1
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:07,840
Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.

2
00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,720
Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan.

3
00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,200
Speaker 3: Hey everyone, Elisa Donovan here back with a new episode

4
00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,759
Speaker 3: of Killer Thriller. Today's conversation goes straight into the darkest

5
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,319
Speaker 3: corners of real life, the kinds of stories that are

6
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:30,400
Speaker 3: almost unbearable because they actually happened. We're talking about obsession, manipulation, control,

7
00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,920
Speaker 3: and violence and how easily it can hide charm, authority

8
00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,440
Speaker 3: or a dating profile. Our guest today is actress and

9
00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,239
Speaker 3: director Elizabeth Rome, whose work has brought some of the

10
00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,320
Speaker 3: most disturbing true crime cases to the screen, from serial

11
00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,440
Speaker 3: killers hiding in plain sight to predators operating inside homes

12
00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,960
Speaker 3: and college campuses. Elizabeth has made a career out of

13
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,400
Speaker 3: staring directly at the worst of humanity and asking us

14
00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 3: to do the same. These stories aren't just shocking, they're cautionary,

15
00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 3: and once you hear how close they come to real life,

16
00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 3: you might never swipe trust or look away the same

17
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:13,679
Speaker 3: way again. Okay, before we jump into this interview with Elizabeth,

18
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,080
Speaker 3: I just need to really break this down a little

19
00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 3: bit with one of my producers, So Chrissy, let's break

20
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:25,679
Speaker 3: this down, because to be clear, this man's crimes are

21
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,880
Speaker 3: just absolutely outrageous. And we need to remember that these

22
00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,000
Speaker 3: movies are made for entertainment, so sometimes they don't really

23
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 3: get as kind of.

24
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,080
Speaker 4: It the minutia into the minutia of the crime. So

25
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,320
Speaker 4: let's just like talk.

26
00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:45,800
Speaker 5: A little bit about it.

27
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:51,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean this movie actually doing the research, which

28
00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,720
Speaker 6: we've both read a bunch of bothers. Yes, doing the

29
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 6: research on the crime. The movie does follow pretty close

30
00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:57,640
Speaker 6: to a lot of.

31
00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,480
Speaker 5: The stuff very much so, Yes, very much so.

32
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,760
Speaker 6: And it is because of those articles and the crime

33
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 6: stories that this movie was made, right, That's why they

34
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 6: followed it right, right, But we are talking about a

35
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 6: man who was killing women and putting them in shopping

36
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,240
Speaker 6: carts at the base of this crime, at.

37
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,000
Speaker 5: The base of this crime, and also what he would do.

38
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,959
Speaker 3: One of the ways that they proved that this man

39
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:27,639
Speaker 3: was guilty is that after each of these women was murdered,

40
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,160
Speaker 3: they found in his phone or his computer that he

41
00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:38,119
Speaker 3: watched explicit videos of women that looked exactly like who

42
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:39,400
Speaker 3: he had just murdered.

43
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,040
Speaker 4: Which is another level of psychological like.

44
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,960
Speaker 3: Yes, so you could say, okay, is this insanity? Is

45
00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,359
Speaker 3: this you know, deep psychological problems? Yes, but it's also

46
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:57,959
Speaker 3: weirdly you know, scientific and sort of it's just so crazy.

47
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:03,720
Speaker 3: And then also as much as like Monica White, thank

48
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:09,760
Speaker 3: God for her, you know that her internal intuition that

49
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,359
Speaker 3: eventually said.

50
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:12,760
Speaker 5: I got to get away from this guy.

51
00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:19,160
Speaker 3: But there are a few things where I think, hold on, okay, Well, first.

52
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,880
Speaker 6: Of all, we need to we need to mention this

53
00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:22,680
Speaker 6: all all happens over dating apps.

54
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,240
Speaker 4: That's how he meets these women.

55
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,680
Speaker 3: Right, yes, yes, so, And it's important to remember that,

56
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,360
Speaker 3: which they do show very well in this movie, that

57
00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,120
Speaker 3: we never know what the other person is doing at

58
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 3: the time that they are communicating with us. Right, you

59
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,200
Speaker 3: can't see them. It's on an app, you're typing into something.

60
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,680
Speaker 3: So before they you know, have a video chat or

61
00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,200
Speaker 3: anything like that, they're just communicating. So she has no

62
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:52,840
Speaker 3: idea what this man is actually doing. But when she

63
00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 3: finally meets him, he gets off the bus and immediately

64
00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,520
Speaker 3: is like, can I move.

65
00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,040
Speaker 5: In with you? And I don't have any money.

