Speaker 1: What's riddled with gna rhea? My Sophie? How do I
Speaker 1: finish this? I don't want to know? Well, that is
Speaker 1: slightly applicable for today. Oh good, okay, Well, this is
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards the podcast with a slightly applicable introduction
Speaker 1: for the first time in quite a while. I'm Robert Evans,
Speaker 1: your host normally, but not today because today my buddy
Speaker 1: Garrison is here. Garrison has a very special story. I
Speaker 1: really don't know what to expect here. Should I start
Speaker 1: by giving the background? Um? Yeah, yeah. Ever since I've
Speaker 1: known Robert Roberts, Roberts had a dream. Um uh when yeah, Robert?
Speaker 1: What is so? For a little bit of background on me,
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time living in the middle
Speaker 1: of nowhere in the mountains, and I developed a love
Speaker 1: for cooking food in pits buried under the ground. You like,
Speaker 1: you wrap up a bunch of meat, like a turkey,
Speaker 1: stuffed with stuff, and you wrap it in the foil
Speaker 1: and you bury it and you build a fire around
Speaker 1: and you cook it over the course of like a
Speaker 1: day while you're drinking heavily. It's a great time way
Speaker 1: to like make a turkey. Um, I do it? Around
Speaker 1: the holidays a couple of times a year when I
Speaker 1: have the opportunity. And several years ago I had a
Speaker 1: dream and I saw a vision of a horse stuffed
Speaker 1: with eels and cooked underground in a pit fire. And
Speaker 1: I've never been able to get it out of my head.
Speaker 1: I am still working on. I was briefly in contact
Speaker 1: with someone who thought they could get me one last year,
Speaker 1: and I fucked that up because my mom got cancer
Speaker 1: and I wound up like, I don't know, just not
Speaker 1: being great at correspondence for a while. You sucked it up.
Speaker 1: If you're that person, hit me up again, because I
Speaker 1: still want the horse. But my dream is to get
Speaker 1: a horse that has been obviously gutted. Stuff it full
Speaker 1: of eels. Lamb prais are acceptable. That's a kind of eel.
Speaker 1: Any kind of eel will be fine. Um Stuff it
Speaker 1: full of eels. Wrap the fucker up in either foil
Speaker 1: or maybe even like banana leafs if we want to
Speaker 1: do it like really, you know, pro um or burlap
Speaker 1: or something, and then bury it, you know, a food
Speaker 1: not a foot underground, Like just bury it to where
Speaker 1: it's at like ground level, cover it in dirt, and
Speaker 1: keep a big circular fire going around it for probably
Speaker 1: like twenty hours. I'm guessing that's how seriously listeners could
Speaker 1: see Gary's faith right now, what is it? Oh sorry,
Speaker 1: my cameras on you. What does Garrison look like? Just
Speaker 1: an absolute smirk anyway, this has been my dream for
Speaker 1: some time. Yeah, you you constantly talk about it. It's
Speaker 1: it's all I want out of out of the world. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in that for me today, Garrison, well kind of we'll see,
Speaker 1: so a little taste of my own medicine. So yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: one night I was doing an extremely hardcore gaming session
Speaker 1: with with a friend of mine and for some reason,
Speaker 1: eel horse came up because just Robert talks about it
Speaker 1: all the time. So for some reason this idea of
Speaker 1: eel horse came up over the course of our very
Speaker 1: intense gaming session. Um and, so my friend had had
Speaker 1: the bravery to put the words eel and horse into
Speaker 1: Google um and and that led us down a pretty
Speaker 1: nightmaresh rabbit hole that I knew that I do had
Speaker 1: to become a bastard's episode, which leads us to now
Speaker 1: our our our discussion of the real life heel horse
Speaker 1: and and the eel wielding bastards of today. So I'm
Speaker 1: very excited. Yeah. So we're gonna start off by going
Speaker 1: way back to the late medieval period in England, good
Speaker 1: time and the bustling business of selling horses. So let's
Speaker 1: let's say you're an old timey horse salesman. You got
Speaker 1: yourself some horses that you want to sell. But the
Speaker 1: problem get sixteen apples to the league. Yeah, but the
Speaker 1: problem is that some of your horses are getting a
Speaker 1: bit old, you know, a little sluggish. They're not as
Speaker 1: lively as they used to be in their youth. That's
Speaker 1: what happens to horses already laughing, they know this is going.
Speaker 1: So you're thinking, like, what what could I do to
Speaker 1: make these horses a bit more spry and lively? And
Speaker 1: and then very similar to very similar to your vision. Um,
Speaker 1: what I'm guessing happen is like basically you're thinking what
Speaker 1: can I do? And then God comes down to you
Speaker 1: from the clouds and says, my, my child, My my
Speaker 1: horse salesman, child, have you considered putting a live eel
Speaker 1: up the horses butt? Oh my God? Yes? Wait what
Speaker 1: you reply to God? How how will that solve my problem?
Speaker 1: And then then God, in his divine wisdom speaks to
Speaker 1: you from the heavens and says, well, a live eel
Speaker 1: inserted up the horses anist might stimulate the horse and
Speaker 1: make it appear to be younger and in its more
Speaker 1: active years, thus fetching a higher price for your inactuality
Speaker 1: older horses. You are telling me, Garrison, that shoving a
Speaker 1: live eel up the ass of an aging horse was
Speaker 1: the old timy equivalent of like turning back the the
Speaker 1: odometer on a car. Oh yeah, baby, that fucking rules.
Speaker 1: So so upon comprehending your godly enlightenment, you you thank
Speaker 1: the Lord for gifting you a piece of his everlasting
Speaker 1: wisdom in your your divine vision. Oh Father in Heaven, I,
Speaker 1: your humble servant, am internally grateful for your You're you're
Speaker 1: blessing me with this prosperous inspiration. I'll go forth and
Speaker 1: place as many eels up the rect of elder horses,
Speaker 1: just as you say, and i shall spread this gospel
Speaker 1: of eel horse to the other horse sellers, so we
Speaker 1: may all share in your holy riches. And I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure that's how it went, because throughout the fifteen hundreds,
Speaker 1: possibly earlier, it's it's unclear when this started, but it
Speaker 1: definitely was. It was very popular throughout the fifteen hundreds
Speaker 1: and early eighteen hundreds. That's amazing. Yeah, so inswering live
Speaker 1: life yels up the back into horses, that the horses
Speaker 1: that were past their prime to make them appear more
Speaker 1: like frisky and young. Because that's the phrase that keeps
Speaker 1: coming up, is that when when when when? When they
Speaker 1: were looking to buy horses, a good sign of a
Speaker 1: horse was that it carries its tail well. Means the
Speaker 1: tail is like upright and like almost erect. Is that
Speaker 1: it's very fluffy. And the same people sure, well furries
Speaker 1: at least furries. Yeah, so and and and the eel
Speaker 1: thing very much. The phrase that they kept using was
Speaker 1: like putting the eel up helps keep the tail held
Speaker 1: well because because the horse I am, I'm just imagining
Speaker 1: generations of like marks buying women horses and like, god
Speaker 1: damn it, the eel this one too. That's that is
Speaker 1: exactly what happened. You gotta check the asshole, Mitch. I
Speaker 1: telled you that never buy a used horse without check
Speaker 1: in the asshole. So yeah, so yeah, in certain lit
Speaker 1: deals on the back ends of horses past their prime,
Speaker 1: was very common to make them appear more frisky and young,
Speaker 1: you know, and happen to eel. I mean, whatever eels
Speaker 1: were available in England. It's it's it's it's hard. It's
Speaker 1: hard to say because there's not extremely thrown documentation of this.
