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Speaker 1: Quest. Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode this time this

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Speaker 2: really is.

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Speaker 1: A special episode of course, Love Supreme.

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Speaker 3: We have our Team Supreme with us. This is going

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Speaker 3: to be a.

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Speaker 2: Special being kind of an instant too parter, I will

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Speaker 2: save that our guest today simply not only accomplished musician, singer, songwriter,

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Speaker 2: but in my opinion, he is hands down one half

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Speaker 2: of one of the most successful duos of all time

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Speaker 2: in the modern rocket era. He'll popularize the burgeoning blue

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Speaker 2: eyed soul movement of the late sixties and early seventies

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Speaker 2: and into the future from my native town in Philadelphia,

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Speaker 2: along with his partner Daryl Hall, who incidentally will have

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Speaker 2: his own episode to himself as well.

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Speaker 3: I want to preface.

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Speaker 2: By saying that usually, uh, when we have guests on

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Speaker 2: the show, I kind of like the one on one thing,

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Speaker 2: just like one artist for Team Supreme. I know it's

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Speaker 2: been easier to have a group aesthetic, but I feel

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Speaker 2: like you get more in depth stories when it's one

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Speaker 2: on one. And I'm not being a smart like by

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Speaker 2: referencing one of their classic songs, but in.

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Speaker 3: My game to night Eaginal man that when that was

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Speaker 3: the NBA.

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Speaker 4: Do you remember a certain age when that was the

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Speaker 4: NBA theme song?

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Speaker 3: When when they had.

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Speaker 1: That who you don't remember this?

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Speaker 3: What man? Yo?

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Speaker 4: One on one they there was a promo they cut

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Speaker 4: and it would be like, you know, you see bird

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Speaker 4: and magic like you know, playing this motion and it

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Speaker 4: was one on one. They cut it on one on one.

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Speaker 4: That ship was amazing.

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Speaker 5: They used it for the old started game.

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Speaker 3: John.

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Speaker 2: Where are you right now as we speak? I'm in Nashville, Okay,

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Speaker 2: And this is your home home?

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, we still have a place out in Colorado

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Speaker 5: where we lived for about twenty five years in the

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Speaker 5: nineties into the two thousands. But yeah, we've been here

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Speaker 5: now for about almost fifteen years. And yeah, it's a

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Speaker 5: great place to make music.

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Speaker 3: See I see. So when were your Philly days over?

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Speaker 5: Oh? Man, you know that was a long long time ago.

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Speaker 5: I think Daryl and I both moved to New York

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Speaker 5: together in nineteen seventy two, and that's when we got

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Speaker 5: our Atlantic Records contract and we made our first album

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Speaker 5: in New York at Atlantic Records.

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Speaker 3: The one Top produced.

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Speaker 5: No No No, This is a Reef Martin Oh wow.

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Speaker 5: A Reef produced our first two albums, an album called

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Speaker 5: holl Oats, which hardly anybody knows about, and then the

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Speaker 5: album Abandon Luncheonette, which is kind of the one that

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Speaker 5: I think most people think is our first album was

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Speaker 5: a second but Arif Martin produced both those and we

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Speaker 5: couldn't have been in better hands. One of the greatest

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Speaker 5: producers of all time, and was he was. He surrounded

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Speaker 5: us with the greatest musicians in New York City and

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Speaker 5: it was an amazing experience.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, having you on the show is special

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Speaker 2: for me at least because even though we had Todd

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Speaker 2: on the show, I feel like I'm going to get

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Speaker 2: way better mid to late sixties Philadelphia music community stories

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Speaker 2: that otherwise my dad wouldn't have been able to tell

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Speaker 2: me about, or you know, a lot of cats and

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Speaker 2: that I've always wanted to know these stories about the

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Speaker 2: music scene in Philly, especially right before Gamble and Huff

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Speaker 2: started their empire.

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Speaker 3: Always been curious about that sort of thing. Were you

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Speaker 3: born in Philadelphia?

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Speaker 5: I was actually born in New York City. My family

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Speaker 5: was from New York, but when my father's job was

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Speaker 5: relocated to Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia in nineteen I'm going

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Speaker 5: to date myself. But hey, you all know, I'm old self.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't matter fifty nineteen, fifty four, fifty three or

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Speaker 5: fifty four. And so we moved in the whole. We

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Speaker 5: moved our family, The rest of my the rest of

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Speaker 5: our extended family stayed in the New York area. But no,

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Speaker 5: so essentially, even though I was born in New York,

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Speaker 5: you know, I was such a little kid. I grew

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Speaker 5: up in Pennsylvania, in the Philadelphia area.

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Speaker 3: Okay, And what part of Philly were you in Pennsylvania?

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Speaker 5: Well, it was a little town called North Wales, which

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Speaker 5: was near Lansdale Dale. It was about twenty miles north

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Speaker 5: of Philadelphia.

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Speaker 3: Okay. Cool. Do you know what your first musical memory was?

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Speaker 5: I sure do, I absolutely do. Right after we moved

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Speaker 5: to Pennsylvania, there was a place not too far away

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Speaker 5: called Willard Grove Amusement Park. Okay, And now it was

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Speaker 5: an air base as well, but anyway, at the time,

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Speaker 5: it was an amusement park. And my folks took me

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Speaker 5: there and Bill Haley and the Comets were playing in

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Speaker 5: the band show. And I don't know if you remember,

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Speaker 5: but Bill Haley was from Camden, of course, and so

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Speaker 5: I was like I was probably four maybe, And of course,

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Speaker 5: you know, I had had this musical sensibility at the time,

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Speaker 5: even though I was a little kid. And I remember

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Speaker 5: running down to the stage. It was a band show,

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Speaker 5: so the stage was only maybe two feet high, and

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Speaker 5: I remember being this little kid and I ran right

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Speaker 5: down to the band shell. And I remember the bass player,

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Speaker 5: the upright bass player. At one point in the show,

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Speaker 5: he rode his bass like a horse, and I thought

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Speaker 5: that was the most amazing things I'd ever seen. And

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Speaker 5: that actually the first live music I ever heard was

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Speaker 5: Rock around the Clock. And you know Bill Haley.

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Speaker 2: And the Comets really so they were just performing at the.

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Speaker 5: They were in the they were performing at the amusement park.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, I think I believe that

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Speaker 2: I too saw a latter day Bill Haley beforemat Then

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Speaker 2: we used to we we had something called the Steel Pier.

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Speaker 5: Oh. Yeah, I played at the Steel Pier.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Steel Pier in a Lank city. It was

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Speaker 3: a Lank city, right or wild.

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Speaker 5: Wood Yep, No, it was in Atlantic City. And when

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Speaker 5: I was a really little kid, around five or six,

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Speaker 5: I sang at something called Tony Grant Stars of Tomorrow

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Speaker 5: which was a kitty uh talent show at the Steel Pier.

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Speaker 2: In my dating myself, I had mentioned the word Al

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Speaker 2: alberts Where you do you remember the Al alberts O

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Speaker 2: case at all?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was around that time, and

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Speaker 5: there was a guy and it was actually before Dick

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Speaker 5: Clark took over Bandstand and it was what was his name?

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Speaker 5: There was a different host before Dick Clark, but it

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Speaker 5: was during that period of time. It was in the

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Speaker 5: mid fifties.

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Speaker 2: And uh so you you were there for like the

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Speaker 2: the do Op era of Philadelphia.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Duop and Jerry Blavett and all that stuff. Jerry

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Speaker 5: Blavett was a big hero of mine.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, the radio show that he used to do from

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Speaker 6: I think it was from Trenton where he'd play all

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Speaker 6: B sides and man, I heard, you know, songs like

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Speaker 6: Biolah by the Versatnes and you know, and Guided Missiles

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Speaker 6: and you know these.

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Speaker 5: Songs that were just unbelievable and you know your your

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Speaker 5: your father man Lee Andrews and the Hearts. Man, I

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Speaker 5: mean you know, tick tick tick in the clock a

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Speaker 5: league got it?

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Speaker 3: That's that's so dope.

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Speaker 2: So okay, during that period, I'm assuming that you're a teenager.

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Speaker 2: Like for you, like when did you know? What was

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Speaker 2: your moment of or your calling of knowing that you

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Speaker 2: were going to be a musician?

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Speaker 3: Like how old were you? And was guitar always your

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Speaker 3: weapon of choice? I was?

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Speaker 5: I just had I guess I had musical talent when

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Speaker 5: I was a little little kid. You know, I would sing.

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Speaker 5: I would sing these little songs. In fact, I have

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Speaker 5: a recording of me singing a little children's nursery song

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Speaker 5: that was done at Coney Island in one of those

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Speaker 5: record booths, you know where you go into the booth

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Speaker 5: and you put some money in and you'd sing and

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Speaker 5: the little record would come out. I still have that record.

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Speaker 5: I did that when I was like four or five

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Speaker 5: years old, and then I started playing guitar at seven.

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Speaker 5: I originally started on accordion because they were the only

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Speaker 5: music teacher in this little town where we lived, was

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Speaker 5: an accordion teacher. But I hated it, and then I

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Speaker 5: played I started playing guitar at about seven or eight,

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Speaker 5: and I was it.

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Speaker 3: You play accordion?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 3: I mean if you were to pick it up, now,

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Speaker 3: would you be?

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Speaker 5: I could fumble around on it, but but what happened

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Speaker 5: was seriously my mother just thought. My mom said, you

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Speaker 5: know he take some music lessons. Well, the only teacher

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Speaker 5: was an accordion teacher, and you know he was doing

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Speaker 5: all that Pennsylvani and you you know, polka stuff, that

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Speaker 5: kind of stuff, and so, I mean I hated it.

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Speaker 5: I literally I remember it. Used to sit in the closet.

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Speaker 5: And then I think I took two or three lessons,

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Speaker 5: and finally on the third lesson, the teacher went, he's

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Speaker 5: not practicing. I said, I hate this. I'm not doing it.

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Speaker 5: And I said, I want to get a guitar. So

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Speaker 5: I got a guitar and I started there.

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Speaker 3: Okay, how old were you when you got your guitar?

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Speaker 5: About seven?

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Speaker 2: Okay, do you remember the first album that you yourself purchased.

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Speaker 5: I didn't purchase an album at the first. I purchased singles.

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Speaker 5: It was always singles.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, yeah, your first it was the first record

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Speaker 3: that you got.

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Speaker 5: Oh man, let's see Shirley and Lee. Well it was

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Speaker 5: the Everly Brothers Shirly Lee and uh, well it's probably

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Speaker 5: an Elvis song too, I'm sure, and a Chuck Berry song,

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Speaker 5: probably Johnny be Good or something like that.

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Speaker 3: As you were a teenager, how what was the you know.

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Speaker 2: I guess for a lot of us could say that,

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Speaker 2: you know, I grew up in the era of the

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Speaker 2: Philadelphia sound just being developed, you know, in their early seventies.

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Speaker 2: But of course I know that a lot of those cats,

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Speaker 2: like not only Gamble and Huff, but Bunny Siegler and

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Speaker 2: all those guys were just local Philadelphia musicians.

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Speaker 3: So could you talk of just about.

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Speaker 2: That that environment atmosphere sort of in the mid sixties

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Speaker 2: to the early seventies, like what was happening in Philadelphia musically?

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, during when I was a teenager living,

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Speaker 5: you know, living right outside of Philly, you know, I

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Speaker 5: would take the train down on the Reading Railroad into

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Speaker 5: Center City and buy clothes and to go to the

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Speaker 5: record Museum on Chestnut Street by records. And what I'd

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Speaker 5: always do on Saturday night was I'd go to the

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Speaker 5: Uptown And I went to the Uptown Theater almost every

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Speaker 5: Saturday night. And oh, I saw the greatest of the greats.

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Speaker 3: So give me a typical give me a typical weekend.

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Speaker 5: Oh well, all right, you know I saw Sam and Dave,

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Speaker 5: I saw you know, the Temptations, I saw Stevie wonder

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Speaker 5: Do Fingertips when he was like twelve, when he first

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Speaker 5: came out. I actually saw him play that song and

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Speaker 5: I remember he jump on the drum kit and his

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Speaker 5: little kid. I mean, man, there was so many great

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Speaker 5: Smokey Robinson and the Miracles, the Four Tops, you know,

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Speaker 5: all the all the great Motown. But you know Barbara Mason,

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Speaker 5: Uh you know the Delphonics stylistics. Uh well, the Delphonics

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Speaker 5: were first. The Stylistics came a little later, but I mean,

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Speaker 5: you know, I was taken with a lot of the

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Speaker 5: great I remember this one group from Memphis that I loved,

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Speaker 5: the Mad Lads. Yeah, the Mad Lads, and uh he

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Speaker 5: just it just went on and on and on. It

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Speaker 5: was to me, it was it was I learned how

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Speaker 5: how a show is supposed to go. You know what,

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Speaker 5: what what got people off, what made got people to

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Speaker 5: scream and yell and clap and uh it was just

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Speaker 5: an amazing experience.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So you know again, I'm a Philadelphian, so I've not

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Speaker 2: heard any shows about the Uptown. What would be the

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Speaker 2: typical format of a show, like, for instance, if James

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Speaker 2: Brown is coming to Philadelphia, would he normally play at

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Speaker 2: the Uptown or was he at.

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Speaker 5: The time, Yeah, he would the Uptown Theater. Well, you know,

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Speaker 5: it was part of it was part of the Chiplan's circuit.

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Speaker 5: You know, it was the Apollo, the Howard and Howard

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Speaker 5: Theater in DC, the Uptown in Philly.

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Speaker 2: I mean that was the circuit, you know, So, like,

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Speaker 2: what would the format be like would shows? Would you

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Speaker 2: go there at twelve and at afternoon and.

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Speaker 3: Stay there all day?

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Speaker 5: Or no, No, it was he there were evening shows. They

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Speaker 5: were evening shows, and they would have a house band.

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Speaker 5: They always had a house band, and part of the

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Speaker 5: house band later became a lot of the cats who

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Speaker 5: played with Gamble and Huff became the studio guys for

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Speaker 5: Game on Huff. But in fact, Kenny Gamble might have

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Speaker 5: even been playing piano in the house man Darrel. We'll

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Speaker 5: tell you a little bit more about that too, because

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Speaker 5: he he was He worked with with Kenny and Leon

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Speaker 5: on his first record. But I, you know, I worked

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Speaker 5: with Bobby Martin. Bobby Martin arranged the first single that

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Speaker 5: I that I did, and I didn't even know who

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Speaker 5: he was. We we were looking I was. It was

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Speaker 5: basically my high school band and we wanted to make

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Speaker 5: a record. We went We went down to North broad

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Speaker 5: Street to a place called Virtue Studios. Frank Virtue, who

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Speaker 5: who had a song called Guitar Booge Shuffle that was

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Speaker 5: his claim to fame.

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Speaker 3: It was an instrumental okay.

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Speaker 5: He had a small had a small studio on North

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Speaker 5: broad Street and we recorded this track and Frank Virtue,

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Speaker 5: who was the owner and the engineer, he said, man,

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Speaker 5: you guys need some work. He said, I'm going to

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Speaker 5: introduce you to somebody. He gave me Bobby Martin's number,

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Speaker 5: and we went down and paid him a visit and

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Speaker 5: he was working out of a small office just south

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Speaker 5: of a city hall on Broad Street, and he arranged

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Speaker 5: it and kind of he kind of you know, gave

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Speaker 5: us a little professional you know, spit and polish and

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Speaker 5: made made it sound good. So so we were both

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Speaker 5: Darryl and I were kind of involved with the core

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Speaker 5: of the Gamble and enough people before they became kind

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Speaker 5: of gambling off.

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Speaker 2: What was your group situation before Hall of Notes or

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Speaker 2: was Darryl you're well?

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Speaker 5: I had I had a band called the Masters, and

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Speaker 5: Daryl had a group called the Temptones. Daryl's group was

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Speaker 5: pretty much a four part an a cappella group, very

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Speaker 5: similar to the Temptations. That's why they call themselves the Temptones.