66
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,520
Speaker 3: Now, that to me would be like an enormous red flag,

67
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 3: which I think in retrospect, she did say she felt

68
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,440
Speaker 3: it was, but that and then he when he slept

69
00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,400
Speaker 3: in her bed, he like peede in her bed, and

70
00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,920
Speaker 3: then she'd still let him stay like there are all

71
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,839
Speaker 3: these things that and of course they're not going to

72
00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,600
Speaker 3: put this in the movie because nobody wants to see that, right,

73
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,680
Speaker 3: nobody wants to see that. But it's it's just like

74
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:39,440
Speaker 3: the details of this crime are so bizarre and so

75
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,720
Speaker 3: disturbing that I just.

76
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,600
Speaker 6: It sounds like he had a pattern, right, because if

77
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 6: you read all the artist, read all the things he

78
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,040
Speaker 6: gets accused of, basically he's at the end of the day,

79
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 6: they think there were six murders that he was a

80
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,000
Speaker 6: part of, although they were only able to really prove

81
00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:58,400
Speaker 6: what looks like three.

82
00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,680
Speaker 3: I think he's either he's going on trial again this

83
00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,720
Speaker 3: spring or he's being sentenced this spring.

84
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,279
Speaker 5: Yes, so it's not over. This is not over.

85
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:08,880
Speaker 4: But he had a pattern, right.

86
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,599
Speaker 6: He got on the dating apps, he goes through, he

87
00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,640
Speaker 6: finds somebody that he finds attractive or interesting, and it.

88
00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,320
Speaker 3: Is very effusive to them. You're so beautiful, I'd love

89
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 3: to get to know you.

90
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,919
Speaker 4: Same stuff, every same stuff. Yep.

91
00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,400
Speaker 6: And then because of his own trauma, let's say what

92
00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,200
Speaker 6: we find out in the film, and then through these

93
00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:32,880
Speaker 6: articles on trial, through his own trauma, with children, with

94
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,000
Speaker 6: like exes and everything. He basically is looking for someone

95
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,080
Speaker 6: to accept him right right, yes, And then he goes

96
00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,680
Speaker 6: to meet these women and if they don't accept him

97
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,560
Speaker 6: right away, it's.

98
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,320
Speaker 5: Like it's like you're a goner.

99
00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,479
Speaker 3: So he actually says to her that's the other thing,

100
00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,159
Speaker 3: huge red flag. The second he gets off the bus,

101
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,320
Speaker 3: he says, don't reject me. I don't like it when

102
00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,159
Speaker 3: women reject me, so give me a chance. That's like,

103
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,479
Speaker 3: that's a whole ball of axe. That's like I would

104
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,880
Speaker 3: feel as though I, you know, in my past have

105
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,320
Speaker 3: liked to fix men. But that's like a big fix

106
00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:15,080
Speaker 3: that I cannot you know, It's it's insane. And also

107
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,040
Speaker 3: they think, so he speaks about and they speak They

108
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,479
Speaker 3: talk about this in the film as well, that he

109
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 3: had an ex whose name is Sky and that she

110
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,520
Speaker 3: died and he's clearly very affected by that. But the

111
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,560
Speaker 3: truth is also they think he may have killed her.

112
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,720
Speaker 3: That is an unsolved situation. The mom came in and

113
00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,159
Speaker 3: found her in the room that they shared and she

114
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:46,480
Speaker 3: was not breathing, so they don't he might have murdered

115
00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:47,359
Speaker 3: her as well.

116
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think the thing here is that,

117
00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,200
Speaker 6: like the psychological of it is all is because it

118
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,839
Speaker 6: was so repetitive, right, The things he was saying was repetitive,

119
00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,520
Speaker 6: the actions were repetitive. The fact that Monica White was

120
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,320
Speaker 6: able to stay alive because she was sincere in the

121
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,400
Speaker 6: way that she felt for him, that he had like

122
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,320
Speaker 6: an emotional connection to her, so like it wasn't like

123
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 6: these other women who either rejected him or just were,

124
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,440
Speaker 6: for lack of a better word, little sluts. Like so

125
00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,400
Speaker 6: we're like, you know what I'm saying, Like he didn't

126
00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,920
Speaker 6: have like an emotional connection. It was kind of just

127
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,360
Speaker 6: about like the getting the satisfaction that getting that person

128
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,400
Speaker 6: to meet him, the getting to make out with them,

129
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 6: and like all that stuff. This woman survived because she

130
00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,840
Speaker 6: had a connection with him which went through a longer

131
00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,960
Speaker 6: psychological process with him in the crime situation of it.

132
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,080
Speaker 6: And then in the movie they really portrayed that he

133
00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:49,040
Speaker 6: gets caught like right away after he loses his stuff

134
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 6: on her and then but it.

135
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,600
Speaker 5: Really but it's actually almost a year, right.

