1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: What's riddled with gna rhea? My Sophie? How do I 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: finish this? I don't want to know? Well, that is 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 1: slightly applicable for today. Oh good, okay, Well, this is 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards the podcast with a slightly applicable introduction 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: for the first time in quite a while. I'm Robert Evans, 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: your host normally, but not today because today my buddy 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: Garrison is here. Garrison has a very special story. I 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: really don't know what to expect here. Should I start 9 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: by giving the background? Um? Yeah, yeah. Ever since I've 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: known Robert Roberts, Roberts had a dream. Um uh when yeah, Robert? 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: What is so? For a little bit of background on me, 12 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time living in the middle 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: of nowhere in the mountains, and I developed a love 14 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: for cooking food in pits buried under the ground. You like, 15 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: you wrap up a bunch of meat, like a turkey, 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: stuffed with stuff, and you wrap it in the foil 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: and you bury it and you build a fire around 18 00:00:58,320 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: and you cook it over the course of like a 19 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: day while you're drinking heavily. It's a great time way 20 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: to like make a turkey. Um, I do it? Around 21 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: the holidays a couple of times a year when I 22 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: have the opportunity. And several years ago I had a 23 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: dream and I saw a vision of a horse stuffed 24 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: with eels and cooked underground in a pit fire. And 25 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: I've never been able to get it out of my head. 26 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: I am still working on. I was briefly in contact 27 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: with someone who thought they could get me one last year, 28 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: and I fucked that up because my mom got cancer 29 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 1: and I wound up like, I don't know, just not 30 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: being great at correspondence for a while. You sucked it up. 31 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: If you're that person, hit me up again, because I 32 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: still want the horse. But my dream is to get 33 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: a horse that has been obviously gutted. Stuff it full 34 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: of eels. Lamb prais are acceptable. That's a kind of eel. 35 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: Any kind of eel will be fine. Um Stuff it 36 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: full of eels. Wrap the fucker up in either foil 37 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: or maybe even like banana leafs if we want to 38 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: do it like really, you know, pro um or burlap 39 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: or something, and then bury it, you know, a food 40 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: not a foot underground, Like just bury it to where 41 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: it's at like ground level, cover it in dirt, and 42 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: keep a big circular fire going around it for probably 43 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: like twenty hours. I'm guessing that's how seriously listeners could 44 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: see Gary's faith right now, what is it? Oh sorry, 45 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: my cameras on you. What does Garrison look like? Just 46 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: an absolute smirk anyway, this has been my dream for 47 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: some time. Yeah, you you constantly talk about it. It's 48 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: it's all I want out of out of the world. Yeah, 49 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: in that for me today, Garrison, well kind of we'll see, 50 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: so a little taste of my own medicine. So yeah, Well, 51 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: one night I was doing an extremely hardcore gaming session 52 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: with with a friend of mine and for some reason, 53 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: eel horse came up because just Robert talks about it 54 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: all the time. So for some reason this idea of 55 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: eel horse came up over the course of our very 56 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: intense gaming session. Um and, so my friend had had 57 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: the bravery to put the words eel and horse into 58 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: Google um and and that led us down a pretty 59 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: nightmaresh rabbit hole that I knew that I do had 60 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: to become a bastard's episode, which leads us to now 61 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: our our our discussion of the real life heel horse 62 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: and and the eel wielding bastards of today. So I'm 63 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: very excited. Yeah. So we're gonna start off by going 64 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: way back to the late medieval period in England, good 65 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: time and the bustling business of selling horses. So let's 66 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: let's say you're an old timey horse salesman. You got 67 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: yourself some horses that you want to sell. But the 68 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: problem get sixteen apples to the league. Yeah, but the 69 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: problem is that some of your horses are getting a 70 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: bit old, you know, a little sluggish. They're not as 71 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: lively as they used to be in their youth. That's 72 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: what happens to horses already laughing, they know this is going. 73 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: So you're thinking, like, what what could I do to 74 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: make these horses a bit more spry and lively? And 75 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: and then very similar to very similar to your vision. Um, 76 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: what I'm guessing happen is like basically you're thinking what 77 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: can I do? And then God comes down to you 78 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: from the clouds and says, my, my child, My my 79 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: horse salesman, child, have you considered putting a live eel 80 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 1: up the horses butt? Oh my God? Yes? Wait what 81 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: you reply to God? How how will that solve my problem? 82 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: And then then God, in his divine wisdom speaks to 83 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: you from the heavens and says, well, a live eel 84 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: inserted up the horses anist might stimulate the horse and 85 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: make it appear to be younger and in its more 86 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: active years, thus fetching a higher price for your inactuality 87 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: older horses. You are telling me, Garrison, that shoving a 88 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: live eel up the ass of an aging horse was 89 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: the old timy equivalent of like turning back the the 90 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: odometer on a car. Oh yeah, baby, that fucking rules. 91 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: So so upon comprehending your godly enlightenment, you you thank 92 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: the Lord for gifting you a piece of his everlasting 93 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: wisdom in your your divine vision. Oh Father in Heaven, I, 94 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: your humble servant, am internally grateful for your You're you're 95 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: blessing me with this prosperous inspiration. I'll go forth and 96 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: place as many eels up the rect of elder horses, 97 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: just as you say, and i shall spread this gospel 98 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: of eel horse to the other horse sellers, so we 99 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: may all share in your holy riches. And I'm pretty 100 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: sure that's how it went, because throughout the fifteen hundreds, 101 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: possibly earlier, it's it's unclear when this started, but it 102 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: definitely was. It was very popular throughout the fifteen hundreds 103 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: and early eighteen hundreds. That's amazing. Yeah, so inswering live 104 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,559 Speaker 1: life yels up the back into horses, that the horses 105 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: that were past their prime to make them appear more 106 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: like frisky and young. Because that's the phrase that keeps 107 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: coming up, is that when when when when? When they 108 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: were looking to buy horses, a good sign of a 109 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: horse was that it carries its tail well. Means the 110 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: tail is like upright and like almost erect. Is that 111 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: it's very fluffy. And the same people sure, well furries 112 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: at least furries. Yeah, so and and and the eel 113 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: thing very much. The phrase that they kept using was 114 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: like putting the eel up helps keep the tail held 115 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: well because because the horse I am, I'm just imagining 116 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: generations of like marks buying women horses and like, god 117 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: damn it, the eel this one too. That's that is 118 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: exactly what happened. You gotta check the asshole, Mitch. I 119 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: telled you that never buy a used horse without check 120 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: in the asshole. So yeah, so yeah, in certain lit 121 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: deals on the back ends of horses past their prime, 122 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: was very common to make them appear more frisky and young, 123 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: you know, and happen to eel. I mean, whatever eels 124 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: were available in England. It's it's it's it's hard. It's 125 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: hard to say because there's not extremely thrown documentation of this. 126 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: Most of the documentation comes from comes from dictionaries and 127 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: literary references. So you hear this like appearing in like 128 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: poems and stories and be like describing what selling horses 129 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: was like. Um and definitely. So there's two kinds of 130 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 1: eels in the UK, silver and conjure. It's not a 131 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: conjure eel. Look up the conjure eel look decisive this thing. 