1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, we're coming to the Pacific Northwest. So if 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: you live in that area or can get on a 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: plane to go to that area, or a boat or 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: snowshoe whatever, we'll see you at the end of January. 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 2: That's right, brand new show, brand new topic. We don't 6 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: even know what it is yet, but we'll be in Seattle, 7 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 2: Washington on January twenty fourth, Portland on January twenty fifth, 8 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 2: and then our annual trip to San Francisco's Sketch Fest 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 2: on January twenty sixth in Seattle. We're counting on you. 10 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: We're at the Paramount this year and that's a lot 11 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: of seats, so we need a lot of your lovely 12 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: faces in the audience. 13 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: Yes, So get THEE two stuff youshould Know dot com 14 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: and click on the tour button to get all your facts. 15 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: Or you can go to link tree slash sysk and 16 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: get the same links and the same facts and we'll 17 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: see you guys in January. We can't wait. 18 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 19 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and Chuck's 20 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: two and Jerry's here too, and we're here in solidarity 21 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,479 Speaker 1: together the trio of us ready to put up our dukes. 22 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: In this episode of stuff you should know the trie 23 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: ipis sure, I said, trio right, yeah, okay, you were 24 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: just messing around, your horsing around. 25 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 3: I was running with it. 26 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: How are you doing? 27 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: I'm good. 28 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: Quick shout out to the city of Mexico City, by 29 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 2: the way. I meant to mention it the other day 30 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: when we recorded, but I know there's someplace you've been, 31 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: and Jerry's been. I finally, Emily and I made our 32 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: first trip, and as you know, I can verify Mexico 33 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: City is amazing. 34 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:41,839 Speaker 1: It's a pretty cool town. For sure. 35 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 3: Boy. 36 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 2: I feel really at home there, you do, I do. 37 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 2: I feel very at ease. I was just like, this 38 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: is I don't know, I don't know if it's a 39 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 2: past life thing or what. That's what I was going 40 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: to be, but I was like, this is like a 41 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: New York in a tropical forest. I loved every bit 42 00:01:59,160 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: of it. 43 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: Asked Life, you were Diego Rivera, but not the famous one, 44 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: just another Diego. 45 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 3: Rivera, another big, old fat guy. 46 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: We did go to Frida's house, which was a lifelong 47 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: dream for both of us, but really for Emily so 48 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 2: that was amazing, and that's great, just all kinds of 49 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 2: great stuff. So that and that's it. I can't wait 50 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: to go back. 51 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: Way to shout out a city right out of the gate. 52 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 3: That's right. And this was my idea. And I don't know. 53 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: It may have been at the Bonnie Prince Billy shows 54 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: that I went to in Arizona. We may have been 55 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 2: talking about the fact that Will Oldham as a teenager 56 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: was in the John Sales movie Mate Wan. And I 57 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: think that's where it came to me because I saw 58 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: that movie back then and have not seen it since then. 59 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 2: But I was like, hey, that sounds a good, good 60 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: topic to chew one man. 61 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: He was all over the place John Sales. Yeah, he 62 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: wrote and directed Mate Wan. He wrote and directed Brother 63 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: from Another Planet. Like he whatever interested him, he just did. 64 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 65 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: He was also a writer for hire, like he wrote 66 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 2: as great at Indie Genius as John Sales is. He 67 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 2: wrote the Piranha movie. Oh yeah, I think I knew that, 68 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 2: and a couple of other like writer for Higher Things. 69 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: But yeah, I always been a big John Sales guy. 70 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 2: And mate one is awesome. I kind of want to 71 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 2: check it out after I know more about it now. 72 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. He wrote a lot of episodes of Spencer for 73 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 1: Hire two. 74 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 3: And BJ and the Verar yep. 75 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: So, uh yeah, that's I'm glad you said mate one 76 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: because I had never heard that word out loud before, 77 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: and I looked it up and I heard one. Yes, 78 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: I heard a residence say mate wan, and I immediately 79 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: came up with a great mnemonic device for it. 80 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 3: You ready, oh boy, if. 81 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: You want to remember how to pronounce mate wan, it's 82 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: a small small town in southern West Virginia. 83 00:03:58,320 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 3: Uh huh. 84 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: You just say, hey, who's that guy from West Virginia 85 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: over there? You say, who him? That's my mate? Twan 86 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: works like a charm. I am here to tell you Twan. Yeah, 87 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: you could say wan, but I think Twan has a 88 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: greater ring to it to really drive home how to remember. 89 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 3: It, mate Twan? 90 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: Okay, sure, although you would say mate one. 91 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 3: Is that Josh Clark's fin maybe one? That's it. I 92 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 3: love it. 93 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: I want to see how quickly I could derail things 94 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: this early in the episode. 95 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 3: Well, I mean I talked about Mexico City forgetting us sakes. 96 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: So we are talking about Maye Wan and I didn't 97 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: know much about it. Again, I saw the word before 98 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: I knew it was kind of a thing, But specifically 99 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: the Battle of maye Wan is what we're kind of 100 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: talking about, although that's just one kind of island in 101 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: the archipelago of incidents that took place in southern Appalachia, 102 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: southern West Virginia, and coal mining country just across the 103 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: river from Kentucky and right near its border with Virginia 104 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: as well. And all the events were about to talk 105 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: about took place in the early twentieth century. And I 106 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: knew nothing about any of this until we started researching 107 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: this episode. So kudos to you because this is a 108 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: pretty interesting chapter in not just American history or even 109 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: West Virginia history, but labor Union history as well. 110 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And this was Olivia jam and she 111 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: did a great job. One thing I'm sure you knew 112 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 2: before we started this is that West Virginia and coal 113 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 2: have always been linked. And as Cole went, the history 114 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 2: of America has gone because of that robust by two 115 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 2: minus coal industry that has been around there since geez, 116 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: probably like the mid nineteenth century. You know, it allowed 117 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: America to grow not only you know, with their factories 118 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 2: and railroads and things, but just people and heating homes 119 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: and businesses and that kind of thing. 120 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you can get some hot hot heat from coal, 121 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: hot hot heat, and you don't get quite as much 122 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: from wood from what I understand, So just right there, 123 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: you have more energy at your fingertips. Plus also I 124 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: didn't realize this, but I saw it somewhere that it 125 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: also kept cities from having to cut down all of 126 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: the forests around them and rely on that wood. Right, 127 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 1: It just makes it. It was just a better way 128 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: to grow as an industrializing country. And so because America 129 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: was you know, booming thanks to coal, I think people 130 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: just kind of assumed, like, the coal miners are probably 131 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: doing great. They must be richer than astronauts for mining 132 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,679 Speaker 1: this stuff that's become so valuable. Coal companies were, Yes, 133 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: And the problem is all of these events came from 134 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: would have been totally avoided probably had the coal companies 135 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: shared in the wealth less sentially. Yeah, but that's the 136 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: continuing story of you know, the world right Sadly. Yes, 137 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: I don't know how long that's going to go on for. 138 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: I don't think it's it has to be the way, 139 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: but yes, that is so far the story of capitalism. 