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Speaker 5: Really yeah, and my group was more of a combo,

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Speaker 5: you know. It was funny I used that word combo.

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Speaker 5: Nobody uses that word anymore, right, It was you know, guitar, bass, drums.

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Speaker 5: We had a trumpet and a trombone and a saxophone. Uh.

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Speaker 5: I got my sister to sing background. So we were

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Speaker 5: like our self contained, you know, rhythm section and vocals,

289
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Speaker 5: and we did all you know, we did. We did

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Speaker 5: what bands did in those days. We played the hits,

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Speaker 5: We played the songs that we heard on the radio,

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Speaker 5: and you know, leaning a lot on on the stuff

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Speaker 5: that came out of Stax and Volt too. I did

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Speaker 5: a lot of that, and I did a lot of

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Speaker 5: Curtis Mayfield as well.

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Speaker 2: So for you, though, as a teenager, did you instantly

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Speaker 2: know that you wanted to be in the music business

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Speaker 2: or were you just rolling with the win and see

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Speaker 2: what would happen.

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Speaker 5: I don't think I had a choice, you know, And

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Speaker 5: I'm not bragging when I say this, but I've never

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Speaker 5: had a job. The only thing I've ever done is

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Speaker 5: play music. Is this thing I've had to have in

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Speaker 5: a job, was teaching guitar lessons when I was in college.

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Speaker 5: So that's I'm a blessed, a very very grateful person

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Speaker 5: because I got to do what I you know, what

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Speaker 5: I think I was born to do.

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Speaker 3: All right, So how did you meet Darryl?

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Speaker 5: Well, it's a it's an unusual story. His he the

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Speaker 5: Timptones had recorded on Jimmy Bishop's label. Jimmy Bishop you

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Speaker 5: might know it was was the top DJ on w D.

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Speaker 7: As their family is legendary in Philly.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, and uh so Darryl. Darryl was signed to

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Speaker 5: and I think it was Arctic Records. Uh, he'll tell you.

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Speaker 5: He'll give you all the details on that. On his side.

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Speaker 5: And this this group I had, as I said, it

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Speaker 5: is called the Masters. And we made this track with

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Speaker 5: Bobby Martin and went down to the record museum on

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Speaker 5: Chestnut Street and said, hey, we made a record and

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Speaker 5: the guy said, let me hear it, put it on

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Speaker 5: the turntable, said what are you going to do? I said, well,

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Speaker 5: we're looking for we won't put it out. He said,

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Speaker 5: sign here, threw a piece of paper in front of me,

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Speaker 5: and of course I was, you know, I'd sign an

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Speaker 5: I'd sign anything ship. In fact, I think that was

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Speaker 5: I think I did that way too many times in

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Speaker 5: my career. But that's another story enough. You don't have

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Speaker 5: enough time for that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, I got to ask

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Speaker 2: you about the seventies years.

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Speaker 5: But we but we did get you know, So my

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Speaker 5: song is getting played on H A T and D

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Speaker 5: A S. Darryl's song was getting played, so we were

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Speaker 5: both aware of each other, but I didn't I didn't

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Speaker 5: know him, and we were individually invited to a record

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Speaker 5: hop that Jimmy Bishop was doing out in West Philly

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Speaker 5: at the del Fi Ballroom. Del Fi Ballroom, right, you know.

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Speaker 5: And so we went out there and we were standing backstage.

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Speaker 5: It was an afternoon teenage thing. It was the Five

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Speaker 5: Stair Steps Howard Tate. Howard Tate had a song called

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Speaker 5: Look a Granny, Run Run, And so Howard Tate Five

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Speaker 5: Stair Steps, me and Daryl's group in my group, and

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Speaker 5: we literally didn't know each other, and but I had

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Speaker 5: heard his record, he had heard my record. And then

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Speaker 5: a gang fight broke out in the crowd, and so yeah,

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Speaker 5: so we all went down and we never even got

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Speaker 5: to perform. We were gonna lip sync our record. We

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Speaker 5: went down onto the street level and when we went downstairs,

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Speaker 5: we went, hey, man, I saw you. Yeah, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 5: I said, And we were both going to Temple University

351
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Speaker 5: and I started seeing him around the school on Broad Street.

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Speaker 7: But John, excuse me, I have to ask you because

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Speaker 7: it sounds like so regular. This isn't the no, this

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Speaker 7: is in the sixties, correct.

355
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Speaker 5: Yeah, this was a team. This would have been nineteen

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Speaker 5: sixty eight.

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Speaker 7: So the question is was it common Because DAS at

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Speaker 7: the time was still an R and B station, right,

359
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Speaker 7: And I'm guessing that Mary Mason and then we're playing

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Speaker 7: nothing but R and B music. So how common was

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Speaker 7: it that two dudes, too white dudes, two different groups

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Speaker 7: had music on these black radio stations.

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Speaker 5: Well, did you ever hear our music?

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Speaker 7: I mean, yeah I did, But I'm just saying to

365
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Speaker 7: you that in the moment though, in the moment.

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Speaker 5: Hey listen, we we were accepted by the black music

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Speaker 5: community long before we were accepted by the white, white

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Speaker 5: rock and roll community. So it was not a surprise

369
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Speaker 5: to us at all when our records crossed over. You know,

370
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Speaker 5: that was totally seemed normal to me. We just made

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Speaker 5: the music that we made, you know. I mean, if

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Speaker 5: you grow up in the Philadelphia area and you listened

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Speaker 5: to Philadelphia radio and you're kid, you're gonna make the

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Speaker 5: music that goes in your head, you know. And so

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Speaker 5: we made the music that that we made, and it,

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Speaker 5: I guess must have done something right, so, you know.

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Speaker 2: But for you, but for you growing up in that

378
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Speaker 2: time period, you weren't at all drawn to, uh, the

379
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Speaker 2: other acts of the era, era like the Dovell's or.

380
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Speaker 3: You know, like the Frankie Avalin.

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Speaker 5: Dan You're like, yeah, you're talking about the Cameo Parkway era.

382
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Well, you.

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Speaker 5: See what happened was when Darryl and I first met,

384
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Speaker 5: two of the guys in my band got drafted into Vietnam.

385
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Speaker 5: My band fell apart. Daryl's group was kind of falling

386
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Speaker 5: apart anyway, so I joined up with him as a

387
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Speaker 5: guitar player, backup guitar player, and when both groups fell apart,

388
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Speaker 5: he and I gravitated toward each other and we started

389
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Speaker 5: we became songwriters. At the at the Schubert Schubert Building,

390
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Speaker 5: guy the guy named John Madera, and John Madera was

391
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Speaker 5: from the Cameo Parkway. He was the guy from the

392
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Speaker 5: Dovels and Chubby Checker and Frankie and uh, we knew

393
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Speaker 5: that that that that music was on its way out,

394
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Speaker 5: and you know, it was really the end of that

395
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Speaker 5: Cameo Parkway era. So but we you know, we knew,

396
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Speaker 5: we knew Lenn Barry and and all those guys. You know,

397
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Speaker 5: they were all around the whole time. And then at

398
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Speaker 5: the exact same time that Darren and I were writing

399
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Speaker 5: on the I think we were on the second floor,

400
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Speaker 5: Gamble and Huff opened their offices on the fourth floor

401
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Speaker 5: with Tommy Bell and everything. So we all kind of

402
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,160
Speaker 5: started at the same time.

403
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Speaker 4: That building that you were referring to was that kind

404
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Speaker 4: of like the Brill Building was.

405
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Speaker 5: The Philadelphia's version of the Brill Building. It was the

406
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Speaker 5: Super Theater building. Okay, we're still there, but there were

407
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Speaker 5: offices in it at the time. And yeah, so that's

408
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Speaker 5: how we started. And uh, you know, yeah, we knew

409
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Speaker 5: all those guys, and you know, we were involved in

410
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Speaker 5: that era. But as I said, the Dovels and Cheby

411
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Speaker 5: Checker and those guys werena you know, they were they

412
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Speaker 5: were they were the last year's model, you know, they

413
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Speaker 5: were kind of going out.

414
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Speaker 2: I went to Performing Arts school, uh for elementary at least,

415
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Speaker 2: even though it went up to high school. But oftentimes

416
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Speaker 2: we go to that Schubert Building to learn like our

417
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 2: musical craft, like take piano lessons over there, and take

418
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Speaker 2: drum lessons over there on Broad Street. Yeah, so you get,

419
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Speaker 2: you guys met when a gang fight was breaking out,

420
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Speaker 2: like yes, in your mind, like even like was how typical?

421
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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I was born way after like

422
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Speaker 2: the gang Wars. But you know, if you're a teenager

423
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Speaker 2: in the fifties and sixties, like how prevalent was gang

424
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Speaker 2: activity in Philadelphia?

425
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Speaker 5: You know, I think in the sixties the city was

426
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Speaker 5: much more integrated. There was, there wasn't as much violence.

427
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Speaker 5: I think a lot of the you know, the black

428
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,199
Speaker 5: black power movement, black pride movement really started more in

429
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Speaker 5: the seventies. And you know, by that time, Daryl and

430
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 5: I had gone on to New York. But you know,

431
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 5: and of course there was you know, there was racial

432
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Speaker 5: stuff happening all over the country, but we felt I

433
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Speaker 5: always felt very comfortable in Philadelphia, especially in the sixties.

434
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Speaker 5: I never had any problems with it. And you know,

435
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Speaker 5: if you really look at if you look at Gamble

436
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Speaker 5: and Huff at the great you know tsop rhythm section.

437
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 5: You know, it was an integrated rhythm section. You know,

438
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 5: black and white players playing working together in the studio.

439
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 5: And the head engineer, Joe Tarcia, he was a white,

440
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 5: white cat. And you know Vince Montana who did all

441
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 5: the string arrangements. You know, he's a white guy. But

442
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 5: so there was it was really it didn't feel that

443
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 5: unusual to me at the time.

444
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 2: So in your opinion, what year do you feel as

445
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 2: though what we know is the sound of Philadelphia, or

446
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: at least the first draft it does'tend to be the

447
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 2: less strings like that was Philly International, but you know,

448
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 2: like the earlier and trudest stage of like Gamble Records

449
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: before Philly International.

450
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 5: Before it was a little more raw.

451
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, So for you, like especially the stuff they did

452
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 2: on Atlantic, when do you feel is like the actual

453
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 2: sound of Philadelphia got established?

454
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 5: I think it happened around the same time, around nineteen seventy,

455
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 5: I would say, I feel like, you know, like you said,

456
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 5: the Little Sunny and the Intruders, the Delphonics, those records,

457
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 5: they were street records. They were essentially do wop records

458
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 5: with musical backing, you know, And it wasn't really until

459
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 5: later on when Tommy Bell, I think, was responsible for

460
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 5: adding a real high level of musical sophistication to what

461
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 5: was coming out of the game on Huff's Place. You know,

462
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 5: if you listen to Tommy Bell, and I mean his court

463
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 5: changes are so unbelievable and so unique and so complicated

464
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 5: really if you think about it, and you know, in

465
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 5: a way, and I had a conversation with it with

466
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 5: Burt Backerac about this. Tommy Bell was, to me, is

467
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 5: like the black Burt Backerac, you know. I mean you

468
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 5: listen to Burt backerac songs and the way he voiced

469
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 5: his chords, and you listen to Tommy Bell and the

470
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 5: way he voiced his chords. I think they were listening

471
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 5: to each other because I think there's a lot of

472
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 5: similarity there.

473
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 2: Could you talk about the period that led up to

474
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: the actual record deal with the Lenox.

475
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, it goes back to the shop building. We

476
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 5: were working with this guy, John Madera, and we were

477
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 5: just songwriters. We were kind of staff songwriters, and we would,

478
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 5: you know, we'd write some songs and he'd try to

479
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 5: pitch him for us, and nothing was really happening. And

480
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 5: he had done a deal with Chapel Music in New

481
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 5: York City. I guess he sold his catalog. And when

482
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 5: he sold his catalog, we kind of came along with

483
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 5: the deal. We were like his new writers, and so

484
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,239
Speaker 5: he was kind of bragging on us as the new

485
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 5: writers that he was bringing along with the sale of

486
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 5: his publishing catalog. So we went to New York City

487
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 5: and we auditioned for chap Music. Basically, you know, he

488
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 5: kind of it was, you know, he would show us off,

489
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 5: you know, and me and Daryl would play our little songs,

490
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 5: you know, that we had written, and Chapel Music seemed interested,

491
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 5: but then nothing would ever happen. So then go to

492
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 5: New York and we'd do a showcase, he and they,

493
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 5: just Daryl and I just the two of us. He'd

494
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 5: played piano, I played guitar, and it was like a

495
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 5: kind of a little bit kind of a folky R

496
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 5: and B duo kind of thing. And everybody always loved

497
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 5: what we did, but we never we never got any traction.

498
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 5: We'd go back to Philly and we'd find out that

499
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 5: and always the thing he'd always say to us is say, yeah,

500
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 5: they like you, but they passed. They passed. We couldn't

501
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 5: figure out why why they like us, But nobody ever

502
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 5: offered us a deal. And we later found out that

503
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 5: he was trying to cut deals on the side that

504
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 5: were just so so bad that nobody wanted to touch

505
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 5: us because it was just, you know, I don't want

506
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 5: to get into the music business. This the dark, seamy

507
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 5: side of the music business a little bit.

508
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 3: But that's act. That's no ex education. Though.

509
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, in Philly was it as was the the

510
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 2: what I will say, the mars Levy of it all.

511
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 3: Was that kind of a presence in Philadelphia as well.

512
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 5: Absolutely, it was all over the place. It was everywhere.

513
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 3: So when do you feel as though.

514
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 2: What I you know, for those who are listening to

515
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 2: the podcast, I'm sort of speaking on a kind of

516
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 2: the wise guy mafioso era of the music business where.

517
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 7: We thought, so he was following you, he was following you.

518
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I know we're following because we know each other.

519
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 5: But I'm speaking for the people.

520
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 3: I'm yeah, oh, yes, you represent the people.

521
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: However, you know, eventually, well, some of it's like that

522
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: episode of I don't know if you remember the Sopranos

523
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: when when uh uh, you know, Tony's guys were trying

524
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 2: to shake down the Starbucks and the person was trying

525
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: to like explain to them, like we're not a local,

526
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 2: like this is this is a chain they and they

527
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 2: sort of felt like dinosaurs.

528
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 3: It was like, oh, we can't shake.

529
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 2: Down, right And but for you when did that sort

530
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: of did that era ever end?

531
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 5: I think it did, and I think it kind of

532
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 5: went out in the seventies. And by that time, Daryl

533
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 5: and I were so frustrated because we couldn't get anything

534
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 5: going and every you know, it was very frustrating to

535
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 5: have people like like what you did, but yet not

536
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 5: respond to you. And we we we got to the

537
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 5: point where we couldn't deal with it anymore, and we

538
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 5: we kind of put our pulled our money together. We

539
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 5: you know, we didn't have anything at the time. I mean,

540
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 5: you know, if I could buy a cheese steak, you know,

541
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 5: it was a big deal for me. You know, so

542
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 5: we pulled we pulled our money together when we flew

543
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 5: to California and neither of us had ever been to

544
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 5: California before, and we didn't know that you had to

545
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 5: have a car when you got there. We we just

546
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 5: we just showed up. We just shut up. This guy

547
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 5: from Chapel Music picked us up at the airport and

548
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 5: he let us stay at his house and he said,

549
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 5: I'm going to get you you know, I'm going to

550
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 5: let you guys play for few people and see what happens.

551
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 5: We just thought maybe California would give us a chance,

552
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 5: and sure enough, we played for this guy at his house,

553
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 5: literally in his living room, and he was friends with

554
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 5: Amed Erdigan, had Atlantic Records, very good friends they were.

555
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 5: He was actually he wasn't really a musician. He was

556
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,479
Speaker 5: an art dealer, but amed Erdigan was a big art

557
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 5: collector and that that's I guess that was their thing.

