need to lay down for this one. Listen to the

444
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: death penalty argument made by the defense.

445
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,479
Speaker 7: I don't believe that our constitution.

446
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 16: Allows for us to move forward and make him sit

447
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 16: on death row for years and years and years.

448
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: The way Idaho is doing it right now.

449
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 7: Isn't really working.

450
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: It's not a realistic option.

451
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 16: I think to have him sit on death row and say,

452
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 16: Idaho's going to figure out how to kill you at

453
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 16: some point in the future in a way that isn't

454
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 16: cruel and unusual and in violation of your rights, I

455
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 16: just don't think that the constitutional protections allow that to happen.

456
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: Really. Chris mcdona, former homicide to take the start of

457
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: the interview room. What is she saying? Well, if you

458
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: kill him now, I'm fine with the death penalty, but

459
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: if you make him wait, tick tick, that's inhumane. Am

460
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: I hearing her? Can she hear herself?

461
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 9: Yeah? Can you believe it? Nancy? I mean, can you

462
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 9: picture the founding fathers, you know, shigning all the documents

463
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 9: that have made this country great? Thinking, you know, if

464
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 9: there's going to be a guy named Brian Kolberger who's

465
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 9: going to have to sit for quite some time, and

466
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 9: the state's going to have to figure it out. It's

467
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 9: just ludicrous, just a really gallow argument.

468
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: I mean, Chris mcdona, I'm looking at my notes that

469
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: I took on Ann Taylor's argument. She's a really good lawyer.

470
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: I mean, she's grasping a straws here, but what can

471
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: she do? And my big night was ha ha, waiting

472
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: equals cruel unusual punishment under the Constitution. And again ha ha,

473
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: So I guess she's okay. If they kill them immediately,

474
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: that would be the argument. But that's not all. Listen

475
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: to more of Taylor's argument.

476
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 16: We think that the court ought to strike the death

477
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 16: penalty in this case and not allow the case to

478
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 16: go forward as a death penalty case because Idaho does

479
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 16: not have a current means of executing anybody. When somebody

480
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 16: sits on death row and there's no real means of

481
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 16: executing them, that is dehumanizing to that person.

482
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 17: That's similar say, there's no means under Idaho law. The

483
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 17: method of execution is lethal injection, and if unavailable, then

484
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 17: the firing squad. You rely significantly on the idea that

485
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 17: lethal objection injection is not available. Based upon the quote

486
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 17: unquote watched execution of mister Creech.

487
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, please help me. Okay, not in a

488
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: professional capacity, of course, but doctor Bethany, she is now saying,

489
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: Coburger is going to have to wait to find out

490
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: how he's going to be executed. What about the victims' families,

491
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: Just hold on just one moment. They know how their

492
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: daughters and son were murdered. They were knifed to death,

493
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: they were slaughtered like animals in a slaughterhouse. Okay, but

494
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: yet Coburger getting three hots and a cot paid for

495
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: by me and you, that's inhumane compared to what the victims'

496
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: families go through the rest of their life.

497
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 10: Nancy Coldberger loves to wait. He's spent his whole life waiting,

498
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 10: his whole life waiting to become a serial killer. Waiting

499
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 10: is not a problem for him. And when you think

500
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 10: about the psychology of the serial killers, they are so

501
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 10: filled and full of sexually deviant, sadistic fantasies that often

502
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 10: there are long periods of time between actual slayings because

503
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 10: they are very satisfied with their fantasy life. In some ways,

504
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 10: this is like a dream come true for him. He

505
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 10: doesn't have to work, he doesn't have to support himself.

506
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 10: He can just fantasize all day long.

507
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 7: This is not.

508
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: Then you get us so much more delicately than I

509
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,959
Speaker 1: would fantasizing what is going to do? Sit behind bars

510
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: and masturbate to the memory of what he did if

511
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: in fact he's proving guilty. I think that's what you're saying.

512
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: You know what, doctor Bethany, I appreciate your delicate nature,

513
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: but we are talking about their murder of four young idahosts.

514
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: You its brutally literally butchered like animals and Sidney so

515
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: i'mner or investigative reporter. Let me just clarify one thing.

