1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Possible Now Stories of Possibilities, the podcast where 2 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: we dive into the leadership frameworks, bold ideas, and personal 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: stories shaping the future of marketing, technology and leadership. He said, 4 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: in advertising, the most dangerous thing is making a mistake. 5 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: It's being ignored. That belief sits at the heart of 6 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: one of the most creative agencies in the world today, 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: Mischief at No Fixed Address, built on a radical philosophy. 8 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 1: We are here to make a stir. Indifference is the enemy, 9 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: Kindness is not weakness, and we are a safe place 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: for dangerous ideas. Welcome to Possible Now Stories of Possibilities, 11 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: the podcast where we explore bold ideas, leadership philosophies, and 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: personal stories reshaping marketing, technology and culture. In this episode, 13 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: I have the privilege of sitting down with someone I've 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: admired from a far but never spoken to until now, 15 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: which makes this conversation especially exciting because you will hear 16 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: our very first exchange, unfiltered and unscripted. My guest is 17 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: Greg Hahn, co founder and chief creative officer of Mischief. 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: In just five years, Mischief has gone from startup to 19 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: being named at AGES Global Agency of the Year, Fast 20 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: Company's world's most Innovative aid Agency and Adweeks Agency of 21 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,639 Speaker 1: the Year. Greg has spent his career not just making ads, 22 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: but making statements. From Bbdo to Mischief, He's proven that 23 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: creativity is most powerful when it's fearless, deeply human, and 24 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: impossible to ignore. So let's dive into this very first 25 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: conversation and explore how Greg sees the future of creativity, 26 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: what it takes to build an agency that refuses to 27 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: be put in a box, and why the boldest leaders 28 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: today are the ones unafraid to meaw in a world 29 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: that expects them to bark. Greg, a very warm welcome 30 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: and thank you for joining us. 31 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. That was like one of 32 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: the nicest introductions I've had, so thank you for that. 33 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 2: And also you've set us up for like everybody listening 34 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: to our first date. So this should be really fun, 35 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: if not awkward. 36 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: But that's why I'm so excited. And as I said, 37 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: that's the first time we meet and speak, which is 38 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: great and you know, because I get to discover your 39 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: thinking live right with our audience listening to it. So 40 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: before we get into your journey, let me start by 41 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: flipping that philosophy. I've mentioned back to you. What is 42 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: one thing about Greg Hound that would completely surprise people 43 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: who only know you as the feelings, creative mind behind mischief. 44 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: Maybe you're more conservative than people would think on the inside. 45 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: I don't know. It's hard for me. I'm like the 46 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,399 Speaker 2: last person to answer this question because I don't really 47 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 2: know what other people think of me. You know, I'm 48 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: the least aware of that kind of thing. But yeah, 49 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 2: I think if it's anything, it's probably I personally am 50 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: a little bit more conservative. And it's like my partners 51 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: at Offen and push me on the business side of like, 52 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 2: let's go for this, let's do this, I mean creativity 53 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: and all that other kind of stuff. It's not like that, 54 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 2: But in my personal life I operate from a place 55 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 2: of like, you know, play it safe, but when it 56 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 2: comes to creativity and things like that, I go fall out. 57 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: Good good, All right, So let's talk about miss DNA 58 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: and philosophy and why you did what you did. So 59 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: on your homepage you reference Big Mama Thorne's recording of 60 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: Hound Dog. It's a great story and by the way, 61 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: I recommend people to go to your side anyway, because 62 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: it's a delight you right to see your website and 63 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: what you did there. But the point being made is 64 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: something like in a song about a dog, we meaw 65 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: so mischief miows. What does it mean? What does meawing 66 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: mean in today's culture? 67 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it stems from that story and you 68 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: can read it on our website about one of the 69 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: backup singers in that song Houndog. The original recording of 70 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 2: Big Mom. Norton did a recording way back in Gusta 71 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: twenties and at the end of it you can hear 72 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: one of the musicians barking. You know, it's like a 73 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: kind of a novelty at the end. And when he 74 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 2: was asked about it, he said to the reporter, you know, 75 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: like I wanted to meow, but that was too hip 76 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 2: for them, and I thought, to meow at the end 77 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: of a song called hound Dog is like brilliant and 78 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: edgy and has backstory. The bark is creative, but it's 79 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 2: not revolutionary, unexpected. If you're doing something creative, it's kind 80 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 2: of what you would do at the song hound Dog. 81 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 2: But what happens is like when people see something that's 82 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 2: just creative enough to be acceptable but still put a 83 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 2: smile on your face. They settle for that, whereas that mischief, 84 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 2: we want to go for the meaw, we want to 85 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 