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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the Whitetail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Kip Adams, the Chief Conservation

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Speaker 2: Officer for the National Deer Association, to discuss the state

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Speaker 2: of white tails in twenty twenty four and the issues

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Speaker 2: that we deer hunters need to be aware of. All right,

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to

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Speaker 2: you by First Light and their Camel for Conservation initiative,

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Speaker 2: which gives money back to the National Deer Association from

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Speaker 2: every purchase of First Light's spector Whitetail Camo. Big fan

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Speaker 2: of the past, big fan of the program. Thanks for

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Speaker 2: supporting both and our guest today works for the National

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Speaker 2: Deer Association. As I mentioned in the intro, he is

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Speaker 2: the chief Conservation Officer, Kip Adams. Kip is someone who

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Speaker 2: hopefully you've all heard from and heard of. He's been

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Speaker 2: on the show many times. He is a tremendous resource.

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Speaker 2: He has a wealth of information at his fingertips a

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Speaker 2: wildlife biologist and now has been working for the NDA

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Speaker 2: for a long time. One of the best educators, the

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Speaker 2: speakers out there when it comes to dear related issues,

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Speaker 2: dear education, dear biology, you name it, Kip can talk

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Speaker 2: to you about it. And he is one of the

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Speaker 2: people working on this Deer Report that the NDA puts

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Speaker 2: out every year. This Deer Report goes through and compiles

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Speaker 2: data on all sorts of different things related to the

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Speaker 2: deer population across the country and deer hunting. So today

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Speaker 2: our conversation goes through what the main takeaways are when

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Speaker 2: it comes to trends within deer hunting and deer harvest.

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Speaker 2: You know, how are we doing? Is deer harvest up?

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Speaker 2: Is it down? Bucks, dos AID, structure, all that kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff. We cover it. We also dive into some

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Speaker 2: of the issues of importance that we deer hunters need

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Speaker 2: to be keeping tabs on, maybe taking action on UH

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Speaker 2: stuff like where things stand on chronic wasting disease, things

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Speaker 2: related to ballot box biology and you know the changing

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Speaker 2: composition of UH. You know, wildlife commissions in different states.

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Speaker 2: The people who are overseeing are managing agencies UH do

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Speaker 2: we need to do. We need to know about what's

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Speaker 2: going on there. We talk about the importance of prescribed fire.

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Speaker 2: We talk about the importance of and if we can

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Speaker 2: have any influence on, you know, deer UH donation programs,

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Speaker 2: venison donation programs. We talk about the continuing challenges that

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Speaker 2: we're having in many parts of the country managing our

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Speaker 2: antalyst population. Why that's something that we deer hunters need

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Speaker 2: to be paying attention to and acting on ourselves. So

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Speaker 2: that's kind of stuff we cover today. If you are

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Speaker 2: a deer hunter here in America, this is something you

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Speaker 2: need to listen to. I highly recommend you go and

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Speaker 2: download a copy of the Deer Report for yourself. Review

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Speaker 2: this information in its entirety. We cover just a fraction

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Speaker 2: of what's in that report, but it's some important stuff.

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Speaker 2: I think this is the kind of information that arms

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Speaker 2: you to be not just a better deer hunter, but

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Speaker 2: someone who can influence the future of deer hunting in

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Speaker 2: a positive way. Right, knowledge is power. We need to

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Speaker 2: understand the landscape. We need to understand what's going on

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Speaker 2: if we want to make sure that it stays good

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Speaker 2: and healthy and around for us in future years and

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Speaker 2: for our kids and our grandkids and all those that follow.

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Speaker 2: So that's the plan. That's the podcast today. Kip always

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Speaker 2: makes it interesting, he keeps it fun. This is a

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Speaker 2: good one. I hope you'll tune in and enjoy the

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Speaker 2: restless episode. And I thank you for being here all

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Speaker 2: right back with me now on the show for I

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Speaker 2: don't know the sixth seventh, eighth appearance. It's been a lot. Now, Kip,

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Speaker 2: I've got Kip Adams here with me on the line.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for joining me, my friend.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's good to see you, Mark. And yeah, I

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Speaker 3: always always look forward to being with you once our

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Speaker 3: annual deer report comes out, so we have done a

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Speaker 3: bunch of them together.

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Speaker 2: We have. There has been not many years of the

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Speaker 2: podcast in which we have not had you on the

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Speaker 2: show to either review the deer Report or something similar.

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Speaker 2: So I'm glad the trend continues. And before we get

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Speaker 2: into the state of white tails across America, I have

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Speaker 2: to ask, what's the state of white tails in the

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Speaker 2: Adams family. How was the twenty four or the twenty

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Speaker 2: three season for you?

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Speaker 3: It was it was a little slower than many. We've

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Speaker 3: been very lucky in both my family and my hunting camp.

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Speaker 3: We've had several really good deer seasons in a row,

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Speaker 3: so we were due for maybe a little off season,

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Speaker 3: and we had some really late frost this year late May.

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Speaker 3: We had three frosts out of four days at the

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Speaker 3: end of May, which is za all of our acorns.

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Speaker 3: We lost all of our apples. We actually had some

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Speaker 3: oak trees will and we lost mature oak trees. What

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Speaker 3: that means for us is that we have a bunch

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Speaker 3: of other food sources, but certainly acorns you know, can

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Speaker 3: make or break, not make or break, acorns can have

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Speaker 3: a big impact on deer season. We had no acorns

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Speaker 3: and no other mess, which meant we didn't see as

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Speaker 3: many deer as we normally do, so we had a

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Speaker 3: lot of fun. We put deer in the freezer. We

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Speaker 3: still have a very traditional Pennsylvania deer camp with a

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Speaker 3: bunch of family and friends there, so we had a

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Speaker 3: really good time. But it's the first time since twenty

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Speaker 3: eleven that we did not kill a buck at our camp.

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Speaker 3: So the two biggest bucks that we know we're there.

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Speaker 3: We still had pictures of all the way through the

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Speaker 3: end of our firearm season. We just never saw either

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Speaker 3: of them. So we had a lot of fun. We

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Speaker 3: didn't have as good of a year from a buck

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Speaker 3: standpoint as we typically do, but that just means that

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Speaker 3: they're going to be that much bigger and older next year.

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Speaker 3: So high high hopes for the upcoming season.

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Speaker 2: So with that, with that the mass issues you talked

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Speaker 2: about there, does that portend any kind of concern for

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Speaker 2: the future as far as the impact that could have

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Speaker 2: on you know, survival over the winter or anything, or

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Speaker 2: or is that something you're not too worried about.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm not worried about that. You know, we're even

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Speaker 3: we get some pretty hard winters here at times, but uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, deer deer live way north of us and

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Speaker 3: then do pretty well, you know, on winter. So even

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Speaker 3: if we don't have you know, that mass, you know,

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Speaker 3: our deer aren't going to die. It more impacts daily

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Speaker 3: movements during our hot and season than anything else. We

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Speaker 3: work hard to ensure that we have food throughout hunting season,

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Speaker 3: well throughout the whole year. But you know, where I live,

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Speaker 3: it's mountainous in most of that those frosts were elevation related.

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Speaker 3: So what that means is some of our neighbors had

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Speaker 3: as and we didn't. So it's not like deer we're

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Speaker 3: going to die. It's just man, with those acorns are

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Speaker 3: hiding the ground, they just moved off of us to

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Speaker 3: feed on them, you know, pretty close by. Two of

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Speaker 3: our neighbors had exceptional deer seasons. Uh, three of our

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Speaker 3: neighbors that all touch us, we're kind of like us

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Speaker 3: and just didn't have acorns and didn't see as much.

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Speaker 3: But uh, and one of our neighbors stopped. They also

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Speaker 3: manage a lot of habitat. They do a really good

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Speaker 3: job with that. Said Kip, I don't know where all

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Speaker 3: these bucks have come from, but we have never seen

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Speaker 3: this many bucks in my life.

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Speaker 4: And I'm thinking, I know exactly what I think, because

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's they join us, and so it literally,

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Speaker 4: you know, you know how good deer are just finding

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Speaker 4: where the best food is, you know, within there.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's not like these deer are leaving and

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Speaker 3: going miles. You know, they're just shifting a little bit.

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Speaker 3: So so anyway, no, deer aren't going to die. And

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Speaker 3: I fully expect, you know, us to have a really

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Speaker 3: good year this coming year, so hopefully we'll we won't

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Speaker 3: have any of these late from us, we may be

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Speaker 3: able to take advantage of some of the mass that

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Speaker 3: we have. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Man, it's funny how it can be so on and

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Speaker 2: off hot and cold year to year, little little changes

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Speaker 2: in habitat weather, it can it can really change the

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Speaker 2: experience you have when you're on a you know, a

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Speaker 2: relatively small area. It's kind of like during the rut

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Speaker 2: right every year, people like to say, ah, the rut

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Speaker 2: was late this year, or the rut we must have

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Speaker 2: missed the rut, we didn't see it. There's always folks

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Speaker 2: that are making these big claims based on what they

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Speaker 2: saw just on their eighty acres or one hundred acres

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Speaker 2: or twenty acres. But it's so it's so hard to

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Speaker 2: miss the big picture when you know it might have

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Speaker 2: been dead for you this week on you're eighty, but

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Speaker 2: then like you just said, you know, five hundred acres

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Speaker 2: over the other side, they're just on fire. It's it's

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Speaker 2: very hard to see that when your own experience is

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Speaker 2: so different.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I tell people, you know, we we love to

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Speaker 3: we as hunters complain about our state wildlife agencies and this,

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Speaker 3: and then you know what I tell them, Hey, you know,

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Speaker 3: like they manage deer at the wildlife management unit level.

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Speaker 3: We don't hunt that level, you know, we hunt at

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Speaker 3: the property level. So you know, in any given management

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Speaker 3: you'll have areas where there are a very few deer,

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Speaker 3: way too many deer, and everything in between. So you

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Speaker 3: are exactly right. We like to think of the exact

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Speaker 3: situation we're having is what all hunters have, and that

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Speaker 3: that's just not the case at all. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: managing habitat and managing hunting pressure help us, you know,

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Speaker 3: put the odds in our favor that we will continue

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Speaker 3: to have really good hunting. And you know, in most

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Speaker 3: cases that works out. You know, sometimes with extreme events

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Speaker 3: that doesn't. But I'll always want to err on the

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Speaker 3: side of that, and you know, continue to do habitat

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Speaker 3: work because I know, nine times out of ten, that's

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Speaker 3: definitely gonna help us see more deer and as long

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Speaker 3: as we're passing younger bucks older bucks as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So this this idea of trying to look at

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Speaker 2: the bigger picture and recognizing that what you are seeing

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Speaker 2: in isolation in your back forty or in your county

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Speaker 2: or whatever, that might not be the case at the

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Speaker 2: state level or the nation level. I think that probably

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Speaker 2: speaks to a bit of the purpose behind the Deer

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Speaker 2: Report that you guys put together. Right, What are you

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Speaker 2: guys trying to achieve with this every year? I mean,

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Speaker 2: it makes for great talking points for us to have

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Speaker 2: a podcast once every twelve months. But when you guys

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Speaker 2: sit down and put this information on paper and send

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Speaker 2: this out to the world, what are you really hoping

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Speaker 2: comes from it?