558
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 5: So we played at this guy's living room and this

559
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 5: guy said, he started it was funny. We played a

560
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 5: couple of songs and he started laughing, and we said,

561
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 5: what's up? What's the deal? He goes, are you guys

562
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 5: for real? We were like yeah, and he's like, why

563
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 5: are you playing in my living room? He goes, how

564
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 5: come you don't have a record contract? I said, well,

565
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 5: we can't get one. We got them this guy in Philly,

566
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 5: who you know, can't help us, and we don't know

567
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 5: what to do. I mean, it was kind of crazy,

568
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 5: and he said, I'm gonna call on it. He says,

569
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 5: you guys go back to Atlantic and you auditioned for them,

570
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 5: and we went okay, and so we flew back to

571
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 5: Philly and then we went took the train to New

572
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 5: York and we walked into a room with Jerry Greenberg,

573
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 5: who was the president of Atlantic at the time, and

574
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,479
Speaker 5: Reef Martin and we played our songs just like we

575
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 5: did every time we played, and a Reef stood up

576
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 5: at the end and said, I want to produce these guys.

577
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 5: That was it? Wow, record deal?

578
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 3: What was it like working with him?

579
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 2: Because I became familiar with the Reef because of I

580
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 2: guess my love for the average white band records. That's

581
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: when I started seeing his name on a lot of

582
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: the crow But at the time, were you excited were

583
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: you familiar with his track record with like Aretha?

584
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 5: I was. I was very, very familiar with a Reef.

585
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 5: I thought the Aretha stuff and in particular, his arrangements

586
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 5: were so spectacular and so beautiful string arrangements and just

587
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 5: his just his musical sensibility. And you know, he was

588
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 5: an interesting guy because he was he was Turkish, and

589
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 5: he had this deep, deep love for American jazz and

590
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 5: American music. What was great about a Reef was he

591
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 5: thought like a pure musician. He didn't care about styles

592
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 5: and genres and what was hip or what was happening

593
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 5: at the moment. He just cared about what would serve

594
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 5: the song the best. He he thought like a classical,

595
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 5: like a classical arranger. He you know, if it needed

596
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 5: an obo and in a viola, he would do an

597
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 5: obo and a viola. He had no there was no

598
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 5: it was no kind of thing. Well, so and so

599
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 5: is doing this. This is the sounds on the radio,

600
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 5: so let's do something like that. It had nothing to

601
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 5: do with that, and he was I learned so much.

602
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 5: In fact, I think every recording session I've ever done

603
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 5: since that time, I pretty much tried to conduct the

604
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 5: way he did. He just put the best people possible

605
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 5: in the room, the best players that he thought was

606
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 5: appropriate for the music in the room, and he just

607
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 5: guided them and let them do what they did. But

608
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 5: he just kind of guided them. He never asserted himself

609
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 5: and made it seem like he was running the show.

610
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 5: He was always there, and he was always made sure

611
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 5: that he got exactly what he wanted. But he never

612
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 5: was out there telling, oh, you do this and you

613
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 5: do this, and so it was really it was really

614
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,719
Speaker 5: an education to be with him and to see what

615
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 5: you know. When we were doing the second album with him,

616
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,959
Speaker 5: he was producing The Divine Miss m with Bette Miller,

617
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 5: so we'd leave the studio, Bette Miller would come in.

618
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 5: And then he was doing the John Primee album, the

619
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 5: first John Prine album, which was an unbelievable album. So

620
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 5: he was doing singer songwriters, he was doing R and

621
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 5: b's did he did Solomon Burke, he did Hubert Laws,

622
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 5: the jazz. So, I mean, he was all over the

623
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 5: map because he was so good as a as a

624
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 5: just as a musician. He didn't care what it was.

625
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 5: It was just music to him, pure music. And I

626
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 5: think that's what I learned from him.

627
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 2: So Okay, so back then I know that the this

628
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 2: sort of I mean, the technology.

629
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 3: Is different than the eighties than it was the seventies.

630
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 2: But when you're working on an album, like is is

631
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: he having is it one on one time with him

632
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: or is it for him like a day job where

633
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, I got a refill on Tuesday, and

634
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 2: Donny Hathaway on Wednesday. Yeah, all notes, I'll squeeze you

635
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: guys in him for three hours, so it's not like

636
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: he's spending No, he.

637
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 5: Didn't squeeze us in. He didn't squeeze us in. We

638
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 5: had full day sessions or full night sessions, mostly day sessions,

639
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 5: and he usually did two sessions a day. So yes,

640
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 5: we would be in there for maybe eleven to five

641
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 5: or something like that, and he would take a dinner

642
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 5: break and maybe he would have another session that evening.

643
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 5: But we worked, I mean, we know, we worked. We

644
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 5: were right there, I.

645
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: Mean right in the thick of it, and it didn't

646
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: feel like cutting paste to you like in terms of

647
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: you know, me and I spend more time with him.

648
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 5: I we felt, we felt that he cared as much

649
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 5: for us as he did for any of the other

650
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 5: artists working with and you know, he put us. We

651
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 5: didn't have a band at the time. It was just

652
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 5: Daryln and I, So our rhythm section for that second

653
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 5: album was Bernard Purdy, Gordon Edwards, Richard T. H mc craken,

654
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 5: Dave's Finosa. Yeah, these are the kind of players we

655
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 5: were with, and so for the first time Darryl and

656
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 5: I got to play with these, you know. I mean,

657
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 5: we had Joe Farrell the saxophone solo and She's Gone

658
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 5: is Joe Farrell?

659
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: Yeah? Oh wow?

660
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 5: You know, so we had we had jazz musicians and

661
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 5: R and B musicians and classical musicians, and you know,

662
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 5: it was just an amazing thing to be He just

663
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 5: he would hear our songs and then he would think,

664
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 5: I know who's right for this, and he would make

665
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 5: the call. We didn't even know who we'd be walking

666
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 5: into that day, but we knew that whoever we walked

667
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 5: into that day was going to be just right for

668
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 5: the music we were making.

669
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 2: Okay, I have a question about abandoned Ntenette. Yeah, specifically

670
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 2: She's Gone. Yep, yeah, Okay, So I've gone through this

671
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: story a lot of times in the Pandemic where it's

672
00:34:54,719 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 2: something about keys modulating that scare the living beg this

673
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 2: out of me, and you know, I mean, be honest,

674
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: like you guys were definitely for drama with the the

675
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: end build up of She's Going, But whose idea was

676
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 2: it to just do those five modulations?

677
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 3: Like is this going to be the key? You know?

678
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 3: Is this going to be the key? Is going to be.

679
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 5: Talking about.

680
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 2: At the very end of she's going there's like just

681
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 2: just are you know, like in a soap opera where

682
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 2: you have.

683
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 3: That sort of thing. So there's a part of the.

684
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 4: Song or like the end of I'm trying for something

685
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 4: for our for our listeners understand Love on Top by Beyonce,

686
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 4: like Growing Up, Yeah, it's magic, it's like fourteen times whatever, yeah.

687
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 3: Right, or Golden Lady by Stevie.

688
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: But the thing is, to me, it's I always knew

689
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 2: the boogie man was waiting for me at the end

690
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 2: of every Mirror.

691
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 8: You got to get over this at some point, man.

692
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what.

693
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 5: I you know, I believe that that was That was

694
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 5: a reef's idea to do that, and it was it's

695
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 5: kind of a cheap shot to modulate to to kind

696
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 5: of you know, to Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm

697
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 5: gonna make this song more exciting because I'm gonna modulate

698
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 5: up a half step. I'm gonna take it up. But

699
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 5: I'll tell you what, Darryl and I have modulated four

700
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 5: times in that song. We never modulated again in the

701
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 5: rest of our career. That's all I got to say

702
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 5: about that, okay.

703
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: But there's also okay, what's even stranger about that? Is

704
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 2: one of the very first musical videos I've ever seen.

705
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 3: Was She's Gone. One of the strangest things.

706
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: I believe where I see She's going.

707
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 3: I think, Jerry Blabbitt, I know where you saw it.

708
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 5: You saw it, you saw I'm Philadelph a TV on

709
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 5: a dance show, on a teenage show.

710
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 3: I did.

711
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 5: We got a store, I got a story. I got

712
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 5: a story for you.

713
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 2: So the thing is is that I remember I was

714
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 2: I was five years old.

715
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 3: I believe that you guys actually did have a devil.

716
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: You know, a woman was a devil. So whatever the

717
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: lyrics were, I payed the devil to replacement. I remember

718
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: you guys sitting on a you guys were sitting on

719
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: a couch, and I just.

720
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 3: Remember a devil was running around in this video.

721
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: Which the thing is is that, you know, for listeners

722
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: that don't know music, videos was a promotion tool so

723
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 2: in case you couldn't go overseas and tour, they could

724
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 2: at least have something to play on those top of

725
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: the Pop shows or Shindig or any of those shows

726
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 2: that you weren't able to get to you know, if

727
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 2: you weren't big enough to fly to Europe, so you

728
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 2: would make performance videos. But soon afterwards, uh, they started

729
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 2: putting some concepts in there, like Frank Zappa do some

730
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: concept videos. So I definitely remember this being a concept video.

731
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: But for you guys, did you because you used music

732
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: videos to your advance, do you feel the time like

733
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: this was advantageous to the song in your career?

734
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 5: Well, you have to remember this was over ten years

735
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 5: before MTV.

736
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, what happened, And I'll tell you what happened.

737
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 5: She's going to begin to get some popularity, was on

738
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 5: the charts. They wanted us to lip sync our song

739
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 5: at a show in New Jersey or at the at

740
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 5: the Steel Peer. It was called ed Herst Summertime at

741
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 5: the Pier. It was a teenage dancer, right was Saturday afternoon,

742
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 5: Saturday afternoon, right, yeah, yes, So Daryl and I were

743
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 5: thinking about it and we said, wait a minute, I said,

744
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 5: we can't go down to the Steel Pier, and Liz

745
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 5: sank she's gone, while a bunch of kids started to

746
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,919
Speaker 5: dance to it to where we said, So we said

747
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 5: to them, can we just come to the studio and

748
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 5: just we record the song, you know, video tape the song,

749
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 5: and then you can show that they didn't know what

750
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 5: we were going to do though, So let's just remember

751
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 5: it was nineteen seventy two. Yes, whatever we were doing

752
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 5: at the time, there was a let's put it this way,

753
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 5: there was some mine altering substances both there you go, okay.

754
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 5: So we decided that we were gonna do this weird

755
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 5: thing where we brought literally the furniture from our apartment

756
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 5: and my sister, who was a student at Temple University,

757
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 5: she was going to direct it. The girl who walks

758
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 5: by in the video is Sarah Daryl's girlfriend from Sarah Smile,

759
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 5: and the devil was some kid from Long Island who

760
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 5: is our road manager. We rented in a devil suit.

761
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 5: I rented a penguin suit with flippers and was wearing

762
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 5: the bathroom. So I would encourage anyone out there who

763
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 5: has not seen this video to go on YouTube.

764
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 2: Oh wow, it never wants it. That's so weird, Like

765
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: I have a list of child memories that not once

766
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: anything like yo, I gotta I totally forgot to see.

767
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 2: Was it ever on YouTube? It is?

768
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 5: You can watch it. So we so we did this

769
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 5: and they got so angry. They got so pissed off

770
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 5: at us because they thought we were mocking them, and

771
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 5: I guess in the way we were. But anyway, so

772
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 5: they told us. They got mad. They called, they called

773
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 5: Atlantic Records and said, these guys will never get played

774
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 5: on Philadelphia radio. Who do they think they are? Well, oh,

775
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 5: it was. It was bad, and we had a backpedal

776
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 5: to all this stuff with the record company and we

777
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 5: were just having a crazy time because we were that's

778
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 5: where we were at. And uh so, anyway, that's how

779
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 5: that happened.

780
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 3: You know, my dad had a lot of records in

781
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 3: the house.

782
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: Shortly thereafter, almost immediately as that song is going to

783
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 2: the charts, I know that Tavars it also covered She's Gone,

784
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 2: So there was This is almost the same similar situation

785
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: with the Fifth Dimension in Dinah Ross, like releasing Love

786
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: Hangover at the same time, like Tavars and Hall of

787
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 2: Notes are kind of fighting for airplay time for She's

788
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:32,919
Speaker 2: Gone at the time.

789
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 3: Were you guys cool?

790
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 5: No, I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you, but

791
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 5: not quite. We have released We had released She's Gone

792
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 5: and went into the top forty, but it didn't go

793
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 5: much higher than that. Then after that, Tavaris recorded and

794
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 5: went to number one. It was a number one R

795
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:48,439
Speaker 5: and B record.

796
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, that's what I do, the Tavares version.

797
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 5: And people said people, people said, oh, man, you believe

798
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 5: it's just number one R and B record. Darrenly are like, yeah,

799
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 5: that makes perfect sense to me. And then we released

800
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 5: it again after Tarvaris, when Sarah Smile was out and

801
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 5: it went into the it was I would think it

802
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 5: went to number two.

803
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 2: Man, okay, but you got you guys were fine and

804
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 2: cool with that.

805
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 3: Then you know, hey, no, I was happy.

806
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 5: But even Lou Rawls got that song.

807
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 3: That's right.

808
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: The next record with war Babies, could you talk about

809
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 2: working with Todd Todd Rundren on that record.

810
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, we had moved to New York City, and

811
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 5: so the war Babies record was a direct a reaction

812
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 5: to leaving Philadelphia and being in New York and experiencing

813
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 5: New York and the difference between New York and Philadelphia.

814
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 5: New York was so big, much bigger and more faster

815
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 5: and chaotic, and you know, and and we we really

816
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 5: you know, even though the Abandoned Lunch and Net was

817
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 5: a great record, it's still one of my favorites. It

818
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 5: didn't really it wasn't very successful. So at the time,

819
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 5: the record business was completely different than it is now,

820
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 5: you know, I mean, you know how it is now.

821
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 5: If you if you if you don't have a hit

822
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 5: on your first record, making a second record, yeah, yeah, Well,

823
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 5: in those days, record companies signed you because they actually

824
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 5: believed that you could have a career that maybe you know,

825
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 5: you could evolve and develop creatively. So but we had

826
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 5: no we had no reason to do the same type

827
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 5: of record because it wasn't successful. So we said, well,

828
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 5: let's just try something different. And you know, Todd had

829
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 5: having moved from Philly to New York. We figured he'd

830
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 5: have something, you know, he could relate to it. To

831
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 5: be honest with you, we were just trying to be experimental.

832
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 5: We were trying to push the boundaries and see how

833
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 5: far we could go. It's it's not one of my

834
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 5: favorite records. I didn't feel comfortable in that style. It

835
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 5: was a lot more I think. I think the thing

836
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 5: about Todd and his style of production is that you know,

837
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 5: if you if you want Todd Runger and you get

838
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 5: Todd Runger, you know, there's no denying what you're going

839
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 5: to get. And so you know, for me personally, not

840
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 5: one of my favorites, but I think it did. Was

841
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 5: it It gave us the ability to be more kind

842
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 5: of in that in that experimental rock genre. And then

843
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 5: going forward, we we combined, we combined the Philly R

844
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 5: and B the folky stuff that we were doing, and

845
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 5: that war Baby's thing all together and that's what enabled

846
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 5: us to find a sound of our own.

847
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 2: So for your the next record, I mentioned this at

848
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 2: the Rock and Mall Hall of Fame. Uh the record.

849
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know what you're gonna say, Who's.

850
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 2: Whose idea was it for the cover design to do

851
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 2: the because you know, the Androgis thing was coming into

852
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 2: play with what Bowie was doing, and I think, like

853
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: I think the Stones did, it would go ted suit

854
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 2: like for you what was the the marketing idea of

855
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 2: that cover and.

856
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 5: It was That's exactly what it was. It was. It

857
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 5: was a moment in time. That's what was happening in

858
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 5: New York City and Greenwich Village at the time. You know,

859
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 5: it was Rick Darringer.

