1
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:02,160
Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.

2
00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,680
Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

3
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,440
Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they

4
00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:13,960
Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zephy Beast, start changing it

5
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,040
Speaker 2: with the Bechdel Cast.

6
00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,560
Speaker 3: Jamie, let's play a game.

7
00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,800
Speaker 1: What the game is? I just woke up. I don't

8
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:25,239
Speaker 1: know where.

9
00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,320
Speaker 3: You have to play the game and play by all

10
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,960
Speaker 3: the rules. And the game that you're playing is releasing

11
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:39,560
Speaker 3: a Matreon episode about Saw, which will be the inciting

12
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,000
Speaker 3: incident that we have to cover all the rest of

13
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,680
Speaker 3: the Saw movies on the Bechdel Cast. And if we

14
00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:51,040
Speaker 3: don't do that within six months, jicks I will kill us.

15
00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,160
Speaker 1: Usually, I feel like if there's one thing Jigsaw loves

16
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,600
Speaker 1: is to chop off a leg. It's his favorite. It's

17
00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,480
Speaker 1: one of you, it's one of his favorites. Welcome to

18
00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,920
Speaker 1: the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jigsaw, Jamie whoa.

19
00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,880
Speaker 3: My name is Caitlin Sawante.

20
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 2: WHOA?

21
00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,160
Speaker 1: No, I like it, Sae. Let's let's fucking go.

22
00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:16,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it.

23
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,160
Speaker 1: And it's true. Today we're playing a game, the game

24
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 1: being unlocking a Matreon episode.

25
00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,440
Speaker 3: Because the way that the characters and Saw movies have

26
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:30,240
Speaker 3: to unlock little chains and and shackles and boxes.

27
00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,000
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, we do this every so often. And

28
00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,560
Speaker 1: if you enjoy this episode, it's just Caitlin and I

29
00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,720
Speaker 1: were talking about Saw. Obviously. It was recorded last year

30
00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,960
Speaker 1: obviously obviously, And if you like the sort of like

31
00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,000
Speaker 1: more casual tone of this episode, that's what you can

32
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:58,160
Speaker 1: expect from our Matreon hot plug incoming. Yes, we have

33
00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:03,800
Speaker 1: a Matreon Patreona slash Bechtel cast where every month Caitlin

34
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:08,000
Speaker 1: and I based on a theme that always definitely makes

35
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:12,480
Speaker 1: a lot of sense. We talk about two movies. So

36
00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,680
Speaker 1: if you go over there right now and you enjoyed

37
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,919
Speaker 1: this episode, you can go and get over one hundred

38
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 1: and fifty episodes that are not on our main feed.

39
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,519
Speaker 1: And it's only five bucks a month. Come on, a bargain,

40
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:26,320
Speaker 1: Come on.

41
00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,520
Speaker 3: So, yes, this is our Saw episode that we released

42
00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 3: around two years ago. But since two oh my goodness,

43
00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,120
Speaker 3: it was your birthday. You did it for your birthday

44
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,920
Speaker 3: month in August. I believe I was right to coming

45
00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:41,840
Speaker 3: up on two years ago.

46
00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, so quickly, before we get to the episode, let's

47
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,519
Speaker 1: do a little bit of a housekeeping. This episode is

48
00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,120
Speaker 1: a little more informal, So in case you haven't listened

49
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,440
Speaker 1: to the show before, weird place to start, but hey, welcome,

50
00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,600
Speaker 1: This is our podcast where we talk about your favorite

51
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,519
Speaker 1: movies using an intersection feminist lens, but this time it's

52
00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,200
Speaker 1: like a spiky little lens that could kill you.

53
00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:13,080
Speaker 3: Oh no, yeah, oh no. The Saw test, where if

54
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:18,919
Speaker 3: you don't play jigsauce game, he'll chop off your limbs.

55
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, he'll do something really terrible to you because he

56
00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,920
Speaker 1: is not an ally, which is actually true. I feel

57
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,320
Speaker 1: like I've seen people be like, actually, Jigsaw is an

58
00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,960
Speaker 1: ally because he hired a woman, and you're like, that's

59
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:39,640
Speaker 1: not how that works. Jigsaw is lawless, he's anti everyone. Yes,

60
00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,480
Speaker 1: he's anarchy, he's chaos.

61
00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,720
Speaker 3: It's true. So Jigsaw plays by the Saw test. We

62
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,600
Speaker 3: play by the Bechdel test, except we don't even really

63
00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,840
Speaker 3: do that except for talk about it for three minutes

64
00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,360
Speaker 3: every episode, and then the rest of the time is

65
00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,960
Speaker 3: us having serious discourse but.

66
00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 1: Also goofing sorriest discourse.

67
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,400
Speaker 3: Whoa, oh my gosh.

68
00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,120
Speaker 1: What if Jigsaw had an air horn? That would be

69
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,680
Speaker 1: so that would have to be like and then we

70
00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,160
Speaker 1: can't make any more movies, if we give Jigsaw, okay, anyways,

71
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:12,120
Speaker 1: what's the Bechdel test.

72
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,080
Speaker 3: It's a media metric sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test

73
00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,320
Speaker 3: that first appeared in queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel's comic in

74
00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,680
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty five, Dikes to Watch out For And it

75
00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,480
Speaker 3: was intended as a bit as a goof. And there

76
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,800
Speaker 3: are many versions of the test. The one that we

77
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,599
Speaker 3: use is this, do two characters of a marginalized gender

78
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,080
Speaker 3: have names? Do those characters speak to each other? And

79
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,640
Speaker 3: is there conversation about something other than a man? And

80
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,760
Speaker 3: then another little caveat we give is is it a

81
00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 3: narratively meaningful conversation which we prefer over like throwaway dialogue

82
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,360
Speaker 3: that might pass the Bechdel test?

83
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,800
Speaker 1: And that's where they get you, and that's where they

84
00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,799
Speaker 1: get you. And we'll leave it at that. But before

85
00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,840
Speaker 1: we cut to the episode, because and I are very

86
00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:05,920
Speaker 1: invested in Saw, Yeah, the franchise spoiler alert, we're talking

87
00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,400
Speaker 1: about Saw because we really like it and it's been

88
00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:13,200
Speaker 1: almost two years, so let's just like rapid fire some

89
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:14,960
Speaker 1: Saw updates. I think the first thing that comes to

90
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,560
Speaker 1: mind is we just saw Saw the musical together that's right.

91
00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,520
Speaker 3: I saw the musical on Broadway, and by Broadway, I

92
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,320
Speaker 3: mean a very small theater in Los Angeles, California. Ever

93
00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:24,920
Speaker 3: heard of it?

94
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,120
Speaker 1: Very small space, impossible to pe mid show.

95
00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,400
Speaker 3: Yes, And that's why I missed the last like twenty

96
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:34,920
Speaker 3: minutes of the show because I had to piece about

97
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,599
Speaker 3: I was so close to pissing my pants and so

98
00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,640
Speaker 3: I had to like dive over a row of people

99
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 3: as like the show's climax was climaxing.

100
00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,920
Speaker 1: And and it was climaxing because it was a very horny.

101
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,960
Speaker 1: It was a parody musical, so it's like horny and

102
00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 1: queer and like it was great.

103
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,960
Speaker 3: I highly recommend if you live in LA. It goes

104
00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,600
Speaker 3: up in New York, and I believe a few other

105
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,240
Speaker 3: cities around the US.

106
00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,839
Speaker 1: San Diego, like it's it seems to be making the rounds.

107
00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,400
Speaker 1: If it's still making the rounds and it's in your town,

108
00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,719
Speaker 1: you gotta go see saw the musical.

109
00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,159
Speaker 3: And I need to see it again because again I

110
00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,599
Speaker 3: missed the last twenty minutes because I had to go pee,

111
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,800
Speaker 3: and then I didn't feel comfortable coming back in because

112
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,320
Speaker 3: I felt like it would have been disruptive to the show.

113
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,880
Speaker 3: Because it was a rather small theater. So I was like, well,

114
00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:26,480
Speaker 3: I'll just have to guess at what happens. I'm guessing

115
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,200
Speaker 3: someone saw the off.

116
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't severely deviate from the narrative, but like,

117
00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,920
Speaker 1: don't take my word for it. Ye, Seesaw the musical again,

118
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,520
Speaker 1: Seesaw the Musical. Okay, your turn for a Saw update.

119
00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,600
Speaker 3: Okay. I dressed up as jig Saw for Halloween. We

120
00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,839
Speaker 3: did you the most recent Halloween that we had brag. Oh,

121
00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,719
Speaker 3: and I went to a party that was within bicycling

122
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:56,320
Speaker 3: distance of my apartment, so I wasn't a tricycle and

123
00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,120
Speaker 3: that was my horrible blunder. But I did write a

124
00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,880
Speaker 3: bicycle to the party. So I'm like, rolling up as Jigsaw.

125
00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 1: I did not know that. That's so funny. Yeah, I forgot.

126
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,640
Speaker 1: I forgot because didn't we pick you up from that party?

127
00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:14,320
Speaker 1: Or I'm trying to remember.

128
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,960
Speaker 3: It was a different one. Wow, because we just I

129
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,280
Speaker 3: get invited to so many freaking parties.

130
00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:25,080
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, my others Saw update is that And you

131
00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,160
Speaker 4: can watch it right now in HBO Max, unless by

132
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 4: the time you listen to this HPO Max has.

133
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 1: Deleted more stuff. But I was a writer and producer

134
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,800
Speaker 1: on a show called Teenage Ethanasia. It's a great show,

135
00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,560
Speaker 1: two great seasons, and in our second season, I pitched

136
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:46,040
Speaker 1: and successfully executed a character named jug Saw. And I

137
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,280
Speaker 1: think by the name you can sort of guess what

138
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,280
Speaker 1: Jugsaw's whole deal is, girl.

139
00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,920
Speaker 3: Jigsaw jug is in like jugs is in, big old hawkers.

140
00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,560
Speaker 1: Okay, big old honkers. Yeah, I mean I would say,

141
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,120
Speaker 1: I can't say anything else. I refuse to say anything else.

142
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,200
Speaker 1: Let me just grab the name of the episode in

143
00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,120
Speaker 1: case you need to go watch jug Saw. She has

144
00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,360
Speaker 1: a whole story. Come on, trust me, we've been doing

145
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,720
Speaker 1: this podcast. You think I'm not gonna write Jugsaw a

146
00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,160
Speaker 1: complicated backstory and a problem with her mother, of course

147
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:22,600
Speaker 1: I am.

148
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,720
Speaker 3: Of course, from now on, all stories are about Jugsaws

149
00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:29,520
Speaker 3: and their moms.

150
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,480
Speaker 1: And their moms. It's drama. Okay. So the name of

151
00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:40,200
Speaker 1: it is Viva la Flappanista, Season two, episode six of

152
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,400
Speaker 1: Teenage Euthanasia. Go check it out. Amazing, and just check

153
00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,120
Speaker 1: out the whole show. It's fun. We got canceled.

154
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,520
Speaker 3: That's fine, Sorry about it?

155
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,520
Speaker 1: Whatever the Saw episode? Do you have any other Saw updates?

156
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:54,400
Speaker 3: I have two?

157
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:56,880
Speaker 1: Oh? Okay, Well, I guess we also didn't talk about

158
00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:57,400
Speaker 1: Saw X.

159
00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,880
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's one of them. So since this episode

160
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,800
Speaker 3: was released on the Matreon, Saw X aka Saw ten

161
00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,400
Speaker 3: came out. We both saw in theaters, not together unfortunately

162
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,439
Speaker 3: saw We saw Saw X.

163
00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,920
Speaker 1: Now what did you? I don't remember your review of

164
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:16,640
Speaker 1: Saw X.

165
00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,840
Speaker 3: I thought it was bad, but I still loved every

166
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,040
Speaker 3: second of it. Like it was not a well written movie.

167
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,640
Speaker 3: I think it was one of the weaker installments in

168
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:30,840
Speaker 3: the French highs. But I did pay money. Well, no,

169
00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,480
Speaker 3: I probably didn't pay money. I went to see it

170
00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,439
Speaker 3: with my amc A list stubs membership. I know I

171
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,000
Speaker 3: always because we come to this place for Saw for magic.

172
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,720
Speaker 1: You know, these days Nicole's watching She's watching Austin Butler Elvis.

173
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,040
Speaker 1: I saw her watching Lady Gaga Star is born the

174
00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,079
Speaker 1: other day. Oh they have even more. They just keep

175
00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 1: switching out her movies. WHOA Okay, I also saw Saw X.

176
00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:59,880
Speaker 1: I also thought it was maybe not so awesome, sauce

177
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:05,080
Speaker 1: so like, but like a not Saw. Some Saw movie

178
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,240
Speaker 1: is still better than or. I'm gonna enjoy myself more

179
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,560
Speaker 1: than ninety percent of movies because it's just really fun

180
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 1: to like show up in a movie rubbing your hands together,

181
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 1: being like, now, what is he gonna get up to?

182
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,679
Speaker 1: And it's always something. He's always gonna get it up

183
00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,080
Speaker 1: to something. So I thought it was good conclusion. I

184
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,640
Speaker 1: thought it was an awesome, perfect movie. I love Tobin Bell.

185
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,320
Speaker 1: I love that he's still sawing after all these years.

186
00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 1: He's eighty one. Whoa yeah, so he is like he

187
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,080
Speaker 1: is in it to win it. I hope we have

188
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,319
Speaker 1: a lot more Saw movies with Tobin Bell. Same, okay,

189
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:43,800
Speaker 1: do you have any more? That's all my songs?

190
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,000
Speaker 3: It's okay, yes, my final one is that. So our

191
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,320
Speaker 3: mutual friend Briant and I often watch movies together and

192
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,760
Speaker 3: we kept being like, should we watch a Saw movie?

193
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,200
Speaker 3: And we would go and see if it was available

194
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,240
Speaker 3: to stream anymore, and most of them are only available

195
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,280
Speaker 3: to rent, and so you pay three ninety nine to

196
00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,080
Speaker 3: rent it. We're like, Okay, there's got to be a

197
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,800
Speaker 3: more cost effective way to do this, because I don't

198
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,880
Speaker 3: want to spend three ninety nine on like ten Saw movies.

199
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:13,880
Speaker 3: So what I did instead is I bought one of

200
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,440
Speaker 3: those like Blu Ray bundles with the first eight Saw

201
00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,079
Speaker 3: movies on Blu Ray, and it was.

202
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:22,679
Speaker 1: Only like it just makes sense.

203
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:27,920
Speaker 3: It was like twelve dollars, So that's violent. I know

204
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,680
Speaker 3: it's kind of an insult to the Saw franchise, but

205
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,240
Speaker 3: I made the investment of a lifetime and bought this

206
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,080
Speaker 3: eight Saw movie bundle on Blu Ray, and Brian and

207
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:41,559
Speaker 3: I are working our way through it. You're welcome to

208
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:42,959
Speaker 3: join us at any time.

209
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,360
Speaker 1: Jamie, please. I think you're out of town. I think

210
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,280
Speaker 1: I was out of town when that started. Where did

211
00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:48,040
Speaker 1: you guys leave off?

212
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 3: Well, you have so far only watched Saw two together.

213
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 3: Oh so there's a lot.

214
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,480
Speaker 1: Oh oh so the doors wide open?

215
00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:00,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, until Jigsaw slams it says.

216
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:05,319
Speaker 1: Game over Sam, Sam, Okay, well, yeah, I'm in. I'm

217
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,560
Speaker 1: joining in Saw three a second your home.

218
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 3: Okay, great, I can't wait. But yeah, those are all

219
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:15,880
Speaker 3: my Saw updates. And so what we also do generally

220
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,640
Speaker 3: when we release a Matreon episode to the main feed

221
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,439
Speaker 3: is we'll just kind of edit it a bit, because

222
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,760
Speaker 3: we're sometimes matreoning out a little too hard in different

223
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:28,839
Speaker 3: points of the episodes.

224
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,560
Speaker 1: A lot of sidebars, not like what we've been doing

225
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,760
Speaker 1: for the last ten minutes, which is all very on topic,

226
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:35,960
Speaker 1: all feminism.

227
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,800
Speaker 3: Well, it's on topic for Saw at least, So yes,

228
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,160
Speaker 3: we'll edit out some chunks here and there. Some of

229
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,839
Speaker 3: it's like references to something that's like a year or

230
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,920
Speaker 3: too old that kind of dates the episode, so I

231
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:49,760
Speaker 3: kind of I try to get rid of as much

232
00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,280
Speaker 3: of that as I can. So I cut out a

233
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,880
Speaker 3: little bit at the beginning where I pretend to be

234
00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,800
Speaker 3: Jigsaw and I say that we have two hours to

235
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,880
Speaker 3: finish the episode, or else the episode will be too

236
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:06,640
Speaker 3: long and the consequences will be dire. So when you

237
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,079
Speaker 3: hear references to that later on, that is me doing

238
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:12,520
Speaker 3: that hilarious little bit.

239
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,160
Speaker 1: Why don't you just do it now?

240
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:19,439
Speaker 3: Well, okay, tell us Jamie what it's me Jigsaw.

241
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:24,600
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm also Jigsaw, but but you're in charge.

242
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,560
Speaker 3: And it's also we're playing the game for ourselves. Oh,

243
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,880
Speaker 3: we have to complete this episode within two hours, or

244
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,120
Speaker 3: else the episode will be too long and it might

245
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,160
Speaker 3: be annoying for some listeners.

246
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,080
Speaker 1: Oh no, we've never made an episode too long. It

247
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:48,160
Speaker 1: will be a new experience. Yeah, and we better get started.

248
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, we better. Oh and then right when we cut in,

249
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:56,520
Speaker 3: is us talking I guess questioning if Saw one is

250
00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,320
Speaker 3: actually a good movie or not. So this is where

251
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,600
Speaker 3: we will I know, how dare we even question it?

252
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,000
Speaker 1: That's as close as we get to being edge lords.

253
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,599
Speaker 1: We're like, is I have one even good? I regret it?

254
00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:10,280
Speaker 1: I regret it.

255
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 3: Yeah it's great, and you'll hear us say many things

256
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,760
Speaker 3: to that effect. But yeah, that's where we cut in.

257
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 3: So enjoy the episode.

258
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,280
Speaker 1: Saw is Oh no, now I'm getting nervous. I was like,

259
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,680
Speaker 1: I thought the first Saw was like pretty well written, Yes,

260
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,880
Speaker 1: but I refuse to acknowledge any of the plot holes

261
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:42,280
Speaker 1: in Saw.

262
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,360
Speaker 3: Okay, here are my gripes with the writing of Saw,

263
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 3: although I think most of my gripes have to do

264
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,920
Speaker 3: with the acting, which is atrocious from most of the

265
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:55,600
Speaker 3: characters or the actors.

266
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,760
Speaker 1: Who is your least who is your least fing? I mean,

267
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,280
Speaker 1: I feel like we we have to make an exception

268
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 1: there for the legend the icon Tobin Bell as Jigsaw.

269
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,920
Speaker 1: His performance is kind of untouchable, sure, and I can't

270
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,840
Speaker 1: really be hearing anything negative about it, But everyone else

271
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,800
Speaker 1: is doing a horrible job. Who do you think is

272
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:16,720
Speaker 1: doing the worst job.

273
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,120
Speaker 3: I think the guy who is clearly not an actor

274
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,760
Speaker 3: and who co wrote this screen or wrote.

275
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,280
Speaker 1: The screenplay Lee Wannell, Yes, I think he's doing his

276
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 1: house we Stanell Leannel. But yeah, he is not very

277
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 1: He's not a very good actor, is he.

278
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,200
Speaker 3: He's not. But Carrie, you will.

279
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:44,040
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Elle. I listened to the hat. I

280
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,240
Speaker 1: didn't finish it. I'll be full disclosure, but I listened

281
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: to Uh. I watched this movie last week and then

282
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:55,320
Speaker 1: I watched half of it with the commentary track with

283
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,360
Speaker 1: Lee Wannell and James Wan And it's so cute because

284
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,640
Speaker 1: they're such good friends. But they say Harry el's ellis,

285
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,080
Speaker 1: elsls ols, wait os, but they're Australian, so it could

286
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,440
Speaker 1: be a pronunciation thing. It tripped right off the tongue

287
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,440
Speaker 1: for them. It was very easy for them. They're like,

288
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,560
Speaker 1: carry elwis. The thing about him is he's really British.

