Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth podcast. The Hey Joe addition, as we
Speaker 1: discuss Joe Burrow, other NFL draft prospects, and what the
Speaker 1: data says about the Bengals roster with Pro Football Focus
Speaker 1: analyst Austin Gale, we'll discuss the draft, free agency, and
Speaker 1: Sunday Super Bowl matchup between the Chiefs and forty nine Ers,
Speaker 1: And as the NFL celebrates its one hundredth season, we'll
Speaker 1: do fun facts with one of two Bengals selected to
Speaker 1: the NFL's all time team, offensive lineman Anthony Munio's. All
Speaker 1: of that is straight ahead, but first, here's a quick
Speaker 1: reminder that you can have the latest edition of this
Speaker 1: podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by
Speaker 1: subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or pod Bean.
Speaker 1: It's the greatest thing since the movie Parasite. Parasite is
Speaker 1: a Korean movie that won the top prize and supposedly
Speaker 1: received an eight minute standing ovation at the Khan Film Festival,
Speaker 1: and it's one of nine Best Picture nominees for this
Speaker 1: year's Academy Awards. Despite the name, it's not a horror movie.
Speaker 1: It's a dark comedy with some chilling twists, and in
Speaker 1: my opinion, it's outstanding. So if you don't mind movies
Speaker 1: with subtitles, I highly recommend Parasite. Now, let's get to football.
Speaker 1: The most influential source of advanced statistics in football is
Speaker 1: the website Pro Football Focus. It was founded in the
Speaker 1: United Kingdom more than a decade ago, and then in
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, former Bengals wide receiver Chris Collinsworth purchased a
Speaker 1: majority stake in the company and moved it to downtown Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: PF now has more than eighty full time employees and
Speaker 1: provides data to all thirty two NFL teams, as well
Speaker 1: as fans, fantasy football players, and people who are into
Speaker 1: the NFL Draft. This week, I met with one of
Speaker 1: PF's top analysts about the draft, free agency, and Sunday
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. We are hanging out in a downtown coffee
Speaker 1: shop with Pro Football Focus analyst Austin Gale. There's construction
Speaker 1: going on at PF and downtown Cincinnati, so we've moved
Speaker 1: a few blocks away to talk about the draft, about
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl, and about the Bengals. Let's start with
Speaker 1: a topic that's on every Bengals fans mind. Joe Burrow.
Speaker 1: He had the highest rated season by a college quarterback
Speaker 1: ever in the Pro Football Focus era. And we've all
Speaker 1: seen the traditional stats seventy six percent completion percentage, sixty
Speaker 1: touchdown passes, six interceptions. But how about some of the
Speaker 1: Pro Football Focus stats that demonstrate just how great he
Speaker 1: was this year. Yeah, I mean to start with that
Speaker 1: highest graded season ever in the PF college era. That's
Speaker 1: dating back to twenty fourteen when we first started grading
Speaker 1: college quarterbacks. And what really stands out for me is
Speaker 1: that that grade came against SEC competition. You look at
Speaker 1: this list of top fifteen seasons in the college era,
Speaker 1: so much of it is in the Group of five,
Speaker 1: so much of it is in the Big twelve. Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow is one of two quarterbacks in the top fifteen
Speaker 1: from the SEC Joe Burrow to Attack of Bloa. That's
Speaker 1: what's really incredible for me, that level of competition. Doing
Speaker 1: it against that level of competition is incredible. And as
Speaker 1: for the stats that kind of go into that, really,
Speaker 1: how you grade well in PFF system at the college
Speaker 1: and NFL level is being accurate. Joe Burrow is the
Speaker 1: most accurate college quarterback we've ever seen. Looking at throws
Speaker 1: of ten plus are yards he had who was accurate
Speaker 1: on target over sixty five percent of the time. The
Speaker 1: previous record was Baker Mayfield at fifty six percent of
Speaker 1: the time. This is absurd. You just don't see this
Speaker 1: level of accuracy at the college level. Yes, he's an
Speaker 1: older prospect, Yes he's kind of you know, doing it
Speaker 1: in a very good something that Joe Brady had. But man,
Speaker 1: this guy's really accurate, and that's really what put him
Speaker 1: in another level from a grading perspective. We have coffee
Speaker 1: beans being ground in the background. I'm glad you brought
Speaker 1: up that ten air yards statistic because so many times
Speaker 1: in college football we see these ridiculous completion percentages and
Speaker 1: it's because they're throwing bubble screens, they're throwing sideways. Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow pressed the ball down the field, Oh absolutely. And
Speaker 1: talking to NFL guys, scouts and analysts and also media,
Speaker 1: you know, Daniel Jeremiah, guys from the athletic they love
Speaker 1: what PF data can do and what we can see
Speaker 1: by separating that accut remove screens, remove play action. Look
Speaker 1: at these throws on standard dropbacks ten plus yards down
Speaker 1: the football field, and how does he grade out? Joe Burrow,
Speaker 1: hands down the best quarterback in college football on these
Speaker 1: NFL level throws. And you go beyond that, we can
Speaker 1: sort and look at tight window throws. When he's fitting
Speaker 1: it in two tight windows. How on target is he
Speaker 1: again the most accurate quarterback in college football? And talking
Speaker 1: to our data scientists here at PFF, George Johurri and
Speaker 1: Air Eager, these guys see that accuracy at the college
Speaker 1: level on target percentage or things that translate the most
Speaker 1: most recently or most frequently to the NFL level. So
Speaker 1: being accurate is so important and why it really ranks
Speaker 1: high in our grading system. Our guest is Austin gayale
Speaker 1: An analysts from Pro Football Focus. Are there any red
Speaker 1: flags where Joe Burrow is concerned? Yeah, I think there's
Speaker 1: two that come to mind. One, it's the age. He's
Speaker 1: an older prospect. I think he'll turn twenty four here
Speaker 1: pretty soon. But and that's a concern because you're going
Speaker 1: to get some younger guys and like that experience in
Speaker 1: that age and that maturity plays a factor in how
Speaker 1: you develop. You compare him to a guy like to
Speaker 1: a tongue of maloa who's had NFL ready pocket present
Speaker 1: since he was eighteen years old. With Joe Burrow, that
Speaker 1: can be a little bit of a concern. It's not
Speaker 1: Brandon Weedon level of concerns he was coming out like
Speaker 1: twenty eight, twenty nine, but age is something. If you
Speaker 1: had to pull a red flag on a guy who's
Speaker 1: going to be the number one overall bit come twenty
Speaker 1: twenty draft, that is where I kind of sit. The
Speaker 1: other one is the system. I mean, Joe Brady, there's
Speaker 1: a reason he's coaching in the NFL right now. He
Speaker 1: put together a system that really elevated Joe burrows game.