860
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 9: Tyrung Gren, Mick Jagger, Bowie and we were you know,

861
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 9: we caught up in that whole down scene that was

862
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 9: happening in Philly, in New York or rather, and we

863
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 9: met this guy named Pierre Laroche, who was the stylist

864
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 9: for all those records, for every.

865
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 5: One of those records that you mentioned, and I remember

866
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 5: we had dinner with him and he said, I remember

867
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 5: what he said. He said, I will immortalize you. And

868
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 5: you know what, it's the only the only album cover

869
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 5: anyone ever asked us about, and it has nothing to

870
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 5: do with the music inside.

871
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: But see about hdo But okay, of course, the breakout

872
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 2: single from that is Sarah Smile. At this time, are

873
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: you guys coining the term blue eyed soul?

874
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 5: Like?

875
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 3: How you know?

876
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 5: We never really liked that phrase, you know. To me,

877
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 5: to be honest with you, I just think, you know,

878
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 5: it's to me, it's kind of offensive. And I'll tell

879
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 5: you why I think it. It kind of takes white

880
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 5: guys trying to sound black guys, okay, And I don't

881
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 5: think that's what we do. I think we sound like

882
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 5: the way we sound, and if we've got soul, then

883
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 5: good and I hope it comes through, and you know,

884
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 5: to me, and I don't. I don't want to get

885
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 5: too philosophical about this. But to me, soul is not

886
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 5: is doesn't belong to any race, creed, nationality. I mean,

887
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 5: you know, I hear music. I hear soulful music and

888
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 5: all sorts of music around the world. I mean, you know,

889
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 5: there's Irish music that's very soulful, there's American Indian music

890
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 5: is unbelievably soulful. So I think soul is a thing

891
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 5: that touches you. It moves you emotionally, and that's what

892
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 5: soul is. If you hear music that makes you move,

893
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 5: whether it's physically move or makes your your your emotions move.

894
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 5: To me, that's what soul is. So at least I

895
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 5: got it out on the table.

896
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 8: It's very similar to what Bonnie read that yeah on

897
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 8: our show as well with Crutch of the Blues and

898
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 8: her experience growing up listening to that stuff.

899
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 4: Other Avana is like you know, the I think from

900
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 4: when I listen to artists. You know, if it was

901
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 4: white artists, I think, more so than anything, you just

902
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 4: want to see those artists give credit to what they

903
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 4: grew up on.

904
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.

905
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 4: I don't think it's you know what I'm saying, And

906
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 4: you know that's what I kind of always saw with

907
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 4: you guys, and just with the white artists that kind

908
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 4: of fell into that, you know, that what you call

909
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 4: blue out soul, like a Mike McDonald or whatever. You know,

910
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 4: they always bigged up the stuff that they grew up on.

911
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 4: And I think the only time it really becomes an

912
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 4: issue is when you know, a white artist is.

913
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 3: Like, oh no, this is just all me.

914
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 4: It's like, no, the fuck it ain't, you know what

915
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 4: I mean, That's that's where the problem comes in. But

916
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 4: I agree, I mean, it's you can find the elements

917
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 4: of soul in all music. It's a feeling more so

918
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 4: than it is just a genre or whatever.

919
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 5: You're You're absolutely right, it's we you know, we were

920
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 5: all products of what came before us. You know, we

921
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 5: we there's not one person on this planet who just

922
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 5: comes out of the womb and is a total, unique original.

923
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 5: Maybe there are a few. What we do and who

924
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 5: we are is about our It's our It's in our DNA,

925
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 5: it's in our upbringing, it's in the place we live,

926
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 5: it's in the experiences that we experience, and that's who

927
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 5: we are. And you know, and I've I've always made

928
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 5: a point to uh, to be very clear that you know,

929
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 5: to point to my roots and the music that that

930
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 5: made me who I am, and I honor it and

931
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 5: I try to and I'm very respectful for it, and

932
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 5: I always try to to make sure that you know,

933
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,959
Speaker 5: people understand that, hey, this is where it all comes from.

934
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 3: Facts.

935
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: I think on this record, well, one you guys are

936
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 2: producing it, and two, yeah, you have the monsters on here.

937
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 2: So I could assume that Ed Green is drumming on

938
00:48:57,880 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: Sarah's Smile.

939
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 5: I believe it was at Green on Sara. We had

940
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 5: three out three drummers on that record.

941
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 2: Well, based on them drum fills, I hope that you

942
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 2: know Ed Greham of Barry White fame and whatnot.

943
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 3: And also on bass h Leland.

944
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 5: Clark, Yes, yes, and we had Scotti Edwards as well

945
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 5: on the.

946
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 3: Base and here's Steve right back. Yeah.

947
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 2: I love when you're using when you're using these uh,

948
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 2: these monster musicians, like can you just because I will

949
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 2: also say that consistent levels. But once you get to

950
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 2: the Faces album that you guys capture and consistent you know,

951
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 2: I know that musicians were quote unquote diamond doesn't in

952
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 2: the seventies and whatnot, But how do you is it

953
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 2: just a matter of whoever's available, or is there a

954
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 2: particular musician that you're looking for to give you a

955
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: particul or it sound like, how do you grab the

956
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 2: musician that you want and how do you know who's

957
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 2: the best guy to use?

958
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 5: You know, musicians through their reputation obviously, you know. But

959
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 5: the Silver album that won with Sarah Small on it,

960
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 5: that was the first album that we made in California.

961
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 5: We made that in LA. And we made that in

962
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 5: LA for a reason. We had an interest for Bond,

963
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 5: who was actually from Philadelphia, who was in our band

964
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 5: very briefly, and he went to LA to try to

965
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 5: make his mark as a session player and a producer.

966
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 5: And after the Todd Runggern album when that didn't connect,

967
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 5: and you know, we realized that wasn't the right direction either,

968
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,439
Speaker 5: he said, you guys should come to LA because I've

969
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 5: got great musicians, I've got the best studios. Come out here,

970
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 5: and we should make the record out here. And so

971
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 5: we took a leap of faith. We just said, hey, man,

972
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 5: why not and we went to We went to California,

973
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 5: and you know, in the mid seventies in California, they

974
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 5: did have the best recording studios in the country. It

975
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 5: was all the best recording technologies, best engineers, and Chris found,

976
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 5: uh you know, he found he was friends with Ed

977
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 5: Green and and he brought in Lee Scarr and you know,

978
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 5: we had Jeff Bercaro, and we had who was it

979
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 5: who else on drums, Jim Keltner. Yeah, we had all

980
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 5: all sorts of amazing musicians and they were all available

981
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 5: because we were in LA. So it was definitely it

982
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 5: was definitely a new experience to be in l A

983
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,399
Speaker 5: and record with those guys. And yeah, we got great

984
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 5: results and we made three albums in LA.

985
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 2: So there was was there truth to the rumor that

986
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 2: you guys were initially going to do something for the

987
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,280
Speaker 2: Rocky soundtrack because of the Philly connection at one point

988
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 2: for the first movie.

989
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, there was a song called Grounds for Separation. Grounds

990
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 5: for Separation was on on that album and uh so

991
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 5: Lesser Stallone. Uh he used that song as temp music

992
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 5: in the in the in the movie when they were editing.

993
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 5: And you know how it, you know it is with

994
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 5: a film. If you start using music, you kind of

995
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 5: you kind of get get married to it and you

996
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 5: can't demo.

997
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 3: That's the movie game.

998
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 5: You know, I have no idea why it didn't happen,

999
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 5: but it was a big mistake.

1000
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 3: Your Oh it's nail on the matole. Okay, all right,

1001
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 3: I don't know you know what, I.

1002
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 5: Don't know who. I don't know who thought that was

1003
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 5: wasn't a good idea. But whoever thought it wasn't a

1004
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 5: good idea wasn't too sure. Actually asked Daryl about that. Yes,

1005
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 5: Darrel about that?

1006
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 2: Who have a good I will ask Darryl about that? Okay, Well, okay,

1007
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 2: for what I what I'm allowed to ask about him

1008
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 2: was were you his first clients? Yes, okay, so you

1009
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 2: had him when he was like a twenty year old,

1010
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 2: like out of college or something.

1011
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 5: Well, let's if you can, if we can wind back

1012
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 5: a little bit to that story I told you about

1013
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 5: when we were going from Philly to New York auditioning

1014
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 5: at Chapel Music. On one of those trips, when we

1015
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 5: went and played our new songs for Chapel Music when

1016
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 5: we were songwriters, this young kid, Tommy Mattola was in

1017
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 5: the room. He was a song plugger for Chapel Music

1018
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 5: at the time, and after one of those sessions he

1019
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 5: came up to it said, well, you know, what do

1020
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 5: you guys, what's what's your deal? And we're like, we

1021
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 5: don't have a deal, and we got nothing going on.

1022
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 5: We're you know, we're playing our songs for people. People

1023
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 5: seem to like him, but nothing's happening. He goes, let

1024
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 5: me see if I can help you, and that's how

1025
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 5: he became our manager. He basically he had never managed

1026
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 5: anybody in his life, and he was just a He

1027
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 5: was the same age as us, and you know, we

1028
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 5: were in our twenties early twenties, and he said, I

1029
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 5: think I can help you, and he started to help us.

1030
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 5: And when we wanted to break out of our deal

1031
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 5: with that guy and Philly, we he kind of helped

1032
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 5: us with that, and that's how he became our manager for.

1033
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 2: The Bigger and both of us records that has a

1034
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 2: rich girl on Can I ask was it was your label?

1035
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 3: Ever?

1036
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 2: Do they ever ask you, guys to slightly change the

1037
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 2: lyric to get on radio. I'm only okay, I'm only

1038
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 2: asking this, and I hate bringing up the story. When

1039
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 2: you're young and you live with strict parents, it's not

1040
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 2: like it comes with a manual on words that you're

1041
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 2: allowed to say and not allowed to say, it's just that,

1042
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,879
Speaker 2: you know, it's a curse word if you get hit

1043
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 2: and you said the word and didn't.

1044
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 3: Know it was a curse word. So of course I'm

1045
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 3: reading the song lyrics and I kept singing it's a

1046
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 3: bitch girl, and I sat, oh wow.

1047
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, okay, let's let's think about that. Let's think

1048
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 5: about that in the context of the music that's out

1049
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 5: there today.

1050
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 3: I'm not blaming off for it.

1051
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 5: No, no, no, I'm not. I'm laughing about it because

1052
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 5: it seems so silly to me. It's like crazy and

1053
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 5: you okay, so you know what they you know what?

1054
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 5: You know what happened with that? It was okay, here,

1055
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 5: here's here's I messed up the music businesses. It was

1056
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 5: okay for the album cut, but the single. We had

1057
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 5: to change it for the single. So they they they

1058
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 5: made Daryl go in the studio and sing brich. He

1059
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:32,879
Speaker 5: had to put an R in the words. If you

1060
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 5: listen to this single, it's britch. You can barely tell,

1061
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 5: but it's there. And so just by doing that, that

1062
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 5: was okay. It was so stupid.

1063
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 3: I guess the intention was bitch.

1064
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 5: I'm confused.

1065
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 3: Way the intention was bitch? Yeah, the lyric was bitch,

1066
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 3: but you couldn't say that, you.

1067
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 7: Couldn't on the radio and all my life, I did

1068
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:57,879
Speaker 7: not all my life and all my life.

1069
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 3: What do you think it was? She's a girl?

1070
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then then he goes back and says, it's

1071
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 2: a bitch girl.

1072
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 5: He does.

1073
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 3: You know what?

1074
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 7: Okay, I'm not the only one that in this moment.

1075
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 2: Are you familiar with the Philippe when One of a

1076
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 2: Kind love and fair story?

1077
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 5: No, I'm not familiar to the story, but he's one

1078
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 5: of my favorite singers of all time.

1079
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, he's He's definitely out there. He did a

1080
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 2: rogue move. I always wanted to know when how did

1081
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 2: he get kicked out the group? And this they can

1082
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 2: get it kicked out the group. But this sort of

1083
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 2: put the group on high alert that he could be rogue.

1084
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 2: So the next time you listen to One of a

1085
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 2: Kind of Love affair towards the end, I had gotten

1086
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 2: a forty five of this maybe back in nineteen ninety seven,

1087
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 2: and I saw that it said edited version, and at first, no, no,

1088
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 2: it said un censored version, censored version, And in my mind,

1089
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, this is the Spinners, not n W

1090
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 2: A like what could be censored on the Spinners thing?

1091
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,879
Speaker 2: And I happen to ask somebody who used to work

1092
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 2: at Atlantic, and they told me the story that basically

1093
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 2: Felipe in the very last rounds of that libs one

1094
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 2: of the kind of affairs he says, you know you

1095
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 2: want to love Hut, you just gotta fuck her, And yeah,

1096
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 2: he got away with it. I think they got away

1097
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 2: with it for like eleven weeks and then suddenly the

1098
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 2: FCC started, you know, like someone caught.

1099
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 3: It on the radio and then like kind of shit

1100
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 3: and he and he didn't deny it at all, So.

1101
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:53,919
Speaker 5: You know, I like him even more now.

1102
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1103
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: So could you could you talk about in your opinion,

1104
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 2: because you guys won't basically have kind of hit your

1105
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 2: stride at least with the hits until four years later.

1106
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 2: So that period in between, like with the Nigga Bays

1107
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 2: record with Beauty on Backstreet and uh, the the Livetime

1108
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: record like oh and also the I think Ecstatic for

1109
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 2: those five records, what was generally happening with you guys

1110
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 2: and in terms of where he wanted to go.

1111
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 5: And yeah, I can I can tell exactly what's happened.

1112
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 5: So we went down the La do that silver album

1113
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 5: and it was successful with Sarah Smile. Then she She's Done.

1114
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 5: That was successful. Then Rich Girl came on the next

1115
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 5: one that was successful. So I so we were a

1116
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 5: role and we were playing bigger you know, bigger arenas

1117
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 5: and things like that. Then came the Beauty on a

1118
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 5: Backstreet novel. And what happened was and I can I

1119
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 5: can tell this story because you know, God bless him.

1120
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 5: Chrispaond had passed away a few years ago. He was

1121
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 5: a brilliant musician and producer, but he was a very,

1122
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 5: very damaged individual, and as we got more successful, hegan

1123
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 5: to lose it and he began to overindulge in substance abuse.

1124
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 5: So when we went out to do the third album,

1125
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 5: which ended up being Beauty on a Backstreet, he was

1126
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 5: very very iraq. In fact, we had to cancel sessions

1127
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 5: because he passed out. It was cracked his head on

1128
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 5: the on the control, you know, on the on the console,

1129
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 5: and UH got to be taken a hospital. It was

1130
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 5: it was a bad scene and so he barely made

1131
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 5: through the album. And that album, to me, is the

1132
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 5: darkest thing we've ever done. And I don't really care

1133
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:49,919
Speaker 5: for it, and I never listened to that record ever.

1134
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 5: So what happened was because we had no hits and

1135
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 5: that record wasn't very successful, we kind of, you know,

1136
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,919
Speaker 5: kind of fell off the radar a little bit and there.

1137
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 5: And I think one of the smartest things we ever

1138
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 5: did during that period of time was we said, you know,

1139
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 5: we've been recording all our albums with studio musicians and

1140
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 5: it's been great, but what we really need is a

1141
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 5: great live band, and we need a live band that's

1142
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 5: so good that we can take that same band into

1143
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 5: the studio. And at the time, right at that time,

1144
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 5: Elton John was just finishing up the Yellow Brick Road,

1145
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 5: and we made friends with the Elton John band, which

1146
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 5: was Caleb Quay, Kenny Passilli, and Roger Pope, and we

1147
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 5: basically adopted them, and all of a sudden, we had

1148
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 5: this kick ass live band that we could take into

1149
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 5: the studio, and we did this album called Along the

1150
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 5: Red Ledge right, and we had a lot of guests

1151
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 5: on that album, and we bring David Foster, who had

1152
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 5: never produced a record before. We were his first artists

1153
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 5: David Foster ever produced.

