1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. That's our super producer, mister Max Williams, 4 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: Noel Brown, Ben Bollen. This is part two of a 5 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: crazy exploration of Thomas Jefferson, who gets a nickname in 6 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:46,639 Speaker 1: this series, and Mastertons and. 7 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 2: A real history mystery. 8 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, big, big teeth. We couldn't do it without our 9 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: special guest, returning guest friend of the show, dear friend 10 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: of ours, Lauren Vogel bam. 11 00:00:58,560 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 3: Oh, thanks for having me. 12 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: Jeez, guys, can we just jump into the show already 13 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: in progress? 14 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 3: Buffone knows that that Tommy is beefing with him about 15 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 3: this whole thing a little bit, and he invites him 16 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 3: over to dinner in Paris because both of them are 17 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 3: hanging out in Paris at the time, and everyone thinks 18 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 3: that this is going to be you know, I don't know, 19 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 3: like like maybe maybe they're going to make peace, maybe 20 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 3: they're going to fight it out once and for all. 21 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 3: Neither of those things happen, partially because over dinner, someone 22 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 3: mentions the existence of Moose and Buffoone confidently says that 23 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 3: no such thing could possibly exist, that it has to 24 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 3: be a tall tale of like a reindeer or something, 25 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 3: and Jefferson later recalled he wrote down that he said this. 26 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 3: He was like, the reindeer could walk under the belly 27 00:01:58,600 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 3: of our. 28 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: Moose, turning into such a dick swinging context, a real 29 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: peepee contest, it really is. 30 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: He's like, as men say, he's like. 31 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a big deal. And you know what, 32 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: to be honest, folks, for anybody who has not seeing 33 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: a moose in person, no matter how many photos you 34 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: look at, they are bigger than you think. 35 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: They are beefy legs, yeah exactly. I mean they are 36 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: long legs, like almost camel esque length legs, and you could, like, 37 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: you know, totally maybe drive a very small clown car 38 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: underneath them. 39 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: Oh yeah probably. 40 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 3: Not, probably not a reindeer. 41 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, maybe it's like a baby reindeer. 42 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: But sure. 43 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: But they're they're they're gangly, they're huge. They actually even 44 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: now ruin Halloween throughout parts of Alaska because they love 45 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: eating jack lanterns and no one can stop them. That 46 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: is true, you know. 47 00:02:51,520 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: Good for them, Halloween power, big Halloween. So Jefferson is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, 48 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 3: we can prove, we can prove a moose to you. 49 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 3: He gets on the line with with another buddy, the 50 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 3: governor of New Hampshire. He's like, hey, I know you 51 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 3: guys got moose. Send send me a moose. I need 52 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 3: a moose now, stat It was like a dead one. Well, 53 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 3: I mean, you can't send someone a live moose. That's insane. 54 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 2: You could, you know, you could pack it up in 55 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 2: some sort of caravan. Perhaps did he put it in 56 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 2: the guy's bed like Godfather style? Like what are we talking? 57 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 2: It seems a little threaten'd towards. 58 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: It's I think he was really trying to He was 59 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 3: being as polite about sending a dude a dead moose. 60 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: He got ahead of us, I did. 61 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 3: He certainly did not. Yeah, because he sent this. He 62 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 3: sent the pone a moose to his house in Paris. 63 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 3: It was an ex moose. It was. This was not 64 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 3: living moose. It was so much worse for the travel, 65 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 3: like most of the fur had rubbed off. It was 66 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 3: wearing a different set of antlers because the original antlers 67 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 3: had gotten lost along the way. 68 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: Like what like this is Buffalo bill type stuff, man, 69 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 2: this is gnarly smell grat I'm. 70 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 3: Sure it did not, because it was not stuffed before 71 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 3: it got sent overseas. This was a moose corpse. This 72 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 3: was the corpse of a moose, and it had right 73 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 3: like like like you know, like in The Grinch. It 74 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 3: had like a little different antlers stapled to his head. 75 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 76 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, like they actually sent three different pairs, so like 77 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 3: Jefferson could just mix and match however he wanted. 