289
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,560
Speaker 3: And that's true. And you can tell that he's a

290
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,680
Speaker 3: British person because he's letting his accent slip through on

291
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:21,000
Speaker 3: almost every word.

292
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 1: Oh, they're fighting for their lives with the accents. I

293
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,800
Speaker 1: don't know why they I don't know why they had

294
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,320
Speaker 1: to be canonically American, because Lee Wennell is Australian and

295
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,080
Speaker 1: once you know that, you're just like, oh, he's like

296
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,320
Speaker 1: criking out the whole time, like just let them speak

297
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 1: in their natural accents. And it's so wild because you

298
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,000
Speaker 1: know that, like Lee Wanne literally made that choice for

299
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 1: them on purpose. Yeah, they were young though, Like it's

300
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,480
Speaker 1: so wild. Like James Wan is a like a middle

301
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,920
Speaker 1: schooler when he directs his he's so like he's like

302
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:55,960
Speaker 1: twenty six, but that's like wild.

303
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like pretty fresh out of film school, right

304
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,760
Speaker 3: because they because James wan and Lee Wonnell, I feel

305
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 3: like also there's like.

306
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,080
Speaker 1: Is it wonle Wannel? Is it stanyel Wannel at all?

307
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 3: Well, I'm trying to do like a benefit thing where

308
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,320
Speaker 3: it's like love that we're kind of marrying the two

309
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:20,480
Speaker 3: names together as just like Wonnle love that. Flee okay hello,

310
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 3: oh and Flee freaking loved it too.

311
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,960
Speaker 1: And you know that's gonna that that's gonna be loud

312
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,760
Speaker 1: and that's gonna pick up. Yeah, you know that. Sorry,

313
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,239
Speaker 1: he's stressed out because there's been someone next door just

314
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,399
Speaker 1: absolutely hammering something for about six days.

315
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:41,159
Speaker 3: Do you think it's someone building a saw room? Do

316
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,440
Speaker 3: you think it's Jigsaw's production designer? That is like one

317
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,359
Speaker 3: of my I'm sure that there's either a very good

318
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 3: or very horrible sketch about that somewhere, like who's setting

319
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:53,640
Speaker 3: up Jigsaw's traps?

320
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 1: You know that they tried that on Mad TV. I

321
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,640
Speaker 1: would I would bet money on it.

322
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 3: And if not, Jamie, you just wrote a sketch.

323
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,879
Speaker 1: Oh god, it's almost like it was almost too easy.

324
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,920
Speaker 1: But yes, they're so young when they make this movie.

325
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:13,000
Speaker 1: I just think it's beautiful to set James Wand on

326
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,679
Speaker 1: his journey to you know, being one of my favorite

327
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:17,560
Speaker 1: directors ever.

328
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 3: He Oh my gosh, he's the best. What was the

329
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 3: other movie of his we covered on the show, Aquaman?

330
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I always forget that that was his movie.

331
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 1: Me too. I meant, I always forget that he's Aquaman man.

332
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,480
Speaker 1: But he is Aquaman man. But but yeah, he Okay,

333
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:40,399
Speaker 1: so his directorial resume is pretty wild. I'm just gonna

334
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:45,600
Speaker 1: rattle some stuff off please Saw Saw three Okay, Okay,

335
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 1: he only directed Saw and Saw three, which not coincidentally

336
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:55,359
Speaker 1: are ones. Saw two is pretty iconic as well. Saw

337
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,640
Speaker 1: one through three are good, and then so the rest

338
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 1: are also good.

339
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 3: I've I'll get into this when we talk about our

340
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:09,920
Speaker 3: histories with the Saw franchise. But I've seen way more

341
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 3: Saw movies than you might expect.

342
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:13,440
Speaker 1: I'm very excited.

343
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,160
Speaker 3: I'll tell the full story.

344
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:20,320
Speaker 1: Oh I can't wait. But okay, so sorry, Saw Saw three, Insidious,

345
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,440
Speaker 1: The Conjuring, in Citious, Chapter two, Furious Seven, question Mark,

346
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 1: The Conjuring Too.

347
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,639
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Fast and the Furious Seven. He directed one

348
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 3: of the Fast and the Furious movies.

349
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 1: I did not know that. Yeah, I knew Aquaman, I

350
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,680
Speaker 1: knew the Conjuring franchises. All him. Malignant one of our

351
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,880
Speaker 1: faves from last year, Maignant. It was the we got

352
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 1: a comfortableness of twenty twenty one one. Yeah, I think

353
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,239
Speaker 1: we should cover that this October. Malignant was kind of

354
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 1: perfect film critible. I didn't really have any negative thoughts. Well,

355
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 1: actually I had a lot of negative thought, but like

356
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 1: in a good way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't have

357
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,320
Speaker 1: a single critical thought. I was like, all I thought.

358
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 1: All I thought on a loop was he did it again? Anyways?

359
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 1: But enough about how I was essayam with James Wand

360
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,159
Speaker 1: even though I forgot one of his biggest movies in

361
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 1: the space of the last minute. What's your history with

362
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,400
Speaker 1: the Saw franchise?

363
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 3: Okay, I saw Saw Oh, I used to make a joke,

364
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,919
Speaker 3: and this might even be something that if I like

365
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 3: dug through my Twitter I could find. But it's like

366
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 3: a little dialogue where someone says, like not a little

367
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,679
Speaker 3: blog like person a sees I've seen Saw too, And

368
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 3: then I respond by saying, I saw Saw too too.

369
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: Okay, that's good.

370
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 3: That's a good joke if I do say so myself. Okay,

371
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 3: So there's no way around it. That joke rules. I

372
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,400
Speaker 3: saw Saw right when it came out. I don't think

373
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,400
Speaker 3: in theaters though, But like is ah, but I don't

374
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,400
Speaker 3: remember it was two thousand and four. What month did

375
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:03,439
Speaker 3: it come out.

376
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 1: Let's see, let's see.

377
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 3: It was October. I think it was like Halloween season.

378
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 1: Yea makes sense. It's pretty scary. I mean I would

379
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 1: say it, yeah, pretty scary.

380
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 3: So I would have just started college. I would have

381
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 3: been like a month into college, and I feel like

382
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 3: I was like probably too stressed out to go to

383
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 3: the movies. So I don't think I saw it in

384
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 3: the theaters. I think I would have remembered that.

385
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I don't think that. I don't think

386
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 1: that this movie would have calmed you down.

387
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 3: No, but I saw it on DVD as soon as

388
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 3: it came out on DVD, probably a few months later,

389
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 3: because I remember like all the buzz about it, and

390
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 3: so I saw it and I remember thinking the twist

391
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 3: at the very end when Jigsaw gets up off the

392
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 3: floor the dead body you thought was a dead body

393
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 3: the whole time he starts to stand up. I was like, Oh,

394
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 3: my freaking gosh, the biggest whist in cinema history.

395
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: We're not saying, oh my freaking god, it was. It

396
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 1: is good. It's one of the it's one of my

397
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: favorite twists ever.

398
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,159
Speaker 3: It's still unexpected. It's it's truly Do.

399
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: You think Tobin Bell was in the room the whole time?

400
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: Is he that good? Oh?

401
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm committing to this. I am in character

402
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 3: all It's he's like method acting.

403
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: This may have been in nine thousand movies, but his

404
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: most iconic role is Saw. Interestingly, he lives in Massachusetts.

405
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 1: He's like the king of a town in Massachusetts. Whoa

406
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: and then they have to like fly him out. They're like, oh,

407
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: you want Jigsaw. He just lives in whatever Jigsaw mansion

408
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 1: in Massachusetts. One of this is this information comes from

409
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: a very credible source aka my brother's friend.

410
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,919
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, okay, I.

411
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 1: Was talking to my brother cashing up with my brother's friend.

412
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 1: Side note, my brother's friends are getting hot. Don't love that?

413
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah.

414
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 1: But but he was like, did you know that Jigsaw

415
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 1: is local? And I was like, relevant to my interests?

416
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: So continue?

417
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 3: Okay. So I saw Saw shortly after it was released,

418
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 3: and I remember thinking it was pretty awesome, especially oh

419
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 3: my gosh, like the music is Jigsaw's standing up and

420
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 3: it's like ding d D.

421
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 5: D D D.

422
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:23,959
Speaker 3: Iconic.

423
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: John Williams could never in his life John Williams found

424
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: dead in a ditch after hearing it being from Saw. Unbelievable.

425
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 3: So I took it upon myself to continue to see

426
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 3: the Saw movies. I'm not sure if I ever saw

427
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 3: any of them in theaters, but there was a span

428
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 3: of time where I was, I mean, and it was

429
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 3: a long time, and longer than maybe anyone else was

430
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 3: getting Netflix DVDs delivered to their mailbox.

431
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: Yes, that's true. You were getting Netflix DVD's while this

432
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: show was airing.

433
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I since stopped, but I was getting them well

434
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 3: into probably like twenty sixteen. I mean, you know, Blessed

435
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, maybe even so blessed. I saw Saw two, two,

436
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 3: and saw three, and saw four and saw five. I

437
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: think I stopped at five.

438
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: I think I stopped at six, but I but then

439
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: I was reading the description for six, and I was like,

440
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: honestly I could have seen this. But also right, my

441
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: recall after three gets a little fuzzy. I had to

442
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: read through some of the things. And then did you

443
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: see Spiral? I did not watch Spiral.

444
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 3: I did not see Spiral. I wanted to, but it

445
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 3: came and went in theaters in like a blip, and

446
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:48,479
Speaker 3: I completely missed it.

447
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: And it was also, I think, still not a great

448
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: I think it came out like right before people were

449
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: actually comfortable going back to movie theaters. Well maybe that's

450
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: I think it was like there was a COVID timing

451
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: where they are just such a streaming kind of thing.

452
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: I didn't watch it. I heard its actually very very good,

453
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: but I read I read a piece about it today

454
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: and now I'm like, oh, I do I have so

455
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: many SAW tabs open right now? My god. I read

456
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: an article on a screen rant that I thought was

457
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: quite good by a writer named Cathol Gunning. Also a

458
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: great name, but I guess that the deal with Spiral,

459
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: my understanding is a Jigsaw copycat killer, and they're trying

460
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: to flip the franchise so that this new copycat killer

461
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: is targeting cops, which is a good modern like I think,

462
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: a better you know take. But then but in doing so,

463
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: and this is a small gripe, I don't think it's

464
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: a bad thing that Spiral is killing cops. And you

465
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: can put me on the record there, but but basically

466
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: it was done with the ethos of like, well, Jigsaw

467
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: never killed I'm like Jigsaw spent whole movies killing cops.

468
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: Jigsaw tortured detective Donnie Wahlberg, corrupt cop.

469
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 3: Jigsaw slashes the throat of Danny Glover cop.

470
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: Jigsaw famously does not like cops. Jigsaw said a cap

471
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: but he also said all innocent people are bastards also,

472
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: so he's just sort of like, he's like, all cops

473
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: are bastards, but only because they fall under the umbrella

474
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: of people. All people are apab except my wife. Okay,

475
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: so kind of Jigsaw's approach.

476
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 3: So I saw so many of the saws up to

477
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 3: five maybe six, because I remember being like Caitlin, what

478
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 3: are you even doing, but I kept watching them because

479
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 3: each Saw movie has the most unexpected twist you've ever

480
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 3: seen in any movie.

481
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 1: Like they just know wow, they keep doing it. I

482
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 1: know they keep movie after and like the movies do get.

483
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 3: Worse and worse.

484
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: Sure, as with any franchise I like, horror franchises are

485
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: commonly associated as often getting much worse and more convoluted,

486
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: But I don't think it gets as bad. If we're

487
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: doing pound for pound next to other horror franchises, it

488
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: could have been much worse.

489
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 3: I mean the Halloween franchise, Oh my God, the most

490
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 3: recent two after they tried to reboot it. The most

491
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 3: recent Halloween movie is one of the worst movies I've

492
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: ever seen in my entire life.

493
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: I didn't see the second one. I thought the first

494
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: one was fine and I was like, oh, it's I liked.

495
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: I liked hearing Jamie Lee Curtis say trauma. And other

496
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: than that, I was and I love Danny McBride right,

497
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: I love David Gordon Green, and I love Judy Greer,

498
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: but I didn't like the movie.

499
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 3: That one was like okay ish to me, but the

500
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 3: second one one in their reboot series, Pep Peepee pooh pooh.

501
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, disappointing, and there's still one more and no

502
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: one's got to see it.

503
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 3: But Saw, even though the storytelling, you know, gets a

504
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 3: bit wonky, you know, the movies decline in quality, the

505
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 3: quality of the twists stays top notch, a great So

506
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 3: I felt compelled to keep watching Saw movies because I

507
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 3: was like, oh my gosh, there's no way they're going

508
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 3: to top this twist in the movie prior to this one,

509
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 3: and then they do. It's just like, oh, so I

510
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 3: am a Although I hadn't seen the first Saw since

511
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 3: like two thousand and five, and I remembered very little

512
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 3: about it except for Jigsaw standing up at the very

513
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 3: end being like, hey, it's me Grabe over and then

514
00:28:52,880 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: you're like, so that in a very long story, is

515
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 3: my history with the sawt franchise, Jamie, what about you?

516
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: Oh? I was a late comer to the Saw franchise.

517
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: I was not I mean, as I've said on the

518
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: show before, I was not a horror girl growing up.

519
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: I've become a horror girl as an adult. My franchise.

520
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: So I only had like, I don't know what this

521
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: logic was, but I only had room for one horror

522
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: franchise in my formative years. Sure, and I was a

523
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: Final Destination girl. I didn't have room for Saw. It

524
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: was a hardline final Destination girl. Started seeing them with

525
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: Final Destination three, iconically the Tanning Bed one, Slash, the

526
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: roller Coaster one. It's awesome. And then I proceeded to

527
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,479
Speaker 1: see the rest in theaters and loved those movies. Did

528
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: they hold up not even a little bit, nowhere close

529
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: to Saw, I will say, but there was one my

530
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: first serious relationship in high school, Thank you so much.

531
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: So it'd been in two thousand and nine or ten,

532
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: and story time, I've probably told you this story before

533
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: and then sometimes I forgot. I'm like, oh, people are

534
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: listening to this, so I do have to say it again.

535
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: So in high school, I worked at a skating rink.

536
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 3: Ice skating or roller skating.

537
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: Ice skating, thus the Sambony culture. Well, also, my dad

538
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: is a hockey reporter. Grew up around Zamponi's a lot

539
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: of formative experiences around Zamboni's. But yeah, I worked at

540
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: the snack bar and then on Friday nights I had

541
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: to work in this skate like high schoolers would hand

542
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: do their stinky shoes and then you had to give

543
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: them skates. And it was all my classmates, and it

544
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: was maybe traumatizing and humiliating because people would really delight

545
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: in giving Jamie their stinky shoes while they were going

546
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: on dates with my crushes, and I had to smell

547
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: their shoes nasty. Anyways, I'm over it though. So anyways,

548
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: had a crush on a boy who his name is Steven.

549
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: I've literally made shows about him. So anyways, he came

550
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: to the skating rink one day and we were not

551
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: yet dating, and he was like very sweet, awkward high

552
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: school boy and like tipped me one dollar and I

553
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: was like, wow, oh my god, what I'm bad at

554
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: this job. And then he was like, hey, I don't know,

555
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: like have you seen the Saw movies? And I was

556
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: like no, I haven't seen them, and he was like,

557
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: oh well. I was just thinking, if you ever want

558
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: to come over my house or something like we can

559
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: watch the Saw movies or I don't know, and I

560
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: was like okay, and then whenever later I went to

561
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: his house and thought he spent five Saw movies, five

562
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: whole Saw movies, no pea breaks getting the nerve up

563
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 1: to kiss me. I was there I got there at like, wait,

564
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: one pm. Yeah, and it was like ten at night.

565
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: And then we finally kissed. But we watched five Saw

566
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: movies in a row. We did take a pee break.

567
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: I was being dramatic, but like, but we wave.

568
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 3: You marathoned five Saw movies in one day.

569
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then and then and then I got a kiss.

570
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 3: I mean, perfect day.

571
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: It was kind of an awesome day in the end. Honestly,

572
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: by the end, I was a little by the time

573
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: he put in because he had all of them on DVD.

574
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: It was a weird Ultimately, it was a weird date,

575
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: but it was very sweet that it took someone five

576
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: Saw movies to give you a little kiss.

577
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: But yeah, it takes me five minutes into a Saw

578
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 3: movie to give someone a kiss these days.

579
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: I mean I would I wouldn't even get to the twist,

580
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: but yeah, in this case. So anyway, I saw all

581
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: five and one day, and then I just kept revisiting

582
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: them over the years. I think I saw six. At

583
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: one point. I definitely fell off the Saw franchise. I

584
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: don't think I'm alone there.

585
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 3: So wait, how many are there?

586
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: Now? Oh? Boy, let's see, because I think that there's

587
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: through They're like the titles are confusing. Wait, let's see. Okay,

588
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: So we have Saws one through six. Then you have

589
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: Saw three D, which is technically Saw seven, and that

590
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: one I don't think i've seen, but i've heard is

591
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: quite bad. Then there's Jigsaw, which is supposed to be

592
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: the worst one and that's like an origin story question Mark.

593
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: And then there's Spiral, which is a post Jigsaw copycat

594
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: killer and that's the one with Chris Rock.

595
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, I don't know. Jigsaw was on my radar

596
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 3: as something that existed.

597
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: He is one of the Hollywood reporters stars to watch.

598
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 3: It was on the you know, like eight Saw movies

599
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 3: that you can't miss. Saw three D. I had no

600
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 3: idea was a thing.

601
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 1: They did the same thing with Final Destination I supposed

602
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: to say Fatal Attraction. What. Yeah, they did the same thing.

603
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: I think that that was just like during the three

604
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: D boom in the early twenty tens, like after Avatar

605
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: came out, they're like, oh, everything successful needs to be

606
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: three D now, and they all kind of sucked, including Avatar.

607
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, So there's Saws one through six, and then

608
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 3: Saw three D, Jigsaw, Spiral. Yeah, so that is nine

609
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 3: Saw movies total.

610
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: In the Sauna verse.

611
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Sauna verse.

612
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: I think it's I hope they make more. They gotta

613
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 1: make more. Sometimes you're like, kill the franchise. Enough is enough.

614
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: I can't imagine getting to a plant like I probably

615
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: won't see them, but I would be sad if they

616
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: stopped making them.

617
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm now tempted to for Halloween this year do

618
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 3: a Saw marathon.

619
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: Ah, that would be so fun. Oh oh, we would

620
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: have what a time. We'd have what a time? We

621
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: watch songs and then we would have to kiss after

622
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,919
Speaker 1: the fifth one, just because I don't know how else

623
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: to act after five Saw movie.

624
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 3: I mean, consistency is important. So yes, I consent, thank you.

625
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, let's let's do it. I'll have a Snathan yay.

626
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: Oh okay, So our history was it's hard, Like, I

627
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: think we'll try to stick to the first movie. There

628
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: are like certain elements of Jigsaw that I feel like

629
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: you can't not discuss further installment because you find out

630
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: I mean Jigsaw. Look, do I agree with the actions

631
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: he took? No? Did he have some points? I think so,

632
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: I think he had some points. Now did he need

633
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: to lash out like that? No, that's I had this

634
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: whole jokey premise that I was going to try to

635
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: start the episode with by being like Jigsaw's male privilege.

636
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: What where does this guy get off thinking he can

637
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: just set up all these elaborate little games that take

638
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: twenty seven days to set up canonically according to the

639
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: production design department, and then start killing people. That's patriarchy

640
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: and actions.

641
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 3: But see, my version of that is like, you know

642
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 3: how like Viola Davis's Instagram feed is just a lot

643
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 3: of like very like inspirational or like mid, hey are

644
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 3: you struggling, Like then remember this these five things to

645
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 3: help you, you know, get through the day, or just like.

646
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: I love very much like Instagram.

