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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is a good

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Speaker 2: old fashioned stuff you should know. Medical mystery episode.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Look at Jerry were there. She's just sitting there. She's frozen.

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Speaker 1: And what you can do is, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you know this, Josh, if you walk over to Jerry

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Speaker 1: and take her hand off the keyboard and raise it

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Speaker 1: above her head, she'll just keep it there until you

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Speaker 1: move it back down.

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Speaker 2: Why, Chuck, sounds a lot to me like Jerry might

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Speaker 2: have chronic encephalitic lethargica.

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Speaker 3: I think you might be right.

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Speaker 2: I might be right. I might be partially right. I

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Speaker 2: think I would have been more right if I had

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Speaker 2: called it encephalitis lethargica. But that's probably what she has.

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Speaker 2: If those are her symptoms.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: File this under medical mysteries and also filing under a

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Speaker 1: Julia jam But we're basically going to call it el

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Speaker 1: or encephalitis lethargica here and there. I was also known

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Speaker 1: as the sleepy sickness, sometimes the sleeping sickness, although there's

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Speaker 1: a new sleeping sickness that is not to be confused

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Speaker 1: with the previous one.

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Speaker 2: No, it's spread by the tetsifly and it's epidemic. I

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Speaker 2: don't think it's endemic yet in Africa, and it has

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Speaker 2: got a couple of similar symptoms, but they're in no

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Speaker 2: way related from what I understand.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about an outbreak that happened in the early

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Speaker 1: twentieth century in Europe, starting in about nineteen sixteen, wherein

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, people would kind of out of nowhere,

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Speaker 1: they would lose mobility, some people would fall into a

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Speaker 1: coma like state or a sleep like state. Many many

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Speaker 1: people would die within days, and it reached epidemic proportions

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Speaker 1: in at least four continents by nineteen nineteen, killed hundreds

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Speaker 1: of thousands of people.

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Speaker 3: And it's a medical mystery because we still don't.

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Speaker 1: Know exactly why it happened or why it just kind

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Speaker 1: of suddenly went away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, where it came from, what caused it? Nothing, We

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Speaker 2: don't know almost anything about it. They just kind of

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Speaker 2: know the symptoms enough that when you see the very

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Speaker 2: very very rare case come along these days, you can say,

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Speaker 2: I think this actually is encephalitis lethargica. And there was

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Speaker 2: something you said about people being struck into like a

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Speaker 2: coma or sleeplike state. The people who are struck with

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Speaker 2: in cephalites lethargica, they weren't like laying there like sleeping

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Speaker 2: beauty on their backs with like their hands crossed over

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Speaker 2: their chest like it was like you're saying, like they

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Speaker 2: might have their hand in the air and their mouth

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Speaker 2: open and like a silent scream and their eyes were open.

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Speaker 2: They just weren't moving at all and they were just

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Speaker 2: sitting like that. That's the kind of like horrible symptom

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Speaker 2: that you could suffer from for decades. Like once that started,

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Speaker 2: it might just keep going on for the rest of

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Speaker 2: your life, even though this happened to you and childhood.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly so. And there's a bit of a reveal

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Speaker 1: that we're going to hang on to here. But we're

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Speaker 1: gonna start off with not a reveal because that's not

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Speaker 1: how you do things in the.

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Speaker 2: Three act structure, not in the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Biz no, no, No.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna start out nineteen sixteen with a doctor constantin Vaughan.

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Speaker 1: Is it economo or Economo? I? Like the first one

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Speaker 1: that's like saying is it economy or economy?

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Speaker 2: This sounds to me like a Cosmo Kramer alias why.

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Speaker 1: Don't you just tell me the name of the movie

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Speaker 1: you want to see.

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Speaker 3: I'll never not laugh at that bit.

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Speaker 2: No, it's a good one.

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Speaker 3: Oh boy.

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Speaker 1: So he was a doctor at the University of Vienna's

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Speaker 1: psychiatric neurological clinic and he started seeing some strange cases

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Speaker 1: come through his office in nineteen sixteen where the symptoms

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Speaker 1: were you know, they had diagnoses on the charts, like

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Speaker 1: meningitis or MS or delirium, but the symptoms weren't matching

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Speaker 1: these things or anything else that he could think of. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the first thing he did was ruled out neurological toxins,

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Speaker 1: infections and neurological disorders, and then was like, all right,

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Speaker 1: I'm open here. Let let's like, no one knows what

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Speaker 1: this is and we need to figure it out, so

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Speaker 1: let's sort of put our minds to this thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he dove in. He started describing it. He wasn't

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Speaker 2: actually the first one to describe it. I think he

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Speaker 2: was actually beaten by a couple of days, even though

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Speaker 2: some people say it was the opposite way around, by

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Speaker 2: a French physician named doctor Renee Cruschet. The difference was

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Speaker 2: doctor Crusette's take was that this was maybe a behavioral disorder,

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Speaker 2: and doctor Economo von Economo said, no, this is like

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Speaker 2: clearly some sort of infection or something like that. It's

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Speaker 2: an epidemic. It's transmissible. So that's why this is sometimes

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Speaker 2: called Economo encephalitis. It was essentially named after him because

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Speaker 2: he was the guy who said, this is what's going

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Speaker 2: going on. This is what I think is going on.

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Speaker 2: Check out these nutso symptoms.

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Speaker 1: Right, not so nuts to at first, because when people

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Speaker 1: would come in at first, they had basically looked like

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Speaker 1: the flu, you know, fever, coughing, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: what you would think of. Everyone said the flu, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. Yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 2: That's I watched Zuelander recently.

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Speaker 1: You know, a picture is worth a thousand words. A

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Speaker 1: Josh impression of the flu was worth at least twenty

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Speaker 1: of my words.

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Speaker 2: All right, thanks?

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Speaker 3: Was that part of Zulander, did you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? He had the black clung when he went back

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Speaker 2: home to mine coal with his dad.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I love that dumb movie.

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Speaker 2: It is a really great dumb movie. I was like,

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Speaker 2: this is pretty great still.

