Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist. Tonight, we returned to you with a
Speaker 1: classic episode about how things can go wrong in the
Speaker 1: pursuit of fame. We've talked a lot about cults. We've
Speaker 1: talked a lot about cult like or cultic organizations, and
Speaker 1: not too long ago we learned about something called how
Speaker 1: would you pronounce this? Nexium?
Speaker 2: That's it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it kind of reads like kind of Roman numerally
Speaker 3: you see at the end of a movie, which may
Speaker 3: well be by the by design because it is a
Speaker 3: very hollywoody cult. We covered this pretty early, not to
Speaker 3: be all right, we found out about it first, but
Speaker 3: it was kind of weird how early we found out
Speaker 3: about the story, and then it became a documentary. We
Speaker 3: actually ended up interviewing somebody a little later, Sean Bright, Yeah,
Speaker 3: who was kind of a person who had escaped this cult,
Speaker 3: and he had some very interesting things to say about it,
Speaker 3: and I think for me that was one of the
Speaker 3: most illuminating in terms of what it's like inside of
Speaker 3: cult interviews that I've ever been a part of. But
Speaker 3: this episode here is more of a primer on the
Speaker 3: whole deal.
Speaker 2: Hey, let's get into.
Speaker 4: It, from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History
Speaker 4: is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now
Speaker 4: or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt nol
Speaker 2: Is on Adventures.
Speaker 1: And they call me Ben. We are joined with our
Speaker 1: super producer Paul Bolo Decand that's a little bit of
Speaker 1: an inside joke. I don't know if we'll explain it
Speaker 1: in this episode.
Speaker 2: But yeah, speaking of Bolo, be on the lookout for
Speaker 2: more specific information about the tour that we're going on
Speaker 2: in October.
Speaker 1: Yes, the rumors are true. We are coming to a
Speaker 1: town hopefully near you, on our first ever US tour,
Speaker 1: So check out. We'll have some more information. We'll also
Speaker 1: have probably some promos running for it. You can hit
Speaker 1: us up directly Conspiracy HowStuffWorks dot Com with any specific questions.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, you are you, and you are here,
Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2: All right, we're here, this is the thing, it's happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I wonder how many of you had had dreams of
Speaker 2: becoming famous or an actor or maybe a famous actor.
Speaker 2: Usually you don't have dreams of becoming an unknown character.
Speaker 1: Actor, right, There are very few people who say grew
Speaker 1: up in acting dynasties and you know, they were a
Speaker 1: Barrymore or a Coppola or something, and then they decided,
Speaker 1: I hate living up to my parents' expectations. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: run away and be a CPA and chase my dreams,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, So this is an
Speaker 1: interesting question too, especially here in the US, where the
Speaker 1: desire for fame is commodified, it's idealized. It's so common
Speaker 1: that it's an accepted part of stories in almost any
Speaker 1: genre of fiction. And you know, most people, it's similar
Speaker 1: to when we ask the question about whether or not
Speaker 1: you wanted to be an astronaut when you grew up.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, a lot of people do. A lot of
Speaker 1: people did, and a lot of people do. And fame
Speaker 1: in its own way is very similar. Many many people
Speaker 1: aspire to fame through one avenue or another, and many
Speaker 1: of those people, the vast majority of those people do
Speaker 1: not end up attaining what they see as fame.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for a long segment of time, to be famous,
Speaker 2: you needed to have your face and your name on
Speaker 2: a screen somewhere, and a lot of times that was
Speaker 2: on a television inside someone's home or on a giant
Speaker 2: screen where your projected image becomes either the fantasy or
Speaker 2: the usually the fantasy and some right of the people
Speaker 2: who are viewing and looking at your face. And now
Speaker 2: that screen has moved to the palm of our hands
Speaker 2: as we walk around in different ways. Now you can
Speaker 2: be Instagram famous or YouTube famous. It's interesting how that
Speaker 2: has moved, but nothing about getting famous has really changed.
Speaker 1: That is absolutely true. So we find that the rough
Speaker 1: categories of fame, as we understand, and let's just define
Speaker 1: fame very very broadly as being known or familiar to
Speaker 1: a large number of your fellow human beings, yes, for
Speaker 1: one reason or other. Right, So there are a couple
Speaker 1: of different categories for this. There's fame in the realm
Speaker 1: of politics. A president of the United States is always
Speaker 1: going to be famous. They'll meet that definition of celebrity
Speaker 1: because a ton of people know who this.
Speaker 2: Person is and they're on screen a whole lot.
Speaker 1: And they're on screen a whole lot. And then there
Speaker 1: are people who are famous in some sort of religious
Speaker 1: or spiritual sphere. The pope is always going to be famous, always, right,
Speaker 1: And you could argue that that sphere has lost a
Speaker 1: little bit of power in an increasingly secular world, or
Speaker 1: a little bit of prominence, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But it's still an avenue of celebrity, right, or fame.
Speaker 1: And then of course there's the world of entertainment or
Speaker 1: the and you could you could say that famous athletes
Speaker 1: qualify as well in the world of entertainment.
Speaker 2: Oh, I would absolutely argue that.
Speaker 1: So I think they're related genres of that category. And
Speaker 1: then there is the much more controversial category that again
Speaker 1: people would say is in some cases very American. That
Speaker 1: is the category of infamy. Serial killers are often romanticized
Speaker 1: right there. Definitely they reach some status akin to that
Speaker 1: of fame, right, and other great criminals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people who find themselves in the news for one
Speaker 2: reason or another.
Speaker 1: And by the way, when we say great in this sense,
Speaker 1: we just mean they have committed crimes of an alarming magnitude.
Speaker 1: We don't mean they're the kind of people you want
Speaker 1: to hang out with at your local Applebee's and get
Speaker 1: that two for twenty.
Speaker 2: Which Paul is salivating right now thinking about that. By
Speaker 2: the way, go to your neighborhood Applebee's. It's a place
Speaker 2: to gather your friends and family for one of those
Speaker 2: special occasions or just on a Tuesday apple Bee's, you're
Speaker 2: going to find the finest beers on tap and some
Speaker 2: of the most delicious chicken things around and oh riblets,
Speaker 2: oh in riblets. Oh god, yeah, the ribblets. How could
Speaker 2: I forget the ribblets?
Speaker 1: So we want to be a clear Applebee's is not
Speaker 1: a sponsor this show. This is a this is an
Speaker 1: ongoing Paul said. Yet yeah, say yeah, this is an
Speaker 1: ongoing thing with us off off Mike, and maybe one
Speaker 1: day we can explain it in full. Maybe if we
Speaker 1: are on the big screen one day in an interview,
Speaker 1: we can say, David Letterman, that's a great question. But
Speaker 1: first let me tell you about our running inside joke
Speaker 1: regarding apple beans.