132 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not sure like the size of horses, 133 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, no, it's not a conjural. It's 134 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: not an alligator. That's that is that is discomfitingly large, 135 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: that's set in how big that eel is? That that 136 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: is generally pro eel, but that is toom Okay, it's 137 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: probably a silver eel. Looks more manageable. So I'm guessing 138 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: it's a silver eel. So yeah, you could fit one 139 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: of those up a horses, ass, no problem. What happened 140 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: right up an asshole, just say this was not what 141 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: I thought was going to be happening today. I couldn't 142 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: I couldn't be happier. So so yeah, Often what what 143 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: happened would be when when people would come into the 144 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: show room to see the horses like this table, boys 145 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: would be like would shove the eels up there really quickly. 146 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: Green people were coming to visit. Um sou so there 147 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: is there is, there is a word for this. The 148 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,559 Speaker 1: process was called feeding or to feed a horse. Um 149 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. We find we find reference to this process 150 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: in in the excellent Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue. Um. 151 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: There in a few copies of this have have feging. 152 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to read from one from it says, to 153 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: feed is to put a live eel up the horses fundament, 154 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: to make him lively and carry his tail. Well. Um. 155 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: The author goes on to note that the practice was 156 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: so widespread that quote it is it is said a 157 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: forfeit is incurred by any horse dealer's servant who shall 158 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: shoot a horse without feeding him first. So pretty good, 159 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: pretty good stuff. Credible. Um. Okay, you know I make 160 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: a lot of jokes about the war against the horses. 161 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: But like it's hard to name an animal that's taken 162 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: more hits for the team, the team being humanity than 163 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: the horse. Like the horse we have we have fucked 164 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: them over for so Like dogs were like, yeah, you 165 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: want to be best friends and like hunt together and 166 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: hang out and we'll give you food. With horses are 167 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: like you know what machine guns are here about to 168 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: learn it's your job to run towards them. Yeah, horses, 169 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: horses have taken decent, decent amount of abuse. Um, we've 170 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: really uh yeah, I didn't know that this had happened, 171 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: but yeah, speaking What's what's really fun is that you 172 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: can find a good number of references to this phenomenon 173 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: in literary writing from the time um. In sixteen sixteen, 174 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: there was a book of poems published by the then 175 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: late poet Thomas Overbury and included an array of poetic 176 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: character character sketches of like unsavory types of people written 177 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: by various anonymous authors. On one of these poems, excellent 178 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:06,719 Speaker 1: details the character. One of these poems details the characteristics 179 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: of an uh an errand horse courser Um and noted that, 180 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: among other unsavory habits, the man knows how to cover 181 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: up diseases and defects of all sorts. For pounding his 182 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: horses ars with quicksilver and giving him suppositories of live eels. 183 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: He's an expert, pretty, referring to putting a live eel 184 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: up an ass as a suppository, suppository of live els. Yeah, 185 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: that that is incredible. That is amazing, he Harrison. I'm 186 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: very proud of you. He is expert expert at an 187 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: errand horse courser. Oh man, um man, maybe this is 188 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: how I prepare the eel horse, starting at while the 189 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: horse was alive. No, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't 190 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: do that. You realize that they're supposed to be bad guys, 191 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: right like the like they're the use they're literally the 192 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: used cars salesman of the medieval period. Yes, and they're 193 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: shoving sho come down to Slick Joe's Discounter horse depot. 194 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: Absolutely no wheels up their assholes. A young John Milton 195 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: mentioned figging in incredible in a sixteen Latin poem while 196 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: mocking his fellow Cambridge students. Um He described a certain 197 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: Irish bird as quote more useful to grooms because they're 198 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: by nature lively and brisk and prancing and if they 199 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: were forced into the anus of a scriggly horse, they 200 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: would make them livelier and quicker than had ten than 201 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: if they had ten live wheels of their bellies. Wow, Garrison, 202 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: I want to congratulate you here because for years, Sophie 203 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: will back me up on this. I have been trying 204 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,119 Speaker 1: to work in paradise. Lost connections to behind the bastards 205 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: hasn't happened yet. We just don't go far back enough. 206 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: But you finally brought old J. Milt into it and 207 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: roll the West of sixteen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what 208 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: everyone says the Humors. The humors poet Edward Award in 209 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: his seventeen hundred uh a Song upon Dancing, wrote that 210 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: dancers skip with a nimble force as eels as the 211 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: belly of a horse, which jockeys use each each market 212 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: day to make him dance. As people say, So that's nice. Um, actually, yeah, 213 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: he had. He had a decent little thing going. So yeah. 214 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: Unfortunate or unfortunately depending on the perspective. But by the 215 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: late seventeen hundreds and early eighteen hundreds, the eel anal 216 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: insertion had begun to fall out of fashion. Um as 217 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: horse salesman realized probably again via divine revelation from the Lord, 218 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: that the same effect, or at least a similar effect, 219 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: could be achieved by instead inserting a piece of spicy 220 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 1: ginger up the horses urs um. And this is apparently 221 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: still an issue at horse shows that people have to 222 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: like enforce stop people from shoving ginger ginger up the 223 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: butt of horses to make Yeah, this is still like 224 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: an ongoing problem that needs like enforcement of bus shows. Yeah, yeah, 225 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 1: the ginger police. Yeah. But that means though, if you 226 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 1: if you went back to shoven eels up their asses, 227 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: nobody would catch it. They're not still checking for eel. 228 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: I'm just telling you, if you want to cheat at 229 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: having nice horses eels, that's wide open, baby. Yeah, try 230 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: an electric one. Maybe that's how I'll cook it, Garrison, 231 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Okay, well we'll talk about it. Yeah, 232 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: but we we still do actually have the the modern 233 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: phrase to ginger up or do we spice upper horse? 234 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: This comes from feging. I've never heard of that phrase, 235 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: but I'll trust you it's it's it's it's it's a phrase. 236 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: Um and and this is this is also where we 237 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: get to the modern B D S M practice called 238 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: figging again driving from the feeding where but but figging 239 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: is usually a butt plug made of ginger placed up 240 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 1: someone sanis um and this this we will circle back 241 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: to this at the end, um, because this will help 242 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: us explain a modern modern eel issue we have. Um. Yes, 243 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: modern eel issues are very serious. Yeah, speaking of eel shoes. 