WEBVTT - Saw 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:02.160 On the Bechdel Cast. 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.680 The questions asked if movies have women and them, are 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.440 all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:13.960 have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zephy Beast, start changing it 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.040 with the Bechdel Cast. 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.560 Jamie, let's play a game. 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:24.800 What the game is? I just woke up. I don't 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:25.239 know where. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.320 You have to play the game and play by all 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:33.960 the rules. And the game that you're playing is releasing 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:39.560 a Matreon episode about Saw, which will be the inciting 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:43.000 incident that we have to cover all the rest of 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.680 the Saw movies on the Bechdel Cast. And if we 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:51.040 don't do that within six months, jicks I will kill us. 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.160 Usually, I feel like if there's one thing Jigsaw loves 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:57.600 is to chop off a leg. It's his favorite. It's 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.480 one of you, it's one of his favorites. Welcome to 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.920 the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jigsaw, Jamie whoa. 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.880 My name is Caitlin Sawante. 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:09.959 WHOA? 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.160 No, I like it, Sae. Let's let's fucking go. 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:16.440 Yeah, let's do it. 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.160 And it's true. Today we're playing a game, the game 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:21.720 being unlocking a Matreon episode. 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.440 Because the way that the characters and Saw movies have 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:30.240 to unlock little chains and and shackles and boxes. 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:38.000 And uh yeah, we do this every so often. And 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:40.560 if you enjoy this episode, it's just Caitlin and I 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.720 were talking about Saw. Obviously. It was recorded last year 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.960 obviously obviously, And if you like the sort of like 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.000 more casual tone of this episode, that's what you can 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:58.160 expect from our Matreon hot plug incoming. Yes, we have 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:03.800 a Matreon Patreona slash Bechtel cast where every month Caitlin 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:08.000 and I based on a theme that always definitely makes 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:12.480 a lot of sense. We talk about two movies. So 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:14.680 if you go over there right now and you enjoyed 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:16.919 this episode, you can go and get over one hundred 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.760 and fifty episodes that are not on our main feed. 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:25.519 And it's only five bucks a month. Come on, a bargain, 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:26.320 Come on. 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.520 So, yes, this is our Saw episode that we released 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.720 around two years ago. But since two oh my goodness, 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:38.120 it was your birthday. You did it for your birthday 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.920 month in August. I believe I was right to coming 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:41.840 up on two years ago. 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:45.960 Yeah, so quickly, before we get to the episode, let's 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.519 do a little bit of a housekeeping. This episode is 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.120 a little more informal, So in case you haven't listened 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.440 to the show before, weird place to start, but hey, welcome, 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.600 This is our podcast where we talk about your favorite 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:02.519 movies using an intersection feminist lens, but this time it's 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:06.200 like a spiky little lens that could kill you. 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:13.080 Oh no, yeah, oh no. The Saw test, where if 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:18.919 you don't play jigsauce game, he'll chop off your limbs. 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.160 Yeah, he'll do something really terrible to you because he 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.920 is not an ally, which is actually true. I feel 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.320 like I've seen people be like, actually, Jigsaw is an 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.960 ally because he hired a woman, and you're like, that's 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:39.640 not how that works. Jigsaw is lawless, he's anti everyone. Yes, 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.480 he's anarchy, he's chaos. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.720 It's true. So Jigsaw plays by the Saw test. We 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.600 play by the Bechdel test, except we don't even really 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:49.840 do that except for talk about it for three minutes 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.360 every episode, and then the rest of the time is 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:54.960 us having serious discourse but. 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:58.280 Also goofing sorriest discourse. 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:02.400 Whoa, oh my gosh. 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.120 What if Jigsaw had an air horn? That would be 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.680 so that would have to be like and then we 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.160 can't make any more movies, if we give Jigsaw, okay, anyways, 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:12.120 what's the Bechdel test. 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.080 It's a media metric sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:19.320 that first appeared in queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel's comic in 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.680 nineteen eighty five, Dikes to Watch out For And it 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.480 was intended as a bit as a goof. And there 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.800 are many versions of the test. The one that we 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.599 use is this, do two characters of a marginalized gender 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.080 have names? Do those characters speak to each other? And 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:41.640 is there conversation about something other than a man? And 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.760 then another little caveat we give is is it a 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:51.520 narratively meaningful conversation which we prefer over like throwaway dialogue 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:53.360 that might pass the Bechdel test? 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.800 And that's where they get you, and that's where they 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:57.799 get you. And we'll leave it at that. But before 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:00.840 we cut to the episode, because and I are very 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:05.920 invested in Saw, Yeah, the franchise spoiler alert, we're talking 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.400 about Saw because we really like it and it's been 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:13.200 almost two years, so let's just like rapid fire some 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:14.960 Saw updates. I think the first thing that comes to 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.560 mind is we just saw Saw the musical together that's right. 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.520 I saw the musical on Broadway, and by Broadway, I 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.320 mean a very small theater in Los Angeles, California. Ever 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:24.920 heard of it? 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.120 Very small space, impossible to pe mid show. 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:33.400 Yes, And that's why I missed the last like twenty 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:34.920 minutes of the show because I had to piece about 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:36.599 I was so close to pissing my pants and so 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.640 I had to like dive over a row of people 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:45.200 as like the show's climax was climaxing. 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.920 And and it was climaxing because it was a very horny. 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.960 It was a parody musical, so it's like horny and 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.080 queer and like it was great. 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.960 I highly recommend if you live in LA. It goes 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.600 up in New York, and I believe a few other 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:01.240 cities around the US. 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.839 San Diego, like it's it seems to be making the rounds. 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.400 If it's still making the rounds and it's in your town, 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.719 you gotta go see saw the musical. 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:11.159 And I need to see it again because again I 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.599 missed the last twenty minutes because I had to go pee, 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.800 and then I didn't feel comfortable coming back in because 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.320 I felt like it would have been disruptive to the show. 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:21.880 Because it was a rather small theater. So I was like, well, 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:26.480 I'll just have to guess at what happens. I'm guessing 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:28.200 someone saw the off. 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.919 Yeah, it doesn't severely deviate from the narrative, but like, 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.920 don't take my word for it. Ye, Seesaw the musical again, 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:40.520 Seesaw the Musical. Okay, your turn for a Saw update. 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:44.600 Okay. I dressed up as jig Saw for Halloween. We 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.839 did you the most recent Halloween that we had brag. Oh, 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.719 and I went to a party that was within bicycling 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:56.320 distance of my apartment, so I wasn't a tricycle and 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:00.120 that was my horrible blunder. But I did write a 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.880 bicycle to the party. So I'm like, rolling up as Jigsaw. 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:08.880 I did not know that. That's so funny. Yeah, I forgot. 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:12.640 I forgot because didn't we pick you up from that party? 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:14.320 Or I'm trying to remember. 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:16.960 It was a different one. Wow, because we just I 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.280 get invited to so many freaking parties. 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:25.080 Oh yeah, my others Saw update is that And you 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.160 can watch it right now in HBO Max, unless by 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:30.080 the time you listen to this HPO Max has. 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:35.520 Deleted more stuff. But I was a writer and producer 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.800 on a show called Teenage Ethanasia. It's a great show, 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.560 two great seasons, and in our second season, I pitched 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:46.040 and successfully executed a character named jug Saw. And I 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.280 think by the name you can sort of guess what 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.280 Jugsaw's whole deal is, girl. 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.920 Jigsaw jug is in like jugs is in, big old hawkers. 0:07:56.200 --> 0:08:00.560 Okay, big old honkers. Yeah, I mean I would say, 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.120 I can't say anything else. I refuse to say anything else. 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:08.200 Let me just grab the name of the episode in 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:12.120 case you need to go watch jug Saw. She has 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:15.360 a whole story. Come on, trust me, we've been doing 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:17.720 this podcast. You think I'm not gonna write Jugsaw a 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:22.160 complicated backstory and a problem with her mother, of course 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:22.600 I am. 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:27.720 Of course, from now on, all stories are about Jugsaws 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:29.520 and their moms. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:33.480 And their moms. It's drama. Okay. So the name of 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:40.200 it is Viva la Flappanista, Season two, episode six of 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:44.400 Teenage Euthanasia. Go check it out. Amazing, and just check 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:48.120 out the whole show. It's fun. We got canceled. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.520 That's fine, Sorry about it? 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.520 Whatever the Saw episode? Do you have any other Saw updates? 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:54.400 I have two? 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:56.880 Oh? Okay, Well, I guess we also didn't talk about 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:57.400 Saw X. 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.880 Well, yeah, that's one of them. So since this episode 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.800 was released on the Matreon, Saw X aka Saw ten 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.400 came out. We both saw in theaters, not together unfortunately 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:12.439 saw We saw Saw X. 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.920 Now what did you? I don't remember your review of 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:16.640 Saw X. 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.840 I thought it was bad, but I still loved every 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:23.040 second of it. Like it was not a well written movie. 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.640 I think it was one of the weaker installments in 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:30.840 the French highs. But I did pay money. Well, no, 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:32.480 I probably didn't pay money. I went to see it 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:36.439 with my amc A list stubs membership. I know I 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:40.000 always because we come to this place for Saw for magic. 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.720 You know, these days Nicole's watching She's watching Austin Butler Elvis. 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:47.040 I saw her watching Lady Gaga Star is born the 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:50.079 other day. Oh they have even more. They just keep 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:54.400 switching out her movies. WHOA Okay, I also saw Saw X. 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:59.880 I also thought it was maybe not so awesome, sauce 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:05.080 so like, but like a not Saw. Some Saw movie 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:09.240 is still better than or. I'm gonna enjoy myself more 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.560 than ninety percent of movies because it's just really fun 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.400 to like show up in a movie rubbing your hands together, 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:17.880 being like, now, what is he gonna get up to? 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.679 And it's always something. He's always gonna get it up 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:26.080 to something. So I thought it was good conclusion. I 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.640 thought it was an awesome, perfect movie. I love Tobin Bell. 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.320 I love that he's still sawing after all these years. 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.800 He's eighty one. Whoa yeah, so he is like he 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.080 is in it to win it. I hope we have 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.319 a lot more Saw movies with Tobin Bell. Same, okay, 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:43.800 do you have any more? That's all my songs? 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:48.000 It's okay, yes, my final one is that. So our 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:52.320 mutual friend Briant and I often watch movies together and 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.760 we kept being like, should we watch a Saw movie? 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.200 And we would go and see if it was available 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.240 to stream anymore, and most of them are only available 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.280 to rent, and so you pay three ninety nine to 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:06.080 rent it. We're like, Okay, there's got to be a 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.800 more cost effective way to do this, because I don't 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.880 want to spend three ninety nine on like ten Saw movies. 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:13.880 So what I did instead is I bought one of 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:18.440 those like Blu Ray bundles with the first eight Saw 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.079 movies on Blu Ray, and it was. 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:22.679 Only like it just makes sense. 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:27.920 It was like twelve dollars, So that's violent. I know 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.680 it's kind of an insult to the Saw franchise, but 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:35.240 I made the investment of a lifetime and bought this 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:40.080 eight Saw movie bundle on Blu Ray, and Brian and 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:41.559 I are working our way through it. You're welcome to 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:42.959 join us at any time. 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.360 Jamie, please. I think you're out of town. I think 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.280 I was out of town when that started. Where did 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:48.040 you guys leave off? 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.120 Well, you have so far only watched Saw two together. 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:52.920 Oh so there's a lot. 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.480 Oh oh so the doors wide open? 0:11:55.800 --> 0:12:00.040 Yeah, okay, until Jigsaw slams it says. 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:05.319 Game over Sam, Sam, Okay, well, yeah, I'm in. I'm 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.560 joining in Saw three a second your home. 