Speaker 1: Most of the documentation comes from comes from dictionaries and
Speaker 1: literary references. So you hear this like appearing in like
Speaker 1: poems and stories and be like describing what selling horses
Speaker 1: was like. Um and definitely. So there's two kinds of
Speaker 1: eels in the UK, silver and conjure. It's not a
Speaker 1: conjure eel. Look up the conjure eel look decisive this thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not sure like the size of horses,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, no, it's not a conjural. It's
Speaker 1: not an alligator. That's that is that is discomfitingly large,
Speaker 1: that's set in how big that eel is? That that
Speaker 1: is generally pro eel, but that is toom Okay, it's
Speaker 1: probably a silver eel. Looks more manageable. So I'm guessing
Speaker 1: it's a silver eel. So yeah, you could fit one
Speaker 1: of those up a horses, ass, no problem. What happened
Speaker 1: right up an asshole, just say this was not what
Speaker 1: I thought was going to be happening today. I couldn't
Speaker 1: I couldn't be happier. So so yeah, Often what what
Speaker 1: happened would be when when people would come into the
Speaker 1: show room to see the horses like this table, boys
Speaker 1: would be like would shove the eels up there really quickly.
Speaker 1: Green people were coming to visit. Um sou so there
Speaker 1: is there is, there is a word for this. The
Speaker 1: process was called feeding or to feed a horse. Um
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. We find we find reference to this process
Speaker 1: in in the excellent Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue. Um.
Speaker 1: There in a few copies of this have have feging.
Speaker 1: I'm going to read from one from it says, to
Speaker 1: feed is to put a live eel up the horses fundament,
Speaker 1: to make him lively and carry his tail. Well. Um.
Speaker 1: The author goes on to note that the practice was
Speaker 1: so widespread that quote it is it is said a
Speaker 1: forfeit is incurred by any horse dealer's servant who shall
Speaker 1: shoot a horse without feeding him first. So pretty good,
Speaker 1: pretty good stuff. Credible. Um. Okay, you know I make
Speaker 1: a lot of jokes about the war against the horses.
Speaker 1: But like it's hard to name an animal that's taken
Speaker 1: more hits for the team, the team being humanity than
Speaker 1: the horse. Like the horse we have we have fucked
Speaker 1: them over for so Like dogs were like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: want to be best friends and like hunt together and
Speaker 1: hang out and we'll give you food. With horses are
Speaker 1: like you know what machine guns are here about to
Speaker 1: learn it's your job to run towards them. Yeah, horses,
Speaker 1: horses have taken decent, decent amount of abuse. Um, we've
Speaker 1: really uh yeah, I didn't know that this had happened,
Speaker 1: but yeah, speaking What's what's really fun is that you
Speaker 1: can find a good number of references to this phenomenon
Speaker 1: in literary writing from the time um. In sixteen sixteen,
Speaker 1: there was a book of poems published by the then
Speaker 1: late poet Thomas Overbury and included an array of poetic
Speaker 1: character character sketches of like unsavory types of people written
Speaker 1: by various anonymous authors. On one of these poems, excellent
Speaker 1: details the character. One of these poems details the characteristics
Speaker 1: of an uh an errand horse courser Um and noted that,
Speaker 1: among other unsavory habits, the man knows how to cover
Speaker 1: up diseases and defects of all sorts. For pounding his
Speaker 1: horses ars with quicksilver and giving him suppositories of live eels.
Speaker 1: He's an expert, pretty, referring to putting a live eel
Speaker 1: up an ass as a suppository, suppository of live els. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that is incredible. That is amazing, he Harrison. I'm
Speaker 1: very proud of you. He is expert expert at an
Speaker 1: errand horse courser. Oh man, um man, maybe this is
Speaker 1: how I prepare the eel horse, starting at while the
Speaker 1: horse was alive. No, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: do that. You realize that they're supposed to be bad guys,
Speaker 1: right like the like they're the use they're literally the
Speaker 1: used cars salesman of the medieval period. Yes, and they're
Speaker 1: shoving sho come down to Slick Joe's Discounter horse depot.
Speaker 1: Absolutely no wheels up their assholes. A young John Milton
Speaker 1: mentioned figging in incredible in a sixteen Latin poem while
Speaker 1: mocking his fellow Cambridge students. Um He described a certain
Speaker 1: Irish bird as quote more useful to grooms because they're
Speaker 1: by nature lively and brisk and prancing and if they
Speaker 1: were forced into the anus of a scriggly horse, they
Speaker 1: would make them livelier and quicker than had ten than
Speaker 1: if they had ten live wheels of their bellies. Wow, Garrison,
Speaker 1: I want to congratulate you here because for years, Sophie
Speaker 1: will back me up on this. I have been trying
Speaker 1: to work in paradise. Lost connections to behind the bastards
Speaker 1: hasn't happened yet. We just don't go far back enough.
Speaker 1: But you finally brought old J. Milt into it and
Speaker 1: roll the West of sixteen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: everyone says the Humors. The humors poet Edward Award in
Speaker 1: his seventeen hundred uh a Song upon Dancing, wrote that
Speaker 1: dancers skip with a nimble force as eels as the
Speaker 1: belly of a horse, which jockeys use each each market
Speaker 1: day to make him dance. As people say, So that's nice. Um, actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: he had. He had a decent little thing going. So yeah.
Speaker 1: Unfortunate or unfortunately depending on the perspective. But by the
Speaker 1: late seventeen hundreds and early eighteen hundreds, the eel anal
Speaker 1: insertion had begun to fall out of fashion. Um as
Speaker 1: horse salesman realized probably again via divine revelation from the Lord,
Speaker 1: that the same effect, or at least a similar effect,
Speaker 1: could be achieved by instead inserting a piece of spicy
Speaker 1: ginger up the horses urs um. And this is apparently
Speaker 1: still an issue at horse shows that people have to
Speaker 1: like enforce stop people from shoving ginger ginger up the
Speaker 1: butt of horses to make Yeah, this is still like
Speaker 1: an ongoing problem that needs like enforcement of bus shows. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the ginger police. Yeah. But that means though, if you
Speaker 1: if you went back to shoven eels up their asses,
Speaker 1: nobody would catch it. They're not still checking for eel.
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you, if you want to cheat at
Speaker 1: having nice horses eels, that's wide open, baby. Yeah, try
Speaker 1: an electric one. Maybe that's how I'll cook it, Garrison,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Okay, well we'll talk about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but we we still do actually have the the modern
Speaker 1: phrase to ginger up or do we spice upper horse?
Speaker 1: This comes from feging. I've never heard of that phrase,
Speaker 1: but I'll trust you it's it's it's it's it's a phrase.