Speaker 2: Well, see, I just see you driving around in a
Speaker 2: car with Jerry Seinfeld, and then you guys should show
Speaker 2: up at an Applebee's and that's where the rest of
Speaker 2: the episode takes place.
Speaker 1: Why aren't you guys there first? That's also a fantastic idea.
Speaker 1: I wonder what his uh, what his opinion on Applebee's is, hmmm,
Speaker 1: because you see, he did attain fame.
Speaker 2: These levels of fame beyond most others.
Speaker 1: Right, he's one of the most famous, well known living comics,
Speaker 1: which places him squarely in the entertainment industry. And today,
Speaker 1: while we're looking at fame, we're focusing on the concept
Speaker 1: of acting. Quite a few of us when we were
Speaker 1: growing up, or quite a few of us listening today
Speaker 1: have aspirations to become actors, right to be on screen
Speaker 1: talent and the entertainment industry, or are working actors now
Speaker 1: to one degree or another. And it's no secret that
Speaker 1: this industry in particular is brutal. We did an episode
Speaker 1: exploring some of the darker aspects of this industry that
Speaker 1: have recently and thankfully finally become the subject of public scrutiny.
Speaker 1: We'll see how long it lasts and whether there's any
Speaker 1: actionable punishment or consequences for the people involved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we looked at an article from Wired twenty
Speaker 2: thirteen to get some kind of statistics about the state
Speaker 2: of the business of being an actor, I guess, and
Speaker 2: also the probability of someone becoming famous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so brace yourself. In this article for Wired,
Speaker 1: a mathematician named Samuel Arbsman attempts to quantify the ratio
Speaker 1: of famous people to the ratio of non famous people,
Speaker 1: anonymous people, sure, regular old people, regular old people aka
Speaker 1: us us everyone. Yeah, And he believed that an easy
Speaker 1: way to find the probability of anyone becoming famous in
Speaker 1: the most broad sense would be to note the number
Speaker 1: of Facebook entries in the category living people. And on
Speaker 1: January fifteenth, twenty thirteen, when he pulled this number, that
Speaker 1: category was six hundred and four thousand, one hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy four. Then he divided this by the world population,
Speaker 1: which on that same day, January fifteenth, twenty thirteen, was
Speaker 1: a little over seven billion people, and so on that
Speaker 1: basis he concludes that point zero zero zero zero eighty
Speaker 1: six of the world population, or about one in ten
Speaker 1: thousand people, is famous.
Speaker 2: Okay, one in ten thousand. That's still a lot of
Speaker 2: famous people.
Speaker 1: Still better odds than the lottery though.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But here's the thing. Most of the people that
Speaker 2: are watched on screen internationally, in let's say big Box
Speaker 2: office movies or in HBO shows or something that's been
Speaker 2: translated into other languages, they speak English.
Speaker 1: Ah, yes, good point. Most famous actors, most of the
Speaker 1: most famous actors, we should say, do speak English. So
Speaker 1: we need to correct for that. The total of English
Speaker 1: speaking persons on the planet. It's twenty thirteen was only
Speaker 1: one point four to nine billion, which means that point
Speaker 1: zero zero four one, or about point zero four percent
Speaker 1: of the English speaking world population is famous, or about
Speaker 1: one in two thousand. Okay, Then then back to actors.
Speaker 1: How many actors do we have in the States. Typically,
Speaker 1: one of the best ways to get statistics on a
Speaker 1: given profession in this country is to check with the
Speaker 1: US Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Speaker 2: Oh, the old BLS.
Speaker 1: The old BLS not to be mistaken with BLT, not
Speaker 1: near as delicious. The BLS estimates that the number of
Speaker 1: actors for twenty seventeen was thirteen thousand, five hundred and sixty.
Speaker 1: That works out to about two hundred and seventy one
Speaker 1: actors per state, which we know is obviously not true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, it's gotta be a lot higher than that.
Speaker 2: Even I feel like that number of people is just
Speaker 2: in LA. There are that many actors just in LA,
Speaker 2: I want to say, or at least twice more or
Speaker 2: three times more. So. If we take another group, the
Speaker 2: Actors Equity Association, they had over fifty one thousand members
Speaker 2: associated with them in twenty sixteen. So there you go.
Speaker 2: A lot more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, many, many more, And these sources don't agree. One
Speaker 1: of our questions has to immediately be when we're comparing sources,
Speaker 1: what gives?
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah.
Speaker 1: One reason for the BLS's underestimation of the number of
Speaker 1: actors might be because they only count you as an
Speaker 1: actor if you have a current acting job.
Speaker 2: Okay, that would make sense. So there are thirteen thousand
Speaker 2: employed actors at any given moment.
Speaker 1: And they also just as side note, Well almost visited
Speaker 1: this one, Matt. How much does the BLS estimate working
Speaker 1: actors make per hour?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Man, I can't believe we missed that. The BLS says
Speaker 2: the actors make an average of seventeen dollars and forty
Speaker 2: nine cents per hour.
Speaker 1: Again average.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's that is what Tom Cruise's numbers lumped
Speaker 2: in with the one extra that got paid I guess
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars or fifty dollars.
Speaker 1: Day or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so these averages are dangerous. These are far from
Speaker 1: accurate numbers. But according to the Actors' Equity Association, which
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, Matt, fewer than fourteen percent of actors
Speaker 1: were employed in twenty sixteen, and the statistics on actors
Speaker 1: not known to belong to the Actor's Equity Association is
Speaker 1: still an ambiguous, nebulous number. But that number would likely
Speaker 1: be considerably worse because there's not really a point to
Speaker 1: joining Actors' Equity if you are unemployed. So let's just
Speaker 1: do a thought excerpts. Well, besides the networking associated with that, oh,
Speaker 1: which is huge. That's a great point. That's a fantastic point. Okay,
Speaker 1: So bracketing that, let's do a thought exercise. Okay, if
Speaker 1: we multiply that labor and statistic number by say, let's
Speaker 1: just say ten, dream big, say ten, we can say
Speaker 1: that they were around one hundred thirty five six hundred
Speaker 1: actors in the US, which still seems like a low
Speaker 1: number to me. And if we multiply that number by
Speaker 1: point zero zero four to one, or by point zero
Speaker 1: four percent Arbsman's estimate of the percent of English speaking
Speaker 1: people who are famous, we can conclude that they're about
Speaker 1: fifty six English speaking actors currently working who are considered famous.
Speaker 1: There's a pretty off the cuff estimate, and it sounds
Speaker 1: kind of low to me. It sounds very low, to
Speaker 1: be honest with you.
Speaker 2: But that many actors in all of the TV shows
Speaker 2: right now there, and some of them would not be
Speaker 2: considered famous really unfortunately.
Speaker 1: But there have to be there. There have to be
Speaker 1: way more in that way, more, especially with the explosion
Speaker 1: of high quality television.
Speaker 2: Especially if you're looking at streaming services in all of
Speaker 2: the original content with new actors. Yeah, right, I would agree.
