WEBVTT - The Matewan Massacre 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:03.760 Hey, everybody, we're coming to the Pacific Northwest. So if 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.000 you live in that area or can get on a 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:07.840 plane to go to that area, or a boat or 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.320 snowshoe whatever, we'll see you at the end of January. 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:14.160 That's right, brand new show, brand new topic. We don't 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.200 even know what it is yet, but we'll be in Seattle, 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.640 Washington on January twenty fourth, Portland on January twenty fifth, 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:24.440 and then our annual trip to San Francisco's Sketch Fest 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.800 on January twenty sixth in Seattle. We're counting on you. 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:29.880 We're at the Paramount this year and that's a lot 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:31.760 of seats, so we need a lot of your lovely 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:32.800 faces in the audience. 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.880 Yes, So get THEE two stuff youshould Know dot com 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.240 and click on the tour button to get all your facts. 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.440 Or you can go to link tree slash sysk and 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:43.839 get the same links and the same facts and we'll 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:46.040 see you guys in January. We can't wait. 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:54.000 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:59.920 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and Chuck's 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:03.160 two and Jerry's here too, and we're here in solidarity 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:07.479 together the trio of us ready to put up our dukes. 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.520 In this episode of stuff you should know the trie 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:16.399 ipis sure, I said, trio right, yeah, okay, you were 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:18.160 just messing around, your horsing around. 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:19.320 I was running with it. 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:21.160 How are you doing? 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:22.800 I'm good. 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:26.840 Quick shout out to the city of Mexico City, by 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:28.319 the way. I meant to mention it the other day 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.160 when we recorded, but I know there's someplace you've been, 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:33.200 and Jerry's been. I finally, Emily and I made our 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:38.520 first trip, and as you know, I can verify Mexico 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:39.880 City is amazing. 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:41.839 It's a pretty cool town. For sure. 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:43.080 Boy. 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.800 I feel really at home there, you do, I do. 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:48.600 I feel very at ease. I was just like, this 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.320 is I don't know, I don't know if it's a 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:53.520 past life thing or what. That's what I was going 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.760 to be, but I was like, this is like a 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.120 New York in a tropical forest. I loved every bit 0:01:59.160 --> 0:01:59.520 of it. 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.880 Asked Life, you were Diego Rivera, but not the famous one, 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:04.320 just another Diego. 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.200 Rivera, another big, old fat guy. 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.200 We did go to Frida's house, which was a lifelong 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.680 dream for both of us, but really for Emily so 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.239 that was amazing, and that's great, just all kinds of 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:21.880 great stuff. So that and that's it. I can't wait 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:22.720 to go back. 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.080 Way to shout out a city right out of the gate. 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:31.120 That's right. And this was my idea. And I don't know. 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.040 It may have been at the Bonnie Prince Billy shows 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:36.560 that I went to in Arizona. We may have been 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:40.799 talking about the fact that Will Oldham as a teenager 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:44.320 was in the John Sales movie Mate Wan. And I 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:46.280 think that's where it came to me because I saw 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.720 that movie back then and have not seen it since then. 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:52.959 But I was like, hey, that sounds a good, good 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.040 topic to chew one man. 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.360 He was all over the place John Sales. Yeah, he 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.400 wrote and directed Mate Wan. He wrote and directed Brother 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.000 from Another Planet. Like he whatever interested him, he just did. 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:05.840 Yeah. 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.440 He was also a writer for hire, like he wrote 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.640 as great at Indie Genius as John Sales is. He 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.080 wrote the Piranha movie. Oh yeah, I think I knew that, 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:18.640 and a couple of other like writer for Higher Things. 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:20.480 But yeah, I always been a big John Sales guy. 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:22.120 And mate one is awesome. I kind of want to 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.840 check it out after I know more about it now. 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.280 Yeah. He wrote a lot of episodes of Spencer for 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:28.079 Hire two. 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:30.919 And BJ and the Verar yep. 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.000 So, uh yeah, that's I'm glad you said mate one 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.320 because I had never heard that word out loud before, 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.640 and I looked it up and I heard one. Yes, 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:47.520 I heard a residence say mate wan, and I immediately 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:49.560 came up with a great mnemonic device for it. 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.360 You ready, oh boy, if. 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.680 You want to remember how to pronounce mate wan, it's 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.920 a small small town in southern West Virginia. 0:03:58.320 --> 0:03:59.000 Uh huh. 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.480 You just say, hey, who's that guy from West Virginia 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.680 over there? You say, who him? That's my mate? Twan 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:12.360 works like a charm. I am here to tell you Twan. Yeah, 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.720 you could say wan, but I think Twan has a 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.680 greater ring to it to really drive home how to remember. 