1154
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 2: Oh this is the year before After the Love is

1155
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 2: Going so okay. So he worked with you guys first, and.

1156
01:00:58,480 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 5: I got to tell you about it After Love Is

1157
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 5: Gone too, because when we were getting ready to do

1158
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 5: the album with David Foster, he said, I got a

1159
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 5: song for you guys. Boy, oh yeah, and he said

1160
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 5: here check he had written it with Dave Graydon, yes,

1161
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 5: And so he sat Me and Darrel were sitting in

1162
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 5: his living room and he played it on the piano

1163
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 5: and he can't sing for ship, but he's an amazing

1164
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 5: Danna player, and he was singing and he was doing

1165
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 5: after the Love Is Gone, and we're like, yeah, yeah,

1166
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 5: I know vocals due. I mean, if you hear if

1167
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 5: you think about it now, you can hear us do

1168
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 5: it many major mistakes in our career.

1169
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 7: What did you think about when you heard the Earth

1170
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 7: Winning I was just curious.

1171
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 5: And he went and did it with earth Wind and Fire.

1172
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 3: When you you heard Earth Win five version, was that like?

1173
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:57,479
Speaker 3: Did did you get it then?

1174
01:01:57,840 --> 01:01:59,919
Speaker 4: In a way that maybe you didn't get when when

1175
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 4: David trying to sing it.

1176
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 5: I got it the first time.

1177
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 3: It's also fronte.

1178
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 2: It's also a little weird because even Philip himself says

1179
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 2: that that song for him was sort of like, yeah,

1180
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 2: it was a success, but you know, you also got

1181
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 2: to understand that Charles Stephanie just died and they I'm

1182
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 2: not saying they got back. It's weird to think of

1183
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 2: all in all as the earthword and fire gets by

1184
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 2: off the skin of their teeth. But just the fact

1185
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 2: that Marie was able to make that record without Charles

1186
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 2: and still do something lind blowing so wanted he had

1187
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,959
Speaker 2: that one record in him and then you know, called

1188
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 2: him for David to help him. But I remember a

1189
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 2: lot of fans kind of feeling the same way about

1190
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 2: After the Love Is Going is maybe like about cool

1191
01:02:55,440 --> 01:03:01,360
Speaker 2: in the Gang's here celebration or like yeah, it's like that.

1192
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 2: But now I think about it, man, it had all

1193
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 2: had all of it done after the Love Is Going,

1194
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 2: I think that that would have with the right musicianship,

1195
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 2: that probably could have just ousted Bobby Callwell.

1196
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 3: Just as far as love the.

1197
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 2: Definitive slow jam like yeah the Blue Eye like that, I.

1198
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 5: Mean, yeah, we would have crushed it.

1199
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 7: But it speaks to David Foster because the song was

1200
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 7: banging either way.

1201
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 5: Hey listen, Dave. David Foster wrote a great so he's

1202
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 5: an incredibly talented amazing guy, but he wasn't right for

1203
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 5: us as a producer. But at least, you know, we

1204
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 5: did get to work with him for a couple of albums.

1205
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 5: And then you mentioned Static. We brought David to New

1206
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 5: York to record that record because we didn't want to

1207
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 5: be in l A anymore. And he in the middle

1208
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 5: of that record, he said, what am I doing here?

1209
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 5: You guys are making this record yourself. You don't need me.

1210
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 5: And that was the last time we ever us an

1211
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 5: outside producer.

1212
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 2: It's almost like you guys became a brand new group

1213
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 2: with the Voices record.

1214
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 5: Another another career misstep. Really we uh we We were

1215
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 5: finally back in New York where we wanted to be,

1216
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 5: and we had a band that could that we finally

1217
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 5: achieved what we knew we needed to do. We had

1218
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 5: developed a live band that could play live and kick

1219
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 5: ass and we could take them in the studio and that.

1220
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 5: But we were also producing ourselves. There was no one

1221
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 5: else except us in the engineer and so we did it.

1222
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 5: We made the kind of record we wanted to make,

1223
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 5: and I think it was just a very inspiring time.

1224
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 5: Great musicians, great songs, and it was just it was

1225
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 5: it was happening. We were we were glad to be

1226
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 5: out of LA and I think that we had a

1227
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:55,800
Speaker 5: New York had a big energy in nineteen eighty, you know,

1228
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 5: and we kind of tapped into it.

1229
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 2: Speaking speaking of your bands, you know, by that point

1230
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 2: at least, that to me was like the last era

1231
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 2: of musicianship where not only did you care about the artists,

1232
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 2: but you also cared for their band too. And you

1233
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 2: guys had a really charismatic band. Longtime fans will instantly

1234
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 2: recognize that. You know, the great g Smith was your

1235
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:30,040
Speaker 2: guitar player long before he was a Yeah, the SNL

1236
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 2: musical director of like the eighties and whatnot.

1237
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 3: Also Tom t boam Walk.

1238
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 5: One of the greatest of all time.

1239
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 3: Dude, do you know how crust I was so Steve?

1240
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 3: Do you remember they were coming.

1241
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 2: On the ninth show to perform and they had to

1242
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 2: cancel because we booked you in twenty ten and Tom

1243
01:05:58,480 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 2: had passed.

1244
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 3: The morning the morning of Yes, but could you talk

1245
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 3: about that band, but just your whole.

1246
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 2: Just your whole crew by that point, like is eighty

1247
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 2: when you sort of solidified that band.

1248
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's when it started. That's when that band jailed

1249
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 5: right after the Voices album and that band uh Here

1250
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 5: again was finally the you know, we still were in

1251
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 5: that search for that ultimate band that could play live

1252
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 5: and be in the studio and that that's when we

1253
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 5: found h. Ge joined us first, and he brought in

1254
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 5: Mickey Curry on drums. Right. Mickey was a friend of

1255
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 5: his who had played in bar bands with him, and

1256
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 5: Mickey had never played in a professional band other than

1257
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 5: you know before us. When we had Ge and Mickey.

1258
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 5: It's kind of a funny story. We were looking for

1259
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 5: a bass player and we we did some auditions at

1260
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 5: s I R. I don't know if you got time

1261
01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 5: for this.

1262
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 3: But totally.

1263
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 5: We were looking. We had Ge and Mickey and we

1264
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 5: really needed it. We knew we needed a really great

1265
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 5: bass player and we had done some auditions and most

1266
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 5: of the guys were not up to up to it.

1267
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 5: And we had come down to two guys and there

1268
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 5: was this one kid from Long Island. He was tall

1269
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 5: and skinny, he had a great haircut, he was a

1270
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 5: good looking guy. And then there was Tom Woke who

1271
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 5: had not been named t Bone yet. He was just

1272
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 5: Tom Woke, right, and he was kind of a you know,

1273
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 5: he kind of wore flannel shirts and a cap, and

1274
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 5: he lived in Austin and New York. And you know,

1275
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 5: they were both really good players, right. We didn't you know,

1276
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 5: we didn't play with them a lot, but we we

1277
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 5: kind of tested them out. So it came down to

1278
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 5: these two guys. Right, so we finally had the finals.

1279
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 5: We had the we're gonna have the audition between these

1280
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 5: two bass players. So the guy comes in, the kid

1281
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 5: from Long Island, the good looking guy comes in, and

1282
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 5: he was kind of cocky. He felt like he had

1283
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,040
Speaker 5: the gig. And you know, we played a couple of

1284
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 5: songs and he was good. You know, so after and

1285
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 5: T Bone came in, No, no, I'm sorry, hold on.

1286
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 5: T Bone came in first and he played. He was amazing,

1287
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 5: and he left. And then the other kid came in

1288
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 5: and he played, and after he was done, he felt

1289
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:17,759
Speaker 5: like he really was in the band. And I remember

1290
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 5: he turned around to us and he said, actually turned

1291
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:23,920
Speaker 5: around to Darryl and we were sitting around, and he said, hey, Daryl,

1292
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 5: when I'm in the band, I think I should sing

1293
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:31,840
Speaker 5: kiss on my list. And remember Daryl turned abound and said, hey, John,

1294
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:32,840
Speaker 5: go get the balld guy.

1295
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 3: You're serious.

1296
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, Darrel said, let's get the ball guy, and that's

1297
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 5: how we got That's how we got t Bone man.

1298
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 5: It was the best decision we ever made.

1299
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 3: Ever talked to himself out a gig. Wow, he didn't eat.

1300
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 5: Was he serious or just don't know whether he was

1301
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 5: serious or not. But if he wasn't serious, it was

1302
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 5: an asshole. So it doesn't matter word.

1303
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 3: One voice is the original voice.

1304
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 2: The original version of every Time You Go Away was

1305
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 2: on that record? Yeah, Was that ever released as a

1306
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 2: single off that record? Was that just an album cut?

1307
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 5: It was? It was the last track on the B side.

1308
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 5: And you know, back in the days when you're making

1309
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 5: vinyl records, the last track on the B side was

1310
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 5: was either the art record that you couldn't fit anywhere

1311
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 5: else or it was like the throwaway record, and he

1312
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 5: didn't think of it. If you listen to our version,

1313
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 5: it sounds like a Stone Stacks, Volt Stamm and Dave track.

1314
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 5: I mean it is. It's real, authentic and real raw.

1315
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 5: And you know, to give Paul Young credit, those guys

1316
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 5: heard it and they turned it into a great pop song.

1317
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,599
Speaker 5: But but if you listen to our version, our versions,

1318
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 5: I think is great too. But it's not a single.

1319
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 5: It's not a pop single.

1320
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 2: Longtime QLs head should also know that piano Palladino is

1321
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 2: playing based on the Paul Young version of every Time

1322
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:10,680
Speaker 2: You Go Away.

1323
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 3: Why were they two album covers for voices?

1324
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 5: Because because we were trying to control everything, we didn't

1325
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 5: want the record company to tell us what to do,

1326
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 5: so we made our own album covers black and white.

1327
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 5: And we didn't know what to do. So we took

1328
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:27,720
Speaker 5: a picture of Darryl and a picture of me and

1329
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,679
Speaker 5: we tore him in half and we pasted it together

1330
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 5: and we sent it to the record company, said put

1331
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 5: this on the cover, and they they didn't want to

1332
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:36,960
Speaker 5: do it, but they did it because they had to

1333
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:40,679
Speaker 5: they because we made them do it. And what happened

1334
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 5: was the record got released. We were really popular in

1335
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:46,680
Speaker 5: Japan at the time and they we were going to

1336
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:49,559
Speaker 5: do the Japanese tour, and the Japanese record company said,

1337
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 5: we hate this record album cover, and so they made

1338
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 5: their own album cover without telling us. So when we

1339
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 5: got to Japan, there was that album cover with me

1340
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 5: with the pink pants, right yeah, and the Japanese people

1341
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,559
Speaker 5: they had that picture. It was a publicity picture there

1342
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:08,559
Speaker 5: and they just stuck it on the album. They didn't

1343
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:10,640
Speaker 5: even tell us, and we said, hey, what, so we

1344
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 5: get to Japan, we have a new we have a

1345
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 5: new album cover, and so that's so. Then America re

1346
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 5: released the album with that Japanese cover.

1347
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 3: That's crazy because I like the black and white version better.

1348
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 5: That's because you have good taste with.

1349
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 2: The transition of the eighties, were you guys thinking about,

1350
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 2: you know, the versioning new wave movement or the stuff

1351
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,880
Speaker 2: that like Gary Numan was doing with drum machine technology

1352
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:39,879
Speaker 2: and whatnot, Like how how is modern technology coming into

1353
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 2: to play with the band?

1354
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:42,480
Speaker 3: Uh?

1355
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 2: Starting with that, because I think it was notable to

1356
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 2: not just use the drum machine as a click track,

1357
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 2: but to actually make it part of the song.

1358
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 5: Were we were using something called a rolling comfy rhythm.

1359
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 5: It was a little wooden little wooden box, little square box.

1360
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:05,879
Speaker 5: It had four presets rock one rock, two bossa Nova

1361
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 5: and samba, and you had a rotary knob that would

1362
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 5: you could adjust the tempo by a rotary nob. But

1363
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 5: it didn't tell you how what the temple was. It

1364
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 5: was just you just had a feeling. We would use

1365
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:19,840
Speaker 5: that for a feel for just when we were trying

1366
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 5: you know, kind of going over the track and trying

1367
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:26,599
Speaker 5: to get the right tempo, the right field. What happened

1368
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 5: with Kiss on My List. Kiss on My List was

1369
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 5: never intended to be on the record. That was a

1370
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 5: song that Daryl wrote with Jana Allen, who was Sarah's sister,

1371
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:38,760
Speaker 5: who was a young song writer, and she came up

1372
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 5: with the idea. Daryl helped her with it, and she

1373
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 5: wanted to make a record. So it was at the

1374
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 5: end of one of our sessions for voices and we

1375
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 5: were all done for the day and Darrel said, let me,

1376
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 5: let me just make this demo for jam because you know,

1377
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 5: I promised her i'd, you know, lay it down for her.

1378
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 5: So he went in on the piano with the with

1379
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:05,720
Speaker 5: the rhythm hit rock one, you know, and you know,

1380
01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 5: and he just played the song. So we didn't want

1381
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,600
Speaker 5: to waste tape, so we recorded it at fifteen ips

1382
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 5: instead of thirty ips because it was a throwaway. It

1383
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 5: was a demo, So after it was done, it was

1384
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 5: just the piano and the copy rhythm and we played it.

1385
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:24,040
Speaker 5: I guess Darrek played it, might have played it for

1386
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 5: Tommy Mattola or someone, and everybody flipped out. And said,

1387
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 5: that's amazing. You guys got to cut this. So we

1388
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 5: didn't really want to recut it because it sounded really

1389
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:36,080
Speaker 5: good the way it was. It was on fifteen ips,

1390
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 5: So the song has this kind of warbly thickness to it.

1391
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:40,559
Speaker 3: Yes, it does.

1392
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 5: And all we did was add add a couple of

1393
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:47,799
Speaker 5: instruments to it, bass, guitar, you know, some little pads,

1394
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 5: and that's the way we put it out. So it

1395
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 5: really it was supposed to be a demo and that's

1396
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 5: why we kept a copy rhythm on it, just like that.

1397
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:01,679
Speaker 3: I always wanted to know go on my forty five.

1398
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 2: On my forty five of Kiss on My List, I

1399
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:10,759
Speaker 2: believe the B side was Africa. Is that you guys

1400
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 2: doing a sort of a your Bo Diddley homage there?

1401
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 3: Or Yeah?

1402
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 5: That was my That was my song that I wrote

1403
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:21,519
Speaker 5: for my girlfriend at the time, who was a model

1404
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 5: working around the world, and she was she was in Africa,

1405
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 5: and I just.

1406
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:27,839
Speaker 3: Thought it was kind of funny Africa.

1407
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I don't know, it was kind of feel Yeah,

1408
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:35,559
Speaker 2: Africa was just one of those songs where I constantly

1409
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 2: had it on rotation on my forty five. You know,

1410
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,800
Speaker 2: if you put the arm over to the right. Then

1411
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 2: you're gonna have the song repeat over and over and

1412
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:47,519
Speaker 2: over again. And I just always remembered, like the summer

1413
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:50,880
Speaker 2: of nineteen eighty, like that was always the I just

1414
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:53,519
Speaker 2: always kept it on the B side for the Private

1415
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:55,560
Speaker 2: Eyes record. All right, I got to cut to the

1416
01:14:55,640 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 2: chase man, you know. And due to the lasting power

1417
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:05,679
Speaker 2: of it to this day, you know, DJ gigs are

1418
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 2: not complete for half of America's DJ days.

1419
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 3: If I can't go for that is not.