244 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: Eel shoes speak. Speaking of eel shoes. Uh, do you 245 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: know who else wants you to buy live eels to 246 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: stick up the butts of horses? Oh gosh, I mean 247 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: jesus um our friends at Uh, I don't know one 248 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: of the food we call it. We call it stimulations. Yeah, 249 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: stimulations people who make those fucking uh those uh those 250 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: with with with uh all of ours, Oh my gosh, 251 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: obviously they are all huge fans of cheven eels and assholes. 252 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: In fact, that's the only requirement we have of our sponsors. 253 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: Have you put an eel in some things, but doesn't 254 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: have to be a horse, and in fact, oftentimes it's 255 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: a completely different species. Um. We like it when they 256 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: get created of and that's the behind the bastards guarantee 257 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: We're back all right, Garrison, I'm I'm ready so so yeah, 258 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: so the first bastards of today are the fourteen through 259 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: seventeenth century horse salesman. Um. But unfortunate, unfortunately, we still 260 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: have some time left in this episode. As you can tell, um, 261 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: and and and once me and my friends started googling 262 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: eel and anus, this let us down a dark rabbit 263 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: hole that forever scared my mind. Um, yeah, I can 264 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: see how that would go to some bad places. Actually, unfortunately, 265 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: we're going to be briefly moving away from horses and 266 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: towards another h species called humans, which which which which 267 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: leads us to probably the darkest, most evil segment today's episode, 268 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: The Phoenix Program. Oh, that sounds like a good thing 269 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: to be involved in assholes being filled with. So the 270 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: Phoenix Program was the rutal counterinsurgency program started in nineteen 271 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: sixty eight and run by William Colby later ahead of 272 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: the CIA. It was aimed at reading out Viet Cong 273 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: or anyone deemed Vietcong sympathizers. The Viet Cong was anybody 274 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: that we happened to bomb. Um. Yeah, so weading out 275 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: anyone deemed Vietcong sympathizers by identification and neutralization. Uh. With 276 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: with the with the methodology of infiltration, capture, terrorism, torture, 277 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: and assassination. The Phoenix program was designed, coordinated, and executed 278 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: primarily by the CIA, with some help by the United 279 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: States Special Operations Forces during the war in Vietnam. Versions 280 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: of the program we're kind of an operation between sixty 281 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: between nineteen sixty five and nineteen sixty and nineteen seventy two. 282 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: But but the official program and an official body count 283 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: begun in sixty eight UM, and similar programs existed both 284 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: before and after that period. UM. But you know, for 285 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: the official Phoenix program, it starts and starts in eight 286 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 1: goes to seventy two UM. By two Phoenix operatives had 287 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: to quote unquote neutralized at least any one thousand and 288 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: six d forty people UM suspected of being operatives or 289 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: sympathizers of the Vietcong UM, at least twenty six thousand, 290 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: of whom were officially killed, but South Vietnamese officials estimate 291 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: over forty thousand were killed. UM Military intelligence officer K. 292 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: Milton Osborne witnessed the wrote a book about his time there, 293 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: and witnessed the following forms of torture UM, including the 294 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 1: use of of inserting a six inch dowel into the 295 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: cavity of a detainees ears and tapping, tapping the dowel 296 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: through the brain until the person dies. Uh, a lot 297 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: of a lot of starvation to death inside a cage 298 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: um and other and I'm going to read a quote now. 299 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: Other methods of torture used in the interrogation centers include rape, 300 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: gang rape, rape using hard objects, rape followed by murder, 301 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: electric shock by attaching wires to the genitals, and rape 302 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: using eels and snakes. Um, so this is this is 303 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: like the most fucking evil humanity can do. Like the 304 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: Phoenix program is like is like up there and like 305 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: the most like evil. No, yeah, it's that's on the 306 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: same level. It's like the most bastard you can be. 307 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: Like all like the horrific abuses done in the Phoenix 308 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: program by the American government. And there was there was 309 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: assistance from the South Vietnamians government, assistance from Australia, but 310 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 1: it was mostly the American government. Um it is it 311 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: is like the most possibly evil thing if you like 312 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: about the Phoenix program in detail. That's the highest it. Well, 313 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: we'll do a we'll do a whole thing. No, yeah, 314 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: they deserve their own like Series one there after the 315 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: nine part Kissinger series, like William Colby and the CIA 316 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: in the Vietnam War. It's that they're like, it's extremely, 317 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: extremely fucking nightmare. I mean it's like it's like people 318 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: talk rightly about um u UM, which was a Japanese 319 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: military detachment that did like biological and chemical warfare research 320 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: that involved some of the worst stories of like torture, 321 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: um and experiment like like and like Dr Mangela, And 322 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: we talk about these as if like these are unique 323 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: horrors of like fascist countries. Um. I guess you could 324 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: say they're unique cars of fascist countries because certainly, within 325 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 1: the context of our policies in Vietnam, the United States 326 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: was doing some fashion as hell ship. Um. But like 327 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: the ship that US that the CIA pulled in Vietnam, 328 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: is that same level, like that exact same level. It 329 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: is not. It is not devaluing the horrors of the 330 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: Holocaust or of the Japanese war crimes in Manchuria to 331 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: put this kind of ship. I mean, they're raping people 332 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: with eels until they die, until raping people to death 333 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: with eels, Like what what do you? Yeah, I was 334 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 1: I was aware of this sort of thing mainly with 335 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,239 Speaker 1: snakes and stuff. But yeah, out after some of the 336 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: details of the abuses like this less than the Horse, No, yeah, 337 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: this is this is this is definitely less fun. So 338 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 1: after some of the details of the horrific abuses by 339 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: the CIA and Army that was carried on in Vietnam, 340 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: as they slowly came to light in the early seventies, 341 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: the program was officially shut down under public pressure, but 342 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: in actuality it just it just continued under a different 343 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: name um. And some of the control of the program 344 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: was handed to the South Vietnam government. UM. And yeah, 345 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of hard to pivot away from something 346 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: that's dark, UM. But I'm going to think of it 347 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: as a way to help kind of wash down the 348 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: human filth that we just discussed. UM. Because because now 349 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 1: we we are gonna we are going to discuss the 350 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: the modern eel anus problem. UM. And now this this 351 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: is I'm glad we're getting We're getting up to the 352 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: modern day exiting. So this this is, this is a 353 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: thing with multiple facets, um, and a sizeable portion of 354 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: which is an extension of the figging figging connection. And Christ, well, good, 355 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: actually this is good. I would of that, it goes 356 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: back to the horses. Yeah, so thank god. April in 357 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: the Guangdong Province of China, a destructively horny, a single, 358 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: thirty nine year old man was watching cat was watching 359 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: Everything's Coming together for this story, was watching an eel 360 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: figging porn, and he had the uncontrollable urge to try 361 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: it himself. Wait, wait, watching he was watching an eel 362 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: thinking porn. So but here's this, I think you said 363 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: eighteen thirteen. No, this is two us and thirteen two 364 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: thirteen miss heard watching porn. Okay, yeah to us and thirteen. 