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.040 Okay, great, I can't wait. But yeah, those are all 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:15.880 my Saw updates. And so what we also do generally 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.640 when we release a Matreon episode to the main feed 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.439 is we'll just kind of edit it a bit, because 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:27.760 we're sometimes matreoning out a little too hard in different 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:28.839 points of the episodes. 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.560 A lot of sidebars, not like what we've been doing 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.760 for the last ten minutes, which is all very on topic, 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:35.960 all feminism. 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.800 Well, it's on topic for Saw at least, So yes, 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.160 we'll edit out some chunks here and there. Some of 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.839 it's like references to something that's like a year or 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:47.920 too old that kind of dates the episode, so I 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:49.760 kind of I try to get rid of as much 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.280 of that as I can. So I cut out a 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.880 little bit at the beginning where I pretend to be 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.800 Jigsaw and I say that we have two hours to 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.880 finish the episode, or else the episode will be too 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:06.640 long and the consequences will be dire. So when you 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:11.079 hear references to that later on, that is me doing 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:12.520 that hilarious little bit. 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:14.160 Why don't you just do it now? 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:19.439 Well, okay, tell us Jamie what it's me Jigsaw. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:24.600 Oh no, I'm also Jigsaw, but but you're in charge. 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:29.560 And it's also we're playing the game for ourselves. Oh, 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.880 we have to complete this episode within two hours, or 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.120 else the episode will be too long and it might 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.160 be annoying for some listeners. 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:42.080 Oh no, we've never made an episode too long. It 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:48.160 will be a new experience. Yeah, and we better get started. 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.600 Yeah, we better. Oh and then right when we cut in, 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:56.520 is us talking I guess questioning if Saw one is 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.320 actually a good movie or not. So this is where 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.600 we will I know, how dare we even question it? 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.000 That's as close as we get to being edge lords. 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:09.599 We're like, is I have one even good? I regret it? 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:10.280 I regret it. 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.120 Yeah it's great, and you'll hear us say many things 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.760 to that effect. But yeah, that's where we cut in. 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:23.920 So enjoy the episode. 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:34.280 Saw is Oh no, now I'm getting nervous. I was like, 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.680 I thought the first Saw was like pretty well written, Yes, 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:41.880 but I refuse to acknowledge any of the plot holes 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:42.280 in Saw. 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.360 Okay, here are my gripes with the writing of Saw, 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.200 although I think most of my gripes have to do 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:53.920 with the acting, which is atrocious from most of the 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:55.600 characters or the actors. 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.760 Who is your least who is your least fing? I mean, 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.280 I feel like we we have to make an exception 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.280 there for the legend the icon Tobin Bell as Jigsaw. 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:09.920 His performance is kind of untouchable, sure, and I can't 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.840 really be hearing anything negative about it, But everyone else 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:15.800 is doing a horrible job. Who do you think is 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:16.720 doing the worst job. 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:21.120 I think the guy who is clearly not an actor 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.760 and who co wrote this screen or wrote. 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:28.280 The screenplay Lee Wannell, Yes, I think he's doing his 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:34.000 house we Stanell Leannel. But yeah, he is not very 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:35.840 He's not a very good actor, is he. 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.200 He's not. But Carrie, you will. 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:44.040 Oh my god, Elle. I listened to the hat. I 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.240 didn't finish it. I'll be full disclosure, but I listened 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.640 to Uh. I watched this movie last week and then 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:55.320 I watched half of it with the commentary track with 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.360 Lee Wannell and James Wan And it's so cute because 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.640 they're such good friends. But they say Harry el's ellis, 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.080 elsls ols, wait os, but they're Australian, so it could 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.440 be a pronunciation thing. It tripped right off the tongue 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.440 for them. It was very easy for them. They're like, 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.560 carry elwis. The thing about him is he's really British. 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:15.560 And that's true. And you can tell that he's a 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:19.680 British person because he's letting his accent slip through on 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:21.000 almost every word. 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:24.400 Oh, they're fighting for their lives with the accents. I 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.800 don't know why they I don't know why they had 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.320 to be canonically American, because Lee Wennell is Australian and 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.080 once you know that, you're just like, oh, he's like 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.320 criking out the whole time, like just let them speak 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.720 in their natural accents. And it's so wild because you 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.000 know that, like Lee Wanne literally made that choice for 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:46.040 them on purpose. Yeah, they were young though, Like it's 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:50.480 so wild. Like James Wan is a like a middle 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.920 schooler when he directs his he's so like he's like 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:55.960 twenty six, but that's like wild. 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:59.520 Yeah, they're like pretty fresh out of film school, right 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.760 because they because James wan and Lee Wonnell, I feel 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:03.600 like also there's like. 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:08.080 Is it wonle Wannel? Is it stanyel Wannel at all? 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.320 Well, I'm trying to do like a benefit thing where 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.320 it's like love that we're kind of marrying the two 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:20.480 names together as just like Wonnle love that. Flee okay hello, 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.080 oh and Flee freaking loved it too. 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.960 And you know that's gonna that that's gonna be loud 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.760 and that's gonna pick up. Yeah, you know that. Sorry, 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.239 he's stressed out because there's been someone next door just 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:36.399 absolutely hammering something for about six days. 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:41.159 Do you think it's someone building a saw room? Do 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.440 you think it's Jigsaw's production designer? That is like one 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.359 of my I'm sure that there's either a very good 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:52.080 or very horrible sketch about that somewhere, like who's setting 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:53.640 up Jigsaw's traps? 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.119 You know that they tried that on Mad TV. I 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:57.640 would I would bet money on it. 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:01.080 And if not, Jamie, you just wrote a sketch. 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.879 Oh god, it's almost like it was almost too easy. 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.920 But yes, they're so young when they make this movie. 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:13.000 I just think it's beautiful to set James Wand on 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.679 his journey to you know, being one of my favorite 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:17.560 directors ever. 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.600 He Oh my gosh, he's the best. What was the 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.960 other movie of his we covered on the show, Aquaman? 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.119 Oh my gosh, I always forget that that was his movie. 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.480 Me too. I meant, I always forget that he's Aquaman man. 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.480 But he is Aquaman man. But but yeah, he Okay, 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:40.399 so his directorial resume is pretty wild. I'm just gonna 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:45.600 rattle some stuff off please Saw Saw three Okay, Okay, 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.560 he only directed Saw and Saw three, which not coincidentally 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:55.359 are ones. Saw two is pretty iconic as well. Saw 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:59.640 one through three are good, and then so the rest 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:00.320 are also good. 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:04.280 I've I'll get into this when we talk about our 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:09.920 histories with the Saw franchise. But I've seen way more 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:11.840 Saw movies than you might expect. 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:13.440 I'm very excited. 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:15.160 I'll tell the full story. 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:20.320 Oh I can't wait. But okay, so sorry, Saw Saw three, Insidious, 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.440 The Conjuring, in Citious, Chapter two, Furious Seven, question Mark, 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:26.080 The Conjuring Too. 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.639 Oh yeah, Fast and the Furious Seven. He directed one 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:29.840 of the Fast and the Furious movies. 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.600 I did not know that. Yeah, I knew Aquaman, I 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:37.680 knew the Conjuring franchises. All him. Malignant one of our 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.880 faves from last year, Maignant. It was the we got 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:45.600 a comfortableness of twenty twenty one one. Yeah, I think 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:50.239 we should cover that this October. Malignant was kind of 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:55.840 perfect film critible. I didn't really have any negative thoughts. Well, 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:57.600 actually I had a lot of negative thought, but like 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.280 in a good way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't have 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:02.320 a single critical thought. I was like, all I thought. 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.200 All I thought on a loop was he did it again? Anyways? 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.720 But enough about how I was essayam with James Wand 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.159 even though I forgot one of his biggest movies in 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:16.000 the space of the last minute. What's your history with 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:17.400 the Saw franchise? 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:22.720 Okay, I saw Saw Oh, I used to make a joke, 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:24.919 and this might even be something that if I like 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.639 dug through my Twitter I could find. But it's like 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:32.280 a little dialogue where someone says, like not a little 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:36.679 blog like person a sees I've seen Saw too, And 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.760 then I respond by saying, I saw Saw too too. 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:43.840 Okay, that's good. 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:46.919 That's a good joke if I do say so myself. Okay, 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:51.359 So there's no way around it. That joke rules. I 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:56.400 saw Saw right when it came out. I don't think 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.400 in theaters though, But like is ah, but I don't 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:02.400 remember it was two thousand and four. What month did 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:03.439 it come out. 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:05.520 Let's see, let's see. 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:07.760 It was October. I think it was like Halloween season. 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:12.720 Yea makes sense. It's pretty scary. I mean I would 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:14.000 say it, yeah, pretty scary. 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:16.800 So I would have just started college. I would have 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:18.520 been like a month into college, and I feel like 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.320 I was like probably too stressed out to go to 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.000 the movies. So I don't think I saw it in 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.080 the theaters. I think I would have remembered that. 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:28.800 Yeah, I mean I don't think that. I don't think 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:30.320 that this movie would have calmed you down. 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:36.760 No, but I saw it on DVD as soon as 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.520 it came out on DVD, probably a few months later, 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.240 because I remember like all the buzz about it, and 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.680 so I saw it and I remember thinking the twist 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:50.040 at the very end when Jigsaw gets up off the 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:52.240 floor the dead body you thought was a dead body 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:56.680 the whole time he starts to stand up. I was like, Oh, 0:21:56.720 --> 0:22:02.160 my freaking gosh, the biggest whist in cinema history. 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:05.240 We're not saying, oh my freaking god, it was. It 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:07.840 is good. It's one of the it's one of my 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:09.200 favorite twists ever. 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.159 It's still unexpected. It's it's truly Do. 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:14.280 You think Tobin Bell was in the room the whole time? 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:15.520 Is he that good? Oh? 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:21.040 He's like, I'm committing to this. I am in character 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:23.520 all It's he's like method acting. 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:25.960 This may have been in nine thousand movies, but his 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:31.600 most iconic role is Saw. Interestingly, he lives in Massachusetts. 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:35.159 He's like the king of a town in Massachusetts. Whoa 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:38.000 and then they have to like fly him out. They're like, oh, 0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:40.879 you want Jigsaw. He just lives in whatever Jigsaw mansion 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:45.240 in Massachusetts. One of this is this information comes from 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:48.040 a very credible source aka my brother's friend. 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:50.919 Okay, all right, okay, I. 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:52.920 Was talking to my brother cashing up with my brother's friend. 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:56.440 Side note, my brother's friends are getting hot. Don't love that? 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:58.359 Oh okay, yeah. 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.120 But but he was like, did you know that Jigsaw 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:04.880 is local? And I was like, relevant to my interests? 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:05.920 So continue? 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:09.960 Okay. So I saw Saw shortly after it was released, 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:14.399 and I remember thinking it was pretty awesome, especially oh 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.199 my gosh, like the music is Jigsaw's standing up and 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:22.960 it's like ding d D. 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:21.560 D D D. 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:23.959 Iconic. 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:27.760 John Williams could never in his life John Williams found 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:32.280 dead in a ditch after hearing it being from Saw. Unbelievable. 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.400 So I took it upon myself to continue to see 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:38.800 the Saw movies. I'm not sure if I ever saw 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.600 any of them in theaters, but there was a span 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:45.040 of time where I was, I mean, and it was 0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:48.199 a long time, and longer than maybe anyone else was 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:52.200 getting Netflix DVDs delivered to their mailbox. 0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:55.840 Yes, that's true. You were getting Netflix DVD's while this 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:56.919 show was airing. 