WEBVTT - Jaws 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:04.560 On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:07.960 in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:13.080 or do they have individualism? The patriarchy Zephim Beast start 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.960 changing with the Bechdel Cast. 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:22.400 Auga Alert, Alert, We're going on tour. 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.840 We're going on tour, and I know what you're all thinking. 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.160 What are you going to the same four cities again? 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.720 Normally the answer be yes. This time no, we are 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:38.240 for the first time touring in the Midwest. You heard, 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:43.240 we responded nine years later, we are touring the Midwest. 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:45.760 We are very, very excited, and so we wanted to 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:47.519 let you know as soon as possible so you can 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:51.559 grab your tickets. It's our end of summer tour. Caitlin, 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:52.880 where are we going? 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.760 I will tell you. We're kicking off the tour in 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:04.560 Indianapolis on August thirtieth. That is a Saturday matinee show 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.600 with Let's Fest. So check out our show for sure, 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.160 and check out other programming at the festival. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:14.399 I've got a solo show that night. You should come. 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:16.760 You should definitely come to that to come to both 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:22.120 of them. So, yeah, that's Indianapolis August thirtieth, then the 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:26.280 following night, on August thirty first, we will be in Chicago, 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:30.240 so come on out to that show. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.160 We'll be at the Den Theater that night. It's a beautiful, 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.160 beautiful theater. We're very, very excited, and tickets particularly we'll 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.600 be going quick there, so if you're in Chicago, get 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:41.319 your tickets now. 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.440 Indeed, a few days later we'll be over in Wisconsin. 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:48.760 That's right, We're coming to Madison on September fourth. We 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.640 will be at the Burr Oak and then finally we 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:58.680 will be in Minneapolis on September seventh at Dudley Riggs Theater. 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.440 It will be a thrilling week in the Midwest. We 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:06.640 are very excited to come and see you. Come hang. 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:11.760 As always, we do like audience involvement stuff. We do 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:15.639 meet and greets after we sell exclusive merch it's a blast, 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.359 so come be weird and parasocial with us. We will 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:22.160 be announcing movie pics a little bit closer to the shows, 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.040 but we can promise you're gonna have an amazing time. 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.880 Bechdel Cash shows are rowdy and weird and a lot 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.600 of people have met their significant others there, so are 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:31.720 we promising love. 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:37.320 Yes, significant others, friends or just fuck buddies. Yeah, just 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:40.000 go in and find someone to fuck if you want. 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.040 They're just if you're a horny, well no, actually, if 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:46.880 you're a horney, figure it out. But you can come 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:48.959 to the show. You're wal, you can see people welcome. 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.520 Don't be weird about it. Just don't be weird about it, 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:52.240 honor system. 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.760 Yes indeed. Yeah, and the tickets for all of these 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.800 shows can be found on our link tree link tree 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.919 slash bechdel Ca, So grab them while you still can. 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:06.600 We're expecting these shows to sell out, so don't wait. 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:11.680 As as mister Andrews says to Rose at the after 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:15.840 the Titanic has hit the iceberg, don't wait. Get your 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.800 tickets now and we will see you there. Should I 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:23.200 be invoking Titanic a national tragedy? 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:25.680 I think that it's you. 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.200 You crested thee hundred year roll. It's fine, thank you 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.200 so much. In any case, grab your tickets. We're so 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.000 excited to come see you. 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:40.040 See you there and now done done Fuck America by 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.960 byecast Jamie. 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:47.200 We're gonna need a bigger pod podcast. 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:49.480 I mean, look, we've been trying. 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:53.480 Yeah, tell your friends not for lack of. 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.120 Effort that we don't have a bigger podcast. Tell your friends, 0:03:56.360 --> 0:04:00.640 Tell your friends. We didn't pivot the video. I guess, hey, 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.880 I mean, yeah, look, we're we've got we've got a 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:09.520 we've got a quin style podcast. So true, chugging along, 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:15.280 full of trauma, old fashioned, no video doomed. Who could say, 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:17.080 let's hope not, Let's hope not. 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:20.240 What if at the end of this episode we get die? 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.480 Honestly, it would be a blessing. It would be a 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:28.200 blassing bringing on. Hi everyone, Welcome to the Jaws episode 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.200 of the Vachdel Cast. My name's Jamie Loftus. 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.400 My name is Caitlin Droonte. This is our show where 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.719 we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.520 Bechdel test. Simply as a jumping off point. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.760 Is Jaws of what pronounces Jaws use? 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:49.440 Well, the characters refer to Jaws as he him. 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.200 Yeah, but like, I mean, I guess that they are 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.200 shark experts, so I'm assuming they know that, But it 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.320 just feels like it's a given, like. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:58.840 They don't question it at all, Like before they. 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:02.320 Could possibly know they you're using him. I just needed, 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.520 like definitely not to be like obsessed with the like 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:07.680 gender of the shark. It just felt like the he 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:10.960 him was a was a foregone conclusion, versus. 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.040 Like, I mean this is true. I think they just 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:17.120 see a forebiding aggressive thing and they're like, well, that 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:20.760 must be a male shark. I mean, animals don't have gender. 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:24.880 Gender is a very human construct, so right, but it 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.359 very well could have been a female shark. 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:31.640 Well, because Spielberg later on, I mean famously the dinosaurs 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:33.520 in Jurassic. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:37.320 Parks, so you know, all female growth growth exactly over 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:43.040 time anyway, So yes, we use the Bechdel test as 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.360 a jumping off point. That, of course, is a media 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.760 metric created by our very best friend in the whole 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:54.279 wide world, Alison Bechdel, first appearing in her comic Dikes 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.920 to Watch Out For in nineteen eighty five. Often called 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:59.560 the Bechdel Wallace Test, there are many versions of it. 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:04.760 The one that we use requires this, do two characters 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.320 of a marginalized gender have names? And do they speak 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:12.279 to each other about something other than a man? And also, 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:16.880 we like it when it's narratively impactful dialogue and not 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:19.320 just throw away nonsense. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:23.640 We like it. We love it. Yes, and today we 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:29.159 are taking that interactional feminist frame and applying it to 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:33.599 one Jaws nineteen seventy five, directed by Steven Spielberg, which 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.840 feels especially worthy of mention this year because it's celebrating 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:43.000 its fiftieth anniversary. Yeah. I was really hoping to watch 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.599 the new documentary about Jaws, but it unfortunately does not 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:50.440 come out until after this episode airs tragically rude. But 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:55.280 there is plenty, plenty, plenty to be said about the 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.160 movie Jaws. There's been a lot of inks billed, and 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:01.479 here is a little bit more MP three about it. 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:06.200 Indeed, here's our contribution to that. Jamie, what's your relationship 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:07.400 with the movie Jaws? 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:12.840 I was a late bloomer to Jaws. I didn't grow 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.520 up with Jaws, even though I grew up, like you know, 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:20.560 I grew up in Massachusetts, where Jaws famously takes place. Yea, 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:23.400 my mom not when I was growing up, but my 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.640 mom when I was in high school and my parents 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:31.920 got the Vorst. She moved to a community not unlike 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.560 the community in Jaws. A community. She lives in Marshville, Massachusetts, 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:42.640 which is a community that has a wide class gap. 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:45.320 There's the rich folks in the hills and kind of 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.480 the more working class, middle class folks in the city below. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.000 It is a town that very much relies on and 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:57.320 has a very complicated relationship with the tourist economy. And 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.400 so while there's a lot of cartoonish elements of Jaws, 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:05.480 I actually did feel somewhat at home when I finally 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:07.040 saw it. I didn't see it until a couple of 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:09.920 years ago. It was re released in Imax, I want 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:11.880 to say, three years ago, and that was my first 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:15.240 time seeing it, and I have watched it every summer since. 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:19.320 So I think this was my fourth viewing of Jaws. 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:22.680 And I mean, it's a classic for a reason. Baby. 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.920 Is it copaganda? Yes, but but it's is it a 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:32.559 movie ever? Like kind of it is? It's like it is. 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.440 It's really nice seeing like a movie that, like I 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.120 wasn't avoiding it, I just like never saw it, and 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.080 then when you finally see it, you're like, oh, it's 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.160 it's as good as everybody says. It's an incredible movie. 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:43.880 It's so good. 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.880 It's so good, and much of the lore behind it 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.000 is really fascinating because it's got that like this movie 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.400 shouldn't have worked and then it did, which is always 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:58.120 a fun thing, and it's yeah, Spielberg's like first theatrical 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.600 release because he made that TV movie that was unlike 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.800 Jaws if Jaws was a truck. Yeah, so that was 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:06.720 this little warm up. He's like, okay, Jo, well what 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.120 if Jaws was a fish and what if the truck 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.040 was a shark? Yeah, but if the truck was a shark? 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:12.959 And he slaid that and he was like twenty eight, 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:18.640 which is upsetting but also incredible, and I, yeah, this movie. Look, 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.200 could we make a better movie than this? 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:22.480 Me? No? 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:26.439 I like, no, we couldn't. And there's many movies we've 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.679 covered in the show that we could make up definitely, 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.080 but this is this is one of the greatest movies 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:35.800 probably ever, one of like what a what like invented 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.880 the blockbuster essentially. I didn't even ever think hard about 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.319 the term blockbuster, but then you're like, you think about it. 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:43.800 People lined up around. 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.880 The block, Oh and they and they busted. 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.560 They busted while they were waiting. And if the movie 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:54.120 is so good, everyone busted and it came. That's why 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:58.320 you wait around the block and then you bust when 0:09:58.360 --> 0:09:58.720 you get in. 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.960 Yeah, it's like edge you're waiting you're waiting, you're waiting. 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:06.760 And you get so scared you come and yeah, this 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:11.000 would be rocks. It fucking rocks, Roles and rules. It 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.640 still feels very timely no matter when you see it. 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:21.199 I love this movie. I particularly love the Robert Show performance. 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:22.520 I think it's my favorite. 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:25.640 Had no idea who was British. 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.079 Oh oh by. And also I didn't know that he 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:34.720 was a Pulitzer Prize finalist author like he was. Oh yeah. 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.680 He was also a very successful writer, and I think 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.559 was you know, many such cases. He was always a 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:43.800 bit pissed that he was more famous as an actor 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.599 than as a writer, but he was a very I 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.240 wouldn't say he was an underrated writer. He was rated. 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:51.400 He almost won a Pulitzer. 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:52.079 Wow. 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:56.480 Anyways, I think that his performance as quint is like 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:01.840 one of my favorite performances ev which is the coldest 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:06.480 take humanly possible. And I don't like Richard Drivis famously. 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:10.000 I think he's annoying, and it's really it's horrible when 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.559 someone's a horrible person, but it's interesting when someone's a 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:14.880 horrible person, and it just validates the fact that you 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.440 never enjoyed watching them perform and That's how I feel 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:22.160 about Richard Drives. He sucks and I don't like watching him. 