78 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 2: Oh wow, Well, his thinking was probably that if he 79 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: taxidermied it, that that bouffant would claim shenanigans. 80 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: That's not that's not bad, sort of like the Beast 81 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 1: of Gadon in Brotherhood of the Wolf. 82 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: Right. 83 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: But okay, so we also we know this had to 84 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: happen the governor of New Hampshire. Here's this bizarrely specific request. 85 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: It probably reaches out to Tommy's buddies and they're like, look, man, 86 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: it'll just be easier if you say yes. 87 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 2: This is also the kind of thing you could probably 88 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: only do if you you were a guy like Thomas Jeffers. 89 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 2: Don't know that they would allow you to send a 90 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: moose through the post otherwise. Yeah, again, not clear exactly, 91 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 2: I'm sure he didn't use the post, but you get them, 92 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: you get the meaning, you get. 93 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 3: My yeah yeah, fun aside. Uh, it's not clear whether 94 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 3: Buffone ever actually personally received this moose. 95 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 2: It went to a poor assistant, to some sort of 96 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 2: some underling who opened that one before. 97 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 3: Was like getting on in his ears. He wasn't really 98 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 3: doing I think he was out of Paris at the 99 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 3: time when the thing arrived. Jefferson did apologize for the 100 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 3: state of the moose and his like note when he 101 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 3: when he left it with this poor assistant, and insisted 102 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 3: later that Buffon had received it and was very impressed 103 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 3: and was going to issue a correction but just happened 104 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 3: to die before he got around to it. 105 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: There we go, There we go. Unfortunate Lord, how accurate 106 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: do we think Tommy's claim is here? 107 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 3: One on one to ten? That's uh no, okay, that's 108 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 3: living with the under fence. 109 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: Okay, there we go. Okay, So at best we could 110 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: say that maybe Thomas Jefferson believed that to be the case. 111 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, snope, says probably not unlikely. 112 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, underpants, underfants, Yeah. 113 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, but okay, so yeah, so moose aside aside, Uh, 114 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 3: Thomas Jefferson did wind up winning this one. There was 115 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 3: all of his evidence, partially about weasel taints, that got 116 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 3: published in Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia in 117 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 3: seventeen eighty five. So with mounting evidence against Pafollone's theory, 118 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 3: it fell apart, like the corpse of a moose arriving 119 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 3: in Paris a year after its untimely and a continent away. 120 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: Loves to it's very well done. 121 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my sweaty ball's voice. That's a shadows. 122 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: So this sounds like it might be the end of 123 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: the tail. But asute ridiculous historians, you'll realize that we 124 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: planted a few scenes, right, We sewed a few threads 125 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: here that we have to get to because, as you 126 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: find in your research, you're Lauren H. Thomas, Jefferson is 127 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: not the only person excited, right, He's not the only 128 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: polymath or learned, learned character who gets an obsession with 129 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: these bones. 130 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: Can I just say it's it's it's It may be 131 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: the end of the tail, but it's just the beginning 132 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 2: of the taint. 133 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: There we go, There we go. 134 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 3: I need a T shirt with that one. Yeah, No, 135 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 3: certainly not, because because the excitement about these fossils was 136 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 3: was still brewing outside of this one extremely specific grudge match. So, okay, 137 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 3: if y'all are unfamiliar with a fellow by the name 138 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 3: of Charles Wilson Peel was Charlie. Yeah, yeah, Chuck yeah. 139 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 3: He was this artist and another polymathia who famously had 140 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 3: painted portraits of like a lot of the figures of 141 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 3: the American Revolution. He later opened one of the first 142 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 3: museums in the United States in Philadelphia, and by early 143 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 3: eighteen oh one his museum was housed in the same 144 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 3: building as the American Philosophical Society, which was then helmed 145 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 3: by Thomas Jefferson. So they were like keen on these 146 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 3: fossil digs, and when they got word of this spectacular 147 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 3: find in the Hudson River Valley in eighteen oh one, 148 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 3: they funded Peel to put together this complex excavation, and 149 