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:19.599 It, mate Twan? 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.919 Okay, sure, although you would say mate one. 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:29.440 Is that Josh Clark's fin maybe one? That's it. I 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:29.840 love it. 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.080 I want to see how quickly I could derail things 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:33.400 this early in the episode. 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.920 Well, I mean I talked about Mexico City forgetting us sakes. 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:40.440 So we are talking about Maye Wan and I didn't 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:42.560 know much about it. Again, I saw the word before 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.600 I knew it was kind of a thing, But specifically 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:47.800 the Battle of maye Wan is what we're kind of 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.960 talking about, although that's just one kind of island in 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:56.040 the archipelago of incidents that took place in southern Appalachia, 0:04:56.240 --> 0:05:00.720 southern West Virginia, and coal mining country just across the 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.520 river from Kentucky and right near its border with Virginia 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.880 as well. And all the events were about to talk 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.720 about took place in the early twentieth century. And I 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.240 knew nothing about any of this until we started researching 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.120 this episode. So kudos to you because this is a 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:22.360 pretty interesting chapter in not just American history or even 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.600 West Virginia history, but labor Union history as well. 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.359 Yeah, for sure. And this was Olivia jam and she 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.360 did a great job. One thing I'm sure you knew 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.480 before we started this is that West Virginia and coal 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:44.040 have always been linked. And as Cole went, the history 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:48.480 of America has gone because of that robust by two 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.000 minus coal industry that has been around there since geez, 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.440 probably like the mid nineteenth century. You know, it allowed 0:05:55.480 --> 0:06:00.800 America to grow not only you know, with their factories 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.159 and railroads and things, but just people and heating homes 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:05.520 and businesses and that kind of thing. 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.200 Yeah, because you can get some hot hot heat from coal, 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.360 hot hot heat, and you don't get quite as much 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.279 from wood from what I understand, So just right there, 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.520 you have more energy at your fingertips. Plus also I 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:21.160 didn't realize this, but I saw it somewhere that it 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:24.400 also kept cities from having to cut down all of 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.599 the forests around them and rely on that wood. Right, 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.239 It just makes it. It was just a better way 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:35.640 to grow as an industrializing country. And so because America 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:39.960 was you know, booming thanks to coal, I think people 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.960 just kind of assumed, like, the coal miners are probably 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:47.120 doing great. They must be richer than astronauts for mining 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:51.679 this stuff that's become so valuable. Coal companies were, Yes, 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.600 And the problem is all of these events came from 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:59.479 would have been totally avoided probably had the coal companies 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:05.160 shared in the wealth less sentially. Yeah, but that's the 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:10.520 continuing story of you know, the world right Sadly. Yes, 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:12.400 I don't know how long that's going to go on for. 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:14.520 I don't think it's it has to be the way, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.720 but yes, that is so far the story of capitalism. 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.360 Yeah, but you know, it was it was a pretty 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.280 brutal existence as a miner back then. I mean, it's 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.640 still a very very tough job. There are still dangers 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:29.600 to be had, even though they've you know, cleaned it 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.520 up quite a bit, but it's nothing like it was 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:36.760 back then. It was dozens of miners died every year. 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:41.440 There were all kinds of accidents all the time, big 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.600 big events where hundreds of people die, and a single 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:49.440 disaster or just you know, the daily work of dying 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:52.800 on the job or dying you know because you just 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.200 do that job and you breathe in that air, that. 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:56.680 Kind of thing. 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.720 And to add insult to injury, and a lot of 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:05.000 these owns, the coal companies sort of ran everything, you know. 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.200 Sometimes they owned the houses that the people that worked 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.320 there lived in. Sometimes they owned all the businesses in town. 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:17.440 Sometimes they ran the law offices there legal offices, but 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.960 you know, the cherff's department and police and stuff like that. 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:24.280 So it was a sort of a monopolistic control in 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:25.600 a lot of these towns. 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.920 Yeah, and even when they whether or not they had 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.200 the local sheriff for constable in their pocket, they also 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:37.720 found out that they could really supplement their hold their 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.920 grip over their workers by hiring private police forces, as 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.280 we'll see. Yeah, and they. 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.600 Were really always a great idea, the private police force, 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:46.720 that's exactly. 