2: do the thing that just is unexpected. It has a 86 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 2: little bit of a story edge and stays with you 87 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: long after the music has left. 88 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: So it's all about creativity. When we talk about creativity 89 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: on our case and how can we bring it alive 90 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: at an event like possible Immed, do you think about, okay, 91 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: the creative work you know agencies normally, do you can 92 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: think about creativity today? Is also you know, everything which 93 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: happens in the creative to me, you know influences and creators, 94 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: et cetera. How would you define creativity in today's world 95 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: and therefore meowing instead of barking right to provide something 96 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: unexpected or the next level of creativity? How would you 97 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: define this? 98 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 2: I mean this thing I love about creativity and apply 99 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 2: to you know what we do is it's all about 100 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 2: solving problems. So to us we always say like it's 101 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: perfectly obvious, but only after we do it. So it 102 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 2: should be one of these things that both surprises you 103 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: and then seems completely inevitable at the same time. So 104 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 2: you know, when you see a solution from mistrip. It 105 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 2: should be like, where the fuck did they come up 106 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 2: with that? And of course you know, like it makes 107 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 2: so much sense after you see it. So it's this 108 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: combination of sort of inevitability and complete surprise. At the 109 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 2: same time, you also said that indifference is an enemy. 110 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: What's harder greg getting people to love what you make 111 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: or getting them to hate it instead of ignoring this, 112 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: I mean ignoring is the biggest threat, right. You know, 113 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 1: you want attention in some way. Is today's world always 114 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: between just love it or hate it? Is there nothing 115 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: more in between? 116 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 2: I think you could do something that most people just 117 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: find it entertaining and amusing. You know, in today's culture, 118 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 2: there's always going to be somebody that finds something wrong 119 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 2: with something, which is fine, like just to find your audience, 120 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 2: know who you're going for. But I think that to 121 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: us playing it safe and doing something that you know, 122 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 2: you spend a lot of money on and is fine, 123 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: like nobody cares much about it, but it didn't upset anybody, 124 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 2: but didn't engage anybody either, that to us is much 125 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: more risky. So we would like to do something and 126 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 2: again we always start with a strategy, so we don't 127 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 2: just do anything for the shock value and because we 128 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 2: think it will get a lot of attention. We do 129 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 2: it because it will get the right kind of attention 130 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: and leave you with the impression we wanted. 131 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: To leave you also said kindness is not weakness. Would 132 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: I love? How do you keep kindness alive in that 133 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: industry built on rustless pictures and budgets and awards. I mean, 134 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: I would say our industries not the kindest one in 135 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, you'd be surprised, you know. 136 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: I did find, especially when I was laid off from 137 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 2: BBDO and kind of just the number of people that 138 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 2: reach out for me and the support we got, and 139 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: even when launching, the support we got. But I get it. 140 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: It's competitive, and you know, can get very cutthroat and 141 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 2: the pressure is off and high. But we try to 142 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 2: step outside of all that and just approach everything with 143 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: a bit of empathy and you know, trying to understand 144 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: what other people are going through before you react. And 145 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: I think that we've noticed that in an environment where 146 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 2: fear is removed from the air, you just produce a 147 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 2: lot more and you have a lot more fun and 148 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: the ideas are a lot more expansive. 149 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: What would your clients say, or the industry at launch, 150 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: what would they miss most if Mischief disappeared tomorrow. So 151 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: if you're no longer there with your agency, I mean, 152 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: then what must be a huge gap in the industry. 153 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: What would they say? What would they miss? 154 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: They miss all these posts? No, all these are all 155 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: these are our head of development and very active and 156 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 2: very great on social you know. I think what we 157 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 2: try to stand for is a way to show that 158 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 2: the industry that you can have fun, create a place 159 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: that people like to work and do the best work 160 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 2: of your life. So I felt that was really missing 161 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: when I was looking for the next place, felt like 162 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 2: nobody was having fun and everyone was operating for this 163 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: place of fear. So what Mischief was set out to 164 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: do is operate from a place that always plays offense 165 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 2: and never defense and put things out in the world 166 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: that people enjoy and not try to do stuff that 167 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: feel safe. 168 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: So when you found it Mischief, let's talk about the 169 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: agency model, you know, which is well, we all know 170 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: about the big networks and the private agencies, and in 171 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: earlier days it was always called a media agency or 172 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: creative agency or full service agency. How do you see Mischief? 