1420
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:17,040
Speaker 2: Played, Could you please give us the story of how

1421
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:21,519
Speaker 2: that song came to be because it's such it's such

1422
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:23,519
Speaker 2: a reverence the way that it's just stripped down and

1423
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 2: sounds sounds so revolutionary.

1424
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 5: That the session was over, everyone had gone. Me, Darryl

1425
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:33,800
Speaker 5: and the engineer were in the studio and we were

1426
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 5: an electric lady. And Darryl walked out into the studio

1427
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:42,679
Speaker 5: with the electric piano and here again the rolling Company rhythm,

1428
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:45,679
Speaker 5: which always sat on his pianel, so we could basically

1429
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 5: work through tracks. And he had an idea. I guess

1430
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:51,840
Speaker 5: he had that idea in his head, but he never

1431
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 5: said anything to me or anybody. It was just maybe

1432
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,840
Speaker 5: something that was just going around his head. And he

1433
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:02,920
Speaker 5: hit rock one and whatever tempo was on it, I

1434
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 5: don't know whatever that was said at and he just

1435
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 5: started playing his left hand. He just started playing bong

1436
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:14,080
Speaker 5: and unmo dong goo goom go, and then he started

1437
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:16,800
Speaker 5: playing and then he said, man, hey, John, get your guitar.

1438
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:20,240
Speaker 5: And I got the guitar and he actually suggested to

1439
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:22,600
Speaker 5: me to play this line. He goes play play. I

1440
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 5: muted like a like a funk line, and I stuck

1441
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:29,679
Speaker 5: turning unt dunt, dunlearn it throw, and all of a sudden,

1442
01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:32,759
Speaker 5: it just like went like this. You know, it was like, okay,

1443
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 5: there's this does need anything? This is like it right here.

1444
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 5: It's the left hand of the keyboard, the guitar thing,

1445
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:43,680
Speaker 5: and that was it on that song. The only thing

1446
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:47,320
Speaker 5: that's on that song is is the keyboard, the guitar,

1447
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 5: sax solo and one synthesizer thing right and and then

1448
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:58,600
Speaker 5: background vocals. That's the whole song was.

1449
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:03,160
Speaker 2: Whose idea was to make it sound as stripped down

1450
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:07,520
Speaker 2: because to me, that drum machine is such a radical

1451
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 2: sound to it.

1452
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:10,400
Speaker 3: I mean, there's two versions of it.

1453
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 2: The twelve inch has more brighter drum mixed to it,

1454
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 2: but the album cut version.

1455
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:19,720
Speaker 3: I can't describe to me.

1456
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 2: It was almost like an improved version of the drums

1457
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 2: that slide was.

1458
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:36,720
Speaker 5: That album you know, there's lit going on. That had

1459
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 5: that same quality to it that you said. It was

1460
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 5: stripped down and raw and it was dry. There was

1461
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:47,120
Speaker 5: just this thing. I mean sometimes when when you know

1462
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 5: you don't have to have a lot if it's the

1463
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 5: right combination of you know, of tonalities. When you get

1464
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 5: the right tonalities and they're not fighting each other, they

1465
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 5: all have their place, you know, they got they're all

1466
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 5: in the right place. That's all you need. You don't

1467
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 5: need anything else. And I think we were We were

1468
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 5: smart enough to realize that it was the groove was

1469
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 5: was was major and it was just that was it.

1470
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 5: That's all you needed.

1471
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 2: No One told you, guys like this group might be

1472
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:19,280
Speaker 2: undercooked a little bit, like it needs something else or nobody.

1473
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:21,799
Speaker 5: Nobody told us anything because we never let.

1474
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:24,599
Speaker 3: Anyone in the studio. I love it.

1475
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:30,120
Speaker 5: Just the engineer engineering the band. Yeah, no record comfort people.

1476
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 8: It's the great engineers from Electric Lady. I don't know

1477
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:35,320
Speaker 8: what's what's going on, must be something in the water

1478
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 8: over there. I have a question for you. John was

1479
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 8: private eyed the first album that you did go to

1480
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 8: Electric Lady forks. I know you went there for a

1481
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 8: few Yeah.

1482
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 5: I think we did voices at the Hit Factory. I'm

1483
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 5: pretty sure voices was done at the Hit Factory. Uh.

1484
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 5: And then we started Private Eye at the Hit Factory.

1485
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:55,880
Speaker 5: And Darryl and I both lived in the village. We

1486
01:18:55,960 --> 01:19:00,080
Speaker 5: both lived very very close to Eighth Street, and we

1487
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:02,639
Speaker 5: just wanted to walk to the studio. That's that's why

1488
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:05,240
Speaker 5: we picked Electric Ladio. We wanted to be able to walk.

1489
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:06,759
Speaker 5: I wanted to be able to walk to the studio

1490
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 5: and walk to Balducci's and that was that.

1491
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:13,680
Speaker 2: Was that was the criteria for for for me, at

1492
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:16,479
Speaker 2: least my era of Electric Lady.

1493
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:20,520
Speaker 3: There's this you know, revered thing for.

1494
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:23,599
Speaker 2: For Hendrix, like wow, was the House of Indrix. But

1495
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 2: back then was it like that or was it just like, Hey,

1496
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:30,400
Speaker 2: there's a studio on Eighth Street, let's just go there

1497
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 2: and make a record. Yeah, yeah, I mean sure didn't

1498
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 2: have a vibe to it.

1499
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:37,120
Speaker 5: It was, Yeah, it had a vibe. There was no doubt.

1500
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:39,080
Speaker 5: It was at a vibe. And Eddie Kramer used to

1501
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 5: used to pop in and out, uh, you know, and

1502
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:43,880
Speaker 5: and you know, you walk in there and there was

1503
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:47,679
Speaker 5: that big mural that went down the hallway, psychedelic mural.

1504
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:50,920
Speaker 5: But but the reality was it was on a street

1505
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 5: and we could walk to it.

1506
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 2: So okay, it almost took ten years for you to

1507
01:19:56,120 --> 01:20:00,919
Speaker 2: reach the promise of what you were I guess initially

1508
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:04,800
Speaker 2: planning on doing back in the early Atlantic days. But

1509
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:08,080
Speaker 2: as a duo, Like, how are you two getting along

1510
01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 2: with this newfound success?

1511
01:20:10,120 --> 01:20:13,920
Speaker 5: We've always gotten along really well. We we we really

1512
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 5: leave each other alone. You know. Back in the early days,

1513
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 5: you know, we were together constantly and traveling constantly always,

1514
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:23,960
Speaker 5: you know, everything was shared. But as we got older

1515
01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:25,880
Speaker 5: and as we got more successful, you know, we lived

1516
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:29,680
Speaker 5: separate lives with separate families, you know. And but but

1517
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:33,599
Speaker 5: we you know, we met as teenagers. So it's almost

1518
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:35,760
Speaker 5: like a brotherhood. You know, it's almost like it's a

1519
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 5: family thing. You know, we don't have to even talk.

1520
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,439
Speaker 5: We can be a part for long periods of time,

1521
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:44,160
Speaker 5: and we get together and it's like time stops. It's

1522
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 5: it's a very unusual thing.

1523
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:46,760
Speaker 3: Uh.

1524
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,520
Speaker 5: And it's amazing, to be honest with you, that we

1525
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 5: were still able to work together. You know, we we

1526
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 5: do our own thing. We do separate projects. Uh, you know,

1527
01:20:56,880 --> 01:21:00,280
Speaker 5: I'm gonna I'm doing a tour next week, actually an

1528
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:03,559
Speaker 5: acoustic tour with a guitar player friend of mine here

1529
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:06,880
Speaker 5: in Nashville, And Darryl's going to do a tour. He's

1530
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:10,679
Speaker 5: doing some a new solo album tour, and then we'll

1531
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:13,000
Speaker 5: come back and play together, you know, probably over the summer.

1532
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:16,439
Speaker 2: So you know, I know that, I for one, am

1533
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 2: very tired of anytime someone sees me alone in public,

1534
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:25,640
Speaker 2: nine times out of ten they're going to ask me

1535
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:28,680
Speaker 2: where's the rest of the guys at.

1536
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:32,559
Speaker 3: Where's the band? I'm almost certain you get asked more

1537
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 3: every day.

1538
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:35,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, where's all?

1539
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 10: You know they think that they think that we just

1540
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:40,680
Speaker 10: you know, we're just well, you know, our company is

1541
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:43,880
Speaker 10: called Two Headed Monster, So that gives you an idea

1542
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:46,160
Speaker 10: of what, you know, what it's all about.

1543
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:49,040
Speaker 5: I remember one time I was sitting in a dressing room,

1544
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 5: and it wasn't long ago, sitting in a dressing room

1545
01:21:51,479 --> 01:21:53,720
Speaker 5: and I was by myself in the dressing room, and

1546
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 5: one of these security guys at the venue stuck his

1547
01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:58,800
Speaker 5: head in dressing and goes and he looked at me.

1548
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:01,840
Speaker 5: There was nobody else in the room, he said, which

1549
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 5: one of you guys is holding oats? I said, I said,

1550
01:22:08,439 --> 01:22:10,400
Speaker 5: I guess, I guess that's me.

1551
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:13,960
Speaker 3: I don't know, all right. So for H two, oh,

1552
01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 3: first of all, while on this streak, what is the

1553
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:22,599
Speaker 3: what is the pressure like for you?

1554
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:27,880
Speaker 2: Like going into prived, I said, it's like, damn, we

1555
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 2: got to top you know, voices And with HGO it's like,

1556
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:35,720
Speaker 2: oh man, we had like four top ten singles with

1557
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 2: the Privateized record. Like, are you feeling the pressure at

1558
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:44,400
Speaker 2: the time or is it still like we still have

1559
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:47,559
Speaker 2: to prove ourselves or do you now feel like by

1560
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:49,880
Speaker 2: this point at least like you've arrived.

1561
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:53,080
Speaker 5: I think, well, we definitely felt like we arrived. We

1562
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 5: felt like we were doing the right thing. You know,

1563
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:58,680
Speaker 5: we had to achieve what we wanted to achieve, were

1564
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:01,760
Speaker 5: producing ourselves, had the band that we wanted that we

1565
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 5: could take live and be in the studio, and we

1566
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:08,160
Speaker 5: thought that that's we were there and things were rolling.

1567
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:11,759
Speaker 5: You know, the band was amazing, the vibe was amazing,

1568
01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:16,040
Speaker 5: We're writing really great songs. And I don't think that

1569
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:18,920
Speaker 5: there was no exterior pressure. We didn't have pressure from

1570
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 5: the record company. I mean it might have been there.

1571
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:24,880
Speaker 5: We never let it get to us. We just just

1572
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:27,240
Speaker 5: wanted to make a great record and we just went

1573
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:27,920
Speaker 5: in there and did it.

1574
01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:32,639
Speaker 2: I've heard rumors of it, but can you tell me

1575
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:36,400
Speaker 2: whether or not. I don't know if it happened that

1576
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 2: we are the World Sessions or whatever. Was it truth

1577
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:43,320
Speaker 2: to the rumor that Michael Jackson actually told you guys

1578
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:48,960
Speaker 2: that Billy Jean was inspired by the DNA of I

1579
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 2: can't go for that.

1580
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:52,760
Speaker 5: That. He didn't say that to me. He may have

1581
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:56,360
Speaker 5: said that to Darryl. He did say. He came backstage

1582
01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:58,640
Speaker 5: with his brothers when we were playing in California in

1583
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 5: LA and he said, he said, I can't go for that.

1584
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:04,439
Speaker 5: It's my favorite song to dance too. He goes, I dance,

1585
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:06,560
Speaker 5: he goes, I work out all my dance routines to

1586
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:11,040
Speaker 5: that grouve. So just that and that alone kind of

1587
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:13,519
Speaker 5: tells you that if he liked it that much, he

1588
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 5: must have said to himself, Man, I'm gonna write something

1589
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:16,720
Speaker 5: sounds like that.

1590
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:21,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, what about so with That's what that said? Man

1591
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:23,000
Speaker 4: Eater and part Time.

1592
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 3: Lover, Oh, what are your thoughts on on that?

1593
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:31,200
Speaker 5: You know, Man, I wrote the chorus of man Eater

1594
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:33,559
Speaker 5: as a reggae song because I had come back from

1595
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:43,439
Speaker 5: Jamaica and wrote I wrote it as I wrote it

1596
01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 5: as a reggae song.

1597
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:48,840
Speaker 11: It was like it was like it was like you know,

1598
01:24:58,720 --> 01:24:59,040
Speaker 11: and so.

1599
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:02,640
Speaker 4: I wrote, it's like like lovers rock kind of thing.

1600
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I and I and I played it for

1601
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:06,280
Speaker 5: Darryl and he was like, man, he goes, I love this,

1602
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 5: he goes, he goes, I don't know, man, he goes,

1603
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:10,880
Speaker 5: I don't know if reggae groove is right for Hallos.

1604
01:25:11,080 --> 01:25:12,680
Speaker 5: And I said, well, what do you got? And he

1605
01:25:13,080 --> 01:25:18,200
Speaker 5: went on, gone, gone, gone, okay. And I mean, at

1606
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:24,600
Speaker 5: least that was smart enough to listen to him.

1607
01:25:24,760 --> 01:25:27,960
Speaker 3: You know the question I always wanted to know. All right,

1608
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:31,160
Speaker 3: this is more of an arrangement question.

1609
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:37,559
Speaker 2: Sometimes there will there will be some songs that get

1610
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:43,080
Speaker 2: released and in your mind and retrospect in your mind,

1611
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:46,360
Speaker 2: you think that the course happens a lot.

1612
01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:47,760
Speaker 3: Great example is.

1613
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:52,800
Speaker 2: Uh uh Fonte, the the rock Master Scott and the

1614
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:57,599
Speaker 2: Dynamic Threes. The roof is on fire like of course

1615
01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:01,559
Speaker 2: that powerful, but it only gets said once in the song.

1616
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 3: And that's like.

1617
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:06,559
Speaker 2: That's what I said, Yeah, you gotta gotta you gotta

1618
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:07,600
Speaker 2: wait five minutes.

1619
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:08,719
Speaker 3: Before it even gets to that part.

1620
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:14,719
Speaker 2: And for me, a song like one on one, I

1621
01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:17,800
Speaker 2: always swore to God that the whole back and forth

1622
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,639
Speaker 2: between you and Darryl a fan.

1623
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 3: I get to night one on what a fan I

1624
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 3: get you? Nah, Like that only happens once.

1625
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 2: Yet in my mind, that's that's a course that just

1626
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 2: goes on and on, which is so tricky.

1627
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:39,720
Speaker 3: Whoh and that's a very intricate Uh.

1628
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:43,760
Speaker 2: That song has a lot of intricate background parts, like

1629
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:47,560
Speaker 2: whose idea was it too? I'm surprised that it was

1630
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:50,160
Speaker 2: a hit because you guys didn't take the easy route

1631
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:52,960
Speaker 2: and just saying the easy part of the course, but

1632
01:26:53,439 --> 01:26:55,439
Speaker 2: there were other sub courses in there.

1633
01:26:55,479 --> 01:26:59,360
Speaker 5: We really pride ourselves on those background arrangements. And that's

1634
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:02,200
Speaker 5: a Philly thing. I mean, that's really that's coming from

1635
01:27:02,240 --> 01:27:05,920
Speaker 5: that doop background vocal thing. And if you listen to

1636
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 5: some of our songs, and I think a lot of

1637
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:10,360
Speaker 5: people don't realize this, but a lot of our songs,

1638
01:27:10,960 --> 01:27:16,080
Speaker 5: the hook is actually the background part. Yes, it's it's

1639
01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:19,080
Speaker 5: very unusual. People don't realize that, but the hook, like

1640
01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:21,759
Speaker 5: We're out of touch, that's just a giant background vocal

1641
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:25,760
Speaker 5: and the lead is bouncing off the backgrounds. We do

1642
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:28,680
Speaker 5: that a lot, and that's a thing, you know.

1643
01:27:29,200 --> 01:27:31,839
Speaker 2: You want to know how I know that that's true.