Speaker 1: Um and and this is this is also where we
Speaker 1: get to the modern B D S M practice called
Speaker 1: figging again driving from the feeding where but but figging
Speaker 1: is usually a butt plug made of ginger placed up
Speaker 1: someone sanis um and this this we will circle back
Speaker 1: to this at the end, um, because this will help
Speaker 1: us explain a modern modern eel issue we have. Um. Yes,
Speaker 1: modern eel issues are very serious. Yeah, speaking of eel shoes.
Speaker 1: Eel shoes speak. Speaking of eel shoes. Uh, do you
Speaker 1: know who else wants you to buy live eels to
Speaker 1: stick up the butts of horses? Oh gosh, I mean
Speaker 1: jesus um our friends at Uh, I don't know one
Speaker 1: of the food we call it. We call it stimulations. Yeah,
Speaker 1: stimulations people who make those fucking uh those uh those
Speaker 1: with with with uh all of ours, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: obviously they are all huge fans of cheven eels and assholes.
Speaker 1: In fact, that's the only requirement we have of our sponsors.
Speaker 1: Have you put an eel in some things, but doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be a horse, and in fact, oftentimes it's
Speaker 1: a completely different species. Um. We like it when they
Speaker 1: get created of and that's the behind the bastards guarantee
Speaker 1: We're back all right, Garrison, I'm I'm ready so so yeah,
Speaker 1: so the first bastards of today are the fourteen through
Speaker 1: seventeenth century horse salesman. Um. But unfortunate, unfortunately, we still
Speaker 1: have some time left in this episode. As you can tell, um,
Speaker 1: and and and once me and my friends started googling
Speaker 1: eel and anus, this let us down a dark rabbit
Speaker 1: hole that forever scared my mind. Um, yeah, I can
Speaker 1: see how that would go to some bad places. Actually, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: we're going to be briefly moving away from horses and
Speaker 1: towards another h species called humans, which which which which
Speaker 1: leads us to probably the darkest, most evil segment today's episode,
Speaker 1: The Phoenix Program. Oh, that sounds like a good thing
Speaker 1: to be involved in assholes being filled with. So the
Speaker 1: Phoenix Program was the rutal counterinsurgency program started in nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty eight and run by William Colby later ahead of
Speaker 1: the CIA. It was aimed at reading out Viet Cong
Speaker 1: or anyone deemed Vietcong sympathizers. The Viet Cong was anybody
Speaker 1: that we happened to bomb. Um. Yeah, so weading out
Speaker 1: anyone deemed Vietcong sympathizers by identification and neutralization. Uh. With
Speaker 1: with the with the methodology of infiltration, capture, terrorism, torture,
Speaker 1: and assassination. The Phoenix program was designed, coordinated, and executed
Speaker 1: primarily by the CIA, with some help by the United
Speaker 1: States Special Operations Forces during the war in Vietnam. Versions
Speaker 1: of the program we're kind of an operation between sixty
Speaker 1: between nineteen sixty five and nineteen sixty and nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 1: But but the official program and an official body count
Speaker 1: begun in sixty eight UM, and similar programs existed both
Speaker 1: before and after that period. UM. But you know, for
Speaker 1: the official Phoenix program, it starts and starts in eight
Speaker 1: goes to seventy two UM. By two Phoenix operatives had
Speaker 1: to quote unquote neutralized at least any one thousand and
Speaker 1: six d forty people UM suspected of being operatives or
Speaker 1: sympathizers of the Vietcong UM, at least twenty six thousand,
Speaker 1: of whom were officially killed, but South Vietnamese officials estimate
Speaker 1: over forty thousand were killed. UM Military intelligence officer K.
Speaker 1: Milton Osborne witnessed the wrote a book about his time there,
Speaker 1: and witnessed the following forms of torture UM, including the
Speaker 1: use of of inserting a six inch dowel into the
Speaker 1: cavity of a detainees ears and tapping, tapping the dowel
Speaker 1: through the brain until the person dies. Uh, a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of starvation to death inside a cage
Speaker 1: um and other and I'm going to read a quote now.
Speaker 1: Other methods of torture used in the interrogation centers include rape,
Speaker 1: gang rape, rape using hard objects, rape followed by murder,
Speaker 1: electric shock by attaching wires to the genitals, and rape
Speaker 1: using eels and snakes. Um, so this is this is
Speaker 1: like the most fucking evil humanity can do. Like the
Speaker 1: Phoenix program is like is like up there and like
Speaker 1: the most like evil. No, yeah, it's that's on the
Speaker 1: same level. It's like the most bastard you can be.
Speaker 1: Like all like the horrific abuses done in the Phoenix
Speaker 1: program by the American government. And there was there was
Speaker 1: assistance from the South Vietnamians government, assistance from Australia, but
Speaker 1: it was mostly the American government. Um it is it
Speaker 1: is like the most possibly evil thing if you like
Speaker 1: about the Phoenix program in detail. That's the highest it. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll do a we'll do a whole thing. No, yeah,
Speaker 1: they deserve their own like Series one there after the
Speaker 1: nine part Kissinger series, like William Colby and the CIA
Speaker 1: in the Vietnam War. It's that they're like, it's extremely,
Speaker 1: extremely fucking nightmare. I mean it's like it's like people
Speaker 1: talk rightly about um u UM, which was a Japanese
Speaker 1: military detachment that did like biological and chemical warfare research
Speaker 1: that involved some of the worst stories of like torture,
Speaker 1: um and experiment like like and like Dr Mangela, And
Speaker 1: we talk about these as if like these are unique
Speaker 1: horrors of like fascist countries. Um. I guess you could
Speaker 1: say they're unique cars of fascist countries because certainly, within
Speaker 1: the context of our policies in Vietnam, the United States
Speaker 1: was doing some fashion as hell ship. Um. But like
Speaker 1: the ship that US that the CIA pulled in Vietnam,
Speaker 1: is that same level, like that exact same level. It
Speaker 1: is not. It is not devaluing the horrors of the
Speaker 1: Holocaust or of the Japanese war crimes in Manchuria to
Speaker 1: put this kind of ship. I mean, they're raping people
Speaker 1: with eels until they die, until raping people to death
Speaker 1: with eels, Like what what do you? Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: I was aware of this sort of thing mainly with
Speaker 1: snakes and stuff. But yeah, out after some of the
Speaker 1: details of the abuses like this less than the Horse, No, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is this is this is definitely less fun. So
Speaker 1: after some of the details of the horrific abuses by
Speaker 1: the CIA and Army that was carried on in Vietnam,
Speaker 1: as they slowly came to light in the early seventies,
Speaker 1: the program was officially shut down under public pressure, but
Speaker 1: in actuality it just it just continued under a different
Speaker 1: name um. And some of the control of the program
Speaker 1: was handed to the South Vietnam government. UM. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of hard to pivot away from something
Speaker 1: that's dark, UM. But I'm going to think of it
Speaker 1: as a way to help kind of wash down the
Speaker 1: human filth that we just discussed. UM. Because because now
Speaker 1: we we are gonna we are going to discuss the
Speaker 1: the modern eel anus problem. UM. And now this this
Speaker 1: is I'm glad we're getting We're getting up to the
Speaker 1: modern day exiting. So this this is, this is a
Speaker 1: thing with multiple facets, um, and a sizeable portion of
Speaker 1: which is an extension of the figging figging connection. And Christ, well, good,
Speaker 1: actually this is good. I would of that, it goes
Speaker 1: back to the horses. Yeah, so thank god. April in
Speaker 1: the Guangdong Province of China, a destructively horny, a single,
Speaker 1: thirty nine year old man was watching cat was watching
Speaker 1: Everything's Coming together for this story, was watching an eel
Speaker 1: figging porn, and he had the uncontrollable urge to try
Speaker 1: it himself. Wait, wait, watching he was watching an eel
Speaker 1: thinking porn. So but here's this, I think you said
Speaker 1: eighteen thirteen. No, this is two us and thirteen two
Speaker 1: thirteen miss heard watching porn. Okay, yeah to us and thirteen.