173 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: Is it still an agency or doesn't matter for you, right, 174 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: do you want to get rid of all these categories? 175 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know why people are so adverse 176 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 2: to the term ad agency. It is kind of what 177 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 2: we do, but we do do more than that. We're 178 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 2: a creative solutions company, right, and part of what we 179 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 2: do is advertising, and that's a big part of what 180 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: we do. But we also do like we like to 181 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 2: get involved in solving business problems. And sometimes that's an 182 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 2: ad sometimes just you know, the pricing, sometimes just where 183 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: you are in the aisles. It's just you know, finding 184 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 2: ways upstream to solve big business problems. And we also, 185 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: you know, have a studio, we have media, so it 186 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 2: all works together as a creative company that uses creativity 187 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 2: to solve business problems. 188 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: And you offer the whole value chain, right, you offer 189 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: from media buying in US, media buying two production correct. 190 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have media production and Mischief as 191 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 2: an entity. 192 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: And that's obviously the only way how you believe you 193 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: can provide this excellent service, right to do at the end, 194 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 1: everything if a kind one. 195 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 2: No, no, no, we work with other partners as well. 196 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: In fact, you know it's studio and media are recent 197 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: like for the first five years four and a half 198 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 2: years we operated without those, but we just opened those 199 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 2: up because we thought that those were areas that again, 200 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: we could have a bigger impact on the business if 201 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: we all worked tightly. But we still work with other 202 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 2: media companies and other pr and you know, partner with 203 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 2: other agencies as far as like in terms and you know, 204 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: in house and things like that. 205 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: Let's talk about a term you know which is heavily 206 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: used recently. It's authenticity or being authentic. I hear this 207 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: quite often, Like you know in our world, in the 208 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: WENT world, you know, everybody wants to provide experiences. That's 209 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: another term you know, which is heavily used. And because 210 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: it's so heavily used, I feel sometimes it loses its power. 211 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: So being authentic, what does it mean for you? And 212 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: what's your BS detector test? When a client claims they 213 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: are ready for authenticity? 214 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it's it's personal. But for me, 215 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: authenticity you can just feel it. There's a vibration that 216 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 2: happens when you're being in authentic, and there's a different 217 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 2: one that happens when you're being authentic. So a lot 218 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 2: of what we do is feeling you know, for humans. 219 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 2: So you know, we will never try to go into 220 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 2: a relationship where we just feel like the client's not authentic, 221 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 2: because if you don't have the truth, then you've got 222 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: nothing to build off of. Sooner or later you will 223 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: be found out. It'll ring hollow whatever you're doing. So 224 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 2: I think authenticity is a word that gets overplayed, but 225 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 2: it's also really important. 226 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: I agree. I agree. Is there a perfect or an 227 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: ideal advertiser who comes to you, you know? Is it 228 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: somebody who is completely open and has no idea and 229 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: leave everything with yours? Is it a client, you know 230 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: who comes with a clear brief? What do you prefer? 231 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 2: I think we'd like to First of all, we don't 232 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: judge by category or by brand or anything like that. 233 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: Whether we take on a client, it's always about the 234 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: people sitting across the table, So it comes to that, 235 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: and I think we work both ways. I feel if 236 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: the client's open to us coming in from scratching just 237 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 2: saying here's a playing piece of paper, we don't know 238 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 2: where to begin, we'll do that, and I think that's great. 239 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: We also like to have clients that know what they 240 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 2: want and you know, we're here to help shape that. 241 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 2: I think the important thing is that collaboration, Like if 242 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 2: we open to us working with them either way. What 243 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 2: we don't like is like we have this creative idea 244 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: we want you guys to help execute. That's just not 245 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 2: our game. Hey. 246 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: One interesting thing definitely something we have in common, right, 247 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: which you may not know. It's you founded Mischief obviously 248 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: during the pandemic at the beginning of the pandemic in 249 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, while I did it in twenty one, which 250 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: was if I remember right, more at the end of 251 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: the pandemic, at least in the US. I remember to 252 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: be in New York. You know that my funding for 253 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: the company and then founded this at the end of 254 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: twenty one. I founded my previous business back in two 255 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: thousand and eight during the finance crisis. So why I'm 256 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: saying this is I like that because it feels for 257 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: me that doing this at a time where others hesitate 258 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: that doing things like that, you're on the winning side. 259 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: You know, when you survive, you're definitely at the forefront 260 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: of what you do. Do you think that timing for 261 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: you was genius or was it insanity or was it both? 262 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 2: In hindsight, it was genius, and I think we kind 263 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 2: of felt at the time because what I was noticing 264 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 2: was that people were just open to whatever is next. 265 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 2: It was such a dramatic shift in so many things 266 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 2: in our lives that we were in a period where 267 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 2: exploration and the invention were kind of necessary and also 268 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: there's a willingness to try stuff. So when we came on, 269 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 2: it was just kind of like, this is a time 270 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: we're not stuck on the past, but we can kind 271 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 2: of build the future and figure out what new ways 272 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 2: of working are and become a company that is not 273 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: burdened by that's the way we've always done it, you know, 274 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: Like there's a phrase we never used, and it's because 275 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 2: we hadn't done it. 276 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: When you founded this, you decided to go for the 277 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 1: CCO title or our chief creative officer and set up 278 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: CEO of president, which well, in some cases, you know, 279 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: founders take this title. What was the reason behind and 280 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: what was the erection from the team or from clients? 281 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't matter for them. 282 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. I think for me personally, I never 283 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: I never even entertained the idea. I know what I'm 284 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 2: good at, and i know what I'm not good at. 285 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 2: One thing I'm not good at is all the nuts 286 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 2: and bolts of running a business. I just can't think 287 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 2: that way. So you know, my goal is always to 288 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 2: find when you endeavor in anything, it's it's to find 289 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 2: people that are really good at the things you're not 290 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 2: in partner with them. And I found that and Carry 291 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 2: McKibben and Dave Lefond who's was my founding partner in 292 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 2: Sir d Rancour who's the other founding partner, and Carrie 293 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 2: is our president. 294 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: So as a leader of that company and for the 295 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: whole team and your clients, etc. It's quite often you 296 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: you do it in a positive way and you say 297 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: yes to a lot of things and guide like this, 298 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: what's the most important thing you say no to as 299 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: a leader and what does that discipline unlock? 300 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 2: Then one of our you know, many many creatives on 301 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 2: our website, and I think it's really important is this 302 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: idea that what we say yes to shapes us, in 303 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: what we say no to defines us. We say no 304 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 2: to a lot and what I mean by that is 305 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 2: that draws the hard lines. That's that's where you know 306 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 2: you're gonna, you know, stand for something or not or 307 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 2: what kind of person, kind of agency you want to be. 308 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: I think we say no to a lot of things 309 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 2: that we feel are going to change the agency in 310 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 2: a way we don't all lot with or it just 311 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: don't seem like it don't seem right for us. So 312 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 2: you know, we've backed out of a lot of you know, 313 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 2: we've said no to a lot of big money pitches 314 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 2: because we just don't feel it's right for us or 315 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 2: we're not seeing the same way with the client. And 316 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: I think that's a really important thing to do as 317 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: an agency, is to determine whether the client is right 318 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 2: for you, not just whether you're right for the client. 319 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, when do you know this? And normally you know 320 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: after the first meeting, already after the foot. 321 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: Sometimes yes, yeah, sometimes I think you know right away 322 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 2: if they're right for you. It might take a couple 323 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: of times to kind of figure out like maybe this 324 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 2: wouldn't be the best fit. And I think it's just 325 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: it's never contentious, it's it's more just as partners, we're 326 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: going to agree, like this would not be the best partnership. 327 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 2: But doesn't mean, you know, we can't have relationships some 328 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 2: other way, Like doesn't mean we're not friends or whatever. 329 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: But I think that just being open and honest with people. 330 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 2: I know a lot of agencies, and I know there's 331 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 2: a lot of pressure on holding companies just take whatever 332 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 2: comes in the door and worry about the rest later. 333 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: That's just not been our model. 334 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: It's like hiring the best people you know who would 335 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: fit perfectly well to your own philosophy and your company's philosophy. 336 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: What would be the question you would ask somebody who 337 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: wants to get on board at your agency? Is there 338 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: one question you always ask you to find out if 339 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: this is the right fit for you. 340 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 2: I don't think it's one question, but I think there's 341 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: traits we look for. One is you know, again, there's empathy, 342 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: there's curiosity and a great understanding of human behavior and people. 343 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 2: In our great department, we hire very strategic, creative thinkers. 