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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist. Tonight, we returned to you with a

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Speaker 1: classic episode about how things can go wrong in the

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Speaker 1: pursuit of fame. We've talked a lot about cults. We've

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Speaker 1: talked a lot about cult like or cultic organizations, and

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Speaker 1: not too long ago we learned about something called how

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Speaker 1: would you pronounce this? Nexium?

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Speaker 2: That's it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it kind of reads like kind of Roman numerally

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Speaker 3: you see at the end of a movie, which may

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Speaker 3: well be by the by design because it is a

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Speaker 3: very hollywoody cult. We covered this pretty early, not to

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Speaker 3: be all right, we found out about it first, but

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Speaker 3: it was kind of weird how early we found out

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Speaker 3: about the story, and then it became a documentary. We

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Speaker 3: actually ended up interviewing somebody a little later, Sean Bright, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: who was kind of a person who had escaped this cult,

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Speaker 3: and he had some very interesting things to say about it,

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Speaker 3: and I think for me that was one of the

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Speaker 3: most illuminating in terms of what it's like inside of

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Speaker 3: cult interviews that I've ever been a part of. But

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Speaker 3: this episode here is more of a primer on the

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Speaker 3: whole deal.

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Speaker 2: Hey, let's get into.

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Speaker 4: It, from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History

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Speaker 4: is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now

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Speaker 4: or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt nol

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Speaker 2: Is on Adventures.

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Speaker 1: And they call me Ben. We are joined with our

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Speaker 1: super producer Paul Bolo Decand that's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: an inside joke. I don't know if we'll explain it

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Speaker 1: in this episode.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, speaking of Bolo, be on the lookout for

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Speaker 2: more specific information about the tour that we're going on

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Speaker 2: in October.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the rumors are true. We are coming to a

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Speaker 1: town hopefully near you, on our first ever US tour,

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Speaker 1: So check out. We'll have some more information. We'll also

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Speaker 1: have probably some promos running for it. You can hit

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Speaker 1: us up directly Conspiracy HowStuffWorks dot Com with any specific questions.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime, you are you, and you are here,

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Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: All right, we're here, this is the thing, it's happening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I wonder how many of you had had dreams of

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Speaker 2: becoming famous or an actor or maybe a famous actor.

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Speaker 2: Usually you don't have dreams of becoming an unknown character.

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Speaker 1: Actor, right, There are very few people who say grew

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Speaker 1: up in acting dynasties and you know, they were a

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Speaker 1: Barrymore or a Coppola or something, and then they decided,

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Speaker 1: I hate living up to my parents' expectations. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: run away and be a CPA and chase my dreams,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, So this is an

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Speaker 1: interesting question too, especially here in the US, where the

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Speaker 1: desire for fame is commodified, it's idealized. It's so common

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Speaker 1: that it's an accepted part of stories in almost any

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Speaker 1: genre of fiction. And you know, most people, it's similar

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Speaker 1: to when we ask the question about whether or not

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Speaker 1: you wanted to be an astronaut when you grew up.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, a lot of people do. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people did, and a lot of people do. And fame

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Speaker 1: in its own way is very similar. Many many people

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Speaker 1: aspire to fame through one avenue or another, and many

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Speaker 1: of those people, the vast majority of those people do

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Speaker 1: not end up attaining what they see as fame.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and for a long segment of time, to be famous,

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Speaker 2: you needed to have your face and your name on

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Speaker 2: a screen somewhere, and a lot of times that was

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Speaker 2: on a television inside someone's home or on a giant

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Speaker 2: screen where your projected image becomes either the fantasy or

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Speaker 2: the usually the fantasy and some right of the people

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Speaker 2: who are viewing and looking at your face. And now

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Speaker 2: that screen has moved to the palm of our hands

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Speaker 2: as we walk around in different ways. Now you can

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Speaker 2: be Instagram famous or YouTube famous. It's interesting how that

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Speaker 2: has moved, but nothing about getting famous has really changed.

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Speaker 1: That is absolutely true. So we find that the rough

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Speaker 1: categories of fame, as we understand, and let's just define

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Speaker 1: fame very very broadly as being known or familiar to

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Speaker 1: a large number of your fellow human beings, yes, for

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Speaker 1: one reason or other. Right, So there are a couple

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Speaker 1: of different categories for this. There's fame in the realm

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Speaker 1: of politics. A president of the United States is always

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Speaker 1: going to be famous. They'll meet that definition of celebrity

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Speaker 1: because a ton of people know who this.

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Speaker 2: Person is and they're on screen a whole lot.

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Speaker 1: And they're on screen a whole lot. And then there

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Speaker 1: are people who are famous in some sort of religious

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Speaker 1: or spiritual sphere. The pope is always going to be famous, always, right,

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Speaker 1: And you could argue that that sphere has lost a

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Speaker 1: little bit of power in an increasingly secular world, or

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Speaker 1: a little bit of prominence, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: But it's still an avenue of celebrity, right, or fame.

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Speaker 1: And then of course there's the world of entertainment or

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Speaker 1: the and you could you could say that famous athletes

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Speaker 1: qualify as well in the world of entertainment.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I would absolutely argue that.

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Speaker 1: So I think they're related genres of that category. And

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Speaker 1: then there is the much more controversial category that again

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Speaker 1: people would say is in some cases very American. That

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Speaker 1: is the category of infamy. Serial killers are often romanticized

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Speaker 1: right there. Definitely they reach some status akin to that

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Speaker 1: of fame, right, and other great criminals.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, people who find themselves in the news for one

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Speaker 2: reason or another.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, when we say great in this sense,

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Speaker 1: we just mean they have committed crimes of an alarming magnitude.

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Speaker 1: We don't mean they're the kind of people you want

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Speaker 1: to hang out with at your local Applebee's and get

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Speaker 1: that two for twenty.

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Speaker 2: Which Paul is salivating right now thinking about that. By

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Speaker 2: the way, go to your neighborhood Applebee's. It's a place

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Speaker 2: to gather your friends and family for one of those

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Speaker 2: special occasions or just on a Tuesday apple Bee's, you're

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Speaker 2: going to find the finest beers on tap and some

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Speaker 2: of the most delicious chicken things around and oh riblets,

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Speaker 2: oh in riblets. Oh god, yeah, the ribblets. How could

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Speaker 2: I forget the ribblets?

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Speaker 1: So we want to be a clear Applebee's is not

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Speaker 1: a sponsor this show. This is a this is an

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Speaker 1: ongoing Paul said. Yet yeah, say yeah, this is an

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Speaker 1: ongoing thing with us off off Mike, and maybe one

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Speaker 1: day we can explain it in full. Maybe if we

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Speaker 1: are on the big screen one day in an interview,

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Speaker 1: we can say, David Letterman, that's a great question. But

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Speaker 1: first let me tell you about our running inside joke

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Speaker 1: regarding apple beans.

