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Speaker 1: What's that at the joy I'm pretty sure it's dead.

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Speaker 1: It's coming this way.

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Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I nandas, Hey boo, it's me Roz.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm obsessed with this episode. This week

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Speaker 1: I talked to Brian Fuller, who is this incredible writer, director, producer, showrunner.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he creates some fantastic TV shows. Maybe you've

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Speaker 1: heard of a few, like Hannibal, Pushing Daisies. He has

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Speaker 1: this documentary series on Shutter. It's one of the best

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Speaker 1: things I've ever seen. It's so tailor made for me,

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Speaker 1: and I know a lot of you listening to the

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Speaker 1: show would love it too if you haven't seen it.

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Speaker 1: It's called Queer for Fear. It is on Shutter and

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Speaker 1: it's just an in depth exploration of queerness in horror

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Speaker 1: films and just horror in general really, and it's it's iconic.

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Speaker 1: You got to check it out. It came out last

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Speaker 1: year and just just go watch it. You're also going

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Speaker 1: to hear the brain on this man. I mean the

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Speaker 1: brain on this man. This conversation is so fun today,

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Speaker 1: talking particularly about queerness in horror and paranormal but also

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Speaker 1: Brian's got some stories of his own, so let's get

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Speaker 1: into it. You can also watch the YouTube video version.

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Speaker 1: The link is in the show notes, and check out

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Speaker 1: the one from last week if you haven't. I got

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Speaker 1: so many messages about how damn funny Mackenzie and Rachel are.

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Speaker 1: Oh those two kill me. Ah, Okay, here we go.

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Speaker 1: Here's my conversation with Brian Fuller on with the show.

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Speaker 1: Brian Fuller, Hello, Hello, how are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm really good. Thank you for having.

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Speaker 1: Me, Thanks for doing this. I'm honored.

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Speaker 3: Well. I wore a Booberry shirt in your honor.

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Speaker 1: That means so much to me. And I was also

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Speaker 1: just having a conversation about Booberry, who I believe is

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Speaker 1: the ghost of a queer person that wears blue eyeshadow,

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Speaker 1: a bow tie and no clothes and a hat.

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Speaker 3: Right, yes, yeah, it's yeah ghost.

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Speaker 1: Very much Provincetown. That whole serial spooky world is very queer,

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Speaker 1: very spooky, and I love it.

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Speaker 3: It's absolutely queer. Chocula and Frankenberry. We've seen them in

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Speaker 3: bed together, we've seen them clutching each other. Blueberry drives

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Speaker 3: them into each other's arms frequently, or at least did

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Speaker 3: in the seventies commercials. So the whole Burt and Ernie

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Speaker 3: isms of same sex couples in non sexual circumstances that

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Speaker 3: allow the viewer to interpret those circumstances as sexual was pervasive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone knows that kind of count Chocula queen. Well,

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Speaker 1: that queen is a very specific type.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And franken Berry. You know the big silent

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Speaker 3: type that you would think is the top, it is

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Speaker 3: probably actually the bottom.

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Speaker 1: No pants, no pants? Yeah, why would you need pants?

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Speaker 1: What's the point the Well, you're the ultimate person to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about queerness and spookiness.

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Speaker 3: I love queer reads of horror. I can give you

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Speaker 3: just about any of them. Uh. In terms, we have

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Speaker 3: Friday the thirteenth coming up tomorrow. I think the Jason

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Speaker 3: Fourhees Missus Fourhees relationship is very queer. You have a

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Speaker 3: domineering mother and a special child. It's an inversion of

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Speaker 3: Norman Bates and his mother, where in Psycho you have

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Speaker 3: the mother occupying the sun, and in Friday the thirteenth

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Speaker 3: it's the son occupying the mother. And that relationship is

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Speaker 3: hard to lift and separate as anything but queer.

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Speaker 1: Right, God, I don't even think about it that way.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people, Well, I love so much Queer

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Speaker 1: for Fear, Oh yay, which you did, and if anyone

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Speaker 1: listening has not seen it, you got to shudder. Queerness, horror,

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Speaker 1: deep exploration, amazing talking heads, beautiful visuals. I love it

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Speaker 1: so much. And because what we do over here so

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Speaker 1: much is talking about ess and the paranormal. Yes, do

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Speaker 1: you see any relationship there?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely? I think anytime that look, queer kids are we

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Speaker 3: don't fit into a corporeal box. We just don't. And

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Speaker 3: our spirits are free flying and our instincts are free flying,

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Speaker 3: so I don't think we can be contained within the normal. Also,

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Speaker 3: we're just not normal. So being described as paranormal is

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Speaker 3: kind of hand in hand with queerness is that we

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Speaker 3: are we are strange, we are weird. That's the definition

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Speaker 3: of queer, and paranormal falls into that category. It's also

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Speaker 3: we are we are looking for ways not to fit in,

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Speaker 3: and the paranormal doesn't fit into understanding. So we lean

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Speaker 3: into those things because it seems like they better represent

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Speaker 3: our worldview than anything within a corporeal construct. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: People always ask me about ghosts and queerness, and I

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Speaker 1: always think, like ghosts, I've always been attracted to things

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Speaker 1: that aren't meant to be considered scary or demonized what

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Speaker 1: they are, like clowns right, or ventriloquist dummies, or even

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Speaker 1: like carnivals. Like all these things. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: see a sinister side to it, and maybe there is,

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Speaker 1: but I always, I always like things that didn't mean

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Speaker 1: to be that. I always have related to that. And

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Speaker 1: I think ghosts too, Like with a lot of queer people,

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Speaker 1: people go, it's a demon or it's evil or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is. I don't understand it, so that means that

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Speaker 1: it's bad, right, And so to me, ghosts are.

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Speaker 3: Queer, absolutely queer, and I think that if you're looking

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Speaker 3: at how we relate to the physical, and so much

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Speaker 3: of queerness is about not necessarily being relegated by the physical,

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Speaker 3: but being kind of transported by a spiritual point of view.

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Speaker 3: I was at an Outfest screening of Night Breed recently

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Speaker 3: and Clive Barker was speaking, who was pivotal to my

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Speaker 3: queer horror kind of experience, and somebody asked him, do

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Speaker 3: you think horror is queer or is going to the

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Speaker 3: future of horror is queer? And he said, the future

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Speaker 3: is queer because we are moving away from binary definitions

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Speaker 3: of our realities. We are moving away from restrictions on

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Speaker 3: how to be. We are seeing people relate to each

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Speaker 3: other romantically in polyamorous ways that aren't necessarily confined by

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Speaker 3: the previous, established systemic perceptions of how people are to

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Speaker 3: relate to each other. We see, you know, one of

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Speaker 3: the Brianna Vinskiz, who is one of the Inner Ease

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Speaker 3: on Queer for Fear, was talking about Mary Shelley and

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Speaker 3: queerness and the monstrousness of Frankenstein's Monster as a queer

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Speaker 3: paradigm because queers are constantly pulling together elements of feminism

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Speaker 3: and masculinity in our own alchemic definitions of those words

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Speaker 3: how they perceive to us. So that could be ten

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Speaker 3: percent them, ninety percent mask, could be ninety percent them,

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Speaker 3: ten percent mask, and everything in between. And I find

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Speaker 3: that so much more liberating because we don't have to

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Speaker 3: follow the system, because the system is as old and

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Speaker 3: tired and it doesn't apply anymore. So why wouldn't we

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Speaker 3: want to dance outside the lines?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and ghosts. It's like a part of us that

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Speaker 1: is now, Like I don't have to play by the

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Speaker 1: rules anymore. If I want to walk through a wall,

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Speaker 1: I could if I want to slap someone in the face,

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Speaker 1: I could. I can do whatever I want now.