Speaker 1: And also if we're looking at you know, Instagram famous
Speaker 1: or YouTube famous, people who are famous on a specific platform.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So this is a situation where the final number is
Speaker 1: probably much higher, and that's great, that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: But the number of aspiring, non working actors we have
Speaker 1: to remember, is probably much much higher as well. What
Speaker 1: we're saying is, any way you slice it, the odds
Speaker 1: of success of reaching fame and the world of acting
Speaker 1: are very very extremely low.
Speaker 2: Way lower than you even think.
Speaker 1: Way way lower, way lower. Even with that, even with
Speaker 1: those numbers we just throughout there, you're it's still it's
Speaker 1: not as bad as like winning the power ball at
Speaker 1: the lottery. True, it's not that tough, but that's a
Speaker 1: horrible comparison. It's very difficult to demanding and brutal industry
Speaker 1: because it's an industry fraught with obscucation, sexism, racism, and agism.
Speaker 1: Those are all acknowledged too, They're part of the business.
Speaker 1: And then especially I'm not gonna get on the soapbox here.
Speaker 1: I'm sure longtime listeners, I'm sure you know what I'm
Speaker 1: going to say. It's fraught with nepotism, which is a
Speaker 1: terrible thing and makes for worse end results.
Speaker 2: And there's this element of pay to play and all
Speaker 2: of these other things that you can get into.
Speaker 1: Well. For instance, considered people who aspire to work at,
Speaker 1: for example, a publishing house or a high quality fashion magazine,
Speaker 1: they will typically enter into that realm through a low
Speaker 1: level position, often an internship, and that internship may be
Speaker 1: located in Los Angeles or in New York, and they
Speaker 1: will have to find some means of financial support just
Speaker 1: to afford rent in a terrible apartment. And this means
Speaker 1: that there's a built in, as you said, Matt, there's
Speaker 1: a built in pay to play aspect here that commonly
Speaker 1: pops up. And I want to take a note to
Speaker 1: say I really fundamentally enjoy a lot of movies featuring
Speaker 1: the actor known as Nicholas Cage.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm on board with you there.
Speaker 1: His real last name is Copola, and yes, related to
Speaker 1: the same Francis Ford Coppola. And one of the questions
Speaker 1: someone asked me off here somewhere, I can't remember why.
Speaker 1: I was talking about how I just love the insanity
Speaker 1: of the fight scenes, face off or whatever, and they said,
Speaker 1: do you believe that Nick Cage would be a famous
Speaker 1: actor if he were not in the Coppola dynasty? And
Speaker 1: I couldn't answer that question.
Speaker 2: I will answer that question, Okay, absolutely, there we go.
Speaker 2: There is a Nick Cage quality that you cannot get
Speaker 2: from anyone besides that, man, I'm.
Speaker 1: Telling you, And it sort of it speaks to the
Speaker 1: way in which we judge the performance of American actors. Right,
Speaker 1: Oh sure, have we mentioned this on the air before,
Speaker 1: the difference between European and American actors.
Speaker 2: No? Okay.
Speaker 1: So American actors often by and large are praised for
Speaker 1: their ability to consistently be themselves or their own brand
Speaker 1: in whatever film you see them in. Right, and even
Speaker 1: you know ones who are serted completely amazing masterclass actors.
Speaker 1: Al Pacino, for instance, is always some version of al Pacino, Right,
Speaker 1: A lot of those, A lot of those nuances that
Speaker 1: we see when he assumes different characters are still him
Speaker 1: doing the character.
Speaker 2: You're still getting pacino.
Speaker 1: You're still getting pacino.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's arguably what you're paying for as a studio, right.
Speaker 1: And in the European sphere, often actors are lauded for
Speaker 1: a very different reason, their ability to be chameleons, right
Speaker 1: to be so completely different from one fictional world to
Speaker 1: the next. So by that logic, for instance, Liam Neeson,
Speaker 1: despite being a European actor, fits into the American idea
Speaker 1: of a fantastic actor. What about some Idrisilba, Idrisilba, It's
Speaker 1: a different question. I haven't seen enough of his stuff
Speaker 1: to say, but most of what I've seen, he's recognizably
Speaker 1: Idris Ilbah.
Speaker 2: No man, I don't know if I agree, but let's
Speaker 2: go with it.
Speaker 1: No, I, you know, I this is just an opinion.
Speaker 2: I'm telling this is.
Speaker 1: Just an opinion. But but so the people who become
Speaker 1: a list, actors who despite the odds or because of
Speaker 1: the nepotism, reached that fabled position in the American zeitgeist,
Speaker 1: in the Western pantheon of entertainment, they will have not
Speaker 1: perfect lives, but they do have a position in life
Speaker 1: that many, many people aspire to reach, and we have
Speaker 1: to ask ourselves it's it's such again, it's such a trope.
Speaker 1: What have people done to get on this path? What
Speaker 1: have they done to get access? Just to get noticed
Speaker 1: by a director, by an agent, by someone they think
Speaker 1: they can provide them with opportunities. It's the age old
Speaker 1: question what would you do to be famous?
Speaker 2: And what would you allow to happen to you to
Speaker 2: reach that level?
Speaker 1: Right, however, reluctantly, however, against your better judgment, what would
Speaker 1: you feel coerced into doing? Granted, we don't want to
Speaker 1: make it look impossible, some people do luck out. Those
Speaker 1: stories of you know, someone just being recognized in them,
Speaker 1: all those things happen. Harrison Ford I believe, got cast
Speaker 1: as Hans Solo when he was doing some carpentry work
Speaker 1: on a set. And some people work hard, just not
Speaker 1: just in the right place at the right time, but
Speaker 1: they're determined, they're tenacious. They are doing eighty hours a
Speaker 1: week of legwork, auditions, practicing Chara character yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and over and over. And in that case it's it's
Speaker 1: I would say it's disrespectful for the Bureau of Labor
Speaker 1: and statistics to consider them unemployed. Yeah, that's a heck
Speaker 1: of a job, you know, and probably one of the
Speaker 1: most demanding.
Speaker 2: And some reason I want to put Steve Ashmi in there,
Speaker 2: but I don't know if it's right. Somebody who's just
Speaker 2: been doing roles forever and then finally like, oh, I
Speaker 2: actually get a show now in like twenty ten. Big
Speaker 2: fan of his. Yeavy too.
Speaker 1: So some people also network, As we mentioned, they're looking
Speaker 1: for opportunities and access they could not otherwise find on
Speaker 1: their own. Today's episode, Fellow Conspiracy Realist is about one
Speaker 1: of these groups, a group that purports to provide great
Speaker 1: opportunity to provide personal and professional awakening, a group called Nexium.
Speaker 2: And we're going to dive deep into their origins and
Speaker 2: how it became a thing after a word from our sponsor.