647
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 3: It's great, yeah, and it's just very like healing and

648
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 3: like I want to help you. And then Jigsaw, his

649
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 3: whole thing is like he seems to want to help

650
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 3: people or like show them how to be appreciative, but

651
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 3: he's doing it in the most violent way possible, and

652
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's toxic masculinity. You know.

653
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: Literally, he's like he is like I don't see people

654
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 1: practicing gratitude very much, better kill them, Like it's he ultimately,

655
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's we hear at the back at Bechdel

656
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: Cast Industries cannot endorse the actions of one John Kramer,

657
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: Like that is not okay. No, and we want to

658
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: go on the record to say that was not okay

659
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: what John Kramer slash Jigsaw did. But did he look

660
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: good doing it? Kind of indisputably yes, did he sound

661
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 1: good doing it?

662
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Jigsaw's voice.

663
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: Don't get me started. Do doo dooo do doo dooo

664
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: doo doo dooo. Tobin Bell, who plays Jigsaw. Okay, so

665
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: for a Massachusetts local, as we've learned, I want I

666
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: wanted to confirm. I didn't want I didn't want to

667
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: speak out of turn. It's Weymouth, Weymouth, Massachusetts, Okay, A

668
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: good town, A good town, I think. But he so

669
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: he's like one of the he's like an iconic character

670
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: actor who eventually became best known for being Jigsaw, which

671
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: is incredible. But I'm trying to think of another example

672
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: of this where he like came up with a ton

673
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: of like prestige actors and like he studied like the

674
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: Strasburg method in New York and he's like he's like

675
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: very classically trained. He did Meisner he did all of

676
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: the random acting things that I know zero point one

677
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: percent about, But he was like on Broadway. He came

678
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: up with Ellen Burston and Jessica Tandy. He like came

679
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: up with all these kind of legends, did small character

680
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: parts and then didn't pop off until his sixties when

681
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: he began to play the iconic role of Jigsaw. So

682
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 1: it was a role he was born to play. He's

683
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: a lifetime member of the Actress I just love that

684
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: Jigsaw is a lifetime actor member of the Actress Studio.

685
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 3: That's like, yeah, and you know what else, That's the

686
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 3: type of thing that on her Instagram, Viola Davis would

687
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 3: be like, Hey, if you're worried that, you just like

688
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 3: haven't quite made it in your career yet. Tobin Bell

689
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 3: didn't become Jigsaw until he's.

690
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: Sixty two years old. Don't stop dreaming me. Honestly, I

691
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: was thinking about this because I just had my LA

692
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: anniversary and I was like, Oh, what if me seven

693
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: years ago knew what I would be doing now? And

694
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, hmmm, I would kind of be on the fence.

695
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: And that's how that's how I think that might be

696
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: the unintentional reaction of like, well, if you work really

697
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: hard for forty years, one day you can be Jigsaw.

698
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: And I think I would be like I might just

699
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: like have a family.

700
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, but good to know anyways. Yeah, James Tobo,

701
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 3: I mean, but why not both?

702
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: He does have a family. Is his name Tobin Bell? Okay,

703
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: I said James Tobin one am? I I don't know

704
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: that James wand mixed with Tobin Bell is what I was.

705
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: What just happened.

706
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 3: Also, there's a comedian named Tone Bell, yes, who I

707
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 3: keep wanting to call instead of Tobin Bell.

708
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: Look anyway, So the point is Jigsaw iconic? Yeah, little

709
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: Jigsaw more iconic.

710
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 3: The puppet you mean who rides a tricycle.

711
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: The way they try to explain the doll, I think

712
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: it's in like Saw three or something, it's a mess.

713
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: I'm just like, just let the Jigsaw doll be a

714
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: doll it's supposed to. He's like, oh, well, I made

715
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: a doll for my son, but then my wife had

716
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: a miscarriage. Because this franchise has serious issues with like

717
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: needing to punish and abuse people suffering from addiction issues,

718
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: that's a big note I have for the Salt Friend cheese.

719
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: But there he's like, yeah, I made this doll for

720
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: my so on, but then my wife had a miscarriage,

721
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 1: and so now I'm the doll. You're like, oh my god,

722
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: it's Jigsaw. Jigsaw the thing, Okay. I was gonna propose

723
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: the Jigsaw.

724
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 5: Test, Oh yeah, please, and it states if Jigsaw a

725
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 5: fears un screen, he's gonna want to play a little

726
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 5: game and it's gonna be a little sick and twisted.

727
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 3: I mean, every Saw movie passes this test.

728
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: Every Saw movie passes this test, and I hope that

729
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: it stays that way. I don't want that's you know,

730
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: some things need subversion that I don't think.

731
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't want to see the movie where

732
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 3: Jigsaw goes to therapy and learns that he should stop

733
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 3: playing games.

734
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: I do feel like the Saw franchise was ahead of

735
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: its time in many ways, because I feel like right

736
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: now we were talking about it with the Halloween franchise,

737
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: where they're in this process of and I know some

738
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: people like it, so people don't. I'm ambivalent towards it,

739
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: but like, you know, examining post traumatic stress for horror

740
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: movie characters and like introducing the idea of trauma into

741
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: horror that like didn't exist in the original franchise as much,

742
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: but I feel like Saw that's canonical Saw Too. You

743
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: find out the source of Jigsaw's pain, you find out

744
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: that he like, I mean, don't get me started. What

745
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: happened to Jigsaw.

746
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 3: See I don't remember. Despite having seen many of the Saws,

747
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 3: I don't remember. The only thing I remember about Saw

748
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: Too is that there's like a bunch of people who

749
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 3: are trying to escape different scenarios and they're like, we

750
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: were brought together for a reason, and it's like kind

751
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 3: of them trying to figure it out. But beyond that, it.

752
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 1: Has to do with corrupt cops. It Saw Too, okay,

753
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: but the approach I need I didn't rewatch Saw Too,

754
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 1: So I hope I'm not mischaracterizing it because I had

755
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: to reread the I haven't seen Saw Too easily in

756
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: ten years. But the premise of it, it is that

757
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: Jigsaw again. I'm just like, it's convoluted. He's gonna play

758
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: a little game. He's gonna So there's all these people

759
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 1: trapped in a house that's slowly filling with gas. They

760
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 1: seem to have nothing in common. Detective Donni Wahlberg's on

761
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: the case and Donnie Wahlberg's son is in the house.

762
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: Turns out Donnie Wahlberg is a corrupt cop. The house

763
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: is full of people that he is knowingly and wrongfully

764
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:33,760
Speaker 1: framed for crimes who have since been incarcerated. An interesting premise.

765
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: Why does Jigsaw feel comfortable furthering the torture of these

766
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: innocent people by filling a house with gas? Look, his

767
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: methods are convoluted. It's a sick, twisted game. And do

768
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: most of the people who have already wrongly served time

769
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: in prison die in the house? They do? But there

770
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 1: was an idea there. It was like, what I was saying,

771
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: is the soffranchise attempted to comment on corrupt cops at

772
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: several times? Now was it done successfully? And the case

773
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: was Saw too absolutely not. Didn't really make a lot

774
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: of sense. But they reveal Jigsaw's backstory and Saw two

775
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: and sort of at the end of Saw one because

776
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: they're like, he was a patient of Carrie Elwis and

777
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: he had an inoperable tumor, so that's his whole thing.

778
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: But there's a whole convoluted story that happens with his

779
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: wife and a miscarriage and his marriage falls apart, and

780
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: they all blame it on one recovering addict, who then

781
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: Jigsaw later kills in a very brutal way. But that's

782
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 1: Jigsaw's way. He finds, like, I didn't remember this one.

783
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: There's a whole saw dedicated to letting a father exact

784
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 1: revenge on the drunk driver and the judge and the

785
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: lawyer and jury because his son died in a drunk

786
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: driving accident. And it's just like Jigsaw's like, go nuts

787
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: kill the cop killed, the judge killed the driver. Like yeah,

788
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: so that's focused, okay, Jigsaw's whole thing.

789
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 3: We've been recording for thirty nine minutes.

790
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: Jigsaw also commentary on American healthcare. For some reason, Jigsaw

791
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: has a bad doctor who like gives him a like

792
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 1: doesn't I forget if it's if they either catch a

793
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: tumor too late or they tell him a tumor is

794
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: inoperable when it is not. Either way, it's like a

795
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: negligent doctor situation that Jigsaws found himself in. So he

796
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: believes he has an inoperable tumor, his marriage has fallen

797
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: to shit, and he attempts to take his own life

798
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: by driving off a cliff. He lives, and then he

799
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: has a realization, which is that he's Jigsaw, and so

800
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: he So I think that for the most part, he

801
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: spends the rest of his life, which I believe ends

802
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: in Saw three. And I remember there's a scene where Amanda,

803
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: who's in the first movie, I believe she has she

804
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 1: has to do like brain surgery on him or something. Anyways,

805
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 1: he dies, but he spends the rest of his life

806
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: being like, people are so ungrateful and yeah, I'm God

807
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: and that's male privilege.

808
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

809
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: Anyways, that's Jigsaw's deal, not that it really becomes relevant

810
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: during Saw one until the very end. Wait, we should

811
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:50,240
Speaker 1: recap the movie. Yeah, let's do that, jig Saw JIGSA.

812
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 3: Okay, So this is the recap for Saw one from

813
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 3: two thousand and four. We open on a guy waking Also,

814
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 3: this is one of the longest recaps I've ever written.

815
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,240
Speaker 3: I tried to condense it. I just but like, there's

816
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 3: just so much and there and most of the movie

817
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 3: happens in one room, and yet so much happens.

818
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's genius. Anyway.

819
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 3: Okay, So we open on a guy waking up in

820
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 3: a bathtub full of water, in a dark room. He

821
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 3: doesn't know where he is or what's going on. He's

822
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,720
Speaker 3: very freaked out. Yeah, he hears a voice, the lights

823
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 3: come on. It's Carrie ill when McGregor, I.

824
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: Love that you. I forgot that. You also can't say it.

825
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 3: I yes, I can say you and McGregor, I cannot

826
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,359
Speaker 3: say Carrie Coloss.

827
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: I had a physical response to hearing you say that

828
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: man's name correctly because I just know I can't do it.

829
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: It's just you wining'. It just happened again. Like my

830
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: stomach turns. I had just have like a physical response,

831
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: even like looking at his name makes me just nervous.

832
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 3: Okay, So so Scaryl els els elbows ls ls. I'm

833
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 3: not sure. Okay. So there are two men in a room.

834
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 3: It's a disgusting, dilapidated bathroom. Both of the men are

835
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 3: chained to the wall or to something pipes by their

836
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 3: one of their feet. They also see a dead body

837
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 3: lying in a pool of blood in the middle of

838
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 3: the floor.

839
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: We don't think about this. We don't think about this

840
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 1: for hours.

841
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 3: We know it's there, but yes we don't. It's in

842
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 3: our periphery, but not in our main line of sight.

843
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 3: For most of the movie.

844
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: Oh, Henry couldn't come up with this twist. It's the

845
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 1: greatest twist it is.

846
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 3: I don't disagree.

847
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 1: Okay.

848
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 3: In one hand, the dead man is holding a gun

849
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 3: and he seems to have shot himself in the head,

850
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 3: hence the large pool of blood.

851
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: He appears to have lost Jigsaw's game exactly.

852
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 3: Yes.

853
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

854
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 3: In the other hand, he is holding a tape player. Now,

855
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 3: Carrie Illas.

856
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: I think we should always refer to him as his

857
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: as his full name, and I don't want to remember

858
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 1: what I was, like, what is his character's name, because

859
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: I just keep thinking carry el Wez Well, I'm going in, Adam.

860
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: I do think of the other one as Adam did

861
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: you as you were watching this, where you're just like

862
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: this is is this the is Nathan Fields or Jigsaw?

863
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: It was a passing thought I had, it was I

864
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: could just I was like, fast forward twenty years in

865
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 1: Nathan Fielder's career. Is he Jigsaw? And let's not rule it.

866
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 3: Saw movies are just long episodes of Nathan for you?

867
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 3: Is that perhaps.

868
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: Rehearsal Season nine has stunning parallel. This is a clickbait

869
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,439
Speaker 1: piece for the future. This is the rehearsal Season nine

870
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: has stunning parallels to Saw three. In this essay, I

871
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: will ugh, I feel like Nathan Fielder. He doesn't have

872
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: Jigsaw energy, but no Jigsaw methods. It could get anyways.

873
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 3: Okay, so Carrie you Wills is like, I'm doctor Lawrence Gordon,

874
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 3: I'm a surgeon, and the other guy is like, I'm

875
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 3: Adam and he is played by Lee Wannel Wannell.

876
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: Le Wannell Sure, I'm just I'm going Wannel.

877
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 3: To me wrote the screenplay and co created the story

878
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 3: with James Wan Anyway, Lawrence and Adam introduce themselves, yes,

879
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 3: and they try to figure out why they might be there,

880
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 3: who their captor is, and what they want from Lawrence

881
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 3: and Adam. They then discover envelopes that were placed in

882
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:56,280
Speaker 3: their pockets. Adam's envelope has a tape, Lawrence's has a tape,

883
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 3: a bullet, and a key. They try to un their

884
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 3: chains with the key, but it doesn't work, so then

885
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 3: they get the tape player in the dead guy's hand.

886
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,760
Speaker 3: Adam plays his tape first, and it's a creepy voice

887
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 3: who we will learn belongs to Jigsaw. I like how

888
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 3: every time I refer to the voice, you start humming

889
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 3: the theme song as if it's the voice, which.

890
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 1: Which it famously is. Not that I I want a Jigsa.

891
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: I'm unfortunately on eBay as we speak. I'm paying attention,

892
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: but I'm also shopping for a Jigsaw doll there.

893
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, of course. Well, hey, it's your birthday coming up.

894
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 3: Maybe hold off on buying your soul. I almost I've

895
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 3: bought you a Jigsaw doll yet.

896
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: Please bring it to my birthday party at medieval times.

897
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: Bring a Jigsa do to Medieval Times. I feel like

898
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 1: it would be a hit. I almost bought adult earlier

899
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 1: this year when I was working, when I was in

900
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: the trenches on my my with my female Jigsaw character. Yeah,

901
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: and I almost bought something off of Etsy called Baby Jigsaw,

902
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: but then I decided too scary didn't buy it.

903
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I think it's time to design some

904
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 3: new merch similar to the queer icon baby Grinch.

905
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: Baby Jigsaw's so funny. I feel like in the same

906
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: way you're like, baby Grew is not gonna work, but

907
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: it works better than Adult Grew. Baby Jigsaw, I don't know,

908
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,879
Speaker 1: could work better than it would? You know it would.

909
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: It would kind of fuck with Cannon, but give me

910
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: a chance, James wand let me write the baby jigsaws.

911
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 1: I guess that's kind of chucky adjacent, but I'm okay

912
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, hmm, all right, sorry to what's happening.

913
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 3: So the creepy voice on the tape player is saying

914
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 3: to Adam, basically, you're a pathetically loser and you've done

915
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,879
Speaker 3: nothing with your life and maybe you'll die today. Now,

916
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 3: Lawrence's tape is the harsh, really harsh.

917
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: That's classic Jigsaw.

918
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 3: You know, it's it's it's tough but fair.

919
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: He's a fair he's a he's a vengeful god, but

920
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: but you know he's a fair god. Okay.

921
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 3: So Lawrence's tape is the voice saying, you have to

922
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 3: kill Adam, and you have until six o'clock to do it,

923
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 3: and if you don't do it, Alison and Diana will die.

924
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: So we are already in we're damseling the whole family.

925
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: There is a version of that later on, but for

926
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 1: the majority, we've we've doubled damseled the Elwhiz ladies.

927
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 3: Correct, Yes, So it says that, and then Jigsaw is like,

928
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 3: by the way X marks the spot for treasure, Let

929
00:53:57,840 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 3: the game be gin.

930
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: What is he talking about? Whoa? And then I love

931
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: this guy?

932
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:09,720
Speaker 3: And then in a whisper, he says, follow your heart,

933
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,280
Speaker 3: and then they notice a heart.

934
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:13,399
Speaker 1: My mom says that.

935
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 3: They notice a heart drawn on the toilet next to Adam,

936
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 3: and inside the tank are two handsaws which they used

937
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 3: to try to saw through their chains, but the chains

938
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 3: are way too thick and strong. And then Lawrence realizes

939
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 3: their captor doesn't want them to cut through the chains,

940
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 3: he wants them to cut through their feet.

941
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: Awesome. What was that horrible James Franco movie where he

942
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 1: had to do the same thing and it was like,

943
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 1: nice try, Oh that was based on a true story.

944
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 1: I think someone really had to do that.

945
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is definitely a true story. Correct.

946
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 1: If I had to cut my own limb off m hm,

947
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: I would take comfort in the fact that.

948
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 3: It's what Jigsaw would have wanted.

949
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:10,439
Speaker 1: Jigsaw vibes. I'm channeling Jigsaw right now, But it would

950
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: not it would not be good. Yes, all right, now

951
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: that I've made that insight, will comment.

952
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, all due respect to the real life person who

953
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:20,720
Speaker 3: had to cut off their arm.

954
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 1: In Yeah, I know, I'm mostly saying I hate James Franco.

955
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, he James Franco should cut

956
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:32,760
Speaker 3: off every appendage on his body. Got his ass, Yeah, okay,

957
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 3: he should cut off too, exactly.

958
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: All right, So.

959
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,879
Speaker 3: Lawrence starts to realize, he starts to you know, kind

960
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 3: of suspect who might be behind this. We flash back

961
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 3: to various crime scenes where a few detectives, including Detective

962
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 3: Tap played by Danny Glover and Detective Sing played by

963
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:04,240
Speaker 3: Ken Lang, they find the victims of the Jigsaw Killer.

964
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 3: And this killer's whole thing is that he wants to

965
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 3: punish his victims for something they did, some vice they

966
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 3: have or something, and he will.

967
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 1: Bigsaw loves to punish people struggling with addiction. It's one

968
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: of my least favorite things about Jigsaw.

969
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got some work to do. Yeah, So what

970
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 3: Jigsaw will do is devise an elaborate and horrific escape

971
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 3: room like scenario.

972
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: They forgot iconic and iconic.

973
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 3: He basically builds little escape rooms and he puts his

974
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 3: victims in them, and they are usually unable to escape

975
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 3: and they end up doing something to kill themselves in

976
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 3: the process because they have to climb through razor wire

977
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 3: or they accidentally light themselves on fire stuff like that.

978
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: I feel like he kind of I wonder how inspired

979
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: that was by like Charles Manson kind of stuff of, like, well,

980
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: I didn't do the how can you prosecute me for

981
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: being a killer? I didn't do it myself? When it's

982
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: like no Jigsaw, no, no Jigsaw, you are a killer?

983
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: Do you remember at some point? Well, I guess you weren't.

984
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 1: I was, embarrassingly back in the day a big Gilmore

985
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: Girls fan, and I think it's Saw four where Luke

986
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: from Gilmore Girls enters the Saw universe and you're just like, what, Yeah,

987
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: he they really rough him up? They you thought you

988
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,479
Speaker 1: thought they roughed up his heart on Gilmore Girls. Well,

989
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: all I'll say is, if you were team Christopher on

990
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: Gilmore Girls, you were loving Saw four or five and

991
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: maybe six because they were they were really handing Luke's

992
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: ass back to him. He was like an associate of

993
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: Detective Donnie Wahlberg these movies. Describing these movies does make

994
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: you sound like really disconnected from reality, but they put

995
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: like he was the guy that I also have a

996
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: list of like best Saw kills, and it was kind

997
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: of refreshing my memory a little bit. He was this guy,

998
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: the guy that they put the cue the cube on

999
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:12,479
Speaker 1: his head? Do you remember cube head?

1000
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 3: Was that from Saw two?

1001
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: No, I think it's from like four.

1002
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 3: Oh then, But they all really blend together.

1003
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 5: For me.

1004
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: It's it's funny because you can see his like bad

1005
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: hair plugs even in this like grainy shot. I also

1006
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: feel like embraced Balding Luke. Right.