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Speaker 3: Well, and ghosts aren't bound by their physical bodies. Yea,

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Speaker 3: so so much of you know, when I think about

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Speaker 3: sexual expressions, it's I rarely think about the physical body,

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Speaker 3: because at the height of sexual expression in my experience,

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Speaker 3: when it's good, your body goes away and and your

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Speaker 3: energy and your energy share. You're sharing energy with another person,

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Speaker 3: and that's kind of the beauty, and that feels non corporeal,

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Speaker 3: it feels spiritual, it feels ghost like. So I think

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Speaker 3: a lot of us as queer people. I was thinking

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Speaker 3: about this the other day because I see a lot

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Speaker 3: of folks who are kind of identifying with a lot

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Speaker 3: of queer identifying men are identifying with really toxic representations

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Speaker 3: of masculinity that I never understood as as being kind

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Speaker 3: of a kid that defied traditional definition, like I didn't

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Speaker 3: fit in with the jocks. I was a nerd, but

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Speaker 3: I was also feminine, and so there wasn't any kind

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Speaker 3: of place for me to see myself. And now we're

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Speaker 3: getting into an expression where people who don't feel like

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Speaker 3: they've been able to see themselves are able to see

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Speaker 3: themselves in representations, whether it's you know, the Booley Brothers

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Speaker 3: or drag Race. There's something about taking down the systems

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Speaker 3: of masculinity because let's say, said men are kind of

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Speaker 3: awful as a species, and straight men are awful to women,

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Speaker 3: and gay men are awful to other gay men. Because

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Speaker 3: there's there's something about this perception of anybody who wants

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Speaker 3: to experience the d in some capacity that makes them

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Speaker 3: less than as a human being. And that feels so

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Speaker 3: counterintuitive to queerness. But I see a lot of queerness

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Speaker 3: embracing it that that kind of boggles my mind. I

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Speaker 3: don't know if that is relatable to ghosts, but it's

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Speaker 3: relatable to kind of corporeal definitions of the physical.

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Speaker 1: Right God, I don't know what I was expecting, but

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Speaker 1: you're like blowing my mind right now. Oh do we

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Speaker 1: get some honey coffee? Oh my god, honey coffy.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god. Thank The conversation is going to get

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Speaker 3: a lot faster. Here we go.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. It's like that classic drag Queen bit

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Speaker 1: where they sniff some white pottern then the song gets fast. Ah,

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Speaker 1: the classic drag queen lip sync.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm curious, what was your first expression or experience

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Speaker 3: of ghostly awareness and uh, thinking about your relationship to

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Speaker 3: that ghostliness.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was raised Catholic.

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Speaker 3: Oh me too.

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Speaker 1: I do you think that that does it? Like that

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Speaker 1: that opens up a belief to that stuff? Because for me,

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Speaker 1: I do believe it does.

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Speaker 3: It certainly did for me because the holy.

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Speaker 1: Ghost, Holy God, there's so many of the stuff like

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Speaker 1: even just this bread is gonna turn like this wine's

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Speaker 1: going to turn in the blood, Like there's so much

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Speaker 1: like spooky into it. And there's also so much like

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Speaker 1: you know, exorcism and possession, but also the extravaganza of

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Speaker 1: like the stained glass windows and the dresses that the

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Speaker 1: priest wears. Like I just love that Catholic Church made

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Speaker 1: me who I am in a not the way that

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Speaker 1: they were hoping for same.

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Speaker 3: And there's so much about Catholicism and Christianity that is

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Speaker 3: so deeply queer. And I mean transubstantiation is you know,

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Speaker 3: turning water into wine and the body of Christ and

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Speaker 3: all of those elements of something that you see is

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Speaker 3: more than what you are experiencing. It in its physical

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Speaker 3: form is integral to Catholicism and the spiritual beliefs. So

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Speaker 3: why Catholics are so bent out of shape with queerness.

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Speaker 3: Is boggling because it is innate in the belief system

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Speaker 3: of Christianity and Catholicism. If you've taken a little biscuit

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Speaker 3: into your mouth and imagined that being the body of Christ,

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Speaker 3: a the horror elements are there. You've got cannibalism, You've

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Speaker 3: got you know, transubstatiation again, and those things they're very

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Speaker 3: fertile on young creative minds. And I was an altar boy.

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Speaker 1: Oh so love that. I never got into that, but

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Speaker 1: I did pretend. I did lip sync in choire and

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Speaker 1: that's where I really started the drag Queen, like the

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Speaker 1: first like just lip sing some of those songs. I

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Speaker 1: could still hear them. I did a thing on my

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Speaker 1: Patreon a couple months ago where a lot of paranormal content.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not religious, I think of anything,

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Speaker 1: I'm witchy, but I don't see a lot of paranormal

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Speaker 1: content in terms of like not scripted stuff, stuff like

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Speaker 1: this exploring like the religious miracles and that sort of

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Speaker 1: thing as paranormal. But to me, I feel really drawn

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Speaker 1: to that, and so I was like researching all of

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Speaker 1: these different examples of when people believe Mary has come back,

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Speaker 1: or like the Shroud of Turin or whatever, you know,

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Speaker 1: all of these these miracles. Like in Italy there's this

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Speaker 1: vial of blood that it's supposed to be the blood

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Speaker 1: of some saints, and like, I'm probably getting this wrong,

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Speaker 1: but like once a year they pull it out and

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Speaker 1: they do this whole ceremony with like this bishop or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and then if it turns to liquid from the solid,

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Speaker 1: then that means there's gonna be a good year. But

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Speaker 1: if it doesn't, it's a bad year. And in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty it didn't turn to liquid. I'm like that kind

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Speaker 1: of shit. Come on, how can you not believe? And

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Speaker 1: like the paranormal, if that's like what you're told to believe.

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Speaker 3: What's worse the breakdown than between believing in the paranormal

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Speaker 3: and equivocating it with evil like putting a assigning a

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Speaker 3: good bad kinsey skin too. Yeah you know these supernatural.

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Speaker 1: Events, Yeah I don't. It's interesting because at least the Catholic,

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Speaker 1: the way that I was raised Catholic, it wasn't what

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Speaker 1: I hear from a lot of other evangelical Christians of

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Speaker 1: there's only one kind of spirit and it's the Holy Spirit,

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Speaker 1: and if there is a spirit that's not that's evil.

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Speaker 1: And I wasn't necessarily raised that way, but I guess

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Speaker 1: I don't recall much discussion of that, but certainly angels

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Speaker 1: or the Holy ghost or whatever, and then demons. But

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was raised with an understanding that there

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Speaker 1: are ghosts, and I encountered my grandmother's ghost when I

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Speaker 1: was like very young, and so that's really what got

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Speaker 1: me going and got me being like, Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: a thing.

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Speaker 3: Well and how did she appear to you?

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Speaker 1: She appeared in my bedroom?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 1: She or she was like in the room like I

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Speaker 1: was in bed. She wasn't over me, but she was

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Speaker 1: like in the room and she was like up. So

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Speaker 1: I want to say, you like floating and she knew,

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Speaker 1: she knew the assignment. She was like, I'm gonna be

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Speaker 1: a ghost.

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Speaker 3: And she was.

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Speaker 1: Slightly transparent, floaty and glowy, and she was she was

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Speaker 1: given ghost.

