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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question.

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Speaker 1: I love origin stories, the way our lives begin shape,

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Speaker 1: so much about how they play out and how we

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Speaker 1: see the world and the world sees us. My guest today, Jayshetti,

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Speaker 1: has an origin story that in some ways seems predestined.

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Speaker 1: Business student meets monk, leaves business to become a monk. Monk,

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Speaker 1: finds social media and becomes a spiritual teacher to the world.

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Speaker 1: It almost sounds like a movie, right, But as you'll

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Speaker 1: hear in our conversation, the waters of Jayshetti run deep.

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Speaker 1: He rejects the term guru, but it's clear he's becoming

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Speaker 1: a guiding light of sorts to many. His enterprise is

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Speaker 1: best spanning podcasts. His is called on Purpose to a

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Speaker 1: life coaching training company. Now, some of you may have

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Speaker 1: seen that Shechetty's reception hasn't been universally warm. There was

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Speaker 1: a Guardian piece about a month back before Jay and

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Speaker 1: I spoke that scrutinized aspects of his business and his story.

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Speaker 1: His reps then responded refuting parts of the article they

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Speaker 1: say are untrue. Now we're not going to litigate the

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Speaker 1: back and forth of it here, but What is irrefutable

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Speaker 1: is Ja Shetty has struck a chord and is providing

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Speaker 1: millions of listeners with advice and observations they seem hungry for. Jay.

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy to view with you.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to be with you. Thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for the opportunity.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was reading about you, Jay, I know

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Speaker 1: about you already, but to refresh my memory and to

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Speaker 1: learn new things, I was doing some research and I've

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Speaker 1: decided that dose at case man has nothing on you.

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Speaker 1: You are the most interesting man in the world, Jay Shetty.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that, but I'll I take that

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Speaker 2: as a wonderful complement from you.

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Speaker 1: It is, I mean, and you have had such a rich,

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Speaker 1: diverse life. And I wanted to kind of go back

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Speaker 1: to the beginning because I love to discuss people's origin

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Speaker 1: stories because I feel like we're shaped so much by

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Speaker 1: our childhoods and our parents. And you grew up in

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Speaker 1: London in a very middle class family. I know you

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Speaker 1: were bullied in school. How would you describe your childhood

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Speaker 1: in general?

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Speaker 2: You know what's really interesting, Katie, is that your own

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Speaker 2: childhood is so normal to you that the word that

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Speaker 2: comes to mind immediately is normal, but that doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: a lot because we all look at everything through our

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Speaker 2: own lenses normal, And if I had to define it

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Speaker 2: or describe it, I'd consider myself to be quite a

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Speaker 2: obedient son. I was someone who worked hard at school.

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Speaker 2: I was always kind to my fellow classmates. My childhood

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Speaker 2: was normal in that sense, but as you mentioned, I

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Speaker 2: was bullied a lot for being overweight, who was bullied

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Speaker 2: for the color of my skin.

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Speaker 1: Because my parents immigrated from India too.

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Speaker 2: So my mother was born and raised in Yemen, oh,

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Speaker 2: and she moved to London when she was sixteen years

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Speaker 2: old because Yemen got its independence and she wanted to

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Speaker 2: keep her British passport, so then she moved over to London.

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Speaker 2: And my dad moved to London from India when he

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Speaker 2: married my mom, and so there was a lot of

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Speaker 2: It was really interesting because I grew up in an

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Speaker 2: area where there weren't a lot of people who were Indian,

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Speaker 2: and so even at my school, and so it was

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Speaker 2: quite strange for people to see me. And so what's

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Speaker 2: really fascinating though, is that even though I'm saying that

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Speaker 2: and I recognize I was bullied, when I actually think

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Speaker 2: about my childhood. I kind of think of it as

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Speaker 2: very normal. It was just, you know, I was going

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Speaker 2: to school, I was trying to work hard, I was

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Speaker 2: trying to be a good son. I was trying to

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Speaker 2: be nice to people. And I look back on it

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Speaker 2: not looking at it as having any deeply amazing fond

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Speaker 2: memories or having any major negative memories.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like it was a comfortably middle class upbringing.

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Speaker 1: I guess your mom was a financial advisor, your dad

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Speaker 1: was an accountant. Yes, you must be good with numbers.

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Speaker 2: I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm okay. I don't think my

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Speaker 2: dad was very happy with my math skill when I

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Speaker 2: was growing up, so he'd be pretty angry at me

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Speaker 2: my poor math grades.

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Speaker 1: But what did set you apart? J which you were

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Speaker 1: just describing as kind of the immigrant experience, And I'm

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Speaker 1: curious how that might have shaped you. Feeling in some

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Speaker 1: ways othered by a lot of your classmates, a lot

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Speaker 1: of your neighbors, a lot of people in your community.

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Speaker 1: How did that impact you?

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Speaker 2: So I think that's what's really fascinating. My parents never

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Speaker 2: really let me feel othered, so they never really talk

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Speaker 2: about how we were different or how they were treated,

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Speaker 2: and I think that actually helped me integrate in that

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Speaker 2: I never felt I had a weakness because of the

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Speaker 2: color of my skin, or I didn't feel I had

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Speaker 2: a weakness because of my shape or size at the time,

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Speaker 2: or whatever it may be. I never felt weak. I

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Speaker 2: always felt like I fit in, and I always felt

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Speaker 2: like I was doing the right thing, and I always

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Speaker 2: felt like I was a hard worker. So I almost

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Speaker 2: had this sense of if anyone's being mean to me,

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Speaker 2: it was because of them, and it wasn't really about

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Speaker 2: me at all, because I felt like I was making

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Speaker 2: friends with some people. I was, you know, learning from

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Speaker 2: my teachers, I was getting along with my parents and

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Speaker 2: my family, and so I actually went the other way

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Speaker 2: where I never actually felt other. I felt very confident

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Speaker 2: and comfortable with who I was.

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Speaker 1: And do you think that was because of your parents?

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Speaker 2: I think it was. I think one thing I've learned

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Speaker 2: over time, and I'm sure you've come across this is

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Speaker 2: all the studies showed that the deep love from one

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Speaker 2: parent can almost act as a shield from so much

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Speaker 2: pain that we go through. And I feel like the

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Speaker 2: depth to which my mother has loved me my whole

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Speaker 2: life has acted as this incredible shield even today where

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Speaker 2: I feel so and I believe it's because when your

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Speaker 2: parents love you that deeply, you don't ever question whether

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Speaker 2: you're lovable or not. And then when someone doesn't love you,

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Speaker 2: it's so abnormal that you recognize that you have a

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Speaker 2: loving place to go home to. And so I would

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Speaker 2: say it's my mother's love that's acted as such a

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Speaker 2: shield and such a potent force of Often I feel

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Speaker 2: like I have so much love that can overflow to

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Speaker 2: other people because I've been given so much love, so

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Speaker 2: I don't necessarily often seek it either or need it

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Speaker 2: as much because I feel it's almost overflowing because of

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Speaker 2: the cascading love my mother gave me.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, you feel filled up already,

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Speaker 1: very filled. Yeah, what about your dad? Did you feel

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Speaker 1: that from him as well?

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Speaker 2: No, my dad was totally the opposite. So my dad

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Speaker 2: he was aloof he was busy, he was you know,

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Speaker 2: at work, or he was you know, trying to provide,

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Speaker 2: or he was also and my mom was the breadwinner

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Speaker 2: for a lot of my life too, so she was

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Speaker 2: doing a lot, but my father was more aloot. And

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Speaker 2: I again look at that as something I'm very grateful

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Speaker 2: for and I don't mean this now, I mean this

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Speaker 2: throughout my whole life, not based on reflection, because it

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Speaker 2: allowed me to become my own man. I never had

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Speaker 2: a man that I had to grow up into being

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Speaker 2: because I didn't have a role model, and my dad

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Speaker 2: eventually became a friend more than a father. And I'm

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Speaker 2: very grateful for that because I was allowed to mold

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Speaker 2: myself into the human I wanted to be, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't feel any pressure or expectation for my dad to

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Speaker 2: become a certain type of man. And I look at

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Speaker 2: that freedom as a beautiful gift because I feel like

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Speaker 2: I got to find my own male role models, which naturally,

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Speaker 2: later on in my journey became monks that I studied with,

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Speaker 2: and I feel that's who I accepted as fatherly figures

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Speaker 2: almost in my journey.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about being a monk,

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Speaker 1: but first I want to just mention how I feel

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Speaker 1: the same way, but luckily from both my parents, how

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Speaker 1: much unconditional love I felt my entire life, and how

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Speaker 1: sad I am when other people didn't get that from

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Speaker 1: their parents. I feel so fortunate, and you know, looking

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Speaker 1: back on my childhood and my life until the moment

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Speaker 1: when my parents passed away. I don't think it even

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Speaker 1: daunted on me to question their love for me. It

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Speaker 1: was so deep and constant, and I just feel I

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Speaker 1: feel so lucky because I think it does give you

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Speaker 1: a certain sense of protection when you're out in the world.