Speaker 1: Horribly horny old man was watching an eel thinking porn,
Speaker 1: and he the uncontrollable to try himself. I see fin
Speaker 1: researching this episode, I've seen about every video of eel's
Speaker 1: going into bodies on the internet. Yeah, okay, it's a watch.
Speaker 1: We should watch Zoo together, Garrison. Um. Anyway, so he
Speaker 1: tried himself, and he tried to just he tried to grab.
Speaker 1: He tried to keep holding the eel for the duration
Speaker 1: of the of the period, but he lost probably a
Speaker 1: good idea, but he lost grip of the slippery little fucker.
Speaker 1: See that's that's that's rookie ship. You gotta get you
Speaker 1: gotta get a get a get a get a like
Speaker 1: rope around that and it's it swam all the way
Speaker 1: up there, and that's gonna happen. After fail attempts to
Speaker 1: remove the eel, the man went to the emergency room
Speaker 1: for medical assistance. Um, and he told the presumably confused medics,
Speaker 1: please please help me. The eel is moving through my body. UM.
Speaker 1: Imagine that's just your fucking day, right, Like you're six
Speaker 1: hours into a shift, you're getting ready to go home,
Speaker 1: you're tired, you've already seen some ship. And the kid's like,
Speaker 1: there's an eel moving inside of me for undetermined reasons,
Speaker 1: and like that's the rest of your fucking night. Yep. So,
Speaker 1: the twitter centimeter long eel tuted the way through the
Speaker 1: man's colon, up perforated his large intestine, and became stuck
Speaker 1: in the body cavity. The medical team that treated the
Speaker 1: man reportedly said to the eel, which we made about
Speaker 1: a pound, was quote simply trying to find its way out,
Speaker 1: and their fair play by the eel anything, None of
Speaker 1: the none of the things we're talking about today is
Speaker 1: the eel's fault. None of these. None of what we're
Speaker 1: talking about today is to say that nothing has ever
Speaker 1: been in eel's fault because their eel. No, it is
Speaker 1: this is just on us, totally on us. UM. The
Speaker 1: medical team said the eel was still alive when we
Speaker 1: got it out, but it died soon afterwards, which was
Speaker 1: probably a mercy. So yeah, I have I have read,
Speaker 1: um every single story of eel's going up people's butts
Speaker 1: such you can find on the internet. UM, and a
Speaker 1: decent amount of these instants track I think the decent
Speaker 1: amount of them do track back to getting the idea
Speaker 1: from porn um. But but that is far from the
Speaker 1: only cause of eel anal penetration, because that would be unreasonable. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So three years prior back in a fifty nine year
Speaker 1: old chef from the z from the Zegong city of
Speaker 1: China went to the hospital complaining of abdominable pain, dehydration,
Speaker 1: and a great deal of anal bleeding and he truly
Speaker 1: did not know what was going on. He actually had
Speaker 1: no idea. UM. So doctors also had no idea what
Speaker 1: was the cause of this, and they resorted to cutting
Speaker 1: open his inerts, in which they discovered a fifty centimeter
Speaker 1: long Asian swamp eel lodged in his rectum. It was
Speaker 1: already it was already dead, but the eel had apparently
Speaker 1: already reaked havoc through the inside of his body, biting
Speaker 1: the way through his intestines prior to dying. Internal bleeding
Speaker 1: and infection rapidly set in. The man was hospital's large.
Speaker 1: So that's that's slightly too big to get in a
Speaker 1: horse's asshole. As a lot of it's there's so I've
Speaker 1: not included pictures in the script here, but basically every
Speaker 1: for every story from the Chinese hospitals, the Chinese hospitals
Speaker 1: popload all all of these pictures. It is kind of
Speaker 1: still it is absurd how many pictures of and like
Speaker 1: videos of these procedures they upload themselves, like entire videos
Speaker 1: of them surgically doing this. It's it's pretty, It's pretty.
Speaker 1: It's pretty night maerish. Um. So, yeah, the man was
Speaker 1: hospitalized for ten days, but he eventually died. Um. So
Speaker 1: this this, this, this, this did kill him. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: sounds about right. Again, we should watch Zoo afterwards. The
Speaker 1: probable cause was actually established, so the chef had been
Speaker 1: drinking with friends and he had passed out his his
Speaker 1: friends that decided it would be and they decided it
Speaker 1: would be amusing prank to insert a live eel up
Speaker 1: his anist while he was comatosed, and not to tell him.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I mean, look, I've done some things
Speaker 1: I would regret while drinking, but I have always informed
Speaker 1: people when I've put a live eel inside them. That's
Speaker 1: we have. We have a friend who falls asleep often
Speaker 1: while watching movies, and we sometimes we still messed with them.
Speaker 1: But I think things on their head all sorts of
Speaker 1: But I think I think this is too far. Honestly,
Speaker 1: would they would say killing them via an eel eating
Speaker 1: their internal organs is taking I think it's too much.
Speaker 1: I think it's too much. I'm I'm all for committing
Speaker 1: to the bit, but honestly, I think this is too far.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's too much. You know what, you
Speaker 1: know where I think they went wrong is when they
Speaker 1: were shoving a live animal up their friends asshole as
Speaker 1: the person was asleep. Yeah, I think maybe that was
Speaker 1: I think that was an issue. Yeah, So this is
Speaker 1: one of the few instances that is like totally not
Speaker 1: this person's fault. Um and his his his friends. I
Speaker 1: think we're we're investigated and prosecuted by by whatever authorities anyway. Um.
Speaker 1: But before we get to like the big kicker, Um,
Speaker 1: there is some other general kind of eel news worth
Speaker 1: mentioning um to us. In twelve AMN in New Zealand,
Speaker 1: gun neil removed via surgery after the slippery fucker got
Speaker 1: stuck up as rectum. It wasn't officially revealed how or
Speaker 1: why it got up there, so that is that is
Speaker 1: left to us to aside. Um. But the unique aspect
Speaker 1: of this story is that thirty three hospital staff all
Speaker 1: got in trouble for sharing X ray photos of the
Speaker 1: eel and licking the story to the media. Um. Because interesting,
Speaker 1: because that's kind of shitty. It's it's it's totally it's
Speaker 1: it's totally different. In China and China they also gets uploaded. Um.