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Speaker 1: All right, So flu like symptoms at first, then just

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Speaker 1: a huge array of neurological symptoms that were really inconsistent

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Speaker 1: among the patients, the severity of which was pretty inconsistent.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it varied widely from one to another. But one

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Speaker 1: of the most common threads of these neurological symptoms was

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Speaker 1: something called hyper somnolence, which is just really really sleepy,

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Speaker 1: like feeling really sleepy, and then eventually it could lead

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Speaker 1: to that coma like state where you're just sort of

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Speaker 1: locked in.

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Speaker 2: So here's the thing. I so the sleep, the type

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Speaker 2: of sleep though that is common among people struck within

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Speaker 2: cephalitis lethargica, is not what you would consider sleep. They're

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Speaker 2: not getting rest. You can wake them very easily. They

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Speaker 2: are probably semi aware of what was going on around

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Speaker 2: them the whole time they were sleeping, but they couldn't

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Speaker 2: not fall asleep. Another thing that sometimes gets chalked up

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Speaker 2: under this hypersominolence is freezing mid action, like maybe they're

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Speaker 2: taking a bite of broccoli. That's a bad example because

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Speaker 2: they probably are like, I can't make myself eat this brocoli.

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Speaker 2: It's so disgusting. But let's say they're eating like a

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Speaker 2: delicious animal cracker, and they stopped mid bite. They might

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Speaker 2: not move again, or they might like hear a song

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Speaker 2: or something like that, and all of a sudden they

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Speaker 2: start eating the animal cracker again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not.

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Speaker 2: The point is it's called the sleeping sickness. It's not

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Speaker 2: sleep as you would understand it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's good to clear that up.

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Speaker 1: Thanks, because sleeping sickness sounds pretty good to me right

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Speaker 1: about now.

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Speaker 2: It kind of does.

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Speaker 1: Half of these cases, it was a pretty wide age range.

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Speaker 1: About half of them were in people aged ten to thirty.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, a lot of the patients died. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: they died within like a week or two after onset

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Speaker 1: of symptoms. There was one case of a girl who

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Speaker 1: was walking home from a concert suddenly experienced a paralysis,

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Speaker 1: fell asleep within about a half hour, and died less

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Speaker 1: than two weeks later.

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Speaker 2: There was also some weird stuff, as we'll see, that

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Speaker 2: had to do a psychiatric system symptoms, where sometimes people

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Speaker 2: would be fine after you know, suffering from this for

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Speaker 2: a couple of weeks, but they will their personality would

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Speaker 2: have changed. There was one report of I guess a

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Speaker 2: study found four reports of people who developed kleptomania after

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Speaker 2: having suffered this and then ostensibly were cured from it.

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Speaker 2: So like, it could really mess with your head, essentially

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Speaker 2: in just about any way your head can be messed with.

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Speaker 1: Uh did win Ona Writer claim that was her? Remember

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Speaker 1: when she was stealing stuff?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I remember.

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Speaker 3: It was so weird.

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Speaker 2: It was a big deal.

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Speaker 3: She came back pretty strong, which I'm glad. I like

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Speaker 3: Winona Writer. She does a great job in Stranger Things.

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Speaker 2: Oh, she's awesome and everything she's ever been in. Heather's Dude,

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Speaker 2: just one of the all time great movies. She was

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Speaker 2: great Mermaids, and then yeah, all the way through to Beetlejuice.

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say Beetlejuice Beetle Juice, but definitely Beetlejuice.

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Speaker 2: And then Stranger thinks.

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Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, and a great crush of much of gen

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Speaker 3: X for sure. Both dudes and chicks.

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Speaker 2: You got that straight. We're talking and dudes and chicks.

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Speaker 2: Jen X says that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they do, all right.

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Speaker 1: So Van Economo was studying all these people. He was

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Speaker 1: studying corpses of these people. He finally breaks it down

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Speaker 1: into its subgroups, the first of which is acute e

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Speaker 1: l That is the initial signals that you're going to get.

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Speaker 1: We talked about the fluey kind of stuff that you

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Speaker 1: get and all these neurological symptoms that are going to follow.

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Speaker 1: Then he broke those down into three forms, from most

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Speaker 1: common to least common, starting with the most common somnolent ophthalmologic.

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Speaker 1: How would you say that, ophthalmologic ophthalmoplegic, That's what I'm going.

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Speaker 3: With, all right, that's the most deadly form.

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Speaker 1: More than half the patients die when they have this form.

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Speaker 1: This is a really overwhelming sleepiness, but like you said,

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Speaker 1: you're aware, you're easy to wake up. The optimal part

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Speaker 1: is ocular paralysis, so you have you're not moving your eyes,

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Speaker 1: so if people come and they wave their hand in

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Speaker 1: front of your face, your eyes aren't moving or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. And also those neuro psychiatric symptoms that you

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Speaker 1: were talking about, like delirium sometimes confusion, catatonius, stupor stuff

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: There was also the worst report that I saw, and like,

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Speaker 2: I didn't see anything like this, but I checked and

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Speaker 2: it does seem to have been a case report of

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Speaker 2: a girl from the thirties who basically had a psychotic

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Speaker 2: break because of it, and she pulled out all of

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Speaker 2: her own teeth and ouch out both of her eyes.

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Speaker 2: A little girl did because of this. And again it's

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Speaker 2: just some weird outlier symptom. But as you see, when

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Speaker 2: we get further and further into this, it's just the

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Speaker 2: brain getting eaten up somehow someway in some fairly predictable regions.

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Speaker 2: So it's creating this whole cascade or galaxy of different

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Speaker 2: symptoms that are just the worst things that can happen

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Speaker 2: to your brain happening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the next subgroup of the next least or I

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Speaker 1: guess the next most common depending on which way you're

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Speaker 1: looking at it, is hyperkinetic. That is mania basically is

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Speaker 1: the big part of this one. You have a manic

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Speaker 1: phase in voluntary vocalizations and kind of herky jerky movements,

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Speaker 1: and then a hypomanic phase where there's a lot of fatigue,

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Speaker 1: a lot of weakness, you can hallucinate, you can have

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Speaker 1: nerve pain in your limbs and in your face. And

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Speaker 1: this is one of the odder symptoms is your sleep

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Speaker 1: pattern will flip from day to night or I guess

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Speaker 1: night to day.

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Speaker 3: If you were a factory worker or something.