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Speaker 3: Well? I think strictly education, and we provide information that

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Speaker 3: helps hunters see what's going on in their area, what's

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Speaker 3: going on in their state, how that compares to their

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Speaker 3: neighbors and other regions. It helps natural resource professionals with

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Speaker 3: the same because many of the issues that somebody in

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Speaker 3: Michigan is dealing with. It helps your dear biologist to

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Speaker 3: be able to take a look at a map and say, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know what Pennsylvania's dealing with the same thing, or

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Speaker 3: Iowa is, or oh wow, Mississippi does this way different. Really, so,

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Speaker 3: you know, the audience are or is deer hunters, but

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Speaker 3: it's also just dear enthusiasts, deer managers, the media, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: So it's most helpful if we can understand what's going

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Speaker 3: on outside of just our area that we hunt, and

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Speaker 3: then also kind of what's going on around the country.

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Speaker 3: You know, there may be somebody else that's with a

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Speaker 3: similar issue that has a great answer for where you are.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, that's the idea of it. Let's collect the

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Speaker 3: information that we can and then put it all together

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Speaker 3: and then be able to share that. In some of

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Speaker 3: those chapters, you know, we provide our analysis of oh

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Speaker 3: this is good or this is bad. Some of them

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Speaker 3: we just put it all together and share like, hey, here,

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Speaker 3: here's a look at what's actually out there. So I

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Speaker 3: think hunters are more engaged than ever before, and that's

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Speaker 3: a really good thing. And you know, we've been doing

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Speaker 3: this since two thousand and nine now, and I really

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Speaker 3: appreciate hearing back from the State Wilife Agency, dear biologist,

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Speaker 3: how helpful it is to them too, because they can

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Speaker 3: see how you know, take drones for example, you know,

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Speaker 3: drone is a big issue today. So we have a

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Speaker 3: chapter this year looking at where are they legal? Where

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Speaker 3: can you use them for deer recovery? Where can you not?

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Speaker 3: And so we get questions not only from hunters but

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Speaker 3: from state wilife agencies about that as well. So hopefully

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Speaker 3: it's an educational thing that can help you know, a

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Speaker 3: whole suite of people who are interested in deer.

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Speaker 2: Yes. So if you had, you know, after going through

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Speaker 2: all of this data from across the different states, from

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Speaker 2: the surveys you've collected from all of these different agencies,

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Speaker 2: if there was one headline that you wanted deer hunters

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Speaker 2: in America to take away from this, If there's one

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Speaker 2: important takeaway from the twenty twenty twenty four still get

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Speaker 2: my years mixed up? In the twenty twenty four Deer Report,

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Speaker 2: What's that single most important thing that we walk away

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Speaker 2: from this year's from.

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Speaker 3: We have historically high buck harvest rates right now with

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Speaker 3: the oldest age truck sure we've ever shot, which is unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to say that is my number one thing, though,

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Speaker 3: because we have been edging toward that the last few

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Speaker 3: years and sharing that information. So we're in the golden

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Speaker 3: age of deer hunting right now. However, my number one

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Speaker 3: takeaway from this, which is shocking to a lot of hunters.

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Speaker 3: It is really shocking to non hunters, and it's maybe

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Speaker 3: less shocking to deer managers, but pretty pretty impactful there

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Speaker 3: as well, is that less than half of all the

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Speaker 3: hunters that go to a field each year shoot a deer.

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Speaker 3: Less than half, you know, think about it. Michigan, you

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Speaker 3: have a two buck limit, you can kill multiple analysts deer. Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 3: I have a one buck limit, but I can kill

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Speaker 3: multiple analysts deer. You know, some states you have a

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Speaker 3: multi buck limit and multiple ant like Georgia you can

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Speaker 3: kill ten dose with your tag. So we think hunters

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Speaker 3: non hunters alike. Man, we are just laying deer out.

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Speaker 3: The reality it is, oh Mark, less than half of

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Speaker 3: all the hunters that go deer hunting every year are

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Speaker 3: going to shoot a deer, and only a small number

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Speaker 3: shoot more than one. I know you shot a deer.

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Speaker 3: You're in the minority. I know you shot more than

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Speaker 3: one deer this year. You are in the real minority

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Speaker 3: of hunters. People who are avid like you and me

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Speaker 3: and a lot of your listeners. We look at like, man,

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Speaker 3: everybody's killing deer. That's not true. Less than half the

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Speaker 3: hunter shoot a deer. I think that's pretty amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty eye opening. But what's the what's the

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Speaker 2: what do we do with that information? Like, what's the

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Speaker 2: what's the action item? Or why does that matter? I

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Speaker 2: guess it's it's interesting. But by in us recognizing like,

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Speaker 2: oh wow, most hunters aren't killing deer, what does that

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Speaker 2: mean for us as hunters or managers moving forward? Does

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Speaker 2: that mean there's an education gap, like hey, people need

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Speaker 2: to learn how to be more successful? Or is this

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Speaker 2: a for a managing agency? Oh wow, even though you're

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Speaker 2: selling all these licenses, the minority of them are the

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Speaker 2: ones who can actually take enough action to manage the population.

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Speaker 2: So therefore we need to do something differently. What's the

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Speaker 2: next step now that we know this?

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Speaker 3: I think there's two parts of that. One is the

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Speaker 3: next step for wildlife agencies is that you know this

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Speaker 3: allows them to know how many antlelist tags they need

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Speaker 3: to issue to you know, to meet their harvest objectives,

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Speaker 3: or be able to share this information with hunters from

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Speaker 3: a strong educational campaign. Hey, you know, if they want

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Speaker 3: them to shoot more ant list deer, you know, Hey,

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Speaker 3: here's the reality. Here's why we need you to shoot

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Speaker 3: more because most people aren't shooting in it or from

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Speaker 3: a disease standpoint, if you're in a disease zone and

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Speaker 3: you want hunters to shoot more, it's important for them

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Speaker 3: to realize just by saying, hey, here's an extra tag,

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Speaker 3: that doesn't mean it's going to be you know, a

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Speaker 3: filled tag, or there's a deer. It helps them to

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Speaker 3: know what percentage of hunters are actually doing this, so

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Speaker 3: they can then do the best job to meet their

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Speaker 3: target harvest goals. Most states, not all of the most

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Speaker 3: states go into the deer season with, you know, an

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Speaker 3: idea of Okay, here's how many deer we want to

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Speaker 3: kill in these different different units. So knowing how many

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Speaker 3: hunters are in those units in the success rate of

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Speaker 3: those hunters allows them to do the best job meeting

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Speaker 3: their their harvest objective. That keeps them from over harvesting

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Speaker 3: or under harvesting deer herds. So that's very good from

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Speaker 3: the hunter end. This is important to know because you

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Speaker 3: know what I thought we were, you know, like eliminating

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Speaker 3: deer herds, or we're reducing deer herds to the point

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Speaker 3: where I didn't need to take an extra deer, or

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Speaker 3: I didn't need to shoot that dough. But you know,

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Speaker 3: I can hear my agency asking me to do this,

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Speaker 3: and if the reality is there's only a very small

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Speaker 3: percentage shooting multiple deer, okay, maybe I will you know,

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Speaker 3: help you manage these resources even more by shooting an

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Speaker 3: ant list deer or shooting an extra antlist deer. Maybe

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Speaker 3: I can then donate that to a needy family. So

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Speaker 3: it helps people be better stewards, you know, if they understand, hey,

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Speaker 3: here's exactly what's happening on the playing field.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point. So, so a few

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Speaker 2: thoughts on her questions around herd management as we're talking

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Speaker 2: about some of the things you mentioned there, you know,

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Speaker 2: managing the dough herd. You mentioned that our yearling harvest

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Speaker 2: is the lower low sever been and the three and

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Speaker 2: a half or older harvest is as high as it's

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Speaker 2: ever been. So, you know, for as you mentioned, for

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Speaker 2: several years now, we've been right around that mark. Kind

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Speaker 2: of feels like maybe we've found like an equilibrium. Possibly.

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Speaker 2: This has been a mission of the organization you're part of, formerly,

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Speaker 2: the Quality Deer Management Association, for years and years and

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Speaker 2: years was trying to get a more healthy age structure,

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Speaker 2: a healthier deer herd. When it comes to age structure nationally,

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Speaker 2: when you average it all out, it seems like we

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Speaker 2: have seen you know, leaps and bounds of growth there

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Speaker 2: and improvement. So the question is if if that is

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Speaker 2: a message that has gotten across and we're seeing strong,

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Speaker 2: strong progress there, especially in the southeast, but the better

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Speaker 2: in most places. It seems like, what's the next major

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Speaker 2: focus area for herd management that we hunters really need

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Speaker 2: to focus in on. We talked about this last year

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Speaker 2: in the year before a little bit, so it might

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Speaker 2: maybe your answer is going to be the same thing.

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Speaker 2: But I'm curious now here in twenty twenty four when

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Speaker 2: we're looking at, hey, how do we make sure we're

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Speaker 2: managing this herd appropriately? For a long time it was

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Speaker 2: past that young buck. What's the next thing? What's the yes?

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Speaker 3: And to that, it's in much of the United States

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Speaker 3: harvesting additional ant list deer. It is increasing the antlerus

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Speaker 3: harvest to appropriate levels to keep deer herds where well

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Speaker 3: we need them to be relative to the you know,

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Speaker 3: how much habitat there is. In some cases that means

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Speaker 3: really reducing the deer herd locally. In other cases it

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Speaker 3: might be just slightly reducing the deer. But the fact

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Speaker 3: that for many of the hunting seasons in the past decade,

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Speaker 3: we have shot more antler bucks than antlyst deer. That's

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Speaker 3: not a good thing. Like there are some states that, yes,

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Speaker 3: that's a recipe for success. New England comes to mind.

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Speaker 3: State's kind of on the fringe of good white tail habitat.

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Speaker 3: But for most states, that's a recipe for disaster. If

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Speaker 3: we're shooting more bucks than we are analysts dere So

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Speaker 3: that's really the next step. We have done a great

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Speaker 3: job as a hunting culture protecting those younger bucks. We

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Speaker 3: have the best age structure we've had in the last

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Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty years from the buck end, so phenomenal.