Speaker 1: Here are the facts, So, Matt, we dug around and
Speaker 1: we went to the primary source to describe Nexium itself.
Speaker 1: It's spelled in XIVM, but it's pronounced nexium, yes. And
Speaker 1: what exactly are they? What's their deal?
Speaker 2: Well, according to the splash page on their website, it's
Speaker 2: a company whose mission is to raise human awareness, foster
Speaker 2: and ethical humanitarian civilization and celebrate what it means to
Speaker 2: be human. That sounds nice, inspirational. Yeah, it sounds familiar
Speaker 2: to other groups that we've discussed before on this show,
Speaker 2: especially within the context of acting. It's making me think
Speaker 2: a little bit about scientology.
Speaker 1: I see. Yeah, the idea of self realization ultimately.
Speaker 2: And helping an actor become them their true selves in
Speaker 2: order to become the best actor possible.
Speaker 1: And if that sounds a little vague, they do go
Speaker 1: into further detail.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Nexium is a community guided by humanitarian principles
Speaker 2: that seek to empower people and answer important questions about
Speaker 2: what it means to be human. The Nexium philosophy is
Speaker 2: expressed through a series of companies and initiatives, all of
Speaker 2: which were designed to broaden the way we currently think
Speaker 2: about problems and help create solutions for a kinder, more sustainable,
Speaker 2: ethical world. With unique tools that facilitate success both internally
Speaker 2: and externally, Nexium helps people realize the potential that exists
Speaker 2: within them.
Speaker 1: Okay, admittedly sounds pretty vague, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really get anything. There are techniques that
Speaker 2: are going to help me become me to my full potential.
Speaker 1: So we if we were to spitball and speculate, we
Speaker 1: could say that one of the seminars or sessions might
Speaker 1: be something about confidence in social or business functions.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, perhaps just in any interaction whatsoever? How do
Speaker 2: you display yourself?
Speaker 1: Little body language, some public speaking, some maybe some ideas
Speaker 1: about how to frame what information you present? Sure, how
Speaker 1: to manage your reactions? Scientology does it a lot of
Speaker 1: that as well, but so do a ton of other things.
Speaker 1: We often call them life coaching stuff.
Speaker 2: Right Benino Massaro had some of that stuff.
Speaker 1: Sure he did. I'm sure he did or does. But
Speaker 1: on balance this seems pretty harmless. Sure believe in yourself? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's wrong with that?
Speaker 2: We'll teach you how to do it for whatever money?
Speaker 1: Right? Right? It does have a price tag attached. So
Speaker 1: where did Nexium come from? It is the brainchat the
Speaker 1: founder Keith Ranieri, which is how we found it pronounced
Speaker 1: the multiple media sources Rnieri, And it evolved from his
Speaker 1: earlier work with something called the Consumers Byline Incorporated. That's
Speaker 1: buy lne.
Speaker 2: That sounds familiar, consumers byline, you know why?
Speaker 1: Why's that?
Speaker 2: Because a byline sounds like an upline or a down line.
Speaker 2: Do you know why because it's a multi level marketing scheme.
Speaker 2: It was broken up when it was investigated for being
Speaker 2: a pyramid scheme.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so. Keith was born back in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: in New York. He graduated Rocklands County Day School, a
Speaker 1: private school, in nineteen seventy seven, and he was thought
Speaker 1: to be a very intelligent young man. In nineteen eighty two,
Speaker 1: he graduated from the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute with three separate
Speaker 1: Bchelor degrees.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Shortly thereafter he joined Amway.
Speaker 2: Oh, another one of those byline wayline uplindalens.
Speaker 1: He is considered a boy genius at the time, a
Speaker 1: title he really leans into later in life.
Speaker 2: Yeah. He once had on his website that at the
Speaker 2: age of one, he was speaking in complete sentences, which
Speaker 2: is a huge achievement and good for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm skeptical, but sure, sure, sure, it's possible.
Speaker 2: He taught himself how to play concert level piano by
Speaker 2: age twelve, which is a possibility.
Speaker 1: Also a possibility, possible. So. He's spent about a year
Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty eight to nineteen eighty nine working at
Speaker 1: the New York State Parole Board as a programmer for
Speaker 1: around thirty two thousand dollars a year, and then he
Speaker 1: left to become a sales trainer for something called pre
Speaker 1: Paid Legal, which was a marketing okay, okay, and then
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety he opens the consumers byline that you
Speaker 1: had mentioned had some problems.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a marketing club and it would hook
Speaker 2: its members up. It would just give him all these
Speaker 2: discounts on all kinds of different consumer goods. And his
Speaker 2: partners at the time were Karen Tarranner terrainer not exactly
Speaker 2: shroud to pronounce her name, and Pam Kaffritz. Now, at
Speaker 2: this time, Pam is his longtime girlfriend. Pam. I don't
Speaker 2: know if they're still together or not. I don't keep
Speaker 2: up in the celebrity news. Unfortunately, I'm not sure at
Speaker 2: this time in twenty eighteen when we're recording this, if
Speaker 2: Pam was still his girlfriend.
Speaker 1: I like that he may have evolved past that. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I like how you bring that idea of celebrity back, right,
Speaker 1: the true one of the huge religions of our current society. Right,
Speaker 1: there's money and then there's fame.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.
Speaker 1: By nineteen ninety four, multiple agencies are investigating consumers byline, because,
Speaker 1: as you said earlier, Matt, they believe it is a
Speaker 1: pyramid scheme. By nineteen ninety six, Keith and his partners
Speaker 1: settle with the New York State Attorney's Office to end
Speaker 1: the probe of consumers byline. They don't admit any guilt, Nope,
Speaker 1: but they do agree not to promote, offer, or grant
Speaker 1: participation in an illegal chain of distribution scheme.
Speaker 2: Oh well, that's nice, she said.
Speaker 1: We're not guilty. We also promise not to do these
Speaker 1: things anymore. And as part of the settlement, Nier agreed
Speaker 1: to pay a forty thousand dollars fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, forty thousand dollars not that crazy. Who knows how
Speaker 2: much money they were actually raking it.
Speaker 1: Right right there? Are No, I don't know. I'm sure
Speaker 1: the courts found something, but I don't know what the
Speaker 1: real amount is.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then everything changes in nineteen ninety seven when he
Speaker 1: meets a person who later becomes influential in his life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nancy Salzman. She's a psychotherapist who was running the
Speaker 2: International Center for Change, And basically Ranieri became her mentor,
Speaker 2: and he started teaching her these methods that he had
Speaker 2: been I guess thinking about or maybe was coming up
Speaker 2: with at the time, and he called them rational inquiry. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: she was, well, she was kind of like subject zero
Speaker 2: for what would then become Nexium.
Speaker 1: Right, and we're at that point in the timeline. In
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, ornier A creates Executive Success Programs or
Speaker 1: esp OH, and it's later going to be named Nexium.