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Speaker 2: And there's another thing with that sleeping sickness part, you know,

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Speaker 2: like your sleep is messed up. I also saw a

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Speaker 2: chuck that in at least one of these people might

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Speaker 2: also be super sleepy but not be able to fall

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Speaker 2: asleep no matter how hard they try, which sounds worse

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Speaker 2: to me than most of the other stuff.

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Speaker 3: For sure.

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Speaker 2: There's a third one that he said is the least common,

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Speaker 2: but it's also a way that it can present. It's

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Speaker 2: called hemiostatic akinetic, which is you can't move akinesis. And

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Speaker 2: this is kind of what the classic idea of what

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Speaker 2: encephalitis lethargica looks like, where you're just you're just sitting

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Speaker 2: there with like, yeah, your right arms in the air,

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Speaker 2: your left arms a little further down, your mouth's open.

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Speaker 2: You're basically a statue essentially, is how it's described. You're

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Speaker 2: frozen in place and you're not going to move until

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Speaker 2: somebody maybe put some slight pressure on your arm and

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Speaker 2: then maybe you'll move it down. But it's not that

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Speaker 2: they're just going to put pressure on your arm for

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Speaker 2: a second and then you move your arm down, like

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Speaker 2: they have to move your arm down. And this is

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Speaker 2: what's called waxy flexibility. You can pose somebody in this

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Speaker 2: state any way that you want them to, So you

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Speaker 2: have to be very kind when you're dealing with patients

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Speaker 2: like this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I could not help but think that waxyf of

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Speaker 1: flexibility sounds like an album title for sure, like Guided

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Speaker 1: by Voices or somebody.

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Speaker 2: Lips inc.

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Speaker 3: Is that a real band?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're a function town people.

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Speaker 3: Oh oh okay, yeah, oh waxy flexibility. Sure nailed it. God,

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Speaker 3: why voice is? What was I thinking?

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Speaker 2: This is the the biggest part to me, I guess

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Speaker 2: part of all of this because of the sleeping part.

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Speaker 2: The people suffering this, including the people who are or

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Speaker 2: wax figures frozen in place for years or decades potentially,

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Speaker 2: are there mentally. They're not like locked in as in

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Speaker 2: locked in syndrome, where they know every single thing that's

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Speaker 2: going on around them at all times, right, But they're

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Speaker 2: essentially in the same boat where they're aware of stuff.

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Speaker 2: They're aware of time passing. There were people coming and

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Speaker 2: going and interacting with them. They cannot respond, they can't speak,

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Speaker 2: they can't change their position of their eye, they can't

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Speaker 2: focus their attention, they can't do anything that would suggest

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Speaker 2: to anyone that they are there in any way to

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Speaker 2: er form. And it wasn't until a genuine medical miracle

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Speaker 2: took place that we understood, Oh my god, these people

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Speaker 2: have been there in their heads the whole time. They're

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Speaker 2: not just like comatose, like just completely out of consciousness.

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Speaker 2: They're conscious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And you know, earlier I said

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Speaker 1: like they're locked in. I didn't mean the literal locked

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Speaker 1: in syndrome. I just meant sort of, you know, look

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Speaker 1: like they're locked in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't take it like that, Yeah, but I

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Speaker 2: think people might have. So, yeah, well, come on, guys.

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Speaker 1: We don't know how many cases there were. It was

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Speaker 1: a legitimate pandemic, though it's one of the things that

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Speaker 1: was hard to diagnose.

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Speaker 3: They think it was under diagnosed and.

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Speaker 1: Reported estimates run from five hundred thousand to more than

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Speaker 1: a million, but they think that maybe half of the

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Speaker 1: cases weren't even reported to who knows how many it

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Speaker 1: could have been. About a third of them died, a

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Speaker 1: third survived and we're kind of okay, And then a

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Speaker 1: third survived and then got it again later on, and

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Speaker 1: that is acute eel. So maybe we should take a

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Speaker 1: break and talk about chronic el after.

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Speaker 2: This let's all right, We'll be right back, okay, Chuck.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of the stuff I was talking about

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Speaker 2: about people being frozen in place as if they were statues,

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Speaker 2: they had waxy flexibility, mutism, catatonia, They weren't able to

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Speaker 2: respond or move or anything. When I said for like

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Speaker 2: years or decades, more accurately, I would have been referring

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Speaker 2: to the chronic form of encephalitis lethargica, because it was

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Speaker 2: essentially it seems to me kind of like ammeostatic akinetic,

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Speaker 2: but for years and years. The scariest part about all

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Speaker 2: this was that you had gone through the standard case

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Speaker 2: of encephalitis lethargica, one of those three that we just

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Speaker 2: talked about, and got better. You may have died, You

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Speaker 2: may have gotten better, but maybe you had like behavior changes,

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Speaker 2: like you turned into a kleptomaniac or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Or you got better and thought everything was fine, but

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Speaker 2: then you suddenly suffered from being just a ton of

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Speaker 2: bricks being dropped on you, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: you can't move for the rest of your life, even

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Speaker 2: though it's been ten years since you had that case

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Speaker 2: of encephalitis lethargica.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. The chronic is much the same as

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Speaker 1: the earlier but with a few added symptoms, one of

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Speaker 1: which is very, very strange. You can have mood swings,

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Speaker 1: pretty normal feelings of euphoria, and maybe even an increased libido,

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Speaker 1: which is not the weirdest thing psychosis in about thirty

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Speaker 1: percent of patients, again not the most abnormal thing in

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Speaker 1: the world, but excessive silliness in the use of puns

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Speaker 1: was an actual symptom that they saw over and over

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Speaker 1: again in acute cases. Yeah, isn't that bizarre or not

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Speaker 1: acute in chronic cases, right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, But again, the defining trait, the one that

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Speaker 2: people would point to and be like, oh, that person

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Speaker 2: has chronic encephalitis lethargica is that statue thing that I

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Speaker 2: was talking about, And that's more clinically called rather than

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Speaker 2: that statue thing, doctors tend to call it post encephalotic parkinsonism,

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Speaker 2: and parkinsonism is one of those difficult things to grasp

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Speaker 2: until you just stop trying to think too hard about it.

