1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Unger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode one hundred and fifty three. 11 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: We're going to be mostly talking about the new Marie 12 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: condo and Scott's Sun and Shine book, Joy at Work, 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: opening with a little bit about our current lives and routines. 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: That we're recording this a little closer to when we 15 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: normally record. We've decided that getting too far ahead means 16 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:58,639 Speaker 1: we're just sounding irrelevant. So let's how's how's life going? 17 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: Are you guys keeping your same summer routine as you 18 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: did kind of your quarantine school year routine. Yes, we 19 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: are basically keeping the same daily routine going, including some 20 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: school and there actually hasn't been as much pushback about 21 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: that as I perhaps expected. I think just because like 22 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: they sort of don't see any alterative, Like they're stuck here. 23 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: We have a captive audience. So as long as we 24 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: continue to let them enjoy their favorite video game in 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: the afternoon, which is Minecraft, they're fairly happy following whatever 26 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: directives that we put forth in the morning because they 27 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: kind of understand that they have to complete that in 28 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: order to earn their prize time. So it's been a 29 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: very effective carrot and our stick, I guess you could 30 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: call it. We're not doing anything crazy, we're allowing that well, 31 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: we're having them continue on the same computer programs. Basically, 32 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: the school district kept the access open and I believe 33 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: it's going to be open until like the end of 34 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: July for their eye ready and their math and all 35 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: that stuff. So we just kind of devised, actually our 36 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: nanny kind of devised like a schedule like Okay, on Monday, 37 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: you do two of this. On Tuesday, you do this, 38 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: and then we also have him do some reading. Cameron 39 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: in particular really needs to work on reading and writing skills, 40 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 1: having missed out on the second half of his kindergarten 41 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: year live, which I do think was kind of unfortunate. 42 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: So we're having him do like a daily journal entry. 43 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: And actually, I'll say he's making some progress. Like when 44 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: we started the summer, or at least a few weeks ago, 45 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: he would basically throw a tantrum even just at the start, 46 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: And yesterday we had like a fairly peaceful paragraph written 47 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: and I was very proud and happy. So yeah, we're 48 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: just keeping it going. And Genevieve's still napping really well 49 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: in the afternoon. They're all staying up fairly late, like 50 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: nine thirty ish, but that means that they sleep till 51 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: a reasonable time, like seven seven thirty, which is helpful. 52 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: And on a day by day basis, like when I 53 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: don't think too hard, it's actually pretty pleasant. I just 54 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: don't think too hard. That's a good, good idea in general, 55 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, we are not doing any sort of 56 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: school related stuff now that we're done for the year. 57 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: When this is airing, we maybe at the beach. There's 58 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: a lot of virtual camp stuff. We've done some of it, 59 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: not too much because you know, the kids don't like 60 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: zoom that much. But for Jasper's doing a theater camp 61 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: Sam and Ruth did a coating camp that was just 62 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: like two hours a day for a week, and Alex 63 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: was actually able to go to a real in person 64 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: camp with baseball. That we are now moved into what 65 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: our governor calls a green phase, like we're open, so 66 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: that's kind of exciting. We have a few more in 67 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: person camps scheduled for later in the summer. All our 68 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: original ones were canceled, but then some smaller ones have 69 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: been able to regroup and say, well, we'll start virtual 70 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: and then go to in person in July and August, 71 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: and others are sort of just playing it by year. 72 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: There weren't the kind of things that people sign up 73 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: for way ahead of time anyway, so it was able 74 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: to you know, still be there once the new guidance 75 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: came down. So yeah, I mean we'll see, it's not 76 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: quite the original summer we had planned, but it should 77 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: still be okay. Kids playing a lot Pool time, Minecraft time, 78 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: Minecraft's great. Minecraft is pretty good. Yeah, I don't really 79 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: see any problem with them. Mean, there's so much worse 80 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: stuff out there, like exactly like there's a creative element, 81 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: there's an interactive element. Yeah, and also if their current 82 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: real world is not all that exciting. Take another world 83 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: and they can pay with their friends too, right, Yeah, 84 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: you can have a private world where you like invite 85 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: specific friends so that you're not playing with like public, 86 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: but you might have all of your second grade classmates. Yeah. Yeah, 87 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: so it's pretty cool. I think it's not a bad 88 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: I do it all. So here's to Minecraft. This will 89 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: be the summer of Minecraft for everyone. Well, so we're 90 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: going to talk about joy at work. Sarah, Sarah read it. 91 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: I read it. This book was some small chunk of 92 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: it was written by Marie Condo and most of it 93 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: by Scott's on day. Would you give her that? Yeah, 94 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: maybe twenty percent? Said ten percent, but I flipped through. 