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Speaker 1: I recently interviewed Kamala Harris, and I thought it was

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Speaker 1: so interesting that she said she never felt I read

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Speaker 1: this because we didn't talk about it. We were too

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Speaker 1: busy talking about Israel, immigration and abortion. But she said,

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Speaker 1: I never felt that I didn't belong anywhere. Yes, you know,

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Speaker 1: and she must have had that also, that fierce, unconditional

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Speaker 1: love that made her feel strong enough to almost be

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Speaker 1: in any environment. And that's such a gift, is it is?

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Speaker 2: And I'm the same as you. I feel a deep

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Speaker 2: sense of empathy and compassion for those that didn't receive that,

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Speaker 2: and can completely understand as to why it leads to

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Speaker 2: so many challenges in the future because you don't have

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Speaker 2: that deep well to pull from, and your foundation is

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Speaker 2: not built on that deep sense of love, belonging, connectedness.

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Speaker 2: And so it's been really interesting and having both my parents,

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Speaker 2: one like I said, being more aloof and one being

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Speaker 2: very present. It's also interesting to me as to how

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Speaker 2: all of that can affect us, but how much of

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Speaker 2: it is you know, something that we I've often found

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Speaker 2: is that all of us have to reparent ourselves or

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Speaker 2: parent ourselves later on. And that journey is something that

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Speaker 2: I see so many people beautifully, gracefully coming towards of

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Speaker 2: learning to reparent themselves, learning to heal themselves. And it's

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Speaker 2: something that's necessary for everyone, even if you were loved.

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Speaker 2: Because what's really fascinating is I call it in my

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Speaker 2: second book Eight Rules of Love, the gifts and gaps

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Speaker 2: that our parents give us. And so if our parents

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Speaker 2: leave gaps in how we're raised, we often try and

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Speaker 2: fill them through other people. But if our parents give

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Speaker 2: us gifts of love and greatness in their parenting, we

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Speaker 2: often also still look for other people to repeat those things,

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Speaker 2: and that can be a painful process. Yeah, because no

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Speaker 2: one will love us ever as deeply as our parents

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Speaker 2: loved us.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes I think it's hard for us to accept

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Speaker 1: people who don't love us right if you're confusing and

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Speaker 1: hard to understand. So maybe there's a thing of loving

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Speaker 1: too much in some case.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's what I mean. That's exactly it. That's exactly

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Speaker 2: that a gift can be a gap, and a gap

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Speaker 2: can be a gift. It's very dependent on how we

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Speaker 2: have perceived it and how we've processed it.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about your ar is a monk? Three years

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Speaker 1: in all you were in business school and you had

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Speaker 1: somebody come and talk to you. All. Who was that? Again?

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Speaker 2: It was a monk?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you thought, Hey, that sounds like a good life,

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Speaker 1: like you know, the life of a monk. Wait, what

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Speaker 1: how did how? I'm curious, like what appeal to you

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Speaker 1: about that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I was at a point in my life and

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Speaker 2: I still have this today. I think it's why I

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Speaker 2: do my podcast and why I interview people. I think

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Speaker 2: I fell in love with studying and observing humans in

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Speaker 2: my teens, and so I was reading everything from Martin

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Speaker 2: Luther King to Malcolm X, David Beckham to Drain the

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Speaker 2: Rob Johnson like I was reading autobiographies and biographies, and

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Speaker 2: even till this day, biopics are my favorite type of movies,

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Speaker 2: whether it's Bohemian Rhapsody about Queen or whether it's Oppenheimer

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Speaker 2: This Year. Like, I love movie, I love learning about

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Speaker 2: fascinating people.

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Speaker 1: I'll have to give you my memoir.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely I would love to read it. And to me,

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Speaker 2: that's kind of how I've always been. And then my

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Speaker 2: friends invited me to hear a monk speak, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't really know too much about monks, so I wasn't

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Speaker 2: feeling inspired or excited because this wasn't someone I knew

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Speaker 2: of and not someone I recognized. But my friends were

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Speaker 2: very persuasive and they said to me, you know, let's

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Speaker 2: just go along to this event. And I said, well,

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Speaker 2: as long as we go to a bar afterwards, then

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Speaker 2: I'll come along. So I went along to this event

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Speaker 2: not expecting anything, and what really impressed me was here

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Speaker 2: was a man with an Indian accent, wearing robes and

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Speaker 2: of Indian descent, sitting and talking so comfortably in a

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Speaker 2: college room in London, with no anxiety, no nerves, no qualms,

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Speaker 2: no feeling of like he didn't belong. And I saw

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Speaker 2: someone who is so confident in their own skin. And now,

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Speaker 2: upon reflection, I always realized that I think at that

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Speaker 2: point in my life I had met or seen people

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Speaker 2: who were rich and famous and beauty full and powerful

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Speaker 2: and strong, but I don't think i'd ever met anyone

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Speaker 2: who is truly happy or content as they were, and

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Speaker 2: he was, and there was something inside of me that

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Speaker 2: just said, I want that, Like, that's what I want

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Speaker 2: to feel, that's what I want to experience. That seems

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Speaker 2: like a worthy pursuit. And often people will say, well,

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Speaker 2: did you have something in you or you know, how

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Speaker 2: did you have that sense at eighteen? And I would say,

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Speaker 2: I don't think the credit goes to me. I think

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Speaker 2: the credit goes to him. And I still know him today.

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Speaker 2: He's a dear friend and mentor in my life, and

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Speaker 2: he still carries that presence when anyone meets him. He

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Speaker 2: has this magnetic energy because of his deep spiritual practice

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Speaker 2: that can take away all types of barriers. And so

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Speaker 2: for me, the credit goes to his presence and his aura,

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Speaker 2: far more than my qualification at the time, which I

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Speaker 2: don't think I had much of.

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Speaker 1: So you're studying business, then you decide I'm going to

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Speaker 1: move to India, right.

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Speaker 2: So not immediately, I spent the next because I was

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Speaker 2: at college. I spent the next summers in Christmases visiting

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Speaker 2: him in India, and I was also interning at corporate

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Speaker 2: companies in London. And then when I graduated, that's when

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Speaker 2: I made the decision that I would prefer to live

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Speaker 2: as a monk than in the corporate world, which were

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Speaker 2: my two choices pretty much, and I felt so much

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Speaker 2: more drawn to a life of mental mastery and service

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Speaker 2: as opposed to a life of getting a job in

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Speaker 2: the traditional sense. And so I traded my suits for

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Speaker 2: robes and went off to live as a monk across

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Speaker 2: India and the UK and Europe for three years. We

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Speaker 2: would travel as well, often encouraged to come back to

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Speaker 2: the UK to serve where we were from and connect

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Speaker 2: with people. And it was truly one of the most

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Speaker 2: beautiful experiences in my life that I cherished so deeply.

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Speaker 2: And I was just at the monastery last week. I

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Speaker 2: was in India visiting again. I go back every year

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Speaker 2: to reconnect and reground myself.

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Speaker 1: So obviously it was incredibly formative. But you ultimately decided

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Speaker 1: that wasn't the life you wanted. Before you tell me

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Speaker 1: why that was the case, I'm curious, what do you

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Speaker 1: do when you're a month? What is the day and

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Speaker 1: the life of a monk?

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Speaker 2: Like, so you wake up at four am?

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm out on that. I did that for too

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Speaker 1: many years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can imagine, I can imagine you did. So

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Speaker 2: you wake up at four am. There's collective meditation and

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Speaker 2: prayers from four thirty till about five point thirty, and

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Speaker 2: then there are a couple of hours or two hours

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Speaker 2: of personal meditation. Then there's more collective meditation than there's

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Speaker 2: more private meditation.

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Speaker 1: And that's a lot to meditate.

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Speaker 2: That takes you all the way up to breakfast, and

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Speaker 2: there's a wisdom class and then the rest of the

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Speaker 2: day looks different. It can be a mix of chores,

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Speaker 2: more meditation, philanthropic work, service work, going out and serving,

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Speaker 2: especially in India, serving villagers, serving the homeless, interacting, so

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of service work as well, and that's

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Speaker 2: the path. That's why I chose the path that I did,

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Speaker 2: because half of it was in silence and for the self,

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Speaker 2: and the other half of it was service. And I

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Speaker 2: felt that that felt like a balance that made sense

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Speaker 2: to my you know, Western ideology as well of I

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Speaker 2: wanted to actually do something as well. I didn't just

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Speaker 2: want to be, And so that balance was of being

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Speaker 2: and doing that seemed to work very well.

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Speaker 1: And ultimately, why did you decide that this was not

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Speaker 1: the life you wanted to choose.