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.160 And it used to just be like, am I being 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:26.600 a bitch, And then I found out he was a 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.280 horrible person. So now I'm like, well, I can freely 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:31.880 air I don't like Richard Drivis. I think he's obnoxious. 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.720 Yeah, he didn't know until you sent me that link. 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.040 But he's a piece of shit. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.400 It's Jaws related too. The reason that like, I mean, 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.559 he's he's been. He's been a piece of shit quietly 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.280 for years. But his most recent outing of being a 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.800 piece of shit was he had like an outburst against 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:57.640 essentially any diversity or DEI in film at a Jaws 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:02.320 screening in Massachusetts several years ago. Go and because Massachusetts 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:07.160 is the greatest, he was booed in the theater and 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.520 it made the news rounds. But I mean, it's, you know, 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.640 an old white man, old white manning But it just 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.440 was like, I would not recommend watching the clip. It's 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:23.840 rather disgusting. And he's possibly a Republican, we just don't know, 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.720 but we know that he it's it's one of the 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:31.079 more comprehensive, hateful speeches I've ever heard yeah. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.840 He was disparaging of women of the meet too, and. 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.160 It was literally like, if you are not a cis 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.320 white man, I don't respect you. 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:43.880 Make him vomit as he says. 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.720 Yes, he says yeah, so early in the show to 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.600 get into that. But and I you know, not that 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.240 I'm like, and I'm sure Robert Shaw was a woke king, 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:54.840 like who fucking knows. 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.720 He did identify as a socialist, so maybe he did more. 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:03.400 So I mean, look, yeah, not necessary. I mean to 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.880 hang out at a DSA meeting long enough. Anyways, this 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:11.080 movie's amazing, Yes, and I really really like it. I 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:12.719 think if I saw it when I was younger, it 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.760 would be in like some of my all time movies. 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.160 But I'm a pretty recent convert. What about yourself? 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:22.800 Honestly kind of the same. There's an alternate timeline version 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.640 of me, or like a multiverse Caitlyn out there somewhere 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.760 in the world who has seen this movie a hundred times, 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.640 who can quote it? Yeah, who started watching it when 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.560 I was like eight years old. But that just isn't 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.079 the version of me who's speaking right now. That's okay, 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.800 thank you so much. I saw this only once in 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.760 my like it was either when I was a teenager, 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.720 like in high school, or it was during the kind 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.840 of great Caitlyn movie binge of two thousand and five 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.720 somewhere around then. But I watched it that one time, 0:13:55.480 --> 0:14:00.400 and I didn't see it again until last summer at 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.920 a screening at the Vista in LA and I was like, 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.440 holy shit, why was I sleeping on this movie this 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.840 whole time? This is incredible? What am I doing? And 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.319 now I'm gonna work it into my regular rotation because 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:18.079 it is so good. It's such a great movie. 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:19.400 It's a movie. 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:21.400 It's a movie that feels like a movie. We come 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:23.480 to this place for magic and for Jaws. 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.920 Literally that I do feel this is so core, but 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.560 like it's a movie that feels like a movie. When 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.280 people are talking about movies, they're basically talking about Jaws 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:34.680 pretty much. Yeah, it's got something for everyone. 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:35.880 It really does. 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.880 Whether you're a child or traumatized from what you did 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:43.480 in World War two, this movie's got something for everybody. 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:48.240 Indeed, let's take a quick break and we will come 0:14:48.280 --> 0:15:03.280 back to do the recap and we're back. Yeah, Okay, 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:05.760 here's what happens in Jaws. 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:11.680 We open on just saying exactly. 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.600 We open on some young people having a campfire on 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.400 the beach. A man and a woman run off to 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:22.160 go skinny dipping. The man is too drunk and he 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:26.440 kind of like passes out in the sand, but the woman, Chrissy, 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.120 goes into the water, and we've. 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:33.040 Got that creature from the Black Ligan shot throughout. 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:38.760 In something that's underwater, grabs her and starts thrashing her around, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:46.200 and eventually she's pulled underwater, never to be seen alive again. 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:51.720 The casting for this is so seventies sexism, but it's 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:56.640 interesting this character is called Chrissy. Yes, So the casting 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.360 call for this basically said, okay, are you hot, willing 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.520 to get naked, and very physically strong so that we 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:07.640 can yank you underwater. And the actor who played her 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.400 was all of those things. She had done like some 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:15.120 pinup modeling I think, and was a I believe, like 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.720 a semi professional slimmer like she had. 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.640 A lot of and a stunt performer, like a professional 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:21.760 stunt worker. 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:28.160 Some of our most underappreciated actors. But she in what 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.960 I believe. I watched the Jaws documentary that was filmed 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.360 for the fortieth anniversary, so about ten years old. 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.040 Now I also watched that one. 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.720 Yes, yeah, that's when I sent to you and her 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:44.440 she was basically waterboarded yeah during the shot, but she 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:46.480 was like, but we didn't call it that back then. 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.080 You were like okay, but just like I don't know, 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.480 very like casting eat, it'sunded, Like Steven Spielberg was the 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:54.840 only person that was like, is she appropriate for the role, 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:56.880 And all the other men in the room were like, 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:02.440 humana huamanahamana. So you know that's and because it's like 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:06.120 the seventies and everyone's our parents age or earlier, they're 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.240 like ha ha ha, And it was so funny and 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.119 we just have to be like, well, if you say so, 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.040 I don't have to agree. It sounds like they've waterboarded 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.400 you anyways. Yeah, rip Chrissy, m hmm. 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.640 Then we cut to Martin Brody played by Roy Scheider, 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:29.360 the chief of Police of Amity Island, very Martha's Vineyard vibes, 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.320 and that is famously also where they shot the movie. 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:38.600 A cab does include Brody, yes, but I do love him. 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:43.280 He's hard. It's hard, he I mean, but that's why 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:48.600 coppaganda exists, because guys like Brody don't actually exast I 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:50.480 know anyways, do love him. 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.960 So we meet Brody and his wife Ellen played by 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:55.919 Lorraine Gary. 0:17:56.080 --> 0:18:00.080 Love her too. What a fun Steven Spielberg is so 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.760 like early Spielberg. I feel like it is full of 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:07.120 mom characters like this who just like I mean, it's 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:09.520 not similar to the mom and et in that she 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:11.879 is a much bigger character in that story. She's a 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:16.320 single mother, but just that, like the women in his 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.760 like seventies and eighties movies in like rather formulaic movies 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.960 still like have a personality at very least, which so 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.760 few characters in like genre movies do. It's very like 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.280 I am your wife. Here is French fries I mad 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:37.320 or like however, wives are nagging, right, But she is humorless. 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.200 She's fun. She is like we live on the beach. 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:45.040 She's like not a great parents. 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.760 I don't think anyone in the seventies were, because the 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:51.199 way that parents just let their kids run around loose 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:53.520 all willy nilly. 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.679 It definitely was like, yeah, parent of the time. But 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.280 also it's just wild how well aware she has that 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.560 there's a shark nearby and she's like, there are my kids. Oh, 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.840 you don't like that? They're in the water, like, well, 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.320 I'm gonna have a drink, and you're like, all right, 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:10.920 let's go. I love her. 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.560 Yeah, she's fun, and so she and Brody have two 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:20.200 sons together and are recent transplants from New York City. 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.399 Then Brody gets a call about a missing girl, the 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:28.760 one from the night before, and he discovers her body 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.960 on the beach, or what's left of her, because she's 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:38.560 been badly mangled and it's presumed to be a shark attack. 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.400 So he wants to close the beach until further notice. 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:48.640 But Mayor Vaughn played by Murray Hamilton and his minions 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:52.840 go to Brody and say, oh, you can't close the beach. 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.919 This is a summer beach town and we need the 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.400 money that tourism brings in. We don't have sharks. That 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:01.760 woman died in a boding accident. 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:05.760 Probably, I think there's I've read about. I didn't really 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.919 know before prepping for this episode that Jaws was a book. 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.000 I did not read it, but I did look up 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.439 and like watch the video and read a few articles 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:18.920 about what the changes that are made in the book. 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:23.119 And one of the things that like, I'm not upset 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:25.560 at the way Spielberg did it, but I would be curious, 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:27.280 like what it would be like if I guess I 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:32.479 guess the mayor is a piece of shit in both things, 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:36.840 but like everyone seems more like a piece of shit 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.840 and more complicated in the world of the book, like 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:42.320 there aren't really the Spielbergie heroes that you get. But 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.320 I guess that the book takes more care in a 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.520 way that I was like, oh, because I like, I 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:49.359 don't know, like recognize that dynamic from my mom's community, 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:54.879 Like takes way more pains to describe the consequences and 0:20:54.920 --> 0:21:00.160 the dependency that the community has, and how severely many 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.800 of the residence, like the full time residence of their 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:07.720 community would suffer if the summer economy were to disappear. 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.679 And so while it's still ultimately I think painted in 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:15.720 the book as like the mayor is clearly making a 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.080 decision against the wellness of his people, I feel like 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:22.000 the Spielberg movie makes it as like he's more of 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.080 like a mister Crabs, like he's like our money, money, money, 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:27.879 I want money for myself and just me, Whereas I 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:30.800 guess the mayor of the book is like, well, like yoh, 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.919 there's a shark. Oh, it's killing everybody, but otherwise, like 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:36.840 people won't be able to pay their rents. Like it's 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:40.000 presented as a more complicated thing where I feel like 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:44.200 in the like the people in Amity and This are 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:49.199 more like they're very sheeple vibes versus like we're not 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:51.159 I mean, And it's like the movie can only do 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:52.479 so much. But I feel like the people who are 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:56.000 like the working class normal people are made out to 0:21:56.040 --> 0:22:00.679 be like very not smart as opposed to like, this 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:04.480 is a very complex issue, but also they're about to 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.520 get eaten by a fucking shark. It's not like, you know, 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:09.480 it's not like Brody's. 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:14.360 Wrong, right, Yeah, the movie seems to kind of oversimplify 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:19.040 it slash like lean into the villainization of the Mayor character, but. 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:22.119 It's also I don't hate, but no, it works. It 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:24.480 still works. I just I just thought I was like, Oh, 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.639 I would be interested in like alternate universe version of 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.000 the movie where you know, you had a character that's 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:34.840 like but I am, like I run a small business 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:38.280 or like a small restaurant, and if summer people weren't here, 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:41.280 I wouldn't be able to YadA YadA, you. 