Speaker 1: Nancy Salzman is president, and Karen and Pam also join
Speaker 1: up as partners. By October twenty seventeen, Nexium states that
Speaker 1: its seminars and programs have provided tools, coaching, techniques, and
Speaker 1: training to sixteen thousand people across thirty different countries. Rnier
Speaker 1: A becomes a niche celebrity of his own, especially within
Speaker 1: the organization. He meets with the Dalai Lama on May sixth,
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. The Nexium Group purchases multiple buildings
Speaker 1: in the Albany, New York area.
Speaker 3: But what is it?
Speaker 1: Exactly? From their own copy and from your accurate description, Matt,
Speaker 1: it sounds like Nexium is a life coaching organization, but
Speaker 1: critics and legal filings have referred to it as an MLM,
Speaker 1: a scheme, a pyramid, yeah, a multi level marketing scheme.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: In twenty twelve, the Times Union, which is based in Albany,
Speaker 1: publishes a report wherein experts argue that rnier A is
Speaker 1: not a life coach and more of a cult leader.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not even an MLM, just top of the chain
Speaker 2: guy and actual cult leader is what this paper is saying.
Speaker 2: And you can read this article right now if you
Speaker 2: google it.
Speaker 1: And it's pretty good. But it definitely takes that stance.
Speaker 1: And I think there was an earlier article in the
Speaker 1: two thousands from Forbes that had some of his supporters
Speaker 1: say they had attended seminars or sessions and found it worthwhile.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so we do want to be fair in
Speaker 1: that regard, so when they say he's a cult leader,
Speaker 1: they don't just throw the C word out and then
Speaker 1: let it play. They have some specific accusations against him.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The article is titled Secrets of Nexium again spelled NXIVM,
Speaker 2: and they go into allegations of all kinds of different
Speaker 2: sexual manipulation, both of adults and also people who are
Speaker 2: under age women specifically they're also they go into these
Speaker 2: murky possibilities about illegal financing financing schemes within the organization.
Speaker 2: There are multiple interviews with people who have been involved
Speaker 2: at one time or another with Nexium, and we have Oh,
Speaker 2: they also speak about a relentless intimidation of anybody trying
Speaker 2: to break away from the organization. Does that sound familiar
Speaker 2: to any of the other organizations we've discussed in the past, Sure,
Speaker 2: specifically people who are questioning the internal practices of Nexium,
Speaker 2: people who know how it functions.
Speaker 1: Or claimed to yes. So maybe this is just a
Speaker 1: hip piece. Perhaps, perhaps let's hold off judgment for a moment.
Speaker 1: We have to pause here and introduce another character in
Speaker 1: the story, one of Vernire's most high profile followers in Nexium.
Speaker 1: Her name is Alison Mack.
Speaker 2: If her name sounds familiar, that's because she's an actor
Speaker 2: of somewhat of note. And let's talk about her backstory.
Speaker 2: So she was born on July twenty ninth, nineteen eighty two,
Speaker 2: in West Germany. She has been an actor for most
Speaker 2: of her life. Her first major role was in the
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers series one that you probably remember if you
Speaker 2: were my age just turned thirty five, seventh Heaven, and
Speaker 2: she played a teenage cutter, which was a thing that
Speaker 2: I had never seen before in my life. When I
Speaker 2: was at that stage watching it with my family, and
Speaker 2: I actually remember that wow, because it wasn't a huge role.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was a I guess, a groundbreaking or
Speaker 1: influential role in the public discourse. And she continued as
Speaker 1: a working actor. Again, She's on the way, She's on
Speaker 1: the path to which so many people aspire. In two
Speaker 1: thousand and one, she landed a role as Chloe Sullivan,
Speaker 1: one of Clark Kent's best friends, in the popular series
Speaker 1: Smallville that went on and on for multiple seasons. In
Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, then Alison Mack reportedly joined the
Speaker 1: Vancouver chapter of Nexium, along with another Smallville colleague, the
Speaker 1: actor Kristin Kruk. Mac rose through the ranks, eventually becoming
Speaker 1: the organization's top recruiter, attempting to recruit other actors of
Speaker 1: notes such as Emma Watson or entertainers like Kelly Clarkson
Speaker 1: and feminist writers into what she described as a quote
Speaker 1: human development and women's movement organization. Many young actors were
Speaker 1: joining up in hopes of attaining further personal and professional success.
Speaker 1: After all, Alison Mack is a star, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's got to be doing something right. I should
Speaker 2: follow in her footsteps. Let me listen to what she's
Speaker 2: got to say. But then rumors of even more salacious
Speaker 2: occurrences within the Nexium organization begin to surface. So again,
Speaker 2: what exactly is happening within this organization at the events,
Speaker 2: maybe behind closed doors. We'll get into that again right
Speaker 2: after a quick word from our sponsor.
Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy.
Speaker 1: It's time to peek behind the curtain of Nexium. As
Speaker 1: it turns out, Alison Mack was one of the top
Speaker 1: recruiters for Nexium, but she wasn't just recruiting for Nexium
Speaker 1: in general, and she was not just hooking people up
Speaker 1: with acting gigs or promising them the sort of personal
Speaker 1: realizations that would lead to more success in the entertainment industry.
Speaker 1: She was recruiting for two other inner groups, just for women.
Speaker 1: One was named j NES capital j lower case ness
Speaker 1: like locknest, monster Us, Janus, and this was the recruiting
Speaker 1: pool for something else, an organization. Outsiders were never supposed
Speaker 1: to know about a secret group, and these recruits who
Speaker 1: went through Nexium went through JNS and joined this other
Speaker 1: group where a varying ages they were entering a secret
Speaker 1: sisterhood sometimes referred to as dominos osequious sororirium or dos.
Speaker 2: Dos okay, or the vow.
Speaker 1: The dos. The Latin there means something like the obsequious
Speaker 1: sisters okay, and it's a loaded term. In a groundbreaking
Speaker 1: report from October twenty seventeen, writing for The New York Times,
Speaker 1: journalist Barry Meyer details what women had to do in
Speaker 1: order to gain admission into this group. We do want
Speaker 1: to tell you ahead of time what we are about
Speaker 1: to discuss in this in this segment may be disturbing
Speaker 1: for some audience members.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you've had any experience a kin to abuse
Speaker 2: in this realm, just go ahead and either skip forward
Speaker 2: or maybe just listen to the next episode. Here we go. So,
Speaker 2: the first thing that happens is that they become or
Speaker 2: they call themselves and kind of take a vow to
Speaker 2: become slaves with the person above them, the woman above them,
Speaker 2: within their hierarchy, and that person is going to be
Speaker 2: considered their master. And there are six of them generally
Speaker 2: how it functions in a cluster. So there's one master
Speaker 2: and then six slaves.