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Speaker 2: Well. I think what's really interesting is that the goal

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Speaker 2: of the amount of time you spend as a monk,

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Speaker 2: one of the goals is self awareness. You gain so

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Speaker 2: much insight into how the mind works, into your triggers,

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Speaker 2: your weaknesses, your imperfections, your flaws. And the biggest conclusion

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Speaker 2: I came to was I wasn't a monk in that

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Speaker 2: my self awareness showed me that I'm quite independent, I'm

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Speaker 2: quite rebellious, I have a certain way that I like

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Speaker 2: to do things. And that was quite humbling at that time,

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Speaker 2: because you've kind of geared yourself up to do this thing,

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Speaker 2: and you know, earlier you mentioned that I've had such

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Speaker 2: an interesting or fascinating journey. When I chose to become

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Speaker 2: a monk. It wasn't met with that emotion or experience

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Speaker 2: from my family or extended family. Most people thought I

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Speaker 2: was wasting my life, I was throwing away my education,

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Speaker 2: I was committing career suicide, I was letting my parents down,

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Speaker 2: and I'd probably been brainwashed. And so it wasn't met

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Speaker 2: with this, oh my gosh, this is going to be

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Speaker 2: such an amazing life experience, how beautiful. It was met

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Speaker 2: with cynicism and skepticism.

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Speaker 1: Well, you can understand why your parents were a little like,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, jape.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely I can. And it's just interesting how something

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Speaker 2: that was initially so seen that way has become something

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Speaker 2: that is so interesting and fascinating.

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Speaker 1: I also think interest in meditation and this kind of

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Speaker 1: idea of a life of purpose and service and community.

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Speaker 1: I think now probably much more so when you were

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Speaker 1: even eighteen, people are craving that, so I think in

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Speaker 1: a way it's almost more understandable today in the environment

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Speaker 1: we're living in now. Absolutely absolutely so, you decided I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to be a monk anymore. Was your mentor

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Speaker 1: upset by the way when you decided to leave the monastery?

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Speaker 2: It was more the other way around. I was upset

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Speaker 2: with myself. I felt pretty embarrassed. I felt a bit ashamed.

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Speaker 2: I felt a little bit of guilt because I had

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Speaker 2: put all that pressure on myself that I was going

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Speaker 2: to do this for the rest of my life, and

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Speaker 2: so leaving was probably one of the most difficult things

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Speaker 2: I have had to do. And I'd say my teachers

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Speaker 2: made it easier than they did harder. I got some

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Speaker 2: beautiful advice. I remember talking to my mentor and saying

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Speaker 2: to him that I'm not going to be able to

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Speaker 2: pursue this path anymore, and that I was worried that

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Speaker 2: I wasn't sure if it was the right decision. I

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Speaker 2: was actually quite uncertain about if it was the right move.

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Speaker 2: I was scared that actually I may regress and move

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Speaker 2: backward in my journey that I'd tried to take steps

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Speaker 2: forward in. And he said to me, said, Jay, you

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Speaker 2: know when people go to college. Some people stay at

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Speaker 2: the college and they become professors and researchers, and some

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Speaker 2: people leave and they get jobs. And he said, which

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Speaker 2: one's better? And I said, well, it doesn't matter. It

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Speaker 2: depends on the person. And he said exactly the same.

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Speaker 2: He said, some people join the monastery and they become monks,

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Speaker 2: and then they stay and they become senior monks, and

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Speaker 2: some people leave and they go off and live their life.

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Speaker 2: And they reminded me that leaving didn't mean I had

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Speaker 2: to leave the philosophy or the tradition or the practice.

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Speaker 2: It was simply leaving an external practice of it. And

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Speaker 2: I think that that was very comforting at a time

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Speaker 2: when I was definitely feeling anxious and confused about what

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Speaker 2: I would do. When I went back, everyone around me

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Speaker 2: would and they did say I told you so, we

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Speaker 2: knew you wouldn't make it. Oh, and have you heard

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Speaker 2: about your friend who's now dating that wonderful girl? And

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Speaker 2: have you seen that person who's got promoted now? And oh,

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Speaker 2: did you know I so and so just moved into

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Speaker 2: that new apartment And all of a sudden, you're hearing

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Speaker 2: about the great wins and successes and progress that all

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Speaker 2: your friends and family and others have made, and how

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Speaker 2: you've been left behind. And so I came back to

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Speaker 2: a world that was reminding me of potentially how I'd

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Speaker 2: wasted three years of my life, as opposed to a

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Speaker 2: celebration of coming back.

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Speaker 1: After a quick break. How Jay's three years as a

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Speaker 1: monk laid the foundation for the life and businesses he's built.

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Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a

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Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and

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Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,

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Speaker 1: Wake Upcall by going to Katiecuric dot com. Now more

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Speaker 1: of my conversation with Jay Shetty. It seems to me

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Speaker 1: your time as a monk really informed who you are

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Speaker 1: today and set you on a path to be who

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Speaker 1: you wanted to be ultimately, and you are living a

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Speaker 1: life of service for your podcast, your books, and you've

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Speaker 1: created kind of this space for yourself that I don't

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Speaker 1: think you would have not that I know everything about you,

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Speaker 1: say shety, but you wouldn't have done it if you

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Speaker 1: had not had those three years of experience. And can

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Speaker 1: you just explain how you got from failing monk school

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Speaker 1: I'm kidding, from deciding you weren't going to be a

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Speaker 1: monk to creating honestly, And I don't even want to

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Speaker 1: call it a business because I feel like that you

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Speaker 1: can demeans it in a way. But how did you

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Speaker 1: get from there to here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? And I want to change that too. I think

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Speaker 2: I empathize with what you're saying there, but it would

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Speaker 2: be nice to redeem the word business too, you know.

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Speaker 2: I think sometimes the word business gets a bad rap.

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Speaker 1: But I almost found maybe enterprise, Yeah sounds a little less,

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but the journey was, at least at

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Speaker 2: the time felt slow and confusing, and now looking feels

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Speaker 2: perfectly aligned. And I'm always remembering that beautiful quote from

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Speaker 2: Steve Jobs where he said that you can't connect the

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Speaker 2: dots looking forwards, you and you can looking backwards. And

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Speaker 2: when I look back at that time, I first order,

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Speaker 2: I just need to pay my bills because I was

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Speaker 2: living with my parents again, and you know, I couldn't

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Speaker 2: just depend on them for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 2: So I wanted to find a way, and I thought

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Speaker 2: I'd have to go back into a job that made sense.

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Speaker 2: So I was applying to consulting firms because that felt

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Speaker 2: like where I would have ended up previously. I was

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Speaker 2: rejected from forty companies before even an interview. No one

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Speaker 2: would even get me an interview through the door because surprise, surprise,

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Speaker 2: no one wants to hire a former monk on their resume.

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Speaker 2: Like people are like, well, what are your transferable skills?

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Speaker 2: Being silent and sitting still? We don't need that in

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Speaker 2: our company. So I wouldn't get an interview, and I

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Speaker 2: was getting really really anxious that, Okay, I may have

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Speaker 2: made the worst decision, because how am I going to

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Speaker 2: survive in the real world now. And then finally I

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Speaker 2: got a job at Accentua, which I'm extremely grateful for.

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Speaker 2: If they didn't give me a shot, I don't know

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Speaker 2: who would have and they put me on their grad program.

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00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 2: I was age twenty five and everyone else was age

438
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 2: twenty one, but I took it. I was happy to

439
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 2: work my way up and figure it out. And so

440
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 2: I spent two years there.

441
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: And what was your job there?

442
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: My job there? I joined as an analyst and then

443
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 2: graduated on to become a consultant. I worked on everything

444
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 2: at the time, from digital strategy to social media. That

445
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 2: was the growing rising tide in the world in twenty thirteen,

446
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 2: especially in that B to B space or the business space.

447
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 2: And I was actually gaining confidence because Actensia prioritized mental

448
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: health inside the organization in a really phenomenal way.

449
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 1: I was going to say. They were very early.

450
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely early adopters and really valuing trying to help people

451
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 2: and you know, figure it out. And when they discovered

452
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 2: that I had learned meditation and about my background, they

453
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 2: encouraged me to do that in the workplace. So I

454
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 2: would lead meditations in rooms probably the size of this maybe.

455
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: Very small for you all who can't see it.

456
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: Maybe two people would show up and I would be

457
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: so excited to share meditation with two people. And I

458
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: would keep doing that, and every week more and more

459
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 2: people would come. Different parts of the company would invite me.

460
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 2: I would travel around the company to teach meditation and mindfulness.

461
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 2: And then once I was asked to teach my entire cohort,

462
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: my colleagues of a thousand people at our summer event.

463
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 2: And I was an employee inside the company. I didn't

464
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 2: have a brand or I didn't have a business or

465
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 2: a website or anything or at all. I was an

466
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 2: employee and that gave me so much confidence that what

467
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 2: I had learned had so much value in the real world,

468
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: because people would come up to me and talk to

469
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 2: me about how the sessions had helped them and help

470
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 2: them get through a really tough time or overcome burnout.