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:44.960 Know right what, Yeah, the movie definitely glasses over that. Yeah, 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:49.400 but in any case, Mayor Vaughn is like, pitshposh, there's 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:53.080 no shark. Then we cut to the beach. There's lots 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.640 of people having a nice time. Brody is there keeping 0:22:56.680 --> 0:23:02.040 an eye on things because he's very anxious that everyone's 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:04.880 going to be eaten by a shark. There's a kid 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.080 there who is singing do you know the muffin Man? 0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:10.960 And we're like, okay, Shrek vibes. 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:12.120 Uh huh huh. 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:15.320 Just had to throw that out there. And then there's 0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:19.320 another little boy, Alex Kittner, who goes in the water 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:25.880 and soon after a shark attacks and kills him. This 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:31.600 prompts a frenzy in town. Missus Kittner, Alex's mother is 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:35.280 offering a three thousand dollars reward to the person who 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:39.879 kills the shark that killed her son. And this town 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:43.480 hall meeting is called and Brody says that he's going 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:47.360 to close down the beaches, which upsets, you know, quite 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:51.119 a few of the townspeople because they have businesses that 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:53.800 rely on tourism. So it isn't just the mayor like, 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:59.320 there are townspeople who are like I need summer dollars 0:23:59.359 --> 0:23:59.920 to serve. 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:03.320 It's just very yes, I just, I just I guess again, 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:05.960 it's just like they're to me, are presented is very 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:10.520 like you fucking fool, You're gonna die, which is true. 0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:13.480 But it's also like if we're thinking of Jaws being 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:17.560 the if Jaws is capitalism, you know, et cetera. 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:21.040 Yeah, I controversially think that the sharks did nothing wrong 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:23.400 and that the real villain of the movie is capitalism. 0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:26.320 Well, it's also like, you know, the shark. I guess 0:24:26.359 --> 0:24:29.200 that that's I don't know about sharks, but I learned 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:32.840 about sharks for the purposes of today, and uh a 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:36.000 shark probably wouldn't wouldn't have done any of that shit. 0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:36.720 True. 0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:38.600 And then there's like, I know, we'll talk about it, 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:42.000 but like the author of Jaws went on to become 0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:44.000 a shark conservationist, Like. 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:47.399 Yeah, because he felt guilty about the aftermath of Jaws. 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:51.640 Yeah, he's like, oops, I was just kidding you guys. 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:55.680 I didn't think anyone was gonna read all that kind 0:24:55.680 --> 0:24:59.119 of fun. Peter Benchley. Yeah, yeah, he's like oops, and 0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:01.199 then he spent and now he's like a legend in 0:25:01.280 --> 0:25:03.199 the shark community. 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:07.080 Yeah, yeah, there's a shark named after him. I found out. 0:25:07.160 --> 0:25:07.360 Yep. 0:25:07.440 --> 0:25:10.760 Yeah, we'll talk more about that. But we're at this 0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:15.360 town meeting and then we hear fingernails on a chalkboard 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:20.280 and they belong to Quint, the Robert Shaw character. He's 0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:24.040 an eccentric local fisherman who says that he'll catch and 0:25:24.119 --> 0:25:27.600 kill this shark, but it's not gonna be pretty. I 0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:29.920 he'll do it for no less than ten thousand dollars. 0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:32.560 Quint. All right, I'm gonna say this because I don't 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:35.080 think I think since my mom stopped commuting, I don't 0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:37.840 think she listens to the show anymore. So if you've 0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:41.640 noticed a change in numbers by one, that's probably her, 0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:45.280 Which is why I feel comfortable saying Quint does not 0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:48.000 not remind me of some of my mom's ex boyfriends, 0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:52.439 whoa okay, just the guys that have spent a little 0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:56.720 bit too much time in the sun. Maybe. Yeah. 0:25:56.800 --> 0:26:00.119 I mean, he's he's kookie, and he's just been in 0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:02.159 the sun a lot. He's been in the sun, and 0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:04.640 he's been out on a boat all by himself. 0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:07.880 He's had too much. He's had a couple of natty daddies. 0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:11.840 Let's say that, what's that? It's a fisher Well, it's 0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:13.840 like a cheap beer, but it's like a cheap beer 0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:18.359 that's extra. It's like turbo beer. Whoa that? I don't know. 0:26:18.440 --> 0:26:22.520 My mom dated a couple lobster men in her time, 0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:25.359 and Natty Daddy was sort of the lobsterman drink of 0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:29.600 choice because it was beer, but it was stronger. Wow, 0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:32.879 natty daddies, I can't funk with It's it's they're pretty nasty, 0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:36.040 but they're strong. It's like a buzzball for beer drinkers. 0:26:36.040 --> 0:26:38.760 Oh okay, got it. We do see him drinking a 0:26:38.840 --> 0:26:43.679 narrogast on the boat later on, and I just matters. 0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:46.080 It really brought back. It brought me back to my 0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:47.960 days of living in Boston. 0:26:48.640 --> 0:26:51.520 Well, I love going home and having a little Ganst 0:26:51.760 --> 0:26:53.160 Shandy in the summer time. 0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:54.359 That's nice. 0:26:54.400 --> 0:26:57.960 But yeah, he's got he's cookie fishermen vibes. 0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:02.320 And everyone's like sure, yeah, we'll think about it. Because 0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:05.639 he like makes this proposition and no one takes him seriously. 0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:08.480 No one is asking the question I'm asking, which is 0:27:08.520 --> 0:27:13.480 what is this accent? Where? Like where are you from? 0:27:14.080 --> 0:27:18.680 What doesn't matter not important, it's perfect, it's great. Every 0:27:18.760 --> 0:27:20.720 choice being made is the right choice. 0:27:20.880 --> 0:27:27.720 Agree. So after this, Brody starts researching sharks. He's astonished 0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:31.119 at how little is known about them, which I think 0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:33.240 at the time was like, pretty true. There wasn't a 0:27:33.240 --> 0:27:35.639 lot of like scientific shark research. 0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:39.240 You could just say anything about sharks, which is how Yeah, 0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:42.040 and then Robert Benchley regretted it exactly. 0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:48.040 Meanwhile, a couple like local guys set up a shark 0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:52.879 trap hoping to get that reward money, and the shark 0:27:53.040 --> 0:27:57.520 takes the bait, but the guys don't end up catching it, 0:27:57.680 --> 0:28:02.119 and the one guy almost gets killed. So just another 0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:05.840 reminder at what they're up against. And then more people 0:28:05.880 --> 0:28:08.399 come into town hoping to catch this shark and get 0:28:08.440 --> 0:28:11.280 the reward money, but most of them don't know what 0:28:11.280 --> 0:28:15.679 they're doing. They're being reckless. It's chaotic. And then a 0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:19.760 guy named Hooper, this is the Richard Dreyfus character, arrives 0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:24.960 in town. He's a marine biologist from the Oceanographic Institute 0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:30.639 there to lend his expertise, which in this case means 0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:33.800 I agree, we have to kill this shark, not like 0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:39.840 let's do something else, Like I'm a scientist, and shouldn't 0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:40.800 I be doing like. 0:28:40.800 --> 0:28:43.880 Chris, maybe we should like catch this shark. Yeah, I 0:28:43.920 --> 0:28:45.560 think that's reasonable. 0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:46.400 But he's like, no, let's kill it. 0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:48.440 It's reasonable to catch the shark. Right. 0:28:49.160 --> 0:28:52.440 So Matt Hooper is there to say what he knows 0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:57.880 about sharks, and he examines the remains of the young woman, Chrissy, 0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:01.680 who was attacked in the first scene and concludes that 0:29:01.800 --> 0:29:04.960 it is definitely a shark attack. It was not a 0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:09.320 boating accident, and he's furious that the authorities in town 0:29:09.880 --> 0:29:15.760 have been extremely negligent about this. We then cut to 0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:19.680 a shark that has been captured and killed, and everyone 0:29:19.840 --> 0:29:23.200 is rejoicing because they assume that it's the shark that 0:29:23.240 --> 0:29:24.520 has been attacking people. 0:29:24.880 --> 0:29:27.760 That's so funny. It's like that illustrates exactly how much 0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:30.040 in this world people don't know about sharks because they're like, 0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:34.480 there's only one shark. Ever, we got it at ever, 0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:37.760 we killed a shark, right. 0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:41.000 But Hooper is like, well, this is a tiger shark 0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:44.760 and its bite radius doesn't really match up with the 0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:48.160 wounds on Chrissy. This shark seems too small. This shark 0:29:48.240 --> 0:29:51.840 is innocent. Yes, we killed an innocent shark. Oh sad, 0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:54.600 and he's like, the only way to be sure, though, 0:29:54.880 --> 0:29:57.880 is to cut the animal open and see what's in 0:29:57.920 --> 0:30:01.840 its digestive tract. The mayor is not fond of this idea, 0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:07.479 and then missus Kittner approaches Brody to slap him and 0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:10.000 be like, I just found out that you knew about 0:30:10.000 --> 0:30:12.520 a girl getting killed here last week, and you knew 0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:16.080 these waters were unsafe, and you let people go swimming anyway, 0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:17.040 and now my. 0:30:17.160 --> 0:30:20.840 Boy is dead, and great scene. 0:30:22.560 --> 0:30:27.920 And now Brody is feeling some feelings such as guilt, 0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:32.040 and he goes home and he's like drinking a pint 0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:35.520 of wine and Hooper shows up. Oh, I guess he 0:30:35.560 --> 0:30:38.040 starts drinking the pint of wine after Hooper shows up, 0:30:38.320 --> 0:30:41.800 because Hooper brings the bottle of wine. Anyway, Hooper shows 0:30:41.880 --> 0:30:45.280 up to be like, hey, again, I'm pretty sure that 0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:50.320 shark that got caught is not the shark. And so 0:30:50.400 --> 0:30:53.760 they go to the docks and they cut open this 0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:57.760 shark and confirm Hooper's suspicion that this was not the 0:30:57.800 --> 0:31:01.480 shark who killed the little boy, which means the killer 0:31:01.560 --> 0:31:05.760 shark is still on the loose. So then Hooper and 0:31:05.800 --> 0:31:09.160 Brody go out on a boat, which, by the way, 0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:12.520 Brody is very scared of the water, so this is 0:31:12.560 --> 0:31:13.360 difficult for him. 0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:17.120 Yeah. I think fear of the ocean is the world's 0:31:17.120 --> 0:31:21.200 most reasonable fear. I personally am afraid of the ocean. 0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:23.040 It is too big. 0:31:23.400 --> 0:31:27.640 It is really big, and there's so many scary things inside. 0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:29.960 I know that you're supposed to be full of with 0:31:30.000 --> 0:31:32.640 a sense of wonder, but that's just not my story. 0:31:34.000 --> 0:31:37.400 And that's okay. I am afraid of any water that 0:31:37.560 --> 0:31:40.600 I cannot see the bottom of. So even like a 0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:44.200 shallow pond, if it's murky and I don't know what's 0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:46.200 what the ground looks like, I'm scared. 0:31:46.200 --> 0:31:49.760 There's probably a murderer. Yeah, at the bottom there is. 0:31:50.400 --> 0:31:53.360 There's a famous movie about the ocean, and guess who 0:31:53.440 --> 0:31:57.560 wins the ocean. The movie's called Titanic. Yeah, the ocean 0:31:57.640 --> 0:32:02.200 always wins. Wow. Movie sets a false expectation of challenging 0:32:02.200 --> 0:32:02.680 the ocean. 0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:08.280 You're oh, you're so true. Yeah. Wow. Anyway, that's why 0:32:08.320 --> 0:32:11.480 I only go swimming in swimming pools, thank you very much. 0:32:11.760 --> 0:32:12.160 Yeah. 0:32:12.240 --> 0:32:15.760 Okay. So then so they're out on this boat, Brody 0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:18.680 and Hooper, and they're looking for the big bad Boy Shark, 0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:24.880 using all of Hooper's fancy ocean sonar equipment that he 0:32:24.960 --> 0:32:29.160 bought himself because he comes from a wealthy family. And 0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:34.280 they come upon the half sunken boat of a local fisherman, 0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:38.680 and Hooper insists on putting on scuba gear and going 0:32:38.720 --> 0:32:41.640 to check it out, which to me seems like a 0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:46.080 very bad idea, what with the ravenous shark on the 0:32:46.120 --> 0:32:48.840 loose and all. Yeah, but he goes in the water 0:32:49.000 --> 0:32:51.240 and he finds a huge hole bitten out of the 0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:54.640 bottom of the boat. He finds a huge shark tooth. 0:32:55.320 --> 0:32:58.400 A very very funny dummy. 0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:00.000 Yeah. 0:33:00.200 --> 0:33:03.480 I was like, it is actually having seen I've seen 0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:08.920 Jaws in theaters twice now, and it is unbelievably effective 0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:11.240 in a crowd. I was so scared the first time 0:33:11.320 --> 0:33:13.200 I saw it in theaters. And then when you see 0:33:13.240 --> 0:33:14.480 it and you can pause. 0:33:14.160 --> 0:33:17.480 You're like, oh, it's a little silly, but silly, it's 0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:18.640 a great jump scare. 0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:22.200 Everything is so and also like so much of the like, 0:33:22.320 --> 0:33:24.240 oh should I get in the water? Shit, It's just 0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:26.000 I do feel like this movie. He does a great 0:33:26.040 --> 0:33:30.400 job at having a like three way dick measuring contest 0:33:30.480 --> 0:33:33.200 between these men and they're all there are coming from 0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:34.959 such a different place, but all of them are like, 0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:39.600 oh you think that was hazardous to your safety, well 0:33:39.720 --> 0:33:44.000 check out. Like it's just so like masculine, and it 0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:47.520 also feels very aware of what it's doing, especially between 0:33:48.040 --> 0:33:49.400 Hooper and Quint. 0:33:49.720 --> 0:33:53.560 Definitely, it's just awesome. There's a great moment, speaking of 0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:58.160 the narrogainst there's that moment where Quint chugs his cann 0:33:58.160 --> 0:34:01.400 of beer and then crushes it with his hand, and 0:34:01.440 --> 0:34:05.680 then it cuts to Hooper who then takes the final 0:34:06.160 --> 0:34:09.440 swig of his coffee in a styropham cup and then 0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:11.279 crushes the cup. 0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:14.359 Which I guess is like somewhat improvised on the day, 0:34:14.560 --> 0:34:18.640 which is because of this whole like legendary feud between 0:34:18.960 --> 0:34:21.399 Robert Shaw and Richard Dreyfus, which we can talk about 0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:24.520 in a bit. It's not super relevant to like our discussion, 0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:25.640 but it is interesting. 0:34:25.960 --> 0:34:32.360 Yeah. So anyway, they find this dead fisherman and the 0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:37.400 huge shark tooths and everything, and it's scary and they 0:34:37.440 --> 0:34:40.240 come back to shore and tell the mayor to close 0:34:40.280 --> 0:34:45.960 the beach because a great white shark is in their midst. 0:34:46.160 --> 0:34:50.040 That's what this like tooth confirms, but the mayor is like, 0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:54.640 it's the fourth of July weekend, I cannot and will 0:34:54.680 --> 0:34:58.880 not close the beach. Then tons of tourists arrive for 0:34:58.920 --> 0:35:02.439 the holiday weekend. People are on the beach and they're 0:35:02.480 --> 0:35:07.160 apprehensively going in the water. But then a shark fin 0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:11.319 is spotted and everyone panics and rushes out, and this 0:35:11.560 --> 0:35:16.359 like shark patrol are about to shoot what they think 0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:18.160 is a shark, but it turns out to be two 0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:19.720 boys playing a prank. 