95 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: I think it's about twenty percent. Okay, but you know 96 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: she's she's a big name, so let's let's put that 97 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: on there. But so she talks a little bit about 98 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: sort of desk tidying, and then Scott talks about probably 99 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: more of the things we'll talk about in this episode 100 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: in terms of clearing your schedule of clutter and making 101 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: better decisions. So clearing decision making clutter and other such 102 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: ways to be more efficient. So that's probably what the 103 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,239 Speaker 1: bulk of the book is about so that the tidying 104 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: part is is kind of an interesting mashup all the 105 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: though I enjoyed I enjoyed reading. So my first thought 106 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: when I picked up the book was, like, what is 107 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: she going to tell me about work? I don't think 108 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: she's ever had a job like this is absolutely silly. 109 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: But it turns out Marie Condo did have a brief 110 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: stint in the corporate world, in the sales world. Yes, 111 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: she quickly moved up the ladder by cleaning everyone's desk 112 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: exactly exactly. She'd come in in the morning and clean 113 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: their desks, then do her sales calls all day, and 114 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: then you know, continue tidying afterwards. It's a you know 115 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: she sometimes you realize, realize people are called to certain 116 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: things things. Yes, and it seemed like she was. I mean, 117 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: her tidying was fairly contagious and she was able to 118 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: at least see. I would love to know, like all 119 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: these people whose lives she tidied up and fixed, Like 120 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: did she circle back a year later? Like were they 121 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: still tidy? Because I I'm not entirely as convinced, because 122 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: I'm not sure she had that long time term relationship. 123 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: It seems like she would go in and fix everything, 124 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: and then the person often felt better. Sometimes they would 125 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: check in with her later. Sometimes the tidying seem to 126 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: lead to like big momentous decisions and it's you know, 127 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: I'm talking about it like it's a little silly, but 128 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: actually to me she comes off as pretty charming. But 129 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: I can also see the overly tweet aspect as well. 130 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: We covered the whole life changing magic of tidying up 131 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: back in episode thirty that we talked about decluttering and 132 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: why it's so appealing in many cases to people in 133 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: our kind of crazy, chaotic modern world, and especially when 134 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: people have lots of moving parts in their lives. Sometimes, 135 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: you know, a desk is something you can control. You 136 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: can't control the world, but you can control your desk 137 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: if you're Stapler's in the right place, So that can 138 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: be exciting. I do think there are some people and 139 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: like this takes me to like Gretchen Rubin's book Outer 140 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: Order in her Calm right, like some people and myself 141 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: I would put in that category, do tend to just 142 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: feel like they like the wheels are greased to work 143 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: better when things are cleared off. But I also feel 144 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: like those books, Marie Conno's book, Congretchen's book. While useful 145 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: to that subset of people, you have to recognize that 146 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: there are many people for which that is just not 147 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: as useful. Yeah, And we were talking about our own desks. 148 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: Should we discussion to talk about the state of our desk? 149 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: And it's funny here because Sarah sent me a picture 150 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: she had tidied up her desk, but she sent me 151 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,559 Speaker 1: the before too, and her before is definitely my after, 152 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: like after I've cleaned my desk. That's about what it 153 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: looks like. Was her before, because there's there's no I 154 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: don't know. I it's not entirely true that I don't 155 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: like clean surfaces. I have kind of drawn a line 156 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: in the sand for our kitchen tape kitchen island. I 157 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: like the kitchen island to have nothing on it except 158 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: a plant in the middle. And that wasn't the case 159 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: for many months here because we had our homeschool binder 160 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: on it and stuff, and that was over at one end, 161 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: so it was okay. I was like, Okay, we'll deal 162 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: with having the homeschool binder here because that's where people 163 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: are going to look. But I definitely try to clear 164 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: everything off of it and encourage others to clear their 165 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: stuff off of it. And I mean, on some level 166 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: it's silly because I just often I move whatever is 167 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: on the island to another part of the kitchen, like 168 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: right under the microwave, like I'm okay with that part 169 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: being more cluttered, and that's where I tell people to 170 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: look for stuff if I moved it off the island. 171 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: But having the island clear just has that nice expanse. 172 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I just like to look at 173 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: the island. I chose that countertop, and I want to 174 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: see it. Darn it. Well, that definitely, I mean, the 175 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: whole small messes leads to larger ones is definitely like 176 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: if you had a few things on that island, it 177 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: would probably end up with forty things on it. Like 178 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: That's whereas if you designate a space and you're just like, no, 179 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: we never let anything accumulate here, it's somehow much easier 180 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: to maintain. And I do think that's why you do 181 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 1: tend to end up with this like big dichotomy. Right 182 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: Like if you go on a Friday afternoon to an office, 183 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: there's not that many offices that look like my before. 