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Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women

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Speaker 1: in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy Zephim Beast start

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Speaker 1: changing with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Auga Alert, Alert, We're going on tour.

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Speaker 3: We're going on tour, and I know what you're all thinking.

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Speaker 3: What are you going to the same four cities again?

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Speaker 3: Normally the answer be yes. This time no, we are

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Speaker 3: for the first time touring in the Midwest. You heard,

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Speaker 3: we responded nine years later, we are touring the Midwest.

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Speaker 3: We are very, very excited, and so we wanted to

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Speaker 3: let you know as soon as possible so you can

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Speaker 3: grab your tickets. It's our end of summer tour. Caitlin,

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Speaker 3: where are we going?

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Speaker 2: I will tell you. We're kicking off the tour in

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Speaker 2: Indianapolis on August thirtieth. That is a Saturday matinee show

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Speaker 2: with Let's Fest. So check out our show for sure,

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Speaker 2: and check out other programming at the festival.

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Speaker 3: I've got a solo show that night. You should come.

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Speaker 2: You should definitely come to that to come to both

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Speaker 2: of them. So, yeah, that's Indianapolis August thirtieth, then the

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Speaker 2: following night, on August thirty first, we will be in Chicago,

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Speaker 2: so come on out to that show.

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Speaker 3: We'll be at the Den Theater that night. It's a beautiful,

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Speaker 3: beautiful theater. We're very, very excited, and tickets particularly we'll

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Speaker 3: be going quick there, so if you're in Chicago, get

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Speaker 3: your tickets now.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, a few days later we'll be over in Wisconsin.

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Speaker 2: That's right, We're coming to Madison on September fourth. We

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Speaker 2: will be at the Burr Oak and then finally we

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Speaker 2: will be in Minneapolis on September seventh at Dudley Riggs Theater.

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Speaker 3: It will be a thrilling week in the Midwest. We

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Speaker 3: are very excited to come and see you. Come hang.

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Speaker 3: As always, we do like audience involvement stuff. We do

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Speaker 3: meet and greets after we sell exclusive merch it's a blast,

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Speaker 3: so come be weird and parasocial with us. We will

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Speaker 3: be announcing movie pics a little bit closer to the shows,

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Speaker 3: but we can promise you're gonna have an amazing time.

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Speaker 3: Bechdel Cash shows are rowdy and weird and a lot

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Speaker 3: of people have met their significant others there, so are

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Speaker 3: we promising love.

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Speaker 2: Yes, significant others, friends or just fuck buddies. Yeah, just

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Speaker 2: go in and find someone to fuck if you want.

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Speaker 3: They're just if you're a horny, well no, actually, if

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Speaker 3: you're a horney, figure it out. But you can come

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Speaker 3: to the show. You're wal, you can see people welcome.

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Speaker 3: Don't be weird about it. Just don't be weird about it,

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Speaker 3: honor system.

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Speaker 2: Yes indeed. Yeah, and the tickets for all of these

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Speaker 2: shows can be found on our link tree link tree

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Speaker 2: slash bechdel Ca, So grab them while you still can.

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Speaker 2: We're expecting these shows to sell out, so don't wait.

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Speaker 2: As as mister Andrews says to Rose at the after

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Speaker 2: the Titanic has hit the iceberg, don't wait. Get your

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Speaker 2: tickets now and we will see you there. Should I

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Speaker 2: be invoking Titanic a national tragedy?

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Speaker 3: I think that it's you.

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Speaker 2: You crested thee hundred year roll. It's fine, thank you

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Speaker 2: so much. In any case, grab your tickets. We're so

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Speaker 2: excited to come see you.

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Speaker 4: See you there and now done done Fuck America by

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Speaker 4: byecast Jamie.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna need a bigger pod podcast.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, we've been trying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, tell your friends not for lack of.

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Speaker 3: Effort that we don't have a bigger podcast. Tell your friends,

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Speaker 3: Tell your friends. We didn't pivot the video. I guess, hey,

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, look, we're we've got we've got a

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Speaker 3: we've got a quin style podcast. So true, chugging along,

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Speaker 3: full of trauma, old fashioned, no video doomed. Who could say,

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Speaker 3: let's hope not, Let's hope not.

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Speaker 2: What if at the end of this episode we get die?

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Speaker 3: Honestly, it would be a blessing. It would be a

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Speaker 3: blassing bringing on. Hi everyone, Welcome to the Jaws episode

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Speaker 3: of the Vachdel Cast. My name's Jamie Loftus.

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Speaker 2: My name is Caitlin Droonte. This is our show where

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Speaker 2: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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Speaker 2: Bechdel test. Simply as a jumping off point.

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Speaker 3: Is Jaws of what pronounces Jaws use?

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Speaker 2: Well, the characters refer to Jaws as he him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but like, I mean, I guess that they are

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Speaker 3: shark experts, so I'm assuming they know that, But it

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Speaker 3: just feels like it's a given, like.

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Speaker 2: They don't question it at all, Like before they.

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Speaker 3: Could possibly know they you're using him. I just needed,

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Speaker 3: like definitely not to be like obsessed with the like

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Speaker 3: gender of the shark. It just felt like the he

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Speaker 3: him was a was a foregone conclusion, versus.

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Speaker 2: Like, I mean this is true. I think they just

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Speaker 2: see a forebiding aggressive thing and they're like, well, that

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Speaker 2: must be a male shark. I mean, animals don't have gender.

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Speaker 2: Gender is a very human construct, so right, but it

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Speaker 2: very well could have been a female shark.

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Speaker 3: Well, because Spielberg later on, I mean famously the dinosaurs

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Speaker 3: in Jurassic.

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Speaker 2: Parks, so you know, all female growth growth exactly over

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Speaker 2: time anyway, So yes, we use the Bechdel test as

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Speaker 2: a jumping off point. That, of course, is a media

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Speaker 2: metric created by our very best friend in the whole

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Speaker 2: wide world, Alison Bechdel, first appearing in her comic Dikes

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Speaker 2: to Watch Out For in nineteen eighty five. Often called

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Speaker 2: the Bechdel Wallace Test, there are many versions of it.

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Speaker 2: The one that we use requires this, do two characters

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Speaker 2: of a marginalized gender have names? And do they speak

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Speaker 2: to each other about something other than a man? And also,

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Speaker 2: we like it when it's narratively impactful dialogue and not

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Speaker 2: just throw away nonsense.

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Speaker 3: We like it. We love it. Yes, and today we

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Speaker 3: are taking that interactional feminist frame and applying it to

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Speaker 3: one Jaws nineteen seventy five, directed by Steven Spielberg, which

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Speaker 3: feels especially worthy of mention this year because it's celebrating

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Speaker 3: its fiftieth anniversary. Yeah. I was really hoping to watch

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Speaker 3: the new documentary about Jaws, but it unfortunately does not

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Speaker 3: come out until after this episode airs tragically rude. But

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Speaker 3: there is plenty, plenty, plenty to be said about the

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Speaker 3: movie Jaws. There's been a lot of inks billed, and

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Speaker 3: here is a little bit more MP three about it.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, here's our contribution to that. Jamie, what's your relationship

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Speaker 2: with the movie Jaws?

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Speaker 3: I was a late bloomer to Jaws. I didn't grow

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Speaker 3: up with Jaws, even though I grew up, like you know,

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Speaker 3: I grew up in Massachusetts, where Jaws famously takes place. Yea,

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Speaker 3: my mom not when I was growing up, but my

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Speaker 3: mom when I was in high school and my parents

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Speaker 3: got the Vorst. She moved to a community not unlike

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Speaker 3: the community in Jaws. A community. She lives in Marshville, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 3: which is a community that has a wide class gap.

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Speaker 3: There's the rich folks in the hills and kind of

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Speaker 3: the more working class, middle class folks in the city below.

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Speaker 3: It is a town that very much relies on and

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Speaker 3: has a very complicated relationship with the tourist economy. And

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Speaker 3: so while there's a lot of cartoonish elements of Jaws,

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Speaker 3: I actually did feel somewhat at home when I finally

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Speaker 3: saw it. I didn't see it until a couple of

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Speaker 3: years ago. It was re released in Imax, I want

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Speaker 3: to say, three years ago, and that was my first

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Speaker 3: time seeing it, and I have watched it every summer since.

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Speaker 3: So I think this was my fourth viewing of Jaws.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, it's a classic for a reason. Baby.

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Speaker 3: Is it copaganda? Yes, but but it's is it a

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Speaker 3: movie ever? Like kind of it is? It's like it is.

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Speaker 3: It's really nice seeing like a movie that, like I

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Speaker 3: wasn't avoiding it, I just like never saw it, and

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Speaker 3: then when you finally see it, you're like, oh, it's

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Speaker 3: it's as good as everybody says. It's an incredible movie.

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Speaker 2: It's so good.

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Speaker 3: It's so good, and much of the lore behind it

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Speaker 3: is really fascinating because it's got that like this movie

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Speaker 3: shouldn't have worked and then it did, which is always

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Speaker 3: a fun thing, and it's yeah, Spielberg's like first theatrical

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Speaker 3: release because he made that TV movie that was unlike

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Speaker 3: Jaws if Jaws was a truck. Yeah, so that was

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Speaker 3: this little warm up. He's like, okay, Jo, well what

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Speaker 3: if Jaws was a fish and what if the truck

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Speaker 3: was a shark? Yeah, but if the truck was a shark?

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Speaker 3: And he slaid that and he was like twenty eight,

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Speaker 3: which is upsetting but also incredible, and I, yeah, this movie. Look,

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Speaker 3: could we make a better movie than this?

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Speaker 2: Me? No?

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Speaker 3: I like, no, we couldn't. And there's many movies we've

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Speaker 3: covered in the show that we could make up definitely,

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Speaker 3: but this is this is one of the greatest movies

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Speaker 3: probably ever, one of like what a what like invented

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Speaker 3: the blockbuster essentially. I didn't even ever think hard about

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Speaker 3: the term blockbuster, but then you're like, you think about it.

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Speaker 3: People lined up around.

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Speaker 2: The block, Oh and they and they busted.

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Speaker 3: They busted while they were waiting. And if the movie

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Speaker 3: is so good, everyone busted and it came. That's why

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Speaker 3: you wait around the block and then you bust when

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Speaker 3: you get in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like edge you're waiting you're waiting, you're waiting.

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Speaker 3: And you get so scared you come and yeah, this

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Speaker 3: would be rocks. It fucking rocks, Roles and rules. It

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Speaker 3: still feels very timely no matter when you see it.

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Speaker 3: I love this movie. I particularly love the Robert Show performance.

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Speaker 3: I think it's my favorite.

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Speaker 2: Had no idea who was British.

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Speaker 3: Oh oh by. And also I didn't know that he

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Speaker 3: was a Pulitzer Prize finalist author like he was. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: He was also a very successful writer, and I think

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Speaker 3: was you know, many such cases. He was always a

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Speaker 3: bit pissed that he was more famous as an actor

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Speaker 3: than as a writer, but he was a very I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't say he was an underrated writer. He was rated.

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Speaker 3: He almost won a Pulitzer.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Anyways, I think that his performance as quint is like

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Speaker 3: one of my favorite performances ev which is the coldest

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Speaker 3: take humanly possible. And I don't like Richard Drivis famously.

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Speaker 3: I think he's annoying, and it's really it's horrible when

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Speaker 3: someone's a horrible person, but it's interesting when someone's a

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Speaker 3: horrible person, and it just validates the fact that you

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Speaker 3: never enjoyed watching them perform and That's how I feel

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Speaker 3: about Richard Drives. He sucks and I don't like watching him.

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Speaker 3: And it used to just be like, am I being

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Speaker 3: a bitch, And then I found out he was a

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Speaker 3: horrible person. So now I'm like, well, I can freely

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Speaker 3: air I don't like Richard Drivis. I think he's obnoxious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't know until you sent me that link.

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Speaker 2: But he's a piece of shit.

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Speaker 3: It's Jaws related too. The reason that like, I mean,

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Speaker 3: he's he's been. He's been a piece of shit quietly

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Speaker 3: for years. But his most recent outing of being a

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Speaker 3: piece of shit was he had like an outburst against

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Speaker 3: essentially any diversity or DEI in film at a Jaws

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Speaker 3: screening in Massachusetts several years ago. Go and because Massachusetts

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Speaker 3: is the greatest, he was booed in the theater and

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Speaker 3: it made the news rounds. But I mean, it's, you know,

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Speaker 3: an old white man, old white manning But it just

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Speaker 3: was like, I would not recommend watching the clip. It's

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Speaker 3: rather disgusting. And he's possibly a Republican, we just don't know,

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Speaker 3: but we know that he it's it's one of the

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Speaker 3: more comprehensive, hateful speeches I've ever heard yeah.

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Speaker 2: He was disparaging of women of the meet too, and.

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Speaker 3: It was literally like, if you are not a cis

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Speaker 3: white man, I don't respect you.

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Speaker 2: Make him vomit as he says.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he says yeah, so early in the show to

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Speaker 3: get into that. But and I you know, not that

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Speaker 3: I'm like, and I'm sure Robert Shaw was a woke king,

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Speaker 3: like who fucking knows.

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Speaker 2: He did identify as a socialist, so maybe he did more.

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Speaker 3: So I mean, look, yeah, not necessary. I mean to

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Speaker 3: hang out at a DSA meeting long enough. Anyways, this

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Speaker 3: movie's amazing, Yes, and I really really like it. I

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Speaker 3: think if I saw it when I was younger, it

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Speaker 3: would be in like some of my all time movies.

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Speaker 3: But I'm a pretty recent convert. What about yourself?

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Speaker 2: Honestly kind of the same. There's an alternate timeline version

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Speaker 2: of me, or like a multiverse Caitlyn out there somewhere

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Speaker 2: in the world who has seen this movie a hundred times,

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Speaker 2: who can quote it? Yeah, who started watching it when

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Speaker 2: I was like eight years old. But that just isn't

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Speaker 2: the version of me who's speaking right now. That's okay,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much. I saw this only once in

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Speaker 2: my like it was either when I was a teenager,

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Speaker 2: like in high school, or it was during the kind

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Speaker 2: of great Caitlyn movie binge of two thousand and five

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Speaker 2: somewhere around then. But I watched it that one time,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't see it again until last summer at

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Speaker 2: a screening at the Vista in LA and I was like,

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Speaker 2: holy shit, why was I sleeping on this movie this

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Speaker 2: whole time? This is incredible? What am I doing? And

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Speaker 2: now I'm gonna work it into my regular rotation because

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Speaker 2: it is so good. It's such a great movie.

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Speaker 3: It's a movie.

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Speaker 2: It's a movie that feels like a movie. We come

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Speaker 2: to this place for magic and for Jaws.

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Speaker 3: Literally that I do feel this is so core, but

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Speaker 3: like it's a movie that feels like a movie. When

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Speaker 3: people are talking about movies, they're basically talking about Jaws

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Speaker 3: pretty much. Yeah, it's got something for everyone.

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Speaker 2: It really does.

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Speaker 3: Whether you're a child or traumatized from what you did

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Speaker 3: in World War two, this movie's got something for everybody.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, let's take a quick break and we will come

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Speaker 2: back to do the recap and we're back. Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 2: here's what happens in Jaws.

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Speaker 3: We open on just saying exactly.

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Speaker 2: We open on some young people having a campfire on

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Speaker 2: the beach. A man and a woman run off to

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Speaker 2: go skinny dipping. The man is too drunk and he

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Speaker 2: kind of like passes out in the sand, but the woman, Chrissy,

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Speaker 2: goes into the water, and we've.

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Speaker 3: Got that creature from the Black Ligan shot throughout.

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Speaker 2: In something that's underwater, grabs her and starts thrashing her around,

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Speaker 2: and eventually she's pulled underwater, never to be seen alive again.

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Speaker 3: The casting for this is so seventies sexism, but it's

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Speaker 3: interesting this character is called Chrissy. Yes, So the casting

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Speaker 3: call for this basically said, okay, are you hot, willing

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Speaker 3: to get naked, and very physically strong so that we

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Speaker 3: can yank you underwater. And the actor who played her

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Speaker 3: was all of those things. She had done like some

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Speaker 3: pinup modeling I think, and was a I believe, like

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Speaker 3: a semi professional slimmer like she had.

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Speaker 2: A lot of and a stunt performer, like a professional

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Speaker 2: stunt worker.