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Speaker 3: Was she did she have legs or did it just

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Speaker 3: sort of blend into atmosphere.

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Speaker 1: I don't. All I could look at was her face,

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Speaker 1: because it's like, I feel like, when you're in those situations,

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Speaker 1: you can't look away, you know, it's like I was

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Speaker 1: just equating it with someone too, like if you see

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Speaker 1: a bear in the wild, like if you look away,

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Speaker 1: you don't know what's gonna happen. Is it gonna charge

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Speaker 1: at you?

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Speaker 3: Is it?

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Speaker 1: So you just like stare like and then I kind

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Speaker 1: of I remember it being quick. It was a blip,

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Speaker 1: like she was there and she gave me a look

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Speaker 1: that was like you're okay, and then just like bye bye.

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Speaker 3: That has been kind of like the blip in my

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Speaker 3: mind when I've had ghost experiences or have seen something

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Speaker 3: that was there in an instance and then not. It

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Speaker 3: always feels like a flash, like a flash bulb where

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Speaker 3: like a flashbub goes off and you close your eyes

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Speaker 3: and you get that fading imprint, but it's it's it's

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Speaker 3: a lightning strike that quickly fades, and that feels kind

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Speaker 3: of conducive to a scientific explanation of supernatural. Are you

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Speaker 3: following doctor Dray four thousand on Instagram?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: Who's that? He's a chemist and a chemistry teacher and

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Speaker 3: he's like, chemistry is queer because it's all transitory and

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Speaker 3: here's why. And he's fantastic follow doctor Dray four thousand

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Speaker 3: because he sort of brings you know, chemistry and the

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Speaker 3: scientific discussion into something that is so creative and philosophical

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Speaker 3: that it's hard not to be able to take that

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Speaker 3: into a conversation about the paranormal as well, because and

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Speaker 3: looking at the paranormal as if it were chemistry. And

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Speaker 3: you know, when we first met, we talked about an

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Speaker 3: experience that I had and I was living in in

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Speaker 3: the Crenshaw district in Los Angeles and around Westmoreland, and

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Speaker 3: I was in this old craftsman house and that just

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Speaker 3: had energy. And everybody who lived in that house said

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Speaker 3: they had some sort of experience with a free floating

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Speaker 3: apparition of some kind.

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Speaker 1: And Mike, there were multiple different ones.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, there was like a person who was in

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Speaker 3: the attic bedroom. They kept on seeing somebody. My experience

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Speaker 3: was I was in the bathroom and I opened up

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Speaker 3: the door to come out of the bathroom and there

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Speaker 3: was a little old lady in her bathrobe holding her towel,

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Speaker 3: and she looked up at me as I looked at her,

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Speaker 3: and we both startled, like we were both startled by

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Speaker 3: each other's presence in that moment. And so what was

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Speaker 3: exciting about that for me is that it absolutely happened.

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Speaker 3: I had the experience, I witnessed it. I had a

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Speaker 3: physical reaction that was not necessarily a chill, but more

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Speaker 3: of an electric current, and she was gone in an instance.

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Speaker 3: And for me, because I love science fiction, and my

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Speaker 3: explanation is that I was like, oh, two points in

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Speaker 3: time touched each other in that moment. And is that

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Speaker 3: a science fiction explanation of ghosts or was it an

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Speaker 3: echo of presence? Or was she there and we were

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Speaker 3: there at the same point of time, or were we

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Speaker 3: in different points of times that we're touching each other.

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Speaker 3: What I enjoy about it is that I can imagine

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Speaker 3: many different explanations for it, and I don't need to

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Speaker 3: know which one is accurate, right, just that it was

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Speaker 3: heightened and real to me.

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Speaker 1: And then she just disappeared in front of you.

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Speaker 3: It was like somebody took a picture of her and

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Speaker 3: I was looking through the camera lens and the flashbulb

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Speaker 3: ignited and then I closed my eyes and it was

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Speaker 3: that after image, you know when a flashbulb goes out

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Speaker 3: in its sort of silvery and translucent. So that was

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Speaker 3: the quality of light in that experience that I mean,

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Speaker 3: that was very exciting for me because I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: that was real. It happened, and I felt something in

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Speaker 3: that moment, so I couldn't deny it. I've been in

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Speaker 3: situations where I've seen ghosts around sleep states, and I've

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Speaker 3: been able to sort of say, like, well, you know,

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Speaker 3: how much of that was sort of a sonombulus kind

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Speaker 3: of experience. How much of that was Oh gosh, what

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Speaker 3: do they call it when sleep paralysis? Sleep paralysis? And

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Speaker 3: I have had a sleep paralysics experience and it was

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Speaker 3: different than waking up and seeing ghosts standing around my bed. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so the sleep paralysis experience I've had was almost like

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Speaker 3: a crystalline entity, like a physical like a crystalline shape

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Speaker 3: above my body. It was almost like a vessel above

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Speaker 3: my body, and I couldn't move, and I could hear

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Speaker 3: the scream building in my throat because I was I was.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't terrified of it. I was terrified of not

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Speaker 3: being able to move.

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Speaker 1: That is so scary. Yes, I am a believer that

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Speaker 1: there's some things that can be explained by science and

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Speaker 1: can't be explained by science, and there are our explanations,

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Speaker 1: firstly prolysis, but I think that it could be both

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Speaker 1: things happening at the same time, I don't discredit people.

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Speaker 1: That's when they say, like I saw a demon in

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Speaker 1: my room and I couldn't move, I'm not. I'm not like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that was just something that can be explained by science,

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Speaker 1: Like I think it's I think that could have really

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Speaker 1: been in some kind of creature, right.

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Speaker 3: And it could be explained by science in some way.

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Speaker 3: Like that's why, you know, a scientific explanation of something

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Speaker 3: paranormal does not obviate it from being a paranormal experience.

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Speaker 3: It just sort of rationalizes it. And I kind of

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Speaker 3: I kind of like that, like it's that's where it

350
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Speaker 3: does become witchy and magical, because witchcraft is alchemy and

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Speaker 3: there is a scientific basis for it. It's not broad.

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Speaker 3: It's sort of the the merging of science and nature.

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Speaker 3: But nature is science, So how can you step rate

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Speaker 3: them in that way that I find really exciting to

355
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Speaker 3: talk about and explore, because I mean, we don't know

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Speaker 3: how our brains work most of the time, Like how

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Speaker 3: are we supposed to understand how a vision of light

358
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Speaker 3: is appearing to us in any circumstance? And and I've

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Speaker 3: I lived in an apartment in Cochrane in on Cochrane

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Speaker 3: in Los Angeles, third and Cochrane. And there were many,

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Speaker 3: many experiences in that apartment.

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Speaker 1: Wait, wait before we get to that one. So the

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Speaker 1: first house, did you have other experiences or was that

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Speaker 1: the only time that there was.

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Speaker 3: Emotions?

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Speaker 4: There were there were kind of light plays, but that

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Speaker 4: was the one thing that I was like, Okay, hey,

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Speaker 4: that's undeniable.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean light plays?

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Speaker 3: Shadows, moving light coming through curtains, dissipating the light in

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Speaker 3: a way. I mean my first as a very young child,

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Speaker 3: my bedroom, I could see into the living room and

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Speaker 3: when the curtains were drawn, light would pass through them

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Speaker 3: in a way that was a traditional depiction of what

375
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Speaker 3: we've seen in popular culture as ghosts. What you know

376
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Speaker 3: in terms of you and in my mind, I could say, Okay,

377
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Speaker 3: that's light passing through the curtains. That's whether moving the

378
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,719
Speaker 3: light in a way that my childhood imagination took it

379
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Speaker 3: to a place that felt magical and heightened, but was

380
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Speaker 3: not like the experience I had with the ghost spirit

381
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Speaker 3: in that house in Westmoreland. So I could differentiate those.