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 3: he wound up bringing back two partial master don skeletons, 150 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 3: and him and his team set to work compiling a 151 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 3: single standing model for them. The team, by the way, 152 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 3: included one Moses Williams, an enslaved man who was himself 153 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 3: a talented artist and the first known black museum professional 154 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 3: in the country, but so with their work. By on 155 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 3: Christmas Eve of that year, they opened this display of 156 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 3: a near complete fossil model of what they called at 157 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 3: the time of Mammoth. It was the second ever fossil 158 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 3: skeleton to be assembled in the world, and it was 159 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 3: a spulash. It was really impressive. Like they used basically 160 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 3: like for missing bones, they used bilateral symmetry and best 161 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 3: guesses from extant animals to carve replacements from wood. That's 162 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 3: basically what we still do today. The model was eleven 163 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 3: feet tall. 164 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: It was cool. 165 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 3: They did still have the tusks turned around the wrong 166 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 3: way because they still thought this thing was a carnivore. 167 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 3: But you know, like no one had ever seen anything 168 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 3: like this before, and people felt a sense of like 169 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 3: nationalistic pride about this huge American beast. 170 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: Only in America. Baby. 171 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 4: Yeah. 172 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: Question for the class, did they have a trunk? 173 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, no, it was it was just 174 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 3: the it was just the fossil model, So they didn't 175 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 3: they didn't have they fled it out, They didn't build 176 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 3: out any flush on it or anything like that. 177 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 2: So can we just do a quick reminder that I 178 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 2: believe it was Bouffa who had made the assertion that 179 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 2: no such creature could ever possibly flourish in the swampy 180 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 2: uh you know, garbage, United States. They really did become 181 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 2: a point of pride. We can make big, big boys too. 182 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 183 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 3: And so, of course, with all of this like mounting excitement, 184 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 3: uh you know, when Jefferson got elected president and made 185 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 3: the Louisiana purchase and sent Lewis and Clark out to 186 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 3: survey this newly acquired land. A couple of years later 187 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 3: in eighteen oh three, he was like, yo, Lewis and Clark, 188 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 3: make sure you're on the lookout for living mammoths. 189 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,119 Speaker 1: Because nothing ever dies permanently. 190 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 3: Because they still did not believe in extinction. 191 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 2: So I'm curious about like where this sort of it 192 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 2: seems like it's almost a philosophical divide, Like surely there 193 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 2: were people suggesting that this was possible, not entirely, no, really. 194 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 3: Okay, like like like even to naturalists who were the 195 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 3: most keyed in to all of this kind of stuff. 196 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 3: Like the basic idea from what I understand about it 197 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 3: is that that was floating around at the time is 198 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 3: that assuming that the Earth is a divine and perfect creation, 199 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 3: if that is true, then no part of it can 200 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 3: ever truly perish. 201 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 4: Okay, So still following from from from scripture, like God 202 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 4: has great ideas, and so if God ever went back 203 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 4: on one of those ideas, like a flood or something, 204 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 4: we would know about it from our book. 205 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 2: Which is fascinating considering that war and famine and you know, 206 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 2: horrific things were happening all over the place, and somehow 207 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 2: that doesn't fly in the world. 208 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 3: But that's humanity's well fair, humanity is pross realiser. 209 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: One natural problem. 210 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: Is there heretical? It is to say that the for instance, 211 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: the cow was created and now and the cow was 212 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: created by divinity, and therefore the cow is as perfect 213 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 1: as a cow can be, So why would it be 214 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: gone from the world? Right? Think about that? 215 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 2: That must have been a real philosophical divirus. Yes, all 216 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 2: the evils of man arise from Satan and all of that, 217 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 2: but the animal kingdom and the natural world is not 218 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 2: subject to that. 219 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 220 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, some of these people didn't have a literal belief 221 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 3: in the Bible anymore, but there was a belief in 222 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 3: like a great chain of being. There was still a 223 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 3: concept that that right, that that nature is all encompassing 224 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 3: and knows what it's doing. 