Speaker 1: So seven people total, and these potential slaves, in order
Speaker 1: to join the organization or to join DOS, they were
Speaker 1: required to give this master, whomever that person might be,
Speaker 1: always a woman in this case, they were required to
Speaker 1: give this person collateral, that's what it was called. These
Speaker 1: would be in the forms of naked photographs, sexually explicit photographs,
Speaker 1: or other compromising material.
Speaker 2: And some people wrote down just past transgressions, things that
Speaker 2: they had done wrong, that they knew were wrong, that
Speaker 2: would harm somebody else if that information came out.
Speaker 1: Right, things that could harm their own reputation as they
Speaker 1: pursued celebrity, or things that could harm the reputation of
Speaker 1: their loved ones. And the expectation here the implication was
Speaker 1: that should they break the valve of silence, should they
Speaker 1: say anything about this group, that information would be exposed,
Speaker 1: leaked to the public. The word for this is blackmail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but ben trust goes both ways. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I yes, I don't agree in this case, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I know what you mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't agree either that. It's just that's scary.
Speaker 2: And again it harkens back to another group.
Speaker 1: To the audit system, right, yeah, or the rundowns.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to record everything that you say when
Speaker 2: we were going through your darkest, deepest past.
Speaker 1: Just in case, just for our records.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So at this point some of the people entering into
Speaker 1: this organization had heard they might receive a small tattoo
Speaker 1: in the process. Instead, they were told to disrobe and
Speaker 1: lay on a massage table and they were ordered to say, master,
Speaker 1: please brand me. It would be an honor.
Speaker 2: And that's a quote that's not like a you say
Speaker 2: something like this, that's the value take.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's verbatim. Female doctor. Allegedly, a member of Nexium
Speaker 1: named Danielle Roberts would use a cauterizing device to seer
Speaker 1: a two inch square symbol below each woman's hip. And
Speaker 1: this procedure took about twenty to thirty very very painful minutes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And in some of these articles you can read
Speaker 2: some of the women who joined this group described the
Speaker 2: process where there are at least three other women holding
Speaker 2: down their legs in their arms while they're in this
Speaker 2: device this chair or the massage table, I guess, and
Speaker 2: then the process of just screaming and disassociating as it's
Speaker 2: going on because they're in so much pain. It's rather horrifying.
Speaker 2: And this one with Danielle Roberts is this is the
Speaker 2: one we know about, right, because there are groups, there
Speaker 2: are nexium groups all over in so many countries, in
Speaker 2: Canada and Mexico and the United States and other countries.
Speaker 2: This is just the one group that we're aware of
Speaker 2: where this process took place.
Speaker 1: Exactly. And what we find is that after being branded
Speaker 1: several of these women, multiple women allege that when they
Speaker 1: were in this dominant submissive relationship with their quote unquote
Speaker 1: master in a super organization, they were coerced into sexual
Speaker 1: activities with Keith Ernire himself. Who oh wait, they don't
Speaker 1: call him Keith by the way, in the group.
Speaker 2: No, they call him the Vanguard.
Speaker 1: Which I think is a lame, lame name. Lame nickname,
Speaker 1: the Vanguard.
Speaker 2: I would have really liked it if I was still
Speaker 2: playing EverQuest like, I would have thought, Man, that's a
Speaker 2: cool name, the Vanguard. I like that.
Speaker 1: In addition to sexual exploitation for the pleasure of the Vanguard,
Speaker 1: other women and survivors of this situation say that Mac
Speaker 1: and other members required them to do forced labor or
Speaker 1: menial task. They had to do this without question. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it didn't matter what it was around the house, chores,
Speaker 1: guard work, et cetera. And for this Allegedly, the Vanguard
Speaker 1: would then pay mac or other masters. So if we're
Speaker 1: keeping count right now, that's sex trafficking, blackmail, blackmail right
Speaker 1: and forced labor. If we're being held by the US
Speaker 1: legal code rather than the vision of the Vanguard, I
Speaker 1: just can't say that name with a serious tom. But
Speaker 1: there's more right. Additionally, he had very very rigid opinions
Speaker 1: on how people should conduct any aspect of their lives.
Speaker 1: Obviously a lot of cult leaders tale as old as time,
Speaker 1: are very controlling people. So what was one of his
Speaker 1: other conditions that came out?
Speaker 2: More trigger stuff here if you've ever had an eating
Speaker 2: disorder or something to that effect, or just know we're
Speaker 2: going to talk about some of that right now. So
Speaker 2: the Vanguard apparently liked women to look emaciated. That was
Speaker 2: his thing, so he would he preferred extremely thin women.
Speaker 2: So so the slaves had to stick to these extremely
Speaker 2: low calorie diets. They would document every piece of food
Speaker 2: that went into their mouths, and as punishment for not
Speaker 2: falling orders, women would, we are a lot of the
Speaker 2: times forced to attend these classes where they had to
Speaker 2: wear fake cow utters over their breasts, and people would
Speaker 2: call them terrible names and make fun of them for
Speaker 2: wearing it, and then they would even be threatened to
Speaker 2: be put into a cage because they can't fall orders.
Speaker 2: They're not doing the right thing and treated like cattle.
Speaker 1: They're being suppressive or they're being an obstacle to their
Speaker 1: own success.
Speaker 2: An sp right again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Nexium, by the way, did, or at least
Speaker 1: the Vanguard did use the term suppressives when he was
Speaker 1: getting into people's heads. At this point, it's not clear
Speaker 1: who Innxiom was aware of these activities, nor how many
Speaker 1: people were branded, because you know, it's the inner circle
Speaker 1: of an inner circle. However, we do know they ca
Speaker 1: himself was certainly aware. He sent a text message to
Speaker 1: a female follower discussing the branding, wherein he noted, quote
Speaker 1: not initially intended as my initials, but they rearranged it
Speaker 1: slightly for tribute, adding if it were Abraham Lincoln's or
Speaker 1: Bill Gates initials, no one would care. We should mention
Speaker 1: that the appearance of the brand it's yeah, let's talk
Speaker 1: about it. It's his initials in a It's a stylized
Speaker 1: K and a stylized R.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm looking at a picture from the New York Times.
Speaker 2: It's a woman named Sarah Edmondson who came forward with
Speaker 2: some of these I guess you have to call him allegations,
Speaker 2: but who came forward to discuss these things after she
Speaker 2: was branded. She showed hers on the New York Times website.
Speaker 2: And it just it looks almost like an X in
Speaker 2: a way that has some extra little flourishes to it.
Speaker 2: But it looks just like a terrible wound. Essentially, it's
Speaker 2: all right, it's awful.
Speaker 1: Yes, And so far there hasn't been a conviction for
Speaker 1: this yet, so you are a correct amount.
Speaker 2: We do.
Speaker 1: We do need to say that these are allegations. Technically, yeah,
Speaker 1: just got to hold back the vomit a little bit.