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Speaker 1: Did anybody else in that house ever see that woman?

383
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 3: Well, the the person who lived in the attic saw

384
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Speaker 3: a woman very regularly, and it was a younger woman

385
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Speaker 3: because I was like, no, this was an older woman.

386
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Speaker 3: This was like her hair was back. I could like,

387
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Speaker 3: I could see the lines on her face. I could

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Speaker 3: I could see that she was an older woman and

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Speaker 3: that she was also you know, had shrinkage, you know,

390
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 3: you know from age that she was you know, a

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Speaker 3: little little hunched. And she was in a bathroom when

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Speaker 3: she was holding her towel.

393
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Speaker 1: She was probably so terrified just getting ready to take

394
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Speaker 1: a nice little bath.

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Speaker 3: Wow, is this tall man in her bathroom, you know,

396
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Speaker 3: with a towel wrapped around his waist.

397
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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I wondered, did she open?

398
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Speaker 3: You?

399
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: Open the door?

400
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 3: I opened the door and she was like it was

401
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 3: it was one of those experience that we've all had

402
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Speaker 3: when we're opening up a door and somebody's about to

403
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 3: open it and it's like, oh, like there's a startle

404
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 3: and it's like, oh, hi there and come on in.

405
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 3: But it was it was in a flash. And I

406
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 3: think about her a lot. I think about like, oh God,

407
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 3: you know, I I wish we could have had a conversation.

408
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 3: I wish we could have had more than just a

409
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 3: microsecond of a moment that we shared together and also

410
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 3: a shared supernatural experience that we could discuss.

411
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Speaker 1: It's just so weird to think, like why did it

412
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: happen at that moment, and like I don't know, I

413
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: because how much longer did you live there? I lived

414
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: there for like a year, and you never saw her again.

415
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Speaker 3: I never saw her again, and I wanted to. I wanted,

416
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 3: but I also like, I witnessed a murder in that

417
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Speaker 3: house in the front yard. It was a tough neighborhood

418
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Speaker 3: and there was a gang murder on the front lawn.

419
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 3: Took the cops like forty minutes to show up. I

420
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 3: called them so many times.

421
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: And say, wow, this guy's still in the front yard. Wow.

422
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, they and they were. I had learned at that

423
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 3: time that they don't they give it time for everybody

424
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 3: to dissipate because they don't want the cops to be

425
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 3: put into a dangerous situation. So they let everything. They

426
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 3: just let the person die. And it was fascinating because

427
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 3: it was kind of the first awareness like oh, they

428
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 3: don't know what they're doing. Because the cops were like,

429
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Speaker 3: are you sure he was shot? And I was like, yes,

430
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 3: he was shot. Like how they shot him in the

431
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 3: back and they're like, we don't see it, and they

432
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 3: lifted him up, and when they lifted him up, his

433
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 3: shirt kind of came up and there was like a

434
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 3: big hole in his.

435
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: Back and he was dead at this point.

436
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 3: And I was like, well, there's the bullet hole, and

437
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 3: they were like, oh, there it is, and so I

438
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 3: was just like, I don't nobody knows what they're doing.

439
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 3: So that was upsetting. But the house had like was

440
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 3: sort of a confluence of little ghostly experiences as an

441
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 3: old house and an old neighborhood in Los Angeles. So

442
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 3: that was if it were if I didn't see the

443
00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 3: personality in this this entities face and expression, I could

444
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 3: say like, oh it was, you know, a drifting apparition.

445
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 3: But I saw personality. I saw a relatable human reaction

446
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 3: to my presence, and so the entity was dimensionalized as

447
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 3: a person as opposed to just a ghost or a

448
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: spooky thing. It was there, there was a person in

449
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 3: that entity experience that I was interacting with.

450
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: I think this is my favorite kind of ghost story. Seriously,

451
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: Like anytime I hear these ones that make it seem

452
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: like spoiler alert, the others, the movie, the others, like

453
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: that idea to me is so fascinating and I don't

454
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: necessarily know that it seems like that's always the case.

455
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: It just seems like, yeah, maybe it is some kind

456
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: of science fiction y thing that happens sometimes. Who knows why,

457
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: but it seems to be about a handful of times

458
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: on the show had people over the years tell me

459
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: a story like that that would make you believe, Oh

460
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: my god, where the.

461
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 3: Ghosts right right? I'm obsessed And I kind of I

462
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: was like that house had been there for a long time.

463
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 3: So the idea, I mean, there's something also kind of

464
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 3: mutual and beautiful about that relationship that I am her

465
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 3: ghost and she is my ghost and we are providing

466
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 3: an experience for each other.

467
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: She's probably on a podcast right now, being like one.

468
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 3: Time there's this guy who shut up in the bathroom.

469
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, she probably is.

470
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 3: Well. I mean that was the thing that occurred to me.

471
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 3: It is like, who says that this woman was from

472
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 3: the past. Yeah, you know, maybe I am her past

473
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 3: and she is the future. And that was kind of

474
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 3: fun to imagine this, you know, chain link of a

475
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 3: timeline and you don't know is it is it moving

476
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 3: forward or is it moving backward, and that was because

477
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: we always center our elves in the narratives because that's

478
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 3: our experience. But I love the idea of being her ghost.

479
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: I know, that's so fun. You have to be a ghost.

480
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be I mean so, and I like

481
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 3: it that.

482
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I will say she's probably from

483
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: the past because grannies are kind of a thing of

484
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: the past. Have you seen a woman in her eighties nowadays?

485
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 1: Like they're hot? Yeah, yeah, they are fine. There's no

486
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: such thing as like little old grannies.

487
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 3: No, No, they are.

488
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: In you know, Minnesota, but like the little hard candy Like, no,

489
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: these are only people that anytime I watch a sixties

490
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: documentary you see some lady on LSD doing this dance mood,

491
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: I'm like that someone's granny right now, she's not a granny, and.

492
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 3: We have a geriatric porn So there you go. It's

493
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: a different expression.

494
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, oh god, no, I don't want

495
00:31:54,800 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: to think about grannies, So tell me another one.

496
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 3: Okay. So uh that was sort of college era. And

497
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: then I moved into this house or this apartment on

498
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 3: Cochrane in Los Angeles, like Third and Cochrane, and had

499
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 3: the sleep paralysis was when I was at school and

500
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 3: I was in a dormitory and that's when the crystalline

501
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 3: entity that was shaped like a bipedal person was hovering

502
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 3: over my bed and I couldn't move and that was wild.

503
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 3: But that felt like a sleep paralysis Stephen in terms

504
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 3: of the experiences that I've read about. And I was

505
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 3: like oh, because I was like, oh, crystalline entity is

506
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,479
Speaker 3: coming to get me, and that's awesome. But then I

507
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: was like, oh, these this is so once again, like, yes,

508
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 3: there there are many incidences recorded detailing these experiences, but

509
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 3: that doesn't necessarily mean they're not supernatural. It doesn't necessarily

510
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 3: mean yeah uh, And so that was terrifying because of

511
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 3: the paralysis. That was the most terrifying thing. And oh

512
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 3: and it grabbed my arms, It grabbed my wrists.