184 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: But just like a couple things. They either look like clear, 185 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: like nobody lives there, like they're like beautiful museum, or 186 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: they look like some of my colleagues have a lot 187 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: of extremely productive and are not bothered by it. But 188 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: like you can't even tell what color the desk is, 189 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: like nobody knows because it's covered with things. Yeah, but 190 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: this is the thing I like to say, there's no 191 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: actual you can definitely have a messy desk and be 192 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: a productive person. Now there's there is sometimes that you 193 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: know you have to put your house in order in 194 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: order to focus that. Some people are like that. Others 195 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: it's like you're so focused on what you're doing that 196 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: the details of other things that are sort of irrelevant 197 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: are not as exciting to you. It's like, you know, 198 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: you don't look at your wallpaper. It doesn't matter. It's 199 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: not you're going to send not send an email because 200 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: you don't like the wallpaper. Yeah, so it just it 201 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: seems like a sort of irrelevant thing. And as long 202 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: as you know where is, like, you're not losing it. 203 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if it's in a pile on the 204 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: desk or in a in a drawer. But you know, 205 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: roughly what's in that drawer or as I've talked about, 206 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: I mean my inbox. I don't really delete a lot 207 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: of stuff. I mean I delete trash, but stuff piles up. 208 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: I mean it's yeah, it doesn't bother me that it's there. 209 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: And clearly you are also very productive as is like 210 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 1: like my division chief and her desk is what I 211 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: mentioned and hopefully she doesn't mind. But she's extremely productive 212 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: here like RVUS which is like a measure of how 213 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: many patients you see are like the highest in our group, 214 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: and sots instead of cleaning your desk, I mean exactly so, 215 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: and not even just that, she does tons of things. 216 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: So so yeah, I don't see even I don't think 217 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: there's data to support the I mean, they sort of 218 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: tried to suggest that it that some people, but I agree, 219 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not impressed with that as the rigor 220 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: of that data. But you know, if it makes you 221 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: happy to have a clean desk, then you should know 222 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 1: that about yourself, which it totally makes me happy. And 223 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: then do it. I do wind up, you know, cleaning 224 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: it off sort of every week or two if it 225 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 1: gets too high a pile or if there are piles 226 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: all over my office, or extraneous things have been dropped here. 227 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: I will go return them at some point, you know, 228 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: I'll put it on my list for the weekend, like 229 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: clean off the desk or clean off the office floor, 230 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: and try to get it done. I did declutter some 231 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: of my desk drawers a couple of years ago. I mean, 232 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: I we just took it. I think they just when 233 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: we moved to this house. This desk came from our 234 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: apartment in New York, and I think the movers just 235 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: like put duct tape over the drawers and like moved everything. 236 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: Like I didn't take anything out, so it's you know, 237 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,719 Speaker 1: whatever was in there was in there, and I kind 238 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: of just stayed there. And so I did, maybe two 239 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: years ago, go through everything and created a system for 240 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: what is in each door. And so that's been sort 241 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: of helpful because I always have stamps and envelopes and 242 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: related type things for correspondence in one drawer, and so 243 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: I know where those are and I can go get 244 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: them very easily. It does not organized like they're just 245 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: all in there. This actually makes me think of a 246 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: recent post you wrote, because I was going to say, well, 247 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: sometimes organizing helps you, helps prevent you from having like 248 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: redundancy all over the place, like because if you don't know, 249 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: for example, like where your pens are, you probably have 250 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: like some in like ten different places. But maybe that's 251 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: sometimes a good thing. Like there are certain items you mentioned, 252 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: the plunger, yes, the plunder blog posts where having an 253 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: extra one may not be such a bad post. Well, 254 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: I've been thought about now that the well one of 255 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: the okay, so back up here I wrote a post 256 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: on maybe buy an extra is the idea. If you 257 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: have too much stuff, that's not good. But if you 258 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: don't have enough, that's a problem as well. Like if 259 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: you only have one bottle of sunscreen in your house, 260 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: you're constantly going to be looking for it, like where 261 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: is the sunscreen? Did somebody move the sunscreen? Or oh, 262 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: we're leaving from the back door instead of by the garage, 263 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: so that's like nobody's putting it on because they're trying 264 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: to run out. So better to have extra bottles different places. 265 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: And among the things I mentioned was the plunger because 266 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: we had a period of time where a lot of 267 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 1: toilets were overflowing in our house from excess toilet paper use, 268 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: and we're like, where's the plunger. Where's is it upstairs? 269 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: Is it downstairs? Where do you go? And I realize, okay, 270 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: maybe just get another plunger. But then somebody comment on 271 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: my blog that, like, every bathroom should have one, because 272 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: you would hate to have like a guest you know, 273 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: you have a guest staying in your guest room or 274 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: using one of the powder rooms or something and have 275 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: a situation and they wouldn't have one, like have to 276 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: go find you, and like it's all a little awkward. 