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Speaker 2: Well, see, I just see you driving around in a

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Speaker 2: car with Jerry Seinfeld, and then you guys should show

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Speaker 2: up at an Applebee's and that's where the rest of

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Speaker 2: the episode takes place.

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Speaker 1: Why aren't you guys there first? That's also a fantastic idea.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what his uh, what his opinion on Applebee's is, hmmm,

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Speaker 1: because you see, he did attain fame.

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Speaker 2: These levels of fame beyond most others.

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Speaker 1: Right, he's one of the most famous, well known living comics,

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Speaker 1: which places him squarely in the entertainment industry. And today,

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Speaker 1: while we're looking at fame, we're focusing on the concept

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Speaker 1: of acting. Quite a few of us when we were

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Speaker 1: growing up, or quite a few of us listening today

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Speaker 1: have aspirations to become actors, right to be on screen

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Speaker 1: talent and the entertainment industry, or are working actors now

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Speaker 1: to one degree or another. And it's no secret that

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Speaker 1: this industry in particular is brutal. We did an episode

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Speaker 1: exploring some of the darker aspects of this industry that

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Speaker 1: have recently and thankfully finally become the subject of public scrutiny.

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Speaker 1: We'll see how long it lasts and whether there's any

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Speaker 1: actionable punishment or consequences for the people involved.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And we looked at an article from Wired twenty

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Speaker 2: thirteen to get some kind of statistics about the state

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Speaker 2: of the business of being an actor, I guess, and

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Speaker 2: also the probability of someone becoming famous.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so brace yourself. In this article for Wired,

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Speaker 1: a mathematician named Samuel Arbsman attempts to quantify the ratio

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Speaker 1: of famous people to the ratio of non famous people,

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Speaker 1: anonymous people, sure, regular old people, regular old people aka

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Speaker 1: us us everyone. Yeah, And he believed that an easy

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Speaker 1: way to find the probability of anyone becoming famous in

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Speaker 1: the most broad sense would be to note the number

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Speaker 1: of Facebook entries in the category living people. And on

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Speaker 1: January fifteenth, twenty thirteen, when he pulled this number, that

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Speaker 1: category was six hundred and four thousand, one hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy four. Then he divided this by the world population,

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Speaker 1: which on that same day, January fifteenth, twenty thirteen, was

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Speaker 1: a little over seven billion people, and so on that

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Speaker 1: basis he concludes that point zero zero zero zero eighty

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Speaker 1: six of the world population, or about one in ten

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Speaker 1: thousand people, is famous.

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Speaker 2: Okay, one in ten thousand. That's still a lot of

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Speaker 2: famous people.

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Speaker 1: Still better odds than the lottery though.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But here's the thing. Most of the people that

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Speaker 2: are watched on screen internationally, in let's say big Box

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Speaker 2: office movies or in HBO shows or something that's been

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Speaker 2: translated into other languages, they speak English.

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Speaker 1: Ah, yes, good point. Most famous actors, most of the

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Speaker 1: most famous actors, we should say, do speak English. So

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Speaker 1: we need to correct for that. The total of English

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Speaker 1: speaking persons on the planet. It's twenty thirteen was only

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Speaker 1: one point four to nine billion, which means that point

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Speaker 1: zero zero four one, or about point zero four percent

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Speaker 1: of the English speaking world population is famous, or about

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Speaker 1: one in two thousand. Okay, Then then back to actors.

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Speaker 1: How many actors do we have in the States. Typically,

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Speaker 1: one of the best ways to get statistics on a

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Speaker 1: given profession in this country is to check with the

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Speaker 1: US Bureau of Labor Statistics.

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Speaker 2: Oh, the old BLS.

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Speaker 1: The old BLS not to be mistaken with BLT, not

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Speaker 1: near as delicious. The BLS estimates that the number of

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Speaker 1: actors for twenty seventeen was thirteen thousand, five hundred and sixty.

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Speaker 1: That works out to about two hundred and seventy one

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Speaker 1: actors per state, which we know is obviously not true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, it's gotta be a lot higher than that.

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Speaker 2: Even I feel like that number of people is just

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Speaker 2: in LA. There are that many actors just in LA,

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Speaker 2: I want to say, or at least twice more or

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Speaker 2: three times more. So. If we take another group, the

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Speaker 2: Actors Equity Association, they had over fifty one thousand members

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Speaker 2: associated with them in twenty sixteen. So there you go.

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Speaker 2: A lot more.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, many, many more, And these sources don't agree. One

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Speaker 1: of our questions has to immediately be when we're comparing sources,

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Speaker 1: what gives?

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Speaker 2: Right? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One reason for the BLS's underestimation of the number of

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Speaker 1: actors might be because they only count you as an

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Speaker 1: actor if you have a current acting job.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that would make sense. So there are thirteen thousand

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Speaker 2: employed actors at any given moment.

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Speaker 1: And they also just as side note, Well almost visited

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Speaker 1: this one, Matt. How much does the BLS estimate working

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Speaker 1: actors make per hour?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Man, I can't believe we missed that. The BLS says

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Speaker 2: the actors make an average of seventeen dollars and forty

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Speaker 2: nine cents per hour.

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Speaker 1: Again average.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's that is what Tom Cruise's numbers lumped

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Speaker 2: in with the one extra that got paid I guess

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Speaker 2: one hundred dollars or fifty dollars.

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Speaker 1: Day or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so these averages are dangerous. These are far from

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Speaker 1: accurate numbers. But according to the Actors' Equity Association, which

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Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, Matt, fewer than fourteen percent of actors

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Speaker 1: were employed in twenty sixteen, and the statistics on actors

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Speaker 1: not known to belong to the Actor's Equity Association is

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Speaker 1: still an ambiguous, nebulous number. But that number would likely

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Speaker 1: be considerably worse because there's not really a point to

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Speaker 1: joining Actors' Equity if you are unemployed. So let's just

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Speaker 1: do a thought excerpts. Well, besides the networking associated with that, oh,

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Speaker 1: which is huge. That's a great point. That's a fantastic point. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So bracketing that, let's do a thought exercise. Okay, if

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Speaker 1: we multiply that labor and statistic number by say, let's

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Speaker 1: just say ten, dream big, say ten, we can say

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Speaker 1: that they were around one hundred thirty five six hundred

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Speaker 1: actors in the US, which still seems like a low

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Speaker 1: number to me. And if we multiply that number by

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Speaker 1: point zero zero four to one, or by point zero

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Speaker 1: four percent Arbsman's estimate of the percent of English speaking

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Speaker 1: people who are famous, we can conclude that they're about

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Speaker 1: fifty six English speaking actors currently working who are considered famous.