Speaker 1: I think, however, accuracy, regardless of system, shows up when
Speaker 1: you're accurate, not with the supporting cast or those things.
Speaker 1: That's why we really feel comfortable pushing those red flags
Speaker 1: a bit away, because if you're as accurate as Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow is, I think that's really what's most impressive. How
Speaker 1: does Joe Burrow compare to Tuah or Justin Herbert are
Speaker 1: the other quarterbacks in this draft? Yeah? In this draft,
Speaker 1: he's the best, and all the drafts that we really covered,
Speaker 1: I think he's the best. He's the best college football
Speaker 1: quarterback from a prospect perspective we've ever really seen. And
Speaker 1: I think the comparisons between Tuah and Joe Burrow, it's
Speaker 1: hard to not bring up the injury. There's so much
Speaker 1: injury risk with to a tongue of iloa. I think
Speaker 1: he's a great quarterback. He's the only quarterback and PFF
Speaker 1: college era that's created above ninety point zero in back
Speaker 1: to back seasons. That's how good this guy is. The
Speaker 1: injury risk, however, puts him a tier. Blow also doesn't
Speaker 1: have the arm talent that Joe Burrow has. There's some
Speaker 1: inconsistent he's not as accurate. No one is as accurate
Speaker 1: as Joe Burrow. And as for Justin Herbert, the concerns
Speaker 1: the red flags in his game really are. It does
Speaker 1: not rise to the occasion against good competition. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think he's not a game or in that regard.
Speaker 1: I think he grades well on air. He looks great
Speaker 1: and pads and should I in shorts and things like
Speaker 1: six foot six, great hair, good looking kid, very smart dude.
Speaker 1: But when you look at games against Utah, you look
Speaker 1: at games against Arizona, these games were like, hey, this
Speaker 1: is a muscle. The Auburn games start the season, he
Speaker 1: does not rise to the occasion. He's not the reason
Speaker 1: these organ Ducks win. But with Burrow, he's the reason.
Speaker 1: I think that's why you feel more comfortable translating him
Speaker 1: to the next level. Does PFF have a great hair metric?
Speaker 1: We don't, But I mean, if I had to put
Speaker 1: Justin Herbert's on a scale, it's above ninety. I mean,
Speaker 1: I saw him at the Senior Bowl. This guy's got
Speaker 1: a good head of hair. We're talking to Ousten Gale
Speaker 1: from Pro Football Focus. Is there a case to be
Speaker 1: made for Chase Young number one overall? Part of me
Speaker 1: wants to kind of dodge us a bit, but I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and say it. No, there is not
Speaker 1: a case for Chase Shown to go number one overall. One.
Speaker 1: We think Joe Burrows a better prospect. Two. Positional value matters.
Speaker 1: It's something you cannot ignore. In the NFL, the quarterback
Speaker 1: position moves the needle more than any other position on
Speaker 1: the football field. It's the picture of the NFL. But
Speaker 1: he plays every game, unlike your number one picture in baseball.
Speaker 1: I mean, the positional value is again very similar to
Speaker 1: goalies in the NHL, like you just don't get better
Speaker 1: looking at PF's wins above replacement metric war and something
Speaker 1: that we're selling the NFL and college teams now these
Speaker 1: days looks at positional value and see ow that weighs
Speaker 1: in the quarterback position oftentimes is eight to ten times
Speaker 1: better than the best edge defender in football. That's like
Speaker 1: the needle movers are quarterbacks. You don't a single defensive
Speaker 1: player does not move the needle in the upward direction,
Speaker 1: even if he is this generational talent, everyone thinks he
Speaker 1: is like a quarterback does, even an average quarterback does
Speaker 1: compared to a guy like Chaw And that shows in
Speaker 1: the number one overall pick in the draft, and four
Speaker 1: out of the last five years it's been a quarterback
Speaker 1: Kyler Murray last year, Baker Mayfield two years ago. You
Speaker 1: had Miles Garrett in there the year before that, but
Speaker 1: then Jared Goff and Jamis Winston. How does Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: compare to those guys? Again, and I don't say this lightly,
Speaker 1: but he is the best college football prospect we've seen
Speaker 1: him better than Baker Mayfield. And PFF was high on
Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield the October before that draft, really loved what
Speaker 1: he did and reason why we like Baker Mayfield where
Speaker 1: a lot of the same reasons we like Joe Burrow.
Speaker 1: Good inside and outside of structure, very accurate with the
Speaker 1: football on these NFL throws. What's different is Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: did it better, better from an accuracy standpoint, better on
Speaker 1: those NFL throws, and he did it against SEC competition.
Speaker 1: I don't say that lightly. Like I said, of the
Speaker 1: top fifteen graded seasons at the college level, I want
Speaker 1: to say only there's only two players in that top
Speaker 1: fifteen that are from the SEC. It's Joe Burrow into
Speaker 1: a tongue of bailo. I think other guys like Will
Speaker 1: gree are Big twelve, Mason Fine, Group of five, Baker Mayfield,
Speaker 1: Kyler Murray, those other guys are going against what is
Speaker 1: unquestionably lower level competition. SEC is a different breed. More
Speaker 1: NFL talent comes out of that conference than any other conference.
Speaker 1: I think that's why we're really so high on Burrow.