1007
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 3: Here's the thought that I just had, which is that

1008
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of what they do on

1009
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 3: Jackass is not unlike what Jigsaw does to his victims,

1010
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 3: because well I didn't see the Jackass movie, but I

1011
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 3: just remember, like I saw the trailer a million times,

1012
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 3: and there's like a scenario where they like poor honey

1013
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 3: on a guy, strap him to a chair and then

1014
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 3: put a grizzly bear in the room with him. Or

1015
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 3: there's a part where like the puts a box around

1016
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 3: someone's head and then they put a tarantula in a

1017
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 3: tube getting toward it. So I'm just like, this is

1018
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 3: Jigsaw stuff.

1019
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: The new Jackass movie was I thought pretty fun, and

1020
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: also it now the parallels are are kind of blowing

1021
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: my mind because I later had sex with a guy

1022
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: as an adult in Boston, who made me watch two

1023
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 1: Jackass movies before he would kiss me on the map.

1024
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:29,439
Speaker 1: Whoa do you remember and then bleep that out.

1025
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 3: I don't remember this person though.

1026
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 1: Oh well, he uh did improv and he didn't have

1027
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 1: a bed frame and I watched two Jackass movies with him.

1028
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: He had he had also like not, I mean what,

1029
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,919
Speaker 1: we were all broke, but there's different ways to be,

1030
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: you know whatever. He was a real. He was a

1031
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: real I think classic maybe w Yeah, because his he'd

1032
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: in lieu of a TV stand, he had a stack

1033
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: of JFK conspiracy books. Anyways, absolutely was in love with

1034
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: him for some reason. Nice. Oh. The last thing I

1035
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: was gonna say was I feel like, on one side

1036
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 1: of Saw adjacent you have Jackass, which predated Saw, and

1037
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: I wonder if you would imagine that the writers at

1038
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:19,919
Speaker 1: some point would have to go to the Jackass well

1039
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: for inspiration. And then on the other side, I think

1040
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: you have kind of the because I mean, correctly probably

1041
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: Saw was criticized in its time for being torture porn.

1042
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: Now this is this is a good point, but I

1043
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 1: think that the success of this movie, because this movie

1044
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: made its budget back one hundred times. Yeah, So fucking wild.

1045
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: But it influenced a lot of other horror franchises that

1046
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 1: I think like leaned into the torture porn with no

1047
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: attempted commentary. And I'm thinking of the Saw franchise.

1048
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, same, Yeah, I know it. I was reading The

1049
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,439
Speaker 3: Wan and Wannell, So what I'm gonna call them?

1050
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: The boys, the best Friends, the W's.

1051
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 3: They drew inspiration from seven, which is one of my

1052
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 3: favorite thrillers.

1053
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 1: Is that What's in the Box? Yeah? What was it?

1054
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 1: What was in the box?

1055
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna spoil it.

1056
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's really funny. There's like a ton of

1057
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: listeners that were.

1058
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 3: Like, no, okay. So we learn about Jigsaw's m O. Yeah,

1059
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 3: we get another flashback of doctor Lawrence talking to med students,

1060
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 3: maybe about a patient who has terminal cancer and yeah,

1061
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 3: like an inoperable tumor.

1062
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 1: Put a pin in that. Yes, it turns out he's

1063
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 1: the problem. He too busy cheating on his wife to

1064
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: give Jigsaw a correct diagnosis.

1065
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 3: And then we also meet very briefly, an orderly named

1066
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 3: Zepp good name, who comes in and he's like that

1067
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 3: patient you're talking about. Actually his name is John, and

1068
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 3: he's very interesting and when you're watching the movie, you

1069
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 3: don't think much of it as you're watching it, but then.

1070
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 1: When watching it, you're like, yeah, I would say John

1071
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: is a little interesting. I guess I would say that

1072
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 1: because he's Jigsaw.

1073
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. So then detectives tap and sing question Lawrence because

1074
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 3: he's a suspect in the Jigsaw case because his pen

1075
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 3: light was found at the scene of one of the

1076
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 3: crimes at one of the escape rooms. But Lawrence has

1077
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 3: an alibi that checks out, and it's implied that he

1078
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 3: is having an affair.

1079
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's deeply ashamed of the affair. Yeah, and

1080
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: that's a whole thing for him.

1081
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 3: Lawrence is then asked to listen into the testimony of

1082
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 3: one of Jigsaw's only victim to ever escape, a woman

1083
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 3: named Amanda, who.

1084
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: Turns out to be his associate.

1085
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 3: Uh what, I don't remember that. Oh my gosh.

1086
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: Amanda's in a bunch of them because she ends up

1087
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: because you know how, she's like, Jigsaw helped me, and

1088
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 1: then she like kind of becomes his sidekick for several

1089
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 1: I think up until his death.

1090
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 3: Okay, I do kind of remember that, and.

1091
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: Then I don't know, I don't remember. Assuming she dies

1092
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 1: at some point Buck because she's in Saw movies.

1093
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 3: Right, Everybody dies.

1094
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, every whether you're in a Saw

1095
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 1: movie or not. Guess what, you're gonna die. Someday you're

1096
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 1: gonna die, just hopefully not in a Oh I was

1097
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 1: thinking of this one. I don't remember what Saw movie

1098
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 1: it was. Do you remember the pile of syringes, the

1099
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 1: syringe like kind of yeah, someone had to crawl through

1100
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: the syringe Like, ooh, baby, that was not that was

1101
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,439
Speaker 1: that was unfortunate. Yeah, sure thing.

1102
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 3: This is also when we see the little Jigsaw puppet

1103
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 3: guy who comes pedaling into the room on a tricycle

1104
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 3: and we're.

1105
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: Like, we're like, yeah, we're standing, we're cheering. Yeah.

1106
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 3: We cut back to the present with Lawrence and Adam

1107
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 3: in the room. They figure out that there's a camera

1108
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 3: in the room and that they're being watched, presumably by Jigsaw.

1109
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 3: Adam finds a polaroid of Lawrence's family who have been

1110
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 3: like kidnapped and tied up, and there's an X written

1111
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 3: on the back of it, but Adam doesn't show this

1112
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 3: to Lawrence right away. Then we get another flashback with

1113
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 3: Lawrence and his daughter. She's talking about a scary man

1114
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 3: that's in her room. Lawrence comforts her and puts her

1115
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 3: to bed, And there's I.

1116
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 1: The only one that felt that. I felt that I

1117
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 1: was I didn't look this up, but Carrie el Wes

1118
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 1: is parenting I found to be patronizing and creepy. He's like,

1119
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: what do you mean I would never abandon you and

1120
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: your mom? And I was like, Okay, this girl's she's

1121
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: too old to be spoken to like that.

1122
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure if you could like chalk that up

1123
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 3: to just like his poorly written character or Carrie Elle,

1124
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 3: was this really bad acting.

1125
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: Or genuinely, I mean his character and this is giving

1126
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: him too much crep but like his character is full

1127
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: of shit, So maybe he's like, I should sound like

1128
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 1: I'm kind of lying because it sounds like he kind

1129
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: of maybe could bail on his family, like he doesn't

1130
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 1: care about them as much as he should. Although I'll

1131
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: say my least favorite actor in the movie in like

1132
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 1: this scene specifically, but there's a few scenes where the

1133
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 1: woman what is because I don't want to spend the

1134
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 1: whole time saying his wife what is his wife's name? Alice?

1135
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 3: Allison?

1136
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: Alison. Yeah, So the first scene, Alison is in. I

1137
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 1: don't know what was going on there, but she that

1138
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: acting was what was going on there. She was like,

1139
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: she was like Carrie el was, you can't this is bullshit.

1140
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 1: I can't believe that you are You're you're messing around

1141
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: on me. Like it was just like total dead fish's

1142
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 1: energy that she was bringing to the role. Her perform

1143
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 1: it gets kind of good once she gets a gun,

1144
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 1: she kind of kind of wakes up. I agree, I

1145
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 1: thought she was good in those scenes.

1146
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 3: But earlier, Yeah, there's a scene where she's like, don't

1147
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 3: stand there and try to convince me that you're happy.

1148
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 3: Scream at me and tell me you hate me. At

1149
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 3: least then there would be some passion and like that.

1150
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 1: All delivered at the same like that was her delivery also,

1151
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 1: at least then there would be some passion. I'm like, oh,

1152
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm breaking up with this lady. This is

1153
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 1: not helping there. Also, how did they get Danny Glover

1154
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: to be in this movie? And how dare they kill

1155
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: him so early? And they're how his character is also

1156
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 1: like bizarre, weird, and at some point they're like, this

1157
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 1: character's kind of like Jigsaw. You don't want to hand

1158
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 1: it to Jigsaw. But Jigsaw is like, this guy's a weirdo,

1159
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, no, I kind of agree. He

1160
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: is acting a bit weird.

1161
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:07,960
Speaker 3: He yeah, it's very cartoonish. Yeah, okay. So we're in

1162
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 3: this flashback where we see Lawrence interacting with his family.

1163
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 3: We see him and his wife Alison have an argument.

1164
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 3: Their marriage seems to be very tense. It seems like

1165
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 3: she suspects him of cheating and storms out, and she's right,

1166
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 3: he storms out. Then a scary man who is hiding

1167
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 3: in the little girl's closet abducts Lawrence's wife and daughter,

1168
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 3: torments them a bit, and then we see that it's

1169
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 3: Zep that orderly from the hospital, So we are thinking, okay,

1170
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 3: Zepp is Jigsaw, I guess. Then we flash back to

1171
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 3: Detective Tap studying the video that Jigsaw made and showed

1172
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 3: to Amanda, the woman who had escaped, and Tap discovers

1173
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 3: a clue that leads him and Detective Sing to what

1174
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 3: appears to be Jigsaw's secret layer in an abandoned mannequin factory.

1175
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 3: So that was my I was again iconic iconic, and

1176
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, he found that a mannequin and then

1177
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 3: made it into the little Jigsaw puppet. That was sort

1178
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 3: of what I was thinking must have happened.

1179
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 1: Which is the easiest explanation, But I don't think that's

1180
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 1: ultimately the one they go with. I think that they're

1181
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,800
Speaker 1: just like, no, it had to do with his they made.

1182
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:31,639
Speaker 1: They connected it to like Jigsaw trauma, like he could

1183
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:35,160
Speaker 1: just find a mannequin. It seems like they were all around. Yeah,

1184
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 1: but also the Jigsaw doll, what would that have been

1185
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 1: for at any point a haunted house, Like that's the

1186
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:41,759
Speaker 1: only thing I could think.

1187
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 3: Of, right, because also Jigsaw has this this mask of

1188
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 3: like a pig's face that he puts on to abduct,

1189
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 3: right people, And then there's also the puppet. And then

1190
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 3: Jigsaw also just sometimes wears like a hooded trench coat

1191
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 3: kind of thing.

1192
01:08:58,120 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 1: Nothing wrong with that.

1193
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,680
Speaker 3: He's got a lot of different personas, I guess, is

1194
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 3: what I'm saying.

1195
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got all the fifth You've got all of looks.

1196
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 1: The fashion My Cursed YouTube video the fashion evolution of Jigsaw.

1197
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 1: There another great sketch. I really love Cursed YouTube. And

1198
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:17,559
Speaker 1: like there's those videos on like I think it's like

1199
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 1: the Vogue channel where they bring in huge celebrities when

1200
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 1: it would be interesting and more interesting if they brought

1201
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 1: in Jigsaw and they're like whatever, Like, Nicole Kidman breaks

1202
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:31,560
Speaker 1: down ten iconic looks from across her career and it's fine.

1203
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 1: But if you brought in Jigsaw, Jigsaw breaks and ten

1204
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 1: iconic looks from his career as a murderer.

1205
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:41,719
Speaker 3: Hang on a second. If we're talking about Nicole Kidman's

1206
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,559
Speaker 3: iconic looks, obviously the most iconic one is the one

1207
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:46,919
Speaker 3: that she wears in the AMC theaters.

1208
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 1: Oh you know it commercial, the pinstripe suit with a

1209
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:52,680
Speaker 1: little bit of glitter. And did you see that she

1210
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 1: got picked up for an additional year for that. I'm like,

1211
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,600
Speaker 1: what does that even mean? Is that they're gonna be

1212
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 1: an you're shooting another one? I don't know. They just

1213
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:02,639
Speaker 1: need to like license her likeness so they can show

1214
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 1: it forever. I kind of would be like sad if

1215
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 1: there was a new one, I'd be excited, but I

1216
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: would miss the old one.

1217
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 3: What if there was a whole franchise AMC one, AMC two,

1218
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:16,439
Speaker 3: AMC three up until AMC six and then AMC three D.

1219
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:20,679
Speaker 1: And then they'll be like, Okay, we had to ease

1220
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 1: off this franchise. This is getting to be a bit much.

1221
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:29,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I look, Saw is so fun. Okay,

1222
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 1: so wait, where do we leave off in.

1223
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 3: The story of Saw, Jamie, you've been recording for seventy

1224
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 3: two minutes.

1225
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 1: No, oh no, the clack is too Did I show

1226
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 1: you my picture with Jigsaw? I posted it earlier this year.

1227
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 1: Oh here, you keep talking, I'll send you my Jigsaw picture.

1228
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you so much. Okay, you're welcome. So they

1229
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 3: go to Jigsaw's secret layer. Yeah, there is a man there,

1230
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 3: another one of Jigsaw's victims. He's about to be killed.

1231
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:02,719
Speaker 3: Jigsaw shows up. There's a big where the detectives save

1232
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:07,640
Speaker 3: the victim they're chasing. After Jigsaw, Sing is killed in

1233
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 3: a trap. Jigsaw slits taps throat and ultimately escapes. So

1234
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 3: then we cut back to the present where Tap has survived,

1235
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 3: which is wild because his throat was cut so deep.

1236
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 1: I always kind of forget that because it defies logic

1237
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 1: by so much. Like I was. I mean, don't get

1238
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 1: me wrong, I was happy to see that Danny Glover

1239
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:34,839
Speaker 1: was still in the movie, but it really is against

1240
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 1: all logic that he's still in the movie.

1241
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:42,000
Speaker 3: That injury would almost certainly kill. I'm not a doctor,

1242
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 3: but I really I'm no doctor. Lawrence Gordon played by

1243
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 3: Carrie il Whizz.

1244
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 1: Well good because then you would misdiagnose Jigsaw and then

1245
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: you and then you'd be in for a real ride.

1246
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: I oh god, Jigsaw, he's so COMPLI he's so complicated.

1247
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 3: Okay, So Tap survives. He now has a big scar

1248
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 3: on his neck and he is now obsessed with this case.

1249
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:13,080
Speaker 3: It has completely consumed him. And this is where the

1250
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 3: character gets very cartoonish and weird, and just some weird

1251
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 3: choices are made there. Okay, so we cut to the

1252
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:26,960
Speaker 3: room again. Lawrence is like, Okay, we need to figure

1253
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 3: out this whole X marks the spot thing, which they

1254
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 3: find by turning off the lights and they see an

1255
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:35,599
Speaker 3: X on the wall and glow in the dark paint.

1256
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 3: Lawrence busts open the wall and finds a box in

1257
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:43,599
Speaker 3: which is a cell phone, a couple of cigarettes, and

1258
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:47,960
Speaker 3: a lighter. Adam is desperate to smoke the cigarette because

1259
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 3: he's stressed, because he's so stressed, but there's also this

1260
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 3: ominous note from Jigsaw for Lawrence about the cigarette and

1261
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 3: how Lawrence could maybe poison Adams with the cigarette and

1262
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 3: the poison that's in the blood and blah blah blah.

1263
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 3: So Lawrence first he tries to make a call. He

1264
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 3: tries to like call nine one one, but turns out

1265
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:13,799
Speaker 3: this phone it's only for incoming calls. So then Lawrence

1266
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 3: hatches a plan to make Jigsaw think that he's poisoning

1267
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:22,639
Speaker 3: the cigarette with the blood from the dead guy. Lawrence

1268
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:26,759
Speaker 3: has Adam play along. He smokes the cigarette, he pretends

1269
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:27,760
Speaker 3: to die, but.

1270
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:31,759
Speaker 1: It's horribly faking job. Yeah, it's like such a bad job.

1271
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 1: I think that he's supposed to be bad at it

1272
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: in the movie and I was like, that's a good

1273
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:37,800
Speaker 1: bake death. That was a good bake death. Yeah, he

1274
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:38,680
Speaker 1: really phoned it in.

1275
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 3: You would have thought, though that because Lawrence is a doctor,

1276
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:46,640
Speaker 3: and you would think he would know how long it

1277
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:50,760
Speaker 3: would take for like a poison to take effect.

1278
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 1: And you would he be a good doctor. He's a

1279
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 1: canonically doctor. And meanwhile he and also if anyone's gonna

1280
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 1: know a bad actor, it's Tobin Bell. He studied Meisner.

1281
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:07,759
Speaker 3: As did the character Jackson.

1282
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 1: Bo I wish, wouldn't that be great? I we don't

1283
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:18,519
Speaker 1: have time there yet. Jigsaw is not is not falling

1284
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 1: for it not having it, Yeah.

1285
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:24,559
Speaker 3: He doesn't, and he punishes Adam by electrocuting him via

1286
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 3: the chain, which is also apparently has an electrical current

1287
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 3: going through it. Who knows. So then we get the

1288
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 3: reveal that Adam has been photographing Lawrence and he knows

1289
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 3: who Lawrence is, even though he pretended not to. Then

1290
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 3: the cell phone rings it's Lawrence's daughter and wife, and

1291
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:51,640
Speaker 3: Alison confirms this that Adam knows who Lawrence is, and

1292
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 3: it turns out that Adam had been taking pictures of

1293
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 3: Lawrence's indiscretions the past few nights.

1294
01:14:57,280 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 1: For Danny Glover question Mark.

1295
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:01,640
Speaker 3: And so I don't know if that's supposed to be

1296
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:06,480
Speaker 3: another red herring where it's like maybe tap, maybe it's Jigsaw.

1297
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 1: I guess I never even thought it. Maybe that is.

1298
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:11,160
Speaker 1: I don't even know. At that point, You're just like,

1299
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:14,320
Speaker 1: I'm just I kind of forget that we're supposed to

1300
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 1: be wondering who Jigsaw is. I'm like, I almost don't care.

1301
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:18,840
Speaker 1: I just I just am like waiting for Karrie el

1302
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 1: West to have his ass handed to him. That was

1303
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 1: another interesting like I do think the swings that the

1304
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,559
Speaker 1: Saw franchise takes it trying to say something but never

1305
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:32,280
Speaker 1: quite saying anything is interesting where like, you know, Jigsaw

1306
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:35,000
Speaker 1: is so lawless that it's like he doesn't really have

1307
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:38,360
Speaker 1: a code of ethics other than like practice X games

1308
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: gratitude at all times. But like, but I do think

1309
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:45,439
Speaker 1: it's you know, he he Jigsaw does not like cops,

1310
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 1: probably partially because he's wanted. But on that front, Jigsaw

1311
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:54,679
Speaker 1: and I are are a united front. But he does

1312
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:59,600
Speaker 1: not like Danny Glover for being I don't even know

1313
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 1: all cops are corrupt. In this specific case, he's just

1314
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 1: like acting really weird. He's too into it, and you're like,

1315
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 1: why are you like spending possibly your own money. But

1316
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 1: then also like kind of taking on like surveillance and

1317
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 1: like Adam deserves to die because he colluded with the cops.

1318
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:22,439
Speaker 1: But then also you do get from Adam the fact

1319
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 1: that he's like, well, I've been put in this position

1320
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:27,400
Speaker 1: because of a class issue. I don't have any fucking money.

1321
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:30,759
Speaker 1: What am I supposed to do? And then with Carrie Els,

1322
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 1: you have the idea of like shame and like is

1323
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 1: it right to surveil someone against their will even if

1324
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:39,840
Speaker 1: they are doing something fucked up? No, it's always wrong.

1325
01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 1: But Carrie el is also not a great guy. Like

1326
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 1: just everyone in the Saw franchise is complex and bad.

1327
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 1: I just think it's good, like it's good, it's simply good.

1328
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 1: They're but they're like they're not. There's no I mean,

1329
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 1: I guess there's It's not that there's no value judgments.

1330
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 1: It's that there's only value judgments.

1331
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 3: And they're mostly coming from Jigsaw.