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Speaker 1: There's a pretty off the cuff estimate, and it sounds

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Speaker 1: kind of low to me. It sounds very low, to

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Speaker 1: be honest with you.

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Speaker 2: But that many actors in all of the TV shows

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Speaker 2: right now there, and some of them would not be

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Speaker 2: considered famous really unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: But there have to be there. There have to be

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Speaker 1: way more in that way, more, especially with the explosion

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Speaker 1: of high quality television.

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Speaker 2: Especially if you're looking at streaming services in all of

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Speaker 2: the original content with new actors. Yeah, right, I would agree.

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Speaker 1: And also if we're looking at you know, Instagram famous

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Speaker 1: or YouTube famous, people who are famous on a specific platform.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So this is a situation where the final number is

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Speaker 1: probably much higher, and that's great, that's a good thing.

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Speaker 1: But the number of aspiring, non working actors we have

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Speaker 1: to remember, is probably much much higher as well. What

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Speaker 1: we're saying is, any way you slice it, the odds

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Speaker 1: of success of reaching fame and the world of acting

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Speaker 1: are very very extremely low.

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Speaker 2: Way lower than you even think.

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Speaker 1: Way way lower, way lower. Even with that, even with

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Speaker 1: those numbers we just throughout there, you're it's still it's

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Speaker 1: not as bad as like winning the power ball at

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Speaker 1: the lottery. True, it's not that tough, but that's a

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Speaker 1: horrible comparison. It's very difficult to demanding and brutal industry

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Speaker 1: because it's an industry fraught with obscucation, sexism, racism, and agism.

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Speaker 1: Those are all acknowledged too, They're part of the business.

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Speaker 1: And then especially I'm not gonna get on the soapbox here.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure longtime listeners, I'm sure you know what I'm

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Speaker 1: going to say. It's fraught with nepotism, which is a

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Speaker 1: terrible thing and makes for worse end results.

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Speaker 2: And there's this element of pay to play and all

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Speaker 2: of these other things that you can get into.

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Speaker 1: Well. For instance, considered people who aspire to work at,

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Speaker 1: for example, a publishing house or a high quality fashion magazine,

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Speaker 1: they will typically enter into that realm through a low

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Speaker 1: level position, often an internship, and that internship may be

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Speaker 1: located in Los Angeles or in New York, and they

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Speaker 1: will have to find some means of financial support just

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Speaker 1: to afford rent in a terrible apartment. And this means

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Speaker 1: that there's a built in, as you said, Matt, there's

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Speaker 1: a built in pay to play aspect here that commonly

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Speaker 1: pops up. And I want to take a note to

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Speaker 1: say I really fundamentally enjoy a lot of movies featuring

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Speaker 1: the actor known as Nicholas Cage.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm on board with you there.

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Speaker 1: His real last name is Copola, and yes, related to

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Speaker 1: the same Francis Ford Coppola. And one of the questions

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Speaker 1: someone asked me off here somewhere, I can't remember why.

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Speaker 1: I was talking about how I just love the insanity

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Speaker 1: of the fight scenes, face off or whatever, and they said,

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Speaker 1: do you believe that Nick Cage would be a famous

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Speaker 1: actor if he were not in the Coppola dynasty? And

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Speaker 1: I couldn't answer that question.

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Speaker 2: I will answer that question, Okay, absolutely, there we go.

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Speaker 2: There is a Nick Cage quality that you cannot get

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Speaker 2: from anyone besides that, man, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Telling you, And it sort of it speaks to the

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Speaker 1: way in which we judge the performance of American actors. Right,

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Speaker 1: Oh sure, have we mentioned this on the air before,

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Speaker 1: the difference between European and American actors.

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Speaker 2: No? Okay.

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Speaker 1: So American actors often by and large are praised for

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Speaker 1: their ability to consistently be themselves or their own brand

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Speaker 1: in whatever film you see them in. Right, and even

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Speaker 1: you know ones who are serted completely amazing masterclass actors.

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Speaker 1: Al Pacino, for instance, is always some version of al Pacino, Right,

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Speaker 1: A lot of those, A lot of those nuances that

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Speaker 1: we see when he assumes different characters are still him

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Speaker 1: doing the character.

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Speaker 2: You're still getting pacino.

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Speaker 1: You're still getting pacino.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and that's arguably what you're paying for as a studio, right.

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Speaker 1: And in the European sphere, often actors are lauded for

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Speaker 1: a very different reason, their ability to be chameleons, right

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Speaker 1: to be so completely different from one fictional world to

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Speaker 1: the next. So by that logic, for instance, Liam Neeson,

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Speaker 1: despite being a European actor, fits into the American idea

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Speaker 1: of a fantastic actor. What about some Idrisilba, Idrisilba, It's

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Speaker 1: a different question. I haven't seen enough of his stuff

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Speaker 1: to say, but most of what I've seen, he's recognizably

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Speaker 1: Idris Ilbah.

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Speaker 2: No man, I don't know if I agree, but let's

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Speaker 2: go with it.

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Speaker 1: No, I, you know, I this is just an opinion.

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Speaker 2: I'm telling this is.

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Speaker 1: Just an opinion. But but so the people who become

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Speaker 1: a list, actors who despite the odds or because of

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Speaker 1: the nepotism, reached that fabled position in the American zeitgeist,

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Speaker 1: in the Western pantheon of entertainment, they will have not

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Speaker 1: perfect lives, but they do have a position in life

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Speaker 1: that many, many people aspire to reach, and we have

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Speaker 1: to ask ourselves it's it's such again, it's such a trope.

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Speaker 1: What have people done to get on this path? What

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Speaker 1: have they done to get access? Just to get noticed

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Speaker 1: by a director, by an agent, by someone they think

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Speaker 1: they can provide them with opportunities. It's the age old

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Speaker 1: question what would you do to be famous?

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Speaker 2: And what would you allow to happen to you to

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Speaker 2: reach that level?

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Speaker 1: Right, however, reluctantly, however, against your better judgment, what would

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Speaker 1: you feel coerced into doing? Granted, we don't want to

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Speaker 1: make it look impossible, some people do luck out. Those

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Speaker 1: stories of you know, someone just being recognized in them,

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Speaker 1: all those things happen. Harrison Ford I believe, got cast

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Speaker 1: as Hans Solo when he was doing some carpentry work

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Speaker 1: on a set. And some people work hard, just not

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Speaker 1: just in the right place at the right time, but

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Speaker 1: they're determined, they're tenacious. They are doing eighty hours a

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Speaker 1: week of legwork, auditions, practicing Chara character yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and over and over. And in that case it's it's

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Speaker 1: I would say it's disrespectful for the Bureau of Labor

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Speaker 1: and statistics to consider them unemployed. Yeah, that's a heck

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Speaker 1: of a job, you know, and probably one of the

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Speaker 1: most demanding.