513
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: I hate that.

514
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like so that was the thing that like free

515
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 3: and I woke up with my my wrists in the

516
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 3: air as if they were like being clutched.

517
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: That was real.

518
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: It felt real.

519
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: Also a great dragon name Crystal Line and Tea.

520
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 3: Yes. Well, and if you're a star trek Faniel, that

521
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 3: goes deeper because there was an alien entity called the

522
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 3: crystalline entity and it would just suck up life force

523
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 3: and it became an episode, fantastic episode where it was

524
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 3: like that became this woman's moby Dick because it had

525
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 3: consumed her son and she was trying to kill it,

526
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 3: and they were like, no, it's just the thing that

527
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 3: exists that we should let exist.

528
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: You know, I never watched Star Trek. I know you

529
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: worked on it.

530
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's you know, it's one of the things that

531
00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 3: I love about Star Trek is the science fiction explanation start.

532
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 3: Like Star Trek, the Next Generation at its height was

533
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 3: doing what X Files was doing, which was really high

534
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 3: concept science fiction stories that often bridged into horror or

535
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 3: the spirituality. But then we're then explained in a science

536
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 3: fiction context, but not disproved, just explained, which is what

537
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 3: I loved about it. And so the Cochrane House or

538
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 3: Cochran apartment, that's where I frequently woke up. There was

539
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 3: there was an older woman who would watch me sleep.

540
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: These old ladies love you like.

541
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 3: I'm really good with like other people's mothers, grandmothers living

542
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 3: or dead, living or dead, And there was one time

543
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 3: that she brought some friends like I would I would

544
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 3: wake up and regularly see her.

545
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 1: Okay, wait a second, So the first time did anyone

546
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 1: ever tell you that this might happen when you moved in?

547
00:34:59,080 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 3: Yep?

548
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: So one night, how far in?

549
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 3: I was probably there for three months and i'd lived

550
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 3: there for like three years?

551
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 1: Three months. You're sleeping, did you live alone? And all

552
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:10,959
Speaker 1: of a sudden you wake up there's an old woman

553
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: standing there?

554
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 3: Yeah?

555
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 1: Now was she like my grandmother? Was she floating?

556
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 3: Was she she looked like uh, she looked corporeal, She

557
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 3: looked physical. She looked like she was in the room

558
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 3: because there was a light coming in from you know,

559
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 3: the window that was on the opposite side of the room,

560
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 3: so she was lit as if though she were physical.

561
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 3: The woman in the house in Westmoreland. That was the

562
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 3: flashbulb kind of experience. And this woman didn't disappear what

563
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 3: I looked at like, she was just there.

564
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: No, she's supposed to, yes, But you didn't think for

565
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 1: a second like is this really a lady that crept

566
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: into my house?

567
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 3: Yeah for a second. And then but I would look

568
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 3: at her for a long time and then I would

569
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 3: blink and she would go away. And it was quasi

570
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 3: when I I'm saying quasi romantic, not that it was sexualized,

571
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 3: but you know the you know when your eyes meet

572
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 3: across a crowded room type of thing where you're just

573
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: looking at somebody in their eyes and you're feeling a connection.

574
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 3: That was the experience of looking at this woman and

575
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: she was standing over my bed. She was like a

576
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 3: foot and a half away from me, and but I

577
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 3: got no sense of threat from her.

578
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 1: What was the vibe just staring.

579
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 3: It was a very peaceful stare and there wasn't any

580
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: like the crystalline entity scared me because he lunged at me,

581
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 3: or it lunged at me and grabbed my wrists, and

582
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 3: that was terrifying.

583
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: But let's be honest, he as you were saying earlier,

584
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: manner awful.

585
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 3: It had male energy. This woman older. She was in

586
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 3: clothes and the you know, whereas the woman that was

587
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: at the house, she was in her robe and had

588
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 3: her towel. And that was very, very very specific.

589
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: This lady does she always have the same outfit on?

590
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it was very conservative. It was it was

591
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 3: like a dark dress. She was wearing a dark dress.

592
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 3: I couldn't see the colors because it was dark. Uh,

593
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 3: And I had had people who had slept with me

594
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 3: also see her, which was fascinating.

595
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: Oh my god, she's like a room for one more.

596
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, skewed over. Uh. And so that was

597
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 3: kind of an interesting confirmation to have somebody who was

598
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 3: sleeping in the bed and me sort of startling awaken

599
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 3: them waking up and seeing somebody next to the bed

600
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,240
Speaker 3: and confirming it the next day, I was like, Okay,

601
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 3: that's that's hot. That's a that's a hot move to

602
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 3: have that. And then the the great thing is when

603
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 3: she brought a bunch of people.

604
00:37:58,400 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 1: What was that.

605
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 3: I woke up one night and the room was crowded.

606
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: Stop. She's like, you, guys, you got to see.

607
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 3: This shit Like He's like you look at the way

608
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 3: he snores. And I don't think I snore. I snore sometimes,

609
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 3: But that was cool. And I remember specifically looking around

610
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 3: the room and seeing the different faces, and there was

611
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 3: somebody at the foot of the bed that was just

612
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 3: looking at me like this. It's sort of like who

613
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 3: it was a younger person, a younger man who was

614
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 3: just and he had a striped shirt on horizontal stripes

615
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 3: and was looking at it, had his elbows up on

616
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 3: the edge of the bed, like down by my feet

617
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 3: and was just like sort of looking and there. It

618
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 3: was like I was an animal in a cage that

619
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 3: they were looking at, like some sort of specialized experience.

620
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 3: But there was there was probably fifteen people in the room.

621
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 3: It was crowded, and that was It wasn't scary. It

622
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 3: was so cool. And once again you know blink and

623
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 3: they go away or they fade away, and uh that

624
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,479
Speaker 3: that felt special. I felt really special when she brought

625
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 3: friends and you know, once again like is she throwing

626
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 3: a party thirty years ago? It was like like, Okay,

627
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 3: at one o'clock in the morning, you're going to see

628
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 3: this dude in my bed. So coming to the bedroom,

629
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 3: everybody looks see there he is yeah, like hol yeah,

630
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 3: that's cool.

631
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wait, so are are you not the kind of

632
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: person that is gonna need to look into this and

633
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: figure out because like, did you do you ever think

634
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: to ask your landlord or whoever, or you know, look

635
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: for records of the apartment or.

636
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 3: It was a rental agency. So I asked, like what

637
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 3: the history and they were like, yeah, a lot of

638
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 3: people have over the years.

639
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: At least fifteen Yeah, and they've all died in this room.

640
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 3: But the one of the coolest experiences that was beyond

641
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 3: that was not sleep related, because the sleep related stuff,

642
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, it could be any of the number

643
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 3: of things I'm choosing because it felt magical, that it

644
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 3: was magical and spiritual and a heightened experience and lovely.

645
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 3: It was. It was it was, it was a cool thing.

646
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 3: It was affirming. I had an experience. And I had

647
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 3: two cats that lived there the entire time that I

648
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 3: lived in this apartment, and they always greeted me at

649
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,240
Speaker 3: the door. They always followed me into the kitchen because

650
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 3: I fed them immediately when I got home from work.

651
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 3: And so one day I came in and my hands

652
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 3: were full of groceries and I kicked the door shut

653
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 3: with my heel and went into the kitchen and the

654
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 3: cats didn't follow me, and I could hear them meowing

655
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 3: at the front door, and I went I was like, like,

656
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 3: what's up, Like they're usually you can't wait to get

657
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 3: their food because they haven't eaten since, you know, eight

658
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 3: thirty when I left, and they were staring at the

659
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: door and meowing. The door was chained and bolted, and

660
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 3: you have to put the key into bolted which I

661
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 3: didn't do because I had my hands full of groceries.