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Speaker 3: Now we can just manage that and go through that's

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Speaker 3: the healthiest for deer. It's obviously great hunting opportunities for us.

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Speaker 3: But now we need to look at again at the

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Speaker 3: ant list side and say, okay, let's make sure that

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Speaker 3: we're being good Steward's here and shooting enough ant list deer,

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Speaker 3: because if we lose that part of it, that all

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Speaker 3: that gain we have in bucket structure doesn't matter. We

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Speaker 3: need to be having the right number of deer for

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Speaker 3: what our habitats can support, and we do that by

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Speaker 3: having the appropriate analysts.

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Speaker 2: Harpers. Yeah, forgive me for the fact that we talk

380
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Speaker 2: about this a nauseam, But can you give us the

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Speaker 2: cliff notes rundown again on how balancing that side of

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Speaker 2: the herd helps the health and quality of the deer

383
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Speaker 2: and of hunting opportunities down the line too. So buy

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Speaker 2: more effectively managing our ant list deer population. So by

385
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Speaker 2: killing some more dose we're appropriate. Can you just give

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Speaker 2: us the quick rundown on the trickle down effects on

387
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Speaker 2: how that helps all these other things that we care about.

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Speaker 3: Sure, from a deer herd, everything starts by having the

389
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Speaker 3: right number of deer for what the habitat can support.

390
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Speaker 3: Deer can exist above that line, but they're being nutritionally deprived,

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Speaker 3: and nutritionally deprived, they're not able to express their body

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Speaker 3: growth potential, their antler growth potential, their fond production potential.

393
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Speaker 3: So there's a lot of hunters that hunt in herds

394
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Speaker 3: that are being nutritionally deprived simply because there's not enough

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Speaker 3: food for numbers of deer. Now, I will be the

396
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Speaker 3: first to say I like to see a lot of

397
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Speaker 3: deer when I go hunting. I get it. There's nothing

398
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 3: wrong with that. So hunters don't need to apologize for

399
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 3: that or try to get around it. When I'm not

400
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Speaker 3: seeing many deer, you know, I'm the first to begin itchy, like, hey,

401
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Speaker 3: something's not right. However, we want to have a deer

402
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 3: herd in balance with how much the habitat can support.

403
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Speaker 3: We do that by harvesting analysts deer to bring it down,

404
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,919
Speaker 3: but also increasing the quality of that habitat so it

405
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 3: can support more deer. But when we're in a skewed situation,

406
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 3: that's not good for deer because they're not getting enough

407
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Speaker 3: to eat, and since they can negatively impact that habitat,

408
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Speaker 3: they degrade the habitat, which means that five years from now,

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Speaker 3: well it can support even fewer deer, which is not

410
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Speaker 3: what we want. And it's also negatively impacting numerous other

411
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Speaker 3: wildlife species. So if you have too many deer, nothing

412
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Speaker 3: good happens. So let's correct that by shooting analysts deer.

413
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Speaker 3: Now we have a habitat that is healthy, can can

414
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Speaker 3: support more deer. It is also good for other wildlife species,

415
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Speaker 3: which long term is best for us as hunters. And

416
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Speaker 3: then once a deer herd is in balance, then they

417
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Speaker 3: get enough to eat and they get enough high quality food.

418
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Speaker 3: Da It would be like if you or me, you know,

419
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Speaker 3: We may have all the rice cakes we want through

420
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Speaker 3: the ear, you know, but we can eat the heck

421
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 3: out of rice cakes, you know, and we're not going

422
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: to be big and strong. It just doesn't happen. So hey,

423
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Speaker 3: let's get us enough to eat, but also get us

424
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Speaker 3: good stuff to eat. That's what we do by managing

425
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Speaker 3: habitat and making sure that there's not more deer than

426
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Speaker 3: the habitat can support. Some people think, man if I

427
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Speaker 3: shoot that dough, I'm hurting my future hunting. The reality

428
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 3: is that's not true. You are helping your future hunting

429
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 3: by making sure that deer are getting enough high quality

430
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 3: food to eat. So long term, it's way better for

431
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 3: us to make sure we achieve those appropriate antelis harvest goals.

432
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, I think there's another risk to not managing

433
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 2: our anteer list deer herd, which is something that was

434
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 2: alluded to in an email that my whole State of Michigan,

435
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 2: the hunting population in Michigan received last year from our

436
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 2: deer biologist, in which he pleaded with hunters in Michigan

437
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 2: to get more serious about trying to harvest antalysts deer,

438
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 2: especially in the southern two thirds of the state. Where

439
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 2: deer populations are largely out of control. He spoke to

440
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: the fact that our analyst harvest continues to decrease. We

441
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 2: are killing significantly more bucks than does now. And I

442
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 2: can't remember exactly how this is phrased, but there was

443
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: something in there along the lines of if we can't

444
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 2: write this ship, if we can't start managing our analysts

445
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 2: heard hunters as a tool for managing the deer population,

446
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 2: will be might be deprioritized. We might lose our job

447
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 2: to some degree, or we might be threatened to some

448
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 2: degree with the opportunity to do that work. By that,

449
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: I mean there are some places now that are looking

450
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 2: at other ways to manage their deer herds outside of

451
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 2: just hunters, because hunters haven't been able to put the

452
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 2: numbers down to where they need to be. Can you

453
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 2: speak to that a little bit? Is that a real risk?

454
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 2: Is that something that ten years down their line, twenty

455
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 2: years down the line, could have ramifications on our hunting

456
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 2: opportunities and our place within this whole management system.

457
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 3: Well, I think the answer is yes today because hunters

458
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 3: provide a free ecological service to society. You know, we

459
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 3: harvest deer, which is great. We help keep deer herds

460
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 3: in balance, which is great, you know, and we're not

461
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 3: charging society to do that. We buy the hunting licenses

462
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 3: and the gear in effect, you know, pay for our

463
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 3: wildlife management programs by pumping that money in. So we

464
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 3: are champions of society. We get to have that opportunity, though,

465
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: because society allows us to only about four percent of

466
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 3: the US population buys a hunting license. So we'd like

467
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 3: to think, yeah, I'm going to hunt, and I'll always

468
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 3: get to because it's my god given right, and I

469
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 3: wish that was true, but we don't get to do

470
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 3: anything in the United States because four percent of us

471
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,959
Speaker 3: want to do it. We get to hunt because about

472
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 3: eighty percent of the American public supports hunting. Even though

473
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 3: they don't hunt, they support legal, ethical, regulated hunting. So

474
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 3: because that part of society allows us to hunt, we

475
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 3: should do the best job we can be in the

476
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 3: best stewards possible and manage those hurts. So, as hunters,

477
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 3: when we choose to not shoot enough deer to keep

478
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 3: deer herds where they need to be and deer human

479
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 3: conflicts continue to rise, crop damage, forestry damage, deer vehicle accidents,

480
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 3: et cetera. Society will find another way to solve that problem,

481
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 3: and as hunters, we don't want them to find somebody else,

482
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 3: because you know, we want to continue to hunt. This

483
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that we're not going to be able to

484
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: continue hunt in the future. I'm not saying that, because

485
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 3: I believe we will. But right now we are by

486
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 3: far the primary way that all wait til herds are managed,

487
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 3: and I want to keep it that way. So if

488
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 3: we don't solve the problem, society will find somebody else

489
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 3: that helps hunters solve that problem or manage that deer herd,

490
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 3: and that that may be good for hunting, but there's

491
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,719
Speaker 3: a really good chance that hunters won't like that, so

492
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,479
Speaker 3: me included. So I want us to continue to do

493
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 3: the best we can and by projecting a good public image,

494
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 3: which today hunters in large part do, that's very good.

495
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 3: But we also need to make sure that we are

496
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 3: managing the deer herd appropriately, following what our state wilife

497
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 3: agents are asking us to do. The non hunting public

498
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 3: doesn't want to hear the agency say we need you

499
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 3: to shoot more deer and then hunters not do it.

500
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: So so I think what you asked about is a

501
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 3: very legitimate question. I'm not a fear mongerer by any means,

502
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 3: and I'm an optimist by nature, So I'm looking at

503
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 3: just what I know from the last thirty years of

504
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 3: managing deer and hunting deer. So yes, I think there's

505
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 3: a real chance in the future in places where we

506
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 3: just failed to do the job, that society will find

507
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 3: something else. We're seeing this in other countries right now,

508
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 3: so you know, it's not that big of a stretch

509
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: that you know, we can see the same thing here.

510
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we need to We need to get

511
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: ahead of that, right, We need to stay on the

512
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: front end of that and keep those conversations from having

513
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 2: to bubble up, which I think leads to a need

514
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: for folks to for that two percent or whatever the

515
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 2: number of people who kill multiple deer. So what we're

516
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: what that original data set points to, is that the

517
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 2: proportion of the hunting population that is actually currently making

518
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 2: a dent in the deer population enough to manage it.

519
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 2: We're talking a very small group of the hunting population.

520
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 2: So if there's ten million deer hunters in America, what

521
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: was the percentage that kills multiple deer seventeen percent?

522
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 3: Is that right, Yeah, less than one in five.

523
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: So seventeen. Yeah, So we've got a real small sliver

524
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: of the hunters who kill more than one deer. So

525
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: those of the people who currently right now are having

526
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 2: some kind of influence that within that group. For good reason,

527
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: there is for many hunters a a pretty darn close

528
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: one to one correlation between kill deer, eat deer right

529
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: or or close to it, or kill deer, give deer

530
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 2: to friend, or kill deer share with family at the

531
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 2: pot luck. But what we're seeing is that there are

532
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: more deer that need to be killed then I can

533
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: personally eat myself, right, And so that is where I

534
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 2: think we need to have these conversations about, Okay, how

535
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: do we a make sense of that and come and

536
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: make that kind of math add up for us, Hey,

537
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 2: if I'm going to kill more deer, how do I

538
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: feel okay about doing that in a way that I

539
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 2: don't feel like I'm wasting this meat or inappropriately taking

540
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: from the landscape and then making it possible for that

541
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: meat to go to good causes like these different hunters

542
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: feeding the hungry programs making it easier to share meat,

543
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: to donate meat. It seems like that's something that needs

544
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: to continue to grow, because it's actually getting harder to

545
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: donate meat here in southern Michigan, and my local meat

546
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: processors aren't taking it anymore. I think in states with

547
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: CWD issues, that's becoming more challenging. So I think that

548
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: is likely another one of these things that we'll have

549
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 2: to continue to address to make it easier to make

550
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: sure that we kill the number of deer they need

551
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: to be killed, and that that meat is going to

552
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: a good cause and that hunters feel good about doing

553
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: that work.