0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:02.639 Yeah, I since stopped, but I was getting them well 0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:10.000 into probably like twenty sixteen. I mean, you know, Blessed 0:24:10.080 --> 0:24:16.800 twenty seventeen, maybe even so blessed. I saw Saw two, two, 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:23.040 and saw three, and saw four and saw five. I 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:24.320 think I stopped at five. 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:27.040 I think I stopped at six, but I but then 0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:28.960 I was reading the description for six, and I was like, 0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:32.359 honestly I could have seen this. But also right, my 0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:35.800 recall after three gets a little fuzzy. I had to 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:38.600 read through some of the things. And then did you 0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:40.320 see Spiral? I did not watch Spiral. 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:43.840 I did not see Spiral. I wanted to, but it 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:47.000 came and went in theaters in like a blip, and 0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:48.479 I completely missed it. 0:24:48.720 --> 0:24:51.280 And it was also, I think, still not a great 0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:53.640 I think it came out like right before people were 0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:56.480 actually comfortable going back to movie theaters. Well maybe that's 0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:58.840 I think it was like there was a COVID timing 0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:02.200 where they are just such a streaming kind of thing. 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:05.800 I didn't watch it. I heard its actually very very good, 0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:11.119 but I read I read a piece about it today 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:13.480 and now I'm like, oh, I do I have so 0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:17.280 many SAW tabs open right now? My god. I read 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:20.879 an article on a screen rant that I thought was 0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:24.399 quite good by a writer named Cathol Gunning. Also a 0:25:24.400 --> 0:25:29.200 great name, but I guess that the deal with Spiral, 0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:34.040 my understanding is a Jigsaw copycat killer, and they're trying 0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:37.600 to flip the franchise so that this new copycat killer 0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:41.640 is targeting cops, which is a good modern like I think, 0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:45.040 a better you know take. But then but in doing so, 0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:48.520 and this is a small gripe, I don't think it's 0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:51.960 a bad thing that Spiral is killing cops. And you 0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:55.679 can put me on the record there, but but basically 0:25:55.760 --> 0:25:58.200 it was done with the ethos of like, well, Jigsaw 0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:03.520 never killed I'm like Jigsaw spent whole movies killing cops. 0:26:04.160 --> 0:26:09.320 Jigsaw tortured detective Donnie Wahlberg, corrupt cop. 0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:14.560 Jigsaw slashes the throat of Danny Glover cop. 0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:18.800 Jigsaw famously does not like cops. Jigsaw said a cap 0:26:18.840 --> 0:26:22.200 but he also said all innocent people are bastards also, 0:26:22.320 --> 0:26:24.920 so he's just sort of like, he's like, all cops 0:26:24.920 --> 0:26:28.600 are bastards, but only because they fall under the umbrella 0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:35.440 of people. All people are apab except my wife. Okay, 0:26:35.480 --> 0:26:36.880 so kind of Jigsaw's approach. 0:26:37.760 --> 0:26:42.240 So I saw so many of the saws up to 0:26:43.000 --> 0:26:46.520 five maybe six, because I remember being like Caitlin, what 0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:49.920 are you even doing, but I kept watching them because 0:26:50.119 --> 0:26:57.040 each Saw movie has the most unexpected twist you've ever 0:26:57.040 --> 0:26:58.200 seen in any movie. 0:26:58.240 --> 0:27:03.160 Like they just know wow, they keep doing it. I 0:27:03.200 --> 0:27:07.400 know they keep movie after and like the movies do get. 0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:08.320 Worse and worse. 0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:13.800 Sure, as with any franchise I like, horror franchises are 0:27:14.080 --> 0:27:18.280 commonly associated as often getting much worse and more convoluted, 0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:21.200 But I don't think it gets as bad. If we're 0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:25.359 doing pound for pound next to other horror franchises, it 0:27:25.400 --> 0:27:26.879 could have been much worse. 0:27:27.320 --> 0:27:31.200 I mean the Halloween franchise, Oh my God, the most 0:27:31.240 --> 0:27:34.000 recent two after they tried to reboot it. The most 0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:36.640 recent Halloween movie is one of the worst movies I've 0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:38.560 ever seen in my entire life. 0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:40.160 I didn't see the second one. I thought the first 0:27:40.200 --> 0:27:42.560 one was fine and I was like, oh, it's I liked. 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:46.480 I liked hearing Jamie Lee Curtis say trauma. And other 0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:49.240 than that, I was and I love Danny McBride right, 0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:51.879 I love David Gordon Green, and I love Judy Greer, 0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:53.280 but I didn't like the movie. 0:27:53.400 --> 0:27:56.359 That one was like okay ish to me, but the 0:27:56.480 --> 0:28:02.400 second one one in their reboot series, Pep Peepee pooh pooh. 0:28:02.440 --> 0:28:06.800 Wow. Yeah, disappointing, and there's still one more and no 0:28:06.800 --> 0:28:08.480 one's got to see it. 0:28:08.680 --> 0:28:14.720 But Saw, even though the storytelling, you know, gets a 0:28:14.920 --> 0:28:19.320 bit wonky, you know, the movies decline in quality, the 0:28:19.400 --> 0:28:24.000 quality of the twists stays top notch, a great So 0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:27.119 I felt compelled to keep watching Saw movies because I 0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:29.280 was like, oh my gosh, there's no way they're going 0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:32.680 to top this twist in the movie prior to this one, 0:28:32.720 --> 0:28:36.160 and then they do. It's just like, oh, so I 0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:40.240 am a Although I hadn't seen the first Saw since 0:28:40.320 --> 0:28:43.520 like two thousand and five, and I remembered very little 0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:47.240 about it except for Jigsaw standing up at the very 0:28:47.320 --> 0:28:52.840 end being like, hey, it's me Grabe over and then 0:28:52.880 --> 0:29:00.360 you're like, so that in a very long story, is 0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:04.880 my history with the sawt franchise, Jamie, what about you? 0:29:05.480 --> 0:29:09.520 Oh? I was a late comer to the Saw franchise. 0:29:09.920 --> 0:29:11.560 I was not I mean, as I've said on the 0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:13.560 show before, I was not a horror girl growing up. 0:29:13.560 --> 0:29:17.320 I've become a horror girl as an adult. My franchise. 0:29:17.680 --> 0:29:19.840 So I only had like, I don't know what this 0:29:20.640 --> 0:29:24.720 logic was, but I only had room for one horror 0:29:24.720 --> 0:29:28.680 franchise in my formative years. Sure, and I was a 0:29:28.720 --> 0:29:31.800 Final Destination girl. I didn't have room for Saw. It 0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:35.280 was a hardline final Destination girl. Started seeing them with 0:29:35.360 --> 0:29:39.640 Final Destination three, iconically the Tanning Bed one, Slash, the 0:29:39.720 --> 0:29:44.600 roller Coaster one. It's awesome. And then I proceeded to 0:29:44.640 --> 0:29:49.479 see the rest in theaters and loved those movies. Did 0:29:49.520 --> 0:29:53.480 they hold up not even a little bit, nowhere close 0:29:53.600 --> 0:29:58.320 to Saw, I will say, but there was one my 0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:04.520 first serious relationship in high school, Thank you so much. 0:30:04.680 --> 0:30:07.680 So it'd been in two thousand and nine or ten, 0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:12.680 and story time, I've probably told you this story before 0:30:13.120 --> 0:30:15.120 and then sometimes I forgot. I'm like, oh, people are 0:30:15.160 --> 0:30:16.920 listening to this, so I do have to say it again. 0:30:17.520 --> 0:30:22.400 So in high school, I worked at a skating rink. 0:30:22.840 --> 0:30:25.120 Ice skating or roller skating. 0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:30.640 Ice skating, thus the Sambony culture. Well, also, my dad 0:30:30.720 --> 0:30:33.040 is a hockey reporter. Grew up around Zamponi's a lot 0:30:33.040 --> 0:30:35.680 of formative experiences around Zamboni's. But yeah, I worked at 0:30:35.680 --> 0:30:38.000 the snack bar and then on Friday nights I had 0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:41.360 to work in this skate like high schoolers would hand 0:30:41.400 --> 0:30:43.400 do their stinky shoes and then you had to give 0:30:43.440 --> 0:30:46.160 them skates. And it was all my classmates, and it 0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:51.920 was maybe traumatizing and humiliating because people would really delight 0:30:52.120 --> 0:30:57.000 in giving Jamie their stinky shoes while they were going 0:30:57.000 --> 0:30:59.200 on dates with my crushes, and I had to smell 0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:05.560 their shoes nasty. Anyways, I'm over it though. So anyways, 0:31:06.240 --> 0:31:11.000 had a crush on a boy who his name is Steven. 0:31:11.000 --> 0:31:14.800 I've literally made shows about him. So anyways, he came 0:31:14.960 --> 0:31:17.760 to the skating rink one day and we were not 0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:21.280 yet dating, and he was like very sweet, awkward high 0:31:21.280 --> 0:31:24.960 school boy and like tipped me one dollar and I 0:31:25.000 --> 0:31:28.160 was like, wow, oh my god, what I'm bad at 0:31:28.160 --> 0:31:31.840 this job. And then he was like, hey, I don't know, 0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:36.440 like have you seen the Saw movies? And I was 0:31:36.520 --> 0:31:38.760 like no, I haven't seen them, and he was like, 0:31:38.880 --> 0:31:41.080 oh well. I was just thinking, if you ever want 0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:43.120 to come over my house or something like we can 0:31:43.200 --> 0:31:46.800 watch the Saw movies or I don't know, and I 0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:51.320 was like okay, and then whenever later I went to 0:31:51.360 --> 0:31:55.240 his house and thought he spent five Saw movies, five 0:31:55.320 --> 0:31:58.840 whole Saw movies, no pea breaks getting the nerve up 0:31:58.880 --> 0:32:01.719 to kiss me. I was there I got there at like, wait, 0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:05.160 one pm. Yeah, and it was like ten at night. 0:32:05.600 --> 0:32:07.840 And then we finally kissed. But we watched five Saw 0:32:07.920 --> 0:32:09.760 movies in a row. We did take a pee break. 0:32:09.760 --> 0:32:13.320 I was being dramatic, but like, but we wave. 0:32:13.360 --> 0:32:17.280 You marathoned five Saw movies in one day. 0:32:17.880 --> 0:32:21.600 Yeah, and then and then and then I got a kiss. 0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:23.000 I mean, perfect day. 0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:26.080 It was kind of an awesome day in the end. Honestly, 0:32:26.120 --> 0:32:29.120 by the end, I was a little by the time 0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:31.120 he put in because he had all of them on DVD. 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:33.320 It was a weird Ultimately, it was a weird date, 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:37.560 but it was very sweet that it took someone five 0:32:37.640 --> 0:32:39.880 Saw movies to give you a little kiss. 0:32:40.720 --> 0:32:43.120 But yeah, it takes me five minutes into a Saw 0:32:43.160 --> 0:32:45.400 movie to give someone a kiss these days. 0:32:45.760 --> 0:32:47.960 I mean I would I wouldn't even get to the twist, 0:32:48.720 --> 0:32:53.240 but yeah, in this case. So anyway, I saw all 0:32:53.240 --> 0:32:55.600 five and one day, and then I just kept revisiting 0:32:55.640 --> 0:32:57.720 them over the years. I think I saw six. At 0:32:57.760 --> 0:33:01.000 one point. I definitely fell off the Saw franchise. I 0:33:01.000 --> 0:33:02.040 don't think I'm alone there. 0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:03.280 So wait, how many are there? 0:33:03.360 --> 0:33:07.800 Now? Oh? Boy, let's see, because I think that there's 0:33:08.080 --> 0:33:12.120 through They're like the titles are confusing. Wait, let's see. Okay, 0:33:12.200 --> 0:33:15.800 So we have Saws one through six. Then you have 0:33:15.960 --> 0:33:19.920 Saw three D, which is technically Saw seven, and that 0:33:20.000 --> 0:33:22.200 one I don't think i've seen, but i've heard is 0:33:22.320 --> 0:33:26.320 quite bad. Then there's Jigsaw, which is supposed to be 0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:30.160 the worst one and that's like an origin story question Mark. 0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:35.240 And then there's Spiral, which is a post Jigsaw copycat 0:33:35.520 --> 0:33:37.640 killer and that's the one with Chris Rock. 0:33:37.720 --> 0:33:44.760 Right, Okay, I don't know. Jigsaw was on my radar 0:33:45.840 --> 0:33:47.840 as something that existed. 0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:51.120 He is one of the Hollywood reporters stars to watch. 0:33:54.120 --> 0:33:58.160 It was on the you know, like eight Saw movies 0:33:58.200 --> 0:34:02.720 that you can't miss. Saw three D. I had no 0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:04.360 idea was a thing. 0:34:04.920 --> 0:34:07.719 They did the same thing with Final Destination I supposed 0:34:07.720 --> 0:34:12.160 to say Fatal Attraction. What. Yeah, they did the same thing. 0:34:12.200 --> 0:34:13.759 I think that that was just like during the three 0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:16.360 D boom in the early twenty tens, like after Avatar 0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:19.040 came out, they're like, oh, everything successful needs to be 0:34:19.080 --> 0:34:22.759 three D now, and they all kind of sucked, including Avatar. 0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:27.600 Right, Okay, So there's Saws one through six, and then 0:34:27.719 --> 0:34:31.720 Saw three D, Jigsaw, Spiral. Yeah, so that is nine 0:34:31.880 --> 0:34:33.440 Saw movies total. 0:34:33.840 --> 0:34:34.640 In the Sauna verse. 0:34:34.719 --> 0:34:36.279 Yeah, the Sauna verse. 0:34:36.840 --> 0:34:40.280 I think it's I hope they make more. They gotta 0:34:40.320 --> 0:34:43.399 make more. Sometimes you're like, kill the franchise. Enough is enough. 0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:46.400 I can't imagine getting to a plant like I probably 0:34:46.560 --> 0:34:49.120 won't see them, but I would be sad if they 0:34:49.120 --> 0:34:50.000 stopped making them. 0:34:50.320 --> 0:34:55.560 Yeah, I'm now tempted to for Halloween this year do 0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:58.160 a Saw marathon. 0:34:58.680 --> 0:35:03.240 Ah, that would be so fun. Oh oh, we would 0:35:03.239 --> 0:35:05.080 have what a time. We'd have what a time? We 0:35:05.200 --> 0:35:08.279 watch songs and then we would have to kiss after 0:35:08.320 --> 0:35:09.919 the fifth one, just because I don't know how else 0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:13.120 to act after five Saw movie. 0:35:13.160 --> 0:35:17.279 I mean, consistency is important. So yes, I consent, thank you. 0:35:17.440 --> 0:35:23.200 Uh yeah, let's let's do it. I'll have a Snathan yay. 0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:26.920 Oh okay, So our history was it's hard, Like, I 0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:30.000 think we'll try to stick to the first movie. There 0:35:30.040 --> 0:35:33.200 are like certain elements of Jigsaw that I feel like 0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:37.080 you can't not discuss further installment because you find out 0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:42.719 I mean Jigsaw. Look, do I agree with the actions 0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:48.400 he took? No? Did he have some points? I think so, 0:35:49.239 --> 0:35:52.200 I think he had some points. Now did he need 0:35:52.239 --> 0:35:55.600 to lash out like that? No, that's I had this 0:35:55.719 --> 0:35:57.719 whole jokey premise that I was going to try to 0:35:57.719 --> 0:36:03.520 start the episode with by being like Jigsaw's male privilege. 0:36:03.680 --> 0:36:08.080 What where does this guy get off thinking he can 0:36:08.280 --> 0:36:11.719 just set up all these elaborate little games that take 0:36:11.760 --> 0:36:14.279 twenty seven days to set up canonically according to the 0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:20.840 production design department, and then start killing people. That's patriarchy 0:36:21.040 --> 0:36:21.799 and actions. 0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:26.719 But see, my version of that is like, you know 0:36:26.800 --> 0:36:30.640 how like Viola Davis's Instagram feed is just a lot 0:36:30.680 --> 0:36:34.080 of like very like inspirational or like mid, hey are 0:36:34.120 --> 0:36:38.840 you struggling, Like then remember this these five things to 0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:41.640 help you, you know, get through the day, or just like. 0:36:41.600 --> 0:36:44.040 I love very much like Instagram. 0:36:44.160 --> 0:36:47.879 It's great, yeah, and it's just very like healing and 0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:51.799 like I want to help you. And then Jigsaw, his 0:36:51.880 --> 0:36:53.880 whole thing is like he seems to want to help 0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:58.520 people or like show them how to be appreciative, but 0:36:58.600 --> 0:37:02.440 he's doing it in the most violent way possible, and 0:37:02.480 --> 0:37:05.440 I'm like, that's toxic masculinity. You know. 0:37:05.719 --> 0:37:10.520 Literally, he's like he is like I don't see people 0:37:10.600 --> 0:37:16.839 practicing gratitude very much, better kill them, Like it's he ultimately, 0:37:17.120 --> 0:37:20.520 you know, it's we hear at the back at Bechdel 0:37:20.560 --> 0:37:24.400 Cast Industries cannot endorse the actions of one John Kramer, 0:37:24.680 --> 0:37:28.160 Like that is not okay. No, and we want to 0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:30.680 go on the record to say that was not okay 0:37:30.680 --> 0:37:33.480 what John Kramer slash Jigsaw did. But did he look 0:37:33.560 --> 0:37:37.040 good doing it? Kind of indisputably yes, did he sound 0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:37.879 good doing it? 0:37:38.120 --> 0:37:40.120 Oh my gosh, Jigsaw's voice. 0:37:40.280 --> 0:37:43.600 Don't get me started. Do doo dooo do doo dooo 0:37:44.000 --> 0:37:48.560 doo doo dooo. Tobin Bell, who plays Jigsaw. Okay, so 0:37:48.640 --> 0:37:51.960 for a Massachusetts local, as we've learned, I want I 0:37:52.000 --> 0:37:54.440 wanted to confirm. I didn't want I didn't want to 0:37:54.480 --> 0:37:58.400 speak out of turn. It's Weymouth, Weymouth, Massachusetts, Okay, A 0:37:58.440 --> 0:38:03.440 good town, A good town, I think. But he so 0:38:03.520 --> 0:38:06.040 he's like one of the he's like an iconic character 0:38:06.080 --> 0:38:10.600 actor who eventually became best known for being Jigsaw, which 0:38:10.640 --> 0:38:13.520 is incredible. But I'm trying to think of another example 0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:16.440 of this where he like came up with a ton 0:38:16.600 --> 0:38:21.000 of like prestige actors and like he studied like the 0:38:21.040 --> 0:38:24.560 Strasburg method in New York and he's like he's like 0:38:24.800 --> 0:38:29.000 very classically trained. He did Meisner he did all of 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:31.799 the random acting things that I know zero point one 0:38:31.840 --> 0:38:36.000 percent about, But he was like on Broadway. He came 0:38:36.120 --> 0:38:40.759 up with Ellen Burston and Jessica Tandy. He like came 0:38:40.840 --> 0:38:44.080 up with all these kind of legends, did small character 0:38:44.120 --> 0:38:48.000 parts and then didn't pop off until his sixties when 0:38:48.080 --> 0:38:50.920 he began to play the iconic role of Jigsaw. So 0:38:50.960 --> 0:38:53.799 it was a role he was born to play. He's 0:38:53.840 --> 0:38:56.080 a lifetime member of the Actress I just love that 0:38:56.160 --> 0:38:59.520 Jigsaw is a lifetime actor member of the Actress Studio. 0:39:00.200 --> 0:39:03.600 That's like, yeah, and you know what else, That's the 0:39:03.640 --> 0:39:07.520 type of thing that on her Instagram, Viola Davis would 0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:10.880 be like, Hey, if you're worried that, you just like 0:39:10.960 --> 0:39:14.120 haven't quite made it in your career yet. Tobin Bell 0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:18.520 didn't become Jigsaw until he's. 0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:22.920 Sixty two years old. Don't stop dreaming me. Honestly, I 0:39:22.960 --> 0:39:25.040 was thinking about this because I just had my LA 0:39:25.120 --> 0:39:27.600 anniversary and I was like, Oh, what if me seven 0:39:27.680 --> 0:39:29.440 years ago knew what I would be doing now? And 0:39:29.480 --> 0:39:33.120 I'm like, hmmm, I would kind of be on the fence. 