471
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 2: And I was receiving all this positive feedback from my colleagues,

472
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 2: and I thought to myself, well, maybe this should reach

473
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 2: more people, Like how beautiful would it be if this

474
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 2: would connect with more people? And I'd been then doing

475
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: an event in the city of London. I would invite

476
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: whoever would come, and teaching and sharing has always been

477
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 2: a part of my fascination. I did this even at college.

478
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 2: Ever since I met the Monk. I was giving small

479
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 2: seminars and lectures about everything he'd teach me to my

480
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 2: fellow students at university. And so I thought to myself,

481
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 2: I want this to reach more people. And so I

482
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 2: created a plan to pitch my video series idea to

483
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 2: media companies in London. Applied to ten of them. They

484
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: all turned me down. And then I networked with three

485
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: executives and I asked them to give me a break,

486
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 2: and I said, I don't care what you pay me.

487
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 2: I will do this for free. I just want to

488
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 2: create these videos and this series and maybe it's a show,

489
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: whatever it is. And I got three answers. You're too old.

490
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 2: I was twenty eight years old, you're too late, and

491
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: you're too unqualified. And I didn't have a communications background

492
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: or I didn't have a degree in it, so people

493
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: thought I didn't have the skills. And so I was

494
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 2: feeling like, oh, well, here we are again, like this

495
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 2: isn't going anywhere. How is this going to build? And

496
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 2: I ended up at a ethnic minority TV presenter workshop

497
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: in London. So again it was a room probably triple

498
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 2: the size of this room, five to six brown people

499
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: and black people in this room being trained in presenting.

500
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 2: I went there to see if I could develop the skills.

501
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 2: And when I went there, they said, heja, you actually

502
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: have some really good skills. I said, great, give me

503
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 2: a job in media and they said, well, there's no

504
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 2: jobs in media. And I said, wow, So you invited

505
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: five to six brown and black people here to tell

506
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: us that there's no jobs in media. Thank you so much.

507
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: And this was lest year twenty This was twenty fifteen,

508
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: all right, so nine years ago, and think of what

509
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: they would say today. But go on.

510
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: So then they said to me, they said, well, why

511
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 2: don't you start a YouTube channel? And I hadn't really

512
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: considered social media then because I never really I didn't

513
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 2: really understand it fully. I didn't know what it could do.

514
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: I didn't, you know, I didn't have any case studies

515
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: or examples in that way. And I said to them,

516
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: I said, well that works for Justin Bieber, like that's

517
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 2: not going to work for me. And I got a point.

518
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 2: And I'm reminded of this quote often and I still

519
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 2: live by it today. Thomas Edison said that when you

520
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 2: believe you've exhausted all options, remember this you haven't. And

521
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 2: I live by that today. Whenever I feel I've knocked

522
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 2: on every door, I realized there's still one more way through.

523
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: When I feel like I've broken through every door, I

524
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 2: feel like you have to realize you might have to

525
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 2: jump over a wall. Like when I feel like I've

526
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,719
Speaker 2: pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed and running out

527
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 2: of energy, I know that I need to push once more.

528
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: And so I started a YouTube channel because I didn't

529
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 2: have another choice. So I didn't come into social media

530
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 2: ever thinking social media would be the way I would

531
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 2: connect with people. I came to social media because I

532
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: didn't know what else to do to connect with people,

533
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: and so I started. I made my first video in

534
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, got like one hundred views, and I was

535
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: over the moon. I was so happy. And as I

536
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: continued to make those videos, my boss at Accentua, well

537
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 2: not even my boss, our global HR leader, saw them

538
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: on the intro at the internal social media and website,

539
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 2: and she showed it to Ariana Huffington at Davos, and

540
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 2: Arianna Huffington loved the videos, so she sent Danny Shaye

541
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: and Dan Katz, who became two really dear friends who

542
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: were her core people at the time things still are now,

543
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: sent them over to meet me in London and they said,

544
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 2: and I went there ready to ask Danny for a job.

545
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: So I said, Danny, you've got to give me a job.

546
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: I want to do this for the rest of my life.

547
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: I'll do it for free. I don't care. I'm here

548
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 2: to work. And he said to me, he said slow down.

549
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: He said, we're going to share your videos on the

550
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: Huffington Post page, and depending on how they do, we'll

551
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: see how this goes. They put out the first video.

552
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: The first video did a million views in seven days,

553
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 2: and I was over the moon. I was just like,

554
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: I can't believe this, and they were like, yeah, that's

555
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: okay for us, Okay. Then then then they put out

556
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 2: the second video, and the second video did a million

557
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 2: views in twenty four hours, and they go, Okay, there's

558
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: something happening here. Then we put out the third video.

559
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 2: The third video did a million views in sixteen hours,

560
00:28:58,400 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: and then it just went from there and those four

561
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: as we made probably have done around two hundred million

562
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: views across different platforms at the time.

563
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: By the way, can I just interject and say, God

564
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: bless Arianna Huffington, who I love, who is one of

565
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: the most generous people on the planet, and gosh, I

566
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: wonder do you ever think she If Arianna hadn't seen something.

567
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: It would have taken so much longer, and maybe it

568
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: would never have happened.

569
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: As as you know, Foster still see Arianna all the time. Yeah,

570
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: I hope you send her flowers every day.

571
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: She knows how much she knows how much I love

572
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 2: her and I appreciate her so deeply, and I'm so

573
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 2: grateful to her, And I think everyone needs that. Everyone

574
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: needs someone like that who allows their work and their

575
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: world to be seen and put out there.

576
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: But how wonderful she saw something in you, right, And

577
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: I always think it only takes one person to see

578
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: a spark or something in another person to just give

579
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: them a chance. Yeah, you think of how much untapped

580
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: talent is out there, but they just haven't had someone say, hey,

581
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: I want to give you this opportunity. Absolutely, and I'm

582
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: so happy she did because you went from I guess

583
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: those videos on Huffington Post to your podcast, right, I mean,

584
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: tell me what happened after that, because your trajectory must

585
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: have been straight up.

586
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 2: Well, it's never that easy. There's always so many pivots

587
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: to the story. So yeah, I'm over the moon that

588
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: my videos are doing well. And then I messaged and

589
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: email Danny Shay every day for thirty days and begged

590
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: him for a job. I said, come on, these stats

591
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: have to prove to you that I should be doing

592
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 2: this full time. And I messaged him every day and I Saidanny,

593
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to message you for the rest of my

594
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: life until you give me a job.

595
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: He just wanted you to stop messaging.

596
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

597
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Danny goes all right. And then Danny and

598
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 2: Ariana figured out my visa. I moved to the United

599
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: States and moved to New York in twenty sixteen, and

600
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: they gave me a role at the Huffington Post. And

601
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: the most funny thing happened the day I landed in

602
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 2: New York. My first day was Ariana's last day because

603
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: she left to start Thrive, and it was I was

604
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 2: at her leaving party on my arrival day.

605
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: That's so funny, and it was.

606
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: So. I was there for six months, and then I

607
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 2: went off in twenty seventeen to build my own world.

608
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: And it wasn't easy, you know. Twenty seventeen was a

609
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: year of me figuring out how to do this and

610
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: how it would land, and what we would build and

611
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: content was in its early stages, and you.

612
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: Know it was intermediation.

613
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you couldn't monetize it immediately. You're spending money creating content.

614
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: It was a really interesting year and I really really

615
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: wanted to do more long form content. I was making

616
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: these four minute videos, and these videos at the time

617
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 2: were doing two hundred, three hundred and one hundred million

618
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: views of video. But I really felt that I had

619
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 2: more to share and more stories to tell, and there

620
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 2: was more to understand.

621
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: And also more people you wanted to talk to, right,

622
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: absolute kind of going back to your monk.

623
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: To study people, to study people. And so I ended

624
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: up pitching again to another bunch of podcast networks my

625
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 2: podcast idea, and the feedback I got was we're not

626
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: interested or j people like listening to you for four minutes.

627
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: No one wants to listen to you for an hour.

628
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: And I had a company that pulled I had a

629
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 2: company that pulled out two weeks before we launched on

630
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: purpose because they felt it wasn't going to be a

631
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: big podcast.

632
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: In those words, do you ever call those people and

633
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: the only petty one.

634
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 2: No, I'll tell you why, and I'll tell you why.

635
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: So that thought has crossed my mind, I would be

636
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 2: lying if that thought hadn't crossed my mind. The thoughts

637
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: crossed my mind. I'll tell you why they did me

638
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: the biggest favor in the world, Because I own my work,

639
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: like through and through, we own everything we've ever created.

640
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 2: I've they gave me the biggest blessing of my life.

641
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: We didn't sign any bad contracts. We didn't sign any

642
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 2: bad deals. At that point, I would have written half

643
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: my life away for an opportunity. We didn't. And so

644
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: I'm extremely grateful to everyone who said no, because it

645
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 2: meant that we built our own platform from scratch, with

646
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 2: our own investment and our own hard work.