Speaker 1: But in New Zealand, the hospital got mad that the
Speaker 1: employees were leaking pictures of this incident. Um, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: kind of mean. The next person who gets an eel
Speaker 1: stuck up their asshole and go to the doctor to
Speaker 1: see that is the thing which although I will say,
Speaker 1: if you're the kind of person who tortures a live
Speaker 1: animal to get off. I don't really care if you
Speaker 1: get medical treatment. Yeah, not really. Um. Oh and into
Speaker 1: US In fourteen, a Brazilian man had emergency surgery to
Speaker 1: remove an eel from his backside. Again, the the exact
Speaker 1: reasoning it being unknown, but I'm pretty sure about these
Speaker 1: incidents are related to kink stuff. UM. And we're gonna
Speaker 1: we're gonna discuss this more towards the and because there
Speaker 1: is there is one other reason people people claim for
Speaker 1: for once they go to the doctor, how they explain
Speaker 1: why an eel is up there butt? So on on
Speaker 1: onto the main eel an epidemic. So this this starts
Speaker 1: in two US three, actually is the first instance I
Speaker 1: can find this UM specifically in like in like our
Speaker 1: our modern documentation. UM. I'm going to read directly from
Speaker 1: the hospital report. Now this this is somewhere in China.
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure what where, because the report doesn't
Speaker 1: specify exactly UM. And there there isn't any other reporting
Speaker 1: of this incident besides this one hospital report. So it's
Speaker 1: just it's just this hospital report anyway. UM. Fifty year
Speaker 1: old man was seeing at the Excident and Emergency department
Speaker 1: because of abdominable pain. The physical examination revealed redness and
Speaker 1: swelling around the tissue around the abdomen. A shadow of
Speaker 1: an eel was noticed on the ubdominable radiograph. Upon further questioning,
Speaker 1: the patient admitted that and eo is insterted into the
Speaker 1: rectum in an attempt to relieve constipation. I mean on
Speaker 1: a moral level, that's I guess better than putting an
Speaker 1: el up r ask for sexual gratification. Why would you
Speaker 1: think if it's true? Um? Anyway, UM emergency laparotomy found
Speaker 1: that the fifty centimeter long eel was biting the splenic
Speaker 1: flexure of the colon. Multiple perforations were found around the
Speaker 1: walls of the rectum, and the post operative, of course,
Speaker 1: was uneventful. That the patient patient was discharged from onto
Speaker 1: home on like day seven. So this appears to be
Speaker 1: the most claimed reason given by people found who have
Speaker 1: an eel up there? Butt on on why said eel
Speaker 1: is up there? Butt uh? They they most often claim
Speaker 1: constant pation um. And there has been an a decent
Speaker 1: uptick in reported incidents of eel up the anus uh
Speaker 1: to cure constellation since twenty seventeen. UM. In April April seventeen,
Speaker 1: forty nine year old factory worker from the capital of
Speaker 1: South China's Going Dong province was rushed to the hospital
Speaker 1: complaining of constipation and a stomach ache. Um. Upon the
Speaker 1: doctor's opening up the man's stomach to discover both feces
Speaker 1: and a foot and a half long eel, the man claimed,
Speaker 1: it's swim up. The man claimed it's time up there
Speaker 1: by itself. Okay, so I'm gonna I got a couple
Speaker 1: of notes. Um. He suffered. He suffered from a puncture,
Speaker 1: pancreas um and uh. According to the doctors, the eel
Speaker 1: managed to break through the man's intestines and generated a
Speaker 1: mess in the man's stomach, almost killing him. Yeah so
Speaker 1: the man later, according to the doctors. The man later
Speaker 1: gave more details post operation, quoting said doctors, but he
Speaker 1: later admitted that he put he put it up there himself,
Speaker 1: following a quote folk remedy for bowel obstruction, as a
Speaker 1: medical expert of the doctor noted that there was no
Speaker 1: scientific basis for such a treatment involving live eels. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I okay, so do you know how to cancel an
Speaker 1: Amazon order? Because I just had I was just just
Speaker 1: trying to rush a shipment of eels to my house.
Speaker 1: But I guess I don't need them. Now, you can cancel.
Speaker 1: You go to the order's page. Usually there we go. Yeah. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: the man survived this. It was unclear what happened to
Speaker 1: the eel, so probably not not a great story. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: would you want to live after that? Though? No? No? Um?
Speaker 1: So apparently what happened Upon further interviewing uh the he
Speaker 1: said that he went to his friends for medical advice
Speaker 1: and they told him about a quote folklore method of
Speaker 1: curing constipation which involved a live eel to help smooth
Speaker 1: bowel movement. So he found he found a Asian swamp
Speaker 1: ill and after the deed had been done, he had
Speaker 1: he got him into the hospital if he started experiencing
Speaker 1: unbearable stomach aches. So and what what's what's really upsetting that?
Speaker 1: This is by knowing me the an isolated incident. Next
Speaker 1: next time we're talking about is September. Again, reading from
Speaker 1: a hospital report, calonic perforation is a common presentation at
Speaker 1: the urgency department. However, foreign body related perforation is responsible
Speaker 1: for less than one percent of these cases. Here we
Speaker 1: describe the case of calonic perforation secondary to the self
Speaker 1: introduction of an eel into the anus. A fifty four
Speaker 1: year old, previously healthy email presented himself to the emergency
Speaker 1: department with a twelve hour history of abdominable pain. Physical
Speaker 1: examination revealed tenderness, rebound tenderness, and involuntary guarding. A CT
Speaker 1: scan of this abdomen and pelvis revealed a foreign body
Speaker 1: in his cavity. Upon further questioning, the patient admitted the
Speaker 1: eo was inserted into his anus by accident. Well, yeah, okay, look,
Speaker 1: we've all put some things up our assholes by accident,
Speaker 1: by accident, by accidents, not living un accident of the
Speaker 1: Monopoly board game, of course, pieces of firearms, absolutely, accident knives, Yes,
Speaker 1: it happens, but not a live animal. That's all. That's
Speaker 1: that was the entire It was an accident. There was
Speaker 1: no clarification. That's it. So he underwent He underwent a
Speaker 1: laparotomy UM and the eel was subsequently removed. He was
Speaker 1: transferred to the standard ward from the emergency ward after
Speaker 1: seven days of observation UM diagnostic. The diagnosing a calonic
Speaker 1: forim body can be challenging, as patients often deny the insertion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: at is recommended. I wouldn't want to admit to that.
Speaker 1: Ct S GET is recommended for patients having a suspected
Speaker 1: calonic foreign body, so that that that's a hospital port um.
Speaker 1: But this, it's this, uh you know, you know, you
Speaker 1: know what else you want to deny the presence of
Speaker 1: Robert Washington State Patrol at black black Rifle coffee at
Speaker 1: chevron ads? Wait what is it? Chevron? I hope it's Chevron.
Speaker 1: I love Chevron. Get some chev chev ads are Our
Speaker 1: next season of podcasts is going to be entirely supported
Speaker 1: by Chevron Chevron fuck it? Why not? And we're back
Speaker 1: um yep talking about eels still still wow, I watched
Speaker 1: eels up inside. You spent so long on this episode
Speaker 1: doing recently mighty boosh anybody too much time I spent
Speaker 1: I spent too much time researching this um Anyway. January,
Speaker 1: there was another similar incident, but but with a fun twist.