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Speaker 2: And some reason I want to put Steve Ashmi in there,

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Speaker 2: but I don't know if it's right. Somebody who's just

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Speaker 2: been doing roles forever and then finally like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: actually get a show now in like twenty ten. Big

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Speaker 2: fan of his. Yeavy too.

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Speaker 1: So some people also network, As we mentioned, they're looking

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Speaker 1: for opportunities and access they could not otherwise find on

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Speaker 1: their own. Today's episode, Fellow Conspiracy Realist is about one

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Speaker 1: of these groups, a group that purports to provide great

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Speaker 1: opportunity to provide personal and professional awakening, a group called Nexium.

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Speaker 2: And we're going to dive deep into their origins and

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Speaker 2: how it became a thing after a word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Here are the facts, So, Matt, we dug around and

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Speaker 1: we went to the primary source to describe Nexium itself.

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Speaker 1: It's spelled in XIVM, but it's pronounced nexium, yes. And

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Speaker 1: what exactly are they? What's their deal?

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Speaker 2: Well, according to the splash page on their website, it's

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Speaker 2: a company whose mission is to raise human awareness, foster

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Speaker 2: and ethical humanitarian civilization and celebrate what it means to

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Speaker 2: be human. That sounds nice, inspirational. Yeah, it sounds familiar

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Speaker 2: to other groups that we've discussed before on this show,

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Speaker 2: especially within the context of acting. It's making me think

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Speaker 2: a little bit about scientology.

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Speaker 1: I see. Yeah, the idea of self realization ultimately.

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Speaker 2: And helping an actor become them their true selves in

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Speaker 2: order to become the best actor possible.

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Speaker 1: And if that sounds a little vague, they do go

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Speaker 1: into further detail.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Nexium is a community guided by humanitarian principles

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Speaker 2: that seek to empower people and answer important questions about

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Speaker 2: what it means to be human. The Nexium philosophy is

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Speaker 2: expressed through a series of companies and initiatives, all of

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Speaker 2: which were designed to broaden the way we currently think

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Speaker 2: about problems and help create solutions for a kinder, more sustainable,

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Speaker 2: ethical world. With unique tools that facilitate success both internally

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Speaker 2: and externally, Nexium helps people realize the potential that exists

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Speaker 2: within them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, admittedly sounds pretty vague, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really get anything. There are techniques that

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Speaker 2: are going to help me become me to my full potential.

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Speaker 1: So we if we were to spitball and speculate, we

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Speaker 1: could say that one of the seminars or sessions might

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Speaker 1: be something about confidence in social or business functions.

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00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, perhaps just in any interaction whatsoever? How do

405
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: you display yourself?

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Speaker 1: Little body language, some public speaking, some maybe some ideas

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00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: about how to frame what information you present? Sure, how

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00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: to manage your reactions? Scientology does it a lot of

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00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: that as well, but so do a ton of other things.

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Speaker 1: We often call them life coaching stuff.

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Speaker 2: Right Benino Massaro had some of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Sure he did. I'm sure he did or does. But

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Speaker 1: on balance this seems pretty harmless. Sure believe in yourself? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with that?

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Speaker 2: We'll teach you how to do it for whatever money?

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Speaker 1: Right? Right? It does have a price tag attached. So

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Speaker 1: where did Nexium come from? It is the brainchat the

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Speaker 1: founder Keith Ranieri, which is how we found it pronounced

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Speaker 1: the multiple media sources Rnieri, And it evolved from his

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Speaker 1: earlier work with something called the Consumers Byline Incorporated. That's

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Speaker 1: buy lne.

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Speaker 2: That sounds familiar, consumers byline, you know why?

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Speaker 1: Why's that?

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Speaker 2: Because a byline sounds like an upline or a down line.

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Speaker 2: Do you know why because it's a multi level marketing scheme.

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Speaker 2: It was broken up when it was investigated for being

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Speaker 2: a pyramid scheme.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so. Keith was born back in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: in New York. He graduated Rocklands County Day School, a

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Speaker 1: private school, in nineteen seventy seven, and he was thought

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Speaker 1: to be a very intelligent young man. In nineteen eighty two,

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Speaker 1: he graduated from the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute with three separate

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Speaker 1: Bchelor degrees.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Shortly thereafter he joined Amway.

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Speaker 2: Oh, another one of those byline wayline uplindalens.

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Speaker 1: He is considered a boy genius at the time, a

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Speaker 1: title he really leans into later in life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. He once had on his website that at the

440
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: age of one, he was speaking in complete sentences, which

441
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 2: is a huge achievement and good for him.

442
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm skeptical, but sure, sure, sure, it's possible.

443
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: He taught himself how to play concert level piano by

444
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 2: age twelve, which is a possibility.

445
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: Also a possibility, possible. So. He's spent about a year

446
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty eight to nineteen eighty nine working at

447
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: the New York State Parole Board as a programmer for

448
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: around thirty two thousand dollars a year, and then he

449
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: left to become a sales trainer for something called pre

450
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: Paid Legal, which was a marketing okay, okay, and then

451
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety he opens the consumers byline that you

452
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: had mentioned had some problems.

453
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a marketing club and it would hook

454
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: its members up. It would just give him all these

455
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 2: discounts on all kinds of different consumer goods. And his

456
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: partners at the time were Karen Tarranner terrainer not exactly

457
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: shroud to pronounce her name, and Pam Kaffritz. Now, at

458
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: this time, Pam is his longtime girlfriend. Pam. I don't

459
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 2: know if they're still together or not. I don't keep

460
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 2: up in the celebrity news. Unfortunately, I'm not sure at

461
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: this time in twenty eighteen when we're recording this, if

462
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: Pam was still his girlfriend.

463
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: I like that he may have evolved past that. Oh yeah,

464
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: I like how you bring that idea of celebrity back, right,

465
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: the true one of the huge religions of our current society. Right,

466
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: there's money and then there's fame.

467
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.

468
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: By nineteen ninety four, multiple agencies are investigating consumers byline, because,

469
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: as you said earlier, Matt, they believe it is a

470
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: pyramid scheme. By nineteen ninety six, Keith and his partners

471
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: settle with the New York State Attorney's Office to end

472
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: the probe of consumers byline. They don't admit any guilt, Nope,

473
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: but they do agree not to promote, offer, or grant

474
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: participation in an illegal chain of distribution scheme.

475
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 2: Oh well, that's nice, she said.

476
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: We're not guilty. We also promise not to do these

477
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: things anymore. And as part of the settlement, Nier agreed

478
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: to pay a forty thousand dollars fine.

479
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, forty thousand dollars not that crazy. Who knows how

480
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: much money they were actually raking it.