Speaker 1: We're talking to Austin Gale from Pro Football Focus. You
Speaker 1: were in Mobile, Alabama for the Senior Bowl. Let's look
Speaker 1: at this from a Bengals perspective. Who are some of
Speaker 1: the guys who would be a good fit for Cincinnati. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's a good question. I think there's some
Speaker 1: offensive line helped down Inmobile that really impressed me. Jonah Jackson,
Speaker 1: the guard out of Ohio State who's a Rutger's transfer,
Speaker 1: so not a lot of people knew about him till
Speaker 1: he went Ohio State. Then he goes to Ohio State,
Speaker 1: really really impresses down. Immobile guy is like really top heavy,
Speaker 1: looks like he's got a mini fridge under his shoulder
Speaker 1: pads and you're kind of scared of his lower half.
Speaker 1: But he's got great balance, great in pass protection, a
Speaker 1: malla in the run game. I think Bengals need offensive
Speaker 1: line help. I know they have Jonah Williams coming back,
Speaker 1: but they still need offensive line help. I think Jonah
Speaker 1: Jackson was a name that stood out for me others there.
Speaker 1: This receiving class is deep and it's very good. Michael Pittman,
Speaker 1: junior of USC as a guy I think in the
Speaker 1: second round starts to make sense for the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 1: kJ Hill Ohio State, had himself a week Inmobile, and
Speaker 1: Denzel Mims. Of all three of those guys broke our
Speaker 1: top one hundred after the Senior Bowl. I mean those
Speaker 1: guys were really special players as well. So there were
Speaker 1: guys that were not at the Senior Bowl for a
Speaker 1: wide variety of reasons, maybe eligible juniors, things like that.
Speaker 1: So when we're looking at the number one pick in
Speaker 1: the second round, number thirty three overall, who do you
Speaker 1: think might be there? Who are some of the guys
Speaker 1: that you think the Bengals could be possibly targeting at
Speaker 1: number thirty three? Yeah, I think I jumped to the
Speaker 1: cornerback position. I think after Jeffrey Akudo, who I think
Speaker 1: is a lock for the top five, the Ohio State kid,
Speaker 1: former five star dude. It's got all the length, athleticism,
Speaker 1: ball production off the charts. After that, the cornerback position
Speaker 1: is going to go quick because there's not a lot
Speaker 1: of true number one guys. Christian Fulton accepted his invite
Speaker 1: to the Senior Bowl but did not attend for reasons
Speaker 1: I think that were unclear. I think because he knows
Speaker 1: he's going high in this draft. I think there's a
Speaker 1: chance because I think he's not super scheme burstyle, wants
Speaker 1: to play a kind of a man heavy scheme. I
Speaker 1: think he could have success at the top of round two.
Speaker 1: He's the guy that I like. And then as for others,
Speaker 1: think Justin Jefferson. If you wanted to pair Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: with this guy out of LSU, Justin Jefferson. He's very
Speaker 1: close to Tyler Boyd. I think they're very similar players
Speaker 1: and that they can play inside and outside, but maybe
Speaker 1: are better off on the inside. I think give Tyler
Speaker 1: Boyd Justin Jefferson, two guys that catch everything, create separation
Speaker 1: and against zone, very crafty, mindful receivers, you start to
Speaker 1: get even better with Joe Burrow in your one. Did
Speaker 1: the Bengals coaching staff make an impression in any way
Speaker 1: with how they handled the South roster at the Senior Bowl? Yes, one,
Speaker 1: because I think they handled the practice is better. I
Speaker 1: think you saw a handful of things on Twitter and
Speaker 1: other analysts say like why are the Detroit Lions doing
Speaker 1: some things they do? They were doing blocking drills and
Speaker 1: things like that. They didn't really give as many opportunities
Speaker 1: as the Bengals coaching staff did to see how these
Speaker 1: players performed in one on ones. You talk to scouts,
Speaker 1: you talk to media, you talk to the players one
Speaker 1: on ones or where the money is made. I talked
Speaker 1: to kJ Hill, Ohio State receiver, right after practice one.
Speaker 1: He said, I know I need to be good in
Speaker 1: the one on ones. That's all I'm really focusing on
Speaker 1: this week. And I think the Bengals did a really
Speaker 1: good job of putting so many one on ones on
Speaker 1: tape so they could really evaluate the players as well.
Speaker 1: We're talking to Austin Gale from Pro Football Focus. I
Speaker 1: want to turn the clock back to my first year's
Speaker 1: the Bengals announcer twenty eleven. Early in that season, Pro
Speaker 1: Football Focus had a story where they referred to Geno
Speaker 1: Atkins as a secret superstar, and I remember thinking at
Speaker 1: the time, nobody was saying that yet about Geno Atkins.
Speaker 1: At the end of that year, he went to the
Speaker 1: first of his eight Pro Bowl. So I really thought
Speaker 1: that Pro Football Focus helped get the word out that
Speaker 1: Geno Atkins was going to be a great player. Are
Speaker 1: there any breakout candidates on the Bengals current roster? I
Speaker 1: have a handful. I mean I do like a handful
Speaker 1: of the younger players on the Bengals roster. I'm still
Speaker 1: going to say, Carl Lawson, if this guy could just
Speaker 1: get healthy, I do think he's one of the better
Speaker 1: pass rushers in the NFL. Throw arm lengthd out the window.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, this guy has it. I think in
Speaker 1: the small sample sizes he's grated very well for PFF use,
Speaker 1: effectively and healthy. He's a breakout candidate for me and
Speaker 1: Jonah Williams. I mean, Jonah Williams didn't get a chance
Speaker 1: to play this year due to an injury, which you
Speaker 1: did not expect coming out of Alabama. This guy was
Speaker 1: a workhorse, played a ton of snaps for the Crimson Tide.