136
00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was months, and it was like she he

137
00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,120
Speaker 4: reached out to her more before she knew and then

138
00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,680
Speaker 4: one day off and was like, hey, guess what that

139
00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,360
Speaker 4: guy you invited to your birthday.

140
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:07,440
Speaker 6: Party, serial killer, and you got off because, right, you

141
00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,400
Speaker 6: basically emotionally connected with this person.

142
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:15,040
Speaker 3: That is such an important point and you know, really

143
00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:20,520
Speaker 3: speaks to how this is about being isolated and being

144
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:28,520
Speaker 3: so emotionally empty and desperate for connection, and how how

145
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 3: that can turn so deeply awry, you know, so go

146
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,280
Speaker 3: so awry and so many of these these these crimes

147
00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,440
Speaker 3: that we talk about, that's really at the core of

148
00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,080
Speaker 3: it is like a deep, deep loneliness.

149
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, these people will be portrayed as monsters, right, but

150
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,679
Speaker 6: it is a lot of psychological trauma that goes into it.

151
00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,080
Speaker 6: And whether or not he is actually making a phone

152
00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,240
Speaker 6: call to a girl that is emotionally supporting him while

153
00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,480
Speaker 6: he's standing over a dead body, right, he's like the

154
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:00,720
Speaker 6: compartment mentalizing.

155
00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, that could be.

156
00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:10,760
Speaker 3: For you know, dramatic, you know effect, but the point

157
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:17,480
Speaker 3: is there. So I cannot wait to chat with Elizabeth.

158
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,400
Speaker 5: All of these movies that she has made.

159
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:25,720
Speaker 3: She has done a beautiful job at really portraying these

160
00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:30,960
Speaker 3: people as full human beings, and particularly the victims and

161
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,439
Speaker 3: the women, which is not always the case. Sometimes that

162
00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,160
Speaker 3: gets sensationalized and it's all about the predator.

163
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,440
Speaker 1: So I really.

164
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,280
Speaker 3: Appreciate how the depth and the nuance that she has

165
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,000
Speaker 3: put into these movies.

166
00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,120
Speaker 4: And she casted them to look exactly like that.

167
00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,439
Speaker 5: I know, it's super freaky.

168
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,480
Speaker 4: Super crazy.

169
00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:54,240
Speaker 5: All right, let's get into it.

170
00:09:54,320 --> 00:10:03,760
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, Elizabeth, welcome to Killer Thriller, Think Killer Thriller.

171
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,120
Speaker 7: I mean that sounds like the best place best.

172
00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:07,920
Speaker 1: That's nice to be.

173
00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,760
Speaker 5: Like right in your I can't believe it's.

174
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:12,880
Speaker 1: Taking us this long to meet.

175
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,200
Speaker 3: I know, Okay, so thank you for being here and

176
00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 3: for being here in person, Like I said it really,

177
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,120
Speaker 3: it's just it's nice to actually be in a room

178
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,960
Speaker 3: with another human and have these conversations.

179
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:23,520
Speaker 5: So thank you.

180
00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:24,560
Speaker 1: Couldn't agree more.

181
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,120
Speaker 8: So let's just start in the general. These stories are.

182
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,400
Speaker 3: They're brutal, They're like, honestly, I was thinking like since

183
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,720
Speaker 3: I started doing this podcast, like gosh, I sleeping is

184
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,680
Speaker 3: a little bit different these days, like how how do

185
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:40,960
Speaker 3: you sleep when you're shooting?

186
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,160
Speaker 5: Like how do you actually like does it impact your sleep?

187
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:45,040
Speaker 5: I guess is the question?

188
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,280
Speaker 2: You know. I think I do have darker thoughts, you know,

189
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,360
Speaker 2: having now gone so much into this true crime space,

190
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:56,160
Speaker 2: meaning like I find myself thinking, oh, well, that's definitely possible,

191
00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:57,960
Speaker 2: or that human being can do that, or you have

192
00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,960
Speaker 2: no idea when you hear a story on the news.

193
00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:01,880
Speaker 1: And you're like no way, and you're like, yeah way.

194
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,280
Speaker 2: There is a dark side, of course, and I'm now

195
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:06,360
Speaker 2: very tapped into it.

196
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,320
Speaker 1: But coming from the years of law and order and

197
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,480
Speaker 1: being a true crime un side have already. Yeah, I've

198
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,240
Speaker 1: always been interested in a human stories.

199
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,200
Speaker 2: Nothing is more dramatic than real life, and nothing is

200
00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 2: more dramatic than nonfiction and crime and really getting into justice.

201
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:24,520
Speaker 1: That's always been my thing.

