WEBVTT - A Balance of Being and Doing: Jay Shetty on Purpose in Work, Life, and Love 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:07.960 Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question. 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.800 I love origin stories, the way our lives begin shape, 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:19.680 so much about how they play out and how we 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.920 see the world and the world sees us. My guest today, Jayshetti, 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:28.000 has an origin story that in some ways seems predestined. 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:32.560 Business student meets monk, leaves business to become a monk. Monk, 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.960 finds social media and becomes a spiritual teacher to the world. 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.320 It almost sounds like a movie, right, But as you'll 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:43.520 hear in our conversation, the waters of Jayshetti run deep. 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.280 He rejects the term guru, but it's clear he's becoming 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.800 a guiding light of sorts to many. His enterprise is 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:55.520 best spanning podcasts. His is called on Purpose to a 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.200 life coaching training company. Now, some of you may have 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:03.600 seen that Shechetty's reception hasn't been universally warm. There was 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.200 a Guardian piece about a month back before Jay and 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:10.800 I spoke that scrutinized aspects of his business and his story. 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:15.119 His reps then responded refuting parts of the article they 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:17.959 say are untrue. Now we're not going to litigate the 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:21.440 back and forth of it here, but What is irrefutable 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.320 is Ja Shetty has struck a chord and is providing 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:34.520 millions of listeners with advice and observations they seem hungry for. Jay. 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:36.479 I'm so happy to view with you. 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:38.560 I'm happy to be with you. Thank you so much 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:39.440 for the opportunity. 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.080 You know, I was reading about you, Jay, I know 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.280 about you already, but to refresh my memory and to 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.440 learn new things, I was doing some research and I've 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.920 decided that dose at case man has nothing on you. 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.360 You are the most interesting man in the world, Jay Shetty. 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.000 I'm not sure about that, but I'll I take that 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:58.480 as a wonderful complement from you. 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:02.240 It is, I mean, and you have had such a rich, 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.560 diverse life. And I wanted to kind of go back 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.080 to the beginning because I love to discuss people's origin 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.519 stories because I feel like we're shaped so much by 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.880 our childhoods and our parents. And you grew up in 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.040 London in a very middle class family. I know you 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.440 were bullied in school. How would you describe your childhood 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:23.120 in general? 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.720 You know what's really interesting, Katie, is that your own 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.000 childhood is so normal to you that the word that 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.799 comes to mind immediately is normal, but that doesn't mean 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.280 a lot because we all look at everything through our 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.360 own lenses normal, And if I had to define it 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.160 or describe it, I'd consider myself to be quite a 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:47.560 obedient son. I was someone who worked hard at school. 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:52.960 I was always kind to my fellow classmates. My childhood 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.440 was normal in that sense, but as you mentioned, I 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.800 was bullied a lot for being overweight, who was bullied 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:02.000 for the color of my skin. 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.560 Because my parents immigrated from India too. 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.440 So my mother was born and raised in Yemen, oh, 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.239 and she moved to London when she was sixteen years 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.320 old because Yemen got its independence and she wanted to 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.400 keep her British passport, so then she moved over to London. 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:19.480 And my dad moved to London from India when he 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:23.240 married my mom, and so there was a lot of 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:25.560 It was really interesting because I grew up in an 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:27.640 area where there weren't a lot of people who were Indian, 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:29.919 and so even at my school, and so it was 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.320 quite strange for people to see me. And so what's 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:35.640 really fascinating though, is that even though I'm saying that 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:37.720 and I recognize I was bullied, when I actually think 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.040 about my childhood. I kind of think of it as 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.320 very normal. It was just, you know, I was going 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:44.240 to school, I was trying to work hard, I was 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:45.880 trying to be a good son. I was trying to 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.480 be nice to people. And I look back on it 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:53.560 not looking at it as having any deeply amazing fond 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.960 memories or having any major negative memories. 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:01.000 It sounds like it was a comfortably middle class upbringing. 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.520 I guess your mom was a financial advisor, your dad 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.040 was an accountant. Yes, you must be good with numbers. 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.280 I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm okay. I don't think my 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:11.240 dad was very happy with my math skill when I 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:13.920 was growing up, so he'd be pretty angry at me 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:15.720 my poor math grades. 