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.360 Yeah, for sure, and they were really deliberate about keeping 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.680 their workers from unionizing. A good example of that that 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.800 Olivia turned up there was a mine owner named Justice Collins, 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.079 and he I don't want to say caught, because I'm 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:03.320 sure he really didn't care whether you heard this or not, 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.119 but he was basically saying, you want to keep a 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:11.160 quote judicious mixture of men as workers from groups like 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:16.240 European immigrants, the Appalachian folk that have lived here for generations, 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:21.920 and then black Southerners, I guess, deasperating from the Jim 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.960 Crow South in search of better lives who are showing 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.640 up in the area. You want some of each, because 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.240 these people don't naturally necessarily get along, and you can 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.520 make it, you can ensure it even further that they're 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.679 not going to get along by paying some better than 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.000 others for the same exact work. That really keeps people 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.880 from getting along very well. And so if you've got 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:46.280 groups of workers who aren't really interacting because they don't 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:50.720 really mix well together, they're probably not going to be 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.640 able to successfully form a labor union. 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:58.240 Yeah, but as we will see in many cases, the union, 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:01.679 in fact, it worked the opposite way, and they brought 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.320 together people of different ethnicities in a way that was 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:07.560 not common at all at the time as a whole. 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.880 You know, no, it's true. And I saw there's a 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:14.040 great Smithsonian article about all this, and the historian they 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.360 talked to was saying, I don't want to paint the 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.320 picture like I think. He said everyone was just holding 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:24.760 hands around the campfire. But they came together in ways 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:29.600 that were just unseen outside of this area, outside of 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:34.280 the mining industry, outside of the mining unions, and they 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.320 did probably get along better than people and other unions, 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:40.880 black and white workers and other unions, just because they integrated. 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:44.480 There's a really great scene that happened at one of 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:49.120 the mine cafeterias during one of these strikes. Black and 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.959 white workers held the cafeteria workers at gunpoint until they 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:58.040 were seated together eating in an integrated cafeteria room, like 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.760 they integrated themselves at gunpoint, essentially. 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:01.800 Amazing. 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:02.920 Yeah, it was pretty cool. 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.840 So the union did get going, although you know, as 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:10.520 we'll see as this story goes not quite yet in 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:15.079 mate Wan in what county was that again, Mingo County? 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.320 Yeah, I have a great mnemonic device for that, do 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.200 you really, oh man. 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.480 So the union did get going in other parts of 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.319 the country sort of late in the nineteenth century. The 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.560 United Mine Workers of America was founded in eighteen ninety, 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.280 and it was a real as far as unions go 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.800 at the time. It was a real all encompassing union 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:39.000 in that there were other unions around that sort of 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.160 you know, if you're like a smithy or you had 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:46.000 some really skilled specific craft, you might be represented, but 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.839 they may not represent you know, black workers, Chinese immigrants, 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.640 stuff like that. But the Miners Union kind of from 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.320 the beginning was like, you know what, we're stronger with 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.640 more people. We're going to represent all the miners who 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.480 wanted to jump on board. And they realized that, you know, 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:07.320 strikes were early on a real and you know still 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.520 today a real big way that you can make change. 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.640 But they were bloody affairs back then. 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.840 Oh yeah. Like people would get shot and killed on 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.240 both sides. The government forces would show up and sometimes 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:25.640 shoot people like it was a really really violent era 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:29.600 in labor history for sure. Murder it was murder, yeah 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.280 for sure, killing people Yeah for wanting to organize for 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.480 better working conditions and better pay. Yeah, like you could 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:40.199 get you murdered back then. And so the United mind 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.520 Workers of America they kept at it. I think they're 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:45.360 founded in eighteen ninety. Did you say that? 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:47.120 Yeah? Can we call them mamwa? 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.640 Sure? Sure you know how to remember that. 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:51.720 Sure. 