140 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, it was it was a pretty 141 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: brutal existence as a miner back then. I mean, it's 142 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 2: still a very very tough job. There are still dangers 143 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 2: to be had, even though they've you know, cleaned it 144 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 2: up quite a bit, but it's nothing like it was 145 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: back then. It was dozens of miners died every year. 146 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 2: There were all kinds of accidents all the time, big 147 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: big events where hundreds of people die, and a single 148 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: disaster or just you know, the daily work of dying 149 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: on the job or dying you know because you just 150 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: do that job and you breathe in that air, that. 151 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 3: Kind of thing. 152 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 2: And to add insult to injury, and a lot of 153 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: these owns, the coal companies sort of ran everything, you know. 154 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: Sometimes they owned the houses that the people that worked 155 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: there lived in. Sometimes they owned all the businesses in town. 156 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: Sometimes they ran the law offices there legal offices, but 157 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: you know, the cherff's department and police and stuff like that. 158 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: So it was a sort of a monopolistic control in 159 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 2: a lot of these towns. 160 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and even when they whether or not they had 161 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: the local sheriff for constable in their pocket, they also 162 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: found out that they could really supplement their hold their 163 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: grip over their workers by hiring private police forces, as 164 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: we'll see. Yeah, and they. 165 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 2: Were really always a great idea, the private police force, 166 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 2: that's exactly. 167 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, and they were really deliberate about keeping 168 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: their workers from unionizing. A good example of that that 169 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: Olivia turned up there was a mine owner named Justice Collins, 170 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: and he I don't want to say caught, because I'm 171 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: sure he really didn't care whether you heard this or not, 172 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,119 Speaker 1: but he was basically saying, you want to keep a 173 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: quote judicious mixture of men as workers from groups like 174 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: European immigrants, the Appalachian folk that have lived here for generations, 175 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: and then black Southerners, I guess, deasperating from the Jim 176 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: Crow South in search of better lives who are showing 177 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: up in the area. You want some of each, because 178 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: these people don't naturally necessarily get along, and you can 179 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: make it, you can ensure it even further that they're 180 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: not going to get along by paying some better than 181 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: others for the same exact work. That really keeps people 182 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: from getting along very well. And so if you've got 183 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: groups of workers who aren't really interacting because they don't 184 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: really mix well together, they're probably not going to be 185 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: able to successfully form a labor union. 186 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, but as we will see in many cases, the union, 187 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 2: in fact, it worked the opposite way, and they brought 188 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: together people of different ethnicities in a way that was 189 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 2: not common at all at the time as a whole. 190 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: You know, no, it's true. And I saw there's a 191 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: great Smithsonian article about all this, and the historian they 192 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: talked to was saying, I don't want to paint the 193 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: picture like I think. He said everyone was just holding 194 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: hands around the campfire. But they came together in ways 195 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: that were just unseen outside of this area, outside of 196 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: the mining industry, outside of the mining unions, and they 197 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: did probably get along better than people and other unions, 198 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: black and white workers and other unions, just because they integrated. 199 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: There's a really great scene that happened at one of 200 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: the mine cafeterias during one of these strikes. Black and 201 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 1: white workers held the cafeteria workers at gunpoint until they 202 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: were seated together eating in an integrated cafeteria room, like 203 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: they integrated themselves at gunpoint, essentially. 204 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 3: Amazing. 205 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was pretty cool. 206 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 2: So the union did get going, although you know, as 207 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: we'll see as this story goes not quite yet in 208 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 2: mate Wan in what county was that again, Mingo County? 209 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a great mnemonic device for that, do 210 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: you really, oh man. 211 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 2: So the union did get going in other parts of 212 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 2: the country sort of late in the nineteenth century. The 213 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: United Mine Workers of America was founded in eighteen ninety, 214 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 2: and it was a real as far as unions go 215 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: at the time. It was a real all encompassing union 216 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: in that there were other unions around that sort of 217 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 2: you know, if you're like a smithy or you had 218 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: some really skilled specific craft, you might be represented, but 219 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 2: they may not represent you know, black workers, Chinese immigrants, 220 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 2: stuff like that. But the Miners Union kind of from 221 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 2: the beginning was like, you know what, we're stronger with 222 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: more people. We're going to represent all the miners who 223 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 2: wanted to jump on board. And they realized that, you know, 224 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 2: strikes were early on a real and you know still 225 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: today a real big way that you can make change. 226 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: But they were bloody affairs back then. 227 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Like people would get shot and killed on 228 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: both sides. The government forces would show up and sometimes 229 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: shoot people like it was a really really violent era 230 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: in labor history for sure. Murder it was murder, yeah 231 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: for sure, killing people Yeah for wanting to organize for 232 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: better working conditions and better pay. Yeah, like you could 233 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 1: get you murdered back then. And so the United mind 234 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: Workers of America they kept at it. I think they're 235 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: founded in eighteen ninety. Did you say that? 236 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 3: Yeah? Can we call them mamwa? 237 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: Sure? Sure you know how to remember that. 238 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 3: Sure. 239 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: So within seven years they held a strike, a major 240 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: strike in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, and it resulted 241 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: in an eight hour workday for union miners. The thing 242 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: is is that didn't necessarily spread across across the country, 243 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: especially in southern West Virginia, which was almost entirely non 244 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: unionized as far as coal miners went, and they, I think, 245 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: from what I understand, is like the biggest pocket of 246 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: non union miners in the entire country. So UMWA said, 247 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: we need to start trying to make some inroads in 248 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: there because there's a lot of people who could use 249 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: our help. And one of the I think the first 250 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: big confrontations that came to be known as the West 251 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: Virginia Mine Wars took place in nineteen twelve, and UMWAH 252 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,599 Speaker 1: didn't actually bless it I guess is the way to 253 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: say it. So it was considered a wildcat strike. But 254 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: as soon as the strike began and it grew very quickly, 255 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: umwah said we're behind you guys, one hundred percent whatever 256 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: you need. 257 00:13:58,320 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. 258 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 2: This was the the Paint Creek and Cabin Creek coal 259 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 2: mines in Kanawa County, and they struck. And these people 260 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 2: will really factor in here in a second to the 261 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 2: mate Wan affair. But the Baldwin Feltz Detective Agency, which 262 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: will tell you all about here in a sec They 263 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: were hired to come in, these sort of hired quote 264 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 2: unquote guards also known as thugs if you were one 265 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: of the unionists. They came in and had literal machine 266 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 2: guns and shot up the homes of miners when their 267 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 2: family was were there. These miners, I mean they called 268 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 2: them wars for a reason. These miners were heavily armed. 