1332
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:07,479
Speaker 1: And Jigsaw Jigsaw kind of above criticism in Jigsaw's opinion.

1333
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:13,479
Speaker 1: Who's never having to play a little game Jigsaw until

1334
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 1: the until I think Saw three.

1335
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:18,639
Speaker 3: Anyway, I cannot wait to rewatch all of these movies. Okay,

1336
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:23,360
Speaker 3: so we've learned the detective tap Is is no longer

1337
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:26,479
Speaker 3: a cop, first of all, and he's paying Adam to

1338
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 3: surveil Lawrence for reasons.

1339
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 1: For reasons.

1340
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:36,479
Speaker 3: I think tap still thinks that Lawrence is Jigsaw. I

1341
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:39,719
Speaker 3: think so, yes, I think he thinks that the whole time.

1342
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 1: And I mean that is I guess true to shitty

1343
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 1: cop logic of just and that is explored and later

1344
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 1: so wait, this is blowing my eye. That's explored and

1345
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 1: later Saw movies where like Danny Glover has in his

1346
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:55,120
Speaker 1: mind who he thinks did the crime, and he's exhausting

1347
01:17:55,160 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 1: every possible resource to arrest who he thinks did the

1348
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 1: crime so he can close the case, which happens all

1349
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:04,400
Speaker 1: the time. And then Saw two is all about how

1350
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 1: detective Donnie Wahlberg does the same thing, and it's like

1351
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:11,560
Speaker 1: put people in prison and ruined lives and then unfortunately

1352
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 1: Jigsaw fills the house with gas and they all die.

1353
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:20,400
Speaker 1: So that again, that part was confusing. But Jigsaw does

1354
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:24,080
Speaker 1: not like lazy cops. He does not.

1355
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:32,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, okay, where are we were almost done with

1356
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:38,519
Speaker 3: the recap? Okay, So the clock strikes six, which is

1357
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 3: when Lawrence was supposed to kill Adam.

1358
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:43,000
Speaker 1: By Jigsaw has got an early bedtime.

1359
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 3: He's like, I've got a dinner, He's got to watch

1360
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:46,760
Speaker 3: Two and a half.

1361
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 1: Men is on at eight and I'm not missing it.

1362
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 1: So we gotta wrap, we gotta be done. Yeah.

1363
01:18:54,120 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 3: So Zepp calls the cell phone and has Alison tell

1364
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 3: Lawrence that he failed since he didn't kill Adam in time.

1365
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 3: But Alison has untied herself and fights back against Zepp

1366
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:12,680
Speaker 3: and there's a struggle. Detective Tap comes in, who had

1367
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 3: been monitoring the whole situation, so he goes over to

1368
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:21,000
Speaker 3: see what's going on. There's a big shootout and Alison

1369
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:25,400
Speaker 3: and Diana have a chance to escape, but Lawrence is

1370
01:19:25,439 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 3: listening on the phone. He hears all the gunshots, all

1371
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 3: the screaming, and he assumes the worst. He thinks that

1372
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 3: his family is being murdered. Sure, he doesn't know.

1373
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 1: It's almost like he forgets so that there's a little

1374
01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 1: game going on and that's on him.

1375
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:43,880
Speaker 3: He does seem to forget. Yeah, So, thinking that his

1376
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:52,599
Speaker 3: family is perishing, he takes the saw and saws his

1377
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 3: foot off so that he can escape.

1378
01:19:56,520 --> 01:20:00,160
Speaker 1: No way around that. He then he does so.

1379
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:03,919
Speaker 3: Takes the bullet, crawls over to the dead body, loads

1380
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 3: the gun and shoots Adam, thinking that that will be

1381
01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:09,960
Speaker 3: a good idea.

1382
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:13,559
Speaker 1: I'm like, really not. Sometimes I'm just like what was

1383
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 1: he going for there? And Adam seems to sort of,

1384
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 1: i mean understandably, kind of feels the same way. He's

1385
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:23,439
Speaker 1: like no, He's like, what are you doing? Don't And

1386
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:29,559
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, wait a second, what is happening right now?

1387
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:33,680
Speaker 1: Are you doing? Could you staw excuse me? Could you

1388
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:41,280
Speaker 1: stop stop? Oh jig saw? Okay wait okay.

1389
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 3: So meanwhile, Tap is chasing Zepp who we still think

1390
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:49,519
Speaker 3: is Jigsaw. Yeah, he catches up to Zepp. There's a

1391
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:54,160
Speaker 3: scuffle and Tap is shot and killed. So then Zepp

1392
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 3: comes into the room to kill Lawrence because he was

1393
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:01,160
Speaker 3: too late. He didn't follow the rules. He didn't kill

1394
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 3: Adam by six o'clock. But oh wait, Adam is still

1395
01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:09,920
Speaker 3: alive and he attacks and kills Zepp. Yes, so then

1396
01:21:10,439 --> 01:21:14,519
Speaker 3: Lawrence crawls away to find help because he's bleeding to

1397
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 3: death and Adam has been shot and he's like, I

1398
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:20,240
Speaker 3: need to go find help.

1399
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:22,920
Speaker 1: Terry Elwis is the last girl in this movie, which

1400
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:23,599
Speaker 1: is interesting.

1401
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:28,880
Speaker 3: Well, no, I feel like it's Adam, I guess.

1402
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that is true. Yeah, but also I'm thinking

1403
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:34,680
Speaker 1: that because Cary el Was, I believe is later revealed

1404
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 1: to still be work, I think he goes to work

1405
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:37,799
Speaker 1: for Jigsaw.

1406
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 3: What that's a hold on?

1407
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 1: No, wait, I might be I might be mis remembering

1408
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:47,160
Speaker 1: that there's some there's a cast member that you think

1409
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:49,240
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly come back but does.

1410
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 3: And those are the twists of the Saw franchise and

1411
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 3: that you love to see.

1412
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:57,000
Speaker 1: And these are the Saw moments we love the most. Yeah, No,

1413
01:21:57,120 --> 01:21:59,639
Speaker 1: he doesn't, he doesn't die. Yeah, he I think later

1414
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:02,240
Speaker 1: goes to I think that I don't know if he

1415
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 1: does it willingly. I don't know if he like I forget,

1416
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:10,120
Speaker 1: if he like joins the like Jigsaw Ethos, or if

1417
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:14,599
Speaker 1: Jigsaw is simply punishing him for having told him that

1418
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 1: his tumor was inoperable when it wasn't, which was you know,

1419
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:19,720
Speaker 1: he was right to be mad.

1420
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:22,000
Speaker 3: He was right to be mad.

1421
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:25,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, because if Carrie l Was had been a less

1422
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:28,800
Speaker 1: shitty doctor, Jigsaw wouldn't even be a thing.

1423
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:32,680
Speaker 3: Is that the catalyst that gets everything going for Jigsaw?

1424
01:22:33,320 --> 01:22:37,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's when Jigsaw is so he attempts to take

1425
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:41,599
Speaker 1: his own life after learning he has an inoperable tumor. Ok,

1426
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 1: it wasn't actually inoperable, right, and then it's after he

1427
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 1: survives that accident that he becomes Jigsaw. So no, Carrie

1428
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:53,439
Speaker 1: el was Is being a shitty doctor kind of sets

1429
01:22:53,479 --> 01:22:57,360
Speaker 1: off the chain of events that leads to Jigsaw.

1430
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 3: But we don't we don't learn that until a later

1431
01:23:01,439 --> 01:23:02,080
Speaker 3: saw a movie.

1432
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not that's I don't think that they thought

1433
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 1: there was going to be morisaws, but they made up

1434
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:11,160
Speaker 1: for it by making some of the best movies ever.

1435
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:18,000
Speaker 3: Okay, so Lawrence has crawled away. He's bleeding to death,

1436
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:23,519
Speaker 3: although apparently doesn't die. Then Adam searches Zep's body for

1437
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:26,559
Speaker 3: a key to try to unlock his chains, but what

1438
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:31,519
Speaker 3: he finds is another tape player. He hits play and

1439
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:38,719
Speaker 3: it's Jigsaw's voice, a message to Zepp, Yeah, giving him

1440
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 3: a game to play woo. So Jigsaw had poisoned Zepp

1441
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 3: and said I have the antidote and you have to

1442
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:53,680
Speaker 3: kill Alison and Diana in order to get the antidote.

1443
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:58,400
Speaker 3: So basically this is the reveal that Zepp wasn't Jigsaw

1444
01:23:58,439 --> 01:23:59,000
Speaker 3: after all?

1445
01:23:59,720 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 1: But who is? And then can't then get ready for

1446
01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 1: a mighty.

1447
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:10,160
Speaker 3: The dead man who has been lying in the pool

1448
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:11,960
Speaker 3: of blood in the middle of the room throughout the

1449
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:20,360
Speaker 3: entire movie stands up. He's Jigsaw, Yeah, but who is that?

1450
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 3: He's John, the patient in Lawrence's hospital who has terminal cancer.

1451
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:33,240
Speaker 3: And he gets up and he's like, Adam, you fucking loser.

1452
01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:38,200
Speaker 1: What this says carry Ela was forgetting he's doing.

1453
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:44,880
Speaker 3: So Jigsaw is all like, Adam, you suck and you

1454
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:49,400
Speaker 3: are gonna die, and then he says game over and

1455
01:24:49,439 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 3: then he slams the door, leaving Adam to perish.

1456
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:59,679
Speaker 1: A top one hundred movie lines game over over slam.

1457
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:03,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, my blood pressure is spiking. Okay,

1458
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:06,200
Speaker 1: So I just looked at Lawrence Gordon because I was like,

1459
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:07,680
Speaker 1: it doesn't come up for a long time.

1460
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:08,080
Speaker 3: Okay.

1461
01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:14,040
Speaker 1: So Lawrence Gordon in the Saw neverse, Yeah, still canonically alive.

1462
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: So what Lawrence Gordon? This is from Scholarly Journal Wikipedia.

1463
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:21,400
Speaker 1: Lawrence Gordon is the man who diagnosed John Kramer's terminal

1464
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 1: cancer and was initially a suspect in the Jigsaw murder case.

1465
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 1: Of course, John targets Lawrence for being cold and on

1466
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:29,719
Speaker 1: carrying to others and for cheating on his wife Alison.

1467
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:34,479
Speaker 1: Lawrence is placed in a trap blah blah blah. His

1468
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:38,680
Speaker 1: fate is unknown until Saw three D, when it is

1469
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:41,799
Speaker 1: revealed that Lawrence passed out after using a hot steam

1470
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:46,360
Speaker 1: pipe to cauterize his ankle stump. John found him unconscious

1471
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:50,240
Speaker 1: shortly after and congratulated him for surviving. He then helped

1472
01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:53,640
Speaker 1: Lawrence recover and gave him a prosthetic foot. John recruited

1473
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:59,120
Speaker 1: Lawrence afterwards and used his medical skills to prepare other traps.

1474
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:01,360
Speaker 3: And this we don't learn until Saw seven.

1475
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:06,000
Speaker 1: Until Saw seven. What, Yeah, because I was I was

1476
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 1: scanning Wikipedia earlier, and I'm like, oh, I guess he lives,

1477
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:11,640
Speaker 1: but he like they there's also like flashbacks to the

1478
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:15,240
Speaker 1: first Saw movie in almost every Saw movie, right, which

1479
01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:19,720
Speaker 1: gets confusing. So after even though Jigsaw's in every movie,

1480
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:23,840
Speaker 1: Jigsaw dies in the third movie, Yeah, but you see flashbacks.

1481
01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:27,720
Speaker 1: So Tobin Bell is still getting those checks, but he's

1482
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:31,000
Speaker 1: canonically dead. Carrie el Was could be brought back at

1483
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:33,760
Speaker 1: any time. Really, I think that that is such a

1484
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:37,439
Speaker 1: wild but yeah, so then he's like brought onto the

1485
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:39,839
Speaker 1: production design team for Jigsaw.

1486
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:46,840
Speaker 3: Basically, yeah, who's on Jigsaw's team? We don't Okay, we

1487
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 3: have to talk about the movie.

1488
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 1: Okay, there's actually we've we have like say what you

1489
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:56,240
Speaker 1: will listeners, We have had some interesting discussions. So I

1490
01:26:56,640 --> 01:27:01,120
Speaker 1: think that, like truly, again, I don't think that the

1491
01:27:01,160 --> 01:27:05,840
Speaker 1: Saw franchise until apparently Spiral, which I now want to watch,

1492
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:11,960
Speaker 1: was never like trying to explicitly tackle one social issue

1493
01:27:12,840 --> 01:27:18,240
Speaker 1: because Jigsaw is it sounds like such like an understatement.

1494
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:22,600
Speaker 1: It's say, morally ambiguous, Jigsaw. It's hard to kind of

1495
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:27,200
Speaker 1: know what is moral code is and you can quote

1496
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:31,600
Speaker 1: me on that, but I do think it's like interesting

1497
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:34,720
Speaker 1: that in a movie from two thousand and four that

1498
01:27:34,920 --> 01:27:39,360
Speaker 1: there are these attempts to I think, subvert classic horror

1499
01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:42,880
Speaker 1: tropes where it feels like it's playing on our expectations

1500
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:45,800
Speaker 1: of you know, in horror movies. I feel like we

1501
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 1: are often it's often assumed that we are going to

1502
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:54,760
Speaker 1: side with the police detectives, assume that they are good

1503
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,840
Speaker 1: at their jobs, that they are morally upright, all this

1504
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,840
Speaker 1: stuff that is like inherent to Copagan, which I kind

1505
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:03,639
Speaker 1: of was like, I wonder how I forget how on

1506
01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:07,040
Speaker 1: Danny Glover's side we're supposed to be. It's pretty ambiguous,

1507
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:10,519
Speaker 1: like it is pointed at like, I don't think that

1508
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:12,799
Speaker 1: we're supposed to hate him. I don't think we're supposed

1509
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 1: to be rooting for his demise.

1510
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:19,080
Speaker 3: I think we're supposed to be on his side, even.

1511
01:28:19,240 --> 01:28:23,000
Speaker 1: He's also like really, I was sort of struggling with

1512
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:24,640
Speaker 1: it this time. I could believe in two thousand and

1513
01:28:24,640 --> 01:28:26,240
Speaker 1: four year we're supposed to but I think I can

1514
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:28,439
Speaker 1: be read in a lot of different I think.

1515
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:31,240
Speaker 3: The intention is that sorry, I mean defending a son.

1516
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:36,840
Speaker 3: I think the intention of the filmmakers is for Danny

1517
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:40,679
Speaker 3: Glover's character to be even after he gets like booted

1518
01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 3: off the force and he's doing his weird like ongoing

1519
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 3: investigation where he's mostly.

1520
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:50,080
Speaker 1: Just like hires like TMZ to like spy on Carrie

1521
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:51,200
Speaker 1: Elwa's for.

1522
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:54,400
Speaker 3: Right, And he also seems to know that because he's

1523
01:28:54,479 --> 01:28:58,160
Speaker 3: like surveilling ZEP and it seems like he because he's like,

1524
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:01,760
Speaker 3: what's this guy doing in I don't know that all

1525
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:06,600
Speaker 3: got confusing, but sensing how I think the filmmakers intended

1526
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 3: for the audience to perceive the various characters. I think

1527
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:14,160
Speaker 3: that we are supposed to be rooting for Detective tap

1528
01:29:14,240 --> 01:29:17,080
Speaker 3: slash Danny Glover, not as like the protagonist, but.

1529
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 1: Which does make sense because casting Danny Glover right, I

1530
01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:22,360
Speaker 1: feel like, also, yeah, it does kind of tell you that,

1531
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:25,040
Speaker 1: like you're not gonna put Danny Glover in a movie

1532
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:27,040
Speaker 1: and then be like we hate him because he's so

1533
01:29:27,080 --> 01:29:31,280
Speaker 1: canonically loved. Right, Okay, then I guess I'll I totally

1534
01:29:31,320 --> 01:29:34,000
Speaker 1: see what you're saying. But I do think that in retrospect,

1535
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:36,639
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different ways to look at it. Sure,

1536
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:41,320
Speaker 1: and as the series goes on, there are more explicit

1537
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 1: criticisms of police brutality and like corruption propaganda, yeah, like

1538
01:29:48,479 --> 01:29:52,320
Speaker 1: and also there are tropes at play in this movie

1539
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:59,600
Speaker 1: that are subverting nothing. So so there's a pretty intense damseling.

1540
01:29:59,640 --> 01:30:02,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that you could argue everyone in

1541
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:05,720
Speaker 1: Saw is a damsel to an extent, because that's kind

1542
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:08,000
Speaker 1: of a Jigsaw's whole thing. But it does seem like

1543
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:10,439
Speaker 1: Carrie el was his family, his wife and his daughter

1544
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:14,920
Speaker 1: are damseled in the more traditional sense right there, kept

1545
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 1: captive in their own home, and they don't appear to

1546
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:19,000
Speaker 1: have skills to get out of the situation.

1547
01:30:19,200 --> 01:30:22,840
Speaker 3: Which like the I mean, why would they kind of thing,

1548
01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:24,599
Speaker 3: But that's true for me.

1549
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:28,600
Speaker 1: They didn't go to Jigsaw boot camp like me, I

1550
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:30,960
Speaker 1: dare you put a bear trap on my head? Not

1551
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:33,920
Speaker 1: a problem, Not a problem. I'll be at dinner on time.

1552
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:36,680
Speaker 3: There should be sort of like kind of like a

1553
01:30:36,680 --> 01:30:40,479
Speaker 3: self defense class, but it's like a Jigsaw defense class.

1554
01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:43,639
Speaker 3: Like if you get trapped in a Jigsaw trap, this

1555
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:45,280
Speaker 3: is how you get out of it, and that should

1556
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:46,439
Speaker 3: be a class.

1557
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:48,680
Speaker 1: This is another Mad TV sketch from two thousand and

1558
01:30:48,720 --> 01:30:51,920
Speaker 1: seven that we should have written. It's just not fair.

1559
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:55,320
Speaker 3: Okay, So my I see what you're saying, and I think,

1560
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:57,400
Speaker 3: what this is, This is the big thing for me

1561
01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:00,920
Speaker 3: in this movie that I think otherwise holds up pretty well.

1562
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:06,200
Speaker 3: It's that the female characters, and particularly his wife and

1563
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:12,920
Speaker 3: his daughter, are mostly there to provide stakes for one

1564
01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:17,560
Speaker 3: of the male protagonists. They get captured, they get held hostage.

1565
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:21,960
Speaker 3: I would say, at least his wife, Allison, fights back

1566
01:31:22,040 --> 01:31:25,320
Speaker 3: against Zepp. She gets herself untied.

1567
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:27,799
Speaker 1: And in a way that's like realistic and didn't seem

1568
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:29,599
Speaker 1: like magic, you know.

1569
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:33,000
Speaker 3: Right right, Like she manages it because it kind of

1570
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:36,720
Speaker 3: like happens gradually and it all feels like attracts. So

1571
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 3: she gets herself untied, kind of tricks him a little bit,

1572
01:31:41,320 --> 01:31:43,519
Speaker 3: you know, waits for the opportune moment, springs a little

1573
01:31:43,560 --> 01:31:46,519
Speaker 3: trap on him, grabs the gun from Zep, holds him

1574
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:50,400
Speaker 3: at gunpoint, fights with him because he kind of fights back,

1575
01:31:50,439 --> 01:31:52,960
Speaker 3: and grabs the gun again. She then grabs a pair

1576
01:31:52,960 --> 01:31:57,439
Speaker 3: of scissors and stabs him in the leg. He while

1577
01:31:57,479 --> 01:32:01,200
Speaker 3: he's kind of pretty awesome incapacitated and then also distracted.

1578
01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:04,000
Speaker 1: Is a household object kill It is like it's not

1579
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:07,240
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's not good.

1580
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:12,799
Speaker 3: It's not one of those like traditionally, like seminin ones

1581
01:32:12,800 --> 01:32:14,760
Speaker 3: that we see a lot where it's like, oh, well,

1582
01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:17,040
Speaker 3: a woman is would be in the kitchen cooking with

1583
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:17,800
Speaker 3: a frying pant.

1584
01:32:17,960 --> 01:32:22,120
Speaker 1: Frying pant kind so it's scissors because women be crafting.