225 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, like the Watchmaker God, Jefferson's very into that the 226 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: deism there is a thing that or the deistic aspect, 227 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: there is a thing that happened that created everything, and 228 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: now it's just sort of like how Lord Michaels doesn't 229 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 1: often appear on camera on Saturday Night Live like he 230 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: made the thing. He definitely made it, or they definitely 231 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: made it, but now is not a super active participant. 232 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 233 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 3: So the belief at the time was that, you know, 234 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 3: anything that they were finding remains of must still be 235 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 3: running around somewhere in some yet unexplored corner of the world. 236 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 3: And again racistly, they were like, oh, the North American 237 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 3: West is totally unexplored. No people have ever been. 238 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: There because we haven't seen it yet. 239 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, spoiler alert, Lewis and Clark did not find any 240 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 3: living mamoths. 241 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: Boo Ben. 242 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 2: Remember that was is it? It called manifest Destiny that 243 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 2: Comico series. I never really dug into it past the 244 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 2: first couple issues. But isn't that sort of like a 245 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 2: world where Lewis and Clark discover like weird stuff at 246 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 2: it's a great I thought you'd like it. They reminded 247 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 2: me of like what we what they were hoping to 248 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: find in some way. 249 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great read. I think I've got the 250 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: trades if if you want to, if you want to 251 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: check about. But that's a great call out there, nol. 252 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: And indeed, the real story of the Lewis and Clark 253 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: expedition is full of larger than life stuff. They didn't 254 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: find any living mammoths, but they they got they found 255 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: a lot of other stuff, and they got into a 256 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: lot of well check out our earlier episodes while this 257 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: is taking place. We got we got to go back 258 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: to France. As you said, the noble Buffore has passed 259 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: away by this. 260 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 3: Point, he has, he was gone by the turn of 261 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 3: the eighteen hundreds. But there were other naturalists, and even 262 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 3: at this point an anatomist, this French anatomist by the 263 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 3: name of George Cuvier. He had been pouring over these 264 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 3: different samples of extant elephants and elephant like fossils that 265 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 3: had been collected in Paris, and in eighteen oh six 266 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 3: he published the study that was remarkable in a number 267 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 3: of ways. First, he determined that the incognitum was in 268 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 3: fact a separate species from the mammoths. He was like different, 269 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 3: different dudes, we can put that one to rest. And 270 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 3: he named it. He named the incognitum mastadante. 271 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: This is my favorite part, by the way. 272 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, So the reason that it's called mastadante, you know, 273 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 3: I had always looked at that word mastadon and assumed 274 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 3: that it was like masked is in like masticate and 275 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 3: don is in tooth. But it turns out it's masked 276 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 3: as in breast because because this heck in French dude 277 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 3: looked at those aforementioned knobby cusps on these big old 278 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 3: molars and thought they reminded him of boobs. 279 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 2: Ah the French. 280 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: I want to read whatever love poetry, he wrote to 281 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: his paravores. Ah, my dear your teeth the breastwit no, no. 282 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 2: No, wait, giant nuggets of cream. 283 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: I got Ben before you got on the call. 284 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 2: It was me, Nolan and Lauren, and somehow we got 285 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 2: into the note of James Joyce Love Letters and I 286 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 2: read next. 287 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: You are reading, Ben. Lauren had not heard it. It 288 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: was disturbing. 289 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: It was like you happened to pick a passage. He 290 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 2: just went on, Dude, it went on. 291 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: It was like I read a sentence and the sentence 292 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: was short. I'm like, okay, I'll read one more sentence. 293 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: The next sentence was like seven lines lost. 294 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 3: No, it's just very yeah, very style. Yeah, but also 295 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 3: really about farts. 