269 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 2: They fought back, and the governor at the time, the 270 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: Venerable William ME Glascock, came in, declared martial law and 271 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 2: sent in the state militia to break this strike up, 272 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 2: and a couple of hundred and it wasn't just you know, 273 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 2: throwing all the union leaders in jail. 274 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 3: They were I think some of the. 275 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 2: Some of the Baldwin Feltz people went to jail, but 276 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 2: it was mainly strikers and union leaders that were sort 277 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 2: of under the thumb of Glasscock at the time. So 278 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 2: Mother Jones, which by the way, I think Mother Jones 279 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 2: should be a total topic that the person, not the magazine. 280 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: Sure or both. 281 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 3: We'll talk well, we'll talk about the magazine a little bit. 282 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: You have to, right, because like you could do an 283 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: episode on People of the World that you'd have to 284 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: talk about the magazine. 285 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, or anytime we talk about us, we 286 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: should probably active a nod to that magazine team. 287 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: Mother Jones was arrested though, along with a lot of 288 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 2: the leaders and strikers. They had military tribunals and this 289 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 2: sort of closed that the first chapter of the West 290 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: Virginia Wars because World War Two came along and distracted 291 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: everybody for a while. But things would kind of kick 292 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: back into action in nineteen twenty. 293 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Paint Creek Cabin Creek Striker War followed 294 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: a pattern that would would become pretty regular. The miners 295 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: would stop working, go on strike. The company would send 296 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: in goons to come evict them from their company homes 297 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: without any kind of warrant or anything like that. The 298 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: families of the people evicted from those company homes would 299 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: set up a tent city. The goons that the mine 300 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: operators employed would go attack the tent city that would 301 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: be a site too far for the miners. They would 302 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: rise up armed and a real bloody clash would begin, 303 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: and then the state or federal government would send in 304 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: essentially troops to quell this uprising, and then the organizers 305 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: would be unfairly arrested, often again without warrants, and tried 306 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: and held, and then eventually things would kind of subside 307 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: for a little while. That was the pattern that was, 308 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: if not established there, it certainly was followed by all 309 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: of the wars after that one. 310 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, we take a break, Yeah, I think we should. 311 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 3: All right, we'll be right back. 312 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 2: So we promised to talk a little bit more about 313 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 2: this company that figures into the maeite Wan affair or 314 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,479 Speaker 2: the mate Wan I mean, there's a lot of different 315 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: names the war, the Battle at mate wand stuff like that. 316 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 2: The Baldwin Feltz Detective Agency, So this was eighteen ninety two. 317 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 2: They were founded by a guy named William G. Baldwin 318 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 2: in Roanoke, Virginia, and a year later he hired a 319 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 2: guy named Thomas Feltz to run the place with him. 320 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 2: So it was the Baldwin Felts Agency, and they were 321 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 2: modeled very much after the Pinkerton Agency in that they 322 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: they were hired as sort of at first before they 323 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 2: were even though they had a feeling they were going 324 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 2: to get into union busting like Binkerton did. At first, 325 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 2: they were one of those private police forces you were 326 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,360 Speaker 2: talking about, and they were charged depending on where they 327 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: were and what town they were in, with everything from 328 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 2: kicking hoboes off trains or killing hoboes that were on trains, 329 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: to sort of supplementing local police forces when they were 330 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 2: small towns, to eradicating what they call black crime in 331 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 2: the South, like really sort of casting an on black 332 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 2: people in the South and going after them. And they were, 333 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 2: you know, they were thugs. They were the guys that 334 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 2: they hired were Their backgrounds were pretty rough and tumble, 335 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 2: and they would use any means necessary to do what 336 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 2: they wanted to do. They kind of had free reign 337 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 2: to do what they wanted. 338 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: Yeah. Part of the reason why is because again a 339 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: lot of these towns were quite literally run by the 340 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: mining company. So if the mining company brought in an 341 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: outside police force, the actual police force would work with them. 342 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: At the very least, the courts would turn a blind 343 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: eye or they just couldn't get arrested. And there were 344 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: a lot of murders, like in broad daylight that happened 345 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 1: during this time, that these private police force detectives I 346 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: guess carried out and just were not even arrested for. 347 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 1: So it was really lopsided. If you were a minor. 348 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: Not only did this company like basically own you, but 349 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: if you got out the line, there was a chance 350 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: that you or your family were going to be beaten 351 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: in or killed. So as the as the Umwa also 352 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: known as Umwah really started to try to make inroads 353 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: into southern West Virginia to organize this largest pocket of 354 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: non union miners, the coal mine operators pushed back by 355 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: hiring more and more private police forces, especially the Baldwin 356 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: Felts Detective Agency. They became not the only one, but 357 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: probably the most prominent in southern West Virginia as far 358 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,239 Speaker 1: as the the amount of work they got and then 359 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: the dirtiness that they got their hands into. 360 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they, I mean they were called the Pinkerton 361 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 2: in the South. They were very effective at least at 362 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 2: first because I think between over like an eight year 363 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 2: period at the turn of the century at the end 364 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 2: of the last century, they prevented these unions from organizing 365 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: in West Virginia, and you know, I think there were 366 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 2: some strikes that happened and they kept West Virginia out 367 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 2: of it. So they were successful for a while at least. 368 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 2: Like you said, they would beat up organizers. If you're 369 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 2: pro union, you know, you might get kicked out of 370 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: your house. You might have your house burned down. They 371 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: place moles, they play spies among the miners and also 372 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 2: just in town. As we'll soon see, they had one 373 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 2: guy open up a restaurant a spy in mate Wine, 374 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,719 Speaker 2: and we'll meet him later as well. But it was 375 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 2: I think it was the Paint Creek and Cabin Creek 376 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 2: strikes that we talked about a few minutes ago, where 377 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 2: all of these guards came in hundreds of these dudes 378 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 2: killed up a bunch of people. The same thing happened 379 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 2: in Colorado in nineteen fourteen and what was called the 380 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 2: Ludlow massacre, where eleven literal children were killed because sometimes 381 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 2: these miners were kids, like you know, I don't know 382 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: how young they got, but they were children. 383 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 1: These kids that were killed weren't even miners, they were 384 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: miners children. So they were really like not they were 385 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: really out of bounds. And the fact that eleven of 386 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: them were killed because the Baldwin Felts detectives came and 387 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: burned the tent city down that they were living in, 388 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: that was it that really caught the nation's attention as well, 389 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: and it gave a really terrible name to the Baldwin 390 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: Felts Detective Agency, which they managed to trade on very 391 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: heavily in southern West Virginia. 392 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, in tent city because they were kicked out of 393 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 2: the homes that were owned by the mining companies exactly. 