0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:37.960 And that's how that's how I think that might be 0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:40.600 the unintentional reaction of like, well, if you work really 0:39:40.640 --> 0:39:42.920 hard for forty years, one day you can be Jigsaw. 0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:44.560 And I think I would be like I might just 0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:45.520 like have a family. 0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:53.040 I don't know, but good to know anyways. Yeah, James Tobo, 0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:54.200 I mean, but why not both? 0:39:54.360 --> 0:39:59.160 He does have a family. Is his name Tobin Bell? Okay, 0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:01.719 I said James Tobin one am? I I don't know 0:40:01.960 --> 0:40:06.600 that James wand mixed with Tobin Bell is what I was. 0:40:06.640 --> 0:40:07.400 What just happened. 0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:13.680 Also, there's a comedian named Tone Bell, yes, who I 0:40:13.800 --> 0:40:16.960 keep wanting to call instead of Tobin Bell. 0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:24.200 Look anyway, So the point is Jigsaw iconic? Yeah, little 0:40:24.280 --> 0:40:26.840 Jigsaw more iconic. 0:40:26.719 --> 0:40:29.400 The puppet you mean who rides a tricycle. 0:40:30.120 --> 0:40:32.960 The way they try to explain the doll, I think 0:40:32.960 --> 0:40:36.600 it's in like Saw three or something, it's a mess. 0:40:36.719 --> 0:40:39.239 I'm just like, just let the Jigsaw doll be a 0:40:39.280 --> 0:40:42.040 doll it's supposed to. He's like, oh, well, I made 0:40:42.040 --> 0:40:44.680 a doll for my son, but then my wife had 0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:48.160 a miscarriage. Because this franchise has serious issues with like 0:40:48.320 --> 0:40:52.200 needing to punish and abuse people suffering from addiction issues, 0:40:52.800 --> 0:40:55.920 that's a big note I have for the Salt Friend cheese. 0:40:57.040 --> 0:40:59.440 But there he's like, yeah, I made this doll for 0:40:59.600 --> 0:41:03.360 my so on, but then my wife had a miscarriage, 0:41:03.960 --> 0:41:06.399 and so now I'm the doll. You're like, oh my god, 0:41:06.400 --> 0:41:12.320 it's Jigsaw. Jigsaw the thing, Okay. I was gonna propose 0:41:12.400 --> 0:41:13.400 the Jigsaw. 0:41:13.000 --> 0:41:17.360 Test, Oh yeah, please, and it states if Jigsaw a 0:41:17.480 --> 0:41:20.920 fears un screen, he's gonna want to play a little 0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:25.880 game and it's gonna be a little sick and twisted. 0:41:26.440 --> 0:41:29.560 I mean, every Saw movie passes this test. 0:41:29.719 --> 0:41:34.560 Every Saw movie passes this test, and I hope that 0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:36.960 it stays that way. I don't want that's you know, 0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:41.120 some things need subversion that I don't think. 0:41:41.160 --> 0:41:42.919 So yeah, I don't want to see the movie where 0:41:43.000 --> 0:41:46.440 Jigsaw goes to therapy and learns that he should stop 0:41:46.600 --> 0:41:47.800 playing games. 0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:50.279 I do feel like the Saw franchise was ahead of 0:41:50.280 --> 0:41:52.560 its time in many ways, because I feel like right 0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:55.920 now we were talking about it with the Halloween franchise, 0:41:55.960 --> 0:41:57.640 where they're in this process of and I know some 0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:00.239 people like it, so people don't. I'm ambivalent towards it, 0:42:00.920 --> 0:42:06.320 but like, you know, examining post traumatic stress for horror 0:42:06.320 --> 0:42:10.160 movie characters and like introducing the idea of trauma into 0:42:10.160 --> 0:42:14.080 horror that like didn't exist in the original franchise as much, 0:42:14.880 --> 0:42:18.239 but I feel like Saw that's canonical Saw Too. You 0:42:18.280 --> 0:42:21.879 find out the source of Jigsaw's pain, you find out 0:42:21.920 --> 0:42:24.759 that he like, I mean, don't get me started. What 0:42:24.800 --> 0:42:26.239 happened to Jigsaw. 0:42:26.600 --> 0:42:29.880 See I don't remember. Despite having seen many of the Saws, 0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:34.279 I don't remember. The only thing I remember about Saw 0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:37.120 Too is that there's like a bunch of people who 0:42:37.160 --> 0:42:41.680 are trying to escape different scenarios and they're like, we 0:42:41.680 --> 0:42:43.600 were brought together for a reason, and it's like kind 0:42:43.600 --> 0:42:45.480 of them trying to figure it out. But beyond that, it. 0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:48.800 Has to do with corrupt cops. It Saw Too, okay, 0:42:49.040 --> 0:42:51.560 but the approach I need I didn't rewatch Saw Too, 0:42:51.600 --> 0:42:53.799 So I hope I'm not mischaracterizing it because I had 0:42:53.800 --> 0:42:56.440 to reread the I haven't seen Saw Too easily in 0:42:56.520 --> 0:43:00.920 ten years. But the premise of it, it is that 0:43:02.000 --> 0:43:06.640 Jigsaw again. I'm just like, it's convoluted. He's gonna play 0:43:06.640 --> 0:43:10.960 a little game. He's gonna So there's all these people 0:43:10.960 --> 0:43:13.359 trapped in a house that's slowly filling with gas. They 0:43:13.400 --> 0:43:17.239 seem to have nothing in common. Detective Donni Wahlberg's on 0:43:17.280 --> 0:43:20.080 the case and Donnie Wahlberg's son is in the house. 0:43:20.640 --> 0:43:24.800 Turns out Donnie Wahlberg is a corrupt cop. The house 0:43:25.080 --> 0:43:28.200 is full of people that he is knowingly and wrongfully 0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:33.760 framed for crimes who have since been incarcerated. An interesting premise. 0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:37.480 Why does Jigsaw feel comfortable furthering the torture of these 0:43:37.480 --> 0:43:41.440 innocent people by filling a house with gas? Look, his 0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:44.799 methods are convoluted. It's a sick, twisted game. And do 0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:48.400 most of the people who have already wrongly served time 0:43:48.520 --> 0:43:53.239 in prison die in the house? They do? But there 0:43:53.280 --> 0:43:56.839 was an idea there. It was like, what I was saying, 0:43:56.920 --> 0:44:02.120 is the soffranchise attempted to comment on corrupt cops at 0:44:02.160 --> 0:44:05.120 several times? Now was it done successfully? And the case 0:44:05.160 --> 0:44:07.960 was Saw too absolutely not. Didn't really make a lot 0:44:08.000 --> 0:44:12.520 of sense. But they reveal Jigsaw's backstory and Saw two 0:44:12.640 --> 0:44:14.239 and sort of at the end of Saw one because 0:44:14.239 --> 0:44:17.520 they're like, he was a patient of Carrie Elwis and 0:44:17.640 --> 0:44:22.120 he had an inoperable tumor, so that's his whole thing. 0:44:22.800 --> 0:44:25.440 But there's a whole convoluted story that happens with his 0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:29.040 wife and a miscarriage and his marriage falls apart, and 0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:34.640 they all blame it on one recovering addict, who then 0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:37.000 Jigsaw later kills in a very brutal way. But that's 0:44:37.160 --> 0:44:41.280 Jigsaw's way. He finds, like, I didn't remember this one. 0:44:41.360 --> 0:44:45.480 There's a whole saw dedicated to letting a father exact 0:44:45.520 --> 0:44:49.799 revenge on the drunk driver and the judge and the 0:44:50.280 --> 0:44:52.719 lawyer and jury because his son died in a drunk 0:44:52.800 --> 0:44:57.000 driving accident. And it's just like Jigsaw's like, go nuts 0:44:57.600 --> 0:45:01.520 kill the cop killed, the judge killed the driver. Like yeah, 0:45:01.560 --> 0:45:08.279 so that's focused, okay, Jigsaw's whole thing. 0:45:08.960 --> 0:45:11.840 We've been recording for thirty nine minutes. 0:45:12.520 --> 0:45:21.560 Jigsaw also commentary on American healthcare. For some reason, Jigsaw 0:45:22.000 --> 0:45:26.400 has a bad doctor who like gives him a like 0:45:26.680 --> 0:45:29.400 doesn't I forget if it's if they either catch a 0:45:29.400 --> 0:45:32.239 tumor too late or they tell him a tumor is 0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:36.680 inoperable when it is not. Either way, it's like a 0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:42.440 negligent doctor situation that Jigsaws found himself in. So he 0:45:42.880 --> 0:45:46.040 believes he has an inoperable tumor, his marriage has fallen 0:45:46.120 --> 0:45:48.920 to shit, and he attempts to take his own life 0:45:49.000 --> 0:45:53.560 by driving off a cliff. He lives, and then he 0:45:53.680 --> 0:45:58.440 has a realization, which is that he's Jigsaw, and so 0:45:58.520 --> 0:46:00.520 he So I think that for the most part, he 0:46:00.600 --> 0:46:04.080 spends the rest of his life, which I believe ends 0:46:04.360 --> 0:46:09.000 in Saw three. And I remember there's a scene where Amanda, 0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:11.600 who's in the first movie, I believe she has she 0:46:11.640 --> 0:46:14.800 has to do like brain surgery on him or something. Anyways, 0:46:14.840 --> 0:46:18.280 he dies, but he spends the rest of his life 0:46:18.520 --> 0:46:23.520 being like, people are so ungrateful and yeah, I'm God 0:46:25.280 --> 0:46:26.440 and that's male privilege. 0:46:26.640 --> 0:46:27.200 Yeah. 0:46:27.239 --> 0:46:31.640 Anyways, that's Jigsaw's deal, not that it really becomes relevant 0:46:31.760 --> 0:46:34.520 during Saw one until the very end. Wait, we should 0:46:34.520 --> 0:46:50.240 recap the movie. Yeah, let's do that, jig Saw JIGSA. 0:46:51.080 --> 0:46:54.520 Okay, So this is the recap for Saw one from 0:46:54.560 --> 0:46:59.120 two thousand and four. We open on a guy waking Also, 0:46:59.160 --> 0:47:02.840 this is one of the longest recaps I've ever written. 0:47:02.960 --> 0:47:06.240 I tried to condense it. I just but like, there's 0:47:06.280 --> 0:47:09.040 just so much and there and most of the movie 0:47:09.320 --> 0:47:13.000 happens in one room, and yet so much happens. 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:15.160 Yeah, it's genius. Anyway. 0:47:15.760 --> 0:47:17.960 Okay, So we open on a guy waking up in 0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:20.719 a bathtub full of water, in a dark room. He 0:47:20.760 --> 0:47:23.319 doesn't know where he is or what's going on. He's 0:47:23.440 --> 0:47:26.720 very freaked out. Yeah, he hears a voice, the lights 0:47:26.760 --> 0:47:32.360 come on. It's Carrie ill when McGregor, I. 0:47:32.360 --> 0:47:35.440 Love that you. I forgot that. You also can't say it. 0:47:35.760 --> 0:47:38.400 I yes, I can say you and McGregor, I cannot 0:47:38.400 --> 0:47:40.359 say Carrie Coloss. 0:47:41.040 --> 0:47:43.279 I had a physical response to hearing you say that 0:47:43.360 --> 0:47:47.840 man's name correctly because I just know I can't do it. 0:47:47.840 --> 0:47:51.360 It's just you wining'. It just happened again. Like my 0:47:51.440 --> 0:47:54.440 stomach turns. I had just have like a physical response, 0:47:54.719 --> 0:47:58.000 even like looking at his name makes me just nervous. 0:48:01.040 --> 0:48:09.640 Okay, So so Scaryl els els elbows ls ls. I'm 0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:15.040 not sure. Okay. So there are two men in a room. 0:48:15.120 --> 0:48:18.879 It's a disgusting, dilapidated bathroom. Both of the men are 0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:22.640 chained to the wall or to something pipes by their 0:48:22.760 --> 0:48:25.800 one of their feet. They also see a dead body 0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:28.279 lying in a pool of blood in the middle of 0:48:28.320 --> 0:48:28.800 the floor. 0:48:29.040 --> 0:48:31.000 We don't think about this. We don't think about this 0:48:31.120 --> 0:48:32.760 for hours. 0:48:33.040 --> 0:48:35.960 We know it's there, but yes we don't. It's in 0:48:36.000 --> 0:48:38.880 our periphery, but not in our main line of sight. 0:48:39.239 --> 0:48:40.320 For most of the movie. 0:48:40.440 --> 0:48:44.920 Oh, Henry couldn't come up with this twist. It's the 0:48:44.960 --> 0:48:47.359 greatest twist it is. 0:48:47.440 --> 0:48:48.759 I don't disagree. 0:48:49.360 --> 0:48:49.760 Okay. 0:48:50.400 --> 0:48:54.200 In one hand, the dead man is holding a gun 0:48:54.719 --> 0:48:57.680 and he seems to have shot himself in the head, 0:48:57.840 --> 0:48:59.680 hence the large pool of blood. 0:49:00.000 --> 0:49:03.200 He appears to have lost Jigsaw's game exactly. 0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:03.719 Yes. 0:49:04.000 --> 0:49:04.320 Yeah. 0:49:04.520 --> 0:49:08.480 In the other hand, he is holding a tape player. Now, 0:49:08.880 --> 0:49:11.880 Carrie Illas. 0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:14.040 I think we should always refer to him as his 0:49:14.600 --> 0:49:17.000 as his full name, and I don't want to remember 0:49:17.000 --> 0:49:19.280 what I was, like, what is his character's name, because 0:49:19.320 --> 0:49:23.400 I just keep thinking carry el Wez Well, I'm going in, Adam. 0:49:23.560 --> 0:49:25.279 I do think of the other one as Adam did 0:49:25.320 --> 0:49:27.120 you as you were watching this, where you're just like 0:49:28.280 --> 0:49:32.960 this is is this the is Nathan Fields or Jigsaw? 0:49:33.239 --> 0:49:37.200 It was a passing thought I had, it was I 0:49:37.239 --> 0:49:39.520 could just I was like, fast forward twenty years in 0:49:39.600 --> 0:49:43.359 Nathan Fielder's career. Is he Jigsaw? And let's not rule it. 0:49:43.320 --> 0:49:46.399 Saw movies are just long episodes of Nathan for you? 0:49:46.880 --> 0:49:48.279 Is that perhaps. 0:49:48.200 --> 0:49:52.480 Rehearsal Season nine has stunning parallel. This is a clickbait 0:49:52.520 --> 0:49:56.439 piece for the future. This is the rehearsal Season nine 0:49:56.520 --> 0:49:59.480 has stunning parallels to Saw three. In this essay, I 0:49:59.520 --> 0:50:03.000 will ugh, I feel like Nathan Fielder. He doesn't have 0:50:03.080 --> 0:50:09.920 Jigsaw energy, but no Jigsaw methods. It could get anyways. 0:50:10.320 --> 0:50:16.960 Okay, so Carrie you Wills is like, I'm doctor Lawrence Gordon, 0:50:17.400 --> 0:50:21.560 I'm a surgeon, and the other guy is like, I'm 0:50:21.800 --> 0:50:26.120 Adam and he is played by Lee Wannel Wannell. 0:50:26.760 --> 0:50:31.160 Le Wannell Sure, I'm just I'm going Wannel. 0:50:30.560 --> 0:50:34.960 To me wrote the screenplay and co created the story 0:50:35.120 --> 0:50:40.080 with James Wan Anyway, Lawrence and Adam introduce themselves, yes, 0:50:40.120 --> 0:50:42.520 and they try to figure out why they might be there, 0:50:43.080 --> 0:50:46.880 who their captor is, and what they want from Lawrence 0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:51.120 and Adam. They then discover envelopes that were placed in 0:50:51.160 --> 0:50:56.280 their pockets. Adam's envelope has a tape, Lawrence's has a tape, 0:50:56.480 --> 0:51:00.480 a bullet, and a key. They try to un their 0:51:00.560 --> 0:51:03.839 chains with the key, but it doesn't work, so then 0:51:03.960 --> 0:51:06.360 they get the tape player in the dead guy's hand. 0:51:06.960 --> 0:51:10.760 Adam plays his tape first, and it's a creepy voice 0:51:10.800 --> 0:51:18.200 who we will learn belongs to Jigsaw. I like how 0:51:18.239 --> 0:51:22.040 every time I refer to the voice, you start humming 0:51:22.200 --> 0:51:26.640 the theme song as if it's the voice, which. 0:51:26.760 --> 0:51:31.720 Which it famously is. Not that I I want a Jigsa. 0:51:31.760 --> 0:51:36.200 I'm unfortunately on eBay as we speak. I'm paying attention, 0:51:36.719 --> 0:51:38.960 but I'm also shopping for a Jigsaw doll there. 0:51:39.040 --> 0:51:41.960 Oh yeah, of course. Well, hey, it's your birthday coming up. 0:51:42.120 --> 0:51:49.160 Maybe hold off on buying your soul. I almost I've 0:51:49.680 --> 0:51:52.200 bought you a Jigsaw doll yet. 0:51:54.600 --> 0:51:57.160 Please bring it to my birthday party at medieval times. 0:51:57.400 --> 0:51:59.880 Bring a Jigsa do to Medieval Times. I feel like 0:52:00.200 --> 0:52:02.360 it would be a hit. I almost bought adult earlier 0:52:02.400 --> 0:52:03.920 this year when I was working, when I was in 0:52:03.920 --> 0:52:08.200 the trenches on my my with my female Jigsaw character. Yeah, 0:52:08.239 --> 0:52:11.480 and I almost bought something off of Etsy called Baby Jigsaw, 0:52:11.680 --> 0:52:14.840 but then I decided too scary didn't buy it. 0:52:15.960 --> 0:52:19.400 Oh my god, I think it's time to design some 0:52:19.520 --> 0:52:23.480 new merch similar to the queer icon baby Grinch. 0:52:23.600 --> 0:52:27.040 Baby Jigsaw's so funny. I feel like in the same 0:52:27.080 --> 0:52:31.200 way you're like, baby Grew is not gonna work, but 0:52:31.239 --> 0:52:34.759 it works better than Adult Grew. Baby Jigsaw, I don't know, 0:52:35.000 --> 0:52:37.879 could work better than it would? You know it would. 0:52:37.960 --> 0:52:40.759 It would kind of fuck with Cannon, but give me 0:52:40.800 --> 0:52:46.040 a chance, James wand let me write the baby jigsaws. 0:52:46.640 --> 0:52:48.759 I guess that's kind of chucky adjacent, but I'm okay 0:52:48.800 --> 0:52:53.840 with that. Yeah, hmm, all right, sorry to what's happening. 0:52:54.640 --> 0:52:56.880 So the creepy voice on the tape player is saying 0:52:56.960 --> 0:53:01.160 to Adam, basically, you're a pathetically loser and you've done 0:53:01.239 --> 0:53:04.879 nothing with your life and maybe you'll die today. Now, 0:53:04.960 --> 0:53:09.040 Lawrence's tape is the harsh, really harsh. 0:53:09.360 --> 0:53:11.000 That's classic Jigsaw. 0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:14.680 You know, it's it's it's tough but fair. 0:53:15.360 --> 0:53:17.880 He's a fair he's a he's a vengeful god, but 0:53:18.000 --> 0:53:21.560 but you know he's a fair god. Okay. 0:53:21.560 --> 0:53:24.759 So Lawrence's tape is the voice saying, you have to 0:53:24.840 --> 0:53:28.000 kill Adam, and you have until six o'clock to do it, 0:53:28.320 --> 0:53:32.680 and if you don't do it, Alison and Diana will die. 0:53:33.160 --> 0:53:37.520 So we are already in we're damseling the whole family. 0:53:38.120 --> 0:53:41.200 There is a version of that later on, but for 0:53:41.280 --> 0:53:46.880 the majority, we've we've doubled damseled the Elwhiz ladies. 0:53:47.960 --> 0:53:52.719 Correct, Yes, So it says that, and then Jigsaw is like, 0:53:52.800 --> 0:53:57.719 by the way X marks the spot for treasure, Let 0:53:57.840 --> 0:53:59.520 the game be gin. 0:54:00.400 --> 0:54:03.560 What is he talking about? Whoa? And then I love 0:54:03.600 --> 0:54:04.000 this guy? 0:54:05.440 --> 0:54:09.720 And then in a whisper, he says, follow your heart, 0:54:10.200 --> 0:54:12.280 and then they notice a heart. 0:54:12.480 --> 0:54:13.399 My mom says that. 0:54:14.920 --> 0:54:19.000 They notice a heart drawn on the toilet next to Adam, 0:54:19.040 --> 0:54:24.239 and inside the tank are two handsaws which they used 0:54:24.280 --> 0:54:27.800 to try to saw through their chains, but the chains 0:54:27.880 --> 0:54:33.879 are way too thick and strong. And then Lawrence realizes 0:54:34.320 --> 0:54:38.600 their captor doesn't want them to cut through the chains, 0:54:39.000 --> 0:54:41.560 he wants them to cut through their feet. 0:54:42.960 --> 0:54:46.759 Awesome. What was that horrible James Franco movie where he 0:54:46.800 --> 0:54:48.279 had to do the same thing and it was like, 0:54:49.200 --> 0:54:51.759 nice try, Oh that was based on a true story. 0:54:51.760 --> 0:54:52.920 I think someone really had to do that. 0:54:53.120 --> 0:54:56.360 Yeah, that is definitely a true story. Correct. 0:54:56.800 --> 0:55:00.359 If I had to cut my own limb off m hm, 0:55:00.760 --> 0:55:03.160 I would take comfort in the fact that. 0:55:03.280 --> 0:55:04.920 It's what Jigsaw would have wanted. 0:55:05.120 --> 0:55:10.439 Jigsaw vibes. I'm channeling Jigsaw right now, But it would 0:55:10.480 --> 0:55:13.480 not it would not be good. Yes, all right, now 0:55:13.480 --> 0:55:15.120 that I've made that insight, will comment. 0:55:15.440 --> 0:55:18.319 Yeah, all due respect to the real life person who 0:55:18.400 --> 0:55:20.720 had to cut off their arm. 0:55:21.040 --> 0:55:23.560 In Yeah, I know, I'm mostly saying I hate James Franco. 0:55:23.719 --> 0:55:26.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, he James Franco should cut 0:55:26.480 --> 0:55:32.760 off every appendage on his body. Got his ass, Yeah, okay, 0:55:32.920 --> 0:55:36.120 he should cut off too, exactly. 0:55:36.960 --> 0:55:38.120 All right, So. 0:55:38.160 --> 0:55:42.879 Lawrence starts to realize, he starts to you know, kind 0:55:42.880 --> 0:55:48.160 of suspect who might be behind this. We flash back 0:55:48.280 --> 0:55:54.280 to various crime scenes where a few detectives, including Detective 0:55:54.320 --> 0:55:58.879 Tap played by Danny Glover and Detective Sing played by 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:04.240 Ken Lang, they find the victims of the Jigsaw Killer. 0:56:04.840 --> 0:56:07.680 And this killer's whole thing is that he wants to 0:56:07.719 --> 0:56:11.920 punish his victims for something they did, some vice they 0:56:11.960 --> 0:56:15.360 have or something, and he will. 0:56:15.239 --> 0:56:19.600 Bigsaw loves to punish people struggling with addiction. It's one 0:56:19.600 --> 0:56:21.600 of my least favorite things about Jigsaw. 0:56:22.000 --> 0:56:26.719 Yeah, he's got some work to do. Yeah, So what 0:56:26.840 --> 0:56:33.040 Jigsaw will do is devise an elaborate and horrific escape 0:56:33.160 --> 0:56:35.040 room like scenario. 0:56:35.280 --> 0:56:37.880 They forgot iconic and iconic. 