516
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: The defense is whining about what all another killer Thomas

517
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: Creech went through before the DP. Bottom line, they couldn't

518
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: find a vein. I never had a nurse in the

519
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: hospital the whole time I was in there after delivery

520
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: that could find a vein. Okay, it happens all the time.

521
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: That's the problem. They couldn't find his vein.

522
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 7: That is in fact what they are complaining about. Yep,

523
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 7: he must have been dehydrated that morning, just like so

524
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 7: many people are in the hospital on a day to

525
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 7: day basis, and that is their argument that lethal injection

526
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 7: is not available.

527
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 14: Coberger's defense team has hired cell phone experts SIREE to

528
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 14: testify and support of Coberger's alibi. The former police officer

529
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 14: and founder of z X bases his analysis on the

530
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 14: pings that a cell phone sends to a nearby tower

531
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 14: using the software tracks, but many have questioned the reliability

532
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 14: have raised data. Many other experts say Trax's methodology is

533
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 14: not as in science, and Colorado judge has even banned

534
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,479
Speaker 14: prosecutors from using the software in their cases.

535
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: Scott Iiker joining US founder member FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team,

536
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: we now know that cellular and digital data is a

537
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: big bone of contingent in the trial. What's happening, Scott.

538
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 4: Well, we know that the police department, with the assistance

539
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 4: of the FBI and other law enforcement agencies, got data

540
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 4: from mister Colburger's phone. Not only did they get it

541
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 4: on the night of the Adrew Bahama side, but they

542
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 4: also got it prior to that time and afterwards, so

543
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 4: we can see that information. What they have found is

544
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 4: that on the night of the a Drew Bahama side,

545
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 4: he had turned his phone off. He turned it off

546
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 4: for a good amount of time. I think it was

547
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 4: for about two and a half hours. And what they

548
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 4: also did see is that he had left his house

549
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 4: in Pullman and gone so else but then he turned

550
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 4: his phone off while he's supposedly committing the crime, and

551
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 4: then on the way back home turned his phone back on.

552
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,479
Speaker 4: We see this all the time in criminals that don't

553
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 4: want their phone to be tracked to this scene of

554
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 4: the crime. We did this in bank robbery cases. We'd

555
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 4: follow the guys days before where they go scout out

556
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 4: the bank, leaving their phones on, and then the day

557
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 4: of the crime turn it off, thinking that that wouldn't

558
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 4: show that they're there. But we could see that pattern

559
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 4: of life that's going to be helpful to the prosecution.

560
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: And now the Amazon order of the knife we believe

561
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 1: is the murder weapon. More analysis reveals more evidence. Listen,

562
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: this is the search warrant. These ASIN numbers are basically

563
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: inventory control numbers for Amazon. This is the Amazon ASIN

564
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: that I put in. This is the product that came up.

565
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: And the other search warrants started to chase the receipts

566
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: to Amazon, to Walmart.

567
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 9: For and the banks. They started pushing search warrants out

568
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 9: to the banks, and they were looking for a money

569
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 9: trail that purchased potentially a weapon like this.

570
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: Okay, joining me, christ madonnad from the interview room, and

571
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: that was from the interview room on YouTube. You know,

572
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: Christma Donna, you and I talk a lot about what

573
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: one single piece of evidence can prove that it can

574
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: prove so many different things, not just that Coburger ordered

575
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: the murder weapon according to the state, but your analysis

576
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: reveals so much more evidence in a nutshell.

577
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 9: What so, Nancy, that that could be gold. You know,

578
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 9: to your point right, that Amazon number just think of

579
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 9: it as like a ven number for a car. It's

580
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 9: a product number that every like three hundred and fifty

581
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 9: million products that go through Amazon have and those numbers

582
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 9: are unique to each of those products. So once they

583
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 9: discovered that knife that came up, then they're going to

584
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 9: chase the money on that, and that money trail in

585
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 9: of itself will be able. If you can get a

586
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 9: receipt on that, then that's going to give you time dates,

587
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 9: you know, those kinds of things, and then you can

588
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 9: really get into the head of Coburger at the time

589
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 9: he was making these purchases. So that's going to lead

590
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 9: into a whole new direction for the investigation.