394 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: So not only did that whole process take place in 395 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: southern West Virginia, it also happened in Colorado too. That's 396 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: just what happened. You got kicked out of your home, 397 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: you go set up a tent city, and then imagine 398 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: setting up a tent city that's nowhere near the miner's 399 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: land or the mine company's land, and yet the mine 400 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: company still comes and burns your tent city down because 401 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: you're still trying to organize. It's just some of the 402 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: most important, almost unimaginable acts that just were carried out 403 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: constantly between I guess probably basically the eighteen nineties until 404 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties when Franklin Roosevelt came into power. Like, 405 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: that's just what happened. That's what people did. That was 406 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: the risky ran if you didn't just keep your mouth 407 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: shutting your head down and take whatever abuse they heaped 408 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: on you in the mine as owners. 409 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is only one hundred years ago, 410 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 2: which one hundred years is a long time, but it's 411 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 2: not that long. 412 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: No, it's not. Which actually I mean, like there's still 413 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: plenty of reasons to organized and unionize, and there's still 414 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: plenty of grievances that need to be addressed, but just 415 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: the actual process that happens, it's just we've come quite far, 416 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: at the very least in removing generally violence from that 417 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: kind of process. 418 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So things are heating up in West Virginia. 419 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: End of nineteen nineteen, there's a big Umwah launched a 420 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: nationwide coal strike where they got a big fat raise. 421 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 2: They got a twenty seven percent raise if you were 422 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 2: a mine worker. But again, West Virginia was still almost 423 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 2: completely non union at this point, so they didn't get 424 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 2: the benefits from that, but I get the feeling that 425 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 2: it really sort of rallied them to organize. At the 426 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: same time, UMWAH was really mounting an effort in West Virginia, 427 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 2: so they launched a campaign there in nineteen twenty in 428 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 2: the southern part of the state and McDowell, Logan and 429 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 2: Mingo County, where Mate one is to really get them 430 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 2: together and say, hey, look, we got big fat raises 431 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 2: for people all over the country. Here, you really need 432 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 2: to unionize. And Mate wan was right there in the 433 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 2: middle of Mingo County. I'm sure someone's going to say, actually, 434 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 2: it's to the outside of Mingo County. 435 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: I think it actually is. 436 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 3: Okay, it's just a euphemism, like you know, smack dab 437 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 3: in the middle. 438 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I get you. I'm just saying I was being 439 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: the lone or the masked emailer. 440 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, the well actually person exactly, that's me. Uh no, 441 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 2: it's not you at all, thank you, So mayite one. 442 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 2: You know, we described these towns that were literally kind 443 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 2: of run by the mining companies maye Wan was not 444 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 2: one of them. The mining company did have their fingers 445 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 2: in some operations, but there were like real legit local 446 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 2: businesses owned by locals. There was a real independent sheriff there. 447 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, police chief. His name was Smile and said 448 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 2: hat Field. Of those hat Fields. I think his his 449 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: grandfather the best. It always gets so confusing with me 450 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 2: in genealogy. 451 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: As you know, that was his grandfather devil Ance. 452 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 2: No, his grandfather was half brother of the grandfather, half 453 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 2: brother of devil Ance. 454 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: Oh was that right? I saw he was the direct 455 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: grandson of devil Ance. But okay, he's still he's still 456 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: ken in folk as far as the. 457 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 3: He was one of those Hatfields. 458 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 2: And we did an episode on the Hatfield McCoys if 459 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 2: you want to check that out. 460 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: That was a good one. It was like Appalachian Romeo 461 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: and Juliet story. 462 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, it totally was. But that is to say Sid 463 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 2: Hatfield was not in the pocket. He was a pro 464 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 2: union guy and not in the pocket of the coal companies, 465 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 2: which was kind of unusual. 466 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: He was such a pro union guy he was. He 467 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: stood trial once for blowing up a coal tipple, which 468 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: is the structure that a freight train car drives under 469 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: and gets filled with coal, and it's entirely possible he 470 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: did that. That's how sympathetic he was to the coal 471 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: miner's cause. 472 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, so he was. 473 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: He was the not the sheriff in town. There was 474 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: a sheriff, and I get this the impression that the 475 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: sheriff was a law and order kind of guy. Like 476 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: his His allegiance was to law and order. So you know, 477 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: no matter what side you're on, if you needed his 478 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: protection or you know, the laws being broken, he took 479 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: that seriously. He seemed a little more even keel and 480 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: I can't remember his name. Sid Hatfield was one hundred 481 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 1: percent in the miners camp. And the fact that this 482 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: town existed and it wasn't in the pocket of the 483 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: mine operators is I think the reason why these things 484 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: happened because there was there was a power structure that 485 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: could start to take on these Baldwin Felts detectives who 486 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: were coming to town and causing trouble. 487 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, I think you're totally right. 488 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: Thanks to the law. 489 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 2: The company Inmate one, the mining company was called the 490 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 2: Stone Mountain Coal Company. 491 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 3: Also where I was born. 492 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: You were born at the Mate one. 493 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 3: I was born in Stone Mountain, Georgia, different places. 494 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I knew you, like you worked there, 495 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: but I didn't know you were born in Stone Mountain. 496 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: Wyn't we well. 497 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 2: I mean I was born. The hospital was the Cab 498 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 2: General back then. Now it's the Cab Medical Center, which 499 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 2: is Decatur. But I had a Stone Mountain address, even 500 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: though it was not near, you know, kind of downtown 501 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 2: Stowe Mountain, in Stowe Mountain Park. 502 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: I understand that's fine. That still comes a Stone Mountain. 503 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: I'm not questioning your bona fides. 504 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 3: No, no, no, it was. 505 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: It was just a little weird though, because if you 506 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 2: if you're from around here and you say you grew 507 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 2: up in Stone Mountain, people probably think like, oh, you 508 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 2: grew up and went to Stow Mountain High School and 509 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 2: live right near the park. But it was the dresses 510 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 2: were just different back then. 511 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 3: I get you. 512 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: You sound a little defensive. 513 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 3: No, no, no of it all proud Stone Mountain guy. 514 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 2: I remember when I was a kid, Steve Martin referenced 515 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 2: Stone Mountain and I think the man with two brains. 516 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 2: You were like, it was a very big deal because 517 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 2: Stone Mountain didn't get a lot of shouts and those. 518 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 2: I remember there was one line where you said something 519 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 2: about Stone Mountain, Georgia during like a rant, and it 520 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 2: was just like what Steve Martin, why is his hair gray? 521 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 2: I guess the good thing about that is Steve Martin 522 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 2: looks about the same he does much forty years ago. 523 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 2: All right, So workers did they even though they weren't 524 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 2: under the thumb necessarily as a town of the Stowe 525 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 2: Mountain Coal Company. A lot of the workers did live 526 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,719 Speaker 2: in company housing, and sometimes they were paid in dividends 527 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 2: instead of you know money, like real American money. And 528 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 2: they did use they employed the Baldwin Feltz Company to 529 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: kind of, you know, come in and keep things quelled. 