554
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 3: That's right, And I think that is the single largest

555
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 3: issue that we need to solve, is that venison donation opportunity.

556
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,479
Speaker 3: As you said, some states have it make it very easy,

557
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 3: some states not at all, And in most states there's

558
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 3: still a hunter has to pay for part of that.

559
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 3: And you know, like, you know what, I if I

560
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 3: can donate a deer and help somebody, if I have

561
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 3: to pay a little bit, Okay, I am into this,

562
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 3: you are into this. We may do that, but for

563
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 3: the average hunter who it might have, you know, it

564
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 3: might have been difficult to even get a hold of

565
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 3: that analyst tag or to pay for it, and then

566
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 3: to pay an extra twenty five to fifty or whatever

567
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 3: to have it donated. You know, that's a real barrier.

568
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 3: So I firmly believe that we have to make it

569
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 3: as easy as possible free to hunters. If you want

570
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 3: to donate this deer, it doesn't cost you a penny,

571
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 3: you know. Okay, you have to get it to the processor,

572
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 3: so you're going to pay some gas or diesel, but

573
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 3: you're not costing a penny. And I think that's where

574
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 3: society legislation can help by providing, you know, enough into

575
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 3: those programs. Right now, hunters fund them, which we fund

576
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 3: all this other stuff, you know, because we want to,

577
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 3: But the bill is bigger than what we can fund,

578
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 3: so I think we have to solve that. To provide

579
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: that avenue for those deer, that would be great. The

580
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 3: second part is we have to have much stronger public

581
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 3: education campaigns from our state wilife agencies encouraging deer, encouraging

582
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 3: deer hunters to shoot those extra analysts deer, but they

583
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,719
Speaker 3: have to explain why and how that will benefit them.

584
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 3: Some states have been really successful with strong campaigns. Most

585
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 3: just haven't got in enough, you know, for those two

586
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: be successful. But there are examples of where states have

587
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 3: done that and have moved the needle.

588
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: To your first point of that statement, that being there,

589
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: there likely needs to be some larger mechanism to help

590
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: pay for this, to fund these kinds of programs. Is

591
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 2: there any Is there any example of a state that's

592
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: found a way to do that well or be Is

593
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: there any progress towards this? Have there been people floating

594
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: bills to develop some kind of nationwide pot of money

595
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: for something like this or program. Is there anything to

596
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: point to and say, hey, let's get behind this, or

597
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: do we really literally need to build something from the

598
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: ground up.

599
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 3: I think we need to build something from the ground up,

600
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 3: but we at least have examples, the most recent being

601
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 3: the CWD Research and Management Act. I think there's been

602
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 3: so much push from the CWD and in the past

603
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 3: several years, and rightfully so, that there just hasn't been

604
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 3: a push from the venison donation. Most states, or maybe

605
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 3: all states, have some type of venison donation programs. Some

606
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 3: are way better than others. Farmers and Hunters Feeding the

607
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 3: Hungry that's based out of Maryland is one of the best.

608
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 3: My family has donated many deer through that program and

609
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: it is phenomenal, but even that program runs out of

610
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 3: money in Maryland each year, so there is a bigger

611
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 3: need for those. I'm not aware of a larger now

612
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 3: push with that, I don't get as involved with the

613
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 3: policy anymore so as possible there is I don't think

614
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 3: so though, Mark, But there's definitely an avenue for that

615
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 3: that we have seen with other things, So that would

616
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 3: be a great thing for hunters to get behind.

617
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, interestingly, there's a direct connection between CWD management

618
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: and this kind of program, right because if we could

619
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: better address the donation of deer, we might be able

620
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: to encourage a more appropriate management of deer herds, which

621
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: then helps you mitigate the spread of CWD by reducing

622
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: densities unnatural densities where it's a problem. So I almost

623
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: wonder if there might be a way to tap into

624
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: future CWD earmarked funds to fund a program like this,

625
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: because you know, we were talking this past summer, there

626
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 2: was a CWD someone I was at and one of

627
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 2: the single most important action items that's so simple but

628
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: would make such a big difference and continuing to address

629
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: the spread of CWD is just take another antelus deer

630
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: get folks to do this job. More effectively, more consistently.

631
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: If we can just do that, it serves as such

632
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 2: a speed bump for cwds spreading faster and further. So

633
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: this seems like it could be a very action oriented

634
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: way to actually make a difference on the whole CWT

635
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 2: challenge too.

636
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 3: You're right, they definitely are tied together, so there's a

637
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 3: relation between you know, those and then in those disease

638
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 3: zones it's even more important to shoot extra deer like that.

639
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 3: So yeah, there's a lot of tie ins. The state

640
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 3: of Maryland several years ago had a great way that

641
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 3: they actually dealt with this. Of course, Maryland is small,

642
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 3: there's only three counties, but they had drop boxes where

643
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 3: hunters could just take, you know, to these coolers put

644
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 3: your deer in. They ended up having all these deer

645
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 3: processed at their their state jail where they actually talk

646
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 3: the inmates to process me. So the inmates were learning

647
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 3: a ski bill. It was literally pennies to process these deer.

648
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 3: It was. It was a tremendous example of hey, let's

649
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 3: just sit down and figure out how to solve this.

650
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 3: The deer went to these coolers, agency staff picked them up,

651
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 3: they took them to the jail. The inmates actually processed

652
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 3: all of this. It all went out to the food banks.

653
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 3: It was a tremendous example of you know what, when

654
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 3: we were sitting down and work together, you know, we

655
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 3: can make things happen. So that was pretty cool how

656
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 3: they tackled that.

657
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a that's a great example of just simple

658
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 2: problem solving right there and finding solutions. So CWD. Since

659
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: that's since we're talking about it, we might as well

660
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 2: dive into that a little bit further. Can you give

661
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 2: us an update on where things stand in twenty twenty

662
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 2: four when it comes to chronic wasting, chronic wasting disease,

663
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: the spread of it, updates on research, anything new there

664
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,280
Speaker 2: that we need to know about.

665
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 3: Well, we're up to thirty one states now. The disease

666
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 3: continues to spread, finding it in new areas like Florida,

667
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 3: like Alabama, you know, some some states down in the southeast. Now. Fortunately,

668
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 3: hunters understand more about the disease than ever before, so

669
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 3: we're not seeing it as much as these scare tactics

670
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 3: and you know, oh, I'm going to quit hunting because

671
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: this unknown. There's enough information today to tell hunters, hey,

672
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 3: here's what we know about it. There's still a lot

673
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 3: we don't know, but you know what, we're finally seeing

674
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 3: some successes relative to to manage it. We know more

675
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 3: about how to predict where states will find it, which

676
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 3: is a good thing because as soon as we find it,

677
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 3: then the state can get a better idea of how

678
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 3: long has it likely been there? Is it pretty new?

679
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 3: Has it been a while? You know, what's the prevalence

680
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 3: rate within that deer herd? Because based on those things,

681
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 3: they attack it differently. So we at least know more

682
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 3: about predicting where we'll find it. We have better tools

683
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 3: today to test for it. Luckily, there's there's more equipment

684
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 3: available so that hunters can get that test back sooner.

685
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 3: Perfect example, we had a chapter in our annual report

686
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago on what's the turnaround time nationally?

687
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 3: It was like two to three weeks from when a

688
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 3: hunter would turn a CWT sample in until they would

689
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 3: get the results. That's a long time. We need to

690
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 3: do better than that.

691
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: This year, my.

692
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: Home state of Pennsylvania average turnaround time five days, so

693
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 3: that is a huge gain. You know what, if you're

694
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 3: processing your own you know you're probably hanging it for

695
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 3: that long anyway before you process that, so you have

696
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 3: your result back if it's at if you take it

697
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 3: to a processor within that time, you may not have

698
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 3: it back anyway before then. So anyway, the faster turnaround

699
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 3: time is way more convenient for hunters and allows you

700
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 3: to better handle that meat if it turns out to

701
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 3: be positive. So my take is, hey, let's continue to

702
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 3: push that envelope in the future so we get that

703
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 3: down even more. You know, we're not real close yet

704
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 3: to an infield test. It would be great if in

705
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: the field you could take a blood sample, take a

706
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 3: DNA sample, ear chip something and quickly know what it is.

707
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 3: We're working towards that. You know, that's not going to

708
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 3: happen in the next year or two. But the fact

709
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 3: that today the average turnaround time went from two to

710
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 3: three weeks to you know, less than a week in

711
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 3: the state, Hey, that's a big gain. And we know

712
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 3: that actually running the test is very quick. The time

713
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 3: is getting the sample from the drop boxes to the

714
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 3: lab and then back the hunters. So as now that

715
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 3: as we have better technology to test those, we can

716
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 3: increase the number of machines that do that testing and

717
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 3: increase some of the logistic you within these states to

718
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 3: get the samples quicker, which means we can we can

719
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 3: reduce that turnaround time even farther. So that's a that's

720
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 3: a huge gain for hunters. That's a big win for us.

721
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of things we don't know, but

722
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: we're finally starting to see some successes in the fight

723
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 3: and that's encouraging and that helps more hunters feel like

724
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 3: they can make a difference in get engaged.

725
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, the CWD Research and Management Act was signed into

726
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 2: law last January, I believe, so we've been in it

727
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 2: about twelve months now. Has there been anything has any

728
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: action come out of that yet? Have we seen any

729
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 2: important things be funded by that bill? Has anything been

730
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 2: made possible yet by that? Because it was it was

731
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: hailed as a big success at the beginning of last year.

732
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 2: Are we seeing anything from that yet? I guess is

733
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 2: what I'm getting.

734
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 3: To that has not this year because that puts seventy

735
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 3: million to management, thirty five for research and you know,

736
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 3: thirty five for monitoring and surveillance, which is a great

737
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,439
Speaker 3: well all of that money wasn't asked for last year.

738
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 3: States weren't didn't survive, So long story short, through our

739
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 3: policy work and other wildlife agencies or other NGOs and

740
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 3: wildlife agencies, we're able to get out to the states

741
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 3: and say, hey, you know there's money that we can

742
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 3: get for this. So that you can get for this

743
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 3: that's not being requested right now, let's increase you know,

744
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 3: all of these asks from a research into that because

745
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 3: the money will not be appropriated if the states aren't

746
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 3: effectively asking for all that, they're spending more than that,

747
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 3: you know, they're just taking it from other programs. So hey,

748
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 3: now we have a means to do this. So the

749
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 3: biggest thing this year was getting states in line to

750
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 3: be able to request money from that to make sure

751
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 3: that it's fully appropriated. So that is a big win

752
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 3: for the CWD fight. We have this. Now, let's get

753
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 3: states in line to be able to pull as much

754
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 3: as possible from that so that they can they don't

755
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 3: have to rob from all of their other programs to

756
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,919
Speaker 3: fund CWD management and research in their state.