1644
01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 2: Maybe five years ago I got the Master two. I

1645
01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:43,600
Speaker 2: can't go for that, And just as an experiment, I

1646
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:46,639
Speaker 2: took the vocals and put them over where the background

1647
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 2: should be, and I took the backgrounds and put them

1648
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:49,400
Speaker 2: where the vocals were.

1649
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:54,759
Speaker 3: Yeah me to this, no, yeah, yeah to this day.

1650
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:57,160
Speaker 2: I mean I've been playing it and my DJ sets

1651
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:02,280
Speaker 2: to see if one person notices that Darryl singing over

1652
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 2: the chorus music and the chorus is over it. Not

1653
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 2: one person has noticed it yet. And that's all the

1654
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 2: only version I played.

1655
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:11,519
Speaker 5: That's cool. I didn't realize that's that I'd like. I

1656
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:12,280
Speaker 5: would like to hear that.

1657
01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:17,840
Speaker 2: How did you guys get Family Man from Mike Oldfield?

1658
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:22,679
Speaker 5: That was a that was just an accident. We were

1659
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:27,439
Speaker 5: making the record and one of our roadies are keyboard

1660
01:28:27,479 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 5: tech who was helping us with keyboards. He came in

1661
01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:34,560
Speaker 5: one day and he said, hey man. He was a

1662
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 5: big Mikeae Oldfield fan, and he said, I heard this

1663
01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:39,559
Speaker 5: new Michae Oldfield record. He goes, and there's a vocal

1664
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:44,439
Speaker 5: on it. Because Michae Oldfield was predominantly instrumental, and he said,

1665
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:47,080
Speaker 5: there's this cool song with this girl singing this vocal

1666
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:50,320
Speaker 5: this vocal tune, and he said, you guys got to

1667
01:28:50,360 --> 01:28:52,160
Speaker 5: hear it. And we just played it for fun in

1668
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:54,240
Speaker 5: the studio and we went, wow, we should cut that,

1669
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 5: and we did. We just cut it.

1670
01:28:56,920 --> 01:29:00,559
Speaker 2: I also remember you did two versions of that video.

1671
01:29:00,840 --> 01:29:06,000
Speaker 2: One version was like extremely long, like it was almost

1672
01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:10,360
Speaker 2: like again the early days of MTV where they just

1673
01:29:10,400 --> 01:29:14,840
Speaker 2: need a lot of content. I definitely remember, Yes, it

1674
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:16,760
Speaker 2: cut like ten versions of Leave It.

1675
01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:20,120
Speaker 3: But there was two versions of.

1676
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:24,720
Speaker 8: I'm just I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing, yes.

1677
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, Well, Gotti and Cream.

1678
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:32,120
Speaker 8: Re mixes of Owner of a Lonely Heart too, Like

1679
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:33,240
Speaker 8: there's one hundred mixes.

1680
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:38,240
Speaker 2: Trevor wasn't messing around, Trevor Warren. Yeah, but I remember

1681
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:45,479
Speaker 2: you guys did two versions of an extended version of

1682
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:49,519
Speaker 2: Family Man, which is like eight nine minutes long.

1683
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:53,760
Speaker 5: And yeah, yeah, we were always doing club mixes, you

1684
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:55,160
Speaker 5: know on some of those records.

1685
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:57,280
Speaker 3: Did you have anything to do with that? You and

1686
01:29:57,400 --> 01:29:58,679
Speaker 3: Darryl or did somebody else?

1687
01:29:58,760 --> 01:30:02,559
Speaker 5: Just well, the first club mix that we had success

1688
01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:07,880
Speaker 5: with was for Satis and so with jelly Bean Benitas, right,

1689
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:11,439
Speaker 5: Billy did that one, and then we then the really

1690
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:13,920
Speaker 5: extreme stuff that we did later on on the on

1691
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:17,160
Speaker 5: the Big Bamboom Mountain by Arthur Baker.

1692
01:30:17,120 --> 01:30:20,040
Speaker 2: And an important summit meeting of a record you were

1693
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:23,400
Speaker 2: part of USA for Africas we are the world?

1694
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:26,559
Speaker 3: What was what was that experience?

1695
01:30:26,680 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 5: Like Quincy Jones and Lena Richie and Michael Jackson, they

1696
01:30:31,479 --> 01:30:34,439
Speaker 5: were smart because they knew that it was the American

1697
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:36,599
Speaker 5: Music Awards were going on in LA. And then back

1698
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:38,679
Speaker 5: in those days, you know, you only had two things.

1699
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:41,000
Speaker 5: You had the American Music Awards and the Grammys. They

1700
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 5: were really it was not a million different award shows

1701
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:47,800
Speaker 5: like there is today. And so they knew that everybody

1702
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:50,040
Speaker 5: kind of who was anybody in pop music was going

1703
01:30:50,120 --> 01:30:53,560
Speaker 5: to be in LA for American Music Awards because you

1704
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:57,519
Speaker 5: pretty much everybody went. So they just said they they

1705
01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 5: sent invitations to everybody to select people to come to

1706
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:05,160
Speaker 5: the studio at A and M after the awards, and

1707
01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:09,120
Speaker 5: the invitation said no managers, no agents, no hangers on,

1708
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:12,519
Speaker 5: just come, just come. And there was a green room

1709
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:15,000
Speaker 5: out in the lobby for all the people. You know,

1710
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:18,880
Speaker 5: the all the other folks and just the artists were

1711
01:31:18,880 --> 01:31:21,280
Speaker 5: allowed in and that was the that was brilliant because

1712
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:23,760
Speaker 5: all the artists left their hair down. You know, there

1713
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:26,960
Speaker 5: was no hangers on and agents and managers trying to

1714
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:32,040
Speaker 5: you know, control anybody, and everybody just got real. Everybody

1715
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 5: got real. And I you know, I remember they had

1716
01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:39,920
Speaker 5: little names on on the these little steps where we

1717
01:31:39,960 --> 01:31:43,639
Speaker 5: all stood for the chorus, and I had I had

1718
01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:46,040
Speaker 5: Ray Charles was right in front of me off my

1719
01:31:46,160 --> 01:31:49,120
Speaker 5: left shoulder, and Bob Dylan was right behind me on

1720
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:52,519
Speaker 5: my right shoulder, and I was just looking. I was

1721
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:55,400
Speaker 5: you know, you know, through the years, I think I've

1722
01:31:55,400 --> 01:31:58,920
Speaker 5: tried to be more very aware of certain moments when

1723
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:03,040
Speaker 5: when I realized that maybe this is something that you know,

1724
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:08,200
Speaker 5: couldn't might never happen again. And I remember very distinctly

1725
01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:10,920
Speaker 5: being very aware of what was happening, where I was

1726
01:32:11,439 --> 01:32:13,519
Speaker 5: and what was going on, and I thought to myself,

1727
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:16,800
Speaker 5: this is a very unique thing. And I don't know

1728
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:19,000
Speaker 5: if you can see it or not, but I'll show

1729
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:19,320
Speaker 5: it to you.

1730
01:32:23,479 --> 01:32:25,160
Speaker 3: Oh, everyone signed.

1731
01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:27,840
Speaker 5: Everybody sign it. I think this is the only copy

1732
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:33,240
Speaker 5: that exists. I mean, and I mean everybody.

1733
01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 2: So we're looking at the sheet music and everyone's signature

1734
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:38,360
Speaker 2: from We.

1735
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:38,920
Speaker 3: Are the World.

1736
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:42,559
Speaker 5: That's amazing and for once, for once, I had the

1737
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:44,400
Speaker 5: presence of mind to go around and get.

1738
01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:46,920
Speaker 3: Everybody, oh yeah else.

1739
01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:49,920
Speaker 5: Even got Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder to sign this thing.

1740
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:55,559
Speaker 3: So that's myself. How long was the process for you?

1741
01:32:57,439 --> 01:32:59,560
Speaker 5: It was a couple of hours. But you know what

1742
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 5: we did was we just sang the chorus. We said,

1743
01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:05,120
Speaker 5: we all sang the chorus in unison, and we said, okay,

1744
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:07,800
Speaker 5: everybody just throw a harmony part on and you know,

1745
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:09,759
Speaker 5: of course he had a good room for the great singers,

1746
01:33:09,760 --> 01:33:12,680
Speaker 5: so everybody just picked apart, sang a third third of

1747
01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:15,680
Speaker 5: you know, octaves or whatever it was, and uh, and

1748
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:17,839
Speaker 5: then everybody broke down and then they did all the

1749
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:19,679
Speaker 5: the solo solo stuff.

1750
01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:23,720
Speaker 3: So the backgrounds were done. First one went home first year.

1751
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:26,879
Speaker 5: And it didn't it didn't take long, It really didn't.

1752
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:29,439
Speaker 5: There was a couple of little snap There was a

1753
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:32,080
Speaker 5: couple of little issues where you know, you know, you

1754
01:33:32,160 --> 01:33:35,439
Speaker 5: put a bunch of a list talent in the same

1755
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:40,320
Speaker 5: room and somebody's gonna think they're gonna start producing, and uh.

1756
01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:42,920
Speaker 5: There was a couple of little things where I won't

1757
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:44,559
Speaker 5: mention any names, but Stevie.

1758
01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we we had we had Hughey Lewis on this show.

1759
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:53,559
Speaker 5: Did he tell you the same story?

1760
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:54,760
Speaker 10: Uh?

1761
01:33:54,880 --> 01:34:00,880
Speaker 3: No, no, No, I don't know. I know, yeah, what's your story?

1762
01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:02,559
Speaker 3: You know?

1763
01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:05,680
Speaker 5: Stevie made some suggestions he he thought would be a

1764
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:08,439
Speaker 5: good idea, and it kind of kind of derailed the

1765
01:34:08,479 --> 01:34:10,840
Speaker 5: whole thing because they were trying to get a lot done,

1766
01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:13,920
Speaker 5: you know. And uh and finally, you know, Quincy Jones

1767
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:16,880
Speaker 5: just came out from behind the console, you know, behind

1768
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:20,080
Speaker 5: the glass, and he just once Quincy came out, it

1769
01:34:20,200 --> 01:34:22,080
Speaker 5: was like and I remember, I think I think Ray

1770
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:25,040
Speaker 5: Charles said something like, hey man, I think he said,

1771
01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:27,600
Speaker 5: as I recall, he said, it is his line on

1772
01:34:27,720 --> 01:34:29,920
Speaker 5: Michael's song. Let's just do it the way they want.

1773
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:32,280
Speaker 5: And that was and that was it. Once once he

1774
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:33,760
Speaker 5: said that, everything kind of.

1775
01:34:33,720 --> 01:34:38,680
Speaker 7: Got imagine Stevie versus Ray.

1776
01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:39,240
Speaker 3: I just love it.

1777
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:41,240
Speaker 7: I know they were friends, and I know it's all

1778
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:42,799
Speaker 7: in fun sounds hilarious.

1779
01:34:42,840 --> 01:34:45,679
Speaker 3: Wait you guys. Were you guys also on the sun

1780
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:47,639
Speaker 3: City record as well? Yeah?

1781
01:34:47,640 --> 01:34:48,000
Speaker 5: I was.

1782
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:51,519
Speaker 3: I don't know, was that recording them the same way

1783
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:51,920
Speaker 3: or was.

1784
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:54,880
Speaker 5: It just like no, that was all the individual stuff. Yeah,

1785
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:57,400
Speaker 5: it was a group thing, but it was small groups.

1786
01:34:57,439 --> 01:35:01,040
Speaker 5: I think Stephen brought different people to and it was

1787
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:03,439
Speaker 5: all done in New York in a small studio in

1788
01:35:03,479 --> 01:35:03,920
Speaker 5: the city.

1789
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:08,320
Speaker 2: You know, you guys are basically the gold standard, like

1790
01:35:08,400 --> 01:35:13,720
Speaker 2: for you was it Were there any regrets of that period,

1791
01:35:14,280 --> 01:35:18,479
Speaker 2: in that rise of being at the top of your game,

1792
01:35:18,600 --> 01:35:22,760
Speaker 2: of having like number one singles, number one albums, Has

1793
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:28,479
Speaker 2: there been something that you haven't achieved or was that

1794
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:29,920
Speaker 2: you could have redone or something.

1795
01:35:30,360 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 3: I think think that.

1796
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:34,439
Speaker 5: People perhaps to realize that when you have this mega

1797
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:39,360
Speaker 5: success like that in the pop world, the biggest thing

1798
01:35:39,400 --> 01:35:42,559
Speaker 5: that you lose is time. You lose time, and you

1799
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:47,120
Speaker 5: lose you lose yourself because there's so much demands on

1800
01:35:47,160 --> 01:35:52,240
Speaker 5: your time for obviously to make the music, to promote

1801
01:35:52,280 --> 01:35:55,720
Speaker 5: the music, to tour, to play live, to write new songs.

1802
01:35:55,960 --> 01:35:59,040
Speaker 5: It just never seemed to end, really and I think

1803
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:01,439
Speaker 5: when we got it right after, you know, we did

1804
01:36:01,439 --> 01:36:04,320
Speaker 5: we did three things that were really big. We did

1805
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:08,880
Speaker 5: We Are the World. We did Live Time Live AID

1806
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:13,000
Speaker 5: in Philadelphia at Veteran Stadium, and we headlined that with

1807
01:36:13,360 --> 01:36:16,840
Speaker 5: you know, with Jagger and Tina Turner and uh, and

1808
01:36:17,640 --> 01:36:20,439
Speaker 5: Eddie Kendrick and David Ruffin, and then we did we

1809
01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:24,080
Speaker 5: and we had done the Apollo Theater show, right, and

1810
01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:27,240
Speaker 5: we also had Eddie Kendrick and David Ruffin. Once we

1811
01:36:27,320 --> 01:36:30,320
Speaker 5: had done those three things, I think Darryl and I

1812
01:36:30,360 --> 01:36:32,639
Speaker 5: actually looked at each other and said, what more could

1813
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:37,120
Speaker 5: we boss? Had? We had more success than we could

1814
01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:39,960
Speaker 5: have ever dreamed of. We had, as you said, number

1815
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:42,360
Speaker 5: one records tour of the world, you know, on the

1816
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,439
Speaker 5: top of the pop charts. And I think we I

1817
01:36:45,479 --> 01:36:47,800
Speaker 5: think we were smart. I think we realized that there

1818
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:49,360
Speaker 5: was only one way to go from there, and.

1819
01:36:49,320 --> 01:36:49,880
Speaker 1: That was down.

1820
01:36:51,560 --> 01:36:55,000
Speaker 5: Because I don't think you can sustain that sort of success.

1821
01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:59,280
Speaker 5: I think it's very difficult. Very few people can sustain

1822
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:02,080
Speaker 5: that sort of success for a lengthy period of time.

1823
01:37:02,760 --> 01:37:04,759
Speaker 5: And I think what we did was we stepped away.

1824
01:37:04,920 --> 01:37:07,240
Speaker 5: And maybe it wasn't the smartest thing to do from

1825
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:09,800
Speaker 5: a business point of view. Commercially, of course it wasn't,

1826
01:37:10,439 --> 01:37:14,800
Speaker 5: But it was a smart thing to do for psychic life,

1827
01:37:15,080 --> 01:37:15,880
Speaker 5: you know, for life.

1828
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:25,240
Speaker 2: How you know how difficult or challenging was it to

1829
01:37:25,280 --> 01:37:29,120
Speaker 2: pull off the Kendrick and Ruffin.

1830
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:34,320
Speaker 3: Project, because you know.