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Speaker 3: Some of our most underappreciated actors. But she in what

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Speaker 3: I believe. I watched the Jaws documentary that was filmed

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Speaker 3: for the fortieth anniversary, so about ten years old.

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Speaker 2: Now I also watched that one.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that's when I sent to you and her

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Speaker 3: she was basically waterboarded yeah during the shot, but she

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Speaker 3: was like, but we didn't call it that back then.

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Speaker 3: You were like okay, but just like I don't know,

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Speaker 3: very like casting eat, it'sunded, Like Steven Spielberg was the

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Speaker 3: only person that was like, is she appropriate for the role,

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Speaker 3: And all the other men in the room were like,

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Speaker 3: humana huamanahamana. So you know that's and because it's like

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Speaker 3: the seventies and everyone's our parents age or earlier, they're

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Speaker 3: like ha ha ha, And it was so funny and

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Speaker 3: we just have to be like, well, if you say so,

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Speaker 3: I don't have to agree. It sounds like they've waterboarded

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Speaker 3: you anyways. Yeah, rip Chrissy, m hmm.

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Speaker 2: Then we cut to Martin Brody played by Roy Scheider,

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Speaker 2: the chief of Police of Amity Island, very Martha's Vineyard vibes,

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Speaker 2: and that is famously also where they shot the movie.

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Speaker 3: A cab does include Brody, yes, but I do love him.

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Speaker 3: He's hard. It's hard, he I mean, but that's why

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Speaker 3: coppaganda exists, because guys like Brody don't actually exast I

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Speaker 3: know anyways, do love him.

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Speaker 2: So we meet Brody and his wife Ellen played by

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Speaker 2: Lorraine Gary.

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Speaker 3: Love her too. What a fun Steven Spielberg is so

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Speaker 3: like early Spielberg. I feel like it is full of

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Speaker 3: mom characters like this who just like I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: not similar to the mom and et in that she

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Speaker 3: is a much bigger character in that story. She's a

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Speaker 3: single mother, but just that, like the women in his

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Speaker 3: like seventies and eighties movies in like rather formulaic movies

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Speaker 3: still like have a personality at very least, which so

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Speaker 3: few characters in like genre movies do. It's very like

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Speaker 3: I am your wife. Here is French fries I mad

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Speaker 3: or like however, wives are nagging, right, But she is humorless.

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Speaker 3: She's fun. She is like we live on the beach.

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Speaker 3: She's like not a great parents.

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Speaker 2: I don't think anyone in the seventies were, because the

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Speaker 2: way that parents just let their kids run around loose

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Speaker 2: all willy nilly.

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Speaker 3: It definitely was like, yeah, parent of the time. But

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Speaker 3: also it's just wild how well aware she has that

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Speaker 3: there's a shark nearby and she's like, there are my kids. Oh,

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Speaker 3: you don't like that? They're in the water, like, well,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna have a drink, and you're like, all right,

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Speaker 3: let's go. I love her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she's fun, and so she and Brody have two

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Speaker 2: sons together and are recent transplants from New York City.

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Speaker 2: Then Brody gets a call about a missing girl, the

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Speaker 2: one from the night before, and he discovers her body

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Speaker 2: on the beach, or what's left of her, because she's

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Speaker 2: been badly mangled and it's presumed to be a shark attack.

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Speaker 2: So he wants to close the beach until further notice.

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Speaker 2: But Mayor Vaughn played by Murray Hamilton and his minions

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Speaker 2: go to Brody and say, oh, you can't close the beach.

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Speaker 2: This is a summer beach town and we need the

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Speaker 2: money that tourism brings in. We don't have sharks. That

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Speaker 2: woman died in a boding accident.

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Speaker 3: Probably, I think there's I've read about. I didn't really

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Speaker 3: know before prepping for this episode that Jaws was a book.

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Speaker 3: I did not read it, but I did look up

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Speaker 3: and like watch the video and read a few articles

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Speaker 3: about what the changes that are made in the book.

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Speaker 3: And one of the things that like, I'm not upset

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Speaker 3: at the way Spielberg did it, but I would be curious,

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Speaker 3: like what it would be like if I guess I

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Speaker 3: guess the mayor is a piece of shit in both things,

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Speaker 3: but like everyone seems more like a piece of shit

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Speaker 3: and more complicated in the world of the book, like

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Speaker 3: there aren't really the Spielbergie heroes that you get. But

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Speaker 3: I guess that the book takes more care in a

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Speaker 3: way that I was like, oh, because I like, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, like recognize that dynamic from my mom's community,

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Speaker 3: Like takes way more pains to describe the consequences and

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Speaker 3: the dependency that the community has, and how severely many

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Speaker 3: of the residence, like the full time residence of their

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Speaker 3: community would suffer if the summer economy were to disappear.

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Speaker 3: And so while it's still ultimately I think painted in

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Speaker 3: the book as like the mayor is clearly making a

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Speaker 3: decision against the wellness of his people, I feel like

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Speaker 3: the Spielberg movie makes it as like he's more of

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Speaker 3: like a mister Crabs, like he's like our money, money, money,

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Speaker 3: I want money for myself and just me, Whereas I

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Speaker 3: guess the mayor of the book is like, well, like yoh,

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Speaker 3: there's a shark. Oh, it's killing everybody, but otherwise, like

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Speaker 3: people won't be able to pay their rents. Like it's

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Speaker 3: presented as a more complicated thing where I feel like

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Speaker 3: in the like the people in Amity and This are

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Speaker 3: more like they're very sheeple vibes versus like we're not

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Speaker 3: I mean, And it's like the movie can only do

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Speaker 3: so much. But I feel like the people who are

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Speaker 3: like the working class normal people are made out to

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Speaker 3: be like very not smart as opposed to like, this

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Speaker 3: is a very complex issue, but also they're about to

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Speaker 3: get eaten by a fucking shark. It's not like, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's not like Brody's.

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Speaker 2: Wrong, right, Yeah, the movie seems to kind of oversimplify

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Speaker 2: it slash like lean into the villainization of the Mayor character, but.

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Speaker 3: It's also I don't hate, but no, it works. It

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Speaker 3: still works. I just I just thought I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 3: I would be interested in like alternate universe version of

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Speaker 3: the movie where you know, you had a character that's

383
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Speaker 3: like but I am, like I run a small business

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Speaker 3: or like a small restaurant, and if summer people weren't here,

385
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Speaker 3: I wouldn't be able to YadA YadA, you.

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Speaker 2: Know right what, Yeah, the movie definitely glasses over that. Yeah,

387
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Speaker 2: but in any case, Mayor Vaughn is like, pitshposh, there's

388
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Speaker 2: no shark. Then we cut to the beach. There's lots

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Speaker 2: of people having a nice time. Brody is there keeping

390
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Speaker 2: an eye on things because he's very anxious that everyone's

391
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Speaker 2: going to be eaten by a shark. There's a kid

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Speaker 2: there who is singing do you know the muffin Man?

393
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Speaker 2: And we're like, okay, Shrek vibes.

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Speaker 3: Uh huh huh.

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Speaker 2: Just had to throw that out there. And then there's

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Speaker 2: another little boy, Alex Kittner, who goes in the water

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Speaker 2: and soon after a shark attacks and kills him. This

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Speaker 2: prompts a frenzy in town. Missus Kittner, Alex's mother is

399
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Speaker 2: offering a three thousand dollars reward to the person who

400
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Speaker 2: kills the shark that killed her son. And this town

401
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Speaker 2: hall meeting is called and Brody says that he's going

402
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Speaker 2: to close down the beaches, which upsets, you know, quite

403
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Speaker 2: a few of the townspeople because they have businesses that

404
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: rely on tourism. So it isn't just the mayor like,

405
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Speaker 2: there are townspeople who are like I need summer dollars

406
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Speaker 2: to serve.

407
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Speaker 3: It's just very yes, I just, I just I guess again,

408
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Speaker 3: it's just like they're to me, are presented is very

409
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Speaker 3: like you fucking fool, You're gonna die, which is true.

410
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Speaker 3: But it's also like if we're thinking of Jaws being

411
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Speaker 3: the if Jaws is capitalism, you know, et cetera.

412
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I controversially think that the sharks did nothing wrong

413
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Speaker 2: and that the real villain of the movie is capitalism.

414
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Speaker 3: Well, it's also like, you know, the shark. I guess

415
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 3: that that's I don't know about sharks, but I learned

416
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 3: about sharks for the purposes of today, and uh a

417
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Speaker 3: shark probably wouldn't wouldn't have done any of that shit.

418
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Speaker 2: True.

419
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Speaker 3: And then there's like, I know, we'll talk about it,

420
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 3: but like the author of Jaws went on to become

421
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Speaker 3: a shark conservationist, Like.

422
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Speaker 2: Yeah, because he felt guilty about the aftermath of Jaws.

423
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's like, oops, I was just kidding you guys.

424
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Speaker 3: I didn't think anyone was gonna read all that kind

425
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 3: of fun. Peter Benchley. Yeah, yeah, he's like oops, and

426
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 3: then he spent and now he's like a legend in

427
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Speaker 3: the shark community.

428
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's a shark named after him. I found out.

429
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 3: Yep.

430
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll talk more about that. But we're at this

431
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 2: town meeting and then we hear fingernails on a chalkboard

432
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 2: and they belong to Quint, the Robert Shaw character. He's

433
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: an eccentric local fisherman who says that he'll catch and

434
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 2: kill this shark, but it's not gonna be pretty. I

435
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 2: he'll do it for no less than ten thousand dollars.

436
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: Quint. All right, I'm gonna say this because I don't

437
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 3: think I think since my mom stopped commuting, I don't

438
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 3: think she listens to the show anymore. So if you've

439
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 3: noticed a change in numbers by one, that's probably her,

440
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 3: Which is why I feel comfortable saying Quint does not

441
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 3: not remind me of some of my mom's ex boyfriends,

442
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 3: whoa okay, just the guys that have spent a little

443
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 3: bit too much time in the sun. Maybe. Yeah.

444
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 2: I mean, he's he's kookie, and he's just been in

445
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 2: the sun a lot. He's been in the sun, and

446
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 2: he's been out on a boat all by himself.

447
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 3: He's had too much. He's had a couple of natty daddies.

448
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 3: Let's say that, what's that? It's a fisher Well, it's

449
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 3: like a cheap beer, but it's like a cheap beer

450
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 3: that's extra. It's like turbo beer. Whoa that? I don't know.

451
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 3: My mom dated a couple lobster men in her time,

452
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 3: and Natty Daddy was sort of the lobsterman drink of

453
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 3: choice because it was beer, but it was stronger. Wow,

454
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 3: natty daddies, I can't funk with It's it's they're pretty nasty,

455
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 3: but they're strong. It's like a buzzball for beer drinkers.

456
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 2: Oh okay, got it. We do see him drinking a

457
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 2: narrogast on the boat later on, and I just matters.

458
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: It really brought back. It brought me back to my

459
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 2: days of living in Boston.

460
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 3: Well, I love going home and having a little Ganst

461
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 3: Shandy in the summer time.

462
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 2: That's nice.

463
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 3: But yeah, he's got he's cookie fishermen vibes.

464
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 2: And everyone's like sure, yeah, we'll think about it. Because

465
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 2: he like makes this proposition and no one takes him seriously.

466
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 3: No one is asking the question I'm asking, which is

467
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: what is this accent? Where? Like where are you from?

468
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 3: What doesn't matter not important, it's perfect, it's great. Every

469
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 3: choice being made is the right choice.

470
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 2: Agree. So after this, Brody starts researching sharks. He's astonished

471
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 2: at how little is known about them, which I think

472
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 2: at the time was like, pretty true. There wasn't a

473
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 2: lot of like scientific shark research.

474
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 3: You could just say anything about sharks, which is how Yeah,

475
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 3: and then Robert Benchley regretted it exactly.

476
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, a couple like local guys set up a shark

477
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 2: trap hoping to get that reward money, and the shark

478
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 2: takes the bait, but the guys don't end up catching it,

479
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 2: and the one guy almost gets killed. So just another

480
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: reminder at what they're up against. And then more people

481
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 2: come into town hoping to catch this shark and get

482
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: the reward money, but most of them don't know what

483
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 2: they're doing. They're being reckless. It's chaotic. And then a

484
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: guy named Hooper, this is the Richard Dreyfus character, arrives

485
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: in town. He's a marine biologist from the Oceanographic Institute

486
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 2: there to lend his expertise, which in this case means

487
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 2: I agree, we have to kill this shark, not like

488
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: let's do something else, Like I'm a scientist, and shouldn't

489
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: I be doing like.

490
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 3: Chris, maybe we should like catch this shark. Yeah, I

491
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: think that's reasonable.

492
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: But he's like, no, let's kill it.

493
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: It's reasonable to catch the shark. Right.

494
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 2: So Matt Hooper is there to say what he knows

495
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: about sharks, and he examines the remains of the young woman, Chrissy,

496
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 2: who was attacked in the first scene and concludes that

497
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: it is definitely a shark attack. It was not a

498
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 2: boating accident, and he's furious that the authorities in town

499
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: have been extremely negligent about this. We then cut to

500
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: a shark that has been captured and killed, and everyone

501
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 2: is rejoicing because they assume that it's the shark that

502
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 2: has been attacking people.

503
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 3: That's so funny. It's like that illustrates exactly how much

504
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 3: in this world people don't know about sharks because they're like,

505
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 3: there's only one shark. Ever, we got it at ever,

506
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: we killed a shark, right.

507
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 2: But Hooper is like, well, this is a tiger shark

508
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: and its bite radius doesn't really match up with the

509
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 2: wounds on Chrissy. This shark seems too small. This shark

510
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: is innocent. Yes, we killed an innocent shark. Oh sad,

511
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: and he's like, the only way to be sure, though,

512
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: is to cut the animal open and see what's in

513
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 2: its digestive tract. The mayor is not fond of this idea,

514
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 2: and then missus Kittner approaches Brody to slap him and

515
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 2: be like, I just found out that you knew about

516
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: a girl getting killed here last week, and you knew

517
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: these waters were unsafe, and you let people go swimming anyway,

518
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 2: and now my.

519
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 3: Boy is dead, and great scene.

520
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: And now Brody is feeling some feelings such as guilt,

521
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: and he goes home and he's like drinking a pint

522
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: of wine and Hooper shows up. Oh, I guess he

523
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: starts drinking the pint of wine after Hooper shows up,

524
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: because Hooper brings the bottle of wine. Anyway, Hooper shows

525
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: up to be like, hey, again, I'm pretty sure that

526
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: shark that got caught is not the shark. And so

527
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: they go to the docks and they cut open this

528
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 2: shark and confirm Hooper's suspicion that this was not the

529
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: shark who killed the little boy, which means the killer

530
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: shark is still on the loose. So then Hooper and

531
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: Brody go out on a boat, which, by the way,

532
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 2: Brody is very scared of the water, so this is

533
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: difficult for him.

534
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think fear of the ocean is the world's

535
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 3: most reasonable fear. I personally am afraid of the ocean.

536
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 3: It is too big.

537
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 2: It is really big, and there's so many scary things inside.

538
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 3: I know that you're supposed to be full of with

539
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 3: a sense of wonder, but that's just not my story.

540
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: And that's okay. I am afraid of any water that

541
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: I cannot see the bottom of. So even like a

542
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: shallow pond, if it's murky and I don't know what's

543
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: what the ground looks like, I'm scared.

544
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 3: There's probably a murderer. Yeah, at the bottom there is.

545
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 3: There's a famous movie about the ocean, and guess who

546
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 3: wins the ocean. The movie's called Titanic. Yeah, the ocean

547
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 3: always wins. Wow. Movie sets a false expectation of challenging

548
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 3: the ocean.

549
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: You're oh, you're so true. Yeah. Wow. Anyway, that's why

550
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 2: I only go swimming in swimming pools, thank you very much.

551
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

552
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: Okay. So then so they're out on this boat, Brody

553
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: and Hooper, and they're looking for the big bad Boy Shark,

554
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 2: using all of Hooper's fancy ocean sonar equipment that he

555
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: bought himself because he comes from a wealthy family. And

556
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 2: they come upon the half sunken boat of a local fisherman,

557
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: and Hooper insists on putting on scuba gear and going

558
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: to check it out, which to me seems like a

559
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: very bad idea, what with the ravenous shark on the

560
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: loose and all. Yeah, but he goes in the water

561
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: and he finds a huge hole bitten out of the

562
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: bottom of the boat. He finds a huge shark tooth.