757
00:40:53,520 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what about on the hunter side of things?

758
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 2: So where we stand today, I don't think things have changed,

759
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 2: but I'm curious if there's anything else new that we

760
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 2: have discovered over the last year that changes at all

761
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: the best practices. So what are the best practices KIP

762
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: for a deer hunter today in twenty twenty four. If

763
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: you want to be a good steward when it comes

764
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: to doing the right thing when it comes to CWD

765
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: as a deer hunter, what does that entail now? Given

766
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 2: any new information we have or not any information?

767
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 3: The best thing for a deer hunter and I firmly

768
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 3: believe that every one of us can engage in this

769
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 3: fight and help one know if the disease is in

770
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 3: the zone your hunting or not, whether that's at home

771
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 3: or your travel. And it's super simple to do that.

772
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 3: We work with on X They have a CWD layer

773
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 3: on there on the app, so regardless of where you

774
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 3: are in the United States, you can look and see

775
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 3: am I in a disease zone or not? It's a

776
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 3: free layer on there. There's no reason to not know

777
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 3: if you're in the zone or not. And if you are,

778
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 3: there's additional information that we reference back to all the

779
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 3: state wildlife agencies that show, hey, where are drop box locations?

780
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 3: Do I need to provide a sample or not? And

781
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 3: if so, where can I go? Do it? Are there?

782
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 3: You know, all of that stuff is right there. So

783
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 3: it's super easy for hunters so know if you're in

784
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 3: the zone or not, and if you are, don't move

785
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 3: the high risk parts of an animal out of that

786
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 3: zone if you shoot one. The high risk parts are eyes, brain, spleen, backbone.

787
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 3: Because one of the things that's bad about the disease

788
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 3: is if I come and hunt with you and we're

789
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 3: in a disease zone in Michigan, we both shoot a

790
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 3: deer and we'd take them home. If I bring those

791
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 3: high risk parts home and discard them on the landscape,

792
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 3: I literally could have been moving that disease to my area.

793
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 3: And another deer that come in contact with those remains,

794
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 3: or the soil around those remains, or the plants going

795
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 3: on the sore on them around those remains, they can

796
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 3: then contract the disease. So that is a way that's

797
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 3: very easy to move the disease, but it's something that

798
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 3: hunters very easily can fight. Don't move those high risk parts. That,

799
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 3: more than anything else, will help us. And you see

800
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 3: people you know with deer in their trucks and the

801
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 3: trailers are hauling them across state lines and and you're

802
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 3: seeing states get really serious about it. Kentucky and South

803
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 3: Carolina both busted hundreds big time fines for bringing deer

804
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 3: into their states. So it's it's not okay for a

805
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 3: hundred to say, well, I didn't know the rules. Well,

806
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 3: you know what, if you're a hunter, hey, let's be responsible.

807
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 3: Let's know the rules. And so if you're in if

808
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 3: you're hunting his zone, don't move those high risk parts.

809
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 3: Every hunter can do that mark and that is the

810
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 3: single best thing we can do to help keep or

811
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 3: help limit the spread of the disease.

812
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty simple but impactful. So, like you said, no

813
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 2: excuse not to know about that and to do the right.

814
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 3: Thing and tell our buddies. Yeah, tell our buddies, no,

815
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 3: don't let them. I was in Elk camp in Colorado

816
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 3: a few years ago. A guy there who happened to

817
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 3: be in camp with a shot and Elk was going

818
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 3: to take the head home to another state. And I said,

819
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 3: you are not leaving this camp with that head. You know,

820
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 3: boil it. And there was an opportunity we could boil it,

821
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 3: get the brain out, get the eyes out, whatever. And

822
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 3: he said, I'll have my taxi or mister home doing

823
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 3: I said, you're gonna do it here, like I will

824
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 3: not let you leave here. Like I didn't know that

825
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 3: guy before we got there, but I said, like, this

826
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 3: is a big deal. He ended up leaving a day early.

827
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 3: I was out hunting. I got back to camp that

828
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 3: night and he was gone. I was furious. All the

829
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 3: other guys at camp said, we told him, like, Kip

830
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 3: is not going to be happy. So the guy broke

831
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,879
Speaker 3: the rules, which is wrong, But I was more upset about,

832
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 3: you know what, you are risking all those deer you

833
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 3: know back in your home state where you're going, because

834
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 3: you're going to take it back there and dump it.

835
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 3: So so not only can we not move him, but

836
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 3: we need to make sure our hunt bodies know, hey,

837
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 3: this is important. Don't you move them either.

838
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. And peer

839
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 2: pressure is a whole lot more effective than a state

840
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 2: agency telling you what to do, right, you know, putting

841
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 2: the pressure in a positive way with your buddies, making

842
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 2: sure they know the right thing to do and give

843
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: them a little incentive to do so is probably going

844
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 2: to is going to help get the right thing done

845
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 2: more so than a pamphlet from the DNR. So yeah,

846
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 2: we got to do that. We got to be those people.

847
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 2: So speaking of pieces of paper, one of the issues

848
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 2: you highlighted which I found interesting in the report this

849
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 2: year was fire. You guys made a point to dive

850
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 2: into whether or not states have prescribed fire consoles, whether

851
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 2: they have prescribed excuse me, prescribed fire assistance available in

852
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 2: different states. And I'm curious, why was this something that

853
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 2: you guys wanted to shine a light on and talk

854
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: about and make sure folks were aware of. Why is

855
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,479
Speaker 2: fire and prescribed fire of importance to the deer hunting

856
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 2: world these days.

857
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 3: Prescribe fire is a tremendous habitat enhancement tool for wildlife,

858
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 3: for deer, but for a whole host of other wildlife species.

859
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 3: At the National Deer Association, we're big fans of using

860
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 3: prescribe fire where where folks are able, and we wanted

861
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: to get in a national snapshot on just how much

862
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 3: of this is being used and where is it being used,

863
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 3: because in areas where it's not, hey, maybe there's an

864
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 3: opportunity for us to help folks in those areas have

865
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 3: the ability to use more fire. I'm a member of

866
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 3: the Pennsylvania Prescribed Fire Council, so my part on that

867
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 3: is we do a lot of burning in Pennsylvania now

868
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 3: and public land. I want to see more of that

869
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 3: happen on private land. Private landowners want to use it,

870
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 3: so let's make it more available to them. So as

871
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 3: much as anything, we want to just highlight the value

872
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 3: of fire that people realize that, Hey, let's look at

873
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 3: where it's it's mostly being used. We knew it was

874
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 3: used a lot in the in the Southeast. I know

875
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 3: it's used a lot of the Midwest. I'll admit, you know,

876
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 3: I was a little surprised at where the numbers came out,

877
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,760
Speaker 3: and of course the numbers that agencies showed on because

878
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 3: we asked them, Hey, how many acres of areas are

879
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 3: burned us and prescribed fire under state annually. Some states

880
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 3: have a really good measure that some not as much.

881
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 3: But nationally, you know, it was just under nine million acres,

882
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 3: which is certainly a minimum estimate. It's probably a lot

883
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 3: more than that, but at least we have a baseline,

884
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 3: you know, of that nine million, six million of it

885
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 3: was in the Southeast, so and then almost all the

886
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 3: rest was in the Midwest. It was only you know,

887
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 3: a couple hundred thousand acres that we know of in

888
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 3: the Northeast, So the Midwest burns a bunch as well,

889
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 3: which was very cool. So lots of opportunity, you know,

890
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 3: to increase use of fire in the Northeast, which historically

891
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 3: fire was used tremendously throughout the Northeast. So Southeast does

892
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 3: a real good job using it and recording it. The

893
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 3: Midwest does a good job using it and recording it.

894
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 3: But we have lots of opportunities to gain in the northeast.

895
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 2: Would it be fair to say that this is something

896
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 2: that's important to get on folks radar more often though,

897
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 2: because we're seeing in so many places a homogenization of

898
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 2: habitat and a lot of places a maturing of forest,

899
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 2: especially in so many places where we're getting you know,

900
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 2: there's a lot of forest management issues, right, I know

901
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: you guys have tackled that and talked about that in

902
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 2: the past, and more and more we're losing early secessional habitat.

903
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 2: We're losing grasslands and prairies and all that kind of

904
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 2: habitat that's super important for deer, but especially important for

905
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 2: turkeys and upland birds and grassland birds, songbirds, pollinating insects,

906
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. All these critters that are

907
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 2: part of the ecosystem. They're increasingly across the nation losing

908
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 2: the kind of habitat that they need. Fire is one

909
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 2: of the greatest ways to put that back on the landscape, right, disturbance.

910
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 2: We need disturbance to create diversity, to create the kinds

911
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 2: of habitat that so many creatures need, and that's a

912
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 2: disappearing thing these days. Is part of the highlight here

913
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 2: being like, hey, this is important and it's not as

914
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 2: hard as you think it is because there is this

915
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 2: assistance available.

916
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 3: It is that and it's in many cases the least

917
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 3: expensive perak or option to to manage a habitat. And

918
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 3: so there are you know, there are things that we

919
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 3: can do on many of those different vegetation types you

920
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 3: know that may not simulate fire, but ways to manage them.

921
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 3: They're all more labor intensive and more expensive. So by

922
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 3: allowing people to know, hey, this is a tool and

923
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 3: this is a really good way to manage you know,

924
00:49:58,239 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 3: a lot of acres are get the most bang for

925
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 3: your buck relative to what you're managing. That is part

926
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 3: of it. But it's also important for folks to understand

927
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 3: maybe I'll never use fire, but if I see smoke

928
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 3: over on my neighbors. This is you know, this can

929
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 3: be a good thing. Culturally, we are in many places

930
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 3: in the North we are losing that connection to using fire.

931
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 3: And if you want to use a chainsaw or you

932
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 3: want to use a bush har or herbicides on your land,

933
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter what your neighbor thinks, You're going to

934
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 3: be able to do that. But if you want to

935
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 3: use fire on your land, it does matter what your

936
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 3: neighbor thinks because that smoke may go over on his

937
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 3: or her land. So the more people that understand the

938
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 3: benefits of fire, even if they're not going to use it,

939
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 3: the fact that they understand it and accept that it's

940
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 3: practiced in their area helps everybody be able to use

941
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 3: fire because in many cases, it's not the actual flame

942
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 3: or the fire that is either most limiting. It's the smoke.