591
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 1: What kind direction.

592
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 9: Well, it'll give you, you know, pre incident behavior, it'll

593
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 9: give you his thought process. It will also lead into,

594
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 9: you know, the type of you know, why he's purchasing

595
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 9: that particular knife. Is there a sexual motivation?

596
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 5: Uh?

597
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 8: Is there?

598
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 5: You know?

599
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 9: Going down those lines? So is it a fantasy that

600
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 9: he's buying the Schneische Remember that knight is almost a

601
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 9: symbol of a phallic symbol in relationship to this type

602
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 9: of attack.

603
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: Because I'm not sure you're going to get that off

604
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 1: an Amazon order history, but I trust you.

605
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 18: The defense is also moving to suppress Coburger's statements the

606
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 18: night of his arrest, which begs the question did the

607
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 18: accused quadruple murderer incriminate himself? Coberger's attorneys claim when Coburger

608
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 18: was held at gunpoint and had his hands zip tied,

609
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 18: he made statements to the officers surrounding him despite not

610
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 18: having been read his rights. The defense further once any

611
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 18: statements Coburger made in transport and without an attorney present

612
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 18: during interrogation at the Monroe County Correctional Facility stricken.

613
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: The harder the defense fights a particular point, the more

614
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: damaging and probative it is for the state. Now we

615
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: are learning the defense is fighting tooth and nail to

616
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 1: keep statements out to Sydney Sumner and to get a reporter.

617
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: What statements they have not been revealed, but we see

618
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,439
Speaker 1: they're arguing about statements that he made at the time

619
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: police showed up to the appearance Pocono's home, statements he

620
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: made in transit, and more so, in order to argue

621
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: we want these statements to be suppressed. Number one, the

622
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: statements have to be made, so there are statements, and

623
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: number two, they have to be something incriminating to the

624
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: point the defense is fighting to have them suppressed.

625
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 7: Get it. You're absolutely correct, Nancy. So we have no

626
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 7: idea what Coberger said, but we do know that that

627
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 7: was a dynamic entry into the house. The entire family

628
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 7: was surrounded by officers, held at gunpoint, So this must

629
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 7: have been a very stressful situation. So is he begging

630
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 7: for mercy? Is he telling them he is surrendering? Is

631
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 7: he admitting some form of guilt just enough of a

632
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 7: nugget for someone to twist that in a way to

633
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 7: make it incriminals We don't know, but it will be

634
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 7: interesting to find out if.

635
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: That evidence makes it into court. Yeah, and you know

636
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,919
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonne joining me veteran homicide to take a start

637
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: of the interview room on YouTube. Chris, it doesn't have

638
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: to be I didn't do it. It could It could

639
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: be I was in Hawaii when that happened. It could

640
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: be I don't know anything about the slave of the

641
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: force students before the force students have even been mentioned.

642
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: It could be any number of things that may not

643
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: be an outright confession but indicate intimate knowledge of the murders.

644
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, and those spontaneous utterances like that are just beautiful

645
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 9: because you know that there's no pressure in relationship to

646
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 9: the subject, just kind of asking a question. Sometimes they're

647
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 9: even questions, right, Nancy, I mean, how many have your

648
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 9: dependents have asked the cops questions when they first shook

649
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 9: them up, like you know, anybody else arrested? Why why

650
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 9: you're arresting me? Those are those are those are great statements.

651
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: You know, doctor Bethany Marshall. When people are trying to

652
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: lie and they don't have their statement ready, they can

653
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: say any number of things that are tails that are

654
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 1: telling not necessarily an outright confession.

655
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 10: You know, Nancy, especially since he's thought so much about this.

656
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 10: There's a lot of information rolling around in that head

657
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 10: about the crimes, right, how much time he's spent stalking

658
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 10: the victims, what time the murder took.

659
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: Place, how the bodies were left.

660
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 10: I mean, the information that could come out of his

661
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 10: mouth is endless, and if his anxiety level is high,

662
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 10: he's not going to be able to think clearly about

663
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 10: what he knows that he shouldn't know.

664
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, signing off Goodbye friend,