563
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: A very very funny dummy.

564
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

565
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 3: I was like, it is actually having seen I've seen

566
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 3: Jaws in theaters twice now, and it is unbelievably effective

567
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 3: in a crowd. I was so scared the first time

568
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 3: I saw it in theaters. And then when you see

569
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 3: it and you can pause.

570
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, it's a little silly, but silly, it's

571
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 2: a great jump scare.

572
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 3: Everything is so and also like so much of the like,

573
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 3: oh should I get in the water? Shit, It's just

574
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 3: I do feel like this movie. He does a great

575
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 3: job at having a like three way dick measuring contest

576
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 3: between these men and they're all there are coming from

577
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 3: such a different place, but all of them are like,

578
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: oh you think that was hazardous to your safety, well

579
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 3: check out. Like it's just so like masculine, and it

580
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 3: also feels very aware of what it's doing, especially between

581
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: Hooper and Quint.

582
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 2: Definitely, it's just awesome. There's a great moment, speaking of

583
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: the narrogainst there's that moment where Quint chugs his cann

584
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: of beer and then crushes it with his hand, and

585
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: then it cuts to Hooper who then takes the final

586
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: swig of his coffee in a styropham cup and then

587
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 2: crushes the cup.

588
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 3: Which I guess is like somewhat improvised on the day,

589
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 3: which is because of this whole like legendary feud between

590
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 3: Robert Shaw and Richard Dreyfus, which we can talk about

591
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: in a bit. It's not super relevant to like our discussion,

592
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 3: but it is interesting.

593
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. So anyway, they find this dead fisherman and the

594
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 2: huge shark tooths and everything, and it's scary and they

595
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 2: come back to shore and tell the mayor to close

596
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: the beach because a great white shark is in their midst.

597
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 2: That's what this like tooth confirms, but the mayor is like,

598
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: it's the fourth of July weekend, I cannot and will

599
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 2: not close the beach. Then tons of tourists arrive for

600
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,439
Speaker 2: the holiday weekend. People are on the beach and they're

601
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: apprehensively going in the water. But then a shark fin

602
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 2: is spotted and everyone panics and rushes out, and this

603
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 2: like shark patrol are about to shoot what they think

604
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 2: is a shark, but it turns out to be two

605
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 2: boys playing a prank.

606
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 3: Close call for them.

607
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, in shallower water, the real shark is spotted, and

608
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 2: this is where Brody's son Michael is playing with his

609
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 2: friends and the shark is coming for them. A nearby

610
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 2: man is attacked and killed, though the kids are pulled

611
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: to safety and Michael goes into shock and has to

612
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: go to the hospital and stuff. And then Brody convinces

613
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: the mayor to sign a voucher so that he can

614
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: hire Quint to kill the shark once and for all.

615
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 2: So Quin, Brody, and Hooper make preparations. Again Quin, who

616
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: is this like grizzled working class fishermen, is like, who

617
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 2: the fuck is this? Hooper guy with his soft hands

618
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,919
Speaker 2: and money in his pockets, so there's you know, animosity

619
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 2: between them. They pack up various weapons, equipment, a shark cage,

620
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 2: et cetera, and then Captain Quint says, take her to

621
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 2: see mister Murdoch. Let's stretch her legs.

622
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 3: Except this is not the largest ship to ever sail

623
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 3: the Atlantic, not by a long shot.

624
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 2: And in fact, maybe they need a bigger ship the boat.

625
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 3: It's been said, it's been said.

626
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 2: So they set off to the seas to try to

627
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 2: find this great white shark. They're dropping bait, they're trying

628
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 2: to lure it in with chum. There's this moment where

629
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: Brody accidentally drops some tanks of compressed oxygen and Hooper

630
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 2: is like careful, those can explode, and we're like, okay,

631
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 2: Chekhov's air tanks. Then it seems like the shark has

632
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 2: taken the bait and they're trying to reel it in

633
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 2: on this like huge fish line. But they lose it

634
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: after a while, until Brody gets a glimpse of it

635
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 2: as he's throwing more chum in the water, that famous

636
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 2: scene where he like his head pops up into frame.

637
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 3: Oh it's great, so good.

638
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: And then right after this is when we get the

639
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 2: famous line of You're gonna need a bigger boat because

640
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: this shark is huge. It's like twenty five feet long.

641
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 3: It's almost like it's an animal. It's a malfunctioning animatronic almost,

642
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 3: and who can say.

643
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. The shark is now circling the boat, so they

644
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 2: fire harpoons at it that are attached to these floating

645
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: barrels so they can easily track the shark and try

646
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 2: to prevent it from going under. But this shark is

647
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 2: so strong and big that it pulls the barrel under,

648
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 2: so they lose it again in the hours where on

649
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: nightfalls they start drinking and comparing injuries from the past

650
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: and they're sharing stories, including one that provides backstory for Quint,

651
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 2: which is that he was a soldier in World War

652
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 2: Two on the real life naval ship called the USS Indianapolis,

653
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 2: which sunk twelve hundred people went into the water, and

654
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: the survivors floated there for days while sharks started circling

655
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 2: them and picking men off one by one.

656
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 3: So this is a very fabric We kind of circle

657
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 3: back to this. This is so such an effective moment

658
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 3: in the movie right where it's like taking this stock

659
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 3: character and giving him like unbelievable depth to like the

660
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 3: degree to which you're just like, oh my god. Yeah,

661
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 3: I didn't realize. I didn't realize, you know. I mean,

662
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 3: there's a lot to be said. I did a little

663
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 3: bit of research into like this was added. This is

664
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 3: not in the book. This is added for the movie

665
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 3: they hired. There was like I forget there there was.

666
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 3: This movie mainly was by Peter Benchley and one other

667
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,479
Speaker 3: writer who worked frequently with Steve Martin. He also wrote

668
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:15,760
Speaker 3: The Jerk question Mark.

669
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: Oh, Carl Gottlieb.

670
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 3: But this was a third writer, a secret third writer

671
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 3: who had the idea for this monologue, wrote it out,

672
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 3: gave it to Robert Shaw. Robert Shaw rewrote it for himself.

673
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 3: He is also he's a writer, and I guess the

674
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 3: speech was like seven pages long. But this is all

675
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 3: like I thought it was it because it's such a

676
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 3: specific detail that I thought was like, this has to

677
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 3: be from the book, but it's not. And it's so effective,

678
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 3: if overblown, and like what I didn't get from this

679
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: because it's they're talking about like they were transporting parts

680
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 3: of a bomb that would decimate areas of Japan, Right, Yeah,

681
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 3: what I was looking up. I don't know if this

682
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 3: is in the speech not to but like they didn't

683
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 3: know they were doing They knew they were on a

684
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 3: secret mission, they knew they were bringing parts of something,

685
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 3: but they didn't even know what they were transporting, so

686
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:12,919
Speaker 3: they were they'd just done something absolutely horrible unbeknownst to them,

687
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 3: which is just like very darkly fascinating to me. But

688
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 3: at the point being, this is a true story, but

689
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 3: like the shark involvement is way overblown. Most people died

690
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 3: of hypothermia, there were sharks around. But when I was

691
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 3: like reviewing this speech, I was like, he's implying that

692
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 3: like six hundred people got eaten by sharks. Yeah, that

693
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 3: was not the case. It worked. It's better if that

694
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 3: happened for the movie. But I just was, really, this

695
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 3: was not something that I I don't know. I mean,

696
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 3: like I've seen the movie several times and I know

697
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 3: that they cite something specific, but I just never learned

698
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 3: anymore about it. And it is a very it is

699
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 3: a very horrible story. I would uh, I would drink

700
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 3: too truly.

701
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and apparently there's a Nicholas Cage movie about the

702
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 2: USS Indianapolis, Like about sure, there is story.

703
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 3: I think I'll skip it, but that's yeah. In the

704
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 3: documentary I watched, there was also people who were on

705
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 3: the USS Indianapolis interviewed for the documentary.

706
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I watched the same interviews, and it seemed like

707
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: there were mixed reactions to the Robert Shaw speech in

708
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 2: the movie where they were like appreciative that this character

709
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 2: brings this story to life because it was like this

710
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: secret mission that was not disclosed to anyone for a

711
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 2: long time afterward, and a lot of the survivors just

712
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 2: like never either couldn't tell anyone or didn't tell anyone

713
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 2: because you know, this was especially an era where men

714
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 2: didn't address their feelings or their trauma and they just

715
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: buried it and tried to move on with their lives.

716
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: So they were like, this is the first time I

717
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 2: ever saw my story told on screen, which.

718
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 3: Is important, but it's I don't know, it's very tricky too,

719
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 3: because it's like again it's like, I'm aware that the

720
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 3: soldiers aboard the USS Indianapolis did not know that they.

721
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 2: Were delivery doing a war crime.

722
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're war criming, which makes it more tragic to me.

723
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 3: And it's I don't know, it's complicated. I think it's

724
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I was like, that

725
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,720
Speaker 3: was a very interesting and surprising choice in the world

726
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 3: of the.

727
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 2: Movie, especially to refer to this real life event, because

728
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: it could have easily just been like a made up mission,

729
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: a made up ship, yeah, in World War Two.

730
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 3: But it weirdly makes the movie feel more real. Yeah,

731
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 3: in some ways where it's this I think, you know whatever.

732
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 3: Part of the reason I think the movie holds up

733
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 3: is to some extent it feels like it takes place

734
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 3: out of time. There are some like dated aspects of it,

735
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 3: but for the most part, like it's not like they're

736
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 3: using you know, it's it's not like you're watching a

737
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 3: movie that comes out in two thousand and two and

738
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 3: someone takes out like an ancient cell phone and you're

739
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 3: kind of taken out of it for a second. But yeah,

740
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 3: just like having a real life like horrific story of

741
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 3: veterans PTSD that there are people who like it, just

742
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 3: I don't know it really it really brings stuff home

743
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 3: and it makes the character so much more memorable for sure,

744
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 3: and Robert Shaw slays it. Yeah, there's also like a

745
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 3: while there's so much written about the production of this

746
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 3: movie that he because he had like severe alcoholism. He

747
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 3: struggled a lot with alcoholism, as did his father. But

748
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 3: there's like two takes of this scene, and the first

749
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 3: one Robert Shaw was like, I'm gonna have a few

750
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 3: drinks before and then was like too drunk to complete

751
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 3: the scene. And then I don't know, I just I

752
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 3: feel he's it seems like he's really struggling. He called

753
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 3: Spielberg and was like, did I embarrass you? I'm sorry,

754
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 3: and Spielberg was like, it's all good, King, just just

755
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 3: don't do that tomorrow. And then he didn't do that tomorrow.

756
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 3: He shut up and gave the speech that we saw,

757
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 3: and it's great.

758
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 2: I think this is part of that documentary too, though,

759
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: that he did two takes of it, one completely hammered

760
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 2: and one completely sober. And then a lot of people

761
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 2: were like, I couldn't tell the difference. He's just such

762
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: a good actor that like he nailed at both times.

763
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 3: I just really was so endeared to him. Yeah, I

764
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 3: like him a lot.

765
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 2: So anyway, we get this story from Quint that informs

766
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: why he is like fascinated but also has a vendetta

767
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 2: against sharks.

768
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 3: Very captain ahab vibes right.

769
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 2: Right, right right. Then there's a series of like the

770
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,240
Speaker 2: shark comes back, it rams their boat, It disappears again,

771
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: then comes back again, and they shoot it with another

772
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 2: like barrel harpoon, and tie the ropes attached to the

773
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 2: barrel to the back of the boat the stern if

774
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 2: you will, to try to pull the shark toward shallower

775
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 2: waters to kill it there. But the shark is so

776
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: strong that it's pulling the boat around and the boat

777
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 2: starts taking on water, so they have to cut the

778
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 2: shark loose. Now there are three barrels attached to it,

779
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: which means theoretically the shark cannot go underwater. But this

780
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 2: shark isn't like the other sharks, and it can do anything.

781
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:41,919
Speaker 2: And then the shark starts chasing their boat, so again

782
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 2: they try to lead it toward shore. But quint is

783
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: acting a little cuckoo bananas, and he's like pushing the

784
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 2: engines too hard. He's like overheating them. They're like catching fire.

785
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 2: The boat is lightly sinking. Also, he has smashed up

786
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: the radio, so they can't call for help.

787
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 3: He shouldn't he he should not have done that.

788
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 2: He should not have done that.

789
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 3: That was I wish I could tell him if I

790
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 3: could reach into my TV, I'd be like, oh, don't,

791
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 3: why'd you do that? Instead of going to therapy? What's

792
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 3: that horrible god that like really tired meme where it's

793
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 3: like men will smash the only radio communications on the Jaws,

794
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 3: But instead of going to therapy. That's kind of his

795
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:29,240
Speaker 3: whole vibe.

796
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 2: That is his whole vibe. So now they have to

797
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 2: switch to Plan B, which is Hooper is going to

798
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 2: go into the water inside the shark cage and lure

799
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: the shark close enough so that he can like stab

800
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 2: it in the eye or mouth and inject it with

801
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 2: a lethal poison. But the cage seems very flimsy compared

802
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 2: to this goliath of a shark, so it seems like

803
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 2: a bad plan, but they don't really have any their options.

804
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 2: So Hooper goes in the cage in the water, and

805
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 2: of course, the shark immediately breaks the cage apart. Hooper

806
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 2: drops his giant syringe of poison and he's about to

807
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 2: be eaten, and Brody and Quint pull the cage to

808
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: the surface and it's empty, so it seems like Hooper

809
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 2: is dead. The shark is now eating the very sinking boat.

810
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 2: This is the part where Quint basically falls into the

811
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 2: shark's mouth. It is brutal.

812
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 3: It's brutal. It's all you're like, mm hmmm, symbolism maybe yeah, yes,

813
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 3: maybe either way, he's cooked. I also I liked the

814
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 3: behind the scenes detail that they like that in the book,

815
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 3: Hooper also dies, but they brought him back to life

816
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 3: so that they could use a very specific shot of

817
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 3: a real life shark attacking an empty cage.

818
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 2: Yes, kind of.

819
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 3: Fun because I also because I appreciated context for that,

820
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 3: because I because I was like, he's also just because

821
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 3: I don't like Richard drys But I was like, huh,

822
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 3: he could have died. Yeah, I get that Brady's gotta live,

823
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 3: but like he could have.

824
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 2: Died well, because there's all these weird class implications. Now

825
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 2: when you kill off the poor you know, the working

826
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 2: class character, and you keep the more educated, wealthy guy alive.

827
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 3: But I appreciate that that is not what it was.

828
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 3: That was not the intention, right, It just was like,

829
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 3: I do appreciate what it's like. There's a pretty simple

830
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,399
Speaker 3: explanation for what seems like a pointed choice. But they

831
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 3: just wanted to use that scary shot of shark. I

832
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 3: was like, okay, well then I will give you a

833
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 3: pass on that. What.

834
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 2: So Quinn is dead, we think that Hooper is dead.

835
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 2: The shark comes back for Brody, and Brody throws one

836
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 2: of the tanks of compressed oxygen into the shark's mouth

837
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: and starts trying to shoot it. He keeps missing and missing,

838
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 2: until finally he shoots the tank and it and the

839
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 2: shark explode into smithereens. And then guess who resurfaces. It's Hooper,

840
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 2: who did not get eaten, and he and Brody paddle

841
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 2: back to shore on the barrels the Yeah, so let's

842
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 2: take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss.

843
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 3: Done done, and we're back. Okay. First thoughts on this movie. Obviously,

844
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:41,879
Speaker 3: we don't have women in it really, so really note

845
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 3: number one, there's really not many women in it. I

846
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 3: would say there are three, and one is chunkified by

847
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 3: the shark in pretty short order. However, what I think

848
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 3: this movie is great at is showing different shades of masculinity.

849
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 3: I think that it is really really good at that.

850
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 3: So it's an interesting conversation to be had because there

851
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 3: are two women in particular who are generally kept to

852
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 3: the side. They're generally defined by their marriages and motherhood.

853
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 3: But the performances are really good, and they're I guess

854
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 3: in movies of this nature, there is more than I

855
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 3: expect it. I guess true with the two women we have.