943
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 3: You know, where is that smoke going? Is it going

944
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 3: to end up on a highway? So smoke management is

945
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 3: a huge part of being able to use that. You know,

946
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 3: smoke management is not an issue if you're using your

947
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 3: tractor or your chainsaw, or you know, you're side by side,

948
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 3: but it is at.

949
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 2: Least if you're using those things the right way.

950
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. It is with fire. So we

951
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 3: want people who may not even use it to understand

952
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 3: why it's used so that others can use it in

953
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 3: the area. So and that's a big part of that,

954
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 3: so big educational component.

955
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of education, you know, I think there are

956
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 2: probably a lot of people out there like me who

957
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,919
Speaker 2: know that fire on the landscape can be a good thing,

958
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 2: but are just maybe not confident in putting it out

959
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 2: there ourselves and doing it on our own right. Maybe

960
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 2: you should speak to a little bit more about, you know,

961
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 2: what these fire counsils and what types of programs are

962
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 2: available out there, because there are there are programs in

963
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 2: many states where you can get assistance. So if you're

964
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 2: like me and you're kind of a numbskull and you're like,

965
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: I don't know if I should be out there with

966
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 2: a torch, but you'd like to get it done and

967
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 2: have some help, there are ways to get that help, right,

968
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 2: can you can you speak to it a little bit?

969
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 3: Sure, and you're right, there's training available. Each state does

970
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 3: it a little differently. Some offer a lot more than others,

971
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 3: But just like using a tractor or a chainsaw or

972
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,760
Speaker 3: anything else. You can't just grab it and go without

973
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 3: understanding how to use it. You know, hey, let's be trained.

974
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 3: So we're using it safely for yourself and for others.

975
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 3: And in many places you can either get trained or

976
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 3: there are other people who are already trained that you

977
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 3: can have come on and help burn, Maybe come on

978
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 3: and put fire brakes in for you and actually do

979
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:44,720
Speaker 3: the burning, maybe provide some other assistance. So there's different

980
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 3: ways that you can have your area burn in different states. Pennsylvania,

981
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 3: for example, landowners, you're allowed to burn. As a landowner,

982
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,280
Speaker 3: they can't tell me I can't burn. But the problem

983
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 3: is if I lose the fire on my neighbors are

984
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 3: burned something up, I am in a lot of trouble

985
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 3: because there's no liability protection for me. So most states

986
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 3: have a training program where you can get your prescribed

987
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 3: burner certification, which means you have been trained in the

988
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 3: safe use of fire so that you can then pull

989
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 3: a burn permit when the conditions are appropriate to burn.

990
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 3: So that provides you some protection. So what I tell

991
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 3: people is the first understand hey, this can be really

992
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 3: good for for deer, turkey, upland birds, songbirds, et cetera.

993
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 3: So if you want to learn how to do it,

994
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 3: that's great, let's help you find the resources. If not,

995
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 3: if you just want somebody else to come out and burn,

996
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 3: hey there's there's you know, consultants that do that. There's

997
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 3: state and federal agencies that can help you with that.

998
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 3: You know, in most places there is a way that

999
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 3: you can get somebody there to help you burn, whether

1000
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 3: you do it or not. So there's different options with that.

1001
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 3: But yeah, you're not You're absolutely not just going out

1002
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 3: in light matches and start because you know that that

1003
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:03,959
Speaker 3: obviously can be extremely dangerous fire, particularly wildfires. We see

1004
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 3: the effects on TV all the time of how bad

1005
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 3: they are. I'll say, you like the conditions, the environmental conditions, humidity, fuel, moisture,

1006
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 3: all of that, you would never use prescribed fire in

1007
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 3: any of those environmental conditions. So the whole idea of

1008
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 3: prescribed fires, you are using it under a prescription of

1009
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 3: certain wind speed, certain wind direction, certain humidity level, all

1010
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 3: of this to put it in as safe in an

1011
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 3: area as possible. In in an area where you have

1012
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 3: fire breaks, which is an area around where you want

1013
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 3: to burn that you have removed the fuel, maybe it's

1014
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 3: disc fire breaks, maybe it's a creek, there's different things,

1015
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,760
Speaker 3: but it's the very prescribed use of fire under very

1016
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 3: specific environmental conditions that allow that to be safe the

1017
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 3: vast majority of the time. Those are the type of

1018
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 3: things you get trained to do so that you use

1019
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 3: it appropriately.

1020
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and is it for the states that have a

1021
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: prescribed fire council? Is that the entity to reach out

1022
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 2: to first? If you're looking for some kind of assistance

1023
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 2: or where would you recommend somebody go to figure out

1024
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 2: what kind of helps available?

1025
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 3: The prescribe for our council is a perfect place to

1026
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 3: start with. You can also go to your state's state

1027
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 3: Wildlife agency or state forestry agency. For example, in Pennsylvania,

1028
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 3: the Bureau of Forestry oversees all the fire permits in

1029
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 3: that so, but a prescribe for our council would be

1030
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 3: able to direct you there immediately if it was someplace

1031
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 3: other than them. Our report has all the states that

1032
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 3: have those councils, so if you see that, it's very

1033
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 3: easy to then search online and find them. But you

1034
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 3: can always go to your state wildlife agency as well.

1035
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 3: They would be able to guide you to the appropriate agency.

1036
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I want to take another hard pivot

1037
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 2: to another topic that you guys focus on in the

1038
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 2: report and that I think has been showing up in

1039
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 2: the news and on our on our radar more and

1040
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: more often here, especially this past twelve months or so,

1041
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:12,919
Speaker 2: and that is the impact of the changing composition of

1042
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: fish and game commissions across the nation. So the folks

1043
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 2: who are helping manage wildlife policy and management in the States,

1044
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,359
Speaker 2: how that's how those people are getting those jobs, what

1045
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 2: that's doing, how that's changing. And then I think a

1046
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 2: kind of a cousin of this would be ballot box biology,

1047
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 2: which is where we are seeing wildlife management decisions being

1048
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 2: made into ballot initiatives in which the general public is

1049
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 2: then voting on them. And both of these things I

1050
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 2: think are are are married together or they're they're adjacent,

1051
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 2: and I think they represent, you know, some some real

1052
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 2: risk when it comes to wildlife management and hunting in America.

1053
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 2: Can you give me your perspective on a why did

1054
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 2: you want to focus on this in the in the

1055
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 2: report and be you know, what do we need to understand,

1056
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 2: what do we need to be watching for in the

1057
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 2: future to make sure this is something that's that's a

1058
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 2: positive and not a negative.

1059
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 3: Yep. Sure, And you know, let me say one more

1060
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 3: thing about fire first. I'm not should have mentioned earlier.

1061
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 3: I'm coming to your state this summer to get to

1062
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 3: do some of that and a place near and dear

1063
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 3: to your heart. We actually have a learn and burn

1064
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 3: that we're going to do on the Back forty this summer.

1065
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,959
Speaker 3: We did one on my place in Pennsylvania. Two years ago,

1066
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 3: we did one in a different place in Pennsylvania's pasture,

1067
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 3: a learning burn where we people can come in, get

1068
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 3: some instruction and actually be on a fire and watch

1069
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 3: what happened. So this is part of the educational part.

1070
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 3: You know, Hey, let's let's show people you don't need

1071
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 3: to be afraid of this. This is you know, the

1072
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 3: ways that we do it. And so yeah, we picked

1073
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 3: Michigan and the Back Forty specifically to do some of that.

1074
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 3: So I look forward to being there this summer. So

1075
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 3: that'll be awesome.

1076
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 2: That'll be awesome, all right.

1077
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 3: So as far as the Fishing Game Council, how they're

1078
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 3: made up, we are heavily involved in wildlife policy because

1079
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 3: we want to make sure that we are fighting as

1080
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 3: hard as possible for deer hunters rights, and there are

1081
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 3: more stakeholders today involved with policy than ever before. Many

1082
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 3: of them don't have hunters best interest in mind, So

1083
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 3: we are involved in that arena a lot. Most deer

1084
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 3: hunters aren't even aware of the National Deer Association of

1085
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 3: the fact that we do this, but we fight for

1086
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 3: all deer hunters rights. It helps us to understand exactly

1087
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 3: the playing fields in all these different states, whether we're

1088
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 3: involved at the federal level or the state level. So

1089
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 3: in this case, we ask this question because we get

1090
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 3: involved in a lot of different state eight wilife agencies

1091
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 3: with this. So we want to know, okay, what is

1092
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 3: the actual composition of that commission because we work with

1093
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 3: those commissions in your state the NRC and my state

1094
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 3: the Board of Commissioners. So it helps to know, okay,

1095
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 3: who are those people sitting there, where they appointed there

1096
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 3: politically or not, or where they elected Because as a

1097
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 3: you know, as a journalist, as a writer, you know

1098
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 3: more than anybody else, you have to know your audience.

1099
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 3: You have to understand your audience whether you're writing, speaking,

1100
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 3: or whatever to be most impactful, same thing in policy.

1101
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 3: So we did this so that we have a better

1102
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 3: understanding of who are those board of commissioners and those

1103
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 3: commissions are those people there you know, are they made

1104
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 3: up of just elected officials that don't really care or

1105
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 3: you know, do they have a you know, a natural

1106
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 3: resource interest? So anyway, that's where that came from. To

1107
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 3: help us better understand what the audience is as we work,

1108
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 3: but then also to help deer hunters in any given

1109
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 3: state understand who is sitting there representing them.

1110
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 2: So that said, that helps me understand the why can

1111
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 2: you can you give me maybe your own perspective, your

1112
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 2: personal take, or if you think the National Dear Association

1113
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 2: has a larger angle on this? Just just where what

1114
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 2: am I trying to say here? What do we need

1115
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 2: to be thinking about or how do we need to

1116
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 2: address the possible risk of new stakeholders on these commissions

1117
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 2: with anti hunting agendas influencing the management of wildlife in

1118
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 2: our states? Do we have any ability to address that

1119
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 2: mitigate that change that This is something that seems to

1120
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 2: be coming up more and more often and seems like

1121
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 2: something we probably need to be not just aware of,

1122
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 2: but also armed to address.

1123
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I'm a fan of having a broad range

1124
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 3: of you know, those commissions. From a stakeholder standpoint, some

1125
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 3: get very nervous if every one of them there isn't

1126
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 3: an avid hunter. I think that there's enough influence just

1127
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 3: legislatively in any state that even if you have a

1128
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 3: stacked commissioner all hunters, you know, you're naive to think

1129
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 3: there's still not political influence impacting what happens. So I

1130
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 3: think it's good for us to have a wider range

1131
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 3: of people there, because deer impact a lot of people.

1132
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 3: In the wider the range of stakeholders we have sitting

1133
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 3: at the table, I firmly believe the better job we

1134
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 3: can do managing those resources. However, I get real nervous.