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Speaker 2: It's essentially a bunch of movement in neurological symptoms and dysfunctions,

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Speaker 2: and Parkinson's includes parkinsonism, but not all parkinsonism is Parkinson's disease.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Okay, it took me way longer than I

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Speaker 2: care to admit to finally just nail that down and

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Speaker 2: stop running in circles trying to figure it out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think they even had. One of

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Speaker 1: the reasons they call it post encephalitic PARKINSONI is parkinsonism parkinsonism, Gez,

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Speaker 1: that's a tough one, I know, or PEP is to

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Speaker 1: distinguish it from Parkinson's isn't exactly the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And one of the big things that distinguish it,

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Speaker 2: because a lot of that shares a lot of symptoms.

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Speaker 2: But one of the things that distinguishes post encephalatic parkinsonism

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Speaker 2: and Parkinson's disease is that Parkinson's disease progresses gradually in

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Speaker 2: a predictable pattern. Post Encephalatic parkinsonism, like I said, it

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Speaker 2: can come out of the blue. You could be again

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Speaker 2: sitting there eating an animal cracker, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: you never finished eating that animal cracker for the rest

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Speaker 2: of your life. It just can suddenly come out of

347
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Speaker 2: no where and you're just living your normal life, and

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Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, you're in an institution and

349
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Speaker 2: you're bound never to move again unless you happen to

350
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Speaker 2: be in the right place at the right time in

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Speaker 2: the late nineteen sixties.

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Speaker 1: That's right, And this is the big reveal. If you

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Speaker 1: were hearing these symptoms and you think, hey, that sounds

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Speaker 1: awfully familiar. I think I saw a movie about that,

355
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Speaker 1: then you're correct. This is the movie from the book Awakenings,

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Speaker 1: based on neurologist Oliver Sacks' book of the same name

357
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Speaker 1: about his work with EEL patients in the nineteen sixties.

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Speaker 1: I think there were eighty chronic el patients he worked

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Speaker 1: with at Beth Abraham Hospital in the Bronx, New York

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six.

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Speaker 3: When this came around and Oliver Sacks was in there,

362
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Speaker 3: e L had gone away.

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Speaker 1: Basically, it was a medical footnote, and not a lot

364
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,200
Speaker 1: of people in the nineteen sixties even knew much about

365
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 1: it because it was one of those things that they

366
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 1: never figured out what it was, or how it started,

367
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Speaker 1: or how to cure it or anything.

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Speaker 3: It kind of just went away.

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Speaker 1: So all the doctors were like, all right, God, I

370
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,720
Speaker 1: guess we don't worry about that anymore, right exactly, And

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Speaker 1: they just moved.

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Speaker 3: On to their other work.

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Speaker 1: There was a nineteen eighty five NPR interview where he

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Speaker 1: was talking about this is a quote motionless figures who

375
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Speaker 1: were transfixed in strange postures, sometimes rather dramatic postures, sometimes not,

376
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Speaker 1: with an absolute absence of motion, without any hint of motion,

377
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,679
Speaker 1: So everything looked frozen. And that was you know, Robert

378
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 1: de Niro's character in the movie Awakenings.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and all the others that he eventually grabbed together. Yeah,

380
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 2: in assemble. When's the last time he saw Awakenings.

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Speaker 3: It's been a while. I think I remember thinking it

382
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 3: was a pretty good movie back then. Though.

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Speaker 2: It's a great movie. Yeah, I watched it last night.

384
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Speaker 3: Who directed that? Do you know?

385
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Speaker 2: Laverne? Oh?

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Speaker 3: Was that Penny Marshall?

387
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Speaker 2: Yeah? She did. It was great. I mean, like, I

388
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Speaker 2: don't remember if Tonio got an oscar or not, but

389
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Speaker 2: if you didn't, that's one of the all time great snubs. Yeah,

390
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,159
Speaker 2: she did amazing. I forgot how wonderful Robin Williams is

391
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Speaker 2: to just man, what a great guy that dude was.

392
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Speaker 2: Great dude, great movie too.

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Speaker 1: Watching a thing with him this morning and very very

394
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Speaker 1: sad stuff.

395
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Speaker 2: Where were you watching?

396
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 1: It? Was an Instagram post of him with his mother

397
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Speaker 1: and his mother making him laugh, and I think the

398
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 1: whole point of the post was like, you rarely got

399
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 1: to hear Robin Williams like genuine laugh. And I heard

400
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: it and I was like, yeah, I don't know if

401
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,479
Speaker 1: I really ever heard that. And his mom made him

402
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 1: laugh that hard.

403
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 3: It was really sweet.

404
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:25,400
Speaker 2: Can you do an impression?

405
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,880
Speaker 3: It was kind of a haha ha thing.

406
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 1: No, I mean, not like that, but it was exuberant,

407
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: but it was like ha ha ha ha, not.

408
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 3: Like my goofy childish laugh.

409
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Speaker 2: I got you. Yeah. So good movie, and it was

410
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 2: one hundred percent based on this so much so that

411
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 2: it's funny they went to the trouble of changing the

412
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,119
Speaker 2: names of the change names that Oliver Sacks had in

413
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 2: the book.

414
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 3: Wow.

415
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 2: So yeah. So Wakenning's actually is pretty faithful in a

416
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 2: lot of ways. I mean there's a lot of like

417
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 2: movie stuff literary license in there, but yeah, the most part,

418
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 2: it's pretty faithful to Oliver Sax's book. And again it's nonfiction,

419
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 2: like Sex as a neurologist. Ory was a great neurologist

420
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 2: and a great writer too, so he didn't take a

421
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 2: lot of literary license as far as I understand. So

422
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 2: the movie. Being close to the book means the movie

423
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 2: was fairly close to real life. And one of the

424
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 2: tests that Oliver Sex conducted was he would demonstrate that

425
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 2: these people had demonstrated what's called paradoxical kinesia, where somebody

426
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 2: who seemingly can't move and hasn't moved for days, months,

427
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 2: however long it was since the last time somebody moved

428
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,439
Speaker 2: them could suddenly move in a way that they just

429
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 2: should not be able to. And the way that he

430
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 2: demonstrates it in the movie, and I believe in the

431
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 2: book he did this too, was he would toss them

432
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 2: a ball, and all of a sudden, somebody who's just

433
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 2: sitting there with their hands in the air and their

434
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 2: face frozen in this mass, this expressionless mask, just suddenly

435
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 2: moves their hand without even moving their eyes and catches

436
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 2: the ball. And that was, I think, again, at least

437
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 2: in the movie, I haven't read the book, how he

438
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 2: identified people in this what they call the chronic hospital

439
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 2: that he worked at in the Bronx by by finding

440
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 2: somebody who kind of fit these symptoms and then tossing

441
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 2: a ball at them. And there's a very cute, funny

442
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: part where he does it to one person and she

443
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 2: gets hit in the face and is like, ah, why'd

444
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 2: you do that? She clearly didn't have encephalitis lethargic as

445
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 2: pretty cute.