0:56:39.120 --> 0:56:42.560 He basically builds little escape rooms and he puts his 0:56:42.640 --> 0:56:47.000 victims in them, and they are usually unable to escape 0:56:47.080 --> 0:56:49.880 and they end up doing something to kill themselves in 0:56:49.920 --> 0:56:53.520 the process because they have to climb through razor wire 0:56:53.719 --> 0:56:57.080 or they accidentally light themselves on fire stuff like that. 0:56:57.120 --> 0:56:59.960 I feel like he kind of I wonder how inspired 0:57:00.080 --> 0:57:03.560 that was by like Charles Manson kind of stuff of, like, well, 0:57:03.640 --> 0:57:06.680 I didn't do the how can you prosecute me for 0:57:06.760 --> 0:57:09.640 being a killer? I didn't do it myself? When it's 0:57:09.680 --> 0:57:13.840 like no Jigsaw, no, no Jigsaw, you are a killer? 0:57:14.480 --> 0:57:17.160 Do you remember at some point? Well, I guess you weren't. 0:57:17.160 --> 0:57:20.920 I was, embarrassingly back in the day a big Gilmore 0:57:20.960 --> 0:57:24.520 Girls fan, and I think it's Saw four where Luke 0:57:24.640 --> 0:57:29.400 from Gilmore Girls enters the Saw universe and you're just like, what, Yeah, 0:57:29.440 --> 0:57:32.600 he they really rough him up? They you thought you 0:57:32.600 --> 0:57:35.479 thought they roughed up his heart on Gilmore Girls. Well, 0:57:38.440 --> 0:57:40.400 all I'll say is, if you were team Christopher on 0:57:40.440 --> 0:57:43.760 Gilmore Girls, you were loving Saw four or five and 0:57:43.960 --> 0:57:47.840 maybe six because they were they were really handing Luke's 0:57:47.880 --> 0:57:50.120 ass back to him. He was like an associate of 0:57:50.160 --> 0:57:53.520 Detective Donnie Wahlberg these movies. Describing these movies does make 0:57:53.600 --> 0:57:59.120 you sound like really disconnected from reality, but they put 0:57:59.160 --> 0:58:02.000 like he was the guy that I also have a 0:58:02.040 --> 0:58:04.760 list of like best Saw kills, and it was kind 0:58:04.760 --> 0:58:08.520 of refreshing my memory a little bit. He was this guy, 0:58:08.920 --> 0:58:10.840 the guy that they put the cue the cube on 0:58:10.880 --> 0:58:12.479 his head? Do you remember cube head? 0:58:12.760 --> 0:58:14.280 Was that from Saw two? 0:58:15.280 --> 0:58:16.960 No, I think it's from like four. 0:58:17.040 --> 0:58:20.600 Oh then, But they all really blend together. 0:58:20.680 --> 0:58:20.960 For me. 0:58:21.440 --> 0:58:23.600 It's it's funny because you can see his like bad 0:58:23.600 --> 0:58:28.000 hair plugs even in this like grainy shot. I also 0:58:28.040 --> 0:58:30.800 feel like embraced Balding Luke. Right. 0:58:31.360 --> 0:58:33.240 Here's the thought that I just had, which is that 0:58:34.400 --> 0:58:36.240 I feel like a lot of what they do on 0:58:36.520 --> 0:58:42.680 Jackass is not unlike what Jigsaw does to his victims, 0:58:42.680 --> 0:58:45.640 because well I didn't see the Jackass movie, but I 0:58:45.720 --> 0:58:48.680 just remember, like I saw the trailer a million times, 0:58:49.160 --> 0:58:52.880 and there's like a scenario where they like poor honey 0:58:52.960 --> 0:58:54.960 on a guy, strap him to a chair and then 0:58:55.120 --> 0:58:57.640 put a grizzly bear in the room with him. Or 0:58:57.720 --> 0:59:01.080 there's a part where like the puts a box around 0:59:01.080 --> 0:59:04.240 someone's head and then they put a tarantula in a 0:59:04.320 --> 0:59:06.400 tube getting toward it. So I'm just like, this is 0:59:06.480 --> 0:59:07.760 Jigsaw stuff. 0:59:08.000 --> 0:59:11.320 The new Jackass movie was I thought pretty fun, and 0:59:11.560 --> 0:59:15.760 also it now the parallels are are kind of blowing 0:59:15.800 --> 0:59:19.240 my mind because I later had sex with a guy 0:59:19.800 --> 0:59:23.360 as an adult in Boston, who made me watch two 0:59:23.520 --> 0:59:25.720 Jackass movies before he would kiss me on the map. 0:59:26.080 --> 0:59:29.439 Whoa do you remember and then bleep that out. 0:59:29.760 --> 0:59:31.520 I don't remember this person though. 0:59:31.440 --> 0:59:35.480 Oh well, he uh did improv and he didn't have 0:59:35.640 --> 0:59:41.440 a bed frame and I watched two Jackass movies with him. 0:59:41.480 --> 0:59:44.120 He had he had also like not, I mean what, 0:59:44.600 --> 0:59:47.919 we were all broke, but there's different ways to be, 0:59:48.000 --> 0:59:51.320 you know whatever. He was a real. He was a 0:59:51.320 --> 0:59:55.520 real I think classic maybe w Yeah, because his he'd 0:59:55.840 --> 0:59:58.880 in lieu of a TV stand, he had a stack 0:59:59.000 --> 1:00:04.520 of JFK conspiracy books. Anyways, absolutely was in love with 1:00:04.600 --> 1:00:07.760 him for some reason. Nice. Oh. The last thing I 1:00:07.760 --> 1:00:10.120 was gonna say was I feel like, on one side 1:00:10.200 --> 1:00:14.640 of Saw adjacent you have Jackass, which predated Saw, and 1:00:14.680 --> 1:00:18.120 I wonder if you would imagine that the writers at 1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:19.919 some point would have to go to the Jackass well 1:00:19.960 --> 1:00:23.720 for inspiration. And then on the other side, I think 1:00:23.760 --> 1:00:28.640 you have kind of the because I mean, correctly probably 1:00:29.760 --> 1:00:33.600 Saw was criticized in its time for being torture porn. 1:00:34.480 --> 1:00:38.880 Now this is this is a good point, but I 1:00:38.920 --> 1:00:41.600 think that the success of this movie, because this movie 1:00:41.640 --> 1:00:46.040 made its budget back one hundred times. Yeah, So fucking wild. 1:00:46.480 --> 1:00:49.760 But it influenced a lot of other horror franchises that 1:00:49.840 --> 1:00:53.240 I think like leaned into the torture porn with no 1:00:53.320 --> 1:00:56.800 attempted commentary. And I'm thinking of the Saw franchise. 1:00:56.920 --> 1:01:01.280 Yeah, same, Yeah, I know it. I was reading The 1:01:01.880 --> 1:01:05.439 Wan and Wannell, So what I'm gonna call them? 1:01:05.600 --> 1:01:07.920 The boys, the best Friends, the W's. 1:01:08.600 --> 1:01:13.240 They drew inspiration from seven, which is one of my 1:01:13.360 --> 1:01:14.760 favorite thrillers. 1:01:14.960 --> 1:01:17.560 Is that What's in the Box? Yeah? What was it? 1:01:17.600 --> 1:01:18.440 What was in the box? 1:01:19.000 --> 1:01:20.360 I'm not gonna spoil it. 1:01:20.720 --> 1:01:25.480 Oh okay, that's really funny. There's like a ton of 1:01:25.520 --> 1:01:26.360 listeners that were. 1:01:26.240 --> 1:01:33.520 Like, no, okay. So we learn about Jigsaw's m O. Yeah, 1:01:33.520 --> 1:01:40.640 we get another flashback of doctor Lawrence talking to med students, 1:01:40.680 --> 1:01:45.400 maybe about a patient who has terminal cancer and yeah, 1:01:45.440 --> 1:01:46.920 like an inoperable tumor. 1:01:47.160 --> 1:01:50.200 Put a pin in that. Yes, it turns out he's 1:01:50.280 --> 1:01:54.640 the problem. He too busy cheating on his wife to 1:01:54.680 --> 1:01:56.600 give Jigsaw a correct diagnosis. 1:01:58.000 --> 1:02:02.080 And then we also meet very briefly, an orderly named 1:02:02.400 --> 1:02:05.880 Zepp good name, who comes in and he's like that 1:02:06.040 --> 1:02:11.120 patient you're talking about. Actually his name is John, and 1:02:11.200 --> 1:02:14.760 he's very interesting and when you're watching the movie, you 1:02:14.800 --> 1:02:17.640 don't think much of it as you're watching it, but then. 1:02:17.480 --> 1:02:21.960 When watching it, you're like, yeah, I would say John 1:02:22.080 --> 1:02:25.120 is a little interesting. I guess I would say that 1:02:25.720 --> 1:02:26.800 because he's Jigsaw. 1:02:28.560 --> 1:02:34.600 Yeah. So then detectives tap and sing question Lawrence because 1:02:34.640 --> 1:02:38.320 he's a suspect in the Jigsaw case because his pen 1:02:38.440 --> 1:02:40.600 light was found at the scene of one of the 1:02:40.640 --> 1:02:45.520 crimes at one of the escape rooms. But Lawrence has 1:02:45.640 --> 1:02:48.640 an alibi that checks out, and it's implied that he 1:02:48.720 --> 1:02:49.680 is having an affair. 1:02:50.040 --> 1:02:53.840 Yeah, but he's deeply ashamed of the affair. Yeah, and 1:02:54.400 --> 1:02:57.040 that's a whole thing for him. 1:02:57.400 --> 1:03:01.160 Lawrence is then asked to listen into the testimony of 1:03:01.240 --> 1:03:06.760 one of Jigsaw's only victim to ever escape, a woman 1:03:06.840 --> 1:03:08.560 named Amanda, who. 1:03:08.520 --> 1:03:10.360 Turns out to be his associate. 1:03:10.640 --> 1:03:13.760 Uh what, I don't remember that. Oh my gosh. 1:03:13.760 --> 1:03:16.080 Amanda's in a bunch of them because she ends up 1:03:16.120 --> 1:03:19.520 because you know how, she's like, Jigsaw helped me, and 1:03:19.560 --> 1:03:22.480 then she like kind of becomes his sidekick for several 1:03:22.520 --> 1:03:23.920 I think up until his death. 1:03:24.280 --> 1:03:26.400 Okay, I do kind of remember that, and. 1:03:26.320 --> 1:03:28.680 Then I don't know, I don't remember. Assuming she dies 1:03:28.720 --> 1:03:32.120 at some point Buck because she's in Saw movies. 1:03:32.720 --> 1:03:34.280 Right, Everybody dies. 1:03:34.280 --> 1:03:36.400 Yeah, I mean yeah, every whether you're in a Saw 1:03:36.480 --> 1:03:39.120 movie or not. Guess what, you're gonna die. Someday you're 1:03:39.240 --> 1:03:42.120 gonna die, just hopefully not in a Oh I was 1:03:42.120 --> 1:03:44.160 thinking of this one. I don't remember what Saw movie 1:03:44.200 --> 1:03:46.840 it was. Do you remember the pile of syringes, the 1:03:46.920 --> 1:03:50.840 syringe like kind of yeah, someone had to crawl through 1:03:50.840 --> 1:03:54.880 the syringe Like, ooh, baby, that was not that was 1:03:55.560 --> 1:03:58.439 that was unfortunate. Yeah, sure thing. 1:03:59.600 --> 1:04:04.120 This is also when we see the little Jigsaw puppet 1:04:04.160 --> 1:04:07.200 guy who comes pedaling into the room on a tricycle 1:04:07.680 --> 1:04:08.320 and we're. 1:04:08.120 --> 1:04:14.680 Like, we're like, yeah, we're standing, we're cheering. Yeah. 1:04:14.840 --> 1:04:17.200 We cut back to the present with Lawrence and Adam 1:04:17.240 --> 1:04:20.520 in the room. They figure out that there's a camera 1:04:20.640 --> 1:04:24.440 in the room and that they're being watched, presumably by Jigsaw. 1:04:25.560 --> 1:04:29.360 Adam finds a polaroid of Lawrence's family who have been 1:04:29.440 --> 1:04:32.400 like kidnapped and tied up, and there's an X written 1:04:32.440 --> 1:04:35.560 on the back of it, but Adam doesn't show this 1:04:35.760 --> 1:04:39.800 to Lawrence right away. Then we get another flashback with 1:04:39.960 --> 1:04:43.440 Lawrence and his daughter. She's talking about a scary man 1:04:43.480 --> 1:04:46.520 that's in her room. Lawrence comforts her and puts her 1:04:46.560 --> 1:04:47.880 to bed, And there's I. 1:04:47.960 --> 1:04:50.400 The only one that felt that. I felt that I 1:04:50.480 --> 1:04:53.360 was I didn't look this up, but Carrie el Wes 1:04:53.560 --> 1:04:59.040 is parenting I found to be patronizing and creepy. He's like, 1:04:59.280 --> 1:05:03.080 what do you mean I would never abandon you and 1:05:03.200 --> 1:05:06.800 your mom? And I was like, Okay, this girl's she's 1:05:06.840 --> 1:05:08.360 too old to be spoken to like that. 1:05:09.600 --> 1:05:12.320 I wasn't sure if you could like chalk that up 1:05:12.440 --> 1:05:15.760 to just like his poorly written character or Carrie Elle, 1:05:15.840 --> 1:05:17.680 was this really bad acting. 1:05:17.640 --> 1:05:20.400 Or genuinely, I mean his character and this is giving 1:05:20.480 --> 1:05:22.320 him too much crep but like his character is full 1:05:22.360 --> 1:05:24.120 of shit, So maybe he's like, I should sound like 1:05:24.120 --> 1:05:26.040 I'm kind of lying because it sounds like he kind 1:05:26.040 --> 1:05:29.760 of maybe could bail on his family, like he doesn't 1:05:30.000 --> 1:05:32.200 care about them as much as he should. Although I'll 1:05:32.200 --> 1:05:34.960 say my least favorite actor in the movie in like 1:05:35.040 --> 1:05:38.200 this scene specifically, but there's a few scenes where the 1:05:38.480 --> 1:05:41.960 woman what is because I don't want to spend the 1:05:42.000 --> 1:05:45.760 whole time saying his wife what is his wife's name? Alice? 1:05:45.760 --> 1:05:46.240 Allison? 1:05:46.360 --> 1:05:48.840 Alison. Yeah, So the first scene, Alison is in. I 1:05:48.880 --> 1:05:53.560 don't know what was going on there, but she that 1:05:53.720 --> 1:05:56.320 acting was what was going on there. She was like, 1:05:57.720 --> 1:06:00.720 she was like Carrie el was, you can't this is bullshit. 1:06:00.880 --> 1:06:04.560 I can't believe that you are You're you're messing around 1:06:04.560 --> 1:06:07.520 on me. Like it was just like total dead fish's 1:06:07.680 --> 1:06:10.240 energy that she was bringing to the role. Her perform 1:06:11.000 --> 1:06:12.720 it gets kind of good once she gets a gun, 1:06:13.280 --> 1:06:14.880 she kind of kind of wakes up. I agree, I 1:06:14.920 --> 1:06:16.000 thought she was good in those scenes. 1:06:16.240 --> 1:06:19.080 But earlier, Yeah, there's a scene where she's like, don't 1:06:19.160 --> 1:06:21.960 stand there and try to convince me that you're happy. 1:06:22.720 --> 1:06:24.640 Scream at me and tell me you hate me. At 1:06:24.720 --> 1:06:27.320 least then there would be some passion and like that. 1:06:27.440 --> 1:06:31.160 All delivered at the same like that was her delivery also, 1:06:31.240 --> 1:06:34.520 at least then there would be some passion. I'm like, oh, 1:06:35.280 --> 1:06:37.720 I'm like, I'm breaking up with this lady. This is 1:06:37.760 --> 1:06:41.880 not helping there. Also, how did they get Danny Glover 1:06:41.960 --> 1:06:43.640 to be in this movie? And how dare they kill 1:06:43.720 --> 1:06:47.800 him so early? And they're how his character is also 1:06:48.040 --> 1:06:51.920 like bizarre, weird, and at some point they're like, this 1:06:52.040 --> 1:06:54.720 character's kind of like Jigsaw. You don't want to hand 1:06:54.760 --> 1:06:56.760 it to Jigsaw. But Jigsaw is like, this guy's a weirdo, 1:06:56.840 --> 1:07:01.640 and I'm like, oh, no, I kind of agree. He 1:07:02.280 --> 1:07:03.320 is acting a bit weird. 1:07:03.480 --> 1:07:07.960 He yeah, it's very cartoonish. Yeah, okay. So we're in 1:07:07.960 --> 1:07:11.160 this flashback where we see Lawrence interacting with his family. 1:07:11.600 --> 1:07:16.920 We see him and his wife Alison have an argument. 1:07:17.440 --> 1:07:20.040 Their marriage seems to be very tense. It seems like 1:07:20.120 --> 1:07:25.680 she suspects him of cheating and storms out, and she's right, 1:07:26.320 --> 1:07:30.440 he storms out. Then a scary man who is hiding 1:07:30.600 --> 1:07:35.840 in the little girl's closet abducts Lawrence's wife and daughter, 1:07:36.400 --> 1:07:38.800 torments them a bit, and then we see that it's 1:07:39.080 --> 1:07:43.040 Zep that orderly from the hospital, So we are thinking, okay, 1:07:43.240 --> 1:07:48.320 Zepp is Jigsaw, I guess. Then we flash back to 1:07:48.720 --> 1:07:52.880 Detective Tap studying the video that Jigsaw made and showed 1:07:52.920 --> 1:07:57.400 to Amanda, the woman who had escaped, and Tap discovers 1:07:57.440 --> 1:08:01.480 a clue that leads him and Detective Sing to what 1:08:01.600 --> 1:08:06.920 appears to be Jigsaw's secret layer in an abandoned mannequin factory. 1:08:07.640 --> 1:08:11.840 So that was my I was again iconic iconic, and 1:08:11.920 --> 1:08:15.080 I'm like, oh, he found that a mannequin and then 1:08:15.120 --> 1:08:17.840 made it into the little Jigsaw puppet. That was sort 1:08:17.880 --> 1:08:20.280 of what I was thinking must have happened. 1:08:20.439 --> 1:08:24.000 Which is the easiest explanation, But I don't think that's 1:08:24.040 --> 1:08:25.960 ultimately the one they go with. I think that they're 1:08:26.040 --> 1:08:28.800 just like, no, it had to do with his they made. 1:08:28.840 --> 1:08:31.639 They connected it to like Jigsaw trauma, like he could 1:08:31.640 --> 1:08:35.160 just find a mannequin. It seems like they were all around. Yeah, 1:08:35.200 --> 1:08:37.519 but also the Jigsaw doll, what would that have been 1:08:37.640 --> 1:08:40.880 for at any point a haunted house, Like that's the 1:08:40.880 --> 1:08:41.759 only thing I could think. 1:08:41.640 --> 1:08:45.519 Of, right, because also Jigsaw has this this mask of 1:08:45.560 --> 1:08:49.000 like a pig's face that he puts on to abduct, 1:08:49.479 --> 1:08:52.840 right people, And then there's also the puppet. And then 1:08:52.960 --> 1:08:57.240 Jigsaw also just sometimes wears like a hooded trench coat 1:08:57.360 --> 1:08:57.920 kind of thing. 1:08:58.120 --> 1:08:58.920 Nothing wrong with that. 1:08:59.040 --> 1:09:01.680 He's got a lot of different personas, I guess, is 1:09:01.720 --> 1:09:02.280 what I'm saying. 1:09:02.320 --> 1:09:04.240 Yeah, he's got all the fifth You've got all of looks. 1:09:04.360 --> 1:09:08.680 The fashion My Cursed YouTube video the fashion evolution of Jigsaw. 1:09:09.120 --> 1:09:14.280 There another great sketch. I really love Cursed YouTube. And 1:09:14.560 --> 1:09:17.559 like there's those videos on like I think it's like 1:09:17.560 --> 1:09:20.400 the Vogue channel where they bring in huge celebrities when 1:09:20.400 --> 1:09:22.240 it would be interesting and more interesting if they brought 1:09:22.240 --> 1:09:27.040 in Jigsaw and they're like whatever, Like, Nicole Kidman breaks 1:09:27.080 --> 1:09:31.560 down ten iconic looks from across her career and it's fine. 1:09:31.680 --> 1:09:34.280 But if you brought in Jigsaw, Jigsaw breaks and ten 1:09:34.479 --> 1:09:37.320 iconic looks from his career as a murderer. 1:09:38.200 --> 1:09:41.719 Hang on a second. If we're talking about Nicole Kidman's 1:09:41.840 --> 1:09:44.559 iconic looks, obviously the most iconic one is the one 1:09:44.840 --> 1:09:46.919 that she wears in the AMC theaters. 1:09:47.120 --> 1:09:50.400 Oh you know it commercial, the pinstripe suit with a 1:09:50.400 --> 1:09:52.680 little bit of glitter. And did you see that she 1:09:52.800 --> 1:09:55.040 got picked up for an additional year for that. I'm like, 1:09:55.080 --> 1:09:57.600 what does that even mean? Is that they're gonna be 1:09:57.640 --> 1:10:00.479 an you're shooting another one? I don't know. They just 1:10:00.520 --> 1:10:02.639 need to like license her likeness so they can show 1:10:02.640 --> 1:10:04.400 it forever. I kind of would be like sad if 1:10:04.439 --> 1:10:07.240 there was a new one, I'd be excited, but I 1:10:07.240 --> 1:10:08.479 would miss the old one. 1:10:09.200 --> 1:10:12.760 What if there was a whole franchise AMC one, AMC two, 1:10:12.880 --> 1:10:16.439 AMC three up until AMC six and then AMC three D. 1:10:19.000 --> 1:10:20.679 And then they'll be like, Okay, we had to ease 1:10:20.720 --> 1:10:22.960 off this franchise. This is getting to be a bit much. 1:10:23.680 --> 1:10:29.160 Oh my god, I look, Saw is so fun. Okay, 1:10:29.200 --> 1:10:30.559 so wait, where do we leave off in. 1:10:30.520 --> 1:10:34.519 The story of Saw, Jamie, you've been recording for seventy 1:10:34.560 --> 1:10:35.200 two minutes. 1:10:35.280 --> 1:10:40.040 No, oh no, the clack is too Did I show 1:10:40.040 --> 1:10:42.800 you my picture with Jigsaw? I posted it earlier this year. 1:10:43.400 --> 1:10:46.559 Oh here, you keep talking, I'll send you my Jigsaw picture. 1:10:46.800 --> 1:10:50.320 Okay, thank you so much. Okay, you're welcome. So they 1:10:50.360 --> 1:10:54.200 go to Jigsaw's secret layer. Yeah, there is a man there, 1:10:54.360 --> 1:10:57.960 another one of Jigsaw's victims. He's about to be killed. 1:10:58.280 --> 1:11:02.719 Jigsaw shows up. There's a big where the detectives save 1:11:02.840 --> 1:11:07.640 the victim they're chasing. After Jigsaw, Sing is killed in 1:11:07.680 --> 1:11:13.720 a trap. Jigsaw slits taps throat and ultimately escapes. So 1:11:14.120 --> 1:11:18.280 then we cut back to the present where Tap has survived, 1:11:19.080 --> 1:11:22.960 which is wild because his throat was cut so deep. 1:11:23.040 --> 1:11:26.479 I always kind of forget that because it defies logic 1:11:26.520 --> 1:11:29.800 by so much. Like I was. I mean, don't get 1:11:29.800 --> 1:11:32.519 me wrong, I was happy to see that Danny Glover 1:11:32.680 --> 1:11:34.839 was still in the movie, but it really is against 1:11:35.280 --> 1:11:38.080 all logic that he's still in the movie. 1:11:38.240 --> 1:11:42.000 That injury would almost certainly kill. I'm not a doctor, 1:11:42.280 --> 1:11:48.599 but I really I'm no doctor. Lawrence Gordon played by 1:11:48.720 --> 1:11:50.080 Carrie il Whizz. 1:11:50.040 --> 1:11:53.040 Well good because then you would misdiagnose Jigsaw and then 1:11:53.080 --> 1:11:55.000 you and then you'd be in for a real ride. 1:11:57.560 --> 1:12:02.840 I oh god, Jigsaw, he's so COMPLI he's so complicated. 1:12:03.720 --> 1:12:06.280 Okay, So Tap survives. He now has a big scar 1:12:06.360 --> 1:12:09.320 on his neck and he is now obsessed with this case. 1:12:09.439 --> 1:12:13.080 It has completely consumed him. And this is where the 1:12:13.200 --> 1:12:19.960 character gets very cartoonish and weird, and just some weird 1:12:20.479 --> 1:12:24.240 choices are made there. Okay, so we cut to the 1:12:24.360 --> 1:12:26.960 room again. Lawrence is like, Okay, we need to figure 1:12:27.000 --> 1:12:29.920 out this whole X marks the spot thing, which they 1:12:30.000 --> 1:12:32.920 find by turning off the lights and they see an 1:12:33.160 --> 1:12:35.599 X on the wall and glow in the dark paint. 1:12:36.240 --> 1:12:39.880 Lawrence busts open the wall and finds a box in 1:12:39.920 --> 1:12:43.599 which is a cell phone, a couple of cigarettes, and 1:12:43.640 --> 1:12:47.960 a lighter. Adam is desperate to smoke the cigarette because 1:12:47.960 --> 1:12:51.960 he's stressed, because he's so stressed, but there's also this 1:12:52.040 --> 1:12:58.040 ominous note from Jigsaw for Lawrence about the cigarette and 1:12:58.040 --> 1:13:02.240 how Lawrence could maybe poison Adams with the cigarette and 1:13:02.320 --> 1:13:05.559 the poison that's in the blood and blah blah blah. 1:13:05.800 --> 1:13:08.240 So Lawrence first he tries to make a call. He 1:13:08.320 --> 1:13:10.760 tries to like call nine one one, but turns out 1:13:10.760 --> 1:13:13.799 this phone it's only for incoming calls. So then Lawrence 1:13:13.920 --> 1:13:18.240 hatches a plan to make Jigsaw think that he's poisoning 1:13:18.280 --> 1:13:22.639 the cigarette with the blood from the dead guy. Lawrence 1:13:22.720 --> 1:13:26.759 has Adam play along. He smokes the cigarette, he pretends 1:13:26.840 --> 1:13:27.760 to die, but. 1:13:28.080 --> 1:13:31.759 It's horribly faking job. Yeah, it's like such a bad job. 1:13:31.920 --> 1:13:33.800 I think that he's supposed to be bad at it 1:13:33.840 --> 1:13:35.400 in the movie and I was like, that's a good 1:13:35.400 --> 1:13:37.800 bake death. That was a good bake death. Yeah, he 1:13:37.880 --> 1:13:38.680 really phoned it in. 1:13:39.280 --> 1:13:43.000 You would have thought, though that because Lawrence is a doctor, 1:13:43.120 --> 1:13:46.640 and you would think he would know how long it 1:13:46.680 --> 1:13:50.760 would take for like a poison to take effect. 