856
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: So I guess let's start there and then we'll talk

857
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 3: about masculinity.

858
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, yeah, So, I mean, like many movies, this

859
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 2: is a story about an important and dangerous task that

860
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 2: needs to be carried out and who's gonna do it. Well,

861
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 2: it's a bunch of men and women have to stay

862
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 2: home and take care of the kids. Yeah, So, as

863
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 2: we already talked about. Like Ellen again, played by Lorraine

864
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: gary Is, she's a fun character when she is on screen.

865
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: She's dynamic and she has a few fun lines here

866
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 2: and there where she says want to get drunk and

867
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 2: full around.

868
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 3: That's to her husband, kind of her most icon like,

869
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 3: that's her most iconic negligent parent moment. I love it.

870
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 3: I love it, And.

871
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 2: Then I also enjoy the part where she when Hooper

872
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:23,479
Speaker 2: comes over and she's like, oh, so my husband says

873
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 2: that you're in sharks as if Like it's a like

874
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 2: a division of sales that he's into. Pretty funny line. Yeah,

875
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:35,720
Speaker 2: But other than that, yeah, I mean, she's not given

876
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 2: a whole lot. Apparently in the book, the Ellen character

877
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: is given a much larger presence. In the book, she's

878
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 2: more complicated and flawed.

879
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 3: He's fucking Hooper, right.

880
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 2: She's having an affair with Hooper.

881
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 3: I'm yeah, I did not miss that.

882
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's glad the movie got rid of that. But

883
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 2: it's also at the expense of we don't see her

884
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 2: on screen, although the movie could have just written a

885
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 2: different subplot for her or whatever.

886
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 3: That's the thing. It's like, I don't like that. I

887
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 3: don't like the way the book goes with her character.

888
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 3: It feels like that is just a thing to give

889
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 3: the Brodie character an excuse to be a misogynist. But

890
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 3: I also think that there could have been more that

891
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 3: she could have been involved in. I mean, I don't know. Yeah,

892
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 3: they in like, there's no reason theoretically to me that

893
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 3: the Hooper character specifically could not be a woman. I

894
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,399
Speaker 3: think would actually be far more interesting if the Hooper

895
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,479
Speaker 3: characters specifically were a woman, definitely a well educated woman

896
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 3: of the seventies. Why not. I understand that quint. She's

897
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 3: kind of inextricably a man. Fine, fine, fine, because a

898
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 3: woman could not have been on the USS Indianapolis. But anyways,

899
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 3: and it's not like I want girl cop. It's a

900
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 3: complicated discussion. What I did think, I thought that the

901
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 3: character of Ellen, she is present at moments that I

902
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 3: didn't think she would be. This is peanut, but like,

903
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 3: I did appreciate that there. Spielberg is really good at

904
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 3: this of adding these like quiet family moments inside of

905
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:18,280
Speaker 3: genre movies that I feel like really make his movies special.

906
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 3: And there is one of them here that I thought

907
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 3: was very memorable, where it's like Brody is sitting with

908
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 3: his youngest son. He is like really upset, understandably because

909
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 3: the only other woman in the movie has just slapped

910
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 3: him and said, my son's death was preventable, you bitch. Yeah,

911
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 3: and she's right, and she's right, and he is like

912
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 3: he knows it, and he knows it. And then his

913
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 3: kid is sitting next to him, a clear reminder of

914
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 3: like a kid around the age of the kid who died.

915
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 3: And there's just like this really sweet moment that Ellen

916
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 3: sees and is clearly very affected by that I thought

917
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 3: was like just the moment you don't get in most

918
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 3: genre movies. It's really good where you know, his kid

919
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 3: is kind of like mirroring him like kids do, and

920
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 3: then it's like, why are you upset? And he's like,

921
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:14,720
Speaker 3: I kill the kid. But just and that moment between

922
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 3: like father and son of just like a moment of

923
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 3: real affection and emotional honesty. It's just something you don't

924
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 3: really see a lot, and it really endeared me to

925
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 3: everyone in that scene totally.

926
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 2: I made the same note because I mean, think of

927
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:34,359
Speaker 2: how many scenes where you see a man in emotional

928
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 2: turmoil and he deals with it by trashing a room

929
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 2: or lashing out in some a violent way, and to

930
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 2: instead have this like very tender moment between father and son.

931
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 2: I mean, the bar is low, but it was like

932
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 2: a very refreshing moment that I appreciated.

933
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, and I think that like for its time,

934
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 3: even though we're not lit, it seems like, honestly, the

935
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 3: way that they're doing their family is very similar. It

936
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:09,439
Speaker 3: is very common for middle class and specifically white middle

937
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 3: class families of this time where the wife does not

938
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 3: appear to work. She seems to be a stay at

939
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 3: home mom. Oh she does work. She's a stay at

940
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 3: home mom, and the father is the you know, money breadwinner, right,

941
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 3: But it seems like their relationship is pretty equitable, which

942
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 3: I also appreciated. There's not a moment where Brody like

943
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 3: keeps things from her. There's not really a moment where

944
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 3: I feel like, again, just like what you come to

945
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 3: expect in movies like this of this time, where the

946
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 3: husband would be like, you don't get it, you can't.

947
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 3: I was this again. It's a small thing, but the

948
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 3: fact that she's in the room with Hooper and Brody

949
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 3: the whole time they're talking about the shark again, I

950
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 3: feel like a lesser movie, he'd be like, go, tuck

951
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 3: the kids in or whatever, like she would be off

952
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 3: doing woman stuff, and then she'd come in and be like,

953
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 3: what's going on, And it's like she doesn't. She doesn't

954
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 3: totally get what's going on, But neither does Brodie. And

955
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 3: it's not like, you know, he is presented as hyper

956
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 3: competent in comparison to her. I think really the only

957
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 3: edge Brody has over his wife is that he is

958
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,959
Speaker 3: I think concerned the correct amount about sharks, and she's

959
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 3: maybe not quite concerned the right amount about sharks because

960
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 3: she's listening to the mayor and the media, which I

961
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 3: don't think makes her a dupe. I think that she's

962
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 3: kind of the stand in for like, well, what do

963
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 3: you mean they said it's fine, they got a shark.

964
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 3: I don't know. I just I liked how her Her

965
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 3: character should have had more to do, but whenever she

966
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 3: was present, I felt like she was a treated as

967
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 3: an equal and had like a personality that was her own,

968
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 3: which is the bare minimum you can ask of a character,

969
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,439
Speaker 3: but still in a genre movie in nineteen seventy five,

970
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 3: I was like pleasantly surprised by it same and that

971
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 3: she's allowed to be horny, want to get drunk and

972
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 3: fool around public She well, she didn't publicly say she

973
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 3: was hardy. She said she was harny. She didn't even

974
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 3: know that there are people filming that. She said she

975
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 3: was horny, and she didn't die. Again in the nineteen seventies,

976
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 3: that didn't happen very much.

977
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 2: I mean, well, let's look at what happens to the

978
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 2: woman in the first scene, shall we.

979
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 3: The first horny woman. Yeah, she is sacrificed to the

980
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 3: shark god.

981
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 2: So she again played by stunt performer an actor named

982
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 2: Susan Jane Beckliney. She is naked and doesn't need to be,

983
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 2: which is, you know, the common trope in horror movies

984
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 2: that we've discussed a lot, where it's just like the

985
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 2: sexualization of a woman as she's being brutally killed. Yeah,

986
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 2: it's something we see all the time in horror movies.

987
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 3: And this is not the worst offender of it. Which

988
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 3: is interesting because I feel like when I think about

989
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 3: that original death, I remember it as more sexualized than

990
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 3: it actually.

991
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 2: Is same And what is that? What are our brains doing?

992
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 3: I think it's because there's just so many scenes that

993
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 3: are inspired by it that are boy sexual. I don't

994
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 3: necessarily think it's it's not it's it's not an US problem.

995
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 3: I don't think, right, I remember it as we're sexualized,

996
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 3: but I and I don't know. It's like Spielberg is

997
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 3: not particularly guilty of over sexualizing women characters. I don't think,

998
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:30,959
Speaker 3: if anything, he's not. He's very like sanitized vibes. There's

999
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 3: plenty to be I mean, we've talked about Steven Spielberg

1000
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 3: many times, and let's not forget the Zionism. Let's not

1001
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 3: in terms of how women are generally cheated. I think

1002
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 3: in his body of work, women don't tend to be

1003
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 3: hyper sexualized to the point where this almost feels like

1004
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 3: an outlier moment.

1005
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 2: Right, And maybe you can just chalk it up to

1006
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 2: this was his first big movie in the book, right also,

1007
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 2: and so maybe he's like, I'm not a huge fan

1008
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 2: of that. I'm not gonna do that again. And like,

1009
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 2: she is naked, but a lot of the naked, a

1010
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 2: lot of the nudity is implied.

1011
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 3: Although it's a very dark scene too. I think it's

1012
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 3: because like which I would imagine was related to just

1013
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 3: like production. But you really can't see very much. You

1014
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 3: can't because of how it shot. I don't know if

1015
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 3: the brightness on my TV is turned up too high.

1016
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 3: But for the first time watching this movie, I did

1017
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 3: you can see her nakedness under the water, like in

1018
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 3: the underwater shot or I like, yeah, like kind of

1019
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 3: an upshot. It's it's still pretty obscured and faint and

1020
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 3: difficult to see, but like you can see enough that

1021
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, she's got full bush and good

1022
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 3: for her. But nineteen seventy five right back.

1023
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 2: Remember, right, So, but it's a quick shot and the

1024
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 2: rest of the time, you don't see nudity.

1025
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 3: Really so well. And also, I watch, like you said,

1026
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 3: it's not the worst defender. But but but and I

1027
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 3: don't know how involves Spielberg was in this, but that

1028
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 3: is an image that is harped on in marketing. I

1029
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 3: also think that that's another reason we remember it as

1030
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 3: more sexual than it actually is, because it is used

1031
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 3: as a selling point to imply that you're going to

1032
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 3: see and be titillated more than perhaps you actually are.

1033
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 3: I'm also pretty sure I didn't watch any of the sequels.

1034
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 3: I thought about it and then I thought, I'm not

1035
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 3: going to do that. But I do think that that

1036
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 3: is something that subsequent movies are in the Jaws fronchies

1037
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 3: are more guilty of Jaws hive if you've watched Jaws.

1038
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 3: I've weirdly seen Jaws four, but it was on one

1039
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 3: of those. I was on a show in New York

1040
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 3: that was like, we're making fun of Jaws four. Okay,

1041
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 3: so I don't really remember anything, but if the marketing

1042
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 3: is to be believed, it seems like this idea of

1043
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 3: sexy women being torn to shreds by a shark is

1044
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 3: an image that they return to time and time again.

1045
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 3: But in the movie itself, I think it's telling in

1046
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 3: that I mean, it is what it is. It is

1047
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 3: the movie with a young woman who is expressed that

1048
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 3: she's horny being torn to shreds by an animal. That's

1049
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 3: not great, made worse by the fact that she is

1050
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 3: one of three women in the entire movie. A batting

1051
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 3: average of one for three in terms of being torn

1052
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 3: to shreds is pretty bad. There are two men torn

1053
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 3: to shreds by the t and then one child. Yeah,

1054
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 3: there are two men, but there's so many men that

1055
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 3: I think that, you know, the batting average is actually

1056
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 3: not as bad by a long shot rip to her.

1057
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 3: And the thing that the other thing that frustrated me

1058
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 3: was that when the second victim of the shark, Alex

1059
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 3: Alex the kid, Yes, when he dies, there are narrative

1060
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:47,479
Speaker 3: consequences for that. People do not seem to like there's

1061
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 3: no one from Chrissy's life that is like, she doesn't

1062
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 3: seem to be particularly grieved, which I also think, like

1063
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 3: is unrealistic given how the meeting tends to narrativize white

1064
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 3: women's death like sensational eyes. Yeah, like, yeah, I was

1065
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 3: kind of adrift by that because obviously I'm not that

1066
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 3: like Jaws eating a child. That's bad, that's no good. Yes,

1067
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 3: but it was just weird that, Yeah, there is this

1068
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 3: weird lack of reaction to a teenage girl getting eaten, right.

1069
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 2: I My head canon was like, oh, the mayor is

1070
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 2: like keeping it under wraps, which he can't do because

1071
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 2: everyone saw this child get killed. That was a very

1072
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 2: very public thing versus no one saw Christy get killed.

1073
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 3: That makes total sense. But I don't.

1074
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 2: But that's not that's again just my head canon. It's

1075
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 2: not explicitly in the movie Mayor.

1076
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 3: That mayor he's like, yeah, He's like, Okay, if there's

1077
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 3: a shark attack and everyone sees a ten year old

1078
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 3: tornish reds, I guess I have to be like, oh no,

1079
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 3: he I mean that scene is interesting, though, I mean

1080
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 3: that's well, actually sorry, let's let's talk about the third woman. Yes,

1081
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 3: there's there's but one woman to go another. I think

1082
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 3: terrific performance by an actor who has not given much

1083
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 3: to do but really makes a meal of what she has.

1084
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 3: I am talking about Lee Fierro playing Missus Kittner has

1085
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 3: two scenes, plays both of them incredibly. I think like

1086
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 3: the scene where she everyone's running out of the ocean

1087
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 3: and she's the last person there is heartbreaking. And then

1088
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 3: when she shows up in like with all I mean,

1089
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 3: she's with all due respects, very party city coded morning clothes.

1090
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 2: It was the seventies. Who knows.

1091
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 3: It's no I'm calling them out, it's look at her.

1092
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 3: Her outfit looks like shit, but she pulls no punches

1093
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 3: with this, you know, like with this piece of shit

1094
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 3: cop that let this happen. I love that scene. I

1095
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 3: wish that we had any more of her after that.

1096
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 3: I wish she didn't just disappear into the mist. But

1097
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 3: I really, uh yeah, I thought that that was an

1098
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 3: incredibly played scene that you know, I don't know, I

1099
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 3: just wish that there was a woman involved in the

1100
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 3: main action. It's not like the actions of women have

1101
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 3: no consequence in this world, but they don't get to

1102
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 3: They're mostly in a reactionary position. They're not very active.

1103
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, it's more like the emotional through line of

1104
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 2: the movie versus the more active events that take place.

1105
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, they're the victims, are They're they're reacting to

1106
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 3: the decisions that men are making.

1107
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 2: Right. But a great performance, indeed, and then there's the men.

1108
01:04:53,360 --> 01:05:00,120
Speaker 2: I guess starting with Brodie. Sure, as you said already,

1109
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 2: this is copaganda this movie. The movie humanizes police, that

1110
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 2: perpetuates the idea that cops are here to keep our

1111
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 2: community safe when.

1112
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 3: Well and does challenge that, I just think, because I

1113
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 3: mean that scene with Missus Kittner does challenge that, but

1114
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:25,439
Speaker 3: not in a very it's not a comprehensive like he's

1115
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 3: still the hero at the end of the day. It's like,

1116
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 3: I'm sure and like, I like this character, and that's

1117
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 3: copaganda done well, I know, which is a scary thing.

1118
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 3: But yeah, Missus Kidner, Like, I think it's so interesting

1119
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 3: the way that the city and this cops are presented

1120
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 3: in opposition to each other in the space of this movie,

1121
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 3: but in a way that feels very unrealistic. Where as

1122
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 3: we know, so, I mean, we like live in Los Angeles.

1123
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 3: There's I mean, it's all cops, but we live in

1124
01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 3: a pretty egregious area for cops and the city being

1125
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 3: very much aligned more often than not when it comes

1126
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 3: to terrorizing their own people. Right, it is very much

1127
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 3: playing into this narrative of the heroic cop fighting against

1128
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 3: the evil mayre and there's no shortage of evil mayors

1129
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 3: in the world. But it's very unrealistic and very movie

1130
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 3: coded to be like the cop is trying to do

1131
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 3: their job, it's just the cities in the way. I

1132
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:33,439
Speaker 3: think that that is just like so observedly, not how

1133
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 3: things are I.

1134
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 2: Mean, And that's what I mean about, like the movie

1135
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 2: perpetuating the idea that cops are here to keep our

1136
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:44,919
Speaker 2: communities safe, because the reality is that cops are there

1137
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 2: to protect the property of the ruling class and to

1138
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 2: incite violence at protests and to union bust and all

1139
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 2: of those things. So this is why this is effective copaganda.