1585
01:32:22,320 --> 01:32:25,760
Speaker 1: That's my that's my that's my disingenuous.

1586
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:28,360
Speaker 3: Read honestly, if I if wanted.

1587
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:30,160
Speaker 1: To be scraped, therefore.

1588
01:32:32,360 --> 01:32:37,040
Speaker 3: Exactly so. So she stabs some scissors and then he's like,

1589
01:32:37,360 --> 01:32:39,160
Speaker 3: you know, injured. And then also I think this is

1590
01:32:39,160 --> 01:32:42,760
Speaker 3: when Danny Glover comes in, so so Zepp is distracted,

1591
01:32:43,000 --> 01:32:47,280
Speaker 3: and this gives Alison a chance for her to grab

1592
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:50,920
Speaker 3: Diana and run away. So she manages to like fight

1593
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:54,679
Speaker 3: back and escape on her own. Again, Danny Glover comes

1594
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:58,080
Speaker 3: in right around then, but he's not he doesn't save them,

1595
01:32:58,200 --> 01:33:01,479
Speaker 3: She saves herself and her daughter. Yes, So I felt

1596
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:05,599
Speaker 3: like that was kind of out of the ordinary for

1597
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:07,640
Speaker 3: what we would generally see.

1598
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:10,320
Speaker 1: Partial credit. Give partial credit on that, because I do

1599
01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:13,160
Speaker 1: agree that they are they're like Damsel for the majority

1600
01:33:13,160 --> 01:33:18,080
Speaker 1: of the movie. They're not characterized outside of giving Carrie

1601
01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:19,160
Speaker 1: Elwa's steaks.

1602
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:23,320
Speaker 3: There is kind of an attempt made at that, especially

1603
01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:29,000
Speaker 3: with the relationship between Lawrence and Alison. But it feels

1604
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:31,639
Speaker 3: so just like Half Baked and Tropy.

1605
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:34,519
Speaker 1: It's mostly like off screen too, it's mostly just like

1606
01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:38,000
Speaker 1: what you hear an argument they're having while Diana's in bed,

1607
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, you know, an attempt, sure, but not amazing,

1608
01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:50,160
Speaker 1: not amazing. It's not amazing, controversially not amazing. Did you

1609
01:33:50,240 --> 01:33:53,120
Speaker 1: know you want to know something about Lee Wannell? Tell

1610
01:33:53,160 --> 01:33:57,920
Speaker 1: me he wrote and directed The Invisible Man. Oh yeah,

1611
01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:00,320
Speaker 1: he's still at it to these days, to this damn day,

1612
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:03,439
Speaker 1: to these days, to these days, to these day. Thank

1613
01:34:03,479 --> 01:34:06,080
Speaker 1: you for I was like, maybe I didn't say that there,

1614
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:12,080
Speaker 1: but I did. I love that Lee Wannel and James

1615
01:34:12,080 --> 01:34:16,000
Speaker 1: wand they are friends till the very end. Because Lee

1616
01:34:16,040 --> 01:34:20,639
Speaker 1: Wannell's eventual, he writes, He writes the first three Saws honestly,

1617
01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 1: wan and Wanall or Wanell, depending on your mood. They

1618
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:28,679
Speaker 1: really they really set a strong foundation for the Saw franchise.

1619
01:34:28,760 --> 01:34:34,200
Speaker 1: The first three Saws, the original Saw trilogy is incredible.

1620
01:34:34,240 --> 01:34:41,920
Speaker 1: It's the full story of Jigsaw. Sorry women, yes, no,

1621
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:46,160
Speaker 1: it's it's there was an attempt made, and I guess

1622
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:47,760
Speaker 1: the best that you can say for it is it

1623
01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:49,240
Speaker 1: was good for two thousand and four.

1624
01:34:50,280 --> 01:34:54,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess, but maybe I think some tropes were subverted,

1625
01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:58,280
Speaker 3: some were very much leaned into as far as like

1626
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:02,720
Speaker 3: the characterization of women in a horror movie. Yeah, so

1627
01:35:03,120 --> 01:35:06,240
Speaker 3: I found that to be the most kind of glaring

1628
01:35:06,360 --> 01:35:12,000
Speaker 3: issue with this movie. Other than that, like I kind

1629
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:14,840
Speaker 3: of the other trope that stood out to me, I mean,

1630
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:18,920
Speaker 3: I think that this movie is still a majority white cast.

1631
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:22,760
Speaker 1: There is some diversity in the movie. However, it did

1632
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:25,760
Speaker 1: sort of like this is a trope I think we've

1633
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:28,840
Speaker 1: discussed on the show at some point, but the frequency

1634
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:32,240
Speaker 1: that people of color and like black actors specifically are

1635
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:36,080
Speaker 1: cast as cops, Yeah, as a way of kind of

1636
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:41,559
Speaker 1: tacitly endorsing the police industrial complex, which obviously has an

1637
01:35:41,560 --> 01:35:44,800
Speaker 1: adverse effect on the black community in a massive, massive way.

1638
01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:48,080
Speaker 1: And so you see a lot of characters who are

1639
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:51,680
Speaker 1: cops who were played by people of color in not

1640
01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:53,840
Speaker 1: to pull a page from Jane's Want book, but in

1641
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:56,200
Speaker 1: a bit of an insidious way.

1642
01:35:57,880 --> 01:36:02,000
Speaker 3: You might also say that it's kind of malignant.

1643
01:36:01,960 --> 01:36:07,320
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's conjuring some doubt for me, But that

1644
01:36:07,400 --> 01:36:09,240
Speaker 1: is I mean, that is a t that you know,

1645
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:13,920
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say that this was done intentionally to Like,

1646
01:36:14,160 --> 01:36:15,600
Speaker 1: I don't think they were trying to do that. I

1647
01:36:15,640 --> 01:36:18,559
Speaker 1: just think it is like a common trope that is

1648
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:23,120
Speaker 1: often kind of overlooked, and they die. They both die,

1649
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:25,679
Speaker 1: Like the two main characters who are people of color

1650
01:36:25,800 --> 01:36:30,080
Speaker 1: are cops who die, so right, we don't love that.

1651
01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:34,479
Speaker 3: I have a feeling that James wand his only intention,

1652
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:39,719
Speaker 3: i'd imagine was to just have some inclusive casting as

1653
01:36:40,160 --> 01:36:42,120
Speaker 3: a person of color himself.

1654
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:44,800
Speaker 1: And also have Danny Glover in your movie by any

1655
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:49,439
Speaker 1: means necessary, like obviously, and also I will say in

1656
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:53,479
Speaker 1: because I'll defend James Wan until I absolutely die. Like

1657
01:36:54,479 --> 01:36:58,960
Speaker 1: Lee Wannel Wannell and James Wan are Australian, They very

1658
01:36:59,000 --> 01:37:02,040
Speaker 1: well and young. They may not have been familiar with

1659
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:06,720
Speaker 1: the dark history of the American policing system outside of

1660
01:37:06,840 --> 01:37:11,479
Speaker 1: just like movies, many Americans were not aware who were

1661
01:37:11,479 --> 01:37:14,439
Speaker 1: not directly affected by it, you know, sure, So I

1662
01:37:14,439 --> 01:37:16,800
Speaker 1: don't think this was done intentionally. I just wanted to

1663
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:19,479
Speaker 1: point it out because it is. It's like, I don't

1664
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:23,439
Speaker 1: want to knock inclusive casting, right, but all are you know?

1665
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:27,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess in the context of the police

1666
01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:29,880
Speaker 1: and industrial complext Danny Glover is supposed to be a hero.

1667
01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:35,559
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. It's a complicated issue that

1668
01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:39,439
Speaker 1: this movie is like, not a particularly bad perpetrator of

1669
01:37:39,560 --> 01:37:42,880
Speaker 1: it's just whatever, very complicated discussion. Sure, but I did

1670
01:37:42,960 --> 01:37:45,599
Speaker 1: want to point out that our two main characters who

1671
01:37:45,640 --> 01:37:48,320
Speaker 1: are people of color are cast as cops who die.

1672
01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:51,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I did that did ping for me too,

1673
01:37:51,560 --> 01:37:55,920
Speaker 3: But then I thought about everyone else who dies or lives. Well,

1674
01:37:56,040 --> 01:37:59,360
Speaker 3: although I mean as far as the people who live,

1675
01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:00,640
Speaker 3: I guess.

1676
01:37:59,840 --> 01:38:03,920
Speaker 1: It apparently Lawrence lives. Jigsaw, I mean Adam.

1677
01:38:03,680 --> 01:38:07,519
Speaker 3: As far as we can tell in this movie. Just

1678
01:38:07,600 --> 01:38:12,000
Speaker 3: isolating this movie, Adam, I think we assume will die

1679
01:38:12,120 --> 01:38:14,280
Speaker 3: because he doesn't escape the escape room.

1680
01:38:14,479 --> 01:38:16,040
Speaker 1: It's kind of it was kind of giving some x

1681
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:19,559
Speaker 1: mac in a pre x macina. Right. Yeah, he's fucked

1682
01:38:19,560 --> 01:38:22,280
Speaker 1: in a similar way to Dominic Aeson.

1683
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:27,439
Speaker 3: Uh huh. It really seems like Lawrence is going to

1684
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:30,920
Speaker 3: die because he is so close to bleeding out. Wait

1685
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:35,000
Speaker 3: till twenty ten comes around. Turns out he cauterized the

1686
01:38:35,040 --> 01:38:38,160
Speaker 3: wound and passed out. Kind of the only people who

1687
01:38:38,280 --> 01:38:44,480
Speaker 3: survive are Alison, Alison and Diana and Jigsaw and Jigsaw.

1688
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:48,240
Speaker 1: So we do have whatever I not to Again, this

1689
01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:52,320
Speaker 1: is like, I don't think intentional in the story. I

1690
01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:55,000
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like any of these parts were written for

1691
01:38:55,080 --> 01:38:59,599
Speaker 1: anyone of any particular race, right, But it's just yeah,

1692
01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:01,560
Speaker 1: I just always feels like worth noting it.

1693
01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:04,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's worth pondering for sure.

1694
01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:08,360
Speaker 1: Oh. Also, the other character who we haven't talked about,

1695
01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:13,360
Speaker 1: Carla Song, who is the student that Carrie els is

1696
01:39:13,479 --> 01:39:18,439
Speaker 1: cheating with. Right, so that is we know nothing about

1697
01:39:18,439 --> 01:39:21,800
Speaker 1: this car I mean it is basically all of the

1698
01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:24,320
Speaker 1: women in this movie except for Amanda, who we should

1699
01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:29,720
Speaker 1: talk about, are there to flesh out Carrie el Wes's

1700
01:39:29,760 --> 01:39:33,600
Speaker 1: failures as a man. Sure, and Carla Song in particular

1701
01:39:34,160 --> 01:39:36,639
Speaker 1: is sort of there just to be like the student

1702
01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:39,280
Speaker 1: that he's having sex with. She has a couple of lines.

1703
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:42,360
Speaker 1: He's mostly mean to her. It is framed as bad.

1704
01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:46,960
Speaker 1: That is why Jigsaw, like Jigsaw, is very pro Carla Song,

1705
01:39:48,240 --> 01:39:51,720
Speaker 1: you think, because guess what, this isn't the last saw

1706
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:55,400
Speaker 1: thing she appears in per Wikipedia, this had this. She

1707
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:57,639
Speaker 1: shows up I think in a video game. So here's

1708
01:39:57,640 --> 01:40:01,280
Speaker 1: what happens. Oh WHOA Carlos is a medical student at

1709
01:40:01,320 --> 01:40:05,479
Speaker 1: Saint Eusta's hospital and doctor Lawrence Gordon's mistress. She plays

1710
01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:07,880
Speaker 1: a larger role in the video game Saw Too Flesh

1711
01:40:07,880 --> 01:40:10,240
Speaker 1: and Blood, where she is targeted by Jigsaw. Okay, so

1712
01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:12,120
Speaker 1: Jigsaw is actually not team Carla Song.

1713
01:40:12,479 --> 01:40:14,000
Speaker 3: Let's find out why damn?

1714
01:40:14,160 --> 01:40:17,360
Speaker 1: Where she is targeted by Jigsaw for stealing vital pharmaceuticals

1715
01:40:17,400 --> 01:40:19,559
Speaker 1: and selling them on the street for profit. She is

1716
01:40:19,560 --> 01:40:22,800
Speaker 1: found by Michael Tap. So this is like, is this

1717
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:25,679
Speaker 1: a prequel? She's found by Michael Tap with her arms

1718
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:27,840
Speaker 1: secured to the ceiling of an elevator shaft and her

1719
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:30,639
Speaker 1: legs secured to the roof of an elevator. Oh my god.

1720
01:40:31,200 --> 01:40:33,680
Speaker 1: Michael is tasked with completing a test in order to

1721
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:36,800
Speaker 1: release her safely. If he fails, the elevator will lower

1722
01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:39,800
Speaker 1: and tear Carla in half. It is revealed that she

1723
01:40:39,880 --> 01:40:42,719
Speaker 1: is a part of a criminal conspiracy. Carla.

1724
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:47,920
Speaker 3: Oh wait. Stanny Glover's character's name is David Tape.

1725
01:40:48,160 --> 01:40:48,960
Speaker 1: So who is Michael?

1726
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:51,800
Speaker 3: Maybe Michael is.

1727
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:56,839
Speaker 1: His brother's brother. Tap is a very specific Okay, wait, Michael,

1728
01:40:56,920 --> 01:41:00,479
Speaker 1: Who the hell is Michael Tap? This is so awesome.

1729
01:41:01,040 --> 01:41:05,080
Speaker 1: He No, Michael Tap is Detective David Taps a strange son.

1730
01:41:09,920 --> 01:41:14,360
Speaker 1: There is the Saw universe. Don't underestimate it. You think

1731
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:16,680
Speaker 1: Carla Song was a throwaway character, Well I did too.

1732
01:41:16,800 --> 01:41:19,560
Speaker 1: Guess what. She gets ripped in half by an elevator.

1733
01:41:19,880 --> 01:41:22,320
Speaker 1: She was not forgotten by Jigsaw, and.

1734
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:25,720
Speaker 3: That's why the Twists and Saw are the best in

1735
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:26,320
Speaker 3: the business.

1736
01:41:26,720 --> 01:41:28,880
Speaker 1: She shows up in a video game five years later.

1737
01:41:28,920 --> 01:41:33,120
Speaker 1: Are you joking? The most brilliant cinematic universe ever created.

1738
01:41:34,439 --> 01:41:37,840
Speaker 1: Last female character that also Amanda, survives. I do think

1739
01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:43,120
Speaker 1: we have. We have a lot of mostly white survivors. Yeah. Yeah,

1740
01:41:43,400 --> 01:41:46,880
Speaker 1: and they are mostly women, which is good. And they

1741
01:41:46,920 --> 01:41:50,000
Speaker 1: do all I think eventually die because it's so you

1742
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:51,880
Speaker 1: just give it a couple of years. They their days

1743
01:41:51,880 --> 01:41:54,760
Speaker 1: are numbered. Diana, I actually don't know what happens to her.

1744
01:41:54,960 --> 01:41:57,559
Speaker 1: There's there. Maybe there should be a reboot. Maybe that's

1745
01:41:57,640 --> 01:42:03,599
Speaker 1: maybe that's what I do. Maybe that's what I'm working on. Oh, okay,

1746
01:42:03,720 --> 01:42:11,040
Speaker 1: is they're alive? Okay? So all I have to say

1747
01:42:11,479 --> 01:42:14,880
Speaker 1: Amanda is our last female character, and I think our

1748
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:17,519
Speaker 1: last character that we haven't really discussed very much.

1749
01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:21,000
Speaker 3: Right, which I think will be a conduit by which

1750
01:42:21,040 --> 01:42:21,600
Speaker 3: we can I.

1751
01:42:21,600 --> 01:42:25,040
Speaker 1: Mean, we're approaching the two hour mark. Dreamie.

1752
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:29,759
Speaker 3: I've been recording for one hour and forty eight minutes.

1753
01:42:32,640 --> 01:42:36,280
Speaker 1: Okay, the Glaucus took. The clock is ticking, and at

1754
01:42:36,280 --> 01:42:39,320
Speaker 1: the end, Fleet tears his own fur off and it

1755
01:42:39,360 --> 01:42:40,439
Speaker 1: turns out it's Jigsaw.

1756
01:42:41,320 --> 01:42:42,759
Speaker 3: Oh what a twist.

1757
01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:48,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So Amanda, Yeah, Amanda is an interesting character. I

1758
01:42:48,920 --> 01:42:52,160
Speaker 1: feel like, for as much as I love talking about

1759
01:42:52,200 --> 01:42:54,080
Speaker 1: the Socks Bandit universe, let's just talk about her in

1760
01:42:54,120 --> 01:42:58,120
Speaker 1: the context of this movie, because in the subsequent movies

1761
01:42:58,160 --> 01:43:00,760
Speaker 1: she turned, she becomes an association, comes like one of

1762
01:43:00,840 --> 01:43:04,679
Speaker 1: Jigsaw's minions stream Rise of Grew.

1763
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:08,000
Speaker 3: Well, do you think she's more of a Kevin or

1764
01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:09,679
Speaker 3: more of a Stuart or more of a Bob.

1765
01:43:10,040 --> 01:43:12,519
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good question, Thank you for asking. I

1766
01:43:12,560 --> 01:43:15,200
Speaker 1: would say she's not She's not a Kevin. I wouldn't

1767
01:43:15,200 --> 01:43:17,760
Speaker 1: say that she's like, well, no, actually she may. She

1768
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:20,839
Speaker 1: may be close to Kevin because she does have leadership

1769
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:23,519
Speaker 1: qualities later on, but she doesn't need to be in charge.

1770
01:43:23,560 --> 01:43:25,439
Speaker 1: But she is kind of the head minion. And that's

1771
01:43:25,479 --> 01:43:27,760
Speaker 1: how I would describe Kevin. I think she's got a

1772
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:28,960
Speaker 1: little bit of Kevin energy.

1773
01:43:29,360 --> 01:43:31,800
Speaker 3: Sure, because Bob is like the baby one.

1774
01:43:32,200 --> 01:43:34,320
Speaker 1: Bob is the baby. Gotta love him. Stuart is the

1775
01:43:34,360 --> 01:43:40,639
Speaker 1: rebel and the rock star. Kevin he is he's funny,

1776
01:43:40,640 --> 01:43:42,800
Speaker 1: but he's you know, but he's the one that picks

1777
01:43:42,840 --> 01:43:48,840
Speaker 1: up the phone. Does Kevin le Mignons such a good

1778
01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:57,919
Speaker 1: part Bello, It's so funny. Amanda. I think is interesting

1779
01:43:57,920 --> 01:44:01,040
Speaker 1: because she is the only woman in the movie whose

1780
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:04,479
Speaker 1: steaks are not directly tied to Carrie el Was. She's

1781
01:44:04,520 --> 01:44:07,080
Speaker 1: like the only woman who stands on her own as

1782
01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:10,360
Speaker 1: a character, which kind of bears out throughout the franchise

1783
01:44:10,439 --> 01:44:13,880
Speaker 1: because the other women don't come back. She does as

1784
01:44:13,960 --> 01:44:18,120
Speaker 1: Kevin le Mignon. But I also think that it's like,

1785
01:44:19,160 --> 01:44:21,920
Speaker 1: I don't know that she's necessarily treated in a I

1786
01:44:21,920 --> 01:44:23,160
Speaker 1: don't know, what do you think. I didn't think she

1787
01:44:23,240 --> 01:44:26,679
Speaker 1: was treated in a particularly gendered way by Jigsaw. I'm

1788
01:44:26,680 --> 01:44:30,000
Speaker 1: more an issue with how they were treating her character

1789
01:44:30,160 --> 01:44:31,639
Speaker 1: as a recovering addict.

1790
01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:34,719
Speaker 3: I agree, although her bear.

1791
01:44:34,600 --> 01:44:37,040
Speaker 1: Drop on the head doesn't feel particularly gendered to me.

1792
01:44:37,160 --> 01:44:40,240
Speaker 1: It just feels like, Hey, don't do that to.