Speaker 1: We loved his tape coming out again. Throw the arm
Speaker 1: length out the window. He was asked that question a
Speaker 1: handful of times in the draft process. But super smart kid.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but I had
Speaker 1: a chance to to him before the draft. Before the
Speaker 1: Bengals did draft him. This guy charts every single player
Speaker 1: that he's about to go against how they win his
Speaker 1: pass rushers outside inside bullrush and creates an Excel and
Speaker 1: a Spider chart of how they win and studies that
Speaker 1: at four games. This guy's PF legend. I mean, we
Speaker 1: love what this guy does. From a data perspective. He
Speaker 1: uses data to analyze and get better on film. He's
Speaker 1: so smart between the years that I just can't imagine
Speaker 1: this guy not having a good NFL career because he's
Speaker 1: just too smart, athletically gifted and great production at Alabama.
Speaker 1: When his career is over, he could be working with
Speaker 1: you and gantn Cincinnati. Absolutely I would welcome it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I interview I probably interviewed probably twenty five to fifty
Speaker 1: prospects every year. Jonah Williams in the five six years
Speaker 1: I've been doing this is the most is the best
Speaker 1: interview I've ever had. He's just such a smart guy,
Speaker 1: and smart smart is very important at the offensive line position.
Speaker 1: You need tackles and even guards centers to be smart
Speaker 1: to understand protections, different play calls, et cetera. But he's
Speaker 1: on another level of smart comparing to the other guys
Speaker 1: I talked to. I think Jonah Williams again that commitment
Speaker 1: to getting better. This guy wants to be the best
Speaker 1: in the league and has all the tools, mind, physical,
Speaker 1: all that stuff to really be it for sure. Let
Speaker 1: me follow up on the offensive line. Pro Football Focus
Speaker 1: ranked all thirty two offensive lines. The two Super Bowl
Speaker 1: teams I was surprised are not at the top, San
Speaker 1: Francisco number fourteen, Kansas City number sixteen. So I guess
Speaker 1: if you have a great quarterback like Patrick Mahomes or
Speaker 1: an incredible scheme like San Francisco, you can get around
Speaker 1: that a little bit. But the Bengals were number thirty.
Speaker 1: The only two teams that graded lower were the Rams
Speaker 1: and the Dolphins. When you look at the Bengals offensive line,
Speaker 1: you plug in Jonah Williams at left tackle. Next year.
Speaker 1: They gave a contract extension to Trey Hopkins, so he'll
Speaker 1: be the center. Are they good enough anywhere else on
Speaker 1: the offensive line? I would I would argue no, And
Speaker 1: I know that's aggressive and throwing you know, throwing somewhat
Speaker 1: level of shade at John Miller, Billy Price, the kid
Speaker 1: at Michael Jordan of Ohio State. Right tackle. Bobby Hart
Speaker 1: is not great well for us. He has not great
Speaker 1: well for us really in his entire NFL career. And
Speaker 1: seeing when they did give him that contract extension last year,
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember being in the office, real head
Speaker 1: scratch was across the spoort. Did not see that coming.
Speaker 1: And I think the problem the problem with that is,
Speaker 1: I think you mentioned the Super Bowl teams good quarterbacks
Speaker 1: don't welcome pressure like bad quarterbacks. We've seen that sack
Speaker 1: sacks and pressures and pressure rate can often be a
Speaker 1: quarterback stat more often than it is an offensive line stat.
Speaker 1: We talk to current and former NFL offensive lineman and
Speaker 1: they bang the table for that kind of data analysis,
Speaker 1: knowing that there are quarterbacks like Deshaun Watson that welcome
Speaker 1: pressure bring pressure more often than you know at Patrick
Speaker 1: Mahomes or things like that. But I will say this,
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow, if he does actually get picked number one overall,
Speaker 1: which I think all signs point to, he is very
Speaker 1: good under pressure and he does not welcome it. That's
Speaker 1: why I feel comfortable with the Bengals maybe going other
Speaker 1: directions at the top of the draft and maybe even
Speaker 1: in free agency, because Joe Burrows a guy that does
Speaker 1: not make an average offensive line look worse. He's a
Speaker 1: guy that makes an average offensive line looks so much
Speaker 1: better with what he does, what he does inside outside
Speaker 1: of structure, in terms of going through his progressions, etc.
Speaker 1: We're picking the brain of Austin Gale from Pro Football
Speaker 1: Focus based on PFF dada, where else should the Bengals
Speaker 1: be looking to upgrade cornerback, cornerback, cornerback, cornerback, because I mean,
Speaker 1: you cannot have a good enough good cornerbacks in this league.
Speaker 1: And I know William Jackson had a very good season
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, But what we've seen at PF, cornerback
Speaker 1: is the second most valuable position on the football field,
Speaker 1: right behind quarterback. It's distant after quarterback, but it is
Speaker 1: number two. But it's also one of the most volatile
Speaker 1: year over year. You do not you rarely see cornerbacks
Speaker 1: like a Durrell Reeves, Patrick Peterson, Jillen Ramsey have the
Speaker 1: consistency from a production standpoint because and a lot of
Speaker 1: this is because a bad play at cornerback is a touchdown,
Speaker 1: a bad play at tackle is just a sack. And
Speaker 1: I think you see that production, that volatility in those big,
Speaker 1: big plays have a factor and really good cornerbacks dropping
Speaker 1: year or whatever it may be. But again, stepping away
Speaker 1: from the volatility of the position, the value of position
Speaker 1: rings true. I think there are a ton of cornerbacks
Speaker 1: in this class. There's also some cornerbacks on the free
Speaker 1: agent market that the Bengals should be looking to grab
Speaker 1: because your defense gets better with coverage you look at
Speaker 1: the Chiefs defense they're playing in the Super Bowl. Big
Speaker 1: question mark in the offseason is can their defense get better?
Speaker 1: It was not because they added to the pass rush.
Speaker 1: It was because guys like Tyronne Matthew, Juan Thornhill and
Speaker 1: stepping up from Kendall Fuller that made this defense better,
Speaker 1: made the quarterback hold the ball longer. And therefore now they're,
Speaker 1: you know, up there with a top sixteen defense going
Speaker 1: into the Super Bowl with a really good offense. And
Speaker 1: this is really interesting to me because when I asked
Speaker 1: the question, where does the data show the Bengals need
Speaker 1: to upgrade, you said cornerback. Cornerback, cornerback. Every Bengals fan
Speaker 1: listening would have anticipated you would have said linebacker. Linebacker, linebacker.