662
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 3: So that was that was an experience where I was like, Okay,

663
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 3: that's undeniable, like something happened there and the fact that

664
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 3: the cats didn't like the cats probably saw the chain

665
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 3: being chained and that was really.

666
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: But that's nice that they did it behind you. It's

667
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: like because they obviously they could have the capability of

668
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: locking you out then, so it sounds like really nice

669
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: and helpful and.

670
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 3: The like I've explained that story to I've told that

671
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 3: story to people and they were like, you just did

672
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 3: it absolutely, and I was like, no, I didn't. My

673
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 3: hands are full of groceries. I couldn't have right. The

674
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 3: confirmation that made it so lovely and exciting and wonderful

675
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 3: and aspiring is that I knew I couldn't have done

676
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 3: it because my hands I was carrying two sacks of groceries.

677
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: I believe you.

678
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:13,720
Speaker 3: It was cool.

679
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: Do you have other stories?

680
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:15,959
Speaker 2: Uh?

681
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 3: Those are the those are the main supernatural stories I

682
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 3: feel like I because of I mean, I love going

683
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 3: to cemeteries. I find cemeteries to be a very peaceful

684
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 3: place and kind of the old adage of like you

685
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 3: make cemeteries this beautiful park, because you don't want the

686
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 3: dead to leave, you know, you want them to be

687
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 3: happy where they are and stay in their graves and

688
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 3: have a good time. So I find cemeteries to be

689
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 3: places that are full of positive energy. Like I don't

690
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 3: find them terrifying. I find them really peaceful with like

691
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 3: deep roots did kind of wells of spirituality that that

692
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 3: feel welcoming and comforting. And you know when I was

693
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 3: talking about the electric experience with the entity at the house,

694
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 3: I went to burn in Switzerland for my birthday a

695
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 3: few years ago and I swam in the airs and

696
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 3: it was all this water running off of the Alps,

697
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 3: and so it was freezing cold, but it didn't feel cold.

698
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 3: It felt like you were an electric current and it

699
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 3: was it was so invigorating, and you you hopped out

700
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 3: of the water and you just wanted to have sex

701
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 3: because like your body was buzzing, and that's what it

702
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 3: felt like. And these experiences, it felt like there was

703
00:43:54,600 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 3: a supernatural, preternatural electric current run through you me in

704
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 3: that moment that that yes, we can manifest all of

705
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 3: these things with our brains, and our brains do amazing things.

706
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 3: But take the wind, take the aspiration, take the message

707
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 3: from the universe or what have you that it's something special.

708
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 3: One of the happiest moments in my life, one of

709
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 3: the most thrilling moments in my life, which was followed

710
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 3: by a big disappointment, was when I thought I had

711
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 3: a recovered memory of being abducted by aliens.

712
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 5: Just go with it, go with it, and I like

713
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 5: it popped into my head and I was like, holy shit,

714
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 5: Like I was abduct I was on a table in

715
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 5: a spaceship, surrounded by aliens who were like poking and

716
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 5: prodding me, and for.

717
00:44:53,880 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 3: A split second, the universe became so magical and big

718
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 3: and you know, filled with endless possibilities. And then I

719
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 3: contextualized the recovered memory and I was like, oh, I

720
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 3: came out of the aesthetic when I was getting my

721
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 3: tonsils removed when I was nineteen, and I was I

722
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 3: broke my heart because for a split second, everything was possible.

723
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: But also maybe maybe the moment that you got abducted

724
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: just so happened to be when you were under for

725
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: your tonsils could be could be is a possibility.

726
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 3: Well I think that's the that's the big point is,

727
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 3: you know, and why I get excited about scientists like

728
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 3: doctor Dre four thousand on Instagram is that they have

729
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 3: this queer, spiritual interpretation of science that allows you to

730
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 3: extrapolate from what they're saying and apply it to so

731
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 3: many different circumstances where we can talk about what would

732
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 3: be happening in his spiritual context. He's sort of the

733
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 3: there's something about him that is so warm and welcoming,

734
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 3: and it's all scientific based, and I imagine if you

735
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 3: had a conversation with him about the supernatural, it probably

736
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 3: wouldn't be as fun as him explaining the queerness of chemistry.

737
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 3: But what he says for anybody who's queer and looking

738
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 3: for buttresses and support structures for these moments where we

739
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 3: have something supernatural and special that we experience to kind

740
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 3: of go like, you know, life is pretty fantastic, and

741
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 3: we have to seize those moments and appreciate the whether

742
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 3: we are the ghost or they are the ghosts, that

743
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 3: we get to have contact with something outside of the system.

744
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: And it's I'm always like, it wouldn't be fun if

745
00:46:58,640 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: we knew everything.

746
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 3: No, I don't need to know everything.

747
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: I would be out of business. This show would be

748
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: nothing we'd just be talking about things, things that happened

749
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: to us, like, no, it's not that interesting.

750
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 3: It's it's not And the world is fantastic. I mean,

751
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 3: the things that we can do with our minds are astounding, astounding.

752
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 3: Like I remember as a kid staring at the house

753
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 3: across the street and with my mind being able to

754
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 3: collapse the distance with the window outside, where I went

755
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 3: into a state where the space between houses just collapsed

756
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 3: until I like, I just like I didn't even do

757
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 3: it intentionally, but it just brought the window from the

758
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 3: house across the street to the window of the house

759
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 3: that I was in. And yes, that's perception, Yes it's

760
00:47:54,200 --> 00:48:01,240
Speaker 3: it's kind of bending of physicality. But if we step

761
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 3: take a step back from how we understand a reality

762
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:09,439
Speaker 3: and say, you know, if this is a hologram, if

763
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 3: what we are experiencing is perceptual, then our ghosts, glitches

764
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 3: in the hologram are they extra added levels in the hologram?

765
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 3: Is spirituality? And the hologram makes much more sense to

766
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 3: me than a lot of the traditional explanations of time

767
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 3: and space and reality because I am open to these

768
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 3: supernatural experiences. So I'm like, Okay, is this another chain

769
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 3: of code and the hologram and how we perceive reality.

770
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 3: And that's why it's exciting to move beyond all of

771
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 3: these binary structures that we have been raised to believe

772
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 3: are permanent and reject them and float. That's what you

773
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 3: like When Pennywise is like we all float down here,

774
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 3: is like that sounds fucking lovely. Yeah, right.

775
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: I love to float well, And it's what's so interesting,

776
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: Like the idea that children can see ghosts, and I

777
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 1: always kind of feel that as we get older, same

778
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: thing with like animals that can you know, your cats,

779
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: like whatever can pick up on this. We're just so

780
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: clouded with boring adult things and the realities of the

781
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: world and all these structures that we're put into and

782
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: all these things we're told to believe that it takes

783
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: away that creative or whatever it is, that side of

784
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 1: our brains that is able to connect with the other worldly.

785
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 3: I swim regularly, and I don't think of it as exercise.

786
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 3: I think like, I'm going to the pool and I'm

787
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 3: playing for an hour, and I'm playing in an environment

788
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 3: where my body is not bound by the physical in

789
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 3: a way that it traditionally is, and I can float

790
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 3: and I can fly and I can drift, and it

791
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 3: is It makes me feel in tune with a spiritual

792
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 3: world in the way that you're never going to get

793
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,280
Speaker 3: me into a gym to lift weights. It's not gonna happen.