1:13:50.439 --> 1:13:52.920 And you would he be a good doctor. He's a 1:13:52.960 --> 1:13:58.400 canonically doctor. And meanwhile he and also if anyone's gonna 1:13:58.439 --> 1:14:03.400 know a bad actor, it's Tobin Bell. He studied Meisner. 1:14:06.160 --> 1:14:07.759 As did the character Jackson. 1:14:08.200 --> 1:14:14.360 Bo I wish, wouldn't that be great? I we don't 1:14:14.360 --> 1:14:18.519 have time there yet. Jigsaw is not is not falling 1:14:18.520 --> 1:14:21.160 for it not having it, Yeah. 1:14:20.880 --> 1:14:24.559 He doesn't, and he punishes Adam by electrocuting him via 1:14:24.920 --> 1:14:29.559 the chain, which is also apparently has an electrical current 1:14:29.640 --> 1:14:33.840 going through it. Who knows. So then we get the 1:14:33.840 --> 1:14:37.920 reveal that Adam has been photographing Lawrence and he knows 1:14:37.920 --> 1:14:42.240 who Lawrence is, even though he pretended not to. Then 1:14:42.280 --> 1:14:46.920 the cell phone rings it's Lawrence's daughter and wife, and 1:14:47.200 --> 1:14:51.640 Alison confirms this that Adam knows who Lawrence is, and 1:14:51.680 --> 1:14:54.120 it turns out that Adam had been taking pictures of 1:14:54.200 --> 1:14:57.360 Lawrence's indiscretions the past few nights. 1:14:57.280 --> 1:14:59.559 For Danny Glover question Mark. 1:15:00.320 --> 1:15:01.640 And so I don't know if that's supposed to be 1:15:01.720 --> 1:15:06.480 another red herring where it's like maybe tap, maybe it's Jigsaw. 1:15:07.080 --> 1:15:09.240 I guess I never even thought it. Maybe that is. 1:15:09.400 --> 1:15:11.160 I don't even know. At that point, You're just like, 1:15:11.200 --> 1:15:14.320 I'm just I kind of forget that we're supposed to 1:15:14.320 --> 1:15:16.320 be wondering who Jigsaw is. I'm like, I almost don't care. 1:15:16.439 --> 1:15:18.840 I just I just am like waiting for Karrie el 1:15:18.880 --> 1:15:21.280 West to have his ass handed to him. That was 1:15:21.320 --> 1:15:25.040 another interesting like I do think the swings that the 1:15:25.080 --> 1:15:27.559 Saw franchise takes it trying to say something but never 1:15:27.640 --> 1:15:32.280 quite saying anything is interesting where like, you know, Jigsaw 1:15:32.360 --> 1:15:35.000 is so lawless that it's like he doesn't really have 1:15:35.080 --> 1:15:38.360 a code of ethics other than like practice X games 1:15:38.400 --> 1:15:42.240 gratitude at all times. But like, but I do think 1:15:42.240 --> 1:15:45.439 it's you know, he he Jigsaw does not like cops, 1:15:45.720 --> 1:15:49.639 probably partially because he's wanted. But on that front, Jigsaw 1:15:49.680 --> 1:15:54.679 and I are are a united front. But he does 1:15:54.720 --> 1:15:59.600 not like Danny Glover for being I don't even know 1:16:00.800 --> 1:16:04.000 all cops are corrupt. In this specific case, he's just 1:16:04.040 --> 1:16:06.519 like acting really weird. He's too into it, and you're like, 1:16:06.600 --> 1:16:10.160 why are you like spending possibly your own money. But 1:16:10.200 --> 1:16:14.240 then also like kind of taking on like surveillance and 1:16:14.640 --> 1:16:19.080 like Adam deserves to die because he colluded with the cops. 1:16:19.280 --> 1:16:22.439 But then also you do get from Adam the fact 1:16:22.439 --> 1:16:24.120 that he's like, well, I've been put in this position 1:16:24.160 --> 1:16:27.400 because of a class issue. I don't have any fucking money. 1:16:27.439 --> 1:16:30.759 What am I supposed to do? And then with Carrie Els, 1:16:30.800 --> 1:16:33.400 you have the idea of like shame and like is 1:16:33.439 --> 1:16:36.360 it right to surveil someone against their will even if 1:16:36.400 --> 1:16:39.840 they are doing something fucked up? No, it's always wrong. 1:16:40.360 --> 1:16:43.160 But Carrie el is also not a great guy. Like 1:16:43.280 --> 1:16:46.439 just everyone in the Saw franchise is complex and bad. 1:16:47.280 --> 1:16:50.320 I just think it's good, like it's good, it's simply good. 1:16:50.360 --> 1:16:54.160 They're but they're like they're not. There's no I mean, 1:16:54.200 --> 1:16:56.559 I guess there's It's not that there's no value judgments. 1:16:56.560 --> 1:16:59.800 It's that there's only value judgments. 1:16:59.360 --> 1:17:02.160 And they're mostly coming from Jigsaw. 1:17:01.760 --> 1:17:07.479 And Jigsaw Jigsaw kind of above criticism in Jigsaw's opinion. 1:17:10.000 --> 1:17:13.479 Who's never having to play a little game Jigsaw until 1:17:13.520 --> 1:17:14.599 the until I think Saw three. 1:17:14.640 --> 1:17:18.639 Anyway, I cannot wait to rewatch all of these movies. Okay, 1:17:19.240 --> 1:17:23.360 so we've learned the detective tap Is is no longer 1:17:23.479 --> 1:17:26.479 a cop, first of all, and he's paying Adam to 1:17:26.720 --> 1:17:31.519 surveil Lawrence for reasons. 1:17:30.840 --> 1:17:31.320 For reasons. 1:17:31.479 --> 1:17:36.479 I think tap still thinks that Lawrence is Jigsaw. I 1:17:36.520 --> 1:17:39.719 think so, yes, I think he thinks that the whole time. 1:17:39.920 --> 1:17:43.160 And I mean that is I guess true to shitty 1:17:43.240 --> 1:17:46.760 cop logic of just and that is explored and later 1:17:47.000 --> 1:17:48.960 so wait, this is blowing my eye. That's explored and 1:17:49.000 --> 1:17:52.439 later Saw movies where like Danny Glover has in his 1:17:52.479 --> 1:17:55.120 mind who he thinks did the crime, and he's exhausting 1:17:55.160 --> 1:17:58.479 every possible resource to arrest who he thinks did the 1:17:58.479 --> 1:18:00.840 crime so he can close the case, which happens all 1:18:00.880 --> 1:18:04.400 the time. And then Saw two is all about how 1:18:04.600 --> 1:18:08.280 detective Donnie Wahlberg does the same thing, and it's like 1:18:08.320 --> 1:18:11.560 put people in prison and ruined lives and then unfortunately 1:18:11.640 --> 1:18:14.920 Jigsaw fills the house with gas and they all die. 1:18:15.320 --> 1:18:20.400 So that again, that part was confusing. But Jigsaw does 1:18:20.439 --> 1:18:24.080 not like lazy cops. He does not. 1:18:24.400 --> 1:18:32.240 Yeah, wow, okay, where are we were almost done with 1:18:32.840 --> 1:18:38.519 the recap? Okay, So the clock strikes six, which is 1:18:38.600 --> 1:18:40.880 when Lawrence was supposed to kill Adam. 1:18:40.960 --> 1:18:43.000 By Jigsaw has got an early bedtime. 1:18:43.320 --> 1:18:44.920 He's like, I've got a dinner, He's got to watch 1:18:46.200 --> 1:18:46.760 Two and a half. 1:18:46.720 --> 1:18:48.920 Men is on at eight and I'm not missing it. 1:18:49.320 --> 1:18:53.320 So we gotta wrap, we gotta be done. Yeah. 1:18:54.120 --> 1:18:57.479 So Zepp calls the cell phone and has Alison tell 1:18:57.720 --> 1:19:01.240 Lawrence that he failed since he didn't kill Adam in time. 1:19:02.000 --> 1:19:06.960 But Alison has untied herself and fights back against Zepp 1:19:07.320 --> 1:19:12.680 and there's a struggle. Detective Tap comes in, who had 1:19:12.720 --> 1:19:17.120 been monitoring the whole situation, so he goes over to 1:19:17.120 --> 1:19:21.000 see what's going on. There's a big shootout and Alison 1:19:21.240 --> 1:19:25.400 and Diana have a chance to escape, but Lawrence is 1:19:25.439 --> 1:19:28.240 listening on the phone. He hears all the gunshots, all 1:19:28.320 --> 1:19:31.200 the screaming, and he assumes the worst. He thinks that 1:19:31.680 --> 1:19:34.880 his family is being murdered. Sure, he doesn't know. 1:19:35.000 --> 1:19:37.439 It's almost like he forgets so that there's a little 1:19:37.479 --> 1:19:40.240 game going on and that's on him. 1:19:40.320 --> 1:19:43.880 He does seem to forget. Yeah, So, thinking that his 1:19:44.280 --> 1:19:52.599 family is perishing, he takes the saw and saws his 1:19:52.960 --> 1:19:56.439 foot off so that he can escape. 1:19:56.520 --> 1:20:00.160 No way around that. He then he does so. 1:20:00.200 --> 1:20:03.919 Takes the bullet, crawls over to the dead body, loads 1:20:04.040 --> 1:20:09.280 the gun and shoots Adam, thinking that that will be 1:20:09.320 --> 1:20:09.960 a good idea. 1:20:10.200 --> 1:20:13.559 I'm like, really not. Sometimes I'm just like what was 1:20:13.640 --> 1:20:17.160 he going for there? And Adam seems to sort of, 1:20:17.240 --> 1:20:20.000 i mean understandably, kind of feels the same way. He's 1:20:20.080 --> 1:20:23.439 like no, He's like, what are you doing? Don't And 1:20:23.479 --> 1:20:29.559 he's like, yeah, wait a second, what is happening right now? 1:20:29.600 --> 1:20:33.680 Are you doing? Could you staw excuse me? Could you 1:20:33.720 --> 1:20:41.280 stop stop? Oh jig saw? Okay wait okay. 1:20:41.400 --> 1:20:46.240 So meanwhile, Tap is chasing Zepp who we still think 1:20:46.320 --> 1:20:49.519 is Jigsaw. Yeah, he catches up to Zepp. There's a 1:20:49.720 --> 1:20:54.160 scuffle and Tap is shot and killed. So then Zepp 1:20:54.720 --> 1:20:58.840 comes into the room to kill Lawrence because he was 1:20:58.880 --> 1:21:01.160 too late. He didn't follow the rules. He didn't kill 1:21:01.200 --> 1:21:05.040 Adam by six o'clock. But oh wait, Adam is still 1:21:05.080 --> 1:21:09.920 alive and he attacks and kills Zepp. Yes, so then 1:21:10.439 --> 1:21:14.519 Lawrence crawls away to find help because he's bleeding to 1:21:14.600 --> 1:21:18.479 death and Adam has been shot and he's like, I 1:21:18.560 --> 1:21:20.240 need to go find help. 1:21:20.400 --> 1:21:22.920 Terry Elwis is the last girl in this movie, which 1:21:22.960 --> 1:21:23.599 is interesting. 1:21:25.640 --> 1:21:28.880 Well, no, I feel like it's Adam, I guess. 1:21:28.880 --> 1:21:31.559 Oh, yeah, that is true. Yeah, but also I'm thinking 1:21:31.640 --> 1:21:34.680 that because Cary el Was, I believe is later revealed 1:21:34.720 --> 1:21:37.160 to still be work, I think he goes to work 1:21:37.160 --> 1:21:37.799 for Jigsaw. 1:21:39.040 --> 1:21:40.800 What that's a hold on? 1:21:41.200 --> 1:21:43.479 No, wait, I might be I might be mis remembering 1:21:43.520 --> 1:21:47.160 that there's some there's a cast member that you think 1:21:47.520 --> 1:21:49.240 couldn't possibly come back but does. 1:21:49.840 --> 1:21:52.400 And those are the twists of the Saw franchise and 1:21:52.400 --> 1:21:54.400 that you love to see. 1:21:54.040 --> 1:21:57.000 And these are the Saw moments we love the most. Yeah, No, 1:21:57.120 --> 1:21:59.639 he doesn't, he doesn't die. Yeah, he I think later 1:21:59.720 --> 1:22:02.240 goes to I think that I don't know if he 1:22:02.280 --> 1:22:04.320 does it willingly. I don't know if he like I forget, 1:22:04.360 --> 1:22:10.120 if he like joins the like Jigsaw Ethos, or if 1:22:10.400 --> 1:22:14.599 Jigsaw is simply punishing him for having told him that 1:22:14.720 --> 1:22:18.479 his tumor was inoperable when it wasn't, which was you know, 1:22:18.720 --> 1:22:19.720 he was right to be mad. 1:22:20.840 --> 1:22:22.000 He was right to be mad. 1:22:22.280 --> 1:22:25.639 Yeah, because if Carrie l Was had been a less 1:22:25.640 --> 1:22:28.800 shitty doctor, Jigsaw wouldn't even be a thing. 1:22:29.760 --> 1:22:32.680 Is that the catalyst that gets everything going for Jigsaw? 1:22:33.320 --> 1:22:37.439 Yeah, it's when Jigsaw is so he attempts to take 1:22:37.439 --> 1:22:41.599 his own life after learning he has an inoperable tumor. Ok, 1:22:41.720 --> 1:22:45.479 it wasn't actually inoperable, right, and then it's after he 1:22:45.640 --> 1:22:49.960 survives that accident that he becomes Jigsaw. So no, Carrie 1:22:50.000 --> 1:22:53.439 el was Is being a shitty doctor kind of sets 1:22:53.479 --> 1:22:57.360 off the chain of events that leads to Jigsaw. 1:22:58.240 --> 1:23:01.160 But we don't we don't learn that until a later 1:23:01.439 --> 1:23:02.080 saw a movie. 1:23:02.240 --> 1:23:05.080 Yeah, that's not that's I don't think that they thought 1:23:05.120 --> 1:23:08.720 there was going to be morisaws, but they made up 1:23:08.720 --> 1:23:11.160 for it by making some of the best movies ever. 1:23:13.320 --> 1:23:18.000 Okay, so Lawrence has crawled away. He's bleeding to death, 1:23:18.120 --> 1:23:23.519 although apparently doesn't die. Then Adam searches Zep's body for 1:23:23.680 --> 1:23:26.559 a key to try to unlock his chains, but what 1:23:26.680 --> 1:23:31.519 he finds is another tape player. He hits play and 1:23:31.560 --> 1:23:38.719 it's Jigsaw's voice, a message to Zepp, Yeah, giving him 1:23:38.760 --> 1:23:43.880 a game to play woo. So Jigsaw had poisoned Zepp 1:23:44.160 --> 1:23:49.000 and said I have the antidote and you have to 1:23:49.160 --> 1:23:53.680 kill Alison and Diana in order to get the antidote. 1:23:54.600 --> 1:23:58.400 So basically this is the reveal that Zepp wasn't Jigsaw 1:23:58.439 --> 1:23:59.000 after all? 1:23:59.720 --> 1:24:05.080 But who is? And then can't then get ready for 1:24:05.160 --> 1:24:08.200 a mighty. 1:24:07.880 --> 1:24:10.160 The dead man who has been lying in the pool 1:24:10.160 --> 1:24:11.960 of blood in the middle of the room throughout the 1:24:12.080 --> 1:24:20.360 entire movie stands up. He's Jigsaw, Yeah, but who is that? 1:24:21.320 --> 1:24:28.120 He's John, the patient in Lawrence's hospital who has terminal cancer. 1:24:29.000 --> 1:24:33.240 And he gets up and he's like, Adam, you fucking loser. 1:24:33.760 --> 1:24:38.200 What this says carry Ela was forgetting he's doing. 1:24:41.760 --> 1:24:44.880 So Jigsaw is all like, Adam, you suck and you 1:24:45.560 --> 1:24:49.400 are gonna die, and then he says game over and 1:24:49.439 --> 1:24:56.960 then he slams the door, leaving Adam to perish. 1:24:54.280 --> 1:24:59.679 A top one hundred movie lines game over over slam. 1:25:00.160 --> 1:25:03.880 Oh my god, yeah, my blood pressure is spiking. Okay, 1:25:03.880 --> 1:25:06.200 So I just looked at Lawrence Gordon because I was like, 1:25:06.479 --> 1:25:07.680 it doesn't come up for a long time. 1:25:07.720 --> 1:25:08.080 Okay. 1:25:08.280 --> 1:25:14.040 So Lawrence Gordon in the Saw neverse, Yeah, still canonically alive. 1:25:14.640 --> 1:25:18.400 So what Lawrence Gordon? This is from Scholarly Journal Wikipedia. 1:25:18.600 --> 1:25:21.400 Lawrence Gordon is the man who diagnosed John Kramer's terminal 1:25:21.439 --> 1:25:24.360 cancer and was initially a suspect in the Jigsaw murder case. 1:25:24.439 --> 1:25:27.320 Of course, John targets Lawrence for being cold and on 1:25:27.400 --> 1:25:29.719 carrying to others and for cheating on his wife Alison. 1:25:30.600 --> 1:25:34.479 Lawrence is placed in a trap blah blah blah. His 1:25:34.560 --> 1:25:38.680 fate is unknown until Saw three D, when it is 1:25:38.720 --> 1:25:41.799 revealed that Lawrence passed out after using a hot steam 1:25:41.920 --> 1:25:46.360 pipe to cauterize his ankle stump. John found him unconscious 1:25:46.400 --> 1:25:50.240 shortly after and congratulated him for surviving. He then helped 1:25:50.320 --> 1:25:53.640 Lawrence recover and gave him a prosthetic foot. John recruited 1:25:53.720 --> 1:25:59.120 Lawrence afterwards and used his medical skills to prepare other traps. 1:25:58.880 --> 1:26:01.360 And this we don't learn until Saw seven. 1:26:01.920 --> 1:26:06.000 Until Saw seven. What, Yeah, because I was I was 1:26:06.000 --> 1:26:08.360 scanning Wikipedia earlier, and I'm like, oh, I guess he lives, 1:26:08.520 --> 1:26:11.640 but he like they there's also like flashbacks to the 1:26:11.680 --> 1:26:15.240 first Saw movie in almost every Saw movie, right, which 1:26:16.400 --> 1:26:19.720 gets confusing. So after even though Jigsaw's in every movie, 1:26:19.800 --> 1:26:23.840 Jigsaw dies in the third movie, Yeah, but you see flashbacks. 1:26:24.439 --> 1:26:27.720 So Tobin Bell is still getting those checks, but he's 1:26:27.760 --> 1:26:31.000 canonically dead. Carrie el Was could be brought back at 1:26:31.040 --> 1:26:33.760 any time. Really, I think that that is such a 1:26:33.840 --> 1:26:37.439 wild but yeah, so then he's like brought onto the 1:26:37.479 --> 1:26:39.839 production design team for Jigsaw. 1:26:41.560 --> 1:26:46.840 Basically, yeah, who's on Jigsaw's team? We don't Okay, we 1:26:46.920 --> 1:26:48.240 have to talk about the movie. 1:26:48.640 --> 1:26:52.200 Okay, there's actually we've we have like say what you 1:26:52.240 --> 1:26:56.240 will listeners, We have had some interesting discussions. So I 1:26:56.640 --> 1:27:01.120 think that, like truly, again, I don't think that the 1:27:01.160 --> 1:27:05.840 Saw franchise until apparently Spiral, which I now want to watch, 1:27:06.920 --> 1:27:11.960 was never like trying to explicitly tackle one social issue 1:27:12.840 --> 1:27:18.240 because Jigsaw is it sounds like such like an understatement. 1:27:18.240 --> 1:27:22.600 It's say, morally ambiguous, Jigsaw. It's hard to kind of 1:27:22.600 --> 1:27:27.200 know what is moral code is and you can quote 1:27:27.240 --> 1:27:31.600 me on that, but I do think it's like interesting 1:27:31.640 --> 1:27:34.720 that in a movie from two thousand and four that 1:27:34.920 --> 1:27:39.360 there are these attempts to I think, subvert classic horror 1:27:40.040 --> 1:27:42.880 tropes where it feels like it's playing on our expectations 1:27:43.000 --> 1:27:45.800 of you know, in horror movies. I feel like we 1:27:45.840 --> 1:27:49.479 are often it's often assumed that we are going to 1:27:50.320 --> 1:27:54.760 side with the police detectives, assume that they are good 1:27:54.760 --> 1:27:57.840 at their jobs, that they are morally upright, all this 1:27:58.000 --> 1:28:00.840 stuff that is like inherent to Copagan, which I kind 1:28:00.840 --> 1:28:03.639 of was like, I wonder how I forget how on 1:28:04.200 --> 1:28:07.040 Danny Glover's side we're supposed to be. It's pretty ambiguous, 1:28:07.160 --> 1:28:10.519 like it is pointed at like, I don't think that 1:28:10.520 --> 1:28:12.799 we're supposed to hate him. I don't think we're supposed 1:28:12.840 --> 1:28:14.320 to be rooting for his demise. 1:28:14.560 --> 1:28:19.080 I think we're supposed to be on his side, even. 1:28:19.240 --> 1:28:23.000 He's also like really, I was sort of struggling with 1:28:23.000 --> 1:28:24.640 it this time. I could believe in two thousand and 1:28:24.640 --> 1:28:26.240 four year we're supposed to but I think I can 1:28:26.280 --> 1:28:28.439 be read in a lot of different I think. 1:28:28.320 --> 1:28:31.240 The intention is that sorry, I mean defending a son. 1:28:31.880 --> 1:28:36.840 I think the intention of the filmmakers is for Danny 1:28:36.840 --> 1:28:40.679 Glover's character to be even after he gets like booted 1:28:40.720 --> 1:28:44.840 off the force and he's doing his weird like ongoing 1:28:45.120 --> 1:28:47.000 investigation where he's mostly. 1:28:46.680 --> 1:28:50.080 Just like hires like TMZ to like spy on Carrie 1:28:50.160 --> 1:28:51.200 Elwa's for. 1:28:51.479 --> 1:28:54.400 Right, And he also seems to know that because he's 1:28:54.479 --> 1:28:58.160 like surveilling ZEP and it seems like he because he's like, 1:28:58.200 --> 1:29:01.760 what's this guy doing in I don't know that all 1:29:01.800 --> 1:29:06.600 got confusing, but sensing how I think the filmmakers intended 1:29:06.600 --> 1:29:10.040 for the audience to perceive the various characters. I think 1:29:10.040 --> 1:29:14.160 that we are supposed to be rooting for Detective tap 1:29:14.240 --> 1:29:17.080 slash Danny Glover, not as like the protagonist, but. 1:29:17.240 --> 1:29:20.479 Which does make sense because casting Danny Glover right, I 1:29:20.479 --> 1:29:22.360 feel like, also, yeah, it does kind of tell you that, 1:29:22.760 --> 1:29:25.040 like you're not gonna put Danny Glover in a movie 1:29:25.080 --> 1:29:27.040 and then be like we hate him because he's so 1:29:27.080 --> 1:29:31.280 canonically loved. Right, Okay, then I guess I'll I totally 1:29:31.320 --> 1:29:34.000 see what you're saying. But I do think that in retrospect, 1:29:34.000 --> 1:29:36.639 there's a lot of different ways to look at it. Sure, 1:29:36.800 --> 1:29:41.320 and as the series goes on, there are more explicit 1:29:41.400 --> 1:29:47.760 criticisms of police brutality and like corruption propaganda, yeah, like 1:29:48.479 --> 1:29:52.320 and also there are tropes at play in this movie 1:29:52.840 --> 1:29:59.600 that are subverting nothing. So so there's a pretty intense damseling. 1:29:59.640 --> 1:30:02.000 I mean, I guess that you could argue everyone in 1:30:02.080 --> 1:30:05.720 Saw is a damsel to an extent, because that's kind 1:30:05.720 --> 1:30:08.000 of a Jigsaw's whole thing. But it does seem like 1:30:08.080 --> 1:30:10.439 Carrie el was his family, his wife and his daughter 1:30:10.560 --> 1:30:14.920 are damseled in the more traditional sense right there, kept 1:30:14.920 --> 1:30:16.760 captive in their own home, and they don't appear to 1:30:16.800 --> 1:30:19.000 have skills to get out of the situation. 1:30:19.200 --> 1:30:22.840 Which like the I mean, why would they kind of thing, 1:30:23.200 --> 1:30:24.599 But that's true for me. 1:30:24.680 --> 1:30:28.600 They didn't go to Jigsaw boot camp like me, I 1:30:28.680 --> 1:30:30.960 dare you put a bear trap on my head? Not 1:30:31.200 --> 1:30:33.920 a problem, Not a problem. I'll be at dinner on time. 1:30:34.320 --> 1:30:36.680 There should be sort of like kind of like a 1:30:36.680 --> 1:30:40.479 self defense class, but it's like a Jigsaw defense class. 1:30:40.520 --> 1:30:43.639 Like if you get trapped in a Jigsaw trap, this 1:30:43.720 --> 1:30:45.280 is how you get out of it, and that should 1:30:45.280 --> 1:30:46.439 be a class. 1:30:46.520 --> 1:30:48.680 This is another Mad TV sketch from two thousand and 1:30:48.720 --> 1:30:51.920 seven that we should have written. It's just not fair. 1:30:52.840 --> 1:30:55.320 Okay, So my I see what you're saying, and I think, 1:30:55.360 --> 1:30:57.400 what this is, This is the big thing for me 1:30:57.640 --> 1:31:00.920 in this movie that I think otherwise holds up pretty well. 1:31:01.560 --> 1:31:06.200 It's that the female characters, and particularly his wife and 1:31:06.360 --> 1:31:12.920 his daughter, are mostly there to provide stakes for one 1:31:12.960 --> 1:31:17.560 of the male protagonists. They get captured, they get held hostage. 1:31:18.080 --> 1:31:21.960 I would say, at least his wife, Allison, fights back 1:31:22.040 --> 1:31:25.320 against Zepp. She gets herself untied. 