296 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: So, guys, speaking of pros. When I first heard Master Dante, 297 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: I just immediately it's maybe it's also what's going on. 298 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: I went to Masta Dante's Inferno. I thought maybe there 299 00:16:58,560 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: was some connection to that. 300 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 2: It'd be sick to do a version of Dante's Inferno 301 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 2: where all where it was just all animals. How has 302 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 2: that not been done? I'm sure somebody it's like, well 303 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 2: it's Zotopia fiant. 304 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and so okay, Cufier here is our Despite 305 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 1: his parent predilections for names, he is again a credible 306 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: scientist in his field. And this is where we pay 307 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: off on our note about extinction, because isn't he the 308 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: guy who said there's probably no more of these Yeah? 309 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? 310 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 3: He uh, Using all of this this research that he 311 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 3: had done into these bones and these fossils, he presented 312 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,959 Speaker 3: this at the time truly shocking hypothesis that both mammos 313 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:52,479 Speaker 3: and mastodons were extinct, that they were too different from 314 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 3: living elephants to be the same creatures as living elephants, 315 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,239 Speaker 3: and furthermore, that there was no evidence that they were 316 00:17:58,280 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 3: still roaming the earth. 317 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: And he doesn't stop there, right, he goes. He says, further, 318 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: extinction is not just some elephantine phenomena, right. 319 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,479 Speaker 3: No, No, He laid out this concept that throughout history 320 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 3: there had been like periodic catastrophic die offs, after which 321 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 3: he thought that new species had supernaturally arisen and that 322 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 3: the cycle continues. 323 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: So you're almost there. 324 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 2: But right there, guys, guys, I'm just sorry, really quickly. 325 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:35,479 Speaker 2: How come credible means to be believed and incredible means awesome. 326 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: Incredible means Now, in American English we use it to 327 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: say something is so good as to be nigh unbelievable. 328 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 2: Seems like incredible would mean not credible. 329 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: What I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a weird language, man, 330 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: because then you got canny and uncanny, and then you 331 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: have oh gosh, there's uh oh, I have a list 332 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: of these all right, different show different, But yes, you're right. 333 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 3: Let's let's circle back about that etymology show that we've 334 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 3: been meaning to get around. 335 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: How many how many decades has that been the on 336 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: the docket. 337 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 3: I don't like to think about that one. 338 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 2: Old we're just seasoned to be fair. 339 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 3: I don't know what time is anymore so here who does? 340 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 3: But yeah, so so he did not have a concept 341 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 3: of evolution yet, Like we wouldn't get into that until 342 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 3: another half century later with Charles Darwin's work. Also, Coovier 343 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 3: was again really racist, like he believed in like like 344 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 3: like structural racism in terms of like body types and 345 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 3: stuff like that. 346 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: But forehead and walk. 347 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 348 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 3: But but this thing was basically when the like wide 349 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 3: European scientific community started taking the idea of extinction seriously. 350 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 3: And it's all thanks to elephants and mammoths and mastodonts. 351 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: This is peak ridiculous history. This is a story that 352 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: I think none of the three of us knew in full. 353 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: And we have just some follow up facts we have 354 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: to add in here on behalf of all our ridiculous 355 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: historians who are thinking back to about an hour ago 356 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: when a huge tooth rolled down a hill and a 357 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: farmer found. 358 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 2: It, a six pound moler, right right, So on their. 359 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: Behalf we have to ask you, where's the tooth? What 360 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: happened to the tooth? 361 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 3: Well, it wound up in the hands of New York's 362 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 3: governor at the time, one Lord Cornberry, who sent. 363 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: It back Lord Cornbury. 364 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, right who? And he was only styled 365 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 3: as such for I think about seven years. I could 366 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 3: be I could be wrong. This This was an interesting 367 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 3: dude in his own right. His enemies wrote about him 368 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 3: cross dressing all the time. No one is sure whether 369 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 3: that's true or not. But anyway, he sent it back 370 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 3: to London labeled a giant's tooth. 