202
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,080
Speaker 2: And then of course I think as an actor's director,

203
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,160
Speaker 2: I'm very drawn to drama and big performances, and I

204
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,000
Speaker 2: think these true crime stories generally have a call to

205
00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,520
Speaker 2: action as well. So but it is a tender thing

206
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,320
Speaker 2: dealing with these victims, and it definitely brings some dark

207
00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,960
Speaker 2: thoughts because of course it's it's unimaginable some of these stories.

208
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like you said, it's like it's unimaginable, and

209
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,320
Speaker 3: then you see, this is what really fascinates me, and

210
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,880
Speaker 3: I think why a lot of people are so embedded

211
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,199
Speaker 3: in it, because to me, I feel like this is

212
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,640
Speaker 3: all about the human condition and what we are capable

213
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:08,240
Speaker 3: of and sometimes it's either just circumstances or the combination

214
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,560
Speaker 3: of circumstances and survival and what you've been through and

215
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 3: what trauma you've had, like all of those things come

216
00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,439
Speaker 3: together to create these horrific situations.

217
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 2: And that's a really real reason why I love partnering

218
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,240
Speaker 2: with Lifetime, because not only are they making a ton

219
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,760
Speaker 2: of movies as a studio slash network. I mean, they're

220
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 2: incredibly productive when a lot of people are, but in

221
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,120
Speaker 2: my bucket of doing the true crime movies, I've really

222
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,520
Speaker 2: found every single one that there's been a call to action,

223
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,200
Speaker 2: either at the end of the movie there's a lot

224
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,319
Speaker 2: of thattline, or there's been a documentary piece at the end,

225
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,600
Speaker 2: So it doesn't feel irresponsible or gratuitous to tell these stories.

226
00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,520
Speaker 2: I find Lifetime as a partner to be very highly

227
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,880
Speaker 2: conscious these are commercial projects. Of course, people definitely come

228
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,240
Speaker 2: for the thrill, but they are also I think lit

229
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,480
Speaker 2: up by other human voices that might reflect back to

230
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,000
Speaker 2: them what they're experiencing. So we've experienced people reaching out

231
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,200
Speaker 2: saying thank you for telling this story.

232
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:11,479
Speaker 1: I needed this story.

233
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,240
Speaker 2: In order to give me a voice, or to encourage

234
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,800
Speaker 2: me to leave a bad situation. Or to get out

235
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,440
Speaker 2: or to give a language to a family member like

236
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,679
Speaker 2: I'm seeing behavior and now I understand what this could

237
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,319
Speaker 2: possibly mean. But again, a lot of these movies, and

238
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,680
Speaker 2: I think trauma in general, it can be generational, it

239
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,600
Speaker 2: can be historical in the family, and I think telling

240
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,840
Speaker 2: these true crime stories has a purpose beyond just the

241
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:37,199
Speaker 2: drama of it.

242
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 1: I think that when we tell these stories, hopefully it

243
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:40,920
Speaker 1: helps people heal.

244
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,920
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, because yes, yes, that must be incredibly rewarding. Then,

245
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,280
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what I think we all want. You know,

246
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,800
Speaker 3: I was just talking about this earlier that as actors

247
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,640
Speaker 3: were somewhat limited sometimes where you know, sometimes you get

248
00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 3: the paycheck for what isn't as fulfilling and vice versa,

249
00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,400
Speaker 3: and it's I just think it's thest I agree with

250
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,560
Speaker 3: you about these stories. And I want to say, for

251
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,520
Speaker 3: anybody who hasn't watched any of the ones we're going

252
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:10,080
Speaker 3: to talk about, you're a marvelous director. You're a terrific director,

253
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,400
Speaker 3: not only an actor's director, but also it's really they're

254
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:20,640
Speaker 3: really well shot, these movies, they're well created, and it's

255
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,400
Speaker 3: not you can really feel the kind of like the

256
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,400
Speaker 3: real weight to them. They without being sensationalized, and I

257
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 3: think that's not an easy thing to do.

258
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,240
Speaker 2: So thanks, and I will give props also to my

259
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,240
Speaker 2: producing partner, Kara Pfiffer and our production company Rome five

260
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,840
Speaker 2: for entertainment. Because we are women, I think we are

261
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,960
Speaker 2: sensitive and because you know we're we are women with

262
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,840
Speaker 2: style and we have I think good taste and not

263
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 2: only material, but artists, fellow artists. We really want these

264
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,600
Speaker 2: movies to stand out to see premium, even if they

265
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,400
Speaker 2: have a couple million dollars budget, that they feel like

266
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,040
Speaker 2: they're way more funded than that, and that they do.

267
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,760
Speaker 1: They're really that they're premium and that they feel special

268
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 1: and important.