1140
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's weird because the movie is critical of

1141
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 2: institutions such as capitalism, or it's critical of the mayor

1142
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 2: wanting to keep the beaches open so that the town

1143
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 2: can profit from the tourism, but it doesn't it doesn't

1144
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 2: apply that same criticism to police cops.

1145
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 3: Which is why I think it's so effective, honestly, is

1146
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 3: because it is not completely uncritical of the society that

1147
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 3: it's released into. It is critical of some stuff, but

1148
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 3: not all stuff, and like it almost perpetuates the idea

1149
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 3: that like the only thing preventing the cops from keeping

1150
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 3: you safe are your elected representatives, which can which is

1151
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:42,160
Speaker 3: just well, actually that like you know, there's no world

1152
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 3: show me a police department where they're really trying to

1153
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 3: do the right thing. It's just that yeah, yeah, like

1154
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 3: that is observably untrue. But it's complicated because yeah, like

1155
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 3: the movie is criticizing the mayor. But it's like, I

1156
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 3: think that this is sort of a works great in

1157
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:04,480
Speaker 3: terms of like it's a great movie beat, but like

1158
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 3: the mayor sort of is like capitalism the guy in

1159
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:11,439
Speaker 3: a way that you know, capitalism is presented in this movie,

1160
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 3: which is fascinating. Doesn't happen in like blockbuster movies often,

1161
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 3: and it's something like Steven Spielberg is pretty willing to

1162
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 3: engage with, but it's just him. It's not presented as

1163
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 3: the very complex issue that it is, because this movie

1164
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 3: can't be too complicated and work allegedly. Yeah, I don't know.

1165
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 3: I like there is that one moment that I think

1166
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:40,760
Speaker 3: is interesting in the hospital after Brody's son Michael was

1167
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 3: almost sharcked and was kind of like in shock and

1168
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 3: he's in the hospital and Brody you know again, it's

1169
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 3: like it's well, it's all of a sudden a problem

1170
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:53,679
Speaker 3: now that it's on my doorstep, which is the story

1171
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 3: of time immemorial, of like, well, it's one thing if

1172
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 3: Alex Kittner dies because I don't know him, to the

1173
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 3: point where, even after Alex Kitner dies, Brody continues to

1174
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 3: cooperate with the mayor. It's only when his kid almost

1175
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:12,719
Speaker 3: dies that he is like, I refuse to cooperate any further.

1176
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 3: And the only reason the mayor actually shows the beach

1177
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 3: down is because his kids were there, right, which I

1178
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:22,559
Speaker 3: think is a very smart It's weird because in the

1179
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 3: movie it's presented as like I don't see it as

1180
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:29,679
Speaker 3: a particularly critical moment, but it does feel very real

1181
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 3: of like that would be the only circumstances under which

1182
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:38,679
Speaker 3: these characters would take the safety of everyone into account

1183
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,800
Speaker 3: is if they're if they specifically happened to also be

1184
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:45,719
Speaker 3: threatened by it, which is how I feel like most

1185
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:49,879
Speaker 3: decisions that are made that are generally good for everyone

1186
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 3: tend to happen because it also threatens the ruling class

1187
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:56,840
Speaker 3: and it benefits them to make that choice. Right.

1188
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 2: It feels cut from the same cloth, like whatever shitty

1189
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 2: men being like Happy International Women's Day to my wife

1190
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 2: and daughters, and that's it only.

1191
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I also think the performance from

1192
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 3: Murray Hamilton, who's in Fucking Everything, Babe. He gives a

1193
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:28,759
Speaker 3: really good performance. I enjoyed it. He plays a villain

1194
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 3: very well. I also remember when he was in The Graduate.

1195
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:38,799
Speaker 3: He's mister Robinson. Oh that's right, he's mister Cocked. He's cooked,

1196
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 3: he's cocked, and he's sort of cocked in this movie

1197
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 3: spiritually as well. Wow, when you think about it.

1198
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about it, thank you.

1199
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 3: He's also in the Amityville Horror. Have you ever seen it?

1200
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 2: You know what I've seen the Ryan Reynolds one.

1201
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 3: Oh they're both bad. Yeah, they're both bad. I guess

1202
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 3: that's all we are. They're both bad, but in very

1203
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 3: different ways. Sure, but he is also at that he's

1204
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 3: very When I think of a movie that came out

1205
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 3: in the seventies, there he is.

1206
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 2: Sure. The last little piece I think of Copaganda here

1207
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:19,479
Speaker 2: is the scene where Brody and Hooper are on the

1208
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:22,559
Speaker 2: boat at night looking for the shark, and Brody is

1209
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 2: drunkenly after his pint of wine talking about being a cop,

1210
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 2: and he's like, oh, yeah, New York City, there's violence,

1211
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 2: there's muggings. But you know, in a town like this,

1212
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 2: one man can really make a difference. You know, in

1213
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 2: twenty five years, there's never been a murder here. And

1214
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:46,759
Speaker 2: he's chalking that up to police being effective at their job,

1215
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 2: ignoring that, you know, in a place where they are,

1216
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 2: which is basically like Martha's vineyard or Nantucket or a

1217
01:11:55,320 --> 01:12:00,080
Speaker 2: similarly like wealthy place or you know, an island full

1218
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:04,679
Speaker 2: of mostly upper middle class people that you know, there

1219
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 2: isn't crimes of desperation and stuff like that. And he's like, no,

1220
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 2: it's because of cops being competent, of course. Yeah, and

1221
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 2: we know that that's not true.

1222
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 3: Yeah. And the fact that that's what a drunk cop

1223
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 3: would say is I believe in the power of world,

1224
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:29,240
Speaker 3: like right, right, sure, yeah, akeb includes Officer Brody. Yeah,

1225
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 3: and again not the worst example of it, but also

1226
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 3: a really good example of it in a way, because

1227
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:38,880
Speaker 3: I still like him in spite of it all. Then

1228
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:45,840
Speaker 3: we have our college boy Richard Dreyfus Hooper, the Marine Biologist.

1229
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 3: Another interesting little piece of gristle here because the movie

1230
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 3: does not with him shy away from class, it doesn't

1231
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 3: do much with it. Well, actually, maybe that's not true,

1232
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 3: Like I did appreciate that like this he both needs Hooper.

1233
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 3: It's not disparaging of his higher education, but it also

1234
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 3: acknowledges why he has it, and I appreciated that, like

1235
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:15,080
Speaker 3: he basically admits he's like the rich boy. Allegations are true,

1236
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 3: I'm a rich boy. I guess in the book he

1237
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:22,400
Speaker 3: is way more of an asshole about it, and he's

1238
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 3: hooking up with with Ellen, so I think he's again

1239
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:30,720
Speaker 3: the book, honestly, I considered reading it, but I'm like,

1240
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:34,599
Speaker 3: it sounds like a bummer. I would much rather watch

1241
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 3: the movie Jaws, unfortunately, but in this world he is,

1242
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 3: you know, highly educated, very necessary. Like I think that

1243
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 3: between Quint and Hooper there's an interesting balance struck of

1244
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 3: like they're from very different classes. They resent each other

1245
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 3: for it, which makes sense and is like something that

1246
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 3: we've all seen in either direction, but that they are

1247
01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 3: also both totally valid, but they're they're also both like

1248
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 3: very needed on this mission, and they're like you could

1249
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 3: argue the person who is basically useless is Brodie totally

1250
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:12,040
Speaker 3: like like.

1251
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 2: I'm scared of the water. Why am I even here?

1252
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 3: He's mister chum, Like it is kind of like why

1253
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 3: are you here, mister chump? But like that Robert Shaw

1254
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 3: is from uh, I mean, working class background. We don't

1255
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:26,800
Speaker 3: really know much about him other than he was in

1256
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 3: the service, but you know, he's a veteran. It doesn't

1257
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:32,599
Speaker 3: seem like he given his reaction to Hooper, I don't

1258
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 3: think that he like has a lot of higher education.

1259
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:38,680
Speaker 3: But he knows how to fucking drive a boat. He

1260
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 3: knows like, he knows.

1261
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 2: The ocean, he knows fish, he knows sharks.

1262
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 3: He has the experience. Yeah, like and and he's like

1263
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 3: literally how he's introduced is as an authority, even though

1264
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:54,920
Speaker 3: people are still like, oh, he's weird and like, to

1265
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 3: be honest, he is weird. They're not so wrong. It's

1266
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 3: not necessarily classes of people to say quint is weird,

1267
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 3: because also, like he's weird, and people of all classes

1268
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:07,879
Speaker 3: could be weird, and there he is being weird. But anyways,

1269
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:11,160
Speaker 3: but he has presented as an authority whose labor has

1270
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 3: extreme value. I mean, granted, he doesn't really get to

1271
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 3: use the money because he's eaten by a shark, but

1272
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 3: he he gets his rate. Yeah, and I hope to

1273
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 3: one day get my rate before being eaten in a

1274
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 3: sod and half yeah, so I don't know. I appreciated

1275
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 3: that with both of these characters, the movie realizes that

1276
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 3: they are both integral to this mission working like the

1277
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 3: mission does not go off the way it does without

1278
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:49,600
Speaker 3: Hooper's expertise, and it certainly doesn't go off without Quint's expertise.

1279
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:54,840
Speaker 3: Hooper's annoying, but I also do I like. I don't

1280
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:57,720
Speaker 3: like Richard Dravis, but I do like the character, like

1281
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:00,439
Speaker 3: I do think outside of what you pointed out before,

1282
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:04,639
Speaker 3: where he's like suspiciously very uninterested in conservation, which feels

1283
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 3: just like a bad writing choice that feels unrealistic because

1284
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 3: it's also very incurious for someone that's like I love

1285
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:14,760
Speaker 3: sharks to be like and so let's kill one, kill it,

1286
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 3: and I'll dissect it, Like wouldn't you want to observe it?

1287
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:19,759
Speaker 3: Wouldn't that be useful?

1288
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 2: And he's a scientist, like, he's not a hunter, he's

1289
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 2: not a fisherman like you would think he would be.

1290
01:16:25,479 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 3: He would understand it makes sense that Quinn wants to

1291
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:29,560
Speaker 3: kill the shark because that's his job.

1292
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 2: Right, But Hooper, he would know how important sharks are

1293
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:38,400
Speaker 2: to the ecosystem of the ocean. And that you shouldn't

1294
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 2: just kill them, and honestly would have been a more

1295
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 2: interesting narrative choice if like Brody and quint are like, no,

1296
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:50,759
Speaker 2: this shark needs to die for public safety reasons, and

1297
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 2: by contrast, Hooper was like, no, we can't just kill

1298
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 2: a shark, Like sure, we can try to catch it

1299
01:16:56,439 --> 01:17:00,599
Speaker 2: and contain it and transport it elsewhere or some thing.

1300
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 3: And you can argue that like, no, this shark needs

1301
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:07,640
Speaker 3: to live for public safety reasons, like you know, by observing,

1302
01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:10,880
Speaker 3: like even if you're strictly thinking about sharks as they

1303
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 3: relate to people, it's like understanding the behavior of sharks

1304
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:19,840
Speaker 3: would be far more valuable, right than just Yeah, that

1305
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:23,639
Speaker 3: really feels like a writing error more than anything else,

1306
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:28,040
Speaker 3: because I think, like you know, scientists were not let's say,

1307
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:31,760
Speaker 3: consulted on the writing of the book specifically, and I agree,

1308
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 3: it is like a more interesting dynamic, and then it

1309
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:37,080
Speaker 3: would be interesting to see what does Brodie think about

1310
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 3: that that it just like adds an element, a more

1311
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 3: complicated element to everything versus Okay, so we're all on

1312
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 3: the same page. We've got to kill this shark. It's

1313
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:51,040
Speaker 3: just the how that we're struggling with like the whether

1314
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:53,880
Speaker 3: to do it or not is very interesting. But it

1315
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:57,120
Speaker 3: feels like maybe there's the script of the production, like

1316
01:17:57,160 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 3: they did not do research like that is what it

1317
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:01,880
Speaker 3: sounds like.

1318
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:04,720
Speaker 2: Could be. Could also be that there again wasn't that

1319
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 2: much shark research available at the time, but there were

1320
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:12,880
Speaker 2: marine biologists, there were people who this was like, we're

1321
01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 2: experts in this area.

1322
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 3: So who's the French guy in the hats? You wonder Cristo? Yeah,

1323
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:23,599
Speaker 3: this is Custo era, Jacques Custo, remember him? Is kind

1324
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 3: of yeah, he's the French guy in the hat. Wait,

1325
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 3: let me check. What if I was wrong?

1326
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:29,840
Speaker 2: I know the name, but I just guess I don't

1327
01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:30,439
Speaker 2: know what he does.

1328
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 3: He's a famous French marine biologist, like I think he

1329
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:38,400
Speaker 3: had a yes, okay, yes, oh he looks like Steve

1330
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 3: Zisu and all the thing that seems that's okay, that

1331
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:44,640
Speaker 3: makes sense, And actually Steve Zisu did not make that up.

1332
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 3: It was jac Cousta. Yeah. I believe he is very

1333
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 3: popular cultural figure in the seventies and may in fact

1334
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 3: have something to do with why this movie was even

1335
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 3: made because it was like it and uh, listeners, correct

1336
01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:04,600
Speaker 3: me if I'm wrong. If you are a knowwher of

1337
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:09,120
Speaker 3: ocean facts or a Cousteau head. My vague understanding is

1338
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 3: that Jacques Custeau was a very popular figure in like

1339
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:14,960
Speaker 3: the sixties, seventies and eighties and was kind of like

1340
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:18,760
Speaker 3: one of the first, if not the first, like mainstream

1341
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:24,000
Speaker 3: oceanography expert to become very popular. So like, I think

1342
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 3: you're right, like there is an interest in the ocean

1343
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 3: at this time, but perhaps not a lot of like

1344
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:34,479
Speaker 3: commonly accepted I mean, which is wild because you think

1345
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 3: about the impact of Jaws and like there's no world

1346
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:40,680
Speaker 3: where there's you know, remember the ten consecutive years we're

1347
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:43,960
Speaker 3: noal which shut the fuck up about Shark Week. Oh yes,

1348
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:46,519
Speaker 3: And it's just like you've got to shut the fuck

1349
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 3: up about Shark Week. There. I'm not I'm not interested,

1350
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 3: but like, I don't know, that's one of the interesting things.

1351
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:57,719
Speaker 3: I mean, even with Peter Benchley, like we were talking about

1352
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:01,479
Speaker 3: this movie, Like I don't think anyone's arguing that this

1353
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 3: is a correct scientific representation of a shark. It's like

1354
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:09,320
Speaker 3: projecting a bunch of symbolism and moby Dick kind of shit.

1355
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:11,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I have a whole section on this, Oh Okay,

1356
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:12,720
Speaker 2: you'll indulge me.

1357
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:14,519
Speaker 3: Let's do it. Let's do it.

1358
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 2: I guess to start though, with the and this is

1359
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:23,599
Speaker 2: like pretty well known knowledge, so I'll just make this

1360
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:28,679
Speaker 2: really quick and irad stuff off about the sorry well

1361
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,800
Speaker 2: known knowledge about the like behind the scenes making of

1362
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:33,800
Speaker 2: the movie. I'll start with that, and then we'll go

1363
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 2: into sort of the like public reception of the movie.

1364
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 2: So for anyone who doesn't know, this movie was a

1365
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:45,880
Speaker 2: very difficult shoot. It went over budget and over schedule

1366
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:51,080
Speaker 2: by like triple. The script kept being rewritten during the shoot.

1367
01:20:51,479 --> 01:20:55,439
Speaker 2: The ocean and the weather were very temperamental, The cast

1368
01:20:55,479 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 2: and the crew were largely miserable the whole time. The

1369
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:01,920
Speaker 2: studio kept almost pull the plug on the production, and

1370
01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 2: the mechanical shark famously rarely functioned, which ended up again

1371
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:11,200
Speaker 2: famously working to the movie's benefit because they basically ended

1372
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:14,280
Speaker 2: up having to imply the presence of the shark rather

1373
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 2: than show it on screen as much as they initially

1374
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:21,599
Speaker 2: intended to amazing, which lended a sense of like, the

1375
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:24,680
Speaker 2: shark is looming around, but we can't see it, and

1376
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:26,240
Speaker 2: that makes it scarier.