481
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: Right right there? Are No, I don't know. I'm sure

482
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: the courts found something, but I don't know what the

483
00:29:59,040 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: real amount is.

484
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

485
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: And then everything changes in nineteen ninety seven when he

486
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: meets a person who later becomes influential in his life.

487
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nancy Salzman. She's a psychotherapist who was running the

488
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: International Center for Change, And basically Ranieri became her mentor,

489
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 2: and he started teaching her these methods that he had

490
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,479
Speaker 2: been I guess thinking about or maybe was coming up

491
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: with at the time, and he called them rational inquiry. Yeah, yeah,

492
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: she was, well, she was kind of like subject zero

493
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: for what would then become Nexium.

494
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: Right, and we're at that point in the timeline. In

495
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, ornier A creates Executive Success Programs or

496
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: esp OH, and it's later going to be named Nexium.

497
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: Nancy Salzman is president, and Karen and Pam also join

498
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: up as partners. By October twenty seventeen, Nexium states that

499
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: its seminars and programs have provided tools, coaching, techniques, and

500
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: training to sixteen thousand people across thirty different countries. Rnier

501
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: A becomes a niche celebrity of his own, especially within

502
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: the organization. He meets with the Dalai Lama on May sixth,

503
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. The Nexium Group purchases multiple buildings

504
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: in the Albany, New York area.

505
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 3: But what is it?

506
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: Exactly? From their own copy and from your accurate description, Matt,

507
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: it sounds like Nexium is a life coaching organization, but

508
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: critics and legal filings have referred to it as an MLM,

509
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,479
Speaker 1: a scheme, a pyramid, yeah, a multi level marketing scheme.

510
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 4: No.

511
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

512
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: In twenty twelve, the Times Union, which is based in Albany,

513
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: publishes a report wherein experts argue that rnier A is

514
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: not a life coach and more of a cult leader.

515
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, not even an MLM, just top of the chain

516
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 2: guy and actual cult leader is what this paper is saying.

517
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: And you can read this article right now if you

518
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: google it.

519
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: And it's pretty good. But it definitely takes that stance.

520
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: And I think there was an earlier article in the

521
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: two thousands from Forbes that had some of his supporters

522
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: say they had attended seminars or sessions and found it worthwhile.

523
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so we do want to be fair in

524
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: that regard, so when they say he's a cult leader,

525
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: they don't just throw the C word out and then

526
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: let it play. They have some specific accusations against him.

527
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. The article is titled Secrets of Nexium again spelled NXIVM,

528
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: and they go into allegations of all kinds of different

529
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:58,239
Speaker 2: sexual manipulation, both of adults and also people who are

530
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: under age women specifically they're also they go into these

531
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: murky possibilities about illegal financing financing schemes within the organization.

532
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: There are multiple interviews with people who have been involved

533
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: at one time or another with Nexium, and we have Oh,

534
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: they also speak about a relentless intimidation of anybody trying

535
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: to break away from the organization. Does that sound familiar

536
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: to any of the other organizations we've discussed in the past, Sure,

537
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: specifically people who are questioning the internal practices of Nexium,

538
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 2: people who know how it functions.

539
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: Or claimed to yes. So maybe this is just a

540
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: hip piece. Perhaps, perhaps let's hold off judgment for a moment.

541
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: We have to pause here and introduce another character in

542
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: the story, one of Vernire's most high profile followers in Nexium.

543
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: Her name is Alison Mack.

544
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: If her name sounds familiar, that's because she's an actor

545
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: of somewhat of note. And let's talk about her backstory.

546
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: So she was born on July twenty ninth, nineteen eighty two,

547
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 2: in West Germany. She has been an actor for most

548
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 2: of her life. Her first major role was in the

549
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers series one that you probably remember if you

550
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 2: were my age just turned thirty five, seventh Heaven, and

551
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 2: she played a teenage cutter, which was a thing that

552
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: I had never seen before in my life. When I

553
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: was at that stage watching it with my family, and

554
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 2: I actually remember that wow, because it wasn't a huge role.

555
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was a I guess, a groundbreaking or

556
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 1: influential role in the public discourse. And she continued as

557
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: a working actor. Again, She's on the way, She's on

558
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: the path to which so many people aspire. In two

559
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: thousand and one, she landed a role as Chloe Sullivan,

560
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: one of Clark Kent's best friends, in the popular series

561
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: Smallville that went on and on for multiple seasons. In

562
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, then Alison Mack reportedly joined the

563
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: Vancouver chapter of Nexium, along with another Smallville colleague, the

564
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 1: actor Kristin Kruk. Mac rose through the ranks, eventually becoming

565
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: the organization's top recruiter, attempting to recruit other actors of

566
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: notes such as Emma Watson or entertainers like Kelly Clarkson

567
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: and feminist writers into what she described as a quote

568
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: human development and women's movement organization. Many young actors were

569
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: joining up in hopes of attaining further personal and professional success.

570
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: After all, Alison Mack is a star, right.

571
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's got to be doing something right. I should

572
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: follow in her footsteps. Let me listen to what she's

573
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 2: got to say. But then rumors of even more salacious

574
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 2: occurrences within the Nexium organization begin to surface. So again,

575
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: what exactly is happening within this organization at the events,

576
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 2: maybe behind closed doors. We'll get into that again right

577
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: after a quick word from our sponsor.

578
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy.

579
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: It's time to peek behind the curtain of Nexium. As

580
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: it turns out, Alison Mack was one of the top

581
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: recruiters for Nexium, but she wasn't just recruiting for Nexium

582
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: in general, and she was not just hooking people up

583
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: with acting gigs or promising them the sort of personal

584
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: realizations that would lead to more success in the entertainment industry.

585
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: She was recruiting for two other inner groups, just for women.

586
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: One was named j NES capital j lower case ness

587
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: like locknest, monster Us, Janus, and this was the recruiting

588
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: pool for something else, an organization. Outsiders were never supposed

589
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 1: to know about a secret group, and these recruits who

590
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: went through Nexium went through JNS and joined this other

591
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: group where a varying ages they were entering a secret

592
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: sisterhood sometimes referred to as dominos osequious sororirium or dos.

593
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 2: Dos okay, or the vow.

594
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: The dos. The Latin there means something like the obsequious

595
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: sisters okay, and it's a loaded term. In a groundbreaking

596
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: report from October twenty seventeen, writing for The New York Times,

597
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: journalist Barry Meyer details what women had to do in

598
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: order to gain admission into this group. We do want

599
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: to tell you ahead of time what we are about

600
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: to discuss in this in this segment may be disturbing

601
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: for some audience members.