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.000 But what did set you apart? J which you were 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:22.240 just describing as kind of the immigrant experience, And I'm 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:26.080 curious how that might have shaped you. Feeling in some 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:31.240 ways othered by a lot of your classmates, a lot 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.240 of your neighbors, a lot of people in your community. 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:36.240 How did that impact you? 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:39.120 So I think that's what's really fascinating. My parents never 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.360 really let me feel othered, so they never really talk 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:46.160 about how we were different or how they were treated, 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.159 and I think that actually helped me integrate in that 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:51.479 I never felt I had a weakness because of the 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:53.040 color of my skin, or I didn't feel I had 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.400 a weakness because of my shape or size at the time, 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:58.920 or whatever it may be. I never felt weak. I 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.040 always felt like I fit in, and I always felt 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.719 like I was doing the right thing, and I always 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:05.839 felt like I was a hard worker. So I almost 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.160 had this sense of if anyone's being mean to me, 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.320 it was because of them, and it wasn't really about 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.159 me at all, because I felt like I was making 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.400 friends with some people. I was, you know, learning from 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:20.760 my teachers, I was getting along with my parents and 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.160 my family, and so I actually went the other way 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:29.080 where I never actually felt other. I felt very confident 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:30.680 and comfortable with who I was. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:32.800 And do you think that was because of your parents? 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.400 I think it was. I think one thing I've learned 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.960 over time, and I'm sure you've come across this is 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:43.279 all the studies showed that the deep love from one 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.160 parent can almost act as a shield from so much 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.080 pain that we go through. And I feel like the 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:53.240 depth to which my mother has loved me my whole 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:58.760 life has acted as this incredible shield even today where 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:02.440 I feel so and I believe it's because when your 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:05.880 parents love you that deeply, you don't ever question whether 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:09.240 you're lovable or not. And then when someone doesn't love you, 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:13.599 it's so abnormal that you recognize that you have a 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.920 loving place to go home to. And so I would 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.000 say it's my mother's love that's acted as such a 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.559 shield and such a potent force of Often I feel 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.520 like I have so much love that can overflow to 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.760 other people because I've been given so much love, so 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.840 I don't necessarily often seek it either or need it 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.920 as much because I feel it's almost overflowing because of 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:35.960 the cascading love my mother gave me. 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.599 I was going to say, you feel filled up already, 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.280 very filled. Yeah, what about your dad? Did you feel 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:42.320 that from him as well? 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:45.279 No, my dad was totally the opposite. So my dad 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.080 he was aloof he was busy, he was you know, 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.600 at work, or he was you know, trying to provide, 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.680 or he was also and my mom was the breadwinner 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:57.120 for a lot of my life too, so she was 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.839 doing a lot, but my father was more aloot. And 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.719 I again look at that as something I'm very grateful 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.040 for and I don't mean this now, I mean this 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.760 throughout my whole life, not based on reflection, because it 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.240 allowed me to become my own man. I never had 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:15.840 a man that I had to grow up into being 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.480 because I didn't have a role model, and my dad 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.560 eventually became a friend more than a father. And I'm 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:27.200 very grateful for that because I was allowed to mold 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.080 myself into the human I wanted to be, and I 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.800 didn't feel any pressure or expectation for my dad to 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.800 become a certain type of man. And I look at 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.200 that freedom as a beautiful gift because I feel like 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.520 I got to find my own male role models, which naturally, 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.080 later on in my journey became monks that I studied with, 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.040 and I feel that's who I accepted as fatherly figures 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:50.280 almost in my journey. 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:52.040 I want to talk to you about being a monk, 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.920 but first I want to just mention how I feel 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.040 the same way, but luckily from both my parents, how 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:03.720 much unconditional love I felt my entire life, and how 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.000 sad I am when other people didn't get that from 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:12.080 their parents. I feel so fortunate, and you know, looking 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:15.600 back on my childhood and my life until the moment 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:20.480 when my parents passed away. I don't think it even 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.280 daunted on me to question their love for me. It 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:30.600 was so deep and constant, and I just feel I 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.480 feel so lucky because I think it does give you 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.840 a certain sense of protection when you're out in the world. 