794
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 3: That I am transcending the physical by taking advantage of

795
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 3: the physical in a way that the fluidity of the environment,

796
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 3: the fact that I can literally fly like I am

797
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 3: flying through atmosphere in a way that is dream like

798
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 3: and feels like it is analogous to what I experience

799
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 3: in my dreams when I fly. That I would encourage

800
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 3: anybody who is looking for a form of physical expression

801
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 3: that is into spirituality go to a pool and play.

802
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: That's such great advice. Oh I love that.

803
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 3: It's like it's the thing that like I look forward to.

804
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 3: Just go to the pool and.

805
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: Play for an hour, float drift, We all float down here.

806
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 3: Yep.

807
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: You want to hear some ghost voice? Yes, okay, it's

808
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: time for EVP or ev please EVP Electronic voice phenomena.

809
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: It's when ghost hunters believe they've captured a ghost speaking.

810
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: You ever watch those shows, So it's that thing. So

811
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: what I do is I go to YouTube and I

812
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: look for people's EVPs and I'm gonna do two of them,

813
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: and I want you to tell me what you hear.

814
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna give you some options of what the

815
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: ghost hunter believes they've caught. Okay, okay, first one is

816
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: from full Moon Paranorm'll post it on the YouTube page

817
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,439
Speaker 1: called Haunted or Not. It is at the Lake Shawnee

818
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: Amusement Park. What is this ghost saying? Make sure it's

819
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:18,839
Speaker 1: not too loud? Okay, there's definitely some crickets going. There's

820
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: a lot of background noise. Do you hear it?

821
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 3: It's like a yeah, it's very small.

822
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: I the teeny teeny little voice.

823
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 3: I'm projecting, but I'm hearing. Help me? Can you see me?

824
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 3: Help me?

825
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: Can you see me?

826
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 3: Okay? That helped me? Is right?

827
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: But can you see me as as possible? That's not

828
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: what they believe it said.

829
00:52:58,800 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 3: Is it?

830
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: Are you serving? Mama?

831
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 3: I love this ghost already? Is it? B?

832
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: Have you seen my brother C f U, C K

833
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: or D. You're a super model? It's a RuPaul fan

834
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: would be.

835
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 3: Can we hear one more time? Oh gosh, I don't

836
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 3: think it's any of those choices.

837
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: They believe it's have you seen my brother. I hear

838
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 1: can you see my mom? Or have you seen my mom?

839
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 3: Well, it's also the cadence of it is odd, like

840
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 3: I would think it's like have you seen my brother

841
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 3: as opposed to have you seen my brother? I mean

842
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 3: if she's doing a you know, with music.

843
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:02,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, okay, I do believe that they caught something.

844
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: I don't know what it says. Okay, what's this next one?

845
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: This is from Fox Valley ghost Hunters, also posted on

846
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: the same YouTube page as that last one, and it

847
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 1: is at the Summer Wind Mansion in Lando Lakes, Wisconsin.

848
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: What is it saying?

849
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm hearing have some pizza?

850
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: Seriously, have some pizza? Okay? Is it a damn it?

851
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: I'm being bad? See damn I want pizza. Wait those

852
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 1: b CE damn it you piece of crap? Or d

853
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 1: damn there goes Pee Buddha Judge.

854
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 3: I think it's b pizza and it's a really seductive pizza.

855
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 3: That pizza must be so good. Some pizza. I feel

856
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,439
Speaker 3: like they're already inside me and whispering in my ear.

857
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 3: Some pizza.

858
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny because it's that's not what they believe,

859
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: but they believe something that I would say if I

860
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: saw pizza, which is, damn it, I'm being bad. Listen,

861
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 1: that's what they think, it says.

862
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 3: I could hear it.

863
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: I could hear that, I guess, but I hear it

864
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 1: like a pizza. Okay, let's do one last thing, just

865
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: like a rapid fire, unless it turns into something. I

866
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: don't know, but let's just hear your thoughts on some things. Demons.

867
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 3: I think that they're like, I think demons are misunderstood.

868
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 3: I think that, like what I love about Catholicism is

869
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 3: that if you look at the story and if you're

870
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 3: especially if you're dealing with like mean old Testament God

871
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 3: who's punishing everything. I'm on Lucifer's side, Like God seems

872
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,359
Speaker 3: like an asshole. Yeah, Like why Like of course he's

873
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 3: he's rising up, he's resisting, he is not falling in line.

874
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 3: It's our r R like the you know, the the

875
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 3: Indian movie Resist and Revolutionize. So that's demons. I'm also like,

876
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:27,399
Speaker 3: if you're going to all that trouble to get into

877
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 3: that little girl and communicate with that's effort, Like you're

878
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 3: like you are making effort to have a relationship.

879
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is that's impressive yes, that's more than a

880
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 1: lot of men do.

881
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 3: People don't return text and this person is occupying a

882
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 3: body to talk to you. They're they're invested in that relationship.

883
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,800
Speaker 1: Out in the farmlands of Minnesota or wherever.

884
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:52,479
Speaker 3: I mean, thank you for making the effort. That's something

885
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 3: I feel seen.

886
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: What about curses, You know, I was.

887
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 3: Just thinking about curses on the drive over here because

888
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 3: I was thinking about somebody whereas like, God, if I

889
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 3: had the opportunity to curse them, would I And I

890
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 3: was like, you know, I think the universe has to

891
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 3: take care of curses because I'm just I'm afraid of

892
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 3: the ricochet of curses, and also, like I believe me,

893
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 3: I am. I watched a lot of horror movies. I

894
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 3: imagine violent ends for a lot of people, particularly in

895
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 3: the Senate, and so I'm I'm definitely not of the

896
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 3: moral and ethical compunction to be above wishing bad for folks.

897
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 3: But I am. I also really believe in karma.

898
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: I very much do, which is why I wouldn't curse. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

899
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 3: I was just like, if you told me somebody that

900
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 3: I felt it deeply wronged me was in a tragic

901
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 3: car accident, I would really exist the corners of my

902
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 3: lips curling into a grin and wished them well, but

903
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 3: it would it would cross my mind that I like.

904
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: That's human. Yeah, I get a what about Bigfoot?

905
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 3: You know, I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and

906
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 3: so Bigfoot was a big deal because there were like

907
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 3: in the seventies, Uh, there were a lot of bigfoot

908
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 3: uh docu horror kind of franchises and uh we we

909
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 3: kind of don't know what bigfoot is specifically. There are

910
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 3: so many different interpretations and I can I can see that, like,

911
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 3: is there is there a missing link? Like one could

912
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,439
Speaker 3: have got away from Homo sapiens who were eating all

913
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 3: of the proto Homo sapiens, which is why we don't

914
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 3: see a lot of them because we ate them. Like

915
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 3: that's the kind of history is like we we were

916
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 3: smarter than them, we killed them and we ate them.

917
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 3: That's why there's there's there are gaps in our change

918
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 3: is because we're horrible.

919
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: So someone was like, this is a big foot burger? Yeah,

920
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: I caught one. I made it. I chopped it up right.

921
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: Come on over, we're gonna have a barbecue some bigfoot,

922
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: would you No, I'm a.

923
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 3: Pescatarian, got it, Yeah, I need I would like to

924
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 3: be vegan.

925
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: Now let me ask you this, what if it was

926
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 1: the Locknus monster, I might kind of fishy.