1793
01:44:40,240 --> 01:44:45,800
Speaker 3: Me, because she's only in one sequence and it's in

1794
01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:52,000
Speaker 3: a flashback where she doesn't really interact with our main characters.

1795
01:44:52,439 --> 01:44:56,760
Speaker 3: My main note about that was, why do the detectives

1796
01:44:57,479 --> 01:45:00,800
Speaker 3: have Lawrence watch her testimony.

1797
01:45:01,000 --> 01:45:02,160
Speaker 1: Amazing question.

1798
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:05,599
Speaker 3: If he's a suspect, that does I mean?

1799
01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:08,719
Speaker 1: Ultimately, Danny Glover is estrange from his son for a reason.

1800
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:12,040
Speaker 1: He's bad at his job, and I wonder, I guess

1801
01:45:12,040 --> 01:45:14,440
Speaker 1: that if you play the video game wrong, Danny Glover's

1802
01:45:14,439 --> 01:45:18,759
Speaker 1: son is also a bad cop because Carla Song gets

1803
01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:20,240
Speaker 1: torn in half by an elevator.

1804
01:45:20,280 --> 01:45:25,320
Speaker 3: Oh shit, yeah, yeah, so my when I was examining

1805
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:29,360
Speaker 3: the Amanda piece of the puzzle, if you will, if

1806
01:45:29,400 --> 01:45:31,919
Speaker 3: we're looking at this movie as if it's a puzzle,

1807
01:45:35,880 --> 01:45:41,280
Speaker 3: uh huh, why would the detectives have Lawrence watch her testimony?

1808
01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:45,679
Speaker 3: Doesn't make any sense? Good question, But yes, I don't.

1809
01:45:45,880 --> 01:45:49,200
Speaker 3: Nothing pinged for me as far as like the treatment

1810
01:45:49,240 --> 01:45:53,280
Speaker 3: of her character seems sexist. But yes, and again we

1811
01:45:53,320 --> 01:45:59,720
Speaker 3: are trying to examine the logic and morality of Jigsaw's

1812
01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:06,599
Speaker 3: code of ethics, which often doesn't make much sense.

1813
01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:13,600
Speaker 6: Yeah no, but I think the movie approaches He's chaos kadochy.

1814
01:46:13,680 --> 01:46:15,639
Speaker 6: I maybe would have to see more of the rewatch

1815
01:46:15,680 --> 01:46:19,400
Speaker 6: more of the franchise, But I wonder how much of

1816
01:46:19,800 --> 01:46:25,000
Speaker 6: this story is the filmmaker's asking the audience to be

1817
01:46:25,160 --> 01:46:30,200
Speaker 6: like well, yeah, these victims, like they're sort of deserving

1818
01:46:30,240 --> 01:46:32,599
Speaker 6: of where they're at, and whether or not they managed

1819
01:46:32,640 --> 01:46:35,640
Speaker 6: to escape is going to sort of determine, like and

1820
01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:39,280
Speaker 6: like how they feel about if they've you know, reevaluated

1821
01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:43,959
Speaker 6: their life, if they're gonna be like deserving of a redemption.

1822
01:46:44,640 --> 01:46:47,519
Speaker 6: So I'm not really sure where the movies land on,

1823
01:46:47,720 --> 01:46:48,439
Speaker 6: Like I.

1824
01:46:48,360 --> 01:46:50,439
Speaker 1: Feel like it is kind of like left up to

1825
01:46:50,560 --> 01:46:52,800
Speaker 1: you because it's like, I don't know, I mean, it's

1826
01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:54,519
Speaker 1: like one of those things where we were like, well,

1827
01:46:54,840 --> 01:46:57,479
Speaker 1: no one's leaving the theater, being like Jigsaw was one

1828
01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:03,639
Speaker 1: hundred percent correct, but except for except for the people

1829
01:47:03,640 --> 01:47:09,240
Speaker 1: who were are on a list. But I don't know.

1830
01:47:09,280 --> 01:47:11,200
Speaker 1: I feel like it's supposed to be ambiguous in a

1831
01:47:11,200 --> 01:47:13,920
Speaker 1: way that I think is like kind of interesting. And

1832
01:47:14,280 --> 01:47:18,839
Speaker 1: the more time that goes on, I think the more reads,

1833
01:47:19,040 --> 01:47:21,360
Speaker 1: whether it intended at the time or not, kind of

1834
01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:25,480
Speaker 1: become possible for the modern saw connoisseur.

1835
01:47:25,760 --> 01:47:26,679
Speaker 3: Sure if you will.

1836
01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:30,439
Speaker 1: I wanted to say something really quickly about the guy

1837
01:47:30,479 --> 01:47:34,120
Speaker 1: who designs the saw traps, so Saw one, you don't

1838
01:47:34,240 --> 01:47:36,600
Speaker 1: they're all it's such a I mean, this movie was

1839
01:47:36,600 --> 01:47:39,280
Speaker 1: made for a million dollars, which is wild because you're like,

1840
01:47:39,520 --> 01:47:42,120
Speaker 1: isn't that just like how much Danny Glover would make

1841
01:47:42,280 --> 01:47:45,439
Speaker 1: for showing up? Apparently it was a labor of love.

1842
01:47:45,560 --> 01:47:48,599
Speaker 1: Carrie Elle Was and Danny Glover both very big stars,

1843
01:47:49,200 --> 01:47:51,519
Speaker 1: Danny Glover more so, but Carrie Elle was, you know,

1844
01:47:51,640 --> 01:47:54,559
Speaker 1: a well known actor, like kind of wild that they

1845
01:47:54,960 --> 01:48:00,840
Speaker 1: were in this Australian movie by two twenty five year olds. Also,

1846
01:48:01,080 --> 01:48:03,000
Speaker 1: but I think that that's beautiful. I like that.

1847
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:07,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I also like I don't know enough about like actors' salaries.

1848
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:11,280
Speaker 3: You hear about like Tom Cruise gets twenty million dollars

1849
01:48:11,280 --> 01:48:13,759
Speaker 3: for every mission Impossible movie, and then I think people

1850
01:48:13,800 --> 01:48:19,040
Speaker 3: assume that like most stars make that on every movie

1851
01:48:19,080 --> 01:48:21,000
Speaker 3: there is sure, but I feel like, you know, like

1852
01:48:21,640 --> 01:48:25,680
Speaker 3: not as bankable of stars, and like character actors and

1853
01:48:25,680 --> 01:48:29,479
Speaker 3: stuff like make a far more modest living, you know,

1854
01:48:29,600 --> 01:48:33,280
Speaker 3: and like I think Glover pretty bankable, pretty bankable for sure,

1855
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:35,360
Speaker 3: But I don't I don't know, I don't know how

1856
01:48:35,439 --> 01:48:37,360
Speaker 3: much she was paid for this anyways.

1857
01:48:37,439 --> 01:48:39,280
Speaker 1: I wonder if he was kind of like in a

1858
01:48:39,560 --> 01:48:41,559
Speaker 1: I don't know, or maybe it's one of those one

1859
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:43,720
Speaker 1: for me, one for them, and the one for me

1860
01:48:43,960 --> 01:48:48,160
Speaker 1: is saw could be Saw one two thousand and four. Yeah,

1861
01:48:48,439 --> 01:48:51,400
Speaker 1: that would be the one for me. Uh, make no mistake.

1862
01:48:51,479 --> 01:48:53,160
Speaker 1: What else was he in around this time? Yeah? I

1863
01:48:53,160 --> 01:48:54,360
Speaker 1: guess that this wasn't like a.

1864
01:48:54,439 --> 01:48:56,720
Speaker 3: Well, his heyday was more in like the eighties with

1865
01:48:56,720 --> 01:48:58,320
Speaker 3: like lethal weapons.

1866
01:48:58,040 --> 01:49:01,959
Speaker 1: Eighties and nineties. Yeah. So he's making his indie comeback

1867
01:49:02,280 --> 01:49:05,000
Speaker 1: and Saw one, and I think he I mean, his

1868
01:49:05,120 --> 01:49:08,080
Speaker 1: character is so weird, but I always love watching Danny Glover,

1869
01:49:08,160 --> 01:49:11,360
Speaker 1: So there you got. I mean. Yeah, So, anyways, Saw one,

1870
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:14,200
Speaker 1: the budget is very low. James Wand literally makes the

1871
01:49:14,280 --> 01:49:18,400
Speaker 1: Jigsaw doll himself with paper mache. Kind of amazing. Saw

1872
01:49:18,720 --> 01:49:22,720
Speaker 1: two and onwards. I believe they get a guy to

1873
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:25,920
Speaker 1: design the traps, which is really cool. They have this

1874
01:49:26,160 --> 01:49:30,120
Speaker 1: art director who comes on Saw two through five, which

1875
01:49:30,160 --> 01:49:32,800
Speaker 1: is where all the iconic ones are. His name is

1876
01:49:32,880 --> 01:49:34,760
Speaker 1: David Hackle. I just wanted to give him a quick

1877
01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:37,639
Speaker 1: shout out because he designed some of the most horrific

1878
01:49:37,640 --> 01:49:40,240
Speaker 1: shit I've ever seen in my entire life. They describe

1879
01:49:40,479 --> 01:49:42,919
Speaker 1: from Saw too the pile of needles that I remembered.

1880
01:49:43,680 --> 01:49:47,880
Speaker 1: He and his department had to spend two weeks with

1881
01:49:47,960 --> 01:49:52,320
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty thousand syringes individually removing the needle

1882
01:49:52,360 --> 01:49:54,759
Speaker 1: and replacing it with something that wouldn't hurt the actor.

1883
01:49:55,120 --> 01:49:56,400
Speaker 3: Whoa, I know.

1884
01:49:56,760 --> 01:50:00,639
Speaker 1: What the craft, the raw craft been of the sawt

1885
01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:05,120
Speaker 1: franchise iconic. It's iconic. Blow, it blows one's mind, not

1886
01:50:05,240 --> 01:50:10,800
Speaker 1: to be underestimated. In conclusion, I think this is an

1887
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:15,200
Speaker 1: amazing movie. I love that it launched James Wand's career.

1888
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:20,040
Speaker 1: There are I mean, it's It's also rare, unfortunately in

1889
01:50:20,320 --> 01:50:24,599
Speaker 1: Hollywood filmmaking for an Asian director to be making movies

1890
01:50:24,680 --> 01:50:27,639
Speaker 1: on this scale. But again, this movie kind of isn't

1891
01:50:27,640 --> 01:50:30,280
Speaker 1: on this scale. He only is making Aquaman movies now

1892
01:50:30,479 --> 01:50:33,920
Speaker 1: because he, you know, was up till four in the

1893
01:50:33,920 --> 01:50:37,760
Speaker 1: morning in Australia making a little jigsaw at his house.

1894
01:50:37,880 --> 01:50:41,120
Speaker 1: I think it's inspiring. Yeah, it makes me want to

1895
01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:41,639
Speaker 1: be better.

1896
01:50:42,120 --> 01:50:44,280
Speaker 3: It's the kind of inspiring thing that again would be

1897
01:50:44,320 --> 01:50:46,759
Speaker 3: on Viola Davis's Instagram feed.

1898
01:50:47,320 --> 01:50:50,920
Speaker 1: It's true and apparently this was like Saw was. Also

1899
01:50:51,000 --> 01:50:55,000
Speaker 1: there's something called Saw zero point five which I've never seen,

1900
01:50:55,120 --> 01:50:56,960
Speaker 1: but I guess this was like similar to what we

1901
01:50:57,000 --> 01:50:58,599
Speaker 1: do in the Shadouts. It was a short film they

1902
01:50:58,600 --> 01:51:00,760
Speaker 1: made that was then turned into a few, so that's

1903
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:02,920
Speaker 1: how they got a million dollars to make the feature.

1904
01:51:03,280 --> 01:51:06,679
Speaker 1: What they made a Saw short and that's why Lee

1905
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:08,960
Speaker 1: Wannel is in the movie is because he was in

1906
01:51:09,080 --> 01:51:10,400
Speaker 1: Saw zero point five.

1907
01:51:10,640 --> 01:51:14,360
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, I did read that on scholarly journal Wikipedia.

1908
01:51:15,800 --> 01:51:20,200
Speaker 3: I have a quick list of just kind of stray observations.

1909
01:51:20,600 --> 01:51:23,639
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna just to the listeners. It is almost

1910
01:51:23,680 --> 01:51:27,559
Speaker 1: two hours, but we'll edit it well.

1911
01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:32,800
Speaker 3: Ed recording a hour.

1912
01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:35,360
Speaker 1: And what are yours? I want to know your strays.

1913
01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:39,760
Speaker 3: Okay, real quick. I appreciate that there is representation on

1914
01:51:39,880 --> 01:51:46,320
Speaker 3: screen of men being really bad at throwing and catching

1915
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:53,800
Speaker 3: because they are tossing around keys, tapes, saws, cigarettes, lighters,

1916
01:51:54,040 --> 01:51:58,120
Speaker 3: photographs and the only thing that either of them actually

1917
01:51:58,160 --> 01:52:01,840
Speaker 3: catches is one time when Lawrence catches the tape player.

1918
01:52:02,320 --> 01:52:07,120
Speaker 3: Everything else they throw and catch terribly. It's bad, and

1919
01:52:07,400 --> 01:52:11,519
Speaker 3: I thought it was hilarious to watch. Another thing, Adam

1920
01:52:11,800 --> 01:52:14,600
Speaker 3: does not wash off his hand after sticking it in

1921
01:52:14,680 --> 01:52:17,759
Speaker 3: the toilet bowl, which seems to be full of liquid shit.

1922
01:52:18,479 --> 01:52:21,960
Speaker 3: There was like clean water in the toilet tank, but

1923
01:52:22,000 --> 01:52:24,559
Speaker 3: he does not clean off his hand and he just

1924
01:52:24,680 --> 01:52:27,960
Speaker 3: keeps it all poopy for the rest of the movie. Disgusting, horrible,

1925
01:52:28,600 --> 01:52:33,160
Speaker 3: Alison runs so slowly to her daughter's room when she

1926
01:52:33,320 --> 01:52:38,280
Speaker 3: hears Diana screaming when she's being abducted, she does a

1927
01:52:38,320 --> 01:52:43,960
Speaker 3: brisk walk. Shout out to the diorama that mister Saw

1928
01:52:44,080 --> 01:52:49,080
Speaker 3: aka Jigsaw made of the bathroom escape Room So funny,

1929
01:52:49,120 --> 01:52:51,160
Speaker 3: which we see.

1930
01:52:51,120 --> 01:52:53,840
Speaker 1: Are you up to well? Are you doing?

1931
01:52:54,880 --> 01:52:57,840
Speaker 3: I like to think that James Wand also made that himself.

1932
01:52:57,880 --> 01:52:59,200
Speaker 3: He was like, I just need this.

1933
01:52:59,360 --> 01:53:04,439
Speaker 1: Honestly, not unlikely based on what I have heard and

1934
01:53:04,439 --> 01:53:06,920
Speaker 1: read about this movie. Yep.

1935
01:53:07,720 --> 01:53:13,280
Speaker 3: Shout out to the line where Adam says, my last girlfriend,

1936
01:53:13,520 --> 01:53:17,320
Speaker 3: a feminist vegan punk, broke up with me because she

1937
01:53:17,720 --> 01:53:19,559
Speaker 3: thought I was too angry.

1938
01:53:19,800 --> 01:53:24,599
Speaker 1: And then you're like, okay, time to kill him. Yes, exactly, Okay, Jigsaw,

1939
01:53:24,600 --> 01:53:26,200
Speaker 1: game over Slam done.

1940
01:53:26,240 --> 01:53:29,240
Speaker 3: There's a part where Danny Glover yells at Zepp. Also

1941
01:53:29,320 --> 01:53:34,040
Speaker 3: the fact that there's a character named Zepp. So Danny

1942
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:37,880
Speaker 3: Glover says, I'm going to kill you, you sick ass hoe.

1943
01:53:40,600 --> 01:53:41,160
Speaker 1: Amazing.

1944
01:53:41,880 --> 01:53:46,559
Speaker 3: Okay, here's a fun thing I rewound.

1945
01:53:46,800 --> 01:53:47,559
Speaker 1: Maybe that's not.

1946
01:53:47,479 --> 01:53:49,320
Speaker 3: What he says, but it sounds sound.

1947
01:53:49,640 --> 01:53:52,280
Speaker 1: No, let's just say, let's just say it. Yeah.

1948
01:53:52,400 --> 01:53:59,720
Speaker 3: Carrie you Willis plays a doctor in the movie New

1949
01:53:59,800 --> 01:54:03,200
Speaker 3: Years Eve, and I like to think that he's playing

1950
01:54:03,200 --> 01:54:07,760
Speaker 3: the same character in that movie and in the Saw movies.

1951
01:54:07,439 --> 01:54:11,120
Speaker 1: Because he lives right, he cauterizes world right.

1952
01:54:11,160 --> 01:54:13,680
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, he has a prosthetic foot. So I

1953
01:54:13,760 --> 01:54:17,439
Speaker 3: think that the Saw movies and New Year's Eve take

1954
01:54:17,479 --> 01:54:18,719
Speaker 3: place in the same universe.

1955
01:54:18,880 --> 01:54:20,920
Speaker 1: I believe that. Okay, I'm in, I'm in.

1956
01:54:21,320 --> 01:54:24,879
Speaker 3: I had a quick question did escape rooms exist before

1957
01:54:25,160 --> 01:54:29,559
Speaker 3: the movie Saw, because they didn't really become popular until after.

1958
01:54:29,960 --> 01:54:33,520
Speaker 3: But I goog I did some research and it turns

1959
01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:38,200
Speaker 3: out kind of the first like modern escape room with

1960
01:54:38,280 --> 01:54:44,800
Speaker 3: something called True Dungeon in Indianapolis, Indiana, USA. It premiered

1961
01:54:44,880 --> 01:54:48,600
Speaker 3: in July two thousand and three, but they didn't become

1962
01:54:48,640 --> 01:54:51,560
Speaker 3: popular until like the twenty tens. I would say, and

1963
01:54:51,600 --> 01:54:54,680
Speaker 3: I wonder if Saw help popular.

1964
01:54:55,360 --> 01:54:58,400
Speaker 1: You have to imagine escape rooms Saw how a hand

1965
01:54:58,400 --> 01:55:01,720
Speaker 1: in it. I think so, if not Patient zero. I

1966
01:55:01,800 --> 01:55:03,960
Speaker 1: also wanted to shout out the guy who plays Zep

1967
01:55:04,240 --> 01:55:07,120
Speaker 1: was on Lost, and then once I learned that I couldn't.

1968
01:55:07,600 --> 01:55:09,800
Speaker 1: I didn't notice at first, but then on my rewatch

1969
01:55:09,800 --> 01:55:11,920
Speaker 1: and we're like, wait a second. I was forced to

1970
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:14,880
Speaker 1: watch Lost ones He's on like a lot of the show.

1971
01:55:15,120 --> 01:55:19,320
Speaker 3: He's definitely in Lost. Also in Lost is ken Ling,

1972
01:55:19,720 --> 01:55:22,400
Speaker 3: the actor who plays Yes Detective Sing And I was like,

1973
01:55:22,640 --> 01:55:25,280
Speaker 3: is the whole cast of Lost in the movie Saw?

1974
01:55:25,480 --> 01:55:29,800
Speaker 1: And if so, did jj Abrams just watch Saw and

1975
01:55:29,840 --> 01:55:32,320
Speaker 1: be like, Now, this is a hell of a cast

1976
01:55:32,360 --> 01:55:35,760
Speaker 1: because Lost premieres in late two thousand and four. So

1977
01:55:36,760 --> 01:55:43,320
Speaker 1: what do you think about that? The jj Abrams James Wanstan,

1978
01:55:43,720 --> 01:55:46,280
Speaker 1: I would believe it. I hope so he knows what's

1979
01:55:46,320 --> 01:55:46,880
Speaker 1: good for him.

1980
01:55:46,920 --> 01:55:51,960
Speaker 3: And then my final thing is The soundtrack of the

1981
01:55:52,000 --> 01:56:02,720
Speaker 3: movie Saw was reviewed by Johnny Loftus AH.