0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:22.040 Close call for them. 0:35:22.080 --> 0:35:27.520 Meanwhile, in shallower water, the real shark is spotted, and 0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:30.759 this is where Brody's son Michael is playing with his 0:35:31.040 --> 0:35:35.400 friends and the shark is coming for them. A nearby 0:35:35.480 --> 0:35:39.320 man is attacked and killed, though the kids are pulled 0:35:39.360 --> 0:35:42.560 to safety and Michael goes into shock and has to 0:35:42.600 --> 0:35:47.480 go to the hospital and stuff. And then Brody convinces 0:35:47.520 --> 0:35:49.799 the mayor to sign a voucher so that he can 0:35:49.880 --> 0:35:52.520 hire Quint to kill the shark once and for all. 0:35:53.120 --> 0:35:59.319 So Quin, Brody, and Hooper make preparations. Again Quin, who 0:35:59.400 --> 0:36:04.040 is this like grizzled working class fishermen, is like, who 0:36:04.040 --> 0:36:07.320 the fuck is this? Hooper guy with his soft hands 0:36:07.360 --> 0:36:11.919 and money in his pockets, so there's you know, animosity 0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:17.800 between them. They pack up various weapons, equipment, a shark cage, 0:36:17.840 --> 0:36:22.799 et cetera, and then Captain Quint says, take her to 0:36:22.840 --> 0:36:25.320 see mister Murdoch. Let's stretch her legs. 0:36:25.600 --> 0:36:29.840 Except this is not the largest ship to ever sail 0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:32.719 the Atlantic, not by a long shot. 0:36:32.480 --> 0:36:35.879 And in fact, maybe they need a bigger ship the boat. 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:37.720 It's been said, it's been said. 0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:41.480 So they set off to the seas to try to 0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:45.640 find this great white shark. They're dropping bait, they're trying 0:36:45.680 --> 0:36:51.000 to lure it in with chum. There's this moment where 0:36:51.160 --> 0:36:56.040 Brody accidentally drops some tanks of compressed oxygen and Hooper 0:36:56.120 --> 0:37:00.120 is like careful, those can explode, and we're like, okay, 0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:04.239 Chekhov's air tanks. Then it seems like the shark has 0:37:04.440 --> 0:37:07.759 taken the bait and they're trying to reel it in 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:12.799 on this like huge fish line. But they lose it 0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:16.040 after a while, until Brody gets a glimpse of it 0:37:16.080 --> 0:37:19.320 as he's throwing more chum in the water, that famous 0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:22.520 scene where he like his head pops up into frame. 0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:24.359 Oh it's great, so good. 0:37:24.680 --> 0:37:26.640 And then right after this is when we get the 0:37:26.640 --> 0:37:30.800 famous line of You're gonna need a bigger boat because 0:37:30.800 --> 0:37:34.200 this shark is huge. It's like twenty five feet long. 0:37:34.320 --> 0:37:39.160 It's almost like it's an animal. It's a malfunctioning animatronic almost, 0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:40.160 and who can say. 0:37:40.480 --> 0:37:44.319 Yeah. The shark is now circling the boat, so they 0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:48.600 fire harpoons at it that are attached to these floating 0:37:48.600 --> 0:37:52.520 barrels so they can easily track the shark and try 0:37:52.560 --> 0:37:54.960 to prevent it from going under. But this shark is 0:37:55.000 --> 0:37:58.880 so strong and big that it pulls the barrel under, 0:37:59.200 --> 0:38:02.120 so they lose it again in the hours where on 0:38:02.960 --> 0:38:08.680 nightfalls they start drinking and comparing injuries from the past 0:38:08.960 --> 0:38:13.000 and they're sharing stories, including one that provides backstory for Quint, 0:38:13.080 --> 0:38:16.520 which is that he was a soldier in World War 0:38:16.560 --> 0:38:20.840 Two on the real life naval ship called the USS Indianapolis, 0:38:21.560 --> 0:38:26.000 which sunk twelve hundred people went into the water, and 0:38:26.160 --> 0:38:32.000 the survivors floated there for days while sharks started circling 0:38:32.080 --> 0:38:34.799 them and picking men off one by one. 0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:38.880 So this is a very fabric We kind of circle 0:38:38.920 --> 0:38:42.840 back to this. This is so such an effective moment 0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:45.720 in the movie right where it's like taking this stock 0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:50.440 character and giving him like unbelievable depth to like the 0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:54.520 degree to which you're just like, oh my god. Yeah, 0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:58.080 I didn't realize. I didn't realize, you know. I mean, 0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:00.600 there's a lot to be said. I did a little 0:39:00.600 --> 0:39:02.480 bit of research into like this was added. This is 0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:04.920 not in the book. This is added for the movie 0:39:05.000 --> 0:39:08.200 they hired. There was like I forget there there was. 0:39:08.400 --> 0:39:11.080 This movie mainly was by Peter Benchley and one other 0:39:11.120 --> 0:39:14.479 writer who worked frequently with Steve Martin. He also wrote 0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:15.760 The Jerk question Mark. 0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:17.120 Oh, Carl Gottlieb. 0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:19.600 But this was a third writer, a secret third writer 0:39:19.960 --> 0:39:23.279 who had the idea for this monologue, wrote it out, 0:39:23.640 --> 0:39:27.000 gave it to Robert Shaw. Robert Shaw rewrote it for himself. 0:39:27.280 --> 0:39:29.440 He is also he's a writer, and I guess the 0:39:29.440 --> 0:39:32.400 speech was like seven pages long. But this is all 0:39:32.480 --> 0:39:34.360 like I thought it was it because it's such a 0:39:34.400 --> 0:39:36.640 specific detail that I thought was like, this has to 0:39:36.680 --> 0:39:40.200 be from the book, but it's not. And it's so effective, 0:39:40.560 --> 0:39:44.520 if overblown, and like what I didn't get from this 0:39:44.560 --> 0:39:48.600 because it's they're talking about like they were transporting parts 0:39:48.640 --> 0:39:52.680 of a bomb that would decimate areas of Japan, Right, Yeah, 0:39:52.719 --> 0:39:55.840 what I was looking up. I don't know if this 0:39:55.920 --> 0:39:59.240 is in the speech not to but like they didn't 0:39:59.280 --> 0:40:01.440 know they were doing They knew they were on a 0:40:01.480 --> 0:40:03.840 secret mission, they knew they were bringing parts of something, 0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:07.279 but they didn't even know what they were transporting, so 0:40:07.320 --> 0:40:12.919 they were they'd just done something absolutely horrible unbeknownst to them, 0:40:13.120 --> 0:40:18.239 which is just like very darkly fascinating to me. But 0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:20.520 at the point being, this is a true story, but 0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:24.120 like the shark involvement is way overblown. Most people died 0:40:24.160 --> 0:40:28.840 of hypothermia, there were sharks around. But when I was 0:40:28.880 --> 0:40:31.560 like reviewing this speech, I was like, he's implying that 0:40:31.760 --> 0:40:35.160 like six hundred people got eaten by sharks. Yeah, that 0:40:35.320 --> 0:40:37.640 was not the case. It worked. It's better if that 0:40:37.760 --> 0:40:40.400 happened for the movie. But I just was, really, this 0:40:40.520 --> 0:40:43.160 was not something that I I don't know. I mean, 0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:46.200 like I've seen the movie several times and I know 0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:49.120 that they cite something specific, but I just never learned 0:40:49.120 --> 0:40:53.040 anymore about it. And it is a very it is 0:40:53.080 --> 0:40:57.040 a very horrible story. I would uh, I would drink 0:40:57.080 --> 0:40:58.720 too truly. 0:40:59.040 --> 0:41:04.080 Yeah, and apparently there's a Nicholas Cage movie about the 0:41:04.239 --> 0:41:08.320 USS Indianapolis, Like about sure, there is story. 0:41:08.600 --> 0:41:11.600 I think I'll skip it, but that's yeah. In the 0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:14.040 documentary I watched, there was also people who were on 0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:16.719 the USS Indianapolis interviewed for the documentary. 0:41:16.920 --> 0:41:20.880 Yeah, I watched the same interviews, and it seemed like 0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:24.200 there were mixed reactions to the Robert Shaw speech in 0:41:24.239 --> 0:41:27.280 the movie where they were like appreciative that this character 0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:31.279 brings this story to life because it was like this 0:41:31.400 --> 0:41:37.640 secret mission that was not disclosed to anyone for a 0:41:37.719 --> 0:41:42.359 long time afterward, and a lot of the survivors just 0:41:42.480 --> 0:41:48.080 like never either couldn't tell anyone or didn't tell anyone 0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:52.799 because you know, this was especially an era where men 0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:56.360 didn't address their feelings or their trauma and they just 0:41:56.400 --> 0:41:59.920 buried it and tried to move on with their lives. 0:42:00.160 --> 0:42:02.239 So they were like, this is the first time I 0:42:02.239 --> 0:42:06.120 ever saw my story told on screen, which. 0:42:05.920 --> 0:42:09.000 Is important, but it's I don't know, it's very tricky too, 0:42:09.040 --> 0:42:12.680 because it's like again it's like, I'm aware that the 0:42:12.719 --> 0:42:16.800 soldiers aboard the USS Indianapolis did not know that they. 0:42:16.680 --> 0:42:19.520 Were delivery doing a war crime. 0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:24.799 Yeah, we're war criming, which makes it more tragic to me. 0:42:25.600 --> 0:42:28.759 And it's I don't know, it's complicated. I think it's 0:42:28.800 --> 0:42:30.560 at the end of the day, I was like, that 0:42:30.800 --> 0:42:34.720 was a very interesting and surprising choice in the world 0:42:34.760 --> 0:42:35.080 of the. 0:42:35.080 --> 0:42:39.239 Movie, especially to refer to this real life event, because 0:42:39.239 --> 0:42:42.640 it could have easily just been like a made up mission, 0:42:42.719 --> 0:42:45.640 a made up ship, yeah, in World War Two. 0:42:46.000 --> 0:42:49.399 But it weirdly makes the movie feel more real. Yeah, 0:42:49.880 --> 0:42:52.160 in some ways where it's this I think, you know whatever. 0:42:52.200 --> 0:42:54.160 Part of the reason I think the movie holds up 0:42:54.239 --> 0:42:56.680 is to some extent it feels like it takes place 0:42:56.719 --> 0:43:01.000 out of time. There are some like dated aspects of it, 0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:03.600 but for the most part, like it's not like they're 0:43:03.680 --> 0:43:06.040 using you know, it's it's not like you're watching a 0:43:06.040 --> 0:43:07.400 movie that comes out in two thousand and two and 0:43:07.480 --> 0:43:09.960 someone takes out like an ancient cell phone and you're 0:43:10.000 --> 0:43:12.520 kind of taken out of it for a second. But yeah, 0:43:12.719 --> 0:43:17.080 just like having a real life like horrific story of 0:43:17.160 --> 0:43:20.960 veterans PTSD that there are people who like it, just 0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:23.560 I don't know it really it really brings stuff home 0:43:23.560 --> 0:43:28.040 and it makes the character so much more memorable for sure, 0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:31.920 and Robert Shaw slays it. Yeah, there's also like a 0:43:31.960 --> 0:43:33.880 while there's so much written about the production of this 0:43:33.920 --> 0:43:37.400 movie that he because he had like severe alcoholism. He 0:43:37.400 --> 0:43:41.319 struggled a lot with alcoholism, as did his father. But 0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:43.680 there's like two takes of this scene, and the first 0:43:43.680 --> 0:43:46.480 one Robert Shaw was like, I'm gonna have a few 0:43:46.560 --> 0:43:50.040 drinks before and then was like too drunk to complete 0:43:50.120 --> 0:43:53.600 the scene. And then I don't know, I just I 0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:56.280 feel he's it seems like he's really struggling. He called 0:43:56.320 --> 0:43:58.880 Spielberg and was like, did I embarrass you? I'm sorry, 0:43:59.320 --> 0:44:03.440 and Spielberg was like, it's all good, King, just just 0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:06.240 don't do that tomorrow. And then he didn't do that tomorrow. 0:44:06.280 --> 0:44:08.960 He shut up and gave the speech that we saw, 0:44:09.239 --> 0:44:10.560 and it's great. 0:44:11.120 --> 0:44:13.879 I think this is part of that documentary too, though, 0:44:13.880 --> 0:44:17.000 that he did two takes of it, one completely hammered 0:44:17.040 --> 0:44:19.759 and one completely sober. And then a lot of people 0:44:19.800 --> 0:44:22.040 were like, I couldn't tell the difference. He's just such 0:44:22.040 --> 0:44:25.120 a good actor that like he nailed at both times. 0:44:25.320 --> 0:44:29.759 I just really was so endeared to him. Yeah, I 0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:30.799 like him a lot. 0:44:31.920 --> 0:44:36.360 So anyway, we get this story from Quint that informs 0:44:36.840 --> 0:44:41.239 why he is like fascinated but also has a vendetta 0:44:41.320 --> 0:44:42.759 against sharks. 0:44:43.120 --> 0:44:45.520 Very captain ahab vibes right. 0:44:45.520 --> 0:44:49.480 Right, right right. Then there's a series of like the 0:44:49.600 --> 0:44:53.240 shark comes back, it rams their boat, It disappears again, 0:44:53.480 --> 0:44:57.680 then comes back again, and they shoot it with another 0:44:58.000 --> 0:45:03.759 like barrel harpoon, and tie the ropes attached to the 0:45:03.760 --> 0:45:06.879 barrel to the back of the boat the stern if 0:45:06.920 --> 0:45:11.880 you will, to try to pull the shark toward shallower 0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:15.239 waters to kill it there. But the shark is so 0:45:15.360 --> 0:45:19.640 strong that it's pulling the boat around and the boat 0:45:19.640 --> 0:45:22.560 starts taking on water, so they have to cut the 0:45:22.600 --> 0:45:26.879 shark loose. Now there are three barrels attached to it, 0:45:27.160 --> 0:45:31.200 which means theoretically the shark cannot go underwater. But this 0:45:31.360 --> 0:45:35.320 shark isn't like the other sharks, and it can do anything. 0:45:36.480 --> 0:45:41.919 And then the shark starts chasing their boat, so again 0:45:41.960 --> 0:45:46.640 they try to lead it toward shore. But quint is 0:45:47.320 --> 0:45:52.160 acting a little cuckoo bananas, and he's like pushing the 0:45:52.200 --> 0:45:56.320 engines too hard. He's like overheating them. They're like catching fire. 0:45:57.000 --> 0:46:01.040 The boat is lightly sinking. Also, he has smashed up 0:46:01.040 --> 0:46:03.200 the radio, so they can't call for help. 0:46:03.719 --> 0:46:06.759 He shouldn't he he should not have done that. 0:46:06.880 --> 0:46:09.800 He should not have done that. 0:46:08.719 --> 0:46:11.320 That was I wish I could tell him if I 0:46:11.320 --> 0:46:13.640 could reach into my TV, I'd be like, oh, don't, 0:46:13.880 --> 0:46:16.680 why'd you do that? Instead of going to therapy? What's 0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:20.480 that horrible god that like really tired meme where it's 0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:26.120 like men will smash the only radio communications on the Jaws, 0:46:26.160 --> 0:46:28.080 But instead of going to therapy. That's kind of his 0:46:28.160 --> 0:46:29.240 whole vibe. 0:46:29.239 --> 0:46:31.880 That is his whole vibe. So now they have to 0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:36.560 switch to Plan B, which is Hooper is going to 0:46:36.680 --> 0:46:42.200 go into the water inside the shark cage and lure 0:46:42.320 --> 0:46:46.400 the shark close enough so that he can like stab 0:46:46.440 --> 0:46:49.319 it in the eye or mouth and inject it with 0:46:49.440 --> 0:46:55.680 a lethal poison. But the cage seems very flimsy compared 0:46:55.719 --> 0:46:58.360 to this goliath of a shark, so it seems like 0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:00.759 a bad plan, but they don't really have any their options. 0:47:01.360 --> 0:47:03.480 So Hooper goes in the cage in the water, and 0:47:03.520 --> 0:47:07.440 of course, the shark immediately breaks the cage apart. Hooper 0:47:07.560 --> 0:47:10.960 drops his giant syringe of poison and he's about to 0:47:11.000 --> 0:47:14.640 be eaten, and Brody and Quint pull the cage to 0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:17.560 the surface and it's empty, so it seems like Hooper 0:47:17.800 --> 0:47:24.160 is dead. The shark is now eating the very sinking boat. 0:47:24.719 --> 0:47:28.759 This is the part where Quint basically falls into the 0:47:28.880 --> 0:47:32.239 shark's mouth. It is brutal. 0:47:32.680 --> 0:47:39.320 It's brutal. It's all you're like, mm hmmm, symbolism maybe yeah, yes, 0:47:40.560 --> 0:47:44.719 maybe either way, he's cooked. I also I liked the 0:47:44.840 --> 0:47:47.760 behind the scenes detail that they like that in the book, 0:47:47.920 --> 0:47:50.200 Hooper also dies, but they brought him back to life 0:47:50.200 --> 0:47:52.360 so that they could use a very specific shot of 0:47:52.400 --> 0:47:55.040 a real life shark attacking an empty cage. 0:47:55.480 --> 0:47:56.359 Yes, kind of. 0:47:56.280 --> 0:47:59.160 Fun because I also because I appreciated context for that, 0:47:59.239 --> 0:48:02.320 because I because I was like, he's also just because 0:48:02.520 --> 0:48:05.839 I don't like Richard drys But I was like, huh, 0:48:06.000 --> 0:48:09.040 he could have died. Yeah, I get that Brady's gotta live, 0:48:09.280 --> 0:48:10.239 but like he could have. 0:48:10.280 --> 0:48:13.600 Died well, because there's all these weird class implications. Now 0:48:13.680 --> 0:48:15.840 when you kill off the poor you know, the working 0:48:15.840 --> 0:48:20.560 class character, and you keep the more educated, wealthy guy alive. 0:48:21.000 --> 0:48:23.160 But I appreciate that that is not what it was. 0:48:23.440 --> 0:48:26.520 That was not the intention, right, It just was like, 0:48:26.640 --> 0:48:29.040 I do appreciate what it's like. There's a pretty simple 0:48:29.080 --> 0:48:32.399 explanation for what seems like a pointed choice. But they 0:48:32.520 --> 0:48:35.960 just wanted to use that scary shot of shark. I 0:48:36.000 --> 0:48:37.960 was like, okay, well then I will give you a 0:48:37.960 --> 0:48:39.719 pass on that. What. 0:48:40.520 --> 0:48:43.520 So Quinn is dead, we think that Hooper is dead. 0:48:44.080 --> 0:48:48.000 The shark comes back for Brody, and Brody throws one 0:48:48.040 --> 0:48:51.120 of the tanks of compressed oxygen into the shark's mouth 0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:54.480 and starts trying to shoot it. He keeps missing and missing, 0:48:54.560 --> 0:48:59.440 until finally he shoots the tank and it and the 0:48:59.480 --> 0:49:06.920 shark explode into smithereens. And then guess who resurfaces. It's Hooper, 0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:10.560 who did not get eaten, and he and Brody paddle 0:49:10.640 --> 0:49:17.319 back to shore on the barrels the Yeah, so let's 0:49:17.320 --> 0:49:28.240 take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss. 0:49:30.239 --> 0:49:35.560 Done done, and we're back. Okay. First thoughts on this movie. Obviously, 0:49:35.760 --> 0:49:41.879 we don't have women in it really, so really note 0:49:41.960 --> 0:49:45.040 number one, there's really not many women in it. I 0:49:45.040 --> 0:49:49.160 would say there are three, and one is chunkified by 0:49:49.960 --> 0:49:53.680 the shark in pretty short order. However, what I think 0:49:53.719 --> 0:49:59.800 this movie is great at is showing different shades of masculinity. 0:50:00.120 --> 0:50:03.160 I think that it is really really good at that. 0:50:03.360 --> 0:50:05.719 So it's an interesting conversation to be had because there 0:50:06.200 --> 0:50:10.880 are two women in particular who are generally kept to 0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:14.400 the side. They're generally defined by their marriages and motherhood. 