269
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:05,200
Speaker 5: I well they do.

270
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 3: So the first one we're going to talk about today

271
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,120
Speaker 3: is it's about the shopping cart Killer. The name of

272
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,960
Speaker 3: the movie is The Dating App Killer, the Monica White Story.

273
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,040
Speaker 3: So this story, I mean, all of these are just

274
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,880
Speaker 3: super disturbing and unreal, but this one starts with something

275
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,960
Speaker 3: that millions of people use, a dating app. And you know,

276
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 3: as a person who I got married before that was

277
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,520
Speaker 3: even a thing, so it's sort of somewhat terrifying to me,

278
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,600
Speaker 3: but it's so normal. Everyone does this, and so do

279
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 3: you think that's what makes this so scary.

280
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:38,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

281
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 2: I first of all, I think that the marketing on

282
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,360
Speaker 2: Lifetimes part is brilliant. I'm not sure if I was single,

283
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,440
Speaker 2: i'd ever go on a dating app. Ever, again, I'm

284
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 2: a teenager who's now like, you know, eighteen, and is

285
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,360
Speaker 2: on a dating app. And he's like, stop with your

286
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:55,720
Speaker 2: catastrophe stories.

287
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, be there, make sure they come to the house.

288
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,440
Speaker 2: You're not meeting anybody anywhere where there's some supervision or

289
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,240
Speaker 2: at least that you've got an air tag on you.

290
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,560
Speaker 2: What are you talking about? But and I do think

291
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,600
Speaker 2: that the dating apps are great. I think it's an

292
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,600
Speaker 2: incredible way to kind of cut to the chase and

293
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,840
Speaker 2: like cut through the sort of kind of red tape

294
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,640
Speaker 2: of dating, just to be clear, like what your intentions are,

295
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 2: who you are. So I don't I'm not trying to

296
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 2: drive people away from dating apps, but it's unbelievable.

297
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:26,760
Speaker 1: That this actually happened.

298
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,720
Speaker 2: And loneliness is an epidemic, and I think our need

299
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,320
Speaker 2: to be loved and seen and heard and have somebody

300
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,080
Speaker 2: to interact with is deep for all of us. So,

301
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,560
Speaker 2: you know, I think that it's understandable how it happened,

302
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,040
Speaker 2: And I think it's a beautiful story because Monica White

303
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 2: really didn't end up getting victimized. She really listened to

304
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,760
Speaker 2: her spoiler alert, but yeah, yep, she ended up listening

305
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:50,720
Speaker 2: to her instincts.

306
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:55,040
Speaker 3: Well, you know this, he did not look like a monster,

307
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,280
Speaker 3: this man, and I think one of the most effective.

308
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 3: There are a couple of scenes where this happened happens,

309
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:06,560
Speaker 3: where you cut from between the character of Anthony typing

310
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,760
Speaker 3: to her and always, you know, speaking in like you're beautiful,

311
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,399
Speaker 3: I'd love to see you. You're like my heart's desire,

312
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 3: all this sort of stuff, and you see where he

313
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,639
Speaker 3: is in a one case, he just killed someone, and

314
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,399
Speaker 3: then juxtaposed with Monica, who is sitting, you know, with

315
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 3: a glass of wine in her living room kind of

316
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,800
Speaker 3: like chatting with this person and this idea that we

317
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,879
Speaker 3: really don't know what's on the other side, and it's

318
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:33,760
Speaker 3: you know, something you have to think about.

319
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,159
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Welcome to Valentine's Day.

320
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,440
Speaker 2: You're gonna see Valentine's Day in a very different way

321
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 2: after the dating I've killing.

322
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 5: So I love that this is released on Valentine's Day?

323
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:44,760
Speaker 4: Is that right? Yeah?

324
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,760
Speaker 5: Brilliant genius brilliant.

325
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,480
Speaker 1: Yes, fourteen tune into lifetime.

326
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,159
Speaker 3: So did it stand out to you that he and

327
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,040
Speaker 3: the actual crime? You know, it's I feel like in

328
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 3: retrospect people could say, oh, of course, And I think

329
00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:59,159
Speaker 3: Monica does right.

330
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:00,960
Speaker 1: She real or she realized right away.

331
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 8: She sort of had the feeling right away there was

332
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,600
Speaker 8: something up with him.

333
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

334
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,679
Speaker 2: I think that's her perspective, is that there were some

335
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,199
Speaker 2: red flags. But again, I think she overlooked them. I

336
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:17,560
Speaker 2: think she wanted to have intimacy and then a very

337
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,359
Speaker 2: big event happened. It's a little different in the movie

338
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:24,160
Speaker 2: how we portrayed it, but the event itself was something

339
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,920
Speaker 2: that really made her. The red flags were screaming, and

340
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 2: she ended up saving herself because of them. So I

341
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 2: don't want to give too much away, because it really

342
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,439
Speaker 2: does take you on a ride, and I think it

343
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:42,080
Speaker 2: is thrilling and scary, the unknown of all of that.