1377
01:21:26,920 --> 01:21:30,639
Speaker 3: That Plus John Williams core, Yeah, great perfection.

1378
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 2: So difficult shoot, but against all odds, the movie was

1379
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:38,839
Speaker 2: finished and made into a really good movie and released

1380
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:40,960
Speaker 2: and it became a smash hit. It was, like you said,

1381
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:43,639
Speaker 2: the first blockbuster is wild.

1382
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:48,719
Speaker 3: It made half a billion dollars in nineteen seventy five.

1383
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:53,360
Speaker 3: Many that's approximately three trillion dollars. So yeah, yeah, nine

1384
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 3: million dollar budget, and that was twice, Like I think

1385
01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:58,599
Speaker 3: it went over its budget twice, so it was technically

1386
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 3: a four point five million dollar your budget movie that

1387
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 3: went to nine million dollars and then made one trillion

1388
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 3: billion millions. Everyone saw this movie seven times, yes.

1389
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 2: And it was also one of the first movies that

1390
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:17,000
Speaker 2: got a very big release everywhere simultaneously. Because prior to this,

1391
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:19,639
Speaker 2: it was like, you know, a movie would open in

1392
01:22:19,640 --> 01:22:22,360
Speaker 2: this city over here, and then maybe a little later

1393
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 2: it would open over here.

1394
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 3: It would spread it if it did well in a

1395
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:28,519
Speaker 3: certain like market. Yeah, like if you lived in the

1396
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 3: if you lived in any far flong area, it would

1397
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:33,880
Speaker 3: take a long time for a movie to get to

1398
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:36,040
Speaker 3: you because it would be tested in a bajillion markets

1399
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:38,680
Speaker 3: before it got to you, for sure. But everyone got

1400
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:42,519
Speaker 3: Jasa also like a real big especially because it's like

1401
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:45,240
Speaker 3: I had to keep reminding myself. Star Wars comes out

1402
01:22:45,400 --> 01:22:48,519
Speaker 3: after that, and so this movie also sort of sets

1403
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:52,679
Speaker 3: the precedent of like a huge marketing and merchandising push

1404
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 3: as well.

1405
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 2: Definitely, this is one of the first movies that sold

1406
01:22:56,600 --> 01:23:00,439
Speaker 2: a bunch of merch that people absolutely gobbled up. There's

1407
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 2: t shirts and posters and toys and games like all

1408
01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:03,880
Speaker 2: these tie.

1409
01:23:03,640 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 3: In shark underwear. You're like, why not.

1410
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:08,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly all this stuff. Yeah, And the movie's approach

1411
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:12,519
Speaker 2: to marketing was fairly new for the time, where it

1412
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:15,760
Speaker 2: ran a bunch of trailers as ads on TV, which

1413
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:20,000
Speaker 2: was not very common at that time. That contributed to

1414
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 2: the amount of people that saw it. Yeah, it stayed

1415
01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:27,519
Speaker 2: in theaters for like a year in some places, Like

1416
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:33,360
Speaker 2: this was the first blockbuster and like not a whole

1417
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:39,080
Speaker 2: lot of movies have like rivaled its impact and popularity since.

1418
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:43,599
Speaker 2: And obviously after this, Spielberg was given a blank check

1419
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:46,080
Speaker 2: to do any movie he wanted for the rest of

1420
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:49,480
Speaker 2: his career, and he did, and he did. He's obviously,

1421
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:53,240
Speaker 2: I mean another really ice cold take here. He's made

1422
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:56,960
Speaker 2: some great movies. Many of them are my favorite movies

1423
01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 2: of all time, which is difficult to reconcile right now,

1424
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:09,000
Speaker 2: knowing his relationship with Zionism, which we talked about to

1425
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 2: a pretty large extent on the ET episode we did

1426
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:13,400
Speaker 2: last year.

1427
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 3: It's not too long ago, so as far as far

1428
01:24:15,479 --> 01:24:18,720
Speaker 3: as we know, I double checked going into this, as

1429
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:21,679
Speaker 3: far as we're recording this right now, which is June

1430
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 3: twenty fifth, twenty twenty five, our conversation that we did

1431
01:24:25,479 --> 01:24:27,840
Speaker 3: in our ET episode is from what I can tell

1432
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:30,720
Speaker 3: still up to date. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's like

1433
01:24:31,400 --> 01:24:35,519
Speaker 3: inextricable from the conversation about him and also the fact

1434
01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:38,599
Speaker 3: that like it's that he's one of the greatest directors

1435
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:40,320
Speaker 3: of all time, and like we have to hold these

1436
01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:44,920
Speaker 3: two things together. Also, I mean, I don't know, no, sorry,

1437
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 3: continue to continue.

1438
01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:48,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the point here is that this movie

1439
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 2: was the biggest movie of all time up until that point,

1440
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 2: more or less, and well you'll never believe this, but

1441
01:24:56,479 --> 01:25:01,360
Speaker 2: it impacted the public perception of sharks. This movie famously

1442
01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:05,519
Speaker 2: made so many people afraid of sharks, afraid of going

1443
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:08,000
Speaker 2: into the water at the beach, also afraid of going

1444
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:11,479
Speaker 2: into lakes and swimming pools, places where sharks would never

1445
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:16,759
Speaker 2: be because of how the shark is represented. In the movie,

1446
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:20,640
Speaker 2: which is you'll never believe this not very accurate. And

1447
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:24,599
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that sharks have not attacked and bitten

1448
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:29,559
Speaker 2: and killed people throughout history. That has happened. Obviously, sharks

1449
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:33,679
Speaker 2: can be dangerous, but again, the way the shark behaves

1450
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:39,200
Speaker 2: in this movie is not accurate. As author Peter Benchley

1451
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:42,519
Speaker 2: put it, because, as we said, he and his partner

1452
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:46,840
Speaker 2: Wendy would go on to become advocates for ocean conservation

1453
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:50,320
Speaker 2: and for the protection of sharks later in their lives.

1454
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:55,240
Speaker 2: Peter Benchley said in two thousand and six, quote, sharks

1455
01:25:55,280 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 2: don't target human beings, and they certainly don't hold grudges.

1456
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:01,920
Speaker 2: There's no such thing as a rogue man eater shark

1457
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 2: with a taste for human flesh. In fact, sharks rarely

1458
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:07,880
Speaker 2: take more than one bite out of people because we're

1459
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:10,800
Speaker 2: so lean and unappetizing to them.

1460
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:15,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Benchley stuff, I think is very, very fascinating,

1461
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:19,000
Speaker 3: and I appreciate, like truly as someone who could not

1462
01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:22,640
Speaker 3: have anticipated his work being as impactful that it was,

1463
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:25,760
Speaker 3: like he was basically writing a pulp novel at the time,

1464
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:32,439
Speaker 3: that he did so much to course correct that I

1465
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:35,360
Speaker 3: think is very admirable, and it seems like the oceanography

1466
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:39,000
Speaker 3: community agrees. And it's also one of those complicated relationships

1467
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:41,840
Speaker 3: where I think it's referenced in the documentary we both

1468
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:46,440
Speaker 3: watched that While yes, there's a lot of there's inaccuracies

1469
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 3: that you're taking us through about how sharks are represented,

1470
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:52,400
Speaker 3: this movie also inspired a lot of future oceanographers, like

1471
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:55,640
Speaker 3: it's very, very interesting.

1472
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 2: That's the benefit of the impact of this movie globally.

1473
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:03,000
Speaker 2: The detriment of the global impact of this movie is

1474
01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:09,160
Speaker 2: that because the shark was presented in such a bloodthirsty,

1475
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:13,799
Speaker 2: vengeful way that you know, great whites are just gonna

1476
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 2: go and kill a whole town of people if they

1477
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:22,080
Speaker 2: aren't exploded. This led to people like shark hunting for

1478
01:27:22,280 --> 01:27:25,640
Speaker 2: sport and trophy and stuff like that. So this is

1479
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:32,160
Speaker 2: from the Smithsonian magazine from twenty twenty two, a piece

1480
01:27:32,360 --> 01:27:38,080
Speaker 2: entitled Steven Spielberg regrets how Jaws impacted real world sharks.

1481
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:44,720
Speaker 2: It says, quote Jaws spearheaded a collective testosterone rush in

1482
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:47,880
Speaker 2: the East coast of the United States, leading thousands to

1483
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:53,080
Speaker 2: hunt sharks for sport. In the years following the film's release.

1484
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:56,600
Speaker 2: The number of large sharks in the waters east of

1485
01:27:56,640 --> 01:28:01,160
Speaker 2: North America declined by about fifty percent unquote, and then

1486
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:06,080
Speaker 2: a couple other stats here, about seventy five percent of

1487
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:10,600
Speaker 2: oceanic shark species are faced with the threat of extinction

1488
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:16,840
Speaker 2: due to I mean to some degree. It's like fisheries overfishing.

1489
01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:20,320
Speaker 2: Some experts are like, well, you know, we can't give

1490
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:23,439
Speaker 2: all the credit to the movie Jaws, Like it's just

1491
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:28,520
Speaker 2: that fishing practices are largely not are horrific.

1492
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:31,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is, I mean, there's yeah, it's like, yeah,

1493
01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:34,360
Speaker 3: it's overly simplistic to suggest it's all because of Jaws,

1494
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 3: but it's not. Not like Jaws is a contributing factor

1495
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:41,559
Speaker 3: for sure. So yeah, basically, in the years that followed

1496
01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:45,200
Speaker 3: this movie coming out, a lot of people just started

1497
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:50,960
Speaker 3: shark hunting. And it's because of the representation of sharks.

1498
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:52,679
Speaker 2: In this movie. It's because not very much was known

1499
01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:58,160
Speaker 2: about them at the time. According to Sharksteward's dot Org,

1500
01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:02,439
Speaker 2: which is an organization that seeks to save endangered sharks

1501
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 2: from overfishing and the shark fin trade. According to them,

1502
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:12,400
Speaker 2: over five hundred species of sharks are not dangerous to humans,

1503
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:16,240
Speaker 2: and only a few species have been involved in serious

1504
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:20,760
Speaker 2: or fatal attacks on humans. But this went ignored and

1505
01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:25,479
Speaker 2: people were just murdering millions of sharks every year right and.

1506
01:29:25,479 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 3: Left, which is horrifying.

1507
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:32,360
Speaker 2: Horrifying, yes, and ignoring the fact that again, sharks play

1508
01:29:32,479 --> 01:29:37,120
Speaker 2: a crucial role in maintaining healthy ocean ecosystems.

1509
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:39,640
Speaker 3: It's the same. I mean, it's like not the same conversation,

1510
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:44,160
Speaker 3: but it's like about bees and like an animal that

1511
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 3: is critical to our ecosystem that it is just very

1512
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:51,719
Speaker 3: socially acceptable to kill because they're viewed as being overly

1513
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:55,479
Speaker 3: aggressive or as pests. Right, thank you for doing that research.

1514
01:29:56,280 --> 01:30:00,280
Speaker 3: I sure. Yeah, it's this movie is like legacy in

1515
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 3: so many different areas is gigantic. I mean even now,

1516
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 3: speaking to like the marketing side of stuff. I was

1517
01:30:08,360 --> 01:30:11,640
Speaker 3: at the grocery store yesterday and there's like Jaws fiftieth

1518
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 3: anniversary wine at the front of Vaughn's what And there

1519
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:18,920
Speaker 3: were people at the front being like, oh my god,

1520
01:30:19,320 --> 01:30:22,559
Speaker 3: Jaws wine, And I'm like, it's still working. It's so

1521
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 3: like people will buy anything with this damn shark on it.

1522
01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:30,200
Speaker 3: Like so literally, there were two women who didn't know

1523
01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:32,280
Speaker 3: each other at the front of Vaughn's being like, I'm

1524
01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:33,479
Speaker 3: getting the Jaws.

1525
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 2: Pino Gregio like, wow, do you think that's what Brody

1526
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:41,839
Speaker 2: pours into his pint glass when he drinks Josta wine?

1527
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:45,840
Speaker 3: I think, I think, I ironically, I think all I think.

1528
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:50,720
Speaker 3: Would Quint fuck with Jaws? Pino Gregio, I think not? No,

1529
01:30:50,880 --> 01:30:54,639
Speaker 3: I think not speaking of Quint. Oh yes, my good

1530
01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:59,519
Speaker 3: pal Quint. So with Quint. I think it's interesting to

1531
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:03,519
Speaker 3: refer to what your referenced earlier in that documentary, which

1532
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:06,639
Speaker 3: if you're interested in the production of Jaws, it's very marketing.

1533
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:10,320
Speaker 3: It's not like revolutionary, but it is free on YouTube

1534
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 3: if you want to watch it. There's also a new

1535
01:31:12,280 --> 01:31:16,760
Speaker 3: fiftieth anniversary documentary coming out July tenth. It's about two

1536
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:19,040
Speaker 3: weeks from now, so I will be watching it. But

1537
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:23,000
Speaker 3: are there stories left untold or does everyone just look

1538
01:31:23,280 --> 01:31:25,040
Speaker 3: ten years older? We don't know. We'll find out.

1539
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:25,880
Speaker 2: We'll find out.

1540
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:28,200
Speaker 3: But in that documentary, I mean, I think it was

1541
01:31:28,280 --> 01:31:33,600
Speaker 3: interesting having the perspective of actual veterans whose experiences were referenced.

1542
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:39,000
Speaker 3: I like, if Robert Shaw's performance was not good, I

1543
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:42,880
Speaker 3: think I would find this character somewhat offensive. But like,

1544
01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:45,200
Speaker 3: and I do think that, you know, there are probably

1545
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:46,920
Speaker 3: cases to be made, but I just think that, like

1546
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:52,479
Speaker 3: he plays Quint with such bravado for sure, but like

1547
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:56,000
Speaker 3: with so much humanity. It is like, for what it is,

1548
01:31:56,280 --> 01:32:01,800
Speaker 3: still a very thoughtful performance, and I I think it's tragic,

1549
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 3: you know how his story ends, But knowing that Hooper

1550
01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:11,000
Speaker 3: was originally supposed to die, I don't necessarily hate that

1551
01:32:11,080 --> 01:32:14,200
Speaker 3: he goes because that just feels like a pretty broad

1552
01:32:14,360 --> 01:32:18,479
Speaker 3: like Moby Deck style reference, right of like he will

1553
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:23,519
Speaker 3: die pursuing this thing that he has projected the trauma

1554
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:27,360
Speaker 3: of his entire life onto, because it's not about the money.

1555
01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:31,679
Speaker 3: For him, it's about and again it's like gets into

1556
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:36,080
Speaker 3: this masculinity thing. It's like it's about accomplishing this thing

1557
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:38,080
Speaker 3: that you can't really get your head because it's for him.

1558
01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:41,120
Speaker 3: It's not about the money. It's not really about protecting people,

1559
01:32:41,400 --> 01:32:43,920
Speaker 3: So like, what is it about? It's like this it's

1560
01:32:44,360 --> 01:32:48,719
Speaker 3: all inside of him, what he's It's about the sharks

1561
01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:51,679
Speaker 3: that ate allegedly ate six hundred of his friends. That's

1562
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:55,120
Speaker 3: what it's about, right, And it's a trauma shark for him,

1563
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:58,880
Speaker 3: and he's consumed by the trauma shark. I don't know.

1564
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:04,479
Speaker 3: I just think story dramaturgically it makes sense. Yeah, and

1565
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:09,040
Speaker 3: I think the performance is like unbelievably great. Yeah.

1566
01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:11,640
Speaker 2: I did not realize that he was like a Shakespearean

1567
01:33:12,160 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 2: actor from much of his career.

1568
01:33:14,439 --> 01:33:17,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he was like a fancy guy. Yeah.