446
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 3: It sounded a couple of minutes ago, Like you said,

447
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 3: Oliver Sex.

448
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 2: I know, I didn't correct myself. You're an all time

449
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 2: great conversation analyst though for noticing.

450
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: That, well, I just I mean, that's a different movie altogether,

451
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: Oliver Sex.

452
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, also called Awakening.

453
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 2: So yeah, God, was that a couple of minutes ago?

454
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 2: I've been Have I been talking that much? Oh?

455
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 3: I have no sense of time. It might have been

456
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 3: ten seconds.

457
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 2: That was amazing, Chuck, you've been killing it with the

458
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 2: jokes lately.

459
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 3: Oh.

460
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 2: Thanks.

461
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: One of the things you mentioned there is like they

462
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: could catch a ball or something. Thing that would happen,

463
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: Like he said that if there was an emergency, like

464
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: another patient falls on the floor, all of a sudden,

465
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: somebody who like previously has not moved for days or

466
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: weeks or months might just leap up out of their

467
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: wheelchair and assist them and then sit back down and

468
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: go back to their statue pose. And that phenomenon that

469
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: you're talking about is that's the big key difference between

470
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: PEP and Parkinson's disease is called kinesia paradoxical, where you're switching,

471
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: you know, between mobility and immobility, and that is not

472
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: something that happens generally in Parkinson's.

473
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 2: No, but I saw that it does some so yeah,

474
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 2: but I think for the most part it's more associated

475
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 2: with chronic encephalitis lethargica, right, Yeah, So the original things

476
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 2: where this disease, this mysterious disease, incephalitis lethargica, suddenly appeared

477
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 2: out of nowhere in nineteen fifteen sixteen, ravaged the world

478
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: for ten years, and then just vanished. And like you said,

479
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 2: let a whole generation of neurologists off the hook for

480
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 2: having to explain what it was like. They really tried,

481
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 2: like people like Economo really tried to figure this out.

482
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 2: I think nine thousand papers were written during this epidemic. Yeah,

483
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 2: and there were some things that they kind of were

484
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 2: able to pin down, but the big, big questions were

485
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 2: just left unanswered. We just don't know. Like one of

486
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 2: the big ones is how do you even catch this

487
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: terrible disease?

488
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, like is it contagious or not? They still didn't

489
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: have a definitive answer at the end of their study

490
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: on that evidence on transmission was really really mixed. There

491
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: were a couple of anecdotal cases that kind of illustrate that.

492
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: One of them that was among seven members of a

493
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: family in a small apartment, only one family member got sick.

494
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: Another case, there was a girl living at something called

495
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: the Derby and Derbyshire Rescue and Training Home, showed signs

496
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 1: of el and then very soon within two weeks, twelve

497
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: of the twenty one residents got sick. So, you know,

498
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: both cases, like one looks clearly contagious, the other one

499
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: doesn't look like it's at all contagious.

500
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 3: So they didn't know.

501
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: Maybe they thought some people might be immune, maybe they're

502
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 1: different strains that were contagious or had different levels of contagiousness,

503
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: or maybe it's just something that they never figured out.

504
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was wondering too if the twelve of

505
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 2: the twenty one residents getting sick at that one home

506
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: was maybe just a case of mass hysteria or something interesting.

507
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 3: Yeah.

508
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 2: No, I think half of the people who got sick

509
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 2: died within ten days of falling ill, so they were

510
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,959
Speaker 2: not Yeah, that was not mass hysteria, So that is

511
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 2: just a genuine mystery, right, Like, this just doesn't make

512
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: any kind of sense whatsoever. So they started trying to

513
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: rule out things they thought it wasn't right. One was

514
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 2: environmental causes, so that would make it toxic encephalitis. And

515
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 2: I don't even know if we said at the outset,

516
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: did you I think that encephalitis is swelling of the

517
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 2: brain and spinal cord.

518
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 3: Oh no, Okay, So.

519
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 2: I'm sure everybody got like a pretty good idea that

520
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 2: encephalitis is something bad that you don't want to have.

521
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: But what it is is a condition where your brain

522
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 2: and or your spinal cord swells and it can start

523
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 2: taking on water, and from doing that, all sorts of

524
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: terrible things can happen. The thing is, encephalitis is not

525
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 2: just specific to encephalitis lethargica. A lot of different things

526
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: can make your brain and central nervous system swell. A

527
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 2: disturbing amount of things can make that happen, actually if

528
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 2: you stop and think about it. And one of those

529
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 2: things is environmental toxins. So that's toxic encephalitis. And that

530
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: got ruled out very quickly because there just was no

531
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 2: pattern whatsoever where everybody was exposed to you know, like

532
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 2: a Tesseract made of kryptonite or something like that for

533
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: our nerd fans.

534
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good.

535
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 2: I tried to touch you as bone just screwed it

536
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 2: up royally, So I'm sorry. I think I may have

537
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 2: just conflated did DC and Marvel and.

538
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, yeah, distractice Marvel?

539
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 2: Dude, No, I love it.

540
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 3: I love it.

541
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: Man.

542
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 3: You should meld those Superman meets Thanos. Sure, I want

543
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 3: to see those dudes fight.

544
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 2: Oh it'd be great. I'm sure that would be a

545
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: really interesting fight to watch.

546
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: Somebody's going to write in and say, actually, guys, it

547
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: happened in nineteen eighty seven, when.

548
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 3: You know, dude put out a comic.

549
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 2: I suspect that those people aren't going to speak to

550
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 2: us any longer. I think you're right.