Speaker 1: So here here, I'll say it right now, off bowl.
Speaker 1: Linebacker is not a valuable position on the football field.
Speaker 1: It's not one of which that you need to fill
Speaker 1: necessarily and ignore positional value, ignore you know the best
Speaker 1: player available and fill that need largely because they don't
Speaker 1: have as big of an impact on coverage and they
Speaker 1: do not rush the passer. They are oftentimes picked on schematically,
Speaker 1: it's hard to you know, there are coverage linebackers in
Speaker 1: the NFL that make a difference. One was Luke Keekley
Speaker 1: I know, a Cincinnati guy, and another one is now
Speaker 1: Bobby Wagner. After that, it's a scrum. There are not
Speaker 1: a ton of otball linebackers that really are difference makers,
Speaker 1: and for that reason, trying to fill that need at
Speaker 1: the top of day two would be horrendous. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's close to the running back position from a positional
Speaker 1: value standpoint. That's why having a good cornerback that doesn't
Speaker 1: get beat deep is more important in my opinion than
Speaker 1: outball linebacker. Fill that position in the later rounds. Fill
Speaker 1: that position in free agency with bargain deals. Talking to
Speaker 1: Austin Gayale, you mentioned free agency, so let's get to
Speaker 1: that next. The Bengals have not historically gone after the
Speaker 1: highest priced free agents. Maybe that changes this year. We'll see.
Speaker 1: But are there any current free agents, especially mid level guys,
Speaker 1: who could help. I think a name to keep an
Speaker 1: eye on, and I know he's mulling retirement a bit,
Speaker 1: but as Anthony Costanzo, he's played a lot of left
Speaker 1: tackle in his career. But if he does not want
Speaker 1: to hang up the cleats and he wants to play
Speaker 1: right tackle, potentially for the Bengals. I think that's a
Speaker 1: guy that could come at a relative bargain. He's not
Speaker 1: going to ask for a long term deal, obviously, He's
Speaker 1: a name that I like it As a free agent
Speaker 1: in the offseason, I think it's hard not to bring
Speaker 1: up the big name guys, the guys that will draw
Speaker 1: a lot of money. But if they can dig through
Speaker 1: the couches and find enough money. Bringing Byron Jones of
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys, that's a difference maker. At the cornerback position,
Speaker 1: I think you're better off spending two at certain positions
Speaker 1: like cornerback, Like offensive line, we see at PF filling
Speaker 1: needs with rookies rarely pans out. The only position that
Speaker 1: we see like rookies really excel at out of the
Speaker 1: gate is running back. For obvious reasons, it's a position
Speaker 1: that ages quickly. But offensive line you don't really get
Speaker 1: plus production until year two, year three. You don't get
Speaker 1: plus production from cornerbacks even sometimes receivers until those years
Speaker 1: as well. So looking at free ancy to fill a
Speaker 1: positions of need is more important than looking to fill
Speaker 1: positions of need in the draft. So I think offensive line,
Speaker 1: maybe finding a tackle opposite of Jonah Williams and then
Speaker 1: cornerback again. To dig through these guys. Anthony Harris to
Speaker 1: eight in Minnesota. To pair him up with looks of
Speaker 1: my name, I'm wake Forest guys. Second year Jesse Bates,
Speaker 1: Jesse Bates. Yeah with Jesse Bates. Pair him up with
Speaker 1: Jesse Bates. Invest in the defensive backs in best in
Speaker 1: the offensive line if you can find them interior annex here.
Speaker 1: All right, this has been excellent. Let's get to Sunday
Speaker 1: Super Bowl San Francisco, Kansas City. Who wins and why
Speaker 1: I'm going the Kansas City Chiefs. So I think the
Speaker 1: better quarterbacks, the better passing offenses win in the postseason,
Speaker 1: and that's really what we've seen. I think the San
Speaker 1: Francisco forty nine ers are fantastic. We've seen them get
Speaker 1: into a shootout with the New Orleans Saints and win.
Speaker 1: But this Chiefs team goes up. They can go up quickly,
Speaker 1: and I don't think they let their foot off the
Speaker 1: gas pedal. Look at this Houston Texans game. They come
Speaker 1: back in that game, I think they're up twenty points
Speaker 1: at a certain point, they continue to throw the football.
Speaker 1: They continue to push down the field. Aggressiveness again, Aggressiveness
Speaker 1: passing the football really wins in the postseason. I think
Speaker 1: Andy Reid is calling masterfully down on the sideline. Patrick
Speaker 1: Mahomes playing some of his best football of his career,
Speaker 1: Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelsey matches across the board. This forty
Speaker 1: nine Ers team, if they get a lead, keeps this close.
Speaker 1: But I think if Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs fine
Speaker 1: way to go up fourteen, go up even ten early
Speaker 1: in this game, and they keep the gas pedal down,
Speaker 1: I think this Chiefs team wins pretty handily. I'm big
Speaker 1: on the Chiefs. Wow. Now, I'm thinking San Francisco's running
Speaker 1: game at least gives them a chance to keep Mahomes
Speaker 1: off the field enough. He's still gonna throw three touchdown passes,
Speaker 1: but maybe you can prevent him from throwing four or
Speaker 1: five by holding onto the ball for thirty five minutes. No,
Speaker 1: and I would agree with you. So the Chiefs have
Speaker 1: the thirtieth ranked run defense and EPA per play their
Speaker 1: thirty second against outside zone. The forty nine Ers are
Speaker 1: licking their chops at this defense. However, you get Patrick
Speaker 1: Mahomes the ball first and running the football though effective
Speaker 1: takes time piece by piece, time of possession those things,
Speaker 1: and with more opportunity comes randomness of turnovers and things
Speaker 1: like that. You miss a play when a run heavy
Speaker 1: offense and then Patrick Mahomes comes by a score seven
Speaker 1: in two minutes. I think that's what makes things difficult
Speaker 1: to lean on this run game. But again, San Francisco's
Speaker 1: in this game for a reason, and they've been able
Speaker 1: to dominate the trenches all year long offensively and defensively.