277 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: So I was like, oh, I hadn't really thought about that, 278 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: but yeah, maybe it's nice to just put one in 279 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: each bathroom. So now I have new motivation to go 280 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: shopping for such things. No, that totally makes sense, and 281 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: same as like not necessarily keeping all your damps in 282 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: one place or all your staplers in one place, because 283 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: sometimes it may look a little more cluttered, but that 284 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: redundancy helps. I wonder how Marie you would feel about 285 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: the fact that we ended up applying her book to plungers. 286 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: It's is it something that sparks joy? I don't know. 287 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it's pretty necessary. I am, Oh my goodness. 288 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: But so moving to the more calendar aspects because that's 289 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: what the bulk of the book is in fact about 290 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: so and written by Scott's Sun and Shine. They have 291 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: the idea of applying condoism to the calendar. And I 292 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: really like this idea that you one of the issues 293 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: with calend you know, we often are kind of trimming 294 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: around the margins and say like, oh, could I find 295 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: five minutes here and there? Could I, you know, maybe 296 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: make this meeting take twenty minutes instead of thirty And 297 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: that's not nothing like it's exciting, but you may not 298 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: change your life in those ten minutes. Whereas if you 299 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: don't start from the perspective of what should I get 300 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: rid of, but keeping only that which sparks joy on 301 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: your calendar, that's like an entirely different mindset. It's also 302 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: just as with stuff impossible, because there's always going to 303 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: be something like a plunger that you need that doesn't 304 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: spark joy. I mean, you're not going to get out 305 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: of your departmental meeting just because it doesn't spark joy. 306 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: Of course, there's things you can do to make it better, 307 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: but it's just an entirely different mindset and far more 308 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: radical and I think kind of more exciting to think 309 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: in those terms. Well, and she talks about actively like 310 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: placing things that do bring you joy onto your calendar, 311 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: and like she mentions that certain corporate organizations I think 312 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: Google is one of them, Like they have a policy 313 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: where you can basically spend x amount of hours per 314 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: week doing something that brings you joy. All right, this 315 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: is I'm sorry that the Google twenty percent anecdote has 316 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: been used in every business book. So is it not true? 317 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: Just no, it was true? Like then oh I see 318 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: here saying I wonder if it is still true. But 319 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I think I could apply this to my 320 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: own job, even if it's not officially there. But let 321 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: me tell you the whole, like the idea of like 322 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: clearing off the day and putting on only what sparks joy, 323 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: Like when you work for a big organization like that, 324 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: that that I mean, it's not just the departmental meeting. 325 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: It's like fifteen thousand different meetings and aspects of my job. 326 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: And even though I really do love my job as 327 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: a whole, I find it hard to like practically imagine. 328 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: I feel like if I can get to a point where, 329 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: like I don't know, less than thirty percent of my 330 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: day is spent doing things I really don't like that 331 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: I'm winning? Is that bad? And maybe thirty percent sparks 332 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: joy and the other forty percent are just neutral. Yeah, no, 333 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: that would be great. All right, Well let's take a 334 00:17:49,720 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: quick ad break, so we're back talking about Marie Conda 335 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: and Scott Sunenshein's book Joy at Work. The question of 336 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: whether you can keep only that on your calendar, which 337 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: sparks joy. Pretty sure that they have stuff on their 338 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: calendar that doesn't spark joy too, we all do. I mean, 339 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: it's just the nature of life. But it is a 340 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: kind of cool thought, right, like yes, yes, well maybe 341 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: by the time you reach the success level of Marie Kondo, 342 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: you can pare away a lot of the non joy 343 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: sparking stuff. But she admits that, you know, along the 344 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: way to getting there, actually she did do a lot 345 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: of things that were typical her. That's joy sparking, the 346 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: other sort of cool time concept of that. So you 347 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: think of that as like zero based budgeting here, like 348 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: you don't start from chipping away from what you exist, 349 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: start from nothing and go go from there. But also 350 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: another the idea of sunk costs. So she always has, 351 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, talking about clutter that you can just because 352 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: you spend a lot of money on an object doesn't 353 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: mean you have to keep it. Like you can thank 354 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: it for its service to you. And it's very sort 355 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: of Shintoist type thing, but you thank the object it's 356 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: spirits for giving you happiness and then send it on 357 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: its way. And you could sort of do the same 358 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: thing with time, Like people will spend a lot of 359 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: time on a project and say, well, I can't stop now. 360 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: I mean I've devoted ten hours to it. My team 361 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: has devoted six weeks to this project. We can't quit now. 362 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: What you can, you can, like the sunk costs are gone. 363 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: There is nothing you can do to get that time back. 364 