365 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: Horribly horny old man was watching an eel thinking porn, 366 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: and he the uncontrollable to try himself. I see fin 367 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: researching this episode, I've seen about every video of eel's 368 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 1: going into bodies on the internet. Yeah, okay, it's a watch. 369 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: We should watch Zoo together, Garrison. Um. Anyway, so he 370 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: tried himself, and he tried to just he tried to grab. 371 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: He tried to keep holding the eel for the duration 372 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: of the of the period, but he lost probably a 373 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: good idea, but he lost grip of the slippery little fucker. 374 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: See that's that's that's rookie ship. You gotta get you 375 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: gotta get a get a get a get a like 376 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: rope around that and it's it swam all the way 377 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: up there, and that's gonna happen. After fail attempts to 378 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: remove the eel, the man went to the emergency room 379 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: for medical assistance. Um, and he told the presumably confused medics, 380 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: please please help me. The eel is moving through my body. UM. 381 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: Imagine that's just your fucking day, right, Like you're six 382 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: hours into a shift, you're getting ready to go home, 383 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: you're tired, you've already seen some ship. And the kid's like, 384 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: there's an eel moving inside of me for undetermined reasons, 385 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: and like that's the rest of your fucking night. Yep. So, 386 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: the twitter centimeter long eel tuted the way through the 387 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: man's colon, up perforated his large intestine, and became stuck 388 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: in the body cavity. The medical team that treated the 389 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: man reportedly said to the eel, which we made about 390 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: a pound, was quote simply trying to find its way out, 391 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: and their fair play by the eel anything, None of 392 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: the none of the things we're talking about today is 393 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: the eel's fault. None of these. None of what we're 394 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,719 Speaker 1: talking about today is to say that nothing has ever 395 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: been in eel's fault because their eel. No, it is 396 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: this is just on us, totally on us. UM. The 397 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: medical team said the eel was still alive when we 398 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: got it out, but it died soon afterwards, which was 399 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: probably a mercy. So yeah, I have I have read, 400 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: um every single story of eel's going up people's butts 401 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: such you can find on the internet. UM, and a 402 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: decent amount of these instants track I think the decent 403 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: amount of them do track back to getting the idea 404 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: from porn um. But but that is far from the 405 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: only cause of eel anal penetration, because that would be unreasonable. Yeah. 406 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: So three years prior back in a fifty nine year 407 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: old chef from the z from the Zegong city of 408 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 1: China went to the hospital complaining of abdominable pain, dehydration, 409 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,959 Speaker 1: and a great deal of anal bleeding and he truly 410 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: did not know what was going on. He actually had 411 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: no idea. UM. So doctors also had no idea what 412 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: was the cause of this, and they resorted to cutting 413 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: open his inerts, in which they discovered a fifty centimeter 414 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: long Asian swamp eel lodged in his rectum. It was 415 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 1: already it was already dead, but the eel had apparently 416 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: already reaked havoc through the inside of his body, biting 417 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: the way through his intestines prior to dying. Internal bleeding 418 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: and infection rapidly set in. The man was hospital's large. 419 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: So that's that's slightly too big to get in a 420 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: horse's asshole. As a lot of it's there's so I've 421 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: not included pictures in the script here, but basically every 422 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: for every story from the Chinese hospitals, the Chinese hospitals 423 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: popload all all of these pictures. It is kind of 424 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: still it is absurd how many pictures of and like 425 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: videos of these procedures they upload themselves, like entire videos 426 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: of them surgically doing this. It's it's pretty, It's pretty. 427 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: It's pretty night maerish. Um. So, yeah, the man was 428 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: hospitalized for ten days, but he eventually died. Um. So 429 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: this this, this, this, this did kill him. Yeah, that 430 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: sounds about right. Again, we should watch Zoo afterwards. The 431 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: probable cause was actually established, so the chef had been 432 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: drinking with friends and he had passed out his his 433 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: friends that decided it would be and they decided it 434 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,239 Speaker 1: would be amusing prank to insert a live eel up 435 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: his anist while he was comatosed, and not to tell him. 436 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: Oh my god. I mean, look, I've done some things 437 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: I would regret while drinking, but I have always informed 438 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: people when I've put a live eel inside them. That's 439 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: we have. We have a friend who falls asleep often 440 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: while watching movies, and we sometimes we still messed with them. 441 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: But I think things on their head all sorts of 442 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: But I think I think this is too far. Honestly, 443 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: would they would say killing them via an eel eating 444 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: their internal organs is taking I think it's too much. 445 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: I think it's too much. I'm I'm all for committing 446 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: to the bit, but honestly, I think this is too far. 447 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: I think it's it's too much. You know what, you 448 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,239 Speaker 1: know where I think they went wrong is when they 449 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: were shoving a live animal up their friends asshole as 450 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: the person was asleep. Yeah, I think maybe that was 451 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: I think that was an issue. Yeah, So this is 452 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: one of the few instances that is like totally not 453 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: this person's fault. Um and his his his friends. I 454 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: think we're we're investigated and prosecuted by by whatever authorities anyway. Um. 455 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: But before we get to like the big kicker, Um, 456 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: there is some other general kind of eel news worth 457 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: mentioning um to us. In twelve AMN in New Zealand, 458 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: gun neil removed via surgery after the slippery fucker got 459 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: stuck up as rectum. It wasn't officially revealed how or 460 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: why it got up there, so that is that is 461 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: left to us to aside. Um. But the unique aspect 462 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: of this story is that thirty three hospital staff all 463 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: got in trouble for sharing X ray photos of the 464 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: eel and licking the story to the media. Um. Because interesting, 465 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: because that's kind of shitty. It's it's it's totally it's 466 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 1: it's totally different. In China and China they also gets uploaded. Um. 467 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: But in New Zealand, the hospital got mad that the 468 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: employees were leaking pictures of this incident. Um, Yeah, that's 469 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: kind of mean. The next person who gets an eel 470 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: stuck up their asshole and go to the doctor to 471 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: see that is the thing which although I will say, 472 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: if you're the kind of person who tortures a live 473 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: animal to get off. I don't really care if you 474 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: get medical treatment. Yeah, not really. Um. Oh and into 475 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: US In fourteen, a Brazilian man had emergency surgery to 476 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: remove an eel from his backside. Again, the the exact 477 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: reasoning it being unknown, but I'm pretty sure about these 478 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: incidents are related to kink stuff. UM. And we're gonna 479 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna discuss this more towards the and because there 480 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: is there is one other reason people people claim for 481 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: for once they go to the doctor, how they explain 482 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: why an eel is up there butt? So on on 483 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: onto the main eel an epidemic. So this this starts 484 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: in two US three, actually is the first instance I 485 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: can find this UM specifically in like in like our 486 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: our modern documentation. UM. I'm going to read directly from 487 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: the hospital report. Now this this is somewhere in China. 