530 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. That they had a spy too, Who was I mean? 531 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: In an episode full of really terrible people, this guy 532 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: might be the most terrible of all. His name was C. 533 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: Everett Lively see E. Lively, and he was involved in 534 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: that Ludlow massacre in Colorado. He had killed at least 535 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: one person for sure, and he moved to southern West 536 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: Virginia and set up shop as a spy. Ostensibly he 537 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: was a miner who or he had mining experience, but 538 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: had gotten into the restaurant business and opened a cafe. 539 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: And he opened the cafe and basically put out the 540 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: welcome mat for the local miners union to come have 541 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: their meetings at so he could keep tabs on what 542 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: they were saying. And you know, he wanted to say, like, wow, 543 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: they really fell for that. Yes, this guy, he befriended 544 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: Sid Hatfield. He made the right kind of friends to 545 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: make himself seem legitimate. So it was, you know, not 546 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: hard for him to get to get some of these 547 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: organizers leaders and otherwise to cough up like details because 548 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: they trusted the guy. And they even very smartly the 549 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: organizers for the like Mingo County area, they did not 550 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: have an elected leader, and if they did, they kept 551 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: it secret, so you didn't know who was actually running 552 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: the show, which. 553 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 3: No union, no local union had right. 554 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: Oh interesting, even behind the scenes, a lot of people 555 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: didn't know who was actually calling the shots, which actually, 556 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: from what I understand, led to a kind of a 557 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: just a byproduct democratization of the whole process as well, 558 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: which I think brought people in even further because they 559 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: had a real stake in what happened and had a 560 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: real say in what happened. 561 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 3: Was they're a leader, Like, do we know who it was? Now? 562 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, his name was I think Frank Keeney. He was 563 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: his one of his descendants as a local historian, who 564 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: knows all about this stuff, but he was He was 565 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: definitely the guy in charge of the Mingo County Area 566 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: UMWAH chapter. He was the one who was organizing it, 567 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: and he was doing it at a time when no 568 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: one else would do it. And actually they sent mother 569 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,479 Speaker 1: Jones to come in. Who would She would have been 570 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: about eighty at the time. She'd been a labor organizer 571 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: for at least fifty years since and she helped big 572 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: time for sure. But it was Frank Keeney who was 573 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: the guy who was in charge. 574 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say they kept Keene's 575 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 2: identity a secret, and they were like, could you know, 576 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 2: he's just sweeping up around the restaurant, and they're like, 577 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 2: old Keeney lost his tongue about thirty years ago and 578 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 2: he can't even talk anymore. 579 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, no one opened his mouth to check. They just 580 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: took it out that he really had. 581 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 3: That's right, And he literally kept his mouth shut. 582 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: So remember ce Charles Everett Lively. Yeah, he's a terrible person. 583 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the spy. So we mentioned that Tin City. 584 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 2: That happened in other places, this did happen in mate Wan. 585 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: A lot of the families were kicked out of their homes, 586 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 2: relocated to live together on land in tents, and in 587 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 2: the spring of nineteen twenty, Mingo County the mate Wan 588 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 2: workers finally said we're going to go on strike, mainly 589 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 2: to protest the fact that these thugs, these Baldwin Feltz 590 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 2: thugs as they were called, came in to bust up 591 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 2: their organizing efforts, which culminated in I guess what we'll 592 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 2: call round one of three rounds of events on May nineteenth, 593 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 2: nineteen twenty, when about a dozen of these guards from 594 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 2: Baldwin Felts came in to mate Wan. They went to 595 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 2: a victim from tent City. A lot of people say 596 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 2: that they were just kicked out of their homes, but 597 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 2: the National Park Services on record saying that, you know, 598 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 2: like you said earlier, they actually went to a place 599 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 2: that they didn't even have jurisdiction and said you got 600 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 2: to get out of your tent city as well, even 601 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 2: though we have no power here. And those did we 602 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 2: already mentioned Lee Felts, right, or did we. 603 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: No, we've only mentioned his brother. 604 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 2: Okay, so a couple of the guards or Albert and 605 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 2: Lee Felts, and they're brothers of the co owner of 606 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 2: the company, Tom Feltz, So he has literal family members 607 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 2: sort of on the ground as one of these local thugs. 608 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 2: And Albert his brother, and another one of the guards 609 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 2: named Cebe Cunningham, and this was a guy that was 610 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 2: in that Colorado massacre. Another one of the guys in 611 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 2: the Colorado massacre. In addition to see E. 612 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,239 Speaker 3: Lively. I hope this isn't getting too confusing with all 613 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 3: the names. 614 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: Just map it out everybody. 615 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 2: They had a shootout in town, like just a sort 616 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 2: of a good old fashioned you know, meet in the 617 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 2: middle of town and had had guns drawn. 618 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of variations on exactly what happened, 619 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: and we'll give you two of them. One, according to 620 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: the West Virginia Department of Culture, said that after they 621 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: evicted people from the tent city or the company homes, 622 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: those Baldwin Felts detectives actually went into town and had dinner, 623 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: and they were on their way to the train station 624 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: and they were going to catch the five o'clock train 625 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: out of town when they were approached by smiling City Hatfield, 626 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: and Hatfield said, hey, you didn't have any right whatsoever? 627 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: Do e vict those people? I have a warrant for 628 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: your arrest? And Albert Felt said, you know what, I've 629 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: got a warrant for your arrest. He might have even said, 630 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: uh uh first right. It just so happened that the 631 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: mayor of Maate, one Cabell Cornelius Testament CC Testament again 632 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: with the double C initials. Yeah, he was on the scene. 633 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: He was a good friend of Sid Hatfield's, and he said, 634 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,359 Speaker 1: let me see that. He said, this is a fake, 635 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: This isn't actually a warrant for Sid Hatfield's arrest. And 636 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: by the way, you can't arrest the chief of police here, 637 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: so get out here. And while this was happening, a 638 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 1: bunch of miners who were armed had taken notice of 639 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: this confrontation that was taking place in the middle of 640 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: the street between a bunch of Baldwin Felts detectives, their 641 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: mayor and their police of chief of police, and so 642 00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: they kind of armed themselves to see what happened. Somebody 643 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 1: fired a shot in all heck pro procluse. 644 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's from the mouth of JM Clark legendary podcast. 645 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 3: You ever gone by JM? 646 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: I tried to, you know, once or twice. It felt 647 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: I felt wrong. 648 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 3: I like that JM Clark, do you. 649 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: I don't like those two letters together. They're not great. 650 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 3: Oh, I think it's good. You don't. The guy's a ring. 651 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: No, it's like it's like missing a vowel, like Jim 652 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:33,240 Speaker 1: JAM something like that. JM. It's not They're not cc CB, JB. 653 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: All those are pretty good. JM is not good, and 654 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: I'm sorry all the jm's out there. 655 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 2: I think JM Clark sounds like a high end pantmaker, 656 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 2: like a clothier or a habitasher. 657 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: I make only tattersol vests. 