1135
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 3: You know when when those people are put on their

1136
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 3: you know, whether it's an anti hunter or you know,

1137
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 3: an avid hunter, when they are just politically selected, Boom,

1138
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 3: you're sitting there and suddenly you have a lot of

1139
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 3: influence over what that state wildlife agency does. Love them

1140
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 3: or hate them. State wilife agencies are full of professionals

1141
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 3: who have dedicated their life to wildlife management. I think

1142
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 3: it's good that you have a board of people that

1143
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,439
Speaker 3: kind of oversee what they do. But some of those

1144
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 3: boards are phenomenal in that they're taking direction from the agency,

1145
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 3: not just the biologists, the marketers, you know, there are

1146
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 3: three people, all of that and putting all that together.

1147
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 3: Where we run into real problems is where we have

1148
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 3: hand selected politically people sitting there with a very different

1149
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 3: agenda that suddenly have a huge opportunity to influence what

1150
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 3: all of those professionals have done and just unilaterally be like, Okay,

1151
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 3: we have all of this work. Nope, I'm picking over here.

1152
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 3: That's where I think we have the greatest risk. And

1153
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,919
Speaker 3: we've seen examples of that increasingly over the past five

1154
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 3: to ten years. So I have real problems with that,

1155
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 3: and not only impacts what goes on with that state.

1156
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 3: It impacts I mean this year, but it impacts in

1157
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 3: the future because we see burnout from state wildlife agencies

1158
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 3: that Hey, our folks are professionals, we're doing the studies,

1159
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 3: we're analyzing the data, we're providing all this. Now I'm

1160
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 3: picking here, well do this again, and suddenly you get

1161
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 3: people like, you know what, it doesn't matter that I

1162
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 3: poured my blood, sweat and tears into this if it

1163
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 3: never matters. So I think there's a real risk in

1164
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 3: you know, not just the decision today, but you know,

1165
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 3: the decisions of you know, the people to go into

1166
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 3: the wildlife profession and work for those agencies five, ten,

1167
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 3: twenty years down the road. I'll say this. When I

1168
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 3: came out of school or when I was in school,

1169
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 3: all I wanted to do was to be a state

1170
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 3: wildlife agency dear biologist. I became that, and you know,

1171
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 3: within six years of state wilife agency work, realized this

1172
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 3: is not at all what I thought this was going

1173
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 3: to be. Like they didn't talk about all the political

1174
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 3: influence and all that, and I think you have to

1175
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 3: have some of that, but it was way more than

1176
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 3: I had was led to believe. And it's only gotten

1177
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 3: worse in the last twenty years. So you were starting

1178
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 3: to see the best students coming out of wildlife programs

1179
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 3: today with zero interest going into state wildlife management. And

1180
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 3: I think that's a problem, and it's influenced by political

1181
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 3: selection of some of these commissioners.

1182
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 2: Okay, so what's the solution to that? What can we do,

1183
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 2: if anything, if we have a commission like that that

1184
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 2: has political appointees that seem to arbitrarily unilaterally taking actions

1185
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 2: that do not align with the best science or recommendations

1186
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 2: from the agency. Do we have any influence to change that?

1187
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 3: We do? In some places yes, and some know. And

1188
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 3: the reason is it's not only political appointees on these commissions.

1189
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 3: Some of it is the executive director of the state

1190
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 3: wilife agencies, and he or she can directly influence what

1191
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 3: the staff does. There are some good examples of where

1192
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 3: that person is not politically appointed. So there's I think

1193
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 3: there's a better opportunity to use the good science that

1194
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 3: that agency does, because if you're not politically appointed, there's

1195
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 3: less reason for you to have those political ties, you know,

1196
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 3: to make sure that, oh yeah, I get to keep

1197
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 3: my job next year, year the year after. So I

1198
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 3: don't work in the political arena, certainly not nearly as

1199
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 3: much as our director of policy does. But I have

1200
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 3: been in it enough to see, boys, you know, there

1201
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 3: can be some serious problems. I'm not naive Mark and

1202
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 3: to think that, hey, there's a magical solution to all

1203
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 3: of this, But I have seen enough problems with some

1204
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 3: of that to make me realize that Hunters, we need

1205
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 3: to be very aware of this, and we need to

1206
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 3: be engaged. It doesn't do us any good to just

1207
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 3: not pay attention or put our head in the sand.

1208
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 3: I think that's when it's the worst four hunters. So

1209
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 3: understanding what's going on always helps, and you know, when

1210
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 3: there's an opportunity to make our voice heard, and we

1211
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 3: do this. All the conservation organizations, you know, through their

1212
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 3: political or through their policy work, you know, have an

1213
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 3: opportunity to let their members know, hey, this is a

1214
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 3: bad deal for you. You know, if you want to

1215
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 3: share your opinion, here's how you do it. We just

1216
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 3: need more hunters to take advantage of that today than before,

1217
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 3: because you know that political swing works both ways. You know,

1218
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 3: it's not just a one way street. If they're hearing

1219
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 3: from a lot of sportsmen and women, you know that

1220
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 3: they're upset about something. Well, that gets noticed at higher

1221
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 3: levels as well.

1222
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the kissing cousin of this kind of thing

1223
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 2: is the ballot box initiatives and wildlife management decisions being

1224
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 2: placed on ballot initiatives to the general public votes on.

1225
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 2: We've seen this most commonly, it seems, with predator related issues.

1226
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 2: But regardless of what you think about predator management, I

1227
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:35,439
Speaker 2: want to speak to the larger issue here of these

1228
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 2: types of wildlife management decisions being taken out of the

1229
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 2: hands of the managing agencies, out of the hands of

1230
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 2: the folks working on the ground that have the science,

1231
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 2: instead putting the decision on you, me, any random person

1232
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 2: out there deciding whether or not we should reintroduce a

1233
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 2: species or outlaw a type of hunting or a practice.

1234
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 2: All of these things now are showing up ons and

1235
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 2: it seems to be some Western states here most recently.

1236
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 2: But can you speak to that risk of that kind

1237
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 2: of thing expanding and is there anything that we can

1238
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 2: do as hunters and anglers to to to mitigate that

1239
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 2: risk or are we just kind of at the whims

1240
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 2: now of where things are going.

1241
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 3: I am not a fan of ballot box, you know,

1242
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 3: wildlefe management stuff at all, as I'm sure you guessed,

1243
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 3: and mostly because wildlife never wins with that. A lot

1244
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 3: of Western states recently have gone those lines. We see that,

1245
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 3: a lot of the Northeast so too. Maine has been

1246
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 3: through that numerous times over the past two decades, you know,

1247
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 3: relative to trapping and bear hunting and some other things.

1248
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 3: So and the reason I say that wildlife doesn't win

1249
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 3: is because wildlife management is very complex. You can't share

1250
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 3: enough information for those ballot boxes for the average hunter.

1251
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, the average citizen to make an informed decision.

1252
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 3: But what it's very easy to do, because wildlife is

1253
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 3: so cool, is to show a cuddly picture of something

1254
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 3: and then use that emotion to greatly influence which way

1255
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 3: you want them to swing. We see this with predators,

1256
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 3: you know, with a baby mountain lion. It doesn't have

1257
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 3: to predators, though. I can show you a cute picture

1258
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 3: of a faon who's a prey item and swing people

1259
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 3: that way. I can show you a cute picture of

1260
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:21,599
Speaker 3: a possum mother possum holding you know, babies, and swing it.

1261
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 3: So we have the opportunity for emotion to override everything

1262
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 3: else when we get into these wildlife ballot box initiatives.

1263
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 3: And that's why I say wildlife loses, because we end

1264
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 3: up with emotion driving of the situation. And then once

1265
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 3: that's done, you're left with the public and the state

1266
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 3: Wilife agency to pick up the pieces. You know, it'd

1267
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 3: be like, we have a ballot box initiative. Do you

1268
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 3: want your local bank to give you everybody you know

1269
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 3: an extra hundred dollars today ballot box? Well, heck yeah,

1270
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 3: everybody vote yes. And afterwards they go to the bankers

1271
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 3: and say, Okay, this is what the public voted. Now

1272
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 3: you figure out how to make this work. You can't

1273
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 3: do that. But it's the same analogy when they take

1274
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 3: this to the wildlife age, Okay, now you figured out. Well,

1275
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 3: gizu know, we were arguing against us all along because

1276
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 3: this won't work regardless take you know, take the wolf

1277
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:14,479
Speaker 3: thing in Colorado. I don't care if you love wolves

1278
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 3: or don't love wolves. The ballot box is not the

1279
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 3: way to make that happen because it's never going to

1280
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,600
Speaker 3: be successful that way, regardless of which side of the

1281
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 3: issue you're on. So, yeah, I'm not a fan of.

1282
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1283
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 2: So the so that the next question is again kind

1284
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 2: of the same thing I said with the commissions. Do

1285
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 2: we have any leverage when it comes to this stuff

1286
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 2: other than just pushing back to our representatives within within

1287
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 2: the within the government stating the case like, hey, we

1288
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:47,799
Speaker 2: don't like these things.

1289
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 3: Well, I think that we certainly can and should let

1290
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 3: our represent representatives know, Hey, this is how I feel

1291
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 3: about this. You know you're representing me. But I think

1292
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 3: that our agencies also have an opportunity way before the

1293
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:05,440
Speaker 3: ballot part of it to have some very strong educational

1294
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:08,719
Speaker 3: campaigns out there about whatever species is. You know, those

1295
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 3: type of things can move the needle. That's one of

1296
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 3: the reasons this past year where the Southeastier Partnership where

1297
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 3: we did the you know, the documentary with wild Tail

1298
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:22,599
Speaker 3: America's Greatest conservation success story. That whole project was about

1299
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 3: showing the value of deer, not just to hunters, but

1300
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 3: mostly to non hunters. I don't care if you hunt

1301
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 3: or not. If you live in the east the southeastern US,

1302
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 3: you're impacted by deer, whether you hit them with a car,

1303
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 3: whether you see them in a field, whether you like

1304
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:39,639
Speaker 3: to feed birds. Deer are impacting those birds, and deer

1305
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:43,240
Speaker 3: hunters are funding that. So let's show the value of

1306
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 3: deer to people. We want hunters to be able to

1307
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:49,799
Speaker 3: speak more intelligent about them, but the non hunting public,

1308
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 3: we want them to know more. I think it's those

1309
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 3: type of efforts about these other species as well, in

1310
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:59,440
Speaker 3: advance of those ballot box whether it's wolves in Colorado

1311
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 3: or bears in Washington or whatever. I think those are

1312
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 3: the type of things where our agencies in this case

1313
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 3: it was a conglomeration of agencies, but state Wildlife agents

1314
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 3: as well, can do more from an educational campaign and

1315
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 3: not just a one time thing. You know, it has

1316
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 3: something has to be long term that you know, can

1317
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:23,800
Speaker 3: help influence public sentiment around what these issues are because

1318
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,720
Speaker 3: once it gets to the battot box, then emotion ends

1319
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 3: up taking over too much because the timeline is small.