344
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 1: But she saw behavior and.

345
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,359
Speaker 2: She listened to her inner voice, and I think that's

346
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 2: really a big takeaway in this movie. As opposed to

347
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,639
Speaker 2: the call to action sometimes in other true crime projects,

348
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 2: this is actually a hero's journey. She listened to herself,

349
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,199
Speaker 2: She got out of a bad situation. She saved her

350
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 2: life and she lives to tell it.

351
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 3: You know, he's portrayed in the movie and in life.

352
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,240
Speaker 3: When you see pictures like, he doesn't look like some

353
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:29,199
Speaker 3: sort of monster. He's quite handsome, charming, and you know,

354
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 3: that reserved sort of quality that I think as women,

355
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,399
Speaker 3: we you know, we look for or we interpret as safe.

356
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 5: I should say, yeah, not.

357
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:43,400
Speaker 2: To glorify a monster, that's not my agenda with these movies,

358
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:48,000
Speaker 2: but to understand the damage and the psychological implications that

359
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,879
Speaker 2: make a monster. It's I wanted to humanize him to

360
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 2: a degree that made it possible for us as an

361
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:04,360
Speaker 2: audience to think generational trauma, generational abuse un you know,

362
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,679
Speaker 2: sort of dealt with and not taken care of, you know,

363
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,879
Speaker 2: or at least professionally with some support, can turn into

364
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 2: tremendous violence, degradation and you know, and despair, you know,

365
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,959
Speaker 2: and violence. So you know, that's a big part of

366
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 2: why when you're talking about somebody that is a killer,

367
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,359
Speaker 2: criminal or something like that, to understand their psychology and

368
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 2: their backstory so that the actor can portray them.

369
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 1: And I hope then when the audience.

370
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,439
Speaker 2: Sees that character, they go, you know what, I have

371
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 2: some things I need that are unresolved or whatever that

372
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 2: and then also you know the potential victim really understanding

373
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 2: their perspective, so humanizing and stories.

374
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:50,159
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, did you feel any pressure to stay super

375
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 3: close to.

376
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 5: The facts of the story.

377
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously the emotional truth, but to the real

378
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 3: facts of the story, like did you meet Monica?

379
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,400
Speaker 5: Where did the script come from?

380
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were aware.

381
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,639
Speaker 2: Karen and I had read an article on People magazine

382
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:08,480
Speaker 2: about the shopping car killer dubbed Anthony Robinson, dubbed the

383
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 2: shopping car Killer, and we thought, you know what, maybe

384
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 2: there's something here.

385
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: We watched the trial.

386
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 2: We want we waited for the trial, and then as

387
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 2: the trial unfolded, it was resolved very quickly. He was

388
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 2: found guilty of several murders. He speculated others. But we

389
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,640
Speaker 2: as you know, a legal team, you know, a lifetime

390
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,919
Speaker 2: and you know, we can only tell the truth and

391
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 2: the only we can only tell the things that actually

392
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 2: have been proven. So there were a couple of women

393
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 2: that were you know, he was found guilty of hurting

394
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 2: and those are the women that are portrayed. And Monica,

395
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 2: then we reached out to her because we wanted to

396
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 2: tell the perspective from this more this positive point of

397
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 2: view of this hero's journey, and we talked to her

398
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: and again, you know, as producers reaching out to a victim,

399
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:54,959
Speaker 2: we take it very seriously.

400
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: It's not a joke.

401
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 2: They've been from, you know, through hell and back, and

402
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 2: we want them to trust us and know that we're

403
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 2: going to portray with so much integrity that they can

404
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 2: feel safe that their story is safe. So we spend

405
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 2: some time with her that we've brought in a screenwriter,

406
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,959
Speaker 2: and when we decided to, as you said, do this

407
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 2: kind of as a dual track, so you're in both

408
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 2: worlds at the same time. It kind of, I think

409
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 2: amps up the drama.

410
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 3: It does, but it also humanizes him and I mean

411
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 3: both of them really, but him as well.

412
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a bit of a grifter and it's good

413
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 2: to see that element, I think, because she actually does

414
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: see what's good in him too, and that makes it

415
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 2: particularly complicated, right.

416
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 3: Which can explain you know, sometimes when we look at

417
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 3: these things from the outside and we say, oh, I

418
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 3: would never do that, you know, I would never like

419
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 3: of course, I mean, he seems like such and such.

420
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 3: But the reality is is when we're in these situations.