551
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: Uh So, like you said, they rule that out, the

552
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: toxic exposure. Then they moved on to an infectious kind

553
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: of possibility, infectious encephalitis in fact, and that can be

554
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: you know, and infectious and cephalitis is a thing, So

555
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: it's not like we're we think it's that that was

556
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: already a thing. It can be secondary to bacterial or

557
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: fungal or viral or parasitic infection to use virus, it's

558
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: the most common type of encephalitis. It could be like

559
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: from the herpes virus, or maybe measles or West Nile,

560
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: even influenza. And considering how this went on during the

561
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: Spanish Flu initially, which happened in nineteen eighteen, and there

562
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: were flu like symptoms, they thought that, you know, this

563
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: probably early on at least was an influenza led infectious encephalitis.

564
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was I think von Economo's leading theory,

565
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 2: which makes a lot of sense because they tracked with

566
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: one another, like you said, at least the start. So

567
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 2: was this just some horrible strain of Spanish flu that

568
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: managed to continue on for years after Spanish Flu? And

569
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 2: I think that was incontrovertibly proven incorrect, because actually, in

570
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: when I did The End of the World, I talked

571
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: about this guy who went up and dug up the

572
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 2: corpse of an Inuit woman who had died from Spanish

573
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: flu to get enough of the genome of it to

574
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: so bring the Spanish flu back to life to study it.

575
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: It's one of the most breathtakingly arrogant moments in all

576
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 2: of science for somebody to do that. But the reason

577
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: we know that encephalitis lethargica wasn't caused by the Spanish

578
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: flu is because we had the Spanish flu genome and

579
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: we couldn't find any Spanish flu RNA in like collections

580
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 2: of tissue samples of brains of people who definitely died

581
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: from encephalitis lethargica, Spanish flu wasn't there. Ergo, it wasn't

582
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 2: Spanish flu.

583
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: And because Josh is always too humble to say so.

584
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: After an End of the World reference everyone if you

585
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: don't know, Josh had a great solo album, a eight

586
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: part or ten part.

587
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 2: It was a ten part subtitled Waxy Flexibility.

588
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: The End of the World with Josh Clark, where he

589
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: one episode at a time, examined ten I can't think

590
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: of the word existential risks that could humanity, some of

591
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: which are currently underway.

592
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Chuck, I appreciate that was really nice

593
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: to say.

594
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeh, very great.

595
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: You got to be a smarty pants, But even if

596
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: you're not as smarty pants, you should still give it

597
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: a shot. I think because I gave it a shot

598
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: and I'm not as smarty pants.

599
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: Hey, you are smarty pants, but yes, smarty pants are no.

600
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: I think everybody can be equally scared by this.

601
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, you did live shows too, So if you have

602
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: a time machine on your hands, go back and see

603
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: one of those while you're at.

604
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: It, and come talk to us. If you have an

605
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 2: actual working time machine as well, it'd be pretty neat.

606
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: Streptococcal infection was another possibility. At one point there was

607
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: some data that showed infection with streptococo bacteria was in

608
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: front of some of these cases of el and In

609
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one, our old pal, doctor von Ekonomo, did

610
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: an experiment and streptococcus vaccination actually led to el and

611
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: el like condition and dogs.

612
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah it's just sad, but yeah, the thing is the

613
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 2: thing that makes it even more sad. It wasn't definitive.

614
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 2: They weren't like, oh, it's a strep infection. It was like,

615
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 2: I guess it could have been. There was another group

616
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 2: called the Mathieson Commission that studied encephalitis lethargica. Because a

617
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: guy was sensibly by the last name of Mathieson, I

618
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: couldn't find who it was. He was a wealthy businessman

619
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: from America who had been struck down by encephalitis lethargica.

620
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: Believe he had gotten better, but not fully, and so

621
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: he used some money to try to get to the

622
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: bottom of this and funded this commission for thirteen years.

623
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 2: They put out four different reports and basically at the

624
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: end said maybe herpes. We don't know, And he said,

625
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: your finding's cut off. I've gotten into Sherlock home societies.

626
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 2: That's who I'm finding now.

627
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: At the end of all that dough for that many years,

628
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: you come back with maybe herpes?

629
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: Are you kidding me?

630
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 2: At give me herpes too? That reminds me when I

631
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: was a kid. I'll never forget one of the first

632
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: headlines that ever sunk in with me because I was

633
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 2: a Who's the Boss fan a little bit at the time. Okay,

634
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 2: it had to be The Inquire or something, but it

635
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 2: was Tony Danza gave me herpies. And I looked, like

636
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: just yesterday to see if Tony Dance I actually had

637
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: ever given anyone herpes, and it does not seem to

638
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: be the case. I don't believe Tony Dance it has herpes,

639
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: So that that headline was totally made up, and I

640
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 2: hope Tony Danza got some money from that for suing

641
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: the Inquirer.

642
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, we should issue that correction too. But you

643
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: got that Tony Danza band name wrong?

644
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 2: Oh I did?

645
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 3: In the metal episodes.

646
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: What do you know what the correct one was?

647
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 3: Well, what do you what did you call it?

648
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: I think I called it the Tony Danza tap dance Experience.

649
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: Is that not it?

650
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: I think if that's what you said, I think it

651
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: was a tap dance extravaganza. Okay, or it's the other

652
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: way around. Whichever one you said was.

653
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: Wrong, that's fine. I can live with that.

654
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, we had a few metal people right in

655
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 3: about that.

656
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: So can't you know, can't not correct the Tony dance

657
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: a tap dance extravagance.

658
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 2: I bet they were nice though, Like to person, pretty

659
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 2: much all the metal fans that wrote in. Yeah, yeah,

660
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 2: I said, even the ones correcting us really cute. That

661
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: was great.

662
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the metal way it is. All right. Shall

663
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 3: we take our other break?

664
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 2: Yeah sure, all right, we'll be right back.

665
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: Wait, all right, So we mentioned some people studying, you know,

666
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: different causes back in the day. They never could find

667
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: anything out, like we said, and for about thirty years

668
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: they just kind of left it there, and it was

669
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: in the late nineteen sixties when neurology researchers that we're

670
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: working on Parkinson's really hit on it when they developed

671
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: el dopa or levo dopa, which is a substitute for dopamine,

672
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 1: which is the missing neurotransmitter and Parkinson's disease. And it

673
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: was released in nineteen sixty seven and it brought akinetic

674
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: Parkinson's disease patients back to life. And if you've seen

675
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: the movie Awakenings, that's basically a big storyline. That's where

676
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: it picks up is when Oliver Sacks scores some el dopa.