Speaker 1: It's up to Kansas City again. The way they win
Speaker 1: this game is score early. They don't. I think San
Speaker 1: Francisco can really keep that, you know, push down on
Speaker 1: them and run through them and win this game. This
Speaker 1: has been awesome. I can't thank you enough. I was
Speaker 1: in on Pro Football Focus early and I read it religiously.
Speaker 1: For those who do not subscribe, here's your opportunity to
Speaker 1: tell them why they should. Yeah, I mean, go to
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Speaker 1: you do subscribe, that's where you really unlock the advanced statistics,
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Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. I really do think what PFF offers
Speaker 1: within their subscription makes you a smarter, better NFL fan,
Speaker 1: regardless of interest, whether you're just trying to figure out
Speaker 1: who's the Bengal is going to take or who should
Speaker 1: they take, or playing fantasy football. There's a lot to
Speaker 1: offer from PFF. Appreciate your time, of course, Thank you. Hi.
Speaker 1: Thanks to Austin and you can follow him on Twitter
Speaker 1: at PF Underscore Austin Gail. Again, that's PF Underscore Austin
Speaker 1: Gail and he spells his last name g A y
Speaker 1: l E. In celebration of the NFL's one hundredth season,
Speaker 1: the league unveiled an all time team, and two Bengals
Speaker 1: were selected. Paul Brown was one of ten head coaches,
Speaker 1: and Anthony Munio's was among the one hundred players selected.
Speaker 1: Anthony is widely considered to be the greatest offensive lineman
Speaker 1: in pro football history. He was an eleven time Pro Bowler,
Speaker 1: the starting left tackle on both of the Bengal Super
Speaker 1: Bowl teams, and a first ballot Hall of Famer. Perhaps
Speaker 1: you knew all of that, but in this fun facts
Speaker 1: conversation you might learn something new about the greatest player
Speaker 1: enfranchise history. Time for some fantastic fun facts with Hall
Speaker 1: of Famer Anthony Munos, and let's start with something fun
Speaker 1: for this one. Do you have the gold Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame jacket at home? Or do they keep those in
Speaker 1: a closet in Canton? It is in my closet at home,
Speaker 1: so yes, I have it hanging with all my other
Speaker 1: sport coats in the suits in my closets, so I
Speaker 1: have control of it. Do you ever let anybody try
Speaker 1: that on? Or is that a strict no. No? I
Speaker 1: have not actually let anybody try. Nobody's asked, so I
Speaker 1: haven't been faced with saying no to anybody. All right,
Speaker 1: let's turn the clock back a little bit. There's a
Speaker 1: picture of you on the internet as a twelve year
Speaker 1: old little leaguer and you are about a foot taller
Speaker 1: than your teammates. You're as tall as your coach. Were
Speaker 1: you comfortable being the biggest kid or were you self
Speaker 1: conscious about your size? Well? I think my family really
Speaker 1: made it comfortable for me. I mean, there's kids are kids.
Speaker 1: So you know, kids are gonna say things when they
Speaker 1: see your feet twice as big as there's. But for
Speaker 1: the most part, I'd have to say I was pretty comfortable.
Speaker 1: You know. It's funny you mentioned that Little League picture.
Speaker 1: My mom actually had to sew some extra material so
Speaker 1: I could keep my jersey tuched in. But yeah, it
Speaker 1: was you know, I thought it was kind of cool
Speaker 1: at times. Most of the times, I really thought it
Speaker 1: was nice that I was large because my friends, my
Speaker 1: really close friends, really it didn't matter that I was,
Speaker 1: you know, head taller than them. They they accepted me
Speaker 1: just as a friend. We're doing fund Facts with Anthony Munio.
Speaker 1: Is Is it true though, that you were too big
Speaker 1: to play youth football as a kid. I was. I
Speaker 1: would have never met the you know, the height and
Speaker 1: weight restriction, so I never really tried because I knew
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't be able to. So really, baseball is
Speaker 1: my first love, and you know the extent of my
Speaker 1: football playing days before I started playing organized which was
Speaker 1: flag football, was just on our home field and that
Speaker 1: was the street in front of our house. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: it was one of those things where you know, I
Speaker 1: heard that I really couldn't because of my size, so
Speaker 1: I really didn't make that attempt to go play. You
Speaker 1: mentioned baseball. You went to USC, and some people might
Speaker 1: not realize that you were a pitcher. I'm in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy eighteen to one a national championship for the College
Speaker 1: World Series. You strike me as a closer. How are
Speaker 1: you used and what did you throw? I didn't play
Speaker 1: my freshman year because of injuries, so that was actually
Speaker 1: my sophomore year at school there. Because it was my
Speaker 1: first year, a lot of I'm going to admit, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't have an ego. It was mop up jobs,
Speaker 1: and you know, so I got one win. I got
Speaker 1: to pitch about eleven innings that year. The year, as
Speaker 1: you mentioned, we won the World Series and we had
Speaker 1: four guys that were in double figure wins that year, so,
Speaker 1: you know the I was thrilled to get that many
Speaker 1: innings that year. Anthony, your college football career was severely
Speaker 1: limited in terms of games played by knee injuries. You
Speaker 1: had three surgical procedures on your knees at USC. Did
Speaker 1: you ever think this football thing just isn't meant to be?
Speaker 1: You know what, I really didn't even that third knee operation.
Speaker 1: I'm laying in the bed the day after that operation,
Speaker 1: and I'm doing a live interview in fact, with the
Speaker 1: NBC and it was Bryant Gumbel, and he asked me
Speaker 1: that same question the day after my third knee operation,
Speaker 1: when is it enough? When are you going to give
Speaker 1: it up? And even then I said, I still have
Speaker 1: the passionate desire to come back at least one more time,
Speaker 1: because I wanted to play in the Rose Bowl. I
Speaker 1: hadn't played in. We played in two up to that time,
Speaker 1: and I hadn't played in one, So it really never
Speaker 1: entered my mind that, man, this is crazy, it's my
Speaker 1: third one. Let's find something else to do. I was
Speaker 1: determined to come back and just give it one more shot.