488 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure what where, because the report doesn't 489 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: specify exactly UM. And there there isn't any other reporting 490 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: of this incident besides this one hospital report. So it's 491 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: just it's just this hospital report anyway. UM. Fifty year 492 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: old man was seeing at the Excident and Emergency department 493 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: because of abdominable pain. The physical examination revealed redness and 494 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: swelling around the tissue around the abdomen. A shadow of 495 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: an eel was noticed on the ubdominable radiograph. Upon further questioning, 496 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: the patient admitted that and eo is insterted into the 497 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: rectum in an attempt to relieve constipation. I mean on 498 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: a moral level, that's I guess better than putting an 499 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: el up r ask for sexual gratification. Why would you 500 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: think if it's true? Um? Anyway, UM emergency laparotomy found 501 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: that the fifty centimeter long eel was biting the splenic 502 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: flexure of the colon. Multiple perforations were found around the 503 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: walls of the rectum, and the post operative, of course, 504 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: was uneventful. That the patient patient was discharged from onto 505 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: home on like day seven. So this appears to be 506 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: the most claimed reason given by people found who have 507 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: an eel up there? Butt on on why said eel 508 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: is up there? Butt uh? They they most often claim 509 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: constant pation um. And there has been an a decent 510 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: uptick in reported incidents of eel up the anus uh 511 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: to cure constellation since twenty seventeen. UM. In April April seventeen, 512 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: forty nine year old factory worker from the capital of 513 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: South China's Going Dong province was rushed to the hospital 514 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: complaining of constipation and a stomach ache. Um. Upon the 515 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: doctor's opening up the man's stomach to discover both feces 516 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,719 Speaker 1: and a foot and a half long eel, the man claimed, 517 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,479 Speaker 1: it's swim up. The man claimed it's time up there 518 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: by itself. Okay, so I'm gonna I got a couple 519 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: of notes. Um. He suffered. He suffered from a puncture, 520 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: pancreas um and uh. According to the doctors, the eel 521 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: managed to break through the man's intestines and generated a 522 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: mess in the man's stomach, almost killing him. Yeah so 523 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: the man later, according to the doctors. The man later 524 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: gave more details post operation, quoting said doctors, but he 525 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: later admitted that he put he put it up there himself, 526 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: following a quote folk remedy for bowel obstruction, as a 527 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: medical expert of the doctor noted that there was no 528 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: scientific basis for such a treatment involving live eels. Yeah, well, 529 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: I okay, so do you know how to cancel an 530 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: Amazon order? Because I just had I was just just 531 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: trying to rush a shipment of eels to my house. 532 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: But I guess I don't need them. Now, you can cancel. 533 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: You go to the order's page. Usually there we go. Yeah. So, yeah, 534 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: the man survived this. It was unclear what happened to 535 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: the eel, so probably not not a great story. Yeah, um, 536 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: would you want to live after that? Though? No? No? Um? 537 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: So apparently what happened Upon further interviewing uh the he 538 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: said that he went to his friends for medical advice 539 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: and they told him about a quote folklore method of 540 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: curing constipation which involved a live eel to help smooth 541 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: bowel movement. So he found he found a Asian swamp 542 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: ill and after the deed had been done, he had 543 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: he got him into the hospital if he started experiencing 544 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: unbearable stomach aches. So and what what's what's really upsetting that? 545 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: This is by knowing me the an isolated incident. Next 546 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: next time we're talking about is September. Again, reading from 547 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: a hospital report, calonic perforation is a common presentation at 548 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: the urgency department. However, foreign body related perforation is responsible 549 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: for less than one percent of these cases. Here we 550 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: describe the case of calonic perforation secondary to the self 551 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: introduction of an eel into the anus. A fifty four 552 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: year old, previously healthy email presented himself to the emergency 553 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: department with a twelve hour history of abdominable pain. Physical 554 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: examination revealed tenderness, rebound tenderness, and involuntary guarding. A CT 555 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: scan of this abdomen and pelvis revealed a foreign body 556 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: in his cavity. Upon further questioning, the patient admitted the 557 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: eo was inserted into his anus by accident. Well, yeah, okay, look, 558 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: we've all put some things up our assholes by accident, 559 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: by accident, by accidents, not living un accident of the 560 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: Monopoly board game, of course, pieces of firearms, absolutely, accident knives, Yes, 561 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: it happens, but not a live animal. That's all. That's 562 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: that was the entire It was an accident. There was 563 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: no clarification. That's it. So he underwent He underwent a 564 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: laparotomy UM and the eel was subsequently removed. He was 565 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: transferred to the standard ward from the emergency ward after 566 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: seven days of observation UM diagnostic. The diagnosing a calonic 567 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: forim body can be challenging, as patients often deny the insertion. Yeah, 568 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: at is recommended. I wouldn't want to admit to that. 569 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: Ct S GET is recommended for patients having a suspected 570 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: calonic foreign body, so that that that's a hospital port um. 571 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: But this, it's this, uh you know, you know, you 572 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: know what else you want to deny the presence of 573 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: Robert Washington State Patrol at black black Rifle coffee at 574 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: chevron ads? Wait what is it? Chevron? I hope it's Chevron. 575 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: I love Chevron. Get some chev chev ads are Our 576 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: next season of podcasts is going to be entirely supported 577 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: by Chevron Chevron fuck it? Why not? And we're back 578 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: um yep talking about eels still still wow, I watched 579 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: eels up inside. You spent so long on this episode 580 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: doing recently mighty boosh anybody too much time I spent 581 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:39,280 Speaker 1: I spent too much time researching this um Anyway. January, 582 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,240 Speaker 1: there was another similar incident, but but with a fun twist. 583 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: Instead of boofing the eels, a fifty one year old 584 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: construction worker in East China's Going Sup Province swallowed two 585 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: live eels to reportedly treat his constipation. Well, I guess 586 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: that's better. It's different it's not better. It's differently. What 587 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 1: I'll say is better is it's there's no question that 588 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't a sex thing. That is that is probably 589 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: this is one of the instances that it probably wasn't 590 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: a sex thing because because again I think part of 591 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: the problem here is once this constipation myth got started 592 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: or like got started, people are gonna hear about it, 593 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: and then you know, people might start actually doing it, 594 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,479 Speaker 1: genuine stupid people. People might start doing it genuine Yeah, 595 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: so people take Joe Rogan's advice on how to treat diseases. 596 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: They're very stupid. So yeah, he was rushing to the 597 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: hospital by his colleagues where it was where he revealed 598 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: that he consumed the eels the day before. During surgery, 599 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: they found they found a quote, very thick eels lodged 600 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 1: outside of the intestines in the lower part of his abdomen. 