Speaker 1: So there's another controversy here. Like many organizations of this type,
Speaker 1: Keith and his followers spent a great deal of time
Speaker 1: attempting to turn or compromise wealthy and powerful and most
Speaker 1: importantly vulnerable.
Speaker 2: People and possibly influential.
Speaker 1: And possibly influential right, and that is again a textbook,
Speaker 1: textbook move from organizations that are like this. Two of
Speaker 1: its most notable successes in this regard are the Bronfman sisters,
Speaker 1: Sarah and Claire. They are believed to have squandered as
Speaker 1: much as one hundred and fifty million dollars of their
Speaker 1: inherited fortune on the organization. They are the heiresses to
Speaker 1: the Seagrum's fortune, the gin mm HM, and multiple other things.
Speaker 1: What we can imagine this one hundred and fifty million
Speaker 1: dollar price tag or heist of their family's fortune included
Speaker 1: sixty six million dollars allegedly used to cover Rnire's failed
Speaker 1: bets in the commodities market, thirty million to buy real
Speaker 1: estate in la and around the Albany area. Eleven million
Speaker 1: for a plane a jet actually, excuse me, Canada Air
Speaker 1: CL six hundred. That's a twenty two seat, two engine jet.
Speaker 1: Nice ride. Yeah, millions more to support the barrage of
Speaker 1: lawsuits that Nexium would wage against people who wronged Keith
Speaker 1: and so excuse me, the Vanguard in some way or
Speaker 1: were seen as a threat.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the father, mister Bronfan, he's a billionaire and
Speaker 2: his name's Edgar Edgar Bronfman. He attended an Exium session
Speaker 2: and after a little while he came out strongly against
Speaker 2: the organization, and he himself referred to it as a cult.
Speaker 2: Which is something to note here because the sisters who
Speaker 2: I believe are his daughters. Yes, came out and you know,
Speaker 2: are shelling out all now, I don't want to say
Speaker 2: his money, but the family's money, just shelling it out
Speaker 2: for this group that he believes as a cult.
Speaker 1: And you'll hear people allege that what the organization, when
Speaker 1: next him itself, was doing was exploiting or leveraging the
Speaker 1: problems that existed in the Brafmann family's inner relations. God
Speaker 1: should dislike of their father, right, he's a billionaire, he can't.
Speaker 1: That's one of the closest things a human being in
Speaker 1: this current system can have to godlike powers.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So the idea then is that their agency has been removed,
Speaker 1: they have been brainwashed somehow into supporting this guy, and
Speaker 1: that they are I mean, that's an interesting legal point.
Speaker 1: Are they complicit in these situations? We're about to find out.
Speaker 2: Yep, we know.
Speaker 1: We mentioned that excellent piece by Meyer in the New
Speaker 1: York Times in twenty seventeen. Ranier noticed it as well.
Speaker 1: He read it and then he fled for Mexico.
Speaker 2: Yes he did. By the way, it's called inside a
Speaker 2: secretive group where women are branded.
Speaker 1: And he was he was partnering with some of his followers,
Speaker 1: who already lived in a Mexican outpost for nexium with
Speaker 1: some again notable, high profile followers, and he was found
Speaker 1: shortly thereafter in a Puerto Vieta luxury gated community living
Speaker 1: with several women. Authorities took him into custody on a
Speaker 1: US warrant. Investigators said the women got into a high
Speaker 1: speed car chase. At this point, we don't have more
Speaker 1: information about that, but we can only imagine they were
Speaker 1: also apprehended. And so when he was arrested, he was
Speaker 1: transported to Texas and officially charged with sex trafficking. We
Speaker 1: shall also mention that numerous sources state he was involved
Speaker 1: with three women who were under the age of sixteen
Speaker 1: at the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is a whole other I was going to
Speaker 2: say bag of badgers, but let's not tante it off.
Speaker 2: It's a whole other thing.
Speaker 1: Let's at least save that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So now he and Dallas and Mack face a minimum
Speaker 1: of fifteen years each if convicted. That's a minimum of fifteen,
Speaker 1: but it could go all the way up to life.
Speaker 1: It probably won't because there's still a ton of money involved.
Speaker 2: He Yeah, I should be noticed that noted I think
Speaker 2: I'm not sure we even said it that Alison mac
Speaker 2: is also caught up in the illegal stuff. That's like
Speaker 2: you're saying they're both facing charges.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, absolutely, And at this point here in twenty
Speaker 1: eighteen August, as we record this, the case is still ongoing.
Speaker 1: We do have the official statement from Nexium. They are
Speaker 1: on pause. Ranier released a letter responding to these allegations
Speaker 1: as well at some point, but this is the official
Speaker 1: statement from Nexium on their current operations.
Speaker 2: It is with deep sadness that we inform you that
Speaker 2: we are suspending all Nexium ESP enrollment, curriculum and events
Speaker 2: until further notice. We will be in touch with more
Speaker 2: information for anyone currently enrolled in upcoming events and programs.
Speaker 2: While we are disappointed by the interruption of our operations,
Speaker 2: I believe it is warranted by the extraordinary circumstances facing
Speaker 2: the company at this time. We continue to believe in
Speaker 2: the value and importance of our work and look forward
Speaker 2: to resuming our efforts when these allegations are resolved. Okay,
Speaker 2: all right and.
Speaker 1: Short, simple to the point. Yeah, of course they're going
Speaker 1: to allied the details of the specific accusations.
Speaker 2: That's the word of your day, Allied, Ben Bolin, tell
Speaker 2: us what the what the word means?
Speaker 1: Okay, Allied e l ide means to leave or strike
Speaker 1: out to omit perfect. So he didn't lie, but they
Speaker 1: did elied. There you go the details, Okay. So Claire
Speaker 1: Bramffman was also arrested and in late July, just the
Speaker 1: month before we recorded this, she put up twenty five
Speaker 1: million dollars in cash and several high end properties, including
Speaker 1: a stake in a private island in Fiji, which is
Speaker 1: amazing to just own a private island as collateral on
Speaker 1: her one hundred million dollar bond. She faces racketeering charges
Speaker 1: in connection to her role in the Nexium functions, according
Speaker 1: to the court documents, So she's going down more for
Speaker 1: financial shenanigans, of which there are quite a few. You
Speaker 1: can read more about that in an excellent article from
Speaker 1: Oh Gosh way back in twenty ten Vanity Fair. It's
Speaker 1: called the Heiresses and the Cults.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's something really important we have to mention here, Ben.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of people who would consider themselves
Speaker 2: members or are members of Nexium who had absolutely no
Speaker 2: knowledge of any of these things that were going on,
Speaker 2: and didn't even know that or didn't feel at all
Speaker 2: like this, like this company did anything besides help them.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Because again, sixteen thousand or so people participated.
Speaker 1: The majority probably just attended a handful of seminars and
Speaker 1: then left, perhaps feeling better about themselves, perhaps and more confident.