602
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you've had any experience a kin to abuse

603
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,959
Speaker 2: in this realm, just go ahead and either skip forward

604
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 2: or maybe just listen to the next episode. Here we go. So,

605
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 2: the first thing that happens is that they become or

606
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 2: they call themselves and kind of take a vow to

607
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 2: become slaves with the person above them, the woman above them,

608
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 2: within their hierarchy, and that person is going to be

609
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 2: considered their master. And there are six of them generally

610
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: how it functions in a cluster. So there's one master

611
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: and then six slaves.

612
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: So seven people total, and these potential slaves, in order

613
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: to join the organization or to join DOS, they were

614
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: required to give this master, whomever that person might be,

615
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: always a woman in this case, they were required to

616
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: give this person collateral, that's what it was called. These

617
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: would be in the forms of naked photographs, sexually explicit photographs,

618
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: or other compromising material.

619
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 2: And some people wrote down just past transgressions, things that

620
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 2: they had done wrong, that they knew were wrong, that

621
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 2: would harm somebody else if that information came out.

622
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: Right, things that could harm their own reputation as they

623
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: pursued celebrity, or things that could harm the reputation of

624
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 1: their loved ones. And the expectation here the implication was

625
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: that should they break the valve of silence, should they

626
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: say anything about this group, that information would be exposed,

627
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: leaked to the public. The word for this is blackmail.

628
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, but ben trust goes both ways. You know what

629
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: I'm saying.

630
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 1: I yes, I don't agree in this case, but yeah,

631
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: I know what you mean.

632
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't agree either that. It's just that's scary.

633
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: And again it harkens back to another group.

634
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: To the audit system, right, yeah, or the rundowns.

635
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to record everything that you say when

636
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 2: we were going through your darkest, deepest past.

637
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: Just in case, just for our records.

638
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 2: Yep.

639
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: So at this point some of the people entering into

640
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 1: this organization had heard they might receive a small tattoo

641
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: in the process. Instead, they were told to disrobe and

642
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: lay on a massage table and they were ordered to say, master,

643
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 1: please brand me. It would be an honor.

644
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 2: And that's a quote that's not like a you say

645
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 2: something like this, that's the value take.

646
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's verbatim. Female doctor. Allegedly, a member of Nexium

647
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: named Danielle Roberts would use a cauterizing device to seer

648
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: a two inch square symbol below each woman's hip. And

649
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: this procedure took about twenty to thirty very very painful minutes.

650
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. And in some of these articles you can read

651
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 2: some of the women who joined this group described the

652
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 2: process where there are at least three other women holding

653
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 2: down their legs in their arms while they're in this

654
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 2: device this chair or the massage table, I guess, and

655
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 2: then the process of just screaming and disassociating as it's

656
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: going on because they're in so much pain. It's rather horrifying.

657
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: And this one with Danielle Roberts is this is the

658
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: one we know about, right, because there are groups, there

659
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 2: are nexium groups all over in so many countries, in

660
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 2: Canada and Mexico and the United States and other countries.

661
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 2: This is just the one group that we're aware of

662
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: where this process took place.

663
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: Exactly. And what we find is that after being branded

664
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: several of these women, multiple women allege that when they

665
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: were in this dominant submissive relationship with their quote unquote

666
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: master in a super organization, they were coerced into sexual

667
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: activities with Keith Ernire himself. Who oh wait, they don't

668
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: call him Keith by the way, in the group.

669
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 2: No, they call him the Vanguard.

670
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: Which I think is a lame, lame name. Lame nickname,

671
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 1: the Vanguard.

672
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 2: I would have really liked it if I was still

673
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: playing EverQuest like, I would have thought, Man, that's a

674
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 2: cool name, the Vanguard. I like that.

675
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: In addition to sexual exploitation for the pleasure of the Vanguard,

676
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: other women and survivors of this situation say that Mac

677
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: and other members required them to do forced labor or

678
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 1: menial task. They had to do this without question. Yeah,

679
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: it didn't matter what it was around the house, chores,

680
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: guard work, et cetera. And for this Allegedly, the Vanguard

681
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: would then pay mac or other masters. So if we're

682
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: keeping count right now, that's sex trafficking, blackmail, blackmail right

683
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: and forced labor. If we're being held by the US

684
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: legal code rather than the vision of the Vanguard, I

685
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: just can't say that name with a serious tom. But

686
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: there's more right. Additionally, he had very very rigid opinions

687
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: on how people should conduct any aspect of their lives.

688
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: Obviously a lot of cult leaders tale as old as time,

689
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: are very controlling people. So what was one of his

690
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: other conditions that came out?

691
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,479
Speaker 2: More trigger stuff here if you've ever had an eating

692
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 2: disorder or something to that effect, or just know we're

693
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 2: going to talk about some of that right now. So

694
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: the Vanguard apparently liked women to look emaciated. That was

695
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: his thing, so he would he preferred extremely thin women.

696
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 2: So so the slaves had to stick to these extremely

697
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 2: low calorie diets. They would document every piece of food

698
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 2: that went into their mouths, and as punishment for not

699
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 2: falling orders, women would, we are a lot of the

700
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 2: times forced to attend these classes where they had to

701
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 2: wear fake cow utters over their breasts, and people would

702
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 2: call them terrible names and make fun of them for

703
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 2: wearing it, and then they would even be threatened to

704
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: be put into a cage because they can't fall orders.

705
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: They're not doing the right thing and treated like cattle.

706
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: They're being suppressive or they're being an obstacle to their

707
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: own success.

708
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 2: An sp right again.

709
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Nexium, by the way, did, or at least

710
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: the Vanguard did use the term suppressives when he was

711
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: getting into people's heads. At this point, it's not clear

712
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,439
Speaker 1: who Innxiom was aware of these activities, nor how many

713
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: people were branded, because you know, it's the inner circle

714
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: of an inner circle. However, we do know they ca

715
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: himself was certainly aware. He sent a text message to

716
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: a female follower discussing the branding, wherein he noted, quote

717
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 1: not initially intended as my initials, but they rearranged it

718
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: slightly for tribute, adding if it were Abraham Lincoln's or

719
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,479
Speaker 1: Bill Gates initials, no one would care. We should mention

720
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: that the appearance of the brand it's yeah, let's talk

721
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: about it. It's his initials in a It's a stylized

722
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: K and a stylized R.

723
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm looking at a picture from the New York Times.

724
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: It's a woman named Sarah Edmondson who came forward with

725
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 2: some of these I guess you have to call him allegations,

726
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 2: but who came forward to discuss these things after she

727
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 2: was branded. She showed hers on the New York Times website.

728
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 2: And it just it looks almost like an X in

729
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: a way that has some extra little flourishes to it.

730
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 2: But it looks just like a terrible wound. Essentially, it's

731
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 2: all right, it's awful.

732
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: Yes, And so far there hasn't been a conviction for

733
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 1: this yet, so you are a correct amount.