601 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: Because the coding the doctor, because the eels were alive 602 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: while being swallowed. A person's intestines are fragile, Therefore they 603 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: will be ruptured as soon as the eels bite them, 604 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: said the doctor. Really amazing, So our intestines are not 605 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: We did not evolve to have our intestines bitten by eels. 606 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: This is shocking to They found a two centimeter wide 607 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: hole in the sigmoid colon. Medics said he was in 608 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 1: a state of shock due to life threatening bacterial infection 609 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: around the ruptured colon. He was left in critical condition. 610 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: The one year old man was allegedly following a filk 611 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: remedy and which claims that gobbling live eels could help 612 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,839 Speaker 1: pass a solid waste. According to the surgeon, um yes 613 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: yeah great. Based June and unnamed patient aged in his fifties, 614 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: medical attention again in China's southern province of Going Dong, 615 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,479 Speaker 1: after suffering uh pain in his abdomen for about a week, 616 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, God, Good God in heaven Ah. By this 617 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: time he had severe sepsis leading to septic shock and 618 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 1: it was unable to communicate. It was unable to communicate coherently, 619 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: according to the surgeon, shocking very surprised again, quoting said 620 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: surgeon could have anticipated this ring a ct SC and 621 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: we suspected a foreign body in his abdominal garrison abdominal cavity, 622 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: but we couldn't tell what it was. Then while performing 623 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: a colonoscopy, we discovered it was a nation swamp field 624 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: that entered the kay that entered the cavity um. The 625 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: patient then had an emergency operation to have the eel 626 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: removed from his gut, with doctors opening up his abdomen 627 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,320 Speaker 1: and discovering it filled with waste matter, including excrement and 628 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: puss from his severe infection. The hospital image shows the 629 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: again not included in the document for Sophie's sake, a 630 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: fifteen inch freshwater eel removed intact in the procedure. I 631 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: can send you pictures afterwards, Robert, please, I have a 632 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: lot sounds. This is how it starts, Robert, this is 633 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: how it starts. I'm now eel curious. No, no, you're 634 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: not stop it. You can, like, you can buy things 635 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: that do the same thing. You can you can buy 636 00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: things that are not live eels to do the same thing. 637 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: You can get robotic stuff that does the same exact thing. 638 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 1: You could also get an ovipositor. If you really that 639 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: that is that is that's completely different. Are I just 640 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: object to you doing this comparison? Those are those are? 641 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: Those are those are classy? Okay? I think they're neat 642 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: alright anyway. Um, according the doctor, the eel is already 643 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: dead when it caused to feel bacterial um contamination in 644 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: his adamant due to build up of feces and pus um. 645 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 1: It was only it was it was only after surgery. 646 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: It was only after surgery when we are inquiring after 647 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: his medical and inquiring about his medical history, that he 648 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: told us he used the eel to cure his constipation. 649 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: He inserted it up his anus into his rectum. I 650 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: suspect it was then that the perforation of his signaled 651 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: call it occurred. I also suspect that that is also 652 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: my my guess is that it occurred afterwards. Yeah, yeah, 653 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: that sounds right. Because he had inserted the live hel 654 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: into himself. The chances of him dying were quite high 655 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 1: had he not had the surgery and time again including 656 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,760 Speaker 1: the doctor um. The doctor said that the constipation cure 657 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: folk remedy thing. Uh is uh. He worened members of 658 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 1: the public against doing this um for some reason. Um. Yeah. 659 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: And the patient got discharged days later and then allegedly 660 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: purchased the common freshwater eel from a wet market. According 661 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: to the hospital, So we got we got one more 662 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: what one more? A man again in the going to 663 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: province of East China insert long eel into his direct 664 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 1: him on July allegedly in hopes of relieving constipation, but 665 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 1: instead it almost took his life after the eel entered 666 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 1: his abdomen. He finally went to the doctor after enduring 667 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: pain on the first day as he was, but on 668 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: the first day he he didn't go. Uh he basically 669 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: he didn't go on the first day, but one in 670 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,439 Speaker 1: the second day because he was too shy to see 671 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: a doctor. Yeah, well, okay, to have to explain this 672 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: to the dock um that keeps being an issue in these, 673 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: This is an issue in these, I would say the 674 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: primary issue is putting into Yeah, okay, the doctor who 675 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: did the operation so that he could have lost his 676 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: life as the bacteria and the large intestine may have 677 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: caused humulosis when it reached the abdominable at Jesus Christ 678 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 1: abdominal cabin. There we go, There we go. You did it. 679 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: According to Chinese news outlet Global Times, what motivvated of 680 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: the man to do so was a folk remedy that 681 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: says the eel can help with bowel movement, but instead 682 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 1: of caring the constipation, the eel went inside the men's 683 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: rectum to the colon and bit through it, entering from 684 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: the from the colon into the abdomen um. The deal 685 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: was still alive by the time it was removed during 686 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: operation for the eel. I hope, I hope it's lived 687 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 1: a full life. So this is where things are going 688 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,399 Speaker 1: to kind of tie back to the two eel horse, 689 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: because I think I was waiting for that. I think 690 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: a lot of these incidents are in fact not due 691 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: to constipation, and our people just using that as an excuse. 692 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: They don't have to they don't have to admit the 693 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: slightly more embarrassing reasoning that being that they thought it 694 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: was hot because I remember only the only the first 695 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: guy you mentioned actually admitted it to being a kink 696 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: thing back in But ever since the first story in 697 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen of a guy claiming its constipation, everyone is 698 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: using this reason now. Um. And I think a lot 699 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: of a lot of these incidents are actually actually also 700 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,479 Speaker 1: kink stuff. Um. So back to the figging again rise 701 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: derived from figging with the horse. Um. With with with 702 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: the rise of internet and porn, uh, I think you 703 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: know this stuff has been getting more popular and and 704 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: and and once and once the once the ginger figguring 705 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: isn't exciting you anymore. You know what you're gonna do that. 706 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: That's that's right, baby, return to tradition and use the 707 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: original horse speaking tool, the live eel. And that's what's that. 708 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,359 Speaker 1: That's that's what. That's what's going on. So I talked 709 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:49,359 Speaker 1: to our doctor French Kava, who specializes in colin. Yeah, 710 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: he specializes in like colin, the exact doctor to deal 711 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,839 Speaker 1: with this. So I talked, I talked about this um 712 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: and he said he said he's heard of this caitatient 713 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 1: excuse before, but he too and he and his and 714 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: his colleagues are skeptical and think that the conservation excuse 715 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,359 Speaker 1: is actually bullshit. Sure, he he told me that people 716 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,760 Speaker 1: get pretty creative when they start coming up with excuses 717 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,879 Speaker 1: for things they put in their rectum, like he gave. 718 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: He gave examples as I was doing pull ups over 719 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: a shampoo bottle, or I had an itch, as you know, 720 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: reasons people bullshit for why they find weird things up there. 