0:50:14.600 --> 0:50:17.480 But the performances are really good, and they're I guess 0:50:18.080 --> 0:50:21.319 in movies of this nature, there is more than I 0:50:21.400 --> 0:50:24.279 expect it. I guess true with the two women we have. 0:50:24.440 --> 0:50:26.440 So I guess let's start there and then we'll talk 0:50:26.440 --> 0:50:28.120 about masculinity. 0:50:28.520 --> 0:50:34.200 Sure, sure, yeah, So, I mean, like many movies, this 0:50:34.239 --> 0:50:38.440 is a story about an important and dangerous task that 0:50:38.560 --> 0:50:42.000 needs to be carried out and who's gonna do it. Well, 0:50:42.040 --> 0:50:44.520 it's a bunch of men and women have to stay 0:50:44.520 --> 0:50:48.440 home and take care of the kids. Yeah, So, as 0:50:48.440 --> 0:50:52.080 we already talked about. Like Ellen again, played by Lorraine 0:50:52.120 --> 0:50:56.600 gary Is, she's a fun character when she is on screen. 0:50:57.000 --> 0:51:01.520 She's dynamic and she has a few fun lines here 0:51:01.560 --> 0:51:05.279 and there where she says want to get drunk and 0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:05.920 full around. 0:51:06.239 --> 0:51:08.640 That's to her husband, kind of her most icon like, 0:51:08.640 --> 0:51:13.759 that's her most iconic negligent parent moment. I love it. 0:51:13.800 --> 0:51:15.600 I love it, And. 0:51:15.560 --> 0:51:20.000 Then I also enjoy the part where she when Hooper 0:51:20.040 --> 0:51:23.479 comes over and she's like, oh, so my husband says 0:51:23.520 --> 0:51:27.239 that you're in sharks as if Like it's a like 0:51:27.280 --> 0:51:31.920 a division of sales that he's into. Pretty funny line. Yeah, 0:51:32.160 --> 0:51:35.720 But other than that, yeah, I mean, she's not given 0:51:35.719 --> 0:51:40.880 a whole lot. Apparently in the book, the Ellen character 0:51:41.960 --> 0:51:45.560 is given a much larger presence. In the book, she's 0:51:45.800 --> 0:51:47.719 more complicated and flawed. 0:51:47.719 --> 0:51:49.640 He's fucking Hooper, right. 0:51:49.760 --> 0:51:51.520 She's having an affair with Hooper. 0:51:52.000 --> 0:51:55.319 I'm yeah, I did not miss that. 0:51:55.760 --> 0:52:00.560 Yeah, that's glad the movie got rid of that. But 0:52:00.560 --> 0:52:03.640 it's also at the expense of we don't see her 0:52:03.760 --> 0:52:06.440 on screen, although the movie could have just written a 0:52:06.520 --> 0:52:08.799 different subplot for her or whatever. 0:52:08.800 --> 0:52:12.200 That's the thing. It's like, I don't like that. I 0:52:12.200 --> 0:52:15.000 don't like the way the book goes with her character. 0:52:15.120 --> 0:52:17.520 It feels like that is just a thing to give 0:52:17.719 --> 0:52:22.000 the Brodie character an excuse to be a misogynist. But 0:52:22.440 --> 0:52:25.799 I also think that there could have been more that 0:52:26.239 --> 0:52:29.239 she could have been involved in. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, 0:52:29.320 --> 0:52:34.560 they in like, there's no reason theoretically to me that 0:52:34.640 --> 0:52:37.080 the Hooper character specifically could not be a woman. I 0:52:37.080 --> 0:52:39.399 think would actually be far more interesting if the Hooper 0:52:39.480 --> 0:52:42.479 characters specifically were a woman, definitely a well educated woman 0:52:42.480 --> 0:52:46.799 of the seventies. Why not. I understand that quint. She's 0:52:46.880 --> 0:52:51.120 kind of inextricably a man. Fine, fine, fine, because a 0:52:51.160 --> 0:52:56.000 woman could not have been on the USS Indianapolis. But anyways, 0:52:56.040 --> 0:52:58.360 and it's not like I want girl cop. It's a 0:52:58.360 --> 0:53:01.840 complicated discussion. What I did think, I thought that the 0:53:01.920 --> 0:53:05.400 character of Ellen, she is present at moments that I 0:53:05.400 --> 0:53:07.680 didn't think she would be. This is peanut, but like, 0:53:08.360 --> 0:53:10.400 I did appreciate that there. Spielberg is really good at 0:53:10.440 --> 0:53:14.400 this of adding these like quiet family moments inside of 0:53:14.440 --> 0:53:18.280 genre movies that I feel like really make his movies special. 0:53:19.280 --> 0:53:23.120 And there is one of them here that I thought 0:53:23.200 --> 0:53:26.200 was very memorable, where it's like Brody is sitting with 0:53:26.239 --> 0:53:31.280 his youngest son. He is like really upset, understandably because 0:53:32.200 --> 0:53:36.040 the only other woman in the movie has just slapped 0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:40.920 him and said, my son's death was preventable, you bitch. Yeah, 0:53:40.920 --> 0:53:44.000 and she's right, and she's right, and he is like 0:53:44.080 --> 0:53:47.120 he knows it, and he knows it. And then his 0:53:47.200 --> 0:53:49.400 kid is sitting next to him, a clear reminder of 0:53:49.480 --> 0:53:51.960 like a kid around the age of the kid who died. 0:53:52.719 --> 0:53:55.360 And there's just like this really sweet moment that Ellen 0:53:55.640 --> 0:53:58.000 sees and is clearly very affected by that I thought 0:53:58.120 --> 0:54:00.640 was like just the moment you don't get in most 0:54:00.640 --> 0:54:03.359 genre movies. It's really good where you know, his kid 0:54:03.440 --> 0:54:06.120 is kind of like mirroring him like kids do, and 0:54:06.160 --> 0:54:08.600 then it's like, why are you upset? And he's like, 0:54:10.320 --> 0:54:14.720 I kill the kid. But just and that moment between 0:54:14.719 --> 0:54:16.600 like father and son of just like a moment of 0:54:16.640 --> 0:54:20.920 real affection and emotional honesty. It's just something you don't 0:54:20.960 --> 0:54:23.640 really see a lot, and it really endeared me to 0:54:24.520 --> 0:54:26.280 everyone in that scene totally. 0:54:26.320 --> 0:54:28.799 I made the same note because I mean, think of 0:54:28.840 --> 0:54:34.359 how many scenes where you see a man in emotional 0:54:34.600 --> 0:54:38.560 turmoil and he deals with it by trashing a room 0:54:38.960 --> 0:54:42.880 or lashing out in some a violent way, and to 0:54:43.000 --> 0:54:47.600 instead have this like very tender moment between father and son. 0:54:48.320 --> 0:54:50.800 I mean, the bar is low, but it was like 0:54:50.840 --> 0:54:54.680 a very refreshing moment that I appreciated. 0:54:55.000 --> 0:54:58.600 Yeah, I agree, and I think that like for its time, 0:54:58.719 --> 0:55:01.920 even though we're not lit, it seems like, honestly, the 0:55:01.960 --> 0:55:05.200 way that they're doing their family is very similar. It 0:55:05.400 --> 0:55:09.439 is very common for middle class and specifically white middle 0:55:09.440 --> 0:55:11.560 class families of this time where the wife does not 0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:13.000 appear to work. She seems to be a stay at 0:55:13.040 --> 0:55:14.640 home mom. Oh she does work. She's a stay at 0:55:14.640 --> 0:55:20.520 home mom, and the father is the you know, money breadwinner, right, 0:55:20.640 --> 0:55:25.080 But it seems like their relationship is pretty equitable, which 0:55:25.120 --> 0:55:27.839 I also appreciated. There's not a moment where Brody like 0:55:28.120 --> 0:55:31.160 keeps things from her. There's not really a moment where 0:55:31.200 --> 0:55:32.920 I feel like, again, just like what you come to 0:55:32.960 --> 0:55:35.480 expect in movies like this of this time, where the 0:55:35.560 --> 0:55:37.360 husband would be like, you don't get it, you can't. 0:55:37.160 --> 0:55:39.560 I was this again. It's a small thing, but the 0:55:39.560 --> 0:55:42.960 fact that she's in the room with Hooper and Brody 0:55:43.040 --> 0:55:45.480 the whole time they're talking about the shark again, I 0:55:45.480 --> 0:55:48.759 feel like a lesser movie, he'd be like, go, tuck 0:55:48.800 --> 0:55:50.719 the kids in or whatever, like she would be off 0:55:50.840 --> 0:55:52.799 doing woman stuff, and then she'd come in and be like, 0:55:52.920 --> 0:55:56.320 what's going on, And it's like she doesn't. She doesn't 0:55:56.320 --> 0:55:59.239 totally get what's going on, But neither does Brodie. And 0:55:59.320 --> 0:56:02.840 it's not like, you know, he is presented as hyper 0:56:02.880 --> 0:56:07.160 competent in comparison to her. I think really the only 0:56:07.480 --> 0:56:10.960 edge Brody has over his wife is that he is 0:56:11.760 --> 0:56:15.959 I think concerned the correct amount about sharks, and she's 0:56:16.000 --> 0:56:20.040 maybe not quite concerned the right amount about sharks because 0:56:20.440 --> 0:56:23.120 she's listening to the mayor and the media, which I 0:56:23.120 --> 0:56:25.520 don't think makes her a dupe. I think that she's 0:56:25.600 --> 0:56:27.400 kind of the stand in for like, well, what do 0:56:27.440 --> 0:56:29.840 you mean they said it's fine, they got a shark. 0:56:30.440 --> 0:56:32.600 I don't know. I just I liked how her Her 0:56:32.680 --> 0:56:37.759 character should have had more to do, but whenever she 0:56:37.880 --> 0:56:40.759 was present, I felt like she was a treated as 0:56:40.800 --> 0:56:45.120 an equal and had like a personality that was her own, 0:56:45.400 --> 0:56:48.600 which is the bare minimum you can ask of a character, 0:56:49.320 --> 0:56:52.439 but still in a genre movie in nineteen seventy five, 0:56:52.760 --> 0:56:55.920 I was like pleasantly surprised by it same and that 0:56:56.000 --> 0:56:58.880 she's allowed to be horny, want to get drunk and 0:56:58.920 --> 0:57:01.960 fool around public She well, she didn't publicly say she 0:57:01.960 --> 0:57:03.920 was hardy. She said she was harny. She didn't even 0:57:03.960 --> 0:57:07.400 know that there are people filming that. She said she 0:57:07.440 --> 0:57:10.719 was horny, and she didn't die. Again in the nineteen seventies, 0:57:10.960 --> 0:57:12.120 that didn't happen very much. 0:57:12.239 --> 0:57:15.239 I mean, well, let's look at what happens to the 0:57:15.280 --> 0:57:17.040 woman in the first scene, shall we. 0:57:17.560 --> 0:57:21.200 The first horny woman. Yeah, she is sacrificed to the 0:57:21.240 --> 0:57:21.800 shark god. 0:57:22.120 --> 0:57:26.960 So she again played by stunt performer an actor named 0:57:27.200 --> 0:57:33.680 Susan Jane Beckliney. She is naked and doesn't need to be, 0:57:34.320 --> 0:57:36.800 which is, you know, the common trope in horror movies 0:57:36.840 --> 0:57:40.160 that we've discussed a lot, where it's just like the 0:57:40.320 --> 0:57:46.480 sexualization of a woman as she's being brutally killed. Yeah, 0:57:46.520 --> 0:57:48.880 it's something we see all the time in horror movies. 0:57:49.320 --> 0:57:52.320 And this is not the worst offender of it. Which 0:57:52.360 --> 0:57:57.040 is interesting because I feel like when I think about 0:57:57.080 --> 0:58:01.120 that original death, I remember it as more sexualized than 0:58:01.160 --> 0:58:02.160 it actually. 0:58:01.800 --> 0:58:06.320 Is same And what is that? What are our brains doing? 0:58:07.240 --> 0:58:09.920 I think it's because there's just so many scenes that 0:58:09.960 --> 0:58:12.160 are inspired by it that are boy sexual. I don't 0:58:12.160 --> 0:58:15.160 necessarily think it's it's not it's it's not an US problem. 0:58:15.160 --> 0:58:17.440 I don't think, right, I remember it as we're sexualized, 0:58:17.480 --> 0:58:20.800 but I and I don't know. It's like Spielberg is 0:58:20.800 --> 0:58:25.480 not particularly guilty of over sexualizing women characters. I don't think, 0:58:25.520 --> 0:58:30.959 if anything, he's not. He's very like sanitized vibes. There's 0:58:31.000 --> 0:58:32.920 plenty to be I mean, we've talked about Steven Spielberg 0:58:32.960 --> 0:58:38.080 many times, and let's not forget the Zionism. Let's not 0:58:38.400 --> 0:58:40.520 in terms of how women are generally cheated. I think 0:58:40.520 --> 0:58:42.080 in his body of work, women don't tend to be 0:58:42.160 --> 0:58:44.600 hyper sexualized to the point where this almost feels like 0:58:44.640 --> 0:58:46.560 an outlier moment. 0:58:46.880 --> 0:58:48.840 Right, And maybe you can just chalk it up to 0:58:49.600 --> 0:58:53.680 this was his first big movie in the book, right also, 0:58:54.040 --> 0:58:57.240 and so maybe he's like, I'm not a huge fan 0:58:57.280 --> 0:58:59.720 of that. I'm not gonna do that again. And like, 0:59:00.120 --> 0:59:02.160 she is naked, but a lot of the naked, a 0:59:02.200 --> 0:59:04.000 lot of the nudity is implied. 0:59:04.120 --> 0:59:06.480 Although it's a very dark scene too. I think it's 0:59:06.520 --> 0:59:10.640 because like which I would imagine was related to just 0:59:10.720 --> 0:59:14.760 like production. But you really can't see very much. You 0:59:14.800 --> 0:59:16.920 can't because of how it shot. I don't know if 0:59:16.960 --> 0:59:20.360 the brightness on my TV is turned up too high. 0:59:20.880 --> 0:59:23.760 But for the first time watching this movie, I did 0:59:24.040 --> 0:59:27.000 you can see her nakedness under the water, like in 0:59:27.040 --> 0:59:29.320 the underwater shot or I like, yeah, like kind of 0:59:29.400 --> 0:59:34.240 an upshot. It's it's still pretty obscured and faint and 0:59:34.240 --> 0:59:36.320 difficult to see, but like you can see enough that 0:59:36.360 --> 0:59:39.080 I was like, oh, she's got full bush and good 0:59:39.080 --> 0:59:42.600 for her. But nineteen seventy five right back. 0:59:42.560 --> 0:59:45.760 Remember, right, So, but it's a quick shot and the 0:59:45.800 --> 0:59:50.760 rest of the time, you don't see nudity. 0:59:50.800 --> 0:59:53.040 Really so well. And also, I watch, like you said, 0:59:53.080 --> 0:59:56.520 it's not the worst defender. But but but and I 0:59:56.520 --> 0:59:59.520 don't know how involves Spielberg was in this, but that 0:59:59.640 --> 1:00:02.800 is an image that is harped on in marketing. I 1:00:02.840 --> 1:00:04.800 also think that that's another reason we remember it as 1:00:04.800 --> 1:00:08.880 more sexual than it actually is, because it is used 1:00:08.920 --> 1:00:11.640 as a selling point to imply that you're going to 1:00:11.680 --> 1:00:14.480 see and be titillated more than perhaps you actually are. 1:00:14.920 --> 1:00:18.320 I'm also pretty sure I didn't watch any of the sequels. 1:00:18.400 --> 1:00:20.640 I thought about it and then I thought, I'm not 1:00:20.720 --> 1:00:23.080 going to do that. But I do think that that 1:00:23.280 --> 1:00:27.840 is something that subsequent movies are in the Jaws fronchies 1:00:28.200 --> 1:00:33.080 are more guilty of Jaws hive if you've watched Jaws. 1:00:33.080 --> 1:00:35.160 I've weirdly seen Jaws four, but it was on one 1:00:35.200 --> 1:00:36.720 of those. I was on a show in New York 1:00:36.720 --> 1:00:40.000 that was like, we're making fun of Jaws four. Okay, 1:00:40.000 --> 1:00:43.120 so I don't really remember anything, but if the marketing 1:00:43.200 --> 1:00:45.920 is to be believed, it seems like this idea of 1:00:46.360 --> 1:00:50.200 sexy women being torn to shreds by a shark is 1:00:50.240 --> 1:00:52.520 an image that they return to time and time again. 1:00:52.560 --> 1:00:56.840 But in the movie itself, I think it's telling in 1:00:56.880 --> 1:00:59.400 that I mean, it is what it is. It is 1:00:59.440 --> 1:01:03.000 the movie with a young woman who is expressed that 1:01:03.040 --> 1:01:06.000 she's horny being torn to shreds by an animal. That's 1:01:06.040 --> 1:01:08.800 not great, made worse by the fact that she is 1:01:08.960 --> 1:01:13.200 one of three women in the entire movie. A batting 1:01:13.280 --> 1:01:16.200 average of one for three in terms of being torn 1:01:16.200 --> 1:01:20.400 to shreds is pretty bad. There are two men torn 1:01:20.440 --> 1:01:23.280 to shreds by the t and then one child. Yeah, 1:01:23.320 --> 1:01:25.200 there are two men, but there's so many men that 1:01:25.240 --> 1:01:27.840 I think that, you know, the batting average is actually 1:01:28.360 --> 1:01:31.840 not as bad by a long shot rip to her. 1:01:32.520 --> 1:01:34.560 And the thing that the other thing that frustrated me 1:01:35.440 --> 1:01:38.240 was that when the second victim of the shark, Alex 1:01:38.720 --> 1:01:43.640 Alex the kid, Yes, when he dies, there are narrative 1:01:43.880 --> 1:01:47.479 consequences for that. People do not seem to like there's 1:01:47.520 --> 1:01:53.280 no one from Chrissy's life that is like, she doesn't 1:01:53.320 --> 1:01:56.680 seem to be particularly grieved, which I also think, like 1:01:57.440 --> 1:02:03.000 is unrealistic given how the meeting tends to narrativize white 1:02:03.000 --> 1:02:07.440 women's death like sensational eyes. Yeah, like, yeah, I was 1:02:07.560 --> 1:02:10.360 kind of adrift by that because obviously I'm not that 1:02:10.920 --> 1:02:15.320 like Jaws eating a child. That's bad, that's no good. Yes, 1:02:15.640 --> 1:02:17.320 but it was just weird that, Yeah, there is this 1:02:17.400 --> 1:02:23.000 weird lack of reaction to a teenage girl getting eaten, right. 1:02:23.360 --> 1:02:27.160 I My head canon was like, oh, the mayor is 1:02:27.240 --> 1:02:31.760 like keeping it under wraps, which he can't do because 1:02:32.120 --> 1:02:36.400 everyone saw this child get killed. That was a very 1:02:36.520 --> 1:02:41.160 very public thing versus no one saw Christy get killed. 1:02:41.560 --> 1:02:43.280 That makes total sense. But I don't. 1:02:43.360 --> 1:02:46.240 But that's not that's again just my head canon. It's 1:02:46.320 --> 1:02:48.560 not explicitly in the movie Mayor. 1:02:48.880 --> 1:02:52.600 That mayor he's like, yeah, He's like, Okay, if there's 1:02:52.600 --> 1:02:55.080 a shark attack and everyone sees a ten year old 1:02:55.080 --> 1:02:57.480 tornish reds, I guess I have to be like, oh no, 1:02:58.000 --> 1:03:01.080 he I mean that scene is interesting, though, I mean 1:03:01.200 --> 1:03:06.040 that's well, actually sorry, let's let's talk about the third woman. Yes, 1:03:06.320 --> 1:03:09.560 there's there's but one woman to go another. I think 1:03:09.840 --> 1:03:13.440 terrific performance by an actor who has not given much 1:03:13.480 --> 1:03:16.960 to do but really makes a meal of what she has. 1:03:17.120 --> 1:03:22.800 I am talking about Lee Fierro playing Missus Kittner has 1:03:23.120 --> 1:03:28.160 two scenes, plays both of them incredibly. I think like 1:03:28.200 --> 1:03:31.400 the scene where she everyone's running out of the ocean 1:03:31.640 --> 1:03:36.240 and she's the last person there is heartbreaking. And then 1:03:36.280 --> 1:03:39.680 when she shows up in like with all I mean, 1:03:39.720 --> 1:03:42.920 she's with all due respects, very party city coded morning clothes. 1:03:44.280 --> 1:03:46.320 It was the seventies. Who knows. 1:03:46.640 --> 1:03:49.800 It's no I'm calling them out, it's look at her. 1:03:50.080 --> 1:03:54.360 Her outfit looks like shit, but she pulls no punches 1:03:54.600 --> 1:03:57.000 with this, you know, like with this piece of shit 1:03:57.080 --> 1:04:02.320 cop that let this happen. I love that scene. I 1:04:02.440 --> 1:04:06.160 wish that we had any more of her after that. 1:04:06.280 --> 1:04:09.600 I wish she didn't just disappear into the mist. But 1:04:09.840 --> 1:04:12.880 I really, uh yeah, I thought that that was an 1:04:12.920 --> 1:04:17.040 incredibly played scene that you know, I don't know, I 1:04:17.080 --> 1:04:18.720 just wish that there was a woman involved in the 1:04:18.760 --> 1:04:21.040 main action. It's not like the actions of women have 1:04:21.080 --> 1:04:23.880 no consequence in this world, but they don't get to 1:04:24.600 --> 1:04:28.480 They're mostly in a reactionary position. They're not very active. 1:04:29.280 --> 1:04:33.320 Yeah, right, it's more like the emotional through line of 1:04:33.600 --> 1:04:39.360 the movie versus the more active events that take place. 1:04:39.880 --> 1:04:43.400 Right. Yeah, they're the victims, are They're they're reacting to 1:04:44.480 --> 1:04:46.280 the decisions that men are making. 1:04:46.600 --> 1:04:52.280 Right. But a great performance, indeed, and then there's the men. 1:04:53.360 --> 1:05:00.120 I guess starting with Brodie. Sure, as you said already, 1:05:00.280 --> 1:05:06.640 this is copaganda this movie. The movie humanizes police, that 1:05:06.760 --> 1:05:12.520 perpetuates the idea that cops are here to keep our 1:05:12.600 --> 1:05:14.640 community safe when. 1:05:14.640 --> 1:05:18.080 Well and does challenge that, I just think, because I 1:05:18.080 --> 1:05:21.800 mean that scene with Missus Kittner does challenge that, but 1:05:22.120 --> 1:05:25.439 not in a very it's not a comprehensive like he's 1:05:25.480 --> 1:05:27.200 still the hero at the end of the day. It's like, 1:05:27.280 --> 1:05:31.720 I'm sure and like, I like this character, and that's 1:05:31.720 --> 1:05:34.360 copaganda done well, I know, which is a scary thing. 