1569
01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:21,920
Speaker 3: He he was like Oscar and Golden Globe nominated and

1570
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:28,000
Speaker 3: like he played such a wide birth of characters. There

1571
01:33:28,120 --> 01:33:31,679
Speaker 3: is this I'll just glaze over it. I watched a

1572
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:36,439
Speaker 3: like short doc about the uh, the rivalry between Richard

1573
01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:39,280
Speaker 3: Dreyfus and Robert Shaw, because there was a big onset

1574
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:41,840
Speaker 3: beef between the two of them, which everyone involved in

1575
01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:44,479
Speaker 3: the movie is confirmed. I think it is kind of

1576
01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:48,240
Speaker 3: funny and sweet that Roy Scheider. They were like, oh,

1577
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:51,559
Speaker 3: he was pretty chill, and he mainly went swimming and

1578
01:33:51,600 --> 01:33:55,200
Speaker 3: sometimes he'd go to the gym. So Roy Scheider was

1579
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:59,400
Speaker 3: minding his own business. But Richard Dreyfus and Robert Shaw,

1580
01:33:59,479 --> 01:34:01,760
Speaker 3: I mean kind of weirdly two sides of the same coin.

1581
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:05,439
Speaker 3: Where Robert Shaw was a later stage actor, he wasn't

1582
01:34:05,479 --> 01:34:08,800
Speaker 3: that old, but he was very like generationally, there was

1583
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:11,360
Speaker 3: a big difference between the two of them. Where Robert

1584
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:14,400
Speaker 3: Shaw was famously a very very hard drinker. He eventually

1585
01:34:14,479 --> 01:34:17,960
Speaker 3: died in his early fifties due to complications from drinking,

1586
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:21,800
Speaker 3: and Richard Dreyfus was kind of like a coked out

1587
01:34:21,880 --> 01:34:26,240
Speaker 3: young star who had a big ego, and Robert Shaw

1588
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:29,160
Speaker 3: wasn't having a bar of it. He like it seems

1589
01:34:29,200 --> 01:34:32,800
Speaker 3: like they, you know, in a very like competitive actory way,

1590
01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:38,080
Speaker 3: had issues with how the other approached acting, how the

1591
01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:42,559
Speaker 3: others approached substance use. Robert Shaw, would you know, say

1592
01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:46,599
Speaker 3: pretty It sounds like Robert Shaw was the antagonist. But

1593
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:49,240
Speaker 3: again in this whole thing where it's like a masculinity

1594
01:34:49,280 --> 01:34:52,840
Speaker 3: story inside of a masculinity story, where you know, Richard

1595
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:55,880
Speaker 3: Dreyfus seemed to dislike Robert Shaw so much that it

1596
01:34:55,880 --> 01:34:58,040
Speaker 3: made his performance better. Like that whole little thing where

1597
01:34:58,040 --> 01:34:59,599
Speaker 3: he does the little thing with his he's like, eh,

1598
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:03,719
Speaker 3: making faces behind Quinn's back. Those were mainly improvised because

1599
01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:07,519
Speaker 3: he didn't like Robert Shaw. And like when he's mumbling about,

1600
01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:09,120
Speaker 3: oh well, if I had to do this anymore, I

1601
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:12,640
Speaker 3: would be shell pissed. This because he didn't like Robert Shaw.

1602
01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:15,559
Speaker 3: So when he's being a little brat, it's because he's

1603
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:19,120
Speaker 3: actually being a little brat because Daddy is not being

1604
01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:24,599
Speaker 3: nice to him. It's a masculinity soup, like no one

1605
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:28,680
Speaker 3: is right in this situation, but it does seem like,

1606
01:35:29,160 --> 01:35:31,559
Speaker 3: you know, for what it's worth. And then I don't

1607
01:35:31,640 --> 01:35:33,439
Speaker 3: we don't need to talk about Richard Dreyfus any further.

1608
01:35:33,479 --> 01:35:36,880
Speaker 3: But with regards to this, as time went on, like

1609
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:40,599
Speaker 3: Richard Dreyfus was like, I'm you know, it ended with

1610
01:35:40,640 --> 01:35:44,000
Speaker 3: like mutual respect, and he like reached out afterwards and

1611
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:47,200
Speaker 3: was like I think he was kind of like what

1612
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:49,840
Speaker 3: happens in Vegas days in Vegas as a way of

1613
01:35:49,880 --> 01:35:52,040
Speaker 3: being like, I treat you like shit on Martha's Vineyard,

1614
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:55,880
Speaker 3: but we're cool, right, And I think Richard Dreyfus was like, yes,

1615
01:35:57,880 --> 01:36:00,559
Speaker 3: so all's well. That ends well there. Unfortunately, the Robert

1616
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:03,960
Speaker 3: Shaw he passed in seventy eight. He died not too

1617
01:36:04,000 --> 01:36:07,000
Speaker 3: long after the making of this movie. But I just

1618
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:10,280
Speaker 3: getting back to quint, I don't really know. I mean,

1619
01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:14,960
Speaker 3: there are so many factors that you're like that I

1620
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:17,520
Speaker 3: feel like would normally paying for me that just don't.

1621
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:22,960
Speaker 2: I It's it was almost one of those instances where

1622
01:36:23,360 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 2: I like forgot to do my job as one of

1623
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:29,040
Speaker 2: the hosts of the Bechdel Cast, because I was just like,

1624
01:36:29,760 --> 01:36:33,639
Speaker 2: I was just so immersed in the story and the characters.

1625
01:36:33,960 --> 01:36:36,720
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't even think I wrote anything down

1626
01:36:36,760 --> 01:36:40,600
Speaker 2: about Quint other than something I already mentioned, which is,

1627
01:36:41,320 --> 01:36:47,719
Speaker 2: you know, the class war between Quint and Hooper, and again,

1628
01:36:48,240 --> 01:36:51,120
Speaker 2: hooper surviving at the end was more of a like

1629
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:57,120
Speaker 2: logistical production choice that they made retroactively rather than something

1630
01:36:57,160 --> 01:36:59,479
Speaker 2: that was written in the script, because otherwise that would

1631
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:03,519
Speaker 2: have like pretty nasty implications of like, well, yeah, the

1632
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:09,400
Speaker 2: rich educated scientist gets to survive and the working class

1633
01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:15,200
Speaker 2: fisherman has to die. But that isn't a narrative choice.

1634
01:37:15,240 --> 01:37:19,200
Speaker 2: It was just because everything kept going wrong with the production.

1635
01:37:19,479 --> 01:37:21,639
Speaker 3: Right, So it's fine. Yeah, I do think it would

1636
01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:24,880
Speaker 3: be more narratively satisfying if Hooper also went down, because

1637
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:28,559
Speaker 3: then it's not like endorsing one philosophy over the other.

1638
01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:31,360
Speaker 3: But knowing that it wasn't intended that way is fine.

1639
01:37:31,400 --> 01:37:35,639
Speaker 3: And Quint also like makes his feelings about Hooper very

1640
01:37:35,640 --> 01:37:37,880
Speaker 3: clear in a way that I think as the audience

1641
01:37:38,120 --> 01:37:41,080
Speaker 3: we don't disagree with even if we like Hooper. Like

1642
01:37:41,280 --> 01:37:43,360
Speaker 3: there's that line where he's like, you wealthy college boys,

1643
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:47,040
Speaker 3: can't admit when you're wrong. He does, I think, you know,

1644
01:37:47,200 --> 01:37:51,960
Speaker 3: in keeping with the generational stuff. There's like one the

1645
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:55,519
Speaker 3: scene where like where Brodie saying goodbye to Ellen, he's

1646
01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:58,240
Speaker 3: kind of just like shouting random misogyst stuff in the background,

1647
01:37:58,280 --> 01:38:02,920
Speaker 3: and you're like, all right, okay, he's kind of just

1648
01:38:03,080 --> 01:38:04,679
Speaker 3: like HM, or we're.

1649
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:07,719
Speaker 2: Singing about Spanish ladies or something.

1650
01:38:07,880 --> 01:38:11,360
Speaker 3: Let's go swimmen with bow legged women. You're like, okay,

1651
01:38:11,920 --> 01:38:14,640
Speaker 3: here's this swim with bow legged women. And for some

1652
01:38:14,760 --> 01:38:17,840
Speaker 3: reason I am not mad at him about that. You

1653
01:38:17,880 --> 01:38:19,880
Speaker 3: get the cage, getting the water sharks and the water like,

1654
01:38:20,080 --> 01:38:23,360
Speaker 3: he's just too like I would let him be misogynist

1655
01:38:23,439 --> 01:38:28,000
Speaker 3: to me because I like him, and after nine years

1656
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:29,400
Speaker 3: should be saying that on the show.

1657
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:33,720
Speaker 2: Well, I just we contain multitudes, yeah, listeners.

1658
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:36,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. And the fact that like he and again I

1659
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:40,200
Speaker 3: understand that it's very over the top, but that like,

1660
01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:45,840
Speaker 3: ultimately he is his like demise is very related to

1661
01:38:46,040 --> 01:38:48,719
Speaker 3: the fact that he has all of this unprocessed trauma.

1662
01:38:49,320 --> 01:38:52,519
Speaker 3: And that is and I don't mean to say like

1663
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:55,519
Speaker 3: and that's the story of every veteran. Obviously they're not

1664
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:58,040
Speaker 3: a monolithm but but that that is a very common

1665
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:02,559
Speaker 3: experience for a veteran instead of seen horrific things and

1666
01:39:03,080 --> 01:39:08,720
Speaker 3: are not given the tools to process them. And it's like,

1667
01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:11,519
Speaker 3: especially the further back you go in history, it's thought

1668
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:16,960
Speaker 3: to be unmasculine and unacceptable to have those traumas manifest

1669
01:39:17,040 --> 01:39:19,559
Speaker 3: in your life. And so what we see with Quint,

1670
01:39:19,800 --> 01:39:23,720
Speaker 3: however cartoonish it can be, is you know, he's not

1671
01:39:23,960 --> 01:39:28,200
Speaker 3: able to get past this, which totally makes sense, but

1672
01:39:28,280 --> 01:39:31,400
Speaker 3: it's like not socially acceptable for him too. I mean

1673
01:39:31,439 --> 01:39:33,080
Speaker 3: he has to be drunk and in the middle of

1674
01:39:33,080 --> 01:39:36,280
Speaker 3: the ocean to even talk about it, and that's really sad.

1675
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:42,000
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah. I honestly found it surprising that the Brodie

1676
01:39:42,080 --> 01:39:47,400
Speaker 2: character was imbued with a fear of the water and

1677
01:39:47,439 --> 01:39:50,600
Speaker 2: a fear of drowning and all that stuff, because I

1678
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:52,600
Speaker 2: think that was added for the movie. It was not

1679
01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:55,880
Speaker 2: in the book. Okay, I mean it makes for good

1680
01:39:55,920 --> 01:39:59,479
Speaker 2: characterization in the sense that you know, someone who has

1681
01:39:59,520 --> 01:40:02,080
Speaker 2: to go out onto the water to complete a task

1682
01:40:02,479 --> 01:40:06,599
Speaker 2: is afraid of the water. That's just like no good storytelling. Yeah,

1683
01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:13,000
Speaker 2: but for a man to have a phobia, that's not masculine.

1684
01:40:13,240 --> 01:40:17,400
Speaker 2: So for a movie from the seventies, to imbue a

1685
01:40:17,479 --> 01:40:20,599
Speaker 2: character who's a man with a fear that he has

1686
01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:24,240
Speaker 2: to face. And granted, this fear does not really manifest

1687
01:40:24,240 --> 01:40:27,439
Speaker 2: in any significant way because it's sort of it goes

1688
01:40:27,439 --> 01:40:30,240
Speaker 2: away mostly and he's just like, I'm on the boat

1689
01:40:30,280 --> 01:40:33,760
Speaker 2: now and I'm actually okay. So it doesn't have a

1690
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:37,080
Speaker 2: huge impact on the story. But I found it kind

1691
01:40:37,120 --> 01:40:41,400
Speaker 2: of interesting. I guess that a man was allowed to

1692
01:40:41,439 --> 01:40:44,680
Speaker 2: be afraid of something and then he communicated that to

1693
01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:48,400
Speaker 2: the people around him. Yeah, I agree again, low bar,

1694
01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:53,920
Speaker 2: but I thought that was interesting. I don't think I

1695
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:59,479
Speaker 2: have really much else to say. Oh, this movie was

1696
01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:04,680
Speaker 2: edited by a woman, Yes, Verna Fields, who is I believe.

1697
01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:10,320
Speaker 3: Every Pete Spielberg collaborator. Am I wrong? I don't. Oh,

1698
01:41:10,439 --> 01:41:13,920
Speaker 3: she worked with Peter Bogdanovich a fair amount. Yeah, George Lucas,

1699
01:41:13,920 --> 01:41:16,800
Speaker 3: Steven Spielberg earlier. And so she did What's Up, Doc,

1700
01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:21,800
Speaker 3: which is Bogdanovich, American Graffiti, Jaws.

1701
01:41:21,640 --> 01:41:24,080
Speaker 2: Paper Moon, handful of others.

1702
01:41:24,439 --> 01:41:27,120
Speaker 3: I mean, that's pretty great. Oh, and then I was like,

1703
01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:29,479
Speaker 3: why does I was like, did they just drop her? No?

1704
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:33,920
Speaker 3: She was hired by Universal as an executive consultant. So

1705
01:41:34,439 --> 01:41:36,280
Speaker 3: we love to see that. We love to see that

1706
01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:39,320
Speaker 3: she did great work and then got promoted. That never

1707
01:41:39,360 --> 01:41:43,280
Speaker 3: happens to women. Right in the seventies, unheard of shout

1708
01:41:43,320 --> 01:41:47,320
Speaker 3: out to Verna Fields, which also, I mean, I don't know,

1709
01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:51,320
Speaker 3: I really appreciated again in a movie, In a movie

1710
01:41:51,360 --> 01:41:54,439
Speaker 3: that takes place quite a bit on the beach, I

1711
01:41:54,560 --> 01:41:56,960
Speaker 3: feel like there I'm not really getting a lot of

1712
01:41:57,000 --> 01:41:59,160
Speaker 3: male gaze out of it outside of that opening sequence,

1713
01:41:59,200 --> 01:42:01,920
Speaker 3: which obviously it's the creature from the Black Lagoon shot,

1714
01:42:01,960 --> 01:42:05,760
Speaker 3: you can't get around it. But in the other beach sequences,

1715
01:42:06,120 --> 01:42:10,800
Speaker 3: I feel like in subsequent beach horror there is almost

1716
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:14,920
Speaker 3: always some male gazy shots of like, oh no, what

1717
01:42:15,000 --> 01:42:19,400
Speaker 3: if this hottie got eaten? Uh? But for the most part,

1718
01:42:19,439 --> 01:42:22,280
Speaker 3: it is just like people on the beach. Yes, and

1719
01:42:22,439 --> 01:42:24,640
Speaker 3: it presented very matter of factly in a way that

1720
01:42:24,640 --> 01:42:27,040
Speaker 3: it just feels like unusual. I don't know.

1721
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:31,759
Speaker 2: That reminds me of a documentary I watched to prepare

1722
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:38,680
Speaker 2: for this episode. It's a Shutter original documentary called Shark's Ploitation.

1723
01:42:39,280 --> 01:42:39,519
Speaker 3: Nice.

1724
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:44,479
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it, and it's basically about all the

1725
01:42:44,760 --> 01:42:51,559
Speaker 2: movies that fall under the shark'sploitation subgenre and if you're thinking, oh, yeah,

1726
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:56,000
Speaker 2: of course, like Jaws, and you know, Sharknado and the

1727
01:42:56,120 --> 01:43:00,559
Speaker 2: Meg and a handful of others. There are hundreds and

1728
01:43:00,760 --> 01:43:06,800
Speaker 2: hundreds of mostly B movies, mostly horrible bad movies. But

1729
01:43:07,439 --> 01:43:14,000
Speaker 2: basically Jaws started this subgenre. Not to say that Hollywood

1730
01:43:14,040 --> 01:43:20,200
Speaker 2: had not been making like horror creature feature movies about

1731
01:43:20,240 --> 01:43:25,479
Speaker 2: monsters lurking in the sea or lurking in lagoons before this,

1732
01:43:25,880 --> 01:43:29,600
Speaker 2: because they had been making movies like this for decades

1733
01:43:29,720 --> 01:43:32,519
Speaker 2: prior to Jaws. But again, none of them had the

1734
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:34,599
Speaker 2: cultural impact that Jaws had.

1735
01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:37,280
Speaker 3: So wild, it's like, but none of them were good

1736
01:43:37,479 --> 01:43:40,479
Speaker 3: like this, like right, why, Yeah, none of them were

1737
01:43:40,520 --> 01:43:41,880
Speaker 3: good for sure.