677
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 2: He did off a guy selling it on the corner

678
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: below Beth Abraham Hospital exactly. Yeah. So he finally starts

679
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 2: with Leonard Low, who's Robert de Niro, not the patient's

680
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: real name, obviously. But there's just this amazing transformation where

681
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, these people again, who are these

682
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: frozen statue like people and have been for decades of

683
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: their lives, suddenly are like aware and talking and like

684
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 2: focusing their attention on you. And one guy's playing the

685
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 2: piano and they're like going out on field trips. Now

686
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 2: it's like they were just completely broad out of it,

687
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: and that's supposedly was very much the case with people

688
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 2: with actual Parkinson's disease, like they responded beautifully to el dopa.

689
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: But one of the reasons, one of the indicators that

690
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 2: post encephalatic parkinson ism and Parkinson's disease are different, is

691
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: that the people in Awakenings, the people with encephalitis lethargica,

692
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: they responded well for a little while and then they

693
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: started to show other symptoms that really kind of for

694
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: some of them, it basically meant you can't take al

695
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 2: dopa anymore, and incredibly sadly, like one of the most

696
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: sad things I can think of, they were left to

697
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 2: just go back to yeah, frozen statue state again. And

698
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: don't forget there is a great level of consciousness within

699
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: them when they're in the state. So they came out

700
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: of that state in which they were conscious, came to

701
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 2: full consciousness and full interactivity and maybe even left the

702
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 2: hospital on a field trip and then had to go

703
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: back to their frozen statue stay again conscious of this

704
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 2: whole experience.

705
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, very heartbreaking to see.

706
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 1: In that movie, there was one case of a woman

707
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: who is this the rose of which you spoke of

708
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: to me?

709
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 3: Privately.

710
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was Rose and then Lucy was her name

711
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:25,760
Speaker 2: in the movie for some reason.

712
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: Okay, well, this woman just one of the cases of

713
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: Oliver Sacks. She came out of it, and she basically

714
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 1: described like being aware of everything that was happening for

715
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: decades and understanding what was happening, but just not feeling

716
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: a connection to it, like there was this weird disconnect.

717
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: She knew about Pearl Harbor, she described knowing about the

718
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: assassination of Kennedy John f that is, and she said

719
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: that it just didn't seem real. She said, nothing has

720
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: seemed real since nineteen twenty six when I got the

721
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: encephalitis and came to a stop. I know him sixty

722
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: four now, and this is nineteen sixty nine, and that

723
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: I'm an elderly woman in a bizarre situation in a

724
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: chronic hospital. But I feel like I'm twenty one and

725
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: I feel like it's nineteen twenty six.

726
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, can you imagine?

727
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And very sadly, she was one of the ones

728
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: who did not like have her symptoms with al dopo

729
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 2: or too extreme to continue on taking al dopa.

730
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, and some people you know, came out and were

731
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: just overjoyed and elated with this kind of thing, obviously,

732
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: and some people came out, and obviously you could also

733
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: see it had a very hard time with lost decades.

734
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: It could not have been an easy thing to accept

735
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: either way. The movie that there is good news. There

736
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: is a bit of a silver lining because the movie

737
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: does not cover the fact that after this a lot

738
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: of the patients finally regulated with the el dopa and

739
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: were able to leave at least lead compared to sort

740
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: of their previous life, a somewhat healthy life, like they

741
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 1: weren't in that statue s locked in state. They might

742
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: not have fully recovered, but they led an okay life.

743
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And they do mention that at the end,

744
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 2: and those I guess postcripts where they talk about how

745
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 2: they continued on experimenting and some people kind of worked

746
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: out with a little bit so, but they don't they

747
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,760
Speaker 2: don't show it in the movie. The movie's all sad

748
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: at the end. It's so sad, and yeah, oh my god,

749
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 2: just go watch Awakenings again. I even watched it. I

750
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 2: accidentally watched Patch Adams first, and I wanted to watch

751
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 2: Awakenings so bad. I still watched it after Patch Adams

752
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: after Zoolander, and then I finally watched The Awakenings. I was

753
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 2: up till like four in the morning today last night.

754
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 3: I never I never saw Patch Adams. It's that was

755
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 3: sex too there right, and then.

756
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 2: No, it was just what it was Williams too. It

757
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: was Awakenings. I'll tell you that.

758
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I need to check that out. It's funny.

759
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: I met a guy named Leonard Lowe one time years ago,

760
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: and the only thing I could think in my head was,

761
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: my name is Leonard Lowe? Like I just remember Daniro

762
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: saying that you didn't say that to him, no, because

763
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: I figured, you know, like our listener Robert Paulson, he's

764
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: probably side of his jokes.

765
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: I never stopped saying that to Robert Paulson. I can't

766
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 2: help myself.

767
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: Uh so, what about these days? What do we think

768
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: about el of medically speaking?

769
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,959
Speaker 2: Well, so, one of the things that we did learn

770
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: that we still don't fully understand, but was something that

771
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 2: they recognized with el dopa and the study of the

772
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: patients before they were administered al dopa is that while

773
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 2: you're in a like this frozen state, like like I

774
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 2: said earlier, somebody like throws a ball at you, or

775
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: like you said, somebody sees an emergency, they can suddenly

776
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 2: move like normal and then they go back to that

777
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: frozen state afterward. They found that it's not just like

778
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 2: an emergency like a ball coming at you or your

779
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 2: friend laying on the floor because they fell down, but

780
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: things like music, human touch, even like obnoxious sounds like

781
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 2: a siren or something can basically prompt the person to

782
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 2: start moving again and like come back out of that

783
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 2: frozen catatonia mutism. And that was one of the things

784
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 2: that they found people could do on al dopa too,

785
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 2: Like even with the extreme like tremors or inability to

786
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: control the movement of your mouth or eyes, those could

787
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 2: be tamed by the same things by stimulating your brain

788
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 2: in some other way. And there is the story of

789
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 2: a guy who was a cobbler by trade before he

790
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 2: had gotten sick. Oh yeah, and the after el dopa

791
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 2: came along, he asked for like a cobbler's bench, and

792
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: the hospital staff got him one, and when he was

793
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 2: working at his cobblers bench, he was able to like

794
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 2: hold like nails in his teeth and like nail the

795
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 2: heel of the shoe with these little tiny nails and

796
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: just work and control the symptoms because there's something in

797
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: the brain that was overriding the symptoms. We have no

798
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 2: idea why. We just know that that was part of

799
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: this whole thing. There's some some way that the these

800
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 2: problematic symptoms can be overridden by some other region of

801
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 2: the brain taking importance or precedents over that, which is

802
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 2: just bizarre. Like from start to finish, this is one

803
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: of the most bizarre diseases in history.