Speaker 1: You succeeded. You came back and played in that Rose Bowl,
Speaker 1: and that was one of the reasons why the Bengals
Speaker 1: were willing to take you with a third pick in
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighty draft. But just to make sure your
Speaker 1: knee was okay, they sent Forrest Greg out to work
Speaker 1: you out. Describe what happened. Well, anybody that followed the NFL,
Speaker 1: especially the Green Bay Packers, knows about Forest Gregg. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was an All Pro guard and tackle Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame offensive tackle. I knew at the time Vince Lombardi's
Speaker 1: last book, he said that Forrest was the finest player
Speaker 1: he ever coached. Now here's a guy coming to work
Speaker 1: me out at Hall of Fame Tackle. He wants to
Speaker 1: see you know where I am physically after that third
Speaker 1: knee operation and playing that game. So I was gonna
Speaker 1: go one hundred percent on everything he asked me to do.
Speaker 1: And it was for about an hour and a half
Speaker 1: and he was putting me through, I mean, a great workout.
Speaker 1: And finally at the end he said, he goes, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make a few moves as a defensive end.
Speaker 1: You just react. So I said, man, you know, I
Speaker 1: gotta watch the fakes. Because he was early forties and
Speaker 1: still capable of moving a little bit. He actually faked
Speaker 1: outside and started and darted inside, and of course I
Speaker 1: took that step out and came back in. And one
Speaker 1: of the things that I did learn at usc cutting
Speaker 1: Edge with Hudson, how we used our hands a lot
Speaker 1: run blocking, pass blocking, So the punch was very instrumental
Speaker 1: in our technique. Didn't have a whole lot of game
Speaker 1: experience with it, but a lot of camp experience. And
Speaker 1: he went inside and I planted both hands, I mean
Speaker 1: just perfectly into his chest and I extended and as
Speaker 1: he went down, my heart just dropped. He literally hit
Speaker 1: the ground and the back of his head kind of
Speaker 1: hit first, and I stood over him and I apologized
Speaker 1: and I extended my hand and he basically looked up
Speaker 1: and he kind of chuckled and said, no problem, that's
Speaker 1: all right, and I said, man, thank you. And you know,
Speaker 1: it was one of those things where I needed to
Speaker 1: show them that I could still, you know, move, and
Speaker 1: then I was coming. I'd come back completely from that
Speaker 1: third knee operation. We're doing fun facts with Anthony. Munio's
Speaker 1: most offensive linemen don't have career stats, but you had
Speaker 1: seven catches with the Bengals, including four for touchdowns. Do
Speaker 1: you remember when the coaches first decided to put in
Speaker 1: a passing play for you? I sure do. In fact,
Speaker 1: we had a rookie head coach and a rookie quarterback,
Speaker 1: and Sam Weiss's first year, we started to put extra
Speaker 1: linemen in and two big linemen at tight end, shortyards,
Speaker 1: goal line, and of course our goal line with the
Speaker 1: big guys. It was called the web formation because we
Speaker 1: be scorned when we get in that formation. And you know,
Speaker 1: I gotta go back a little bit and really give
Speaker 1: the person the credit that deserves the credit for me
Speaker 1: catching those passes. Because on Monday, after our run, our
Speaker 1: left and viewing. The old lineman would stay after and
Speaker 1: we would have our fatman football game and uh, of
Speaker 1: course my quarterback. All the time, it was the old
Speaker 1: guys against the young guys with Max Montoya so and
Speaker 1: we would play right outside of the coaches windows. You know,
Speaker 1: on that it's old spinny field, and you know, Max
Speaker 1: and I would have fun taking those young linemen apart,
Speaker 1: you know, with our you know Montoya Demuno's connection. But
Speaker 1: it was, you know, Sam's rookie year, and he started
Speaker 1: putting in not only putting big guys at the tight end,
Speaker 1: but all of a sudden saying, okay, we're gonna start
Speaker 1: running some pass plays. And that first catch, if I
Speaker 1: remember correctly, I was a primary receiver and we had
Speaker 1: to score to take in an overtime. I'm thinking, this
Speaker 1: is crazy. This guy isn't gonna last long in the
Speaker 1: NFL coaching like that. But you know, Kenny Anderson was hurting.
Speaker 1: We had a you know, big left hand or a
Speaker 1: rookie at quarterback, and I mean I remember it like
Speaker 1: it was yesterday. And in fact, you know, part of
Speaker 1: the play was you know, fake halfback bounds twenty eight
Speaker 1: pass or something like that, where I hit my guy
Speaker 1: and go. And so I mean he made it fun
Speaker 1: because after that, every week we had a play in
Speaker 1: where I was gonna, you know, go out for a pass.
Speaker 1: Not that we ran it every time, but I did
Speaker 1: get a chance to catch four touchdowns. I assume this
Speaker 1: did not happen from catching the football, but you have
Speaker 1: a messed up little finger that points sideways. Did it
Speaker 1: happen in a specific incident or just the wear and
Speaker 1: tear of all those years on the old line. It's
Speaker 1: just over the years, you know it happened, and you just,
Speaker 1: you know, every week you just tape your I take
Speaker 1: my fingers up, and then all of a sudden, I retired,
Speaker 1: and you know, you kind of reassess your hands and
Speaker 1: your fingers and you look and you, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 1: it's not going the way it started out when I
Speaker 1: first got in the NFL. But you know, because everything
Speaker 1: we did was with our hands, and you know, run blocking,
Speaker 1: you're punching, and guys are coming to him pass block
Speaker 1: and you're trying to punch them. So you're hitting face masks,
Speaker 1: you're hitting shoulder pads or hitting hitting just about everything.