647
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: So now you've written two New York Times bestsellers, you

648
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: have your podcast which is enormously popular called on Purpose,

649
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: which is very clever. Purpose is your bag. And I'm curious,

650
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: as somebody who I consider myself a pretty good communicator,

651
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: and I'd love to learn from you what you think

652
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: makes your podcasts so effective and how I could do better.

653
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure I can't give you any tips.

654
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 2: That's very no.

655
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: I think you could actually and I think part of

656
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: a really important aspect of life. And you must agree

657
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: with this is to always want to learn and grow

658
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: absolutely and never feel like you can improve or get

659
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: better at something. So I say this with not false modesty,

660
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: but with genuine curiosity. Tell me a little bit about

661
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: your approach with guests.

662
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think everyone creates a different atmosphere. I'm

663
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: communicating differently today because of the energy you've created. So

664
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: I'm far more subdued today. My tone is far more

665
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 2: calm and still and peaceful than it often is.

666
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: Am I overwhelming?

667
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 2: No, not at all. It's because you've created a really

668
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: still environment in this room and I can sense that,

669
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 2: and therefore I'm responding to that in a positive way,

670
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: and it's bringing out a type of communication in me

671
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: that requires this type of stillness to come out. And

672
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: that's something you've crafted and created.

673
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 3: And physical surroundings, not not even the physical surroundings, because

674
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 3: I think the way you talk and the pace at

675
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 3: which you talk informs me as to how this conversation

676
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 3: is flowing.

677
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 2: I was on a podcast earlier today and we were

678
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 2: talking really fast, and I was talking really fast, and

679
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,720
Speaker 2: it was really animated. I was using my hands and

680
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: my tone's going up and downwards. Today, I'm with you

681
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 2: I'm not there, and that it's not a good or

682
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 2: bad thing. I think the beauty of podcasting, or the

683
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 2: beauty of any interview format is the interviewer gets to

684
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 2: guide the tone and the pace and the quality of

685
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 2: the conversation. And I think whether you talk fast or slow,

686
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 2: it's not about the pace, It's that both are creating

687
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: the environment right for the community and the audience. And

688
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 2: so for me with my podcast, my goal was always

689
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 2: to create a deep, safe space for raw vulnerability and

690
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 2: for people to share things that they were uncomfortable.

691
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: With and they do and they do. Tom Holland shared

692
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: something very personal about his drinking.

693
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: Yes yeah, his sobriety journey, which was really beautiful of

694
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: him to share. I know so many people message me

695
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 2: after that podcast and told him too, saying just how

696
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 2: much that's helped them in their journey. And that was

697
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: my goal. My goal was I wanted people that you

698
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: recognized to share a part of themselves that you'd never seen,

699
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: or I wanted people you didn't recognize to share insights

700
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 2: that you'd never heard. And my hope was that the

701
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 2: audience in our community would feel so seen, heard and

702
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: understood because the guest felt seen, heard, and understood, and

703
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: that would translate to the people at home. And so

704
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 2: my podcast was not mental or technical, or theoretical or philosophical.

705
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 2: It was deeply emotional and inside our hearts. And that

706
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: was my goal, was to lead a podcast from the heart,

707
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 2: not the mind.

708
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: You've had so many well known people. I'm curious who

709
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: has surprised you in that environment, who has been very

710
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: different than you thought they would be.

711
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: I'd say everyone's been different in the way I thought

712
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 2: they'd be, because everyone's far more Everyone has so much

713
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 2: more depth than I think of that with humanity in general,

714
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: I feel everyone has a store, everyone has so much

715
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: more depth than we uncover. One person that comes to

716
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: mind immediately is Brian Chesky, the found I love Brian too.

717
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 2: I absolutely adore.

718
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: He started Airbnb for yeah, the.

719
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 2: Founder of Brian Chesky, one of the founders of Airbnb,

720
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 2: founded it with his two friends and he came on

721
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: the show. And what I love about him is that

722
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 2: he's just not a tech founder's he's an artist. He's

723
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 2: a right yeah, he's a design think right. And what

724
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: I loved about that episode with him is after the

725
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 2: interview told me he's so used to being asked, what

726
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 2: does it feel like to IPO or build a you know,

727
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 2: mega billion dollar company, And we didn't talk about that,

728
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,879
Speaker 2: And that's always my goal. My goal is to ask

729
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: you the question that you never get asked because people

730
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: may not want you to go that deep, or they

731
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: may not think you're able to go that deep. But

732
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: I believe everyone is able to go that deep. And

733
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: you'll see if anyone watches it or listens to the episode,

734
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: you see Brian almost walking us through the visions of

735
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: what he's building in a company in his mind, and

736
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 2: it turns into somewhat of a collaborative visualization session as

737
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 2: opposed to an interview. And it was just a beautiful

738
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 2: experience and we both walked away becoming really good friends

739
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 2: off of it, and it just created a beautiful relationship.

740
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 2: So I think people like that surprised me in a

741
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 2: positive sense. I knew he could go there, but surprised

742
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: me in the sense of he was so willing to

743
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 2: go there, so vulnerable to share his own journey.

744
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: You officiated Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez's wedding.

745
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: What, Yeah, it was a really fun experience.

746
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 1: How did that happen?

747
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 2: Share Jennifer Lops came on the podcast in twenty twenty

748
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 2: at the beginning of twenty twenty, and that's when we

749
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: first connected and we really got along. We hit it off,

750
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 2: and then we stayed in touch and we were connected,

751
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 2: and then she invited me to officiate weddings at the

752
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: launch of her Marry Me musical performance, so there were

753
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: people from her community that her and Maluma were the

754
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 2: witnesses and I was officiating the weddings. We stayed connected,

755
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 2: had lots of conversations, and then when I was asked

756
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 2: to do this, I mean I was getting invited to

757
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 2: someone's wedding is pretty spectacular, let alone having to officiate,

758
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: and I was the most nervous, anxious, and you know,

759
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: anxious wreck that I'd ever been because I was like, wow,

760
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: like this is a lot of pressure and it's pretty

761
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 2: hard to do something like this. But we had a

762
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 2: really beautiful chat to really understand the type of ceremony

763
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 2: they wanted, and then on the day it was just

764
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 2: one of the most surreal experiences of my life because

765
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: I love love, I love everything to do with romance,

766
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 2: and I'm having the experience of like am I in

767
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,959
Speaker 2: a movie or am I in reality because I've only

768
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 2: ever seen weddings like this in a movie, and I'm like, no, no, no,

769
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 2: this is real. Get back into reality, and then just

770
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 2: trying to convince myself to not cry because I love

771
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 2: crying at weddings, like I will cry at everyone's wedding

772
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 2: because I love love, and so the whole time while

773
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: then standing right next to me and he's shedding a

774
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 2: tear and Jennifer's walking down the aisle and the dress

775
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 2: and everyone's looking at her, and I'm just like, Jay,

776
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 2: do not cry. This is not about you. Do not cry,

777
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 2: and just holding it together the whole time. But it was.

778
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: It was really a beautiful experience. I was so grateful

779
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 2: for the opportunity and it will truly always remain as

780
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 2: one of the most you know, special memories that will

781
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 2: cherish for a long long time.

782
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: When we come back. How Jay balances his desire for

783
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: death and purpose with a life that's gotten pretty snazzy.

784
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: We're back with Jay Shetty. I'm curious, since you have

785
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: become friends with a lot of fancy people and have

786
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: a lot of well known folks on your podcast, does

787
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 1: that ever come into conflict with sort of your core

788
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: message or has it made people look at you differently

789
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: and maybe do sometimes because of the fact that you're

790
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,959
Speaker 1: well known and celebrity and fame come with a lot

791
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: of good things but also some tough things. Has that

792
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: been hard for you to balance in a way?

793
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that all my close friendships in

794
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: that space have originated from really organic, deep conversations. So

795
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 2: any friends that I have in and I'm assuming what

796
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 2: you're referring to as celebrity friends are all because all

797
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 2: of our conversations are based on really deep, thoughtful ideals,

798
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: And so for me, it's actually one of the greatest

799
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: joys of my life because I get to talk about

800
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 2: what I care about with people who care about what

801
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: we're talking about and are trying in their own way

802
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 2: to grow, to improve, to learn to And it's been

803
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 2: among the greatest joys of my life to get to

804
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 2: know people with that much depth, because it requires so

805
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 2: much vulnerability and openness from both sides, and so that's

806
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 2: been again something that I cherish for the rest of

807
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 2: my life, and I believe I've made friends for life.

808
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 2: I think on the podcast too. For me, like we

809
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 2: talked about earlier, I've always been fascinated by studying the

810
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 2: lives of incredible journeys and the fact that I get

811
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 2: to sit with those.

812
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: People and accomplished people who have you know, unique talents too, right, yeah.