804
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Did you also watch Tremors by accident?

805
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 2: Now? That would have been very pleasant. That's one of

806
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: my favorite movies.

807
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, the sun's coming up and you

808
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: still haven't seen awakenings. So getting back to the modern

809
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: perspectives and what we think medically these days. In the

810
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: last seventy five years, like I said, it completely in

811
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: a way, they kind of don't know. In the last

812
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 1: seventy five years, there has only been about eighty case

813
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: reports where it looks like it might be el They

814
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: call it like an eel like presentation, you know, the

815
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: hyper somnolence, maybe ocular paralysis, maybe some of those neuropsychiatric symptoms.

816
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 1: But they're really not sure because you know, the cases

817
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: are pretty varied, and the symptoms are pretty varied. And

818
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: again they you know, all they have is sort of

819
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: these case studies from before. They never landed on anything,

820
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: so it's hard to tell if this is still going

821
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: on at all or not. There's no like effective treatment.

822
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: You know, they still use al dopa I think, right, Yeah,

823
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: and that's still in the scene. Yeah, so for the

824
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: tremors and rigidity and stuff like that sometimes ect for

825
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: if you have like pretty extreme psychiatric symptoms. But for

826
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: Van Economo's work, he got he never won, but he

827
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 1: was nominated three times for a Nobel Prize.

828
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 3: Pretty good, yeah, for sure.

829
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 2: And remember he also originally suspected that it was some

830
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 2: sort of infection. Yeah, he thought Spanish flu wasn't Spanish flu.

831
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 2: But they do think that it's probable now that it

832
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 2: is the result of an autoimmune disorder triggered by an infection. Yeah.

833
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 2: So what that would amount to is that you are

834
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 2: infected by maybe it is tripped, maybe it is herpes,

835
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 2: maybe it is influenza. We don't know. But something that

836
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 2: resembles proteins found in different regions of your brain trains

837
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 2: your body to attack those proteins in your brain. So you,

838
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 2: it triggers an autoimmune disorder, and those proteins are only

839
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 2: found on specific regions of the brain that when you

840
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 2: step back and look at what those regions do, they

841
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 2: control the symptoms that you see in people with encephalitis lethargica.

842
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 2: I just sounded like Tim Curry and Rocky Horror Picture Show.

843
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 3: Get on the slab.

844
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 2: That's good. I forgot how good your impression is of

845
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 2: doctor Frankenfurter.

846
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 3: Oh, well, you know I met the man. He held

847
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 3: my cat.

848
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: That's right. He said your cat was naughty.

849
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 3: Right, I said he had dramatic ears.

850
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, but also naughty.

851
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, naughty. Get on the slab, laurn. I got

852
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 3: nothing else.

853
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 2: Oh okay, let's see. I guess I got nothing else either.

854
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 2: That's it. We don't we I don't know they answer

855
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 2: to all of this, and I don't know when we

856
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 2: ever will. But it's just it's so fascinating that you

857
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: have to stop and remind yourself like this actually happened

858
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 2: to people, and that do you realize how terrifying the

859
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: whole thing really is? Yeah, well, Chuck said yeah twice

860
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 2: within seven seconds, which automatically means, oh well, no, he

861
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: derailed it. You have to say yeah one more time,

862
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 2: hurry yeah, Okay, now we're back on to listener, ma'am.

863
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: Uh this is you're gonna like this one, Josh, I think, hey, guys,

864
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: it is about the A trax. I always learned something

865
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: from you sometimes unexpectedly, you guys and the A track

866
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: short stuff. You talked about kart being short for cartridge

867
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: and sparked a memory. I'm from Buffalo, you see, and

868
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: I used to listen to a radio announcer called Iron

869
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: Mike Benson. He famously had what he called and Jamie says,

870
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: sorry to you, specifically Josh about this, okay, where Mike

871
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: Iron Mike ben would say that he had the heinous

872
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: anus fart cart and he would use it to play

873
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: various part sounds and strategically place them over top of

874
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: the top of whatever song's happened to be getting played

875
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: on the air at the moment. Always imagine the word

876
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: kart at the time was referring to like a basket

877
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: on wheels that contained a bunch of separate tapes.

878
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, of fart.

879
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 3: Sounds, now it all makes sense.

880
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: It was a tape recording, but because it was a

881
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: looped tape with multiple tracks on it. He could cue

882
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: whatever selection he wanted much quicker than you could with

883
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: a linear cassette tape. So it was the analog way

884
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: to do that sort of thing before a digital soundboard

885
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: was used and invented. Thank you for all the useless interest,

886
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: grabbing information and uselessness in quotes, by the way, Okay,

887
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: that is only useless until you can relate it to

888
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: something else. Podcasts have come and gone, but your show

889
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: is the one I haven't gotten tired of.

890
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 3: And my sister Ashley agrees. Keep it up, boys. That

891
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 3: is Jamie Lynn Bayer awesome.

892
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jamie Lynn, and thank you to your sister Ashley,

893
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 2: who sensibly listens as well. And the whole Bear clan.

894
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: How about that?

895
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, the clan at the Cave Bear.

896
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 2: I thought that as well. Yeah, if you want to

897
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 2: be like the clan of the Cave Bear and write

898
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: in to let us know how much you like our

899
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: show and or we triggered some memory in you that

900
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: helped you put things together, and or whatever else you

901
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: want to say. We love that kind of thing. You

902
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 2: can send it to us via email at stuff podcast

903
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 2: at iHeartRadio dot com.

904
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,959
Speaker 3: Stuff You should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

905
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

906
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,760
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.