Speaker 1: Instead of boofing the eels, a fifty one year old
Speaker 1: construction worker in East China's Going Sup Province swallowed two
Speaker 1: live eels to reportedly treat his constipation. Well, I guess
Speaker 1: that's better. It's different it's not better. It's differently. What
Speaker 1: I'll say is better is it's there's no question that
Speaker 1: it wasn't a sex thing. That is that is probably
Speaker 1: this is one of the instances that it probably wasn't
Speaker 1: a sex thing because because again I think part of
Speaker 1: the problem here is once this constipation myth got started
Speaker 1: or like got started, people are gonna hear about it,
Speaker 1: and then you know, people might start actually doing it,
Speaker 1: genuine stupid people. People might start doing it genuine Yeah,
Speaker 1: so people take Joe Rogan's advice on how to treat diseases.
Speaker 1: They're very stupid. So yeah, he was rushing to the
Speaker 1: hospital by his colleagues where it was where he revealed
Speaker 1: that he consumed the eels the day before. During surgery,
Speaker 1: they found they found a quote, very thick eels lodged
Speaker 1: outside of the intestines in the lower part of his abdomen.
Speaker 1: Because the coding the doctor, because the eels were alive
Speaker 1: while being swallowed. A person's intestines are fragile, Therefore they
Speaker 1: will be ruptured as soon as the eels bite them,
Speaker 1: said the doctor. Really amazing, So our intestines are not
Speaker 1: We did not evolve to have our intestines bitten by eels.
Speaker 1: This is shocking to They found a two centimeter wide
Speaker 1: hole in the sigmoid colon. Medics said he was in
Speaker 1: a state of shock due to life threatening bacterial infection
Speaker 1: around the ruptured colon. He was left in critical condition.
Speaker 1: The one year old man was allegedly following a filk
Speaker 1: remedy and which claims that gobbling live eels could help
Speaker 1: pass a solid waste. According to the surgeon, um yes
Speaker 1: yeah great. Based June and unnamed patient aged in his fifties,
Speaker 1: medical attention again in China's southern province of Going Dong,
Speaker 1: after suffering uh pain in his abdomen for about a week,
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, God, Good God in heaven Ah. By this
Speaker 1: time he had severe sepsis leading to septic shock and
Speaker 1: it was unable to communicate. It was unable to communicate coherently,
Speaker 1: according to the surgeon, shocking very surprised again, quoting said
Speaker 1: surgeon could have anticipated this ring a ct SC and
Speaker 1: we suspected a foreign body in his abdominal garrison abdominal cavity,
Speaker 1: but we couldn't tell what it was. Then while performing
Speaker 1: a colonoscopy, we discovered it was a nation swamp field
Speaker 1: that entered the kay that entered the cavity um. The
Speaker 1: patient then had an emergency operation to have the eel
Speaker 1: removed from his gut, with doctors opening up his abdomen
Speaker 1: and discovering it filled with waste matter, including excrement and
Speaker 1: puss from his severe infection. The hospital image shows the
Speaker 1: again not included in the document for Sophie's sake, a
Speaker 1: fifteen inch freshwater eel removed intact in the procedure. I
Speaker 1: can send you pictures afterwards, Robert, please, I have a
Speaker 1: lot sounds. This is how it starts, Robert, this is
Speaker 1: how it starts. I'm now eel curious. No, no, you're
Speaker 1: not stop it. You can, like, you can buy things
Speaker 1: that do the same thing. You can you can buy
Speaker 1: things that are not live eels to do the same thing.
Speaker 1: You can get robotic stuff that does the same exact thing.
Speaker 1: You could also get an ovipositor. If you really that
Speaker 1: that is that is that's completely different. Are I just
Speaker 1: object to you doing this comparison? Those are those are?
Speaker 1: Those are those are classy? Okay? I think they're neat
Speaker 1: alright anyway. Um, according the doctor, the eel is already
Speaker 1: dead when it caused to feel bacterial um contamination in
Speaker 1: his adamant due to build up of feces and pus um.
Speaker 1: It was only it was it was only after surgery.
Speaker 1: It was only after surgery when we are inquiring after
Speaker 1: his medical and inquiring about his medical history, that he
Speaker 1: told us he used the eel to cure his constipation.
Speaker 1: He inserted it up his anus into his rectum. I
Speaker 1: suspect it was then that the perforation of his signaled
Speaker 1: call it occurred. I also suspect that that is also
Speaker 1: my my guess is that it occurred afterwards. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds right. Because he had inserted the live hel
Speaker 1: into himself. The chances of him dying were quite high
Speaker 1: had he not had the surgery and time again including
Speaker 1: the doctor um. The doctor said that the constipation cure
Speaker 1: folk remedy thing. Uh is uh. He worened members of
Speaker 1: the public against doing this um for some reason. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the patient got discharged days later and then allegedly
Speaker 1: purchased the common freshwater eel from a wet market. According
Speaker 1: to the hospital, So we got we got one more
Speaker 1: what one more? A man again in the going to
Speaker 1: province of East China insert long eel into his direct
Speaker 1: him on July allegedly in hopes of relieving constipation, but
Speaker 1: instead it almost took his life after the eel entered
Speaker 1: his abdomen. He finally went to the doctor after enduring
Speaker 1: pain on the first day as he was, but on
Speaker 1: the first day he he didn't go. Uh he basically
Speaker 1: he didn't go on the first day, but one in
Speaker 1: the second day because he was too shy to see
Speaker 1: a doctor. Yeah, well, okay, to have to explain this
Speaker 1: to the dock um that keeps being an issue in these,
Speaker 1: This is an issue in these, I would say the
Speaker 1: primary issue is putting into Yeah, okay, the doctor who
Speaker 1: did the operation so that he could have lost his
Speaker 1: life as the bacteria and the large intestine may have
Speaker 1: caused humulosis when it reached the abdominable at Jesus Christ
Speaker 1: abdominal cabin. There we go, There we go. You did it.
Speaker 1: According to Chinese news outlet Global Times, what motivvated of
Speaker 1: the man to do so was a folk remedy that
Speaker 1: says the eel can help with bowel movement, but instead
Speaker 1: of caring the constipation, the eel went inside the men's
Speaker 1: rectum to the colon and bit through it, entering from
Speaker 1: the from the colon into the abdomen um. The deal
Speaker 1: was still alive by the time it was removed during
Speaker 1: operation for the eel. I hope, I hope it's lived
Speaker 1: a full life. So this is where things are going
Speaker 1: to kind of tie back to the two eel horse,
Speaker 1: because I think I was waiting for that. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of these incidents are in fact not due
Speaker 1: to constipation, and our people just using that as an excuse.
Speaker 1: They don't have to they don't have to admit the
Speaker 1: slightly more embarrassing reasoning that being that they thought it
Speaker 1: was hot because I remember only the only the first
Speaker 1: guy you mentioned actually admitted it to being a kink
Speaker 1: thing back in But ever since the first story in
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen of a guy claiming its constipation, everyone is
Speaker 1: using this reason now. Um. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot of these incidents are actually actually also
Speaker 1: kink stuff. Um. So back to the figging again rise
Speaker 1: derived from figging with the horse. Um. With with with
Speaker 1: the rise of internet and porn, uh, I think you
Speaker 1: know this stuff has been getting more popular and and
Speaker 1: and and once and once the once the ginger figguring
Speaker 1: isn't exciting you anymore. You know what you're gonna do that.
Speaker 1: That's that's right, baby, return to tradition and use the
Speaker 1: original horse speaking tool, the live eel. And that's what's that.