371 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 2: He might have just meant a giantth No, no, he 372 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 2: meant he met the tooth of a giant. 373 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: Okay from the Bible the benefit of the doubt. Yes, yes, 374 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: we we also had a couple of other threads. Probably 375 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: the one that's going to interest a lot of us 376 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: is we know Cotton Mather saw himself as a pious 377 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: witch hunter. But Lauren, could you tell us a little 378 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 1: bit more about that less well known fact about his uh, 379 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: his work against smallpox? Yeah? 380 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. So Mather was able to offer a form 381 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 3: of inoculation to Bostonia during this seventeen twenty smallpox epidemic 382 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 3: because a man he enslaved explained to him how inoculation works. 383 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 2: Well, he stole the idea from an enslaved man charged wow, yeah. 384 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't even know the dude's given name. Mather 385 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 3: called him Anisimus. And this guy's society back in Africa 386 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 3: had developed variolation, which is a form of inoculation. It's 387 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 3: the deliberate infection of a patient with a disease in 388 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 3: order to treat a bit immunity from it, right right, 389 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 3: And he even said, like, you can tell who's had 390 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 3: it because of the little scar on their arm. 391 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 2: You know what's interesting that I had never that, I 392 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 2: had no idea that that was something discovered in that fashion, 393 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 2: But it does make sense in the same way you 394 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 2: take a little bit of snake venom to get immune 395 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 2: to snake venom. 396 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, make the antidote, yeah yeah. 397 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 3: And so lots of Bostonians at the time thought this 398 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 3: was real silly, But two hundred and forty two people 399 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 3: wound up volunteering for this inoculation crusade, and only two 400 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 3: percent of those people died during that small pox outbreak, 401 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 3: compared to fourteen percent of the general population. 402 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: So pretty good, pretty good. These sound brutal, but folks, 403 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: you got to realize those are great numbers. Oh sure, 404 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: I sounded a little great numbers. It's a great. 405 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,360 Speaker 2: Especially without doing Bernie Sanders. 406 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: No, exactly right, it's crazy. 407 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 2: So just to be clear, they would inject blood or 408 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 2: oh yeah. 409 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 3: They just take like a little scraping like like a 410 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 3: little bit of blood or like a little bit of 411 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 3: like tissue sample or something and just kind of like 412 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 3: poke it into your arc. Yes, just grinded in there. 413 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 3: And he Smith's wound up buying his freedom around seventeen sixteen, 414 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 3: so before all of this really went down, and we 415 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 3: know so much about him, relatively because Mather was obsessed 416 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 3: with converting him to christian and wrote about him a lot. 417 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, So he has a diary on how after 418 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: he took this guy's idea he I guess maybe he 419 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: saw it as trading ideas and he said, here, I'll 420 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: give you Christianity in return. But you guys think in 421 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: this Mather dude not a good guy. He's not my favorite. 422 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: He's no Increase Math. 423 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 2: The more I learn about him, the less I like, 424 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 2: which is true. 425 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: He's related to a guide him Increase Mather talking about 426 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: an ambitious name. It's it's no anesmis, but it is 427 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: I think awesome that this guy found emancipation, even though 428 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: it's an incredibly crappy way. Yeah, it is a happy ending, 429 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: and we have to We've been talking about something Lauren 430 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: that is right up your alley if you haven't seen 431 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: it yet, Life Larry and the Pursuit of Unhappiness. No, 432 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: the new Larry David History a historical reenactment. 433 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: It's like he's does like an alternate history version of 434 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 2: the you know, creation of the Constitution, and he has 435 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 2: all these grievances and you know, the Declaration of Independence, 436 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 2: and his character who supposedly wrote the first draft, wants 437 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 2: to include things like it's illegal to stroke one's beard 438 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 2: and to share an umbrella and. 439 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 3: And Larry Davis. 