658 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 3: CW. 659 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 2: I would think that doesn't sound great, but my dad 660 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 2: called me CW, so it sort of has a ring 661 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 2: in my mind. 662 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: No, it does. 663 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 3: I don't think they flow really c W does c W? 664 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 3: All right? 665 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: Yes? 666 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 3: JAM does not well at any rate. I'm gonna come 667 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 3: over and have you fit me for some for a pant. 668 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: Well, that's fine. I'm gonna start calling you C dubs 669 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: from now on, S dubs. 670 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 2: So they're surrounded by the miners. This is as far 671 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 2: as the different accounts go, this sort of became a 672 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 2: gredo shot first deal and that someone fired a gun, 673 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 2: shootout happens. Seven of the detectives were killed, including Albert Feltz, 674 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 2: the brother of the founder of the agency. 675 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:33,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's and Lee, I think too. 676 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 3: Oh do they both die? Yeah? Okay? 677 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 2: And Mayor Testamon was killed and two miners. And again, 678 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 2: depending on who you talk to, there's a historian that 679 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 2: LVIA found named Rebecca Bailey that told the Smithsonian that 680 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:55,760 Speaker 2: Hatfield probably shot first or the miners. Other people say 681 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 2: that contemporaneous accounts at the time, at least from the 682 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 2: Willi News, is like the day after they said that 683 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 2: detectives took sid Smile and said into custody, and that 684 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 2: when Mayor Testerman came up and said, no, no, no, you've 685 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 2: got to release him, that that's when things broke out, 686 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 2: and that Testerman and Felts were shot first. Yeah, and 687 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 2: then the Baldwin Feltz thugs kind of got out of there. 688 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 2: Some of them tried to get across the river to Kentucky, 689 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 2: some made it, some got shot there. Some supposedly were 690 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 2: shot while they were running away, not across the river, 691 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 2: and then some of those that did make it came 692 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 2: back later, like under the cover of night to catch 693 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:42,320 Speaker 2: a train and secret. So who knows how it actually 694 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 2: went down. We do know who died. 695 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: Though, Yeah, and there's still bullet holes in some of 696 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: the brick buildings on mate Street where the shootout happened. 697 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 698 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: I think they preserved him by putting brass plugs in them. 699 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, So however it happened, there was definitely 700 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: a shootout and a bunch of people died, and we're 701 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: left in the street until you know everybody. I mean, 702 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: you've got like the dead mayor, the chief of police 703 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,720 Speaker 1: is involved. There's just so many dead people laying around 704 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: that it took a little while to get everything cleaned 705 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: up and orderly again. Apparently trains of people had started 706 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 1: arriving and we're like okay, and we get back on 707 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: the train. And that night actually they redirected trains through Matewan. 708 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: They ordered the trains not to stop in Matewand as 709 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 1: usual until the next day. So it was a really 710 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: really big deal and rumors started flying very quickly, and 711 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 1: probably the biggest one was that it was actually Sid 712 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 1: Hatfield who shot Mayor Testament and that the reason he 713 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: shot him was because Sid Hatfield had eyes for Testament's wife, Jesse. Yeah, 714 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: and they traced this rumor to Baldwin Feltz detectives. 715 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 716 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: Right, And so apparently at Hatfield's trial for this, by 717 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: the way, he was a quit by a very sympathetic jury, 718 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: as was all of the miners involved. A lot of 719 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: people stepped up and said, no, this is totally wrong. 720 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: These guys were really close friends. Of course, he's not 721 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: going to shoot him in retrospect, from my view, to 722 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: execute your romantic rival in the broad daylight in the 723 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: middle of the street anticipating a gunfight would be pretty 724 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: brazen and just hoping for the best. So I think, 725 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: just you know, the fact that there was no one 726 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: who even said, yeah, he actually did this, I saw 727 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: him do it. I think he probably didn't. But but 728 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: there is a little bit of there's a strange PostScript 729 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: to this story that does make you wonder a little bit. 730 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, Sid Hatfield married the mayor's wife, Jesse, less than. 731 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,320 Speaker 3: A month after this all went down. 732 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: Yes, and it does good. 733 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 3: It does make you wonder. 734 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: And to make it even more interesting, Jesse was a 735 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:58,839 Speaker 1: direct descendant of Randolph McCoy No way, really, yeah, for real, 736 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: I mean this a place like right across the river 737 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: from where the Hatfields and the boys lived in Kentucky. 738 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 2: Wow, smiling said he just he did. He didn't give 739 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 2: a crud, did he. 740 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: He didn't give a root and toot and crud. 741 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:13,760 Speaker 3: He didn't. 742 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 2: I believe even after the wedding they were getting their 743 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 2: marriage license and they were in Huntington staying at a hotel. 744 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,359 Speaker 2: So this is pre wedding staying in the same room. 745 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,399 Speaker 2: So you could get arrested for that kind of thing. 746 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 2: Back then it was called cohabitation, and the police arrested him, 747 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,479 Speaker 2: and of course it was Tom Feltz who had tipped 748 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 2: them off. But apparently the judge said, no, don't worry 749 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 2: about it. You guys are getting married today, and who 750 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 2: wants to mess that up? 751 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: Right? 752 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 3: Then Tom felt said me right. 753 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,879 Speaker 1: The judge's famous quote was mazel tov, right, you want 754 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: to take a break. 755 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's take our other break and we'll we'll finish 756 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 2: up what happens right after this. 757 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: So, like I said, Hatfield was acquitted. His deputy Ed 758 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,279 Speaker 1: Chambers was there too. He was acquitted. Seventeen miners all 759 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: acquitted because they were tried in Mingo County, which was 760 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: again not run by the coal companies. 761 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 2: So. 762 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: That really didn't sit well with Baldwin Felts with the 763 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: coal operators. 764 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,360 Speaker 3: Around one to the miners basically. 765 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: For sure, that's a really great way to put it. 766 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,320 Speaker 1: And like I said, uh, Sid Hatfield. And it turns 767 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: out also Ed Chambers were tried for blowing up a 768 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 1: coal tipple like I mentioned, and they were actually dealing 769 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: with this case, and this one had had been set 770 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: in McDowell County and they had petitioned Chambers in Hatfield 771 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,439 Speaker 1: too for a change of venue because they're like, we're 772 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: gonna get the death sentence for this thing here, and 773 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: it was actually granted. For it to be granted, they 774 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: needed to show up to court in McDowell County one 775 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: more time before it was transferred over to I think 776 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: Mingo County. And on that day they went to court 777 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: with both of their wives, came out, and they were 778 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: gunned down in broad daylight by no less than ce Lively, 779 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: the anti union spy who was supposedly Sid Hatfield's close friend. 780 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and get this round one goes to the miners 781 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 2: because they were in a like you said, the local 782 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 2: jurors were more friendly to them. Round two goes to 783 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,760 Speaker 2: the other side because the assassins said it was self 784 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 2: defense and they weren't convicted because it was a McDowell 785 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 2: county and it was more friendly toward the coal company exactly. 786 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 3: So these juries are just biased on both sides. 787 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,480 Speaker 2: Basically, as far as Jesse goes, she's now been widowed twice, 788 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 2: and she remarried in January of twenty two. 789 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,719 Speaker 3: But not to a hat Field or a Pinkerton of 790 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 3: the South. 