1:31:24.880 --> 1:31:27.799 And in a way that's like realistic and didn't seem 1:31:27.840 --> 1:31:29.599 like magic, you know. 1:31:29.760 --> 1:31:33.000 Right right, Like she manages it because it kind of 1:31:33.000 --> 1:31:36.720 like happens gradually and it all feels like attracts. So 1:31:37.280 --> 1:31:40.559 she gets herself untied, kind of tricks him a little bit, 1:31:41.320 --> 1:31:43.519 you know, waits for the opportune moment, springs a little 1:31:43.560 --> 1:31:46.519 trap on him, grabs the gun from Zep, holds him 1:31:46.520 --> 1:31:50.400 at gunpoint, fights with him because he kind of fights back, 1:31:50.439 --> 1:31:52.960 and grabs the gun again. She then grabs a pair 1:31:52.960 --> 1:31:57.439 of scissors and stabs him in the leg. He while 1:31:57.479 --> 1:32:01.200 he's kind of pretty awesome incapacitated and then also distracted. 1:32:00.720 --> 1:32:04.000 Is a household object kill It is like it's not 1:32:04.600 --> 1:32:07.240 it's yeah, it's not good. 1:32:08.720 --> 1:32:12.799 It's not one of those like traditionally, like seminin ones 1:32:12.800 --> 1:32:14.760 that we see a lot where it's like, oh, well, 1:32:14.760 --> 1:32:17.040 a woman is would be in the kitchen cooking with 1:32:17.040 --> 1:32:17.800 a frying pant. 1:32:17.960 --> 1:32:22.120 Frying pant kind so it's scissors because women be crafting. 1:32:22.320 --> 1:32:25.760 That's my that's my that's my disingenuous. 1:32:25.000 --> 1:32:28.360 Read honestly, if I if wanted. 1:32:28.040 --> 1:32:30.160 To be scraped, therefore. 1:32:32.360 --> 1:32:37.040 Exactly so. So she stabs some scissors and then he's like, 1:32:37.360 --> 1:32:39.160 you know, injured. And then also I think this is 1:32:39.160 --> 1:32:42.760 when Danny Glover comes in, so so Zepp is distracted, 1:32:43.000 --> 1:32:47.280 and this gives Alison a chance for her to grab 1:32:47.640 --> 1:32:50.920 Diana and run away. So she manages to like fight 1:32:51.000 --> 1:32:54.679 back and escape on her own. Again, Danny Glover comes 1:32:54.760 --> 1:32:58.080 in right around then, but he's not he doesn't save them, 1:32:58.200 --> 1:33:01.479 She saves herself and her daughter. Yes, So I felt 1:33:01.520 --> 1:33:05.599 like that was kind of out of the ordinary for 1:33:05.640 --> 1:33:07.640 what we would generally see. 1:33:07.920 --> 1:33:10.320 Partial credit. Give partial credit on that, because I do 1:33:10.400 --> 1:33:13.160 agree that they are they're like Damsel for the majority 1:33:13.160 --> 1:33:18.080 of the movie. They're not characterized outside of giving Carrie 1:33:18.080 --> 1:33:19.160 Elwa's steaks. 1:33:19.880 --> 1:33:23.320 There is kind of an attempt made at that, especially 1:33:23.400 --> 1:33:29.000 with the relationship between Lawrence and Alison. But it feels 1:33:29.040 --> 1:33:31.639 so just like Half Baked and Tropy. 1:33:31.920 --> 1:33:34.519 It's mostly like off screen too, it's mostly just like 1:33:34.520 --> 1:33:38.000 what you hear an argument they're having while Diana's in bed, 1:33:38.320 --> 1:33:44.960 and like, yeah, you know, an attempt, sure, but not amazing, 1:33:45.360 --> 1:33:50.160 not amazing. It's not amazing, controversially not amazing. Did you 1:33:50.240 --> 1:33:53.120 know you want to know something about Lee Wannell? Tell 1:33:53.160 --> 1:33:57.920 me he wrote and directed The Invisible Man. Oh yeah, 1:33:57.960 --> 1:34:00.320 he's still at it to these days, to this damn day, 1:34:00.400 --> 1:34:03.439 to these days, to these days, to these day. Thank 1:34:03.479 --> 1:34:06.080 you for I was like, maybe I didn't say that there, 1:34:08.280 --> 1:34:12.080 but I did. I love that Lee Wannel and James 1:34:12.080 --> 1:34:16.000 wand they are friends till the very end. Because Lee 1:34:16.040 --> 1:34:20.639 Wannell's eventual, he writes, He writes the first three Saws honestly, 1:34:21.360 --> 1:34:25.240 wan and Wanall or Wanell, depending on your mood. They 1:34:25.280 --> 1:34:28.679 really they really set a strong foundation for the Saw franchise. 1:34:28.760 --> 1:34:34.200 The first three Saws, the original Saw trilogy is incredible. 1:34:34.240 --> 1:34:41.920 It's the full story of Jigsaw. Sorry women, yes, no, 1:34:42.560 --> 1:34:46.160 it's it's there was an attempt made, and I guess 1:34:46.200 --> 1:34:47.760 the best that you can say for it is it 1:34:47.800 --> 1:34:49.240 was good for two thousand and four. 1:34:50.280 --> 1:34:54.320 Yeah, I guess, but maybe I think some tropes were subverted, 1:34:54.560 --> 1:34:58.280 some were very much leaned into as far as like 1:34:58.400 --> 1:35:02.720 the characterization of women in a horror movie. Yeah, so 1:35:03.120 --> 1:35:06.240 I found that to be the most kind of glaring 1:35:06.360 --> 1:35:12.000 issue with this movie. Other than that, like I kind 1:35:12.000 --> 1:35:14.840 of the other trope that stood out to me, I mean, 1:35:14.920 --> 1:35:18.920 I think that this movie is still a majority white cast. 1:35:18.960 --> 1:35:22.760 There is some diversity in the movie. However, it did 1:35:22.840 --> 1:35:25.760 sort of like this is a trope I think we've 1:35:25.800 --> 1:35:28.840 discussed on the show at some point, but the frequency 1:35:29.080 --> 1:35:32.240 that people of color and like black actors specifically are 1:35:32.320 --> 1:35:36.080 cast as cops, Yeah, as a way of kind of 1:35:36.240 --> 1:35:41.559 tacitly endorsing the police industrial complex, which obviously has an 1:35:41.560 --> 1:35:44.800 adverse effect on the black community in a massive, massive way. 1:35:44.920 --> 1:35:48.080 And so you see a lot of characters who are 1:35:48.120 --> 1:35:51.680 cops who were played by people of color in not 1:35:51.720 --> 1:35:53.840 to pull a page from Jane's Want book, but in 1:35:53.840 --> 1:35:56.200 a bit of an insidious way. 1:35:57.880 --> 1:36:02.000 You might also say that it's kind of malignant. 1:36:01.960 --> 1:36:07.320 Yes, and it's conjuring some doubt for me, But that 1:36:07.400 --> 1:36:09.240 is I mean, that is a t that you know, 1:36:09.520 --> 1:36:13.920 I'm not gonna say that this was done intentionally to Like, 1:36:14.160 --> 1:36:15.600 I don't think they were trying to do that. I 1:36:15.640 --> 1:36:18.559 just think it is like a common trope that is 1:36:18.600 --> 1:36:23.120 often kind of overlooked, and they die. They both die, 1:36:23.200 --> 1:36:25.679 Like the two main characters who are people of color 1:36:25.800 --> 1:36:30.080 are cops who die, so right, we don't love that. 1:36:30.320 --> 1:36:34.479 I have a feeling that James wand his only intention, 1:36:35.040 --> 1:36:39.719 i'd imagine was to just have some inclusive casting as 1:36:40.160 --> 1:36:42.120 a person of color himself. 1:36:41.960 --> 1:36:44.800 And also have Danny Glover in your movie by any 1:36:44.840 --> 1:36:49.439 means necessary, like obviously, and also I will say in 1:36:50.720 --> 1:36:53.479 because I'll defend James Wan until I absolutely die. Like 1:36:54.479 --> 1:36:58.960 Lee Wannel Wannell and James Wan are Australian, They very 1:36:59.000 --> 1:37:02.040 well and young. They may not have been familiar with 1:37:02.320 --> 1:37:06.720 the dark history of the American policing system outside of 1:37:06.840 --> 1:37:11.479 just like movies, many Americans were not aware who were 1:37:11.479 --> 1:37:14.439 not directly affected by it, you know, sure, So I 1:37:14.439 --> 1:37:16.800 don't think this was done intentionally. I just wanted to 1:37:17.439 --> 1:37:19.479 point it out because it is. It's like, I don't 1:37:19.520 --> 1:37:23.439 want to knock inclusive casting, right, but all are you know? 1:37:24.080 --> 1:37:27.040 I mean, I guess in the context of the police 1:37:27.040 --> 1:37:29.880 and industrial complext Danny Glover is supposed to be a hero. 1:37:31.360 --> 1:37:35.559 You know what I'm saying. It's a complicated issue that 1:37:35.680 --> 1:37:39.439 this movie is like, not a particularly bad perpetrator of 1:37:39.560 --> 1:37:42.880 it's just whatever, very complicated discussion. Sure, but I did 1:37:42.960 --> 1:37:45.599 want to point out that our two main characters who 1:37:45.640 --> 1:37:48.320 are people of color are cast as cops who die. 1:37:49.040 --> 1:37:51.200 Yeah, and I did that did ping for me too, 1:37:51.560 --> 1:37:55.920 But then I thought about everyone else who dies or lives. Well, 1:37:56.040 --> 1:37:59.360 although I mean as far as the people who live, 1:37:59.520 --> 1:38:00.640 I guess. 1:37:59.840 --> 1:38:03.920 It apparently Lawrence lives. Jigsaw, I mean Adam. 1:38:03.680 --> 1:38:07.519 As far as we can tell in this movie. Just 1:38:07.600 --> 1:38:12.000 isolating this movie, Adam, I think we assume will die 1:38:12.120 --> 1:38:14.280 because he doesn't escape the escape room. 1:38:14.479 --> 1:38:16.040 It's kind of it was kind of giving some x 1:38:16.080 --> 1:38:19.559 mac in a pre x macina. Right. Yeah, he's fucked 1:38:19.560 --> 1:38:22.280 in a similar way to Dominic Aeson. 1:38:22.800 --> 1:38:27.439 Uh huh. It really seems like Lawrence is going to 1:38:27.520 --> 1:38:30.920 die because he is so close to bleeding out. Wait 1:38:31.000 --> 1:38:35.000 till twenty ten comes around. Turns out he cauterized the 1:38:35.040 --> 1:38:38.160 wound and passed out. Kind of the only people who 1:38:38.280 --> 1:38:44.480 survive are Alison, Alison and Diana and Jigsaw and Jigsaw. 1:38:44.920 --> 1:38:48.240 So we do have whatever I not to Again, this 1:38:48.360 --> 1:38:52.320 is like, I don't think intentional in the story. I 1:38:52.920 --> 1:38:55.000 doesn't seem like any of these parts were written for 1:38:55.080 --> 1:38:59.599 anyone of any particular race, right, But it's just yeah, 1:38:59.600 --> 1:39:01.560 I just always feels like worth noting it. 1:39:01.760 --> 1:39:04.559 Yeah, I mean it's worth pondering for sure. 1:39:05.280 --> 1:39:08.360 Oh. Also, the other character who we haven't talked about, 1:39:08.920 --> 1:39:13.360 Carla Song, who is the student that Carrie els is 1:39:13.479 --> 1:39:18.439 cheating with. Right, so that is we know nothing about 1:39:18.439 --> 1:39:21.800 this car I mean it is basically all of the 1:39:21.800 --> 1:39:24.320 women in this movie except for Amanda, who we should 1:39:24.360 --> 1:39:29.720 talk about, are there to flesh out Carrie el Wes's 1:39:29.760 --> 1:39:33.600 failures as a man. Sure, and Carla Song in particular 1:39:34.160 --> 1:39:36.639 is sort of there just to be like the student 1:39:36.720 --> 1:39:39.280 that he's having sex with. She has a couple of lines. 1:39:39.600 --> 1:39:42.360 He's mostly mean to her. It is framed as bad. 1:39:42.760 --> 1:39:46.960 That is why Jigsaw, like Jigsaw, is very pro Carla Song, 1:39:48.240 --> 1:39:51.720 you think, because guess what, this isn't the last saw 1:39:51.720 --> 1:39:55.400 thing she appears in per Wikipedia, this had this. She 1:39:55.520 --> 1:39:57.639 shows up I think in a video game. So here's 1:39:57.640 --> 1:40:01.280 what happens. Oh WHOA Carlos is a medical student at 1:40:01.320 --> 1:40:05.479 Saint Eusta's hospital and doctor Lawrence Gordon's mistress. She plays 1:40:05.520 --> 1:40:07.880 a larger role in the video game Saw Too Flesh 1:40:07.880 --> 1:40:10.240 and Blood, where she is targeted by Jigsaw. Okay, so 1:40:10.280 --> 1:40:12.120 Jigsaw is actually not team Carla Song. 1:40:12.479 --> 1:40:14.000 Let's find out why damn? 1:40:14.160 --> 1:40:17.360 Where she is targeted by Jigsaw for stealing vital pharmaceuticals 1:40:17.400 --> 1:40:19.559 and selling them on the street for profit. She is 1:40:19.560 --> 1:40:22.800 found by Michael Tap. So this is like, is this 1:40:22.880 --> 1:40:25.679 a prequel? She's found by Michael Tap with her arms 1:40:25.680 --> 1:40:27.840 secured to the ceiling of an elevator shaft and her 1:40:27.960 --> 1:40:30.639 legs secured to the roof of an elevator. Oh my god. 1:40:31.200 --> 1:40:33.680 Michael is tasked with completing a test in order to 1:40:33.720 --> 1:40:36.800 release her safely. If he fails, the elevator will lower 1:40:36.920 --> 1:40:39.800 and tear Carla in half. It is revealed that she 1:40:39.880 --> 1:40:42.719 is a part of a criminal conspiracy. Carla. 1:40:43.760 --> 1:40:47.920 Oh wait. Stanny Glover's character's name is David Tape. 1:40:48.160 --> 1:40:48.960 So who is Michael? 1:40:49.120 --> 1:40:51.800 Maybe Michael is. 1:40:50.439 --> 1:40:56.839 His brother's brother. Tap is a very specific Okay, wait, Michael, 1:40:56.920 --> 1:41:00.479 Who the hell is Michael Tap? This is so awesome. 1:41:01.040 --> 1:41:05.080 He No, Michael Tap is Detective David Taps a strange son. 1:41:09.920 --> 1:41:14.360 There is the Saw universe. Don't underestimate it. You think 1:41:14.400 --> 1:41:16.680 Carla Song was a throwaway character, Well I did too. 1:41:16.800 --> 1:41:19.560 Guess what. She gets ripped in half by an elevator. 1:41:19.880 --> 1:41:22.320 She was not forgotten by Jigsaw, and. 1:41:22.240 --> 1:41:25.720 That's why the Twists and Saw are the best in 1:41:25.760 --> 1:41:26.320 the business. 1:41:26.720 --> 1:41:28.880 She shows up in a video game five years later. 1:41:28.920 --> 1:41:33.120 Are you joking? The most brilliant cinematic universe ever created. 1:41:34.439 --> 1:41:37.840 Last female character that also Amanda, survives. I do think 1:41:37.840 --> 1:41:43.120 we have. We have a lot of mostly white survivors. Yeah. Yeah, 1:41:43.400 --> 1:41:46.880 and they are mostly women, which is good. And they 1:41:46.920 --> 1:41:50.000 do all I think eventually die because it's so you 1:41:50.040 --> 1:41:51.880 just give it a couple of years. They their days 1:41:51.880 --> 1:41:54.760 are numbered. Diana, I actually don't know what happens to her. 1:41:54.960 --> 1:41:57.559 There's there. Maybe there should be a reboot. Maybe that's 1:41:57.640 --> 1:42:03.599 maybe that's what I do. Maybe that's what I'm working on. Oh, okay, 1:42:03.720 --> 1:42:11.040 is they're alive? Okay? So all I have to say 1:42:11.479 --> 1:42:14.880 Amanda is our last female character, and I think our 1:42:14.960 --> 1:42:17.519 last character that we haven't really discussed very much. 1:42:17.680 --> 1:42:21.000 Right, which I think will be a conduit by which 1:42:21.040 --> 1:42:21.600 we can I. 1:42:21.600 --> 1:42:25.040 Mean, we're approaching the two hour mark. Dreamie. 1:42:25.520 --> 1:42:29.759 I've been recording for one hour and forty eight minutes. 1:42:32.640 --> 1:42:36.280 Okay, the Glaucus took. The clock is ticking, and at 1:42:36.280 --> 1:42:39.320 the end, Fleet tears his own fur off and it 1:42:39.360 --> 1:42:40.439 turns out it's Jigsaw. 1:42:41.320 --> 1:42:42.759 Oh what a twist. 1:42:45.800 --> 1:42:48.920 Okay, So Amanda, Yeah, Amanda is an interesting character. I 1:42:48.920 --> 1:42:52.160 feel like, for as much as I love talking about 1:42:52.200 --> 1:42:54.080 the Socks Bandit universe, let's just talk about her in 1:42:54.120 --> 1:42:58.120 the context of this movie, because in the subsequent movies 1:42:58.160 --> 1:43:00.760 she turned, she becomes an association, comes like one of 1:43:00.840 --> 1:43:04.679 Jigsaw's minions stream Rise of Grew. 1:43:06.000 --> 1:43:08.000 Well, do you think she's more of a Kevin or 1:43:08.040 --> 1:43:09.679 more of a Stuart or more of a Bob. 1:43:10.040 --> 1:43:12.519 Oh, that's a good question, Thank you for asking. I 1:43:12.560 --> 1:43:15.200 would say she's not She's not a Kevin. I wouldn't 1:43:15.200 --> 1:43:17.760 say that she's like, well, no, actually she may. She 1:43:17.800 --> 1:43:20.839 may be close to Kevin because she does have leadership 1:43:20.960 --> 1:43:23.519 qualities later on, but she doesn't need to be in charge. 1:43:23.560 --> 1:43:25.439 But she is kind of the head minion. And that's 1:43:25.479 --> 1:43:27.760 how I would describe Kevin. I think she's got a 1:43:27.800 --> 1:43:28.960 little bit of Kevin energy. 1:43:29.360 --> 1:43:31.800 Sure, because Bob is like the baby one. 1:43:32.200 --> 1:43:34.320 Bob is the baby. Gotta love him. Stuart is the 1:43:34.360 --> 1:43:40.639 rebel and the rock star. Kevin he is he's funny, 1:43:40.640 --> 1:43:42.800 but he's you know, but he's the one that picks 1:43:42.840 --> 1:43:48.840 up the phone. Does Kevin le Mignons such a good 1:43:48.840 --> 1:43:57.919 part Bello, It's so funny. Amanda. I think is interesting 1:43:57.920 --> 1:44:01.040 because she is the only woman in the movie whose 1:44:01.040 --> 1:44:04.479 steaks are not directly tied to Carrie el Was. She's 1:44:04.520 --> 1:44:07.080 like the only woman who stands on her own as 1:44:07.080 --> 1:44:10.360 a character, which kind of bears out throughout the franchise 1:44:10.439 --> 1:44:13.880 because the other women don't come back. She does as 1:44:13.960 --> 1:44:18.120 Kevin le Mignon. But I also think that it's like, 1:44:19.160 --> 1:44:21.920 I don't know that she's necessarily treated in a I 1:44:21.920 --> 1:44:23.160 don't know, what do you think. I didn't think she 1:44:23.240 --> 1:44:26.679 was treated in a particularly gendered way by Jigsaw. I'm 1:44:26.680 --> 1:44:30.000 more an issue with how they were treating her character 1:44:30.160 --> 1:44:31.639 as a recovering addict. 1:44:32.280 --> 1:44:34.719 I agree, although her bear. 1:44:34.600 --> 1:44:37.040 Drop on the head doesn't feel particularly gendered to me. 1:44:37.160 --> 1:44:40.240 It just feels like, Hey, don't do that to. 1:44:40.240 --> 1:44:45.800 Me, because she's only in one sequence and it's in 1:44:45.840 --> 1:44:52.000 a flashback where she doesn't really interact with our main characters. 1:44:52.439 --> 1:44:56.760 My main note about that was, why do the detectives 1:44:57.479 --> 1:45:00.800 have Lawrence watch her testimony. 1:45:01.000 --> 1:45:02.160 Amazing question. 1:45:02.400 --> 1:45:05.599 If he's a suspect, that does I mean? 1:45:05.720 --> 1:45:08.719 Ultimately, Danny Glover is estrange from his son for a reason. 1:45:08.800 --> 1:45:12.040 He's bad at his job, and I wonder, I guess 1:45:12.040 --> 1:45:14.440 that if you play the video game wrong, Danny Glover's 1:45:14.439 --> 1:45:18.759 son is also a bad cop because Carla Song gets 1:45:18.840 --> 1:45:20.240 torn in half by an elevator. 1:45:20.280 --> 1:45:25.320 Oh shit, yeah, yeah, so my when I was examining 1:45:25.600 --> 1:45:29.360 the Amanda piece of the puzzle, if you will, if 1:45:29.400 --> 1:45:31.919 we're looking at this movie as if it's a puzzle, 1:45:35.880 --> 1:45:41.280 uh huh, why would the detectives have Lawrence watch her testimony? 1:45:41.360 --> 1:45:45.679 Doesn't make any sense? Good question, But yes, I don't. 1:45:45.880 --> 1:45:49.200 Nothing pinged for me as far as like the treatment 1:45:49.240 --> 1:45:53.280 of her character seems sexist. But yes, and again we 1:45:53.320 --> 1:45:59.720 are trying to examine the logic and morality of Jigsaw's 1:46:00.960 --> 1:46:06.599 code of ethics, which often doesn't make much sense. 1:46:07.320 --> 1:46:13.600 Yeah no, but I think the movie approaches He's chaos kadochy. 1:46:13.680 --> 1:46:15.639 I maybe would have to see more of the rewatch 1:46:15.680 --> 1:46:19.400 more of the franchise, But I wonder how much of 1:46:19.800 --> 1:46:25.000 this story is the filmmaker's asking the audience to be 1:46:25.160 --> 1:46:30.200 like well, yeah, these victims, like they're sort of deserving 1:46:30.240 --> 1:46:32.599 of where they're at, and whether or not they managed 1:46:32.640 --> 1:46:35.640 to escape is going to sort of determine, like and 1:46:35.680 --> 1:46:39.280 like how they feel about if they've you know, reevaluated 1:46:39.320 --> 1:46:43.959 their life, if they're gonna be like deserving of a redemption. 1:46:44.640 --> 1:46:47.519 So I'm not really sure where the movies land on, 1:46:47.720 --> 1:46:48.439 Like I. 1:46:48.360 --> 1:46:50.439 Feel like it is kind of like left up to 1:46:50.560 --> 1:46:52.800 you because it's like, I don't know, I mean, it's 1:46:52.800 --> 1:46:54.519 like one of those things where we were like, well, 1:46:54.840 --> 1:46:57.479 no one's leaving the theater, being like Jigsaw was one 1:46:57.520 --> 1:47:03.639 hundred percent correct, but except for except for the people 1:47:03.640 --> 1:47:09.240 who were are on a list. But I don't know. 1:47:09.280 --> 1:47:11.200 I feel like it's supposed to be ambiguous in a 1:47:11.200 --> 1:47:13.920 way that I think is like kind of interesting. And 1:47:14.280 --> 1:47:18.839 the more time that goes on, I think the more reads, 1:47:19.040 --> 1:47:21.360 whether it intended at the time or not, kind of 1:47:21.600 --> 1:47:25.480 become possible for the modern saw connoisseur. 1:47:25.760 --> 1:47:26.679 Sure if you will. 1:47:27.280 --> 1:47:30.439 I wanted to say something really quickly about the guy 1:47:30.479 --> 1:47:34.120 who designs the saw traps, so Saw one, you don't 1:47:34.240 --> 1:47:36.600 they're all it's such a I mean, this movie was 1:47:36.600 --> 1:47:39.280 made for a million dollars, which is wild because you're like, 1:47:39.520 --> 1:47:42.120 isn't that just like how much Danny Glover would make 1:47:42.280 --> 1:47:45.439 for showing up? Apparently it was a labor of love. 1:47:45.560 --> 1:47:48.599 Carrie Elle Was and Danny Glover both very big stars, 1:47:49.200 --> 1:47:51.519 Danny Glover more so, but Carrie Elle was, you know, 1:47:51.640 --> 1:47:54.559 a well known actor, like kind of wild that they 1:47:54.960 --> 1:48:00.840 were in this Australian movie by two twenty five year olds. Also, 1:48:01.080 --> 1:48:03.000 but I think that that's beautiful. I like that. 1:48:03.080 --> 1:48:07.440 Yeah, I also like I don't know enough about like actors' salaries. 1:48:07.680 --> 1:48:11.280 You hear about like Tom Cruise gets twenty million dollars 1:48:11.280 --> 1:48:13.759 for every mission Impossible movie, and then I think people 1:48:13.800 --> 1:48:19.040 assume that like most stars make that on every movie 1:48:19.080 --> 1:48:21.000 there is sure, but I feel like, you know, like 1:48:21.640 --> 1:48:25.680 not as bankable of stars, and like character actors and 1:48:25.680 --> 1:48:29.479 stuff like make a far more modest living, you know, 1:48:29.600 --> 1:48:33.280 and like I think Glover pretty bankable, pretty bankable for sure, 1:48:33.800 --> 1:48:35.360 But I don't I don't know, I don't know how 1:48:35.439 --> 1:48:37.360 much she was paid for this anyways. 1:48:37.439 --> 1:48:39.280 I wonder if he was kind of like in a 1:48:39.560 --> 1:48:41.559 I don't know, or maybe it's one of those one 1:48:41.600 --> 1:48:43.720 for me, one for them, and the one for me 1:48:43.960 --> 1:48:48.160 is saw could be Saw one two thousand and four. Yeah, 1:48:48.439 --> 1:48:51.400 that would be the one for me. Uh, make no mistake. 