Speaker 1: That's that's what. That's what's going on. So I talked
Speaker 1: to our doctor French Kava, who specializes in colin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he specializes in like colin, the exact doctor to deal
Speaker 1: with this. So I talked, I talked about this um
Speaker 1: and he said he said he's heard of this caitatient
Speaker 1: excuse before, but he too and he and his and
Speaker 1: his colleagues are skeptical and think that the conservation excuse
Speaker 1: is actually bullshit. Sure, he he told me that people
Speaker 1: get pretty creative when they start coming up with excuses
Speaker 1: for things they put in their rectum, like he gave.
Speaker 1: He gave examples as I was doing pull ups over
Speaker 1: a shampoo bottle, or I had an itch, as you know,
Speaker 1: reasons people bullshit for why they find weird things up there.
Speaker 1: But um Sokva says that this is this is probably
Speaker 1: probably a sex thing, and he doesn't he he could
Speaker 1: not find any basis for this folk remedy. Like he
Speaker 1: he cannot like see where this idea actually comes from.
Speaker 1: He talked to like to like Chinese doctor of friends
Speaker 1: of his and like like you know, like this isn't
Speaker 1: a thing, Like we don't know where this this isn't
Speaker 1: actually a thing. Um and like from my cursory examination, um,
Speaker 1: eel and more broadly, like tentacle stuff is generally more
Speaker 1: popular in Asia and Japan and China than is in
Speaker 1: this states. Generally, UM, I mean it's there is definitely
Speaker 1: its own thing here, but a lot of that also
Speaker 1: does come from anime. Most of most of the tentacle
Speaker 1: stuff is is around anime. UM and so I also,
Speaker 1: I'll talk with our friend Chris about this, and and
Speaker 1: and and we surmised that the reason why this may
Speaker 1: be way more common in the Guangdong and Eastern Chinese
Speaker 1: provinces is because those two areas produce an absurd amount
Speaker 1: of the world's eel exports um. And then the amount
Speaker 1: of el exports have been rapidly increasing over the past
Speaker 1: twenty years, which means the people in those provinces have
Speaker 1: eels just around like way and like they're they're way
Speaker 1: more common and way more easily accessible than anywhere else
Speaker 1: in the world. Basically, so like you can actually a
Speaker 1: lot cheaper than whatever eel based sex toys you're about
Speaker 1: to suggest, Garrison being absolutely thinking people a lot of
Speaker 1: pay money when there's free eels lying around to get
Speaker 1: get off with, because like, because the other thing is,
Speaker 1: it's like I've I've tried to really find all references
Speaker 1: to like this oak remedy folklore method of current constipation,
Speaker 1: and it only tracks back to this to one article
Speaker 1: um and anything before that, like and and the and
Speaker 1: the one to US and three incident as well. But
Speaker 1: but that's but that's it. There's no other there's really
Speaker 1: no other basis for their actually being a focal origin.
Speaker 1: So like if if if any, if any listeners are
Speaker 1: have a knowledge of this tracking back before two US
Speaker 1: and three, please please let me know, because I've tried looking.
Speaker 1: I've spent days, days, days looking for information about about
Speaker 1: eel anal constipation cures pre twenty pre to US and
Speaker 1: three and preen and it's it's just I can't find anything.
Speaker 1: Um so and and and doctors in China also agree
Speaker 1: with this assessment. I'm going to read this is one
Speaker 1: one final thing I'm gonna be looking at there. There
Speaker 1: is one study from from from China looking at the
Speaker 1: UH that the eel anus phenomenon. So they didn't they
Speaker 1: did an actual study on this because they kept being
Speaker 1: a problem um self. Introduction of an eel into the
Speaker 1: anist causing colonic perforation is uncommon, but when it occurs,
Speaker 1: the reason may be due to a biz our belief,
Speaker 1: an inadvert sexual behavior, or a criminal assault. The situation
Speaker 1: is more common in men about about four to one
Speaker 1: um and once a live eels inserted into the colon,
Speaker 1: it will bite through the wall of the colon, migrating
Speaker 1: into the abdom abdominal cavity through perforation, resulting in an
Speaker 1: accidental opportunistic human pathogen similar to the vibrio vole if
Speaker 1: Nicklas infection COOL. Diagnosing a clonic form body can be
Speaker 1: challenging because patients often deny the insertion. They may have
Speaker 1: obscure anal pain, mucous discharge lacks anal tone, and fresh
Speaker 1: bleeding from the rectum. Man just an incredible number of
Speaker 1: of banded names in that sentence you just said. The
Speaker 1: most common presenting clinical features of calonic perforation are para
Speaker 1: tonal irritation with rebound tenderness and rigidity of the abdomen,
Speaker 1: accompanied by fever and rapid heartbeat. These features should raise
Speaker 1: the suspicion of a presence of a clonic foreign body playing.
Speaker 1: Radio graphs are useful in diagnosing the perforations. However, a
Speaker 1: ct S can is recommended if the findings are not
Speaker 1: definitive or if the presence of a foreign body cannot
Speaker 1: be ruled in or out by radio graphs alone. So
Speaker 1: so yeah, this is this is how we get from
Speaker 1: putting horse putting eels up horses butts to make them
Speaker 1: seem younger and carry their tail high. And well, two
Speaker 1: people dying and almost dying from eels eating their insides
Speaker 1: because you saw it in a porn video. But I
Speaker 1: just I really do love the like the actual like
Speaker 1: linguistic pathway of feeding and then feeding changing from eels
Speaker 1: to ginger, then the ginger thing changing from feeding to
Speaker 1: figging for sex, and then going back to eels. It's
Speaker 1: like full circle. It's just just beautiful, the beauty of life.
Speaker 1: It's like poetry at rhymes. Yeah, exactly, It's amazing how
Speaker 1: it just a complete full circle moment of starting with
Speaker 1: eels with with figging, and ending with eels with figging. Um.
Speaker 1: I love the human language. Humans are great, except for
Speaker 1: all the horrible things that we do. This is again,
Speaker 1: we probably shouldn't be doing this as like a global
Speaker 1: pandemic and wasting hospital space because you keep shoving eels
Speaker 1: up your butt like a lot of these were like
Speaker 1: three three of these were like guys in the recommendation. Officially, no,
Speaker 1: stop stop doing it. You can buy then, you can
Speaker 1: buy toys. You can buy toys that do the same thing. Respect.
Speaker 1: Eels can't consent backtfully, Robert, shut the fuck up. The
Speaker 1: eels can't consent. The eels can listen to listen to Garrison.