791 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: No, but he was a state constable, so she liked 792 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: the I guess the elected official. 793 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 3: Men in uniform. Sure she should have made a baker then. 794 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: For sure, I'm going to do something different this time. 795 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 2: So this all, you know, that's round two, which was 796 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 2: pretty quick. This kind of instigated Round three, which was 797 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 2: the big one, which were the march on Logan County 798 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 2: and the Battle of Blair Mountain. Because of these murders, 799 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,360 Speaker 2: the Unionist and the miner sent some demands to the 800 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 2: governor Ephraim Morgan at this point and said, hey, this 801 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 2: Baldwin Felts group of thugs are violent and they're doing 802 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 2: things that are illegal and this can't stand. 803 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 3: But Morgan. 804 00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,680 Speaker 2: Of course everyone was in the pocket of somebody, yeah, 805 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,600 Speaker 2: was an anti union Republican and said didn't even acknowledge it, 806 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,719 Speaker 2: didn't even make a comment on the assassination, and took 807 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,879 Speaker 2: no action on this list of demands at all. 808 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: So two things about Governor Morgan. One, while he was governor, 809 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: a US Senate Committee on Labor issued an opinion that 810 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 1: West Virginia was nothing more than an industrial autocracy and 811 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: that the governor was basically there strictly for the benefit 812 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 1: of the coal operators. And then number two, when he 813 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 1: was elected, the reason he won is because he ran 814 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,359 Speaker 1: against three other progressives who were pro labor, and they 815 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: split that vote. He was the only anti labor guy, 816 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: and if you put their votes together, he would have 817 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 1: been beaten badly. But they split the vote, and that 818 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: led this anti labor guy to become governor. And it 819 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:57,399 Speaker 1: reveals something really important that the people, the general voter 820 00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: out there in West Virginia was pro labor, was in 821 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,600 Speaker 1: favor of miners, was in favor of unions, was not 822 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:08,080 Speaker 1: in favor of anti union conservatives. And just put put 823 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 1: that in your pocket for later, because it's a really 824 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 1: important point. 825 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 3: That's right front pocket even I think. 826 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,400 Speaker 1: Is the front pocket of your ted or sal vest. 827 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:22,359 Speaker 3: That's right right beside your pocket watch. Sure, all right. 828 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,160 Speaker 2: So, because of the non action by the governor on 829 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:31,439 Speaker 2: August of nineteen twenty one, ten thousand that's right, ten 830 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,399 Speaker 2: thousand miners came to town, to Marmott, which is eight 831 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:40,279 Speaker 2: miles south of Charleston, armed a lot, most of them armed. 832 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,160 Speaker 2: Imagine everyone who had a gun had their gun definitely, 833 00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 2: and they were trying to you know, avenge obviously the 834 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,360 Speaker 2: deaths of Hatfield and Chambers, and they wanted to confront 835 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,960 Speaker 2: this sheriff there in Logan County. His name was Don Schaffin, 836 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 2: and they also wanted and he was a minor guy, 837 00:45:58,120 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 2: so it was sort of all in the same bucket. 838 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 2: And they wanted to free some miners that were jailed 839 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 2: in Mingo County. So Governor Morgan finally steps in and Chaffin, 840 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,000 Speaker 2: that sheriff I was just talking about, from Logan County. 841 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,600 Speaker 2: He got a bunch of deputies together, got a bunch 842 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:19,040 Speaker 2: of anti union civilians together, got their guns, and got 843 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,440 Speaker 2: up on the ridge line at Blair Mountain because the marchers, 844 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,360 Speaker 2: you know, heading into town had to go through there. 845 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 3: And this was a This was a war. 846 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:32,360 Speaker 2: I mean, it was several days of gunfire, gapland guns, 847 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 2: machine guns, rifles. They had airplanes dropping shrapnel bombs and 848 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 2: dropping gas bombs, like gases that would make you nauseous 849 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. 850 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,520 Speaker 1: There was a guy on a horse with a tri dent. 851 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:47,360 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna ask if that's for you, okay. 852 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 2: But it was several days of like a legit real 853 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 2: war such that the President of the United States, Warren Harding, 854 00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,359 Speaker 2: had to come in and send it. Well, it didn't 855 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 2: come in like literally, but sent in federal troops in 856 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 2: his stead right, and the Union surrendered. They were obviously 857 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,280 Speaker 2: outgunned by that point, but a lot of them were veterans, 858 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,359 Speaker 2: like army veterans, and so when they called in the army, 859 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,279 Speaker 2: they were like, I'm not going to go to war 860 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,319 Speaker 2: against my army that I served. 861 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,799 Speaker 1: In, right. And so even though the miners didn't make 862 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,360 Speaker 1: it to hang Don Chaffin, and they didn't make it 863 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,520 Speaker 1: to free the miners in Mingo County, they still considered 864 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,200 Speaker 1: this a win. Apparently, on the way back from town 865 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,560 Speaker 1: or from the fight, one of the miners leaned out 866 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,439 Speaker 1: of a passing street car and said it was Uncle 867 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,600 Speaker 1: Sam did it. And they were saying, like, we surrendered 868 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,880 Speaker 1: only two federal troops who were sympathetic with we. We 869 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,400 Speaker 1: didn't surrender to Baldwin Felts detectives, we didn't surrender to Chaffin, 870 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,560 Speaker 1: we didn't surrender the mine operators. It was strictly because 871 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,279 Speaker 1: federal troops came that we we said, okay, because we're 872 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 1: not gonna we have no beef with the federal government, 873 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,799 Speaker 1: so we're not going to fight them. So it was 874 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 1: actually generally it was pre much a win for the 875 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:06,920 Speaker 1: miners for sure, and it definitely helped catalyze the organizing 876 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,320 Speaker 1: that went on. I saw that right after sid Haffield 877 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,680 Speaker 1: was gonned down. I think they reached like ninety percent 878 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,280 Speaker 1: of miners had signed on for the union in the area, 879 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,879 Speaker 1: and this just helped catalyze it even further. The thing 880 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,960 Speaker 1: is is that the coal mine operators didn't give up 881 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:33,040 Speaker 1: at all. They continued their tactics trying to break strikes 882 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,680 Speaker 1: and break up the unions, and they actually proved to 883 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 1: be very successful. There was a drop in union membership 884 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,320 Speaker 1: from the United Mineworkers Association from five hundred thousand and 885 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,759 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty shortly after the events we've just described to 886 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,479 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand in nineteen twenty nine, not because people 887 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,640 Speaker 1: lost interest in unionizing or having better working conditions, but 888 00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:00,880 Speaker 1: because the mine operators ratcheted up the heat, both politically 889 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,320 Speaker 1: and violently to make that happen. 890 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:06,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 891 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,759 Speaker 2: Absolutely, But while they while the unions sort of lost 892 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,000 Speaker 2: the battle in that nine year period, they won the 893 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 2: overall war eventually because what it also did was just 894 00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,560 Speaker 2: sort of draw more attention to this kind of stuff, 895 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,719 Speaker 2: and it was you know, national news and all of 896 00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:29,960 Speaker 2: these sort of militant anti union ideas were I think 897 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,759 Speaker 2: as far as the American public goes were like, you know, 898 00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,719 Speaker 2: this is no good. And FDR comes in and says like, 899 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,400 Speaker 2: hey guys, we need a new deal, and they're like, okay, 900 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,040 Speaker 2: what should we call it? And he went how about 901 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,359 Speaker 2: the new deal? And all of a sudden, you know, 902 00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,160 Speaker 2: unions had a I mean, I guess you could say 903 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,560 Speaker 2: that had an easier time. They definitely weren't being intimidated. 904 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,400 Speaker 2: I mean, their unions are still intimidated, but not in 905 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,799 Speaker 2: the ways they were in the you know, turn of 906 00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,320 Speaker 2: the century through the nineteen twenties. 