1320
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:33,120
Speaker 3: We have to play the long game with making folks understand,

1321
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:35,759
Speaker 3: you know, why something is good for a wildlife species

1322
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 3: or not.

1323
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's no easy fix here, no easy answer,

1324
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 2: that's for certain, and that is so often the case

1325
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 2: when it comes to wildlife or deer in particular. So

1326
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 2: you've wrapped up the report, it's been out there in

1327
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 2: the world for a little while. Now when you close

1328
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:03,600
Speaker 2: your eyes goes at night with this information now on

1329
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:05,759
Speaker 2: hand or anything else that's going on in the world

1330
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 2: of white tails, kid, what is one trend or one

1331
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 2: issue at hand that is keeping you up at night

1332
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 2: and what is one thing that gives you hope for

1333
01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 2: the future.

1334
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 3: One thing that keeps me up at night is we

1335
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 3: go through so many revisions of this, I think, man,

1336
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,679
Speaker 3: I hope we found all the airs. There are literally,

1337
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:36,000
Speaker 3: you know, millions of numbers in here from forty eight

1338
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 3: different state wildlife agencies, and we go through a very

1339
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 3: rigorous process among our staff will review look count number.

1340
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 3: Then it all goes back to the state wildlife agencies

1341
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:47,439
Speaker 3: to review again and they make revisions like ooh, this

1342
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 3: wasn't So we do such an effort to minimize errors.

1343
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 3: But I know there, I'm sure there are still some

1344
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 3: in there, so it bothers me. You know that we

1345
01:12:57,040 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 3: have airs, so that definitely keeps me up. But as

1346
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 3: far as an an actual trend, CWD is, is there,

1347
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:09,120
Speaker 3: if not the top right near the top, just because

1348
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 3: it's such a big issue that we can't solve in

1349
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 3: one year, you know, we certainly look at it as

1350
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 3: one of the biggest things affecting the future, as do

1351
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:21,759
Speaker 3: the vast majority of wildlife professionals. There's certainly some folks

1352
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:23,679
Speaker 3: out there that say this is not a big deal

1353
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 3: or whatever, but you know, the vast majority, and I'm talking,

1354
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 3: you know, above ninety percent of all wildlife professionals see

1355
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 3: this as one of the biggest issues impact in the

1356
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 3: future of deer and deer hunting, So so that one

1357
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 3: definitely keeps me out thinking and wondering. For my part,

1358
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not a scientist that studies the epidemiology

1359
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:45,360
Speaker 3: or that. For my part, I think it was okay, like,

1360
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:48,759
Speaker 3: what can I do to help share some more information

1361
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 3: with hunters and what can we as an organization do

1362
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:54,559
Speaker 3: you know, to help hunters have a bigger piece of

1363
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:57,600
Speaker 3: this to you know, to help solve this. So that

1364
01:13:57,760 --> 01:13:59,760
Speaker 3: that's where I am on that. But the CWD mark,

1365
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:02,720
Speaker 3: even though I'm an optimist and we will solve this,

1366
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 3: I have no doubt that one definitely keeps me up.

1367
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then what gives you hope, what's got you

1368
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:12,519
Speaker 2: excited or feeling good about the future.

1369
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 3: To take a look at where we are today deer hunting.

1370
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:19,799
Speaker 3: Think about when your wildlife career started, or my wildlife

1371
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 3: career started, the makeup of the deer herd was so different,

1372
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 3: very skewed toward young bucks, very skewed toward bucks and

1373
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 3: not you know, I'm sorry, very skewed toward antlust deer

1374
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 3: and not enough bucks. Today that is very different. We

1375
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 3: said earlier, we have the best age structure on the

1376
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 3: bucks side that we've had in at least the last

1377
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 3: one hundred to one hundred and fifty years. Yeah, we

1378
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,760
Speaker 3: have some regulations from the state wildlife agencies that helped that,

1379
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:47,960
Speaker 3: But it has been an entire change in the hunting

1380
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:50,719
Speaker 3: culture to get there. I know it is one hundred

1381
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:53,400
Speaker 3: and eighty degrees for me from where I started hunting,

1382
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 3: you know, in the early eighties in Pennsylvania. I know

1383
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 3: it's very different for you in Michigan as well. Think

1384
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:01,759
Speaker 3: about where we were to where we are today. There

1385
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 3: that is a huge gain, like tremendous game. That gives

1386
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 3: me good hope that whether it's CWD or anything else, Hey,

1387
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:13,400
Speaker 3: hunters helped fix this. Hunters have helped fix almost everything

1388
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 3: that impacts deer, you know, for the last several hundred years.

1389
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 3: So that gives me hope that, you know what, We're

1390
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 3: going to be part of the solution again. We work

1391
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 3: closer with our state wilife agencies than ever before. We're

1392
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 3: more educated than ever before. There's more resources like your

1393
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 3: podcast than ever before to share good information and teach.

1394
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:33,640
Speaker 3: So think that I'm very hopeful about is you know

1395
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:37,720
Speaker 3: what I have seen tremendous gains for the good of

1396
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 3: deer hunting and deer management, and hunters were part of

1397
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:42,760
Speaker 3: that will be part of it again.

1398
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:46,840
Speaker 2: Here here I agree with you on that one Kim,

1399
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 2: So give me the plug for anyone listening. How can

1400
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 2: somebody get the twenty twenty four Deer Report for themselves

1401
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 2: and review the numbers and review There's a whole lot

1402
01:15:57,040 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 2: more on the report we didn't get to, so there's

1403
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 2: a lot to dig into if you're interested. So where

1404
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:03,839
Speaker 2: can they find that? How can they become a member

1405
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 2: of the National Dear Association and why should they do that?

1406
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:09,680
Speaker 3: They can get the report for free at our website,

1407
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 3: which is Dear Association dot com. They can go there

1408
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:17,160
Speaker 3: to our just click NDA Programs Deer Report, and then

1409
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 3: you can download this year's as well as every other years.

1410
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 3: They're all right there for free. We even have an

1411
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 3: interactive index there with them that you can search by

1412
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:29,000
Speaker 3: topic and you know and immediately go to whatever that

1413
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:31,599
Speaker 3: topic is in all of those years deer reports. So

1414
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 3: we try to make it easy as possible folks to

1415
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:37,760
Speaker 3: do that. To become a member, they can sign up

1416
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 3: right at our website. We have different membership levels. A

1417
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 3: great one is our Premium Member, which used to be

1418
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 3: what we called an annual member, but that gives them

1419
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:52,599
Speaker 3: access to all kinds of discounts for things that are

1420
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:56,800
Speaker 3: NBA sponsors or text optics on X. The list goes

1421
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 3: on and on, and you will get way more than

1422
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 3: monetary benefit from those places by the low membership fee there.

1423
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 3: So you can do that and have access to all

1424
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 3: of our stuff. If you say, you know what, I'm

1425
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 3: just not into to a paying membership. We have a

1426
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 3: free membership option that we started this past year that

1427
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:17,559
Speaker 3: we think is pretty novel and we're excited about. You

1428
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:20,240
Speaker 3: can join for free. Doesn't get you the all the

1429
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 3: discounts for all of the sponsors that we have, but

1430
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:26,120
Speaker 3: it at least gets you our weekly newsletter and so

1431
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:28,720
Speaker 3: that you can be aware of all the stuff that's

1432
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 3: going on in the dear world. So very simple way

1433
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 3: to stay connected without having to pay anything. If you're

1434
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:36,600
Speaker 3: on pay a little bit, you get way more benefits,

1435
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 3: you know, from those other places as well. So I

1436
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 3: like it that we're trying to appeal to a broader

1437
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:43,920
Speaker 3: range of deer hunters that you know, may have the

1438
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 3: means to join with an annual fee or not. So

1439
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 3: I think that's pretty cool. But they can do that

1440
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 3: all at Dear Association dot.

1441
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:54,960
Speaker 2: Com perfect well. I would certainly encourage anyone listening to

1442
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,720
Speaker 2: do that and to sign up for that premium membership.

1443
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:00,640
Speaker 2: If nothing else, you can look at that as a

1444
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 2: donation to a really important organization that has done tremendous

1445
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 2: things for our deer hunting opportunities over the years. And

1446
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:11,680
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan and appreciative of the work you

1447
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 2: guys have done, so that appreciation extends to you, specifically

1448
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:17,720
Speaker 2: to Kip. Thank you. Thank you as always for this

1449
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 2: conversation and for everything over the years. You've taught me

1450
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:26,320
Speaker 2: personally so much, and I appreciate that well, thank.

1451
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 3: You very much. Like that, I've certainly enjoyed our friendship

1452
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 3: over the years, and I learned a bunch from you

1453
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:34,720
Speaker 3: as well, and and certainly respect the audience that you have.

1454
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:37,640
Speaker 3: And you know how much good you do sharing information

1455
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 3: and getting it out there to folks. So you've had

1456
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:42,479
Speaker 3: a big impact. And so I'm glad to be here

1457
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 3: and maybe play a small part in some of the

1458
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,280
Speaker 3: information for at least the month of January.

1459
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 2: Agreed, Well, how about we do this twelve months from.

1460
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:52,519
Speaker 3: Now again, sounds good. I'm looking forward to it. So

1461
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:54,720
Speaker 3: thank you for the opportunity, Mark, and you have a

1462
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:55,360
Speaker 3: great day.

1463
01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 2: All right, And that is a wrap. I'll just echo

1464
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:03,040
Speaker 2: what Kip said. Head on over to Dearassociation dot com,

1465
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:06,639
Speaker 2: get a copy of the report, come a member, follow along.

1466
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:11,200
Speaker 2: They provide all sorts of great educational resources as well

1467
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:14,880
Speaker 2: as policy updates, action emails, different things that you can

1468
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 2: do to take action and help the future of deer

1469
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:21,400
Speaker 2: hunting in your state across the country, whether it be

1470
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 2: sending an email, making a phone call, showing up for

1471
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 2: a volunteer event. The NBA is coordinating a lot of

1472
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:29,320
Speaker 2: this stuff and it's great to be involved in that.

1473
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,960
Speaker 2: So thanks for tuning in, thanks for being a part

1474
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:36,240
Speaker 2: of this, and until next time, thank you and stay

1475
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 2: wired to hunt.