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:39.240 I recently interviewed Kamala Harris, and I thought it was 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:43.920 so interesting that she said she never felt I read 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:45.640 this because we didn't talk about it. We were too 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:50.160 busy talking about Israel, immigration and abortion. But she said, 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:55.760 I never felt that I didn't belong anywhere. Yes, you know, 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:59.600 and she must have had that also, that fierce, unconditional 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:04.120 love that made her feel strong enough to almost be 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:08.080 in any environment. And that's such a gift, is it is? 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:10.840 And I'm the same as you. I feel a deep 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.440 sense of empathy and compassion for those that didn't receive that, 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:19.200 and can completely understand as to why it leads to 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.719 so many challenges in the future because you don't have 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.480 that deep well to pull from, and your foundation is 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:33.479 not built on that deep sense of love, belonging, connectedness. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.440 And so it's been really interesting and having both my parents, 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:39.520 one like I said, being more aloof and one being 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.520 very present. It's also interesting to me as to how 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:44.800 all of that can affect us, but how much of 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.320 it is you know, something that we I've often found 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:50.760 is that all of us have to reparent ourselves or 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:54.480 parent ourselves later on. And that journey is something that 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:59.079 I see so many people beautifully, gracefully coming towards of 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.640 learning to reparent themselves, learning to heal themselves. And it's 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.720 something that's necessary for everyone, even if you were loved. 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.840 Because what's really fascinating is I call it in my 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:12.160 second book Eight Rules of Love, the gifts and gaps 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.080 that our parents give us. And so if our parents 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.160 leave gaps in how we're raised, we often try and 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:22.280 fill them through other people. But if our parents give 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:26.400 us gifts of love and greatness in their parenting, we 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.520 often also still look for other people to repeat those things, 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.280 and that can be a painful process. Yeah, because no 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.680 one will love us ever as deeply as our parents 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:35.160 loved us. 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.520 And sometimes I think it's hard for us to accept 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:41.440 people who don't love us right if you're confusing and 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:46.520 hard to understand. So maybe there's a thing of loving 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:47.880 too much in some case. 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.720 Absolutely, that's what I mean. That's exactly it. That's exactly 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.040 that a gift can be a gap, and a gap 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:55.600 can be a gift. It's very dependent on how we 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.240 have perceived it and how we've processed it. 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.800 Let's talk about your ar is a monk? Three years 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.679 in all you were in business school and you had 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:07.640 somebody come and talk to you. All. Who was that? Again? 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:08.400 It was a monk? 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.400 Yeah, and you thought, Hey, that sounds like a good life, 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.760 like you know, the life of a monk. Wait, what 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.080 how did how? I'm curious, like what appeal to you 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:21.679 about that? 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.440 Yeah? I was at a point in my life and 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:26.280 I still have this today. I think it's why I 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:29.559 do my podcast and why I interview people. I think 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:33.400 I fell in love with studying and observing humans in 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.120 my teens, and so I was reading everything from Martin 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.760 Luther King to Malcolm X, David Beckham to Drain the 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.320 Rob Johnson like I was reading autobiographies and biographies, and 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.720 even till this day, biopics are my favorite type of movies, 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:49.280 whether it's Bohemian Rhapsody about Queen or whether it's Oppenheimer 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:53.600 This Year. Like, I love movie, I love learning about 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:54.600 fascinating people. 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:56.000 I'll have to give you my memoir. 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:00.160 Absolutely I would love to read it. And to me, 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.920 that's kind of how I've always been. And then my 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:06.240 friends invited me to hear a monk speak, and I 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.120 didn't really know too much about monks, so I wasn't 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:13.440 feeling inspired or excited because this wasn't someone I knew 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.240 of and not someone I recognized. But my friends were 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.720 very persuasive and they said to me, you know, let's 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.280 just go along to this event. And I said, well, 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.200 as long as we go to a bar afterwards, then 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:26.560 I'll come along. So I went along to this event 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:30.920 not expecting anything, and what really impressed me was here 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.040 was a man with an Indian accent, wearing robes and 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:39.480 of Indian descent, sitting and talking so comfortably in a 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:46.120 college room in London, with no anxiety, no nerves, no qualms, 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.520 no feeling of like he didn't belong. And I saw 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.160 someone who is so confident in their own skin. And now, 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.880 upon reflection, I always realized that I think at that 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.200 point in my life I had met or seen people 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:01.000 who were rich and famous and beauty full and powerful 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.520 and strong, but I don't think i'd ever met anyone 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.320 who is truly happy or content as they were, and 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.920 he was, and there was something inside of me that 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.520 just said, I want that, Like, that's what I want 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.160 to feel, that's what I want to experience. That seems 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:18.640 like a worthy pursuit. And often people will say, well, 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.559 did you have something in you or you know, how 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.600 did you have that sense at eighteen? And I would say, 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:26.280 I don't think the credit goes to me. I think 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.160 the credit goes to him. And I still know him today. 