344 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 2: In our strategy department, it's the opposite. We hire a 345 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 2: very creative strategists, you know, knowing that their core competency 346 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: is still going to be strategy or creative. But we 347 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: like people that don't just focus on their one thing, 348 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 2: that kind of can work with everybody and collaborations big. 349 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 2: And we have this thought that you know, that you 350 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 2: have to put your ego aside in every conversation. It's 351 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 2: not about who's right, it's about what's right. And we 352 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 2: try to just focus all conversations like let's make the 353 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: work better, not care about territory or anything like that. 354 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: I like it very much, So we touch base a 355 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: bit on a creativity. Let's talk about this a bit more, 356 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: but also the future. When you say, you know, mischief 357 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: is a safe place for dangerous ideas, what do you 358 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: mean by that? And what's the most dangerous idea you've 359 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: ever killed? And do you regret it looking back? You know, 360 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: for the last five years, was there any situation you know, 361 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: where you believe that's not the right thing, it's too dangerous, maybe, 362 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: but then you regret it. 363 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: M that's a tough question. I don't know. Like, if 364 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 2: we think it's right, we'll bring it. Like, I don't 365 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 2: know if there's anything even if we know that it's 366 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 2: gonna be a tough sell, it probably not can buy it. 367 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 2: At least it stretches the possibilities a bit. You know, 368 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 2: we have this philosophy that most of the good stuff 369 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 2: in dex is at the back in agencies, and it's 370 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 2: always the extra credit stuff, and our feeling is like 371 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 2: that should be the front of stuff, because that's where 372 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 2: the big problems are often solved, and it gets ignored 373 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: and unders played in most big agencies because they're afraid 374 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 2: to present that. So our feeling is like, let's do 375 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 2: what we think is right for the client and don't 376 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 2: worry about if it's gonna make for a bad meeting 377 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: or if they're going to get upset for showing us, 378 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 2: because if they do, then you know, it's not a 379 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 2: great relationship. 380 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: Looking forward a couple of years, do you see a 381 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: kind of general trend based on, of course, the heavy 382 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: tech involvement and influence in our world. Do you see 383 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: a trend fully kind of advertising and media business which 384 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: you would call, you know, it's the area of provocation 385 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: or anything similar like this. Do you see it? You know, 386 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: could you put it into a bucket like this or 387 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: do you think no? Everything is so dramatically changing every 388 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: day that you know there is exactly a big mistake 389 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: to look into this like this. You have to be 390 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: prepared for new things every morning you wake up. 391 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 2: I think it's both. I think you have to be 392 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 2: prepared for new things every morning wake up but you 393 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 2: also have a core center that doesn't change. And again 394 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 2: that's for us, that's doing work that people care about, 395 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,719 Speaker 2: and that's based on human truth. As long as your 396 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: core values don't change. And then again, you know, those 397 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 2: are the things we talked about that are listening on 398 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: our website. Those will never change, but how we express them, 399 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 2: in how we interact with people in communication constantly change. 400 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: So if mischief we're no longer known as the agency 401 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: of the Year because you want a lot of these titles, 402 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,479 Speaker 1: which is great, but instead it would be called the 403 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: Movement of a decade. 404 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 2: Oh I like that, Yeah, I. 405 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: Do exactly what would now, not having a goal, what 406 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: would you have done differently to earn that or what 407 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: else do you need to do to get to this point? 408 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 2: I think we have to go way outside the world 409 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: of advertising and communication and like to something that affects 410 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 2: people's lives in a bigger way. I mean, I think 411 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 2: right now we're in such an interesting chaotic turmoil as 412 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 2: far as like just a mentality in the way we're 413 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 2: so divided in the way we can't trust anything and 414 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 2: we're so eager to take on the other side. If 415 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 2: we could do a movement where we kind of bring 416 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: people together. That would be good, trying to use our 417 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 2: skills in a way that benefits society as a whole 418 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 2: in the future as a whole, because I do think, 419 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 2: you know, the future of humanity is kind of reliant 420 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: on us getting along with each other, and it just 421 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 2: seems like the more we move on, the further along 422 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 2: we get divided. 