734
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 2: We do.

735
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: We do need to say that these are allegations. Technically, yeah,

736
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 1: just got to hold back the vomit a little bit.

737
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: So there's another controversy here. Like many organizations of this type,

738
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: Keith and his followers spent a great deal of time

739
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: attempting to turn or compromise wealthy and powerful and most

740
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: importantly vulnerable.

741
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 2: People and possibly influential.

742
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: And possibly influential right, and that is again a textbook,

743
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,919
Speaker 1: textbook move from organizations that are like this. Two of

744
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: its most notable successes in this regard are the Bronfman sisters,

745
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: Sarah and Claire. They are believed to have squandered as

746
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: much as one hundred and fifty million dollars of their

747
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: inherited fortune on the organization. They are the heiresses to

748
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: the Seagrum's fortune, the gin mm HM, and multiple other things.

749
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,280
Speaker 1: What we can imagine this one hundred and fifty million

750
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:24,280
Speaker 1: dollar price tag or heist of their family's fortune included

751
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: sixty six million dollars allegedly used to cover Rnire's failed

752
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 1: bets in the commodities market, thirty million to buy real

753
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: estate in la and around the Albany area. Eleven million

754
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 1: for a plane a jet actually, excuse me, Canada Air

755
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: CL six hundred. That's a twenty two seat, two engine jet.

756
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: Nice ride. Yeah, millions more to support the barrage of

757
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: lawsuits that Nexium would wage against people who wronged Keith

758
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: and so excuse me, the Vanguard in some way or

759
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 1: were seen as a threat.

760
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the father, mister Bronfan, he's a billionaire and

761
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: his name's Edgar Edgar Bronfman. He attended an Exium session

762
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 2: and after a little while he came out strongly against

763
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 2: the organization, and he himself referred to it as a cult.

764
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 2: Which is something to note here because the sisters who

765
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 2: I believe are his daughters. Yes, came out and you know,

766
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 2: are shelling out all now, I don't want to say

767
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 2: his money, but the family's money, just shelling it out

768
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 2: for this group that he believes as a cult.

769
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 1: And you'll hear people allege that what the organization, when

770
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:55,919
Speaker 1: next him itself, was doing was exploiting or leveraging the

771
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 1: problems that existed in the Brafmann family's inner relations. God

772
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 1: should dislike of their father, right, he's a billionaire, he can't.

773
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: That's one of the closest things a human being in

774
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: this current system can have to godlike powers.

775
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 2: Right.

776
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: So the idea then is that their agency has been removed,

777
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: they have been brainwashed somehow into supporting this guy, and

778
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 1: that they are I mean, that's an interesting legal point.

779
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: Are they complicit in these situations? We're about to find out.

780
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 2: Yep, we know.

781
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: We mentioned that excellent piece by Meyer in the New

782
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 1: York Times in twenty seventeen. Ranier noticed it as well.

783
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: He read it and then he fled for Mexico.

784
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: Yes he did. By the way, it's called inside a

785
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,760
Speaker 2: secretive group where women are branded.

786
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 1: And he was he was partnering with some of his followers,

787
00:49:55,840 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: who already lived in a Mexican outpost for nexium with

788
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: some again notable, high profile followers, and he was found

789
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:12,720
Speaker 1: shortly thereafter in a Puerto Vieta luxury gated community living

790
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 1: with several women. Authorities took him into custody on a

791
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: US warrant. Investigators said the women got into a high

792
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: speed car chase. At this point, we don't have more

793
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: information about that, but we can only imagine they were

794
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: also apprehended. And so when he was arrested, he was

795
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: transported to Texas and officially charged with sex trafficking. We

796
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: shall also mention that numerous sources state he was involved

797
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: with three women who were under the age of sixteen

798
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:42,959
Speaker 1: at the time.

799
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is a whole other I was going to

800
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,919
Speaker 2: say bag of badgers, but let's not tante it off.

801
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 2: It's a whole other thing.

802
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: Let's at least save that one.

803
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

804
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 1: So now he and Dallas and Mack face a minimum

805
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: of fifteen years each if convicted. That's a minimum of fifteen,

806
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: but it could go all the way up to life.

807
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: It probably won't because there's still a ton of money involved.

808
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 2: He Yeah, I should be noticed that noted I think

809
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: I'm not sure we even said it that Alison mac

810
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 2: is also caught up in the illegal stuff. That's like

811
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 2: you're saying they're both facing charges.

812
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, absolutely, And at this point here in twenty

813
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 1: eighteen August, as we record this, the case is still ongoing.

814
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 1: We do have the official statement from Nexium. They are

815
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: on pause. Ranier released a letter responding to these allegations

816
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 1: as well at some point, but this is the official

817
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 1: statement from Nexium on their current operations.

818
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 2: It is with deep sadness that we inform you that

819
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: we are suspending all Nexium ESP enrollment, curriculum and events

820
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 2: until further notice. We will be in touch with more

821
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 2: information for anyone currently enrolled in upcoming events and programs.

822
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 2: While we are disappointed by the interruption of our operations,

823
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 2: I believe it is warranted by the extraordinary circumstances facing

824
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 2: the company at this time. We continue to believe in

825
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 2: the value and importance of our work and look forward

826
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 2: to resuming our efforts when these allegations are resolved. Okay,

827
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 2: all right and.

828
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: Short, simple to the point. Yeah, of course they're going

829
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: to allied the details of the specific accusations.

830
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: That's the word of your day, Allied, Ben Bolin, tell

831
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:34,760
Speaker 2: us what the what the word means?

832
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: Okay, Allied e l ide means to leave or strike

833
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: out to omit perfect. So he didn't lie, but they

834
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: did elied. There you go the details, Okay. So Claire

835
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 1: Bramffman was also arrested and in late July, just the

836
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: month before we recorded this, she put up twenty five

837
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: million dollars in cash and several high end properties, including

838
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,399
Speaker 1: a stake in a private island in Fiji, which is

839
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: amazing to just own a private island as collateral on

840
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 1: her one hundred million dollar bond. She faces racketeering charges

841
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 1: in connection to her role in the Nexium functions, according

842
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: to the court documents, So she's going down more for

843
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: financial shenanigans, of which there are quite a few. You

844
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: can read more about that in an excellent article from

845
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: Oh Gosh way back in twenty ten Vanity Fair. It's

846
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 1: called the Heiresses and the Cults.

847
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's something really important we have to mention here, Ben.

848
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,879
Speaker 2: There are a lot of people who would consider themselves

849
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 2: members or are members of Nexium who had absolutely no

850
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 2: knowledge of any of these things that were going on,

851
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 2: and didn't even know that or didn't feel at all

852
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 2: like this, like this company did anything besides help them.

853
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Because again, sixteen thousand or so people participated.