1:48:51.479 --> 1:48:53.160 What else was he in around this time? Yeah? I 1:48:53.160 --> 1:48:54.360 guess that this wasn't like a. 1:48:54.439 --> 1:48:56.720 Well, his heyday was more in like the eighties with 1:48:56.720 --> 1:48:58.320 like lethal weapons. 1:48:58.040 --> 1:49:01.959 Eighties and nineties. Yeah. So he's making his indie comeback 1:49:02.280 --> 1:49:05.000 and Saw one, and I think he I mean, his 1:49:05.120 --> 1:49:08.080 character is so weird, but I always love watching Danny Glover, 1:49:08.160 --> 1:49:11.360 So there you got. I mean. Yeah, So, anyways, Saw one, 1:49:11.520 --> 1:49:14.200 the budget is very low. James Wand literally makes the 1:49:14.280 --> 1:49:18.400 Jigsaw doll himself with paper mache. Kind of amazing. Saw 1:49:18.720 --> 1:49:22.720 two and onwards. I believe they get a guy to 1:49:22.800 --> 1:49:25.920 design the traps, which is really cool. They have this 1:49:26.160 --> 1:49:30.120 art director who comes on Saw two through five, which 1:49:30.160 --> 1:49:32.800 is where all the iconic ones are. His name is 1:49:32.880 --> 1:49:34.760 David Hackle. I just wanted to give him a quick 1:49:34.760 --> 1:49:37.639 shout out because he designed some of the most horrific 1:49:37.640 --> 1:49:40.240 shit I've ever seen in my entire life. They describe 1:49:40.479 --> 1:49:42.919 from Saw too the pile of needles that I remembered. 1:49:43.680 --> 1:49:47.880 He and his department had to spend two weeks with 1:49:47.960 --> 1:49:52.320 one hundred and twenty thousand syringes individually removing the needle 1:49:52.360 --> 1:49:54.759 and replacing it with something that wouldn't hurt the actor. 1:49:55.120 --> 1:49:56.400 Whoa, I know. 1:49:56.760 --> 1:50:00.639 What the craft, the raw craft been of the sawt 1:50:00.640 --> 1:50:05.120 franchise iconic. It's iconic. Blow, it blows one's mind, not 1:50:05.240 --> 1:50:10.800 to be underestimated. In conclusion, I think this is an 1:50:10.880 --> 1:50:15.200 amazing movie. I love that it launched James Wand's career. 1:50:15.920 --> 1:50:20.040 There are I mean, it's It's also rare, unfortunately in 1:50:20.320 --> 1:50:24.599 Hollywood filmmaking for an Asian director to be making movies 1:50:24.680 --> 1:50:27.639 on this scale. But again, this movie kind of isn't 1:50:27.640 --> 1:50:30.280 on this scale. He only is making Aquaman movies now 1:50:30.479 --> 1:50:33.920 because he, you know, was up till four in the 1:50:33.920 --> 1:50:37.760 morning in Australia making a little jigsaw at his house. 1:50:37.880 --> 1:50:41.120 I think it's inspiring. Yeah, it makes me want to 1:50:41.160 --> 1:50:41.639 be better. 1:50:42.120 --> 1:50:44.280 It's the kind of inspiring thing that again would be 1:50:44.320 --> 1:50:46.759 on Viola Davis's Instagram feed. 1:50:47.320 --> 1:50:50.920 It's true and apparently this was like Saw was. Also 1:50:51.000 --> 1:50:55.000 there's something called Saw zero point five which I've never seen, 1:50:55.120 --> 1:50:56.960 but I guess this was like similar to what we 1:50:57.000 --> 1:50:58.599 do in the Shadouts. It was a short film they 1:50:58.600 --> 1:51:00.760 made that was then turned into a few, so that's 1:51:00.800 --> 1:51:02.920 how they got a million dollars to make the feature. 1:51:03.280 --> 1:51:06.679 What they made a Saw short and that's why Lee 1:51:06.720 --> 1:51:08.960 Wannel is in the movie is because he was in 1:51:09.080 --> 1:51:10.400 Saw zero point five. 1:51:10.640 --> 1:51:14.360 Right, Yes, I did read that on scholarly journal Wikipedia. 1:51:15.800 --> 1:51:20.200 I have a quick list of just kind of stray observations. 1:51:20.600 --> 1:51:23.639 Okay, I'm gonna just to the listeners. It is almost 1:51:23.680 --> 1:51:27.559 two hours, but we'll edit it well. 1:51:27.560 --> 1:51:32.800 Ed recording a hour. 1:51:30.560 --> 1:51:35.360 And what are yours? I want to know your strays. 1:51:35.040 --> 1:51:39.760 Okay, real quick. I appreciate that there is representation on 1:51:39.880 --> 1:51:46.320 screen of men being really bad at throwing and catching 1:51:47.000 --> 1:51:53.800 because they are tossing around keys, tapes, saws, cigarettes, lighters, 1:51:54.040 --> 1:51:58.120 photographs and the only thing that either of them actually 1:51:58.160 --> 1:52:01.840 catches is one time when Lawrence catches the tape player. 1:52:02.320 --> 1:52:07.120 Everything else they throw and catch terribly. It's bad, and 1:52:07.400 --> 1:52:11.519 I thought it was hilarious to watch. Another thing, Adam 1:52:11.800 --> 1:52:14.600 does not wash off his hand after sticking it in 1:52:14.680 --> 1:52:17.759 the toilet bowl, which seems to be full of liquid shit. 1:52:18.479 --> 1:52:21.960 There was like clean water in the toilet tank, but 1:52:22.000 --> 1:52:24.559 he does not clean off his hand and he just 1:52:24.680 --> 1:52:27.960 keeps it all poopy for the rest of the movie. Disgusting, horrible, 1:52:28.600 --> 1:52:33.160 Alison runs so slowly to her daughter's room when she 1:52:33.320 --> 1:52:38.280 hears Diana screaming when she's being abducted, she does a 1:52:38.320 --> 1:52:43.960 brisk walk. Shout out to the diorama that mister Saw 1:52:44.080 --> 1:52:49.080 aka Jigsaw made of the bathroom escape Room So funny, 1:52:49.120 --> 1:52:51.160 which we see. 1:52:51.120 --> 1:52:53.840 Are you up to well? Are you doing? 1:52:54.880 --> 1:52:57.840 I like to think that James Wand also made that himself. 1:52:57.880 --> 1:52:59.200 He was like, I just need this. 1:52:59.360 --> 1:53:04.439 Honestly, not unlikely based on what I have heard and 1:53:04.439 --> 1:53:06.920 read about this movie. Yep. 1:53:07.720 --> 1:53:13.280 Shout out to the line where Adam says, my last girlfriend, 1:53:13.520 --> 1:53:17.320 a feminist vegan punk, broke up with me because she 1:53:17.720 --> 1:53:19.559 thought I was too angry. 1:53:19.800 --> 1:53:24.599 And then you're like, okay, time to kill him. Yes, exactly, Okay, Jigsaw, 1:53:24.600 --> 1:53:26.200 game over Slam done. 1:53:26.240 --> 1:53:29.240 There's a part where Danny Glover yells at Zepp. Also 1:53:29.320 --> 1:53:34.040 the fact that there's a character named Zepp. So Danny 1:53:34.080 --> 1:53:37.880 Glover says, I'm going to kill you, you sick ass hoe. 1:53:40.600 --> 1:53:41.160 Amazing. 1:53:41.880 --> 1:53:46.559 Okay, here's a fun thing I rewound. 1:53:46.800 --> 1:53:47.559 Maybe that's not. 1:53:47.479 --> 1:53:49.320 What he says, but it sounds sound. 1:53:49.640 --> 1:53:52.280 No, let's just say, let's just say it. Yeah. 1:53:52.400 --> 1:53:59.720 Carrie you Willis plays a doctor in the movie New 1:53:59.800 --> 1:54:03.200 Years Eve, and I like to think that he's playing 1:54:03.200 --> 1:54:07.760 the same character in that movie and in the Saw movies. 1:54:07.439 --> 1:54:11.120 Because he lives right, he cauterizes world right. 1:54:11.160 --> 1:54:13.680 Oh my gosh, he has a prosthetic foot. So I 1:54:13.760 --> 1:54:17.439 think that the Saw movies and New Year's Eve take 1:54:17.479 --> 1:54:18.719 place in the same universe. 1:54:18.880 --> 1:54:20.920 I believe that. Okay, I'm in, I'm in. 1:54:21.320 --> 1:54:24.879 I had a quick question did escape rooms exist before 1:54:25.160 --> 1:54:29.559 the movie Saw, because they didn't really become popular until after. 1:54:29.960 --> 1:54:33.520 But I goog I did some research and it turns 1:54:33.560 --> 1:54:38.200 out kind of the first like modern escape room with 1:54:38.280 --> 1:54:44.800 something called True Dungeon in Indianapolis, Indiana, USA. It premiered 1:54:44.880 --> 1:54:48.600 in July two thousand and three, but they didn't become 1:54:48.640 --> 1:54:51.560 popular until like the twenty tens. I would say, and 1:54:51.600 --> 1:54:54.680 I wonder if Saw help popular. 1:54:55.360 --> 1:54:58.400 You have to imagine escape rooms Saw how a hand 1:54:58.400 --> 1:55:01.720 in it. I think so, if not Patient zero. I 1:55:01.800 --> 1:55:03.960 also wanted to shout out the guy who plays Zep 1:55:04.240 --> 1:55:07.120 was on Lost, and then once I learned that I couldn't. 1:55:07.600 --> 1:55:09.800 I didn't notice at first, but then on my rewatch 1:55:09.800 --> 1:55:11.920 and we're like, wait a second. I was forced to 1:55:11.920 --> 1:55:14.880 watch Lost ones He's on like a lot of the show. 1:55:15.120 --> 1:55:19.320 He's definitely in Lost. Also in Lost is ken Ling, 1:55:19.720 --> 1:55:22.400 the actor who plays Yes Detective Sing And I was like, 1:55:22.640 --> 1:55:25.280 is the whole cast of Lost in the movie Saw? 1:55:25.480 --> 1:55:29.800 And if so, did jj Abrams just watch Saw and 1:55:29.840 --> 1:55:32.320 be like, Now, this is a hell of a cast 1:55:32.360 --> 1:55:35.760 because Lost premieres in late two thousand and four. So 1:55:36.760 --> 1:55:43.320 what do you think about that? The jj Abrams James Wanstan, 1:55:43.720 --> 1:55:46.280 I would believe it. I hope so he knows what's 1:55:46.320 --> 1:55:46.880 good for him. 1:55:46.920 --> 1:55:51.960 And then my final thing is The soundtrack of the 1:55:52.000 --> 1:56:02.720 movie Saw was reviewed by Johnny Loftus AH. 1:56:01.440 --> 1:56:07.280 And five stars. Right, Okay, it's my pseudonym. This is hilarious. 1:56:07.760 --> 1:56:12.800 Johnny Loftus of AllMusic gave the soundtrack of Saw three 1:56:13.080 --> 1:56:17.600 out of five stars, AH, saying that the composer whose 1:56:17.680 --> 1:56:22.080 name is uh oh shit Klauser, don't know his first name. 1:56:22.000 --> 1:56:27.960 Though, Look, Hans Zimmer couldn't do it. Hans Zimmer couldn't 1:56:28.040 --> 1:56:30.520 make it happen the way that whoever this person is. 1:56:30.720 --> 1:56:34.800 Yeah, so the composer of the Saw score quote really 1:56:34.920 --> 1:56:38.880 nails it with his creaky clammy score, which makes you 1:56:38.920 --> 1:56:41.800 think that if he thinks he nails it, why only 1:56:41.880 --> 1:56:43.320 three out of five stars. 1:56:43.600 --> 1:56:46.760 That shit makes me so mad when someone writes you 1:56:46.920 --> 1:56:49.320 essentially a good review and then they're like, I give 1:56:49.360 --> 1:56:51.320 it a C minus and you're like for what. 1:56:51.960 --> 1:56:54.280 Yeah, who were you said you liked it? 1:56:54.400 --> 1:56:59.000 Scottish theater reviewer or whomever sounds like you liked the 1:56:59.080 --> 1:57:01.680 show in you'd give it three out of five stars. 1:57:01.920 --> 1:57:12.080 Table flip unbelievable. Johnny loftus Johnny Lofts, It's interesting that 1:57:12.160 --> 1:57:14.520 you would say that when Jigsaw is still at large. 1:57:14.720 --> 1:57:19.360 I'll say that, what are you implying je or is 1:57:19.400 --> 1:57:24.000 it Johnny Lofts Jigsaw Lock. 1:57:26.840 --> 1:57:33.000 Jiggy Jiggy Loft. I'm sorry that I just made you 1:57:33.040 --> 1:57:34.280 spit out your diet coke. 1:57:36.240 --> 1:57:43.000 It's all right, it's He'll be okay. Oh boy, well 1:57:43.840 --> 1:57:45.680 would you look at that. It's time for me to 1:57:45.720 --> 1:57:48.240 cut my foot off. Yeah. 1:57:48.320 --> 1:57:50.920 Oops, we did record for two hours and six minutes, 1:57:50.960 --> 1:57:53.240 so we both have to cut our feet off. 1:57:53.280 --> 1:57:55.360 There's someone at the door and it looks like the 1:57:55.360 --> 1:57:56.160 game might be over. 1:57:56.680 --> 1:57:57.360 The game is over? 1:58:00.680 --> 1:58:02.800 Can we start playing that? At the end of every app. 1:58:05.320 --> 1:58:08.840 Game over slam and then the episode's over. 1:58:09.120 --> 1:58:12.440 That's basically how every That's how every podcast episode should 1:58:13.800 --> 1:58:19.120 game over slam. Oh god, okay, So does this movie 1:58:19.160 --> 1:58:23.320 pass the viable test? I don't think so there's okay, 1:58:23.360 --> 1:58:29.080 hang on, Okay. So Diana goes to her mom's bedside 1:58:29.360 --> 1:58:31.760 and Allison says, are you okay? 1:58:32.000 --> 1:58:35.640 Can you hear me? And Diana says mommy, and she says, 1:58:35.680 --> 1:58:38.640 what is it, sweet pea? But then she's like, there's 1:58:38.680 --> 1:58:40.440 a man in my room. And then I talk about 1:58:40.480 --> 1:58:41.840 the man in her room for a little bit, and 1:58:41.840 --> 1:58:43.920 then she's like, I want Daddy to get the scary 1:58:43.960 --> 1:58:48.480 man away. So that one is up for debate because 1:58:48.520 --> 1:58:51.400 it starts out passing, but then the ultimately the conversation, 1:58:51.440 --> 1:58:53.720 the whole conversation is about the scary man, and then 1:58:53.840 --> 1:58:55.280 Daddy's saving them. 1:58:55.400 --> 1:58:55.760 Oh. 1:58:55.800 --> 1:58:59.800 There's another interaction later on where Alison is like, I 1:58:59.840 --> 1:59:01.960 need you to be really really strong for me, but 1:59:02.240 --> 1:59:05.880 like Diana's just kind of like crying. And also the 1:59:05.920 --> 1:59:09.400 context is like they're scared because a scary man has 1:59:09.440 --> 1:59:13.000 abducted them and might kill them. So I feel like, 1:59:13.160 --> 1:59:17.400 probably no. But there is some interactions and. 1:59:17.360 --> 1:59:20.480 There's some healthy debate over on Bechdel test dot com 1:59:20.880 --> 1:59:24.480 about whether this passes. There's like two people go absolutely 1:59:24.560 --> 1:59:28.640 going at it in the comments, trying to decide whether 1:59:28.680 --> 1:59:32.160 those two scenes you just describe constitute a past or not. 1:59:32.200 --> 1:59:36.760 I'm gonna say it doesn't constitute it. Unfortunately, I agree. Yeah, 1:59:36.880 --> 1:59:41.360 I look, it's a flawed metric and yeah, but it's 1:59:41.360 --> 1:59:43.920 also not a feminist movie. Like you know, this movie 1:59:44.720 --> 1:59:47.480 is an ally to no one because it's about Jigsaw, 1:59:48.240 --> 1:59:52.000 who is an ally to no one. He has no 1:59:52.040 --> 1:59:54.840 love in his heart except he does, except he practices. 1:59:54.960 --> 1:59:57.120 I feel like he does. Jigsaw is the bad side 1:59:57.120 --> 1:59:59.880 of wellness culpture because he's like practice gratitude, but he 2:00:00.120 --> 2:00:04.600 absolutely diabolical, scariest person in the world, but always screaming 2:00:04.640 --> 2:00:09.200 about gratitude. Okay, nipple scale who tough? 2:00:09.240 --> 2:00:12.600 Wow, I feel like this movie defies the scale. 2:00:13.160 --> 2:00:14.440 I honestly kind of did too. 2:00:16.280 --> 2:00:21.520 I mean, there's not that much that made me feel horrified. 2:00:22.080 --> 2:00:25.839 From a representation standpoint, I felt horrified. 2:00:25.920 --> 2:00:27.880 No, it's mostly I mean, especially for a movie of 2:00:27.920 --> 2:00:30.080 this era, I was expecting to us to have way 2:00:30.120 --> 2:00:34.720 more non ambiguous bad shit to talk about it because. 2:00:34.480 --> 2:00:38.960 It was this era. I feel like especially that regardless 2:00:39.000 --> 2:00:41.960 of what the movie was about or what genre it 2:00:42.040 --> 2:00:47.480 was in, you would just have characters randomly dropping homophobic slurs, 2:00:48.520 --> 2:00:54.400 making racist comments seemingly randomly, like just absolutely. 2:00:53.840 --> 2:00:56.080 Needless on one in one El's. 2:00:55.840 --> 2:00:59.920 Watch, certainly not so not that that one. 2:01:00.400 --> 2:01:03.160 Except for that one disparage and comment from Adam. I 2:01:03.200 --> 2:01:03.880 think that that was. 2:01:04.160 --> 2:01:06.840 Literally the feminists are angry. 2:01:06.640 --> 2:01:09.240 But that was like and also that character sucks. So 2:01:09.280 --> 2:01:11.200 I could also see it being like, oh, here's a 2:01:11.240 --> 2:01:12.400 reason to not like this guy. 2:01:12.720 --> 2:01:16.080 Yeah, and he presumably dies at the end. We're not sure. 2:01:16.640 --> 2:01:18.680 I don't think he does in the universe, but who does. 2:01:19.440 --> 2:01:24.480 Ultimately, Okay, I think I just need to give this 2:01:24.520 --> 2:01:24.840 like a. 2:01:25.040 --> 2:01:29.600 Is it like a two nipples? It's so hard because 2:01:29.600 --> 2:01:33.880 you're like, but I don't, Yeah, I guess, yeah, I 2:01:33.880 --> 2:01:35.960 guess I'll just go right down the middle. I'll say 2:01:35.960 --> 2:01:39.280 two and a half. There's nothing wrong. But it's also 2:01:39.360 --> 2:01:43.760 not like its mission is not to further a discussion 2:01:43.800 --> 2:01:45.240 of anything, except like. 2:01:45.800 --> 2:01:50.400 I beg is a feminist masterpiece. 2:01:50.880 --> 2:01:53.120 I mean, that is kind of what I believe, but 2:01:53.240 --> 2:01:55.560 I know that it's bad practice to say so, and 2:01:55.600 --> 2:01:59.839 it will decrease my credibility in the eyes of a listeners. Ultimately, 2:01:59.880 --> 2:02:02.720 I do think that this is still one of my 2:02:02.760 --> 2:02:04.560 favorite movies. I had no. 2:02:04.560 --> 2:02:06.680 Idea you were so into the Sauna verse. 2:02:07.360 --> 2:02:10.040 It's weird because I really just like Saw. One is 2:02:10.080 --> 2:02:13.080 such a classic and it's not like a comfort movie. 2:02:13.120 --> 2:02:15.240 But I watched Saw about like once a year. I 2:02:15.320 --> 2:02:18.160 enjoy Saw quite a bit, and I love James Wand 2:02:18.440 --> 2:02:20.800 And the more I feel like James Wand I got 2:02:20.840 --> 2:02:24.440 really into late last year because I was working with 2:02:24.480 --> 2:02:29.040 Sarah Marshall on something about the couple from the Conjuring movies, 2:02:29.680 --> 2:02:32.160 and so I got deep into the Wanta verse. And 2:02:32.200 --> 2:02:34.360 those movies are not good, but I still love James 2:02:34.440 --> 2:02:37.200 Wand So what can you do? I would get this 2:02:37.240 --> 2:02:41.320 movie two and a half nipples and five hundred little jigsaws. 2:02:41.800 --> 2:02:45.480 Oh oh yeah, what was I thinking? Yeah, a five 2:02:45.560 --> 2:02:46.920 hundred piece jigsaw puzzle. 2:02:47.160 --> 2:02:47.680 Exactly. 2:02:47.920 --> 2:02:53.320 See, I'd give it a thousand pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. 2:02:53.800 --> 2:02:55.680 I really want there to be more jigsaws. 2:02:56.000 --> 2:02:58.640 Here's what I'm going to do, because you gave me 2:02:58.680 --> 2:03:02.879 an idea just the Saw movies for my movie marathon 2:03:03.000 --> 2:03:08.040 this Halloween season. I'm going to do Hallo Wan and 2:03:08.080 --> 2:03:09.840 then we can watch more Lignan again because I've never 2:03:09.840 --> 2:03:11.760 seen Insidious. The insidious movies. 2:03:12.240 --> 2:03:16.440 Insidious is pretty fun. I say, let's I would advocate 2:03:16.480 --> 2:03:18.920 for us watching Conjuring one and maybe then calling it 2:03:18.960 --> 2:03:21.560 a day. By the time you get to the Conjuring 2:03:21.600 --> 2:03:23.560 the Devil that made me do it, you're like, this 2:03:23.640 --> 2:03:28.480 is too much, too much, too much. But we could 2:03:28.480 --> 2:03:31.960 watch Annabelle because that's pretty good. I was not James 2:03:32.000 --> 2:03:35.040 want directed. But this is part of the Wanaverse, part. 2:03:34.880 --> 2:03:37.680 Of the universe. Yeah, exactly. Wow. 2:03:37.880 --> 2:03:40.640 And then he's got the new Aquaman coming out at 2:03:40.720 --> 2:03:42.680 some point, question mark, I don't. 2:03:42.480 --> 2:03:46.320 Know, true well anyway. 2:03:45.040 --> 2:03:48.200 And I love that Lee Wandell, Like I really enjoyed 2:03:48.200 --> 2:03:52.040 the Invisible Man. I didn't realize that it was Adam 2:03:52.040 --> 2:03:56.120 from Saul question why? Good shit. Also, they're such good 2:03:56.160 --> 2:03:59.840 friends that Lee Wannell had a cameo in Aquaman. Oh 2:04:00.080 --> 2:04:00.600 is that cute? 2:04:00.680 --> 2:04:03.200 That is very cute. I like that they're still friends. 2:04:03.680 --> 2:04:09.720 It's cute. Okay, Well, Caitlin, thank you for talking about 2:04:09.760 --> 2:04:11.760 Saw with me for my birthday. I love Saw. 2:04:12.320 --> 2:04:14.760 Hey, happy belated birthday. 2:04:15.000 --> 2:04:18.640 It's it's over now, but look but but but I 2:04:18.720 --> 2:04:23.360 live on until Jigsaw gets me. What an amazing movie. 2:04:23.640 --> 2:04:26.640 I had a great time listeners. We hope you had 2:04:26.680 --> 2:04:29.000 a good time, because we sure did. 2:04:30.000 --> 2:04:31.200 We sure did. 2:04:32.640 --> 2:04:35.120 Please found off in the comments with what I'm sure 2:04:35.600 --> 2:04:39.800 was me getting canon incorrect. Let's discuss if anyone has 2:04:39.800 --> 2:04:42.600 a baby Jigsaw doll. I do have buyer's remorse for 2:04:42.720 --> 2:04:43.440 not getting it. 2:04:44.800 --> 2:04:46.760 Wait does such a thing exist already? 2:04:47.400 --> 2:04:52.560 Some sicko on Etsy made baby Jigsaw and I failed 2:04:52.560 --> 2:04:54.320 to buy it, and then when I went to check, 2:04:55.080 --> 2:04:57.600 someone else, bafflingly had purchased it. 2:04:57.680 --> 2:05:00.480 So it was just like a one time one done 2:05:00.760 --> 2:05:01.520 and want it done. 2:05:01.640 --> 2:05:07.600 An independent creator, an artist made baby Jigsaw and I 2:05:07.760 --> 2:05:09.440 fucked up, and I was like I would be afraid 2:05:09.440 --> 2:05:11.200 of that, which I would have been, but it would 2:05:11.200 --> 2:05:11.920 have been nice to have. 2:05:12.520 --> 2:05:19.960 Wow, I know, I know. Okay, that is the end? 2:05:20.480 --> 2:05:23.840 Uh or that's where we're cutting out of the Matreon episode. 2:05:24.000 --> 2:05:27.320 Kaeln Yeah, Jamie, Oh wait how much how much time 2:05:27.360 --> 2:05:28.520 do we have? Less? 2:05:28.640 --> 2:05:30.920 We're definitely over two hours? 2:05:31.320 --> 2:05:32.120 No? 2:05:32.120 --> 2:05:39.640 No oh, no, here comes someone. Hi, it's me No Jigsaw. 2:05:39.880 --> 2:05:43.000 No wait, Jigsaw, just make sure first before you kill us. 2:05:43.280 --> 2:05:47.520 Please subscribe to the Matreon. Please cut a patreon dot 2:05:47.560 --> 2:05:49.840 com slash bectl cass if you enjoyed this episode and 2:05:49.920 --> 2:05:53.120 get over one hundred and fifty bonus episodes not available 2:05:53.160 --> 2:05:55.400 on the main feed for the low price of five 2:05:55.440 --> 2:05:59.120 dollars a month. Jigsaw please oh consider it. 2:05:59.640 --> 2:06:04.120 But but since the episode was over two hours long, 2:06:04.800 --> 2:06:07.640 guess what what? Game over? 2:06:09.240 --> 2:06:12.960 Swam Bye Bye. 2:06:25.280 --> 2:06:28.600 The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by 2:06:28.640 --> 2:06:32.520 Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited 2:06:32.640 --> 2:06:35.800 by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike 2:06:35.920 --> 2:06:40.280 Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo in merch 2:06:40.440 --> 2:06:43.400 is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to 2:06:43.440 --> 2:06:47.840 Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit 2:06:47.880 --> 2:06:49.480 linktree slash Bechdel Cast