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.280 So within seven years they held a strike, a major 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:00.920 strike in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, and it resulted 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:05.480 in an eight hour workday for union miners. The thing 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.560 is is that didn't necessarily spread across across the country, 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:13.160 especially in southern West Virginia, which was almost entirely non 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:17.400 unionized as far as coal miners went, and they, I think, 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.240 from what I understand, is like the biggest pocket of 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:26.800 non union miners in the entire country. So UMWA said, 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:28.880 we need to start trying to make some inroads in 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:30.640 there because there's a lot of people who could use 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.320 our help. And one of the I think the first 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.600 big confrontations that came to be known as the West 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:41.840 Virginia Mine Wars took place in nineteen twelve, and UMWAH 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:46.599 didn't actually bless it I guess is the way to 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.240 say it. So it was considered a wildcat strike. But 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.000 as soon as the strike began and it grew very quickly, 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.440 umwah said we're behind you guys, one hundred percent whatever 0:13:57.480 --> 0:13:57.880 you need. 0:13:58.320 --> 0:13:59.040 Yeah, for sure. 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:03.079 This was the the Paint Creek and Cabin Creek coal 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:08.640 mines in Kanawa County, and they struck. And these people 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.679 will really factor in here in a second to the 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.680 mate Wan affair. But the Baldwin Feltz Detective Agency, which 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.120 will tell you all about here in a sec They 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.440 were hired to come in, these sort of hired quote 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.720 unquote guards also known as thugs if you were one 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.960 of the unionists. They came in and had literal machine 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:33.400 guns and shot up the homes of miners when their 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:37.040 family was were there. These miners, I mean they called 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.440 them wars for a reason. These miners were heavily armed. 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.960 They fought back, and the governor at the time, the 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:49.600 Venerable William ME Glascock, came in, declared martial law and 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.280 sent in the state militia to break this strike up, 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:54.800 and a couple of hundred and it wasn't just you know, 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:56.440 throwing all the union leaders in jail. 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.720 They were I think some of the. 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.640 Some of the Baldwin Feltz people went to jail, but 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:07.040 it was mainly strikers and union leaders that were sort 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.960 of under the thumb of Glasscock at the time. So 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.680 Mother Jones, which by the way, I think Mother Jones 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.800 should be a total topic that the person, not the magazine. 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:19.080 Sure or both. 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.320 We'll talk well, we'll talk about the magazine a little bit. 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:23.680 You have to, right, because like you could do an 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.200 episode on People of the World that you'd have to 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.000 talk about the magazine. 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.200 Yeah, for sure, or anytime we talk about us, we 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.120 should probably active a nod to that magazine team. 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:36.960 Mother Jones was arrested though, along with a lot of 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:42.840 the leaders and strikers. They had military tribunals and this 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.600 sort of closed that the first chapter of the West 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.360 Virginia Wars because World War Two came along and distracted 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.400 everybody for a while. But things would kind of kick 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.120 back into action in nineteen twenty. 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:59.840 Yeah, and the Paint Creek Cabin Creek Striker War followed 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:04.720 a pattern that would would become pretty regular. The miners 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.280 would stop working, go on strike. The company would send 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.440 in goons to come evict them from their company homes 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.520 without any kind of warrant or anything like that. The 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.880 families of the people evicted from those company homes would 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.720 set up a tent city. The goons that the mine 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.600 operators employed would go attack the tent city that would 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:26.720 be a site too far for the miners. They would 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:31.520 rise up armed and a real bloody clash would begin, 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.920 and then the state or federal government would send in 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:39.640 essentially troops to quell this uprising, and then the organizers 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:45.880 would be unfairly arrested, often again without warrants, and tried 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.360 and held, and then eventually things would kind of subside 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.720 for a little while. That was the pattern that was, 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.360 if not established there, it certainly was followed by all 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:56.800 of the wars after that one. 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:02.200 Yeah. Absolutely, we take a break, Yeah, I think we should. 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:04.240 All right, we'll be right back. 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.119 So we promised to talk a little bit more about 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:31.440 this company that figures into the maeite Wan affair or 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.479 the mate Wan I mean, there's a lot of different 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.000 names the war, the Battle at mate wand stuff like that. 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.840 The Baldwin Feltz Detective Agency, So this was eighteen ninety two. 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.600 They were founded by a guy named William G. Baldwin 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.879 in Roanoke, Virginia, and a year later he hired a 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.960 guy named Thomas Feltz to run the place with him. 