421
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 3: They're very nuanced, and it's very complex and depending upon

422
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 3: how lonely we are, or what we're feeling, or what

423
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 3: we need, you know, it's just simply not that simple.

424
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think that's why a lot of victims

425
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,479
Speaker 2: tend to keep quiet. They're so ashamed of how they

426
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 2: got into a situation in the first place, that they

427
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 2: silence themselves as opposed to having empathy and compassion for

428
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 2: themselves and some self awareness as to you know, how

429
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 2: they were either love bombed or manipulated, or what's inside

430
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 2: of them that needs love so much.

431
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: It's interesting.

432
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 2: I didn't really think about this until now, but my

433
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: producing partner is a clinician, and I think also as

434
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 2: former actresses, we really do come at material from a

435
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: psychological point of view, and maybe that's part of why

436
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 2: the films feel more real and less sensationalized.

437
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, they truly do.

438
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 3: And speaking to that, how do you avoid turning the

439
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 3: killer into the most interesting character in the films? Because

440
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 3: you know, I personally feel as though, and I feel

441
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 3: like there's something that people are talking about now that

442
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 3: any of these crimes, there's always a sort of how

443
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 3: it gets sensationalized is We're always concerned with, you know,

444
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 3: the killer and the killer and the and we sort

445
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 3: of leave the victim behind in some way. And so

446
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 3: that is not the way any of these movies feel.

447
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 3: And so how do you avoid doing that, like making

448
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 3: him the most interesting?

449
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 2: I think the best way to do that from a

450
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 2: prudosorial point of view as well as as a director,

451
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 2: is to make it the Monica White story. So it's

452
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 2: the dating app killer, the Monica White story, and we're

453
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 2: not celebrating him and we are we are not positioning

454
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 2: him to become the most thrilling you know.

455
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: Sexy monster.

456
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 2: It's really her story and we really built out her character,

457
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 2: her world, and you'll see that when you see the film,

458
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: or you've seen the film, but when others see it,

459
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 2: because there is a great friend, and there's this, there's

460
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 2: familial relationships, and there's all that stuff in her life.

461
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: So it's really her story.

462
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 8: Was there a scene that stuck with you long after

463
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 8: you shot it?

464
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah?

465
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: I think the one where she has a nightmare. I

466
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 2: won't give it away.

467
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: We struggled with this scene and I was like.

468
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 4: What what say what?

469
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 5: When I was watching this, I'm like this, Oh god,

470
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 5: Oh no, is this.

471
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: What exactly I struggled.

472
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 5: It's a army struggled with.

473
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 2: It because we were like, let's stay in the moment

474
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 2: and let's not do that dream And we were all

475
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 2: so pleasantly surprised how the dream scene shot and then

476
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 2: how it edited into the film and we thought, oh

477
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 2: wow that really worked.

478
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, it definitely, it definitely does. What

479
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 3: do you hope that women who watch this take away

480
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 3: from it?

481
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 2: It's like you said, you know, happy Valentine's Day, and

482
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 2: also you may be on a dating app and that's okay,

483
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: Perhaps just really listen to your Spidey senses, like trust yourself,

484
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 2: trust your gut. You know, I'm not interested in, you know,

485
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 2: creating stories of fear, creating fear, but I think it's hopefully,

486
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: hopefully it's an inspiring story for women and when they

487
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 2: think of themselves is empowered and that they have an

488
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: inner voice, then they have to honor that inner.

489
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 3: Voice, right right, That is particularly in dating particularly, Well

490
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 3: that's what.

491
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 5: I thought was interesting too.

492
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 3: You know, there are moments where he goes on other

493
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 3: dates and one in particular, and it's very uh to me.

494
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 3: I went, oh, this is why this woman won't be

495
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 3: a victim. And it's similar to Monica, but this care

496
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 3: I mean, I won't give too much away either, but

497
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 3: you have there's a moment where you think, oh my god,

498
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 3: this girl is he's gonna he's gonna like he's gonna

499
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 3: kill her because she has got her own opinion. And

500
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 3: then you understand this is not like this is not

501
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 3: just a flagrant murderer. This man it is very specific

502
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 3: to his experiences in his life and certainly probably generational

503
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 3: trauma and all of those things.

504
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: So it's like a.

505
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 8: Much more it's a much deeper, more complex.

506
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I would just say Jared Joseph, he's so good. Really,

507
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: uh you know, we went very very deep, you know,

508
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 2: sort of playing with the idea of like how did

509
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 2: Anthony Robinson become Anthony Robinson? Right, And so there are

510
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 2: a lot of underpinnings that are very particular to the

511
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 2: work that Jared did. And without giving anything away, I'll

512
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: just say that the idea that this person like belonged nowhere,

513
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: belonged to nobody, and that's why Monica gets to him, Yeah,

514
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: because she's so loving and so whatever. It's the perfect storm.