1:05:34.800 --> 1:05:37.880 But yeah, Missus Kidner, Like, I think it's so interesting 1:05:37.920 --> 1:05:42.560 the way that the city and this cops are presented 1:05:42.560 --> 1:05:46.240 in opposition to each other in the space of this movie, 1:05:46.280 --> 1:05:49.720 but in a way that feels very unrealistic. Where as 1:05:49.760 --> 1:05:53.880 we know, so, I mean, we like live in Los Angeles. 1:05:53.880 --> 1:05:56.600 There's I mean, it's all cops, but we live in 1:05:56.640 --> 1:06:00.760 a pretty egregious area for cops and the city being 1:06:01.560 --> 1:06:05.680 very much aligned more often than not when it comes 1:06:05.960 --> 1:06:09.960 to terrorizing their own people. Right, it is very much 1:06:09.960 --> 1:06:13.640 playing into this narrative of the heroic cop fighting against 1:06:14.160 --> 1:06:17.000 the evil mayre and there's no shortage of evil mayors 1:06:17.080 --> 1:06:21.840 in the world. But it's very unrealistic and very movie 1:06:21.880 --> 1:06:25.400 coded to be like the cop is trying to do 1:06:25.480 --> 1:06:28.040 their job, it's just the cities in the way. I 1:06:28.080 --> 1:06:33.439 think that that is just like so observedly, not how 1:06:33.800 --> 1:06:36.120 things are I. 1:06:36.120 --> 1:06:38.480 Mean, And that's what I mean about, like the movie 1:06:38.480 --> 1:06:41.360 perpetuating the idea that cops are here to keep our 1:06:41.400 --> 1:06:44.919 communities safe, because the reality is that cops are there 1:06:44.960 --> 1:06:47.920 to protect the property of the ruling class and to 1:06:48.000 --> 1:06:51.200 incite violence at protests and to union bust and all 1:06:51.280 --> 1:06:54.440 of those things. So this is why this is effective copaganda. 1:06:54.520 --> 1:06:58.000 But yeah, it's weird because the movie is critical of 1:06:59.040 --> 1:07:03.560 institutions such as capitalism, or it's critical of the mayor 1:07:04.200 --> 1:07:07.240 wanting to keep the beaches open so that the town 1:07:07.360 --> 1:07:10.600 can profit from the tourism, but it doesn't it doesn't 1:07:10.640 --> 1:07:14.160 apply that same criticism to police cops. 1:07:14.440 --> 1:07:18.120 Which is why I think it's so effective, honestly, is 1:07:18.120 --> 1:07:22.920 because it is not completely uncritical of the society that 1:07:22.960 --> 1:07:26.680 it's released into. It is critical of some stuff, but 1:07:26.800 --> 1:07:30.480 not all stuff, and like it almost perpetuates the idea 1:07:30.560 --> 1:07:33.840 that like the only thing preventing the cops from keeping 1:07:33.920 --> 1:07:38.840 you safe are your elected representatives, which can which is 1:07:38.880 --> 1:07:42.160 just well, actually that like you know, there's no world 1:07:42.280 --> 1:07:45.880 show me a police department where they're really trying to 1:07:45.960 --> 1:07:48.840 do the right thing. It's just that yeah, yeah, like 1:07:49.080 --> 1:07:53.040 that is observably untrue. But it's complicated because yeah, like 1:07:53.200 --> 1:07:57.880 the movie is criticizing the mayor. But it's like, I 1:07:57.920 --> 1:08:01.080 think that this is sort of a works great in 1:08:01.200 --> 1:08:04.480 terms of like it's a great movie beat, but like 1:08:04.560 --> 1:08:07.920 the mayor sort of is like capitalism the guy in 1:08:07.960 --> 1:08:11.439 a way that you know, capitalism is presented in this movie, 1:08:11.440 --> 1:08:16.519 which is fascinating. Doesn't happen in like blockbuster movies often, 1:08:17.280 --> 1:08:19.519 and it's something like Steven Spielberg is pretty willing to 1:08:19.560 --> 1:08:23.040 engage with, but it's just him. It's not presented as 1:08:23.040 --> 1:08:25.320 the very complex issue that it is, because this movie 1:08:25.320 --> 1:08:30.200 can't be too complicated and work allegedly. Yeah, I don't know. 1:08:30.360 --> 1:08:32.519 I like there is that one moment that I think 1:08:32.640 --> 1:08:40.760 is interesting in the hospital after Brody's son Michael was 1:08:40.960 --> 1:08:44.360 almost sharcked and was kind of like in shock and 1:08:44.720 --> 1:08:48.320 he's in the hospital and Brody you know again, it's 1:08:48.320 --> 1:08:50.840 like it's well, it's all of a sudden a problem 1:08:50.960 --> 1:08:53.679 now that it's on my doorstep, which is the story 1:08:54.000 --> 1:08:57.519 of time immemorial, of like, well, it's one thing if 1:08:57.560 --> 1:09:01.080 Alex Kittner dies because I don't know him, to the 1:09:01.120 --> 1:09:05.120 point where, even after Alex Kitner dies, Brody continues to 1:09:05.160 --> 1:09:08.599 cooperate with the mayor. It's only when his kid almost 1:09:08.640 --> 1:09:12.719 dies that he is like, I refuse to cooperate any further. 1:09:13.080 --> 1:09:15.160 And the only reason the mayor actually shows the beach 1:09:15.200 --> 1:09:18.760 down is because his kids were there, right, which I 1:09:18.760 --> 1:09:22.559 think is a very smart It's weird because in the 1:09:22.600 --> 1:09:25.960 movie it's presented as like I don't see it as 1:09:26.000 --> 1:09:29.679 a particularly critical moment, but it does feel very real 1:09:29.920 --> 1:09:33.519 of like that would be the only circumstances under which 1:09:34.320 --> 1:09:38.679 these characters would take the safety of everyone into account 1:09:38.840 --> 1:09:42.800 is if they're if they specifically happened to also be 1:09:42.920 --> 1:09:45.719 threatened by it, which is how I feel like most 1:09:45.760 --> 1:09:49.879 decisions that are made that are generally good for everyone 1:09:50.240 --> 1:09:53.280 tend to happen because it also threatens the ruling class 1:09:53.320 --> 1:09:56.840 and it benefits them to make that choice. Right. 1:09:57.120 --> 1:10:03.479 It feels cut from the same cloth, like whatever shitty 1:10:03.760 --> 1:10:09.080 men being like Happy International Women's Day to my wife 1:10:09.080 --> 1:10:11.439 and daughters, and that's it only. 1:10:13.960 --> 1:10:18.080 Yeah, yeah, I agree. I also think the performance from 1:10:18.360 --> 1:10:24.439 Murray Hamilton, who's in Fucking Everything, Babe. He gives a 1:10:24.640 --> 1:10:28.759 really good performance. I enjoyed it. He plays a villain 1:10:28.880 --> 1:10:31.880 very well. I also remember when he was in The Graduate. 1:10:32.360 --> 1:10:38.799 He's mister Robinson. Oh that's right, he's mister Cocked. He's cooked, 1:10:39.040 --> 1:10:41.240 he's cocked, and he's sort of cocked in this movie 1:10:41.280 --> 1:10:44.479 spiritually as well. Wow, when you think about it. 1:10:44.439 --> 1:10:46.400 I'm thinking about it, thank you. 1:10:47.160 --> 1:10:49.680 He's also in the Amityville Horror. Have you ever seen it? 1:10:50.520 --> 1:10:54.120 You know what I've seen the Ryan Reynolds one. 1:10:54.280 --> 1:10:58.120 Oh they're both bad. Yeah, they're both bad. I guess 1:10:58.120 --> 1:11:00.479 that's all we are. They're both bad, but in very 1:11:00.479 --> 1:11:03.000 different ways. Sure, but he is also at that he's 1:11:03.200 --> 1:11:05.479 very When I think of a movie that came out 1:11:05.479 --> 1:11:07.720 in the seventies, there he is. 1:11:07.880 --> 1:11:14.240 Sure. The last little piece I think of Copaganda here 1:11:15.240 --> 1:11:19.479 is the scene where Brody and Hooper are on the 1:11:19.520 --> 1:11:22.559 boat at night looking for the shark, and Brody is 1:11:23.200 --> 1:11:28.120 drunkenly after his pint of wine talking about being a cop, 1:11:28.160 --> 1:11:32.400 and he's like, oh, yeah, New York City, there's violence, 1:11:32.479 --> 1:11:36.040 there's muggings. But you know, in a town like this, 1:11:36.920 --> 1:11:39.200 one man can really make a difference. You know, in 1:11:39.200 --> 1:11:41.960 twenty five years, there's never been a murder here. And 1:11:42.000 --> 1:11:46.759 he's chalking that up to police being effective at their job, 1:11:47.600 --> 1:11:50.360 ignoring that, you know, in a place where they are, 1:11:50.640 --> 1:11:55.280 which is basically like Martha's vineyard or Nantucket or a 1:11:55.320 --> 1:12:00.080 similarly like wealthy place or you know, an island full 1:12:00.120 --> 1:12:04.679 of mostly upper middle class people that you know, there 1:12:04.720 --> 1:12:10.479 isn't crimes of desperation and stuff like that. And he's like, no, 1:12:10.560 --> 1:12:15.160 it's because of cops being competent, of course. Yeah, and 1:12:15.200 --> 1:12:16.240 we know that that's not true. 1:12:16.400 --> 1:12:18.599 Yeah. And the fact that that's what a drunk cop 1:12:18.600 --> 1:12:21.479 would say is I believe in the power of world, 1:12:21.520 --> 1:12:29.240 like right, right, sure, yeah, akeb includes Officer Brody. Yeah, 1:12:30.439 --> 1:12:32.439 and again not the worst example of it, but also 1:12:32.520 --> 1:12:34.320 a really good example of it in a way, because 1:12:34.320 --> 1:12:38.880 I still like him in spite of it all. Then 1:12:38.920 --> 1:12:45.840 we have our college boy Richard Dreyfus Hooper, the Marine Biologist. 1:12:46.479 --> 1:12:51.200 Another interesting little piece of gristle here because the movie 1:12:51.280 --> 1:12:54.599 does not with him shy away from class, it doesn't 1:12:54.640 --> 1:12:57.080 do much with it. Well, actually, maybe that's not true, 1:12:57.120 --> 1:13:02.240 Like I did appreciate that like this he both needs Hooper. 1:13:02.520 --> 1:13:06.200 It's not disparaging of his higher education, but it also 1:13:06.320 --> 1:13:10.840 acknowledges why he has it, and I appreciated that, like 1:13:10.880 --> 1:13:15.080 he basically admits he's like the rich boy. Allegations are true, 1:13:16.160 --> 1:13:18.040 I'm a rich boy. I guess in the book he 1:13:18.160 --> 1:13:22.400 is way more of an asshole about it, and he's 1:13:22.479 --> 1:13:27.320 hooking up with with Ellen, so I think he's again 1:13:27.760 --> 1:13:30.720 the book, honestly, I considered reading it, but I'm like, 1:13:30.800 --> 1:13:34.599 it sounds like a bummer. I would much rather watch 1:13:34.640 --> 1:13:37.720 the movie Jaws, unfortunately, but in this world he is, 1:13:38.080 --> 1:13:42.200 you know, highly educated, very necessary. Like I think that 1:13:42.560 --> 1:13:47.280 between Quint and Hooper there's an interesting balance struck of 1:13:47.360 --> 1:13:51.200 like they're from very different classes. They resent each other 1:13:51.280 --> 1:13:55.720 for it, which makes sense and is like something that 1:13:55.760 --> 1:13:58.800 we've all seen in either direction, but that they are 1:13:58.840 --> 1:14:03.000 also both totally valid, but they're they're also both like 1:14:03.160 --> 1:14:07.000 very needed on this mission, and they're like you could 1:14:07.080 --> 1:14:11.120 argue the person who is basically useless is Brodie totally 1:14:11.680 --> 1:14:12.040 like like. 1:14:11.960 --> 1:14:14.080 I'm scared of the water. Why am I even here? 1:14:14.439 --> 1:14:17.479 He's mister chum, Like it is kind of like why 1:14:17.520 --> 1:14:21.120 are you here, mister chump? But like that Robert Shaw 1:14:21.400 --> 1:14:25.080 is from uh, I mean, working class background. We don't 1:14:25.080 --> 1:14:26.800 really know much about him other than he was in 1:14:26.800 --> 1:14:29.439 the service, but you know, he's a veteran. It doesn't 1:14:29.439 --> 1:14:32.599 seem like he given his reaction to Hooper, I don't 1:14:32.600 --> 1:14:35.320 think that he like has a lot of higher education. 1:14:35.880 --> 1:14:38.680 But he knows how to fucking drive a boat. He 1:14:38.760 --> 1:14:40.240 knows like, he knows. 1:14:40.080 --> 1:14:44.400 The ocean, he knows fish, he knows sharks. 1:14:43.920 --> 1:14:47.160 He has the experience. Yeah, like and and he's like 1:14:47.240 --> 1:14:51.160 literally how he's introduced is as an authority, even though 1:14:51.200 --> 1:14:54.920 people are still like, oh, he's weird and like, to 1:14:54.960 --> 1:14:58.479 be honest, he is weird. They're not so wrong. It's 1:14:58.520 --> 1:15:01.160 not necessarily classes of people to say quint is weird, 1:15:01.200 --> 1:15:05.080 because also, like he's weird, and people of all classes 1:15:05.080 --> 1:15:07.879 could be weird, and there he is being weird. But anyways, 1:15:07.880 --> 1:15:11.160 but he has presented as an authority whose labor has 1:15:11.560 --> 1:15:16.320 extreme value. I mean, granted, he doesn't really get to 1:15:16.520 --> 1:15:20.920 use the money because he's eaten by a shark, but 1:15:21.120 --> 1:15:24.200 he he gets his rate. Yeah, and I hope to 1:15:24.240 --> 1:15:28.479 one day get my rate before being eaten in a 1:15:28.520 --> 1:15:33.960 sod and half yeah, so I don't know. I appreciated 1:15:34.000 --> 1:15:38.400 that with both of these characters, the movie realizes that 1:15:38.960 --> 1:15:43.840 they are both integral to this mission working like the 1:15:43.880 --> 1:15:46.200 mission does not go off the way it does without 1:15:46.200 --> 1:15:49.600 Hooper's expertise, and it certainly doesn't go off without Quint's expertise. 1:15:50.360 --> 1:15:54.840 Hooper's annoying, but I also do I like. I don't 1:15:54.880 --> 1:15:57.720 like Richard Dravis, but I do like the character, like 1:15:57.760 --> 1:16:00.439 I do think outside of what you pointed out before, 1:16:00.520 --> 1:16:04.639 where he's like suspiciously very uninterested in conservation, which feels 1:16:04.680 --> 1:16:08.360 just like a bad writing choice that feels unrealistic because 1:16:08.360 --> 1:16:11.479 it's also very incurious for someone that's like I love 1:16:11.560 --> 1:16:14.760 sharks to be like and so let's kill one, kill it, 1:16:14.800 --> 1:16:18.479 and I'll dissect it, Like wouldn't you want to observe it? 1:16:18.560 --> 1:16:19.759 Wouldn't that be useful? 1:16:20.200 --> 1:16:23.080 And he's a scientist, like, he's not a hunter, he's 1:16:23.080 --> 1:16:25.240 not a fisherman like you would think he would be. 1:16:25.479 --> 1:16:27.479 He would understand it makes sense that Quinn wants to 1:16:27.560 --> 1:16:29.560 kill the shark because that's his job. 1:16:29.640 --> 1:16:35.120 Right, But Hooper, he would know how important sharks are 1:16:35.360 --> 1:16:38.400 to the ecosystem of the ocean. And that you shouldn't 1:16:38.439 --> 1:16:41.880 just kill them, and honestly would have been a more 1:16:41.880 --> 1:16:45.800 interesting narrative choice if like Brody and quint are like, no, 1:16:46.000 --> 1:16:50.759 this shark needs to die for public safety reasons, and 1:16:51.200 --> 1:16:54.000 by contrast, Hooper was like, no, we can't just kill 1:16:54.000 --> 1:16:56.400 a shark, Like sure, we can try to catch it 1:16:56.439 --> 1:17:00.599 and contain it and transport it elsewhere or some thing. 1:17:00.600 --> 1:17:03.000 And you can argue that like, no, this shark needs 1:17:03.040 --> 1:17:07.640 to live for public safety reasons, like you know, by observing, 1:17:07.800 --> 1:17:10.880 like even if you're strictly thinking about sharks as they 1:17:10.880 --> 1:17:15.320 relate to people, it's like understanding the behavior of sharks 1:17:15.720 --> 1:17:19.840 would be far more valuable, right than just Yeah, that 1:17:20.040 --> 1:17:23.639 really feels like a writing error more than anything else, 1:17:23.680 --> 1:17:28.040 because I think, like you know, scientists were not let's say, 1:17:28.080 --> 1:17:31.760 consulted on the writing of the book specifically, and I agree, 1:17:31.800 --> 1:17:34.040 it is like a more interesting dynamic, and then it 1:17:34.080 --> 1:17:37.080 would be interesting to see what does Brodie think about 1:17:37.120 --> 1:17:40.880 that that it just like adds an element, a more 1:17:40.920 --> 1:17:45.160 complicated element to everything versus Okay, so we're all on 1:17:45.200 --> 1:17:47.559 the same page. We've got to kill this shark. It's 1:17:47.640 --> 1:17:51.040 just the how that we're struggling with like the whether 1:17:51.080 --> 1:17:53.880 to do it or not is very interesting. But it 1:17:53.880 --> 1:17:57.120 feels like maybe there's the script of the production, like 1:17:57.160 --> 1:18:01.400 they did not do research like that is what it 1:18:01.439 --> 1:18:01.880 sounds like. 1:18:02.000 --> 1:18:04.720 Could be. Could also be that there again wasn't that 1:18:04.880 --> 1:18:10.040 much shark research available at the time, but there were 1:18:10.160 --> 1:18:12.880 marine biologists, there were people who this was like, we're 1:18:12.920 --> 1:18:14.080 experts in this area. 1:18:14.240 --> 1:18:18.920 So who's the French guy in the hats? You wonder Cristo? Yeah, 1:18:19.080 --> 1:18:23.599 this is Custo era, Jacques Custo, remember him? Is kind 1:18:23.600 --> 1:18:25.439 of yeah, he's the French guy in the hat. Wait, 1:18:25.520 --> 1:18:27.519 let me check. What if I was wrong? 1:18:28.160 --> 1:18:29.840 I know the name, but I just guess I don't 1:18:29.880 --> 1:18:30.439 know what he does. 1:18:31.439 --> 1:18:34.080 He's a famous French marine biologist, like I think he 1:18:34.160 --> 1:18:38.400 had a yes, okay, yes, oh he looks like Steve 1:18:38.479 --> 1:18:41.559 Zisu and all the thing that seems that's okay, that 1:18:41.640 --> 1:18:44.640 makes sense, And actually Steve Zisu did not make that up. 1:18:44.800 --> 1:18:49.280 It was jac Cousta. Yeah. I believe he is very 1:18:49.600 --> 1:18:54.400 popular cultural figure in the seventies and may in fact 1:18:54.600 --> 1:18:57.439 have something to do with why this movie was even 1:18:57.560 --> 1:19:02.240 made because it was like it and uh, listeners, correct 1:19:02.240 --> 1:19:04.600 me if I'm wrong. If you are a knowwher of 1:19:04.720 --> 1:19:09.120 ocean facts or a Cousteau head. My vague understanding is 1:19:09.280 --> 1:19:12.160 that Jacques Custeau was a very popular figure in like 1:19:12.400 --> 1:19:14.960 the sixties, seventies and eighties and was kind of like 1:19:15.200 --> 1:19:18.760 one of the first, if not the first, like mainstream 1:19:18.960 --> 1:19:24.000 oceanography expert to become very popular. So like, I think 1:19:24.000 --> 1:19:27.280 you're right, like there is an interest in the ocean 1:19:27.960 --> 1:19:31.840 at this time, but perhaps not a lot of like 1:19:32.040 --> 1:19:34.479 commonly accepted I mean, which is wild because you think 1:19:34.479 --> 1:19:36.840 about the impact of Jaws and like there's no world 1:19:37.080 --> 1:19:40.680 where there's you know, remember the ten consecutive years we're 1:19:40.760 --> 1:19:43.960 noal which shut the fuck up about Shark Week. Oh yes, 1:19:44.000 --> 1:19:46.519 And it's just like you've got to shut the fuck 1:19:46.560 --> 1:19:51.120 up about Shark Week. There. I'm not I'm not interested, 1:19:52.080 --> 1:19:55.519 but like, I don't know, that's one of the interesting things. 1:19:55.520 --> 1:19:57.719 I mean, even with Peter Benchley, like we were talking about 1:19:57.960 --> 1:20:01.479 this movie, Like I don't think anyone's arguing that this 1:20:01.600 --> 1:20:05.320 is a correct scientific representation of a shark. It's like 1:20:05.680 --> 1:20:09.320 projecting a bunch of symbolism and moby Dick kind of shit. 1:20:09.360 --> 1:20:11.920 I mean, I have a whole section on this, Oh Okay, 1:20:11.920 --> 1:20:12.720 you'll indulge me. 1:20:13.160 --> 1:20:14.519 Let's do it. Let's do it. 1:20:14.960 --> 1:20:19.400 I guess to start though, with the and this is 1:20:19.479 --> 1:20:23.599 like pretty well known knowledge, so I'll just make this 1:20:23.640 --> 1:20:28.679 really quick and irad stuff off about the sorry well 1:20:28.720 --> 1:20:31.800 known knowledge about the like behind the scenes making of 1:20:31.840 --> 1:20:33.800 the movie. I'll start with that, and then we'll go 1:20:33.840 --> 1:20:37.320 into sort of the like public reception of the movie. 1:20:37.400 --> 1:20:41.400 So for anyone who doesn't know, this movie was a 1:20:41.520 --> 1:20:45.880 very difficult shoot. It went over budget and over schedule 1:20:46.000 --> 1:20:51.080 by like triple. The script kept being rewritten during the shoot. 1:20:51.479 --> 1:20:55.439 The ocean and the weather were very temperamental, The cast 1:20:55.479 --> 1:20:58.880 and the crew were largely miserable the whole time. The 1:20:58.880 --> 1:21:01.920 studio kept almost pull the plug on the production, and 1:21:02.040 --> 1:21:06.519 the mechanical shark famously rarely functioned, which ended up again 1:21:06.560 --> 1:21:11.200 famously working to the movie's benefit because they basically ended 1:21:11.280 --> 1:21:14.280 up having to imply the presence of the shark rather 1:21:14.320 --> 1:21:17.120 than show it on screen as much as they initially 1:21:17.479 --> 1:21:21.599 intended to amazing, which lended a sense of like, the 1:21:21.640 --> 1:21:24.680 shark is looming around, but we can't see it, and 1:21:24.760 --> 1:21:26.240 that makes it scarier. 