927
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 3: I mean, if it's already dead, and if there was,

928
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 3: if there if chef jose and Dress was preparing a

929
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 3: very specific meal with phams and you know, emolliates, I

930
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 3: might have to have a tape because I'm tempted when

931
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 3: I when a friend says, oh my god, this is

932
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 3: the best steak I've ever had, and I'm like, maybe

933
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 3: one bite won't morally and ethically destroy me. And I

934
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 3: just have to imagine it's a human child as opposed

935
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 3: to a cow or a baby cow. But possibly luckness,

936
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 3: if somebody was like this this beast, because I mean,

937
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 3: I've eaten eel, I've eaten a lot of I.

938
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 1: Ate a rattlesnake one time. How did it tastes like

939
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: chicken a little bit? But I was so gross out

940
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: it snakes grossed me out, like it was really nice.

941
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: It wasn't a chili. I didn't like it. And I

942
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: just remembered that you did Hannibal, yes, which is fun.

943
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: My last job, like day job was tour guy at

944
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 1: Universal Studios and we would talk about Hannibal. Would you

945
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: go buy the Dents?

946
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 3: Yeah?

947
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: Piece she was amazing.

948
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:46,479
Speaker 3: Oh she was so great.

949
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she was great. So the tour guys to

950
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: come out.

951
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 3: And wave and talk to people.

952
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I think there was a time when we

953
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 1: showed a preview or like a trailer or something of Hannibal.

954
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 3: Yes, she was very heavily involved because the trams would

955
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 3: go by, and I used to get like I got

956
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 3: in trouble once because when our offices were at the

957
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 3: Dela Reentu's Hitchcock Bungalow, I would take the golf course

958
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 3: and I would do my own Universal tour and so

959
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 3: many times I like turned a corner and was almost

960
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 3: ran down by a tram. And then there was like

961
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 3: a studio wide memo of if you have a tram,

962
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 3: if you have a golf cart, you are not allowed

963
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 3: on the tram routes. And I was like, that's for me.

964
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: I used to when I worked there, they would let

965
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 1: us like go jog around like I would jog and

966
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 1: just like walk around and sit over at the Bates

967
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 1: Motel or it was so cool.

968
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 3: I would like the up above amity, like the Amity Island.

969
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 3: There was like a little road and I would set

970
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 3: up there and get high and watch the tours.

971
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 1: Those houses are just a facade. It's so Hollywood. Oh,

972
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: I love it. And you know who I had on

973
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 1: this podcast was Butch Patrick, who did the monsters there.

974
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 3: And I did Mockingbird Lane, and Butch came and visited

975
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 3: the set.

976
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: Yes, And I was thinking about that too, because it

977
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 1: wasn't that shot in that area or that house or

978
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 1: one of those houses.

979
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 3: We built it like right around the corner from the

980
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 3: original Mockingbird House. We built our big Mockingbird house. Yes.

981
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: And he was telling me stories about like going to

982
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: because there was that Phantom of the Opera stage for Forever.

983
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't it bird Down? Yeah?

984
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: Stage twenty eight. I think it was called I don't know,

985
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 1: don't quote me on that, but it was super haunted.

986
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 3: Yes, And I had all of the opera boxes and

987
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 3: then you could pull up the floor and it would

988
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:43,960
Speaker 3: go down. And when we were going to do Mockingbird Lane, uh,

989
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 3: you know one of the show, one of the episodes

990
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 3: that was lined up is that Christian Chenowith was going

991
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 3: to play Marilyn Monster's original mother, who like gave her

992
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 3: up and we were she was going we were going

993
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 3: to do a whole fanom of the opera episode and

994
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 3: go back and time and we were going to film

995
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 3: it on those sets. And then the show never went

996
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 3: to series. Oh so yeah, but that, like I stood

997
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 3: on that set and you could just feel the energy

998
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 3: in the history of just being there and looking at

999
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 3: the opera boxes that were still intact. The fact that

1000
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 3: it was still there from the thirties or the twenties.

1001
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: It's so incredible. There's you know, another ghost there over by, okay,

1002
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: like the War of the World's plane crash. And then

1003
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 1: there's like that big screen with like the pit thing.

1004
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 3: I don't know, uh huh yeah, were they where they

1005
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 3: fill it up? Yes?

1006
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, over there, and it's.

1007
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 3: The house from that John Candy Dan Aykroyds. Yeah.

1008
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 1: So over in that area somewhere people see this pilot

1009
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: man because on like the opening day back in nineteen

1010
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 1: fifteen or whatever, there was like a guy that was

1011
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: hired to do like plane tricks and crashed and people

1012
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 1: see him walking around.

1013
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 3: Oh wow, because that's also right it like the six

1014
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:10,919
Speaker 3: million dollar man tunnel is right there.

1015
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't know if it's still that. I don't know,

1016
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: it's something else. Yeah, but I worked there probably twenty fourteen,

1017
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen or something like that. Oh, such a I

1018
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 1: haven't been back yet. It's magical.

1019
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 3: I love Universal Studios too, and Warner Brothers, like both

1020
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 3: of those lots are magical and paramount.

1021
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: I'm so happy you came by.

1022
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me by.

1023
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 1: Your brain is incredible. I mean yeah, you create literally

1024
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 1: worlds for us to consume. So this brain it just

1025
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 1: hearing you talk about the paranormal, it's really really cool.

1026
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 3: Well I rarely get to do it, so this was delightful.

1027
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 1: Well, thank you. Can you tell people like you know

1028
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: what's where to find you? What he got going on?

1029
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 3: I met Brian Fuller on Twitter and brain Fuller Graham

1030
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 3: on on Instagram. I'm doing uh, We're working on a

1031
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 3: Crystal Lake series that's coming up, and I'm about to

1032
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 3: do a movie with Mats Michelson called dust Bunny about

1033
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 3: a little girl who hires a hit man to kill

1034
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 3: the monster under her bed. And so yeah, it's gonna

1035
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 3: be an exciting year.

1036
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: And Queer for Fear.

1037
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:23,919
Speaker 3: And Queer for Fear and shutter watch it and ask

1038
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 3: for more. Yes, we have like three seasons worth of

1039
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 3: material and we've only done four episodes.

1040
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 1: I love it well, Thank you, thank you, thank you

1041
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 1: so much to Brian Fuller. Again, check out Queer for Fear.

1042
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: That was I mean again, I don't know what I

1043
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 1: was expecting out of that conversation because the man is brilliant,

1044
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 1: but he really he really opened my eyes to a

1045
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 1: lot of things. And the stories. How fun. Oh, it

1046
01:05:56,240 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: was a great, great, great, great time. Okay, guys, are

1047
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 1: you subscribed to the show, Make sure you rate it

1048
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 1: five stars. Wherever you listen, tell your friends about it,

1049
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 1: and you know the Patreon still exists. The link is

1050
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: in the description of this show, and the YouTube video

1051
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 1: versions are linked there as well. You know, I love

1052
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: me a listener episode, so send me your listener stories

1053
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 1: to ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com. Put in

1054
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: the subject line listener episode, and then just give me,

1055
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 1: you know, some bullet points of what your stories are about.

1056
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 1: I am on Instagram at Roz Hernandez TikTok and Twitter

1057
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 1: at It's raz Hernandez. I love you all, both living

1058
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 1: and dead. But if I didn't ask you to haunt me,

1059
01:06:47,760 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 1: don't haunt me. Came Back star bands offer a podcast,

1060
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 1: a podcast network