Speaker 1: Do not listen to Robert. That this actually does bring
Speaker 1: us full circle, because what is perfectly safe and what
Speaker 1: is perfectly ethical is using ethically slaughtered horse and ethically
Speaker 1: fished eels to make an eel horse. I mean it
Speaker 1: is more ethical. It is more ethical than shoving an
Speaker 1: eel up your friends. But as they are asleep and
Speaker 1: then and then them dying, that is true. So anyway,
Speaker 1: that that is the ballad of eel horse and how
Speaker 1: we get from eel horse to our modern eel anal epidemic. Perfect,
Speaker 1: perfect lineage, just amazing lineage. Ah. If you're out there
Speaker 1: and you've got a horse that's about to die of
Speaker 1: natural causes, we want to put eels in it and
Speaker 1: cook it. God, so hit us up. I would like
Speaker 1: to be excluded from this narrative, but it is. It's
Speaker 1: cool toon media. I hurt media dot com, cool zone
Speaker 1: media at I heart media dot com. Find hob horribly
Speaker 1: horribly dame. If you if you've got a lion on
Speaker 1: a significant quantity of raw eels, we might, we might,
Speaker 1: we might need that too, But I think I can
Speaker 1: probably I'm gonna leave. I'm gonna I'm gonna, well, you're
Speaker 1: going to cook the eel horse with me, Garrison. That's
Speaker 1: going to happen when we finally get the horse and
Speaker 1: the eels. Can I just say, can I just say, Garrison,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry that I'm sorry. I had to
Speaker 1: watch so many of these videos, to watch many of
Speaker 1: those videos to surely academic, purely academic. In fairness, absolutely
Speaker 1: no one asked you to do this. No one ever
Speaker 1: would have asked you to do this. We're asking you,
Speaker 1: the listener at home, to check us out wherever podcasts
Speaker 1: find the Bastards happened here, that happened here, pod I
Speaker 1: wrote a book called After the Revolution. Maybe the sequel
Speaker 1: will include an eel horse. If it's tasty, maybe that's
Speaker 1: the future of food. There's no way to know. I
Speaker 1: do like that this is. I know we've covered a
Speaker 1: lot of darker topics on Behind the Bastards more recently,
Speaker 1: and I do like this is. This is a very
Speaker 1: nice light light beacon. And like the Bastards totem Pole,
Speaker 1: we are pretty pretty low relatively means still, it's like
Speaker 1: Phoenix programs, pretty high, but like but like the like
Speaker 1: the horse salesman thing, they're they're pretty bad, but they're
Speaker 1: on the lower end. I mean, it is there. They're
Speaker 1: like they're they're they're they're on the lower end of bastards.
Speaker 1: So I do like to have a bit of a
Speaker 1: lighter presence in this in this episode. So you're welcome
Speaker 1: for that. Um and yep, I'm done talking about this topic.
Speaker 1: Come over, Garrison, I'm gonna cook crocodile tonight. I found
Speaker 1: a place that will say I am, I am coming,
Speaker 1: I'm coming right over actually in bye bye, Hey everybody,
Speaker 1: wanted to record a note. Some people on the subcredit
Speaker 1: got quite frustrated about some of the claims about the
Speaker 1: Phoenix program um. They pointed out and ask Historians thread,
Speaker 1: which doesn't put any shade on the specific claims made
Speaker 1: by the author Douglas Valentine's about the eels and whatnot,
Speaker 1: but does generally have issues with his sourcing. At least
Speaker 1: one of his sources was one of the guy that's
Speaker 1: very common when you're talking about Vietnam, which was like
Speaker 1: some dude who pretended to have done something that he
Speaker 1: hadn't or to have had a position that he hadn't.
Speaker 1: You find this a lot on like both sides of
Speaker 1: the war crimes discussion. I wanted to know that Number One,
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely convinced by that Asked Historians thread, because
Speaker 1: it's just a guy talking about you know why he
Speaker 1: doesn't think this is a particularly credible and that thread
Speaker 1: he talks about. One of his justifications is that like
Speaker 1: eliminating insurgent infrastructure at a ground levels of basic counterinsurgency
Speaker 1: tactic um, which yeah, it is a basic counterinsurgency tactic.
Speaker 1: Counterinsurgency operations nearly always involved significant war crimes UM, and
Speaker 1: you can see that no matter who is doing the counterinsurgency,
Speaker 1: whether it's Kenya or Afghanistan with the Russians, you know
Speaker 1: it's it's it's war crimes are part and parcel of counterinsurgency. UM.
Speaker 1: The mess is kind of one of the reasons why
Speaker 1: we don't generally delve into this territory too much without
Speaker 1: doing it in a dedicated episode is that when you're
Speaker 1: talking about like crimes against humanity, specifically once the CIA
Speaker 1: was involved in UM, you've got a couple of different sources.
Speaker 1: Some of them are going to be declassified documents, which
Speaker 1: you know, in a lot of cases you actually do have.
Speaker 1: Here's the CIA talking about fucked up ship they did,
Speaker 1: but a lot of information was destroyed, a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff never got written down. And so a lot of
Speaker 1: times when you're talking about war crimes in a variety
Speaker 1: of countries, you're getting human sources. Some of those will
Speaker 1: be victims, some of those will be guys who were
Speaker 1: in the CIA or who were in another military branch
Speaker 1: and who there's always different kind of levels of credibility
Speaker 1: and kind of shortcomings and inconsistencies in their stories, and
Speaker 1: it's all sort of complicated by the fact that debate
Speaker 1: over US war crimes in Vietnam within the United States
Speaker 1: is incredibly political. Um. You can look at this when
Speaker 1: you're just trying to determine the actual body count, right
Speaker 1: there's a massive ongoing debate about how many civilians were
Speaker 1: killed specifically and how many civilians were killed by the
Speaker 1: United States, but just how many died in general in
Speaker 1: Vietnam and Cambodia UM. And you can find historians arguing
Speaker 1: at nauseum about this. UM. One of the big debates
Speaker 1: with a lot of the kind of ground level war crimes,
Speaker 1: because on any objective level, majority of war crimes the
Speaker 1: US is responsible in Vietnam were committed from the air.
Speaker 1: But when you're talking about ground level war crimes like
Speaker 1: we were talking about here, you'll run into a couple
Speaker 1: of different books, Nick terss Kill Anything That Moves and
Speaker 1: Gary Kulik's War Stories, And these are very opposed books.
Speaker 1: And you can find a lot of criticism about terse
Speaker 1: his book um in online by historians. Uh Kulik is
Speaker 1: who's critical of ters is generally seen as more credible.
Speaker 1: Kulik was also a U S soldier in Vietnam, um.
Speaker 1: And again so you're there's always this tremendous amount of
Speaker 1: bias kind of no matter where you you come at
Speaker 1: it from. And other people will point out that a
Speaker 1: lot of the early like push to talk about US
Speaker 1: war crimes in Vietnam was funded by Hanoi, which you
Speaker 1: can say, yeah, and of course they have an agenda,
Speaker 1: but also but yeah, they were also the victims of
Speaker 1: a lot of war crimes. So this is just I
Speaker 1: don't know, um. I this is not a case where
Speaker 1: I feel like we necessarily got something wrong, um, because
Speaker 1: I'm not convinced that the Douglas Valentine book is wrong,
Speaker 1: especially based on the evidence that we have. But it
Speaker 1: is worth noting that there is a tremendous amount of
Speaker 1: debate over all of this, and as a general rule,
Speaker 1: when we delve into stuff like this, UM, we will
Speaker 1: try to make sure that it's in a thing focused
Speaker 1: on that so that we can actually cover the swath
Speaker 1: of historiography on the subject, rather than kind of um,
Speaker 1: pass over a little bit of it, um and then
Speaker 1: lead people to think that, Okay, well what about this,
Speaker 1: what about this argument, what about that argument? Um? This
Speaker 1: is all incredibly political history. So that's uh what you
Speaker 1: get