515
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 2: And Leila Brashaan did such an incredible job. Her heart is,

516
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: she's such a sweet soul and such a loving person,

517
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: and her vulnerability and her willingness and her bravery even

518
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: in that scene, the dream scene. You know, I really

519
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 2: I admire her so much. It was so much fun

520
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: working with her.

521
00:27:46,720 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 8: Yeah, she was terrific. How did you turn to directing?

522
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 5: In general?

523
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 3: Like everybody thinks, oh, you know, you've acted forever. Why

524
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 3: wouldn't you just keep doing that?

525
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: You know, it's actually a Lifetime story because they had

526
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 2: a program at the time called the Broader Focus Program,

527
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: and I'd heard about it from other actresses. Kara Sedgwick,

528
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: Angela Bassett had participated done their first movies essentially with them,

529
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: and so that was a really an actionable item and

530
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 2: actionable plan that Lifetime was doing putting actresses behind the

531
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 2: camera to see how that experience might be. Of course,

532
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: if you wanted to have that experience, and I did,

533
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: I wanted to direct. I reached out to the then

534
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 2: head of Lifetime. She made it possible for me to

535
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: direct a film during COVID.

536
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: I did it with a.

537
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: Producer that had directed me before, So I had a

538
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 2: measure of confidence that, Okay, I if I was confused

539
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 2: or scared or whatever that i'd be supported, but the

540
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 2: opposite happened, and it was like a fire was lit

541
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: inside of me, and I thought, oh wow, I've always

542
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: been interested in human stories and narrative, obviously being an actor,

543
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: but I really love seeing it from the three hundred

544
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 2: and sixty degree view, and I love actors, so I

545
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: really fell into the directing. I then that movie did well,

546
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: Girl in the Basement, and then I went going to

547
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: talk about that, and then I went on and did

548
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 2: another one that did well too, and by then I

549
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 2: was like, this is my career move. I'm moving and

550
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: in doing that, then I decided I wanted to develop more,

551
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: and I then began a company with a friend of mine,

552
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: Kara Pfeiffer, who brought a project to me, and then

553
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: we started developing, and then we started it formally.

554
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: That two years ago.

555
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 8: Is like the dream, you know, I think that's amazing.

556
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 2: Maybe it's like the Monica White story. You just have

557
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 2: to listen to your instincts.

558
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: I don't know.

559
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 2: At that time, I think, you know, having done to

560
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: a cat me nominated movies back to back, it did

561
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 2: seem like a weird choice to like step away from

562
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: the acting. But I really just went with my happiness

563
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 2: and the door of yes opened and I thought, you

564
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 2: know what, this is what I'd like to be doing

565
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 2: for the next thirty years, right.

566
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 3: I mean, it certainly seems to me directing must utilize

567
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 3: a lot, like all the parts of your brain, of

568
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 3: your creativity, of your expertise. So I would imagine that

569
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 3: it's like a really much fuller creative experience.

570
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

571
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I miss sometimes the heart, you know, of

572
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 2: the acting, meaning just the simple quiet kind of connecting

573
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,239
Speaker 2: with another human being in a scene. I miss that,

574
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 2: and I love that, and maybe I will act again.

575
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: I just this is my seventh movie. I'm about to

576
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: leave and do my eighth movie for lifetime, and I'm

577
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: just really fulfilled. And I think, being a woman of

578
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: a certain age, it's nice to focus on others and

579
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 2: I don't need the attention on myself. So I'm really

580
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 2: enjoying helping actors find great performances and putting the whole

581
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: thing together at a phenomenal producing partner, So I love

582
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: going to work with her every day. Beyond that, maybe

583
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: I'll go back to the acting, but I definitely think

584
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: the directing is challenging. And it's challenging because you're responsible

585
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 2: for so many people, and that is very fulfilling, probably

586
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 2: much more complex in its fulfillment than just the acting.

587
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: The acting is a singular sport in a sense.

588
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 3: Right, you can also like show up in your sweats

589
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 3: and stay in your sweats as a director.

590
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: Exactly, and I can go and you do this and

591
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: you feel.

592
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: Sounds very I don't have to do her on megap

593
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: or worry about any anything.

594
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 3: This story is a reminder of how easily danger can

595
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 3: hide in everyday places.

596
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 5: But we are not done.

597
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 3: When we come back, we're digging into two more true

598
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: stories Elizabeth brought to life, abuse control and manipulation, hiding

599
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 3: in places that we're supposed to be safe. So come

600
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 3: back to our next episode where I continue my conversation

601
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: with Elizabeth