440 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of bad, but also kind of it's 441 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 2: good bad, you. 442 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: Know what I mean. 443 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 3: Larry David's gig is a little bit a little. 444 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I mean, it's it's it's sketch comedy, so 445 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: it's inherently going to be it's sketch. There we go. 446 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: That's a perfect way to say it. So, as we've 447 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: mentioned in the past, one thing that we always want 448 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: to do is connect these tales to the present day 449 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: when possible for everybody who is wondering what happened to 450 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: the tooth. We also have some good news about what 451 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: happened to the mastodont. 452 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, that first the peel Master John, that first one 453 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 3: that was put together, is now housed at a museum 454 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: in Germany. And I'm willing to try bad French. I 455 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 3: feel with the last name Fogelbaum, I should not try 456 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 3: bad German. But you can. You can like search like 457 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 3: peel mastered on Museum Germany. It'll come up. 458 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 2: Are you talking about the one of the hesi kish 459 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 2: landa museum Domstadt. 460 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 3: That's the one. 461 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: Thank you, you know, I was once a small German boy. 462 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 3: Yes, Oh you're still a small German boy, thanks so much. Yeah, 463 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 3: And there are some of the other fossils that have 464 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 3: been taken from Big Bone Lick have wound up all 465 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 3: over the world, but also at a museum on site 466 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 3: because Big Bone Lick is now incorporated into a state 467 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 3: park in Kentucky. 468 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 2: So yeah, you get Big Bone Lick sound like it 469 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 2: would be like a Pearl Jam offshoot band, you know, 470 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 2: or some kind of. 471 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: Feels like an ac DC song. 472 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: That's also true where I think I'm thinking of Mother 473 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 2: Love Bone which was a a Pearl Jama Jason Bamba 474 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 2: Big Bone Lick feels like it qualifies, but it is 475 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 2: a little more metal coded. 476 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: Sorry, Laura, I didn't mean to cut you. 477 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no no. Now I'm 478 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 3: picturing like something where everyone's wearing like cavemen costumes. I 479 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 3: think it's I think it's going to be a good video. 480 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: It's going to be at least a good video. I've 481 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: thought it a. 482 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 3: Bad song, but a good video. 483 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: There we go, and we also knew. We also know 484 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: there is a reason we were given Tommy Big Something 485 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: Jefferson a lot of guff about his passion project because 486 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: we're doing this for fun in twenty twenty six, but 487 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: it appears a lot of other people in his lifetime 488 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: we're kind of giving him some grief about it as well. 489 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so you know, like I don't know, it's 490 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 3: hard for me to say, right because I'm I'm a 491 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 3: nerd too. Me and Big Something have that in common. 492 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 3: But you know, like, but I love a natural history museum. 493 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 3: I love going and looking at the big old fossils 494 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 3: or models or whatever it is that they are at 495 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 3: the time. You know, like it was like forty years. 496 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 3: It was like the eighteen forties before dinosaurs were recognized 497 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 3: for what they are and started to catch the world's imagination. 498 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 2: So fascination was seen as a little kooky. 499 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 3: Well yeah, so people were like, what are you talking about? 500 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: The whom? 501 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 3: And like during the presidential race of eighteen hundred, his 502 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:34,479 Speaker 3: political opponents mocked his love of fossils so much they 503 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 3: were like, what, what why. 504 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: I'll show you one day. Proud, well, believe me, proud 505 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: people of this new nation. We stand together in the 506 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: belief that Tobby Jefferson is just a weird nerd folks, 507 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: just a weird little fossil boy. He's like Gollumn with fossils, 508 00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: which will make sense later when a guy named Tolkien 509 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: and writes some books. 510 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 3: Yeah no, no one really understood it at the time. 511 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 3: It was very niche. 