813
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: And accomplished different things in that. You know, we've had

814
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 2: Lewis Hamilton, who's you know, potentially the greatest Formula one

815
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: racer of all time. And you know, Lewis is a

816
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 2: deep meditator, and he's a deep practitioner, a focus and

817
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 2: he's such a disciplined individual. So I also don't think

818
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 2: it's extrapolating how did you become successful? It's almost like,

819
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 2: how did you become present? And how did you become focused?

820
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: And these are all skills that we all need, so

821
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 2: to me, I'm extrapolating more than how.

822
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: Did you not get screwed up by your success? Right?

823
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 2: Exactly? Exactly like how of these people like Lewis is

824
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 2: a wonderful human And that's what I'm intrigued by, is

825
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 2: how someone maintains their ego in that space. And so

826
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: even the lessons were extrapolate and kind of going back

827
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: to the Brian Cheskey point, I'm not really interested in

828
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 2: asking him, Hey, how did you become worth x billion dollars,

829
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 2: like that's really not I don't really care about that.

830
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 2: I don't ask questions like that on the show. All

831
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: the questions are about humanity and mindset and well being.

832
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: And then, of course it is challenging. I think that

833
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 2: it's natural when people see you interacting with certain groups

834
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 2: or certain people. You know, people have assumptions and judgments,

835
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,919
Speaker 2: and it's never easy being judged. And I've always said,

836
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: whenever anyone judges me, or you hear any criticism or

837
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: whatever it may be, what I'd love to do is

838
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: you'd love to just sit down with each of those

839
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: people and just spend time with them, like have some

840
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 2: tea with them, and just talk to them. And if

841
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 2: only you could do that with a million people, you'd

842
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 2: have to probably see what one hundred people every day

843
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 2: for the rest of your life, and you probably won't

844
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 2: even come close, and so it's really hard. I think

845
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 2: that's what I find challenging, not hearing judgment. I respect

846
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 2: people's opinions, and I recognize the paradoxical nature externally of

847
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 2: what something can look like. I recognize the contradiction externally

848
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 2: of what people may see. But to me, I don't

849
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 2: judge that I totally respect that, but I can't do

850
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 2: anything about it, And so you almost sit there and

851
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 2: allow for it to exist and recognize that you can

852
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: only continue to do the work that's close to your heart.

853
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm curious, you know. I know your most recent book

854
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 1: is The Eight Rules of Love, How to Find It,

855
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: Keep It, and Let It Go. And you previously wrote

856
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty Think like a Monk, and both books

857
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: have done very well. Does anyone ever challenge you and say,

858
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: like Jay Shetty, you're a great guy, but how you know?

859
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: How the hell do you know about this stuff? And

860
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: I guess the question is how did you you accumulate

861
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: such wisdom? And do you always feel confident in your

862
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: ability to be what is in essence a spiritual teacher.

863
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: I think I've tried to live my life in a

864
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 2: way to get as far away from that title as possible.

865
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 2: And I think partly why.

866
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 1: The title of spiritual teacher? Yeah, yeah, that you don't like,

867
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: you feel like guru is really misunderstood.

868
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 2: I think guru is just a very sacred word in

869
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 2: the East. You know, a guru is someone who promises

870
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 2: to dedicate their life to uplifting you out of the

871
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 2: ocean of material misery. Like it's a very deep position.

872
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 2: It's almost like mother or father or even like godfather

873
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 2: or you know, like that godmother like. It has a

874
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 2: very weighty responsibility that comes with it. So you can't

875
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 2: possibly be a guru for the world because then you'd

876
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 2: have to promise to uplift each and every person. It's

877
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 2: almost a vow. And so I respect the word gurul

878
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 2: and it comes with a lot of weight for me.

879
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 2: But I think that I'm more trying to be everyone's

880
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 2: spiritual friend as opposed to a spiritual teacher. And I

881
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 2: think that's because I think the challenge is that teachers

882
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 2: will always let us down because no one's perfect, and

883
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 2: often teaches in their attempt to try and be perfect

884
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 2: or present themselves as perfect and end up letting people

885
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 2: down anyway. And so one of the reasons why I

886
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: enjoy dressing fashionably, why I enjoy living the life I do,

887
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 2: is to kind of take that away, and I'd rather

888
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 2: be a round spiritual friend and not try to be

889
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: someone else. But in terms of the wisdom, as you

890
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,439
Speaker 2: were saying about writing the books, and if I feel

891
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 2: confident about it, I feel confident about my research and

892
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 2: ability to connect ideas more than I do in my teachings,

893
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 2: and I think the idea of what I'm trying to

894
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 2: do in both my books. So whenever I think like

895
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 2: a monk, think like a monk is a deep reset

896
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: study in how monks live. So you'll hear me quote

897
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 2: from Christian monks and Buddhist monks and Hindu monks, and

898
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: you'll hear me share these stories and teachings that have

899
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 2: existed for thousands and thousands of years. So my confidence

900
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 2: isn't in the fact I lived as a monk for

901
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 2: three years. My confidence is in the fact that this

902
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: tradition that has lasted thousands of years must have some

903
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: serious validity for it to last that long. There's very

904
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 2: few things that have lasted a thousand years alone more

905
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: than that. And the fact that some of these books, texts,

906
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 2: and wisdom, traditions and practices have been around, I think

907
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 2: makes me confident that they have validity, especially when I

908
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 2: can draw parallels with modern science. When I wrote The

909
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 2: Love Book, a lot of questions are like, well, what

910
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 2: do you know about love? You have't been married for

911
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 2: that long. And I think that again, if someone reads

912
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 2: the book. I'm not teaching from my marriage. The book

913
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: isn't a book that says, hey, I have a really

914
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 2: successful marriage, why don't you learn from me. It's me

915
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,760
Speaker 2: having spent so much time trying to read and study

916
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: and learn and interviewed couples and spend time with them

917
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 2: who are older than me, far more wiser than me.

918
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: And my job is to curate, synthesize, and share what

919
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: going back to what you were saying, to often communicate

920
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 2: ideas that get lost in academic journals and you know,

921
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 2: college rooms that people may never learn or hear about.

922
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: And so I take confidence in the fact that I

923
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 2: have a great research method. I trust myself and my

924
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: ability to synthesize and make things simple, accessible and practical.

925
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,720
Speaker 2: But my confidence in the wisdom is because the wisdom

926
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 2: exists outside of me and before me.

927
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: There's been so much emphasis on self love. I strongly

928
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: advocate for self love. I think it's great, but I wonder,

929
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: and I'm curious how you feel about this, Jay, Can

930
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: you place so much emphasis on self love, self improvement,

931
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: self in general that it precludes you from being of service,

932
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,479
Speaker 1: from caring about other people, from being attuned to other

933
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: people's needs, which has shown to be the true way

934
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: to happiness. You know, I always believe you get what

935
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: you give, and you know, being kind to other people

936
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: is sort of the key to life. How do you

937
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 1: balance those two things? And I, you know, blah blah.

938
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: I know you can't love other people if you don't

939
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: love yourself, YadA, YadA, YadA. But I sometimes I feel

940
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: like there's so much self focus it prevents people from

941
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 1: looking outside of themselves.

942
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the beautiful lesson that I learned during

943
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 2: my time as a monk was that the reason you

944
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 2: take care of yourself is to serve others. So therefore

945
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: it's symbiotic in that.

946
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: Do you feel like it's symbiotic in our current culture?

947
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 2: I would say that because culture generally oscillates between extremes,

948
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 2: we often have to go to one extreme and then

949
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 2: go to the other to find the middle path. And

950
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 2: so maybe we lived in a culture where people we're

951
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 2: just trying to help other people. I don't even know

952
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 2: if we ever lived there, but let's say let's say

953
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 2: that we live there, or at least some people did,

954
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 2: like maybe mothers did. Right, Let's say that we can

955
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 2: probably agree on that that a lot of mothers maybe

956
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 2: lived quite.

957
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: A and sacrifice, sacrifice the lot.

958
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 2: And sacrifice their life. Right, there was a part of

959
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 2: society that we could agree with that with that one,

960
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: hopefully it's a lot of moms. And so if mothers

961
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 2: did that, then sometimes I think we have to oscillate

962
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 2: to the other extreme of okay, just take care of

963
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 2: yourself now, and then society evolves to recognize, well, actually,

964
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 2: the reason I take care of myself is so that

965
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 2: I can extend myself to others. And so I feel

966
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 2: that that's kind of how I watch things kind of

967
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 2: evolve in society. I don't think things ever evolve in

968
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 2: the way you want them to. We kind of do

969
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 2: do the pendulum swing because we're trying to find the middle.