721 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: But um Sokva says that this is this is probably 722 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: probably a sex thing, and he doesn't he he could 723 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: not find any basis for this folk remedy. Like he 724 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,359 Speaker 1: he cannot like see where this idea actually comes from. 725 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,439 Speaker 1: He talked to like to like Chinese doctor of friends 726 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 1: of his and like like you know, like this isn't 727 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,879 Speaker 1: a thing, Like we don't know where this this isn't 728 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:52,880 Speaker 1: actually a thing. Um and like from my cursory examination, um, 729 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 1: eel and more broadly, like tentacle stuff is generally more 730 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,759 Speaker 1: popular in Asia and Japan and China than is in 731 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,680 Speaker 1: this states. Generally, UM, I mean it's there is definitely 732 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: its own thing here, but a lot of that also 733 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,440 Speaker 1: does come from anime. Most of most of the tentacle 734 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 1: stuff is is around anime. UM and so I also, 735 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,360 Speaker 1: I'll talk with our friend Chris about this, and and 736 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: and and we surmised that the reason why this may 737 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,800 Speaker 1: be way more common in the Guangdong and Eastern Chinese 738 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: provinces is because those two areas produce an absurd amount 739 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: of the world's eel exports um. And then the amount 740 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 1: of el exports have been rapidly increasing over the past 741 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,279 Speaker 1: twenty years, which means the people in those provinces have 742 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,279 Speaker 1: eels just around like way and like they're they're way 743 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: more common and way more easily accessible than anywhere else 744 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,360 Speaker 1: in the world. Basically, so like you can actually a 745 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: lot cheaper than whatever eel based sex toys you're about 746 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 1: to suggest, Garrison being absolutely thinking people a lot of 747 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: pay money when there's free eels lying around to get 748 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: get off with, because like, because the other thing is, 749 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,320 Speaker 1: it's like I've I've tried to really find all references 750 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,280 Speaker 1: to like this oak remedy folklore method of current constipation, 751 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: and it only tracks back to this to one article 752 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: um and anything before that, like and and the and 753 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 1: the one to US and three incident as well. But 754 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: but that's but that's it. There's no other there's really 755 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,400 Speaker 1: no other basis for their actually being a focal origin. 756 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: So like if if if any, if any listeners are 757 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,799 Speaker 1: have a knowledge of this tracking back before two US 758 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,600 Speaker 1: and three, please please let me know, because I've tried looking. 759 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: I've spent days, days, days looking for information about about 760 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 1: eel anal constipation cures pre twenty pre to US and 761 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,640 Speaker 1: three and preen and it's it's just I can't find anything. 762 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,280 Speaker 1: Um so and and and doctors in China also agree 763 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: with this assessment. I'm going to read this is one 764 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: one final thing I'm gonna be looking at there. There 765 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,920 Speaker 1: is one study from from from China looking at the 766 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 1: UH that the eel anus phenomenon. So they didn't they 767 00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: did an actual study on this because they kept being 768 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,400 Speaker 1: a problem um self. Introduction of an eel into the 769 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 1: anist causing colonic perforation is uncommon, but when it occurs, 770 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:08,840 Speaker 1: the reason may be due to a biz our belief, 771 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:13,000 Speaker 1: an inadvert sexual behavior, or a criminal assault. The situation 772 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: is more common in men about about four to one 773 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 1: um and once a live eels inserted into the colon, 774 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 1: it will bite through the wall of the colon, migrating 775 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 1: into the abdom abdominal cavity through perforation, resulting in an 776 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: accidental opportunistic human pathogen similar to the vibrio vole if 777 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:37,279 Speaker 1: Nicklas infection COOL. Diagnosing a clonic form body can be 778 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: challenging because patients often deny the insertion. They may have 779 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,279 Speaker 1: obscure anal pain, mucous discharge lacks anal tone, and fresh 780 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,800 Speaker 1: bleeding from the rectum. Man just an incredible number of 781 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,800 Speaker 1: of banded names in that sentence you just said. The 782 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,959 Speaker 1: most common presenting clinical features of calonic perforation are para 783 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: tonal irritation with rebound tenderness and rigidity of the abdomen, 784 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: accompanied by fever and rapid heartbeat. These features should raise 785 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,840 Speaker 1: the suspicion of a presence of a clonic foreign body playing. 786 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,600 Speaker 1: Radio graphs are useful in diagnosing the perforations. However, a 787 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,400 Speaker 1: ct S can is recommended if the findings are not 788 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 1: definitive or if the presence of a foreign body cannot 789 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 1: be ruled in or out by radio graphs alone. So 790 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: so yeah, this is this is how we get from 791 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: putting horse putting eels up horses butts to make them 792 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,000 Speaker 1: seem younger and carry their tail high. And well, two 793 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 1: people dying and almost dying from eels eating their insides 794 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: because you saw it in a porn video. But I 795 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,239 Speaker 1: just I really do love the like the actual like 796 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,720 Speaker 1: linguistic pathway of feeding and then feeding changing from eels 797 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,480 Speaker 1: to ginger, then the ginger thing changing from feeding to 798 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,879 Speaker 1: figging for sex, and then going back to eels. It's 799 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,959 Speaker 1: like full circle. It's just just beautiful, the beauty of life. 800 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,239 Speaker 1: It's like poetry at rhymes. Yeah, exactly, It's amazing how 801 00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: it just a complete full circle moment of starting with 802 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 1: eels with with figging, and ending with eels with figging. Um. 803 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,680 Speaker 1: I love the human language. Humans are great, except for 804 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,120 Speaker 1: all the horrible things that we do. This is again, 805 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 1: we probably shouldn't be doing this as like a global 806 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,439 Speaker 1: pandemic and wasting hospital space because you keep shoving eels 807 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,719 Speaker 1: up your butt like a lot of these were like 808 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:25,279 Speaker 1: three three of these were like guys in the recommendation. Officially, no, 809 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:31,080 Speaker 1: stop stop doing it. You can buy then, you can 810 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:35,680 Speaker 1: buy toys. You can buy toys that do the same thing. Respect. 811 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,920 Speaker 1: Eels can't consent backtfully, Robert, shut the fuck up. The 812 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 1: eels can't consent. The eels can listen to listen to Garrison. 813 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: Do not listen to Robert. That this actually does bring 814 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:53,719 Speaker 1: us full circle, because what is perfectly safe and what 815 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:58,160 Speaker 1: is perfectly ethical is using ethically slaughtered horse and ethically 816 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 1: fished eels to make an eel horse. I mean it 817 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 1: is more ethical. It is more ethical than shoving an 818 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,920 Speaker 1: eel up your friends. But as they are asleep and 819 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,360 Speaker 1: then and then them dying, that is true. So anyway, 820 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,799 Speaker 1: that that is the ballad of eel horse and how 821 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:16,760 Speaker 1: we get from eel horse to our modern eel anal epidemic. Perfect, 822 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,719 Speaker 1: perfect lineage, just amazing lineage. Ah. If you're out there 823 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,200 Speaker 1: and you've got a horse that's about to die of 824 00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 1: natural causes, we want to put eels in it and 825 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:30,440 Speaker 1: cook it. God, so hit us up. I would like 826 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 1: to be excluded from this narrative, but it is. It's 827 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 1: cool toon media. I hurt media dot com, cool zone 828 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,320 Speaker 1: media at I heart media dot com. Find hob horribly 829 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,040 Speaker 1: horribly dame. If you if you've got a lion on 830 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,080 Speaker 1: a significant quantity of raw eels, we might, we might, 831 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: we might need that too, But I think I can 832 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,399 Speaker 1: probably I'm gonna leave. I'm gonna I'm gonna, well, you're 833 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,879 Speaker 1: going to cook the eel horse with me, Garrison. That's 834 00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,120 Speaker 1: going to happen when we finally get the horse and 