512 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: It was also brutal, like we hear so often, especially 513 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: in recent decades, about the lack of civility in the 514 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: political sphere and how people are becoming mud slingers and 515 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: so on. But folks, you have you may have no 516 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: idea how much crazier it was back in the day. 517 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: Right we talked about the accusations of a governor being 518 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: being said to dress in women's clothing. But every time 519 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: there was a presidential race in the eighteen hundreds, it 520 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: got dirty so quickly people were. 521 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 2: Something like nothing like the way it is today, everyone's 522 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 2: so cordial, courteous. 523 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,719 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, at least you know, like like now 524 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 3: it's just clips on the tiktoks or whatever it is, 525 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 3: like like at the time, this was you know, like 526 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: a several page essay that would be just a complete takedown. 527 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: Awesome in the union. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And through the 528 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: magic of editing, we went off the air for a 529 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: second to read parts of these this political takedown, this 530 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: takedown piece. It is long, it is very in depth. 531 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: It is worth your time checking out. And Lauren, we 532 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: can't thank you enough for joining us and sharing this 533 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: story with us in a two part series. Dude, where 534 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: can people go to learn more about your work? 535 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 3: Oh goodness. So the show that I currently have running 536 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 3: is called brain Stuff. That's one word. It can be 537 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 3: found wherever you get your podcasts. Again. Yeah, it's just 538 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 3: a little short form science and history. 539 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 2: Show and multiple installments a week, right, yes, yes, an 540 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 2: insane catalog. 541 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, Yeah, I think that we hit two 542 00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 3: thousand new episode like like original episodes recently. I'm not 543 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 3: sure though, that could be a made up number. It's 544 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 3: been running for a long time. 545 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 2: All numbers for me, that's accurate. 546 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I've been doing it about as long as 547 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 3: y'all have been doing Ridiculous History. There were other hosts 548 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 3: before that, but I'm better but no, no, no, no, 549 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 3: no no no, much much respect to uh, to Christian 550 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 3: Seger and also Marcial Brain. But yeah, that's that's the 551 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 3: one that I'm working on right now. If you want 552 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 3: to listen to me, do that Schweaty Ball's voice. American 553 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 3: Shadows is a great show I was doing with Aaron 554 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 3: Menke's team that gets into dark little corners of American history. 555 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: Like which trials types stot. 556 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, yeah yeah. And other than that, I 557 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 3: don't know. Find me on the internets, my hand my 558 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 3: my handle on Blue Sky and Instagram is vogel Bomb 559 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 3: b O m B v. 560 00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 5: O g E l B O m B A lot 561 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 5: that one down had the luck and UH and folks, 562 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 5: please stay tuned for future episodes of Ridiculous History, where 563 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 5: we will have Lauren Vogelbaum returning. 564 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: Hopefully we won't have to wait nine years. We'll give 565 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: you five. 566 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 3: We'll talk about it. 567 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: It's all scheduling. Big, big thanks to our super producer, 568 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: mister Max Williams. Big thanks to A. J. Bahamas Jacobs, 569 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: doctor Rachel Big, Spinach Lance and who else whose. 570 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 2: Well jeez Ben Christopher Osciotis and he's Jeff Coats here 571 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 2: in Spira. Jonathan Strickland, Lauren's former co host on Tech Stuff, 572 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 2: which has evolved, and we'll think oswall Oshan. Why don't 573 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 2: want the current host of tech Stuff? It's another show 574 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 2: you did for a long time. Sorry to let the 575 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 2: cant of the bag? 576 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: Where does that come from? Anyway? How how often were 577 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: people putting cats and bags? Sorry for a different day. 578 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: They think they would like drown kittens in the. 579 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 3: Right. 580 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: We've got to keep going, big, big thanks to the 581 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: rude dudes of ridiculous crime. If you dig us, you 582 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: love them, of course, one more time, just for safety's sake, 583 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: superproducer mister Max Williams. And big thanks to everybody who 584 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: found a weird bone and said I should look into 585 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: this and I should maybe put it into my pinow. 586 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks, for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 587 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen 588 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.