1:21:26.920 --> 1:21:30.639 That Plus John Williams core, Yeah, great perfection. 1:21:31.240 --> 1:21:35.240 So difficult shoot, but against all odds, the movie was 1:21:35.439 --> 1:21:38.839 finished and made into a really good movie and released 1:21:38.880 --> 1:21:40.960 and it became a smash hit. It was, like you said, 1:21:41.000 --> 1:21:43.639 the first blockbuster is wild. 1:21:43.680 --> 1:21:48.719 It made half a billion dollars in nineteen seventy five. 1:21:48.840 --> 1:21:53.360 Many that's approximately three trillion dollars. So yeah, yeah, nine 1:21:53.439 --> 1:21:56.320 million dollar budget, and that was twice, Like I think 1:21:56.320 --> 1:21:58.599 it went over its budget twice, so it was technically 1:21:58.640 --> 1:22:00.880 a four point five million dollar your budget movie that 1:22:00.960 --> 1:22:04.840 went to nine million dollars and then made one trillion 1:22:05.120 --> 1:22:09.120 billion millions. Everyone saw this movie seven times, yes. 1:22:09.520 --> 1:22:11.360 And it was also one of the first movies that 1:22:11.520 --> 1:22:17.000 got a very big release everywhere simultaneously. Because prior to this, 1:22:17.120 --> 1:22:19.639 it was like, you know, a movie would open in 1:22:19.640 --> 1:22:22.360 this city over here, and then maybe a little later 1:22:22.400 --> 1:22:23.240 it would open over here. 1:22:23.320 --> 1:22:25.320 It would spread it if it did well in a 1:22:25.360 --> 1:22:28.519 certain like market. Yeah, like if you lived in the 1:22:29.320 --> 1:22:32.000 if you lived in any far flong area, it would 1:22:32.000 --> 1:22:33.880 take a long time for a movie to get to 1:22:33.880 --> 1:22:36.040 you because it would be tested in a bajillion markets 1:22:36.040 --> 1:22:38.680 before it got to you, for sure. But everyone got 1:22:38.800 --> 1:22:42.519 Jasa also like a real big especially because it's like 1:22:43.000 --> 1:22:45.240 I had to keep reminding myself. Star Wars comes out 1:22:45.400 --> 1:22:48.519 after that, and so this movie also sort of sets 1:22:48.560 --> 1:22:52.679 the precedent of like a huge marketing and merchandising push 1:22:52.720 --> 1:22:53.120 as well. 1:22:53.280 --> 1:22:56.479 Definitely, this is one of the first movies that sold 1:22:56.600 --> 1:23:00.439 a bunch of merch that people absolutely gobbled up. There's 1:23:00.520 --> 1:23:03.040 t shirts and posters and toys and games like all 1:23:03.080 --> 1:23:03.880 these tie. 1:23:03.640 --> 1:23:06.080 In shark underwear. You're like, why not. 1:23:06.080 --> 1:23:08.839 Yeah, exactly all this stuff. Yeah, And the movie's approach 1:23:08.960 --> 1:23:12.519 to marketing was fairly new for the time, where it 1:23:12.640 --> 1:23:15.760 ran a bunch of trailers as ads on TV, which 1:23:15.840 --> 1:23:20.000 was not very common at that time. That contributed to 1:23:20.800 --> 1:23:24.120 the amount of people that saw it. Yeah, it stayed 1:23:24.120 --> 1:23:27.519 in theaters for like a year in some places, Like 1:23:27.680 --> 1:23:33.360 this was the first blockbuster and like not a whole 1:23:33.640 --> 1:23:39.080 lot of movies have like rivaled its impact and popularity since. 1:23:39.960 --> 1:23:43.599 And obviously after this, Spielberg was given a blank check 1:23:43.680 --> 1:23:46.080 to do any movie he wanted for the rest of 1:23:46.120 --> 1:23:49.480 his career, and he did, and he did. He's obviously, 1:23:49.920 --> 1:23:53.240 I mean another really ice cold take here. He's made 1:23:53.320 --> 1:23:56.960 some great movies. Many of them are my favorite movies 1:23:57.000 --> 1:24:02.160 of all time, which is difficult to reconcile right now, 1:24:02.640 --> 1:24:09.000 knowing his relationship with Zionism, which we talked about to 1:24:09.080 --> 1:24:12.360 a pretty large extent on the ET episode we did 1:24:12.920 --> 1:24:13.400 last year. 1:24:13.520 --> 1:24:15.479 It's not too long ago, so as far as far 1:24:15.479 --> 1:24:18.720 as we know, I double checked going into this, as 1:24:18.760 --> 1:24:21.679 far as we're recording this right now, which is June 1:24:21.840 --> 1:24:25.479 twenty fifth, twenty twenty five, our conversation that we did 1:24:25.479 --> 1:24:27.840 in our ET episode is from what I can tell 1:24:28.080 --> 1:24:30.720 still up to date. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's like 1:24:31.400 --> 1:24:35.519 inextricable from the conversation about him and also the fact 1:24:35.560 --> 1:24:38.599 that like it's that he's one of the greatest directors 1:24:38.600 --> 1:24:40.320 of all time, and like we have to hold these 1:24:40.320 --> 1:24:44.920 two things together. Also, I mean, I don't know, no, sorry, 1:24:44.960 --> 1:24:46.000 continue to continue. 1:24:46.360 --> 1:24:48.639 Yeah, I mean the point here is that this movie 1:24:49.240 --> 1:24:52.240 was the biggest movie of all time up until that point, 1:24:52.400 --> 1:24:56.080 more or less, and well you'll never believe this, but 1:24:56.479 --> 1:25:01.360 it impacted the public perception of sharks. This movie famously 1:25:01.400 --> 1:25:05.519 made so many people afraid of sharks, afraid of going 1:25:05.680 --> 1:25:08.000 into the water at the beach, also afraid of going 1:25:08.000 --> 1:25:11.479 into lakes and swimming pools, places where sharks would never 1:25:11.520 --> 1:25:16.759 be because of how the shark is represented. In the movie, 1:25:17.160 --> 1:25:20.640 which is you'll never believe this not very accurate. And 1:25:20.680 --> 1:25:24.599 I'm not saying that sharks have not attacked and bitten 1:25:24.720 --> 1:25:29.559 and killed people throughout history. That has happened. Obviously, sharks 1:25:29.600 --> 1:25:33.679 can be dangerous, but again, the way the shark behaves 1:25:33.720 --> 1:25:39.200 in this movie is not accurate. As author Peter Benchley 1:25:39.360 --> 1:25:42.519 put it, because, as we said, he and his partner 1:25:42.560 --> 1:25:46.840 Wendy would go on to become advocates for ocean conservation 1:25:47.160 --> 1:25:50.320 and for the protection of sharks later in their lives. 1:25:51.520 --> 1:25:55.240 Peter Benchley said in two thousand and six, quote, sharks 1:25:55.280 --> 1:25:58.800 don't target human beings, and they certainly don't hold grudges. 1:25:59.280 --> 1:26:01.920 There's no such thing as a rogue man eater shark 1:26:02.000 --> 1:26:05.360 with a taste for human flesh. In fact, sharks rarely 1:26:05.439 --> 1:26:07.880 take more than one bite out of people because we're 1:26:07.880 --> 1:26:10.800 so lean and unappetizing to them. 1:26:12.160 --> 1:26:15.520 Yeah, the Benchley stuff, I think is very, very fascinating, 1:26:15.560 --> 1:26:19.000 and I appreciate, like truly as someone who could not 1:26:19.200 --> 1:26:22.640 have anticipated his work being as impactful that it was, 1:26:22.680 --> 1:26:25.760 like he was basically writing a pulp novel at the time, 1:26:27.240 --> 1:26:32.439 that he did so much to course correct that I 1:26:32.439 --> 1:26:35.360 think is very admirable, and it seems like the oceanography 1:26:35.400 --> 1:26:39.000 community agrees. And it's also one of those complicated relationships 1:26:39.520 --> 1:26:41.840 where I think it's referenced in the documentary we both 1:26:41.880 --> 1:26:46.440 watched that While yes, there's a lot of there's inaccuracies 1:26:46.479 --> 1:26:49.120 that you're taking us through about how sharks are represented, 1:26:49.280 --> 1:26:52.400 this movie also inspired a lot of future oceanographers, like 1:26:52.880 --> 1:26:55.640 it's very, very interesting. 1:26:55.880 --> 1:26:59.400 That's the benefit of the impact of this movie globally. 1:27:00.000 --> 1:27:03.000 The detriment of the global impact of this movie is 1:27:03.040 --> 1:27:09.160 that because the shark was presented in such a bloodthirsty, 1:27:09.360 --> 1:27:13.799 vengeful way that you know, great whites are just gonna 1:27:13.840 --> 1:27:16.840 go and kill a whole town of people if they 1:27:16.880 --> 1:27:22.080 aren't exploded. This led to people like shark hunting for 1:27:22.280 --> 1:27:25.640 sport and trophy and stuff like that. So this is 1:27:25.680 --> 1:27:32.160 from the Smithsonian magazine from twenty twenty two, a piece 1:27:32.360 --> 1:27:38.080 entitled Steven Spielberg regrets how Jaws impacted real world sharks. 1:27:38.960 --> 1:27:44.720 It says, quote Jaws spearheaded a collective testosterone rush in 1:27:44.760 --> 1:27:47.880 the East coast of the United States, leading thousands to 1:27:48.160 --> 1:27:53.080 hunt sharks for sport. In the years following the film's release. 1:27:53.200 --> 1:27:56.600 The number of large sharks in the waters east of 1:27:56.640 --> 1:28:01.160 North America declined by about fifty percent unquote, and then 1:28:01.200 --> 1:28:06.080 a couple other stats here, about seventy five percent of 1:28:06.320 --> 1:28:10.600 oceanic shark species are faced with the threat of extinction 1:28:11.439 --> 1:28:16.840 due to I mean to some degree. It's like fisheries overfishing. 1:28:17.560 --> 1:28:20.320 Some experts are like, well, you know, we can't give 1:28:20.320 --> 1:28:23.439 all the credit to the movie Jaws, Like it's just 1:28:23.560 --> 1:28:28.520 that fishing practices are largely not are horrific. 1:28:28.680 --> 1:28:31.599 Yeah, there is, I mean, there's yeah, it's like, yeah, 1:28:31.600 --> 1:28:34.360 it's overly simplistic to suggest it's all because of Jaws, 1:28:34.360 --> 1:28:37.479 but it's not. Not like Jaws is a contributing factor 1:28:37.880 --> 1:28:41.559 for sure. So yeah, basically, in the years that followed 1:28:41.880 --> 1:28:45.200 this movie coming out, a lot of people just started 1:28:45.360 --> 1:28:50.960 shark hunting. And it's because of the representation of sharks. 1:28:50.600 --> 1:28:52.679 In this movie. It's because not very much was known 1:28:52.720 --> 1:28:58.160 about them at the time. According to Sharksteward's dot Org, 1:28:58.560 --> 1:29:02.439 which is an organization that seeks to save endangered sharks 1:29:02.640 --> 1:29:08.160 from overfishing and the shark fin trade. According to them, 1:29:08.200 --> 1:29:12.400 over five hundred species of sharks are not dangerous to humans, 1:29:12.479 --> 1:29:16.240 and only a few species have been involved in serious 1:29:16.360 --> 1:29:20.760 or fatal attacks on humans. But this went ignored and 1:29:21.439 --> 1:29:25.479 people were just murdering millions of sharks every year right and. 1:29:25.479 --> 1:29:28.040 Left, which is horrifying. 1:29:27.640 --> 1:29:32.360 Horrifying, yes, and ignoring the fact that again, sharks play 1:29:32.479 --> 1:29:37.120 a crucial role in maintaining healthy ocean ecosystems. 1:29:37.479 --> 1:29:39.640 It's the same. I mean, it's like not the same conversation, 1:29:39.680 --> 1:29:44.160 but it's like about bees and like an animal that 1:29:44.240 --> 1:29:47.320 is critical to our ecosystem that it is just very 1:29:47.320 --> 1:29:51.719 socially acceptable to kill because they're viewed as being overly 1:29:51.760 --> 1:29:55.479 aggressive or as pests. Right, thank you for doing that research. 1:29:56.280 --> 1:30:00.280 I sure. Yeah, it's this movie is like legacy in 1:30:00.400 --> 1:30:05.240 so many different areas is gigantic. I mean even now, 1:30:05.800 --> 1:30:08.280 speaking to like the marketing side of stuff. I was 1:30:08.360 --> 1:30:11.640 at the grocery store yesterday and there's like Jaws fiftieth 1:30:11.640 --> 1:30:16.760 anniversary wine at the front of Vaughn's what And there 1:30:16.800 --> 1:30:18.920 were people at the front being like, oh my god, 1:30:19.320 --> 1:30:22.559 Jaws wine, And I'm like, it's still working. It's so 1:30:23.040 --> 1:30:26.479 like people will buy anything with this damn shark on it. 1:30:26.560 --> 1:30:30.200 Like so literally, there were two women who didn't know 1:30:30.280 --> 1:30:32.280 each other at the front of Vaughn's being like, I'm 1:30:32.280 --> 1:30:33.479 getting the Jaws. 1:30:33.680 --> 1:30:38.519 Pino Gregio like, wow, do you think that's what Brody 1:30:38.760 --> 1:30:41.839 pours into his pint glass when he drinks Josta wine? 1:30:42.080 --> 1:30:45.840 I think, I think, I ironically, I think all I think. 1:30:46.400 --> 1:30:50.720 Would Quint fuck with Jaws? Pino Gregio, I think not? No, 1:30:50.880 --> 1:30:54.639 I think not speaking of Quint. Oh yes, my good 1:30:54.720 --> 1:30:59.519 pal Quint. So with Quint. I think it's interesting to 1:30:59.760 --> 1:31:03.519 refer to what your referenced earlier in that documentary, which 1:31:03.600 --> 1:31:06.639 if you're interested in the production of Jaws, it's very marketing. 1:31:06.840 --> 1:31:10.320 It's not like revolutionary, but it is free on YouTube 1:31:10.320 --> 1:31:11.960 if you want to watch it. There's also a new 1:31:12.280 --> 1:31:16.760 fiftieth anniversary documentary coming out July tenth. It's about two 1:31:16.800 --> 1:31:19.040 weeks from now, so I will be watching it. But 1:31:19.720 --> 1:31:23.000 are there stories left untold or does everyone just look 1:31:23.280 --> 1:31:25.040 ten years older? We don't know. We'll find out. 1:31:25.200 --> 1:31:25.880 We'll find out. 1:31:26.040 --> 1:31:28.200 But in that documentary, I mean, I think it was 1:31:28.280 --> 1:31:33.600 interesting having the perspective of actual veterans whose experiences were referenced. 1:31:34.400 --> 1:31:39.000 I like, if Robert Shaw's performance was not good, I 1:31:39.080 --> 1:31:42.880 think I would find this character somewhat offensive. But like, 1:31:43.080 --> 1:31:45.200 and I do think that, you know, there are probably 1:31:45.240 --> 1:31:46.920 cases to be made, but I just think that, like 1:31:47.000 --> 1:31:52.479 he plays Quint with such bravado for sure, but like 1:31:52.800 --> 1:31:56.000 with so much humanity. It is like, for what it is, 1:31:56.280 --> 1:32:01.800 still a very thoughtful performance, and I I think it's tragic, 1:32:02.040 --> 1:32:06.200 you know how his story ends, But knowing that Hooper 1:32:06.320 --> 1:32:11.000 was originally supposed to die, I don't necessarily hate that 1:32:11.080 --> 1:32:14.200 he goes because that just feels like a pretty broad 1:32:14.360 --> 1:32:18.479 like Moby Deck style reference, right of like he will 1:32:18.600 --> 1:32:23.519 die pursuing this thing that he has projected the trauma 1:32:23.600 --> 1:32:27.360 of his entire life onto, because it's not about the money. 1:32:27.360 --> 1:32:31.679 For him, it's about and again it's like gets into 1:32:31.680 --> 1:32:36.080 this masculinity thing. It's like it's about accomplishing this thing 1:32:36.240 --> 1:32:38.080 that you can't really get your head because it's for him. 1:32:38.080 --> 1:32:41.120 It's not about the money. It's not really about protecting people, 1:32:41.400 --> 1:32:43.920 So like, what is it about? It's like this it's 1:32:44.360 --> 1:32:48.719 all inside of him, what he's It's about the sharks 1:32:48.800 --> 1:32:51.679 that ate allegedly ate six hundred of his friends. That's 1:32:51.720 --> 1:32:55.120 what it's about, right, And it's a trauma shark for him, 1:32:55.160 --> 1:32:58.880 and he's consumed by the trauma shark. I don't know. 1:32:59.040 --> 1:33:04.479 I just think story dramaturgically it makes sense. Yeah, and 1:33:04.520 --> 1:33:09.040 I think the performance is like unbelievably great. Yeah. 1:33:09.080 --> 1:33:11.640 I did not realize that he was like a Shakespearean 1:33:12.160 --> 1:33:13.920 actor from much of his career. 1:33:14.439 --> 1:33:17.280 Yeah, I mean he was like a fancy guy. Yeah. 1:33:17.320 --> 1:33:21.920 He he was like Oscar and Golden Globe nominated and 1:33:22.000 --> 1:33:28.000 like he played such a wide birth of characters. There 1:33:28.120 --> 1:33:31.679 is this I'll just glaze over it. I watched a 1:33:31.800 --> 1:33:36.439 like short doc about the uh, the rivalry between Richard 1:33:36.520 --> 1:33:39.280 Dreyfus and Robert Shaw, because there was a big onset 1:33:39.320 --> 1:33:41.840 beef between the two of them, which everyone involved in 1:33:41.880 --> 1:33:44.479 the movie is confirmed. I think it is kind of 1:33:44.520 --> 1:33:48.240 funny and sweet that Roy Scheider. They were like, oh, 1:33:48.320 --> 1:33:51.559 he was pretty chill, and he mainly went swimming and 1:33:51.600 --> 1:33:55.200 sometimes he'd go to the gym. So Roy Scheider was 1:33:55.520 --> 1:33:59.400 minding his own business. But Richard Dreyfus and Robert Shaw, 1:33:59.479 --> 1:34:01.760 I mean kind of weirdly two sides of the same coin. 1:34:01.800 --> 1:34:05.439 Where Robert Shaw was a later stage actor, he wasn't 1:34:05.479 --> 1:34:08.800 that old, but he was very like generationally, there was 1:34:08.840 --> 1:34:11.360 a big difference between the two of them. Where Robert 1:34:11.400 --> 1:34:14.400 Shaw was famously a very very hard drinker. He eventually 1:34:14.479 --> 1:34:17.960 died in his early fifties due to complications from drinking, 1:34:18.280 --> 1:34:21.800 and Richard Dreyfus was kind of like a coked out 1:34:21.880 --> 1:34:26.240 young star who had a big ego, and Robert Shaw 1:34:26.600 --> 1:34:29.160 wasn't having a bar of it. He like it seems 1:34:29.200 --> 1:34:32.800 like they, you know, in a very like competitive actory way, 1:34:33.400 --> 1:34:38.080 had issues with how the other approached acting, how the 1:34:38.120 --> 1:34:42.559 others approached substance use. Robert Shaw, would you know, say 1:34:42.600 --> 1:34:46.599 pretty It sounds like Robert Shaw was the antagonist. But 1:34:47.200 --> 1:34:49.240 again in this whole thing where it's like a masculinity 1:34:49.280 --> 1:34:52.840 story inside of a masculinity story, where you know, Richard 1:34:52.880 --> 1:34:55.880 Dreyfus seemed to dislike Robert Shaw so much that it 1:34:55.880 --> 1:34:58.040 made his performance better. Like that whole little thing where 1:34:58.040 --> 1:34:59.599 he does the little thing with his he's like, eh, 1:35:00.040 --> 1:35:03.719 making faces behind Quinn's back. Those were mainly improvised because 1:35:03.920 --> 1:35:07.519 he didn't like Robert Shaw. And like when he's mumbling about, 1:35:07.520 --> 1:35:09.120 oh well, if I had to do this anymore, I 1:35:09.120 --> 1:35:12.640 would be shell pissed. This because he didn't like Robert Shaw. 1:35:13.400 --> 1:35:15.559 So when he's being a little brat, it's because he's 1:35:15.600 --> 1:35:19.120 actually being a little brat because Daddy is not being 1:35:19.200 --> 1:35:24.599 nice to him. It's a masculinity soup, like no one 1:35:24.680 --> 1:35:28.680 is right in this situation, but it does seem like, 1:35:29.160 --> 1:35:31.559 you know, for what it's worth. And then I don't 1:35:31.640 --> 1:35:33.439 we don't need to talk about Richard Dreyfus any further. 1:35:33.479 --> 1:35:36.880 But with regards to this, as time went on, like 1:35:37.240 --> 1:35:40.599 Richard Dreyfus was like, I'm you know, it ended with 1:35:40.640 --> 1:35:44.000 like mutual respect, and he like reached out afterwards and 1:35:44.160 --> 1:35:47.200 was like I think he was kind of like what 1:35:47.280 --> 1:35:49.840 happens in Vegas days in Vegas as a way of 1:35:49.880 --> 1:35:52.040 being like, I treat you like shit on Martha's Vineyard, 1:35:52.040 --> 1:35:55.880 but we're cool, right, And I think Richard Dreyfus was like, yes, 1:35:57.880 --> 1:36:00.559 so all's well. That ends well there. Unfortunately, the Robert 1:36:00.560 --> 1:36:03.960 Shaw he passed in seventy eight. He died not too 1:36:04.000 --> 1:36:07.000 long after the making of this movie. But I just 1:36:07.520 --> 1:36:10.280 getting back to quint, I don't really know. I mean, 1:36:12.000 --> 1:36:14.960 there are so many factors that you're like that I 1:36:14.960 --> 1:36:17.520 feel like would normally paying for me that just don't. 1:36:17.920 --> 1:36:22.960 I It's it was almost one of those instances where 1:36:23.360 --> 1:36:26.800 I like forgot to do my job as one of 1:36:26.840 --> 1:36:29.040 the hosts of the Bechdel Cast, because I was just like, 1:36:29.760 --> 1:36:33.639 I was just so immersed in the story and the characters. 1:36:33.960 --> 1:36:36.720 So yeah, I don't even think I wrote anything down 1:36:36.760 --> 1:36:40.600 about Quint other than something I already mentioned, which is, 1:36:41.320 --> 1:36:47.719 you know, the class war between Quint and Hooper, and again, 1:36:48.240 --> 1:36:51.120 hooper surviving at the end was more of a like 1:36:51.760 --> 1:36:57.120 logistical production choice that they made retroactively rather than something 1:36:57.160 --> 1:36:59.479 that was written in the script, because otherwise that would 1:36:59.520 --> 1:37:03.519 have like pretty nasty implications of like, well, yeah, the 1:37:03.640 --> 1:37:09.400 rich educated scientist gets to survive and the working class 1:37:09.800 --> 1:37:15.200 fisherman has to die. But that isn't a narrative choice. 