970
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 2: We're trying to get that pendulum to land perfectly, but

971
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 2: it doesn't, and we keep going. It's almost like saying,

972
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 2: should we hustle or should we meditate? Some people are like,

973
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 2: if you want to be successfully, you have to hustle,

974
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: and some if you want to be successfully, have to

975
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 2: meditate to be still, and it's like, well, you actually

976
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 2: need to do both. But we kind of oscillate between

977
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 2: the extreme. So I think with everything. I think the

978
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 2: point is that I'm making is it's the reason you

979
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: take care of yourself is more important than even taking

980
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 2: care of yourself. So I take care of myself and

981
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 2: my health and my well being so that I can

982
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 2: do more for others, as opposed to I'm taking care

983
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 2: of myself because I'm the most important person in the

984
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 2: world and nothing else matters. I think that intention makes

985
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: us more hard hearted. And you know, you don't want

986
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 2: to become more hard hearted. You want to become more

987
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: soft hearted. And when we do hard things, we often

988
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: do just become harder and harder and harder. And the

989
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 2: goal is to become softer while you do hard things,

990
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 2: because actually, when you're doing something difficult, the goal is

991
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 2: you should become more compassionate because you realize how hard

992
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 2: it is for anyone else to do it. And so

993
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 2: I think surrender and self love and service should create

994
00:51:55,160 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 2: a softer heart because you start recognizing how steep climate

995
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: is for you, and therefore how steep a climate is

996
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: for anyone you're trying to help.

997
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: Tell me about your wife.

998
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 2: She's a chef, she's a plant based recipe developer, and

999
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 2: she has a cookbook coming out and that's exciting. Yeah,

1000
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 2: she's she has her own YouTube. So we tell this

1001
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 2: story I love infest. We tell this story in full

1002
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: on my first ever podcast on Purpose of How I

1003
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 2: met my wife, And the short version that I'll tell

1004
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 2: you here is I was in my final year of

1005
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 2: university and I knew I was going to become a monk,

1006
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 2: so I would go to my local temple to serve

1007
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 2: and stay out of trouble. Because as soon as you

1008
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 2: make a commitment thinking you're going to become a monk,

1009
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 2: the allures of life become very amplified. And so I

1010
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 2: was trying to stay out of trouble. And while I

1011
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 2: was trying to stay out of trouble, I was asked

1012
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 2: to show a lady around the temple with services and

1013
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: certain chores and certain rituals at the temple. She was

1014
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 2: around my mom's aid age, and so I was showing

1015
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 2: her around, and then afterwards she said to me, I

1016
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 2: have a daughter that i'd love to introduce into spirituality.

1017
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 2: She's around your age. How do I do that? And

1018
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 2: I said, well, I'm going off to become a monk,

1019
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 2: but I can introduce her to my sister, and my

1020
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:13,959
Speaker 2: sister's I'm sure.

1021
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 1: Oh it's I'm going I'm about to go off and

1022
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 1: be a monk. Excuse, Yeah, that was that.

1023
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 2: Was my excuse. And so she brought a daughter, and

1024
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 2: I did invite my sister so that they could connect,

1025
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 2: and that happened to me. My wife's mom and she

1026
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 2: was bringing her daughter to learn more about spirituality, and

1027
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 2: so I introduced my now wife and my sister and

1028
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 2: I went off became a monk. They became best friends.

1029
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 2: And so when I came back from the monastery, she

1030
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 2: was at my house all the time, and so my

1031
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 2: sister was the person who was our go in between.

1032
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 2: It was like, she likes you, and then you know,

1033
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 2: my my liking of her back. But the first time

1034
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 2: I saw her, I thought she was the most beautiful

1035
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 2: person I'd ever seen. And if you ask her, she

1036
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 2: was saying, yeah, I didn't feel anything. So so it

1037
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 2: was good that I became a monk then because I

1038
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 2: didn't have a shot at that time, so I didn't

1039
00:53:59,080 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 2: have a chance.

1040
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: How many years have you ever made?

1041
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 2: We've been together for eleven years and married for eight

1042
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 2: and so it's been it's been many not yet, no,

1043
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 2: not yet. We've been through so much change together. We

1044
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 2: got married, we moved to New York, we moved to

1045
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 2: la we both quit our jobs in London. We transition.

1046
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 2: There's been so much change in chaos in our lives

1047
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 2: in a good way, and I think, you know, we've

1048
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 2: been lucky to become closer through it, and I think

1049
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 2: that's been a priority for us. I think if we

1050
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 2: would have added kids to that, I think it may

1051
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:29,439
Speaker 2: have hampered our relationship with each other.

1052
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: Let me ask you a couple of questions from my

1053
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: social media followers. Gosh, social media has come along with

1054
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 1: sn't it goodness? Does positive self talk really work?

1055
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 2: Great question? So that to answer that question, you have

1056
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 2: to understand that self talk already exists. And I think

1057
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 2: people don't think about this. When we hear the word

1058
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 2: positive self talk, we like it. Does it really work well?

1059
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 2: Negative self talk works? I'm guessing that everyone says in

1060
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 2: their mind at some point, I don't think I'm good enough. No,

1061
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 2: I shouldn' do that. I probably won't make it. I

1062
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 2: probably won't work for me. We're all practicing negative self

1063
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 2: talk every day by default, regardless, and it's working because

1064
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 2: it's making us more miserable. It's making us sad. It's

1065
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 2: making us not believe in ourselves. I was reading a

1066
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 2: study the other day that was talking about there's two

1067
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 2: types of voice in our head. One is I am lazy,

1068
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 2: I am not good enough, and the other voice we

1069
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 2: have in our head says you're lazy, you're not good enough,

1070
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,720
Speaker 2: And that often is even worse and harder to handle

1071
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 2: as in a critic, because it sounds like an authority

1072
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 2: figure in our minds telling us. And often that voice

1073
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 2: has been picked up from family members, teachers, partners, friends,

1074
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: ex boyfriends, girlfriends, whatever else it may be. We've adopted

1075
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: someone else's voice as our own. And so positive self

1076
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 2: talk isn't saying you're the best, you're amazing, you can

1077
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 2: do anything you want, right like, that's not positive self talk.

1078
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 2: I don't love the words negative and positive when it

1079
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 2: comes to self talk. I like the way of coaching yourself.

1080
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is, if you were

1081
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 2: with a coach who is trying to help you become

1082
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 2: better and improve, how would they talk to you. People

1083
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 2: often say talk to yourself as if you talk to

1084
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 2: your friend, and I think people struggle with that. But

1085
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 2: talk to yourself the way you believe a good coach

1086
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 2: would talk to you to get the most out of you.

1087
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 2: How would they understand how to challenge you, how to

1088
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 2: check you, how to encourage you, how to champion you.

1089
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 2: And so, to me, positive self talk, a healthier version

1090
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 2: of that is me saying, for example, if I wake

1091
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 2: up and go, I'm so tired, right, positive self talk

1092
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 2: would be I'm so energized. Now. That doesn't work because

1093
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 2: you can't just fly to yourself and your mind's not

1094
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 2: going to believe it. So the actionable item is I

1095
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 2: am tired and I will go to sleep early tonight.

1096
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 2: It's an acceptance of how you feel with an action

1097
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,760
Speaker 2: of how to make it better. I am not good enough,

1098
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 2: and I can learn how to improve. It's the accepting

1099
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 2: of how we're feeling right now with an action of

1100
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 2: how we can be better, of how we can grow.

1101
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 2: And so that's what I would recommend to anyone who's

1102
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 2: trying to learn what positive self talk.

1103
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: Is or giving yourself grace. I am tired because I

1104
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: went to bed late last night, and I should be tired, right.

1105
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: I think this sort of self flagellation that we sometimes

1106
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: resort to, I don't know. I give myself a lot

1107
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: of grace.

1108
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 2: I'm really excited, so yeah, me too. You have to,

1109
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 2: I mean, especially if you're living a high stress life,

1110
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 2: which I think so much of the population is today.

1111
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 2: You have to give yourself grace because you're all trying

1112
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 2: to do everything. We're trying to be perfect parents, we're

1113
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 2: trying to be perfect professionals, we're trying to be perfect partners.

1114
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 2: Of course, we're going to fail at one of those things,

1115
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 2: if not more. And you can't guilt yourself into growth.

1116
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 2: That's what we have to understand. You can't guilt yourself

1117
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 2: into achieving your goals. We don't respond to guilt or

1118
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 2: blame or shame. When was the last time someone shamed

1119
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 2: you into becoming better? It doesn't work that way. We

1120
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 2: become better because someone believes in us. We become better

1121
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 2: because we believe there's an opportunity to become better, because

1122
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 2: we feel that someone supports us and loves us no

1123
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 2: matter what. That's what inspires humans to become better. Or

1124
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 2: the opposite, where there's lots of pain and lots of

1125
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 2: loss and lots of stress as well, can do that,

1126
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 2: but there has to be grace in both.

1127
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: That's perfect segue to this next question, which is how

1128
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: to deal with the grief of a lost soulmate and

1129
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: how to live life after loss. I'm really struggling, and

1130
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: someone else asked the best approach to dealing with grief.

1131
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 2: Katie, I was going to say, you're the person to

1132
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 2: answer that, not me, you know, from what we're speaking

1133
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 2: about before. I mean, you're the only person who can

1134
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 2: genuinely answer that from an untheoretical point of view.