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.000 He's a dear friend and mentor in my life, and 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.439 he still carries that presence when anyone meets him. He 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:39.080 has this magnetic energy because of his deep spiritual practice 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.520 that can take away all types of barriers. And so 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.440 for me, the credit goes to his presence and his aura, 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.319 far more than my qualification at the time, which I 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:49.400 don't think I had much of. 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.840 So you're studying business, then you decide I'm going to 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:54.280 move to India, right. 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.200 So not immediately, I spent the next because I was 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.480 at college. I spent the next summers in Christmases visiting 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.160 him in India, and I was also interning at corporate 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.439 companies in London. And then when I graduated, that's when 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.640 I made the decision that I would prefer to live 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:11.400 as a monk than in the corporate world, which were 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.199 my two choices pretty much, and I felt so much 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:18.640 more drawn to a life of mental mastery and service 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.160 as opposed to a life of getting a job in 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.280 the traditional sense. And so I traded my suits for 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.320 robes and went off to live as a monk across 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.360 India and the UK and Europe for three years. We 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.040 would travel as well, often encouraged to come back to 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:36.160 the UK to serve where we were from and connect 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.880 with people. And it was truly one of the most 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.000 beautiful experiences in my life that I cherished so deeply. 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.800 And I was just at the monastery last week. I 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.200 was in India visiting again. I go back every year 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:48.960 to reconnect and reground myself. 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:53.960 So obviously it was incredibly formative. But you ultimately decided 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.200 that wasn't the life you wanted. Before you tell me 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.720 why that was the case, I'm curious, what do you 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.120 do when you're a month? What is the day and 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:04.240 the life of a monk? 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.640 Like, so you wake up at four am? 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.960 Okay, I'm out on that. I did that for too 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:11.560 many years. 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.200 Yeah, I can imagine, I can imagine you did. So 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:18.080 you wake up at four am. There's collective meditation and 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.720 prayers from four thirty till about five point thirty, and 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.800 then there are a couple of hours or two hours 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:28.760 of personal meditation. Then there's more collective meditation than there's 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:29.840 more private meditation. 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:31.680 And that's a lot to meditate. 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.640 That takes you all the way up to breakfast, and 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.120 there's a wisdom class and then the rest of the 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.280 day looks different. It can be a mix of chores, 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:45.000 more meditation, philanthropic work, service work, going out and serving, 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.720 especially in India, serving villagers, serving the homeless, interacting, so 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.280 there's a lot of service work as well, and that's 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:56.400 the path. That's why I chose the path that I did, 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.680 because half of it was in silence and for the self, 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:01.680 and the other half of it was service. And I 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.760 felt that that felt like a balance that made sense 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.520 to my you know, Western ideology as well of I 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.080 wanted to actually do something as well. I didn't just 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.800 want to be, And so that balance was of being 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.080 and doing that seemed to work very well. 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.680 And ultimately, why did you decide that this was not 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.240 the life you wanted to choose. 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.160 Well. I think what's really interesting is that the goal 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:26.080 of the amount of time you spend as a monk, 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.560 one of the goals is self awareness. You gain so 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.320 much insight into how the mind works, into your triggers, 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.320 your weaknesses, your imperfections, your flaws. And the biggest conclusion 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.400 I came to was I wasn't a monk in that 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.560 my self awareness showed me that I'm quite independent, I'm 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.160 quite rebellious, I have a certain way that I like 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:48.360 to do things. And that was quite humbling at that time, 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.600 because you've kind of geared yourself up to do this thing, 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.200 and you know, earlier you mentioned that I've had such 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:58.160 an interesting or fascinating journey. When I chose to become 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.680 a monk. It wasn't met with that emotion or experience 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.399 from my family or extended family. Most people thought I 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.600 was wasting my life, I was throwing away my education, 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.160 I was committing career suicide, I was letting my parents down, 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.800 and I'd probably been brainwashed. And so it wasn't met 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:17.600 with this, oh my gosh, this is going to be 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:21.120 such an amazing life experience, how beautiful. It was met 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:22.640 with cynicism and skepticism. 