1738
01:43:42,360 --> 01:43:48,240
Speaker 2: And so Yeah, just examines this subgenre and talks about

1739
01:43:48,280 --> 01:43:51,200
Speaker 2: the tropes that start to emerge in these shark movies,

1740
01:43:51,400 --> 01:43:56,440
Speaker 2: one of them being the exploitation of especially women's bodies.

1741
01:43:57,000 --> 01:44:02,080
Speaker 2: Some of these movies have rather gratuitous, neuted revel in

1742
01:44:02,280 --> 01:44:05,720
Speaker 2: violence against women, stuff like that. But overall, yeah, I

1743
01:44:05,720 --> 01:44:10,040
Speaker 2: thought it was a very interesting documentary that I would recommend.

1744
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:12,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's pretty much all I had.

1745
01:44:13,600 --> 01:44:15,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, the last thing I want to say, it's more

1746
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:18,240
Speaker 3: of a fun fact, but I just thought it was interesting,

1747
01:44:18,320 --> 01:44:22,000
Speaker 3: just in terms of how much this movie changed marketing

1748
01:44:22,160 --> 01:44:26,599
Speaker 3: and how marketing narratives work for art in general, which

1749
01:44:26,640 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 3: is like Steven Spielberg's career alone is like a fascinating

1750
01:44:29,960 --> 01:44:33,040
Speaker 3: look at that. But this book. I don't know how

1751
01:44:33,040 --> 01:44:35,400
Speaker 3: this book came across Steven Spielberg's desk. I think it

1752
01:44:35,720 --> 01:44:39,880
Speaker 3: was mentioned at some point, but I forget in one

1753
01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:43,160
Speaker 3: of the documentaries I watched, but that Jaws was like, Oh,

1754
01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:46,760
Speaker 3: it's this best selling book. Everyone loves it. Well, guess what,

1755
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:49,000
Speaker 3: you know why I was a best selling book because

1756
01:44:49,000 --> 01:44:52,599
Speaker 3: Steven Spielberg and Universal bought hundreds and hundreds of copies

1757
01:44:52,640 --> 01:44:56,160
Speaker 3: of it to send other places to people to be like, hey,

1758
01:44:56,160 --> 01:44:57,560
Speaker 3: what do we think of this book? Because they just

1759
01:44:57,600 --> 01:45:00,599
Speaker 3: wanted to make a movie of it. I just I've that.

1760
01:45:00,680 --> 01:45:03,800
Speaker 3: I feel like it's a victimist crime. We love to

1761
01:45:03,880 --> 01:45:09,040
Speaker 3: see a book selling copies. Me personally, someone should do

1762
01:45:09,080 --> 01:45:11,880
Speaker 3: that to my Oh my god, I was so scandalized.

1763
01:45:11,960 --> 01:45:15,320
Speaker 2: If what should people buy Raw Dog?

1764
01:45:15,560 --> 01:45:17,719
Speaker 3: Oh, they should buy hundreds of copies and just send

1765
01:45:17,720 --> 01:45:19,160
Speaker 3: and be like should we make a movie about this?

1766
01:45:19,320 --> 01:45:22,479
Speaker 3: I would be like, that's so controversial. You shouldn't do

1767
01:45:22,520 --> 01:45:25,280
Speaker 3: that that's dishonest, but that I just thought that was

1768
01:45:25,320 --> 01:45:28,240
Speaker 3: like funny that they, you know, part of the whole

1769
01:45:28,240 --> 01:45:30,880
Speaker 3: idea of like this best selling book, everyone's talking about it.

1770
01:45:31,080 --> 01:45:33,640
Speaker 3: That may not necessarily have been true. It sold a

1771
01:45:33,640 --> 01:45:36,559
Speaker 3: lot of copies, but who was really talking about it.

1772
01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:46,280
Speaker 3: I just think that's funny. Does it pass the buckle test? No?

1773
01:45:45,640 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 2: No, But on our nipple scale, yeah, where we rate

1774
01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:52,519
Speaker 2: the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it

1775
01:45:52,560 --> 01:45:57,919
Speaker 2: through an intersectional feminist lens. I mean again, women largely

1776
01:45:58,240 --> 01:46:02,200
Speaker 2: are not included in the movie. Yeah, it is a

1777
01:46:02,280 --> 01:46:05,400
Speaker 2: very white movie. It's a movie that asks us to

1778
01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:10,080
Speaker 2: root for a cop, so, you know, I just don't know.

1779
01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:12,439
Speaker 2: But the movie does have some interesting things to say

1780
01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:15,680
Speaker 2: about masculinity.

1781
01:46:16,360 --> 01:46:18,480
Speaker 3: Question mark, I'm gonna give it two nipples.

1782
01:46:18,680 --> 01:46:20,200
Speaker 2: Okay, that sounds great.

1783
01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:23,760
Speaker 3: Because for well, I agree with everything you're saying, and

1784
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:26,559
Speaker 3: they're therefore could not in good conscience rank it higher.

1785
01:46:26,560 --> 01:46:28,080
Speaker 3: And maybe I'm ranking it a little higher than I

1786
01:46:28,120 --> 01:46:30,439
Speaker 3: normally would because it's just such a damn good movie.

1787
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:36,679
Speaker 3: I do think that we have two strong performances from

1788
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:38,200
Speaker 3: women in this movie.

1789
01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:40,040
Speaker 2: They're fleeting.

1790
01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:43,160
Speaker 3: The fleeting. What you do see is good, but their

1791
01:46:43,200 --> 01:46:46,519
Speaker 3: their performances are great. I really like Ellen. I wish

1792
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:49,799
Speaker 3: that we had more of her, but I like seeing

1793
01:46:50,360 --> 01:46:53,760
Speaker 3: a just like a full Even though you don't get

1794
01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:55,160
Speaker 3: to spend much time with her, you feel like you

1795
01:46:55,200 --> 01:46:58,200
Speaker 3: know her, which I think is very rare in terms

1796
01:46:58,240 --> 01:47:01,040
Speaker 3: of like quote unquote Mom or what characters they're written

1797
01:47:01,080 --> 01:47:03,320
Speaker 3: in this very one dimensional way, and this character is

1798
01:47:03,400 --> 01:47:05,760
Speaker 3: kind of written in a one dimensional way. But I

1799
01:47:05,800 --> 01:47:08,519
Speaker 3: think like her ability as an actor. Even though it

1800
01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:10,400
Speaker 3: was suggested that it was a NEPO pick because she

1801
01:47:10,479 --> 01:47:14,160
Speaker 3: was married to a producer, Fuck you, Lorrangengery is amazing

1802
01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:17,519
Speaker 3: in this movie, and so if it is NEPO, I

1803
01:47:17,520 --> 01:47:22,200
Speaker 3: don't care. And then Lefierra's performance another fleeting but really

1804
01:47:22,240 --> 01:47:29,000
Speaker 3: impactful performance. She is a legendary stage actor and teacher

1805
01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:32,360
Speaker 3: who just passed away a couple of years ago at

1806
01:47:32,400 --> 01:47:37,160
Speaker 3: the age of ninety one. And also shout out to Chrissy,

1807
01:47:37,240 --> 01:47:41,800
Speaker 3: who is definitely underappreciated by the film. But again, a

1808
01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:46,120
Speaker 3: great performance from a stunt actor, and stunt actors are

1809
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:51,439
Speaker 3: so rarely treated with the respect that they deserve, and.

1810
01:47:51,520 --> 01:47:54,400
Speaker 2: We were just talking about that on the Blue Crush episode.

1811
01:47:54,560 --> 01:47:57,120
Speaker 2: Another movie that takes place at the beach.

1812
01:47:57,280 --> 01:48:00,400
Speaker 3: In the beach, yeah, so I shout out to Susan

1813
01:48:00,439 --> 01:48:04,160
Speaker 3: backline who also passed away somewhat recently. The women we

1814
01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:08,040
Speaker 3: do meet, I really appreciate their at least their performances,

1815
01:48:08,040 --> 01:48:11,160
Speaker 3: if not the writing itself. And I think mainly these

1816
01:48:11,200 --> 01:48:15,200
Speaker 3: two nipples are going towards this movie's ability to explore

1817
01:48:15,720 --> 01:48:22,080
Speaker 3: masculinity and dick measuring contests across the class spectrum. It

1818
01:48:22,160 --> 01:48:25,160
Speaker 3: is a very white movie, it is, I mean, as

1819
01:48:25,240 --> 01:48:28,840
Speaker 3: you said, but I do think it's interesting having these

1820
01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:33,360
Speaker 3: three very different class perspectives, and again, the copaganda of

1821
01:48:33,400 --> 01:48:36,639
Speaker 3: it all, you can't excuse it. But ultimately you do

1822
01:48:36,720 --> 01:48:40,320
Speaker 3: have like someone from the lower class, middle class, and

1823
01:48:40,400 --> 01:48:44,040
Speaker 3: upper class on this boat and they're all working towards

1824
01:48:44,120 --> 01:48:47,160
Speaker 3: the same goal and they have to communicate with each

1825
01:48:47,240 --> 01:48:49,960
Speaker 3: other and it doesn't really work, and it's just it

1826
01:48:50,040 --> 01:48:53,800
Speaker 3: feels like kind of a reality show nightmare experiment, like

1827
01:48:53,840 --> 01:48:58,240
Speaker 3: these three men for world We're I think it's fascinating

1828
01:48:58,200 --> 01:49:00,519
Speaker 3: and I think it's like all of the care characters

1829
01:49:00,640 --> 01:49:06,080
Speaker 3: are treated with respect by the writing in the plot,

1830
01:49:06,439 --> 01:49:11,320
Speaker 3: and I like it too. Nipples and I'm gonna give

1831
01:49:11,479 --> 01:49:16,400
Speaker 3: them to I guess I'm going to give one to

1832
01:49:16,720 --> 01:49:19,719
Speaker 3: Lorraine Gary, and I'm gonna give one to Lee Fierro

1833
01:49:19,920 --> 01:49:22,519
Speaker 3: because they made a meal of what they were given.

1834
01:49:23,680 --> 01:49:26,880
Speaker 2: I agree. I think I'll go down to one and

1835
01:49:26,920 --> 01:49:30,400
Speaker 2: a half. If I'm reading it on a scale of

1836
01:49:31,200 --> 01:49:35,880
Speaker 2: is this movie really good, it gets top marks rating

1837
01:49:35,880 --> 01:49:38,599
Speaker 2: it on the nipple scale. The copaganda thing is what's

1838
01:49:38,600 --> 01:49:45,000
Speaker 2: getting me because like these like gentle tender, like loving

1839
01:49:45,479 --> 01:49:50,720
Speaker 2: father character, sure who we're supposed to be rooting for

1840
01:49:50,760 --> 01:49:54,000
Speaker 2: her the whole time, is a cop and it is

1841
01:49:54,200 --> 01:50:01,640
Speaker 2: effective copaganda, and that's the sneakiest Yeah, so I resent that.

1842
01:50:03,080 --> 01:50:06,799
Speaker 2: But as we keep saying, I like the Brodie character

1843
01:50:07,640 --> 01:50:10,400
Speaker 2: and that's why it's so effective. So I just feel

1844
01:50:10,439 --> 01:50:14,040
Speaker 2: tricked by the movie. And yeah, it's a really good

1845
01:50:14,080 --> 01:50:17,960
Speaker 2: movie and I'm gonna watch it every summer. Yeah, so

1846
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:21,080
Speaker 2: one and a half nipples and I'll give them to

1847
01:50:21,479 --> 01:50:24,360
Speaker 2: Bruce the Shark the mechanical.

1848
01:50:25,479 --> 01:50:29,240
Speaker 3: Also fun that they ended up naming the Finding Nemo

1849
01:50:29,360 --> 01:50:35,480
Speaker 3: Shark after this shark. Cute shark fans will know anyways.

1850
01:50:36,280 --> 01:50:40,599
Speaker 3: So that's our Jaws episode, folks. I really love watching

1851
01:50:40,600 --> 01:50:43,519
Speaker 3: this movie. Yeah, I'm a I'm a simple person. I

1852
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:46,080
Speaker 3: see Jaws, I say, hey, I like that movie.

1853
01:50:46,120 --> 01:50:46,679
Speaker 2: I'm smiling.

1854
01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:49,920
Speaker 3: So here's here's to you, listener. We're pouring out a

1855
01:50:49,920 --> 01:50:56,599
Speaker 3: class of Jaws Pedo Grisio to you and and with that,

1856
01:50:56,640 --> 01:50:59,400
Speaker 3: thank you for thank you for listening. This is pretty

1857
01:50:59,400 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 3: similar if you're not a member of our Matreon, our

1858
01:51:02,840 --> 01:51:06,519
Speaker 3: patriot aka Matreon. These are episodes that are mainly just

1859
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:09,880
Speaker 3: Caitlin and myself having fun talking about a movie that

1860
01:51:09,920 --> 01:51:13,560
Speaker 3: you very often will request. So if you enjoyed the

1861
01:51:14,320 --> 01:51:17,120
Speaker 3: vibe of this, a little bit Looser, a little silly

1862
01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:20,519
Speaker 3: joyin our Matreon, it's five dollars a month, and it

1863
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:23,920
Speaker 3: gets you access to two new episodes every month on

1864
01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:26,400
Speaker 3: a theme that you will generally choose and sometimes we

1865
01:51:26,439 --> 01:51:28,479
Speaker 3: will impose our will and we will choose it. And

1866
01:51:28,560 --> 01:51:33,840
Speaker 3: Casper is going wild right now, being so cute. He's

1867
01:51:33,920 --> 01:51:36,800
Speaker 3: being a real cudler. He's saying hi, mother, and he's

1868
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:40,679
Speaker 3: saying Hi Casper. But yeah, and then access to almost

1869
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:42,400
Speaker 3: two hundred back episodes.

1870
01:51:43,040 --> 01:51:45,839
Speaker 2: It sounds like you're saying, we're gonna need a bigger

1871
01:51:46,200 --> 01:51:47,400
Speaker 2: Matreon subscription.

1872
01:51:47,760 --> 01:51:52,240
Speaker 3: We're gonna need a bigger Matreon subscription. Just kidding. It'll

1873
01:51:52,240 --> 01:51:54,360
Speaker 3: always be five dollars, but we could just use more

1874
01:51:54,400 --> 01:51:55,320
Speaker 3: people having it.

1875
01:51:55,400 --> 01:51:56,160
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I mean.

1876
01:51:56,280 --> 01:51:57,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

1877
01:51:57,680 --> 01:52:01,360
Speaker 2: Oh, and also, we haven't actually announced at the time

1878
01:52:01,360 --> 01:52:03,680
Speaker 2: of this recording, but maybe if you like checked our

1879
01:52:04,000 --> 01:52:07,040
Speaker 2: link tree, we're going on tour. We're going on tour

1880
01:52:07,439 --> 01:52:11,439
Speaker 2: and we're going to the Midwest, and you'll see a

1881
01:52:11,439 --> 01:52:15,240
Speaker 2: few links already to some shows that we're doing at

1882
01:52:15,280 --> 01:52:19,160
Speaker 2: the end of August slash early September. Be on the

1883
01:52:19,160 --> 01:52:24,959
Speaker 2: lookout for a more official announcement and more news about

1884
01:52:25,280 --> 01:52:28,519
Speaker 2: that tour. But just give me a little a little

1885
01:52:29,160 --> 01:52:32,520
Speaker 2: shark finn if you will, a little to tease.

1886
01:52:33,200 --> 01:52:37,080
Speaker 3: Us heading to Chicago. We love you so much, Thank

1887
01:52:37,120 --> 01:52:39,240
Speaker 3: you for listening, and we will be back next week

1888
01:52:39,280 --> 01:52:42,080
Speaker 3: with another brand new episode. Bye bye.

1889
01:52:45,760 --> 01:52:49,040
Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1890
01:52:49,120 --> 01:52:53,000
Speaker 2: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1891
01:52:53,080 --> 01:52:56,280
Speaker 2: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1892
01:52:56,400 --> 01:53:00,360
Speaker 2: Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our low go and

1893
01:53:00,479 --> 01:53:03,800
Speaker 2: merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special thanks

1894
01:53:03,800 --> 01:53:07,960
Speaker 2: to Aristotle Assevedo. For more information about the podcast, please

1895
01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:09,880
Speaker 2: visit Linktree slash bechtelcast