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: So any additional hour you put into it is, as 365 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 1: they say, throwing good money after bad. That hour still 366 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: needs to be evaluated in terms of whether that hour 367 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: is worthwhile. And so I like that idea as well, 368 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: that you know you can stop doing things just because 369 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: you've been doing them for a long time, doesn't mean 370 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: that you have to in order to give respect to 371 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: the hours that have already been spent on it. Yes, 372 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: and I think that applies both to project and as 373 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: standing rotational things that seem to you know, you're quarterly 374 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: this or weekly that or monthly that. Like you're right, 375 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: it's so easy to just keep doing that meeting because 376 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: it feels essential because you've done it. But like, really 377 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: every month it should be like questioned, like is this 378 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,439 Speaker 1: necessary now? How about now? Because many times it's not, 379 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: and you find yourself or maybe you experiment with like 380 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: the maximum interval that any gathering needs to take place, like, 381 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: well it's a monthly meeting. Let's see what happens if 382 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: we change it to quarterly. Okay, well that was fine, 383 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: let's change it to yearly. Oh wait, did you need 384 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: to have an agency? Never exactly because you never good 385 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: for you? Yes, yes, you know. One of the parts 386 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: that was from actually Marie Condo is part of the 387 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: book the idea of taking a picture and letting it go. 388 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: So this was more on the clutter idea, if you 389 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: have sentimental clutter, that you can actually take a picture 390 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: of something and then let it go. And there was 391 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: apparently a study of students cleaning out their dorms and 392 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: they tracked what was donated what was not, and if 393 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: they encouraged students to take a picture and then donate 394 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: it the donation piles were actually much bigger then if 395 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: they were not given that instruction, if they were just 396 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,479 Speaker 1: told to clean out and get rid of stuff. And 397 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: I found that was true too. We cleaned out part 398 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: of our closet because for now at least that's where 399 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: Henry's going to be sleeping, as in a crib in 400 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: the master bedroom closet, and so we had to sort 401 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 1: of clear out half of it completely and so get 402 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: rid of a lot of stuff. And so because of that, 403 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: some of the clutter is of course sentimental, some of 404 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: the clothes or oh this was when I wore this 405 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: thing and Michael wore this to whatever. I found that 406 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: if I took a picture of it, then I was 407 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: totally okay putting it in the giveaway pile. Now, of course, 408 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: the giveaway pile is still sitting there because nobody's taking 409 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: donations yet. But eventually it will get out of the way, 410 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: and I think I'll be fine with letting it go. No, 411 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: that's awesome, I can see that. I should see if 412 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: that will work on my husband, who has quite a 413 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: collection of actually much better. When we first were together, 414 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: he had like bookcases, bookcases filled with like college finders, 415 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: and papers and stuff, and those are long gone, so 416 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: he's come a very long way actually recently, like I 417 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: noticed that our sort of memorabilia type of stuff was 418 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: getting smaller, but it was still like annoying me. It 419 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't annoy you, I'm sure, But then I recognize that, 420 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: you know what, if we got like some dedicated boxes 421 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: and just put it in that somehow, I could like 422 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: move on. I think a step beyond that would be 423 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: taking pictures of it. And I don't know if we're 424 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: going to get there, but well, sorry, that was a digressions. 425 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: And then my favorite Marie and Scott time tip is 426 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: they say, let me think about that and get back 427 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: to you. So how do we keep schedule clutter from 428 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: invading our calendars in the future. Well, you know, it's 429 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: very easy to say yes to some that's something that's 430 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: far in the future, because I mean, a you feel 431 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: like you're assigning it to a different person. Like people 432 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 1: have very difficult time envisioning themselves in the future. They 433 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: also look at their calendar for say December, and it 434 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: looks pretty free, like there's there's nothing on there for December. 435 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: So if you ask them to do something in December, 436 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, yeah, I'm free on December tenth at 437 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: ten o'clock. Sure, I'll do that. Of course, eventually it 438 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: will be December tenth, and you will probably have other 439 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: things going on, and you may or may not wish 440 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: to do this thing that you agreed to back in June. 441 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: So they say, you know, if you have trouble saying 442 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: no in the moment, or you're even just not sure 443 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: by yourself time, say let me think about that and 444 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: get back to you, or let me check my schedule 445 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: and get back to you, and then you can take 446 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: a more rational view of what is on your plate 447 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: figure out if this thing you are being asked to 448 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: do sparks joy and if not, then you can follow 449 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: up later and say no, I will not be able 450 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: to do that by yourself time, So you don't say 451 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: yes out of the sort of social awkwardness of the situation. 