1:37:15.240 --> 1:37:19.200 It was just because everything kept going wrong with the production. 1:37:19.479 --> 1:37:21.639 Right, So it's fine. Yeah, I do think it would 1:37:21.680 --> 1:37:24.880 be more narratively satisfying if Hooper also went down, because 1:37:24.880 --> 1:37:28.559 then it's not like endorsing one philosophy over the other. 1:37:28.640 --> 1:37:31.360 But knowing that it wasn't intended that way is fine. 1:37:31.400 --> 1:37:35.639 And Quint also like makes his feelings about Hooper very 1:37:35.640 --> 1:37:37.880 clear in a way that I think as the audience 1:37:38.120 --> 1:37:41.080 we don't disagree with even if we like Hooper. Like 1:37:41.280 --> 1:37:43.360 there's that line where he's like, you wealthy college boys, 1:37:43.520 --> 1:37:47.040 can't admit when you're wrong. He does, I think, you know, 1:37:47.200 --> 1:37:51.960 in keeping with the generational stuff. There's like one the 1:37:52.000 --> 1:37:55.519 scene where like where Brodie saying goodbye to Ellen, he's 1:37:55.600 --> 1:37:58.240 kind of just like shouting random misogyst stuff in the background, 1:37:58.280 --> 1:38:02.920 and you're like, all right, okay, he's kind of just 1:38:03.080 --> 1:38:04.679 like HM, or we're. 1:38:04.520 --> 1:38:07.719 Singing about Spanish ladies or something. 1:38:07.880 --> 1:38:11.360 Let's go swimmen with bow legged women. You're like, okay, 1:38:11.920 --> 1:38:14.640 here's this swim with bow legged women. And for some 1:38:14.760 --> 1:38:17.840 reason I am not mad at him about that. You 1:38:17.880 --> 1:38:19.880 get the cage, getting the water sharks and the water like, 1:38:20.080 --> 1:38:23.360 he's just too like I would let him be misogynist 1:38:23.439 --> 1:38:28.000 to me because I like him, and after nine years 1:38:28.000 --> 1:38:29.400 should be saying that on the show. 1:38:29.720 --> 1:38:33.720 Well, I just we contain multitudes, yeah, listeners. 1:38:33.880 --> 1:38:36.680 Yeah. And the fact that like he and again I 1:38:37.000 --> 1:38:40.200 understand that it's very over the top, but that like, 1:38:40.320 --> 1:38:45.840 ultimately he is his like demise is very related to 1:38:46.040 --> 1:38:48.719 the fact that he has all of this unprocessed trauma. 1:38:49.320 --> 1:38:52.519 And that is and I don't mean to say like 1:38:52.600 --> 1:38:55.519 and that's the story of every veteran. Obviously they're not 1:38:55.560 --> 1:38:58.040 a monolithm but but that that is a very common 1:38:58.080 --> 1:39:02.559 experience for a veteran instead of seen horrific things and 1:39:03.080 --> 1:39:08.720 are not given the tools to process them. And it's like, 1:39:08.920 --> 1:39:11.519 especially the further back you go in history, it's thought 1:39:11.600 --> 1:39:16.960 to be unmasculine and unacceptable to have those traumas manifest 1:39:17.040 --> 1:39:19.559 in your life. And so what we see with Quint, 1:39:19.800 --> 1:39:23.720 however cartoonish it can be, is you know, he's not 1:39:23.960 --> 1:39:28.200 able to get past this, which totally makes sense, but 1:39:28.280 --> 1:39:31.400 it's like not socially acceptable for him too. I mean 1:39:31.439 --> 1:39:33.080 he has to be drunk and in the middle of 1:39:33.080 --> 1:39:36.280 the ocean to even talk about it, and that's really sad. 1:39:36.160 --> 1:39:42.000 Right, Yeah. I honestly found it surprising that the Brodie 1:39:42.080 --> 1:39:47.400 character was imbued with a fear of the water and 1:39:47.439 --> 1:39:50.600 a fear of drowning and all that stuff, because I 1:39:50.600 --> 1:39:52.600 think that was added for the movie. It was not 1:39:52.760 --> 1:39:55.880 in the book. Okay, I mean it makes for good 1:39:55.920 --> 1:39:59.479 characterization in the sense that you know, someone who has 1:39:59.520 --> 1:40:02.080 to go out onto the water to complete a task 1:40:02.479 --> 1:40:06.599 is afraid of the water. That's just like no good storytelling. Yeah, 1:40:06.600 --> 1:40:13.000 but for a man to have a phobia, that's not masculine. 1:40:13.240 --> 1:40:17.400 So for a movie from the seventies, to imbue a 1:40:17.479 --> 1:40:20.599 character who's a man with a fear that he has 1:40:20.640 --> 1:40:24.240 to face. And granted, this fear does not really manifest 1:40:24.240 --> 1:40:27.439 in any significant way because it's sort of it goes 1:40:27.439 --> 1:40:30.240 away mostly and he's just like, I'm on the boat 1:40:30.280 --> 1:40:33.760 now and I'm actually okay. So it doesn't have a 1:40:33.800 --> 1:40:37.080 huge impact on the story. But I found it kind 1:40:37.120 --> 1:40:41.400 of interesting. I guess that a man was allowed to 1:40:41.439 --> 1:40:44.680 be afraid of something and then he communicated that to 1:40:44.800 --> 1:40:48.400 the people around him. Yeah, I agree again, low bar, 1:40:48.560 --> 1:40:53.920 but I thought that was interesting. I don't think I 1:40:54.080 --> 1:40:59.479 have really much else to say. Oh, this movie was 1:40:59.640 --> 1:41:04.680 edited by a woman, Yes, Verna Fields, who is I believe. 1:41:04.560 --> 1:41:10.320 Every Pete Spielberg collaborator. Am I wrong? I don't. Oh, 1:41:10.439 --> 1:41:13.920 she worked with Peter Bogdanovich a fair amount. Yeah, George Lucas, 1:41:13.920 --> 1:41:16.800 Steven Spielberg earlier. And so she did What's Up, Doc, 1:41:16.840 --> 1:41:21.800 which is Bogdanovich, American Graffiti, Jaws. 1:41:21.640 --> 1:41:24.080 Paper Moon, handful of others. 1:41:24.439 --> 1:41:27.120 I mean, that's pretty great. Oh, and then I was like, 1:41:27.120 --> 1:41:29.479 why does I was like, did they just drop her? No? 1:41:30.000 --> 1:41:33.920 She was hired by Universal as an executive consultant. So 1:41:34.439 --> 1:41:36.280 we love to see that. We love to see that 1:41:36.360 --> 1:41:39.320 she did great work and then got promoted. That never 1:41:39.360 --> 1:41:43.280 happens to women. Right in the seventies, unheard of shout 1:41:43.320 --> 1:41:47.320 out to Verna Fields, which also, I mean, I don't know, 1:41:47.360 --> 1:41:51.320 I really appreciated again in a movie, In a movie 1:41:51.360 --> 1:41:54.439 that takes place quite a bit on the beach, I 1:41:54.560 --> 1:41:56.960 feel like there I'm not really getting a lot of 1:41:57.000 --> 1:41:59.160 male gaze out of it outside of that opening sequence, 1:41:59.200 --> 1:42:01.920 which obviously it's the creature from the Black Lagoon shot, 1:42:01.960 --> 1:42:05.760 you can't get around it. But in the other beach sequences, 1:42:06.120 --> 1:42:10.800 I feel like in subsequent beach horror there is almost 1:42:10.920 --> 1:42:14.920 always some male gazy shots of like, oh no, what 1:42:15.000 --> 1:42:19.400 if this hottie got eaten? Uh? But for the most part, 1:42:19.439 --> 1:42:22.280 it is just like people on the beach. Yes, and 1:42:22.439 --> 1:42:24.640 it presented very matter of factly in a way that 1:42:24.640 --> 1:42:27.040 it just feels like unusual. I don't know. 1:42:27.640 --> 1:42:31.759 That reminds me of a documentary I watched to prepare 1:42:32.000 --> 1:42:38.680 for this episode. It's a Shutter original documentary called Shark's Ploitation. 1:42:39.280 --> 1:42:39.519 Nice. 1:42:39.560 --> 1:42:44.479 I really enjoyed it, and it's basically about all the 1:42:44.760 --> 1:42:51.559 movies that fall under the shark'sploitation subgenre and if you're thinking, oh, yeah, 1:42:51.600 --> 1:42:56.000 of course, like Jaws, and you know, Sharknado and the 1:42:56.120 --> 1:43:00.559 Meg and a handful of others. There are hundreds and 1:43:00.760 --> 1:43:06.800 hundreds of mostly B movies, mostly horrible bad movies. But 1:43:07.439 --> 1:43:14.000 basically Jaws started this subgenre. Not to say that Hollywood 1:43:14.040 --> 1:43:20.200 had not been making like horror creature feature movies about 1:43:20.240 --> 1:43:25.479 monsters lurking in the sea or lurking in lagoons before this, 1:43:25.880 --> 1:43:29.600 because they had been making movies like this for decades 1:43:29.720 --> 1:43:32.519 prior to Jaws. But again, none of them had the 1:43:32.520 --> 1:43:34.599 cultural impact that Jaws had. 1:43:34.960 --> 1:43:37.280 So wild, it's like, but none of them were good 1:43:37.479 --> 1:43:40.479 like this, like right, why, Yeah, none of them were 1:43:40.520 --> 1:43:41.880 good for sure. 1:43:42.360 --> 1:43:48.240 And so Yeah, just examines this subgenre and talks about 1:43:48.280 --> 1:43:51.200 the tropes that start to emerge in these shark movies, 1:43:51.400 --> 1:43:56.440 one of them being the exploitation of especially women's bodies. 1:43:57.000 --> 1:44:02.080 Some of these movies have rather gratuitous, neuted revel in 1:44:02.280 --> 1:44:05.720 violence against women, stuff like that. But overall, yeah, I 1:44:05.720 --> 1:44:10.040 thought it was a very interesting documentary that I would recommend. 1:44:10.520 --> 1:44:12.840 Oh yeah, that's pretty much all I had. 1:44:13.600 --> 1:44:15.240 Yeah, the last thing I want to say, it's more 1:44:15.280 --> 1:44:18.240 of a fun fact, but I just thought it was interesting, 1:44:18.320 --> 1:44:22.000 just in terms of how much this movie changed marketing 1:44:22.160 --> 1:44:26.599 and how marketing narratives work for art in general, which 1:44:26.640 --> 1:44:29.960 is like Steven Spielberg's career alone is like a fascinating 1:44:29.960 --> 1:44:33.040 look at that. But this book. I don't know how 1:44:33.040 --> 1:44:35.400 this book came across Steven Spielberg's desk. I think it 1:44:35.720 --> 1:44:39.880 was mentioned at some point, but I forget in one 1:44:39.920 --> 1:44:43.160 of the documentaries I watched, but that Jaws was like, Oh, 1:44:43.320 --> 1:44:46.760 it's this best selling book. Everyone loves it. Well, guess what, 1:44:46.960 --> 1:44:49.000 you know why I was a best selling book because 1:44:49.000 --> 1:44:52.599 Steven Spielberg and Universal bought hundreds and hundreds of copies 1:44:52.640 --> 1:44:56.160 of it to send other places to people to be like, hey, 1:44:56.160 --> 1:44:57.560 what do we think of this book? Because they just 1:44:57.600 --> 1:45:00.599 wanted to make a movie of it. I just I've that. 1:45:00.680 --> 1:45:03.800 I feel like it's a victimist crime. We love to 1:45:03.880 --> 1:45:09.040 see a book selling copies. Me personally, someone should do 1:45:09.080 --> 1:45:11.880 that to my Oh my god, I was so scandalized. 1:45:11.960 --> 1:45:15.320 If what should people buy Raw Dog? 1:45:15.560 --> 1:45:17.719 Oh, they should buy hundreds of copies and just send 1:45:17.720 --> 1:45:19.160 and be like should we make a movie about this? 1:45:19.320 --> 1:45:22.479 I would be like, that's so controversial. You shouldn't do 1:45:22.520 --> 1:45:25.280 that that's dishonest, but that I just thought that was 1:45:25.320 --> 1:45:28.240 like funny that they, you know, part of the whole 1:45:28.240 --> 1:45:30.880 idea of like this best selling book, everyone's talking about it. 1:45:31.080 --> 1:45:33.640 That may not necessarily have been true. It sold a 1:45:33.640 --> 1:45:36.559 lot of copies, but who was really talking about it. 1:45:37.920 --> 1:45:46.280 I just think that's funny. Does it pass the buckle test? No? 1:45:45.640 --> 1:45:49.840 No, But on our nipple scale, yeah, where we rate 1:45:49.920 --> 1:45:52.519 the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it 1:45:52.560 --> 1:45:57.919 through an intersectional feminist lens. I mean again, women largely 1:45:58.240 --> 1:46:02.200 are not included in the movie. Yeah, it is a 1:46:02.280 --> 1:46:05.400 very white movie. It's a movie that asks us to 1:46:05.479 --> 1:46:10.080 root for a cop, so, you know, I just don't know. 1:46:10.200 --> 1:46:12.439 But the movie does have some interesting things to say 1:46:13.760 --> 1:46:15.680 about masculinity. 1:46:16.360 --> 1:46:18.480 Question mark, I'm gonna give it two nipples. 1:46:18.680 --> 1:46:20.200 Okay, that sounds great. 1:46:20.280 --> 1:46:23.760 Because for well, I agree with everything you're saying, and 1:46:24.000 --> 1:46:26.559 they're therefore could not in good conscience rank it higher. 1:46:26.560 --> 1:46:28.080 And maybe I'm ranking it a little higher than I 1:46:28.120 --> 1:46:30.439 normally would because it's just such a damn good movie. 1:46:30.560 --> 1:46:36.679 I do think that we have two strong performances from 1:46:36.880 --> 1:46:38.200 women in this movie. 1:46:39.360 --> 1:46:40.040 They're fleeting. 1:46:40.360 --> 1:46:43.160 The fleeting. What you do see is good, but their 1:46:43.200 --> 1:46:46.519 their performances are great. I really like Ellen. I wish 1:46:46.600 --> 1:46:49.799 that we had more of her, but I like seeing 1:46:50.360 --> 1:46:53.760 a just like a full Even though you don't get 1:46:53.760 --> 1:46:55.160 to spend much time with her, you feel like you 1:46:55.200 --> 1:46:58.200 know her, which I think is very rare in terms 1:46:58.240 --> 1:47:01.040 of like quote unquote Mom or what characters they're written 1:47:01.080 --> 1:47:03.320 in this very one dimensional way, and this character is 1:47:03.400 --> 1:47:05.760 kind of written in a one dimensional way. But I 1:47:05.800 --> 1:47:08.519 think like her ability as an actor. Even though it 1:47:08.520 --> 1:47:10.400 was suggested that it was a NEPO pick because she 1:47:10.479 --> 1:47:14.160 was married to a producer, Fuck you, Lorrangengery is amazing 1:47:14.160 --> 1:47:17.519 in this movie, and so if it is NEPO, I 1:47:17.520 --> 1:47:22.200 don't care. And then Lefierra's performance another fleeting but really 1:47:22.240 --> 1:47:29.000 impactful performance. She is a legendary stage actor and teacher 1:47:29.760 --> 1:47:32.360 who just passed away a couple of years ago at 1:47:32.400 --> 1:47:37.160 the age of ninety one. And also shout out to Chrissy, 1:47:37.240 --> 1:47:41.800 who is definitely underappreciated by the film. But again, a 1:47:41.840 --> 1:47:46.120 great performance from a stunt actor, and stunt actors are 1:47:46.200 --> 1:47:51.439 so rarely treated with the respect that they deserve, and. 1:47:51.520 --> 1:47:54.400 We were just talking about that on the Blue Crush episode. 1:47:54.560 --> 1:47:57.120 Another movie that takes place at the beach. 1:47:57.280 --> 1:48:00.400 In the beach, yeah, so I shout out to Susan 1:48:00.439 --> 1:48:04.160 backline who also passed away somewhat recently. The women we 1:48:04.240 --> 1:48:08.040 do meet, I really appreciate their at least their performances, 1:48:08.040 --> 1:48:11.160 if not the writing itself. And I think mainly these 1:48:11.200 --> 1:48:15.200 two nipples are going towards this movie's ability to explore 1:48:15.720 --> 1:48:22.080 masculinity and dick measuring contests across the class spectrum. It 1:48:22.160 --> 1:48:25.160 is a very white movie, it is, I mean, as 1:48:25.240 --> 1:48:28.840 you said, but I do think it's interesting having these 1:48:28.920 --> 1:48:33.360 three very different class perspectives, and again, the copaganda of 1:48:33.400 --> 1:48:36.639 it all, you can't excuse it. But ultimately you do 1:48:36.720 --> 1:48:40.320 have like someone from the lower class, middle class, and 1:48:40.400 --> 1:48:44.040 upper class on this boat and they're all working towards 1:48:44.120 --> 1:48:47.160 the same goal and they have to communicate with each 1:48:47.240 --> 1:48:49.960 other and it doesn't really work, and it's just it 1:48:50.040 --> 1:48:53.800 feels like kind of a reality show nightmare experiment, like 1:48:53.840 --> 1:48:58.240 these three men for world We're I think it's fascinating 1:48:58.200 --> 1:49:00.519 and I think it's like all of the care characters 1:49:00.640 --> 1:49:06.080 are treated with respect by the writing in the plot, 1:49:06.439 --> 1:49:11.320 and I like it too. Nipples and I'm gonna give 1:49:11.479 --> 1:49:16.400 them to I guess I'm going to give one to 1:49:16.720 --> 1:49:19.719 Lorraine Gary, and I'm gonna give one to Lee Fierro 1:49:19.920 --> 1:49:22.519 because they made a meal of what they were given. 1:49:23.680 --> 1:49:26.880 I agree. I think I'll go down to one and 1:49:26.920 --> 1:49:30.400 a half. If I'm reading it on a scale of 1:49:31.200 --> 1:49:35.880 is this movie really good, it gets top marks rating 1:49:35.880 --> 1:49:38.599 it on the nipple scale. The copaganda thing is what's 1:49:38.600 --> 1:49:45.000 getting me because like these like gentle tender, like loving 1:49:45.479 --> 1:49:50.720 father character, sure who we're supposed to be rooting for 1:49:50.760 --> 1:49:54.000 her the whole time, is a cop and it is 1:49:54.200 --> 1:50:01.640 effective copaganda, and that's the sneakiest Yeah, so I resent that. 1:50:03.080 --> 1:50:06.799 But as we keep saying, I like the Brodie character 1:50:07.640 --> 1:50:10.400 and that's why it's so effective. So I just feel 1:50:10.439 --> 1:50:14.040 tricked by the movie. And yeah, it's a really good 1:50:14.080 --> 1:50:17.960 movie and I'm gonna watch it every summer. Yeah, so 1:50:18.000 --> 1:50:21.080 one and a half nipples and I'll give them to 1:50:21.479 --> 1:50:24.360 Bruce the Shark the mechanical. 1:50:25.479 --> 1:50:29.240 Also fun that they ended up naming the Finding Nemo 1:50:29.360 --> 1:50:35.480 Shark after this shark. Cute shark fans will know anyways. 1:50:36.280 --> 1:50:40.599 So that's our Jaws episode, folks. I really love watching 1:50:40.600 --> 1:50:43.519 this movie. Yeah, I'm a I'm a simple person. I 1:50:43.520 --> 1:50:46.080 see Jaws, I say, hey, I like that movie. 1:50:46.120 --> 1:50:46.679 I'm smiling. 1:50:47.160 --> 1:50:49.920 So here's here's to you, listener. We're pouring out a 1:50:49.920 --> 1:50:56.599 class of Jaws Pedo Grisio to you and and with that, 1:50:56.640 --> 1:50:59.400 thank you for thank you for listening. This is pretty 1:50:59.400 --> 1:51:02.800 similar if you're not a member of our Matreon, our 1:51:02.840 --> 1:51:06.519 patriot aka Matreon. These are episodes that are mainly just 1:51:06.560 --> 1:51:09.880 Caitlin and myself having fun talking about a movie that 1:51:09.920 --> 1:51:13.560 you very often will request. So if you enjoyed the 1:51:14.320 --> 1:51:17.120 vibe of this, a little bit Looser, a little silly 1:51:17.920 --> 1:51:20.519 joyin our Matreon, it's five dollars a month, and it 1:51:20.560 --> 1:51:23.920 gets you access to two new episodes every month on 1:51:24.000 --> 1:51:26.400 a theme that you will generally choose and sometimes we 1:51:26.439 --> 1:51:28.479 will impose our will and we will choose it. And 1:51:28.560 --> 1:51:33.840 Casper is going wild right now, being so cute. He's 1:51:33.920 --> 1:51:36.800 being a real cudler. He's saying hi, mother, and he's 1:51:36.840 --> 1:51:40.679 saying Hi Casper. But yeah, and then access to almost 1:51:40.680 --> 1:51:42.400 two hundred back episodes. 1:51:43.040 --> 1:51:45.839 It sounds like you're saying, we're gonna need a bigger 1:51:46.200 --> 1:51:47.400 Matreon subscription. 1:51:47.760 --> 1:51:52.240 We're gonna need a bigger Matreon subscription. Just kidding. It'll 1:51:52.240 --> 1:51:54.360 always be five dollars, but we could just use more 1:51:54.400 --> 1:51:55.320 people having it. 1:51:55.400 --> 1:51:56.160 Well, that's what I mean. 1:51:56.280 --> 1:51:57.400 Yeah, yeah. 1:51:57.680 --> 1:52:01.360 Oh, and also, we haven't actually announced at the time 1:52:01.360 --> 1:52:03.680 of this recording, but maybe if you like checked our 1:52:04.000 --> 1:52:07.040 link tree, we're going on tour. We're going on tour 1:52:07.439 --> 1:52:11.439 and we're going to the Midwest, and you'll see a 1:52:11.439 --> 1:52:15.240 few links already to some shows that we're doing at 1:52:15.280 --> 1:52:19.160 the end of August slash early September. Be on the 1:52:19.160 --> 1:52:24.959 lookout for a more official announcement and more news about 1:52:25.280 --> 1:52:28.519 that tour. But just give me a little a little 1:52:29.160 --> 1:52:32.520 shark finn if you will, a little to tease. 1:52:33.200 --> 1:52:37.080 Us heading to Chicago. We love you so much, Thank 1:52:37.120 --> 1:52:39.240 you for listening, and we will be back next week 1:52:39.280 --> 1:52:42.080 with another brand new episode. Bye bye. 1:52:45.760 --> 1:52:49.040 The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by 1:52:49.120 --> 1:52:53.000 Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited 1:52:53.080 --> 1:52:56.280 by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike 1:52:56.400 --> 1:53:00.360 Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our low go and 1:53:00.479 --> 1:53:03.800 merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special thanks 1:53:03.800 --> 1:53:07.960 to Aristotle Assevedo. For more information about the podcast, please 1:53:08.080 --> 1:53:09.880 visit Linktree slash bechtelcast