835 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,320 Speaker 1: the eels. Can I just say, can I just say, Garrison, 836 00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:04,759 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry that I'm sorry. I had to 837 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,320 Speaker 1: watch so many of these videos, to watch many of 838 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:12,319 Speaker 1: those videos to surely academic, purely academic. In fairness, absolutely 839 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:17,880 Speaker 1: no one asked you to do this. No one ever 840 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:23,920 Speaker 1: would have asked you to do this. We're asking you, 841 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 1: the listener at home, to check us out wherever podcasts 842 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:35,800 Speaker 1: find the Bastards happened here, that happened here, pod I 843 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,000 Speaker 1: wrote a book called After the Revolution. Maybe the sequel 844 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,520 Speaker 1: will include an eel horse. If it's tasty, maybe that's 845 00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 1: the future of food. There's no way to know. I 846 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,080 Speaker 1: do like that this is. I know we've covered a 847 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,800 Speaker 1: lot of darker topics on Behind the Bastards more recently, 848 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:49,279 Speaker 1: and I do like this is. This is a very 849 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 1: nice light light beacon. And like the Bastards totem Pole, 850 00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,840 Speaker 1: we are pretty pretty low relatively means still, it's like 851 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,840 Speaker 1: Phoenix programs, pretty high, but like but like the like 852 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,680 Speaker 1: the horse salesman thing, they're they're pretty bad, but they're 853 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,239 Speaker 1: on the lower end. I mean, it is there. They're 854 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,759 Speaker 1: like they're they're they're they're on the lower end of bastards. 855 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,759 Speaker 1: So I do like to have a bit of a 856 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,200 Speaker 1: lighter presence in this in this episode. So you're welcome 857 00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 1: for that. Um and yep, I'm done talking about this topic. 858 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,439 Speaker 1: Come over, Garrison, I'm gonna cook crocodile tonight. I found 859 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,000 Speaker 1: a place that will say I am, I am coming, 860 00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:32,840 Speaker 1: I'm coming right over actually in bye bye, Hey everybody, 861 00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,000 Speaker 1: wanted to record a note. Some people on the subcredit 862 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,840 Speaker 1: got quite frustrated about some of the claims about the 863 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 1: Phoenix program um. They pointed out and ask Historians thread, 864 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:49,040 Speaker 1: which doesn't put any shade on the specific claims made 865 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,000 Speaker 1: by the author Douglas Valentine's about the eels and whatnot, 866 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,319 Speaker 1: but does generally have issues with his sourcing. At least 867 00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,680 Speaker 1: one of his sources was one of the guy that's 868 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,960 Speaker 1: very common when you're talking about Vietnam, which was like 869 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,840 Speaker 1: some dude who pretended to have done something that he 870 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,440 Speaker 1: hadn't or to have had a position that he hadn't. 871 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,279 Speaker 1: You find this a lot on like both sides of 872 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,359 Speaker 1: the war crimes discussion. I wanted to know that Number One, 873 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,439 Speaker 1: I'm not entirely convinced by that Asked Historians thread, because 874 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,880 Speaker 1: it's just a guy talking about you know why he 875 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,760 Speaker 1: doesn't think this is a particularly credible and that thread 876 00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,640 Speaker 1: he talks about. One of his justifications is that like 877 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,600 Speaker 1: eliminating insurgent infrastructure at a ground levels of basic counterinsurgency 878 00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,400 Speaker 1: tactic um, which yeah, it is a basic counterinsurgency tactic. 879 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,759 Speaker 1: Counterinsurgency operations nearly always involved significant war crimes UM, and 880 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,280 Speaker 1: you can see that no matter who is doing the counterinsurgency, 881 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 1: whether it's Kenya or Afghanistan with the Russians, you know 882 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:47,839 Speaker 1: it's it's it's war crimes are part and parcel of counterinsurgency. UM. 883 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:54,120 Speaker 1: The mess is kind of one of the reasons why 884 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,839 Speaker 1: we don't generally delve into this territory too much without 885 00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,719 Speaker 1: doing it in a dedicated episode is that when you're 886 00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,360 Speaker 1: talking about like crimes against humanity, specifically once the CIA 887 00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,000 Speaker 1: was involved in UM, you've got a couple of different sources. 888 00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,640 Speaker 1: Some of them are going to be declassified documents, which 889 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:10,560 Speaker 1: you know, in a lot of cases you actually do have. 890 00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,080 Speaker 1: Here's the CIA talking about fucked up ship they did, 891 00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,719 Speaker 1: but a lot of information was destroyed, a lot of 892 00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,360 Speaker 1: stuff never got written down. And so a lot of 893 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,360 Speaker 1: times when you're talking about war crimes in a variety 894 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:23,560 Speaker 1: of countries, you're getting human sources. Some of those will 895 00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:26,399 Speaker 1: be victims, some of those will be guys who were 896 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,040 Speaker 1: in the CIA or who were in another military branch 897 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,160 Speaker 1: and who there's always different kind of levels of credibility 898 00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:36,759 Speaker 1: and kind of shortcomings and inconsistencies in their stories, and 899 00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,800 Speaker 1: it's all sort of complicated by the fact that debate 900 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,960 Speaker 1: over US war crimes in Vietnam within the United States 901 00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,120 Speaker 1: is incredibly political. Um. You can look at this when 902 00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,520 Speaker 1: you're just trying to determine the actual body count, right 903 00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 1: there's a massive ongoing debate about how many civilians were 904 00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,279 Speaker 1: killed specifically and how many civilians were killed by the 905 00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,719 Speaker 1: United States, but just how many died in general in 906 00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:01,240 Speaker 1: Vietnam and Cambodia UM. And you can find historians arguing 907 00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:05,160 Speaker 1: at nauseum about this. UM. One of the big debates 908 00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,120 Speaker 1: with a lot of the kind of ground level war crimes, 909 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,880 Speaker 1: because on any objective level, majority of war crimes the 910 00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,239 Speaker 1: US is responsible in Vietnam were committed from the air. 911 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,759 Speaker 1: But when you're talking about ground level war crimes like 912 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,359 Speaker 1: we were talking about here, you'll run into a couple 913 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,400 Speaker 1: of different books, Nick terss Kill Anything That Moves and 914 00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,120 Speaker 1: Gary Kulik's War Stories, And these are very opposed books. 915 00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,719 Speaker 1: And you can find a lot of criticism about terse 916 00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:32,320 Speaker 1: his book um in online by historians. Uh Kulik is 917 00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,520 Speaker 1: who's critical of ters is generally seen as more credible. 918 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,600 Speaker 1: Kulik was also a U S soldier in Vietnam, um. 919 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:43,719 Speaker 1: And again so you're there's always this tremendous amount of 920 00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,440 Speaker 1: bias kind of no matter where you you come at 921 00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,000 Speaker 1: it from. And other people will point out that a 922 00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,239 Speaker 1: lot of the early like push to talk about US 923 00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,200 Speaker 1: war crimes in Vietnam was funded by Hanoi, which you 924 00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,320 Speaker 1: can say, yeah, and of course they have an agenda, 925 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,480 Speaker 1: but also but yeah, they were also the victims of 926 00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,560 Speaker 1: a lot of war crimes. So this is just I 927 00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,040 Speaker 1: don't know, um. I this is not a case where 928 00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,680 Speaker 1: I feel like we necessarily got something wrong, um, because 929 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,680 Speaker 1: I'm not convinced that the Douglas Valentine book is wrong, 930 00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,600 Speaker 1: especially based on the evidence that we have. But it 931 00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:14,800 Speaker 1: is worth noting that there is a tremendous amount of 932 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,160 Speaker 1: debate over all of this, and as a general rule, 933 00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,600 Speaker 1: when we delve into stuff like this, UM, we will 934 00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,680 Speaker 1: try to make sure that it's in a thing focused 935 00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,920 Speaker 1: on that so that we can actually cover the swath 936 00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:32,040 Speaker 1: of historiography on the subject, rather than kind of um, 937 00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,000 Speaker 1: pass over a little bit of it, um and then 938 00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,200 Speaker 1: lead people to think that, Okay, well what about this, 939 00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,239 Speaker 1: what about this argument, what about that argument? Um? This 940 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:44,080 Speaker 1: is all incredibly political history. So that's uh what you 941 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:44,319 Speaker 1: get