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.320 Well, you can understand why your parents were a little like, 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:26.440 wait a second, jape. 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.439 Absolutely absolutely I can. And it's just interesting how something 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.919 that was initially so seen that way has become something 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:36.600 that is so interesting and fascinating. 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.960 I also think interest in meditation and this kind of 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:45.000 idea of a life of purpose and service and community. 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.840 I think now probably much more so when you were 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.720 even eighteen, people are craving that, so I think in 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.960 a way it's almost more understandable today in the environment 0:17:56.000 --> 0:18:00.640 we're living in now. Absolutely absolutely so, you decided I'm 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.800 not going to be a monk anymore. Was your mentor 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.760 upset by the way when you decided to leave the monastery? 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:07.520 It was more the other way around. I was upset 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:11.040 with myself. I felt pretty embarrassed. I felt a bit ashamed. 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.440 I felt a little bit of guilt because I had 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.439 put all that pressure on myself that I was going 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.679 to do this for the rest of my life, and 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:20.880 so leaving was probably one of the most difficult things 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:22.919 I have had to do. And I'd say my teachers 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:25.520 made it easier than they did harder. I got some 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.240 beautiful advice. I remember talking to my mentor and saying 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.919 to him that I'm not going to be able to 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.960 pursue this path anymore, and that I was worried that 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.439 I wasn't sure if it was the right decision. I 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.400 was actually quite uncertain about if it was the right move. 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.200 I was scared that actually I may regress and move 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.199 backward in my journey that I'd tried to take steps 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.000 forward in. And he said to me, said, Jay, you 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.719 know when people go to college. Some people stay at 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.000 the college and they become professors and researchers, and some 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.160 people leave and they get jobs. And he said, which 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.280 one's better? And I said, well, it doesn't matter. It 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.600 depends on the person. And he said exactly the same. 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.080 He said, some people join the monastery and they become monks, 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.840 and then they stay and they become senior monks, and 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.320 some people leave and they go off and live their life. 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.720 And they reminded me that leaving didn't mean I had 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.960 to leave the philosophy or the tradition or the practice. 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.240 It was simply leaving an external practice of it. And 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.480 I think that that was very comforting at a time 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:30.680 when I was definitely feeling anxious and confused about what 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.159 I would do. When I went back, everyone around me 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.040 would and they did say I told you so, we 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.320 knew you wouldn't make it. Oh, and have you heard 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.480 about your friend who's now dating that wonderful girl? And 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.320 have you seen that person who's got promoted now? And oh, 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:46.120 did you know I so and so just moved into 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.560 that new apartment And all of a sudden, you're hearing 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:53.720 about the great wins and successes and progress that all 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.199 your friends and family and others have made, and how 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.520 you've been left behind. And so I came back to 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:02.440 a world that was reminding me of potentially how I'd 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.639 wasted three years of my life, as opposed to a 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.040 celebration of coming back. 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:12.919 After a quick break. How Jay's three years as a 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:18.240 monk laid the foundation for the life and businesses he's built. 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:23.879 If you want to get smarter every morning with a 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.159 breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.560 wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:40.280 Wake Upcall by going to Katiecuric dot com. Now more 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:45.159 of my conversation with Jay Shetty. It seems to me 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.720 your time as a monk really informed who you are 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.040 today and set you on a path to be who 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.760 you wanted to be ultimately, and you are living a 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:02.440 life of service for your podcast, your books, and you've 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:06.000 created kind of this space for yourself that I don't 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:09.119 think you would have not that I know everything about you, 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:11.760 say shety, but you wouldn't have done it if you 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:15.440 had not had those three years of experience. And can 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:19.639 you just explain how you got from failing monk school 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.359