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.800 So it was the Baldwin Felts Agency, and they were 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.000 modeled very much after the Pinkerton Agency in that they 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.840 they were hired as sort of at first before they 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:04.959 were even though they had a feeling they were going 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.680 to get into union busting like Binkerton did. At first, 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:09.639 they were one of those private police forces you were 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.360 talking about, and they were charged depending on where they 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.280 were and what town they were in, with everything from 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:21.040 kicking hoboes off trains or killing hoboes that were on trains, 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.320 to sort of supplementing local police forces when they were 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:31.359 small towns, to eradicating what they call black crime in 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.520 the South, like really sort of casting an on black 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.320 people in the South and going after them. And they were, 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.240 you know, they were thugs. They were the guys that 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:44.520 they hired were Their backgrounds were pretty rough and tumble, 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.200 and they would use any means necessary to do what 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:48.800 they wanted to do. They kind of had free reign 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:49.639 to do what they wanted. 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.119 Yeah. Part of the reason why is because again a 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.800 lot of these towns were quite literally run by the 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.639 mining company. So if the mining company brought in an 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:05.000 outside police force, the actual police force would work with them. 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:07.200 At the very least, the courts would turn a blind 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.320 eye or they just couldn't get arrested. And there were 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.960 a lot of murders, like in broad daylight that happened 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:16.439 during this time, that these private police force detectives I 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.840 guess carried out and just were not even arrested for. 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.959 So it was really lopsided. If you were a minor. 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.000 Not only did this company like basically own you, but 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:29.720 if you got out the line, there was a chance 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:31.720 that you or your family were going to be beaten 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:37.840 in or killed. So as the as the Umwa also 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.280 known as Umwah really started to try to make inroads 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.720 into southern West Virginia to organize this largest pocket of 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:50.760 non union miners, the coal mine operators pushed back by 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:56.200 hiring more and more private police forces, especially the Baldwin 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.560 Felts Detective Agency. They became not the only one, but 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:03.680 probably the most prominent in southern West Virginia as far 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.239 as the the amount of work they got and then 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.520 the dirtiness that they got their hands into. 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:12.280 Yeah, and they, I mean they were called the Pinkerton 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.240 in the South. They were very effective at least at 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:19.160 first because I think between over like an eight year 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.879 period at the turn of the century at the end 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:26.360 of the last century, they prevented these unions from organizing 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.520 in West Virginia, and you know, I think there were 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:33.520 some strikes that happened and they kept West Virginia out 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.480 of it. So they were successful for a while at least. 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:40.120 Like you said, they would beat up organizers. If you're 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.960 pro union, you know, you might get kicked out of 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.280 your house. You might have your house burned down. They 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:50.320 place moles, they play spies among the miners and also 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:53.560 just in town. As we'll soon see, they had one 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:56.800 guy open up a restaurant a spy in mate Wine, 0:20:57.280 --> 0:21:00.719 and we'll meet him later as well. But it was 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:04.760 I think it was the Paint Creek and Cabin Creek 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.960 strikes that we talked about a few minutes ago, where 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:10.800 all of these guards came in hundreds of these dudes 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.160 killed up a bunch of people. The same thing happened 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:16.800 in Colorado in nineteen fourteen and what was called the 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:21.720 Ludlow massacre, where eleven literal children were killed because sometimes 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.800 these miners were kids, like you know, I don't know 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:26.280 how young they got, but they were children. 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:28.880 These kids that were killed weren't even miners, they were 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:32.600 miners children. So they were really like not they were 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:34.480 really out of bounds. And the fact that eleven of 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:38.960 them were killed because the Baldwin Felts detectives came and 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.120 burned the tent city down that they were living in, 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:45.720 that was it that really caught the nation's attention as well, 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:48.560 and it gave a really terrible name to the Baldwin 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.440 Felts Detective Agency, which they managed to trade on very 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:53.320 heavily in southern West Virginia. 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:56.439 Yeah, in tent city because they were kicked out of 0:21:56.480 --> 0:22:00.119 the homes that were owned by the mining companies exactly. 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:02.879 So not only did that whole process take place in 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.920 southern West Virginia, it also happened in Colorado too. That's 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:07.640 just what happened. You got kicked out of your home, 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.080 you go set up a tent city, and then imagine 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.960 setting up a tent city that's nowhere near the miner's 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.800 land or the mine company's land, and yet the mine 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:19.960 company still comes and burns your tent city down because 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:23.040