Speaker 1: Maybe the classes even have measurable positive impacts on their lives.
Speaker 1: Of the victims who've come forward, we also have to
Speaker 1: note that they're likely more who, for one reason or another,
Speaker 1: are too intimidated to take these stories public.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and perhaps they can feel emboldened in a way
Speaker 2: or empowered by having some of these stories come out.
Speaker 2: And you know, perhaps you were a victim and there
Speaker 2: you can be supported.
Speaker 1: Now And what about the future for Ranierre, mac and more.
Speaker 1: As we said, there is still a ton of so
Speaker 1: much money at play, and it maybe some time before
Speaker 1: anyone gets convict. Did both of these individuals, Alison and
Speaker 1: Keith pled not guilty. One note about Ranieri's finances. That's
Speaker 1: going to be a huge issue for his legal team,
Speaker 1: because apparently he did not have a bank account, yeah,
Speaker 1: nor driver's license. And of course he started encrypting email
Speaker 1: and tossed his phone as soon as the new York
Speaker 1: Times article went live, and.
Speaker 2: It is fascinating how much she, I don't know, tried
Speaker 2: to give himself plausible deniability about some of that stuff.
Speaker 1: Right exactly, tried to be in the operative phrase there.
Speaker 1: Alison Mack, as we record this is currently out on bail,
Speaker 1: paid a five million dollar bond and she is living
Speaker 1: at her parents' house. At this point. Observers suspect mac
Speaker 1: will likely attempt to plea bargain. This would not be
Speaker 1: out of the realm of possibility. She could claim that she,
Speaker 1: like her victims, was psychologically manipulated courst and therefore controlled
Speaker 1: by the Vanguard. And it's an argument that prosecutors or
Speaker 1: a jury may well accept.
Speaker 2: And there's something to be said there perhaps. I mean,
Speaker 2: we say it's an argument because that's the way you
Speaker 2: would frame it in a court of law, but psychologically
Speaker 2: there's some probably truth to that.
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely absolutely. And then we have one more tidbit
Speaker 1: about Keith Ranier himself.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, his lawyers requested a ten million dollar bond
Speaker 2: and he was completely denied bail.
Speaker 1: And that was denied. After June fifth of twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: they filed it. Then he was arrested on March twenty
Speaker 1: sixth of this year. That's when they got him in
Speaker 1: Mexico and brought him to Texas. Mac Also, interestingly enough,
Speaker 1: in an earlier interview, she told The New York Times
Speaker 1: magazine that the branding was her idea. Yep. And their
Speaker 1: trial is set to begin on October first of this year,
Speaker 1: so there will be more to come. This is an
Speaker 1: ongoing story.
Speaker 2: There's a lot coming out right now. The day that
Speaker 2: we're recording this, Catherine Oxenberg, who was a star on
Speaker 2: the show Dynasty, just came forward discussing her daughter who
Speaker 2: got caught up in the organization. So yeah, it's going
Speaker 2: to keep happening.
Speaker 1: It's going to keep happening. There's going to be more
Speaker 1: news hitting the airwaves soon regarding this situation, and we
Speaker 1: would like to stay up to date. We'll almost certainly
Speaker 1: have to do an update once the trial goes through
Speaker 1: to see how that all shakes out. We'd also like
Speaker 1: to hear from you, especially if you are an aspiring
Speaker 1: actor a working actor. First, congratulations, it is a very
Speaker 1: difficult industry. Second, have you run into things like this?
Speaker 1: Have you seen organizations promising you some sort of access
Speaker 1: or influence or greater personal self realization. If so, what
Speaker 1: are the names of those organizations? Do you think their
Speaker 1: aims were legitimate? Do you think there was something else
Speaker 1: at play?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Is there anything we could look into?
Speaker 1: Send it our way, and we'd like to thank you
Speaker 1: so much for listening. NOL, like all of us, is
Speaker 1: working on any number of secret projects. We can't wait
Speaker 1: to tell you about those. Paul, Matt and I will
Speaker 1: at some point get to an Applebee's made a covenant.
Speaker 1: We did for the record. We did for the record,
Speaker 1: if you follow us on social media, we did show
Speaker 1: up to that mof ON meeting.
Speaker 2: Yeah we did.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Matt and I went to the Georgia chapter of
Speaker 1: the Mutual UFO Network and I'll admit it, man, I
Speaker 1: was surprised by how packed it was.
Speaker 2: It was crazy packed. You walk into the library in Tucker, Georgia,
Speaker 2: you hang a left and there's a big meeting room.
Speaker 2: Most of the chairs are filled and people were being
Speaker 2: very cordial and just listening. The meeting was run very well.
Speaker 2: When you maybe it's just the vision that I have
Speaker 2: sometimes when you were talking about a group of people
Speaker 2: who collectively have some belief in the unidentified flying objects
Speaker 2: in aerial phenomena that perhaps we're all a little bit strange.
Speaker 2: I'm including myself in this group. By the way, the
Speaker 2: human beings that were there in that room, assuming they
Speaker 2: were all human beings, huh, I mean, it was so
Speaker 2: refreshing that I felt like we were all just regular people.
Speaker 2: Is that weird?
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2: It was crazy refreshing. Lots of good people there.
Speaker 1: Too, and so we would like to follow up in
Speaker 1: the future with some of the details about Muffin in
Speaker 1: a separate episode, maybe bring somebody from there to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about their experiences there. Who doesn't love
Speaker 1: a good UFO story. And then we found some other
Speaker 1: things that we thought would be of immense.
Speaker 2: Interest to you, some specific cases.
Speaker 1: Some specific cases, fellow listeners. If you'd like to hear
Speaker 1: a little bit more about mouf On or what we
Speaker 1: ended up doing there on that Saturday, then check us
Speaker 1: out on social media. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 1: and Twitter. We particularly like to recommend Here's where it
Speaker 1: gets Crazy our community page, which is sort of enough
Speaker 1: about us, what about you kind of thing where you
Speaker 1: can meet with the most important part of this show,
Speaker 1: your fellow listeners. We've got some excellent moderators. The meme
Speaker 1: game on that show, M E M E is a
Speaker 1: plus plus double good top of the line.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you know you do hit up in Applebee's,
Speaker 2: don't forget to get a Mucho frozen Strawberry Summer Squeeze.
Speaker 2: They're only there for a time.
Speaker 4: You guys.
Speaker 1: He's googling the menu.
Speaker 2: Yep, chickens fingers are still there. The shrimp wanton stirfries
Speaker 2: to die for, So just don't don't forget it so
Speaker 2: interesting And that's the end of this classic episode. If
Speaker 2: you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you
Speaker 2: can get into contact with us in a number of
Speaker 2: different ways. One of the best is to give us
Speaker 2: a call. Our number is one eight three three st
Speaker 2: d WYTK. If you don't want to do that, you
Speaker 2: can send us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
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