854
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 1: The majority probably just attended a handful of seminars and

855
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: then left, perhaps feeling better about themselves, perhaps and more confident.

856
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: Maybe the classes even have measurable positive impacts on their lives.

857
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: Of the victims who've come forward, we also have to

858
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:30,280
Speaker 1: note that they're likely more who, for one reason or another,

859
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,280
Speaker 1: are too intimidated to take these stories public.

860
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and perhaps they can feel emboldened in a way

861
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 2: or empowered by having some of these stories come out.

862
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 2: And you know, perhaps you were a victim and there

863
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: you can be supported.

864
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: Now And what about the future for Ranierre, mac and more.

865
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: As we said, there is still a ton of so

866
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: much money at play, and it maybe some time before

867
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 1: anyone gets convict. Did both of these individuals, Alison and

868
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: Keith pled not guilty. One note about Ranieri's finances. That's

869
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: going to be a huge issue for his legal team,

870
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: because apparently he did not have a bank account, yeah,

871
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: nor driver's license. And of course he started encrypting email

872
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 1: and tossed his phone as soon as the new York

873
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 1: Times article went live, and.

874
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 2: It is fascinating how much she, I don't know, tried

875
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 2: to give himself plausible deniability about some of that stuff.

876
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: Right exactly, tried to be in the operative phrase there.

877
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 1: Alison Mack, as we record this is currently out on bail,

878
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: paid a five million dollar bond and she is living

879
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 1: at her parents' house. At this point. Observers suspect mac

880
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 1: will likely attempt to plea bargain. This would not be

881
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: out of the realm of possibility. She could claim that she,

882
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: like her victims, was psychologically manipulated courst and therefore controlled

883
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: by the Vanguard. And it's an argument that prosecutors or

884
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: a jury may well accept.

885
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 2: And there's something to be said there perhaps. I mean,

886
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 2: we say it's an argument because that's the way you

887
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: would frame it in a court of law, but psychologically

888
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,399
Speaker 2: there's some probably truth to that.

889
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely absolutely. And then we have one more tidbit

890
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 1: about Keith Ranier himself.

891
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, his lawyers requested a ten million dollar bond

892
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 2: and he was completely denied bail.

893
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: And that was denied. After June fifth of twenty eighteen,

894
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:44,760
Speaker 1: they filed it. Then he was arrested on March twenty

895
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: sixth of this year. That's when they got him in

896
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: Mexico and brought him to Texas. Mac Also, interestingly enough,

897
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: in an earlier interview, she told The New York Times

898
00:56:55,640 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 1: magazine that the branding was her idea. Yep. And their

899
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:06,919
Speaker 1: trial is set to begin on October first of this year,

900
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: so there will be more to come. This is an

901
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: ongoing story.

902
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 2: There's a lot coming out right now. The day that

903
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 2: we're recording this, Catherine Oxenberg, who was a star on

904
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 2: the show Dynasty, just came forward discussing her daughter who

905
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 2: got caught up in the organization. So yeah, it's going

906
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 2: to keep happening.

907
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: It's going to keep happening. There's going to be more

908
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: news hitting the airwaves soon regarding this situation, and we

909
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: would like to stay up to date. We'll almost certainly

910
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: have to do an update once the trial goes through

911
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: to see how that all shakes out. We'd also like

912
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: to hear from you, especially if you are an aspiring

913
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: actor a working actor. First, congratulations, it is a very

914
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: difficult industry. Second, have you run into things like this?

915
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 1: Have you seen organizations promising you some sort of access

916
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: or influence or greater personal self realization. If so, what

917
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: are the names of those organizations? Do you think their

918
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: aims were legitimate? Do you think there was something else

919
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: at play?

920
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? Is there anything we could look into?

921
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: Send it our way, and we'd like to thank you

922
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: so much for listening. NOL, like all of us, is

923
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: working on any number of secret projects. We can't wait

924
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 1: to tell you about those. Paul, Matt and I will

925
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: at some point get to an Applebee's made a covenant.

926
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: We did for the record. We did for the record,

927
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 1: if you follow us on social media, we did show

928
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: up to that mof ON meeting.

929
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 2: Yeah we did.

930
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Matt and I went to the Georgia chapter of

931
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: the Mutual UFO Network and I'll admit it, man, I

932
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: was surprised by how packed it was.

933
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 2: It was crazy packed. You walk into the library in Tucker, Georgia,

934
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 2: you hang a left and there's a big meeting room.

935
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: Most of the chairs are filled and people were being

936
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 2: very cordial and just listening. The meeting was run very well.

937
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 2: When you maybe it's just the vision that I have

938
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 2: sometimes when you were talking about a group of people

939
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 2: who collectively have some belief in the unidentified flying objects

940
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 2: in aerial phenomena that perhaps we're all a little bit strange.

941
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 2: I'm including myself in this group. By the way, the

942
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 2: human beings that were there in that room, assuming they

943
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 2: were all human beings, huh, I mean, it was so

944
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 2: refreshing that I felt like we were all just regular people.

945
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 2: Is that weird?

946
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so.

947
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 2: It was crazy refreshing. Lots of good people there.

948
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: Too, and so we would like to follow up in

949
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: the future with some of the details about Muffin in

950
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: a separate episode, maybe bring somebody from there to talk

951
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: a little bit about their experiences there. Who doesn't love

952
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: a good UFO story. And then we found some other

953
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: things that we thought would be of immense.

954
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 2: Interest to you, some specific cases.

955
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 1: Some specific cases, fellow listeners. If you'd like to hear

956
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: a little bit more about mouf On or what we

957
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 1: ended up doing there on that Saturday, then check us

958
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 1: out on social media. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook,

959
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 1: and Twitter. We particularly like to recommend Here's where it

960
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: gets Crazy our community page, which is sort of enough

961
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: about us, what about you kind of thing where you

962
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 1: can meet with the most important part of this show,

963
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: your fellow listeners. We've got some excellent moderators. The meme

964
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: game on that show, M E M E is a

965
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: plus plus double good top of the line.

966
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you know you do hit up in Applebee's,

967
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 2: don't forget to get a Mucho frozen Strawberry Summer Squeeze.

968
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 2: They're only there for a time.

969
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 4: You guys.

970
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 1: He's googling the menu.

971
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 2: Yep, chickens fingers are still there. The shrimp wanton stirfries

972
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 2: to die for, So just don't don't forget it so

973
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 2: interesting And that's the end of this classic episode. If

974
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 2: you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you

975
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 2: can get into contact with us in a number of

976
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 2: different ways. One of the best is to give us

977
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 2: a call. Our number is one eight three three st

978
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 2: d WYTK. If you don't want to do that, you

979
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 2: can send us a good old fashioned email.

980
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

981
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

982
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

983
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.