423 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: I would call it a task, right, you know, that's 424 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: why not why not doing this and maybe this conversation 425 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 1: here today and when people listening to this and I. 426 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 2: Would love that that should be a movement we should 427 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 2: all focus on. I mean, we've got some of the 428 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 2: most brilliant minds in the world listening to your podcasts, 429 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 2: and I'm not just sucking up to you all, but 430 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 2: you are, and we are in charge of solving really interesting, 431 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 2: difficult problems. If we could somehow put our minds together 432 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 2: and create something that is bigger than all of us, 433 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 2: that would benefit society and just change the mentality, because 434 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: I believe if we got here through communications and social 435 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 2: media and mass media, I think we can get out 436 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 2: of it that way. 437 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: I agree. So also, this statement is alves to be 438 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: heard on the main stage of every conference, So let's 439 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: make it happen. So for the future. 440 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that movement. Let this is inspiring. We 441 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,959 Speaker 2: should have something that's good. But if you wouldn't be 442 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: in the advertising world, where would your mischief show up? Instead? 443 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 2: Be in the politics? 444 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: Would it be in the comedy corner or would you 445 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: be to know where would you end up instead? 446 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 2: Well, if you're to ask a sixteen year old me, 447 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 2: I said I would be the next Eddie van Halen. 448 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 2: I was a big guitar frand but then, like later 449 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 2: and later, I soon realized like the world was perfectly 450 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 2: happy with that Eddie van Halen had already had it. 451 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 2: It didn't need it. I don't so I got out 452 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 2: of music, But I think now I've always had like 453 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 2: this fascination with comedy. I don't think I would ever perform, 454 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 2: That's just not me. But I would like to write 455 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 2: for like Saturday and Live or The Night Show or 456 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 2: something like that. Would I just think would be the 457 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 2: funnest job of the world. 458 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: One final question, especially for the younger ones who are 459 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: listening and wants to be you know, or are already 460 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,479 Speaker 1: in the creative kind of business. For the young creative listening, 461 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 1: right now and who feels pressure to play it safe. 462 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: Right Quite often you told, hey, make sure you save 463 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: and do the youth of stuff. What's one act of 464 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: mischief they can start with tomorrow. What's your advice for them? 465 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 2: Well, I posted this thought I saw that I think 466 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 2: is really great and I think it would apply to 467 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 2: anybody who's in marketing, whether it's for your brand or 468 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 2: for yourself. And it's be known before you are needed. 469 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 2: And I think the idea is that is like, you 470 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 2: have so many tools. This is towards like a young 471 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 2: creative trying to get it. You have so many tools 472 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 2: at your disposal right now to become famous. Treat yourself 473 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 2: as a brand right now, and become famous, be on 474 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: the radar on every creative director because they saw you 475 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 2: in their fee, because someone sent the thing you did. 476 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 2: You'll automatically break through. Because I think that somebody will 477 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 2: rely on traditional portfolios and you know, crative directors are 478 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 2: flooded with those and there's some great stuff, but it's 479 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 2: just really hard to break through that way. So treat 480 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 2: yourself as the marketing problem, the brand, and how do 481 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 2: you break through and create something that everybody wants to 482 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 2: pass on? And get your name out there. 483 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you that what's a great advice. Thank 484 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: you so much. Hey Greg, I had a lot of fun. 485 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: You know that wasn't inspiring first conversation with you, and 486 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: thank you for that. And based on what you've said, 487 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: I can definitely say that miss story is it proved 488 00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: that when you fight indifference, when you embrace authenticity and 489 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 1: create a safe place for dangerous ideas like you described, 490 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: you can truly reshap your industry. And that's what you do. 491 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 1: Thank you for bringing that fearless mindset to possible. Now, 492 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: thanks for being with us. 493 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you. This is a great conversation and let's 494 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 2: change the world absolutely. 495 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: And to everyone listening, as I said before, go to 496 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: mis Your's website. You know it's an exciting journey. Spend 497 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: some time on it and get to know mischiefs and 498 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: what they're doing, and keep pushing boundaries, keep asking both 499 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: questions and keep turning possibilities into reality. I see you soon. 500 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Thanks for tuning in everyone. Once again, 501 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Christian Moher. If you have a question 502 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: or suggestion to me, reach out send me the m 503 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: on LinkedIn. If you're courious, to learn more about Possible, 504 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: sign up for our newsletter, or if you want to 505 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: join us at the Possible Show in Miami, visit possibleevent 506 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: dot com. Possible Now is a co production of iHeartMedia 507 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: and Possible. Our executive producers are Ryan Marx and Yasmin Melendez. 508 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,479 Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Meredith Barnes. Special thanks to Colleen 509 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: Lawrence Mack from our programming team. Our theme music is 510 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: composed by Anthony Ketticoli. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit 511 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 512 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: your favorite shows