452 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: As long. I love that tip, as long as nobody 453 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: that I'm asking to do, nobody else should listen to this. Yeah, 454 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: because I totally take advantage of that, and I purposely 455 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: make sure I because a lot of my job has 456 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: to do with making sure that various teaching things are 457 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: arranged and I think that most physicians actually do like teaching, 458 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: but they're also extremely busy. So on any given day, 459 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: if I were to like throw a resident at them, 460 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: they would be like, I don't have time for that, 461 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: but somehow like their ideal stuff. They're happy to work 462 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: in that teaching session or that rotation. So yes, so 463 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: you can take advantage of yes, exactly both sides of 464 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 1: that one. Yes exactly. So yes, ask people in for 465 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: stuff far in the future if you want them to 466 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: do it for you. All right, Sarah, your notes, Well, 467 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: we've covered a lot of them. I guess I did 468 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: kind of like the mention and this was a proportion 469 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: that was done by Marie Condo about clean up of 470 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,719 Speaker 1: your digital spaces. Of course I liked it because I'm 471 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: an inbox zero devotee, but sometimes I have a lot 472 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: of like folders and junk on my work computer, and 473 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe it doesn't matter, but as I 474 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: read it, it seemed like she had a good case 475 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: for getting rid of a lot of them, just because 476 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: when you are trying to find a document and there's 477 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: a million cluttered things to sift through, it can be frustrating, 478 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: and then that can actually be kind of friction that 479 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: messes with your productivity because if you can't find what 480 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: you need, then you're more likely to just give up 481 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: and like go do something easier. So I do kind 482 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: of think there is probably a happy medium, like I'm 483 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: not going to open every single document and file it, 484 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: but I could probably just get rid of a lot 485 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: of old stuff and just throw it all into one 486 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: archive folder and like, I don't know, just get it 487 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: out of the way to make things easier to find. 488 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: So I was motivated by that. What do you think 489 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: I'd be forced to clean out my digital space because 490 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: my computer is running out of hard drive space. So 491 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: I've realized I had stuff on there that I didn't need. 492 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: I you know, never went through anything, but I need 493 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: a new computer fairly soon. I was going to say, 494 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: actually you could or you could just get like a 495 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, like a portable hard drive, dump everything on there, 496 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: and then like yes or fresh exactly urgency. There was 497 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: a section. I mean, again, this is like not new 498 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: business advice, but it's still worth thinking about because you know, 499 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: there was one section that I that I did, like 500 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: they wrote research finds that half at executives' activities last 501 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: less than nine minutes, leaving them without much time for 502 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: deep thought. Factory foreman average five hundred and eighty three 503 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: discrete activities for an eight hour shift. Mid level employees 504 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: averaged only one thirty minute or greater uninterrupted time block 505 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: about once every other day. When I read that, I 506 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: was like, yes, you felt mean I felt seen. And 507 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: then I paid more attention the next day about the 508 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: number of times I was interrupted. And this was working 509 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: at work, not at home. I mean it was like 510 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: every time I was trying to do something fairly deep, 511 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: either somebody knocked on my door, somebody texted me, someone 512 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: tiger texted me, which is like another texting thing we have. 513 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: I was stupid enough to have I outlook open, so 514 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: that was interrupting. I mean that's my own fault, but 515 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: like a lot of those texts, like I guess it's 516 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: a culture thing, like, but it's also on me, right, 517 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: Like I could have turned on do not disturb. I 518 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: don't have to respond to people instantly because if they're 519 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: not texting about urgent things. But at the same time, 520 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: when you get a text and it's from kind of 521 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: a colleague that's either right under you or like parallel 522 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: to you, like you feel compelled to reply, So I 523 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: just I don't have an answer. I find this very challenging, 524 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: and I feel like, well, I guess the one answer 525 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: is like, when you are focusing on a project, just 526 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: put your phone on do not disturb, and like maybe 527 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 1: even put a sign outside your door that's like, I 528 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: need sixty minutes unless there's an emergency, leave me alone. 529 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: If there is, call me. Because the default is that 530 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: we're interrupted constantly. And I'm not a factory worker, but 531 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: still I'm interrupted constantly. Yeah, so yeah, But I mean, 532 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: the one upside of that statistic, and I totally believe 533 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: that that people only like have one thirty or an 534 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: uninterrupted session like every other day, is that if you 535 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: are working at home over the past few months and 536 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: you haven't been before, and you have your kids home, 537 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: as many people do, and you're getting interrupted a lot, 538 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: the good thing to recognize is that your office wasn't 539 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: paradise like the comparison. You may feel like you're very 540 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: fragmented now, but you were probably fragmented then too, and 541 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: it may be in a different way. But let's not 542 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: pretend that it was this oasis of hours of productivity 543 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: where no one ever interrupted you. No one ever came 544 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: by to be like, yeah, did you see John's shirt? 