Speaker 1: So it happened from the years and years, and I
Speaker 1: know a lot of people ask me, was it one
Speaker 1: specific play, was it one specific game? And with that pink,
Speaker 1: you know it was an accumulation, all right. A couple
Speaker 1: more fun facts with Anthony Munos. If you look at
Speaker 1: the cast of the nineteen eighty three movie The Right
Speaker 1: Stuff about the Mercury seven Astronauts, it includes Scott Glen,
Speaker 1: Ed Harris, Dennis Quaid, and Anthony Munios as Gonzalez. How
Speaker 1: did that happen? That? It was a funny Super Bowl sixteen?
Speaker 1: I had my right after the game. I had my
Speaker 1: elbow cleaned out, my right elbow. I had some bone
Speaker 1: spurs and the doctor that cleaned it out was the
Speaker 1: same doctor who did all three of my knee operations
Speaker 1: in college. He was the orthopedic surgeon for the Raiders.
Speaker 1: Raiders located in Oakland, but his office was in Beverly Hills,
Speaker 1: and he was known as the orthopedic surgeon for the
Speaker 1: movie stars, and we had a blast because I would
Speaker 1: go in on you know, I saw him a lot
Speaker 1: in three years, and you know, I got to listen
Speaker 1: to the Gobor sister on the phone when we're in
Speaker 1: the examining room as he was talking to him, got
Speaker 1: to meet Sylvester Stallone and Bubba Smith. Smith was actually
Speaker 1: in their former you know, NFL football player and my
Speaker 1: final examination with my elbow that year. We used to
Speaker 1: call him crazy Doc because he was a little on
Speaker 1: the edge. He said, Anthony, I might have something for them, Doc,
Speaker 1: what you have? He said, Doc. Rosenfeld said, I got
Speaker 1: two really good friends and they're getting ready to make
Speaker 1: a movie and they might have a part for you.
Speaker 1: And I said, Doc, I've never acted, I mean, you know.
Speaker 1: He says, no, really. He goes and he gave me
Speaker 1: their numbers. And at that time I didn't know who
Speaker 1: or when Winkler and Bob shard Off were, you know.
Speaker 1: So he goes, go here, they want to see you.
Speaker 1: So I go to their office and I'm walking in.
Speaker 1: There's Raging bullposters and Rocky posters and all these big
Speaker 1: time movies. But I walk into the conference room and
Speaker 1: they're sitting there. They each have a script and there's
Speaker 1: an extra script. So I asked me to read a
Speaker 1: couple of lines and I did that and they said
Speaker 1: thank you, and I left. About a month goes by
Speaker 1: and I figured I blew that one. I didn't get
Speaker 1: the part. So it was a Tuesday morning. I get
Speaker 1: a phone call and it's the casting director for the
Speaker 1: movie and they said, can you be in San Francisco
Speaker 1: on Saturday morning? We're starting to film the movie. And
Speaker 1: so I got the part and they said nobody called
Speaker 1: you and I said no. They said you are a
Speaker 1: member of SAG, right, and I said no. They said
Speaker 1: I'll call you right back. So a few minutes later
Speaker 1: do they call back and they said, we need you
Speaker 1: to show up at this, you know, the SAG office
Speaker 1: Thursday morning. Certain time, you pay initiation fee, fill out
Speaker 1: an application you'd be a SAG member. And then he
Speaker 1: says you want the part, and I said, oh, you bet.
Speaker 1: So I went and filled it out. I became a
Speaker 1: SAG member in DD and I and Michael flip to
Speaker 1: San Francisco for a week and it was a blast.
Speaker 1: I tell you what. I didn't realize how big the
Speaker 1: movie was at the time. But I got to interact
Speaker 1: with Ed Harris and Scott Glenn and all the guys,
Speaker 1: you know, going back and forth, and of course got
Speaker 1: to meet a lot of the other actors and actresses
Speaker 1: that would film at the desert for the desert scenes.
Speaker 1: And but if you remember, I did have long hair
Speaker 1: coming to Cincinnati, and that was my second year. I
Speaker 1: didn't completely have it cut down. So I show up
Speaker 1: on the set and they said, well, you got to
Speaker 1: go see you know, the costume and you know, makeup
Speaker 1: and stuff. And I'm thinking, you gotta be kidding. I
Speaker 1: sit down and they draped the big sheet on me,
Speaker 1: and they pull out the clippers and they started up,
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, oh my goodness, this movie took place
Speaker 1: like a long time. I'm a good Man's short and
Speaker 1: she just started going and I'm thinking, oh, well, but
Speaker 1: you know, it was worth it. So I had a
Speaker 1: pretty short haircut in the movie. But it was fun,
Speaker 1: all right, final fun factor, Anthony Munios and I really
Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Ted Williams famously said, when I walked
Speaker 1: down the street, I want people to go, there goes
Speaker 1: the best hitter that ever lived. You are frequently referred
Speaker 1: to as the greatest offensive lineman that's ever played this game.
Speaker 1: When you hear that, how does it make you feel? Well?
Speaker 1: It still makes me pinch myself. It's still very humbling.
Speaker 1: And you know, when I hear that, it's like, man,
Speaker 1: how great is that? I wouldn't mind just being mentioned
Speaker 1: with you know, the forest graves and the art shells
Speaker 1: and the Jim Parkers. But when I hear that, it's
Speaker 1: it's amazing because of what we just talked about in
Speaker 1: my college career and people had said I'd never play
Speaker 1: again after that Rose Bowl. People said that there's no
Speaker 1: way I would last this season, and the fact that
Speaker 1: I played thirteen years and didn't miss a game of
Speaker 1: my eleventh year, and to have people say that, it's humbling,
Speaker 1: but it's I mean, it really goes to show that
Speaker 1: if if you don't listen to the naysayers and you
Speaker 1: still have a passionate design in your heart and you
Speaker 1: just bust your tail, that's good things happen. That's going
Speaker 1: to do it for this episode of the podcast. If
Speaker 1: you haven't done so already, don't forget to subscribe wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, and if you have a minute,
Speaker 1: give it a rating, or share a comment. Five star
Speaker 1: ratings help more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm Dan
Speaker 1: Horde and thank you for listening to the Bengals Booth
Speaker 1: podcast