1831
01:37:34,680 --> 01:37:38,919
Speaker 2: I've read a lot of autobiographies of various Temptation members,

1832
01:37:38,960 --> 01:37:45,439
Speaker 2: and you know, they don't look too fondly of that

1833
01:37:45,439 --> 01:37:48,040
Speaker 2: that reunion album that came out in nineteen eighty one,

1834
01:37:48,240 --> 01:37:52,400
Speaker 2: So I don't know, I would assume that, you know,

1835
01:37:52,439 --> 01:37:54,840
Speaker 2: when they're doing this album with you in nineteen eighty

1836
01:37:54,880 --> 01:38:02,120
Speaker 2: four eighty five, that the sort of Temptations proposed seven

1837
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:05,559
Speaker 2: member reunion thing went a bust and they both want

1838
01:38:05,560 --> 01:38:07,599
Speaker 2: their separate ways to do the separate projects.

1839
01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:11,920
Speaker 3: But for you, what was it like? You know, I

1840
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:12,400
Speaker 3: know that you.

1841
01:38:12,360 --> 01:38:16,680
Speaker 2: Two were big Temptations fans, but at the time, you know,

1842
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:20,160
Speaker 2: was it rose colored glasses like it was exciting or

1843
01:38:21,479 --> 01:38:23,200
Speaker 2: maybe I don't know.

1844
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:26,640
Speaker 5: We we were asked to reopen the Apollo after the

1845
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:31,559
Speaker 5: Apollo had been closed for a bit for to be renovated, renovated,

1846
01:38:31,680 --> 01:38:33,120
Speaker 5: and it was a big you know, we Darren and

1847
01:38:33,160 --> 01:38:34,559
Speaker 5: I felt like it was a big honor. It was

1848
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:36,240
Speaker 5: a you know, it was a charity event. It was

1849
01:38:36,240 --> 01:38:39,519
Speaker 5: in New York City, obviously, and it was a big

1850
01:38:39,560 --> 01:38:42,559
Speaker 5: honor to be asked, you know, to reopen the Apollo,

1851
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:45,120
Speaker 5: and we want to do something special, and so what

1852
01:38:45,160 --> 01:38:47,599
Speaker 5: we wanted to do was we wanted to go back

1853
01:38:47,720 --> 01:38:50,240
Speaker 5: to the so some of the music that kind of

1854
01:38:50,280 --> 01:38:52,960
Speaker 5: brought me and Darryl together back in the sixties, and

1855
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:56,439
Speaker 5: that was our mutual love for the Temptations and Eddie,

1856
01:38:56,640 --> 01:39:00,240
Speaker 5: you know, Eddie was Eddie's was a sweetheart. Eddie was

1857
01:39:00,280 --> 01:39:06,640
Speaker 5: playing in holiday inns in Alabama. David was David was

1858
01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:13,000
Speaker 5: a He was very challenging, challenging individual, and but we

1859
01:39:13,080 --> 01:39:16,360
Speaker 5: managed to corral them together and we told them flat

1860
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:18,920
Speaker 5: out and they said, look, here's what we want to do.

1861
01:39:19,120 --> 01:39:22,000
Speaker 5: We want to try to replicate the thing that we

1862
01:39:22,080 --> 01:39:25,160
Speaker 5: remember as teenagers when you guys were at your peak.

1863
01:39:25,680 --> 01:39:28,120
Speaker 5: We want to wear the suits, we want to do

1864
01:39:28,160 --> 01:39:31,000
Speaker 5: the steps, we want to do the whole thing. And

1865
01:39:31,120 --> 01:39:33,080
Speaker 5: we're on the stage at the Apollo. We want to

1866
01:39:33,200 --> 01:39:36,439
Speaker 5: we want to try to recapture for that moment. And

1867
01:39:36,479 --> 01:39:38,639
Speaker 5: it was really kind of in a way, I mean

1868
01:39:38,680 --> 01:39:41,120
Speaker 5: not in a way, it was really it was really

1869
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:44,920
Speaker 5: me and Daryl wanting to to have that experience of

1870
01:39:45,680 --> 01:39:50,160
Speaker 5: performing with our teenage idols on the stage and kind

1871
01:39:50,200 --> 01:39:52,720
Speaker 5: of having this and to be honest with you, it

1872
01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:54,800
Speaker 5: was it was one of the most amazing things I've

1873
01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:59,320
Speaker 5: ever done, because it was like time had stopped and

1874
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:01,920
Speaker 5: instead of me being in my bedroom trying to do

1875
01:40:01,960 --> 01:40:04,920
Speaker 5: the Temptation steps and singing those songs, I was on

1876
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:07,439
Speaker 5: the stage at the Apollo doing it with them, and

1877
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:10,160
Speaker 5: they were so cool about it, and they wanted to

1878
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:12,880
Speaker 5: do it so authentically. If you if you watch the steps,

1879
01:40:12,920 --> 01:40:17,320
Speaker 5: they are exactly the same choreography. And it was just

1880
01:40:17,400 --> 01:40:20,600
Speaker 5: one of those things. And honest to God, it was

1881
01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:24,639
Speaker 5: a psychedelic moment. And by that, I don't mean taking drugs.

1882
01:40:24,800 --> 01:40:27,080
Speaker 5: What I mean is is that I felt like I

1883
01:40:27,160 --> 01:40:31,640
Speaker 5: was watching myself. I felt like gone out of my

1884
01:40:31,680 --> 01:40:34,720
Speaker 5: body and I was watching myself do that. And it

1885
01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:37,679
Speaker 5: was really something that I don't think I could ever

1886
01:40:37,960 --> 01:40:40,080
Speaker 5: you know, really well, I can't really describe it any

1887
01:40:40,080 --> 01:40:42,320
Speaker 5: other bit way in that, but it was just something

1888
01:40:42,360 --> 01:40:44,479
Speaker 5: that was just very very And that's when me and

1889
01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:47,320
Speaker 5: Daryl decided to step away after that. It was after

1890
01:40:47,400 --> 01:40:50,080
Speaker 5: that show, in the reception after the show, we were

1891
01:40:50,640 --> 01:40:53,200
Speaker 5: all the people were coming around and everybody was saying,

1892
01:40:53,479 --> 01:40:55,280
Speaker 5: you know, how great it was and all this, and

1893
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:57,920
Speaker 5: I remember me and Daryl sitting down together and we said,

1894
01:40:58,479 --> 01:41:01,360
Speaker 5: you know what, probably time for us to just stop.

1895
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:06,599
Speaker 4: Wowad for us, it was a full circle.

1896
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:10,080
Speaker 5: We had we had met because of the temptations in

1897
01:41:10,120 --> 01:41:13,080
Speaker 5: a sense, and now we were we had done that,

1898
01:41:13,160 --> 01:41:15,880
Speaker 5: and it really felt like we had completed this thing

1899
01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:16,960
Speaker 5: in our in our life.

1900
01:41:17,080 --> 01:41:19,679
Speaker 7: You know, was there something in your mind you wanted

1901
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:22,160
Speaker 7: to do after this circle had completed, because it seems

1902
01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:22,800
Speaker 7: like a whole era.

1903
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:25,840
Speaker 5: So now I wanted, I wanted to live. I wanted

1904
01:41:25,880 --> 01:41:28,320
Speaker 5: to I want to do all the things that I

1905
01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:31,040
Speaker 5: had never done. You have to remember I was on

1906
01:41:31,080 --> 01:41:33,639
Speaker 5: the road from nineteen seventy two until nineteen eighty six,

1907
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:36,880
Speaker 5: and I never ever stopped, not one time. It was

1908
01:41:36,960 --> 01:41:38,320
Speaker 5: two breaks and that whole time.

1909
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:39,519
Speaker 3: Had you made a list?

1910
01:41:41,160 --> 01:41:45,080
Speaker 5: Yeah? My list was was, uh, live in a house.

1911
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:51,360
Speaker 4: Get me, get married, have a kid.

1912
01:41:52,560 --> 01:41:55,160
Speaker 5: And that's exactly what I did. I I sold everything

1913
01:41:55,200 --> 01:41:58,640
Speaker 5: I owned, I move, I moved to Colorado and I

1914
01:41:58,680 --> 01:42:01,479
Speaker 5: met my future wife and we build a house and

1915
01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:04,040
Speaker 5: had a kid. And for about ten years I hardly

1916
01:42:04,040 --> 01:42:07,599
Speaker 5: did any music. And wow, I lived in the mountains

1917
01:42:07,600 --> 01:42:11,600
Speaker 5: and I kind of became a different person. So it

1918
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:14,080
Speaker 5: was just something I needed to do.

1919
01:42:14,640 --> 01:42:14,960
Speaker 3: All right.

1920
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:18,880
Speaker 2: One one last question I have. I know that you're

1921
01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:21,680
Speaker 2: you once lived next door to Hunter S.

1922
01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:22,200
Speaker 3: Thompson.

1923
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh god, what was that shit like psychedelics.

1924
01:42:27,680 --> 01:42:29,840
Speaker 5: Well, that's that's what happened when I when when I

1925
01:42:29,880 --> 01:42:32,040
Speaker 5: when I left New York City and I kind of

1926
01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:35,200
Speaker 5: started my life over again, moved to Colorado. I was

1927
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:38,439
Speaker 5: with my my girlfriend who later became my wife, and

1928
01:42:39,080 --> 01:42:41,639
Speaker 5: we we found a little piece of property. She actually

1929
01:42:41,680 --> 01:42:46,640
Speaker 5: found it in Woody Creek, Colorado, which is and we

1930
01:42:46,640 --> 01:42:49,160
Speaker 5: we it was it was just a piece of land

1931
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:51,880
Speaker 5: with a little cabin and we were going to build

1932
01:42:51,880 --> 01:42:54,439
Speaker 5: a house. And so I remember one day and we

1933
01:42:54,680 --> 01:42:56,479
Speaker 5: went out there to look at it and we were

1934
01:42:56,520 --> 01:42:59,920
Speaker 5: standing with a real estate agent and on the proper

1935
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:04,680
Speaker 5: and we heard a shotgun blast and then on the

1936
01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:06,680
Speaker 5: on the roof of the cabin, this metal roof, we

1937
01:43:06,760 --> 01:43:10,840
Speaker 5: heard all the shotgun pellats, you know, like that, and

1938
01:43:10,880 --> 01:43:14,320
Speaker 5: we're like, what the hell is that? And the real station, Oh,

1939
01:43:14,400 --> 01:43:17,160
Speaker 5: that's your neighbor, Hunter Thompson. He said, don't worry, he's fine.

1940
01:43:17,200 --> 01:43:19,320
Speaker 5: You'll you'll get to meet him later. I was like,

1941
01:43:19,640 --> 01:43:21,599
Speaker 5: I said, is this going to be a problem, And

1942
01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:24,200
Speaker 5: he said he said, no, no, no, it's going to

1943
01:43:24,240 --> 01:43:28,920
Speaker 5: be all right. And so we ignored that. And his

1944
01:43:29,720 --> 01:43:31,720
Speaker 5: if you if you know anything about Hunter, you know

1945
01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:35,479
Speaker 5: he had that red car LANDNK that he drove in

1946
01:43:35,520 --> 01:43:39,120
Speaker 5: the field loathing that was parked that was parked in

1947
01:43:39,160 --> 01:43:43,000
Speaker 5: our cabin. He didn't own the property, but that property

1948
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:45,360
Speaker 5: had been abandoned for years, so he just stuck his

1949
01:43:45,400 --> 01:43:48,000
Speaker 5: car in the little cabin. So we were going to

1950
01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:51,000
Speaker 5: take that cabin and convert it into an apartment where

1951
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:53,920
Speaker 5: we could live while we built our house. So I

1952
01:43:54,040 --> 01:43:56,800
Speaker 5: kept going up and knocking on his door, because he

1953
01:43:56,880 --> 01:43:59,320
Speaker 5: literally was right across the road. I would knock on

1954
01:43:59,320 --> 01:44:02,280
Speaker 5: his door, hopefully, you know, to introduce myself and say,

1955
01:44:02,520 --> 01:44:04,240
Speaker 5: hey man, we got to get your car out of

1956
01:44:04,240 --> 01:44:07,759
Speaker 5: the cabin. And he never answered the door ever, because

1957
01:44:07,760 --> 01:44:10,360
Speaker 5: he would sleep all day and stay up all night,

1958
01:44:10,479 --> 01:44:13,920
Speaker 5: and I would always go during the day as so

1959
01:44:14,200 --> 01:44:16,479
Speaker 5: finally I just the keys were in the car.

1960
01:44:16,920 --> 01:44:17,439
Speaker 3: I put a.

1961
01:44:17,439 --> 01:44:20,280
Speaker 5: Jumper cables on it, I jumped it, I started it.

1962
01:44:20,640 --> 01:44:23,160
Speaker 5: I drove it up onto his lawn. I parked it

1963
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:25,880
Speaker 5: directly in front of his kitchen door, and I left

1964
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:29,040
Speaker 5: it there. And I knew him for twenty five years.

1965
01:44:29,080 --> 01:44:33,719
Speaker 5: He never said a word to me about it.

1966
01:44:33,360 --> 01:44:33,880
Speaker 3: He did it.

1967
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:37,080
Speaker 5: He probably did it in the middle of the night, yes,

1968
01:44:37,760 --> 01:44:42,120
Speaker 5: where it just appeared there. Wow, you We used to

1969
01:44:42,200 --> 01:44:44,400
Speaker 5: go up to his house and we used to watch

1970
01:44:44,479 --> 01:44:46,720
Speaker 5: Monday night football with him and the sheriff.

1971
01:44:46,439 --> 01:44:49,759
Speaker 3: And he did something normal like watch football.

1972
01:44:50,439 --> 01:44:54,000
Speaker 5: Oh that he was a major sports junkie. He was

1973
01:44:54,040 --> 01:44:58,000
Speaker 5: a huge sports fan. That's all his whole thing. And

1974
01:44:58,040 --> 01:45:00,720
Speaker 5: then then we went to the funeral too, Johnny dep

1975
01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:02,880
Speaker 5: did you know where where they shot his ashes out

1976
01:45:02,880 --> 01:45:05,280
Speaker 5: of the cannon and all that we were there for that.

1977
01:45:05,400 --> 01:45:07,519
Speaker 5: It was wow. I didn't know they did it at

1978
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:08,040
Speaker 5: the funeral.

1979
01:45:08,320 --> 01:45:09,800
Speaker 3: Wow, wow, wow.

1980
01:45:10,120 --> 01:45:12,280
Speaker 8: Just who you want for a neighbor when you're trying

1981
01:45:12,280 --> 01:45:13,000
Speaker 8: to get away from it.

1982
01:45:13,040 --> 01:45:17,200
Speaker 5: All right, he was actually you know what though, he

1983
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:20,200
Speaker 5: was actually a really good a good guy. He he

1984
01:45:20,439 --> 01:45:23,240
Speaker 5: liked being Hunter Thompson. You know, he liked he liked

1985
01:45:23,240 --> 01:45:25,160
Speaker 5: the image. You know, he liked the hat and the

1986
01:45:25,200 --> 01:45:28,559
Speaker 5: cigarette holder and the motorcycle with a glass of Burt

1987
01:45:28,560 --> 01:45:31,519
Speaker 5: you know gin. But down you know, he was a

1988
01:45:31,600 --> 01:45:34,720
Speaker 5: Southern gentleman. He was from Kentucky and if he liked you,

1989
01:45:35,040 --> 01:45:37,280
Speaker 5: and it broke all that down. He was he was

1990
01:45:37,320 --> 01:45:40,479
Speaker 5: really cool and he was really smart. And no, it

1991
01:45:40,520 --> 01:45:42,679
Speaker 5: was a real experience to have him as a neighbor

1992
01:45:42,720 --> 01:45:43,799
Speaker 5: for over twenty years.

1993
01:45:43,880 --> 01:45:45,479
Speaker 2: Well, we thank you for coming on the show and

1994
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:48,760
Speaker 2: we have a team Supreme Fan Digolo, Boss, Bill Sugar,

1995
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:51,000
Speaker 2: Steve like you, I'm quest Love.

1996
01:45:51,439 --> 01:45:55,080
Speaker 3: This would be great, John O, thank you very much.

1997
01:46:04,160 --> 01:46:09,840
Speaker 1: West Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more

1998
01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:14,360
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1999
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:16,040
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.