907 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, remember when I said Governor Morgan was elected but 908 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,799 Speaker 1: not by any sort of popular vote, and that the 909 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 1: will of the people actually was pro union. Thanks to 910 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,080 Speaker 1: the United Mind Workers Association and some of the other unions, 911 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:14,880 Speaker 1: that voice was elevated into national politics and it actually 912 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,040 Speaker 1: ended up taking over the show, getting FDR elected, and 913 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,560 Speaker 1: then working directly with FDR to get the new deal passed, 914 00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,040 Speaker 1: to get the labor union strength and to get better 915 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:29,440 Speaker 1: benefits and working conditions for union members. And not just 916 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:34,040 Speaker 1: union members, the unions had a knock on effect for 917 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:38,600 Speaker 1: other workers who weren't even unionized because it it forced 918 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,440 Speaker 1: the mine operators to improve conditions across the board, so 919 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,839 Speaker 1: it benefited workers who hadn't even joined the union. And 920 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,120 Speaker 1: the wages had to get competitive all of a sudden too, 921 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,400 Speaker 1: so that benefited everyone as well. It's really difficult to 922 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:58,000 Speaker 1: overstate the effect that the United Mind Workers' Union had, 923 00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:02,160 Speaker 1: like it was an enormously on the future of America. Yeah, 924 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,880 Speaker 1: not just in southern West Virginia, but yes, in America. 925 00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,280 Speaker 1: They went on to form the CIO as an AFL CIO, 926 00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:12,920 Speaker 1: which organized industrial workers like the people who put together 927 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,560 Speaker 1: stuff using the raw material that people like the miners 928 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,879 Speaker 1: dug out of the ground and that had a huge 929 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,000 Speaker 1: effect as well. So it was a really really big deal, 930 00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,600 Speaker 1: these mine wars that took place in southern West Virginia 931 00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,360 Speaker 1: and the effect that they had across the rest of 932 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:29,560 Speaker 1: the country. 933 00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. They also went on to found the NFL 934 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,840 Speaker 3: and the NBA and the C. W. 935 00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:37,200 Speaker 1: Bryant. 936 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:38,600 Speaker 3: That's right in the J. M. 937 00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,440 Speaker 2: Clark as far as Baldwin felt, that company, that agency. 938 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,880 Speaker 2: They operated for about fifteen years after that, not nearly 939 00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,520 Speaker 2: as sort of young in Busting. 940 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,240 Speaker 3: Public eye sort of spectacle, a little quieter. 941 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 2: But when Baldwin and Felts both died within a year 942 00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,120 Speaker 2: and a half of each other in nineteen thirty six, 943 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,320 Speaker 2: they folded for good. Rich dudes made a ton of money, obviously, 944 00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,400 Speaker 2: And I suggest seeing mate one that the John Sales 945 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,760 Speaker 2: movie from nineteen eighty seven is really good. It's a 946 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:16,960 Speaker 2: fictionalized version. There are a few characters, believe test the 947 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,879 Speaker 2: Mayor is in it, and ce Lively is in it, 948 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,360 Speaker 2: and a couple of others, but like the main players, 949 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,640 Speaker 2: like Chris Cooper's is the lead, it's a fictionalized character. 950 00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:30,840 Speaker 2: But this is a really good movie. John Sales is 951 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:31,640 Speaker 2: a great filmmaker. 952 00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it wrote and directed right in a nice 953 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:39,600 Speaker 1: little PostScript to all of this is found with ce Lively. Apparently, 954 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,000 Speaker 1: his usefulness ran its course after he was revealed to 955 00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,359 Speaker 1: not be an actual friend to the miners, and he 956 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,840 Speaker 1: was no longer employed by Baldwin Feltz and by nineteen 957 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,719 Speaker 1: twenty seven he had gone back to mining and was destitute. 958 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,040 Speaker 1: That kind of thing makes you feel good. 959 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, what about his restaurant? 960 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,120 Speaker 1: It was shut down for health code violations. Somebody found 961 00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,520 Speaker 1: p in the suit. Oh my god, it was terrible. 962 00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:07,920 Speaker 3: I'm that old bag. 963 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:10,760 Speaker 1: No, someone put their foot in the Brunswick Stew. 964 00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:12,840 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you remember that. 965 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,279 Speaker 1: Well, I just listened to that. It's coming out as 966 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:16,920 Speaker 1: a select I think sometimes that's okay. 967 00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, our foot in Brunswicks Dow episode. 968 00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 1: Well, since Chuck referenced to our foot in Brunswicks Tew episode, 969 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,520 Speaker 1: I think everybody we can all agree that it's time 970 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:26,399 Speaker 1: for listener mail. 971 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,520 Speaker 3: I'm gonna call this Josh correction. Sorry. 972 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,319 Speaker 1: That seems to be like a good fifty percent of 973 00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,240 Speaker 1: our listener mail these days. 974 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,200 Speaker 3: Well, I don't talk as much. I'm smart. I keep 975 00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:43,000 Speaker 3: my trap shut. 976 00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,080 Speaker 2: Okay, Hey, guys wanted to write in a clear up 977 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,200 Speaker 2: Josh's conception of Catalina Island. It was my home away 978 00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,200 Speaker 2: from home for almost twenty years. My husband and I 979 00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,280 Speaker 2: lived on our forty four foot sloop and of moored 980 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,080 Speaker 2: in that harbor many times, probably even the same morning 981 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,160 Speaker 2: where the splendor had more in nineteen eighty one. And 982 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:09,400 Speaker 2: of course this is referencing our Natalie Wood episode which time, Yeah, 983 00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:14,360 Speaker 2: the show's so nice, they released it thrice. Josh depicted 984 00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,120 Speaker 2: the location as a place where rich people go in 985 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,919 Speaker 2: their yachts to party yacht to yacht. In reality, it's 986 00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,919 Speaker 2: more like camping at an RV park. Boats as small 987 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,320 Speaker 2: as twenty feet sail over to twin harbors on Catalina 988 00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,799 Speaker 2: and the occupants all dine at Doug Harbor's Reef, which 989 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:28,959 Speaker 2: is the only restaurant there. 990 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,480 Speaker 3: The city of Avalon is the South. 991 00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,000 Speaker 2: Of France type place, but the isthmus of Catalina is 992 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,120 Speaker 2: a boater's campground. 993 00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:36,200 Speaker 3: A couple of things. 994 00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,719 Speaker 2: I'll chime in about one and our experience. There's never 995 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,000 Speaker 2: been a power voter that thought twice about disturbing their 996 00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,840 Speaker 2: anchorage neighbors with floodlights and generators and loud music. 997 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:46,759 Speaker 3: And two. 998 00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,040 Speaker 2: As for the people who heard cries of help, I 999 00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,480 Speaker 2: wonder if they were actually downwind or upwind of the splendor. 1000 00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,360 Speaker 2: Because sound travels very well across water, perhaps the dinghy 1001 00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,960 Speaker 2: was actually very far away when they heard these cries. 1002 00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,880 Speaker 2: Just curious part of the stuff you should know family. 1003 00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,000 Speaker 1: Kathy with a K, oh, I wonder if that's Kathy 1004 00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,480 Speaker 1: with the K who gave us lassos in Arizona. 1005 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,480 Speaker 3: Oh, is that Kathy with a K? You know? I 1006 00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:14,800 Speaker 3: got my lasso hanging up at the camp still. 1007 00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,000 Speaker 1: And that tracks people who have lassos also might have 1008 00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,400 Speaker 1: spent a portion of their life living on the sailboat. 1009 00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:20,640 Speaker 3: Uh huh. 1010 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,279 Speaker 1: So okay, if that's you, Kathy with the K, how 1011 00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,520 Speaker 1: are you? Good to hear from you? And if you're 1012 00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,640 Speaker 1: not the same Kathy with the K, good to hear 1013 00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,200 Speaker 1: from you as well. Thanks for that. I love being corrected. 1014 00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,120 Speaker 1: Even though you could make a case that partying from 1015 00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,280 Speaker 1: RV to RV at RV park is a very celebrity 1016 00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,080 Speaker 1: thing to do these days, that's fine, We'll go with 1017 00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:44,480 Speaker 1: your interpretation of it, all right. Well, if you want 1018 00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,040 Speaker 1: to get in touch with this, like Kathy with the K, 1019 00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:48,880 Speaker 1: did you can send us an email to stuff podcast 1020 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,279 Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio dot com. 1021 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,319 Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 1022 00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:00,600 Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app podcasts, 1023 00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:02,520 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.