1135
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: We were talking earlier, by the way, that today is

1136
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: the twenty sixth anniversary of my husband's death, which is

1137
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 1: so hard to fathom, and it's always the sad day

1138
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: of course. Gosh, you know, it's different for every person,

1139
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 1: and each circumstance is different. I think for me, you know,

1140
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: I had two small children who were six and two

1141
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 1: when their dad died, and I think for me, I

1142
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: never thought that Jay, my husband, would want to impact

1143
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 1: their lives in a negative way the fact that he died,

1144
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 1: and so I think I wanted their lives to be

1145
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: full of joy, and I also think I wanted to

1146
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: have joy in my life. And as hard as losing

1147
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: someone is, I think the challenge is to make sure

1148
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 1: that that death doesn't pull so many other people down

1149
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 1: with it, and I think I came to terms with

1150
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 1: this idea that we're all terminal. Nobody. My dad used

1151
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 1: to say, no man knows his time or place. Life

1152
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: is so fragile, and that you just have to make

1153
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: the most of whatever time you have. And that doesn't

1154
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: mean not mourning the loss of someone you love, not

1155
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 1: missing that person terribly. But I think it just means

1156
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: trying to move forward with a life of purpose and joy.

1157
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 1: But it's very hard to be prescriptive with questions like

1158
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: this because everyone we're all so different, and our relationships

1159
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: are different, and we contain multitudes as we Whitman said,

1160
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 1: So I hate to really give advice, but I do

1161
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 1: believe in almost every case that it gets better with time.

1162
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 1: People say it's like carrying a big heavy stone in

1163
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 1: your pocket. It's always there, but it just doesn't feel

1164
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 1: as heavy after a while. But what advice would you give?

1165
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you must talk to a lot

1166
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 1: of people as an observer of humanity. What advice would

1167
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: you give those people? I'm curious.

1168
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I don't think

1169
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 2: we can be prescriptive or you know, especially in this

1170
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 2: kind of situation and I haven't lost a soulmate, so

1171
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 2: I can only define it. I can only express like

1172
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 2: you did your own experience. And during the pandemic, I

1173
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 2: lost two people who were very close to me. One

1174
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 2: was my spiritual mentor, who died of stage four brain

1175
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 2: cancer and so I couldn't go back to his funeral.

1176
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 2: And then another friend who was my closest friend when

1177
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 2: I was a monk. He was still a monk when

1178
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 2: he died, and he died of colon cancer.

1179
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 1: Again during life, my husband died of wow.

1180
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so at the same time. So my monk

1181
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 2: friend was around my age, in his thirties, and my

1182
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 2: spiritual mentor was in his sixties. And I can honestly

1183
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 2: say that I missed them both deeply every day for

1184
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 2: different reasons. But I let them live on in my

1185
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 2: life by living as the person they both wanted me

1186
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 2: to be, and by sharing the wisdom they shared with

1187
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 2: me with others. And so I find that to me,

1188
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 2: they're still living with me in their presence and spirit

1189
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 2: and energy.

1190
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: I'm so unfair, though, isn't it. I Mean, I think

1191
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 1: that's what upsets me the most, that these things are

1192
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 1: so random, Like why did your friend who was a

1193
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: monk in his thirties get diagnosed with colon cancer. I mean,

1194
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 1: it's just so random. What upsets me so much is

1195
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 1: what these people miss out on. It makes me feel

1196
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 1: so terrible that my husband didn't get to walk our

1197
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 1: daughter down the aisle, he didn't experience becoming a grandfather.

1198
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: It's just so sad to me.

1199
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's why the only thing we can do

1200
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 2: is experience it on behalf of them and more deeply

1201
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 2: for them as well. And maybe we would not have

1202
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 2: experienced these things, is deeply if we hadn't had that

1203
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 2: experience with them. That's all we can do, you know,

1204
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 2: That's all that we're left with. I find that often

1205
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 2: these things can be sometimes when you haven't had that perspective,

1206
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 2: you may not even approach these moments with that much

1207
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 2: depth and that much clarity and that much presence, because

1208
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 2: these moments force you to do that. And I think

1209
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 2: doing things on behalf of those people is still a

1210
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 2: beautiful spiritual practice. And you know, I dedicated I went

1211
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 2: on a world tour last year and my London show

1212
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 2: was dedicated to my spiritual mentor who lived in London.

1213
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 2: And you know, when I was saying it on stage

1214
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 2: at the end of the show. I was about to

1215
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 2: break down after like, you know, being on stage and

1216
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 2: performing and everything else. But you know, I felt like

1217
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 2: I was. I knew he'd be happy and he was

1218
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 2: getting to experience it in some way even when he

1219
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 2: wasn't physically there.

1220
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you, do you believe in

1221
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 1: life after death?

1222
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? The Eastern perspective is quite clear on reincarnation, which

1223
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 2: is a fascinating concept.

1224
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 1: Do you believe in reincarnation?

1225
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 2: I do.

1226
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 1: I want to come back as a cat.

1227
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's possible. That's very, very possible. I read a

1228
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 2: really beautiful book called Old Sold many years ago by

1229
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 2: Ian Stevenson, and he documents many different experiences and interactions

1230
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 2: with reincarnation past lives, and it's really spectacular. If anyone's

1231
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 2: curious to hear about it from a more research based

1232
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 2: perspective as opposed to a spiritual perspective, that book Old

1233
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 2: Sold by doctor Ian Stephenson is really remarkable.

1234
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: I'd like to check that out. Last question, I promise

1235
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 1: you have to go. I have to go. But it's

1236
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 1: been so fun. By the way, I think I see

1237
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: why you're such an effective podcaster because suddenly I'm talking

1238
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 1: about all these intensely personal things with you, Jason. I

1239
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: think it's your voice or your accent, or are there something.

1240
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 2: My voice is usually quite different when it's my podcast.

1241
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 2: But you you brought this very sober version of me today.

1242
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: I don't think it's sober. I think it's gentle and calm.

1243
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 2: Well, you brought that more of me today.

1244
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: I don't usually have that effect.

1245
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, today, that effect on me today.

1246
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 1: What is the best advice you've ever gotten?

1247
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 2: I'm going to share one with you that I haven't

1248
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:13,440
Speaker 2: shared before because I answered this recently and we had

1249
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 2: a clip that went viral with me sharing the advice

1250
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 2: that I did, which.

1251
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: We don't want this to go virul.

1252
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 2: I consider the same thing. I consider the same thing.

1253
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 1: No, you don't have to up.

1254
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 2: No, I said something on that it was No, I'll

1255
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 2: say it because it is the best advice. It's it's

1256
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 2: honestly the best advice I've ever received. So it's from

1257
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 2: my spiritual mental that I just spoke about. I remember

1258
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 2: going to him. I'd left the monastery and I went

1259
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 2: to him and I said, I have so many ideas

1260
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 2: of things I want to do to help people, but

1261
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 2: I have no idea where to start. I don't know

1262
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 2: what's going to work. I don't know what's going to

1263
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 2: make an impact. I don't know what's going to matter.

1264
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 2: And he said to me, he said, open every door possible,

1265
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 2: and then observe which doors close and which doors stay open,

1266
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 2: and keep walking through the ones that stay open, because

1267
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 2: those are the doors that were meant for you. And

1268
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 2: I think it's the best advice I've ever received, because

1269
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 2: I'm only here today sitting with you and talking about

1270
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 2: all of this, because I've just tried, and I still

1271
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 2: do try to open every door possible in order for

1272
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 2: me to live my purpose. I've had so many doors

1273
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 2: close on me. I've just kept walking through the ones

1274
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 2: that remain open because I believe those are the right doors.

1275
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 2: And so anyone out there who's struggling to find direction

1276
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 2: or what's the right path or what's the right choice,

1277
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 2: to be honest, no one knows. All you can do

1278
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 2: is try everything and see what remains open, because what

1279
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 2: remains open is your path, not what you hope will be.

1280
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, that's the best advice I've ever received.

1281
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 1: Well, this was such a fun conversation and fascinating and deep.

1282
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 1: It was very yeah, So thank you, Jay. This is

1283
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 1: really lovely. I appreciate it.

1284
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I'm so grateful honestly, and it

1285
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 2: was wonderful to spend this time with you. Genuinely.

1286
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you, Thanks for listening everyone.

1287
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: If you have a question for me, a subject you

1288
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 1: want us to cover, or you want to share your

1289
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 1: thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world reach out.

1290
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 1: You can leave a short message at six oh nine

1291
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 1: five one two five to five five, or you can

1292
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 1: send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to

1293
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia

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Speaker 1: and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric,

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Speaker 1: and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and

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Speaker 1: our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller

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Speaker 1: composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,

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Speaker 1: or to sign up for my newsletter wake Up Call,

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Speaker 1: go to the description in the podcast app or visit

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Speaker 1: us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me

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Speaker 1: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more

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Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.