1982
01:56:01,440 --> 01:56:07,280
Speaker 1: And five stars. Right, Okay, it's my pseudonym. This is hilarious.

1983
01:56:07,760 --> 01:56:12,800
Speaker 3: Johnny Loftus of AllMusic gave the soundtrack of Saw three

1984
01:56:13,080 --> 01:56:17,600
Speaker 3: out of five stars, AH, saying that the composer whose

1985
01:56:17,680 --> 01:56:22,080
Speaker 3: name is uh oh shit Klauser, don't know his first name.

1986
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:27,960
Speaker 1: Though, Look, Hans Zimmer couldn't do it. Hans Zimmer couldn't

1987
01:56:28,040 --> 01:56:30,520
Speaker 1: make it happen the way that whoever this person is.

1988
01:56:30,720 --> 01:56:34,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the composer of the Saw score quote really

1989
01:56:34,920 --> 01:56:38,880
Speaker 3: nails it with his creaky clammy score, which makes you

1990
01:56:38,920 --> 01:56:41,800
Speaker 3: think that if he thinks he nails it, why only

1991
01:56:41,880 --> 01:56:43,320
Speaker 3: three out of five stars.

1992
01:56:43,600 --> 01:56:46,760
Speaker 1: That shit makes me so mad when someone writes you

1993
01:56:46,920 --> 01:56:49,320
Speaker 1: essentially a good review and then they're like, I give

1994
01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:51,320
Speaker 1: it a C minus and you're like for what.

1995
01:56:51,960 --> 01:56:54,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, who were you said you liked it?

1996
01:56:54,400 --> 01:56:59,000
Speaker 1: Scottish theater reviewer or whomever sounds like you liked the

1997
01:56:59,080 --> 01:57:01,680
Speaker 1: show in you'd give it three out of five stars.

1998
01:57:01,920 --> 01:57:12,080
Speaker 1: Table flip unbelievable. Johnny loftus Johnny Lofts, It's interesting that

1999
01:57:12,160 --> 01:57:14,520
Speaker 1: you would say that when Jigsaw is still at large.

2000
01:57:14,720 --> 01:57:19,360
Speaker 1: I'll say that, what are you implying je or is

2001
01:57:19,400 --> 01:57:24,000
Speaker 1: it Johnny Lofts Jigsaw Lock.

2002
01:57:26,840 --> 01:57:33,000
Speaker 3: Jiggy Jiggy Loft. I'm sorry that I just made you

2003
01:57:33,040 --> 01:57:34,280
Speaker 3: spit out your diet coke.

2004
01:57:36,240 --> 01:57:43,000
Speaker 1: It's all right, it's He'll be okay. Oh boy, well

2005
01:57:43,840 --> 01:57:45,680
Speaker 1: would you look at that. It's time for me to

2006
01:57:45,720 --> 01:57:48,240
Speaker 1: cut my foot off. Yeah.

2007
01:57:48,320 --> 01:57:50,920
Speaker 3: Oops, we did record for two hours and six minutes,

2008
01:57:50,960 --> 01:57:53,240
Speaker 3: so we both have to cut our feet off.

2009
01:57:53,280 --> 01:57:55,360
Speaker 1: There's someone at the door and it looks like the

2010
01:57:55,360 --> 01:57:56,160
Speaker 1: game might be over.

2011
01:57:56,680 --> 01:57:57,360
Speaker 3: The game is over?

2012
01:58:00,680 --> 01:58:02,800
Speaker 1: Can we start playing that? At the end of every app.

2013
01:58:05,320 --> 01:58:08,840
Speaker 3: Game over slam and then the episode's over.

2014
01:58:09,120 --> 01:58:12,440
Speaker 1: That's basically how every That's how every podcast episode should

2015
01:58:13,800 --> 01:58:19,120
Speaker 1: game over slam. Oh god, okay, So does this movie

2016
01:58:19,160 --> 01:58:23,320
Speaker 1: pass the viable test? I don't think so there's okay,

2017
01:58:23,360 --> 01:58:29,080
Speaker 1: hang on, Okay. So Diana goes to her mom's bedside

2018
01:58:29,360 --> 01:58:31,760
Speaker 1: and Allison says, are you okay?

2019
01:58:32,000 --> 01:58:35,640
Speaker 3: Can you hear me? And Diana says mommy, and she says,

2020
01:58:35,680 --> 01:58:38,640
Speaker 3: what is it, sweet pea? But then she's like, there's

2021
01:58:38,680 --> 01:58:40,440
Speaker 3: a man in my room. And then I talk about

2022
01:58:40,480 --> 01:58:41,840
Speaker 3: the man in her room for a little bit, and

2023
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:43,920
Speaker 3: then she's like, I want Daddy to get the scary

2024
01:58:43,960 --> 01:58:48,480
Speaker 3: man away. So that one is up for debate because

2025
01:58:48,520 --> 01:58:51,400
Speaker 3: it starts out passing, but then the ultimately the conversation,

2026
01:58:51,440 --> 01:58:53,720
Speaker 3: the whole conversation is about the scary man, and then

2027
01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:55,280
Speaker 3: Daddy's saving them.

2028
01:58:55,400 --> 01:58:55,760
Speaker 1: Oh.

2029
01:58:55,800 --> 01:58:59,800
Speaker 3: There's another interaction later on where Alison is like, I

2030
01:58:59,840 --> 01:59:01,960
Speaker 3: need you to be really really strong for me, but

2031
01:59:02,240 --> 01:59:05,880
Speaker 3: like Diana's just kind of like crying. And also the

2032
01:59:05,920 --> 01:59:09,400
Speaker 3: context is like they're scared because a scary man has

2033
01:59:09,440 --> 01:59:13,000
Speaker 3: abducted them and might kill them. So I feel like,

2034
01:59:13,160 --> 01:59:17,400
Speaker 3: probably no. But there is some interactions and.

2035
01:59:17,360 --> 01:59:20,480
Speaker 1: There's some healthy debate over on Bechdel test dot com

2036
01:59:20,880 --> 01:59:24,480
Speaker 1: about whether this passes. There's like two people go absolutely

2037
01:59:24,560 --> 01:59:28,640
Speaker 1: going at it in the comments, trying to decide whether

2038
01:59:28,680 --> 01:59:32,160
Speaker 1: those two scenes you just describe constitute a past or not.

2039
01:59:32,200 --> 01:59:36,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it doesn't constitute it. Unfortunately, I agree. Yeah,

2040
01:59:36,880 --> 01:59:41,360
Speaker 1: I look, it's a flawed metric and yeah, but it's

2041
01:59:41,360 --> 01:59:43,920
Speaker 1: also not a feminist movie. Like you know, this movie

2042
01:59:44,720 --> 01:59:47,480
Speaker 1: is an ally to no one because it's about Jigsaw,

2043
01:59:48,240 --> 01:59:52,000
Speaker 1: who is an ally to no one. He has no

2044
01:59:52,040 --> 01:59:54,840
Speaker 1: love in his heart except he does, except he practices.

2045
01:59:54,960 --> 01:59:57,120
Speaker 1: I feel like he does. Jigsaw is the bad side

2046
01:59:57,120 --> 01:59:59,880
Speaker 1: of wellness culpture because he's like practice gratitude, but he

2047
02:00:00,120 --> 02:00:04,600
Speaker 1: absolutely diabolical, scariest person in the world, but always screaming

2048
02:00:04,640 --> 02:00:09,200
Speaker 1: about gratitude. Okay, nipple scale who tough?

2049
02:00:09,240 --> 02:00:12,600
Speaker 3: Wow, I feel like this movie defies the scale.

2050
02:00:13,160 --> 02:00:14,440
Speaker 1: I honestly kind of did too.

2051
02:00:16,280 --> 02:00:21,520
Speaker 3: I mean, there's not that much that made me feel horrified.

2052
02:00:22,080 --> 02:00:25,839
Speaker 3: From a representation standpoint, I felt horrified.

2053
02:00:25,920 --> 02:00:27,880
Speaker 1: No, it's mostly I mean, especially for a movie of

2054
02:00:27,920 --> 02:00:30,080
Speaker 1: this era, I was expecting to us to have way

2055
02:00:30,120 --> 02:00:34,720
Speaker 1: more non ambiguous bad shit to talk about it because.

2056
02:00:34,480 --> 02:00:38,960
Speaker 3: It was this era. I feel like especially that regardless

2057
02:00:39,000 --> 02:00:41,960
Speaker 3: of what the movie was about or what genre it

2058
02:00:42,040 --> 02:00:47,480
Speaker 3: was in, you would just have characters randomly dropping homophobic slurs,

2059
02:00:48,520 --> 02:00:54,400
Speaker 3: making racist comments seemingly randomly, like just absolutely.

2060
02:00:53,840 --> 02:00:56,080
Speaker 1: Needless on one in one El's.

2061
02:00:55,840 --> 02:00:59,920
Speaker 3: Watch, certainly not so not that that one.

2062
02:01:00,400 --> 02:01:03,160
Speaker 1: Except for that one disparage and comment from Adam. I

2063
02:01:03,200 --> 02:01:03,880
Speaker 1: think that that was.

2064
02:01:04,160 --> 02:01:06,840
Speaker 3: Literally the feminists are angry.

2065
02:01:06,640 --> 02:01:09,240
Speaker 1: But that was like and also that character sucks. So

2066
02:01:09,280 --> 02:01:11,200
Speaker 1: I could also see it being like, oh, here's a

2067
02:01:11,240 --> 02:01:12,400
Speaker 1: reason to not like this guy.

2068
02:01:12,720 --> 02:01:16,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he presumably dies at the end. We're not sure.

2069
02:01:16,640 --> 02:01:18,680
Speaker 1: I don't think he does in the universe, but who does.

2070
02:01:19,440 --> 02:01:24,480
Speaker 3: Ultimately, Okay, I think I just need to give this

2071
02:01:24,520 --> 02:01:24,840
Speaker 3: like a.

2072
02:01:25,040 --> 02:01:29,600
Speaker 1: Is it like a two nipples? It's so hard because

2073
02:01:29,600 --> 02:01:33,880
Speaker 1: you're like, but I don't, Yeah, I guess, yeah, I

2074
02:01:33,880 --> 02:01:35,960
Speaker 1: guess I'll just go right down the middle. I'll say

2075
02:01:35,960 --> 02:01:39,280
Speaker 1: two and a half. There's nothing wrong. But it's also

2076
02:01:39,360 --> 02:01:43,760
Speaker 1: not like its mission is not to further a discussion

2077
02:01:43,800 --> 02:01:45,240
Speaker 1: of anything, except like.

2078
02:01:45,800 --> 02:01:50,400
Speaker 3: I beg is a feminist masterpiece.

2079
02:01:50,880 --> 02:01:53,120
Speaker 1: I mean, that is kind of what I believe, but

2080
02:01:53,240 --> 02:01:55,560
Speaker 1: I know that it's bad practice to say so, and

2081
02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:59,839
Speaker 1: it will decrease my credibility in the eyes of a listeners. Ultimately,

2082
02:01:59,880 --> 02:02:02,720
Speaker 1: I do think that this is still one of my

2083
02:02:02,760 --> 02:02:04,560
Speaker 1: favorite movies. I had no.

2084
02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:06,680
Speaker 3: Idea you were so into the Sauna verse.

2085
02:02:07,360 --> 02:02:10,040
Speaker 1: It's weird because I really just like Saw. One is

2086
02:02:10,080 --> 02:02:13,080
Speaker 1: such a classic and it's not like a comfort movie.

2087
02:02:13,120 --> 02:02:15,240
Speaker 1: But I watched Saw about like once a year. I

2088
02:02:15,320 --> 02:02:18,160
Speaker 1: enjoy Saw quite a bit, and I love James Wand

2089
02:02:18,440 --> 02:02:20,800
Speaker 1: And the more I feel like James Wand I got

2090
02:02:20,840 --> 02:02:24,440
Speaker 1: really into late last year because I was working with

2091
02:02:24,480 --> 02:02:29,040
Speaker 1: Sarah Marshall on something about the couple from the Conjuring movies,

2092
02:02:29,680 --> 02:02:32,160
Speaker 1: and so I got deep into the Wanta verse. And

2093
02:02:32,200 --> 02:02:34,360
Speaker 1: those movies are not good, but I still love James

2094
02:02:34,440 --> 02:02:37,200
Speaker 1: Wand So what can you do? I would get this

2095
02:02:37,240 --> 02:02:41,320
Speaker 1: movie two and a half nipples and five hundred little jigsaws.

2096
02:02:41,800 --> 02:02:45,480
Speaker 3: Oh oh yeah, what was I thinking? Yeah, a five

2097
02:02:45,560 --> 02:02:46,920
Speaker 3: hundred piece jigsaw puzzle.

2098
02:02:47,160 --> 02:02:47,680
Speaker 1: Exactly.

2099
02:02:47,920 --> 02:02:53,320
Speaker 3: See, I'd give it a thousand pieces of a jigsaw puzzle.

2100
02:02:53,800 --> 02:02:55,680
Speaker 1: I really want there to be more jigsaws.

2101
02:02:56,000 --> 02:02:58,640
Speaker 3: Here's what I'm going to do, because you gave me

2102
02:02:58,680 --> 02:03:02,879
Speaker 3: an idea just the Saw movies for my movie marathon

2103
02:03:03,000 --> 02:03:08,040
Speaker 3: this Halloween season. I'm going to do Hallo Wan and

2104
02:03:08,080 --> 02:03:09,840
Speaker 3: then we can watch more Lignan again because I've never

2105
02:03:09,840 --> 02:03:11,760
Speaker 3: seen Insidious. The insidious movies.

2106
02:03:12,240 --> 02:03:16,440
Speaker 1: Insidious is pretty fun. I say, let's I would advocate

2107
02:03:16,480 --> 02:03:18,920
Speaker 1: for us watching Conjuring one and maybe then calling it

2108
02:03:18,960 --> 02:03:21,560
Speaker 1: a day. By the time you get to the Conjuring

2109
02:03:21,600 --> 02:03:23,560
Speaker 1: the Devil that made me do it, you're like, this

2110
02:03:23,640 --> 02:03:28,480
Speaker 1: is too much, too much, too much. But we could

2111
02:03:28,480 --> 02:03:31,960
Speaker 1: watch Annabelle because that's pretty good. I was not James

2112
02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:35,040
Speaker 1: want directed. But this is part of the Wanaverse, part.

2113
02:03:34,880 --> 02:03:37,680
Speaker 3: Of the universe. Yeah, exactly. Wow.

2114
02:03:37,880 --> 02:03:40,640
Speaker 1: And then he's got the new Aquaman coming out at

2115
02:03:40,720 --> 02:03:42,680
Speaker 1: some point, question mark, I don't.

2116
02:03:42,480 --> 02:03:46,320
Speaker 3: Know, true well anyway.

2117
02:03:45,040 --> 02:03:48,200
Speaker 1: And I love that Lee Wandell, Like I really enjoyed

2118
02:03:48,200 --> 02:03:52,040
Speaker 1: the Invisible Man. I didn't realize that it was Adam

2119
02:03:52,040 --> 02:03:56,120
Speaker 1: from Saul question why? Good shit. Also, they're such good

2120
02:03:56,160 --> 02:03:59,840
Speaker 1: friends that Lee Wannell had a cameo in Aquaman. Oh

2121
02:04:00,080 --> 02:04:00,600
Speaker 1: is that cute?

2122
02:04:00,680 --> 02:04:03,200
Speaker 3: That is very cute. I like that they're still friends.

2123
02:04:03,680 --> 02:04:09,720
Speaker 1: It's cute. Okay, Well, Caitlin, thank you for talking about

2124
02:04:09,760 --> 02:04:11,760
Speaker 1: Saw with me for my birthday. I love Saw.

2125
02:04:12,320 --> 02:04:14,760
Speaker 3: Hey, happy belated birthday.

2126
02:04:15,000 --> 02:04:18,640
Speaker 1: It's it's over now, but look but but but I

2127
02:04:18,720 --> 02:04:23,360
Speaker 1: live on until Jigsaw gets me. What an amazing movie.

2128
02:04:23,640 --> 02:04:26,640
Speaker 1: I had a great time listeners. We hope you had

2129
02:04:26,680 --> 02:04:29,000
Speaker 1: a good time, because we sure did.

2130
02:04:30,000 --> 02:04:31,200
Speaker 3: We sure did.

2131
02:04:32,640 --> 02:04:35,120
Speaker 1: Please found off in the comments with what I'm sure

2132
02:04:35,600 --> 02:04:39,800
Speaker 1: was me getting canon incorrect. Let's discuss if anyone has

2133
02:04:39,800 --> 02:04:42,600
Speaker 1: a baby Jigsaw doll. I do have buyer's remorse for

2134
02:04:42,720 --> 02:04:43,440
Speaker 1: not getting it.

2135
02:04:44,800 --> 02:04:46,760
Speaker 3: Wait does such a thing exist already?

2136
02:04:47,400 --> 02:04:52,560
Speaker 1: Some sicko on Etsy made baby Jigsaw and I failed

2137
02:04:52,560 --> 02:04:54,320
Speaker 1: to buy it, and then when I went to check,

2138
02:04:55,080 --> 02:04:57,600
Speaker 1: someone else, bafflingly had purchased it.

2139
02:04:57,680 --> 02:05:00,480
Speaker 3: So it was just like a one time one done

2140
02:05:00,760 --> 02:05:01,520
Speaker 3: and want it done.

2141
02:05:01,640 --> 02:05:07,600
Speaker 1: An independent creator, an artist made baby Jigsaw and I

2142
02:05:07,760 --> 02:05:09,440
Speaker 1: fucked up, and I was like I would be afraid

2143
02:05:09,440 --> 02:05:11,200
Speaker 1: of that, which I would have been, but it would

2144
02:05:11,200 --> 02:05:11,920
Speaker 1: have been nice to have.

2145
02:05:12,520 --> 02:05:19,960
Speaker 3: Wow, I know, I know. Okay, that is the end?

2146
02:05:20,480 --> 02:05:23,840
Speaker 3: Uh or that's where we're cutting out of the Matreon episode.

2147
02:05:24,000 --> 02:05:27,320
Speaker 1: Kaeln Yeah, Jamie, Oh wait how much how much time

2148
02:05:27,360 --> 02:05:28,520
Speaker 1: do we have? Less?

2149
02:05:28,640 --> 02:05:30,920
Speaker 3: We're definitely over two hours?

2150
02:05:31,320 --> 02:05:32,120
Speaker 1: No?

2151
02:05:32,120 --> 02:05:39,640
Speaker 3: No oh, no, here comes someone. Hi, it's me No Jigsaw.

2152
02:05:39,880 --> 02:05:43,000
Speaker 1: No wait, Jigsaw, just make sure first before you kill us.

2153
02:05:43,280 --> 02:05:47,520
Speaker 1: Please subscribe to the Matreon. Please cut a patreon dot

2154
02:05:47,560 --> 02:05:49,840
Speaker 1: com slash bectl cass if you enjoyed this episode and

2155
02:05:49,920 --> 02:05:53,120
Speaker 1: get over one hundred and fifty bonus episodes not available

2156
02:05:53,160 --> 02:05:55,400
Speaker 1: on the main feed for the low price of five

2157
02:05:55,440 --> 02:05:59,120
Speaker 1: dollars a month. Jigsaw please oh consider it.

2158
02:05:59,640 --> 02:06:04,120
Speaker 3: But but since the episode was over two hours long,

2159
02:06:04,800 --> 02:06:07,640
Speaker 3: guess what what? Game over?

2160
02:06:09,240 --> 02:06:12,960
Speaker 1: Swam Bye Bye.

2161
02:06:25,280 --> 02:06:28,600
Speaker 3: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

2162
02:06:28,640 --> 02:06:32,520
Speaker 3: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

2163
02:06:32,640 --> 02:06:35,800
Speaker 3: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

2164
02:06:35,920 --> 02:06:40,280
Speaker 3: Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo in merch

2165
02:06:40,440 --> 02:06:43,400
Speaker 3: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

2166
02:06:43,440 --> 02:06:47,840
Speaker 3: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

2167
02:06:47,880 --> 02:06:49,480
Speaker 3: linktree slash Bechdel Cast