545 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: Like you know, it's just there's all kinds of stupid 546 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: stuff that interrupts people in offices and stuff that seems 547 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: productive that people get interrupted in offices for too, So 548 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: it will all be okay. But that said, if you 549 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: do have the ability to focus for a bit, don't 550 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: hurt your own productivity, Like, don't, don't don't create an 551 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: own goal situation here, just as Sarah was saying, put 552 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: your phone and do not disturb. Don't stop in the 553 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: middle to go check if the meat made it out 554 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: of the freezer, Like, just keep working and try. If 555 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: you get past thirty minutes, that is awesome. Celebrate that 556 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: fact because you can do a lot in uninterrupted time. 557 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: You can do a lot in uninterrupted thirty minutes. It's 558 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: actually true. But yeah, when I read that section, I 559 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: was like, oh my god. And I do think it's 560 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: a problem that the more open offices there are, and 561 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: the more kind of like now culture and texting types 562 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: of apps that we're using at work, But the worst 563 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: it's getting. Honestly, I don't think well, I don't know. 564 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: I wasn't in the workforce like this twenty years ago, 565 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: but I doubt it was as bad. I just don't 566 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: think people's phones were ringing the way. Yeah I did 567 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: a little. The phones is different, but yeah, yeah, we 568 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: interrupt ourselves more, I think too, because we have the 569 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: ability to You can look at your you can be 570 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: in your you know, turn off outlook in your computer, 571 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: and then pick up your phone and like look on it, 572 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: so it just doesn't get to you one way or 573 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: the other. Cool anything else from the book you wanted 574 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: to know? Those were my highlights. I will say I 575 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: enjoyed reading it. It made me like a little more 576 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:16,959 Speaker 1: if you just sort of need to pick me up 577 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: to get you a little more excited about work or 578 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: making your work life better. I think there are enjoyable 579 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: pieces to the book, and it's written in kind of 580 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: that positive Maricondo tone that again some people may find 581 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: overly tweet or just a little silly, but I enjoy it, 582 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: so I urge you to check it out. All right, 583 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: So here's our listener question for the week. It came 584 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: from Instagram, which you guys can find us Best of 585 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: Both Worlds podcasts over at Instagram, and it says I 586 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: listened to a recent podcast episode and wanted to hear 587 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: about how you get up so early. This is clearly 588 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: aimed at Sarah. It's getting to bed that is a 589 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: huge struggle for me, as there is often a lot 590 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: to do, and recently my kids have had trouble getting 591 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: to sleep. What advice do you have? I think up 592 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: early to get work done would be so beneficial for me. So, Sarah, 593 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: how do you get to bed on time? Yeah? I 594 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: don't know. So the problem with this is like the 595 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: way to get up early is to go to bed 596 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: fairly early, and it sounds like this person is struggling 597 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: with that. So I don't know that I'm going to 598 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: have a magic bullet. I do think maybe like a 599 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: gradual Well, two things, if you force yourself to get 600 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: up early a couple of days, you may be tired 601 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: enough that you would do fall asleep earlier. So that's 602 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: one way to kind of shift you. You kind of 603 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: have to accept the idea that you can't have long 604 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: kid free mornings and evenings. You kind of have to 605 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: pick one because they're not going to sleep anymore. So 606 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: like in my case, I've kind of engineered it so 607 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: I have longer kid free mornings than evenings, and we 608 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: get around that and still have like some time for 609 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: my husband and I to talk to each other by 610 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: like allowing them to watch some movies at night, so 611 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: then we get to actually talk. But you can't have books, 612 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: So I think you need to analyze kind of which 613 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: works better for you. And I don't know if you're 614 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: you know, a caffeine user, but I do feel like 615 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: one of the best ways to dive into going to 616 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: bed earlier is to to force yourself to get up 617 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: early for a few days. But I'm also a natural 618 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: morning person, so that it's hard for me. I don't 619 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: know if that would extrapolate to someone who just naturally 620 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: is driven to stay up late. That's never been me. 621 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: So maybe in your case, the answer isn't that. I mean, 622 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: maybe maybe you need to embrace your evenings. I don't know, 623 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: what do you think. I think she's right that getting 624 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: up early to work is probably the way to go. 625 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: I mean, there are very few true night owls. There 626 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: are some as like ten percent of the population, but 627 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the people who say I'm not a 628 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: morning person, it's more that they're tired in the morning, 629 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: and that's because they're going to bed later. And that's 630 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: because the evening is when you have that quiet, kid 631 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: free time, like you've done your chores, you're you know, 632 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: now you have this like me time and people want 633 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: to enjoy it, and so it feels like, well, going 634 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: to bed early means I'm cutting that off, Like I 635 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: don't want to do that. So yes, as you said, 636 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: you cannot have both kid free evening time and kid 637 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,479 Speaker 1: free morning time. And if you want to use it 638 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: to work, then you're going to have to recognize that 639 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: you're probably going to have less leisure time. So that's 640 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: a trade off and you have to decide if that 641 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: is worth it to you, and it may not be, 642 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: Like if you don't actually like your job that much, 643 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: for instance, like that seems like a bad trade off, 644 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: Like why would you give up your exciting, wonderful me 645 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: time at night just to get up early to do work? 646 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: Right like that, that's probably not a trade off that's 647 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: going to make you happy long term, and so you 648 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: won't do it, is basically how that's going to play out. Now. 649 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: If it is that you're really excited, you have the 650 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: stuff that you really want to get to and it's 651 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: not happened because you know, you don't have quiet time 652 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: during the day anymore, well, then you might be more motivated. 653 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: And so if you kind of say, okay, I'm going 654 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: to be in bed, you know, thirty minutes after my 655 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: kids go to bed, that can be you know, sort 656 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: of wind yourself down, and that could give you a 657 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: little bit of time to do that. You know, and 658 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: it's hard, but if that is actually a priority to 659 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: you to get up early to work, then it's it 660 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: could be you know, you'll probably get in the habit 661 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: of doing it. Yes, all right, so we move on 662 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: to our love of the week. Yes, let's let's do 663 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: our love of the week. Okay, I can go first. Sorry, 664 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: I you know, with a lot of attention on anti 665 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: racism right now and kind of the I don't know, 666 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: the giant movement for everybody to diversify their feeds and 667 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: listening and such, I've definitely joined. And one podcast that 668 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: I have found really kind of just fun to listen 669 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: to and interesting is Code Switch. I already knew the host, 670 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: Gene Dunby, well he's one of the co hosts him 671 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,720 Speaker 1: and Sharene Miraji, but I knew him from pop culture 672 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: Happy Hours so it was like a friendly voice that 673 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: I already kind of knew. But they just talk about 674 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: all kinds of issues. He's black, and she I think 675 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,439 Speaker 1: is either I don't want to get her heritage wrong. 676 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: I think she maybe mixed race or maybe Hispanic and black. 677 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: But they just have these great conversations about like like 678 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: they were talking about like why why now, like you know, 679 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: why why has everything changed? Or why is this the 680 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: year for so much change? Or they talked about like 681 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: why has their podcast become so interesting to everyone now 682 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: when it wasn't before. But they have a nice conversational 683 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: style and they're both highly intelligent and fun to listen to. 684 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: So code switch on NPR. Switch All right, sounds sounds good? Yeah, God, 685 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: I'm still loving my Libby app. I'm not going to 686 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: say this every every week, am I going to tell you? 687 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: But I've been on a Tony Morrison reading kick of 688 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: late you know, which probably people have gotten assigned a 689 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: book of hers in high school, college, whatever. But it's 690 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: kind of fun to reread a sign books as adult 691 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: because you're coming to it from a different Like I 692 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: don't have to write a term paper on this, like 693 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: comparing you know, the symbolism of chapter two with like 694 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: some other random thing. So I recently finished reading Jazz, 695 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: which you know is one of her shorter books, sort 696 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: of more accessible. If anyone's looking for a place to start, 697 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: I would I would recommend that. And what's about? What's that? 698 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,959 Speaker 1: What's it about? Like? Is it about jazz? It's about 699 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,879 Speaker 1: well no, but it's about nineteen twenties Harlem. And sort 700 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: of the way it's written is in terms of she's 701 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: very lyrical and it moves around to different characters. It's 702 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: like you already know the plot in the first paragraph, 703 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: but then like a jazz theme, it comes from different angles. 704 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: It comes in this sort of the tone of the language, 705 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 1: it gets at this rhythm of jazz. So it's it's 706 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: a very cool meta aspect to the books. So I 707 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: would I would write come in that people are looking 708 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: for something to read. And you know, if you if 709 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 1: you read the Bluest Eye or Beloved, those are the 710 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: ones that are often assigned in class, try checking this 711 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: on out. It's a really sort of more I think 712 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: accessible one that you're not writing a term paper on. 713 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: That's a good summer read, good summer. Yes, all right, 714 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: Well this has been best of both worlds. We have 715 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: been talking about joy at work, Marie Condo, Scott Son, 716 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 1: and Tine. We will be back next week with more 717 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 1: on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. 718 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 719 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can 720 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has 721 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: been the best of Both Worlds podcasts. Please join us 722 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.